There was a video of testing the C-400 on the F-16 and F-4 fighters of the Turkish Air Force

Video materials appeared on the network that test the C-400 anti-aircraft missile system in Turkey. We are talking about a complex that was partially acquired from Russia with the funds allocated by Moscow. The deal has been and remains a complaint from the United States.

Washington literally demanded that Ankara abandon the acquisition of the S-400 Triumph air defense system, threatening various kinds of sanctions. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan refused to refuse a deal with Russia. After that, the United States withdrew Turkey from the joint fifth-generation fighter aircraft production program F-35, despite the fact that several fighters were already preparing for the flight from the United States to Turkey.

The governor of the metropolitan Turkish province announced that, as part of a project to test the air defense system of the Russian production, Turkish air force fighters will carry out flights, including at low altitudes. Partially, the route of such flights passes directly above the capital of the country - Ankara.

Testing of S-400 air defense systems is carried out using F-16 and F-4E aircraft. We are talking about tests of radar systems. C-400 radars were installed on the territory of the Kahramankazan (Myurt) military base (former Akynchy) in Ankara. First of all, the air defense base is covering the capital and the airport.

From a Turkish media report:

Command reports that C-400 radars scan airspace for several hundred kilometers. The final activation process should take place against the backdrop of test results. It is planned that this will happen in April 2020.

C-400 testing will end tomorrow - November 26.

Comments

[The leader of the Redskins]

See the "Phantom" С400 across the floor of the globe! The shed is still!)))

[Zaurbek]

What about F16? What about Su35?

[The leader of the Redskins]

Well, these two air defense systems will be considered, of course, already closer. All the same, another generation of airplanes)))

[mvg]

consider, of course, already closer

On occasion, look at the EPR of the Su 35, you will be "pleasantly" surprised. With a suspension 12 dash 15 m2 in the front, nifiga not "stealth"

[The leader of the Redskins]

In any case, I think less than the old "phantom"))))

[Shurik70]

The intrigue is that it is officially wilted that

the final activation process should happen amid test results

That is, even if the test results are not published, the fact that the S-400 was put on duty will report the result no worse.

[Svarog51]

No way. The fact of being on duty and completing testing is yes. And the results of this testing? Even an assessment (Ud, chorus, ex.) Will say little.

[Tommy]

mvg (Maxim), as always stupid, just to spit on Russia, a liberal strategist! In your favorite Wikipedia, the Su-35S EPR is equal to 0,7-2 m2 without a suspension and the source is indicated, it does not inspire confidence, and before that a source of confidence was written - however, it was deleted by people like you and with the suspension! When I calculated the EPR of the Su-35S with 4 RVV-BD missiles (for symmetry, but not the possibility of use) - the EPR turned out to be 2,4 m2, taking into account the feedback (using an invisible coating).
mvg (Maxim), there is no need to spew bile and write a lie. Learn to count, not write nonsense, strategist! One and the same, as always!

[bayard]

Yes, he simply transferred the characteristics of the Su-27 to the 35th, the glider is almost the same, but the EPR is different - materials, radar absorbing coatings. In addition, Maxim himself is air defense in the past, so he knows a little about the topic.

[Mimoprohodil]

Quote: bayard

Yes, he simply transferred the characteristics of the Su-27 to the 35th, the glider is almost the same, but the EPR is different - materials, radar absorbing coatings. .

Is there such coverage there? It is quite moody, and planes often have no hangars. And do you see a lot of new materials? composites are painted gray

[bayard]

The Su-35 does not have a coating, but a radio-absorbing paint, moreover, it is not at all the same as on F-22 \ 35. Paints like this one were used back in the days of the glorious USSR - they reduce the EPR in the centimeter range, but of course they will not make it invisible. According to the glider, this is a fourth-generation classic fighter and it would be foolish to expect more from it (by EPR).

[Mimoprohodil]

Quote: bayard

. According to the glider, this is a fourth-generation classic fighter and it would be foolish to expect more from it (by EPR).

that's it, a miracle paint him 0,7-2 m2 will not do

[Tommy]

Quote: bayard

Yes, he simply transferred the characteristics of the Su-27 to the 35th, the glider is almost the same, but the EPR is different - materials, radar absorbing coatings. In addition, Maxim himself a Pvoshnik himself in the past, so a little versed in the topic .

bayard don't lie so dirty he even EPR cannot count and from time to time spits on Russian equipment, not knowing completely radar ... He never brought a single, such a small technical argument, only stupid things from the Internet! It is ugly on your part to write a lie - or can you not read his children's expressions in Russian?

[bayard]

Well, about the "dirty lie" ... probably you have youthful. Otherwise, we would have just looked at the performance characteristics of the Su-27 on EPR and reference data on the Su-35. And they compared. Despite the fact that they have practically one glider.
And about his "childish expressions" ... maybe. Maybe the son / grandson unsubscribed at the computer, maybe he "fell into childhood." In a polemic, I exchanged life experience and past service with him, sort of like a former combat command officer at the command post of a radio engineering battalion united with the command post of an anti-aircraft missile brigade. In the Far East . I also did the same in the past, but at a higher command post.
Do not rush your words on the site, where besides the usual interests, there are also professionals of this very thing - military affairs. Even if in stock.
In addition, I will tell you a secret that in different EPR ranges the aircraft can be very different, and its size also depends on the angle. In the meter range, any "stealth" is seen quite confidently - as "not stealth", in decemeters it is already noticeably worse. And 1,5 - 2 m2 for the Su-35 are given for the centimeter range - in which American and NATO radars operate, and even then in the front hemisphere. The F-16, by the way, also has an RCS in centimeters of 1,5 m2, and it was such already in the 80s.
And you shouldn't break your heart like that - the Su-35 is not an iota of "stealth", but some measures have been taken on it to reduce the ESR, primarily in the centimeter range. And this is undoubtedly a very good fighter.

[Tibidokh]

Quote: bayard

dirty to lie

Your tact in the conversation, if I may say, with a haml - is simply amazing!
In your comments there is a thought, a product of the inclusion of brains.
Tommy doesn't turn on his brains, I read his comments - as if I watched the program "60 minutes" or "Time will tell". No fabrications, but solid:

Quote: Tommy

Despite the sanctions. Unbearable mattresses. Learn the materiel! The navel will not untie. Complete ignorance. Cossack with an independent. No need to lie so dirty. Some nonsense from the Internet! Librarian strategist! There is no need to spew bile and write lies. Confused with a saucepan, Svidomo! Then ask the Jews!

And these are only the first 10 comments. We look at his registration date: October 7, 2019 11:29. In a week or two he will again offend someone and will be banned, then a new registration and a new portion of rudeness in order to convince those who do not think members of the forum that everything is Soviet / Russian = good; everything else = liberal.

Quote: bayard

in different EPR ranges, an aircraft is very different, and its size also depends on the angle. And you shouldn't break your heart like that - the Su-35 is not an iota of "stealth", but some measures have been taken on it to reduce the ESR, primarily in the centimeter range. And this is undoubtedly a very good fighter.

I absolutely agree with you!

[Tommy]

Quote: Tibidokh

And these are only the first 10 comments. We look at his registration date: October 7, 2019 11:29. In a week or two he will offend someone again and be banned, then a new registration and a new portion of rudeness in order to convince non-thinking members of the forum that everything Soviet / Russian = good; everything else = liberal.

Tibidokh (Alexander), such as you, scoundrels and non-specialists, many VO. I want to upset you - you are no less rude, trying to pull out the dirt and assume what is not there, all the more so getting into someone else's conversation. I have never been banned in VO. And there are noble, illiterate ducks like you, many of whom are in VO, all the more dirty are not patriots of your country, Russia is a river of a dime!

[Tommy]

bayard, before defending mvg (Maxim) and writing your statements, supposedly wise by experience, - do not try to belittle the knowledge and age of others, otherwise you, as now, have missed - for good luck!

Quote: mvg

On occasion, look at the EPR of the Su 35, you will be "pleasantly" surprised. With a suspension 12 dash 15 m2 in the front, nifiga not "stealth"

Quote: bayard

Yes, he simply transferred the characteristics of the Su-27 to the 35th, the glider is almost the same, but the EPR is different - materials, radar absorbing coatings. In addition, Maxim himself is air defense in the past, so he knows a little about the topic.

bayard, and how much can you calculate the real EPR of the Su-35S? And how did he (mvg (Maxim)) transfer the Su-27 to the Su-35S, if he wrote nonsense, taking into account the suspension? The error is 6-7 times, in fact, that is, the person wrote a lie. And carefully reading the statements of mvg (Maxim) from time to time he writes his illiterate statements, not knowing completely radar, spitting on Russian equipment. You can see for yourself, but you rushed to defend him. It reminds me of one dispute on the VO, when I argued to one user that in a hypothetical battle between the Su-35S and the F-35. The Su-35 will win, as it detects the N035 Irbis F-35 radar at a range of D = 225 km, and before the AIM-120 missile can be used - 180 km, it will destroy the F-35 with an RVV-BD R-37M missile. And then I heard only nonsense, in view of the opponent's inability to argue something, that we do not have a sufficient number of aircraft and are unlikely to be soon. And then some rushed to defend his ridiculous conclusion, minus.

Quote: bayard

Do not rush your words on the site, where besides the usual interests, there are also professionals of this very thing - military affairs. Even if in stock.
In addition, I will inform you in confidence , that in different ranges of the RCS of an aircraft is very different, also its size depends on the angle. In the meter range, any "stealth" is seen quite confidently - as "not stealth", in decemeters it is already noticeably worse. And 1,5 - 2 m2 for the Su-35 are given for the centimeter range - in which American and NATO radars operate, and even then in the front hemisphere. The F-16, by the way, also has an RCS in centimeters of 1,5 m2, and it was such already in the 80s.

I want to upset you and tell you in confidence that I am a specialist in the field of radar (RTS) and therefore leave your "knowledge" to yourself. You forgot to indicate in your knowledge that the image intensifier has an amplitude value and an average value - which is taken for calculations. You also forgot to point out that the detection range of targets in the decimeter range and in the other, increases not only from the image intensifier (resonance), but also from the wavelength ...

Quote: bayard

And you shouldn't break your heart like that - the Su-35 is not an iota of "stealth", but some measures have been taken on it to reduce the ESR, primarily in the centimeter range. And this is undoubtedly a very good fighter.

bayard, I would not advise you to use the word stealth, it translates as invisible, there are no invisible aircraft in nature, there are only subtle - more or less ... It will be technically correct!

[bayard]

Quote: Tommy

I want to upset you and tell you a secret, I am a specialist in the field of radar

You, a young man, upset me completely different, but (by the way) and such pearls:

Quote: Tommy

You forgot to indicate in your knowledge that the image intensifier has an amplitude value and an average value - which is taken for calculations. You also forgot to indicate that the detection range of targets in the decimeter range and in another increases not only from the image intensifier (resonance), but also from the wavelength ...

What is it ?
Lieutenant zealous?
... I doubt even that.
And, by the way, the same Su-35 WITH SUSPENSION at 12 knots, even to the front, and even in the meter range, will give just the same "under 12 m2", because it will sparkle on VIKO like a New Year tree. And this is not a minus of a wonderful aircraft, the Su-35 is a classic aircraft of the 4th generation. By the glider. And perhaps the best in its class. Its strengths are different. And these strengths cover many of the strengths of his opponents, the so-called. "fifth generation".
But it will NOT BECOME less noticeable.
In aerial combat, duel situations are rare. Especially one on one. If the enemy creeps up from the rear hemisphere with external target designation and shoots missiles with an infrared head, this will mean that he had external target designation and control (the same AWACS plane), but you don’t. And your opponent did it in radio silence mode.
That’s how they work out on exercises.
And it is with this tactic that "stealth" will help them.
I’m a former officer in the combat control of the combined KP RIC of the Air Defense Division.
More Soviet Union ...
... and you to me with your ... notes ...
Perhaps they teach radar well at Foggy Albion (Tommy) ... but with the ethics and culture of communication you have absolutely ... seams there.

[Tommy]

What is it ?
Lieutenant zealous?
... I doubt even that.

bayard, I already wrote to you:

Quote: Tommy

... write your own, supposedly wise by experience, sayings - don't try to belittle the knowledge and age of others, otherwise you, as now, have missed - for good reason!

bayard, do you have a wounded pride?

Quote: bayard

Perhaps they teach radar well at Foggy Albion (Tommy) ... but with the ethics and culture of communication you have absolutely ... seams there.

Do not assume what you do not know - I am a Russian and live in Russia. I have such a culture of communication only with antipatriots, who in VO call patriots - Russians uryakalka, not realizing that many Russians may not be experts in some field of knowledge, but simply rejoice in the successes and achievements of their country, and who are not going to sprinkle their head ashes for the sake of other countries and peoples! Unlike you and others in "your partnership" at VO.

And, by the way, the same Su-35 WITH SUSPENSION at 12 knots, even to the front, and even in the meter range, will give just the same "under 12 m2", because it will sparkle on VIKO like a New Year tree. And this is not a minus of a wonderful aircraft, the Su-35 is a classic aircraft of the 4th generation. By the glider. And perhaps the best in its class. Its strengths are different. And these strengths cover many of the strengths of his opponents, the so-called. "fifth generation".
But it will NOT BECOME less noticeable.

bayard, the expression you quoted, I've seen before, and which is not true in view of coverageproviding stealth. With 4 suspended RVV-DBs, which are also hardly noticeable, the Su-35S image intensifier is approximately 2,4 m2. Finally, calculate the image intensifier S-35C yourself - the result will amaze you.

Quote: bayard

In aerial combat, duel situations are rare. Especially one on one. If the enemy creeps up from the rear hemisphere with external target designation and shoots missiles with an infrared head, this will mean that he had external target designation and control (the same AWACS plane), but you don’t. And your opponent did it in radio silence mode.
That’s how they work out on exercises.
And it is with this tactic that "stealth" will help them.

bayard, you are mistaken! One-on-one combat simulation is always carried out to understand the strengths and weaknesses of aircraft and their weapons, as well as the development of tactics for use!

Quote: bayard

I’m a former officer in the combat control of the combined KP RIC of the Air Defense Division.
More Soviet Union ...
... and you to me with your ... notes ...

But you don’t need to write this without knowing your opponent, all the more ugly ... A specialist should show his knowledge, and not old merits, which in the modern changing world can cost nothing!

[bayard]

Quote: Tommy

bayard, do you have a wounded pride?

Not at all. I am generally a very calm person. But you still have problems with this. I hope this goes away.

Quote: Tommy

It is not necessary to assume that you do not know - I am Russian and live in Russia.

And I'm Russian . Born in Russia - in the Urals, graduated from high school in Ukraine (USSR), military university in the Baltic states - Vilnius, military internship on about. Saarema - Estonia, served in the Transcaucasus, worked in Moscow (but this is a long time ago - the 90s), and I am writing to you from Donetsk.

Quote: Tommy

I have such a culture of communication only with the anti-patriots who are called patriots on the VO - Russians are morons

And here you have by - in the hole (as you put it). I didn’t call anyone on the site and I don’t like it when others do it. Patriots come in several forms:
- simply patriots who love their homeland because it is their homeland, as a mother ...
- "hurray-patriots" who annoy many, like frolicking youth of grumbling old people, but this is more likely from youth and excess temperament. For me, it’s better to shout "Hurray" than to listen to whining and decadent songs ... But it is the aggressive hurray-patriots who often discredit this high name itself ...
- "patriots on guard" - those who love their homeland, but see everything in black tones, they have lost everything and nothing to help ... there are many such among military retirees, especially among those who fell under Serdyukov's reforms with a reduction ...
And there are also provocateurs dressing up as a patriot. I hope you do not belong to this category.
Myself, I relate to the first category.
The person you attacked, and I stood up - to the third. But in what he wrote, he is right, especially as an expert in this area, as an air defense officer (I had correspondence with him, so I know).

Quote: Tommy

With 4 suspended RVV-DBs, which are also hardly noticeable, the Su-35S image intensifier is approximately 2,4 m2. Finally, calculate the image intensifier S-35C yourself - the result will amaze you.

Nothing will amaze me in this world, especially in matters of radar. Because in the centimeter (!) EPR range, the Su-27 is not much larger than that of the Su-35, and in the F-16 it was generally about 1,5 m2 from birth. And with such an EPR - 2,4 m2, any aircraft will be visible to medium / high power radars practically from the horizon line. Especially in the meter range (400 km. At an altitude of 10 m).
And yet - any articulation of the fuselage and plumage at a right angle, the shape of the air intake, the plumage of missiles, work as CORNER REFLECTORS. Therefore, when designing modern fighters, they try to get away from such joints and generally from right angles. But the Su-35 is full of such angles. Like rockets (plumage) on its suspension.
Stealth starts from 0,5 - 0,3 m2 and below.

Quote: Tommy

bayard, you are mistaken! One-on-one combat simulation is always carried out to understand the strengths and weaknesses of aircraft and their weapons, as well as the development of tactics for use!

Sure, not a problem . You can simulate a battle as in a knightly tournament - they took spears and galloped at each other in the forehead.
Each aircraft has its own strengths and weaknesses. I will offer one more example. Ground-based VHF radar detected a group of F-35 (or F-22 \ 15 \ 16 \ 18) and a lone Su-35 with a full suspension is displayed on this group (preferably in the rear hemisphere) in complete radio silence. It is not displayed accurately, very approximately, because the meter range does not give accuracy. But from a distance of 35 km. (and the Su-57 already has 50 km.) It detects and captures targets with its OLS (optical location station) and attacks them with missiles with an infrared head. In passive mode. Not including the radar. If after the first attack someone survived, he finishes the rest with missiles with radar heads. Here's a scenario for the victory of one 4 ++ over a group of so-called. "stealth" (quotes especially for you).
The strong point of the Su-35 is the presence of a powerful OLS, which allows it to search and attack without giving itself away by radar radiation - in passive mode. And of course "super maneuverability" for close combat and missile evasion. But without external target designation, it is very, very difficult to do this.

Quote: Tommy

But you don’t need to write this without knowing your opponent, all the more ugly

Ugly, this is when:

Quote: Tommy

bayard, don't lie so dirty

, I’m building my dialogue with quite correct expressions ... Moreover, I didn’t see your qualifications as a specialist in radar. Any more or less specialist would understand my first post. And you .... Do you need a scandal?
What for ?
Why should a patriot scandal?
Are you definitely a patriot?

[Tommy]

Quote: bayard

Nothing will amaze me in this world, especially in matters of radar. Because in the centimeter (!) EPR range, the Su-27 is not much larger than that of the Su-35, and in the F-16 it was generally about 1,5 m2 from birth. And with such an EPR - 2,4 m2, any aircraft will be visible to medium / high power radars practically from the horizon line. Especially in the meter range (400 km. At an altitude of 10 m).

bayard, you, like many military on VO: Stary26, yours, made a gross mistake. You confuse the radio horizon with radio visibility. At a target range of 400 km and an altitude of 10000 m, you will not see anything, since the height of your antenna cannot be less than zero, mathematically and physically this is impossible a priori.

Quote: bayard

Sure, not a problem . You can simulate a battle as in a knightly tournament - they took spears and galloped at each other in the forehead.
Each aircraft has its own strengths and weaknesses. I will offer one more example. Ground-based VHF radar detected a group of F-35 (or F-22 \ 15 \ 16 \ 18) and a lone Su-35 with a full suspension is displayed on this group (preferably in the rear hemisphere) in complete radio silence. It is not displayed accurately, very approximately, because the meter range does not give accuracy. But from a distance of 35 km. (and the Su-57 already has 50 km.) It detects and captures targets with its OLS (optical location station) and attacks them with missiles with an infrared head. In passive mode. Not including the radar. If after the first attack someone survived, he finishes the rest with missiles with radar heads. Here's a scenario for the victory of one 4 ++ over a group of so-called. "stealth" (quotes especially for you).

bayard, I gave you a real example, when the superiority of the Su-35S is clearly over NATO aircraft. You did not give a real example. Since before the use of its OLS (D = 35 km), the Su-35 can be shot down, after the turn of 180 km, when long-range RVV-DB AIM-120 can be used on it. The detection range of the Su-35S with an EOC = 2 m2 by F-22 (F-35) aircraft is 272 km, although in the azimuthal and elevation plane, the field of view is + 60 degrees, but NATO aircraft do not fly without target designation. You did not indicate the use of the F-35 in your example, it is armed with the AN / AAQ-37 optoelectronic sighting system, and here the probability of the Su-35C hitting increases sharply before using its OLS. However, only a real air battle can solve everything - the outcome of the battle is 50 to 50.

[Tommy]

bayard, generally F-35 you indicated!

[bayard]

Quote: Tommy

You confuse the radio horizon with radio visibility. At a target range of 400 km and an altitude of 10000 m, you will not see anything, since the height of your antenna cannot be less than zero, mathematically and physically this is impossible a priori.

What is this set of words?
The radio horizon is unchanged and is determined by direct visibility to the target - the higher the target, the farther the detection line. For purposes at an altitude of 10 m. The detection line is 000 km. plus or minus 400 km. (from the topography and quality of position.
And radio visibility is determined by the power of the probe signal and the sensitivity of the receiver, as well as the EPR of the target.
The detection range for targets at 10 meters is the same for all terrestrial early warning stations. So P-000, and 14N5A, and 84ZH55, and 6N5, and 87ZH22 will find this target at a distance of 6 km. Despite the fact that 400N5A has a probing signal power of 84 kW per pulse, and 700N5 has 87 - 2,2 MW. (I bring specially old radars that are no longer used)
This is a radio horizon; you cannot see through the earth.
At the same time, while working to ensure satellites landing (farrowing), the same 5N84A detects a descent vehicle along the plasma wake at a distance of 1000 - 1200 km. and the old P-70 took such satellites right over North Africa - immediately after entering the atmosphere. And all because the height of the targets was great and the radio horizon does not interfere with detection. Here, the limited range is only the power of the probing signal and the sensitivity of the receiver.
So don’t blow your cheeks, it’s not good for you on the radar.

And in the example of aerial combat, I showed an attack in the BACK hemisphere when the outcome depends on the quality of the radar lighting and the quality of the guidance navigators.
American fighters with radars turned on do not fly - this is unmasking, why then do they need stealth if they are direction-finding much earlier than they see on the radar screens?
In the event of a frontal attack in the arsenal of the Su-35 there are long-range R-37 \ 37M. They are a remedy against AWACS aircraft. And the result also depends on the quality of the training of pilots and navigators, often leveling the technical superiority of the enemy in the material part.
But this conversation is pointless.

[Something]

The radio horizon is unchanged and is determined by direct visibility to the target - the higher the target, the farther the detection line. For purposes at an altitude of 10 m. The detection line is 000 km. plus or minus 400 km. (from the topography and quality of position.

Horror! How illiterate you are! For people like you, Stary26, yours and others!
The radar horizon is determined as the distance from the antenna to the place where the radar beam “touches” the earth’s surface. In this case, targets below the line connecting the touch point and the radar antenna cannot be detected.
For the data of your example, the range of radio visibility is D = 400 km (taking into account refraction) the height of the target is N = 10000 m. And if the range of radio visibility is divided by the corresponding coefficient at the beginning of the equation, we get that the sum of the roots from the height of the antenna and the height of the target is 97,087 km, however, the root of the target’s height is 100 km (taking into account the translation of units), which means 97 - 100 = - 3, which cannot be mathematically and physically ... bayard, it is necessary to provide accurate data, not false.
However, if you take the height of the radar antenna equal to 4 meters and the height of your target
N = 10000 m then carefully:
Radio horizon is 8,24 km,
Target radio visibility is 420,43 km.
Take any calculator online and understand that you're not right!

Quote: bayard

... The detection range for targets at 10 meters is the same for all terrestrial early warning stations. So P-000, and 14N5A, and 84ZH55, and 6N5, and 87ZH22 will find this target at a distance of 6 km. Despite the fact that 400N5A has a probing signal power of 84 kW per pulse, and 700N5 has 87 - 2,2 MW. (I bring specially old radars that are no longer used)
This is a radio horizon; you cannot see through the earth.

bayard, do not confuse the radio visibility of the target, which is determined by the physics of propagation of radio waves in space with the radar detection range in free spacedetermined by radar parameters. Target radio visibility and detection range - these are completely different things physically and mathematically... Therefore, they indicate the target detection range with a certain image intensifier, taking into account the altitude of the target, that is, radio visibility.
bayard, write ignorant again - the target detection range is characterized by the target’s image intensifier and the image intensifier is indicated, otherwise, the parameters you cited above - these are not parameters.

Quote: bayard

... And radio visibility is determined by the power of the probing signal and the sensitivity of the receiver, as well as the EPR of the target ...

I already wrote you Radio visibility in free space and detection range in free space - these are completely different parameters. However, I want to supplement you that you forgot to indicate antenna gain Prd and Prm, wavelength (although the military often gives the form of an equation where the wavelength is not squared) in the radar equation ...
Given all the above, it’s not good. for radar you - bayard and not only!

[Something]

bayard! Sorry to get into your dialogue. But truth (truth) is more expensive!

[bayard]

Quote: Something

However, if you take the height of the radar antenna equal to 4 meters and the height of your target
H = 10000 m, then carefully:
The radio horizon is 8,24 km,
The radio visibility of the target is 420,43 km.

Quote: Something

. For purposes at an altitude of 10 m. The detection line is 000 km. plus or minus 400 km. (from the topography and quality of position.

It is at this (plus or minus) distance that a target flying at an altitude of 10 m will rise above the radio horizon and will accordingly be detected.
Have you ever been a young man near a real radar? For each position and type of radar, its own range. It is not only calculated by formulas, but also determined by practical overflights.
Plus or minus 20 km. I indicated just for this. Although the quality of the underlying surface also affects, especially for the meter range. An ideal terrain does not exist, except perhaps above the sea. And there is still a state of the environment - humidity, cloudiness, fog.
I have indicated approximate generalized parameters for early warning stations, a whole family of them.
This is practice, not synopsis.
And you - bad luck for the behavior and parents to school.

[Flooding]

Quote: mvg

On occasion, look at the EPR of the Su 35, you will be "pleasantly" surprised. With a suspension 12 dash 15 m2 in the front, nifiga not "stealth"

You are weird. Up to 2 m2 indicate all known sources.
Why write frank stupidity?

[Alex_59]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

See the "Phantom" С400 across the floor of the globe! The shed is still!)))

And at an altitude of 50 meters?

[rocket757]

It is unlikely that anyone is threatening Turkey ... but in the normal case, it is necessary to build a system of air defense, linking everything with a single control / management center.
Now everyone will have to build network systems if they want to sleep peacefully.

[MY THOUGHT]

In 13, I read an article on VO "Why does Ukraine need an army", it turned out that even she needed it

[Lopatov]

Quote: MY THOUGHT

it turned out that even she needed her

Destroy dissenting authorities in Kiev? As practice has shown, the army is not particularly effective in this.

[Lelek]

Quote: Spade

As practice has shown, the army is not particularly effective in this.

Well, how is it? Frozen Bandera (and they are officially units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine) + Ukrainian cunning + Kiev meanness and the effect is obvious.

[Chit]

Do you think that Ukraine is really upset in the real world if it loses the unprofitable and negative-aligned regions of the LPR and the DPR today?
It seems that in this case it is appropriate to recall the proverb "a woman with a cart - it is easier for a mare."
The food is clear that it is more profitable for Ukraine for Russia to feed and restore these depressed regions.

[Chit]

Hedgehog, ess.

[Flatter]

So, the Turks sold the S-400 to the Ukrainians, so Trump is threatening Turkey. You can’t believe the Turks.

[Slavs]

Take away troops, do not buy coal, draw a demarcation line. Delov then ...))

[Okolotochny]

You have ava depressive-tolerant.

[Flooding]

What is in the way? Woz grabbed the mare, and the mare - the woman?
And what are the costs of military operations, can you imagine?

[AVA77]

Chit
The woman has already climbed down. It’s more difficult to drive a bay with a horse. There are two options. Either they’ll finish it, or it will become sick.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Chit

unprofitable and negatively aligned with Ukraine regions of the LPR and DPR

About "unprofitable" this is a stupid tale, now they are quite scratched, and even without a war they fed ragulatinu on their own heads.

[Nastia makarova]

yeah just something can not refuse the Donbass

[Voyager]

Well, well, depressed. And Crimea subsidized. Why then did the economy and GDP fall so much, even though there is no need to pay pensions? And it’s funny, but on the censor and Ukrainian truth everyone with foam at the mouth assures us that these are Ukrainian territories and they need to be returned.

As usual, it’s impossible to compliment: Ukraine will have to restore what it destroyed in the Donbass.

[Pathos]

Logic is still Kravchuk said to give these areas. Ukraine they simply cannot be pulled by everything that can be destroyed; beaten by cities; destroyed the infrastructure of holes that haven’t been patched so much so that mother don’t cry to restore all the factories; the ironworks of the factory; to pump water out of mines; billions of dead people will have to pay water debts and pensions American presidents and where to get them if the loan from the IMF goes to repay the loan from the IMF And then you still have to think about where to put the flock of sheep with the best half, at least you have to judge at least so many bunks and even feed this money too. A vicious circle within which the village has obtuse corners and no end and edge to this insanity. Something like this

[Jager]

Even with the curvature of Yushchenko, Yanukovych and other brothers, Donbass fed Ukraine. Under the Union, it was a powerful industrial area.

[Cut Samshitov]

Quote: Spade

Quote: MY THOUGHT

it turned out that even she needed her

Destroy dissenting authorities in Kiev? As practice has shown, the army is not particularly effective in this.

That's it. The National Guard and the "dobrobats" will be enough.

[MY THOUGHT]

Well Goebels would not agree with you, but a weak army is basically ineffective

[Lopatov]

Quote: MY THOUGHT

well Goebels would not agree with you

He would agree too. No wonder his colleagues did not create something like ROA in Ukraine, and the entire "patriotic contingent" was sent to various kinds of Schutzmannschaft battalions (which were enough not only for Ukraine itself, but also for the south of Belarus), guards in concentration camps, police regiments, and so on. a similar audience.

Quote: MY THOUGHT

A weak army is basically ineffective

But it has no political aspirations. What is very important for the Ukrainian state of permanent election campaign. Therefore, this country will never have a normal army.

[MY THOUGHT]

here the doctor rather acted out of practical considerations, so to speak, he went along a simple path, as a rule, all this nationalist rabble, unlike a roa, was not made up of soldiers, but it’s difficult to make an army of motley rabble

[rocket757]

Deep thought, however.

[bk316]

it turned out that even she needed her

Enlighten pliz and why does she need it?

[MY THOUGHT]

Ask the forelocks, they’ve been biting their elbows for the fifth year that it wasn’t once / the army /, but that it is needed in a world where everything is decided by power in general, you can talk only with fools, EVEN Tibetan monks-Buddhists (pacifists see much further) the root of their problems with China in the absence of an army, and not that people are cruel, etc.

[Scoun]

Quote: MY THOUGHT

Ask Chubki, they bite their elbows for the fifth year that she was not there once / of the army /, but that she was needed

Chubaty generally spit! They are sawing money. Chubaty whom the Berkutovites stripped so that he would not blaze in clothes wet with gasoline, becoming a deputy he quickly painted himself as he painted.
And in the Crimea? The scarecrows do not want to fight, they sent simple pictures for slaughter.

[MY THOUGHT]

bro, I don’t know what to say to you, well, that it’s bad I understand, but in my opinion it’s not a topic

[Lopatov]

Quote: rocket757

Hardly anyone threatens Turkey

There is someone to threaten. Starting from Greece and Israel, ending with all kinds of terrorists.

[Dmitry Donskoy]

Yes, there are not only Greeks and Jews. In that place there is a ball of poisonous snakes. Everyone wants to get a piece of land with an oil rig

[Cut Samshitov]

Quote: Spade

Quote: rocket757

Hardly anyone threatens Turkey

There is someone to threaten. Starting from Greece and Israel, ending with all kinds of terrorists.

Yes, you sho! Now the professor will prove by points: 1. Israel is the most peaceful country and does not threaten anyone. 2. Israeli missiles are not afraid of Russian missiles.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: Sawing Boxwood

Yes, you sho! Now the professor will prove by points: 1. Israel is the most peaceful country and does not threaten anyone. 2. Israeli missiles are not afraid of Russian missiles.

And they need atomic bombs-rockets for the construction of pits. Under hotels with pools of sulfuric acid!

[Jager]

And in general, Russia supplied Turkey with an inflatable complex simulator)))

[rocket757]

Quote: Spade

Quote: rocket757

Hardly anyone threatens Turkey

There is someone to threaten. Starting from Greece and Israel, ending with all kinds of terrorists.

It is doubtful. The strongest army, a country member of NATO ..... except that striped who will poison? But who?

[Lopatov]

Quote: rocket757

The most powerful army, a member country of NATO

Greece has an army not much smaller. And she is also a member of NATO

[rocket757]

The Turks, the army at the platoon, almost at war, the screenings passed and what remained is very combat-ready and motivated!
I won’t even talk about the Greeks. Their military glory in such a distant past that they themselves forgot about it! What is now, complete ...... on the surface, on the surface.

[Aaron Zawi]

Test results at least announce the fiends. Interesting after all.

[sagitch]

And the test results for a fee, because everyone is terribly interested ...

[Polite Moose]

Quote: sagitch

And the test results for a fee, because everyone is terribly interested ...

But rather, non-disclosure of results for a fee. We started with F-4 and F-16, gradually approaching the main question ... I believe that the answer will greatly depend on the price. Otherwise, it would have started from him.

[Svarog51]

Alexander

But rather, non-disclosure of results for a fee.

There are already customers a little higher. So I have a legitimate question - is the transaction price not very underestimated?

[Polite Moose]

Quote: Svarog51

So I have a legitimate question - is the transaction price not very underestimated?

Sergei! $ 100 billion? Mozh and will not be enough. Not enough !!!

[Svarog51]

It was necessary to take into account the costs and this ... tore off insurance.

[Livonetc]

The results on the F35 would be interesting.
However, no one will disclose the current results either.
For Russia, the US partner is extremely incredible.
However, for Turkey, the United States is still a real partner.
And the United States will not like any information that exposes their weapons systems as non-prodigies.
Since they are partnering their partners at incredibly high prices.
This does not apply to Israel; there is a different story.

[Crash_117]

And let's imagine for a moment that the F-35 could detect at a distance of only 60 km. Your reaction

[Lopatov]

Quote: Crash_117

Your reaction

How will he know this?
Well, the Turkish authorities and the military are a completely different matter.

[Crash_117]

Immediately into the egress without understanding what is written - a classic. I will put in quotation marks this time "Let's imagine for a moment."

[Lopatov]

Quote: Crash_117

Immediately into the erosion without understanding what is written - a classic.

And where did you manage to pick aggression here?

Quote: Crash_117

I'll quote this time

You better write something on the topic.

There are customers for the F-35. Customers may have the opportunity to find out how this "invisible" F-35 is actually protected from detection by "long-range" air defense systems. And for some reason, the manufacturers of the F-35 do not like this opportunity very much. The question is why?

[anykin]

Quote: Crash_117

And let's imagine for a moment that the F-35 could detect at a distance of only 60 km. Your reaction

Assumptions should have at least some basis. US hysteria gives such a ground.

[Svarog51]

US hysteria gives such a ground.

Panic leads to defeat. "Hurray! We are breaking, the Swedes are bending!" (c) Poltava.

[Tusv]

Quote: Crash_117

And let's imagine for a moment that the F-35 could detect at a distance of only 60 km.

My reaction. Penguin Pilot Suicide Who shows up at a distance of 60 km when their HARMs are fired for 100

[lucul]

And let's imagine for a moment that the F-35 could detect at a distance of only 60 km. Your reaction

And let's imagine for a second that the F-35 could detect at a distance of as much as 400 km. Your reaction )))

[Nastia makarova]

very good, spotted the invisibility, then it will be destroyed

[neri73-r]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Test results at least announce the fiends. Interesting after all.

There is still a stripped down version, export!

[Professor]

Quote: neri73-r

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Test results at least announce the fiends. Interesting after all.

There is still a stripped down version, export!

What is it she stripped down?

[Tersky]

Quote: professor

What is it she stripped down?

Oleg, are the Google coupons over? Thick .... , with your experience ... The system is delivered in an export form, with rugged characteristics. There is no access to the internal systems of the systems, the electronic codes for the anti-aircraft missile system remain with Russia, respectively, in the case of hour X, Russia has the opportunity to make this system unprepared for combat use. Reduced number of tracking targets, noise immunity, range of radar, missiles.

[Svarog51]

Victor "Then we go to you!" (c) Cleanliness is pure Tide. "Don't scare the ostriches - the floor is concrete!"

[Professor]

Quote: Tersky

Quote: professor

What is it she stripped down?

Oleg, are the Google coupons over? Thick .... , with your experience ... The system is delivered in an export form, with rugged characteristics. There is no access to the internal systems of the systems, the electronic codes for the anti-aircraft missile system remain with Russia, respectively, in the case of hour X, Russia has the opportunity to make this system unprepared for combat use. Reduced number of tracking targets, noise immunity, range of radar, missiles.

That is, in functional terms there is no difference. The difference in access to the code. So?

A reduced number of goals followed, maybe although I really doubt it.

Interference immunity - how? And why did the Turks agree to accept such a complex?

Radar range, how? And why did the Turks agree to accept such a complex?

The range of missiles, but this is the most interesting. The Turks did not have regular rockets? And why did the Turks agree to accept such a complex?

I will not even comment on the "electronic codes from the anti-aircraft missile system" which "remain with Russia, respectively, in the case of X hour, Russia has the opportunity to make this complex unprepared for combat use." Turks are not. And by the way, in addition to the complexes themselves, Turkey also receives the technology for their production, and hence the software source code. And therefore I repeat the question: where are they cut down?

[Alex_59]

Quote: professor

Interference immunity - how? And why did the Turks agree to accept such a complex?

Why did your unwashed neighbors at one time agree to accept "export" modifications of Soviet weapons? With reduced noise immunity, range and everything, everything, everything. Why did Saddam buy the T-72A with homogeneous armor, when the USSR was already driving the T-64B with the combined armor on stream? Why did the Libyans buy 1234E, which is not at all 1234, only looks similar?
What kind of childish questions do you have? Because in the configuration as "for oneself" nothing is sold to partners without a guarantee of non-transfer to third countries. Here in the GDR, the USSR supplied some (but also not all) equipment made "for itself", so nothing came to the West from the GDR, until the very disappearance of this very GDR. And nobody wanted to give such gifts to the Arabs. This is the first thing. Secondly, for a number of reasons, it is technologically impossible to supply a number of countries with equipment made "as for themselves". Thirdly, for a number of countries, delivery is not possible at all, never and for any money - for example, in terms of identification systems. Fourthly, there is a product, there is a buyer, and once bought, then the offer suited the customer. Fifthly, should you not know that air defense systems are defensive weapons and are largely overvalued. Even if the S-400 was sold to the Turks in an extremely close configuration to the Russian one, I'm not afraid. It will be scary if they are sold in the same form Su-35 / MiG-31 / Su-57. This will be a disaster. But they won't sell it, because you have to earn on something further. Well, what, and our grabbers from defense export have learned it by the teeth.

[Professor]

Quote: Alex_59

Why did your unwashed neighbors at one time agree to accept "export" modifications of Soviet weapons?

they did not buy a patamushta, but received it as a gift, and they don’t look under the tail of the gifted horse.

Quote: Alex_59

Why did Saddam buy T-72A with homogeneous armor when the USSR drove a T-64B with combined armor to itself already on the stream? Why did the Libyans buy 1234E, which is not 1234 at all, only looks similar?

I don’t know about Saddam, but the Indians were sold tanks that they themselves only dreamed about for one simple reason. The Indians did not agree for less. So why do you think that the Turks for $ 2.5 billion bought a cropped version? Are they suckers or do they have money growing on trees?

Quote: Alex_59

What kind of childish questions do you have? Because in the configuration as "for oneself" nothing is sold to partners without a guarantee of non-transfer to third countries.

Any buyer of any weapon signs a document not to transfer to third parties. Whether it's a rocket or a hammer. called "End User Certificate". Your task is to ensure compliance with the obligations on the non-transfer of weapons to third parties.

Quote: Alex_59

It will be scary if they sell them in the same form to the Su-35 / MiG-31 / Su-57.

They will not sell it in "the same form", but even better, since "the client is not a fraer and he will not buy bullshit." TECHNOLOGIES have been transferred to Turkey, that is, know-how. Airplanes with open architecture were sold to India so that the Indians could equip them with bourgeois junk. What is only the data on electromagnetic compatibility ... Israel received drawings for the IL-76. And there are a lot of such examples.

[Alex_59]

they did not buy a patamushta, but received it as a gift, and they don’t look under the tail of the gifted horse.

Not convinced. GDR also did not really buy. The difference is precisely in the level of trust. They knew about the Germans with their order in advance - they would die but not surrender, (not only because of their devotion to the ideas of communism, but simply because the charter does not have to surrender).

but the Indians were selling tanks that they only dreamed of

Firstly, lies about "themselves only dreamed." Secondly, other reasons rule here - the client pays. Pays more Arabs (who seem to have been given, huh?). Therefore, much more "whistles and fakes" can be paid for currency. It's a matter of price. If the buyer is willing to pay for the existing technologies with such an amount for which we will reach the next technological level - why not sell?

Are they suckers or do they have money growing on trees?

You have some kind of terminology.

Quote: professor

TECHNOLOGIES have been transferred to Turkey, that is, know-how.

Professor, are you adequate at all or not? What know-how is the direct descendant of the S-300, created in the 80s in the USSR and which is known far and wide in the USA. This is for a start. Do you think there is something fundamentally new in the S-400 that the same Americans do not know? Well, God bless them, with know-how. Turkey was allowed to assemble two two-piece sets on its territory. And even if they do the full cycle, from the production of solid fuel, to the element base of the LMS, I will not be very upset, because there is nothing there that could cause a technological breakthrough in Turkish industry. But in fact, I think that screwdriver assembly of parts brought from the Russian Federation or stuffing rockets made in the Russian Federation into TPKs made in Turkey is not a technology transfer yet. Although I repeat, if this is not so, then figs with him. I'm generally delighted with this deal. Steal not the freshest iron for currency, add to partnership and credit, seriously quarrel one of the key NATO members with the United States - literally everything is perfect in this deal!
And you can deploy R&D to the proceeds that in 10 years, Turkish air defense will look pale.

Quote: professor

Israel handed over the drawings on the IL-76. And such examples are the sea.

I'm sobbing wildly. Now the Israeli aircraft industry will make a giant leap into infinity. Damn, they gave away the most secret of secret planes! Trouble is trouble. There was so much valuable in its design!

India sold aircraft with open architecture so that the Indians could equip them with bourgeois junk.

And we are finishing the Su-57 to the rescue. From which the Hindus "left". Then we will sell them to them. With a very open architecture, yeah. Let them play.

[Professor]

Quote: Alex_59

Not convinced. GDR also did not really buy. The difference is precisely in the level of trust. They knew about the Germans with their order in advance - they would die but not surrender, (not only because of their devotion to the ideas of communism, but simply because the charter does not have to surrender).

However, this did not prevent the GDR in 1987 from selling the CIA T-72 tanks. And they did not die, but surrendered.

Quote: Alex_59

Firstly, lies about "themselves only dreamed." Secondly, other reasons rule here - the client pays. Pays more Arabs (who seem to have been given, huh?). Therefore, much more "whistles and fakes" can be paid for currency. It's a matter of price. If the buyer is willing to pay for the existing technologies with such an amount for which we will reach the next technological level - why not sell?

No lies. They themselves drove old, and India sold the best they had for currency, namely the T-90. You still have the main tank is the ancient T-72.
Why not sell? This is what I am writing about. They sold the Turks not bullshit, but real S-400s. How do you think: "It's a question of price."?

Quote: Alex_59

You have some kind of terminology.

Are we about style or about essence?

Quote: Alex_59

Professor, are you adequate at all or not?

Transfer to the person-send to ignore sheet.

Quote: Alex_59

What know-how is the direct descendant of the S-300, created in the 80s in the USSR and which is known far and wide in the USA. This is for a start. Do you think there is something fundamentally new in the S-400 that the same Americans do not know? Well, God bless them, with know-how. Turkey was allowed to assemble two two-piece sets on its territory. And even if they do the full cycle, from the production of solid fuel, to the element base of the LMS, I will not be very upset, because there is nothing there that could cause a technological breakthrough in Turkish industry. But in fact, I think that screwdriver assembly of parts brought from the Russian Federation or stuffing rockets made in the Russian Federation into TPKs made in Turkey is not a technology transfer yet. Although I repeat, if this is not so, then figs with him. I'm generally delighted with this deal. Steal not the freshest iron for currency, add to partnership and credit, seriously quarrel one of the key NATO members with the United States - literally everything is perfect in this deal!
And you can deploy R&D to the proceeds that in 10 years, Turkish air defense will look pale.

1. S-400 is the best that you yourself have, and even then in insufficient quantities, in your opinion it is "not the freshest iron".
2. This is not about screwdriver assembly, but about technology transfer. Software codes are top secret.
3. You should not be afraid of Turkey’s technological breakthrough (some NATO countries have gone far from you in technology), but about researching these technologies and developing countermeasures.
4. In 10 years, the Turkish air defense system will not "look pale" because in your most modern complex S-400, according to you, there is no "know-how" and it is "a direct descendant of the S-300, created in the 80s in the USSR and which is known far and wide in the USA.

Quote: Alex_59

I'm sobbing wildly. Now the Israeli aircraft industry will make a giant leap into infinity. Damn, they gave away the most secret of secret planes! Trouble is trouble. There was so much valuable in its design!

You can sob wildly or laugh wildly, but Israel received drawings that he did not have. Israel in the field of glider was decades ahead of your technological level (according to experts involved in the conversion of IL-76 in Israel), but the availability of drawings will allow Israel to modernize Ila at a much lower cost. The same story with the documentation passed to the Indians and French.

Quote: Alex_59

And we are finishing the Su-57 to the rescue. From which the Hindus "left". Then we will sell them to them. With a very open architecture, yeah. Let them play.

1. Not the fact that India will buy aircraft from you, and not from the bourgeoisie. The price of the F-35 is falling, and its popularity is growing. Already produced more than 450 pieces.
2. Selling secrets so that money can be used to develop supposedly new products (even if it were this money that didn’t drown in the budget, but really went to development) is not a visionary policy. Secrets are priceless.

[Alex_59]

Quote: professor

However, this did not prevent the GDR in 1987 from selling the CIA T-72 tanks

Well, under Horabchev, we ourselves began to sell tanks to the CIA, also an example to me.

They themselves drove old, and India sold the best they had for currency, namely the T-90.

In the 90s there were many such twists. This, of course, makes you wildly happy when your former homeland commits stupidities and mistakes. I do not argue, it was, only I do not relish and do not rejoice in these problems. As for the T-90s, about 90 of them released them for themselves in the 200s, at the same time they drove the Indians for currency. Ancient T-72 in the ranks - this is normal. The United States also does not have a tank of the first freshness, although it would seem that they should not have difficulty finding money to re-equip a new tank.

Quote: professor

1. S-400 is the best that you yourself have, and even then in insufficient quantities, in your opinion it is "not the freshest iron".

So.

Quote: professor

and on the research of these technologies and the development of counteraction.

There is no need to be afraid, but it is worth fearing. You want to convince me that our government has again passed all our secrets with offal for a small coin. In this regard, the information from you can safely be considered propaganda misinformation aimed at undermining the morale of the Russian people. But how it really is - wait and see. There are foolish people in the leadership of the state, right? Well, there are. Some prime ministers are then even tried for it. We are no exception, we had all sorts of Yeltsins. Maybe these surrendered something. Or maybe they didn’t.

Quote: professor

Israel in the field of glider decades ahead of your technological level

It's fine. I am happy for Israel. And here are the drawings of the IL-76 basement. Now you will be hundreds of years ahead.

Quote: professor

It is not a fact that India will buy aircraft from you, and not from the bourgeoisie.

Of course not a fact. This is a business. They can kick us out of the market. May you. We'll see how it goes.

Quote: professor

Selling secrets in order to put money into the development of supposedly new products

I repeat. In the S-400 (no matter how it was presented by market managers as an ultra-new weapon) there are not very many SECRETS.

[Professor]

Quote: Alex_59

Well, under Horabchev, we ourselves began to sell tanks to the CIA, also an example to me.

And they said that:

Quote: Alex_59

They knew about the Germans with their order in advance - they would die but would not surrender (not only because of their devotion to the ideas of communism, but simply because the charter does not have to surrender).

The Germans surrendered.

Quote: Alex_59

In the 90s there were many such twists. This, of course, makes you wildly happy when your former homeland commits stupidities and mistakes. I do not argue, it was, only I do not relish and do not rejoice in these problems. As for the T-90s, about 90 of them released them for themselves in the 200s, at the same time they drove the Indians for currency. Ancient T-72 in the ranks - this is normal. The United States also does not have a tank of the first freshness, although it would seem that they should not have difficulty finding money to re-equip a new tank.

You and now T-90 make up only 10% of the tank fleet. The rest is old most of which even the thermal imager did not see, not to mention the air conditioning or automatic transmission.
The ancient T-72 in service is HE normally.

Quote: Alex_59

There is no need to be afraid, but it is worth fearing. You want to convince me that our government has again passed all our secrets with offal for a small coin. In this regard, the information from you can safely be considered propaganda misinformation aimed at undermining the morale of the Russian people. But how it really is - wait and see. There are foolish people in the leadership of the state, right? Well, there are. Some prime ministers are then even tried for it. We are no exception, we had all sorts of Yeltsins. Maybe these surrendered something. Or maybe they didn’t.

No. What do you? The inhabitants of the Kremlin do not make mistakes and care only about the welfare of the people.

Quote: Alex_59

It's fine. I am happy for Israel. And here are the drawings of the IL-76 basement. Now you will be hundreds of years ahead.

No. Just save money. Thanks to the Russian Federation for the kindly provided drawings. The Turks, by the way, will not thank you for the software code.

Quote: Alex_59

Of course not a fact. This is a business. They can kick us out of the market. May you. We'll see how it goes.

Exactly. Therefore, we transfer technologies very VERY carefully.

Quote: Alex_59

I repeat. In the S-400 (no matter how it was presented by market managers as an ultra-new weapon) there are not very many SECRETS.

I do not believe. Earlier, your bosses told you how many secrets there are in the lack of an analogue of the world of S-300, but in your opinion there are not many secrets in S-400. Straight fox and grapes.

[Alex_59]

Quote: professor

Ancient T-72 in service - this is HE normal

Well, we will decide this, okay? I understand that it would be very cool for you to have the Russian Federation swell billions in updating the entire tank fleet, for example, abandoning some social programs or building the Crimean bridge. Because tanks may not be needed in such volumes, and people will suffer from the reduction of social programs now. And you would joyfully write out matches about how grandmothers are miserable in Russia, and Putin glues tanks instead of taking care of them.

Quote: professor

The Turks, by the way, will not thank you for the software code.

What and to what extent the Turks were given is your speculation. Or were you present at the time of the software code transfer? And if not speculation, it is still unknown what they received in return from the Turks, and what the Turks can do for us in return. There is a huge field of options, but for some reason you think only one is true - the RF handed over something mega-valuable for a penny and received nothing in return. You have some kind of black and white world. Either the Russian Federation - suckers, or the Turks - suckers. Although I see offhand dozens of versions. Russia did not surrender anything of value. Russia surrendered something valuable for something no less valuable, but without advertising its profit. If you pass, then it is beneficial to both parties. Russia has surrendered something valuable to the Turks, but not particularly valuable to itself. Etc. Your version is one of many. And she has a right to exist, no doubt. But not the fact that she is faithful. And above I gave examples of where and when we rented something to counterparties. And not well. And well.

Quote: professor

Earlier, your bosses told you how many secrets there are in the lack of an analogue of the world of S-300, but in your opinion there are not many secrets in S-400.

I am glad that our bosses have finally mastered the basics of marketing and sales. Even you believe. It is a success!

[Professor]

Quote: Alex_59

Well, we will decide this, okay? I understand that it would be very cool for you to have the Russian Federation swell billions in updating the entire tank fleet, for example, abandoning some social programs or building the Crimean bridge. Because tanks may not be needed in such volumes, and people will suffer from the reduction of social programs now. And you would joyfully write out matches about how grandmothers are miserable in Russia, and Putin glues tanks instead of taking care of them.

1. Grandmothers are already begging. And not just grandmas. The salary of an engineer at the Ural-Wagon Plant is tears. And this is your future.
2. Your tanks are old anyway. The same T-90 "is the 17th modernization of the T-72". The T-72s themselves showed themselves in Syria where they could not resist the ancient TOU.
3. I am a big fan of tanks, both modern and ancient. For me they are an atavism.

Quote: Alex_59

What and to what extent the Turks were given is your speculation. Or were you present at the time of the software code transfer? And if not speculation, it is still unknown what they received in return from the Turks, and what the Turks can do for us in return. There is a huge field of options, but for some reason you think only one is true - the RF handed over something mega-valuable for a penny and received nothing in return. You have some kind of black and white world. Either the Russian Federation - suckers, or the Turks - suckers. Although I see offhand dozens of versions. Russia did not surrender anything of value. Russia surrendered something valuable for something no less valuable, but without advertising its profit. If you pass, then it is beneficial to both parties. Russia has surrendered something valuable to the Turks, but not particularly valuable to itself. Etc. Your version is one of many. And she has a right to exist, no doubt. But not the fact that she is faithful. And above I gave examples of where and when we rented something to counterparties. And not well. And well.

I have no versions. I am only quoting your official information, and it is as follows:
1. Turkey has received your most advanced air defense system.
2. Turkey received it on credit at your expense. Preved to social programs and grandmothers.
3. Turkey receives the technology of this air defense system.

At the same time, I lost the Russian Federation or won, I don’t know. Time will tell. I know that we wouldn’t do that.

Quote: Alex_59

I am glad that our bosses have finally mastered the basics of marketing and sales. Even you believe. It is a success!

The main thing is that you believe that the S-400 is "the most modern complex that has no taxes in the world" and "old stuff in which there are no secrets" and can, depending on the direction of the wind, delete the unnecessary.

[Jager]

Erdogan himself told you about the production line and software? Software for such complexes is 40% of the cost and value of the complex and no one in their right mind will sell it to a NATO member.

[Tersky]

Quote: professor

That is, in functional terms there is no difference.

The composition of the Ministry of Defense, the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, controls the compilation of an export appearance passport. Without a defense ministry visa, not a single product will go abroad in a configuration that poses a threat to Russia's national security. The same applies to the S-400 complex.

Quote: professor

And by the way, in addition to the complexes themselves, Turkey also receives technology for their production,

Russia does not transfer technology, but the said "production" is a simple assembly of the supplied parts.

Quote: professor

I will not even comment on the "electronic codes from the anti-aircraft missile system" which "remain with Russia, respectively, in the case of X hour, Russia has the opportunity to make this complex unprepared for combat use."

For the answer, see paragraph 2. Therefore, in the export version there is always a limiter that does not allow the use of weapons against its creator. Everyone knows this when they sell and buy, they just don’t talk about it.

[Professor]

Quote: Tersky

For the answer, see paragraph 2. Therefore, in the export version there is always a limiter that does not allow the use of weapons against its creator. Everyone knows this when they sell and buy, they just don’t talk about it.

These are your fantasies. The Turks will not receive your friend or foe codes a priori and will be able to calmly shoot down your aircraft.

[Tersky]

Quote: professor

These are your fantasies.

Two for inattention, when reading you skip paragraph number 1

Quote: professor

Turks will not receive your friend or foe codes a priori

Professor, did you yourself understand what you wrote?

[Professor]

Quote: Tersky

Two for inattention, when reading you skip paragraph number 1

I'm attentive. There is no evidence in the first paragraph that the Turkish S-400 was "cut off". There is no evidence of inability to shoot down Russian aircraft. These are your fantasies.

Quote: Tersky

Professor, did you yourself understand what you wrote?

I understood. Do you know how the friend or foe system works. Have you heard about "Silicon-2" and "Password"?
In your opinion, the codes were handed over to the Turks so that they shot down your aircraft?

[Tusv]

Quote: professor

What is it she stripped down?

Only 2 stations: Tracking, Tracking and Capturing. By our standards, there should be 2 tracking radars. There are no suppression "Levers", cunning interrogators, false booths with launchers and Shells not covered. A couple of filters were not screwed on so that Our electronic warfare would work, and the NATO one was completely useless. In general, a pure Chinese version. The Chinese really boasted that they shot down a ballistic target at a distance of 210. Well, the Turks will learn over time

[Professor]

Quote: Tusv

Quote: professor

What is it she stripped down?

Only 2 stations: Tracking, Tracking and Capturing. By our standards, there should be 2 tracking radars. There are no suppression "Levers", cunning interrogators, false booths with launchers and Shells not covered. A couple of filters were not screwed on so that Our electronic warfare would work, and the NATO one was completely useless. In general, a pure Chinese version. The Chinese really boasted that they shot down a ballistic target at a distance of 210. Well, the Turks will learn over time

Truncated not in functionality, but in composition and, if desired, the Turks will equip it. So?

[Tusv]

Quote: professor

Truncated not in functionality, but in composition and, if desired, the Turks will equip it. So?

I don’t know, Oleg. If my radar has a couple of anti-interference filters and a couple of tracking modes. Will it be fully functional? Will the Turks be able to screw theirs? Perhaps, but not easy, but very difficult. Their second tracking radar can. It's easy to screw on your "microwave" Your EW is unlikely .

[Professor]

Quote: Tusv

Quote: professor

Truncated not in functionality, but in composition and, if desired, the Turks will equip it. So?

I don’t know, Oleg. If my radar has a couple of anti-interference filters and a couple of tracking modes. Will it be fully functional? Will the Turks be able to screw theirs? Perhaps, but not easy, but very difficult. Their second tracking radar can. It's easy to screw on your "microwave" Your EW is unlikely .

The contract for the supply of four S-400 divisions for $ 2,5 billion concluded in 2017, on TWO BILLION FIVE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS, did not include full-fledged air defense systems, but their cropped version? In your opinion, the Turks can sell this? Seriously? The Turks were not only sold the best that you had, but also transferred the technology and lent it all. As the saying goes, "spread the lower limbs to the fullest."

[Tusv]

Quote: professor

The contract for the supply of four S-400 divisions for $ 2,5 billion, concluded in 2017, for TWO BILLIONS OF FIVE MILLION DOLLARS, did not include full-fledged air defense systems, but their cropped version?

Well hello Priekule (this was a nice training)
So the Yankees can deliver 700 megabytes apiece, with extra rent for satellites and disconnecting from them at the whim of Americans. And My Rasko doesn’t have a right for a pitot? Guys. Russia has long been capitalist. Additional contracts. for add. grandmas. And there will be happiness with the sacrament

[Professor]

Quote: Tusv

Quote: professor

The contract for the supply of four S-400 divisions for $ 2,5 billion, concluded in 2017, for TWO BILLIONS OF FIVE MILLION DOLLARS, did not include full-fledged air defense systems, but their cropped version?

Well hello Priekule (this was a nice training)
So the Yankees can deliver 700 megabytes apiece, with extra rent for satellites and disconnecting from them at the whim of Americans. And My Rasko doesn’t have a right for a pitot? Guys. Russia has long been capitalist. Additional contracts. for add. grandmas. And there will be happiness with the sacrament

Satellites bourgeois do not supply anyone and therefore have the right to "turn off" them. Here they never turned off their air defense systems, as if they did not want to. Your thoughts on the S-400 bookmarks are nothing more than your thoughts. Turks are not suckers.

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Quote: professor

The Turks were not only sold the best that you had, but also transferred the technology and lent it all. As the saying goes, "spread the lower limbs to the fullest."

Professor, why don’t you respect the Russian military-industrial complex? Did you receive a separate report on production technologies, what was transmitted and what not? I have something to do with these St. -...
We supply equipment for their production ... Without this equipment, they will not work out very well. But no Turks turned to us for equipment. The Chinese - was the case. But in private, and were SENT ...

Quite the opposite. Full respect for the RF military-industrial complex. They will find bookmarks in your systems and your reputation will never be restored. I know very well what "technologies" are. It is the technology that is being transferred to Turkey.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: professor

The Turks were not only sold the best that you had, but also transferred the technology and lent it all. As the saying goes, "spread the lower limbs to the fullest."

Professor, why don’t you respect the Russian military-industrial complex? Did you receive a separate report on production technologies, what was transmitted and what not? I have something to do with these St. -...
We supply equipment for their production ... Without this equipment, they will not work out very well. But no Turks turned to us for equipment. The Chinese - was the case. But in private, and were SENT ...

[Tusv]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

But in private, and were SENT.

Uh! Eugene Under capitalism we live. Vinegar for halva, the same profit should bring
1. Explain what is free.
2 Offer transportation services.
3. Conclude an agreement on the sale of vinegar for the export of that vinegar
4. Conclude an agreement with the transporters for the transport of vinegar.
5. It is very indignant that vinegar has not reached the addressee and vow to promise that the perpetrators will be punished
6. Hire lawyers in force majeure that during transportation. Vinegar could turn into biofuel and high-quality cognac
7. Demand three times to save gigobaks. For the fact that vinegar has turned into fuel and into elite cognacs in international arbitration and the customer has used all this

But the secrets. No no. Only a kick in the ass with spitting from three meters

[lucul]

included not full-fledged air defense systems, but their cropped version? In your Turks, you can vparit this? Seriously?

So Turkey did NOT have its own air defense. And for them, this stripped-down version of the S-400 is simply a giant step forward in terms of air defense ....

[Tusv]

So Turkey did NOT have its own air defense. And for them, this stripped-down version of the S-400 is simply a giant step forward in terms of air defense ...

So then everything is much more interesting .. The Chinese won the contract on national air defense, and we only intercepted. They explained to the Turkish comrades that the S-400 is two in one. Patriot and THAAD .. Further radar supplies. National Pro is very expensive
In general, when I rest abroad, I trust domestic systems more

[Professor]

Quote: lucul

included not full-fledged air defense systems, but their cropped version? In your Turks, you can vparit this? Seriously?

So Turkey did NOT have its own air defense. And for them, this stripped-down version of the S-400 is simply a giant step forward in terms of air defense ....

1. Turkey had and still has its own air defense. Your su-24 invading airspace is a "living" example.
http://factmil.com/publ/strana/turcija/zenitnye_raketnye_kompleksy_vooruzhennykh_sil_turcii_2018/29-1-0-1277
2. Turkey is a NATO country and "its" air defense it needs insofar as. The same Germany for darma deploys Patriots in Turkey and protects its sky.

[Tibidokh]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Test results at least announce

Results of scanning with the S-400 complex: the pilot of the F-16 has kidney stones ...

[phakic]

This is a new meme)))

[gurzuf]

The stones are nonsense, but ... the pilot’s impotence after this scan is serious

[Tusv]

Quote: Tibidokh

Results of scanning with the S-400 complex: the pilot of the F-16 has kidney stones ...

Test. Requirements. Insert a geometric shape into the desired niche.
As a result of the tests, it turned out. Half very dumb, half very strong

[Voyager]

Ah ha ha, that was good!

[NKT]

Test results will be delivered with the rocket.

[Avior]

What results do you expect?
The radar adjustment was most likely carried out.

[Tusv]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Test results at least announce the fiends. Interesting after all

Aron. Some quotes
- And Pyna is selling a secret. Big secret big money. Little secret little money.
- In the morning money, in the evening chairs. Evening money. morning chairs. But can it be the other way around? You can, but money in advance.
True, there are no secrets there. What's interesting there. Efki actively maneuver on different exposing obstacles. The Turk is trying to capture them and take them for escort. Captain Titarenko would say his sacred: "Weak"
I wonder how to separate their Turks from strangers? They still haven’t brought us money.

[Svarog51]

Aaron Patience and only patience. Such things are expensive.

[Herman 4223]

So they are still unfinished, be patient with your secrets for sure

[Alex_59]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Test results at least announce the fiends. Interesting after all.

The test results of the S-300PMU2 in China in the 00s were published openly. According to the results of the PRC, it bought an air defense system of this modification. If you consider that the S-400 is a direct descendant of PMU2, then we must assume the results of firing in Turkey will be about the same or slightly better.

[Altai72]

Apparently with the "Operation Manual" completely converges

[Radical]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Test results at least announce the fiends. Interesting after all.

Don't worry, the "stakeholders" (USA and Israel) will get everything on time.

[Professor]

Judging by the video, these planes practiced attacks on the S-400, and not vice versa.
That is, "There was a video of testing the F-16 and F-4 fighters of the Turkish Air Force on the S-400."

[Cat11]

Judging by the video, the planes fly and the radars spin.

[Tusv]

Quote: professor

Judging by the video, these planes practiced attacks on the S-400, and not vice versa.

Practice strikes? You are joking? Judging by the video. Sokolik with Phant only took off

[Professor]

Quote: Tusv

Quote: professor

Judging by the video, these planes practiced attacks on the S-400, and not vice versa.

Practice strikes? You are joking? Judging by the video. Sokolik with Phant only took off

F-16 on a shaver passes over the S-400. At the seventh second. Its a dead zone. Yes, and flaps its wings. So who is hunting for whom?

[Tusv]

Quote: professor

F-16 on a shaver passes over the S-400. At the seventh second.

Oleg, as a true Semi-Military I’ll say, where did Vi see the S-400 position at the seventh second ?. Yes, and if flying. PVN is part of the complex. It also needs to be tested.
For reference. PVN - A point of visual observation from which the bursting targets are shot. For example, Stinger
Everything must be taught :

[Professor]

Quote: Tusv

Oleg, as a true Semi-Military I’ll say, where did Vi see the S-400 position at the seventh second ?. Yes, and if flying. PVN is part of the complex. It also needs to be tested.

Quote: Tusv

For reference. PVN - A point of visual observation from which the bursting targets are shot. For example, Stinger
Everything must be taught:

The minimum boundary of the cover zone for a range of 2 km. The plane passed directly over the complex where it was captured on video as it works out the udat, and not on it.

[Svarog51]

He could not only wave his wings, but also "twist his tail". Nobody was going to shoot at him, even though you had to practice the whole aerobatics over the complex.

[Saboteur Holuy]

Gee ... but after all, our radars were launched and controlled ... Turks are not yet prepared ..

[KJIETyc]

Quote: professor

Judging by the video, these planes practiced attacks on the S-400, and not vice versa.
That is, "There was a video of testing the F-16 and F-4 fighters of the Turkish Air Force on the S-400."

Judging by the video, something is flying somewhere and some, presumably, antennas of the allegedly S-400 complex are spinning. But the professor saw in his fantasies the development of strikes. Do not you earn British scientists? Hiley Likely.

[K-50]

Therefore, they did not give the Turks Fu-35, so that its "invisibility" did not become a fiction and advertising deception.

[Thrifty]

For this fact alone, the Turks "deserve" sanctions for the whole country totally Today the trump will be furious and bite the globe of Turkey

[olafcik]

Actually, this is precisely the US unwillingness to transfer F-35 to Turkey.
Then Turkey will be the only country in the world that can objectively, conclusively evaluate the invisibility of this fighter.
And for some reason I am sure that this "invisibility" will not justify even a third of the cost of this military toy.

[Ross xnumx]

C-400 testing will end tomorrow - November 26.

The test results will be very interesting for many ... Let's wait ...

[Prahlad]

But will the characteristics of radars float away through patches in aircraft radars? Surely there they are

[Servisinzhener]

As I expected. The first thing the Turks will do is test the S-400 on their planes. And if they had an F-35, they would certainly have checked whether it is as good as they say about it. And judging by the nervous reaction of the Americans in the stealth of the F-35, there are many points with an "asterisk".

[Saboteur Holuy]

As I understand it, in general, Turkey has good ground forces, the Navy is at a good level ... but the Air Force is not very ... Almost no air defense ... So One S-400 will be small ... In case of war with Iran .. .who will win?

[nod739]

Good picture)
S-400 got into the frame-well !, but it is to the left in the frame that the Turkish pepelats is not news like that?)))

[Shahno]

Strange article. Vobschem about anything.
Now, if so, that at least one real goal would be destroyed. Or are they still afraid of crossing with Tsahal. Even by accident. Why is it so. Do not blame the error ...
And if you are afraid, then why are these complexes at all. They do not inspire fear on equal terms. To fight with the Papuans.

[faterdom]

No matter how long Trump and Co. did not pull their end, it seems to me that the global fiasco milking F-35 is hindering. Which will be flattened with the Boeing scandal after diving several passenger Boeing on autopilot.
It remains for us to support everything !!! parties in the American election - and they will devour themselves with a crunch and pleasure.
At least enthusiasm is already visible.

[Shahno]

Quote: faterdom

No matter how long Trump and Co. did not pull their end, it seems to me that the global fiasco milking F-35 is hindering. Which will be flattened with the Boeing scandal after diving several passenger Boeing on autopilot.
It remains for us to support everything !!! parties in the American election - and they will devour themselves with a crunch and pleasure.
At least enthusiasm is already visible.

Do you know that there is a dark side on the moon ...

[iouris]

Looks like Erdogan remembered well that it was the F-16s that tried to bomb him.

[Vitaly gusin]

Quote: iouris

Looks like Erdogan remembered well that it was the F-16s that tried to bomb him.

And here is the right thought
The putsch was arranged by former Air Force commander Akyn Ozturk.
In order for the F-16 to remain in the air for a long time, two KC135R refueling aircraft were sent from the Incirlik air base. The aircraft performed their tasks first in Ankara, and then in Istanbul, thereby allowing the F-16 to be in the air for long hours. It is reported that in addition to the 4th air base of Akıncı in Ankara and the 10th air wing of Incirlik in Adan,
. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan gave the order to shoot to kill all F-16 controlled by the followers of the coup
03:18 F-16 putschists were neutralized by F-16s, flying out of Bandyrma. The president’s plane proceeded to the general aviation strip from Floria.
Note NOT DESTROYED BY "PETRIOTS" A F-16
The Patriot cannot fire at the F-16.
That's why the S-400 was bought to protect themselves beloved, that's why they train on the F-16.

[NBV]

Quote: rocket757

It is unlikely that anyone is threatening Turkey ... but in the normal case, it is necessary to build a system of air defense, linking everything with a single control / management center.
Now everyone will have to build network systems if they want to sleep peacefully.

Turkey several times directly and indirectly stated that it has claims to the Bulgarian territories. Turkey constantly violates the airspace of Greece and openly provokes Greece and the international community by drilling offshore Cyprus. Do you think this is not a threat to anyone ?!

[no better place for]

Indirectly? That is nonsense. Is air Greece simple? You look at the map of the Aegean Sea there. There, a lone stone in the sea 100 km from Greece and 5 km from Turkey belongs to Greece. And the Greeks consider flying over it a violation. And there are many such stones

[faterdom]

Quote: NBV

Quote: rocket757

It is unlikely that anyone is threatening Turkey ... but in the normal case, it is necessary to build a system of air defense, linking everything with a single control / management center.
Now everyone will have to build network systems if they want to sleep peacefully.

Turkey several times directly and indirectly stated that it has claims to the Bulgarian territories. Turkey constantly violates the airspace of Greece and openly provokes Greece and the international community by drilling offshore Cyprus. Do you think this is not a threat to anyone ?!

Of course. This is a clear threat to NATO. Should we cry?

[NBV]

I do not expect violations of international law to become a problem for you. But because you mentioned NATO. Remind me when Cyprus joined NATO?

[NBV]

And when the Turks shot down a Russian plane into their airspace, did you cry?

[Gileada]

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said that Erdogan proposed to create a technical commission with NATO specialists to study the S-400 complexes. "For this, first of all, we need the support of the idea from the United States. It is the specialists who must make the decision," said the head of the Turkish Foreign Ministry.

BBC.

But I wrote that the US attacks on Turkey are fiction and Turkey's purchase of the S-400 will only be a plus for them, since they will be able to study everything and take countermeasures against our air defense. Yes, and Erdogan will get enough of this, giving the United States the opportunity to study the complexes for some good. How many minuses I caught then for my post from local cheers of patriots) We are waiting for the purchase by Turkey for an interest-free loan with the transfer of production technologies for our su-57, armature, etc. to jointly study our technologies as a conditional adversary. What you can't do for "friends".