“A small discovery in the butt of an arquebus ...”


The author with a wheeled pistol in his hand (right view) in the hall of the Penza Museum of Local Lore. It turned out that it is not heavy at all and is very comfortable to hold, despite the great length.


"Gentlemen, you get involved in a nasty history and you will be riddled with bullets. “My servant and I will treat you with three shots, the same amount you will get from the basement.”
A. Dumas. Three Musketeers"


Military affairs at the turn of the eras. The amazing thing is the life and destiny of man. He once wrote that since his childhood the “Black Muzzle” has been humming, not knowing that this is the anthem of the Italian fascists, and that fate has predetermined for me not only to find out, but also to write an article about it in “VO”! But the most, perhaps, the most amazing event happened on the 28 of November, and ... I’m sitting right now writing about him and I can’t stop wondering him. And it so happened that in the distant Soviet childhood they brought me to our Penza Museum of Local Lore and for the rest of my life it struck me in the heart. And what was there only: a huge skeleton of a mammoth and only a little smaller - a woolly rhino. Illuminated dioramas with species of the Proterozoic, Paleozoic, Mesozoic and Cenozoic era. Triceratops and tyrannosaurus, cavemen stone cave bear ... Soldier Suvorov in full growth! The gun on wheels! Model of the Penza fortress at the time of foundation in the 1663 year! Mauser in a holster, the German assault rifle Sturmgever. In a word, it was possible to walk on it for a long time, but there were just a lot of exhibits in it. Especially for a little boy.


The scheme of the wheel lock device.

But I remember well that I was particularly impressed by the “West European Musket XVII” and the “flintlock pistol”, with a large wheel on the side to the right. It was decorated in a minimal way and therefore looked especially impressive.


The handle and mechanism of the Penza wheel pistol.

Well, then my wife began to work in this museum, and I literally cried and slept there. For the exposition, he made them models of the ships on which the Penzens served: “Potemkin”, “Aurora”, “Oleg” and “Ochakov”, the T-34 tank “Penza Komsomolets”, which was bought with clear money, and the first Soviet tank “ M "..." to the heap. " He worked in their archives and in the library, he remade all the magazines “Soviet Archeology”, all the magazines “The Great War”, the whole “Niva” ... In a word, it was a wonderful time. That's just the gun and the "musket" just then put into the storeroom and I could not hold them in my hands, but I honestly did not try.


The trigger with sponges for clamping pyrite and the lid of the shelf are clearly visible. The lid is moved and the ignition hole is visible. Also on the scroll wheel when enlarging the photograph, the transverse spark-groove is clearly visible.

And so the years passed, but what years there - decades! On "VO" began to go out my materials on arms past eras. I managed to admire the same wheeled pistols (and they are closer to knightly times than shock-flintlocks with a French battery lock!) In the museums of Dresden, Vienna, Paris, Venice and here, just the other day, I remembered that there are weapons “With a wheel” in our Penza Museum of Local Lore. Remembering how reluctantly they reacted to my requests there in recent years, I honestly went there with some apprehension. But it turned out that the leadership there changed and met me there, one might say, just sincerely. They brought both a gun and a gun and provided the opportunity for photography.


View of the gun on the left. By the way, his caliber was 13,5 mm. That is less than that of the Russian pistols of the 1812 war of the year, which was equal to 17,78 mm

It was very strange to hold a cuirassier’s wheeled pistol in their hands with a long barrel and no front sight, that is, obviously the 16th century, when they were shot at almost point blank range from an enemy dressed in armor, which is why he did not need a front sight. But even more surprising was considering the arquebus. It was not a musket, of course, but a light arquebus with a caliber of only 12 mm. First of all, it became obvious that this is not a military weapon. Engraved patterns on the trunk, on the keypad. In addition, the wheel on it was secret, and this was never done on military weapons. And the caliber is too small, such a bullet of a rider dressed in armor cannot be killed. And not every beast can be killed by such a bullet. In addition, the trigger was most likely equipped with a sneller. In any case, it is unlikely that what was found inside the trigger guard could be something else ... True, the springs of the triggers on the pistol and on the arquebus were missing and I could not “click”. Here, apparently, the "competent authorities" tried. The weapon, after all, was it ... But everything else worked properly, that is, the trigger could be opened and closed, and the lid of the ignition hole also worked perfectly. And judging by the design of analogues and their appearance, it could refer either to the end of the XVI, or to the beginning of the XVII century. Well, to be used ... as a target weapon, for entertaining target shooting! And if now dozens of varieties of AR-15 are being produced specifically for such shooting, then why not produce something similar for those who like to shoot at that distant time ?!


View of the keyboard and the trigger. The lid of the shelf covers the ignition hole and the powder shelf.


Keyboard with engraving.


Butt with a characteristic subcutaneous protrusion on the left, trigger, sneller and pencil case cover.

Well, in general, I began to consider the butt, and on it on the right side is a pencil case, closed and held in this position by a latch. I ask the employees: “Have they opened it?” No, they say, we are afraid to break it! Well, I knew how such latches open and where to press to slide its cover. He pressed, pushed, opened, and there, in the recess of the pencil case, several lumps of crumpled paper. And again, paper and paper. But ... that was exactly what bullets should have looked like, which the arrows often wrapped in paper before pushing them into the barrel. And when we unfolded these lumps, they really contained bullets cast with a bullet (they had a slice on them!) From lead, which were oxidized in order.


Open pencil case.


Bullets, and pieces of paper in which they were wrapped.

But the most interesting was one "piece of paper" on which inscriptions in German with all the curls accepted then were preserved! That is, no one has opened this pencil case since the last time they fired from this gun! The shooter put the bullets in a pencil case, wrapping them in advance with pieces of paper that were at hand in order to use them as a wad. He used a part - there was a place left in the pencil case, but he didn’t shoot three bullets and ... forgot that they were there. And then ... then centuries have passed! A ramrod, a repair key, a screwdriver, which should have been tied to a trigger guard by a strap, were lost from the gun. The gun was sold and resold. He was examined by our valiant police and ... could not open this pencil case and find these bullets. Museum workers, and the arquebus came to them somewhere at the end of the 40, either from the funds of the Artillery Museum in Leningrad or from the police confiscation, where she, in turn, got from some landowner estate, also did not pay attention to this pencil case ... I was admiring her as a seven-year-old boy, and now 62 of the year passed, and I finally got her in my arms and found a thing that no one had ever picked up since then. So amazing. Now museum workers want to turn to linguists, specialists in the Middle German language, to try to read at least some of the words written on this piece of paper.


A piece of paper with text in German.

Another small discovery for me was the design of the spark-producing wheel itself. Everywhere it is written that it was notched. And I imagined, but I’m sure that I’m not alone, but everyone who didn’t hold the wheel pistol in their hands, that it had a transverse notch, like a wheel on a modern lighter, that is, it looked like a big fine-toothed gear. And no! In fact, on the wheel (both the gun and the pistol!) Were ... longitudinal grooves, and quite deep. And there were also transverse notches, single (!) Of no more than six on the whole wheel! That is, when you turn the wheel when you press the shutter, it touches about pyrite only once and that’s all! But at the same time it turned out not one sheaf of sparks, but several, according to the number of grooves, or rather protrusions between them with transverse recesses. Pyrite fell into them, pressed by a spring to the wheel and - and so there were sparks that set fire to the powder.


The sight on the barrel was very simple: a visor with a semicircular notch.


But the fly, soldered with tin, alas, could not resist. The faceted barrel itself has eight faces, and to the muzzle end it elegantly expands with a small bell.

That's how historians make their little discoveries and ... rejoice! However, in our Penza Museum of Local Lore there is still a lot of interesting things, so the time has come to write about it ...


Author with a gun. Left view.

PS The administration of the VO site and the author are grateful to the staff of the Penza Museum of Local Lore for the opportunity to explore the artifacts available in their museum and take their pictures.

To be continued ...
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  1. Phil77 12 December 2019 18: 28 New
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    Vyacheslav Olegovich! Ek, you blundered, you could ask a staff coat for some of the earliest times. laughing And then your gun is in tune with the declared time, and * a fat girl * from the current one. But seriously, thanks for the article. I came home from work and gulped it, rrraz! Thank you. From my childhood, I remember running into the Museum of the Soviet Army, fortunately it was not far off. Well, the local exposition you know. Magic and boyish delight !!!
    1. kalibr 12 December 2019 18: 51 New
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      Quote: Phil77
      Ek, you blundered, you could ask a staff coat for some of the earliest times.

      Sergey, what a frock coat? To match the time, I would need first of all a wig with curls to the shoulders, then pricks - a caftan of yellow suede, and a wide collar, but most importantly pants ... from knees and above with bubbles of 3 m per leg. And where could I get it from in Penza?
      1. Phil77 12 December 2019 18: 54 New
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        A wig? Yes, not a problem. A kaftan-kaftan? In a museum. But with pants, yes ... Perplexing! But what a photo it would be.
        1. kalibr 12 December 2019 19: 04 New
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          Quote: Phil77
          Kaftan tunic? In the museum.

          I might have gotten a wig, but such a tunic is not there. But you gave me an interesting idea ... Let's see!
          1. Phil77 12 December 2019 19: 06 New
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            Always at your service, please contact. I can help. hi
          2. Terenin 12 December 2019 20: 25 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: Phil77
            Kaftan tunic? In the museum.

            I might have gotten a wig, but such a tunic is not there. But you gave me an interesting idea ... Let's see!

            It’s not a problem that there is no tunic, I remember 20-25 years ago someone, on a children's TV show (Penza), taught how to make an all-terrain vehicle or a gun from improvised tools, for children winked
            Greetings to fellow countrymen hi
            1. kalibr 13 December 2019 08: 08 New
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              Quote: Terenin
              It’s not a problem that there is no tunic, I remember 20-25 years ago someone, on a children's TV show (Penza), taught how to make an all-terrain vehicle or a gun from improvised tools, for children
              Greetings to fellow countrymen

              Ha! That's because life - met - remembered! And about the gun ... if you remember, then I also shot from it. In the television studio, everyone was nearly deaf!
              1. Terenin 13 December 2019 16: 39 New
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                Quote: kalibr
                Quote: Terenin
                It’s not a problem that there is no tunic, I remember 20-25 years ago someone, on a children's TV show (Penza), taught how to make an all-terrain vehicle or a gun from improvised tools, for children
                Greetings to fellow countrymen

                Ha! That's because life - met - remembered! And about the gun ... if you remember, then I also shot from it. In the television studio, everyone was nearly deaf!

                That's what it means saw and remembered yes Good luck, Vyacheslav! drinks
                1. kalibr 13 December 2019 16: 50 New
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                  Thanks you!
          3. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 21: 15 New
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            A wig is not a problem at all! I will never believe that you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, have no connections in the Penza Drama Theater.
  2. polpot 12 December 2019 18: 30 New
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    Very interesting, thanks.
    1. kalibr 12 December 2019 18: 49 New
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      Glad you liked it. On the 17th there will be a conference for employees in the museum, I’ll go to make a report about a gun and a gun. I looked through a bunch of materials. I learned a lot.
      1. voyaka uh 12 December 2019 21: 31 New
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        I also held in my hands and aimed from such pistols when I was little.
        My mother studied the same course with a famous professor
        archeology (and dissident) by Leo Klein.
        His classmates then gathered in his apartment. He had
        collection of old weapons. I remember pressed the trigger, one old
        a gun, and a piece of manure suddenly fell out of the barrel. Everyone laughed.
        Without thinking twice, I asked for a gun as a gift. Klein answered very seriously
        that he cannot give a valuable gun that shoots with manure. laughing
        That was the end of the matter.
        1. Uncle Izya 12 December 2019 22: 12 New
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          Oh, so you are from Vitebsk
        2. Edward Vashchenko 12 December 2019 22: 31 New
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          Wow, very interestinghi
        3. Solo2503 13 December 2019 20: 42 New
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          This is an hour, not the history department of LSU? Did Klein seem to have passed away recently? Did Klesov argue with him?
  3. kalibr 12 December 2019 18: 39 New
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    Quote: Phil77
    I remember running into the museum of the Soviet Army

    I remember how I went to the storerooms ... that's where ... great!
    1. Phil77 12 December 2019 18: 51 New
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      And most of all (I understood then!) I liked the horizontal showcase with iron crosses poured! Remember? I'm afraid to make a mistake, but there was still some kind of weapon. Well, and certainly the open area of ​​the museum with an armored train and so on and so forth.
      1. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 21: 19 New
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        And I was in the CA museum only once. In the 88th. Alas. request crying
    2. Catfish 13 December 2019 15: 54 New
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      Hi, Vyacheslav! And when were you there? Did you communicate with Plotnikov? There was another guy there, Andrei, I don’t remember his last name. I took my son to them there, after all, there is much more modern and diverse iron there than in the State Historical Museum.
  4. bubalik 12 December 2019 18: 44 New
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    ,,, a fascinating story happened to you good
    1. kalibr 12 December 2019 18: 53 New
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      Wrong word, Sergey! In general, it seems to me that everything in life is predetermined, only now we do not know about it!
      1. bubalik 12 December 2019 19: 00 New
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        In general, it seems to me that everything in life is predetermined
        ,,, but everything will go as the decision will be made by the person himself, at key points in his life's journey.
        1. Phil77 12 December 2019 19: 09 New
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          Something in tune with O'Henry? "The roads we choose," no? good
          1. bubalik 12 December 2019 19: 28 New
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            ,,, no, I myself think so or maybe I read what , something like that, but I pass it off as my conclusions request
            1. Phil77 12 December 2019 19: 29 New
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              And by the way about that / in PM /? fellow
        2. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 19: 44 New
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          Quote: bubalik
          everything will go as it chooses the man himself,

          Oh, there is a philosophical debate on the topic of predestination and free will ... smile
          But from a purely materialistic point of view, I will defend the point of view according to which “being determines consciousness” and the decisions we make are the result of summing up the psychological attitudes we have received from society, the instincts that we have developed in the process of our biological species’s existence and a conscious analysis of the current situation, individual for each.
          I will add that all decisions made by us are obviously wrong, since we never have the fullness of the picture of the world around us, and at the same time, they are only right because they were made and therefore other decisions could not be made.
          How do you like that? smile
          1. bubalik 12 December 2019 19: 56 New
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            the decisions we make are the result of summing up the psychological attitudes we have received from society, the instincts we have developed in the process of our biological species and a conscious analysis of the situation that is individual for everyone.
            ,,, how are the decisions that come like flash, impulse, insight called intuition? decisions made contrary to logic and experience. And subsequently being the most faithful?
            1. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 20: 09 New
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              Intuition is the product of just instincts and grafted attitudes, i.e. when using intuition, the brain takes minimal part in decision making. In folklore, this process is reflected in the apt expression "jo (n) oh smell." smile
              Quote: bubalik
              most faithful

              It is impossible to evaluate the degree of fidelity of a particular decision, since it is impossible to calculate all the consequences of an alternative solution. Butterfly Effect. smile
              Sergey, if anything, I’m not serious, just in the evening my mood jumped up sharply, I want to flood. smile
              1. bubalik 12 December 2019 20: 14 New
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                it is impossible to calculate all the consequences of an alternative solution. Butterfly Effect.
                ,,, in this case, any decision made at the moment is correct fellow
                1. Phil77 12 December 2019 20: 25 New
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                  Oh friends. It’s good with you, but ... To all my shortcomings I’m also a fan. It’s necessary to cheer for Krasnodar. See you! hi hi hi
                  1. sergo1914 12 December 2019 22: 55 New
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                    Quote: Phil77
                    Oh friends. It’s good with you, but ... To all my shortcomings I’m also a fan. It’s necessary to cheer for Krasnodar. See you! hi hi hi


                    One for all and all for one. Week of solidarity.
                    1. Phil77 13 December 2019 07: 11 New
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                      Quote: sergo1914
                      One for all and all for one. Week of solidarity.

                      Lost, 0-3. But the native CSKA finally pleased 1-0. Good luck and have a nice day! good
                2. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 20: 37 New
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                  Quote: bubalik
                  any decision made at the moment is correct

                  ... and false at the same time, because objectively we can always find a more correct solution.
                  And then, what does “true” mean?
                  From the point of view of the ant, which someone accidentally crushed, the decision of a person to go somewhere will be fundamentally wrong, as well as from the point of view of the whole anthill.
                  Only such a solution that takes into account and minimizes all the negative consequences in all accessible and inaccessible scales of perception, from the universal to the microscopic, can be recognized as absolutely true.
                  This, in principle, cannot be, therefore, all decisions made by definition are incorrect.
                  And at the same time they are only true, since immediately after their adoption they become an uncontested part of objective reality.
                  smile
                  1. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 21: 41 New
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                    This is if we assume that objective reality has no alternative.
                  2. IS-80_RVGK2 13 December 2019 01: 00 New
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                    Quote: Trilobite Master
                    Only such a solution that takes into account and minimizes all the negative consequences in all accessible and inaccessible scales of perception, from the universal to the microscopic, can be recognized as absolutely true.

                    And why did you decide that this is the right decision and also the right one absolutely?
                  3. kalibr 13 December 2019 19: 26 New
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                    Quote: Trilobite Master
                    Only such a solution that takes into account and minimizes all the negative consequences in all accessible and inaccessible scales of perception, from the universal to the microscopic, can be recognized as absolutely true.
                    This, in principle, cannot be, therefore, all decisions made by definition are incorrect.
                    And at the same time they are only true, since immediately after their adoption they become an uncontested part of objective reality.

                    How well said!
                    1. Trilobite Master 13 December 2019 19: 52 New
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                      Good evening, Vyacheslav Olegovich.
                      We guys got a little crazy yesterday, sorry generously. repeat
                      1. Phil77 13 December 2019 20: 04 New
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                        And let me congratulate you on the title of “Best Commentator” !!! It’s already cast in gold / and at first I didn’t understand why the letters are not of the usual color /. Accept my congratulations! hi hi hi
                      2. kalibr 13 December 2019 21: 18 New
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                        Madness is good! Nothing human is alien to me! It’s even interesting ...
                      3. Phil77 14 December 2019 12: 38 New
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                        Quote: kalibr
                        Madness is good!

                        "A little bartender!" laughing
            2. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 21: 34 New
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              Of course it’s impossible, because it’s impossible to assess the consequences of the presence of a “tank around the corner” laughing
              1. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 21: 51 New
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                Anton, welcome.
                You have come, but I have to go. request
                How unfair this world is ... recourse
                1. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 22: 11 New
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                  "Post passed - post accepted" soldier laughing
          2. Phil77 12 December 2019 20: 16 New
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            Quote: bubalik
            decisions made contrary to logic and experience.

            But do we make a lot of such decisions? As a rule, this is an accident. Why? Why? But I want everything! Babakh! But it turned out! And as a rule, such decisions are made in extreme situations. But in everyday life? We think, think, and advise.
        3. Phil77 12 December 2019 20: 17 New
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          And this is because they are accepted and it is no longer possible to replay! Therefore, the decision that we made at this moment is correct.
          1. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 20: 39 New
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            Quote: Phil77
            they are accepted and it is no longer possible to replay

            That's it, and I'm talking about ...
            1. Pane Kohanku 12 December 2019 20: 55 New
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              That's it, and I'm talking about ...

              Iron argument for all occasions, by the way! For peace of mind ... hi
              1. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 21: 12 New
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                Quote: Pan Kohanku
                For peace of mind ...

                What I with pleasure and wish all those present. smile
        4. Hantengri 12 December 2019 20: 20 New
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          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Oh, there is a philosophical debate on the topic of predestination and free will ...

          "And the two did not come together in fear,
          And in all conscience - the wheels drove away a dream.
          One said: Our life is a train.
          Another said: apron. "(C) laughing
          1. bubalik 12 December 2019 20: 26 New
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            I’ve sworn so many times that I’ll spit on fate,
            But sorry for her, hungry - caresses, trembles.
            And I began, as far as possible, to feed Fortuna:
            When she is satisfied, she always sleeps for a long time.
            (C)
            1. Hantengri 12 December 2019 20: 38 New
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              "We are the source of fun and sorrow mine.
              We are a repository of filth and a pure spring.
              Man, as if in a mirror, is a world with many faces.
              It is insignificant - and it is immensely great! "(C)
              1. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 21: 50 New
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                Oh comrades! I watch our favorite (with Corsair) toy lives and thrives without the participation of the "founding fathers? I can only welcome !!!
                1. bubalik 12 December 2019 22: 07 New
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                  , hinting at "copyright" no
                  1. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 22: 16 New
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                    And then !!! Look "ACDC" already 25 years old as a "royalty" live! laughing
                    1. bubalik 12 December 2019 22: 24 New
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                      ,,, no arguing against the tank tongue
                  2. Phil77 13 December 2019 07: 13 New
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                    Quote: bubalik
                    , hinting at "copyright"

                    And deductions! good laughing hi
                2. Korsar4 12 December 2019 22: 07 New
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                  "Guess who's the best domestic tamer in the world?" (with).
                  1. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 22: 13 New
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                    "Of course, Vasya! A dude from Moscow!" (C)
                    1. bubalik 12 December 2019 22: 21 New
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                      Moscow hits with a sock, and Peter Boka turned up.(C)
                    2. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 22: 41 New
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                      "I want to sing my artisan city" (c)
                    3. bubalik 12 December 2019 22: 46 New
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                      City over the river in spring greenery
                      Glows with lights from night to dawn.
                      Pouring over Samara
                      Guitar songs.
                      And the Volga guys sing the Volga.
                      drinks
                    4. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 22: 50 New
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                      No problem!
                      "There are so many golden lights on the streets of Saratov" (c)
                    5. Korsar4 12 December 2019 22: 53 New
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                      "Broad is my own country.
                      There are a lot of forests, fields and rivers in it "(c).
                    6. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 22: 56 New
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                      "To meet the morning dawn,
                      By the hangar, by the hangar "(c)
                  2. bubalik 12 December 2019 22: 59 New
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                    Under the city of Gorky, where the clear dawn,
                    In a working village, a friend lives ...
                  3. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 23: 07 New
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                    "From far away,
                    Flowing Volga River "(c)
              2. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 22: 59 New
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                "Daddy, what a bad bite you have! Well, Vanka is fighting his throat from a settlement!" (with)
              3. Korsar4 12 December 2019 23: 07 New
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                “When I spoke at my club, I heard in the board” (c).
              4. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 23: 15 New
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                "And what’s Vasya’s squeaky voice,
                So for that we crowded together in a heap "(c)
          2. Phil77 13 December 2019 07: 16 New
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            Ah Samara town
            restless me
            restless me
            reassure me.
        5. Phil77 13 December 2019 07: 14 New
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          If you knew
          how dear to me
          Moscow Nights....
        6. Mordvin 3 13 December 2019 07: 26 New
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          Quote: Phil77
          how dear to me
          Moscow Nights....

          And I'm stoned
          On the side street
          And smiling on the go
          I bite a bun ... wink
  • Pane Kohanku 12 December 2019 20: 53 New
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    Fortune is a lottery, in life in both cinema and cinema! drinks (m / f "Treasure Island")
    I read it with pleasure. It is written with warmth. yes According to personal feelings, small local history museums are often much more interesting than huge ones of federal significance. I myself enjoy traveling to museums of those cities where I visit. Energy is special! soldier good
    1. bubalik 12 December 2019 20: 58 New
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      It is written with warmth
      ,, but I read, well, I'm waiting for an intriguing denouement, in the style of
      And when we unfolded these lumps
      there bulletsDiamonds ! bully
      1. Pane Kohanku 12 December 2019 21: 23 New
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        diamonds!

        - Gold, diamonds!
        “No, Senya, your open fracture is not there!”
        belay
        The main thing is that it didn’t fail, and no one smeared his fingers! drinks but you never know what that German could cram there .... wink
        It remains only to wish that the inscriptions were deciphered. Maybe there are treasure coordinates! drinks
  • Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 20: 41 New
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    The main thing is that the train then goes on its own way, and does not turn into the fields. smile
    1. bubalik 12 December 2019 20: 54 New
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      ,,, here yes the person himself chooses which train (the key decision point) he will take, but how! this train will go (along the paths or fields) is already fatum. what
      1. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 21: 09 New
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        Quote: bubalik
        this is fatum

        For the passenger, yes. And for the train? smile
        1. bubalik 12 December 2019 21: 14 New
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          ,,, and you won’t affect its movement anymore, you are given only the choice of a train (to the next key point-denouement-transplant), the train is that one of the many endless realities of the action at the moment belay
          1. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 21: 20 New
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            Quote: bubalik
            the train is that one of the many endless realities

            That is, you deny the train the right to work and to make decisions? Do you consider it a constant, deprived of its own will and doomed to move along the route planned by someone else over the entire period of its existence? But then the trains would not go off the rails!
            1. bubalik 12 December 2019 21: 25 New
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              But then the trains would not go off the rails!
              ,,, setting is interesting what I dare to assume that what we consider a catastrophe (gathering) is actually the next key point for choosing a solution with multiple development vectors.
            2. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 21: 37 New
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              Quote: bubalik
              the next key point for choosing a solution

              Any point is a straight line, which we look at from a certain angle. Therefore, there is no sequence of key points, there is an infinite arbitrary change in the direction of development of the current reality in space and time.
              I already forgot, Sergey, where did we start? laughing
            3. bubalik 12 December 2019 21: 39 New
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              ,,, let's go around in a circle, bastardly laughing
            4. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 21: 46 New
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              The cyclicity of life forms in the space-time continuum ... Normal, in general.
              Listen, they raised such topics, I really wanted to drink. I’ll go, I’ll inflate the stopar and into the bunk.
              Thank you all, colleagues. hi fellow
            5. bubalik 12 December 2019 21: 48 New
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              And thank you for the fascinating conversation, Mikhail hi
        2. Pane Kohanku 12 December 2019 21: 40 New
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          I already forgot, Sergey, where did we start?

          from the influence of trilobite life on modern archeology in the Luga region of the Leningrad region. laughing
          Bravo, gentlemen, bravo! good Your conversation reminded me of this:
          In everyday life, Putilin was an interesting person, and when he began to remember the good old days, they listened with bated breath, and the speech of Ivan Dmitrievich was figurative, witty. Probably, for this reason, the famous actor, storyteller and writer Ivan Gorbunov became his closest friend, behind a glass of vodka - to the bursts of fish in Volkhov - they were refined in presenting such life storylines that a normal person would not even dream of in a dream ... (V.S. Pikul, "The Good Old Time"). Bravo! drinks
        3. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 21: 47 New
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          Nikolay, in my efforts through Luga district, there are so many trilobites that they already affect agriculture, not archeology! laughing
      2. Hantengri 12 December 2019 22: 01 New
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        Quote: Trilobite Master
        Any point is a straight line, which we look at from a certain angle.

        Well! We can! This is, in fact, “Our answer to Fomenko.”! Not all of it is to be picked in history ...
        Definition: A point is the end point.

        Let now the academician and mathematician try to refute this axiom. laughing
      3. bubalik 12 December 2019 22: 28 New
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        ,,, or maybe a sphere in which there is a circle, but there is no center!
      4. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 22: 47 New
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        No mathematician would even think to refute this.
  • Phil77 13 December 2019 07: 22 New
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    No Sergey! The key point is to buy a ticket!
  • Hantengri 12 December 2019 20: 56 New
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    Or maybe he is a creator! Maybe he sees it! Maybe he also wants: “I'll go down at the far station. Grass waist-deep” ?!wassat
    1. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 21: 11 New
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      Quote: HanTengri
      Or maybe he is a creator!

      So in his genes from his ancestors laid a creative streak! Perhaps the locksmith who collected it was a poet or a dreamer, that the essence is almost the same. smile
    2. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 22: 28 New
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      "Narva" grass "and give a" package ",
      The girl I love! " laughing
      1. bubalik 13 December 2019 13: 20 New
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        3x3zsave (anton) Yesterday, 23: 2

        ,,, illegal acquisition, storage, transportation belay stop laughing
        1. Phil77 13 December 2019 13: 37 New
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          And most importantly. The most difficult is the spread! laughingArticle 228, 4 to 8.
        2. 3x3zsave 13 December 2019 21: 08 New
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          "You are not sewing me, boss!" laughing
    3. Phil77 13 December 2019 13: 35 New
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      Reminds. Remember? * A train from Romashkino * ... smile
  • 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 21: 45 New
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    It depends on what "wheels"!
  • 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 21: 37 New
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    If we take it as the thesis that we live in an anthropocentric world, then the picture of the world changes up to "vice versa."
    1. Catfish 13 December 2019 16: 15 New
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      “Everything is not what it seems, and not vice versa.” (C). request
      1. Phil77 13 December 2019 19: 29 New
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        Oh hell! Isn't it a matrix ???? laughing Good evenings Konstantin!
        1. Catfish 13 December 2019 19: 34 New
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          Hello, Sergey! hi This is not a matrix, but the Chaos Theory. It was such a good movie. It makes sense to see if you haven’t seen it.
          1. Phil77 13 December 2019 19: 41 New
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            Is that about Jack Ryan?
            1. Catfish 13 December 2019 19: 59 New
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              Is that about Jack Ryan?


              And who is it? In Gibson Theory, Mel Gibson had the main role, I don’t remember the rest, I watched it a long time ago.
              1. Phil77 13 December 2019 20: 14 New
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                Stop, stop. There are two films * Chaos Theory * .One 2007 / melodrama / and 2013, about Jack Ryan / analyst Tsereushnik / .A understand! This is you Konstantin, do not * conspiracy theory * mean? 1997? That's where Mel starred, no?
              2. Catfish 13 December 2019 20: 35 New
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                Yes, of course, "Conspiracy Theory", what the hell are the melodramas that I would watch them. laughing
  • 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 21: 26 New
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    That's right, Sergey! "No fate," Sarah Conor scratched with a knife on the hood of the Land Rover.
    1. Hantengri 12 December 2019 21: 40 New
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      Quote: 3x3zsave

      "No fate," Sarah Conor scratched with a knife on the hood of the Land Rover.

      "Ride like that," said the parrot whom the cat pulled out of the cage good-naturedly. (with) lol
      1. 3x3zsave 12 December 2019 22: 07 New
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        “Iddqd, dear,” he told her a second later. laughing
        1. Hantengri 13 December 2019 20: 51 New
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          - No pasaran! Pasaremos !; The cat answered, overshadowing herself with a sign of the cross. laughing
          1. 3x3zsave 13 December 2019 21: 00 New
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            “And around the balls ?!” the parrot retorted. The cat probably did not know that the parrot was an old doomer and knew the code for moving to another level. laughing
            1. Hantengri 13 December 2019 22: 00 New
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              “Don't be a Borzoi, Matveyich,” Agent Smith meowed in response. “We know, now you’ll say that all of us, in this Matrix, are registered somewhere, and if you erase the address, she herself will spit you out. "the muzzle is cunning ... Well, thee, yesterday, re-registered, for inexpensive!" laughing
              1. 3x3zsave 13 December 2019 22: 05 New
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                "There is no sadder story in the world,
                What is the story of the hung "riset" laughing
                1. bubalik 13 December 2019 22: 20 New
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                  Hantengri
                  3x3zsave
                  Today


                  ,,,,Russian version. bully
                2. 3x3zsave 13 December 2019 22: 40 New
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                  "Long live Russian nanotechnology, the largest nanotechnology in the world !!!" laughing
  • bubalik 12 December 2019 21: 42 New
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    on the hood of the Land Rover
    ,,, here I am about the same. There is a choice - to scratch the neighbor’s on, “Land Rover,” or not. Depending on the decision made, my life path will continue as usual or I will get fascinating adventures in medical institutions wassat
  • Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 18: 53 New
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    Rearоexactly, Vyacheslav Olegovich. No reallyоexactly.
    For example, I really understand the emotional awe that you certainly experienced when opening this pencil case and exploring its contents. I am glad for you and I envy you in a good way - they made a discovery, a real discovery, both figuratively and literally! smile good
    I hope on a piece of paper a personal autograph of some Johann Altusia. smile
    In the last picture there is not enough cuirass, cassette and broadsword in the bandage. smile
    1. kalibr 12 December 2019 18: 59 New
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      Good evening, dear Michael! I don’t know if they managed to make out something there or not. I recognize the 17th ... I'll see what else is there, but there are a lot of unique things there. For example, the miter of the Grenadiers of Peter the 3rd and the officer scarf. That's how it got to Penza? But about this some other time. There is also a Sudanese shield made of rhino skin, assegai iron darts, a samurai cuirass (!) ...
      1. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 19: 57 New
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        Quote: kalibr
        There is also a Sudanese shield made of rhino skin, assegai iron darts, a samurai cuirass (!) ...

        Almost like in my attic! laughing Three generations of boys dragged all this nonsense there, but now what the first generation has coached has threatened to become exhibits!
        I have there a four-ruled Berdanka of 1881 onwards, two icons of the late XIX century. in copper frames, bamboo spinning with an inertial reel, wooden swords, several bows with arrows made on stump, an elbow shield of the scutum type, only flat, and much more, just you won’t remember. smile And, two more kerosene, also, probably, a hundred years already each!
        1. Alf
          Alf 12 December 2019 20: 25 New
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          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Three generations of boys dragged all this nonsense there, but now what the first generation has coached has threatened to become exhibits!

          I don’t know about the exhibits, but for ten years you have been guaranteed for storage. laughing
          1. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 20: 30 New
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            Quote: Alf
            ten years for storage

            I'm a lawyer. smile
            I was safe. good
            1. Alf
              Alf 12 December 2019 21: 35 New
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              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Quote: Alf
              ten years for storage

              I'm a lawyer. smile
              I was safe. good

              Uh, dear, in our country the law that draws ...
              1. Trilobite Master 12 December 2019 21: 38 New
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                Quote: Alf
                the law that draws ...

                ... and the lawyers are turning him smile
            2. sergo1914 12 December 2019 22: 31 New
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              Quote: Trilobite Master
              I'm a lawyer.


              Phew, Vladimir Volfovich, scared. And are you here? What are the fates?
  • eagle owl 12 December 2019 18: 54 New
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    By the way, local history museums - yes. Penza is certainly not a small city, but Serpukhov. And the museum there is curious
    1. kalibr 12 December 2019 19: 01 New
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      Quote: Uhu
      and here is Serpukhov.

      Alas, I have never been and will hardly be now.
      1. eagle owl 12 December 2019 19: 03 New
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        This is a pity. It turns out there was a metallurgy center in Russia even before Tula was - and I haven’t even known about it all my life))) Or that it ends there, not the districts - Novgorodians were sent there)
        1. Dym71 12 December 2019 20: 10 New
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          Quote: Uhu
          It turns out that the center of metallurgy in Russia before Tula was

          Oh, that’s what it means? And we like that for that winked
          Archaeologists have witnessed in Tula traces of metallurgical production of the beginning of the era

          https://tula.mk.ru/social/2019/12/06/arkheologi-zasvidetelstvovali-v-tule-sledy-metallurgicheskogo-proizvodstvo-nachala-nashey-ery.html
          Best regards from Tula hi
          1. eagle owl 12 December 2019 20: 12 New
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            And I was in the Tula region, too, by the way it is reflected fellow
            1. Mordvin 3 13 December 2019 07: 37 New
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              Quote: Uhu
              And I was in the Tula region, too, by the way it is reflected

              My mother kicked me out of the Tula Museum of Weapons with kicks. crying
              1. eagle owl 13 December 2019 08: 53 New
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                There is the Demidov Museum, just opposite the weapons museum ...
                1. Mordvin 3 13 December 2019 08: 59 New
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                  Quote: Uhu
                  There is the Demidov Museum, just opposite the weapons museum ...

                  Do not remember that. I was in the museum of Nizhny Tagil, I tried to lift the copper table and roll the green cobblestone. Malachite. Did not work out. I went to the quarry, there malachite picked. wink
                  1. eagle owl 13 December 2019 09: 07 New
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                    And he is small, next to the church. From the museum of weapons if you look at the monument to Levsha - the church is visible
                  2. eagle owl 15 December 2019 01: 37 New
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                    By the way, guess who built that church)
                    1. Mordvin 3 15 December 2019 01: 41 New
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                      Quote: Uhu
                      By the way, guess who built that church)

                      Demidov, or what?
                      1. eagle owl 15 December 2019 01: 44 New
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                        The answer does not count - you are clearly prompted laughing
                      2. Mordvin 3 15 December 2019 01: 58 New
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                        Quote: Uhu
                        you were clearly prompted

                        Nobody told me ... I was in the museum of Nizhny Tagil, there was a malachite rolled pebble ..
                      3. Mordvin 3 15 December 2019 02: 16 New
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                        Are you talking to me about the cons?
                      4. eagle owl 15 December 2019 02: 50 New
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                        You are ... Do not be stunned by the hour? Here you explain to me, why the heck should I stick you a minus, when I can - in the dialogue - can I tell you a complaint? So you think, a hundred, if you want, I can’t wash you off?
                        And for the minus, it's always fun here. You. didn’t touch the sect of Ilonamask for an hour? Then they like to run through all the stories of those who ipet them
                      5. Mordvin 3 15 December 2019 02: 54 New
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                        Quote: Uhu
                        Not stunned by the hour?

                        No.
                        Quote: Uhu
                        can I tell you a complaint?

                        What kind of complaint? Explain.
                        Quote: Uhu
                        I can’t wash you too?

                        Why did you spread the bazaar? Explain.
                      6. eagle owl 15 December 2019 02: 59 New
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                        You asked.
                        I DIDN'T YOU CUT THE MINUSES
                        The question is yours, not mine. I - a little fucked up, but answered. What claims to me? By the way, apologies wouldn’t hurt here - YOURS, isn't it?
                      7. Mordvin 3 15 December 2019 03: 04 New
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                        Quote: Uhu
                        By the way, apologies wouldn’t hurt here - YOURs are not the truth ??

                        No. Do not accept apologies from me.
                      8. Ruslan67 15 December 2019 03: 20 New
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                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        . Do not accept apologies from me.

                        We reject claims of any form color odor (R. Sheckley) laughing
                      9. eagle owl 15 December 2019 03: 28 New
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                        Or so;

                        I laughed. taschemta
                      10. Ruslan67 15 December 2019 03: 31 New
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                        Quote: Uhu
                        I laughed. taschemta

                        If Smirnov hadn’t understood already, he would deal with a bunch of fluderast through his teeth wassat
                      11. eagle owl 15 December 2019 04: 14 New
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                        So I didn’t understand)
                        And more from the regional Tula ...

                        Damn, I didn’t take a picture, that's why outsiders in the frame
                      12. Ruslan67 15 December 2019 04: 16 New
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                        Quote: Uhu
                        So I didn’t understand)

                        I'm talking about us ....
  • eagle owl 15 December 2019 03: 57 New
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    Excuse me, in this photo there was a muzzle)
  • kalibr 12 December 2019 18: 55 New
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    Quote: Phil77
    And most of all (I understood then!) I liked the horizontal showcase with iron crosses poured! Remember? I'm afraid to make a mistake, but there was still some kind of weapon. Well, and certainly the open area of ​​the museum with an armored train and so on and so forth.

    Of course I remember. I went to Moscow in the 80-90s as a job. And by the way, the “storm trooper” and daggers were lying there.
  • Undecim 12 December 2019 20: 11 New
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    It was not a musket, of course, but a light arquebus with a caliber of only 12 mm.
    The “musket” as a heavy arquebus for piercing armor from the middle of the XVI century went out of use and in the future almost any long-barreled muzzle-loading weapon was called a musket, and the term “arquebus” remained for a weapon with a wick lock.
    The sample from the Penza Museum, indicated in the article, is a typical civilian weapon of the second half of the XNUMXth century, moreover, judging by the design of the sneller mechanism, it is German. There are two types of sneller mechanisms on muzzle-loading weapons: German (Doppelzüngelstecher), in which the cocking is done by a separate cocker, and French (Rückstecher), in which the cocking is done by the trigger.
    In the English literature, both mechanisms are called Double Set Trigger and Single Set Trigger, respectively.

    For example, a pair of German rifles around 1670. For the same weapon, the presence of a patch box is also characteristic - a bullet case in the butt. The caliber of such weapons is usually 12 - 12,5 mm. By the way, trunks are rifled.
    1. Undecim 12 December 2019 20: 42 New
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      By the way, Vyacheslav Olegovich. It would be necessary to examine the weapon for stamps, inscriptions.
      1. kalibr 12 December 2019 21: 59 New
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        Quote: Undecim
        It would be necessary to examine the weapon for stamps, inscriptions.

        Inspected. No!
        1. Undecim 12 December 2019 22: 08 New
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          And if you separate the trunk from the box and look from below?
          1. kalibr 13 December 2019 07: 41 New
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            Victor Nikolaevich! My wife worked for 4 years as a guide in the museum in the 80s and then I went there. But ... only now he held it in his hands! And you separate the trunk ... And then, it is very difficult. There are stilettos, similar to the barrel mount on the Colt of 1837. They must be knocked out, and they sit firmly. So for now it’s better not to touch ... Tolerate ...
          2. Catfish 13 December 2019 16: 28 New
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            So you need to know where to look. There was at one time in the Union a homegrown "underwater archaeologist" with a "shaggy paw" at the top. So, they pulled out two small little fluffy little fish from the tartans sunk down from the shore and dragged them to the Anapa Museum. And previously they beat Vingrad with hammers (see the fig) and the breech. The stigma, of course, they did not find, because they did not guess how to check the trunnions. The guns turned out to be French, which was rather strange for a Turkish dish, well, we already figured it out.
            1. Mordvin 3 15 December 2019 02: 36 New
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              Quote: Sea Cat
              And previously they beat Vingrad with hammers

              What is it like? As he told me, they dragged a barrel, and they threw grapes and rotten apples there. Then they drove around the village, and drove the chacha.
              1. Mordvin 3 15 December 2019 02: 45 New
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                Some kind of cons sticks to me. Show off.
                1. Catfish 15 December 2019 03: 34 New
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                  It wasn’t I who stuck the minus and annulled it in the course.
                  Wingrad, in a cast-iron or copper muzzle-loading gun is called the end of the trunk for the breech. If you want, look on the net, I'm too lazy to mess around, but generally thought that on this branch of the site such a trifle should be known, if not all, then very many.
                  So this has nothing to do with grapes, and even more so with chach.
                  The night from Saturday to Sunday, "music inspired"? wink drinks
    2. Pane Kohanku 12 December 2019 21: 34 New
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      and in the future, almost any long-barreled muzzle-loading weapon was called a musket

      Messir, I’ll add. "French military art", 1696. The musket - with a wick lock. drinks

      but the grenadier is already armed with quite a flintlock fusee!
      1. Undecim 12 December 2019 22: 24 New
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        In French, a weapon with a wick lock is mousquet.
        And with wheel and shock - fusil
    3. Catfish 13 December 2019 16: 18 New
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      Well, since the rifle, the barrel should be rifled, otherwise it’s just rustling. smile
      1. Undecim 13 December 2019 16: 50 New
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        The French word fusil rifle means exclusively by tradition. And the word is from the Latin petra (stone) + focilis (fire). Gradually, in the process, only focllis remained, which evolved into French fusil.
        1. Catfish 13 December 2019 18: 07 New
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          It is clear that, according to tradition, the French, in my opinion, have a machine gun called something like this: "fusil-mitralose", or something like that.
          1. Undecim 13 December 2019 18: 36 New
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            The machine gun is called mitrailleuse.
            1. Catfish 13 December 2019 18: 37 New
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              I somehow forgot to clarify what I had in mind a light machine gun.
              1. Undecim 13 December 2019 18: 46 New
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                And a light machine gun called mitrailleuse.
                1. Catfish 13 December 2019 19: 04 New
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                  mitrailleuse manuelle


                  Not too lazy, climbed to search and found only that. But I remember exactly that in some French military magazine I read this back in the seventies
                  Fusil Mitraliasis
                  . not in Russian transcription, of course.
                  1. Undecim 13 December 2019 19: 08 New
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                    You fall into a typical mistake - literal translation.
                    1. Catfish 13 December 2019 19: 14 New
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                      fuséel - mitrailleuse,


                      So it was printed under the photograph, as far as I remember, and translated, yes, themselves, with a "spoken, dictionary."
                      1. Undecim 13 December 2019 19: 31 New
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                        Apparently it was printed fusil-mitrailleur.
                      2. Catfish 13 December 2019 20: 01 New
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                        Most likely you’re right, I have French, you yourself understand ... Yes, and it was a long time ago, but I remembered that they signed the photo with the handbrake.
  • faterdom 12 December 2019 20: 40 New
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    This is the Poles forgot. Which Ivan Susanin rejected.
  • Uncle Izya 12 December 2019 20: 59 New
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    Straight work of art
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. kalibr 13 December 2019 19: 19 New
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      Here it is! The gun is deactivated, there is no spring in it, and maybe there is a hole in the barrel if it got into our museum from another museum. But even if not, then by law all flintlock weapons without flint in the trigger are not considered weapons, but are considered a historical artifact. So the Solovki are not afraid of us!
    2. tanit 14 December 2019 14: 14 New
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      Does not allow the body not to climb?
      1. tanit 14 December 2019 14: 23 New
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        I'm talking about the Master Eat
  • Edward Vashchenko 12 December 2019 22: 34 New
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    Vyacheslav Olegovich, this is a twist, bravo!
    Need text and paper analysis, watermarks?
    hi
    1. Vladimir_2U 13 December 2019 04: 56 New
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      Obviously, the bullets were wrapped in special papers!
      1. kalibr 13 December 2019 07: 36 New
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        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Obviously, the bullets were wrapped in special papers!

        Well this is unlikely. But it was interesting to hold in hand a paper with handwritten text that no one had unwrapped for several centuries. Most likely it was someone else's letter.
    2. kalibr 13 December 2019 07: 34 New
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      Good morning Edward! Yesterday I was already sleeping at this time. The museum analyzes ...
  • Mordvin 3 13 December 2019 07: 35 New
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    Author with a gun. Left view.

    Well, that’s it. Waiting for the right view ... laughing
    1. kalibr 13 December 2019 10: 36 New
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      So he is! In the article ...
    2. Pane Kohanku 13 December 2019 13: 17 New
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      Well, that’s it. Waiting for the right view ...

      - I challenge to a duel! the cat yelled. ("The Master and Margarita") drinks True, Behemoth had "browning" in its paws. wink
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 December 2019 18: 36 New
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        Oh, not in vain flipping through the comments !!!
        Nikolay good evening, thanks for the photo!
      2. Mordvin 3 13 December 2019 21: 15 New
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        A modest question ... Is this hto u, Mrs. Kokhanka?
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 December 2019 22: 20 New
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          Vladimir is not for me, but for Pan! My business is a cellar, rats and sour cream !!!
          Sincerely, the cons are not mine!
          1. Mordvin 3 15 December 2019 01: 05 New
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            Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
            My business is a cellar, rats and sour cream !!!

            Scientist cat smoked in milk ... wassat
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 December 2019 04: 27 New
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              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
              My business is a cellar, rats and sour cream !!!

              Scientist cat smoked in milk ... wassat

              Vladimir appreciated !!! good crying right up to tears !!! laughing
  • kalibr 13 December 2019 08: 05 New
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    Quote: 3x3zsave
    A wig is not a problem at all! I will never believe that you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, have no connections in the Penza Drama Theater.

    The main director is familiar and not bad ... But ... however, you need to think about it. There is usually a haste to never do anything.
  • Maks1995 13 December 2019 10: 51 New
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    Cool!!! Well done!!!
  • Alex013 13 December 2019 13: 57 New
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    Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the article. From the latest articles, one of the most interesting. I think in your local history museum a lot about what you can write. And how many interesting exhibits in all similar museums can be found ...
    1. kalibr 13 December 2019 16: 46 New
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      Quote: Alex013
      And how many interesting exhibits in all similar museums can be found ...

      Don’t even speak! I know a museum where there is a Japanese ceremonial sword decorated with cloisonne enamel, all in dragons and sakura flowers, there are swords of Landsknechts and a lot more. But ... everything is in the storeroom.
  • Crimea26 13 December 2019 17: 51 New
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    “But at the same time it turned out not one sheaf of sparks, but several, according to the number of grooves, or rather protrusions between them with transverse recesses.”
    This proposal is not at all clear ....
    1. kalibr 13 December 2019 19: 15 New
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      Well then ... 4 longitudinal grooves are made on the wheel rim. There can be 8, 6, 4 transverse grooves, right? When the wheel is turning, sparks are produced only when the transverse groove of the wheel (one of) hits pyrite and rubs against it. There are 5 ledges, grooves 4. So the transverse grooves are also essentially 5. Well, sheaves of sparks also get 5, although, of course, they look like one big stream of sparks. I think that the longitudinal grooves were made to reduce clogging of the wheel with pyrite. I clearly explained?
      1. Crimea26 14 December 2019 16: 36 New
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        I think - I understood what it was about, but here the situation is such that one photo is better than several ornate offers))))
        1. kalibr 14 December 2019 17: 22 New
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          Quote: Crimea26
          I think - I understood what it was about, but here the situation is such that one photo is better than several ornate offers))))

          If it was in my arms ...
  • tanit 14 December 2019 14: 12 New
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    But when I did it ... Intrigued by the scimitar ... In the same museum. He was sheathed ...))) Vyacheslav Olegovich, you also get him out)) What if there? )))
    1. kalibr 14 December 2019 17: 21 New
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      Quote: tanit
      But when I did it ... Intrigued by the scimitar ... In the same museum. He was sheathed ...))) Vyacheslav Olegovich, you also get him out)) What if there? )))

      Dear Vadim! There was also a "Cossack saber" with a blade wide in the palm of my hand, I suspect, in fact, Turkish kilich. As for the scimitar ... I’ll try to see for sure.