Military Review

Credit Mousetrap for Russian citizens

133
Credit Mousetrap for Russian citizens

One of the problems of society is the debt load on citizens. Many Russian families can no longer imagine their life without loans, moreover, we are talking about large loans (mortgages, car loans) and small loans (consumer loans, “paycheck”), including loans for loan repayments. The real "credit mousetrap."


Both large banks and microcredit organizations do business on this. The latter offer citizens to borrow at an astronomical percentage, which, given all conditions, was sometimes calculated in thousands of percent per annum. Now, it seems, a law has been adopted limiting the amount of payments on the loan, but microcredit organizations are ready to come up with new forms of enticing funds from the population.

The statistics on loans in Russia are as follows: in 2010, the total debt of individuals to banks amounted to 7% of GDP, today - about 16% of GDP.

On the one hand, this is significantly less than, for example, in the USA. But on the other hand, Russia does not have such an active printing press as in the United States, which could be used constantly.

Even adjusted for inflation in Russia, the increase in the debt load of citizens for less than 9 years amounted to 200 percent.

In his program "Prime Numbers" Oleg Komolov offers to deal with the problems of loans to individuals in our country. The author of the article notes that many Russians continue to expect a real increase in living standards and consider emerging economic stagnation a temporary phenomenon.

133 comments
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  1. rocket757
    rocket757 4 December 2019 11: 59
    +2
    One of the problems of society is the debt load on citizens.

    This problem moves ON THE PLANET, very quickly and confidently!
    1. tech3030
      tech3030 4 December 2019 12: 18
      +13
      Look what interest "Sberbank" takes in the Czech Republic and what it is from us, you will be very surprised. It is easier to rob Russians than others, everything is adjusted to this!
      1. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 4 December 2019 12: 33
        +4
        Look in what currency Sberka gives loans in the Czech Republic. And compare its volatility with the ruble.
        1. tech3030
          tech3030 4 December 2019 12: 41
          -4
          Sberbank Defender? This is something new.
          1. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 4 December 2019 12: 43
            -3
            Any bank has a lower interest on a foreign currency loan than a ruble loan. Reason: different currency volatility.
            1. iConst
              iConst 4 December 2019 13: 29
              +15
              Quote: AS Ivanov.
              Any bank has a lower interest on a foreign currency loan than a ruble loan. Reason: different currency volatility.

              Our banks have a currency in the "0" region. What is it like? For a ruble - ~ 25. The exception is the mortgage, but it was pushed through by the Cabinet on the urgent recommendation of Putin.

              That is, when banks take loans over the hill, albeit short, but still, according to the "junk" rating of the Russian economy (hello to American rating agencies!), Correct the percentage - ~ 4-5.
              Those. taking a conditional loan from its citizens - opening a deposit - and any bank still "twists" the deposit money - it gives them a shish, and the enemy slobber up to 5%.
              By rubles - Sberbank offers as much as 5,85% but from 5 (!) Million rubles.
              And he rumbles 25. Normal! Therefore, there’s nowhere to spit, so as not to get into the branch of a bank.

              Now turn on the logic - our ears buzzed that we have the ruble, and not the dollar, the main currency. Then where does volatility come from? It should not be! laughing

              This is how ... wink
              1. passerby
                passerby 4 December 2019 13: 55
                -5
                Well, after all, no one forces you to take a loan, you think it’s expensive - don’t take it, save it yourself. And then, foreign banks that work in Russia through their daughters, what are the other kinds of money bumping off than Sberbank offers loans? No, the rates are the same. Rates are a reflection of the risks borne by the lender.
                Quote: iConst
                Quote: AS Ivanov.
                Any bank has a lower interest on a foreign currency loan than a ruble loan. Reason: different currency volatility.

                Our banks have a currency in the "0" region. What is it like? For a ruble - ~ 25. The exception is the mortgage, but it was pushed through by the Cabinet on the urgent recommendation of Putin.

                That is, when banks take loans over the hill, albeit short, but still, according to the "junk" rating of the Russian economy (hello to American rating agencies!), Correct the percentage - ~ 4-5.
                Those. taking a conditional loan from its citizens - opening a deposit - and any bank still "twists" the deposit money - it gives them a shish, and the enemy slobber up to 5%.
                By rubles - Sberbank offers as much as 5,85% but from 5 (!) Million rubles.
                And he rumbles 25. Normal! Therefore, there’s nowhere to spit, so as not to get into the branch of a bank.

                Now turn on the logic - our ears buzzed that we have the ruble, and not the dollar, the main currency. Then where does volatility come from? It should not be! laughing

                This is how ... wink
                1. iConst
                  iConst 4 December 2019 14: 42
                  +8
                  Quote: bystander
                  Well, after all, no one forces you to take a loan, you think it’s expensive - don’t take it, save it yourself. And then, foreign banks that work in Russia through their daughters, what are the other kinds of money bumping off than Sberbank offers loans? No, the rates are the same. Rates are a reflection of the risks borne by the lender.

                  The points:
                  No one forcibly takes. Oh yeah!
                  Only I already have two friends who would like to have 3-4 children, but for this one needs a normal country house. He does not want to live in the city. But even with the sale of the current apartment, he could not pull a predatory speculative loan. More precisely, he does not want to pay 25 years with the risks of losing his job (and his wife will not work - he needs to graze the mob) and save 25 years on everything. How geyropeytsy do this - to sit in loans to the grave.

                  And the second needs a 5-room apartment. In order not to live on their heads. And the same song.
                  Therefore, both are pondering over the second.

                  And then the "patriotic" liberda, the slogans that you are broadcasting here, wringing their hands broadcasting how everything is not so with our demography - you see, they do not want to give birth.

                  With the opening of small business - the same song. All plans go to hell.
                  And the same liberd laments that our medium and small businesses are not growing. Lazy people around.

                  And the economy as a whole is stagnating, despite mega-projects. Indicator - all large chain stores have drastically reduced their product range and are expanding all non-food small things.
                  Why? And the momentum fell. Why's that?

                  So, you don’t want to, don’t you eat?

                  Indeed, if you were passing by ...
                  1. Sergey Valov
                    Sergey Valov 4 December 2019 14: 51
                    -13
                    “But for this one needs a normal country house”
                    ”And the second needs a 5-room apartment“
                    Do they need a yacht like Abramovich’s? Less need to watch TV and work more.
                    1. iConst
                      iConst 4 December 2019 15: 26
                      +7
                      Quote: Sergey Valov
                      Do they need a yacht like Abramovich’s? Less need to watch TV and work more.

                      Yacht is not needed. People are working fine.

                      And now in points:
                      Do you need a parents bedroom? - 1,
                      Living room, to celebrate the whole family holiday, friends, temporarily accommodate visitors - 2.

                      If there are four children, then most likely there will be heterosexual people, and in any case you cannot push four into the same room. - 3, 4.
                      A game room for so many children is needed - toys, sports equipment a little bit, and to hang out there and do homework (I note - formally in the bedroom!) So that students do not interfere with school. - 5.

                      Well, where is the fat?

                      This I say live a little more humanly. And not in short terms. Let the rooms be not super footage - but they are needed in precisely this quantity for the intended purpose.
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 10 December 2019 21: 08
                        0
                        Quote: iConst
                        This I say live a little more humanly. And not in short terms.
                        -Living in "bestial conditions" -6 people per 12 square meters, my grandmother and grandfather gave birth to 4 children. We have grown by 41 ...
                        and when they start to count-
                        Quote: iConst
                        Living room, to celebrate the whole family holiday, friends, temporarily accommodate visitors - 2.
                        - the line will not reach the children ... a maximum of a dog will be brought ...

                        And the credit has nothing to do with it - people have no desire and love for children. There is a frantic love for their beloved .... nothing more ....
                        Quote: iConst
                        he does not want to pay 25 years with the risks of losing a job (and the wife will not work - the horde needs to be grazed) and save 25 years on everything. How geyropeytsy do this - to sit in loans to the grave.

                        And even if you give him a dough now, interest-free, they will immediately appear: "the car (this is old / unfashionable), rest (you need to rest properly), the wife's chest will sag and the figure will deteriorate, and so on ...

                        Say, but even in the USSR, good apartments just didn’t fall from the sky, first you had to give birth and only then housing
                        And now capitalism, you want a country house with guestbook rooms - so not noah, but Pasha ...
                2. ccsr
                  ccsr 4 December 2019 19: 27
                  -2
                  Quote: bystander
                  Rates are a reflection of the risks borne by the lender.

                  Everything is not so simple here, because the bank gives a mortgage loan with mandatory insurance of the entire amount of debt, and it will be necessary to insure until the end of the entire payment. The amount of annual insurance decreases continuously as the principal is paid, but the advantage of insurance is that in the event of the death of the credited, the insurance company will fully repay the debt and your relatives will get housing without a bank burden.
                  In general, by and large, the lender practically does not bear risks - the policyholder takes risks in the first place.
                  1. passerby
                    passerby 6 December 2019 12: 00
                    -1
                    And will the insurance cover the risk of ruble devaluation? What about inflation? So you can predict the magnitude of inflation for 10-15 years for which a mortgage loan is given? You look at risks too narrowly.
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 6 December 2019 12: 37
                      +1
                      Quote: bystander
                      And will the insurance cover the risk of ruble devaluation? What about inflation?

                      Insurance is given for one year - this is how all insurance companies work. Annual inflation is laid down in the insurance contract itself - I recently studied such a contract and it says that the bank pays 10% over the principal amount of the debt, and the borrower is forced to do so in order to get a soft mortgage loan, otherwise the bank may refuse to lend .
                      Quote: bystander
                      So you can predict the magnitude of inflation for 10-15 years for which a mortgage loan is given? You look at risks too narrowly.

                      Any inflation is in favor of the borrower if the loan is taken in rubles, and not in currency, because all ruble payments are scheduled monthly for the entire loan term as an appendix to the Agreement .. Have you ever done such things yourself? I was forced to do this because I needed to help an employee, otherwise she could not gain a foothold in Moscow for many years, and she was poorly versed in all the intricacies of mortgages. And I learned a lot of things when I really came across this, which is why I think that now is a good time for mortgages for those who are still relatively young and have no prospects for housing.
            2. Altona
              Altona 4 December 2019 14: 01
              +10
              Quote: AS Ivanov.
              Any bank has a lower interest on a foreign currency loan than a ruble loan. Reason: different currency volatility.

              --------------------------
              What? Is it okay that our ruble is pegged to the dollar by law? That is, the ruble supply is equal to the exchange rate. And by the way, the currency risks are borne by the client himself, who took out a “currency loan” in the event of a collapse of the exchange rate. The bank gave "currency mortgages", knowing the procedures of the Central Bank to destroy the ruble every 5-10 years.
          2. Spartanez300
            Spartanez300 4 December 2019 12: 49
            +7
            Do you want to take it, do not take it, but it’s better not to take it. On this many have already been burned.
          3. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 4 December 2019 13: 09
            0
            this is not protection but an attempt to tell you that issuing a loan in a different currency affects the interest rate.
          4. bullss
            bullss 4 December 2019 14: 28
            +2
            What does the defender have to do with it? You just have to be objective. Take a foreign bank working with us and compare its credit policy here and here (for example: Raiffeisenbank), you will be very surprised.
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 4 December 2019 15: 36
              -2
              what will I be surprised? I know this bank and I won’t go to take out a loan there. they are driving so many risks into the final rate that it seems to you to be a sweetheart. what they advertise is lower than that of others at the exit it turns out more expensive.
          5. Tomich3
            Tomich3 4 December 2019 15: 07
            0
            Take a loan in Germany or the Czech Republic. Why are these stupid questions? There are other countries, money, other inflation. And interest on loans is different.
          6. Geo⁣
            Geo⁣ 4 December 2019 15: 43
            0
            Quote: tech3030
            Sberbank Defender?

            Defender of the truth, in this case. Illiterate screamers are able to discount any protest, which is clearly not good for the cause.
        2. Arthur 85
          Arthur 85 4 December 2019 12: 46
          0
          Yeah. And at what rates are deposits in this currency. Isn't it zero? And due to what the bank live?
        3. The comment was deleted.
          1. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 4 December 2019 12: 51
            -6
            Why, if you take on the development of your business and know that you will quickly repay this loan, then you need to take it. Risk? Of course.
        4. Stas157
          Stas157 4 December 2019 15: 00
          +4
          Quote: AU Ivanov.
          Look in what currency Sberka gives loans in the Czech Republic. And compare its volatility with the ruble.

          Why should this worry citizens? According to the constitution, the state must ensure the stability of the national currency. It does not do this. And the fact that inflation (instability) is occurring is the policy of the authorities that is completely to blame. The high refinancing rate, raising tariffs on the products of natural monopolies, raising utility tariffs ... There are no excuses for the state.
      2. rocket757
        rocket757 4 December 2019 12: 36
        0
        Quote: tech3030
        Look what interest "Sberbank" takes in the Czech Republic and what it is from us, you will be very surprised. It is easier to rob Russians than others, everything is adjusted to this!

        No problem. They have already passed the stage when they tried to grab a quick ... before our noses - it has not yet reached, and the population is contributing to that ... well, contributing.
        It is necessary to realize that it is better in moderation, but forever!
        There are still reasons, circumstances, different, which do not change one thing - a trap, like a mousetrap, hosh, hosh, don’t go ... either tasty, but not for long, or long, but without tasty.
        One more thing, the state is what WE almost chose! from here and the consequences.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Qwertyarion
        Qwertyarion 4 December 2019 13: 13
        0
        Quote: tech3030
        Look at what interest Sberbank takes in the Czech Republic and what we have,

        At interest rates on loans in Russia, you need to redirect the question to the Central Bank - this is their control and regulation zone.
        Abroad, another financial regulator and our banks work there according to their conditions.
      5. Chersky
        Chersky 4 December 2019 13: 58
        -3
        Look what interest "Sberbank" takes in the Czech Republic and what it is from us, you will be very surprised. It is easier to rob Russians than others, everything is adjusted to this!

        Maybe there are such rates because the funds are attracted at a lower interest rate? For example, for a term deposit for a period of 3 years the rate is 1,85%. I think when our deposits will be placed at such rates, then interest on loans will be less.
      6. CERBERFOL
        CERBERFOL 4 December 2019 14: 56
        -1
        Not only rob, but will soon be taken away from the Russians and sold over the hill (a new bill on domestic violence)
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 4 December 2019 12: 44
      +9
      Quote: rocket757
      This problem moves ON THE PLANET, very quickly and confidently!


      There are no planetary problems here. We began to live in a country with a liberal market (speculative) economy, where the government is absolutely devoid of any obligations to its own citizens.
      There were times of the USSR. There were Savings Banks with rates of “On Demand” - 1%, “Urgent” - 3% and consumer credit at 4% ... And people used this system, even despite the existence of “black cash registers”.
      “Black Cashier” is a voluntary community in the work collective. Each month, the selected chairman collected contributions to the Black Cashier and kept a register. This is described in detail in the film "Zigzag of Fortune." At the checkout you could borrow without interest ...

      Today, when inflation in the country is purely the result of currency banking speculation and the manipulation of the sale of raw materials for a currency (again with the transfer of money) from one currency to another, when a bank spread with multiple exchanges can leave the owner without any money, when the bank interest on loans at times higher than the interest on deposits, wait for some concessions from banks or get a chance not to fall into credit slavery - nonsense.
      Is there a solution to this problem? Oddly enough, it lies on the surface. You and I did not create a state so that it simply robbed us, referring to some international rules. It through the state bank should set the conditions for all banks in the country. That is why the owners of banks must create their capital themselves, according to general rules, and not overnight, but for years. In this way, any (including banking) activity in the country should be organized. That is why state structures exist.

      And we sit and wonder why people get into credit slavery. Yes, precisely because of this very state policy. What, have already closed all the offices of "Quick Money"? Today, at Magnit on Builders Boulevard on the second floor, a divin legally sits at the desk and waits for his client.

      Olga Skabeeva today hinted that Russian citizens who were planning (on average) to spend 10 rubles on New Year’s Day on Black Friday left more than 000 rubles in Russian stores. Who made them? So, it’s too early to talk about any planetary problem ... Remembering Bulgakov’s words:
      "Therefore, the devastation is not in the closets, but in the heads ..."
      we can summarize that the devastation is not in planetary problems, but in that very ruined life, our herd and heads, which does not give rest to raking hands.
      hi
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 4 December 2019 13: 00
        +2
        Quote: ROSS 42
        We began to live in the state

        Theoretically, EVERYONE should know and realize what our STATE has become!
        Humble, not humble ... but you must live by these rules, because without changing the system, another is not expected!
        Not measured ... create something and fight, only real, empty chatter, oohs and aahs never helped anything!
        Quote: ROSS 42
        "Therefore, the devastation is not in the closets, but in the heads ..."

        that's right, everything repeats again.
        Quote: ROSS 42
        we can conclude that the devastation is not in planetary problems,

        it's not about our country, specifically. This is a repetition of the claims of specialists, people who are in the course that such a phenomenon gets, in one form or another, to all countries, distant corners of the planet that have not been touched before. It’s not me who invented it, experts say so.
      2. Grandfather
        Grandfather 4 December 2019 14: 35
        +6
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Olga Skabeeva hinted today

        and you were led ... laughing wassatyou still listen to Solovyov with jelly!
      3. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 4 December 2019 15: 06
        +7
        Quote: ROSS 42
        And we sit and wonder why people get into credit slavery. Yes, precisely because of this very state policy. What, have already closed all the offices of "Quick Money"?

        All these desks are under the patronage of one very influential lady.
        In Russia, loans and tariffs kill everything, and most importantly, they kill industry.
        By the way, in France mortgages from 0,5 to 1,5% per annum.
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 4 December 2019 16: 49
          +6
          Quote: Stroporez
          By the way, in France mortgage from 0,5 to 1,5% per annum.

          Do you want to like in Paris ??
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 4 December 2019 16: 56
            -1
            Quote: Stas157
            Quote: Stroporez
            By the way, in France mortgage from 0,5 to 1,5% per annum.

            Do you want to like in Paris ??

            Yes, you all want it. And so that the loan and prices are local and in rubles, and the interest rates on the loan are "whatever" and on foreign exchange (loan) laughing

            Freeloaders, in a word yes
            1. Stas157
              Stas157 4 December 2019 17: 13
              +3
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              Freeloaders, in a word

              And then Kisa put in his five cents! Both on!!!)))

              That's right, Kitty, our president thinks so too. There is nothing for freebies to give a mortgage of 1,5%. Let them take what they give, but they will say thanks for that! So kitty?
              You would be a worthy successor to any high-ranking official. Think directly according to the "state" ... just like those who offered people to live on macaroshkas!))
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 4 December 2019 17: 19
                -2
                Quote: Stas157
                And here...

                ... Ostap, pah, stasika, of course - it suffered.

                You shout, shout ... maybe he will laughing
                1. Stas157
                  Stas157 4 December 2019 17: 34
                  +4
                  Quote: Golovan Jack
                  You shout, shout ... maybe he will

                  Golovan, I’m looking at your profile picture and something that reminds me very much ... Both in form and in content. Exactly the same!)))

                  1. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack 5 December 2019 19: 12
                    -3
                    Quote: Stas157
                    Golovan, I’m looking at your profile picture and something that reminds me a lot ...

                    Your buddy reminds me empty place wink

                    Quote: Stas157
                    Both in form and in content ...

                    ... this "avatar" is the best fit for you. For once you've done something right.

                    IMHO, naturally yes
            2. ccsr
              ccsr 4 December 2019 19: 29
              -1
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              Freeloaders, in a word

              Well no, they are just dreamers ...
        2. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 4 December 2019 18: 59
          -2
          Quote: Stroporez
          By the way, in France mortgages from 0,5 to 1,5% per annum

          More interesting in China -
          The Central Bank of China approved the value of a single interest rate on mortgage loans for housing. For the first time in history, it became negative, accounting for -4,3 percent. Banks are entitled to reduce the rate down to -6,3 percent
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 4 December 2019 20: 44
            +7
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Quote: Stroporez
            By the way, in France mortgages from 0,5 to 1,5% per annum

            More interesting in China -
            The Central Bank of China approved the value of a single interest rate on mortgage loans for housing. For the first time in history, it became negative, accounting for -4,3 percent. Banks are entitled to reduce the rate down to -6,3 percent

            Ahem, "Ingvar" ... down there, under the article, there is a postscript:

            Satirical edition "Panorama". All texts on this web resource are grotesque parodies of reality and are not real news.



            Nice joke, "Ingvar" good laughing good
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 4 December 2019 21: 45
              +2
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              Ahem, "Ingvar" ... down there, under the article, there is a postscript:

              Yes Kitty, I admit, burst. feel I pulled out the first data on request. bully
              Nevertheless, after clarifying and checking the data, I post the exact numbers - 3.25% pa. By our standards, a freebie. Moreover, the key rate of the Bank of China is higher (!), And amounts to 4.5%. This is Kisa, taking care of her citizens.
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 4 December 2019 21: 51
                0
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                This is pussycat

                And I thought it was "Ingvar" ...

                And you lag, buddy, all the time, so don’t be shy like that ... laziness just to catch you by the hand every time, and it reaches you ... with difficulty, I must admit.

                Bored with you, I want to sleep from you request
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 4 December 2019 21: 55
                  +1
                  Quote: Golovan Jack
                  laziness is just you apparent once by hand catch

                  Well, don’t talk about yourself, Kitty - you are constantly looking for a reason. Unfortunately, I do not give them to you often. And I admit mistakes, unlike you. wink
                  You there somehow taught me spelling, but you yourself entered the same heap. How so, pussycat? wink
                  1. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack 4 December 2019 22: 01
                    +1
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    You there somehow taught me spelling, but you yourself entered the same heap

                    So I say - it comes to you tight. Come on, don't cough ... more laughing
              2. Nikolai Grek
                Nikolai Grek 4 December 2019 21: 55
                +2
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Yes Kitty, I admit, burst. I pulled out the first data on request.

                what revolutionary attempts are increasingly blocking your eyes, the fight against Ryzhym kills your brain !!! request wassat wassat laughing laughing laughing
            2. Nikolai Grek
              Nikolai Grek 4 December 2019 21: 51
              +3
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Quote: Stroporez
              By the way, in France mortgages from 0,5 to 1,5% per annum

              More interesting in China -
              The Central Bank of China approved the value of a single interest rate on mortgage loans for housing. For the first time in history, it became negative, accounting for -4,3 percent. Banks are entitled to reduce the rate down to -6,3 percent

              Ahem, "Ingvar" ... down there, under the article, there is a postscript:

              Satirical edition "Panorama". All texts on this web resource are grotesque parodies of reality and are not real news.



              Nice joke, "Ingvar" good laughing good

              in the fight against Ryzhim any crap is good ... most importantly, turn off the brain (if any) !!! wassat wassat lol lol lol
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 4 December 2019 21: 57
                -2
                Quote: Nikolai the Greek
                in the fight against Ryzhim any crap is good ... most importantly, turn off the brain

                Fighters for rEzhim do not include it at all! They do not pay loot for the brain! wassat
                1. Nikolai Grek
                  Nikolai Grek 4 December 2019 22: 07
                  +2
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Quote: Nikolai the Greek
                  in the fight against Ryzhim any crap is good ... most importantly, turn off the brain

                  Fighters for rEzhim do not include it at all! They do not pay loot for the brain! wassat

                  Well, so you don't really shine with intelligence ... and before that it showed through ... well, with your "Chinese minus mortgage" so finally you got out to full height ... then your rivals don't need brains to put you below the plinth! !! wassat wink lol lol lol
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 4 December 2019 22: 13
                    0
                    Quote: Nikolai the Greek
                    here your rivals don't need brains

                    I noticed this a long time ago that I’m not needed. Organs that are underutilized will atrophy. wink
                  2. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack 4 December 2019 22: 21
                    0
                    Quote: Nikolai the Greek
                    you do not really shine with intelligence ...

                    Colleague, your patient strongly disagrees.

                    Good advice - spit. Saliva.

                    Well, unless of course you want to get a lot of kindergarten-level hygiene humor in response laughing
                    1. Nikolai Grek
                      Nikolai Grek 4 December 2019 22: 29
                      +2
                      Quote: Golovan Jack
                      Quote: Nikolai the Greek
                      you do not really shine with intelligence ...

                      Colleague, your patient strongly disagrees.

                      Good advice - spit. Saliva.

                      Well, unless of course you want to get a lot of kindergarten-level hygiene humor in response laughing

                      especially and was not going to discuss with him .... such even screwed up, they still drown their own ... "revolutionary" activity - it is! request wassat wassat lol lol lol
      4. Rzzz
        Rzzz 4 December 2019 21: 14
        +2
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Russian citizens who have gathered (on average) to spend 10 rubles on New Year’s Day on Black Friday left more than 000 rubles in Russian stores. Who made them?

        Have you tried to count something? On a calculator, at least, although it’s easy in the mind, if you can.
        40 yards if divided by 160 million people, it’s 250 rubles. Per person on average. At a price like a pound of mid-sausage. That's all people allowed themselves to spend. ON SALE!!! That is, when prices are cheaper, people spent a mere penny at the level of the wage rate in just 1 hour.
        You listen to less than any showmen, otherwise you will start with Skabeyeva, and end, God forbid, Kiselev.
        Think for yourself. Brains.
        1. your1970
          your1970 10 December 2019 20: 56
          0
          Quote: rzzz
          40 yards if divided by 160 million people, it’s 250 rubles. Per person on average. At a price like a pound of mid-sausage.
          -
          1) babies ALSO a pound of sausage? Or a pound of iPhones?
          2) I’m embarrassed to ask, where did you see SALE? !!!! Even at Alieksperss the decrease was only 15-25% ..... and in ordinary stores there was a lot of fun at the base prices
          1. Rzzz
            Rzzz 11 December 2019 18: 41
            0
            A baby will pack a pack of diapers for 400 rubles faster than in a week. How much is a decent baby food - take a look for yourself in your area.
            1. your1970
              your1970 11 December 2019 22: 05
              +1
              Quote: rzzz
              A baby will pack a pack of diapers for 400 rubles faster than in a week. How much is a decent baby food - take a look for yourself in your area.
              - how much is a mommy's boobs?
              about preparing complementary foods themselves - this is necessary "decent ..." be sure to give .....
              mashed apples with a bunch of kitchen gadgets to cook - this is a global problem,

              About washing diapers, generally keep quiet - "this is not comme il faut, glamor does not do that, but you, I have shellac, ...".
              My 18 will be - diapers were used only when they were away from the house for a long time (hospital, guests, trips).
              I look at others - they do not need children, they need benefits, greatly simplifying life .....
              And children require care, love and a lot of work.
              Much easier to put on their diapers, put the phone in and go drink beer on the sofa .....
              and then wonder - and from where IT this has grown ...
              1. Rzzz
                Rzzz 11 December 2019 23: 12
                0
                You are in some kind of reality not like that. My mom’s sissy has personally ceased to be missed for me about a month already. He is a serious man and loved to fuck from the very beginning.
                Iron and wash the diapers around the clock, this is a carriage of strength and health, or a nanny with a housekeeper. And when mom has no strength, and dad in another city does not crawl out of work for months? But what can we make complementary foods from if you do not eat half, and are allergic to the second half?
                And didn’t you buy your toys at all, or did you also cut out houses from wood, like you did three centuries ago? They also stand oo-oo-oo-oo!
                Did you sew your clothes? But in the first few years, the cost of clothing is more than an adult!
                I drink beer, yes. Three liters per year.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 11 December 2019 23: 45
                  0
                  I didn’t try to feed my mother - so that there is enough milk? My was at 4 ...

                  "A wagon of strength"? before, women had more strength ... and literally 25 years ago, and perhaps 20, too. Washed and ironed, and without much mental strain. It was physically hard, yes, but now it's more like -that is observed the severity of the moral / mental

                  dad in another city? byada ..... and when the dad is military - and around the garrison? no, did not see this?

                  A nanny with a housekeeper? Of course there are people who love other people's children, but mostly just pay money. Are you sure that money can be raised well for a child?

                  Toys here, just like with clothes you can’t argue. It grows before the eyes of a child
                  1. Rzzz
                    Rzzz 13 December 2019 19: 11
                    0
                    Quote: your1970
                    didn’t try to feed mom - so that there is enough milk?

                    And get a 200 kg mom with ruined health? It seems to me the feeding of modern mixtures is the least evil. Expensive, yes. But it’s better for both the child and the mother. Well, for dad, as a result, although this is already secondary.
                    You completely incorrectly project your realities on everyone else. What is good with you is far from being a fact that suits someone else. All people are different.
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 15 December 2019 00: 42
                      0
                      Bad experience says that after mixtures in infants there are many times more sores than after my mother’s ....
                      Artists ......
                      1. Rzzz
                        Rzzz 15 December 2019 02: 54
                        0
                        Something carried somewhere far away from the topic of the conference.
                        Well, it’s good when a mother can feed her baby, and if she’s not enough? That's not enough, and that’s it. And the child is growing, and every day he needs more. If you like, run to the pharmacy for the mixture.
                        Well, I'm not an expert here, such things in more specialized forums will probably be better explained to you.
    3. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 4 December 2019 13: 06
      +3
      Quote: rocket757
      This problem moves ON THE PLANET, very quickly and confidently!

      "The collective farm is voluntary" (c) ....
      Many take a loan not at all from being imposed on pain of death.
      And many citizens and citizens are improving their living conditions thanks to a mortgage.
      Those. credit is rather good than bad.
      About interest on the loan - it will never be lower, or even equal, to the interest rate of the Central Bank. So, it makes no sense to compare lending conditions in different countries.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 4 December 2019 13: 16
        +2
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        Many do not take credit at all

        Is credit evil or necessary?
        My answer is differently! Not discussing, too many options.
        Since they gave a loan in the Land of Soviets, there will be no more ....
        I used it myself, very moderately .... robbery, but I had to!
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 4 December 2019 14: 07
          +2
          obscene swearing at the address of "our" government .. count the "stars" - that's all you have achieved! *************************** ************************************************* ************************************************* ************************************************* ************************************************* ************************************************* ********************************************
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 4 December 2019 12: 02
    +5
    Many Russian families can’t imagine their life without loans,
    Unfortunately, I know several such families. Thank God, not a mortgage, but their salaries are already planned out "in advance" ...
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 4 December 2019 12: 06
      +11
      I have a mortgage, otherwise I would live in odnushka with my wife and three children. request
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 4 December 2019 12: 09
        +9
        Honestly, honestly, I sympathize and wish you a successful completion of this epic. Thank God I escaped this fate. We bought a small kopeck piece due to the sale of my grandmother’s apartment and personal savings.
      2. Svarog
        Svarog 4 December 2019 12: 35
        +3
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        I have a mortgage, otherwise I would live in odnushka with my wife and three children. request

        This situation is with 90% of the population .. everyone has to pay predatory interest on loans .. and there are those who have taken a mortgage, have been paying it for 6 years, but they have not lived in the apartment .. because the developer went bankrupt and the house is not yet completed. .
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 4 December 2019 13: 06
          -3
          Mortgage insurance is one of the conditions. so the reason why they are sitting for me personally is not clear. If the developer went bankrupt, then collect the documents and the insurance. Then think before choosing a developer. it is not so difficult.
        2. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 4 December 2019 13: 26
          -1
          There is such a proverb: "Kroilovo leads to a hitalov. Buying an apartment from scratch or unfinished is a hefty risk.
      3. Grandfather
        Grandfather 4 December 2019 14: 41
        +2
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        I have a mortgage, otherwise I would live in odnushka with my wife and three children. request

        lucky with the region and with the profession .. stability. happy for you, but not many.
        and this is the bottom. The general mass of the people grabs onto any work, and this is the bottom. not moral, but economic. no mortgages, no loans, "interception" from neighbors "before" payday "- there are a lot of such ... I sponsor myself as I can, so as not to" slip ".
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 4 December 2019 15: 40
          -2
          in general, the last two years, the mortgage boom in the country has been going on, and this taking into account that the conditions for issuance are now much more complicated. They say growth will begin to fall, but the amount there is trillions of rubles. so there are few of them, so much we say so wrong.
          1. Grandfather
            Grandfather 4 December 2019 16: 43
            +1
            Quote: carstorm 11
            in fact, the last two years the mortgage boom in the country is

            in your country... wassat
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 4 December 2019 17: 34
              0
              well, like that. I live in Russia and did not take the first and last mortgage. these are bank reports that issued more than two trillion rubles in the country of mortgage loans.
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 4 December 2019 18: 10
            0
            Quote: carstorm 11
            actually the last two years a mortgage boom

            You scoop out Old? belay In the 18th, there really was an increase, in 2019, a decline.
            Quote: carstorm 11
            terms of issuance is now much more difficult

            The conditions have been simplified, Sber grants a loan on the basis of a certificate in the form of a bank, previously issued only 2 personal income tax.
  3. AU Ivanov.
    AU Ivanov. 4 December 2019 12: 07
    +5
    As the saying goes: to take out a loan is like putting in your pants: at first it’s even warm. Joke.
    Credit is a tool and how to use it as any tool.
    1. bk316
      bk316 4 December 2019 12: 19
      +8
      Credit is a tool and how to use it as any tool.

      100%. It’s good to cut circular boards - good.
      What about your fingers?
      Another thing is that the circulars in the instructions are FINE LARGE WRITTEN - this is a dangerous tool.
      And the loans have nothing of the sort, a mustache with small letters.
      1. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 4 December 2019 12: 25
        0
        With any action, before you click on the button or sign, you must turn on the brain. Free cheese is in a mousetrap, it’s an axiom.
      2. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 4 December 2019 13: 07
        -4
        there are no small letters there for already 7 years. the bank is obliged to show and explain everything on its fingers. in the end, there are credit brokers who will save you from all these difficulties.
        1. bk316
          bk316 4 December 2019 14: 29
          +5
          no small letters there for about 7 years.

          Yeah of course. It’s cooler now, there’s a link to the site.
          Show?
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 4 December 2019 15: 42
            -1
            what to show? I have been working with banks for years over the nature of my work. I myself do not need loans, but I already took a mortgage twice. All payments to the penny calculated and each explained, although not requested.
            1. bk316
              bk316 4 December 2019 16: 14
              +1
              what to show?

              Contract. If you ask, of course they will explain, do not ask, they will not explain.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 4 December 2019 17: 37
                0
                so you need to ask in any case) it is stupid to conduct a financial transaction and sign an agreement without reading at least) but I repeat I did not ask. not everyone in the bank deals with mortgages, and they speak to each one more than once and quite in debt.
                1. bk316
                  bk316 4 December 2019 17: 51
                  +2
                  so you need to ask anyway

                  But do I argue what is needed.
                  The people are used to the fact that pieces of paper are nonsense, so a saw can cut off its fingers, and a piece of paper, well, waved it all.
                  By the way, here I’m talking about a nuance not about mortgage but about consumer. I didn’t take a mortgage, maybe everything is strict there.
                  Specifically, my case. In the contract, a checkmark on credit insurance. Put a tick - you agree to insurance. Amount and schedule without insurance. In small letters, in case of a tick, follow the link. These are the pies. Of course, I looked right there in the office and looked and checked the box deliberately. And what kind of granny will she look at?
              2. tech3030
                tech3030 4 December 2019 19: 10
                0
                They will explain and show, but if you refuse insurance and other mutothenies that are being imposed on you, they will simply refuse.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 4 December 2019 13: 46
      -4
      Quote: AS Ivanov.
      As the saying goes: to take out a loan is like putting in your pants: at first it’s even warm. Joke.
      Credit is a tool and how to use it as any tool.

      That's exactly what this tool is and it needs to be learned to use it correctly. Two years ago, he helped our employee from another city to take a mortgage to buy a small apartment in the PIK group, near Moscow. Not only did they give a loan for 18 years, and she practically didn’t have her own funds, but housing at the stage of construction began cost more than a million more than it costs now, two years later. The monthly payment is 15 thousand rubles, in general, she can afford it, because she pays the same amount for a rented room now. It is difficult for her to get out, but everything is within reasonable limits, and given that in a few months she will move into a renovated apartment, it still makes sense to make such investments, at least for the sake of her future.
      Of course, not everyone can afford it, but those who think about the future and do not have the funds for the full cost of the apartment, a mortgage loan is now a great help. Especially against the background of those who took such loans 5-8 years ago, which cost him much more.
      1. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 4 December 2019 13: 54
        -2
        I took an apartment in a mortgage, as an investment in real estate. True, he had his own housing. I rented an apartment and paid off my mortgage payments. In the end: kopeck piece at almost the price of a down payment. If we take into account that during this time, apartments in St. Petersburg almost doubled in price.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 4 December 2019 19: 21
          -2
          Quote: AS Ivanov.
          I rented an apartment and paid off my mortgage payments.

          By the way, this is not so uncommon and I know about it, because my daughter took another loan from our other employee to buy a house, and then rented out an apartment for several years to extinguish it. Now she has fully paid off and is the owner of the house. True, they had to rent an apartment for almost five years, but otherwise they could not get out.
    3. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 December 2019 14: 51
      +2
      Quote: AS Ivanov.
      As the saying goes: to take out a loan is like putting in your pants: at first it’s even warm. Joke

      Yes, not a fig is not a joke ... when the children are still, and the husband! a woman, like in a bad series, is in soap, and he’s infected high .. children, they’re not to blame. as far as I know, such a dime a dozen.
  4. prior
    prior 4 December 2019 12: 10
    +10
    It is the bankers who will destroy human civilization. I think so....
    They are ruining their bondage and people and countries. Crises are also on their conscience.
    For what conflict do not scratch - money, financial interests, natural resources, that same money will come out ...
    And whoever steers with all this, rightly the banks, the financial empires of the Rothschilds and Rockefellers.
    Loan loop for the poor, perhaps not their most serious sin.
    On their conscience two world wars. For the sake of their interests, they can unleash a third.
    Banks are evil. Bankers are criminals.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 4 December 2019 12: 58
      +2
      There is a good film on this subject - "International". About how banks stimulate military conflicts by supplying weapons. Great movie.
      1. Altona
        Altona 4 December 2019 13: 57
        +7
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        There is a good film on this topic - "International".

        ---------------------
        By the way, the classic film "The Golden Calf" based on Ilf and Petrov fully reveals the essence of the capitalists. The promising capitalist in the form of Ostap Bender. A PR capitalist in the form of Koreiko, who took money for the construction of a power plant, and himself printed and sold postcards and even built several printing houses to print postcards. Petty-bourgeois personalities in the form of Kozlevich and Panikovsky, a loser criminal Balaganov. And how ingloriously the rich Bender finished, he was swindled by the Romanian border guards (just like today our oligarchs are pinched by the western ones). Still a brilliant work.
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 4 December 2019 15: 11
          +4
          Quote: Altona
          By the way, the classic film "The Golden Calf" based on Ilf and Petrov fully reveals the essence of the capitalists. The promising capitalist in the form of Ostap Bender. A PR capitalist in the form of Koreiko, who took money for the construction of a power plant, and himself printed and sold postcards and even built several printing houses to print postcards. Petty-bourgeois personalities in the form of Kozlevich and Panikovsky, a loser criminal Balaganov. And how ingloriously the rich Bender finished, he was swindled by the Romanian border guards (just like today our oligarchs are pinched by the western ones). Still a brilliant work.

          formerly "chippolino" ... (prohibited in the Russian Federation)
    2. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 December 2019 14: 53
      +3
      Quote: prior
      It is the bankers who will destroy human civilization. I think so....
      They are ruining their bondage and people and countries. Crises are also on their conscience.
      For what conflict do not scratch - money, financial interests, natural resources, that same money will come out ...
      And whoever steers with all this, rightly the banks, the financial empires of the Rothschilds and Rockefellers.
      Loan loop for the poor, perhaps not their most serious sin.
      On their conscience two world wars. For the sake of their interests, they can unleash a third.
      Banks are evil. Bankers are criminals.

      you somehow think wrong, you were not "asked" or something what
    3. The comment was deleted.
  5. Alien From
    Alien From 4 December 2019 12: 15
    +2
    Does anyone still doubt ???? Credit in his hands !!!!
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 December 2019 15: 56
      +1
      Quote: Alien From
      Does anyone still doubt ???? Credit in his hands !!!!

      "quick money" and backstabbing.
  6. stas-xnumx
    stas-xnumx 4 December 2019 12: 18
    +11
    I do not want to pessimize ... But I do not expect any improvement in living standards and changes in the direction of improving the economic situation, at least in the near future. By the way, like almost all of mine, a fairly numerous environment in the form of friends, relatives, etc., yes, probably like each of you ...
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 4 December 2019 12: 39
      +1
      An option, so that it wouldn’t be like ... somewhere, where it’s much worse than ours, YOU - are we unsatisfied?
      What to do?
      1. bk316
        bk316 4 December 2019 13: 08
        +6
        But I do not expect any improvement in living standards and changes in the direction of improving the economic situation,

        Are you worried about statistical data or YOUR LIFE?
        If the first, then I can not advise anything, except if if Honduras is worried, try not to scratch it.
        If the second one needs to work harder AND ATTENTION THIS IS IMPORTANT UNDER CAPITALISM (and we live under capitalism), we need to work harder that work for which we pay a lot and willingly. laughing That’s the whole secret. Then your standard of living will increase.
        1. Squelcher
          Squelcher 4 December 2019 13: 50
          +1
          Quote: bk316
          you need to work harder that work for which a lot and willingly pay.

          Bitter but absolute truth.
          Many do not accept this and do not understand, it is necessary to force oneself (to retrain, determine what is in demand on the labor market, undergo selection, etc.).
          1. bk316
            bk316 4 December 2019 14: 51
            +4
            Many do not accept and do not understand

            How can one not accept reality, Maxim?
            You would know how I liked to teach at Moscow State University, but when a child was born and we couldn’t feed and dress him normally, what was left for me?
            Yes, I now all have cars, dachas, apartments, boats, my son has a good education, but I'm not a professor, but a CIO.
            1. Squelcher
              Squelcher 4 December 2019 15: 51
              +2
              A man must feed his family because it is a responsibility. He changed several specialties, even learned a language, although there is no penchant for languages ​​since childhood, he constantly has to study and learn. Yes, I’m doing something I didn’t dream about, but I think it’s a sin to complain about life. I didn’t work for sugar, but I had to fall in love with a decent one, a decent salary allowed me to pay two mortgages ahead of time, support my parents, buy a big car for my family, travel, and more.
        2. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 4 December 2019 18: 20
          -1
          Quote: bk316
          you need to work harder that work for which a lot and willingly pay.

          Where to find it like that, and even for the Labor Code. wink Of course, you can do it, which I’m doing now, but unofficially, respectively, without social protection, holidays and sick leave. How much is enough for me - I don’t know. Official work with a normal salary (at least the average for the region) in the city is a problem.
          1. bk316
            bk316 4 December 2019 18: 26
            +6
            Official work with a normal salary (at least the average for the region) in the city is a problem.

            You can get a specialty suitable for remote work, you can move. There is no universal solution. Work in the country before a fig, but not any and not everywhere. A month ago he returned from Kamchatka, it would seem the edge of the world. Everything is normal with work for those who want to work. I’ve even gotten a little bad.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 4 December 2019 18: 53
              +1
              But what about the thesis "where he was born, he came in handy there"? I'm a nomad, I don't want to move, I want development in my city. And working remotely is not suitable for everyone, a recipe for units.
              Understand Volodya, AvtoVAZ after it became French, he completely threw off all social objects, sent almost all allies to the forest, and laid off more than half of the workers. Yes, it has become more profitable, it pays taxes regularly (only in St. Petersburg), but all kindergartens hung on the local budget, sanatoriums and dispensaries were closed. The Sakharov Technical Museum, formerly on the plant’s balance sheet, is quietly degrading, and the equipment is deteriorating. Although before the French everything was regularly watched. This is about Togliatti.
              In Dimitrovgrad, the situation is no better; about Syzran it is better to silently, as about the dead. hi
              And you about Kamchatka .... still about Chechnya would tell ....
              P.S. Although in some regions it’s really good, in Tatarstan for example, it’s as if you are coming to another country. request
              1. bk316
                bk316 4 December 2019 19: 22
                +3
                But what about the thesis "where he was born, he came in handy there"?

                And forget it. This is capitalism. Detroit is dead and Togliatti will die.
                Even with Scandinavian capitalism "with a human face" the same crap, villages are dying, the north of Finland is dying out.
                You can enter the system only by its rules. If we talk about making money, then capitalism allows it, and a lot of other things .....
                And it’s completely stupid to blame GDP or the government — it is the capitalist government of the capitalist state. Protects the interests of the capitalists and monitors the safety of the capitalist system.
                And with loans everything is the same. They are not loans in order that you would have a better life, that they would have earned banks well, and to enhance demand. If you manage to improve your life with their help, no one is against, and if no one helps to worsen.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 4 December 2019 21: 50
                  -1
                  Quote: bk316
                  And forget it. This is capitalism. Detroit is dead and Togliatti will die.

                  Thank you, comforted! laughing So you need to do so that capitalism has a human face. Otherwise, drop greenbacks on the forehead, and on the stadium, work with targets. good
                  1. bk316
                    bk316 5 December 2019 11: 41
                    +1
                    So you need to do so that capitalism has a human face.

                    I am afraid that capitalism with a human face is a fairy tale. Moreover, a harmful tale invented by our enemies with the goal of first collapsing the USSR and now with the goal of containing the Russian Federation. Remember that classics wrote about this - there is no human concept in capitalism, there are only labor resources that must be exploited for profit. All that capitalists need is the reproduction of resources.
        3. stas-xnumx
          stas-xnumx 6 December 2019 16: 38
          0
          Words, words, and you just remember how much you spent on products a week 5 years ago, and the same set now ... Just let’s say without phrases: when it happened, etc. Just really remember: Products, chemistry, everyday life is different, necessary things, etc. And I work as well as I worked 5-10-15-20-25-30 years ago. Every day from 8-30 to 18-00 / 19-00 ... Compare the prices and Our salary. How do you level off scale? Above nowhere to be seen? Here I am talking about.
    2. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 December 2019 14: 54
      +4
      Quote: stas-21127
      I do not want to pessimize ... But I do not expect any improvement in living standards and changes in the direction of improving the economic situation, at least in the near future. By the way, like almost all of mine, a fairly numerous environment in the form of friends, relatives, etc., yes, probably like each of you ...

      Cho just did not say that everything is getting worse and worse? and thanks to the government.
      1. stas-xnumx
        stas-xnumx 6 December 2019 16: 45
        0
        Duc here half well, such direct LUCKY guys gathered, and yet they have super and good. I wonder where they live and what they accept ??? Well, how does the language turn to say that everything is worse and worse, directly?))))
    3. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 December 2019 15: 14
      0
      Quote: stas-21127
      I do not want to pessimize

      that’s not pessimizdi ... wassat drinks
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. gabonskijfront
    gabonskijfront 4 December 2019 12: 32
    +4
    Muslims have Haram loan interest. One of the basic principles of Islam is to maintain a balance between the labor spent and the earnings earned from this work, so the prophet raised the issue of the fair distribution of surplus value long before Marx, hence the growth in popularity of Islam, because there is an order for social justice is always.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 December 2019 15: 15
      +1
      Quote: gabonskijfront
      Muslims have Haram loan interest. One of the basic principles of Islam is to maintain a balance between the labor spent and the earnings earned from this work, so the prophet raised the issue of the fair distribution of surplus value long before Marx, hence the growth in popularity of Islam, because there is an order for social justice is always.

      everything ..- a project in a thought! and we don’t shave our beards!
  9. knn54
    knn54 4 December 2019 12: 38
    +2
    \ Mortgage is not a prison. Amnesty will not be !!! (Mikhail Zadornov).
    And I would like to note the "advancement" of the Russian mortgage. If the Yankees, after the weaning of housing, the relationship between the client and the bank ceased, then in the Russian Federation banks will keep clients on a leash, even if they become homeless.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 December 2019 14: 55
      +2
      Quote: knn54
      If the Yankees, after weaning their homes, had their client relations with the bank terminated, then in Russia banks will keep their clients tied, even if they become homeless.

      only with the death of ALL relatives!
  10. Arthur 85
    Arthur 85 4 December 2019 12: 43
    -2
    Do not take loans, there will be no mousetrap, and empty banks will leave the market, because the bank's task is to lend to industry, not individuals.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 December 2019 14: 57
      +2
      Quote: Arthur 85
      Do not take loans, there will be no mousetrap, and empty banks will leave the market, because the bank's task is to lend to industry, not individuals.

      well done! retire, and buy yourself a refrigerator, and a broken washing machine and then a TV, a rope and soap ...,
      1. Arthur 85
        Arthur 85 4 December 2019 19: 25
        +1
        Now I have one apartment that I rent, the second one in which I live. Deposit at the bank. Because I think with my head, not with a loan calculator. I hope that by the age of 50 I will stop working in principle, and live for my pleasure if America in agony does not drag the world into the Third and the Last.
  11. Klingon
    Klingon 4 December 2019 13: 27
    0
    Quote: rocket757
    One of the problems of society is the debt load on citizens.

    This problem moves ON THE PLANET, very quickly and confidently!

    steps, but not with such crazy interest as in the Russian Federation, the same Sberbank offers loans in Germany for individuals at 1,8% per annum
  12. Altona
    Altona 4 December 2019 13: 49
    +7
    Something I do not see in this thread Seryozha 1987. He rubbed me in the topic about Gazprom that Gazprom is very effective with us "14 billion in net profit." Hey, Sergei? Why do we live so badly then? Where are our "welfare fondusics"? Well, explain it to us. laughing laughing
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 4 December 2019 14: 07
      0
      What does Gazprom have to do with loan rates? He paid tax on this profit and sleeps peacefully. Or are loans issued in cubic meters of gas?
      1. Altona
        Altona 4 December 2019 14: 14
        +5
        Quote: AS Ivanov.
        What does Gazprom have to do with loan rates?

        -------------------------
        Yes, Gazprom has nothing to do with interest rates on loans, formally. He has no profit. And our banks are not banks in the normal sense. I'm just saying that they are rubbing the population, that they say that everything is fine with us, the funds swell, corporations have profits and capitalization, that the economy is growing. And people’s salaries do not grow. I’m talking about this. And the Central Bank is related to interest rates on loans. Well, if you think about it, then Gazprom, as an exporter, has to do with financial policy, because all laws are being squeezed in its favor, and the ruble was crushed in favor of exporters, and salaries are not raised in favor of exporters either.
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 4 December 2019 14: 19
          +3
          How much growth can there be when about 40% of the economy is in the gray zone? When the underpayment of taxes is almost equal to tax revenues from oil workers.
    2. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 December 2019 15: 04
      0
      Quote: Altona
      Something I do not see in this thread Seryozha 1987. He rubbed me in the topic about Gazprom that Gazprom is very effective with us "14 billion in net profit." Hey, Sergei? Why do we live so badly then? Where are our "welfare fondusics"? Well, explain it to us. laughing laughing

      I suggest that you expand this topic and disclose how much Gazprom has paid for a lost court with Ukraine ... in my opinion, 75 billion ... but this is not accurate. who will pay? do not know ? but I know ... I ... and you. And this, nothing, that taxes in the Russian Federation over the past 10 years have grown 2.5 times, and the salaries of the little buoys. and cho ... the gentlemen strangle them, they strangle us, as a result, we all die? what the hell is the state?. (there esche with china misunderstandings according to the scheme, also seams)
      1. Nastia makarova
        Nastia makarova 5 December 2019 12: 04
        0
        What kind of nonsense about paying Gazprom to Ukraine?
    3. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 December 2019 15: 41
      -2
      Quote: Altona
      Something I don’t see in this thread is Seryozha 1987. He rubbed me in the topic about Gazprom that Gazprom is extremely effective with "14 billion in net profit". Hey, Sergei?

      duck he is ... on the islands is not available constantly.
  13. Paul Siebert
    Paul Siebert 4 December 2019 15: 55
    +4
    I will not whine.
    To change the situation in the country, it is necessary to change its economic formation.
    In a country where the banker, speculator and oligarch are the main people of the state, a bright future cannot be built.
    More precisely, it is possible to build, but only for them.
    Bank interest do not suit you?
    Look at Nabiullina - she has a dollar in every eye, in every phrase - about imaginary stabilization, in every hint - about the light at the end of an endless tunnel ...
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 December 2019 16: 10
      +2
      Quote: Paul Siebert
      Paul Siebert

      yeah comrade Kuznetsov ... you've never been so close to failure. but .. (lighting), as always, you are accurate in your definitions (read everything with a Georgian accent).
  14. Fevralsk. Morev
    Fevralsk. Morev 4 December 2019 16: 10
    +3
    In Russia, thanks to the sensitive leadership, everything is fine. Rosstat will not lie (honestly, honestly). And if the people live poorly, then he himself is to blame. Do not give birth to children / Eat macaroni / Go into business and most importantly, do not raskachivaet galley. Next year, the fantastic story Strategy-2030 will be published and we will live. In the meantime, hold on.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 December 2019 16: 23
      0
      Quote: Fevralsk. Morev
      In Russia, thanks to the sensitive leadership, everything is fine. Rosstat will not lie (honestly, honestly). And if the people live poorly, then he himself is to blame. Do not give birth to children / Eat macaroni / Go into business and most importantly, do not raskachivaet galley. Next year, the fantastic story Strategy-2030 will be published and we will live. In the meantime, hold on.

      I don’t know why the colleague is being minus. I’ll go while I brew the noodles, I don’t know how to read squiggles, 5 minutes and that's it ... what is it? I don’t know, in 15 minutes I’ll say ... maybe.
  15. Fevralsk. Morev
    Fevralsk. Morev 4 December 2019 17: 07
    0
    Quote: AS Ivanov.
    How much growth can there be when about 40% of the economy is in the gray zone? When the underpayment of taxes is almost equal to tax revenues from oil workers.

    I agree with you completely. I have a salary of 35 thousand, and the official one is 12.500. Who is to blame for this? State !!! Putting order in this area is not so difficult. Introduce a real criminal punishment for tricks such as in the US Democracy Citadel. Unpaid tax-got into prison. Really, not conditionally.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 5 December 2019 11: 26
      -1
      In this regard, most employers will have to plant and tens of millions of self-employed workers, they honestly do not pay the same taxes. But because everyone is happy with everything except the Ministry of Finance, nobody will do this now and in the near future.