Military Review

The first over-the-horizon radar "Container" takes up combat duty

113
The first over-the-horizon radar "Container" takes up combat duty

Starting today (December 1 2019, Sunday), the first overseas 29B6 Container type radar station is on combat duty. It is reported by the Ministry of Defense.


In the village of Kovylkino of the Republic of Mordovia, on December 1, as part of the Aerospace Forces, he will take up combat duty of the overhead detection radar of the “Container” type

- said in a statement.

The military department noted that this is the first station of this type, fully completed state tests and accepted into operation by the Ministry of Defense. She was on pilot combat duty for exactly a year - from December 1 to 2018 of the year. This radar will control the airspace over Europe to a great depth.

In total, four such stations are planned to be deployed: one each in the west and east of the country, two more will be deployed in the north-west and south directions. Stations are specially built inland, as they have a “dead zone” of 900 km.

Radars are designed to detect all types of aerodynamic targets, including airplanes, cruise missiles, hypersonic aircraft and so on. "Container" is able to control flights of any air targets at a distance of about 3 thousand kilometers in the sector 240 degrees. A radar can simultaneously track over 5 of thousands of airborne objects of various types, including small ones.


113 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Donald72
    Donald72 1 December 2019 06: 17
    +7
    TTX is impressive. And even a curious moment that our radar boasts of 100-300km. and then the dead zone 900 for it all at a glance.
    1. 1976AG
      1976AG 1 December 2019 07: 27
      +13
      And it’s good that not near the border, because it is more reliable.
    2. Vladimir61
      Vladimir61 1 December 2019 12: 49
      +6
      Quote: Donald72
      TTX impress.

      Is there something or someone obliging us to disclose individual performance characteristics (range, dead zones, etc.) or other features of operation? Let it not be "all", but the meaning is, okay, when this product is for export, but I think, "superfluous" is. Our "partners" need to know in more detail, let them spend, invest strength and money in this business, and not get it on a "silver platter" first-hand.
      1. 1976AG
        1976AG 1 December 2019 15: 49
        0
        Regardless of whether we published TTX or not, they will all the same, as you say, spend money, invest effort and money, because they still will not believe that the true characteristics are published.
      2. Alexey LK
        Alexey LK 4 December 2019 20: 39
        0
        Quote: Vladimir61
        do not get on a "silver platter" first hand.

        And where did you get the idea that the given performance characteristics are pure (and complete) truth? The basic parameters of radiation can be estimated, but they don’t disclose details (the presence of a dead zone is not a secret, and it’s not at all a fact that it is exactly 900 km, plus it also depends on atmospheric and other conditions, etc.).
    3. Alien From
      Alien From 1 December 2019 15: 37
      0
      One question ...... the population does not go bald ???
      1. 1976AG
        1976AG 1 December 2019 15: 50
        +3
        We have a dead zone of 900 km, and let the west go bald.
        1. Alien From
          Alien From 1 December 2019 15: 58
          +1
          West even acne covered)))
    4. SASHA OLD
      SASHA OLD 1 December 2019 20: 50
      +1
      so it is "ordinary" radar, and then over-the-horizon - its waves are reflected in a different way: they are reflected from the ionosphere, for example (for example, decameter)
    5. Servisinzhener
      Servisinzhener 1 December 2019 21: 22
      0
      There are no contradictions in both statements. But there are nuances.
      It is very simplistic to describe this difference as follows:
      In the case when the radar sees at 100-300 km it works according to a simple scheme. The signal is reflected from the plane and returned back.
      And this radar was made so that the signal reflected from the ionosphere hit the plane, reflected from it and received by the radar.
    6. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 2 December 2019 18: 30
      +1
      Quote: Donald72
      Performance characteristics are impressive

      Particularly impressive are residents of nearby settlements
  2. aszzz888
    aszzz888 1 December 2019 06: 38
    +6
    Radar can simultaneously accompany more 5 thousand air objects various types, including small ones.

    Very solid, you will not say anything !!! good
    1. PN
      PN 1 December 2019 07: 14
      +12
      The computer should not be frail, so that 5 thousand objects can be processed and maintained.
      1. Svetlana
        Svetlana 1 December 2019 11: 01
        +7
        Quote: PN
        The computer should not be frail, so that 5 thousand objects can be processed and maintained.

        There, I am sure, a cluster, not one machine.
      2. KCA
        KCA 1 December 2019 11: 33
        +12
        If you don’t use a sweet couple of WIntel, then even a computer of level 8086 is enough, 5000 objects are nonsense, in toys an order of magnitude more objects are miscalculated, or even by 2-3 orders of magnitude, due to the fashionable trend towards a destructible environment
        1. Good_Anonymous
          Good_Anonymous 1 December 2019 12: 59
          -1
          Quote: KCA
          If you do not use a sweet couple of WIntel, then even a computer of level 8086 is enough


          Yeah, 4004. What are they, the busurmans, to regret.
  3. Advisor to the Council of Advisers
    Advisor to the Council of Advisers 1 December 2019 06: 41
    +3
    Serious station.
    1. cost
      cost 1 December 2019 08: 56
      +20
      two-coordinate over-the-horizon sky-wave radar 29B6 "Container" of the reconnaissance and warning system of an aerospace attack was developed by the Moscow Scientific and Production Complex "Research Institute of Long-Range Radio Communication" with the participation of JSC "Pravdinskoye Design Bureau" (Balakhna, Nizhny Novgorod Region) 5452, military unit 80158). In Kovylkino the receiving part and the main hardware part of the radar station (site No. 2) are located, another part of the station with radiating antennas is located at site No. 1 near Gorodets (Nizhny Novgorod region)
      The receiving antenna system of the 29B6 "Container" radar in Kovylkino consists of 144 antenna-feeder masts 34,155 m high and 1300 m long and 200 m deep. The detection range of air targets is over 3000 km, the field of view is 240 degrees.






      ]

      1. Gromozeka
        Gromozeka 1 December 2019 09: 22
        +3
        rich (dmitry)! This ZGRLS is designed to detect and track only air targets with a flight altitude of up to 40 km ...
        1. cost
          cost 1 December 2019 09: 31
          0
          What is the point of your clarification?
          1. Gromozeka
            Gromozeka 1 December 2019 09: 42
            +5
            ZGRLS "Container" is designed to detect and track only air targets with a flight altitude of about 40 km. You just do not have such an important parameter.
            https://dfnc.ru/katalog-vooruzhenij/rls-sprn-i-pvo/29b6-kontejner/
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Operator
              Operator 1 December 2019 14: 49
              +8
              ZGRLS are designed to detect both air and surface targets (see the open performance characteristics of the ZGRLS "Sunflower-E"). Working range - decameter (wavelength from 10 to 100 meters). The maximum detection altitude of air targets is determined by the height of the reflection of the sounding radio emission from the ionosphere. The detection range is determined by the transmitter power (about 1,5 MW for the Container OGRLS), the resolution - by the wavelength and the mode of reflection of the probe radiation from the ionosphere.

              In the single-hop mode (single-shot reflection) when operating in the near decameter range, the resolution of the Container ZGRLS is 5 meters at a distance of 3000 km.

              In the two-hop mode (double reflection) when operating in the far decameter range, the resolution of the Container ZGRLS is 50 meters at a distance of 6000 km.
  4. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 1 December 2019 07: 00
    0
    Obviously much cheaper than "Darial", and if it is an analogue, then it's just great! And if not, then it's still not bad.
    1. Good_Anonymous
      Good_Anonymous 1 December 2019 12: 48
      0
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Obviously much cheaper than "Darial"


      Why would she be cheaper than "Darial"?
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 1 December 2019 13: 04
        0
        At least due to the rejection of a huge building.
        1. Operator
          Operator 1 December 2019 14: 52
          +3
          The "Container" over-the-horizon radar is several times cheaper than any over-the-horizon missile attack warning system due to a simpler antenna system.
        2. Good_Anonymous
          Good_Anonymous 1 December 2019 15: 07
          +2
          The building is not huge. And the price of the box itself is nonsense compared to its filling.
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 1 December 2019 16: 31
            0
            Well, if the concrete box 100 * 100 * 50 m is not a huge building, then it costs a penny, obviously.
            1. Good_Anonymous
              Good_Anonymous 1 December 2019 16: 38
              0
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              Well, if a concrete box of 100 * 100 * 50 m is not a huge building


              The huge is Don-2N:


              This radar is a tetrahedral truncated pyramid with a height of 33–35 m, side lengths of 130–144 m at the base and 90–100


              And "Darial" is just big.
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 1 December 2019 16: 47
                +1
                If one huge building is slightly larger than another huge building, then this does not turn the second into an ordinary one.
                Are there two such penny boxes? The height is three times almost more, one foundation for which this fool is worth. Even if a third of the cost of the system was simply spent on capital construction, then this is huge, not even money, money.
  5. Starper-xnumx
    Starper-xnumx 1 December 2019 07: 10
    -3
    Oh, to such radar S-400-500 for a complete set and more ..
    Then you can sleep peacefully. hi
  6. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 1 December 2019 07: 36
    +9
    Europe covers the whole ... Well, almost, taking into account the "dead zone" ... The addition to the "Voronezh", obviously, will work together with them. You see better, you live longer laughing
  7. Fuse angel
    Fuse angel 1 December 2019 08: 06
    +14
    The stations are specially built in the depths of the territory, as they have a "dead zone" of 900 km

    It’s so good that we have such a huge country that it’s possible to build radars with such a dead zone, not in every country this is possible
    1. askort154
      askort154 1 December 2019 10: 41
      +2
      What is important - it is able to recognize hypersonic targets at a distance of 3000 km.
      That is, there is already a reserve for the future. According to their plan should be built
      4 pcs., Which will allow to control the airspace of neighboring states.
  8. Konstantin Ivanov
    Konstantin Ivanov 1 December 2019 08: 20
    +3
    A very expensive station, everything new is a well-forgotten old one, at first they broke similar stations deployed under the Soviet Union, now they are rebuilding.
    1. Lena Petrova
      Lena Petrova 1 December 2019 09: 37
      +7
      Quote: Konstantin Ivanov
      A very expensive station, everything new is a well-forgotten old one, at first they broke similar stations deployed under the Soviet Union, now they are rebuilding.

      Well, they thought that there would be friendship with "partners" and love. It turned out that without Russophobia, they wouldn’t take them to Europe, and the states wouldn’t take it.
    2. Good_Anonymous
      Good_Anonymous 1 December 2019 15: 09
      +2
      Quote: Konstantin Ivanov
      first broke similar stations deployed under the Soviet Union


      Soviet stations simply worked out their own.
    3. Svetlana
      Svetlana 1 December 2019 20: 04
      0
      They did not break. Those that were in the territories of the republics became the property of new states.
  9. Mwg
    Mwg 1 December 2019 08: 49
    +3
    Thank God, we are starting to return the achievements of the USSR in defense. Here, over-the-horizon radars are introduced again.
    1. knn54
      knn54 1 December 2019 09: 07
      0
      http://www.famhist.ru/famhist/kisunko/0000f8bd.htm
    2. PSih2097
      PSih2097 1 December 2019 10: 30
      +4
      Quote: MVG
      Thank God, we are starting to return the achievements of the USSR in defense. Here, over-the-horizon radars are introduced again.

      exactly, it reminded me ... Radar 5Н32 "Arc" in Chernobyl-2.

      1. Bongo
        Bongo 1 December 2019 11: 22
        +6
        Quote: PSih2097
        face-to-face, it reminded me ... Radar 5N32 "Arc" in Chernobyl-2

        This station was part of the early warning system, and was mainly intended to fix the launch of ICBMs and SLBMs. The antennas of another Duga radar were located south and north of Komsomolsk-on-Amur. In the vicinity of the villages of Kartel and Lian. In the early 90s, there was a fire at this station and it was dismantled. Now in the place where the antenna was located not far from the Cartel, the S-400 division is deployed. And in Liana everything is sad, the military town is destroyed.
        1. Anton Yu
          Anton Yu 1 December 2019 12: 58
          0
          I hope it is not like "Doug"
          1. Operator
            Operator 1 December 2019 14: 58
            +6
            The Soviet ZGRLS "Duga" was an order of magnitude more expensive (in comparable prices) than the Russian ZGRLS "Container" due to a much more expensive antenna system designed to operate in a three-hop mode (threefold reflection of probe radiation from the ionosphere) in order to increase the detection range of ionized trail from the launch of ICBMs and SLBMs.

            The Duga demonstrated unreliable operation in the three-hop mode, so the Container was originally designed for a two-hop mode with a range of 6000 km (detection at this range of targets such as strategic bombers, ionized traces from the launch of ballistic missiles and surface ships, starting with corvettes).
    3. Chaldon48
      Chaldon48 1 December 2019 12: 51
      +1
      There should be enough missiles ready for battle, this station is just a sight to it, you need a "gun" constantly ready for battle.
      1. Good_Anonymous
        Good_Anonymous 1 December 2019 13: 08
        +3
        Quote: Chaldon48
        this station is just a sight


        This station is not a sight, but an observation post. Contributed Contributor smile
      2. Captain Pushkin
        Captain Pushkin 1 December 2019 13: 08
        +2
        Quote: Chaldon48
        There should be enough missiles ready for battle, this station is just a sight to it, you need a "gun" constantly ready for battle.

        This is never a sight. This is a keen eye without a sight.
        1. Operator
          Operator 1 December 2019 15: 04
          +2
          The range resolution of the "Container" ZGRLS is 1 km, and the azimuth is 1 degree.

          That is enough to issue external target designation to missiles equipped with active radar seeker.
          1. Good_Anonymous
            Good_Anonymous 1 December 2019 18: 08
            +2
            Quote: Operator
            The range resolution of the "Container" ZGRLS is 1 km, and the azimuth is 1 degree.

            Which is enough to issue external target designation to missiles,


            If school geometry doesn’t fail me, then 1 degree at a distance of 900km is 54km. Do you really think that is enough?
            1. Operator
              Operator 1 December 2019 20: 39
              +3
              It all depends on the capabilities of the ARGS missile.
              1. Good_Anonymous
                Good_Anonymous 1 December 2019 21: 34
                +2
                Quote: Operator

                Quote: Good_Anonymous
                1 degree at a distance of 900km is 54km. Do you really think that is enough?

                It all depends on the capabilities of the ARGS missile.


                By the way, for 2000km 1 degree gives 120km repeat But, of course, everything depends on the ARGSN.
            2. KAA_57
              KAA_57 1 December 2019 21: 39
              +6
              It changes. 1 degree at a distance of 900 km is about 15 km.
              Because in a circle of 360 degrees. This water boils at 100.
              1. Good_Anonymous
                Good_Anonymous 1 December 2019 21: 44
                0
                Quote: KAA_57
                in a circle of 360 degrees. This water boils at 100.


                Forever forget about it.
          2. Captain Pushkin
            Captain Pushkin 2 December 2019 14: 45
            +3
            Quote: Operator
            The range resolution of the "Container" ZGRLS is 1 km, and the azimuth is 1 degree.

            That is enough to issue external target designation to missiles equipped with active radar seeker.

            The fact that ZGRLS two-coordinate does not bother? There is a target at 13 km or 30 m in height, does it play a role?
        2. Chaldon48
          Chaldon48 1 December 2019 17: 13
          0
          All the same, the "keen eye" will help its owner little if he does not have enough funds to eliminate the noticed danger.
  10. Pavel57
    Pavel57 1 December 2019 09: 17
    +2
    An example to the issue of the presence of large territories.
  11. rocket757
    rocket757 1 December 2019 09: 22
    0
    Interception / defense systems + airspace CONTROL system, this is optimal ... Yes, there are also "tanks" on the head, so that if something happens, the enemy "airfields" can be covered!
  12. Lesorub
    Lesorub 1 December 2019 12: 03
    +2
    The container "is capable of controlling flights of any air targets at a distance of about 3 thousand kilometers in a sector of 240 degrees.

    The range is impressive - airspace control at a strategic range!
    1. Good_Anonymous
      Good_Anonymous 1 December 2019 12: 56
      +1
      Quote: Lesorub
      Range is impressive


      EPR and probability of detection are not indicated.
      1. Bongo
        Bongo 1 December 2019 13: 08
        +2
        Quote: Good_Anonymous
        EPR and probability of detection are not indicated.

        For low-altitude targets, ZGRLS are not capable of working, although they see aircraft flying well made with elements of technology of low radar visibility not bad. This is a peacetime standby radar. They have a very great vulnerability, they are not able to issue accurate target designation for air targets.
        1. Good_Anonymous
          Good_Anonymous 1 December 2019 13: 18
          +2
          I mean, what is the point of secreting the characteristics, if this radar was even offered for export.

          Quote: Bongo
          Aircraft made with elements of technology of low radar visibility are seen quite well.


          If this is from the same row as meter radars that see stealth, then it is not very convincing (although probably physically justified), especially after the 2013 incident with the F-22 and the Iranian F-4.
          1. sivuch
            sivuch 2 December 2019 10: 19
            +2
            The fact is that meter radars do see stealth - worse than decameter and much better than decimeter. This is independent of the 2013 incident, which, to my shame, I have not heard anything reliable. Yes, in my opinion, I have not heard at all.
            1. Good_Anonymous
              Good_Anonymous 2 December 2019 23: 02
              +1
              Quote: sivuch
              This is independent of the 2013 incident, which, to my shame, I have not heard anything reliable. Yes, in my opinion, I haven’t heard at all


              In short, next to the Iranian F-4, which was about to intercept an American drone, suddenly appeared F-22. Despite the fact that the area was viewed by a variety of radars - from air defense to air traffic control.

              At least that is the version of the Americans.
              1. sivuch
                sivuch 3 December 2019 09: 39
                0
                Does the Iranian Defense Ministry agree that the F-22 was suddenly?
                In any case, to give long conclusions from this incident is somehow not serious.
                1. Good_Anonymous
                  Good_Anonymous 3 December 2019 10: 22
                  +1
                  Quote: sivuch
                  Does the Iranian Defense Ministry agree that the F-22 was suddenly?


                  I would be very surprised at this.

                  Quote: sivuch
                  to give long conclusions from this incident - somehow frivolously


                  And to draw conclusions from what seriously? Besides the results of the war, of course.
    2. Anton Yu
      Anton Yu 1 December 2019 14: 32
      +2
      The 5N32 Duga radar also had a range of 3000 km and the cost of three stations with transmitting centers was 7 billion Soviet rubles.
  13. Captain Pushkin
    Captain Pushkin 1 December 2019 13: 02
    +2
    Quote: Vladimir61
    Our "partners" need to know in more detail, let them spend money, invest in this business efforts and means, and do not get it on a "silver platter" at first hand.

    The physical principle of the operation of over-the-horizon radars is described in the open literature decades ago. He is well known to our opponents - they also work in this area.
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 1 December 2019 13: 10
      +1
      Quote: Captain Pushkin
      The physical principle of the operation of over-the-horizon radars is described in the open literature decades ago. He is well known to our opponents - they also work in this area.

      ZGRLS are available in the USA, Australia and China.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 1 December 2019 13: 33
        +3
        I saw a picket fence of such antennas in Israel. I don’t know what they’re cutting.
  14. Operator
    Operator 1 December 2019 14: 00
    +1
    "Well, Bongo, did the cartoons help you?" (FROM) laughing

    Lying is not good, but continuing to lie (the ZGRLS lacks the ability to target for anti-aircraft missiles with ARGSN) is even worse.
    1. region58
      region58 1 December 2019 16: 46
      +2
      Quote: Operator
      target designation capabilities for anti-aircraft missiles with ARGSN

      Would you please briefly explain how you imagine this?
      1. Operator
        Operator 1 December 2019 20: 34
        +3
        I’m sorry, I didn’t understand - explain what: the principle of radar, the method of target selection and / or the method of transmitting external target designation data?
        1. region58
          region58 2 December 2019 00: 37
          0
          Quote: Operator
          did not understand - explain what

          You can, of course, talk about selection methods (by the way - not an easy task), but let’s why it is simpler ... I’m talking about what purpose you are going to shoot down with an anti-aircraft missile for several thousand kilometers, what size and weight this missile will have, how much it will fly to the target, how to correct it, and will there be anything to shoot down when it flies?
          1. Operator
            Operator 2 December 2019 01: 25
            +3
            The detection range of the ZGRLS target is counted from the station’s base, but the flight range of an anti-aircraft, cruise or ballistic missile is counted from the place of their start, while the basing point and the start place do not have to coincide (transmitting the target’s coordinates via a wired or over-the-air communication line).

            At the maximum detection range of the ZGRLS "Container" in two-hop mode (6000 km), the following can reach the surface target:
            - MRBM "Rubezh", starting at a distance from the target (AUG or KUG) no more than 5500 km with a flight time of 15 minutes;
            - KR "Zircon", starting at a distance from the target (ship) no more than 1000 km with a flight time of 6 minutes.
            Over the indicated time, the surface target at a speed of 60 km / h will go away from the detection point by 15 and 6 km, respectively, which is less than the possibility of hitting a nuclear warhead (in the first case) or detecting an ARGS (in the second case).

            At the maximum detection range of the ZGRLS "Container" in single-hop mode (3000 km), the following can reach an air target:
            - S-500 rocket, starting at a distance from the target of not more than 500 km with a flight time of 5 minutes;
            - RVV-BD rocket, starting at a distance to the target of not more than 300 km with a flight time of 5 minutes.
            During the indicated time, an air target at a speed of 900 km / h will leave the detection point by 75 km, which is less than the detection capabilities of the ARGS missile (in the first case) or the onboard radar of the carrier aircraft with further radio command guidance of the rocket to the ARGSN capture line (in the second case) .
            1. region58
              region58 2 December 2019 02: 25
              -2
              Yeah ... It’s a pity that in real life there are no such conditions under which it would be possible to implement the methods of using ZGRLS indicated by you. hi
              1. sivuch
                sivuch 2 December 2019 10: 25
                +4
                Actually, speaking, this is exactly the direction that the developers of air defense equipment are going.
                There have already been successful experiments in the United States, where all the cursed penguin gave TS for marine Standards. Of course, the accuracy of the 3-cm radar is much higher, but the accuracy of the radar (like the ground stations of RTR) is enough. The only problem can be only the 3rd coordinate, i.e. height
                1. Bongo
                  Bongo 2 December 2019 10: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: sivuch
                  Of course, the accuracy of the 3-cm radar is much higher, but the accuracy of the radar (like the ground stations of RTR) is enough.

                  ZGRLS may be sufficient for the issuance of target designation for naval targets, but not for air targets.
            2. sivuch
              sivuch 2 December 2019 10: 31
              +2
              During this time, an air target at a speed of 900 km / h will leave the detection point at 75 km
              This is much more than the ability of the ARGS most typical goals. Another thing is that zurku can be adjusted in flight
              1. Bongo
                Bongo 2 December 2019 11: 17
                0
                Quote: sivuch
                During this time, an air target at a speed of 900 km / h will leave the detection point at 75 km
                This is much more than the ability of the ARGS most typical goals. Another thing is that zurku can be adjusted in flight

                When shooting at what range?
                1. sivuch
                  sivuch 2 December 2019 11: 31
                  0
                  Is this a matter of principle? With a range of firing zurki in n-hundred km, zglls will continue to track the target. Of course, provided that the radar itself has not yet been gouged and that the designers have solved all the problems associated with pairing a snake and a hedgehog
                  1. Bongo
                    Bongo 2 December 2019 12: 44
                    +1
                    Quote: sivuch
                    Is this a matter of principle?

                    If we compare the detection range of ZGRLS and the launch range of missiles, then yes.
                    Quote: sivuch
                    With a zurka firing range of n-hundred km, the zagrls will continue to track the target.

                    Duc in the troops there is nothing long-range 250 km yet. In my opinion, the construction of ZGRLS in the Russian Federation should compensate for the lack of a constant watch on the AWACS aircraft.
                    Quote: sivuch
                    Of course, provided that the radar itself has not yet been gouged and that the designers have solved all the problems associated with pairing a snake and a hedgehog

                    You understand that stations of this type are extremely vulnerable, as far as pairing is concerned, we will not recognize this.
    2. Bongo
      Bongo 2 December 2019 03: 17
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      "Well, Bongo, did the cartoons help you?"

      Andrey, of course I understand that "oddities" happen to you on a regular basis. But what is this for?
      Quote: Operator
      Lying is not good, but continuing to lie (the ZGRLS lacks the ability to target for anti-aircraft missiles with ARGSN) is even worse.

      And this is written by a person who has a reputation on the site as a "dreamer"? wassat If you served in the armed forces, and even more so in RTV or ZRV, you might know that even the Oborona-14 radar, which also operates in the meter range and is also two-axis not able to give accurate target designation for air defense systems, but only carries out preliminary reconnaissance of targets. For example, PRV-200 was used to provide target designation for the S-17VM air defense guidance system.
      1. sivuch
        sivuch 2 December 2019 10: 28
        +2
        Sergei, with all due respect, it’s somehow not very logical to talk about Sapsan using the example of a steam locomotive Felix Dzerzhinsky. Other times, other mores, different guidance systems.
        1. Bongo
          Bongo 2 December 2019 10: 32
          0
          Quote: sivuch
          Sergei, with all due respect, it’s somehow not very logical to talk about Sapsan using the example of a steam locomotive Felix Dzerzhinsky. Other times, other mores, different guidance systems.

          Hello, Igor! Do you sincerely believe that ZGRLS are capable of issuing target designation of air defense systems? No.
          As for the "Felix Dzerzhinsky steam locomotive", it, like the "Sapsan", travels on rails, and the physics of the process is the same for them, with different filling. By the way, the Oborona-14 radar is still in operation, and is very good in a number of parameters.
          1. sivuch
            sivuch 2 December 2019 10: 38
            +2
            With the accuracy of determining the coordinates (which is not a resolution, well, you know that wink ) several kilometers when using an active head? and what is the fundamental impossibility? I still see one very serious problem - the lack of a 3rd coordinate
            1. Bongo
              Bongo 2 December 2019 10: 43
              0
              Quote: sivuch
              I still see one very serious problem - the lack of a 3rd coordinate

              And that too.
              You have an idea of ​​how information about the target and in what form it enters the control cabin of the air defense system. How do you propose to pair the data received from the ZGRLS with the missile guidance station, even if we agree that the accuracy of determining the coordinates of the ZGRLS is acceptable, which I personally do not believe. For example, with the same "Defense-14" this is impossible, with a much shorter range.
              1. sivuch
                sivuch 2 December 2019 10: 59
                +2
                Do you mean unified protocols? Honestly, I don’t know how to deal with them now.
                And what feudal farms were in Soviet times - in general, it is known.
                Maybe this is really only a bright future, it's hard for me to judge from the couch. But even if zgrls gives preliminary TSU to the same Sky - Look in a solid angle 1 on 1 hail - that is already a lot. Plus an additional possibility of selection from all sorts of Mulds.
                1. Bongo
                  Bongo 2 December 2019 11: 12
                  +1
                  Quote: sivuch
                  Do you mean unified protocols? Honestly, I don’t know how to deal with them now.
                  And what feudal farms were in Soviet times - in general, it is known.
                  Maybe this is really only a bright future, it's hard for me to judge from the couch. But even if zgrls gives preliminary TSU to the same Sky - Look in a solid angle 1 on 1 hail - that is already a lot. Plus an additional possibility of selection from all sorts of Mulds.

                  Igor, I have already received "on the hat" for inappropriate details (such times have come), so just take my word for it. Radar "Sky" is also a reconnaissance station, like the modernized P-18 operating in the "brigade-regiment" link. I won't tell you a secret, but all modern medium and long-range air defense systems rely on their own radar detection equipment. In addition, you probably know what are the most long-range SAM and kakoo type on them GOS. Why do they need target designation from ZGRLS (which are peacetime stations), even if it were possible, and they were coupled with ACS of the regimental level?
      2. sivuch
        sivuch 2 December 2019 12: 08
        +1
        I remembered -
        http://www.vko.ru/oruzhie/proshchanie-s-lenoy
        Farewell to "Lena"
        the whole era is gone
        1. Bongo
          Bongo 2 December 2019 12: 37
          +2
          Quote: sivuch
          http://www.vko.ru/oruzhie/proshchanie-s-lenoy

          Duc of the first P-14 in fact in the troops for a long time. 5N84A "Defense-14" with external similarity and the same frequency range, this is a completely different station.

          Photos from personal archive
  15. Kaw
    Kaw 1 December 2019 15: 17
    +2
    That's interesting. If you look at the flyradar, the sky over Europe is just teeming with civilian sides. What, in all this mess, can a similar system (or its operators) be able to spot?
    1. Good_Anonymous
      Good_Anonymous 1 December 2019 17: 29
      +2
      The system is capable of tracking 5000 targets. In addition, aircraft routes are known in advance.
    2. not main
      not main 1 December 2019 20: 32
      +4
      Quote: Kaw
      That's interesting. If you look at the flyradar, the sky over Europe is just teeming with civilian sides. What, in all this mess, can a similar system (or its operators) be able to spot?

      and over Ukraine "clear sky".
      1. vindigo
        vindigo 2 December 2019 10: 20
        +1
        Right! I wonder why so?
        1. not main
          not main 2 December 2019 20: 43
          +1
          Quote: vindigo
          Right! I wonder why so?

          It's that simple! While the Dutch "experts" are "investigating" the Boeing MH-17, all airlines have already understood everything and concluded: it is better to fly in a roundabout way, losing on profitability, than to endanger the board, and especially passengers!
  16. NF68
    NF68 1 December 2019 15: 56
    0
    Good news.
  17. Pavel57
    Pavel57 1 December 2019 17: 10
    0
    Well, it consumes energy, you need a separate power station. Better nuclear power.
  18. Operator
    Operator 1 December 2019 22: 21
    0
    Quote: Good_Anonymous
    for 2000km 1 degree gives 120km

    See the range of action of ARGSN KR P-1000 "Volcano" on a target with a dispersion area of ​​100 sq.m.
  19. ss-n-22
    ss-n-22 1 December 2019 22: 21
    +1
    Quote: Operator
    "Well, Bongo, did the cartoons help you?" (FROM) laughing

    Lying is not good, but continuing to lie (the ZGRLS lacks the ability to target for anti-aircraft missiles with ARGSN) is even worse.

    Do you have a military specialty in air defense systems? If so, for what? If there is a VUS, then which one? For example, I have 07 *, share yours?
    1. Operator
      Operator 1 December 2019 22: 37
      +3
      Too lazy to look for a military ID in the archive.

      All the performance characteristics of the export version of the Sunflower single-jump ZGRLS with a range of 400 km are available on the Internet, the problems of implementing the Soviet Duga ZGRLS, American, Australian and French ZGRLS are also available.

      In short, the accuracy of determining coordinates using the ZGRLS is determined by the number of jumps (reflections from the ionosphere) of the probe radiation and, most importantly, by the power of the computer / the perfection of software processing the received signal.

      Do you have a VUS computer? laughing
    2. zyablik.olga
      zyablik.olga 2 December 2019 02: 45
      +1
      Quote: ss-n-22
      Do you have a military specialty in air defense systems? If so, for what? If there is a VUS, then which one? For example, I have 07 *, share yours?

      The operator did not serve in the army, for medical reasons, which still hinder the receipt of a driver’s license.
  20. ivanec
    ivanec 2 December 2019 11: 54
    0
    HAARP is more impressive
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 2 December 2019 12: 38
      +3
      Quote: ivanec
      HAARP is more impressive

      Is it ZGRLS?
      1. arkadiyssk
        arkadiyssk 2 December 2019 17: 43
        +1
        This is most likely a system to counteract ZGRLS, because unpredictably changes the height of the ionospheric layer, and hence the point of rebound of the radar beam from the ionosphere.
        1. region58
          region58 2 December 2019 19: 59
          +1
          Quote: arkadiyssk
          ionospheric layer height
          It has already been mentioned about "Duga"; to obtain data on the ionosphere, the "KRUG" station of reciprocal oblique sounding (BIS) of the ionosphere was intended.
          The "Arc" itself is in the background (receiving part).
  21. Operator
    Operator 2 December 2019 15: 40
    +2
    Quote: sivuch
    the problem can only be the 3rd coordinate, i.e. height

    The problem has a solution in the form of increasing the computing power of the ZGRLS and improving the program for processing the information contained in the reflected signals, respectively, from the target and from the underlying surface (differing by the time of arrival at the receiving antenna).
  22. Operator
    Operator 2 December 2019 15: 46
    +2
    Quote: Bongo
    PRS-200 was used to issue target designation for the S-17VM air defense guidance system

    The S-200 is a missile with PARGSN, and not with AGRSN: strange, no? laughing
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 3 December 2019 07: 15
      +2
      Quote: Operator
      The S-200 is a missile with PARGSN, and not with AGRSN: strange, no?

      This is strange only for those who argued that the Su-34 could carry the Kh-32 and "Calibers", as well as who fantasized about the ZGRLS on the islands in the South China Sea ... wink
      Or will you undertake to assert that for missiles with an active radar seeker, preliminary target designation is not necessary, and it can independently target a target without knowing the range, speed and altitude of the flight?
      1. Operator
        Operator 3 December 2019 10: 09
        +4
        Oh, wey, but you really can't hang an X-32 missile weighing 5760 kg under the Su-34, but initially a non-aviation X-41 missile weighing 4500 kg under the Su-27 can you? laughing


        It is not good to lie - I argued that the S-500 missile system needs external targeting from the Container ZGRLS before launch and, if there is a broadcast data transmission channel through the SAM to the missile, after launch (within the radio horizon, of course).
        1. Bongo
          Bongo 3 December 2019 10: 22
          +2
          Quote: Operator
          it is not possible to suspend an X-32 aviation missile weighing 5760 kg under the Su-34, and initially a non-aviation X-41 missile weighing 4500 kg under the Su-27 can still be

          Only in your reality, try to find a photo of a combatant Su-33 (there was never any talk about the Su-27) with a Mosquito.
          Quote: Operator
          Lying is bad

          Go to the mirror and repeat it to yourself. wassat
          Quote: Operator
          I argued that the missile of the S-500 complex needs external targeting from the "Container" ZGRLS before launch

          Two-coordinate Radar without PRV is unable to give target designation, do not confuse with preliminary reconnaissance of the target.
  23. ABM
    ABM 2 December 2019 22: 37
    0
    there will be no war! all in vain!
  24. imugn
    imugn 3 December 2019 12: 37
    0
    Well guys, no spies are needed, all TTX on a silver platter in the forum
  25. Operator
    Operator 3 December 2019 13: 15
    +2
    Quote: Bongo
    Two-coordinate radar without PRV is unable to give target designation

    To defeat low-maneuverable air targets with an EPR of ~ 100 square meters (strategic bomber, AWACS aircraft) when firing SAM with ARGS, the third coordinate as part of external target designation is not required.

    Plus, in the case of using a two-coordinate radar of a modern software and computer complex as a part of the equipment, two coordinates turn into three.