Military Review

What prompted the USSR to start a war with Finland

168
What prompted the USSR to start a war with Finland

Finnish soldier with a machine gun Lahti-Salorant M-26 at a position in the forest


Winter war Finland followed the principle formulated by the first Finnish president, Svinhuvud: “Any enemy of Russia should always be a friend of Finland.” The Finnish ruling circles made their plans for the future, with the expectation of making profit at the expense of the Soviet Union if Japan or Germany attacked it.

Cold world


Soviet-Finnish wars 1918 — 1920 and 1921 — 1922 interesting in connection with the favorite topic of the anti-Soviet. Like, could little Finland threaten the huge Soviet empire in 1939? However, a detailed study of the problem reveals that the Finnish threat was quite real.

Firstly, aggressive nationalists came to power in Finland, who tried to use Russia’s temporary weaknesses to build Great Finland at its expense. The first failures or small successes (the capture of Pechenga) did not cool their ardor. After a failed trip to Karelia, the commander of the Belofin volunteers Talvela declared: “I was convinced that liberating Karelia from Russia (the contemptuous name of the Russians. - Author.) Is possible only by taking it. For the liberation of Karelia, new bloodshed will be required. But there is no need to try to do it with small forces anymore, a real army is needed. ” This opinion is not just one of the Finnish “field commanders”, but the Finnish military-political elite. That is, in Helsinki did not abandon the course towards the creation of "Great Finland" at the expense of Russian lands. Continued political and military preparations for the war with Soviet Russia. If the ruling Finnish party claimed a part of Soviet territory that exceeded the size of Finland itself, then the appetites of the right-wing radicals were generally unlimited. So, in the charter of the youth organization "Sinemust" it was noted that the border of Finland should pass along the Yenisei.

Secondly, do not confuse the powerful red empire of the 1945 — 1953 model. with Soviet Russia of the 20s sample. It was a newly created state, which barely scrambled out of a terrible civilizational, national disaster. The state is agricultural, with a weak industry, transport and armed forces. With a patient broken during the years of the Russian Troubles by a society in which the coals of a new civil and peasant war smoldered. With a powerful "fifth column", which only temporarily hid and was ready to blow up and tear the country apart again. For the Soviet Union in the 20's, the threat was not even England or Japan (great powers), but such local predators as Romania, Poland or Finland, who were not averse to participating in the section of the skin of the Russian bear again.

Therefore, Moscow during this period did not have any aggressive plans for Finland. This only liberals and Russophobes believe that Stalin (like the entire Soviet leadership) day and night only thought how to enslave Finland, as well as other neighboring countries and peoples. The anti-Soviet has two “iron” arguments: 1) Stalin - “ghoul”; 2) communist ideology implied the indispensable replacement of capitalism with socialism. However, none of the Soviet leadership in the 1930's claimed that the Red Army was going to invade any state in order to overthrow the local government and establish Soviet power, socialism. On the contrary, everywhere it was said that the peoples themselves would make revolutions in their countries.

Given the deplorable socio-economic and military condition of Soviet Russia in the 1920 - the beginning of the 1930-ies, and then the fundamental restructuring of the country and society (collectivization, industrialization, cultural, scientific and technological revolution, the construction of new armed forces, etc.), Moscow pursued a precautionary policy before the outbreak of World War II. Moreover, the Soviet government preferred to yield in conflict situations. There was not even any semblance of a great-power policy. Moscow made concessions not only to Japan, but also to countries such as Finland and Norway, when their fishermen violated our territorial waters and caught fish in them.

Thirdly, Finland was dangerous as an ally of more powerful powers. Helsinki did not intend to fight with Russia alone. The Finnish leadership tried to use the favorable international situation to participate in the division of Russia, as it was during the Civil War and intervention. Finland followed the principle formulated by the first Finnish president, Svinhuvud: “Any enemy of Russia should always be a friend of Finland.” Therefore, the Finnish elite at first lay under the Second Reich, even intended to choose a German prince as the monarch. And after the fall of the German Empire, quickly became a partner of the Entente.

The Finnish leadership was ready to enter into an alliance with anyone, if only against the Russians. In this regard, Finnish nationalists were no different from the Polish, who collaborated with Hitler in the hope of a common campaign to the East. Both Finns and Poles reacted sharply to the entry of the USSR into the League of Nations, to the rapprochement between Moscow and Paris (the idea of ​​European collective security). The Finns even struck up a relationship with Japan. In 1933, when Soviet-Japanese relations sharply worsened, Japanese officers began to come to Finland. They were trained in the Finnish army.

Active Finnish society was actively anti-Soviet propaganda, public opinion was for the "liberation" of Karelia from the "Russian occupation". As far back as 1922, participants in the campaign in Soviet Karelia created the Karelian Academic Society. The aim of the society was to create a “Great Finland” by seizing the Russian territories. The Finnish press conducted systematic anti-Soviet propaganda. In no country in Europe has there been such an open aggressive propaganda for the attack on the USSR and the seizure of Soviet territories.

The hostility of the Finnish elite towards Russia was obvious to everyone. So, the Polish envoy to Helsinki F. Harvat reported to Warsaw that Finland’s policy is characterized by “aggressiveness against Russia ... Finland’s position in the USSR is dominated by the question of Karelia joining Finland”. Harvat even considered Finland "the most belligerent state in Europe."

Thus, both the Finnish and Polish ruling circles made their plans for the future based on profit from the Soviet Union (and both countries paid for it in the future) in the event of a Japanese attack on it or intervention from the West. At first, the Finnish aggressors expected that Russia would fight against Poland again, then they began to link their hopes for an anti-Soviet war with Japan and Germany. But Helsinki’s hopes for a war between Japan and the USSR, when it will be possible to “liberate” Karelia and Ingermanland from the Russians (Izhora land), did not materialize.


Soviet Tanks T-26 in the forest on the Karelian Isthmus before the attack of the Finnish positions. February 1940

Finnish military threat


It is clear that the presence of such an aggressive state on the northwestern borders of the USSR was a constant headache for Moscow. Colonel F. Feymonville, an American military attache in the Soviet Union, reported to Washington in September 1937 in September: "The most pressing military problem of the Soviet Union is preparation for repelling the simultaneous attack of Japan in the East and Germany together with Finland in the West." That is, the West was well aware of the Finnish threat to Russia.

Hostility to the USSR was also reinforced by deeds. On the Soviet-Finnish border, all sorts of provocations on land, in the air and at sea were commonplace. So, on 7 on October 1937, on the Karelian Isthmus in the area of ​​border pillar No. 162, a Soviet border guard detachment commander Spirin was mortally wounded by a shot from the Finnish side. Negotiations on the settlement of this incident were completed only in November 1937. At first, the Finnish authorities denied their guilt, but then admitted the murder and paid compensation to the family of the victim. Similar incidents, shelling of Soviet border guards, citizens, territories, violation of the USSR border, etc., were commonplace on the border line with Finland.

Provocations were also arranged in the air. So, in an interview with Finnish Foreign Minister Holsti on June 7 on June 1937, Ambassador of the USSR to Finland E. Asmus complained about “repeated flights by Finnish aircraft of the Soviet border”. 29 On June 1937, a Finnish plane violated the border in the Olonets region. On July 9 1938 a Finnish plane violated the Soviet border in the area of ​​border pillar No. 699. Flying at an altitude of 1500 m, the plane went deeper into the USSR on 45 km, flew about 85 km parallel to the border line along Soviet territory, then returned to Finland in the area of ​​border post No. 728.

Violations of the Soviet border were noted at sea. In April 1936, the Soviet side informed the Finnish that from February to April 1936, our territorial waters in the Gulf of Finland were violated 9 times, 68 people were detained. The fishing of Finnish fishermen in the territorial waters of the USSR has reached a wide scope. The Finnish authorities, for their part, did not take any effective measures.


Rows of Finnish granite anti-tank hollows on the Karelian Isthmus (a section of one of the defense lines of the Mannerheim Line) in the fall of 1939. In the foreground, on the stands, two granite blocks prepared for installation

The problem of the Baltic Fleet and the defense of Leningrad


After the separation of the Baltic states and Finland, the red Baltic fleet, in fact, was blocked in Kronstadt. The Russians lost control of the Finnish skerries, for which they shed a lot of blood in the wars with Sweden.

With a friendly position, Helsinki could agree with Moscow in the 30s. Provide the USSR with a base at the exit to the Gulf of Finland, in return to obtain territories in Karelia and economic benefits. At the same time, Finland’s defense would not be affected. But the entrance to the bay would be closed fleets other countries and guaranteed access to the Baltic Fleet on the high seas.

The Finnish leadership, on the contrary, did everything to worsen the military-strategic position of Russia and to anger Moscow. In 1930, the Finns entered into a secret agreement with Estonia, according to which the Navy of the two countries had to be ready at any time to block the Gulf of Finland. In addition, during the First World War, the Russians built on both banks of the Gulf of Finland dozens of coastal batteries with powerful artillery caliber from 152 to 305 mm. Most of these fortifications went to the Estonians and Finns in good condition. So, 305 mm guns on the Finnish island of Makiloto had a firing range of 42 kilometers and reached the Estonian coast. And 305 mm guns on the Estonian island of Aegna finished off to the Finnish coast. That is, Finnish and Estonian batteries jointly blocked the Gulf of Finland.

Also, two countries were preparing to block the Gulf of Finland with several rows of minefields. 7 submarines (5 Finnish and 2 Estonian) were to be on duty behind minefields. The headquarters of Finland and Estonia agreed in detail on all the details of the operation to close the bay. Every year in the summer, starting with the 1930 year, both fleets conducted secret exercises on the installation of minefields. Coastal batteries fired at targets in the center of the Gulf of Finland.

The position of “neutral” Sweden is also interesting. The Swedes in 1930 concluded a secret agreement with Estonia and Finland that in the event of their conflict with the USSR, Sweden would not formally declare war on the Russians. However, de facto Swedes will help ships, planes and ground forces under the guise of volunteers.

Thus, the largest fleet of the Soviet Union - the Baltic, was actually blocked in the eastern part of the Gulf of Finland. The Baltic Fleet had only one base left - Kronstadt, whose harbors were viewed through binoculars from the Finnish coast. Kronstadt and Soviet ships could hit not only long-range coastal guns, but also corps artillery of the Finnish army. And Leningrad itself was threatened by the blow of the Finnish army and its possible allies. Obviously, not a single great and maritime power could satisfy such a situation. And in the process of approaching the great war in Europe and the beginning of World War II, this situation became absolutely intolerable. There were no fools in the Soviet government, there were sober-minded, intelligent people who cared about national security. The issue had to be addressed.

It is also worth remembering that even before the start of the Soviet-Finnish war, the West completely forgot about international law. Only the law of power triumphed in the world. Italy robbed in Africa and Europe, Germany in Europe, Japan in Asia. England already in September 1939 began preparations for an invasion of neutral Norway. England and the USA in 1939 - 1942 invaded dozens of neutral countries and semi-independent possessions, including French colonies, without demand or permission.


Calculation of the machine gun "Maxim" at the forefront on the Karelian Isthmus. February 1940

Union with the Third Reich


Of particular concern to Moscow were Finnish-German relations. Indeed, the threat was significant. Finland could become Germany’s strategic bridgehead for the war with the USSR from the north-west. The base for the fleet, including the underwater, aviation and ground forces. From Finland, it was possible to threaten Murmansk and Leningrad, the second capital, the largest industrial and cultural center of the Union.

The Finns themselves did not forget to whom they owed their independence, and sought to renew fruitful ties with Germany. Relations were established even before the creation of the Third Reich. Thus, under the Versailles Agreement, Germany did not have the right to have a submarine fleet. But the Germans were not banned from building submarines for other countries. In 1930, the German-based design bureau Engineering Shipbuilding Office (IVS, Dutch. Ingenieuskaantor voor Scheepsbouw; formally a private company, in fact, the property of the German Navy), began developing a submarine project for friendly Finland. Built submarines (three ships) became part of the Finnish Navy. These submarines became the prototypes for the German small series II submarines. In March 1935, Germany terminated the Treaty of Versailles, and from 1935 to 1941 built 50 year submarines of this type for its fleet.

In exchange for the supply of copper and nickel, Finland received from Germany 20-mm anti-aircraft guns, ammunition, and agreed to supply combat aircraft. Germany and Finland exchanged visits by senior military officials and generals. In August 1937, the Finns hosted a German squadron of 11 German submarines. With the consent of the Finnish side, a German intelligence and counterintelligence center was established in the country in the middle of the 1939. His main goal was to conduct intelligence work against Russia, in particular, to collect information about the Baltic Fleet, the Leningrad Military District and the industry of Leningrad. Abwehr chief (German military intelligence and counterintelligence agency) Admiral Kanaris and his closest assistants have repeatedly met since the 1936 of the year in the Third Reich and Finland with Finnish intelligence leaders Svenson and Melander. The Germans and Finns exchanged intelligence about the USSR, developed joint plans.

Thus, Finland became the strategic bridgehead of the German Empire in a future war with the Soviet Union. It is clear that Moscow at all costs sought to solve the problem of defense of the northwestern borders of the country and Leningrad. Get the Baltic Fleet out of the Gulf of Finland.


Finnish submarine Vesikko. Source of photos: http://waralbum.ru/; https://ru.wikipedia.org/

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Winter War

The myth of the aggression of the "criminal Stalinist regime" against the "peaceful" Finland
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  1. Plantagenet
    Plantagenet 29 November 2019 07: 32 New
    -6
    "Obtained during the" winter war "of the territory, for
    perhaps the exception is the base on Hanko and the peninsulas
    in the Arctic, did not play any significant
    role during the Great Patriotic War
    war (in Finland it is called "continuation war
    "). From July 10 to August 10 Finnish Karelian
    the army occupied the territory that was before March 12, 1940
    Finnish years. The battles on the Karelian Isthmus, which began
    July 31 offensive by Southeast Finnish
    army, led to the fact that for the month (to September 1)
    troops of the 23rd Army of the Leningrad Front also
    were forced to return to the old border, and
    three divisions (famous in February-March
    battles 123rd, which participated in the war, 142nd and
    arrived from Belarus 115th) were surrounded by
    Vyborg, and only the courage of the fighters and commanders of Vyborg
    fortified area saved the situation. "

    P. Apothecary "Soviet-Finnish War"
    1. Uncle Izya
      Uncle Izya 29 November 2019 08: 15 New
      +18
      So you think if you didn’t start a war in 1940, would the Finns be neutral?
      But what about the dream of Mannerheim, Karl Gustav Emil to annex Leningrad and all of Karelia
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 29 November 2019 09: 22 New
        -1
        Quote: Uncle Izya
        But what about the dream of Mannerheim, Karl Gustav Emil to annex Leningrad and all of Karelia

        what And why did the Finns not go beyond the old border in the 41st? There was a chance!
        1. strannik1985
          strannik1985 29 November 2019 09: 40 New
          +14
          And why did the Finns not go beyond the old border in the 41st? There was a chance!

          1. Serg65
            Serg65 29 November 2019 09: 42 New
            -9
            Quote: strannik1985
            And why did the Finns not go beyond the old border in the 41st? There was a chance!

            What did you want to say?
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 29 November 2019 10: 43 New
              +20
              Quote: Serg65
              What did you want to say?

              That the old Soviet-Finnish border was much west of the front line. And she never walked the Svir.
              The Finns stood only on the Karelian Isthmus. And then not along the line of the old border, but along the BRO KaUR line. Moreover, the Finns did not try to break through the KaUR for several days in the Sestroretsk and Beloostrovsky directions.
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 29 November 2019 11: 59 New
                0
                Quote: Alexey RA
                The fact that the old Soviet-Finnish border was much west of the front line

                I agree, but there was also the border of the Grand Duchy of Finland ..

                It was practically on it that the Finns both stood in December of the 41st and stood until June of the 44th
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 29 November 2019 12: 37 New
                  +19
                  Quote: Serg65
                  I agree, but there was also the border of the Grand Duchy of Finland ..

                  So it coincided with the border of Finland until 1940 (including the characteristic "fungus" north of Ladoga).
                  Petrozavodsk was not part of the VKF. And the VKF also had no border along Svir.
                  So the Finns in 1941 stopped only where our army stopped them. But not some kind of "old border".
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 29 November 2019 14: 13 New
                    -3
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Petrozavodsk was not part of the VKF. And the VKF also had no border along Svir.

                    Well, so I said ..
                    Quote: Serg65
                    Exactly practically

                    The Finns pushed the border 40-50 km to the natural barrier of the river. Svir.
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    So the Finns in 1941 stopped only where our army stopped them.

                    Well, to begin with, the appearance of the Finns in the regions of Petrozavodsk and Lodeynoye Field can certainly be blamed on Lieutenant General Gorelenko, but this is not entirely true. 6 and 7 Finnish corps at times surpassed the 7th army both in number and in armament, but nevertheless Gorelenko was unable to organize not a normal defense, not a normal retreat. I believe that the turning point in the battles for South Karelia came on September 18 with the entry into the command of Meretskov! Well, three more factors, in my opinion, are Churchill’s pressure on Mannerheim ..
                    For many friends of your country, it would be annoying if Finland were on the same bench with the accused and defeated Nazis

                    Removal of 163 German divisions from positions on the river. Wold and belated understanding by the Headquarters of the significance of battles on the river Svir, though the Germans helped in this Headquarters, capturing Tikhvin.
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    where our army stopped them

                    The valor and heroism of the soldiers of the Red Army is not diminished, for example, the actions of the 3rd division of the militia and the 3rd brigade of the marines beyond praise and are worthy of respect and memory for centuries!
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 29 November 2019 18: 59 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Serg65
                      The Finns pushed the border 40-50 km to the natural barrier of the river. Svir.

                      Well, the USSR in 1940 pushed the border. smile
                      Quote: Serg65
                      I believe that the turning point in the battles for South Karelia came on September 18 with the entry into the command of Meretskov!

                      Similarly.
                  2. Octopus
                    Octopus 29 November 2019 15: 32 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    stopped only where our army stopped them

                    Do not you think that you are slightly exaggerating the capabilities of the Red Army? And slightly downplay the possibilities of, say, Britain and its position on this issue?
                    1. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 29 November 2019 16: 55 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Octopus
                      Do not you think that you are slightly exaggerating the capabilities of the Red Army? And slightly downplay the possibilities of, say, Britain and its position on this issue?

                      "The warnings of England and the United States about the danger of further advancement did not worry Finland's top military leadership, and the offensive continued ....
                      The Finnish army captured a significant part of East Karelia, but not the one most desperate heads dreamed of. In the North of Karelia, the Finnish offensive was stopped at the initial stage. The actions of the Germans in the North did not give the expected results. It became clear to the Finns that the Germans in the North were not capable of fighting.
                      By the end of 1941, the troops were tired, but no one could tell when the war would end "(H.Seppel)
                      1. Octopus
                        Octopus 29 November 2019 17: 05 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        H.Seppel

                        That is yes. The Finns have their own M. Solonin, and not one.
                      2. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2019 04: 33 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Octopus
                        and not one

                        That's for sure! For example, O. Wechviläinen writes about Mannerheim: "in December 1941 [he] completely lost faith in the victory of Germany in the east."
                        And Mannerheim himself: "" My faith in Germany’s ability to successfully end the war was shaken, as it turned out how weak the Germans had prepared for the winter campaign, which is why I did not consider it impossible that their obvious defeat would occur on the eastern front. ”
                      3. Octopus
                        Octopus 30 November 2019 14: 04 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        finally lost faith in the victory of Germany in the east

                        What confuses you here? Is there something strange that Mannerheim was expecting the victory of his then ally, not his eternal enemy?
                      4. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2019 17: 49 New
                        +2
                        There is nothing strange in the fact that he expected the victory of Germany over the USSR (this was expected, for example, from Great Britain and the USA). The fact is that these expectations did not come true thanks to the Red Army (whose role it is customary to understate by some), and not the position of Britain (which it is customary to exaggerate).
                      5. Octopus
                        Octopus 30 November 2019 18: 22 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        The fact is that these expectations did not come true thanks to the Red Army

                        The Finnish offensive at both Leningrad and Svir was stopped in late August - early September. In those days, the Wehrmacht is doing beyond all expectations. Just the end of August is the turn of GA Center to the south.
                      6. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 1 December 2019 05: 35 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Just the end of August is the turn of GA Center to the south.

                        And according to the original plan, Moscow should have been taken at this time. Turns were not foreseen anywhere. Not "beyond" expectations, but things went beyond them.
                      7. Octopus
                        Octopus 1 December 2019 07: 02 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        the original plan at that time was to be taken by Moscow

                        5 months term Barbarossa, EMNIP.
                      8. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 1 December 2019 10: 25 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Octopus

                        5 months term Barbarossa, EMNIP.

                        ALL campaign. And the capture of Moscow - 25.08.41 EMNIP
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 29 November 2019 18: 59 New
        +2
        Quote: Octopus
        Do not you think that you are slightly exaggerating the capabilities of the Red Army? And slightly downplay the possibilities of, say, Britain and its position on this issue?

        Well, maybe a little bit. smile
        EMNIP, in addition to the UK, the United States also pressed on the Finns.
  • grave
    grave 29 November 2019 22: 29 New
    +1
    What’s they doing in Petrozavodsk? And they came and just went to the Svir defensive
  • evgic
    evgic 29 November 2019 11: 08 New
    -7
    What did you want to say?

    Probably your ignorance in the matter
    1. Neznaika
      Neznaika 29 November 2019 11: 32 New
      -11
      The author’s ignorance amused me more.
      "Of particular concern to Moscow were Finnish-German ties."
      What is it like?
      One would like to ask: did this concern manifest itself before the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact or after? Before the Kremlin raised glasses with champagne for Hitler’s health?
      1. Foul skeptic
        Foul skeptic 29 November 2019 11: 38 New
        +9
        To, Dunno, to. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact appeared, inter alia, due to such ties.
      2. grave
        grave 29 November 2019 22: 33 New
        +1
        And why not raise them (glasses)? And the anxiety was back in 30 years. Another memory was fresh when the Germans landed in Finnish ports in 18
      3. IGOR GORDEEV
        IGOR GORDEEV 1 December 2019 06: 56 New
        -1
        Quote: Neznaika
        One would like to ask: did this concern manifest itself before the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact or after?

        Again 25. Learn history and do not write stamped phrases.
  • Uncle Izya
    Uncle Izya 29 November 2019 09: 44 New
    +13
    And why did the Fritzes sit near Leningrad and didn’t simply smog further))
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 29 November 2019 12: 22 New
      +6
      Quote: Uncle Izya
      And why did the Fritzes sit near Leningrad and didn’t simply smog further))

      On September 6, 1941, Hitler, by his order, stopped the advance of the North group of forces on Leningrad, which had already reached the suburbs of the city, and ordered Field Marshal Leeb to give all the tanks of Gepner and a significant number of troops in order to launch an attack on Moscow. Well, near Moscow, as you know, the most unpleasant things happened and there was no time for Leningrad, but then Mannerheim also bucked again, on September 4, 41, Mannerheim sent General Jodl in plain text and refused to attack Leningrad, going over to the defense on Karelsky isthmus! On November 16, the Finns refused the Germans support for their attack on Tikhvin; on November 11, they switched to defense on the Olonets Isthmus. And the most interesting thing for you ... from the middle of the fall of the 41st year, the Finns began partial demobilization and by the spring of the 42nd 180 thousand soldiers, mostly older ones, had been demobilized!
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 29 November 2019 15: 37 New
        +11
        Quote: Serg65
        On September 4, 41, Mannerheim sent General Jodl in plain text and refused to advance on Leningrad, going over to the defense on the Karelian Isthmus!

        Still not send him. smile
        By this time, after two days of fighting at Sestroretsk and Beloostrov, the Finns had made an extremely unpleasant discovery: DOS KaUR was mothballed, staffed and ready for battle, the KaUR BROs had at least minimal infantry filling, the Russian defense was supported by tanks and BEPO, as well as coastal artillery Kronstadt.
        Attacking the UR of the 30s model with the infantry of the same 30s model, without heavy artillery, tanks or self-propelled guns is a meat grinder by the type of the Summa sector in December 1939. However, even worse - gifts with a caliber of 6 "-10" in 1939 they didn’t pour on the attackers.
        And most importantly - the Germans did not plan the initial Finnish attack on Leningrad on the Karelian Isthmus! In June 1941, the Germans demanded
        so that Field Marshal Mannerheim directs the main blow of his ground forces not through the Karelian Isthmus to Leningrad, but east of Lake Ladoga in the direction of Lodeynoye Field in Svir

        On August 2, the Germans again demanded an offensive north of Ladoga.
        Quote: Serg65
        On November 16, the Finns denied the Germans support for their attack on Tikhvin

        This is a Finnish interpretation of history.
        In fact, the German offensive on Tikhvin began on October 16, 1941. The Finns were preparing to support the offensive, but on October 21, 314 sd suddenly landed troops on the northern coast of Svir and seized the bridgehead. It was possible to bring down the landing from positions only on October 25.
        However, all Finns' actions until November 16 fit into a joint plan of action: the Finns were to go to the Svir line (check), forge opposing Soviet troops (check) and cover the flank of the German 163rd division, which was supposed to strike at Tikhvin (check )
        On November 9, the Germans take Tikhvin. It seems that the plan has been fulfilled ... but suddenly the Red Army makes a counterattack. And here the Germans, in violation of all plans and agreements, ask the Finns not only to cover 163 infantry units, but also to fight for the Germans in the German zone of responsibility. At the same time, they did not begin to advance their 163dp. smile
        Quote: Serg65
        from the middle of autumn of the 41st year the Finns began partial demobilization and by the spring of the 42nd 180 thousand soldiers, mostly older ones, had been demobilized!

        And they had no choice: the army gobbled up 16% of the population of Finland, a little more - and a full-fledged famine would begin. But the Reich does not have food - it’s not enough.
      2. grave
        grave 29 November 2019 22: 35 New
        +2
        At 42, by the summer, the Finns had plans for the capture of Leningrad. The plan for the offensive was drafted and agreed with the Germans. The Finns had just opened the archives (recently) in the public domain. They were going to take Peter in 42
  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 29 November 2019 09: 47 New
    +14
    And why did the Finns not go beyond the old border in the 41st? There was a chance!

    We got to where we could. If the Red Army did not stop, it is not known where they were.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 29 November 2019 11: 01 New
      +12
      Quote: glory1974
      We got to where we could. If the Red Army did not stop, it is not known where they were.

      Not certainly in that way. For some reason, Stalin did not insist on attracting Mannerheim to the Nuremberg trials.
      Stalin, through diplomats, handed over the condition of surrender to the Finnish government: "We will only accept such an agreement, which Marshal Mannerheim will stand for." When Herte Kuusinen was tasked with compiling a list of the main Finnish war criminals, Mannerheim was also on this list. Stalin Mannerheim crossed out in red pencil and wrote: "Do not touch."
      At the beginning of 1942, in response to regular questions from the Wehrmacht generals about the fate of the Finnish front, Mannerheim chopped off: "I will not advance anymore."
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 30 November 2019 03: 04 New
        0
        Churchill firmly stood up for the Finns during a meeting with
        Stalin in Tehran. Churchill admired Finland,
        and "did not give her an insult." Stalin promised Finland not to occupy
        after the defeat of Germany.
        In turn, the Finns pledged not to cut the Murmansk railway
        the path along which British military assistance to the USSR and American
        land lease.
    2. panzerfaust
      panzerfaust 29 November 2019 11: 54 New
      +8
      Mannerheim said stop. They took what they considered their lands. He wrote so in his memoirs.
  • Amurets
    Amurets 29 November 2019 14: 06 New
    +7
    Quote: Serg65
    And why did the Finns not go beyond the old border in the 41st? There was a chance!

    There is no Karelian Isthmus. There is such a word KaUR. “The Karelian fortified area was up to 80 kilometers along the front. It consisted of two defensive lines and a foreground. The main and rear defensive lines consisted of a chain of battalion defense areas (BWR), each of which, depending on the nature of the terrain, occupied an area of ​​3 up to 5 kilometers on the front and from 2 to 3 kilometers in depth and had to engage in a separate machine gun and artillery battalion.In total, 10 battalion defense areas were established within the main defensive line, which were stretched to chain from Sestroretsk, located on the shore of the Gulf of Finland, to Nikulyassk, located on the shore of Lake Ladoga. "Runov.V.A. All fortified areas and defensive lines of World War II "Pages 405-429 Karelian fortified area. Well, by reference, details.
    http://www.nortfort.ru/
  • grave
    grave 29 November 2019 22: 28 New
    +4
    Why didn’t we go? We went and ran to Svir and Petrozavodsk and they closed the Leningrad ring from the north near Beloostrov. Where their land was never there. Otherwise, they already had none at all, until 18
  • LeonidL
    LeonidL 30 November 2019 04: 44 New
    0
    They didn’t go because they didn’t let them in and there was no longer any chance.
  • Dimmedroll
    Dimmedroll 19 February 2020 21: 41 New
    0
    In fact, these lands were not Finnish, if you recall who Peter the first fought for the return of the northern territories of Russia in the Northern War. By the way, the lands that you call Finnish were part of the Novgorod Republic. And the Karelians were associated and friendly with the Novgorod Republic, and even one more moment on the castle island, where the Swedish fortress now stands in Vyborg, stood a Novgorod gatehouse with a small garrison to protect trade routes to the Karelians. I can continue on. But the Finns this land, belonged to the Swedes, only from the period. When the Swedes conquered these lands from Novgorod, and until Peter the first returned them to Russia and only the king and prince of Finland found and created Finland, for some hell he separated them from the land of Russia and transferred them to the newly formed principality. And the USSR simply returned the transferred lands.
  • zaches
    zaches 29 November 2019 10: 26 New
    +2
    It’s high time for the author of the article to start writing science fiction novels. It should work out fine, but it’s impossible to let him go for a kilometer in history, he really has a wild imagination.
  • Octopus
    Octopus 29 November 2019 15: 26 New
    -7
    Quote: Uncle Izya
    what about the dream of Mannerheim, Karl Gustav Emil to join Leningrad

    What are your reasons to believe that Gustav Karlovich was insane? I mean, why would he feed so many Russians? And quarrel about this with Britain?
    1. Moore
      Moore 30 November 2019 13: 14 New
      +1
      And why did you decide that he was going to feed the Russians?
      1. Octopus
        Octopus 30 November 2019 14: 07 New
        -4
        Quote: Moore
        why did you decide that he was going to feed the Russians?

        Because genocide of this scale would cause problems with Britain and the United States. And if you take the city, and then give it to the Germans to be genocide, then they will not leave nowhere.
        1. Moore
          Moore 1 December 2019 09: 28 New
          +1
          He would no longer have problems with Britain and the USA if Hitler and his coalition won.
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 1 December 2019 10: 00 New
            -2
            Quote: Moore
            He would no longer have problems with Britain and the USA if Hitler and his coalition won

            1. He would have had awesome problems with Britain and the USA. True, a much more expensive price for the latter.
            2. If Hitler and his coalition win, to be in the Finnish occupation zone is far from the saddest option, even taking into account all Finnish circumstances.
  • Overlock
    Overlock 29 November 2019 16: 23 New
    +4
    Quote: Uncle Izya
    So you think if you didn’t start a war in 1940, would the Finns be neutral?

    A small chronology:
    From 22 June 1941, German Luftwaffe bombers began using Finnish airfields. The first 43 German aircraft invaded USSR airspace from Finnish airspace at about 4 hours on June 22, 1941 over the Karelian Isthmus.
    25 1941 June years, the aircraft of the Northern Fleet and the Baltic Fleet carried out an air raid bombing 19 airfields in Finland, where German and Finnish planes were located (a total of 250 sorties were made by Soviet aviation).
    On the 25 June a session of the Finnish parliament was scheduled, at which, according to Mannerheim’s memoirs, Prime Minister Rungell had to makeFinland neutrality declaration in the Soviet-German conflict, but soviet bombing gave reason to say that Finland is again in a state of defensive war with the USSR.
    26 1941 June years, Finnish President R. Ryti announced that Finland "is at war with the USSR"
    1. albert
      albert 29 November 2019 23: 42 New
      +3
      Quote: Overlock
      Since June 22, 1941, German Luftwaffe bombers began using Finnish airfields. The first 43 German aircraft invaded USSR airspace from Finnish airspace at about 4 hours on June 22, 1941 over the Karelian Isthmus.

      They forgot to say about mine production. The Germans and Finns began to lay mines before the official declaration of war.
    2. LeonidL
      LeonidL 30 November 2019 04: 52 New
      +1
      Read Halder's diaries, reports of border guards, other sources - everything was planned in advance, just the Finns did not have time to deploy, mobilize and concentrate the troops by June 22nd. So little time that Goebbels, who instead of Hitler read out to the people about the declaration of war of the USSR, only Finland mentioned as a full ally. In addition, in Finland, as well as in all other countries of Europe and America, the GRU, Beria, and the Comintern (which will be called the Red Chapel), which had anti-fascist agents in governments and armies, acted very fruitfully. The fact that Finland entered the war on the side of Germany was not a secret for the leadership of the USSR, nor was the date of the 25th agreed with the German General Staff. We didn’t get close to any neutrality! Therefore, a preemptive strike was delivered ... following the example of the same Luftwaffe! Do not play along with mythologists.
  • Sneaky Urus
    Sneaky Urus 29 November 2019 10: 37 New
    +11
    The pharmacist is wrong. On the old border, the Finns did not stop of their own free will. As they try to rub us. So think about it, if the Finns traveled 200 km in a month, then what would happen if they started from Sestroretsk?
  • evgic
    evgic 29 November 2019 11: 12 New
    +12
    P. Apothecary is a well-known liar and Russophobe, his work in decent places even wipe disdain. So to refer to it is at least tactless. Read something else and do not litter comments.
  • RUSS
    RUSS 29 November 2019 14: 37 New
    -9
    Quote: Plantagenet
    Obtained during the "winter war" territory, for
    perhaps the exception is the base on Hanko and the peninsulas
    in the Arctic, did not play any significant
    role during the Great Patriotic War
    the war

    The Finns, for their part, did not fire at Leningrad, and despite Hitler's demand, Mannerheim forbade shelling of Leningrad from guns.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 29 November 2019 14: 41 New
      +6
      from the Finnish shore of the bay, at a distance of 21–23 km, fire was fired at the Krasnaya Gorka fort and other forts, Kotlin Island, the Fox Nose region, etc.? These numerous bombardments are confirmed by a range of evidence. And the Finns had long-range guns.
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 29 November 2019 14: 45 New
        +14
        For me, Finland at that moment was Hitler's ally and bore all responsibility for helping him to block the Leningrad ... this crime against humanity and the Finns should be responsible for this.
    2. grave
      grave 29 November 2019 22: 37 New
      +4
      He did not forbid anything.
    3. Amurets
      Amurets 29 November 2019 23: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: RUSS
      The Finns, for their part, did not fire at Leningrad, and despite Hitler's demand, Mannerheim forbade shelling of Leningrad from guns.

      And what was it from? Therefore, the Finns frantically restored the railway artillery that they went to Hanko.
      "The history of the restoration by the Finnish engineers and workers of the Soviet railway gun mounts TM-III-12 and TM-I-180 is, in our opinion, of considerable interest.
      The Finns rated all four guns of the 17th Soviet Battery, which they had received as trophies at Hanko, as “not very damaged” {161}.
      The history of the restoration by the Finnish engineers and workers of the Soviet railway gun mounts TM-III-12 and TM-I-180 is, in our opinion, of considerable interest.
      The Finns rated all four guns of the 17th Soviet Battery, which they had received as trophies at Hanko, as “not very damaged” {161}.
      180 mm conveyors were immediately sent for repairs to the state artillery factory in the city of Jyväskylä. This enterprise carried out the main work on the restoration of Soviet transporters. 180 mm conveyors were immediately sent for repairs to the state artillery factory in the city of Jyväskylä. This enterprise carried out the main work on the restoration of Soviet transporters. As a result, by the end of 1942, the Finnish army became the owner of six Soviet-made TM-I-180 artillery systems. [227]
      Restoration of Soviet 305 mm gun mounts
      And what happened at that time to the fate of the guns of the former 9th battery, three 305 mm TM-III-12 railway installations, which also became prisoners of the Finnish army in a whirlwind of World War II?

      When the Finns returned to the Hanko Peninsula, they found all three gun mounts at positions in Tyaktom. There were no carts. There was also a lack of much more of what constituted the battery itself: steam locomotives, arsenal cars, a fire control car, a repair car, etc.

      Damage caused directly to the guns was extremely serious. This was especially true for trunks. Bragin V.I. Guns on rails. - M .: publication of the author, 2006. - 472 p., Ill. - Circulation 500 copies. Author's abstract: The book “Guns on Rails” introduces the reader to the history of the creation and development of railway artillery in Russia and abroad, tracing the fate of the outstanding works of Russian military engineering — the TM-III-12 and TM-I-180 railway gun mounts, against the background dramatic events that our country went through in the XNUMXth century. Written in a lively and understandable language, the book will be of interest to everyone who cares about Russian military history. "
      http://militera.lib.ru/tw/0/one/bragin_vi.rar
    4. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2019 04: 25 New
      +6
      Quote: RUSS
      Mannerheim forbade shelling of Leningrad with guns.

      Did he know about this?
    5. LeonidL
      LeonidL 30 November 2019 04: 53 New
      +3
      An old old fairy tale from a liberal mythological party!
  • Ham
    Ham 2 December 2019 15: 57 New
    +1
    Quote: Plantagenet
    From July 10 to August 10 Finnish Karelian
    the army occupied the territory that was before March 12, 1940
    Finnish years.

    that is, for an entire MONTH delayed the attack on Leningrad! in the conditions of the “blitzkrieg” of 1941 this is a real feat ...
    according to the Barbaros plan, Leningrad in August 1941 should already have fallen ...
    so in vain the Pharmacist tries to smear everything with feces ...
  • Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 29 November 2019 07: 42 New
    +7
    All this is very reminiscent of the current state of affairs in the Baltic .....
  • Strashila
    Strashila 29 November 2019 07: 46 New
    +9
    The Finnish company has once again shown that externally small independent states can serve as a springboard for attacks by other states. In the Finnish trenches, Norwegians, independent Swedes, French, British, Americans and German Nazis sat shoulder to shoulder. The main achievement that they were able to push the border from Leningrad.
    1. Plantagenet
      Plantagenet 29 November 2019 08: 33 New
      -21
      "What did the Soviet Union get so terrible
      at the cost of?
      According to the Moscow agreement of March 12
      1940 territories on Karelsky entered its structure
      isthmus with the cities of Vyborg and Kexholm,
      part of South and Middle Karelia, Kuolajärvi district in
      Arctic, several islands in the Gulf of Finland and
      the right to establish a naval base on the peninsula
      Hanko.
      However, territorial acquisitions turned around
      big losses: the Soviet Union was expelled
      December 14, 1939 from the League of Nations as an aggressor,
      once in a dubious company with Japan,
      Italy and Germany.
      Finland has turned from a potential enemy
      in obligatory, which was confirmed in the summer of 1941
      years when the Finnish army took one and a half to two months
      forests and fields abundantly watered with Soviet blood
      soldier."

      P. Apothecary "Soviet-Finnish War"
    2. Trapperxnumx
      Trapperxnumx 29 November 2019 08: 57 New
      -17
      What attack? Which states? Who attacked us then? Have the courage to admit that this was an erroneous decision of our leadership, which on the eve of a grandiose racket turned an already troubled neighbor into a clear enemy. And the fact that people of different nations were sitting in the trenches is precisely because of the “weak beats”. Remember Spain, there, too, they fought against Franco
      For the whole world, the USSR became an aggressor and was expelled from the League of Nations.
      1. strannik1985
        strannik1985 29 November 2019 09: 47 New
        +16
        What attack?

        The most ordinary that was written in their military doctrine.
        The first version of the plan, VK 1, assumed an extremely favorable situation for Finland, in which the armed forces of the Soviet Union also fought against European countries throughout its western borders and did not have enough forces to confront the Finnish army ...
        To the north of Ladoga, the Finnish units had to go on the offensive from the Pitkäranta-Suojärvi area with the task of reaching the level of Tuloks-Vedlozero-Syamozero.
        Farther north, the Finns were supposed to go on the offensive from the Lieks-Kuhmo region, capture the Rebols and be ready to develop an offensive on Rugozero. In the Suomussalmi region, Finnish ski teams were also supposed to cross the border, capture Voknavolok and continue the offensive in the depths of East Karelia and on the Murmansk railway.
        (c) Bair Irincheev. "Stalin’s flabbergasted victory. Storming the Mannerheim Line."
        1. Trapperxnumx
          Trapperxnumx 30 November 2019 12: 53 New
          0
          Doctrines may be different. And military plans too. We have some "historians" and "writers" who, on the phrase "we will beat the enemy with little blood and on its territory," say that the USSR was preparing aggression against Germany. Yes, even if there was such a plan, so what? It’s just staff work — making plans and doctrines. But with truly "aggressive" plans, they do not spend the entire military budget on bunkers.
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 30 November 2019 14: 57 New
            0
            Yes, even if there was such a plan, so what?

            Of course nothing laughing Two wars in which Finland was an aggressor, VK-1 and the signing of a secret military alliance with Estonia and Sweden did not say anything, the Soviet leadership "seemed" good
    3. Fraracol_2
      Fraracol_2 4 December 2019 21: 19 New
      -1
      So did the Finns attack?
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 29 November 2019 07: 58 New
    +13
    The article is informative, outlines what was once stated in Soviet school textbooks. But the textbooks have long been rewritten with Soros money, so an extra repetition of these facts will only be beneficial. Plus set.
  • Basil50
    Basil50 29 November 2019 08: 04 New
    +12
    It is a pity that the author did not specify HOW exactly the Finns started the war in 1918 and in 1921 and in 1939 and 1941.
    All Finnish wars began with provocations on the border, and before that they carried out general mobilization. In the three millionth Finland managed to gather armies for more than half a million soldiers.
    In 1920, 1922, in 1940, when the Finns were forced to conclude a peace, to justify the conclusion of a peace treaty, they handed a note to the Soviet Union on declaring war.
    Only in 1941 did the Finns declare war on the fourth day after the outbreak of hostilities.
    1. Octopus
      Octopus 29 November 2019 16: 18 New
      -8
      Quote: Vasily50
      HOW exactly the Finns started the war

      This is a great story.
      https://site.ua/yuriy.gudimenko/2729/
      I can’t insert the whole, a lot of mat.
      Quote: Vasily50
      in 1918

      In 1917 in Petrograd, some strange people called themselves the council of workers 'and soldiers' deputies and announced that they were the power here and it was time to surrender to the German. In particular, there appeared a certain Lenin, Bronstein, Sverdlov, and so on. After that, in 1918, friends of the comrades mentioned declared themselves power in Finland. They managed to shoot. With some sorting, I do not argue. With the help of, surprisingly, the Germans. These comrades and Germans got it very quickly.

      In Petrograd, they failed to shoot on time. In the capital, liberals betrayed Russia, as usual. Kerensky, Rodzianko, Prince Lviv, etc.
      Quote: Vasily50
      in 1921

      There was no war. There were Finnish-speaking supporters of federalization.
      Can't resist
      Finland. And this is not me.

      Soviet Russia (retreating). Who?

      Finland. Volunteers.

      Soviet Russia. What nafig volunteers?

      Finland. Voluntary

      Soviet Russia. We captured the officers of the Finnish army!

      Finland. They quit yesterday.

      Soviet Russia (thoughtfully). Also an interesting idea. (writing in a notebook) "They ... quit ..." (loudly) But what about these troops? This is the Finns!

      Finland. They got lost.

      Soviet Russia (continuing to record). "For the blu-di-lis ..."

      Ukraine (from afar, suspiciously). Russia, don’t you take notes there?

      Soviet Russia (quickly hiding a notebook). Nothing, nothing ...

      Ended up with "strengthening the border regime."
      Quote: Vasily50
      in 1939

      USSR (building up troops). Ta-a-ak, small Finnish lilacs. And now we will play.

      Finland (nervously). Wait, wait ... "Building fortifications" ... "Mobilization" ...

      USSR (arrogantly). You are this ... Crawl away. You are too close to Leningrad.

      Finland (not distracted). Crawl itself.

      THE USSR. Well then, let me put military bases at you.

      Finland (absentmindedly). "Molotov Cocktail" ... "Invent" ...

      THE USSR. And give me those islands, oh oh

      Finland (building fortifications). All. Now you can. (Russia) I went to the forest!

      THE USSR. Oh well ... Okay.

      (USSR shells its own territory on the Finnish border)

      Finland (with irony). Can I help you?

      USSR (loudly). So, everyone saw? Finland shelled me!

      (USSR enters troops into Finland, the third Soviet-Finnish war begins)

      USSR (advancing). Surrender, little lilac.

      Finland (slowly backing away). Surrender yourself.

      USSR (thoughtfully). This is some kind of wrong Finland.

      (The USSR creates a puppet Finnish government and signs a friendship treaty with it)

      Finland (surprised). To go nuts. And so it was possible?

      Quote: Vasily50
      1941's

      Finland. Where are Latvia and Lithuania?

      USSR (smug). You wanted to say the Latvian and Lithuanian Soviet republics?

      Finland. Russia, in my opinion, you are cheating. You have too much land.

      USSR (stroking himself in Estonia). Here and for you there is a place, Finland.

      Finland (with a German accent). Nine.

      USSR (surprised). I'm sorry, what?

      Finland. Stalin East Schwein. Russia kaput. Untermensch, Hyundai Hoh.

      (The Third Reich and Finland enter into an alliance and attack the USSR together)

      USSR (fighting off). Oh well, as much as you can, petty vindictive rubbish!

      Finland (approaching Leningrad). We play, have you forgotten?

      The Third Reich (joyfully). That's right, Finland! Take Leningrad!

      USSR (retreating). Get away from my Leningrad, dog!

      Finland. Leningrad is not Finnish. Leningrad is not needed.
    2. Fraracol_2
      Fraracol_2 4 December 2019 21: 22 New
      -1
      It is a pity that the author did not specify HOW exactly the Finns started the war in 1918 and in 1921 and in 1939 and in 1941. - that is, the Finns did start the war in 39? !!!
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 29 November 2019 08: 06 New
    -16
    First, aggressive nationalists came to power in Finland

    At the time of the VOR, Russian troops stood in the Finnish parliament.

    And the nationalist Svinuhud mentioned by the author recognized the legitimacy of the actions of the Russian government.

    The Finns declared independence only AFTER the Thief (like all other Ukraine) on the basis of its stupid decrees and the treacherous declaration of the rights of peoples. The Bolsheviks recognized her, although no one even asked for them: the Finns turned to the CSS, and not to the impostors.

    So Finland hostile for decades is a pure thief product

    2) communist ideology suggested the indispensable replacement of capitalism with socialism. However, none of the Soviet leadership in the 1930s claimed that the Red Army was going to invade any state in order to overthrow the local government and establish Soviet power, socialism. On the contrary, everywhere it was said that the peoples themselves will make revolutions in their countries.

    1. That's right: this was the goal of the then ISIS of the Comintern-the violent overthrow of the armed forces and the establishment of socialism in all countries
    2. Yeah, themselves, NO6 should help them the USSR. The author loves to remember so much
    Stalin I.V.
    On the tasks of business executives:
    Speech at the First All-Union Conference
    socialist industry workers

    And here he does not want to remember, but it is necessary, so:
    This is what our obligations to the workers and peasants of the USSR dictate to us.

    But we still have other, more serious and more important commitments. It - obligations to the world proletariat. They coincide with the obligations of the first kind. But we put them higher. The working class of the USSR is part of the world working class. We won not only through the efforts of the working class of the USSR, but also thanks to the support of the world working class. Without such support, we would have been pecked for a long time. They say that Our country is the shock brigade of the proletariat of all countries. That is well said. But this imposes serious obligations on us. For what is the international proletariat supporting us, how have we earned such support? By the fact that we were the first to rush into the battle with capitalism, we were the first to establish workers' power, we were the first to build socialism. The fact that we are doing a thing that, if successful, will turn the whole world up and free the whole working class. We must move forward so that the working class of the whole world, looking at us, can say: here it is, my forward detachment, here it is, my shock brigade, here it is, my working power, here it is, my fatherland - they do their business, our business is good - support them against the capitalists and inflate the cause of world revolution. Should we live up to the expectations of the world working class, should we fulfill our obligations to it? Yes should,.


    These are the ones themselves. It turns out what the USSR is for: for the World Revolution.belay

    This is the article that says that they ...Did not have earlier ... of the Fatherland.

    Suvorov, Kutuzov, Minin and others hundreds of millions Russian Fatherland was, but they do not ... request
    1. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 29 November 2019 08: 56 New
      +11
      So Finland hostile for decades is a pure thief product

      And then do not tell
      At the time of the VOR, Russian troops were in the Finnish parliament

      for what reason were they standing there? With "non-hostile" Finns bouquets exchanged? wassat
      I don’t even want to explain about the misunderstanding of everything else.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 29 November 2019 10: 20 New
        -17
        Quote: A vile skeptic

        And then do not tell
        At the time of the VOR, Russian troops were in the Finnish parliament

        for what reason were they standing there? With "non-hostile" Finns bouquets exchanged?

        So open the textbook and gain knowledge.

        AND ONCE AGAIN - especially for tankers:
        the nationalist Svinuhud mentioned by the author acknowledged actions of the Russian government.
        Quote: A vile skeptic
        About misunderstanding everything else, even explain I do not want.

        Can't wassat
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 29 November 2019 10: 44 New
          +10
          the nationalist Svinuhud mentioned by the author recognized the legitimacy of the actions of the Russian government

          Does this somehow refute the fact that, starting with Alexander III, the Principality of Finland became increasingly dissatisfied with its presence in the Republic of Ingushetia, right up to an open confrontation? And according to Svinuhud and what he said ... when, relatively speaking, a weapon is directed at you, you will say anything, the initial point of view will only strengthen from this, which will result in even more radical further actions when the immediate threat disappears. Only.
          Can't

          I agree. Desire (want) and opportunities (maybe) must coincide. And since I am not a magician and do not even learn to be one, I will give you the ability to analyze historical processes, and indeed to any analysis of information, beyond my capabilities, and therefore there is no such desire. Sometimes of course I can’t stand it when you start frankly pouring.
          So open the tutorial

          what for? I do not want to read the textbook “spherical in a vacuum”, but your answer to the question.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 29 November 2019 11: 11 New
            -14
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            Does this somehow refute the fact that, starting with Alexander III, the Principality of Finland became increasingly dissatisfied with its presence in the Republic of Ingushetia, right up to an open confrontation?

            Yes.
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            And according to Swinuhuood and what he said ... when, relatively speaking, a weapon is directed at you, you will say anything

            Do not carry nonsense: this man was not afraid of ANYTHING. Read, at least. his biography
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            Can't

            I agree. Desire (want) and opportunities (may) must match. And since I'm not a magician and I’m not even learning to be one, I’ll give you the ability to analyze historical processes, and indeed to any analysis of information, out my abilities, and therefore and desires this no.


            I understand you: when, um, "can’t", what is already here, yes, "desire" yes request
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            and why? I want to read not the “spherical in vacuum” textbook, but your answer to the question.

            oh, already ... maybe ?! belay lol

            Then, to the textbook! yes
        2. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 2 December 2019 05: 22 New
          0
          [quote = Olgovich]
          So open the textbook and gain knowledge.
          [Quote]
          I am sure you will advise the great N.K. Svanidze.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 2 December 2019 10: 42 New
            -6
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            I am sure you will advise the great N.K. Svanidze.

            belay
            I recommend: "Introduction to the history of Russia. Grade 3. Saplina E.V., Saplin A.I. hi
            1. Mavrikiy
              Mavrikiy 2 December 2019 16: 29 New
              -1
              Quote: Olgovich
              Quote: Mavrikiy
              I am sure you will advise the great N.K. Svanidze.

              belay
              I recommend: "Introduction to the history of Russia. Grade 3. Saplina E.V., Saplin A.I. hi
              Why so hard. They have for 1st grade. The world. As a victim of the exam, pull. hi
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 3 December 2019 09: 29 New
                -5
                Quote: Mavrikiy
                Why so difficult.

                Sorry to think well of you. hi
                1. Mavrikiy
                  Mavrikiy 4 December 2019 07: 15 New
                  -2
                  And I immediately realized that I was dealing with a Russophobe (pouring mud on the history of Russia, there can be no other).
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 4 December 2019 09: 49 New
                    -4
                    Quote: Mavrikiy
                    And I immediately understood I'm dealing with Russophobe

                    So I about it: to "understand" is clearly not yours. hi
    2. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 29 November 2019 09: 14 New
      +12
      We must move forward so that the working class of the whole world, looking at us, could say: here it is, my forward detachment, here it is, my shock brigade, here it is, my working power, here it is, my fatherland - they are doing their job, our job is good, - support them against the capitalists and inflate the cause of the world revolution

      We look in the book - we see a fig.
      This is not a phrase constructed on behalf of the USSR, but on behalf of workers of other countries who, seeing the example of the USSR, will themselves carry out socialist revolutions and thereby support us, the USSR, and not vice versa. For the USSR, the task is to create a society within itself so that workers in other countries want to follow this example.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 29 November 2019 10: 31 New
        -14
        Quote: A vile skeptic
        We look in the book - we see a fig.


        You are self-critical about yourself, but rightly. lol
        Quote: A vile skeptic
        This phrase is not built on behalf of the USSR, but on behalf of workers of other countries who, seeing the example of the USSR,

        Correctly:
        But we still have other, more serious and more important commitments. This is aboutcommitment to the world proletariat.

        OBLIGATIONS are there before the span. Got it?

        And they, span-you, "support them against the capitalists and inflate the cause of the world revolution
        Against the capitalists is within itself, like the world. roar. yes lol

        By the way, as the USSR “proclaimed” the world proletariat, the Second World War showed: this 2 proletariat “came to the state of workers and peasants and arranged such atrocities with us that no kplatators did.
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 29 November 2019 11: 06 New
          +9
          OBLIGATIONS are there before the span

          Yes. Only these obligations are not
          support them against the capitalists and inflate the cause of the world revolution

          а
          They coincide with obligations of the first kind.

          But these same obligations of the first kind, which are obligations to other workers of the world, were not included in your passage, they are earlier in the text of the speech at the first All-Union Conference of Workers of Socialist Industry. Namely:
          Sometimes they ask whether it is possible to slow down the pace somewhat, to keep the movement. No, you can’t, comrades! You can not slow down! On the contrary, to the extent of their strength and capabilities, they must be increased. Our obligations to the workers and peasants of the USSR demand this from us. Our obligations to the working class of the whole world demand this from us.

          And the pace of what and in what? It was also written earlier:
          the existence of a system that would be free from the incurable diseases of capitalism and which would give serious advantages over capitalism.

          the presence of a party that is sufficiently cohesive and united to direct the efforts of all the best people of the working class to one point, and experienced enough to not drift in front of difficulties

          The task, therefore, is to master the technology ourselves, to become the masters of the business ourselves. Only this is the guarantee that our plans will be fully implemented, and one-man management will be carried out.
          This business, of course, is not easy, but quite surmountable. Science, technical experience, knowledge - all this business is acquired. Today they are not, but tomorrow they will be. The main thing here is to have a passionate Bolshevik desire to master technology, to master the science of production.

          Against the capitalists is within itself, like the world. roar. yes

          Once again, for those who see nevermind, not inside themselves - that passage was written on behalf of not workers of the USSR, but workers of other countries. But these countries are naturally capitalist. So there is no contradiction. Unless of course you understand what is written.
          came to the state of workers and peasants and arranged such atrocities

          so the USSR is guilty of all other sins? belay
          What a wonderful, not biased position
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 29 November 2019 16: 30 New
            -4
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            What a wonderful, not biased position

            This is your position is rather strange. You should be aware that socialism was built in the years 45-50 in many places where the Red Army visited, but the proletariat behaved very restrained. The active role of the proletariat with respect to the Red Army was observed precisely in those places where the cat burst into tears of this proletariat. For example, in China.

            So it’s a little strange to find out what Comrade Stalin said there. We know what he did after that.
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 29 November 2019 18: 18 New
              +3
              This is your position is rather strange.

              Will it not be difficult for you to voice “my position”? So that later it would be possible to find out what was strange about her?
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 29 November 2019 18: 30 New
                -2
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                This is not a phrase constructed on behalf of the USSR, but on behalf of workers of other countries who, seeing the example of the USSR, will themselves carry out socialist revolutions and thereby support us, the USSR, and not vice versa. For the USSR, the task is to create a society within itself so that workers in other countries want to follow this example.
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 29 November 2019 18: 45 New
                  +5
                  This is not my position, this is the position of the semantics of the Russian language. The passage you quoted is a consideration of the semantics of the passage from Stalin’s speech.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 30 November 2019 10: 09 New
            -7
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            Once again, for those who see nevermind, not inside themselves - that passage was written on behalf of not workers of the USSR, but workers of other countries.

            YOU saw a fig, in which they admitted:
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            We look in the book - we see a fig.

            And continue to admire her, which, however, you do often.
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            that passage was written not on behalf of the USSR, but working other countries

            And they write (Third time I write for a fan of figs)
            will support them against the capitalists and inflate the cause of the world revolution


            WHERE are the capitalists against whom the USSR will SPEAK and whom they will support, eh? IN USSR?! fool And the world. is the revolution there too? lol
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            so the USSR is guilty of all other sins?
            What a wonderful, not biased position

            I do not know. even as you say: stupidity to blame, no?
    3. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 29 November 2019 19: 46 New
      +5
      Quote: Olgovich
      So Finland hostile for decades is a pure thief product

      With such an "analytical" mind you have to work in a weather forecast bureau. Finland is a product of the development of capitalism in Russia. The bourgeoisie, which stood at the helm of power in Finland, defended its markets. In order to gain the support of the population, it adopted the Russophobic nationalism, which very quickly embraced the majority of the Finnish people, these ideas in Finland turned out to be stronger than the ideas of socialism. Not everything went smoothly. with the national question in tsarist Russia. .
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 30 November 2019 10: 27 New
        -10
        Quote: Alexander Green
        With such an "analytical" mind you have to work in a weather forecast bureau.

        fool
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Finland is a product of the development of capitalism in Russia. The bourgeoisie, which stood at the helm of power in Finland, defended its markets,

        Are you a "product" too, and?
        And Bremen, Hamburg, why not defend themselves from Germany?
        Quote: Alexander Green
        In order to gain the support of the population, she adopted Russophobic nationalism, which quickly captured the majority of the Finnish people, these ideas in Finland turned out to be stronger than the ideas of socialism. So, not everything went smoothly with the national question in tsarist Russia. .

        in tsarist Russia, everything was just NORMAL -NO warsbut with YOU-Five pieces behind 25 years.

        It is a fact.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 30 November 2019 12: 45 New
          +4
          Quote: Olgovich
          in tsarist Russia, it was just all NORMAL-NO wars, but with YOU-FIVE pieces in 25 years.

          It is a fact.

          The fact is compelling for the mentally retarded.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 30 November 2019 13: 25 New
            -10
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Irresistible fact for the mentally retarded.

            those. you are recognized. yes

            Facts, they are, yes, stubborn.
            Maladets! hi
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 30 November 2019 15: 25 New
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              ... you are recognized.
              Facts, they are, yes, stubborn

              I admit: the fact is compelling for mentally remaining patients from ward No. 6.
              Have you already been released from there?
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 1 December 2019 09: 08 New
                -6
                Quote: Alexander Green
                I acknowledge: compelling fact for mentally rest patients from ward No. 6.

                belay
                Yes, I already realized that for You it is irresistible, I already wrote.

                Or do you also like praise? Understand....

                Please: Maladets! yes
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 1 December 2019 12: 14 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Please: Maladets!

                  So you have already been discharged, but not treated ... Weak current medicine ....
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 1 December 2019 12: 34 New
                    -6
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    irresistible for the mentally retarded.

                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    So you have already been discharged, but not treated ..

                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    : The fact is compelling for the mentally remaining patients from ward No. 6.


                    your “substantive” comments and arguments are the same. yes

                    Therefore, everything. Tired of .....
        2. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 2 December 2019 06: 16 New
          +2
          LOVER normal facts. fool Olgovich (Andrey) There was no normal country, although it fought less. So the environment has become more aggressive and inadequate.
          In 1912, the Lensky execution of workers took place, which caused a significant resonance in the Russian Empire. During the reign of Nicholas II, according to incomplete data, not counting deaths from starvation and large-scale epidemics, during the dispersal of demonstrations, about 50000 people were killed and wounded, about 30000 people died in prisons, only from 1905 to 1912 in the Russian Empire during various pogroms killed 20000 and injured 30000 people.
          Despite one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world (30% of children died before age 5). In the average wage of the factory worker, it lagged behind developed countries by about two times, and in educational expenses by about 10 times; life expectancy in Russia was about one and a half times less than developed countries. In 1914, Russia, having the world's largest public debt, entered the First World War on the side of the Entente. According to Western sources, by the time of leaving the war, the total losses of the Russian Imperial Army amounted to 1,7 million killed and died from wounds; 4,95 million wounded and 2,5 million prisoners of war
          Continuous terrorist attacks and revolutions.
          statistics on terrorism at the beginning of the 1905th century. So, during the year, starting in October 3611, 1907 government officials were killed and wounded in the Russian Empire. By the end of 4500, this number had increased to almost 2180 people. Together with 2530 killed and 1905 wounded individuals, the total number of victims in 1907-9000 was more than 1908 people. According to official statistics, from January 1910 to mid-May 19957, 732 terrorist acts and expropriations occurred, as a result of which 3051 government officials and 1022 private individuals were killed, while 2829 government officials and XNUMX private individuals were injured.

          Assuming that a significant part of the local terrorist attacks did not fall into official statistics, the total number of those killed and wounded as a result of terrorist acts in 1901-1911 is estimated to be about 17000 people.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 2 December 2019 10: 53 New
            -4
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            LOVER normal facts. fool Olgovich (Andrey) There was no normal country, although it fought less. So the environment has become more aggressive and inadequate.
            In 1912, the Lensky execution of workers took place, which caused a significant resonance in the Russian Empire. During the reign of Nicholas II, according to incomplete data, not counting deaths from starvation and large-scale epidemics, during the dispersal of demonstrations, about 50000 people were killed and wounded, about 30000 people died in prisons, only from 1905 to 1912 in the Russian Empire during various pogroms killed 20000 and injured 30000 people.
            Despite one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world (30% of children died before age 5). In the average wage of the factory worker, it lagged behind developed countries by about two times, and in educational expenses by about 10 times; life expectancy in Russia was about one and a half times less than developed countries. In 1914, Russia, having the world's largest public debt, entered the First World War on the side of the Entente. According to Western sources, by the time of leaving the war, the total losses of the Russian Imperial Army amounted to 1,7 million killed and died from wounds; 4,95 million wounded and 2,5 million prisoners of war
            Continuous terrorist attacks and revolutions.
            statistics on terrorism at the beginning of the 1905th century. So, during the year, starting in October 3611, 1907 government officials were killed and wounded in the Russian Empire. By the end of 4500, this number had increased to almost 2180 people. Together with 2530 killed and 1905 wounded individuals, the total number of victims in 1907-9000 was more than 1908 people. According to official statistics, from January 1910 to mid-May 19957, 732 terrorist acts and expropriations occurred, as a result of which 3051 government officials and 1022 private individuals were killed, while 2829 government officials and XNUMX private individuals were injured.

            Assuming that a significant part of the local terrorist attacks did not fall into official statistics, the total number of those killed and wounded as a result of terrorist acts in 1901-1911 is estimated to be about 17000 people.


            Yes Yes:
            The red-haired one was quite comfortable with the situation and quite sensibly, albeit monotonously, told the contents of the mass brochure "Rebellion on Ochakovo." (c) ST
            lol laughing
            he is:
            he adorned his dry exposition with details so picturesque that the chairman, who was already beginning to calm down, pricked up his ears again. However, he let the brothers go in peace, and they ran out into the street, feeling great relief.

            So I let you go in peace, along with "Lena's execution and other Nonsense.

            By the way, from there: "Stealing is a sin!" (C): you stole someone else's article and without a twinge of conscience signed yourself. Fi ...
            1. Mavrikiy
              Mavrikiy 2 December 2019 16: 05 New
              0
              Olgovich (Andrey) By the way, from the same place: "Stealing is a sin!" (C): you stole someone else's article and without a twinge of conscience signed yourself. Fi ...
              What do you write nonsense? Where is the signature? Quoted - quote.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 3 December 2019 07: 36 New
                -5
                Quote: Mavrikiy
                What do you write nonsense? Where signature? Quoted - quote.

                Your nickname, no? Whose quote is stolen?
  • Amurets
    Amurets 29 November 2019 08: 22 New
    +11
    The position of “neutral” Sweden is also interesting. The Swedes in 1930 concluded a secret agreement with Estonia and Finland that in the event of their conflict with the USSR, Sweden would not formally declare war on the Russians. However, de facto Swedes will help ships, planes and ground forces under the guise of volunteers.
    Well, about the Swedes and no conversation. According to the memoirs of S.I. Kabanov, the Swedish volunteers really participated on the Finnish side in the hostilities against the Navy Hanko. The Swedes really helped with the ships by building two Ilmarinen and Väinemäinen BRBOs, the armament of which was the Bofors artillery. And later, the Swedes supplied their artillery weapons. About aviation, here the Swedes could not deliver anything.
    “Soviet troops in the amount of 20 divisions attacked all borders with Finland, they were supported by about 2800 combat aircraft. Finland could oppose them only nine divisions and 114 combat aircraft, most of which were outdated. Everything but resembled the battle of David and Goliath.
    The LLv 24 fokers D.XXI made notable strides from the start, knocking down twelve bombers on the second day of the war. They shot down a dozen more bombers on December 19. Bristol Blenheim bombers were used only for long-range reconnaissance, and other units switched to night work to avoid losses. "S. Ivanov, Finnish Air Force 1939-1945 Photo Archive (War in the Air - 105)
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 29 November 2019 11: 18 New
      +5
      Quote: Amurets
      The Swedes really helped with the ships by building two Ilmarinen and Väinemäinen BRBOs, the armament of which was the Bofors artillery.

      Formally, the Finnish BRBOs were built in Finland on the Creighton Volcano. But in fact, in the design and construction of Finnish BRBOs, many were noted - the Dutch (more precisely, the Germans under the guise of the Dutch), the Swedes, the Danes, the British.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 29 November 2019 08: 28 New
    -16
    “On June 29, 1937, the Finnish plane violated the border in the Olonets region. On July 9, 1938, the Finnish plane violated the Soviet border in the vicinity of border pillar No. 699. Flying at an altitude of 1500 m, the plane went deeper into the USSR for 45 km and flew about 85 km "parallel to the border line along Soviet territory, then returned to Finland in the area of ​​border post No. 728."
    And the Finnish border dog ran into our territory and lifted its paw at the post number 699, which is a blatant provocation of the Finnish military against the USSR.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 29 November 2019 08: 35 New
    -8
    Quote: Aviator_
    But textbooks have long been rewritten with Soros money

    Sergey, did you read these transcribed textbooks? All? Well, say, at least a textbook on the history of Russia for the 10th grade of the 1998 edition. I once cited several, two certainly, textbooks of those years in the article “Let's write a history textbook”. It would be nice for you to look into them. Then your statements would be more conclusive. Especially with pages or even scans. Just to write such a thing - to say nothing. It is clear that there is no time, that we are all busy, but still ...
  • Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx 29 November 2019 08: 36 New
    -1
    No, well, honestly, I do not justify Finland’s behavior in the period from 1917 to 1944, but to assert the peacefulness of the Soviet state, and especially this paragraph
    Therefore, Moscow during this period did not have any aggressive plans for Finland. This only liberals and Russophobes believe that Stalin (like the entire Soviet leadership) day and night only thought how to enslave Finland, as well as other neighboring countries and peoples. The anti-Soviet has two “iron” arguments: 1) Stalin - “ghoul”; 2) communist ideology implied the indispensable replacement of capitalism with socialism. However, none of the Soviet leadership in the 1930's claimed that the Red Army was going to invade any state in order to overthrow the local government and establish Soviet power, socialism. On the contrary, everywhere it was said that the peoples themselves would make revolutions in their countries.

    Well, I was extremely surprised.
    Are you afraid of a neighbor? Set up a fence taller and stronger, get a dog, start going to the gym, but break into his house ... Let's face it - against the background of events before the Second World War and especially from successes in adding territories in the Baltic states and in the west, the leadership of the USSR dizzy and they decided that everything was working out for them. Caught a wave, so to speak, and then some kind of weak Finland ...
    But it did not grow together, it did not grow together.
    I repeat once again - I don’t justify the behavior of Finland after the 17th, but this is not a reason to start provocations and start a war.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 29 November 2019 11: 24 New
      +4
      Quote: Trapper7
      Let's say it bluntly - against the background of the events before the Second World War and especially from the successes in adding territories in the Baltic states and in the west, the leadership of the USSR turned a little dizzy and decided that everything was working out for them. Caught a wave, so to speak, and then some kind of weak Finland ...

      Against the background of what is the addition of territories in the Baltic states? USSR until 1940 only was losing territories in favor of the Baltic states - giving Vilensky region to the Lithuanians.
      As for the behavior of the USSR, it was no different from what was generally accepted at that time. The same Great Britain was only one day late with the occupation of neutral Norway: when receiving a message about the German landing, RN had to delay the exit of the cruisers - it was necessary to unload the first echelon of landing from them.
      1. Octopus
        Octopus 29 November 2019 16: 46 New
        -5
        Quote: Alexey RA
        only lost territory in favor of the Baltic states - giving the Vilnius region to the Lithuanians.

        Excuse me, are you not too arrogant? The USSR was very supportive, giving Lithuania the Belarusian Vilnius. Where just the Polish flags finished shooting by that time.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        before the behavior of the USSR, it was no different from what was generally accepted at that time. The same UK was only a day late with the occupation of neutral Norway

        How to tell you. Internationally, the USSR was not very different from Britain. But after the occupation took place, it was very different. Moreover, if you look at northern Europe, on the example of Iceland, Norway, Estonia, you can say a lot about the state of workers and peasants in comparison with the bloody imperialists and no less bloody fascists. The USSR was, rather, a supporter of co-prosperity, if you know what I mean.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 29 November 2019 19: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: Octopus
          Excuse me, are you not too arrogant?

          Just in moderation. repeat
          Quote: Octopus
          The USSR was very supportive, giving Lithuania the Belarusian Vilnius.

          What kind of Belarusian Vilnius? What, in 1939 was an independent Belarus? belay

          The USSR gave the alien uncle - independent Lithuania - the territory that actually belonged to the USSR. More precisely - the BSSR. This is not a traditional inter-republican redistribution of territories within the Union, namely the surrender of its territory to another state.
          Quote: Octopus
          The USSR was, rather, a supporter of co-prosperity, if you know what I mean.

          Eight corners under one roof?
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 29 November 2019 22: 18 New
            -1
            Quote: Alexey RA
            The USSR gave the alien uncle - independent Lithuania - the territory that actually belonged to the USSR.

            Are you sure that just in moderation?
            In fact, the USSR belonged to Vilnius two weeks before. And you are well aware that the USSR did not coordinate territorial changes in Europe in the 39th year with Lithuania, even when it concerned it.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Eight corners under one roof?

            At that time, seventeen, if I do not confuse anything.
      2. Trapperxnumx
        Trapperxnumx 30 November 2019 13: 01 New
        -2
        The fact that the Soviet Union, my country, was able to peacefully and without the use of force actually (and then legally) annex the entire Baltic States to the USSR, as well as return Western Belarus, Ukraine, Bessarabia. So they decided that fart popper could take risks further.
        And yes, I agree that the actions of the USSR as well as the Republic of Ingushetia before that did not differ from the generally accepted ones, but ... it was precisely before this provocation with Finland. Vote the Finnish parliament for the entry of Soviet troops - there would be no problems. Conclude that same agreement on the exchange of territories - also no questions arose. But here the fact of direct aggression was obvious and evidence to the contrary has not yet been presented. I understand that for many this is a sore subject, but let's not hide our heads in the sand and pretend that there was nothing. Was it? It was.
        The decision was understandable, but in fact it turned out to be erroneous.
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 30 November 2019 14: 21 New
          -3
          Quote: Trapper7
          The fact that the Soviet Union, my country, was able to peacefully and without the use of force actually (and then legally) annex the entire Baltic States to the USSR, as well as return Western Belarus, Ukraine, Bessarabia

          You are confusing something. Finland followed Poland, the tribalts and especially Romania came after it. Pro without the use of force is especially funny.
          Quote: Trapper7
          Vote the Finnish parliament for the entry of Soviet troops - there would be no problems.

          And Finland would not have been until the 91st year.
          Quote: Trapper7
          Conclude that same agreement on the exchange of territories - also no questions arose

          Every ninth Finn whose houses crossed the USSR? Imagine on the scale of present-day Russia that 15 million people will say so: Come on, get out, we need to move the border here, it is not located right. Where to get out? There is a piece of taiga there, Far Eastern hectare, God forgive me.
          Quote: Trapper7
          The decision was understandable, but in fact it turned out to be erroneous

          This is a matter of faith. The main argument of the fans of I.V. Stalin - the Finns would still fall under the Germans and attack, this is in their anti-Soviet nature. The main argument of Mannerheim fans - the Finns, like all other Eastern Europeans, held on to Britain (and Sweden in the case of the Finns) as much as possible, and it was the actions of the USSR of the first WWII period that replaced pro-British politics in Finland (and Romania) to pro-German. In any case, this will be a matter of interpretation, not of a historical fact.
          1. Trapperxnumx
            Trapperxnumx 30 November 2019 14: 28 New
            0
            You are confusing something. Finland followed Poland, the tribalts and especially Romania came after it.

            Yes, you're right, thanks. Wrong. But in general, I did not answer you, but to Alexei.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 29 November 2019 08: 46 New
    +1
    Not a peaceful environment around our country was then and now! The Soviet leaders understood this and tried to push the threat as far away as possible from our cities, industrial and industrial centers!
    From a historical point of view, if you delve into it, you basically returned YOUR Russian!
    1. Nestorych
      Nestorych 29 November 2019 12: 38 New
      -3
      The lands torn away by the Finns were never Russian.))
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 29 November 2019 12: 45 New
        +4
        Finland was a province of Russia, before that a province of Sweden. Finland was never a STATE until 1917!
        1. Nestorych
          Nestorych 29 November 2019 12: 53 New
          -5
          NO! It was a VKF in which there were already 8 provinces!))) And isho is a parliament, its own national army, its own court and a monetary unit.))) The Russian provinces did not dream of it!
          And Kurland on the other side of the Baltic!))
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 29 November 2019 13: 39 New
            +4
            Quote: Nestorych
            And Kurland on the other side of the Baltic!))

            I corrected it.
            Quote: Nestorych
            VKF

            here it is, but a PROVINCE!
      2. Overlock
        Overlock 29 November 2019 16: 29 New
        +7
        Quote: Nestorych
        The lands torn away by the Finns were never Russian.))

        Everything that was part of the Russian Empire was Russian
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 29 November 2019 17: 12 New
          -3
          Quote: Overlock
          Everything that was part of the Russian Empire was Russian

          What did the Russian empire have to do with the Russians?
          1. Overlock
            Overlock 29 November 2019 17: 21 New
            +5
            Quote: Octopus
            What did the Russian empire have to do with the Russians?

            weird question? Alaverdi! what does Russia have, for example. to Tuva or Yakutia? They are not Russian.

            But for the enemy, whether you are Yakut or Buryat, you are still Russian.
            1. Octopus
              Octopus 29 November 2019 17: 44 New
              -6
              Quote: Overlock
              Yakut or you drill, you are still Russian.

              Well, if in this sense, then yes. Do not tell the Buryats, some may be upset.
              Quote: Overlock
              Everything that was part of the Russian Empire was Russian

              I did not immediately understand that you are an enemy.
  • BAI
    BAI 29 November 2019 09: 04 New
    +18
    If the border had not been pushed away from Leningrad, it would hardly have resisted during the war. Well, maybe it would turn into an analogue of Stalingrad with street battles and the complete destruction of the city.

    On 11 September 1941, the President of Finland, Risto Heikki Ruti, the German ambassador:
    “Leningrad must be eliminated as a large city.”

    And only due to the fact that the borders were pushed back, the Finns ran out of steam and stood up:

    After the invasion, the Finns suffered unexpected losses for them - by September 5, they amounted to 20 thousand people; many thought that, having reached the old borders, the Finnish army would stop and gain a foothold, and would not go further. All this demoralized the soldiers, sabotage and desertion began.

    After unsuccessful attempts to break through the defenses of the 23rd army on the Karelian Isthmus among Finnish soldiers it became reluctance to go forward openly. In response to an order on September 12 to cross the old border, 200 people refused to go ahead, 48th Infantry Regiment of the 18th Division, a significant number of soldiers of the 27th and 57th Infantry Regiments. Under the influence of the losses suffered in the August-September battles, the morale of the soldiers fell significantly.

    The German offensive from the south of the city was stifled, the storming of Leningrad by the Finns alone threatened huge losses, and under the threat of a large number of victims, as well as discontent from the Finnish soldiers, Mannerheim gave the order to gain a foothold on the reached line. Desertion and refusals to carry out the order forced Mannerheim’s headquarters to even carry out “educational work” in the army.


    According to Finnish researcher Harry Hainil, refusals to cross the old border on the Karelian Isthmus occurred in every second infantry regiment participating in the Finnish offensive. [23]

    23. Vanhan rajan ylitys jatkosodan hyökkäysvaiheessa 1941. Jalkaväkirykmentien miesten suhtautuminen siihen. Harri Heinilä, Ajankohta 1997, Toim. Timo Soikkanen, Karhu-Kopio Oy, Turku 1997 ISBN 951-29-1094-2. Crossing the old border in the offensive period of the continuation war. The attitude of soldiers of the infantry regiments to this. Harry Heinil, Political History Yearbook of the University of Helsinki and Turku Ajankohta 1997, p. 75.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 29 November 2019 09: 27 New
      0
      That’s so convincing and with the casting of p. And you have to give comments!
    2. Overlock
      Overlock 29 November 2019 16: 30 New
      +3
      Quote: BAI
      If the border had not been pushed away from Leningrad, it would hardly have resisted during the war.

      without a doubt! hi
  • smaug78
    smaug78 29 November 2019 09: 21 New
    +1
    How unlucky JV Stalin was that he did not have such a perspicacious conspirator as A. Samsonov laughing
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 29 November 2019 09: 35 New
    +3
    Which article is great, horror. I would answer with one phrase - "concern for state security.
  • Operator
    Operator 29 November 2019 09: 43 New
    +12
    It is enough that in the 1920s Finland repeatedly violated peace agreements with the RSFSR / USSR and attacked our country, as well as annexed the Pechenga region.

    Therefore, the USSR had every right to carry out retaliatory actions in relation to Finland in 1939–40.

    The same thing happened in 1999, when NATO violated the Helsinki Act on the inviolability of post-war borders in Europe and annexed Kosovo to Serbia by military force. Finland, as an official partner of NATO (Finnish military units are part of the NATO Response Force), is responsible for this annexation.
    1. Octopus
      Octopus 29 November 2019 16: 55 New
      0
      Quote: Operator
      Kosovo at Serbia. Finland, as an official partner of NATO (Finnish military units are part of the NATO Response Force), is responsible for this annexation.

      Not a fig yourself somersault.
      1. Operator
        Operator 29 November 2019 17: 48 New
        +7
        So I say - excellent exchange of Kosovo to Finland will turn out.
  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 29 November 2019 09: 56 New
    +8
    I must say that the Finns were offered an exchange of territories. If they moved away from Leningrad, then in return they would receive compensation in the form of a much larger territory in Karelia. In preparation for war, the Soviet government tried to secure the country's second largest and first industrial potential city. In fact, what was needed was the demarcation of borders that were inside the country, and then became external between two independent countries.
    But the Finns refused. Therefore war became inevitable
    The outcome of the war will probably be described in the following articles, so I will not get ahead of myself.
    1. Nestorych
      Nestorych 29 November 2019 12: 36 New
      -2
      Do not want to give territory, this is their right, and can not justify the outbreak of war.))
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 2 December 2019 09: 01 New
        -1
        Not wanting to give up territories is their right, and cannot serve as an excuse for starting a war.

        It's not about excuses, but about reasons.
        Earlier, Russia and Finland were one state, then they became independent. It was necessary to resolve the issue of borders. Peace talks had no result. It turned out what happened.
        But it is necessary to solve everything without war. Russia and China decided, with Azerbaijan, too.
    2. Octopus
      Octopus 29 November 2019 16: 56 New
      -2
      Quote: glory1974
      compensation in the form of a much larger territory in Karelia

      And to residents of Vyborg to cap in Karelia with things, or what?
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 2 December 2019 09: 03 New
        0
        And to residents of Vyborg to cap in Karelia with things, or what?

        And the inhabitants of Dagestan, after Medvedev gave the territory to Azerbaijan, where did they dig it? I think whoever wanted to, but there was no war.
  • New Year day
    New Year day 29 November 2019 10: 52 New
    +7
    Built submarines (three ships) became part of the Finnish Navy. These submarines became the prototypes for the German small series II submarines.

    Submarine "Vesikko" - until 1934 The submarines were tested by the German Navy as a prototype for their submarines of the II-A series (CV-707), and then was purchased by the Finns.


    July 3, 1941. East of the island of Hogland, the boat attacked and sank the Soviet transport Vyborg (3183 gross).
    Now the boat is in the fortress of Sveaborg
  • Nestorych
    Nestorych 29 November 2019 10: 54 New
    +4
    Cheap excuse! But why is it ?! Yes, both countries of the USSR and Finland had their own interests. Based on our interests, we started a war, and we don’t need these bashful finger pickings of our palms!))) It’s not a shame to have our interests and achieve them at any cost, that’s all. Let the author outlive his complexes.)
    1. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 29 November 2019 11: 48 New
      +1
      It’s not a shame to have your own interests and achieve them at any cost, that’s all

      Do not be ashamed to whom? With such a position, there will never be a normal life on the planet. And then with this message you equate the forced things of a great country in your ideas with all the dirt that has been happening and is happening in the world.
      1. Nestorych
        Nestorych 29 November 2019 13: 12 New
        0
        laughing No different "forced things great in their ideas of the country" and what you call dirt. These are the interests, and any (!) Country will declare them “compelled” and “corresponding to its great ideas,” but this is all verbiage!
        In adult reality, the right of the strong has always acted, acts and will act!
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 29 November 2019 13: 38 New
          0
          proceeding from their interests, they started a war, and do not need these bashful finger picking palms!

          So Hitler against us, too, proceeding from his interests, began a war. Also do not need bashful finger picking? After all, he destroyed more than 13 million civilians by the "right of the strong". I reached my goals.
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 29 November 2019 17: 01 New
            -2
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            So Hitler against us, too, proceeding from his interests, began a war. Also do not need bashful finger picking?

            Hitler is a little different. Now the Germans have no doubt that A. Hitler was a disgrace and grief for the German (Austrian) people. Comrade Such a metamorphosis did not happen by Stalin, and in recent years I have doubts about what will happen in the future.
  • Doctor
    Doctor 29 November 2019 13: 40 New
    0
    Winter war through the eyes of the Finns.

    https://finland.fi/ru/zhizn-i-obshhestvo/zimnyaya-vojna-glazami-finnov/
  • RUSS
    RUSS 29 November 2019 14: 34 New
    -4
    Samsonov cease to falsify history
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 29 November 2019 15: 47 New
    -5
    The author is a great dreamer) It must be understood that Soviet Russia declared the thesis of the so-called "world revolution" and actively brought it all to life, so to speak. And our Finnish neighbors watched in horror in the 20s across the border, as consistently “weeded out” elements were being thrown from a neighboring country. The Civil War is certainly a dirty thing, but these guys clearly did not want their small country to become part of all this hardcore (but they could not avoid the confrontation between white and red Finns). At least they had a desire to distance themselves as far as possible from participating in all these dumb plans, many of which we ourselves rightly can’t even justify.
    From the point of view of the USSR, Finland was not among the priority directions because it led to another bear angle, to not too industrially developed countries - and there they could have waited for the World Revolution. But the states on their way to Europe - oh yes, these guys were "at risk".
    And of course the complete absurdity of all these little ideas about some Finnish predatory plans in relation to us.
    Of course, in any country there are ardent Natsiks who sleep and see the revival of "Great Bulgaria" or "Great Mongolia" - and we have such a rampart, by the way. Undoubtedly, there was the Polish factor, with their fantasies about the “inter-seas” and common activities for the diplomatic consolidation of the Baltic countries and Finland to a certain defensive and offensive alliance against Russia. However, one must understand that this is the real policy - ALL countries without exception do not like the mess at the borders and use it to control territories, if the mess is long. This is not a matter of ambition - it is a matter of personal security - few people like it when illegal immigrants, weapons, smuggling, armed gangs, etc. go across the border. With the end of the active stage of the "mess" in the USSR, this issue was closed.

    As regards the question “what prompted the USSR to attack Finland”, it seems to me that the Comrades of the Finns played a bit in diplomatic games, overestimating their own importance for the USSR. At a certain stage, this activity, coupled with the rather aggressive and agile diplomacy of the Third Reich, began to present for us a factor of a “possible unexpected threat” - the stopping of which (fairly clubfoot) was undertaken.
    As a result, we got the opposite result, so IMHO it was the bluntness of yesterday's farm laborers and revolutionaries who imagined themselves to be skill diplomats and thoughtful analysts.
    You can disagree with me, but the 30s-40s were full of insanity all over the world a little more, more than-completely, and our stupidity at that time did not seem so.
    1. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 29 November 2019 17: 35 New
      +4
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      And of course the complete absurdity of all these little ideas about some Finnish predatory plans in relation to us.

      And the Finns say that these plans are a fact. belay
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 29 November 2019 18: 41 New
        -4
        You know, we have comrades who claim that we were preparing to preemptively attack Germany in 1941 smile well, or for example, individual historians who claim that there was no Tatar-Mongol yoke.
        Now it’s very fashionable to dig up what wasn’t. It brings dividends in the form of fees for the "yellow sensation", authority in certain cheers, raises the level of hype and so on.
        And especially recently, the most popular among us was the “game” of pulling from the foreign press (usually in Europe or Ukraine) the “authoritative opinion of“ especially stubborn “experts” and inflating whole performances from this. I think there is a similar case.
        1. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2019 04: 08 New
          +3
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          we have comrades who claim that we were preparing to preemptively attack Germany in 1941

          Not only that - they claim that we were preparing to attack the whole world non-preemptively, so Hitler, who did not need any “living space” in the east, was FORCED to deliver a PREVENTIVE strike. Yes, about the "absurdity about some predatory plans of the Finns" is really a similar case.
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 30 November 2019 14: 32 New
            -3
            Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
            Not only that - they claim that we were preparing to attack the whole world non-preemptively

            Yes, there are such comrades
            We inflate the fire of the world
            Churches and prisons are razed to the ground.
            After all, from the taiga to the British seas
            The Red Army is the strongest.

            Not by the request of the petitioners the tongue froze,
            not beggars, squinting from the master's light, -
            we rode around, inspecting with masterful eyes
            the coming
            World Federation of Soviets.
            Chatting reeds of newspaper lines:
            "Try them first ..."
            Enough!
            Do not you give the test period -
            and we give a break for a while.
      2. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 29 November 2019 18: 49 New
        -4
        Even just logically - what did the Finns have at the start of the Winter War?
        1 (!) Factory producing ammunition, which tightly stood up from the bombing and even a defensive war. Fleet in the form of 2 battleships of an archaic design. The Mannerheim Line, which for many years has been devouring the lion's share of the already acidic budget of this country, is not even capable of producing its own tanks and aircraft.
        Well prepared!
  • dgonni
    dgonni 29 November 2019 15: 58 New
    0
    The saddest thing in this story is that the Finns lost 30% of their economic potential. BUT! The Union also did not receive it! For almost 450 thousand people from the territories leaving the union left for Finland! To be honest, EVERYONE is gone! The union got territory without people! Accordingly, there was no question of any development or even saving of what was being discussed. Physically got a black hole alliance!
    1. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 29 November 2019 17: 00 New
      0
      Quote: dgonni
      For almost 450 thousand people from the territories leaving the union left for Finland! To be honest, EVERYONE is gone!

      “At the beginning of the evacuation in Karelia there were 68453 people who were at large, in the camps for displaced people - 14926 and in concentration camps 162 people. Or only 83541 residents. Of these, there were 41803 relatives and 41783 non-nationals. ..
      2799 people, or 3,35 percent of the total population under occupation, were evacuated from Finland to the occupied territory. Of these, 2196 were national, 603 non-national ...
      In general, we can say that the number of people who moved to Finland was insignificant. Many factors influenced the mood of local residents, in particular, organized resistance. The population also saw that the Finns no longer had a sense of kinship before leaving, and that they themselves were in great difficulty. A significant part of the inhabitants supported the Soviet system and did not want to move to a foreign country ... "
      1. dgonni
        dgonni 29 November 2019 17: 41 New
        0
        Exhale and read Finnish statistics! Yes, even a wiki in Finnish! Yes, even the memories of the Soviet military veterans brought the family to their home base! There really are about 450 thousand people!
        For the support of the Soviet system, they were heard so they happily went to a new place of residence. Do not tell the story.
        My cousin fought in the 44th division. The fact that pure chance and air defense profile remained alive with them as a signalman. So he popped up. And the entire factual division on that road lay down. The stupid war that led north in the war with Germany's ally. Moreover, a competent person who knows the terrain and has accounts! And the Finns were better than the Germans!
        For unbelievers to the memories of Vanka company. They lie in nete freely!
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 30 November 2019 03: 21 New
          -4
          "The stupid war that led north in the war with Germany's ally" /////
          ------
          Absolutely right. There would be no Winter War - there would be no blockade of Leningrad.
          Finland was an ally of England until the age of 40.
          The USSR, through stupidity, with its own hands created an enemy for itself near Leningrad
          just before the battle with Germany.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 2 December 2019 10: 34 New
            0
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Absolutely right. There would be no Winter War - there would be no blockade of Leningrad.
            Finland was an ally of England until the age of 40.

            Only in 1940 did the Finns no longer have to rely on the help of England. And the Finns find themselves between a rock and a hard place - on the one hand the USSR (which the Finns see as imperial Russia, returning their territories - especially after 1939), on the other - Germany, a traditional ally who actually granted the Finns independence in 1918 (corps von der Goltz).
            The question is - to whom will the Finns go under the wing?
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 2 December 2019 11: 11 New
              0
              "That's only in 1940 the Finns no longer have to rely on the help of England" ////
              ----
              No serious military assistance. But the diplomatic support of England and the United States - yes.
              Churchill Finland publicly admired the mass heroism of the people during the Winter War.
              And it was Churchill who saved Finland from the Soviet occupation in 1944 by the fact that during the Tehran Conference of 1943 he made a promise from Stalin "not to touch the Finns."
              But it will be later. And at the end of 1939
              Finns were definitely "for England."
              Until the Soviet attack.
        2. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2019 04: 01 New
          +2
          Quote: dgonni
          read the Finnish statistics!

          I brought her.
          Quote: dgonni
          Do not tell the story.

          To the Finns.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 29 November 2019 18: 27 New
    -2
    [quote = Vile skeptic] and reach them at any cost, that's all

    Do not be ashamed to whom? With such a position, there will never be a normal life on the planet. And then with this message you equate the forced things of a great country in your ideas with all the dirt that has been happening and is happening in the world.
    ANYTHING IS NOT. Fascists - you can!
  • Wildcat
    Wildcat 29 November 2019 19: 33 New
    +3
    Hmm ...
    Such articles on Fridays are still normal, the main thing is that not on Monday! Is "this" exactly in the History section? Not Altistoria?
  • bubalik
    bubalik 29 November 2019 19: 57 New
    +7
    ,,, today many write about the exclusion of the USSR from the League of Nations.

    ,,, for the exclusion of the USSR only 7 out of 15 members of the Council voted (Great Britain, France, Belgium, Dominican Republic, Bolivia, Egypt, South African Republic), that is, a minority belay , and the last three countries - members of the Council were elected a day before the vote.
    Thus, the League of Nations violated its statutes. yes
  • Alevil
    Alevil 29 November 2019 20: 09 New
    +5
    Finland, taking advantage of the weakness and devastation in Russia after the WWII and the revolution, tried several times to grab a piece from the territory of our country and calmed down only by getting it in the neck. At the same time, this aggressive louse arranged, in fact, the genocide of the Russians who lived in Finland. She was not going to abandon her plans in the future, so it was necessary to crush this louse. There is no doubt about the correctness of the Soviet leadership and there cannot be, since Finland did not abandon its plans to capture the Russian Karelia with the subsequent genocide of the Russian population (which it did in 1941). Unfortunately, the Russian genocide in the Soviet territories that fell under Finnish occupation is not mentioned now. The current government really does not want to spoil relations with dear and beloved Western partners (including Finnish ones).
  • zenitovets
    zenitovets 30 November 2019 03: 58 New
    +1
    It is a pity that Stalin did not destroy Finland at all - she and her bestial people deserved it
  • gennadii
    gennadii 30 November 2019 07: 32 New
    +1
    It’s good to talk now, and in those years it’s a completely different matter. As for the behavior of the Finns of the Baltic states, etc. , then in those days they behaved like the last scum, and now too.
  • Kostya Kirsanov
    Kostya Kirsanov 30 November 2019 15: 40 New
    0
    Another registered scribe proved something in an essay on the topic: “Evil Finland must be punished,” but somehow unconvincing. Consider the statement: The fleet could be locked up, but what was it locked up? Every citizen should be arrested if he went into the store, could he steal?
    - Of particular concern was the strengthening of ties with Germany. Why would this be? Germany in 1939 was the best friend of the USSR. Poland was smashed together. territories changed captured countries. Pravda wrote about friendship held together by blood all over the world. the author does not even like the trips of officials of the two countries. But Molotov and Ribbentrop were not the last pawns to be the fascist-Soviet gambit when they exchanged trips. In the construction of tanks and submarines, the USSR was much more successful in assisting Germany. Why, then, should the Finns be reproached again? And the last statement: it could become the future springboard for an attack in the next war. True, didn’t she? But the insidious Finns again had to bomb, which was done. Only a complete fool could think that the war with Finland would end in little blood, as the slogans of that time claimed. The same clever man took care of supplying units and formations that attacked Finland. The Red Army hundreds froze to death.
    Deuce to the author. Too many inconsistencies and contradictions. Solzhenitsyn is resting.
    1. Octopus
      Octopus 30 November 2019 16: 09 New
      -3
      Quote: Kostya Kirsanov
      argued another custom scribbler

      You have read little of this author. He is not a registered hobbyist, he designs his own as it seems to him a beautiful world, the world of an artist. He has a certain idea of ​​Russianness, like the Force of the Jedi. Stalin (Beria, Alexander III, etc.) serves her, the blue sword, Mannerheim (Khrushchev, Americans, liberals) fight her, or rather, serve the dark side of anti-Russian, the red sword. In addition to them, identical nameless units, imperial soldiers, some talking animals, etc. flash on the screen, the author is not interested in their life and death.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 30 November 2019 21: 11 New
        -1
        Briefly, it is called: Imperial neo-Stalinism.
  • Rasskazov Sergey Ivanovich
    Rasskazov Sergey Ivanovich 2 December 2019 10: 16 New
    0
    A young author, written sufficiently and comprehensively. He just does not consider it politically and historically. I'll start with the story (I don’t know for sure) when one overseer decided to straighten out his affairs and secure, wrote a letter to Stalin remembering that he had helped him escape. What Stalin ordered the arrest of and with the words, I did not violate the oath, and you violated the oath and changed your state. And we do not need traitors. Betrayed time, betray both two and three times. What role Finland played before the revolution, rightly everyone and sundry went from it to Russia and back, they dragged leaflets, money and so on. Finland’s task was to weaken Russia and to weaken a weakened piece better, it’s not very good. After the Civil War, the COMINTERN was created, what did he do? Correctly trained leaders of the party elite of other countries. Essentially puppet governments. One of the graduates of COMINTERN was Mannerheim, who learned the lessons very well, and knowing what awaits Finland in the future, as he agreed with Germany, he chose a different development path than T Stalin was very upset. First, Finns began to make small holes in the forests secretly, making them impassable, lay landmines along roads, allowing nature to hide them, while building bridges and other crossings, mine them immediately by hiding explosives in the foundation, which made it possible to hide the facts of mining, previously constructed crossings were also mined. And agreements with the Baltic states and Germany, gave the opportunity to attack Germany at any time. And Russia did not agree with this state of affairs. That's just rushed when the Mannerheim line is almost finished. On the islands are German bases and there are ongoing conflicts on the border. But time was lost, but surprises remained. It was only possible to solve the problem radically.
  • Seal
    Seal 3 December 2019 12: 20 New
    0
    Quote: Serg65
    On September 6, 1941, Hitler, by his order, stopped the advance of the North group of forces on Leningrad, which had already reached the suburbs of the city, and ordered Field Marshal Leeb to give all the tanks of Gepner and a significant number of troops in order to launch an attack on Moscow. Well, near Moscow, as you know, the most unpleasant things happened and there was no time for Leningrad, but then Mannerheim also bucked again, on September 4, 41, Mannerheim sent General Jodl in plain text and refused to attack Leningrad, going over to the defense on Karelsky isthmus! On November 16, the Finns refused the Germans support for their attack on Tikhvin; on November 11, they switched to defense on the Olonets Isthmus. And the most interesting thing for you ... from the middle of the fall of the 41st year, the Finns began partial demobilization and by the spring of the 42nd 180 thousand soldiers, mostly older ones, had been demobilized!
    Well, what about comrade G.K. Zhukov, who arrived in Leningrad (though when he arrived, they still won’t figure it out, but somewhere between September 10 and 13 inclusive) it’s not for saving the city of Leningrad from capture by the Germans? It turns out that in vain arrived? It turns out, in general, was no longer necessary?
  • Seal
    Seal 3 December 2019 12: 26 New
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    The USSR, through stupidity, with its own hands created an enemy for itself near Leningrad
    just before the battle with Germany.
    I believe that in June 1941 we should proceed from the principle "What has been done is done, but we do not need new problems." After all, it has not yet been established who nevertheless gave the order to bomb Finland, including Helsinki, on the morning of June 25, 1941, without declaring war on the Finns.