Hong Kong. Deng Xiaoping's main mistake

93

Former Red But Chinese District


The other day in communist China, the anti-communist opposition won an impressive victory in the elections to local district councils. This is by no means a sensation, since everything happened in Hong Kong: the opposition got a total of 347 from 452 seats. Beijing-loyal candidates only got 60 seats.

It is characteristic that back in 2015, the results of the same elections were recorded exactly the opposite. Now, once the “red Hong Kong” has changed its political orientation, which can be seen even on the electoral map.




In such a situation, it is reasonable to assume a further intensification of the domestic political crisis in Hong Kong with a view to promoting the idea of ​​separating it from the PRC. And Beijing’s reaction to such a scenario is unlikely to be long in coming, with all the geopolitical consequences that follow from here ...

The People's Republic of China, in essence, has been held hostage by its own political and ideological pragmatism. In the Celestial Empire, at the end of the 1970's, Deng Xiaoping's slogan “One country - two systems” was put forward with an eye on Taiwan. Then Hong Kong was still British, Aomen - Portuguese, and in relation to them the slogan in 1978-81. sounded only a little different: "One state - two systems."

But in view of the obvious, to put it mildly, debatable coexistence of different political and economic systems within the framework of one state at the XII Congress of the Chinese Communist Party in 1982, this was corrected in a less politicized form with the mention of "One Country", and not the state.

For the East, these are two big differences, and besides, it made it possible to more respectably announce the same thesis regarding Taiwan. The local authorities, as is known, still do not respond to such a “project” and invariably challenge the sovereignty of China throughout China.

Why does China need a second Taiwan?


"The reorientation of China to market rails in the economy, with its active involvement in the international financial market, on the one hand, brought together the economic systems of Hong Kong and China."


This, according to Taiwanese political scientist and economist Lun Wei, “facilitated the proclamation of Hong Kong as a special administrative region, but on the other hand, maintaining the leading role of the Communist Party and pro-communist government in China became the main factor in the growing incompatibility of both systems.”

Therefore, according to the expert, the principle of "One country - two systems" is capable, except in a short period. After which "the aggravation of political and economic contradictions between the two systems is inevitable."

This conclusion, which many analysts share, is fully confirmed by the current situation in Hong Kong, which is fraught with a further intensification of separatist tendencies in the region. What are the internal and geopolitical consequences for China is not easy to say. The Chinese Communists have considerable experience in suppressing all kinds of centrifugal tendencies.


Beijing is unlikely to put up with the “Taiwanization” of Hong Kong and has already officially accused the United States and Great Britain of escalating the anti-Chinese vector in the political crisis in Hong Kong (Riots in Hong Kong. Will China use the army and what will the West do).

Indeed, it was through British Hong Kong and Portuguese Macau (Macau) from the mid-1950 years that investments in China from the United States, other NATO countries and even Japan were directed up and down. And this happened, despite their sanctioned economic regime against China, compared with which the current sanctions against Russia are children's toys.

Since the beginning of the 80's, investments from Taiwan also began to flow through Hong Kong and Aomen. Their flow does not stop today, and although the expected explosive growth did not happen, the trend is important. In addition, through Hong Kong with Macau, the PRC has been building up trade relations with the West almost from the first years of its existence.

To date, the volume of transit (export-import and reverse) trade operations of the PRC with foreign countries through Hong Kong with Aomin is estimated at more than 20 billion dollars annually. This decade has been at the heart of such a transit - China’s procurement of dual-use and military equipment, financing of arms export and military-industrial technology transactions, as well as trade with countries under US or even UN sanctions.

In such a "Chinese list" of the DPRK, Iran, Cuba, Sudan, Somaliland and Yemen comfortably coexisted with South Africa and Southern Rhodesia. By the way, tacit financing and supplies weapons from the PRC, the rebel pro-Chinese groups in more than 30 countries of the world are also being implemented, as before, through all kinds of schemes through Hong Kong and Macau.

Communist China's capitalist enclave


The special role and importance of Aomin and especially Hong Kong in global financial and economic relations have especially grown since the second half of the 19th century - when the world powers took up the colonization of Southeast Asia. For a long time, these enclaves have preferential conditions for almost any business, regardless of the regional and world political conditions.


Business in Hong Kong is not only IT, banks, exchanges and transit

It is no coincidence that over one third of the total volume of its securities on the world stock market, the PRC has been selling through Hong Kong and Macau for more than a quarter of a century. Until the beginning of the 80's, this figure exceeded 65%. For the refusal of the PRC from the struggle for decolonization of the same enclaves, there were enough reasons.

Back in November 1952, the then head of the Chinese Foreign Ministry, Zhou Enlai, explained to foreign media that "the decolonization of the areas remaining colonial territories in China will be decided on the basis of emerging relations with these metropolises, with these areas and taking into account economic circumstances." Subsequently, the PRC authorities constantly confirmed the same approach.

And the first external signal to such a policy was the official recognition of the PRC by Great Britain in January 1950. This, of course, was associated with the Hong Kong factor. But British-Chinese relations (both countries were represented by charge d'affaires) reached the ambassadorial level only in May 1972.

13 March 1972 Chinese Foreign Minister Qiao Guanhua and British Charge d'Affaires John Addis signed a communiqué on behalf of the governments of both countries proclaiming diplomatic relations at the ambassadorial level, recognizing Taiwan as the PRC province and transferring Hong Kong to the PRC in connection with the upcoming expiration of the British lease term this area (in 1997 g.).

Moreover, in a separate ("Hong Kong") protocol to this document, it was noted that "the economic system in this area will not be subject to change within 50 years." The reasons for this position of Beijing are quite obvious, but was it not here that the root cause of the inevitable political and economic, or rather, systemic imbalances, was laid down within the framework of the aforementioned PRC course "One country - two systems."

Despite radical changes in China’s state economic policy since the beginning of the 80’s, Hong Kong remains a special enclave. Its financial and economic system and the domestic political, one might say semi-state system is a classic embodiment of Western capitalism with all its modifications.

"Solidarity" in Hong Kong?



Not a cobblestone, but an umbrella - a weapon of the proletariat of the third millennium

Red China is still so far from this that it is not even worth talking about any unity with the enclave. Whatever the results of local elections. Is it any wonder that in the course of protests in Hong Kong that have not stopped, the participants use a full range of "revolutionary" arguments, starting with Trotskyist, and ending with the slogans of the Polish "Solidarity".

According to Russian Sinologist Alexei Gryazev, the dynamics of events in the region after the 1997 year were quite consistent:
“Hong Kong’s economic strength was not shaken by mainland China. It was preceded by the jurisdiction of the PRC in this area since the 1 July 1997 region, the Sino-British declaration of 18 December 1984 signed in Beijing by the prime ministers of both countries - Zhao Ziyang and Margaret Thatcher.”


Hong Kong. Deng Xiaoping's main mistake

The British "iron lady" exchanged signatures with a Chinese colleague with a light hand Deng Xiaoping, the actual successor to Chairman Mao

The territory of Hong Kong received, as you know, the official status of the "Special Administrative Region of Hong Kong". With the official guarantee of Beijing to maintain financial and economic autonomy there for 50 years. However, "the British flags were replaced by Chinese, and the Scottish Guards by the troops of the People's Liberation Army of China."

However, no matter how hard they tried in Hong Kong to maintain "political freedoms at the same level, a conflict between two completely different systems was inevitable. Because" then there are two completely different people with a completely different way of life, political views, although they are territorially adjacent to each other. "

In short, the principle of "One country - two systems" served Beijing poorly. The convergence of socialism into capitalism and vice versa is always more reliable within the framework of a single state.

Incidentally, this is precisely what is testified, for example, by the not so long-standing "experience" of Poland. There, as you know, back in the second half of the 70-s, when even the security agencies did not know about Solidarity, the ports of Gdansk and Gdynia with adjacent areas were declared special port economic zones.

It was a capitalist, in fact, enclave disguised either as self-financing or as a zone of cooperative movement, with a customs and overall economic regime that was significantly different from the general Polish one. But it was in that region that the notorious Solidarity movement arose, which subsequently eliminated the power of the Polish Communist Party.
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  1. +7
    2 December 2019 15: 14
    The People's Republic of China, in essence, has been held hostage by its own political and ideological pragmatism.

    Pragmatism, pragmatism, strife ....
    And there are only two exits ..... either maid - D - down to the full, or Tiananmen!
    1. +5
      2 December 2019 15: 17
      The principle "One country - two systems" ...... - both systems are capitalist, just one with an oriental flavor, and the other with a western flavor ...
      1. +2
        2 December 2019 17: 09
        Quote: Nasr
        The principle "One country - two systems" ...... - both systems are capitalist, just one with an oriental flavor, and the other with a western flavor ...

        Principle - If you do not immediately grab it, solder it tightly, there will always be someone who will try to chop off !!! -
      2. +3
        2 December 2019 20: 06
        A very correct remark about two capitalist systems, but in a different "manner" - "eastern" and "western". In fact, even Mr. Mao said that he sees the communist system in the form of "fair distribution" according to ..... the hierarchy in society, according to the principle ..... the existing anthill. Ants in general were Mao's "favorite" creatures of nature, he always admired the arrangement of their anthill colonies and considered them a model for creating the future socio-economic organization of society.
      3. -1
        3 December 2019 08: 38
        Quote: Nasr
        The principle "One country - two systems" ...... - both systems are capitalist, just one with an oriental flavor, and the other with a western flavor ...

        There is a debate about political systems, not economic ones.
    2. +3
      2 December 2019 20: 18
      Quote: rocket757
      And there are only two exits ..... either maid - D - down to the full, or Tiananmen!

      zutswang turns
      1. +1
        2 December 2019 20: 30
        I watched the film for a long time, it seems "The Eastern Box" was called. Here it is a box, everything is clear, I lifted the lid ... and there is the next box with a lid!
        How many of them are there, you don’t know in advance.
        Events are happening, but we just "admire" from the side ... we can still guess!
        1. +3
          2 December 2019 20: 34
          Quote: rocket757
          Events are happening, but we just "admire" from the side ... we can still guess!

          in our situation, it’s better to enjoy these events from outside than to be involved or guilty
          1. +3
            2 December 2019 21: 06
            Quote: Overlock
            in our situation, it’s better to enjoy these events from outside than to be involved or guilty

            We are in a normal position ... of permanent dissatisfaction! It is often found in the world and is not the cause of anything, as a rule.
    3. -1
      2 December 2019 20: 56
      Surrenders to mine, sho gayropeytsy and theirs Merkan comrades, miscalculated a little, the PRC is not the country with which you can play your "crooks". Narrow-film ones will crush it easily, so in vain the "Hong Kong" shitcrats got involved in these fornication. They will remain extreme at this celebration of life.
      1. +1
        2 December 2019 21: 14
        People themselves can live in illusions ... and the illusion that abroad will help them is extremely dangerous.
        1. 0
          3 December 2019 08: 42
          Quote: rocket757
          the illusion that abroad will help them is extremely dangerous.

          You are absolutely right. It is especially strange to see such illusions in Syangan, which was betrayed by the conditional West literally in the memory of the current adult generation.

          On the other hand, the West is the West, but it is the 50-year-old Hong Kong people who are the very people who chose slavery for themselves and their children. Naturally, no one wants to focus on this topic.
          1. +1
            3 December 2019 08: 44
            Quote: Octopus
            Naturally, no one wants to focus on this topic.

            They know there and do not sharpen!
            And are we directly, directly, objectively able to reason from here?
  2. +9
    2 December 2019 15: 18
    Thank God, even though no one here began to look for traces of the State Department and Maidan !!!
    1. +4
      2 December 2019 15: 21
      And look for horseradish there? !!! Have you read all about the 1997 pact?
      According to Article 5, "the socialist system and politics should not be practiced in Hong Kong, and the previous capitalist system and way of life should remain unchanged for 50 years." Also, China undertakes not to change the Basic Law for 50 years and not to adopt amendments that would violate the basic principles of the law such as citizenship, private property, supreme justice, free press, etc.

      Or didn’t you hear the statement of the Chinese ambassador to the Russian Federation?
      Chinese Ambassador to Russia Zhang Hanhui said that "Ukrainian elements" have appeared in Hong Kong who are coming to the country to share their protest experience.
      "It seems that they (Ukrainians. - Ed. Note) travel to pass on their experience to Hong Kongers. And they say:" We want to live like the Ukrainians. "See how funny? , - quotes the diplomat "Komsomolskaya Pravda".
      The ambassador stressed that the separatist goals of the protesters are unattainable. "But it is possible to guarantee life at the level of Ukrainians," he summed up.
      1. +2
        2 December 2019 15: 24
        I heard. And I think this statement about dill is a weak attempt to justify its failed policy. Or do you really believe that the arrival of even a few dozen in a million-strong city will be able to initiate a revolution ?!
        1. +5
          2 December 2019 16: 12
          How many staff instructors were on the Maidan? It’s easy to pass on the experience. And there is a fifth column. Or do you think that the ambassador spoke about tourists? And they came to Hong Kong to collect Polish apples? But there is NO policy failure there - there simply compliance with the signed agreements. Well, they’re not used to living there in the Wild Field and by concepts, and not by law
          1. +1
            3 December 2019 00: 39
            Again, the United States took advantage of the situation but the authorities themselves made mistakes and increased people's discontent
      2. +6
        2 December 2019 20: 22
        Quote: RWMos
        Or didn’t you hear the statement of the Chinese ambassador to the Russian Federation?
        Chinese Ambassador to Russia Zhang Hanhui said that "Ukrainian elements" have appeared in Hong Kong who are coming to the country to share their protest experience.
        "It seems that they (Ukrainians. - Ed. Note) travel to pass on their experience to Hong Kongers. And they say:" We want to live like the Ukrainians. "See how funny? , - quotes the diplomat "Komsomolskaya Pravda".
        The ambassador stressed that the separatist goals of the protesters are unattainable. "But it is possible to guarantee life at the level of Ukrainians," he summed up.

        want to say that Ukrainians have become a driving revolutionary force in the world? laughing
        I think this is a very strong exaggeration. After all, how pleasant it is to explain the failures of one's own work by the influence of lunatics or universal magnetism laughing
        1. -3
          3 December 2019 08: 45
          Quote: Overlock
          Ukrainians became the driving revolutionary force in the world?

          Ukrainians are Jews of the XNUMXst century.
    2. +6
      2 December 2019 15: 22
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      even though no one here began to look for traces of the State Department and Maidan

      Beijing is unlikely to come to terms with the "Taiwanization" of Hong Kong and has already officially accused the United States and Great Britain of actions to escalate the anti-Chinese vector in the political crisis in Hong Kong
    3. +10
      2 December 2019 15: 27
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Thank God, even though no one here began to look for traces of the State Department and Maidan !!!

      Yes, no one is looking for traces of the State Department and the Maidan ... people go to "their own money" to support the Gongong brothers ... wassat


      1. -2
        2 December 2019 15: 31
        Right! Here they are two Darth Vader! Black geniuses of all color revolutions of the globe! And some kind of small crowd against their mighty backdrop ... So ... A couple of million ....
        And the fact that the Chinese government blamed the Americans ... Well, do not blame yourself beloved and immaculate! After all, the State Department passed a law on deportation to mainland China!
        1. +6
          2 December 2019 15: 34
          the motives of dissatisfaction are not important, the main thing is that it would be more destructive ... Do not hesitate, in the event of a "revolutionary situation", such guys will come to our cities, and many more and not only from Ukraine, since this process will be centralized !!! And these guys will quickly teach you how to "shake" the crowd, not the subject of cocktails, boulders, and further in ascending order ... will the revolutionary aborigines, who hate the current government, like it later? I don't think ...
        2. +2
          2 December 2019 18: 37
          Believe in the spontaneity of these events? belay
          1. -1
            3 December 2019 00: 41
            Yes, they are spontaneous because Hong Kong has complete self-government for many more years to come under the agreement and the deportation law violated it, which did not suit local
            1. +2
              3 December 2019 08: 48
              Quote: Kronos
              the law on deportation violated him, which did not suit local

              Everything is more complicated there. Not even 25 years had passed before the Hong Kong people suddenly learned that the English colony and the Chinese colony were not the same thing. So now the Protestants are demanding precisely changes to the system that was under the British: the transition from colonial administration to democracy. China, of course, does not like this, with democracy it is worth starting - and off we go.
      2. +3
        2 December 2019 15: 41
        Indeed, there is no need to look ....... not without reason Trump started a trade war with the Chinas, an excellent cover for the color revolution .... Do not forget, mattresses just do NOTHING !!
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. 0
        2 December 2019 19: 39
        Yeah, like in Bolivia))
      5. 0
        2 December 2019 20: 29
        Quote: Nasr
        .... people go to "their blood" to support the Gongong brothers ..

        want to say that a million rebels raised to their feet even a hundred banderlogs? Or did Hong Kong residents sit at home, and millions of banderlogs raged for them?
    4. -1
      4 December 2019 11: 01
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Thank God, even though no one here began to look for traces of the State Department and Maidan

      By the way, the number of "redskins" and their leaders decreased not without the participation of the notorious State Department (at one time). Change the "mohawk" for a sedge ... wink
  3. +5
    2 December 2019 15: 32
    On the one hand, I do not understand why the Chinese authorities are showing "softness" towards the protesters. On the other hand, if a piece suddenly "falls off" from China, it will weaken China both politically and economically. And I'm not sure that we need a strong China on our borders. Cynical, of course, but ... Something like that ...
    1. +3
      2 December 2019 18: 40
      But I’m not sure that we need a strong China on our borders.

      Why does China need a strong Russia on its borders?
      1. +2
        2 December 2019 20: 14
        Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
        Why does China need a strong Russia on its borders?

        Did I wonder what China needs?
        1. -1
          2 December 2019 22: 36
          But I’m not sure that we need a strong China on our borders.
          Did I wonder what China needs?

          This follows from the question! hi
      2. 0
        3 December 2019 10: 18
        Then, that Russia does not threaten China, and the borders pass through uninhabited territories.
  4. +8
    2 December 2019 15: 35
    Why does China need a second Taiwan?

    And why does Russia have problems, the internal problems of China. Interestingly, these one and a half billion neighbors are also vividly interested in the situation in Crimea? They care about the state of affairs in the former Soviet republics ...
    With all due respect to the achievements of the Chinese people, to the pace of development of their economy, I want to remind you that the Russian and Chinese mentality is completely different. And fifty years ago it was:

    Therefore (only therefore) I will never fully trust the Chinese. I saw them at arm's length in the seventies ... I looked at them in the eighties ...

    I talked with them in the 2000s ... There is no openness, peace, peace of mind ... I do not perceive them as comrades ... Intuitively I feel a hidden threat, aggression ...
    Some kind of persistent arrogance, importunity is striking ... I just can't understand, they decided that Siberia belongs to them, and we are "worthless" stuck in it?
    With representatives of other nationalities, no such associations arise ...
    But. Here, after all, someone - a watermelon, someone - a pig cartil ... hi
    1. +5
      2 December 2019 15: 44
      The fact that China helped the Mujahideen in the fight against the USSR until 1989 speaks volumes ...
      For us, the experience of the confrontation, the methods of struggle, the possible scenarios and the sequence of events (they are not so numerous) are rather interesting ... so to speak, it is better to learn from the mistakes of others ...
      our country may also be expected by the Maidan events .. against the backdrop of elections, dissatisfaction with the current government and so on, moreover, many (even from the VO website) would love to go out on the street to leave pebbles to the National Guard ....

      so that the relevant services of our country should closely monitor the development of events
    2. 0
      2 December 2019 16: 11
      The Chinese, first of all, are pathological nationalists. Hence and dance.
      1. 0
        2 December 2019 19: 31
        Quote: AU Ivanov.
        The Chinese, first of all, are pathological nationalists. Hence and dance.

        How many nationalities in China are in the know? laughing
        1. -1
          2 December 2019 19: 38
          Han Chinese make up the vast majority: over 90%. I’m talking about them, other nationalities can be left out of the brackets.
          1. -1
            2 December 2019 19: 42
            Quote: AU Ivanov.
            Han Chinese make up the vast majority: over 90%. I’m talking about them, other nationalities can be left out of the brackets.

            Russian in the union was also like that. So you can’t leave anyone behind the brackets.
            1. -1
              2 December 2019 20: 08
              Russian in the Union for 1990 was only 51%.
              1. +1
                3 December 2019 10: 16
                Well, that's why he broke up. Although if you consider the Little Russians and Belarusians, then 2/3 of ethnic Russians should have been typed.
              2. 0
                3 December 2019 15: 45
                Quote: AU Ivanov.
                Russian in the Union for 1990 was only 51%.

                Yeah, well. RSFSR, Ukrainian SSR, BSSR - this is all Russia, as you don’t call us - one genes, one history, one culture. Plus, how many of us were in Kazakhstan and other republics? In total, not 51%.
  5. +5
    2 December 2019 15: 47
    Before his death, Deng Xiaoping warned that "there will be people who use Hong Kong as a base to challenge Chinese socialism" ...
  6. -2
    2 December 2019 16: 10
    I would like to believe that Hong Kong will not only survive, but will indeed be able to separate. Because other normal cities like Shanghai will follow after him - the entire developed coast. Left without coastal support, China will sharply become poorer and weaker, which the occupied Tibet will certainly take advantage of. And Uyghuria. In general, I hope that the victory of Hong Kong will be the beginning of the collapse worse than the Soviet one and this will be fair. China must be poor and backward.
    1. +9
      2 December 2019 16: 36
      Quote: Basarev
      In general, I hope that the victory of Hong Kong will be the beginning of the collapse worse than the Soviet one and this will be fair. China must be poor and backward.
      You are a real democrat, standing ovation !!! good lol
    2. +3
      2 December 2019 17: 39
      Here, too, somehow the Chinese problems of lacrimation do not cause. Absolutely.
      Does Hong Kong want to sail? A tailwind to the fifth point.
      What specific benefits do we have from tea parties? And what is the matter of their stability and well-being?
      And, well, yes, the Power of Siberia was opened today ... okay, let them pay on time for sucked from our bowels
      1. 0
        3 December 2019 10: 15
        Unlike those for whom they are crying, China pays, and with normal money. If China is doing well, then it pays us, if China is doing badly. Well, let’s keep the gas for ourselves, or sell it to someone else, a good thing will not be lost.
    3. +1
      2 December 2019 19: 36
      Quote: Basarev
      I would like to believe that Hong Kong will not only survive, but will indeed be able to separate. Because other normal cities like Shanghai will follow after him - the entire developed coast. Left without coastal support, China will sharply become poorer and weaker, which the occupied Tibet will certainly take advantage of. And Uyghuria. In general, I hope that the victory of Hong Kong will be the beginning of the collapse worse than the Soviet one and this will be fair. China must be poor and backward.

      The principle will be abolished. One country - 2 systems, this is not far off. And kapets to Hong Kong, followed by Taiwan. Well, Uigurs will simply be taught to live according to the laws of the country.
      1. -4
        2 December 2019 19: 54
        I’m not so sure about that. Hong Kong is a donor region, mainland China is just a hole in the budget for it. That is, without China, Hong Kong will live perfectly. But China risks bending without such a breadwinner. So it would be better if Beijing did not buzz and do what it is told.
        1. +4
          3 December 2019 10: 13
          Do not write nonsense, Hong Kong without China in the world does not need anyone for nothing. So Hong Kong just wants to be near big China and weld up without giving anything in return. Like the same ex. USSR with its gas pipe. In principle, China will survive the loss of Hong Kong, as Russia is experiencing the prod. breaks with ex. USSR. It will simply incur some costs for the restoration of ties; the world without China now cannot.

          But we, of course, would be better if Hong Kong separated. But it’s better to have 10 small Sinas in general, and instead of the USA alone, 2 Canada, or even 2 Mexico and 2 Canada.
          1. -2
            3 December 2019 12: 12
            Not quite right. Hong Kong is now one of the strongholds of capitalism, one of the key pillars of the current world order. It is critically important for the world economy in and of itself; mainland China is only ballast. Everyone in the world will only win if China disappears, collapses irreparably. But Hong Kong is important, it must be preserved at any cost unscathed.
            1. +1
              3 December 2019 12: 18
              Mainland China produces all the goods sold through Hong Kong. Do not need a tap in the house if there is no running water.
              1. -3
                3 December 2019 12: 38
                The product now does not mean anything, only finance has weight. But in finance, Hong Kong is equivalent to all of mainland China.
      2. 0
        3 December 2019 08: 52
        Quote: Doliva63
        kapets to Hong Kong, and after him

        And hello after him, nuclear Taiwan, South Korea and Japan ..
        1. 0
          3 December 2019 16: 38
          Quote: Octopus
          Quote: Doliva63
          kapets to Hong Kong, and after him

          And hello after him, nuclear Taiwan, South Korea and Japan ..

          To put it mildly, it’s far from a fact if I understood you correctly.
          1. 0
            3 December 2019 18: 28
            Quote: Doliva63
            To put it mildly, far from a fact

            What Taiwan will arm itself with, and the other two behind it?
    4. +1
      3 December 2019 08: 59
      Quote: Basarev
      I would like to believe that Hong Kong will not only survive, but will indeed be able to separate.

      It is unlikely. The best way to escape from prison is to not get into it. It was necessary to rebel in the 90s, against Britain, where the chances of independence were close to 100%. I don’t remember that at least someone in the early 90s suggested introducing a call like Singapore and giving out weapons to the population, although in the 89th China clearly showed Hong Kong what was waiting for it.

      As for now, I hear a lot about "protests", but I don't hear anything about street fighting with heavy weapons, even as a question. While the path to freedom goes a) through a civil war b) does not imply the liberation of Hong Kong specifically, but the destruction of the rebel government in Beijing.

      I do not believe that there are enough people in China who are willing to pay this price for freedom. Now is not the XNUMXth century.
  7. +2
    2 December 2019 16: 12
    How everything is running! For anyone interested in this topic, I recommend reading Ruslan Karmanov or listening to an ozvedopros with him.
    1. -2
      3 December 2019 00: 46
      Ruslan Karmanov cunning guard with a superficial knowledge of the issue
  8. +1
    2 December 2019 16: 15
    China will find a compromise with Hong Kong in spite of ideological differences, business and nothing personal ...
  9. +3
    2 December 2019 16: 33
    Authors pump up, how much in vain.
    Local councils are like this ... culture, ecology and self-government .. But the really significant body in Hong Kong is the Committee for the Election of the Chief Minister of the Hong Kong Administration. The committee is made up of Hong Kong's pro-Chinese elite. It is these worthy and respected people who determine the vector of development. They are so "intertwined" with big Beijing economically that the anti-Chinese policy will turn into a collapse for them.
    So that the Maidan does not threaten them. And further. Not only Gokong absorbs something from Beijing, but also Beijing from Hong Kong. This is a mutual process and by the middle of the century, the PRC will not be the same as it is now.
    1. 0
      2 December 2019 21: 15
      Candidates for this Committee are largely elected by local councils.
      1. +2
        2 December 2019 22: 03
        The committee consists of 1.200 electors. The district councils have as many as 119 seats! And the necessary majority in any case will be in Beijing, maybe. it is the necessary majority stupidly appointed. So the real power remains with the "red cowards".
        What these elections showed is that Democrats are good at organizing their electorate for youth protest. But for this to really shake the Hong Kong system, it is not enough. China scrolls huge doughs, and pours in through this hole and the "big Hong Kong uncles" are happy with everything.
        So that people don’t bother much --- they can go on social indulgences of a cosmetic nature, feed the leaders, well, and much more will be done there to make the order unshakable.
    2. 0
      3 December 2019 09: 05
      Quote: Thunderbolt
      It is these worthy and respected people who determine the vector of development.

      You are absolutely right. So far, these worthy and respected people have not been outweighed on poles, like the Quisling government in due time, all this booze is about nothing.
      Quote: Thunderbolt
      by the middle of the century, the PRC will not be like it is now.

      Judging by what Xi is doing, China will be much worse than it is now.
  10. -3
    2 December 2019 16: 41
    China has already answered Hong Kong. Dramatically, and to those who need it - the American authorities!
    And this is much more effective than talking with the "opposition", chasing "umbrellas" and other pseudo-scientific shamanism.
    And this is a blow to "the center of decision-making", about which we all warn ... we warn ... we warn ...
    I wonder if the Chinese version has a saying about the 1001st Chinese warning? And it is about whom, not about the Chinese? As the Germans call our "Prussians" "Russian cockroaches" ...
  11. 0
    2 December 2019 17: 03
    All this nonsense has no meaning. The Chinese succumbed to eternal eastern weakness - meaningless revenge that goes beyond any rational behavior. If they didn’t try to get extradition from Hong Kong for all those who had fled from China for various reasons, so far everything would have been quiet in Hong Kong. And certainly the ingenious Dan is not to blame for the stupid mistake made by the current Chinese authorities. .
  12. -4
    2 December 2019 17: 06
    Most likely, it will not be the Taiwanization of Hong Kong, but the Hong Kongization of China. In the DPRK, the PRC will not be able to turn, will not give the countries of the West, whose corporations and financial institutions have a huge interest in China, and cannot lose their capital. The Chinese also felt the taste of money, the taste of freedom that money gives; an increasing number of young Chinese after graduating from universities in the United States and Europe do not want to blindly obey the CCP functionaries, feel the restrictions determined by the communist ideology and the rigid hierarchy and clannishness established in Chinese. society. Surely in large cities entire sections of the population think that "enough to feed the village or the province." In the countryside, on the contrary, the tendencies of a return to the Maoist principles of governing the country, the destruction of capitalism, the elimination of property inequality, the elimination of the "Pale of Settlement", when cities are separated from the countryside by a rigid passport control regime, are strengthening. In a word, Hong Kong is just a detonator for organizing a social explosion in China, or at least organizing a catastrophic "restructuring" of Chinese society, in which there are very severe contradictions that cannot be resolved under the existing system.
    Unfortunately, our "educational" Sinologists are only Sinologists. And, as it seems to me, the moment has come again ... the moment has fallen when it was necessary to firmly say, first of all, to the Chinese themselves about the impending danger from the West. The very same Chinese elite, which now governs the country, so believed in the diligence of the people, the unity of the nation and the infallibility of their philosophy that they are not able to see the beam in their own eyes. Or, even worse, following the example of the Communist Party leader, the CPSU is leading to a deliberate change in the system in China. The East is a delicate matter, but interfering in the processes that began in China on the side of this very China is also a dangerous business. In the event of social unrest or civil war, a population of 10 billion can squeeze out 15-XNUMX million refugees, who will inevitably rush into the regions of Russia bordering China.
    1. +4
      2 December 2019 19: 06
      they don’t want to blindly obey the functionaries of the CCP, to feel the limitations determined by the communist ideology and the rigid hierarchy and clan established in Chinese society.

      Are there any restrictions in China? Well, they sold one-room apartments in China at six squares each, and they even sold them out. Then they closed the bench. According to Chinese laws, an apartment cannot be less than 22 squares. Is this kind of against such restrictions in China? What about ideology in China? Promote the cult of asceticism? But hierarchy and clanism is this only in China? I wonder how life is built in China? The authors of the article would write an article about life and the structure of life in China. By and large, we know very little (or rather nothing) about China. Why is communist ideology worse or better than capitalist? Why don't we say about one religion in one country that this is bad, but about the communist ideology is always bad? But in the capitalist, everything is so good that it’s directly ideal! Although it strews like a house of cards! hi
      1. 0
        2 December 2019 21: 21
        Dear, I will not say 100 percent, but if you lived in a Chinese village, in a city, for example, in Shanghai, you would not be allowed to go without special permission of the party bodies. Do you think this is true or false?
        1. +1
          2 December 2019 22: 32
          I'm afraid that we don’t know much about China. More recently, we were confident in the backwardness of China. But these backward Chinese people overwhelmed us with consumer goods! And these ** backward ** Chinese have flunked us, not we them! Although their market is larger than the Russian one! That's how we lost the loot! And it's ** backward ** Chinese are developing their auto industry and electronics! And the weapons are baked like pies! More recently, we were sure that the Chinese were working for a bowl of rice! It turned out their salary is higher than Russian! State intervention, permission or prohibition, is it good or bad? Here we have removed the state standard specifications. Is it good or bad? Many thought that the GOSTs are stifling and now we are arguing! And flooded! Of the five tons of butter, thirty began to get! Progress? Five tone butter and twenty five tone palm oil is a quality product? If we talk about the Chinese Communist Party as a planning and controlling body, this is certainly a blessing. Although what is the difference between globalization and planning? Only the scale! If there were a planning authority in Russia, we would have already filled the markets of China and India! And what a loot! It is more than oil and gas! Recently I watched a video on the construction of roads in China. The company builds the road at its own expense. Money after construction! First chairs, then money! 25 year warranty! Imagine that the Crimean bridge or the Olympic facilities, or the Vostochny spaceport are being built by our oligarchs at their own expense !? Or are our oligarchs poorer than the Chinese? Here you have the permissions! We are asked for investment, but there is permission! Which is better and more profitable for the country? To ask for money or issue permits? hi
          1. -1
            3 December 2019 04: 02
            Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
            I'm afraid we don’t know much about China
            Not us, but you. lol Those who visit China or are interested in its culture and politics know quite a lot about it. In Primorye, people who have not been to China can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
            Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
            More recently, we were confident in the backwardness of China.
            More recently - when? 30 years ago? Then he was already catching up with the USSR. In the 2000s, he traveled to Harbin, Beijing and was amazed at the pace of road construction, interchanges, skyscrapers, highways and highways. And now, Chinese cities naturally look like something from the future.
            Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
            More recently, we were sure that the Chinese were working for a bowl of rice!
            Not us, but you. Not so long ago. 20 years for sure. I don’t know why you were in such an information vacuum.
            Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
            It turned out their salary is higher than Russian!
            Given the pace of their development, we discussed this already in the middle of the zero, that sn in China will soon catch up and overtake the Russians.
            Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
            State intervention, permission or prohibition, is it good or bad? Here we have removed the state standard specifications. Is it good or bad?
            Everything that the state intervenes with us is bad. This has already become an axiom.
            1. +1
              3 December 2019 10: 07
              You better go to their villages. And according to Chinese statistics, half of the population lives in them. You will be the 17th century.
      2. 0
        2 December 2019 21: 35
        And secondly. Of course, you will not argue that the communist teaching was born in the depths of capitalism. Marx wrote that communism, as a formation, can change capitalism only in its developed phase, in a developed society, where a person first of all cannot live on the principle of "man to man is a wolf." What do we see where communism replaced semi-feudalism, capturing an undeveloped public consciousness with initially true ideas? But we see the collapse after some time of the communist idea in such a society. And this, perhaps, is a trend, and not an unfortunate failure or the result of betrayal, or mistakes in management.
        1. +2
          2 December 2019 22: 48
          But we see the collapse after some time of the communist idea in such a society. And this, perhaps, is a trend, and not an unfortunate failure or the result of betrayal, or mistakes in management.

          The same can be said of capitalism! Where is the development of society under capitalism? But what is interesting! Capitalism makes very good use of the ideas of communism for a narrow group of people! And strangely enough, they do not spit at all from the ideas of socialism and communism! Fulfillment of social guarantees for themselves does not cause rejection at all! The principle of communism, to each according to his needs, is welcome! And pay yourself salaries, bonuses, bonuses! So do not have tales of income from income! Bonuses get even with minuses! And at zeros! Where is the deputy’s salary dependent on the success of his site? Or the dependence of the mayor’s income on the city’s economy? The same Putin, claims the dangers of socialism but enjoys social guarantees! If you stoke for capitalism, so live on a percentage of the success of the economy! So no! For myself, only socialism and communism are loved !!! angry
    2. -1
      2 December 2019 19: 52
      . And, it seems to me, again ... the moment fell when it was necessary to firmly say first of all to the Chinese themselves about the impending danger from the West


      And this, excuse me, is our problem?
    3. +1
      2 December 2019 21: 18
      There, a policy of accelerated urbanization is being carried out there, the relocation of villagers to cities and the transformation of rural settlements into urban ones are only welcome.
  13. +3
    2 December 2019 17: 37
    Quote: Mikhail3
    If they hadn’t tried to get extradition from Hong Kong for all those who had fled from China for various reasons, everything would have been quiet in Hong Kong so far

    That is, because of what did the extradition law begin, you don’t know? Not even because of China, but because of Taiwan, to whom they wanted to extradite the girl’s killer. But propaganda works wonders.
  14. -4
    2 December 2019 17: 58
    It is also worth noting that, in fact, the Gonglings are a completely different people than the Chinese (Han) and they speak their dialect of Cantones, if they were independent, they would be a language, as happened in the Republic of Ingushetia with regard to the Ukrainian and Belarusian languages. And culturally, they are so different from the Han, like the rest of South China. It’s a pity, of course, that it was not possible to pull out the same section of China as Korea to the north and south, it would be easier for everyone now
  15. +3
    2 December 2019 19: 11
    Russia does not benefit from further strengthening of China is an indisputable fact. Whatever the leadership of the Russian Federation officially declares
  16. 0
    2 December 2019 19: 57
    In the Middle Kingdom, in the late 1970s, Deng Xiaoping's slogan "One country - two systems" was put forward with an eye on Taiwan.

    Beijing is unlikely to come to terms with the "Taiwanization" of Hong Kong



    Listen, why do they need little Hong Kong, such at the price ??

    What for?
    1. 0
      3 December 2019 00: 49
      This is a financial center and not just some kind of city
      1. 0
        3 December 2019 08: 50
        This is a financial center and not just some kind of city


        And yet ... is the game worth the candle?
        Well what for?
        1. +1
          3 December 2019 09: 13
          Quote: Olezhek
          Nevertheless ... is the game worth the candle

          Some kind of strange formulation of the question.
          1. In the 80s, when the conversation began, the volume of Hong Kong's foreign trade was higher than China, and strongly.
          2. The idea of ​​reunification of China there is one of the bonds, and already millennia.
          1. 0
            3 December 2019 09: 46
            .
            The idea of ​​reunification of China there is one of the bonds, and already millennia.


            Is this idea interesting to the Hong Kong people?
            Why put a giant country on the ears because of one city
            if he lives by his very ideas, nothing with the rest of China
            not correlating?
            What for?
            1. +1
              3 December 2019 10: 08
              Quote: Olezhek
              is this idea interesting to the Hong Kong people?

              They bought the Hong Kong, for 25 years everything was quiet.
              Quote: Olezhek
              Why put a giant country on your ears

              This is the Chinese Crimea. One of. Moreover, Khrushchev didn’t give this up, but the imperialist predators pulled out blood directly. Moreover, in the 96th year, this Crimea was many times richer than even the coastal Chinese cities.
  17. ABM
    +1
    2 December 2019 21: 42
    Quote: Basarev
    I’m not so sure about that. Hong Kong is a donor region, mainland China is just a hole in the budget for it. That is, without China, Hong Kong will live perfectly. But China risks bending without such a breadwinner. So it would be better if Beijing did not buzz and do what it is told.


    there are more than a trillion in US bonds, what are you talking about? second economy in the world
  18. 0
    3 December 2019 10: 01
    Well, what’s so, Hong Kong has been sitting on the bow of the worlds for decades, rowing for money, while all foreign policy issues were provided by external forces, now, apparently, China wants the Hong Kong people to share with the poor inner China, it needs to be developed, but in it he still lives half the country, sent conscripts to the Chinese army, which has enough local Chechnya, only Tibet is worth what. Nooo, this is unacceptable, we must continue to sit on autonomy, so that, like a bargain with bargaining. Operations are for us, and how to donate to the common Chinese piggy bank is sorry.

    Well, Chinese communism is far more capitalistic than Russian capitalism. And the billionaires in the EMNIP world are mostly Chinese.
  19. 0
    3 December 2019 18: 36
    Quote: Octopus
    Quote: Doliva63
    To put it mildly, far from a fact

    What Taiwan will arm itself with, and the other two behind it?

    The more Taiwan arms, the easier it will be for China to eat. Is this not obvious to you?
  20. -2
    3 December 2019 21: 22
    Hong Kong and even Maomen are very significant poles for the West, incl. in the context of the PRC. Therefore, the West will most likely seek a situation in which they will try to separate them from the PRC. At the same time, Taiwan's chances for "re-international" recognition in qualification are increasing. Whale. republics. This is where the fault line with the Russian Federation can pass, since the Russian Federation is increasingly using these yuzhnokite. enclaves for entering the world stock markets, investment markets. Therefore, Moscow is unlikely to take unambiguous actions in support of the PRC.
    It was more expedient to declare them "free cities" (like Gdansk, Trieste, Tangier) and systematically, but skillfully lead the case towards unification (as did, for example, Italy and Morocco). Deng Xiaoping was STRATEGICALLY wrong: either capitalism or socialism.
  21. 0
    6 December 2019 12: 05
    A Trojan horse, he is also a Trojan horse in China.

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