Military Review

The bustle around the Katran, or Noise and nothing

73

All according to the laws of the genre. Or show business. If they begin to forget about the star, a scandal must be made. Our hero is not a star at all, because scandals are not needed, but some media with a light feed of the same “Star” suddenly started talking.


It would seem, who needs it?

But at the Dubai Airshow 2019 air show held in Dubai, the head of our Rostec Mr. Serdyukov for some reason mentioned the Ka-52K.

Probably in vain.

Mr. Serdyukov did not say anything new, with the exception of confirmation that the purchase of Katrans was planned in the GPV (state arms program) for 2018-2027. And work on the Katranas, which, by the way, this year nevertheless completed the test program (quite successfully), will continue.

There is only one question: why? “Cui prodest,” as the ancient Romans used to say. Who benefits?

That's who benefits, it is completely incomprehensible.

Nobody needs a helicopter, which was rather quickly constructed in Kamov Design Bureau. Here to absolutely no one. With the exception of Egypt, which went to the ill-fated Mistral, for which Katran was being developed.

So the "Katrana" for Egypt is the only ray of light, then, sorry, darkness.


To quote Serdyukov:
“Let me remind you that four prototypes of the Ka-52K were made, which are now at the Kamov base and are ready to continue testing. But we need carriers that are not yet defined. ”


Media not defined. This is where it all ends. The point, and so bold ...

Well, the head of Rostec reminded us that we have a ship version of the Ka-52. The sense of this is zero, and complete. Just because there are two ships so far, and they are not Russian, which can carry the Katrana.

Egyptian ships and carry. There are no more carriers and is not expected in the near future.

Someone may say that the Ka-52K can be used on other ships and for other purposes. Good. At one time, colleague Kirill Ryabov quite clearly covered these nuances here:

Ka-52 perspectives: shipless helicopters.

Because just a quote from Ryabov:

“During the tests of September 2011, the Ka-52 helicopter landed on the aft platform of the large anti-submarine ship Vice Admiral Kulakov (project 1155). Established aviation BOD group, project 1155 consists of two Ka-27PL anti-submarine helicopters. For storage and maintenance of this equipment, such ships have two semi-sunken hangars in the aft superstructure. The well-known information on the dimensions of the Ka-27PL and Ka-52K helicopters suggests that the Katran is quite capable of fitting in the BOD hangar, pr. 1155. "


And one single question: why?

Why a large anti-submarine ship helicopters (two) Ka-27PL (anti-submarine equipment), is understandable. The ship fights with submarines, and here a long search arm in the form of helicopters is quite good for itself.


The Ka-27PL has everything that is needed for this, namely the Octopus, a search and sighting system that is able to detect a submarine at a depth of 100 meters from a very decent distance of 8-15 km.

The "Octopus" consists of the Initiative-2KM radar in the nose of the fuselage and the lowering sonar station VGS-3 ("Ros-V") located in the rear of the fuselage.

In addition, the equipment includes a set of transponder beacons, 36 sonar buoys, signal (landmark) naval bombs (OMAB-N and OMAB-D).

For the destruction of submarines there are anti-submarine torpedoes AT-1MV, APR-23 missiles and anti-submarine bombs of the PLN caliber 50 and 250 kg.

That is, the ship is equipped with two helicopters capable of finding and if not destroying an enemy submarine, then significantly complicating its work in the area.

Katran has none of this.

This is an ordinary army land helicopter, equipped in exactly the same way as its simple Ka-52 counterparts. Even the RLK "Crossbow" is the same.

In general, this is an attack helicopter for work on land targets. And despite the fact that it can be pushed into the BOD hangar, there is absolutely nothing for him to do there.

The bustle around the Katran, or Noise and nothing

Two anti-submarine helicopters on board the same anti-submarine ship - this is a serious help in combat work. Two land attack helicopters are laughter.

What awaits the Katrana?

Yes, nothing awaits them. This is a helicopter that was created for two (okay, four in a very distant future) assault landing ships. We do not have these ships and will never be now.

Issued copies, which began to be built by the arrival of the Mistral, of course, must be transferred to the service. In fact, the helicopter differs only in folding units, and this is exactly the same Ka-52. So - definitely not in vain collected.

Plus it will be easier to transport, at least some plus.


I must say that this is normal practice in the world. It seems that it seems beautiful weapon "Does not fire."

As an example, I would immediately like to bring the Belgian assault complex FN F2000.

Polymers in the design, a plastic easy-to-remove forend, in place of which various additional modules can be installed: a laser target designator, a flashlight, an 40-mm grenade launcher, a non-lethal M303 module designed for firing capsules containing paint or tear gas, a shotgun barrel and much more .


A computerized fire control module with a laser rangefinder and a ballistic computer that controls the firing of both the machine gun and the grenade launcher, which sets the aiming mark of the sight both for firing from the machine itself and from the grenade launcher based on data on the distance to the target.

But he didn’t look at anyone. Either the complexity of the design (although both right-handed and left-handed people can work), or the price ... As a result, a miracle complex was bought by 9 countries, and even then bought more at retail, to equip professionals from special forces.


Yes, the purchase by the Saudis of a huge party for their National Guard is not an indicator. It is known in Saudi Arabia that there is nowhere to go, but where is a good army and where are Saudis?

The same thing will happen with Katran.

Maybe someone will take it. Because Serdyukov and reminded. We have something to offer if you are interested. But Ka-52K simply does not have a future, because there are no carriers for it. And apparently, it will not.

So the fate of Katran is to be a regular at exhibitions and salons as an export ship variant of the land strike Ka-52.

But there is nothing sad or terrible about this. It just didn’t work out the project with the Mistrals, that’s all. If even the Ka-52 as a model was discontinued because of this, then yes, it would be an unfortunate fact. And so - the matter is through and through ...
Author:
73 comments
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  1. Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 27 November 2019 05: 53
    +12
    So the fate of Katran is to be a regular at exhibitions and salons as an export ship variant of the land strike Ka-52.
    Are statements too loud? Or, as always, is it all gone?
    Our fleet will have UDC and this is no longer in doubt!
    1. parma
      parma 27 November 2019 07: 00
      +4
      The main thing is that tomorrow they don’t say that they are not needed (because after all they talked about the UDC after the contract was disrupted) ... .. Yes, and I’m afraid the construction speed will not please ..... In general, it's all foggy ...
      1. okko077
        okko077 27 November 2019 12: 36
        +9
        But there is nothing sad or terrible about this. It just didn’t work out the project with the Mistrals, that’s all. If even the Ka-52 as a model was discontinued because of this, then yes, it would be an unfortunate fact. And so - the matter is through and through ...

        And here the author did not guess. The Ka-52 was pushed at least until 2022 under the pretext of modernization and stopped production .. Instead, a contract was signed for the freak MI-28 (NM), this imperfection will be released until 2027 in the amount of 100 pieces ... These crooked-arm Milevtsy already got their raw helicopter ...

        https://iz.ru/882708/2019-05-28/v-minoborony-nazvali-sroki-sozdaniia-modernizirovannogo-vertoleta-ka-52

        https://iz.ru/895015/2019-07-02/v-vertoletakh-rossii-dopustili-vooruzhenie-ka-52-raketoi-ot-mi-28nm
        1. okko077
          okko077 27 November 2019 12: 48
          +5
          We have everything through one place such as the "reformer-clearing man" Serdyukov ...
          https://aftershock.news/?q=node/732408&full
          https://ru.krymr.com/a/27954444.html

          That MI and KA merged into one holding. MERGED in what sense and what? Ka-52?
          1. okko077
            okko077 27 November 2019 12: 59
            +9
            A couple of Mi-28s will crash with pilots and drains can be planted with Serdyukov ...
            Я VS this PLUM .
            1. krot
              krot 27 November 2019 14: 47
              -2
              The author is all-consuming! Or he imagines himself a great thinker, such a "guru" in military technology, whose opinion presidents should listen to. Simply, so much scribbling and wasted ..) information is zero! And the forecast is not realistic.
              1. VO3A
                VO3A 27 November 2019 17: 05
                +3
                The author has submitted 4 links to you! From which he could draw such a conclusion ... And what is a superficial, windy, empty commentary and its author better than critical, but reasonable? Or maybe the Mi-28 has no problems, or the KA-52 and its predecessor have not been pushed for more than 20 years? Sometimes it's better to think ...
              2. Nehist
                Nehist 27 November 2019 17: 21
                +3
                The author quite reasonably wrote to you about Mi28. They can’t bring the car to mind for more than 10 years. She is already outdated and everything that is being sculpted in a hurry does not make her a normal combat vehicle
            2. bandabas
              bandabas 27 November 2019 15: 26
              +7
              They did not plant then, they do not plant now. He is a monument.
        2. VIT101
          VIT101 27 November 2019 21: 11
          +4
          Quote: okko077
          Instead, a contract was signed for the freak MI-28 (NM), this imperfection will be released until 2027 in the amount of 100 pieces ... These crooked-arm Milevtsy have already gotten with their raw helicopter ...


          Such abusive judgments have the right to give a man who flew more than one hundred hours on this machine. Do you relate to these?
          1. VO3A
            VO3A 27 November 2019 21: 28
            +1
            Do you live in an information environment? Or have you been discharged from a desert island? Have you heard such opinions before?
            https://www.aviaport.ru/conferences/43016/
            1. VIT101
              VIT101 28 November 2019 15: 41
              -5
              Your opinion and others like you are not interesting to anyone.
              1. VO3A
                VO3A 28 November 2019 17: 31
                0
                And you don’t have any opinion at all ...
    2. KCA
      KCA 27 November 2019 07: 28
      +1
      Yesterday, they wrote that Turkey might have to convert aircraft carriers into helicopter carriers, also a possible option to mount the KA-52K
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 27 November 2019 10: 11
        +4
        Do not steam. They push ATAC into Pakistan themselves (already a contract). Now they are actively in Brazil (just the marine version for the Ocean) - they are trying to shove, they issued certificates to 10 Brazilian pilots to control ATAC. The purchase of the Ka-52 will greatly spoil the reputation and export prospects.
        1. KCA
          KCA 27 November 2019 12: 57
          -7
          And what about the joint assembly of the KA-52K? The Turks, I think, with four hands "FOR" will
      2. Private-K
        Private-K 27 November 2019 10: 55
        -4
        That's it.
        Egypt - 14-20 cars.
        Turkey too.
        China? Why not?
        Or maybe the Indonesians want to?
        Theoretically, for a 10-year perspective, 100 cars will be typed.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 27 November 2019 11: 48
          +7
          Egypt so far bought only the usual Ka-52. The Saudis have not yet allocated money for the Ka-52K.
          Turkey - I indicated above that they have their own export project ATAK and ATAK2 soon. Buy Ka-52 - beat the export image. For example, the same helicopter purchase from Brazil - where Turkey is conducting an active attack, including on Mongoose’s daddy.
          China - it has its own helicopters (by the way, also from Kamov - it’s true to the classics) and it certainly won’t buy it.


          Plus they brought lightweight with radar

          Indonesia is doubtful, although they can. they have a bunch of DKVD.
          1. Private-K
            Private-K 27 November 2019 15: 29
            +1
            Well, right, you will be right.
            Although, what happened to the Turks with their variation of the ancient Mongoose ... another question. Yes, and the Ka-52K in terms of weapons, IMHO, will be much better - just in the foreseeable future.
    3. Civil
      Civil 27 November 2019 08: 11
      +1
      Well, yes, now it’s not needed, but years will pass, UDC will be built and the reserve will be so needed.
    4. Oden280
      Oden280 27 November 2019 09: 28
      +4
      Two large amphibious assault ships of Project 11711M are already under construction in Kaliningrad, for which basing KA-52K will be the norm.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 27 November 2019 10: 05
        +3
        Questionable. There will be feed for 2 sites (now 1). This is the main visual difference. What will be inside is unclear. Will 4 cars go into the hangar - like in Chinese? Or will the hangar be narrow as in Grena?

    5. donavi49
      donavi49 27 November 2019 10: 01
      +10
      UDC, even according to the most optimistic plans, will be commissioned by 2027. That is, by the end of the GPV.

      According to the last GPV, for example, there should have been 8 frigates 22350 - in fact there will be 2, and 8 will not even be laid. And 18 corvettes 2038X - there will be 8 at best.

      After 8 years, the Ka-52K will have to be modernized. From what is already in Kamov’s plans - a new radar for land vehicles. This is the closure of tests for the next 2-3 years. Another new aerobatic complex. Another integration of new types of weapons. After 8 years - it’s possible that the engine operators will come up with something. Durable workers and technologists - will introduce new technologies, there will be more metal printing on the printer (this already gives tangible benefits in weight with stable strength for one or several vectors).

      In general, for the new UDC - you have to do Ka-52KM. Or introduce a deliberately outdated car into the state defense order.
      1. bayard
        bayard 28 November 2019 02: 39
        -3
        If the UDC are ready by 2027/28. , then it is desirable for them to have an air wing already by that very moment. If the number of a given wing will be 16 - 20 helicopters, and its composition varies from the type of mission, then it is desirable to have its double composition for each UDC. Say, 16 Ka-52K, 16 Ka-27 \ Ka-29 or Killer Whales, 4 Ka-31 - of course, this is taking into account the coastal reserve. For 2 UDC helicopters, you will need twice as much. They will not be superfluous in the base, and if it is necessary to transfer a large number of helicopters to a remote theater of operations, in addition to the hangar, you can load almost the entire flight deck (after arriving at the site, the reinforcement group flies to the shore, and the regular number of aircraft remains on board) .. ...
        So it turns out that only for 2 UDCs by 2027 it is necessary to have (already have) 32 Ka-52s, and taking into account the needs for the 2 11711Ms under construction (which it would be quite possible not 2, but at least 4-6 ), at least 40 pcs. ... After all, they still need to be built ...
        So I think Serdyukov, who is now in charge of helicopters, raised the question in a provocative way, so to speak - "decide quickly with the carriers and give an order."
        VPK loves orders.
        The other day it was announced that the Marines would now be called "expeditionary forces" ... That is, the Navy will now have expeditionary forces. And these forces need carriers. Able to operate autonomously away from their native shores. That is, a structure is being created that cannot be done without the UDC. And I think that the matter will not end with two UDCs ... the main thing is to start here, and the appetite during meals will clear up.
        And do not think about money - they are. A lot of them .
        Of course, they will not be given a pension, it was not for this that the Maidan was under the "White House" (1991), but on the UDC, frigates, destroyers and other beautiful and status things - quite. And if, at the same time, a powerful shipbuilding production and new jobs appear in Kerch, as well as in Primorye (where Ka-52 is assembled), Ulan-Ude and other good cities of Russia involved in this, then I will be just happy.
        So, there is no UDC without "Katran" ... as well as "Katran" without UDC ... BOTH WILL BE BOTH! drinks
    6. Atilla
      Atilla 1 December 2019 09: 41
      +1
      They will, they will be with the leadership of today's Russia.
  2. Thrifty
    Thrifty 27 November 2019 05: 56
    +5
    Roman, this is a good reserve for the future. And then, as always, we don’t have enough money for everything. Here are the bearers in Crimea, and the Katrans will find a place and tasks there. It’s better to have a helicopter available now than then, frantically trying to create it.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 27 November 2019 06: 22
      +5
      Quote: Thrifty
      That will be built by the Verlar bearers in the Crimea, and

      If they build it. we have it like in a song: "everything is ghostly in this raging world ..."
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 27 November 2019 08: 28
        +2
        Quote: Aerodrome
        If they build.

        In the presence of live helicopters, if it squeezes, mobilize any ro-ro rover from citizens and the helicopter carrier is ready. See "Atlantic conveyor" wink
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 29 November 2019 16: 03
          0
          Quote: Alex_59
          In the presence of live helicopters, if it squeezes, mobilize any ro-ro rover from citizens and the helicopter carrier is ready. See "Atlantic conveyor"

          Do we have something to mobilize? Well then, the Foreign Ministry and the Ministry of Defense for several years struggled with the purchase of bulk carriers for the Syrian Express? wink
          With the mobilization of ships, everything is complicated - none of the private traders wants to fly under sanctions or a ban on entering ports. And mobilizing a ship under a convenient flag is not so simple.
          So either you need to create your own Sea Shipping Command, or a state shipping company (and mobilize its ships in which case).
    2. Ka-52
      Ka-52 27 November 2019 09: 34
      +3
      It’s better to have a helicopter available now than then, frantically trying to create it.

      stupidity. This is a ship-based version based on a land-based one. It was not built from scratch.
      1. bayard
        bayard 28 November 2019 02: 50
        -1
        If the production of the Ka-52 in Primorye is now stopped (purchases of the land-based version seem to have stopped), people will be cut, production is degrading ... and then they will wake up ... then the convulsions will begin. Production must be supported by orders. If not land, then marine versions. The car is good, it will also come in handy in the marine economy ... And then, after all, Serdyukov can "optimize" - he is a master at reduction and liquidation.
  3. Wedmak
    Wedmak 27 November 2019 06: 32
    +3
    The other day there was an article about the laying of two UDCs for 25 thousand tons. And this is at least a dozen Katrans on board, since they speak of "more than 20" heavy helicopters.
    https://topwar.ru/164817-v-vmf-rf-okonchatelno-opredelilis-s-parametrami-zakladyvaemyh-udk.html

    In any case, the development will come in handy. Considering how many such developments are in the KB safes, they did at least in hardware, and this is experience.
  4. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 27 November 2019 06: 43
    +7
    The helicopter itself cost a lot in terms of R&D, a lot of money has been invested in marine modification, so now, keep quiet in a rag? It is necessary to advertise, promote and all that. Another thing is that from the mouth of the patron of an officially recognized thief we hear this. The sediment remained, especially since not all spoons were found. )))
  5. svp67
    svp67 27 November 2019 07: 04
    +10
    the head of our "Rostec" Mr. Serdyukov
    Sorry, but WHEN did Mr. Serdyukov become the head of Rostec? Where did Chemezov go?
    "Katran" is needed. At least for the same support for the landing of the assault force and for its basing, now, before the launch and adoption of our UDCs, you can use any ship with a helipad or even convert any of the dry cargo ships. There would be a desire
    1. fighter angel
      fighter angel 28 November 2019 10: 50
      +1
      svp67
      Write everything correctly.
      "..." Katran "is needed. At least for the same support for the landing ..."
      But there is a Ka-29, it will not be able to replace its Ka-52K, since that landing can be carried on board.
      In terms of firepower, composition and armament capabilities, of course, the Ka-52K surpasses the Ka-29, but that one is a "universal", transport-combat, and this one is pure combat. Ideally, it is possible that "Katran" will cover / support the landing from the "twenty-ninth", ie. work in a bundle, like the Mi-24 - Mi-8, for example, during the landing of the Katrana they will deliver the first, powerful blow, break through the defenses and clear the landing site, and the second wave will go to the “twenty-ninths” with the landing force ... That would be nice.
      But we now have a "commercial" Armed Forces, everyone considers budgets, and it may well be that this option will be considered "excessive", well, like, what is enough for the Marines.
      1. abc_alex
        abc_alex 30 November 2019 23: 21
        0
        Quote: fighter angel
        s.
        But we now have a "commercial" Armed Forces, everyone considers budgets, and it may well be that this option will be considered "excessive", well, like, what is enough for the Marines.


        On the contrary. The main problem of Kamov Design Bureau even in the USSR was that normal developers refused to work with them. Not because the cars are bad, but because the series are insignificant. Miles provided the series in
        hundreds of sides, and Kamov, well, if tens. Have you heard, for example, about the shock version of the Ka-27? With missile weapons.

        The Ka-52, perhaps, will allow the KB to get out of this problem. Yes, it is an attack helicopter, but it already has a radar and external suspension attachment points. Theoretically, anti-submarine can be made on its basis. Then, in combination with the land version, the design bureau will receive a series and the opportunity to develop the series. It is in this case that the combination of Ka-52K and Ka-29 can become a reality.
        But the development of the zoo from Ka-27, Ka-29, and Ka-52 is hard to believe.
        1. fighter angel
          fighter angel 1 December 2019 11: 28
          +1
          I agree that the Kamovites need to maximize the functionality of the fifty-second for the Navy, and this is an anti-submarine option, whatever one may say. Then they will be able to interest them in the command of the fleets and receive orders for mass production.
  6. Amateur
    Amateur 27 November 2019 07: 21
    +3
    But at the Dubai Airshow 2019 air show held in Dubai, the head of our Rostec Mr. Serdyukov for some reason mentioned the Ka-52K.

    The general director of the corporation is Sergey Chemezov (since November 26, 2007). The headquarters is located in Moscow at the address: Malaya Pirogovskaya street, 19.

    Anatoly Eduardovich Serdyukov (Chairman of the Board of Directors of PJSC Rostvertol (since 2017); Chairman of the Board of Directors of PJSC United Aircraft Corporation (since 2019), Vice President of the Union of Russian Engineering (since 2019) [5].

    Mr. R. Skomorokhov has already started to confuse "who is Who"
  7. Butchcassidy
    Butchcassidy 27 November 2019 07: 46
    +3
    Long ago Serdyukov became the head of Rostec? There Chemezov ruled everything?
  8. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 27 November 2019 07: 59
    -5
    Here I will not argue with the author. In this article, everything is correctly stated, and it is not worth it at all to be scattered about "now and then ..." The "beautiful far away" will come, then we'll talk.
  9. Alex_59
    Alex_59 27 November 2019 08: 13
    +16
    Two anti-submarine helicopters on board the same anti-submarine ship - this is a serious help in combat work. Two land attack helicopters are laughter.
    I explain. In the position in which our fleet is located, there is no place for laughter. But the Ka-52K some place can be found. In particular, the project 1155 BOD, with all its anti-submarine power, has one small problem - the complete absence of strike weapons for working on ships / shore. In Soviet times, it was assumed that the BOD 1155 will be paired with shock EMs, etc. 956. But the latter failed much faster, and the BOD still serve. In the fleets of other countries, many ships also do not have strike weapons, but what is characteristic is that they are air defense / ASL ships as part of the AOG, that is, the strike function is delegated to aircraft carriers with their aircraft. We have aircraft carriers, like destroyers, etc. 956 is not enough.
    It is not uncommon that the BOD of project 1155 carry out solitary service (show the flag) in very remote areas of the oceans, where all sorts of surprises are possible. And to have one of the helicopters in the strike version can be useful. For example, a Ka-52K with a pair of X-29 missiles (and you can also use X-35, mmmm ....) can be a real threat to boat-frigate class ships. And, as the experience of British helicopters in the Falkland War shows, they can make a noise even when the enemy has full-fledged aircraft. In general, before going on a mission, thanks to the Ka-52K, the campaign commander has an additional, very effective means, and depending on the expected situation, he can either replace one Ka-27PL with a Ka-52K or not.
    It would also be great to have a squadron of these helicopters in each Marine brigade. All the same, the helicopter is tailored to work on the water's edge. If necessary, he can board any ship. It is very useful. And the experience of the same British suggests that even in the absence of special landing ships (and ships in general), the presence of helicopters is very great. Because, if desired, any mobilized ro-ro rover becomes a light helicopter carrier. And the "folding" Ka-52Ks will fit much more than the purely land-based Mi-24 / 28s. And an effectively guarded mobilized ro-ro-helicopter carrier arriving at the right time in the right place can "solve problems" very well.
  10. EvilLion
    EvilLion 27 November 2019 08: 49
    +2
    Folding blades would very much like the trackers. But in general, it is not yet clear whether a helicopter carrier is needed at all.
  11. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 November 2019 08: 58
    +6
    Still a little wrong.
    Firstly, Katranas can be based on Ivan Gren type BDKs, all the more so since a new modification of ships of this type carries an increased air group. And secondly, Katrans can be deployed on warships of the fleet, providing an amphibious operation. Naturally, not on an ongoing basis, but for the period of the latter.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 27 November 2019 10: 24
      0
      Well, there will be problems:
      - expensive, you have to deploy an attack helicopter formation to sailors. It is possible in several fleets (because the working conditions in the North and the Caspian are different, but you can’t quickly transfer vehicles to Pacific Fleet)
      - an extremely small target need.
      - big problems with real field practice. For example, Sharp-witted or Inquisitive goes to the BS in Middle-earth, there is no place for a helicopter to land on it. There is the Wise or Grigorovich - to land a helicopter on it = refuse a multifunctional substation. That is, if someone needs to be urgently taken to the ground, delivered a dispatch or small cargo, to conduct a patrol and inspection - this will cause very big problems. There are very few ships with 2 helicopters (BOD 1155 + Petro + Nakhimov + Kuznetsov + Gren / Morgunov - but it is also in question there, because this is a cropping of the intended purpose).
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 November 2019 10: 43
        +3
        In fact, everything is not as bad as it seems :))) We give our marines at least a squadron of quatrains to the brigade - they will get good fighting vehicles, but they will always find application. And in the event of war, we don’t have to land troops in the Middle East. There, if that, and the corvette will take
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 29 November 2019 16: 06
        0
        Quote: donavi49
        - expensive, you have to deploy an attack helicopter formation to sailors.

        And it will have to be deployed anyway - to support the same marines working as infantry. EMNIP, the Navy had plans for a fire support squadron for naval infantry brigades.
        Plus, the sailors are now transferred, EMNIP, two army corps.
  12. lopuhan2006
    lopuhan2006 27 November 2019 10: 19
    +3
    Idiotic and hype article. Throughout the text it is clear that the Katrans are not needed, that there are no carriers and will not be, that for an anti-submarine ship 2 PLO helicopters are good, and 2 Katrans are bad (captain is obvious). And the fact that the decision was made to lay 2 paratroopers-helicopter carriers on the "Gulf" by the authorishe flew like a breeze past the bench on which he scratched his Lampoon, for which these Katrans would come down. We don't have a mattress, we don't need much.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 November 2019 10: 46
      +6
      And what they made a decision, they will clarify a year there, in a couple of three they will lay it, but I don’t have any faith that they will be built at least 10 years later. In general, when they go into operation they will need a new helicopter, the katran will become obsolete feel
  13. 072
    072 27 November 2019 10: 20
    +2
    The presence of Katran and Ka-29 as part of the air force of the fleet will make it possible to have an air component of amphibious assault ready for immediate use. The experience of the Falkland War has shown that container ships and rollers can be used as base ships. The presence of folding screws allows you to organize hangar storage that will extend the life
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 November 2019 10: 48
      +4
      The experience of the Falklands just refuted, since the Atlantic conveyor drowned a little along with the helicopters, which greatly complicated the actions of the British Marines and delayed the ground operation
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 27 November 2019 11: 55
        +2
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The experience of the Falklands just refuted, since the Atlantic conveyor drowned a little along with the helicopters, which greatly complicated the actions of the British Marines and delayed the ground operation
        So, it does not follow from this that it is impossible / useless to base helicopters on a container ship. It follows from this that such a container ship must be guarded and hidden more carefully.
        And at the same time - if the hit that hit the Atlantic went to "Mistral", then the latter may not have drowned, but the result at the moment was the same - complicating the actions of the marines and delaying the ground operation. Because the conditional specialized Mistral would have endured such a blow not much better than the Atlantic - it would have gone out of action for sure. That is, the problem is not so much in the design of the carrier, but in its protection against impact.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 November 2019 13: 35
          +2
          You would be right, if not one important "but". The Atlantic conveyor was just under cover, but when the Argentines launched a missile strike, the warships immediately set up false targets. The GOS Exocet was led to the LOC, and the missiles flew into milk ... Unfortunately, in the direction of the Atlantic, and he, being a civilian steamer, was not equipped with LOC staging systems. So he died not for a penny, but a warship would have been in its place, would have put the LOC and survived.
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 27 November 2019 15: 44
            +5
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            The Atlantic conveyor was just under cover, but when the Argentines launched a missile strike, warships immediately set false targets. GOS Exozetov led to the LOC, and rockets flew into the milk ... To that trouble towards the Atlantic, and he, being a civilian ship, was not equipped with LOC systems. So he died for a penny, but if there were a warship in its place, he would put the LOTs and survived.

            Duc it seems to my calculations does not contradict. The citizen must be protected more thoroughly. By different methods. Including the installation of PU LTSO. It is not necessary to fence ZIF-121 with under-deck storage. It is possible to envisage the installation of "suitcases" with LC charges with fixed firing angles (they put similar ones on the Il-76, but not on a dry cargo ship?), Or PK-10, PK-16 launch complexes. I don’t believe that they get on the boat without problems, but not on the dry cargo ship.
            And then the Atlantic was really out of luck. And with the air defense that the British had, he could get not a rocket at all, but an aerial bomb. As a number of HMS warships, which is able to shoot and set LCO. Sir Galahad for example a warship, but what's the point? And "Ardent" or "Antilope"?
      2. 072
        072 30 November 2019 13: 26
        0
        If we take into account the number of mobilized ships in the squadron and the air defense situation, the loss of the Atlantic conveyor is not surprising from the large losses of the British saved only a large number of failures of fuses on the bomb
  14. Operator
    Operator 27 November 2019 11: 52
    +2
    The problem of the Ka-52 is an outdated coaxial rotor design with a flywheel movement of the blades, leading to a doubling of the weight of the helicopter propeller and limiting its flight speed.

    And to create a screw with a rigid fastening of the blades and compensating for the alternating bending moment due to the torsion of the shell of the blades, the Kamovtsi could not, despite the popularity of such a technical solution for the last 30 years.
  15. VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
    VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK 27 November 2019 11: 55
    +1
    So far there will be such as Serdyukov army and navy will not need anything
    The prison is crying for him, and Putin is nursing him. It is not clear who is produced by Putin or Serdyukov with Chubais.
  16. Andron59
    Andron59 27 November 2019 12: 06
    +2
    Stupid little article, with no less stupid conclusions.
  17. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 27 November 2019 12: 29
    0
    We are far from UDC, and the project is good in that there is a backlog for the modernization of the Ka52 ...... and maybe Mi28, in the light of unification.
  18. observer3
    observer3 27 November 2019 14: 10
    -6
    So you read such a shit-fake and ask yourself a question, and who is this writer, what does he know about combat use and planning? You didn’t come out with a snatch so that they would report to you on how, where, when, and how many new models of equipment will be created and how it will be used.
    There is such a development - the Caspian monster called it. If you put these two helicopters and the landing on it, it will be a magnificent complex of gaining dominance in landing operations at the sea and ocean theater of operations. Here the frontline alligators will support the landing one hundred percent. Hacking a defense using such means is as simple as a bucket. And if there are a dozen such carts? Allied landing in Normandy - resting. There is no reception against scrap.
    Again. It’s not for a journalist to evaluate the combat potential and the combat use of new models. his job is to write what they say to him, and not to draw conclusions with his meager mind.
  19. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 27 November 2019 14: 23
    +4
    Well, faq, you attacked the Ka-52K like that? Well, they did something stupid ... as it happens to everyone! Especially when the money is not your own, but the state! Now the main task is to give common sense to the failed event! What do we have there? Ahh ... equipping the UDC ... Reasonable! (1) Fire support for the landing! Timely identification of suddenly appeared targets, the most dangerous for the landing ... data transfer "where to" and attack dangerous targets whenever possible! (2) Next ... the primary air defense line removed from the ship! ... Katrans are armed with air-to-air missiles ... (3) Protection of anti-submarine helicopters Katranami with RVV ... (4). "Katrans" can be armed with anti-ship missiles "X-35" ... here is the "long arm" of missile ships! If you think a little more, then more examples can be typed ... yes
    1. dmitrich
      dmitrich 27 November 2019 16: 39
      -3
      Well, they did a stupid thing ... so with whom it does not happen!
      where are you so smart come from?
  20. Pavel57
    Pavel57 27 November 2019 15: 11
    +2
    The katranas on the Kuril Islands would look very harmonious.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. DAC scratch
    DAC scratch 27 November 2019 16: 41
    -1
    sadly, the helicopter is good and beautiful
  23. Victor zibert
    Victor zibert 27 November 2019 18: 09
    0
    Mdaa. Serduchka in her repertoire. The main thing is to breed.
  24. bars1
    bars1 27 November 2019 20: 34
    0
    Quote: Victor Zibert
    Mdaa. Serduchka in her repertoire. The main thing is to breed.

    Do not think anything bad! I'm not a fan of Serdyukov. But now, after your words, she is sorry to God for him! He is not engaged in shipbuilding issues, there would be proper carriers, and not 2 poor "Gren" and 2 a little better "green-like", recently laid down, he would certainly have attached them there.
  25. bar
    bar 27 November 2019 22: 52
    +1
    Some time ago there was an article from the same author "Serdyukov against Mil and Kamov" about the unification of the Kamov and Mil design bureaus. And there were many groans about this. Like a bad Serdyukov, he kills the design school of Kamov's helicopters, which our country needs so much. And here you are. It turns out Serdyukov, on the contrary, is lobbying for the production of "katrans", which in fact are not needed by anyone. Miracles and nothing more. The author slept and forgot everything? Or has the paradigm changed?
  26. Russian Central Asian
    Russian Central Asian 27 November 2019 23: 04
    +1
    Eh, all the same, how bad we are with marketing, We can’t even sell a good turntable to anyone. Here are the same Americans, practically any military crap of theirs, will be stewed by anyone and will not blink. laughing
  27. ol3g.ananjev
    ol3g.ananjev 28 November 2019 08: 53
    -1
    A very strange article. The author probably does not like that this machine is already making a profit in the treasury. In addition, the helicopter will be run-in in Egypt, which is very positive, and will already arrive on domestic carriers, taking into account the identified shortcomings. In my opinion, everything is wonderful, why this pan-propagating tone is not clear.
  28. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 28 November 2019 10: 59
    0
    “Cui prodest” as the ancient Romans used to say

    Actually "qui"
  29. g1v2
    g1v2 28 November 2019 15: 54
    0
    The helicopter is intended primarily for basing on udk. Egypt buys them for the Mistral. Our Udk have not yet been laid, even before this Katrana if u will be built, then only for training or based on Kuznetsov. Well, maybe on new BDKs. laid at Yantar. In principle, the main function of this turntable is understandable - support for landing and suppression of coastal enemy defense facilities. For this purpose, he is imprisoned. request
  30. Sergey Goncharenko (LoV)
    Sergey Goncharenko (LoV) 29 November 2019 12: 40
    0
    "Yes, nothing awaits them. This is a helicopter that was created for two (okay, four in the very distant future) strike landing ships. We do not have these ships and never will." The author is not yet aware of the fact that such amphibious assault ships - helicopter carriers are already being built in Russia ...
  31. Maalkavianin
    Maalkavianin 18 December 2019 13: 05
    0
    This is how we are going to build the UDC. So it is not clear why these "Katrans" are not needed. They are not needed now, they will be needed later. There will simply be their modification, and that's all.
  32. shoroh
    shoroh 25 January 2020 17: 53
    +1
    The novel carries a negative. Already really funny. Either for clickbait and to increase comments. Or, really, Roman did not hear about the laying of two helicopter carriers. In short, it’s just ridiculous to read and take it seriously. What does VO turn into?