Indian General: Does anyone believe that India will create the 5 generation fighter itself

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The Indian media published material authored by Indian Army Special Forces Veteran Lt. Gen. P. Katosh (PC Katoch). The Indian general sharply criticized the constant statements by representatives of the country's Air Force command that India "alone will create a fifth generation fighter."

According to the retired general, he was annoyed by reports from Indian media that said India would create the latest fighter using its own technology for 2030 or 2032.



Indian Special Forces Veteran:

It would be better if these media outlets covered the inefficient functioning of our Ministry of Defense with its poor planning. Remember, the Indian Air Force previously opposed the joint development with Russia of the 5 generation fighter. It was, in fact, the deliberate refusal of our Ministry of Defense to jointly implement a major project using foreign technologies. Does anyone really believe that India will develop a new generation fighter itself, without cooperation with foreign companies? Why didn’t they begin to develop the project with Russia, didn’t they begin to modify it, adjust it to their own needs?

The retired lieutenant general notes that if the Ministry of Defense had questions to Russia about the characteristics of the FGFA (a joint program to create the 5 generation fighter), then why it was necessary to immediately exit the project.

As noted by the Indian general, in Russia since the withdrawal of India from the joint program, several dozen changes have been made to the design of the Su-57 aircraft, which indicates the improvement of this military equipment before putting it into service.

P. Katosh criticizes the leadership of the Ministry of Defense for the fact that it often changes plans without explaining such radical moves, as well as for the fact that all the latest Indian projects in the military-technical sector without cooperation with other countries turned out to be failures, including the development of their own infantry weapons.
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    1. +15
      25 November 2019 08: 10
      The main thing is that the Indians themselves would believe!
      Remember the joke about the man who was impatient in the city center for need, but there is no restroom? And he decided to do auto-training:
      - I do not want to go to the toilet ....
      - I do not want to go to the toilet ....
      - I absolutely do not want to use the toilet ...
      - I ALREADY do not want to use the toilet ...
      laughing
      1. +3
        25 November 2019 08: 36
        Oh, finally it came !!! Perhaps the esteemed Indian General read our comments on the creation of his own Indian aircraft in just 12 years before 2032 !!! ???
        1. +9
          25 November 2019 09: 32
          Quote: Alexander Petrov1
          Oh, finally it came !!! Perhaps the esteemed Indian General read our comments on the creation of his own Indian aircraft in just 12 years before 2032 !!! ???

          the article reminded me of this passage wink

          the Indians have already learned everything :)) it is possible to take up the 5th generation, but some still doubt :))
          1. +5
            25 November 2019 09: 44
            They did not learn, but they suffered and have been tormented for 30 years, especially with their fighter and their tank ...
          2. +1
            25 November 2019 13: 49
            The Hindus themselves did not learn anything, everything that they have in service was created either in Russia or in close cooperation with Russia (the BRAMOS project), even they are not able to create and produce modern tanks themselves, which then can be said about modern airplanes, ships and submarines, they themselves will not be able to create anything until 2030 - 2035.
        2. -5
          25 November 2019 10: 44
          Quote: Alexander Petrov1
          Oh, finally it came !!!

          Generals in India are very prone to bribery from everyone and everything, and even more so those who have long been retired. I do not particularly trust the sincerity of his words.
          1. +7
            25 November 2019 11: 04
            Generals of any army are susceptible to this ailment, especially if the signing of a contract depends on them.
        3. -33
          25 November 2019 10: 57
          The Indian general should have been more in the subject.
          Doesn’t he know why India withdrew from the FGFA project? India did not make this a secret.
          It came out because the Su-57 does not meet the characteristics of the 5th generation fighter in stealth parameters and engines. And this was explicitly said. General not in the know?
          Leave alone stealth technology, although there were also a lot of questions.
          But why do Indians need a plane with an AL-41F1 engine?
          The Indians were lured into the project with stories about the engines of the second stage.
          Then it turned out that "Product-30" does not exist in nature yet. Some infa slipped through that the Su-57 had allegedly already flown with these engines in 2017. However, in July 2019 Borisov dotted the i's. According to him, "Product-30" is currently at the stage of factory testing. After which the power plant will be installed on the Su-57 and only then, finally, they will begin state tests. It is planned to start equipping aircraft with this version of engines no earlier than 2023-2025. There is no reason not to trust the words of the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation. Although the key word here is "planned". The distance from planned to accomplished is enormous.
          Therefore, the Indians did not begin to develop the project with Russia.
          In this case, the Indians in open text told Russia: bring the engines to the parameters of the 5th generation. After that, India is ready to return to the program.
          What is incomprehensible to the general?
          1. +15
            25 November 2019 11: 18
            Why did you decide that with the "old" engines the Su-57 does not meet the 5th generation? After all, the Americans also have "old" engines (4 generations) on both the F-22 and the F-35, and they, like our Su-57, fly supersonic without afterburner and are excellently bought all over the world and are considered 5th generation aircraft .. ...
            1. -20
              25 November 2019 11: 55
              It is not necessary to divert the conversation aside according to the principle "but they have blacks there they lynch."
              The article did not talk about American aircraft.
              It was exclusively about the Su-57. About why India left the project. I gave an answer.
              1. +5
                25 November 2019 11: 59
                But you wrote that India does not like the 4th generation engine, and that’s also why they left the joint project, isn’t that so?
          2. +7
            25 November 2019 11: 29
            Quote: Chit
            Doesn’t he know why India withdrew from the FGFA project? India did not make this a secret.

            You probably have not read the article. And if they read, the general’s following statement caught his eye:
            Why didn’t they begin to develop the project with Russia, didn’t they begin to modify it, adjust it to their own needs?

            The retired lieutenant general notes that if the Ministry of Defense had questions to Russia about the characteristics of the FGFA (a joint program to create the 5 generation fighter), then why it was necessary to immediately exit the project.

            The general understands the claims to the FGFA proct.
            Quote: Chit
            What is incomprehensible to the general?

            It is not clear why it was necessary to EXIT the project, when it was possible to jointly finalize. The general knows better, he knows how many more "simple" projects were failed, but here, at the "fifth" generation, they swung. According to the principle: "What does it cost us to build a house"
            1. -22
              25 November 2019 11: 50
              I can only repeat it.
              India left the project because the parameters of Russian engines were lower than previously declared by Russia itself.
              This is the mildest formulation. There are others.
              1. +10
                25 November 2019 12: 04
                Quote: Chit
                India left the project because the parameters of Russian engines were lower than previously declared by Russia itself.

                This is not true. The AL-41 engine is an engine, in its structure, the so-called 4th generation. Fans of pluses will add a couple more to him, but the essence does not change. But the parameters were exactly the same, no Indians even tried to mislead. In addition, as already written above Alexander Petrov1 (Alexander), it is quite capable of bringing the Su-57 to the supersonic cruising mode, which is what the "fifth generation" aircraft requires. And this is the engine of the first stage. Nobody demanded from Indians to buy FGFA from AL-41, they could have waited for "product 30".

                In India, the Anglo-Saxon lobby is very strong. Participation with Russia in the joint FGFA program would put an end to the purchase of aircraft from anyone else. This is the main reason for exiting the program, not the "parameters of Russian engines".
              2. +4
                25 November 2019 12: 43
                Quote: Chit
                India left the project because the parameters of Russian engines were lower than previously declared by Russia itself

                Even with the old engines, the project contained far more technology of interest to India than the "0" that contains their current design.
                As a result, India swelled a bunch of dough, and refused the results because one of these results was below its expectations)). We can only thank the Indians and wish them not to stop doing charity work.
              3. +1
                25 November 2019 15: 41
                Quote: Chit
                India left the project because the parameters of Russian engines were lower than previously declared by Russia itself

                Here is their wording
                At the end of April 2018, India withdrew from the FGFA joint project with Russia. The Indian military felt that the Russian fighter being created did not meet the stated requirements for secrecy. The Indian side also believes that the combat avionics, radars and sensors of the Russian development do not meet the standards of the fifth generation combat aircraft [69] [70].
                Why pour water past the mill?
              4. +4
                25 November 2019 17: 06
                Why walk around the bush, you can bluntly say, brought some to someone in India. We thought without the Indian funding the whole program of cancer would rise, that's all. The engine will be made sooner or later, well, so the plane not only consists of the engine. Only earlier, the Indians had a chance that they can do it at home, now only buy the finished product without the transfer of technology.
              5. +3
                25 November 2019 23: 59
                Quote: Chit
                India left the project because

                But is not the point.
                Does anyone believe that India will create a 5th generation fighter itself ?!
          3. +1
            25 November 2019 14: 04
            If India returns to this project, it will have completely different conditions for it, with the new Su-57 engine it will be an almost ready aircraft and in this case India will lose preferences and the opportunity to get the most favorable conditions for itself, it’s stupid and ridiculous to leave the project on the most difficult and its costly stage, and then, as if nothing had happened, to return to it and pretend that nothing happened, and that India claims all the conditions that were set before it left this project, since the circumstances have changed, then necessarily change and conditions.
          4. +3
            25 November 2019 14: 07
            around the PAK FA project and 30 products there is a lot of speculation.
            it is enough to say that the official deadlines for completing work on the engine were postponed for a total of 7 years, at least once rolling back to the beginning.
            however, the Indians themselves were also a major destabilizing factor, as according to the plan, about a third of the developments were funded.
            And the second one. The army refused to buy large quantities of aircraft without product 30, but in 2021 (there was infa and about 20) the delivery of the required will begin. 2023 is the year of completion of the supply of the first batch with new engines.
            this is what I read in the media myself. And all this is written so that you do not distort.
          5. +2
            25 November 2019 15: 34
            Quote: Chit
            Doesn’t he know why India withdrew from the FGFA project? India did not make this a secret.
            It came out because the Su-57 does not meet the characteristics of the 5th generation fighter in stealth parameters and engines. And this was explicitly said. General not in the know?

            Let's do it this way: he knows why India withdrew from the project and probably more than you, that's why he says. It's not just that you're here, you can immediately see a specialist in his field, everything seems to be correct, but almost everything is distorted. Let's start with the fact that the Su-57 fighter of the PAKFA T-50 project, which developed independently of India and long before it entered the project, and on January 29, 2010, the first flight copy of the T-50 took off, in the same year this the aircraft was demonstrated to India and at the same time a contract was signed to develop an export project jointly with India - FGFA, that is, in principle, the aircraft was already ready and India knew perfectly well what was going on and what the characteristics of this prototype were, and the FGFA project had to take into account and adapt these characteristics for their needs. Everything you say next is propaganda crap, because according to the project, the Indian company was supposed to develop an on-board computer, navigation system, information displays in the cockpit and a self-defense system, everything else was already in principle ready. Further, exit from the project, here we are talking about exactly what this general did not say. About what? Ask him. They motivated their exit with this: "The Indian military considered that the Russian fighter being created did not meet the declared requirements of secrecy. Also, the Indian side believes that the Russian-developed combat avionics, radars and sensors do not meet the standards of a fifth generation combat aircraft." And now you answer this question - how do Indian (especially Indian) pilots know the standards of a fifth generation combat aircraft and are there any such standards at all? Where did the standards for combat avionics, radars and sensors of fifth generation aircraft come from, and are there any at all? That is, they realized that they were not stupidly pulling the project, neither in development because they had to implement part of it, nor in production because this requires a base, technologies (for India, these technologies are technologies of tomorrow) and personnel and software this got out of the project. Well, and the Su-57, you can't even imagine what kind of machine it is and its capabilities, there are practically fantastic things that have already been implemented.
          6. Kaw
            +4
            25 November 2019 16: 18
            Some infa slipped that the Su-57 allegedly already flew with these engines in 2017.

            And not only infa.
          7. 0
            26 November 2019 10: 30
            Here, rather, the main message is that now the world is ruled by those who have developed technologies. Indians have a hard time with this. In this project, they were given access to technologies that they do not have, or do not have specialists in this area. And they cut off the channel with their own hands, and without any alternative. It would be more logical if after that they and the Chinese "muddied" something with their J-20 or J-31.
            Most likely the original treaty was drawn up in the most favored nation treatment for India. But when you re-enter the project, the conditions may be tougher.
      2. +2
        25 November 2019 08: 47
        Expensive is a pleasure. And we need powerful developments, as we got from the USSR.
        1. +2
          26 November 2019 00: 05
          Quote: Civil
          And we need powerful developments, as we got from the USSR.

          The USSR was also lucky, he got the backlog of the Russian Empire. What was missing from the empire was bought for empire gold.
      3. +9
        25 November 2019 08: 57
        it’s such a policy in India for some time now, to refuse to cooperate with Russia and to purchase Western and other weapons. But this policy is a failure, the brains themselves are not enough to build up, and the West can only sell its weapons at a high price without technology transfer or, as us pass, junk type f16.
        1. +5
          25 November 2019 09: 42
          India has levitating yogis. They do not need to be invested in money at all. Only a little remains - to give them the characteristics of fifth-generation fighters. wassat
        2. -10
          25 November 2019 10: 46
          Quote: Bar2
          transmit, junk type f16

          The United States does not give them the old F16, they offer them completely new, latest upgrades and even with assembly in India itself.
          1. +3
            25 November 2019 14: 08
            This is essentially the same thing, the F - 16 platform is outdated and has become obsolete, whatever you might say, but it is already yesterday even in the most modern modifications and it’s stupid to deny it !!!
          2. +5
            25 November 2019 14: 11
            Quote: Terentich
            brand new, latest upgrade

            Are you seriously?

            Is this your modern car with modern aerodynamics ???
            the fact that the newer avionics were also set up with another filling is certainly good, but uh, this fighter has been almost half a century old!
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. 0
        25 November 2019 20: 07
        And I have a simple question
        And is this lieutenant general - a special forces veteran more skilled in the technologies that are laid down in the Su-57 than the profile generals who made the decision?
        I don’t think that Sukhoi’s company would be stingy with kickbacks
        That is, if they even appear in such a large and visible project.
        No one knows the real capabilities of Su 57 except the people involved in its development.
        And the Indians to whom he was offered.
        The former are interested in selling and are engaged in aggressive advertising.
        They can also overestimate the characteristics.
        The second is customers.
        We felt, appreciated.
        And they refused.
        Why?
        But the devil knows them.
        Their right
    2. +6
      25 November 2019 08: 13
      The general will be knocked at the head so that the office does not burn. The bosses are knocking down the price, but this one is wrecking .....
      1. +6
        25 November 2019 09: 25
        Apparently, the Indians have more serious corruption in the army than ours. And the general from the special forces, some not an Indian at all. Cuts the truth to the uterus without "preliminary dances".
        1. +2
          25 November 2019 09: 47
          In principle, it is very likely that the Indian leadership, on which military cooperation with Russia depends, is quite bribed, and for a certain amount, officials thwarted the joint work on the fighter, and lobby for contracts for the purchase of military equipment from other suppliers. .
          1. +2
            25 November 2019 10: 20
            Bribery while promoting arms contracts is common practice.
    3. +1
      25 November 2019 08: 18
      The Indian general sharply criticized the constant statements by representatives of the country's Air Force command that India "alone will create a fifth generation fighter."

      Interestingly, is he still intact?
      1. +10
        25 November 2019 08: 29
        And they do not have “loners” for the clan building of society. Make an “ax head” to one, a big massacre will be learned. Actually, this is not a statement of a proud lone general, but a plucking of feathers for those who are at the feeding trough now.
        1. +1
          25 November 2019 08: 53
          Quote: Gnefredov
          And they do not have “loners” for the clan building of society. Make an “ax head” to one, a big massacre will be learned. Actually, this is not a statement of a proud lone general, but a plucking of feathers for those who are at the feeding trough now.

          The mustache can be ... did not delve into it so loudly, not because of courses.
          However, EVERYTHING as elsewhere!
    4. +7
      25 November 2019 08: 30
      The most appropriate solution for India would be to jointly produce FGFA with Russia and, in parallel, to develop its AMCA. After all, the Indians were able to completely localize the production of Brahmos rockets at home. Now, on its basis, they are developing a hypersonic missile. Even the Indians need to learn from the Chinese. Even after developing its fifth generation fighter, China purchased a small batch of Su-35s from Russia. There is no doubt that this was done in order to copy some of the systems of our aircraft to improve its black eagle. This is very significant. But this will allow the Chinese pretty quickly get access to those technologies or systems in which they were lagging behind. This primarily relates to the Al-41F1S engine.
      1. +6
        25 November 2019 11: 26
        The Chinese are more organized people than the Indians. The Chinese "harness fast and go fast." India has good engineers, but "harness slowly and drive slowly."
        Although, in rocket technology: both military and space - the Indians have made steady progress.
        1. +1
          26 November 2019 03: 18
          Perhaps there was such a question, but still I’ll ask, why doesn’t Israel build its own fighter? There are technologies, engineers too. What is stopping this? In your opinion
          1. -1
            26 November 2019 11: 13
            There is no market. The example of Swedish Gripen is very revealing. They created a good fighter.
            (If they had given the Israelis a chance to "polish" the avionics, there would have been an excellent fourth-generation aircraft).
            But sales do not go.
            And to do only for yourself is a net loss. Therefore, Israel got into the hole of drones. And they are selling well (for now).
            1. 0
              26 November 2019 19: 35
              Thank you for your reply. But the tanks are doing their own, and not buying abrams. UAVs of course you have tops. In this regard, Israel is the leader (for now)
    5. +6
      25 November 2019 08: 36
      Indian General: Does anyone believe that India will create the 5 generation fighter itself


      The former, as always, cut the truth ...
      1. +3
        25 November 2019 09: 52
        The former, as always, cut the truth ...
        Former in all countries are prone to gynecology and axes: what is not true is the womb ... And it must be cut.
    6. +4
      25 November 2019 08: 45
      India suffers from a REGULAR aggravation of causeless self-confidence.
      1. +1
        25 November 2019 14: 16
        This is also called wishful thinking !!!
    7. +4
      25 November 2019 08: 48
      Yeah, with some songs and dances, a 5th generation fighter can't be built laughing
    8. +2
      25 November 2019 08: 48
      So the point is that they are still 20 years old so fool around - and they are not even China, but Pakistan will conquer
    9. 3vs
      +1
      25 November 2019 08: 49
      then why it was necessary to immediately exit the project.

      The veteran of the special forces, but does not understand that they decide the money, to whom and to give the lope to close!
    10. +1
      25 November 2019 08: 51
      Quote: Cut Samshitov
      The general will be knocked at the head so that the office does not burn. The bosses are knocking down the price, but this one is wrecking .....

      Every country has its own liberals. As for me, you need to believe in your country and those you choose to govern. Yes
    11. +5
      25 November 2019 08: 56
      One thing is not clear, why Russia shares technology with the Hindus, and even so imposedly imposed, it’s good that the Indians also have enough stubborn fools. Although something is not clear, we now have a national virus, at the sight of a gleam of coins, the brain turns off and the hands begin to row towards themselves.
      1. +2
        25 November 2019 09: 17
        Right. We need to save and increase our technological superiority, but not to distribute technologies to the right and to the left. And cooperation - only if it contributes to this. The sale of advanced technologies is treason, money is needed - the wrong argument in the conditions of the looting of the country.
    12. 0
      25 November 2019 09: 00
      Born to crawl, can't fly
    13. +2
      25 November 2019 09: 08
      "Does anyone really believe that India will create a 5th generation fighter itself"
      No no one believes
    14. +1
      25 November 2019 09: 17
      Strange some kind of Indian military.
      It gets out of order.
      And even before him, judging by the belated reaction, it did not come immediately.
    15. 0
      25 November 2019 09: 31
      Good afternoon, they wrote that he was retired.
    16. +1
      25 November 2019 10: 36
      Among the tambourines falling to the beat, the voice of a professional opera singer suddenly erupted.
    17. 0
      25 November 2019 11: 00
      Not in the eyebrow but in the eye! Now the Indian beaver sawers will sing about the insanity of a retired general hi
    18. +1
      25 November 2019 11: 15
      Indian Army Special Forces Veteran Lt. Gen. P. Katosh (PC Katoch)


      Our person ))).

      But seriously, he is generally right. India itself, which makes a 4th generation fighter with great difficulty and not very outstanding characteristics, is hard to do, but with the 5th generation it will be even more difficult and this development will require huge money.

      But the owner of the barit, as they say, if it doesn’t work out, they know who to contact.
    19. +2
      25 November 2019 11: 30
      Why no one believes, I believe, but I respect fiction in general!
    20. The comment was deleted.
    21. +1
      25 November 2019 12: 28
      All the fault of the grandmother. Why should India spend $ 5 billion on a joint project if they can buy 50 finished aircraft from the US or Russia for the money? They have been designing their unfinished Tezhas for forty years and will not put it into mass production in any way. India may by 2030 and be able to create some kind of experienced flying demonstrator of the 5th generation, but I hardly believe it.
    22. +2
      25 November 2019 16: 15
      that there was a fighter by 2032 already now they must design the engine. with their level of technology, with all due respect to India, they don’t really believe it. China, with all its supercomputers, has not yet given birth to a sane engine ... even for the 4th generation ... and even India ...
    23. +2
      25 November 2019 16: 43
      India, of course, is a very controversial and difficult country, both with a highly developed infrastructure and slums with beggars ... in general, in principle, everything is "going uphill" for them, they have made great progress in technological terms over the past 30 years.
      High-tech industries are also progressing, of course, through mistakes, but who doesn’t))
      India and China-well done were able to direct the economy towards real improvement, now they cannot be called colonies, which are interesting to the rest of the world only for raw materials.
      Well done!
    24. 0
      26 November 2019 19: 59
      But how can they dance.
    25. 0
      26 November 2019 20: 18
      and let the Indians have RF-technology-DAC-scratch

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