Successes and failures at the Farnborough 2012

95
Last sunday ended aviation Salon "Farnborough 2012". A full report on the work of the exhibition has not yet been published, but some figures have already been named. So, during the week of the event, suppliers and customers signed agreements or reached a preliminary agreement on the supply of a total of 738 pieces of equipment. The total volume of contracts exceeded 72 billion dollars. This is not a record for Farnborough - in 2008 the total amount of contracts reached 88 billion, but still better than at the previous salon. The similar indicator of Farnborough 2010 was one and a half times less. In general, all this is not surprising, because the English salon has been held for more than a decade and is considered one of the most important aviation events in the world. Therefore, major manufacturers of aircraft are preparing various new products for this exhibition. Buyers, in turn, try to sign contracts at large salons: this has some element of advertising.



In terms of the number of vehicles sold, the record for the last salon is Boeing. 9 July representatives of this company signed a contract with the French company Air Lease Corporation. According to the document, in the coming years, the customer will receive 75 Boeing 737 aircraft. 60 of them will be made in the modification of MAX8, and the rest - in the version of MAX9. In addition, another 25 machines are subject to an option. It is noteworthy that Air Lease Corporation is the first leasing company that not only expressed its intentions regarding purchases of the updated 737-s, but also brought these intentions to a firm contract. The estimated cost of the planned delivery of the aircraft is estimated at 7,2 billion US dollars. The French leasing company, it should be noted, bypassed competitors for a few hours. Already on the tenth of July, the leasing division of General Electric Corporation signed a contract with Boeing. GE Capital Aviation Services (GECAS) was not the first to sign, but was surprised by the volume of purchases. For more than nine billion dollars, GECAS intends to get the 75 Boeing 737MAX8 and 25 Boeing 737-800 aircraft. Total, 14 billion in two days. Very good numbers.

It is worth noting that the signing of such large contracts does not occur immediately. It is preceded by negotiations lasting for months. However, the cost of time is fully justified. This obvious truth is understandable to all world leaders in the aircraft industry. Therefore, Boeing’s competitors are also not idle. On July 10, its first contract for Farnborough-2012 was signed by Airbus. In accordance with it, in the coming years, Hong Kong air carrier Cathay Pacific will receive ten A350-1000 aircraft. In addition, the previous agreement with the Asian firm was slightly revised. So, from 36 planned for delivery A350-900 will be delivered only twenty. The remaining 16 aircraft will be built in the new configuration A350-1000. According to reports from Western news agencies, Airbus will receive at least four billion dollars under these contracts. Another three billion Airbus will earn on the supply of 28 A320 aircraft and eight A321. These aircraft will become the property of the Chinese company China Aircraft Leasing Company, as its leasing name implies. Finally, the American merchants from the CIT Group want to receive ten A330 liners and are ready to pay for them about two and a half billion dollars. Thus, Airbus received orders and supply arrangements for a total of about ten billion. Of course, this is less than that of a direct competitor in the face of Boeing, but the European concern still retains its first place in contracts and supplies, primarily due to the agreements signed earlier.

Much worse were "made" at Farnborough-2012 by domestic companies. So, of all orders, it is worth noting only the UTair contract for the supply of 20 Airbus A320 aircraft. Interestingly, this carrier for the first time showed its intention to buy European airliners - hitherto, from foreign aircraft, he preferred Boeing. As for the aircraft produced in Russia, the situation here is no better. Farnborough voiced several unpleasant for the domestic aviation industry News. At first, Armavia Airlines (Armenia) refused to continue purchasing SSJ-100 aircraft. Moreover, there are still no official comments. The only thing that is known is that the Armenian carrier wants to buy Airbuses or Boeings instead of Superjets. Due to the lack of specific information about the reasons, a variety of versions began to appear: from the poor financial situation of Armavia to any problems with the aircraft, because of which the airline does not intend to expand the fleet. In addition, the silence of the Armenian company may not affect the reputation of the entire SSJ-100 project in the best way. The fact is that it was Armavia that was the first to receive the serial Superjet and has the largest experience in its operation. Accordingly, in the eyes of potential customers, the refusal to continue purchasing may also look like a hint that you still should not contact the SSJ-100. Of course, there are already firm contracts for the supply of several dozen such airliners, but the situation does not get any nicer from this. Currently, a lot depends on advertising. I would like to hope for the prudence of potential Superjet customers.

Another bad news with Farnborough-2012 concerns the mid-range aircraft MS-21. Crecom Burj Bhd, one of the Malaysian companies, was one of the first to intend to buy these airliners. A contract was signed for the supply of fifty MS-21, but at the last show, representatives of this carrier for some reason announced that a firm supply contract is now "turning" into an option. The reasons for this decision were not voiced. And again a lot of assumptions appear, but this time, unsuccessful operating experience is not among them. If only because the first MS-21 will fly into the air only in the 2015 year. Perhaps, the Malaysians were not satisfied with the too long deadlines for the start of deliveries. Well, or, as they say about Armavia, they simply do not have money for 50 brand new airliners. Nevertheless, it is worth waiting for official information, if it is, of course, to be.

The English Air Show was much more successful for domestic military aviation. First of all, it is worth noting training aircraft Yak-130. The existence of this project for many years is not a secret, but at Farnborough 2012 it was first presented to the general public abroad. The purpose of this aircraft is to train pilots who will fly on fighters of the fourth and newer generations. The on-board electronics of this training aircraft makes it possible to imitate the characteristics of control and behavior in the air of several types of fighter aircraft, which greatly facilitates the training and habituation of a pilot to a particular aircraft. According to specialists, the Russian Air Force needs at least 250 of such vehicles. As for the world military aviation, its needs are about ten times more. Several contracts with foreign countries for the supply of Yak-130 have already been signed, however, not all of them can be executed right now. It is about Syria, which, in view of the internal situation, cannot yet be recognized as a reliable buyer who will fulfill all of its obligations under the contract. Earlier, deliveries of aircraft to Libya broke down - after the civil war and the regime change, the country's new authorities refused to buy training Yak-130. At the Farnborough-2012 air show, the new training aircraft was only, so to speak, announced. Therefore, any new agreements about it were not signed. At the same time, while it is possible to speculate on the topic of its prospects. It is quite possible that potential buyers of this aircraft do not yet have all the necessary information and are just about to initiate negotiations about future purchases.

As you can see, in economic terms, the last exhibition was ambiguous for the domestic aviation industry. Not deadly, but unpleasant. However, much more unpleasant events related to the salon, touched the pilots and officials. A few days before the start of the Farnborough 2012, it became known that Russian pilots from the Russian Knights group had problems with going to the salon. As it turned out, domestic officials "tried". They simply did not have time to issue all the necessary documents for the flight. In addition, a number of officials and merchants have had problems with documents. Some media, citing anonymous sources, wrote that the British side is delaying the issuance of visas. It was explained by certain attempts to take revenge on Russia for its position on the Syrian issue. One way or another, regardless of the reasons, the audience did not see the Russian team’s pilot program, and several dozen people received serious problems.

Summing up, you can make one simple and banal idea. The past Farnborough-2012 showroom turned out to be a typical event of its class. For some manufacturers of aviation technology, it was successful, for others it was not. Still others, in general, remained with their own: they did not receive any transcendental contracts and at the same time did not lose the existing ones. For the Russian companies "Farnborough-2012" was not particularly successful, but without any special failures. Of course, the troubles of the “Russian Knights”, the lost hard contract and other events clearly do not contribute to optimism. However, do not forget another trivial thing: aviation exhibitions are only a showcase for the aviation industry. Major events and work are carried out "behind the scenes" and it is on them that special emphasis should be placed. Only in this case good news about the next contract for the supply of dozens of domestically produced airplanes will come from the next cabin, in the UK or in France.
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  1. +4
    17 July 2012 08: 33
    The unsuccessful superjet project will now come back to haunt all civil aviation. It seems to me that the MC-21 will be a cool aircraft and a real competitor to bing and watermelon. Competitors already feel this and therefore make the most of the failure of the dry to trim the wings of the MS-21. Not a very big specialist in aviation, but I read a lot of comments on this topic. For me, it's better to revive the Tu-334 CM.
    1. Senzey
      +5
      17 July 2012 09: 03
      Early deduct Superjet! The fact that the Armenians refused is their problem. If they don’t have money for a Superjet, then they won’t even find a Boeing with Airbus. Correctly, the author writes: the main events and work are carried out "behind the scenes", there is fierce competition for the market. Superjet will still find its customers, and orders for the MS-21 are yet to come.

      1. +4
        17 July 2012 09: 17
        Quote: SenZey
        If they don’t have money for a Superjet, then they won’t even find a Boeing with Airbus.

        No one has canceled the secondary market - junk is cheaper.
      2. Tirpitz
        +16
        17 July 2012 09: 44
        Quote: SenZey
        and orders for the MS-21 are yet to come.

        MS-21 is not yet and the next 2-3 years will not be. What kind of orders? Everyone also spoke about the ss-100, and they shredded their shirts, saying they’ll conquer the whole market, so what? Do not crawl in front of the Old Man in the heat - there is such a proverb. And then the plane is not there, but you already see the orders.
        1. +3
          17 July 2012 09: 59
          And then the plane is not there, but you already see the orders.
          In aircraft construction is normal practice. as airplanes are made to order, and not vice versa.
          Everyone also talked about ss-100 and shirts were torn apart. They say we’ll conquer the whole market, so what?
          Well, about more than 200 orders, you probably do not know.
          1. Tirpitz
            0
            17 July 2012 16: 34
            No, not in the know? I do not believe in 200 orders.
          2. VAF
            VAF
            +5
            17 July 2012 23: 37
            Quote: urzul

            And then the plane is not there, but you already see the orders. In aircraft construction is normal practice. as airplanes are made to order, and not vice versa.


            Andrei, you are fundamentally wrong, the plane is being made under the MARKET and under TTZ, but not like we have in modern times!


            Quote: urzul
            Well, about more than 200 orders, you probably do not know.


            This is .. Utopia
            1. +1
              18 July 2012 08: 53
              http://superjet.wikidot.com/wiki:sales
              official contract data
        2. VAF
          VAF
          +3
          17 July 2012 23: 35
          Quote: Tirpitz
          MS-21 is not yet and the next 2-3 years will not be.

          Absolutely, +++ !!! drinks


          Quote: Tirpitz
          Everyone also talked about ss-100 and shirts were torn apart. They say we’ll conquer the whole market, so what?


          Well, we love this business ... slogans, and even more so when such money is "mastered", so it remains that "vparivat" to someone ..... or else they might ask ?? bully
      3. +10
        17 July 2012 16: 16
        Build quality of the Armenian Superjet.



        Have questions? There are still many complaints about him.
        1. FID
          +8
          17 July 2012 16: 32
          These photos would be yes in Farnborough or, better, Poghosyan on the table !!! THANK!
          1. VAF
            VAF
            +5
            17 July 2012 23: 38
            Quote: SSI

            These photos would be yes in Farnborough or, better, Poghosyan on the table !!! THANK!


            The namesake, hello!
            And you think that he is not in the know ???? +!
        2. +12
          17 July 2012 17: 11
          Once, blogger Ilya Varlamov (aka zyalt) came to fly a couple of times to SSJ-100: once with a regular flight to Yerevan, the other with a demo flight on the MAX. The result was the pictures shown above and
          the phrase from Twitter scattered across the Web: "I’m flying with Armavia on the new Superjet, it is falling apart."

          But, in fact, the reasons for such a disastrous state of the cabin, which Mr. Varlamov, naturally, did not add to his posts.

          Firstly, this aircraft (formerly 95007), at one time, was “tortured” a bit in Zhukovsky, where, in parallel with the SCI, it was modified to a standard design. In the cabin "threw" additional wires for
          duplication of a number of signals (according to the comments of the SC): emergency interior lighting, the inclusion of email. hydraulic pumps, passenger masks, etc. Although the wires themselves were “a penny”, hemorrhoids with them were all “one hundred rubles”.
          The harnesses laid under the floor had to be duplicated on the ceiling and vice versa. Moreover, they stretched from the cockpit to the very F5. Some of these remarks still seem somewhat far-fetched to me. Eliminate them
          everything was required before the completion of the SRS and the receipt of the ST, so the improvements were carried out in fits and starts: a week of flights, a week of improvements, etc. I don’t remember exactly, but it seems that three or four times, the production workers had to
          dismantle and then reassemble kitchens, toilets, armchairs and decorative panels in the cabin.

          Secondly, a demonstration of emergency evacuation of passengers on the ground was carried out on this machine. Before these tests, miniature video cameras were installed in many places of the salon and vestibules to fix the process. The cameras were sculpted to the interior, wires passed under the panels, wherever possible. After the shooting, all this equipment was "pulled out".

          I think that the interior and its fixtures are unlikely to be designed to repeatedly carry out a similar execution with them. It is possible that this is precisely what, in the end, affected them: the 95004 and 95005 prototypes flew much more hours, and with more intense maneuvers, but their interior was in order.

          And clarification from KnAAPO: I can add that after the return of 7 to Komsomolsk, interior panels were once again removed for improvements. The fasteners there really can not stand repeated disassembly.

          On one of the “forms”, the interior of the 95007 aircraft was repaired and currently has no gaps. All other planes, both experienced and Aeroflot aircraft, did not and do not have similar problems.

          ... December 2011

          ... I’ll tell you a little about our first-born child - I managed to look at the EC-95015 today. Very pleased with the car. Honestly, after all the blogger stories with horror stories, I really expected the spectacle of a “hackneyed and broken-down minibus”, where everything is worn and scratched, everything hangs out and is wrapped in some kind of tape. ... However, I saw absolutely nothing of the kind - the cabin, the interior of the cabin, chairs, kitchen toilets - everything is in excellent shape, clean and tidy, nothing is broken. I found several scratches on the shelves, the food in the stoves burns up from time to time, and there are two containers of shabby in the back kitchen, and those strangers - one with the UTair logo and the other AFL (maybe they waved it at the port). Otherwise, everything is OK! The exterior is also decent - only in one place on board is a small chip of paint (about the size of a patch), and a couple of torn rubber seals on the flaps (all this will be quickly eliminated, along with the ballots). The rest - the plane is like new, and if you wash the “belly” from the drips of the autumn-winter period, it will generally look as if it was driven from the factory a couple of weeks ago. So Armenian engineers and technicians take good care of him, well done guys! In short - both the car belongs and it is for you.

          In the smoking room, along with colleagues, they even managed to hold a semblance of a mini-conference with a representative of the Armavia IAS (of course, solely for the sake of the Radio Operator). Nobody shorthand reports at this conference, but in general, the following was said: “... flies no worse than foreign cars, no more failures than A and B, we fly everywhere, a lot of people come and are very interested in the plane, we tell them everything honestly happy with the car ... ". My colleagues and I were very pleased to hear that. Moreover, this was not a prepared speech by a large boss or manager from a high rostrum, but our direct conversation with an ordinary specialist who performed the bulk of the heavy and dirty work on the machine.
          We were told a funny incident that happened at one of the Russian airports.

          The taxiing manager gave priority to the car and held the other side in place with the words: "... miss board No. ... Boeing Armavia", and the PIC corrected it right there: "You need to learn the technique, this is not Boeing, this is your Russian Sukhoi plane!"

          Such a story is by no means a “virtual” expert, but whatsoever, a real operator.

          ... June 2012: Do I understand correctly that the Armenian SSJ passes the 2000 check? Will the chassis really change or is it all speculation?

          This is speculation. No one changes the chassis. Yesterday I watched the work of the guys from the ATC with 007 in our hangar - inspections and minor repairs (glued, tinted, etc.), from the mining sites, they just “slammed” the chassis a couple of times (cleaning-release), but we checked the RAT and that was all. So after the holidays and customs clearance (in our country this is always a problem), the bird will go home to Yerevan.

          Naturally, I could not resist and walked around the cabin, looked into the cabin, into the kitchens, toilets. It's just a fairy tale - passengers were already transported for 50000, and the cockpit, interior and interior look as if the plane had just been rolled out of the DSP. On the chairs and the interior there is not a single scratch or scuff. I asked David, an engineer from Armavia, about this, the answer was simple: of course, we love the car, therefore we take care of it, not like the AFL. The blades of the engine fans are also pristine clean, without nicks and traces of “sweeps,” I asked about the ingress of objects this year, the answer is only birds. In general, the Armenian machine really pleased me (and Lavrov who was present at the same time), well done guys! But curly bloggers and “experts” are in no hurry to write something about it.
          1. Yarbay
            +3
            17 July 2012 17: 29
            Quote: urzul
            But, in fact, the reasons for such a disastrous state of the cabin, which Mr. Varlamov, naturally, did not add to his posts.

            A very interesting charge, how did Varlamova know about * torment * in Zhukovsky about harnesses, etc. ?????
            and why not eliminate them before the flight, so that the Varlamovs can be calm! ??
            Quote: urzul
            I don’t remember exactly, but it seems that three or four times, the production workers had to
            dismantle and then reassemble kitchens, toilets, armchairs and decorative panels in the cabin.

            Who is to blame for this blogger Varlamov?
            Quote: urzul
            In general, the Armenian machine really pleased me (and Lavrov who was present at the same time), well done guys! But curly bloggers and “experts” are in no hurry to write something

            in the sense of curly bloggers all this that is described by the author was also seen and hidden ??
            1. +5
              17 July 2012 17: 32
              A very interesting charge, how did Varlamova know about * torment * in Zhukovsky about harnesses, etc. ?????
              If you read the original article, you can see with what kind of professional indulgent he talks about the superjet
              1. Yarbay
                +3
                17 July 2012 17: 38
                Ursul!
                You know!
                I am more than sure that the blogger was unlikely to have any task from the Zionists or imperialists to write a negative article about the superjet!
                Probably wrote what I saw!
                And why was that ??
                After all, there Poghosyan flew if I understood correctly from your post and the official delegation!
                Is it not mess, not irresponsibility ??
          2. SSR
            +1
            17 July 2012 23: 35
            2 urzul /
            Thank you for such comments.
            There can always be many reasons ... but the way the information is presented always imposes its own connotation.
            Type:
            1. his father is disabled - worked as a shoemaker.
            2. his father is disabled, three times wounded, a veteran of the Great Patriotic War, worked as a shoemaker.
            according to the second it’s already becoming clear .. that he became disabled after the Great .. he became more than once .... and so on ... (and some ..... on a stump) .. I’ll start obscene)))
            Of course, everyone can add up .. and say .. and what after it was impossible to put in order? and everyone forgets that often the decisions on the spot are made by the barefoot crayons who consider money and who’s simple .. it's like a sickle in eggs .... and so on and so forth .. and blah ball.
          3. VAF
            VAF
            +3
            17 July 2012 23: 45
            Quote: urzul
            urzul


            Andrey, with all due respect to you. all that you have posted in this text ..... Sukhoi advertisement, no more ......

            Facts? The result is the failure of Armavia from the further operation of Sukhoi ... that's all ....

            What kind of gold is it, with rhinestones from Swarovski .. well, etc. it doesn’t matter ... they abandoned the plane, but instead they’ll take used 373 or 319,320.

            What else can I talk about?
        3. +3
          17 July 2012 18: 11
          What are you sculpting a hunchback here is the respondent with the calls of the Armenians forum look at http://aviaforum.ru/showthread.php?p=1130173#post1130173 "In this regard, I liked Poghosyan's answer to another such" interrogation with passion "after the presentation: well, as it happens - it happens that the bride runs away from under the crown, and not at all because the groom is bad ... "(c) Poghosyan"
          1. VAF
            VAF
            +5
            17 July 2012 23: 49
            Quote: viruskvartirus

            Why do you sculpt a humpback


            Well, why are you so harsh, +!
            Man defends domestic, there is no "domestic-screwdriver-assembly" aircraft, with huge problems and defects at the present time!

            But unfortunately we have nothing more to produce now. Say An-148 (158), I agree to all 1000%. The plane is better and better, but someone is at the helm .. Poghosyan, so all questions disappear. as well as Tu-334 "dropped" in due time!
        4. karimbaev
          0
          10 September 2012 12: 32
          horror! You can’t work like that, marriage is allowed
      4. +8
        17 July 2012 16: 34
        Quote: SenZey
        The fact that the Armenians refused is their problem.

        Something this statement of Arshavin reminded me of.
        The fact that the Armenians refused is just ours, and not their problems. It is strange that the article does not say how the KLA dynamized Armenia with the supply of SSJ-100. They could not deliver on time as much as they promised, but here they write to us, they say, it is unclear why Armenia refused to purchase Superjets.
      5. VAF
        VAF
        +3
        17 July 2012 23: 33
        Quote: SenZey
        The fact that the Armenians refused is their problem.


        Unfortunately, you are wrong, these are our PROBLEMS, because abandoned our plane, which was given on super favorable leasing terms!

        That the competition is on and it is fierce here you are right, but unfortunately, we are flying past ... in this competition, and even more so with Super, in the state in which he is now! crying
    2. Yarbay
      +4
      17 July 2012 09: 06
      Here Sergey wrote about the advantages of the Tu-334 SM over the superjet and the undercover fight, as a result of which they forgot about the Tu !!
      Totally agree with you!
      1. +4
        17 July 2012 09: 54
        And Sergei did not write how the Tupolevs at one time covered the Sukhoi bomber?
        Tu-334 cannot be sold abroad because 7 will take another year to foreign certification when it is completely out of date.
        And GSS has 68 firm contracts only from foreign customers.
        1. FID
          +4
          17 July 2012 10: 35
          Tu-334 has been fully certified. And firm contracts are solid ones. They will sell the car - well, but will not ....
          1. +2
            17 July 2012 10: 45
            all go only xnumx question:
            First, what certificate does he have?
            Second, and where can I use it with this certificate?
            A firm contract is already a supply contract.
            1. FID
              +3
              17 July 2012 11: 10
              The meaning in the certificates has already disappeared. What are these issues for? The plane has already been destroyed.
              1. +3
                17 July 2012 11: 48
                Besides, no one can buy it outside of the country without them.
                1. VAF
                  VAF
                  +3
                  18 July 2012 00: 11
                  Quote: urzul

                  Besides, no one can buy it outside of the country without them.


                  Absolutely not true!

                  A type certificate is one thing, and the conclusion on compliance with ICAO standards and requirements is completely different, and the country that bought this plane itself issues a certificate to this plane!

                  I’ll tell you the secret of the General, but we still have neither the An-12th nor the IL-76 have a type certificate, but were adopted by order of the Air Force Group, back in ...... the eleventh year.

                  But this absolutely does not prevent these aircraft from being operated and flying in various countries and standing in their arms.
            2. VAF
              VAF
              +4
              18 July 2012 00: 07
              Quote: urzul

              all go only xnumx question:
              First, what certificate does he have?


              Put incorrect questions, the car was on certification tests, but at the same time managed to get:

              1. Airworthiness certificate (type certificate).
              2. Certificate according to AP-25, JAR, FAR.
              3. Conclusion on compliance with Chapter IV of the ICAO Noise, for further certification.

              Well, etc.

              Quote: urzul
              Second, and where can I use it with this certificate?


              Wherever you fail! Your Super Jet just in its tragic tour just tried to engage in certificate validation in specific countries!


              Quote: urzul
              A firm contract is already a supply contract.


              Andrei personally, I don’t know yet at the moment a single solid contract for the SS-100, say the words of Poghosyan, and leasing operation in Aeroflot, subject to replacement with long cars, it was with the Armenians ....
              No further explanation?
              1. +1
                18 July 2012 08: 57
                Sergey, I’ve already given 4 times for links, don’t talk about the same thing as a blind person, if you don’t want to believe, then you won’t be able to convince you.
                Unless Poghosyan and Putin personally ask you to write a receipt
        2. Yarbay
          +3
          17 July 2012 11: 06
          But where does what the Tupolevs did, what the Antonovtsy did ??
          This is Russia's prestige at stake !!
          What a local showdown!
          And about Sergey (vaf), I know him as a decent, honest and loving person, I respect him for that!
          1. +2
            17 July 2012 11: 49
            While there was always a bickering between design bureaus, and Sukhoi had a very good liner, foreign orders are a clear example.
            1. Yarbay
              +4
              17 July 2012 11: 54
              you can’t see that a good plane came out!
              I saw the data of Tu and your vaunted superjet (which has many foreign-made components, including engines, if I'm not mistaken)
              According to those data, the superjet is a head-on one!
              1. +3
                17 July 2012 12: 06
                What kind of data? links and calculations to the studio, in response I will provide my own. It’s not a bad plane, but it won’t become commercially successful, unless Russian airlines force them to buy it.
                1. Yarbay
                  +2
                  17 July 2012 12: 19
                  in one of the topics Sergey gave all the data!
                  I'm too lazy to look for it now, but everything was clear and extremely clear!
                  Refer to waf !!
                  do not be fooled by the superjet too by force and will buy and buy !!
                  And about Tu it’s your insinuations, it could become much more competitive than a superjet, especially at least half the foreign-made superjet !!
                  1. +3
                    17 July 2012 12: 28
                    Are you talking about Veteran?
                    Well, how can I say more than 200 orders already exist, after 300 we can say that he paid off the investment.
                    and 68 foreign aircraft also forced? But this is 30% of orders.

                    Comparison of data cards to certificates for An148, Tu334 and SSJ, point by point. Everything, as recorded in the certificates:


                    date of issue :
                    An-148 26.02.2007
                    Tu-334 30.12.2003
                    Superjet 100 28.01.2011

                    engines and traction
                    An-148- 100B:
                    Set thrust values ​​(H = 0, V = 0, CA), kgs:
                    - maximum take-off (MTO) 6470
                    - maximum continuous 5650
                    - when turning on the CDM 7180 mode

                    Tu-334
                    - maximum take-off thrust at sea level (H = 0, V = 0, CA), kgs: 7650

                    Superjet-100-95B
                    Set thrust values ​​(H = 0, V = 0, MCA), kgs:
                    - maximum take-off (MTO) 7684
                    - normal take-off (NTO) 6982 (supported in the range up to MCA + 15 ° C)
                    - maximum continuous 6637 (supported in the range up to MCA + I0 ° C)

                    Mass characteristics of the aircraft, kg:

                    An-148- 100B
                    Maximum taxiing weight, kgf ................... 41 700
                    Maximum take-off weight, kgf ................... 41 550
                    Maximum landing weight, kgf .............. 36 250
                    Maximum mass without fuel, kgf ............... 34 170
                    Maximum mass of refueling fuel, kgf .. 11 420
                    Maximum payload .............. 9 000

                    Tu-334
                    Maximum taxiing weight ……………… .. 48 180
                    Maximum take-off weight ……………… .. 47 900
                    Maximum landing weight ……………… 43 500
                    Maximum mass without fuel …………… .. 41 650
                    The maximum mass of refueling fuel ....... 10 100
                    Maximum payload .............. 12 000

                    Superjet-100
                    Maximum taxiing weight ……………… .. 46 055
                    Maximum take-off weight ……………… .. 45 880
                    Maximum landing weight ……………… 41 000
                    Maximum mass without fuel …………… .. 40 000
                    Minimum flight weight ………………… 27 400
                    The maximum mass of refueling fuel ....... 12 327 (with specific gravity of fuel 0,78 kg / cm3)
                    Maximum payload .............. 12 245

                    Instrument Speed ​​and M Limitations
                    An-148- 100B
                    Maximum operational flight speed (VMO) 570 km / h (9100 m)
                    Maximum operational number M (Mmo) - 0,80
                    Maximum flight speed with the released chassis, km / h - 400
                    Maximum flight speed during cleaning and landing gear, km / h 370

                    Tu-334
                    Maximum Operating Airspeed (VMO) 580 km / h
                    Maximum operational number M (Mmo) - 0,80
                    Maximum flight speed with the released chassis, km / h - 500
                    Maximum flight speed during cleaning and landing gear, km / h 360

                    Superjet-100
                    Maximum operational flight speed (VMO), knots (kt) - 308 (570 km / h)
                    Maximum operational number M (Mmo) - 0,81
                    Maximum flight speed with the released VLE chassis, units (kt) - 255 (472 km / h)
                    Maximum flight speed with the release of the VLo chassis, units (kt) - 255 (472 km / h)
                    Maximum flight speed when cleaning the VLO chassis, units (kt) - 215 (215 400 km / h)

                    Centering range,% SAX:

                    An-148- 100B
                    front-front 22
                    extreme rear 41

                    Tu-334
                    front-front 24
                    extreme rear 50

                    Superjet-100
                    front-front 8
                    extreme rear 36

                    Maneuverable overloads allowed in operation:

                    An-148- 100B
                    a) when flying with retracted mechanization:
                    - maximum 2,5
                    - minimum 0
                    b) when flying with mechanization issued:
                    - maximum 2,0
                    - minimum 0

                    Tu-334
                    a) when flying with retracted mechanization:
                    - maximum 2,0
                    - minimum 0,1
                    b) when flying with mechanization issued:
                    - maximum 1,7
                    - minimum 0,5

                    Superjet-100
                    a) with flaps and slats removed:
                    - maximum 2,5
                    - minimum minus 1,0
                    b) with flaps and slats released:
                    - maximum 2,0
                    - minimum 0

                    Maximum operational altitude:

                    An-148- 100B
                    for SARD aircraft of 1 version ... 11 600 m
                    for SARD aircraft of 2 version ... 12 200 m

                    Tu-334
                    12100 m

                    Superjet-100-95B
                    ft: 40000
                    meters: 12200

                    Minimum crew

                    An-148: Two people: commander of the aircraft, co-pilot
                    Tu-334: Three people: aircraft commander, co-pilot, flight engineer
                    Superjet-100: Two pilots: aircraft commander, co-pilot

                    Maximum number of passengers:

                    En-148: 80
                    Tu-334: 102
                    Superjet 100: 98

                    Airfield Class, Runway Width

                    An-148: not less than 35 m;
                    Tu-334: not less than 40 m,
                    Superjet-100: at least 42 m.

                    The height of the airfield, m

                    An-148: From minus 300 to 1500 (by barometric pressure)
                    Tu-334: 1000 (by barometric pressure)
                    Superjet-100: From minus 300 to 1500 (by barometric pressure)

                    Outdoor air temperature at the ground, ° С:

                    En-148: -55 to + 45
                    Tu-334: from -30 to + 30
                    Superjet-100: -40 to + 40 + 45

                    Runway Status:

                    An-148:
                    - dry, wet, wet
                    - with sections of standing water up to 10 mm thick in an area of ​​not more than 50% of the runway
                    - covered with hoarfrost and hoarfrost
                    - coated with a layer of slush up to 15mm
                    - covered with a layer of wet or fresh snow up to 50 mm thick
                    Note: for all runway conditions, the standard traction coefficient (c) must be at least 0,3.

                    Tu-334:
                    - dry
                    - wet (with a standard coefficient of adhesion should be at least 0,45)

                    Superjet 100:
                    - dry;
                    - wet;
                    - wet with separate sections of standing water up to 3 mm thick;
                    - covered with a thin layer of precipitation up to 3 mm thick or a layer of dry freshly fallen snow up to 10 mm thick.
                    Note: for all runway conditions, the standard traction coefficient (c) must be at least 0,3.

                    Minimum for landing and types of flights:
                    An-148:
                    ICAO Category II in AZP mode
                    ICAO category I in the AZP and DZP modes

                    Tu-334: Aircraft approved for flying under weather conditions corresponding to the rules of visual flight

                    Superjet 100:
                    The aircraft is certified to perform ICAO Category II landing.

                    The maximum components of wind speed during takeoff and landing:

                    An-148:
                    - oncoming: 25 m / s
                    - with automatic approach mode in ICAO category I and II conditions: 15 m / s
                    - passing: 5 m / s
                    - lateral (at an angle 90 ° to the runway axis):
                    -when c> 0,55 - 15 m / s
                    -with 0,55 to 0,3 - Limitations on the lateral component of wind speed in accordance with section 2.02,07 of the Flight Manual (JIP) of the aircraft
                    - with automatic approach mode in ICAO category II conditions: 8 m / s

                    Tu-334:
                    - oncoming: 20 m / s
                    - passing: 5 m / s
                    - lateral (at an angle 90 ° to the runway axis): 10 m / s

                    Superjet 100:
                    - oncoming: 25 m / s
                    - with automatic approach mode in ICAO category II conditions: 15 m / s
                    - passing: 5 m / s
                    - lateral (at an angle 90 ° to the runway axis):
                    - at c> 0,55: 15 m / s
                    -with 0,55 to 0,3 - Limitations on the lateral component of wind speed in accordance with section 2.02,07 of the Flight Manual (JIP) of the aircraft
                    - with automatic approach mode in ICAO category II conditions: 8 m / s

                    Icing operations

                    An-148: Allowed with an outside temperature of at least minus 20 ° C.

                    Tu-334: Take-off and flying under conditions of actual and forecast icing are prohibited

                    Conditions and flight routes

                    An-148: Allowed flights:
                    - day and night;
                    - according to the rules of visual flight and instrumentation;
                    in the latitudes of the northern and southern hemispheres in the range from 70 ° north to 55 ° south;
                    - on routes with acceptable gaps in the MB communication fields defined for 80% of the effective radio horizon, not more than 1 hours of flight;
                    - in the conditions of BRNAV;
                    - with a reduced minimum vertical separation (RVSM);
                    - in the airspace of countries with requirements for the presence on board of the TCAS collision warning system (ATP).

                    Tu-334: Flights with a minimum of vertical separation RVSM, along the routes of regional navigation B-
                    RNAV with RNP guidelines - prohibited.

                    Superjet 100:

                    Allowed flights:
                    - under icing conditions;
                    - over water with a distance from the coast of not more than 30 minutes of flight in the presence of rescue equipment;
                    - to aerodromes located at latitudes of the northern and southern hemispheres in the range from 70 ° north to 55 °
                    south latitude;
                    - on routes equipped with secondary surveillance radars (SSR) operating in the “RBS” mode, with allowable gaps in the MB communication fields defined for 80% effective radio horizon:
                    - no more than 5 minutes of flight in the absence of DKMV radio stations on board;
                    - no more than 1 flight hours if there is one DKMV radio station on board;
                    - more than 1 hours of flight in the presence of two DKMV radio stations on board
                    - in the conditions of BRNAV (RNP-5), along the tracks with a width of ± 5 km, ± 10 km;
                    - in conditions of minimum vertical separation 300m (1000ft) (RVSM).
                    1. Yarbay
                      +2
                      17 July 2012 12: 55
                      Yes, I'm talking about the Veteran!
                      Do you doubt his competence or his honesty ??
                      and your table is unethical in some places, Tu data is released, and the other two planes are written and largely tailored for the superjet!
                      And I repeat the superjet is not a domestic plane, but at least 50 percent foreign!
                      1. +1
                        17 July 2012 13: 25
                        They are not skipped about the TU, it just has such a certificate, as far as I know, he is not a civilian pilot about the Veteran, and he also has data from a worldwide network.
                        http://aviadocs.net/MAK/AC/Tu-334-100/NCT231_Tu_334_100.pdf
                        the flight certificate for TU-334 itself, study for health, this is not a one-sided table, but TUSHA has passed certification. I quote:
                        Tu-334 is approved for flights in weather conditions corresponding to the rules of visual flight. Take-off and flying under conditions of actual and forecast icing are prohibited. Flights with a minimum of vertical separation of RVSM, along B-RNAV area navigation routes with RNP standards are prohibited (in other words, Tu-334 (yet?) can fly only in the afternoon, in the summer, in cloudless weather. The runway can only be dry and slightly moist - without puddles, slush, snow or stagnant water. It cannot fly along the routes of zonal navigation)
                      2. Yarbay
                        +1
                        17 July 2012 14: 15
                        Quote: urzul
                        about Veteran as far as I know he is not a civilian pilot

                        Are you a civilian pilot?
                        Maybe you are a design engineer?
                        I do not think that if someone is not a civilian pilot, then he is not competent!
                        Some military pilots are much more competent than many officers !!
                      3. +4
                        17 July 2012 14: 43
                        The data that I give you from designers, I am not a pilot, I am a manager and I understand what a profitable investment is.
                        What are you talking about the flight certificate of an airplane that tears all the Boeing and Airbase as an ace warmer did not comment? There is no arguing against the truth.
                      4. Yarbay
                        +2
                        17 July 2012 14: 51
                        Ursul!
                        I don’t understand one thing!
                        To my question that more than half of the parts and engines are foreign from your side are silent and unwilling to answer!
                        I think your questions will be answered by a respected person if I am here !!
                        and I didn’t write that Tu was like an Ace warmer for Boeing or Airbus, but it would break the superjet !!
                        So please comment, what I wrote, not what you come up with!
                        Against what truth ??
                        Against the fact that the superjet is weaker than Tu, it’s definitely not a mistake!
                        What a superjet with Boeing engines, where to put it ?!
                        Quote: urzul
                        I am not a pilot, I am a manager and I understand what a profitable investment is

                        Do you invest your own money or state money ???
                      5. +5
                        17 July 2012 15: 10
                        How silent it is, but how many of our certified equipment that we can put on foreign ships?
                        and I didn’t write that Tu was like an Ace warmer for Boeing or Airbus, but it would break the superjet !!
                        Right on my head ?! lol Well, I already exaggerated a bit;))) (180 passengers will be transported to 8000 km, unfortunate people lol )
                        Against what truth ??
                        Against the fact that the superjet is weaker than Tu, it’s definitely not a mistake!
                        TU can fly only in the afternoon, in the summer, in cloudless weather. The runway can only be dry and slightly moist - without puddles, slush, snow or stagnant water. - This is from his flight certificate, not my invention, and I have provided it to you.
                        And you just a couple of words to me, tear on my head. I don’t give a tooth lol

                        What a superjet with Boeing engines, where to put it ?!

                        I probably walked somewhere for a long time, where do they stand on it? not visible or what?
                        Has Sam-146 already become American? lol

                        Do you invest your own money or state money ???

                        Private companies.
                      6. Yarbay
                        +2
                        17 July 2012 15: 54
                        Tell Ursul honestly!
                        Do you have any benefits or are you really convinced that a superjet is better ??
                      7. +3
                        17 July 2012 16: 02
                        I have absolutely no benefits, I have never received and do not receive money from the government or anyone else (except for the employer), I am even in "hostile" relations, so to speak, with some of the EP
                      8. Yarbay
                        +2
                        17 July 2012 16: 12
                        By the way, I checked something now!
                        I ask you for an apology, although much is not clear to me!
                      9. +5
                        17 July 2012 16: 15
                        Apologies are accepted
                      10. Yarbay
                        0
                        17 July 2012 16: 48
                        Ursul!
                        I found it !!
                        http://topwar.ru/15670-aviakor-peredal-ministerstvu-oborony-rossii-vtoroy-an-140

                        .html # comment-id-419098

                        I would like to hear your comments!
                      11. +4
                        17 July 2012 17: 19
                        Well, he’s not even right with the release of airplanes; in the USSR passenger liners were never built more than 100 per year.
                        And all the attacks are honestly not new and copied from blogs and articles, so you can read all the disassemblies of black articles (I draw attention to the fact that none of the authors of black PR accepted a dispute with the designers, namely, they sorted the articles)
                        http://superjet.wikidot.com/start
                        So to say the list of administration:
                        This site is designed to collect and store information on the Sukhoi Superjet-100 project, including to counter popular myths about the project, circulating among dishonest media and narrow-minded people.

                        The site is neither owned nor associated in any way with the GSS, UAC or Aleia Aeronautics. All data is provided by participants based on personal knowledge and experience, or documents posted on the Internet. Answers to questions are given by highly qualified specialists of the company Sukhoi:
                        Engineer_2010 Leading Flight Test Engineer, Igor A. Sobolev. This is what he writes about his teachers.
                        Valery Popov (Head of the Department of External Loads)
                        Evgeny Nikolaevich Kovalenko (deputy chief designer, director of general design)

                        Sadif: I would like to express my gratitude to Designer Evgeny Kovalenko. Still, each person is the blacksmith of his biography, and behind this man's colossal experience in the missile and aviation industry of the USSR. He is in the project together with Yu.V. From the first graph paper, Ivashechkin was also the head of the general types department of the GSS, and led the Directorate of General Design. Having retired? continues to pass on its experience to young colleagues.
                        Klinkovsky Konstantin
                        Maxim (creator of the Superjet fuel system)
                        groomi - KnAAPO technologist
                        Sergey Ivanov - an employee of the GSS branch in Komsomolsk-on-Amur
                        Comet - NAPO Technologist
                        the site also has an interview with Alexander Dolotovsky, deputy head of the general design department of the GSS
                        Yuri Ivashechkin - the first chief designer of the Superjet, creator of the legendary Su-25 aircraft
                        Maxim Litvinov, head of the general types department (chief for the layout of the aircraft)
                        and others

                        This site was created by the type of Wikipedia: everyone can contribute to the content of the site with information. We ask you to register on the site, create new articles or improve existing ones. Any information is welcome: rare photographs, documents, comparisons, answers to popular myths. Thank.
                      12. Yarbay
                        0
                        17 July 2012 17: 49
                        Are you related to this site ??
                        and in general your work is connected with a superjet?
                      13. VAF
                        VAF
                        +2
                        18 July 2012 01: 02
                        Quote: urzul

                        Well, he’s not even right with the release of airplanes; in the USSR passenger liners were never built more than 100 per year.


                        Andrei, you are already starting to remind the distinguished professor of his obstinacy:

                        Well, you think I’m not right, and the register of the Aircraft Industry, signed and approved by the Government of the USSR, will suit you:

                        The number of aircraft produced by aircraft factories located in the territory
                        RF and ex. USSR, according to the registry of the Republic of Poland:
                        1969 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 1990
                        Russia 81 100 121 108 131 142 201 193 224 195 188 209 172 193 212 181 207 205 218 200 263 261
                        aircraft 61 68 61 53 56 58 71 81 83 87 102 99 81 71 51 28 38 37 42 51 48 61
                        helicopters 20 32 60 55 75 84 130 112 140 108 86 110 91 122 161 152 169 168 176 149 215 200
                        entire USSR 169 220 221 207 237 271 339 321 363 355 325 342 293 319 297 271 302 280 351 300 384 335
                        aircraft 149 188 161 152 162 187 209 209 222 247 239 232 202 197 136 118 133 112 175 151 168 135

                        1991 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 2012
                        Russia 227 297 162 54 51 28 30 19 18 15 13 14 19 28 49 66 57 71 63 61 43 10
                        aircraft 50 65 54 17 17 7 11 9 7 8 6 6 9 11 10 13 7 13 12 13 19 8
                        helicopters 177 232 108 37 34 21 19 10 11 7 7 8 10 17 39 53 50 58 51 48 24 2
                        ex USSR 310 397 202 84 69 38 48 21 21 16 14 17 25 37 59 69 60 76 67 68 51 16
                        aircraft 133 165 94 47 35 17 29 11 10 9 7 9 15 20 20 16 10 18 16 20 27 14

                        Well, about the Sukhovsky site, which you cite as an example, I will say one thing .... the case of the drowning is the case ... of the drowning themselves !!
                      14. +1
                        18 July 2012 08: 58
                        That's exactly what aircraft, TOTAL, not civilian liners.
                      15. VAF
                        VAF
                        +3
                        18 July 2012 00: 53
                        Quote: urzul
                        What are you talking about the flight certificate of an airplane that tears all the Boeing and Airbase as an ace warmer did not comment? There is no arguing against the truth.


                        Against what truth, Andrey ???

                        That is, if you call a spade a spade called ..... let Dunku in Europe, because Sukhoi Superjet 100 was the first Russian passenger aircraft certified in accordance with CS-25 EASA aviation regulations.

                        And what does anyone and where to tear something ??? And especially Boeing and Airbus ???

                        Probably not in Moscow for a long time, at the airports, so take a trip and look at the fleet of Aeroflot, Transaero, Yu Teira, etc. .... everything will become clear and understandable.

                        Oh, and by the way, are you aware that Aeroflot OJSC and Rostekhnologii GC have entered into an agreement of intent regarding the leasing of 50 BOEING 737 NEXT-GENERATION aircraft ???

                        In addition, Aeroflot-Russian Airlines and Boeing signed a contract to purchase 22 new Boeing 787 Dreamliner aircraft with delivery dates from 2014 to 2016.

                        The amount of the contract amounted to 3 billion dollars.

                        In accordance with this contract, Aeroflot has the opportunity to purchase both 248-seater B787-8 and more spacious B787-9. The choice of engine will be made later.

                        The whole civilized world flies a long time ago according to these rules, only we ..... well, then what I said in my articles before!

                        And many of the leading companies in our country have a lot of such news ... and something I even ..... between the lines ... I don’t see. what is it all ... breaking right behind the Super Jet?

                        And I would be very surprised at all if a plane consisting of 80% of the imported minced meat, all the more so lobbied, did not receive such a certificate ????
                      16. Old hamp
                        0
                        15 November 2012 00: 37
                        Rutskoi, Dudaev :)
                      17. VAF
                        VAF
                        +4
                        18 July 2012 00: 40
                        Quote: urzul
                        the flight certificate for TU-334 itself, study for health, this is not a one-sided table, but TUSHA has passed certification. I quote:


                        Andrei, distort again.

                        You give an example of the certificates of the first two flight samples issued by him for flying over the territory of the Russian Federation and for participating in salons.

                        It’s common practice at that time (passing tests, Mac-ohm issued certificates for two flying Tu-334,). So they then received certificates of type NCT231 and type certificates for noise NCSh145.

                        And what did you want to say in your comet .... that the Tu-334 reached only such a certificate and that’s all .....

                        Andrey, I beg you .....!

                        Quote: urzul
                        about the Veteran, as far as I know, he is not a civilian pilot, and he also has data from a worldwide network.


                        You know correctly, but he managed to visit the civilians for almost 6 years when he retired.

                        And where can they still be data from, because I can’t keep at home and remember all the flight operation instructions and all technical descriptions of everything that flies in ... the world ???
                      18. +1
                        18 July 2012 09: 00
                        So where is the link to the text about weather conditions from other drugs
                    2. 77bor1973
                      0
                      18 July 2012 22: 05
                      It’s interesting and who determined that the Tu-334 can only fly in dry, sunny weather, in my delirium! All specifications are almost the same, except for the design of the aircraft. That is, on the SSJ-100 with its cantilever engines suspended on any lawn, it is somehow incomprehensible.
            2. FID
              +1
              17 July 2012 11: 58
              Well, there are no planes abroad yet (Armenia does not count)! And domestic a / k only "buy" under pressure. For Transaero, it was necessary to become the designated carrier to Italy and France - they signed a contract, although regional transportation is not their niche. So far, only so.
              1. +5
                17 July 2012 12: 08
                In the final assembly workshop, there are already aircraft intended for Laos, Italy and Poland. They will receive it already this year, about the timing and delivery schedule, do not know what happens?
                1. FID
                  +1
                  17 July 2012 12: 49
                  In Voronezh, too, there were (already even in LIS) airplanes for Laos, Nigeria, for our a / c - so what? Stand on. It seems that you are working in the SCA. It may well be that super is really a plane. But you can’t fixate on everything. You yourself give the characteristics of three aircraft. What's in breakthrough super? For some reason, money is allocated for the reconstruction of KnAAPO, but VASO, KAPO, Aviastar, the same Irkut? Is some skew visible here? Or is it simply because Poghosyan still leads the KLA?
                  1. Yarbay
                    +2
                    17 July 2012 13: 00
                    Quote: SSI
                    Or is it simply because Poghosyan still leads the KLA?

                    I think here is the answer !!
                    And I did not see anything breakthrough in the table of characteristics of the superjet compared to Tu!
                    And considering that Tu is really of domestic assembly, I consider it to be the best and I repeat Sergey here gave a vivid example with photos and technical data, where Tu was superior to the superjet by its head!
                  2. +1
                    17 July 2012 13: 27
                    There will be MC-21 and money, a breakthrough in terms of technology that we have not previously used in aircraft manufacturing and in the fact that there is demand for it in the West, this is an economic breakthrough, and we will not fly further, transport more.
                    1. Brother Sarych
                      0
                      17 July 2012 14: 00
                      With a super-duper jet, they have already broken through ...
                    2. VAF
                      VAF
                      +2
                      18 July 2012 01: 35
                      Quote: urzul
                      and in the fact that there is a demand for it in the West, this is precisely an economic breakthrough, and we will not fly further, transport more.


                      It can not be a breakthrough that is not yet in .. nature !!!
                2. Yarbay
                  0
                  17 July 2012 12: 56
                  !
                  Quote: urzul

                  In the final assembly workshop, there are already aircraft intended for Laos, Italy and Poland. They will receive it already this year, about the timing and delivery schedule, do not know what happens?


                  Silvio's friend wanted to buy for a friend Volodya!
                  But now it’s not there and the order will be canceled
                  1. +1
                    17 July 2012 13: 28
                    It’s too late to cancel, the plane will be handed over in a month.
                    I repeat Sergey here gave a vivid example with photos and technical data,where is Tu exceeded the superjet!

                    Well, this is already complete nonsense, it can surpass by some criteria, but alas, it does not compete in any way even with full funding.
                    1. VAF
                      VAF
                      +2
                      18 July 2012 01: 50
                      Quote: urzul
                      Well, this is already complete nonsense, it can surpass by some criteria, but alas, it does not compete in any way even with full funding.


                      I will not repeat myself, tk. meaningless, but you are acting extremely incorrectly comparing the flight data of the real Russian Tu-334 aircraft, and with the declared promising performance characteristics (which do not correspond to reality) of the "domestic" (80% imported) screwdriver assembly aircraft Super-Duper Jet! !!

                      For the development of which they swelled so much money that it would be possible to buy from Amer 2 aircraft carriers of the Nimitz type, while NEW !!!
                      1. +1
                        18 July 2012 09: 02
                        Where is the dough data? IN THE DISCLOSED COMMERCIAL INFORMATION FROM THE GCC, there are no such sky-high figures, but they are not joking with such things
                  2. VAF
                    VAF
                    +2
                    18 July 2012 01: 38
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    Silvio's friend wanted to buy for a friend Volodya!
                    But now it’s not there and the order will be canceled


                    Dear Alikbek, I have already answered above about this ... the creation of the company of the Horn and Hooves, for promotion to Italy!
                3. +1
                  18 July 2012 01: 07
                  For Poland? What kind of aircraft?
                4. VAF
                  VAF
                  +2
                  18 July 2012 01: 34
                  Quote: urzul

                  In the final assembly workshop, there are already aircraft intended for Laos, Italy and Poland. They will receive it already this year, about the timing and delivery schedule, do not know what happens?


                  Andrei, well, do you like to splurge and take advantage of the unknowing people?

                  So tell us what 3 planes are for Laos. Ordered hell knows what year and what this small private airline is!

                  2. And the Italians, ... so for this, the SCAC sold the same Italians Alenia Aeronautica, a blocking stake, and without it, your Super-Duper would rot in the vastness of Russia at best ... well, so now organized the next - Horns and Hooves in the face of the SuperJet International company and the same are trying to "impose" on their own company a small charter supposedly 12 planes ???
                  And Alitali completely abandoned the SJ-100 !!!

                  3. Why don’t you report that Aeroflot intended to file a net of 150 million for GSS in connection with this. that the claimed range is not true ?? But Aeroflot is forced to take them into operation. is a national carrier?
                  And what flies just 3 out of 8 mi ???

                  ;. And what kind of Poland are we talking about ???

                  Well, about the schedule and delivery time, Andrei, honestly, do not tell, otherwise I’ll post the plan for Poghosyan’s schedule for deliveries and what we really have ... right. it will be very inconvenient .....

                  Let's not ... oh sad!
                  1. +2
                    18 July 2012 09: 04
                    And they promised to take away from the largest carrier of Mexico? about in which year, so the reason is a delay in development, and not that they cannot collect a lot.
                    The graph is just what we have, and not a virtual skirmish on words with pictures from RIA news and blogs.
          2. VAF
            VAF
            +2
            18 July 2012 00: 12
            Quote: Yarbay

            But where does what the Tupolevs did, what the Antonovtsy did ??
            This is Russia's prestige at stake !!


            Dear Alikbek, absolutely sure, ++++ !!!!! drinks
        3. MI-AS-72
          +1
          17 July 2012 21: 02
          Do not worry about what you don’t know, go to the AR IAC website and be very surprised TU-334 has a type certificate for a long time, if you don’t know what it is this is your problem.
          1. +2
            18 July 2012 09: 06
            Has, but you read it to begin with.
        4. VAF
          VAF
          +4
          17 July 2012 23: 53
          Quote: urzul

          And Sergei did not write how the Tupolevs at one time covered the Sukhoi bomber?


          Andrei, why are you so ... distorting ????

          In our country, there are a lot of such examples .... authority has always been in AUTHORITY, who were Sukhoi and Myasishchev during the time of Tupolev ???

          Who was Kuznetsov when Chelomei was ??? Although Kuznetsov’s missiles flew in those days, just like our anti-ship missiles and AKPs don’t fly like that now.

          But Bortini, and Beriev ... examples of the sea, so ..... politics is always at the forefront!
    3. FID
      +9
      17 July 2012 09: 14
      Tu-334 SM - there is no such car. There are Tu-334 and Tu-204SM. Tu-334 is a short-haul, i.e. regional plane. It was certified in 2005. Died for the sake of super. Tu-204SM is a deep modernization of the Tu-204. It seems that the KLA will kill him too.
    4. +3
      17 July 2012 09: 50
      Especially for those who are in the tank and believe experts like Gusarov with the aviation forum, Armavia refused the last aircraft under a contract, but a week ago a contract was signed with a Mexican airline for 20 aircraft.
      1. Goga
        +1
        17 July 2012 12: 31
        urzul - Colleague, how many serial CC 100 aircraft are produced per year? "Grabbing" contracts is not all, will these "solid" customers wait for their turn for years or will they first transfer the contract from a firm to an "option" and then simply buy something similar from Boeing, which produces dozens of aircraft a month?
        I won’t say anything about TU cars, it’s not about them, but Sukhoi didn’t do civilian cars and it’s very difficult to give birth to its first one, S. Ivanov still threatened to release them in a series 2 years ago, and the SS 100 still doesn’t fly normally - it fell into Malaysia, it is quite possible that the Malaysians refuse from MC 21 because of this - they do not want to take Russian civilian aircraft. Here is such a prestige of the country performed by the SS 100 ...
        1. +3
          17 July 2012 12: 44
          The GSS had a delay with the aircraft, this time, and secondly, Sukhoi has experience in developing even strategic bombers.
          But the disaster did not happen in Malaysia, but in Indonesia, and with them a contract was nevertheless signed for the supply of 12 boards.
          And how much comes out:
          2007 1
          2008 3
          2009 1
          2010 2
          2011 5
          2012 6 (at the moment) they plan to hand over 14 boards.
          total xnumx
          1. Goga
            +2
            18 July 2012 05: 56
            urzul - Andrey, I apologize for the "blunder" about the crash site. And thanks for the numbers, so far it’s not enough offensively - let's hope that Sukhoi will be able to spin up really mass production.
    5. +3
      17 July 2012 18: 05
      But what’s wrong with the jet, and a strange accident that happened at the wrong time and it’s not clear why ... but here’s a whole resource dedicated to the plane people monitor flights and write reviews ... http: //aviaforum.ru/forumdisplay.php? F = 44
      But the Armenians are cunning, they are bankrupt and they will not buy any Boeing .... here they are striving to achieve the maximum discount ... and they cherish their superjet and cherish ...
  2. Tirpitz
    +2
    17 July 2012 09: 50
    Perhaps, the Malaysians were not satisfied with the too long deadlines for the start of deliveries. Well, or, as they say about Armavia, they simply do not have money for 50 brand new airliners.

    It is easier to otmazatsya for the complete incompetence of marketing policies and economic intelligence with such phrases. I won’t say anything about the qualities of the plane because I don’t understand much, but as a marketer I’ll answer that the managers there are full of creations .... us. The whole world has money for boeing and airbags, but ours does not (which are cheaper) - this is completely absurd. IMHO
    1. +2
      17 July 2012 09: 55
      List of companies that ceased operations and had agreements with the SCAC
      09.12.2006 AiRUnion/ Russia 2009 95B 15 15 fixed contract November 2008
      19.12.2006/2008/95 Dalavia / Russia 6 4 26.01.2009 XNUMX firm contract XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX
      19.06.2007/2009/95 ItAli Airlines SpA / Italy 10 10LR 11.03.2011 XNUMX fixed contract XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX
      15.06.2009/2011/95 Malév Hungarian Airlines/ Hungary 30 03.02.2012 XNUMX - agreement of intent XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX
      16.06.2009/2/2 Gadair European Airlines / Spain - - 2009 XNUMX preliminary agreement XNUMX

  3. borisst64
    +2
    17 July 2012 09: 56
    I am glad that the Yakovlev planes are rejoining.
  4. anchonsha
    +1
    17 July 2012 10: 08
    The most nasty thing is that our officials act like bears in a china shop, they make a mistake after a mistake. Is it really impossible for us to engage smart, far-sighted people in such events ... The same thing happens with the Superjets .... They beat and beat the same officials in the brain.
    1. +2
      17 July 2012 10: 26
      I'm curious about everyone in the commentary mentioning the Superjet, but what is wrong with him? Did you fly them?
      1. Anto-iranets
        +1
        17 July 2012 11: 32
        Quote: urzul
        I'm curious about everyone in the commentary mentioning the Superjet, but what is wrong with him? Did you fly them?

        Somehow not so. Armavia refused, Aeroflot merges daughters.
        1. FID
          +2
          17 July 2012 11: 40
          Moreover, officially, Aeroflot announces a 60% readiness for supers. Those. half of the park is idle. You can, of course, talk about childhood diseases, but looking at the support that is being given to the super, somehow you hardly believe in childhood diseases. Another example is the An-148. He did not receive any support at all. We even have to carry a carrier in the cargo compartment. But the plane has already reached profitability. Only 3 years WITHOUT ANY SUPPORT.
          1. +2
            17 July 2012 12: 01
            He did not receive any support at all. We even have to carry a carrier in the cargo compartment. But the plane has already reached profitability. Total 3 of the year WITHOUT ANY SUPPORT.

            You don’t even have to go on, I understand the picture of your knowledge in marketing and economics.
            So for information, it’s nothing that only 17 pieces were built, and several for testing. So how much should they have been sold to pay off the development and construction cost of all aircraft? probably at a cost And Z80 lol
            1. FID
              +1
              17 July 2012 12: 56
              About 17 is it serious? Or is it together with Ukraine? You are probably a sales manager, so you know the cost. It seems to me that the 148th is cheaper than a super, but I do not sell airplanes, I maintain control systems, so I can be wrong. And where will the supers be served? Nobody has canceled forms yet. And as far as I know, in Sheremetyevo there is no service center for super.
              1. +3
                17 July 2012 13: 35
                Is it serious about 17? Or is it together with Ukraine? This is in conjunction with gliders for static testing.
                You are probably a Sales Manager, therefore, you know the cost
                .
                belay
                It seems to me that 148 is cheaper than super
                You are right and cheaper, but carries less. Well, as with the cost of the project I quote:
                At a low level of profitability, the main source of investment for this program at its initial stage is the budget funds of the Russian Federation and borrowed funds provided by the Development Bank. With a total estimated amount of investment in the 592 program, $ million,

                An-148 was able to exit, as you said on profitability.
                If its more expensive competitor costs SSJ 100 – 95: US $ 35,4 million, SSJ 100-95LR: US $ 36,2 million
                1. FID
                  +1
                  17 July 2012 13: 52
                  Well, Ukraine was breaking gliders. We are talking about the cost of the Russian manufacturer. If the super also reaches profitability in 3-4 years, then honor and praise be to him. It’s simple, while it is hard to believe, but wait and see. But I am pleased with your persistence in upholding your point of view. You just need to be calmer and not fall down on the bicker. We are all sane people. I have been in the aviation industry for over 30 years. It's a pity to watch what is happening in this area.
                  1. +3
                    17 July 2012 14: 05
                    But nothing that:
                    [Quote]main source of investment for this program at its initial stage are budget funds of the Russian Federation [/ Quote]
                    I honestly apologize for the attacks, I just very well studied this issue.
                    Better time to judge who was right, let alone wait not so long, everyone will show 2-3 of the year.
                    1. Yarbay
                      +3
                      17 July 2012 14: 17
                      Quote: urzul
                      Better time to judge who was right, let alone wait not so long, everyone will show 2-3 of the year.

                      Just in 2-3 years it will be too late to start again !!
                      They will forget about the guilty!
                      and in the absence of the necessary, Boeings will buy, well, perhaps Airbus, so as not to annoy the patriots !!
                      already passed it !!
                      1. +6
                        17 July 2012 14: 47
                        That's honestly in the morning no one gave me any facts of the Superjet's inferiority or its economic unprofitability, only a quote that Armavia refused one plane and a link to Sergey (he is not there yet, there are problems with the software on the computer)
                        But all polls are minuscule and shout that the loot was cut and this is with the undeniable fact of increasing production and increasing the number of orders.
                        So the question is, where are all the same brainwashed? On television, where are there no words about the superjet, or in blogs and forums?
                        I, unlike opponents in the article, cite numbers and quotes, not mythical assumptions.
                      2. Yarbay
                        -1
                        17 July 2012 15: 03
                        Ursul!
                        No need to say everything!
                        Since you are not rude and try to speak with at least some references and facts, I will not deny you !!
                        In one koment set a minus because of an incompetent remark, and then regretted it, immediately put a plus in another!
                      3. 0
                        17 July 2012 15: 23
                        But dear, it’s not respectable to lie, I’ll tell you a secret that I see who gives what ratings (I can show a screenshot with your nickname under the minuses to all comments) But plus, you really clicked once when writing this lie.
                        Sergei that under the nickname SSI, at least does not lie.

                        ps And where did you see the letter c in my nickname?
                      4. Yarbay
                        0
                        17 July 2012 15: 31
                        Tell me where you put a plus ??
                        call any koment!
                      5. +2
                        17 July 2012 15: 37
                        YES is not a plus, dear business, but your attempt to cheat.
                        As soon as I’ve been here for a year, all the pluses and minuses are on my drum.
                        Have the courage to admit your mistakes !!!!
                      6. Yarbay
                        0
                        17 July 2012 15: 43
                        me, too, on the drum, the pros and cons dear!
                        Don’t worry about my courage!
                        Now minus the principle!
                        blah plus clicked!)))))))))))
                      7. FID
                        +1
                        17 July 2012 15: 37
                        Yes, I’m just not used to lying. If you do not like it, I’m minus one. But when they talk about the case, even if I don’t like it, I won’t neglect it. But I don’t like super simply because Poghosyan rushes with him like ..... with a rattle, and the output so far is minuscule. I already wrote, with reference to Aeroflot - aircraft readiness - 60%. And there are already 8. SLE makes a fool of them, according to the engine of the claim. (I have enough friends at Aeroflot, I understand that this is the level of rumors, but I’m used to trusting my friends. And their opinion about super is not so hot). So the people do not like this plane.
                    2. FID
                      +3
                      17 July 2012 14: 20
                      That's just the point that budget money. It turns out everything Sukhoi, and other aircraft plants and design bureaus?
        2. 0
          17 July 2012 11: 57
          Armavia abandoned one plane, which daughters are interested?
          They will have 22 aircraft delivered.
          But what about the fact that over the past 30 contracts for 27 aircraft have been signed?
      2. 0
        17 July 2012 12: 39
        Superjet will not work, because not a Russian plane. A bunch of foreign components and development assistance from a Boeing (from a competitor!). There is little Russian spirit in it. The project is only the appearance of the development of the domestic aviation industry.
        1. +4
          17 July 2012 12: 47
          As everyone was brainwashed on the Internet, well, according to this logic, more than one country in the world does not produce purely its own civilian aircraft.
          Or stupidly needed, as TU-144 a lot of money and a year of flights, but their own and patriotic.
          Aircraft manufacturers must be able to earn money, not spend it.
          1. +1
            19 July 2012 10: 14
            The development of the aviation industry is expensive. Dear Tu-144, but we were able to build it and gain experience. And you can earn money by ordering the entire plane from the Chinese. We’ll put our labels and sell them with triple wrapping, and that's it. Someone got rich and dumped, and the industry died.
            It is necessary to cooperate with foreign countries, but wisely. All components, in which case they should be able to do it themselves, especially design. And then cooperation: from the west outdated technologies (such as effective project organization, marketing, design ... essentially a candy wrapper), westward advanced thoughts on design (essentially candy).
            One name is "Super Jet". Not ours. Our beauties: Tu, Il, Yak, An - century are already advertised. Everything is stepping westward, it's a shame.
      3. Diesel
        +1
        17 July 2012 21: 30
        I don’t like the name “SUPER Jet”, it’s not Russian))) wink
        1. Passing
          +2
          17 July 2012 23: 54
          Quote: Diesel
          "SUPER Jet"

          I, too, was shocked by this ingenious find of domestic macaquitologistsmarketers.
          The entire developed world frowns with disgust at clinically pretentious names in the GoldStar style and urgently renames them to something more stylish, like LG, and our "advanced" collective farm managers, on the contrary, wrinkle their few convolutions from the "too difficult to remember" RRG and urgently rename it into the gorgeous and resplendent SuperJet. fool
  5. Oleg Rosskiyy
    0
    17 July 2012 10: 33
    To such officials it is necessary to apply a measure of influence in the form of a fine in a percentage ratio of the planned agreements, as compensation for an intentionally disrupted contract, then they will be more hasty.
  6. -1
    17 July 2012 11: 47
    Quote: Oleg Rosskiyy
    a penalty should be applied in the form of a fine as a percentage

    For me, this is already a question of mass executions. Naturally, under the wrecking law. :about)
  7. Brother Sarych
    0
    17 July 2012 13: 56
    To put it mildly, the results are mixed!
    The results are catastrophic - they could not really organize an exit and their own program, they received goodies from everyone who can and cannot be ...
    Armavia refused Super-duper jet - what could be worse? That says a lot, put all the eggs in one basket and banged on the floor, it’s clear that now few people will believe in the generally mythical MS-21, from which only a toilet model was transported to some past exhibition (apparently, as the most important part)...
    With the departure of the aerobatic team - generally a shame !!!!!
  8. +1
    17 July 2012 18: 15
    One can argue about the awesomeness of the "superjet" before greening, but the fact is obvious: they don't take, Herods, such a cool plane! Do not take! So they need to prove. We are discussing the results of the air show, but, alas! They look not great at all. And we don't have a few more years to promote the liner - the competition is too high. While some dreams and plans are huge!
  9. +1
    17 July 2012 19: 34
    it’s impossible to conquer markets by making less than 10 cars a year. This also applies to the 148x and CCJ 100.
  10. MI-AS-72
    0
    17 July 2012 21: 56
    Tu-334 was created in the USSR, about 100 million dollars were spent on its creation. And even after almost 20 years, it is quite comparable to the Superjet 100. On the Super Jet, about $ 4 billion. Moreover, it is 90% slap from finished parts of foreign production. That is, already - the car of yesterday. Confirmation of this lack of demand, even in the domestic market. Why would the Tu-334 be better just during this time and with this money you can bring the TU to the world level. And so the state money is again in no where.
    1. VAF
      VAF
      +2
      18 July 2012 01: 55
      Quote: MI-AS-72
      On Super Jet, about $ 4 billion.


      Well, you dear, somehow modest, .. they will get dirty because of some 4 billion .... 7 (!!!) and not a cent less !!!!

      And how many new millionaires have appeared and how many real estate in Italy have bought up ... all of Nice ... on ... pah. you, ours almost said ... of course IHNYA !!!
  11. the gray wolf
    +3
    17 July 2012 22: 31
    fucking .. to ruin Tushka and Ilya and build a plane from scratch having commissioned this design bureau that built only destroyers + 90% of foreign parts - laughter and only - cut 100% bablosoa, would give these 4 + 3 (7) billion Tu and Ilu to modernization of the lineup and business. I imagine in the USA they would refuse passenger Boeings and would suggest Lockhead Martin to build civilian aircraft. this could only happen in Russia.
  12. 0
    18 July 2012 01: 06
    Quote: urzul
    http://aviaforum.ru/showthread.php?p=1130173#post1130173


    For Poland? What kind of aircraft?
  13. +2
    18 July 2012 04: 44
    Well, since the results of sales of domestic aircraft are deteriorating, then everything is shitty. No one even says that the aircraft industry would take it and bend at once, but its gradual dying is evident.
    A big minus to our leaders.
  14. +2
    18 July 2012 09: 18
    In general, arguing is useless:
    Everyone is screaming and a lot of billions of dollars spent on GSS, without specific documents
    Everyone shouts that no one is buying it, again, without bringing facts (the same army did not give an official notification to the GSS), they do not believe the data of the contracts, and they say that everyone is forced to buy it (but I’m interested in what Americans, Mexicans were forced to do)
    Veteran says that nafig all certificates, it is necessary to sell and let the customers fuck .... they themselves. But here's something stubbornly none of the European airlines want such happiness. Give everyone certified cars in Europe.
    About the fact that 3 cars from 8 fly, is not true. The percentage of availability is 70% in Aeroflot. But it’s better to comment on how recently An-148 chassis details during takeoff on GDP remained.
    About fanbaro is also not clear, everything is depressed in the article, and the mention of the contract for 30 CC100 is somehow strange.
    By the way, what were the orders on the Tu-334? besides Iran’s desire to produce them at home?

    In general, draw your own conclusions, I’m not you, you won’t convince me, but whoever is right or not will show time.
    1. VAF
      VAF
      +1
      18 July 2012 10: 30
      Quote: urzul

      In general, arguing is useless:


      Here I absolutely agree with you, +! " drinks


      Quote: urzul
      I am not you, not you will not persuade me, but whoever is right or not will show time.


      And here .... in general, without words ... +++++ !!!! Speech of the HEALTHY person!
      If you could put as many pluses as you can take +++++++++ !!!!!!! good

      The only thing I would like to add is, briefly, that it would be clear why I am an ardent opponent of the Super Jet, because half of the NAPO is given to almost all of its production, instead of only the Su-34, the plant is also engaged in .. ..... and that we have so many of them, these Su-34s ???
      And here we are bursting spears, why are they releasing so little?
      The same thing at KNAPO, instead of throwing all the strength and power on the Su-35S and T-50, the final assembly and debugging is done by the Komsomol members?! Ё
      This is very surprising and annoying to me!

      Especially today I called the guys in Moscow, asked about the SJ-100, your info does not correspond to reality.

      I will not give statistics, because we agreed that time will tell, very little is left before the end of the year, and all the more so since under the contract with Laos they should already have been transferred to the customer!

      It was very nice to talk with respect, +! drinks
    2. 77bor1973
      0
      18 July 2012 22: 27
      It was just necessary to produce something for ourselves, to gain operational experience and everything would go, in my opinion the move is quite effective!
  15. Uncle Serozha
    +4
    18 July 2012 12: 09
    Unexpected refusals from the purchase of our cars, as well as the conversion of firm orders into options may be the result of the use of financial leverage by the same Boeing or Airbus. They do not want to see a new competitor in the market in the form of our aircraft manufacturers. In a strategic perspective, it is more profitable for them to sell their cars to the same Armavia without profit or even at a loss to crush competition in the bud. They have money for it now.
    Don't think this is another "conspiracy theory" - just remember two sad stories:

    1. Like Boeing, Lockheed, and Conver, after a joint war, they killed British civilian aircraft. And they killed! And Viscount, Vanguard, VC-10 were great cars for their time.

    2. As in the sixties and seventies, the same people killed the Japanese YS-11, who suddenly jumped out like a little devil from a snuff-box, which was by far the best regional car in the world for those times. And also successfully - production was curtailed.

    It seems to me that in the field of civil aircraft construction, it will not be enough for us just to produce good aircraft (I have no doubt that we CAN do this). We also have to train an army of competent financiers capable of lobbying the interests of our aircraft manufacturers - "financial special forces" of quiet bespectacled people, relying on the support of the Russian Government (the WTO can be bypassed - there are ways). And then this Boeing will receive unexpected refusals from Armavia. Moreover, without the support of Russia, Armenia will in any case feel unwell.

    To the question of where to get incorruptible officials, I’ll answer honestly - I don’t know.
  16. MI-AS-72
    +2
    18 July 2012 20: 15
    "The aristocracy of the trash heap dictates the fashion for morality, I don't give a damn, but my heart hurts and sadness hits the liver." (S. Trofimov)
    While in the Russian economy, and in the country as a whole, everything is decided by the gangster-administrative-command resource of achievements in aviation, comparable to the appearance of the Su-27, they should not be expected, they can come only if each creature has a sense of responsibility for , what is she doing.
  17. +4
    18 July 2012 21: 49
    I read, thought and understood the Russian aviation caput, no matter who speaks. It is a pity, but what was the story, how people tried, hoped, saw how the fairy tale became true. How they loved aviation and pilots, how proud they were that they knew how to create everything themselves with their own hands. now we see only convulsive attempts that do not end in anything good. It is a pity that there is little life left and the hope of a change for the better remains less and less.
    1. 0
      29 August 2012 20: 32
      The glass is half full colleague !!! It is not necessary to start a funeral march while the client is not dead !!! There were times worse, Let's stop hysteria together and we will pass on our invaluable experience to young people, both engineers and designers. We are moving in the right direction, we remembered that before everything worked for us, flew, was designed, built. THE ONE WHO DOES NOT DO ANYTHING stop