Military Review

“Why did you come to me, traitors?”: The diplomat spoke about the meeting in Qatar after the collapse of the USSR

289

The theme of the collapse of the Soviet Union continues to be extremely acute in discussions at various levels. There is a group of people who promote the ideological position that the USSR was not viable, and that the Country of Soviets collapsed due to belonging to the variant of the empire, and all empires "are simply obliged to collapse."


Against this background, opponents of persons with such a point of view are inclined to believe that the Soviet Union collapsed due to the fact that it helped to break up.

On this topic, as well as non-related topics related to the events of the second half of the last century, reflect on the Day TV channel, on the air of which a diplomat, a former employee of the international department of the CPSU Central Committee, Vyacheslav Matuzov, is invited. One of the important topics for discussion: "Russia is not the Soviet Union, and therefore, nothing like our country is definitely threatened."

In fact, this thesis does not stand up to criticism, based on what was in our country in the middle of the 90's. The war in Chechnya threatened not only the loss of a single region, but also the collapse of the country as a whole - crushing into many separate parts.

The author of the program asks the guest a question:
Do you think the Soviet Union collapsed or the Soviet Union collapsed?

Vyacheslav Matusov:
The Soviet system was the most reliable socio-economic system that mankind has invented since its inception. I heard these words in 1995 of the year, and in Qatar. The then Minister of Energy told our delegation when we entered his office: “Why did you come to me, traitors ?!” We were taken aback. After that, he burst out laughing and said: “Well, what else can you call fools? You yourself destroyed the state, which we considered a model of economic and social well-being.”


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  1. Spartanez300
    Spartanez300 21 November 2019 14: 18
    +56
    The fact that they themselves destroyed the state fucking shit democrats, that's for sure. So that their devils in hell always ate for it.
    1. Squelcher
      Squelcher 21 November 2019 14: 31
      -22
      No country was destroyed by members of the CPSU.
      1. Mcar
        Mcar 21 November 2019 14: 47
        +40
        Quote: Squelcher
        No country was destroyed by members of the CPSU.

        What is straight all? All 18 million?
        1. Dym71
          Dym71 21 November 2019 15: 42
          +16
          Quote: McAr
          What is straight all? All 18 million?

          Not even 4683 delegates to the XXVII Congress of the CPSU, but only 307 members of the Central Committee + 170 candidates for membership in the Central Committee of the CPSU from 1986 hi
          1. Mcar
            Mcar 21 November 2019 16: 01
            +18
            Quote: Dym71
            Quote: McAr
            What is straight all? All 18 million?

            Not even 4683 delegates to the XXVII Congress of the CPSU, but only 307 members of the Central Committee + 170 candidates for membership in the Central Committee of the CPSU from 1986 hi

            US Foreign Policy Specialist Michael Ledin says: “Who under Reagan thought we would break the USSR? But it took some 8 years! We just took the salaries of dissidents and that’s it. A democratic revolution happened and the country collapsed. If we were able to break the Soviet empire in this way, supporting some kind of a handful people who advocated reform, and these people on the fingers you can count there was anyone who could doubt that we would bring down the Iranian government with the same success! ”
            Quote from here:
            https://topwar.ru/19100-priznaniya-razrushiteley-sssr-my-prosto-vzyali-na-zarplatu-dissidentov.html
            hi
            1. Tatyana
              Tatyana 21 November 2019 16: 51
              +22
              A very interesting video with a speech by a former employee of the international department of the Central Committee of the CPSU Vyacheslav Matuzov. However, there is one important point to his statement. Namely.

              For some reason, Matuzov, in a Bolshevik (Leninist) manner, does not touch upon the national question of all those "disintegrators" of the historically primordially Russian multinational state - in the form of the USSR - who stood behind traitor and agent of foreign special services Gorbachev, including the nationality of Andropov himself. But all of them were not just non-Russian, but for some reason, all as one Jews! It is possible that the hidden Zionists.
              And it is not for nothing that Stalin once fought against the Trotskyite Zionists in power in the country.

              So why did it happen on the national level that the USSR disintegrated into national "titular" administrative-territorial republics? To this Manturov does not give an answer.
              Those. to search for the reasons for this collapse of the USSR it is necessary in the historical plan much deeper.
              1. Karen
                Karen 21 November 2019 17: 07
                +6
                Quote: Tatiana
                But all of them were not just non-Russian, but for some reason, all as one Jews!

                And why is it in him to talk about the fact that everyone already knows? :)
                1. Tatyana
                  Tatyana 21 November 2019 17: 20
                  +17
                  Quote: Karen
                  Quote: Tatiana
                  But all of them were not just non-Russian, but for some reason, all as one Jews!
                  And why is it in him to talk about the fact that everyone already knows? :)

                  And then, so that in the history of the Russian and Jewish question - during the formation of Soviet power and its national consequences - no one would venture to go deeper. Failing to understand the cause-effect relationship of the geopolitical collapse of Russia - a country as such - working Russians risk stepping on the same rake.
                  Meanwhile, in the Houston and Harvard projects of the United States, this is precisely what is included - the geopolitical disappearance from the world map of ANY Russia: feudal, bourgeois, socialist - ANY!
                  1. Karen
                    Karen 21 November 2019 17: 22
                    +11
                    Wrong answer ... They will go deeper ... To finish off ... Then Stalin saved you, and today there is nobody ...
                2. The comment was deleted.
                3. The comment was deleted.
              2. demo
                demo 21 November 2019 18: 02
                +6
                They said everything right.
                Only need to look even further.
                At the dawn of the creation of our state was such an activist V.I. Ulyanov-Lenin.
                It was with his submission that the question of national self-determination began to be discussed.
                It was he who planted the bomb, which spread our Union into national apartments.
                I don’t want to write much.
                Just a long and in-depth deal with this issue.
                Many of Lenin's works directly and unequivocally indicate that "I don't care about Russia."
                Russia was needed as a bridgehead.
                Like a glow plug.
                She was sentenced by the Bolsheviks back in 17. Stalin just got his bearings on time and realized how it would end.
                Therefore, the "professional revolutionaries" - the Leninist guard and went to the chopping block.
                They need nothing but revolutions. Creation is not about them.
                1. Tatyana
                  Tatyana 21 November 2019 19: 02
                  +4
                  Quote: demo
                  We just have to look even further. At the dawn of the creation of our state, there was such an activist V.I. Ulyanov-Lenin. It was with his submission that the question of national self-determination began to be discussed, it was he who planted the bomb, which blew our Union into national apartments.
                  I will tell you more.
                  The main condition for political and financial support of all revolutionary Russian Social Democrats from abroad to seize power in Ingushetia for all leading so-called. Russian "social democratic" parties in Ingushetia there was precisely the administrative-territorial division of the Republic of Ingushetia on the principle of "titular" nationality with the RIGHT OF THEIR WITHDRAWAL from the COUNTRY - any Russia. Namely.

                  At the same time, the Bolsheviks began to cooperate with the Western special services, like all other revolutionary parties, back in the 1904-1905 years, and Lenin in the 1895 year.
                  And Lenin's party in the party on "financial flows" was his colleague Ganetsky (Furstenberg), who communicated with the foreign sponsors of the Bolsheviks - and it was still mostly not Germans.

                  If you look at the program documents of the main parties of 1917 of the year
                  then they all included a clause laid down in London in 1900
                  1. Social Revolutionaries "Federation of Independent Nationalities (Finland, Poland, Great Russia, Little Russia, the Caucasus, etc. - the Baltic countries, Central Asian countries.)
                  2. RSDLP "The right to self-determination belongs to all nations that make up the state."
                  3. Real party "The Radical Party considers it necessary to establish the principle of broad national and political autonomy."
                  4. Democratic Union of Constitutionalists.
                  5. Freethinkers Party. "The most complete form of autonomy, not only national, but also territorial, approaching Finnish autonomy, should be received by the Polish people within the Kingdom of Poland ..."
                  6. Party of Constitutional Democrats."The Constitution of Finland, which ensures its special state position, must be fully restored ..."
                  7. About the Jewish party "Bund", who actively participated in the preparation of the "goose" revolution, I do not speak at all! It represented the interests of the Jewish bourgeoisie and Jewish national intelligentsia in the country and under the guise of a Jewish proletarian party sought to seize power by the Zionists in the Republic of Ingushetia and Soviet Russia. At least she performed for Jewish national federalization almost throughout Russia.
                  The Bundists collaborated with the Zionists. One of the largest Zionist leaders S. M. Dubnov in those years put forward slogan: “Jews of all classes and parties, unite!”
                  During the VI Congress of the RSDLP (b) (July 26 - August 3, August 1917), the Bundists allied with the Mensheviks, Socialist-Revolutionaries, Anarchists, Zionists and other petty-bourgeois parties.

                  And this ORDER of the West was fulfilled by Lenin and Trotsky!
                  1. demo
                    demo 21 November 2019 19: 17
                    +18
                    You know, I’ll tell you this.
                    The Russian Federation is a state with a federal structure, i.e. nations and nationalities within national territories may voluntarily enter and go out from the state.
                    And THIS is the same mine that was laid in 17.
                    In fact, the Russian Federation should become another state entity, for example, the state of Israel (an example is not very, but there is no other).
                    And maybe the possessed Bandera seek to protect themselves from such a development of events, turning everyone into Ukrainians?
                    After all, who can give 100% a guarantee that those who come to replace Kadyrov (no one is eternal), after N the number of years when a sufficient number of male population is restored in the republic, will not put this question on edge.
                    The same can be said about Tatarstan, Bashkortostan, Mordovia, Yakutia-Sakha and further on the list.
                    Something needs to be done with this bomb today.
                    1. Sergej1972
                      Sergej1972 21 November 2019 22: 50
                      +3
                      You would first study the national composition of the population of most republics of the Russian Federation. Mordovia was mentioned, and in it Russians are almost two-thirds of the population, and Erzi and Moksha combined, only a third. And in Bashkiria, the Bashkirs are only 30% (according to other sources, one quarter).
                      Further. A federal device does not imply the right to enter the state. I consider the federation in Russia, in its modern borders, artificial and far-fetched, but it’s also not worth talking about a federal device as such.
                      1. joker
                        joker 22 November 2019 08: 04
                        +2
                        Union unbreakable republics of free rallied
                        FOR AGE !!!
                        Great Russia
                        From the anthem of the USSR.
                        The key concept FOR AGE. To clarify at least 300 years, to comply with the installation.
                        The USSR lasted less than 80 years.
                        Doesn't imply exit right? Oh oh It's only the beginning !
                      2. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 22 November 2019 12: 59
                        0
                        I am talking about federation as such. The USSR was a de jure hybrid of a federation and a confederation, and a de facto supercentralized state.
                      3. demo
                        demo 22 November 2019 17: 15
                        +4
                        And what should I study the national composition?
                        You read this, and do not jerk sharply.
                        Bashkortostan is a subject of the Russian Federation. According to the Constitution, the republic is a democratic legal state within the Russian Federation
                        According to the Constitution of the Republic, and not according to the Constitution of the Russian Federation.
                        Catch the difference?
                        If not, I will continue.
                        To expand your horizons.
                        Flag
                        Flag of Bashkortostan
                        The national flag of Bashkortostan was approved on February 25 1992 of the year.

                        Coat of arms
                        Coat of arms of Bashkortostan
                        The state emblem of Bashkortostan was adopted on October 12 1993 of the year.

                        Anthem
                        Anthem of Bashkortostan
                        The anthem of Bashkortostan was approved on October 12 1993 of the year.

                        Constitution
                        Constitution of the Republic of Bashkortostan
                        The Constitution is the basic law of Bashkortostan. Adopted on December 24 1993 of the year.

                        Constitutional Court of the Republic of Bashkortostan
                        Main article: Constitutional Court of the Republic of Bashkortostan
                        The Constitutional Court of the Republic of Bashkortostan is a judicial body of constitutional review, independently and independently exercising judicial power through constitutional proceedings.

                        Head of the Republic
                        Head of the Republic of Bashkortostan

                        Radiy Faritovich Khabirov, Acting Head of the Republic of Bashkortostan
                        The head of the subject is the head of the Republic of Bashkortostan, elected by popular vote. Until January 1 2015, the post was called President [49]. The interim head of the Republic of Bashkortostan (from October 11 to October 2018) - Radiy Faritovich Khabirov. The first president of Bashkortostan is Murtaza Gubaidullovich Rakhimov.

                        State Assembly - Kurultay of the Republic of Bashkortostan
                        Main article: State Assembly - Kurultai of the Republic of Bashkortostan
                        State Assembly - Kurultai of the Republic of Bashkortostan - the legislative body (parliament) of Bashkortostan, consisting of 110 deputies. Elected by universal suffrage.

                        The Chairman of the State Assembly - Kurultai of the Republic of Bashkortostan is Konstantin Tolkachev.
                        Government
                        Government of the Republic of Bashkortostan
                        The supreme executive authority is the Government of the Republic of Bashkortostan. The head of government is the chairman of the Government of the Republic of Bashkortostan, appointed by the head of the republic with the approval of the State Assembly - the Kurultay of the Republic of Bashkortostan.

                        Plenipotentiary Representation of the Republic of Bashkortostan under the President of the Russian Federation
                        Plenipotentiary Representation of the Republic of Bashkortostan under the President of the Russian Federation
                        The Plenipotentiary Representation of the Republic of Bashkortostan under the President of the Russian Federation is the state body of Bashkortostan, which is part of the executive branch of the region and operates under the leadership of the Government of the Republic of Bashkortostan.

                        Well, what else do you need to realize a simple truth. The republic voluntarily became part of the Russian Federation, having by this time all the attributes of the state.
                        And it can come out just as freely, using the primacy of its laws over Russian ones.
                        No other result follows.
                    2. petrakimov
                      petrakimov 22 November 2019 18: 26
                      +1
                      Specifically for the Republic of Sakha. We have about a million inhabitants. Of these, approximately 400 thousand are Sakha. They mainly live in rural areas on an area of ​​3 million square meters. km Those. no population density. In the villages of 500-1200 people. In cities, the population is mostly Russian. And in the cities that are quite strategically significant (Mirny, Aldan, Neryungri, Tiksi, Lensk) - the absolute predominance of Russians. In less significant cities (Khandyga, Olekminsk, Srednekolymsk, Pokrovsk) Russians prevail. In Yakutsk, out of 400 thousand people, Sakha is a little over 100 thousand. For war, we need weapons, the ability to maneuver forces (logistics) and time. Not a single warehouse of armaments and ammunition in the republic is present. There are two (!) Tanks: the T-34-85 monument in Yakutsk, without an engine and, it seems, the T-55 in Mirny. So there’s nothing to fight. In the hands of the population a lot of weapons, hunting. But there is little ammunition: usually a block of shots at home, a dozen bullets, and rifled rounds of not more than 20-30 pieces. So, your fears about the revolt of the Sakha people are groundless. Of course, if you, like fools, carry weapons with echelons as you did in Chechnya, then of course it will fire. Logistics is very vulnerable: winter roads. There are no roads in summer. There are few bridges across the rivers. The main railway line in the event of war will be under the complete control of pro-Russian forces (Aldan, Neryungri, along which the main path goes - populated by Russians). Settlements are distant from each other, which facilitates the task of blocking villages where Sakha are concentrated. In villages there will be a maximum of 50-60 armed people ready to fight. But without ammunition and with shotguns basically. Not a single grenade launcher and hand grenades. One armored personnel carrier and a unit of trained soldiers will smash the village along a log and its self-defense. Now about the time: if the war drags on for more than 4-5 months of the summer-autumn period, destroyed houses will not give a chance for the population to survive. The lack of winter food production opportunities in the forest for a large detachment will force the rebels to simply die from hunger and frost. Or captured. So what danger of war in the Republic of Sakha can we talk seriously? Moscow at one time proposed to restore the borders of the republic within the Yakutsk Territory (XVII century): Yakutia + Chukotka + Magadan + Primorye + now the north of the Krasnoyarsk Territory. We have refused. And they remained part of the Russian Federation. We had a real chance to get out of the Russian Federation after receiving vast territories, but this did not happen.
                  2. Slavutich
                    Slavutich 21 November 2019 20: 44
                    +1
                    And this ORDER of the West was fulfilled by Lenin and Trotsky!

                    Like this
                  3. DNS-a42
                    DNS-a42 21 November 2019 20: 45
                    +8
                    So the Bolsheviks are now English spies, and for 30 years they have been saying that they are German. Security manuals again outdated.

                    Illiterate people do not understand that the presence / absence of the right to secede from the state does not affect the presence / absence of separatism. Sovereignty is always gained by force, and not by legal tricks.
                    1. Tatyana
                      Tatyana 21 November 2019 22: 06
                      0
                      Quote: DNS-a42
                      Illiterate people do not understand that the presence / absence of the right to secede from the state does not affect the presence / absence of separatism.

                      If not, then why did the Bolsheviks need to administratively divide the territory of Russia along the ethnic lines of the so-called. "titular" nationality and officially grant them statehood?
                      You contradict yourself.
                      1. DNS-a42
                        DNS-a42 22 November 2019 07: 02
                        +10
                        A new era - new principles of state structure. Under the interim government, Ukraine, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, and our other future republics have become independent territories in which national self-consciousness has fully manifested itself. In such circumstances, driving everyone under unitary Russia would mean countless armed conflicts.

                        The formula of the Bolsheviks is unity on a class basis - proletarian internationalism, when all these political nations are united:
                        1) the single economy; 2) Culture; 3) Internationalism. These are the pillars of a socialist association.
                        Those. not the denial of these entities, but their inclusion in the new subjectivity - the Soviet people. As a result of the restoration of capitalism, these pillars of Soviet statehood were allowed, respectively, and unity was destroyed.

                        And if you are so interested in legal details, then even the collapse of the USSR was carried out contrary to the legal exit procedure (all republics should have approved the exit). This once again proves that if someone wants to secede, then this is not a legal but a matter of factual possibility. It is necessary to create conditions for unity so that no one wants to leave you, and not tell you: "now we will ban the right to exit, and then the problem of separatism will disappear." Kindergarten.
                      2. Tatyana
                        Tatyana 22 November 2019 14: 13
                        +1
                        You are definitely not Russian! The chauvinism of a foreigner is rushing among you!
                        You point blank thoughts of Lenin do not understand! It is written from him:
                        "" ...protect Russian foreigners from the invasion of that truly Russian man, a Great Russian chauvinist, in fact, a scoundrel and a rapist, which is a typical Russian bureaucrat. There is no doubt that an insignificant percentage of Soviet and Soviet workers will sink in this sea of ​​chauvinistic Great Russian trash, like a fly in milk ... (And on the basis of this statement, Lenin expelled all Russians from government in the government!) and the second question is whether we have taken with sufficient care measures to really to protect the aliens from the true Russian landlord?
                        ... Here an important fundamental question arises: how to understand internationalism? I already wrote in my works on the national question that the abstract statement of the question of nationalism in general is worthless. It is necessary to distinguish between the nationalism of the oppressed nation and the nationalism of the oppressed nation, the nationalism of a large nation and the nationalism of a small nation. In relation to the second nationalism, almost always in historical practice, we, the nationals of a large nation, find ourselves guilty of an endless amount of violence ...
                        therefore internationalism on the part of the oppressing or the so-called “great” nation (although great only by its violence, great only as great as the Sordimord) should consist not only in observing the formal equality of nations, but also in such inequality that would compensate the oppressing nation, nation is large, the inequality that develops in life actually ...
                        That is why in this case it is better to oversalt in the direction of compliance and softness towards national minorities than to undersalt. [/ b] "V. I. Lenin.

                        What international equality of the proletarians in Russia is Lenin talking about ?! He has no international equality of the proletarians in Russia! Lenin politically placed all the foreign proletarians over the Russian proletarians! Allowed genocide against the Russians! He has Russian proletarians — these are second-class people!

                        Besides. During the administrative-territorial division of Russia, Lenin gave the foreigners the primordially Russian lands and the Russians themselves to serve them! It is ridiculous to read about the administrative-national "titular" formations, in which 90% of the population were Russians!
                        No one defended the Russians in the national republics. First, they destroyed the Russian bourgeoisie, and then the Russian workers! Where is your proletarian unity on the basis of class? He was not on the scent under Lenin!
                        Enough reading the communist "guss" nonsense about the allegedly proletarian Russian revolution! It was primarily a nationalist coup d'etat. Thanks to Lenin and Trotsky, Russia has turned from a state of the historically primordial Russian people into a state of NATIONAL MINORITIES with the Jewish party elite at the head.
                      3. DNS-a42
                        DNS-a42 22 November 2019 20: 16
                        0
                        Again. The quotation refers to the royal bureaucracy, to the royal officials. The rest is your imagination.

                        and on the basis of this statement, Lenin expelled all Russians from governing the country in government!

                        You can certainly confirm such a loud statement with statistics, right?

                        Allowed genocide against the Russians! He has Russian proletarians — these are second-class people!

                        Reminds of the texts of Nazi propaganda: "Jews seized power, join the Wehrmacht, help liberate the Russian people."

                        There is no sense in answering further "theses". I see that you have some kind of personal grudge against the Jews. Reasonable arguments are powerless here.
                    2. Alekcandr Sokolenko
                      Alekcandr Sokolenko 20 December 2019 07: 50
                      0
                      Thanks to the Author for common sense (and where do such things come from?) - and did the sho-provinces help the empire? -And the other sho-empires are also Bolsheviks? -And the chapel-they?
                  4. Alekcandr Sokolenko
                    Alekcandr Sokolenko 20 December 2019 07: 48
                    0
                    When did you manage? -Lenin turned the planet upside down in a matter of years (one or two), was poorly educated and did not know that this was impossible, even Archimedes forbade it (the elder), and his modern critics (below the freebies of his boots-pygmies and microns) , did they at least turn over a bunch of manure? Trotsky was killed, and Stalin took his place (there are no words about him here), and Stalin doesn't care about the revolution, give him power and "friendship" according to his interest, so he built a zoo, he had enough, but what does socialism have to do with it? Xenophobia is bad form, this is (by default) the statement that all Jews are geniuses, and all gussies are, but even Jews do not agree with this ..
                2. DNS-a42
                  DNS-a42 21 November 2019 20: 59
                  +9
                  The internationalists Lenin and Stalin were much more insightful than the bourgeois lovers of the national Russian / Ukrainian / Georgian and other worlds. It was the anti-Soviet who smashed the USSR into national apartments and made a raw materials appendage from Russia, and the Russian people an endangered people. But you still have not grown to understand Lenin, you are bogged down in a bourgeois swamp.
                  1. Tatyana
                    Tatyana 21 November 2019 21: 48
                    +7
                    Quote: DNS-a42
                    you still haven’t grown up to understand Lenin,
                    You yourself wander in the darkness, if you are really Russian. Do not ascribe to Russophobe Lenin what the true internationalist and Soviet statesman Stalin did for the country!

                    1. Stalin abandoned the Leninist world revolution and decided to build socialism in a single country.
                    2. Moreover, Stalin ceased to finance the proletarian International, Zionist in composition and content.
                    3. Lenin in his 1922 work of the year “On the issue of nationalities or“ autonomy ”” extremely sharply criticized Stalin’s allegedly “great-power” plan for “autonomy” (that is, the inclusion of the former national outskirts of the Russian Empire in the RSFSR as autonomous republics instead of a project USSR),
                    4. Lenin also in the same article or letter written in connection with the formation of the USSR and devoted to the problem of relations between the peoples of the Soviet country, in particular, He explained his WILD understanding of the principles of proletarian internationalism in the matter of EXCLUSION of Russians from work in the organs of Soviet power.
                    These are:
                    "...protect Russian foreigners from the invasion of that truly Russian man, a Great Russian chauvinist, in fact, a scoundrel and a rapistwhat a typical Russian bureaucrat is. No doubt that an insignificant percentage of Soviet and Soviet workers will drown in this sea of ​​chauvinistic Great Russian trash, like a fly in milk ... and the second question, have we taken with sufficient care measures to really protect the aliens from the true Russian Sordimord?
                    ... Here an important fundamental question arises: how to understand internationalism? I already wrote in my works on the national question that the abstract statement of the question of nationalism in general is worthless. It is necessary to distinguish between the nationalism of the oppressed nation and the nationalism of the oppressed nation, the nationalism of a large nation and the nationalism of a small nation. In relation to the second nationalism, almost always in historical practice, we, the nationals of a large nation, find ourselves guilty of an endless amount of violence ...
                    therefore internationalism from depressing or so-called A “great” nation (although great only by its violence, great only as great as the leader) should consist not only in the observance of the formal equality of nations, but also in such inequality that would compensate the oppressing, large nation for the inequality that actually takes shape in life ...
                    That is why in this case it is better to salt in the direction of pliability and softness to national minorities than undersalt. [/ b] "V. I. Lenin.

                    Is there a difference between Lenin and Stalin? Yes, yes what!
                    Lenin under the guise of fighting the Russian bureaucratic apparatus, he went over to the entire Russian people in practice, he eliminated ethnic Russians in general from ruling the Soviet country.
                    And Russia, from the state of the historically primordial Russian people, which has taken other peoples under its protection and patronage, as a result of the practical implementation of Lenin's national policy, has turned into a state of NATIONAL MINORITIES! And the Russian people are second-class people, donated by the local petty-bourgeois and feudal national chauvinists for colonial use.!
                    1. DNS-a42
                      DNS-a42 22 November 2019 08: 02
                      +6
                      “You yourself wander in darkness, if you are really Russian.”

                      And if I were a Chinese, then what? Would my words have less weight?

                      1. No, I did not refuse. The idea of ​​socialism in a single country is the idea of ​​Lenin, which Stalin consistently upheld. Moreover, this idea does not contradict the world revolution, but on the contrary, is part of it.
                      2. The Comintern was closed in 1943. The dissolution was a demand of the Allies for the opening of a second front. After the war, Cominform was opened.
                      3. In those conditions, Lenin was right. And Stalin agreed with this.
                      4. So the question concerns only the tsarist bureaucracy, and not the Russians specifically.
                      The difference between the chauvinism of large nations and the chauvinism of small nations can be clearly illustrated by modern examples:
                      1) The USA is an example of great-power chauvinism: "We are an exceptional people, America is always right."
                      2) Ukraine - an example of chauvinism of small nations: "Glory to Ukraine, beat Muscovite."

                      It’s obvious to a person familiar with Marxism that you didn’t study Stalin and Lenin, but only learned to juggle quotes, not understanding their meaning and context. Contrasting Stalin and Lenin, you act strictly according to the precepts of perestroika. Only then did Lenin beat Stalin, and modern anti-Soviet do the opposite.

                      “In practice, he eliminated ethnic Russians in general from ruling the Soviet country.”
                      Composition of the first Soviet government: Eight Russians. Three Ukrainians. One Georgian, One Pole. One Jew.
                      The ethnic composition of the government soars only the Nazis and other cavemen, it is obvious to a normal person: they are judged by deeds, and not by the size of the skull and the shape of the eyes. Let me remind you that the Pole Dzerzhinsky did much more for the Russian people than the Russian Yeltsin.

                      And the Russian people are second-class people, donated by the local petty-bourgeois and feudal national chauvinists for colonial use.!

                      My ancestors, who lived all their lives in Soviet Russia, never felt themselves second-rate. And the Russian people under the Soviet regime only multiplied and developed. But now, when lovers of the "primordially Russian people" rule over us, for some reason it is shrinking and degrading.
                      1. Tatyana
                        Tatyana 22 November 2019 22: 15
                        0
                        Everything is clear with you! The communist bureaucracy, which has ruined the country, does not want to admit its guilt and its mistakes!
                        Quote: DNS-a42
                        Ukraine is an example of the chauvinism of small nations: "Glory to Ukraine, beat Muscovite."
                        This time bomb is mine, as well as in other Soviet nat. who laid the republics? !! Who laid down the war in Chechnya of the 1995 year and the 1998 year? The Baysky branch of the Asian republics with the bloodthirsty expulsion of Russian from them who laid ?!
                        And who now rules the country ?! The same pro-Western Social Democrats!
                        And you are not a real communist, but a pro-Western social democrat and Russophobe!
                      2. Tatyana
                        Tatyana 22 November 2019 23: 29
                        -1
                        Quote: DNS-a42
                        My ancestors, who lived all their lives in Soviet Russia, never felt second-rate. And the Russian people under Soviet rule only multiplied and developed. And now, when lovers of the "primordially Russian people" rule, for some reason, it shrinks and degrades.

                        Don't you notice contradictions in your national plan? You are our demagogue!
                      3. Alekcandr Sokolenko
                        Alekcandr Sokolenko 21 December 2019 17: 02
                        0
                        The bourgeoisie does not have a homeland, its homeland is access to resources and their accumulation, this gives power, fame, influence, expansion to foreign territories. Patriotism - for her to speculate on the emotions of the brainless crowd, which is not only instigated by xenophobia., But also fed by cookies, drugs. - And Bes limit (business robbery).
                      4. Alekcandr Sokolenko
                        Alekcandr Sokolenko 21 December 2019 17: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        Quote: DNS-a42
                        My ancestors, who lived all their lives in Soviet Russia, never felt second-rate. And the Russian people under Soviet rule only multiplied and developed. And now, when lovers of the "primordially Russian people" rule, for some reason, it shrinks and degrades.



                        - Do you notice contradictions in your national plan? You are our demagogue!

                        So you not only offend me? -We look higher .... a hooligan.
                      5. Tatyana
                        Tatyana 22 November 2019 23: 56
                        0
                        Quote: DNS-a42
                        But you still have not grown to understand Lenin, you are bogged down in a bourgeois swamp.
                        It’s you, in sheep’s clothing, that you yourself have come out of the bourgeois swamp and continue to uphold it!
                        This is a lecture on history. Pay attention to the role of Jacob Sverdlov!

                        Lek. 53 Formation of Soviet statehood (October 1917 - July 1918).

                        Lek. 54 Socio-economic policy of the Soviet state in October 1917 - 1918
                      6. 16329
                        16329 23 November 2019 00: 07
                        +3
                        Russians in the USSR were brought to such a state that I could not organize any communities to defend my own interests even in places of compact residence in the former republics, at the time of the collapse of the USSR, there were about 40% of the Russian-speaking population in Estonia, the northeast was completely Russian (industrial centers) Well, where is Russian autonomy, the second state language, etc.
                      7. Alekcandr Sokolenko
                        Alekcandr Sokolenko 21 December 2019 17: 25
                        0
                        It is obvious to a person familiar with Marxism that you did not study Stalin and Lenin, but learned only to juggle quotations without understanding their meaning and context. By opposing Stalin and Lenin, you are acting strictly according to the precepts of perestroika. Only then did Lenin beat Stalin, and modern anti-Sovietists do the opposite.

                        - I agree, but Zheglov said that let the Synod analyze the immorality of the priest, and we must provide him with legal protection as a citizen. I don't see any connections between Lenin and Stalin, and what kind of Stalin-Lenin is today? -Is Lenin-Mausoleum? (Relics) -is Lenin "interpreter of sacred texts?" Is Lenin the Cerberus of the Inquisition? -And what would he be worth if he was a dogmatist, and Stalin is not even a dogmatist, he is a bureaucratic transformer (nothing human) - the rationality of instinct, hence it is from here that his triumph is the soullessness of the bureaucratic machine that devoured him, at the peak of power and glory. agronomist in boots) -A thistle of Russian history, or Mekhlis, or Voroshilov, it is worth looking at the Frames (left after the cleansing by the ball, the Russian taiga, turned by the iron lumberjack into an English golf course, where the world's gangsters still roll their balls into our pockets ) -Lenin did not see enemies, and Stalin suddenly regained his sight! - "aggravation to measure and without measure ...?" Maybe he could not control them, this is another question (caliber), they despised him, and he took revenge on them and removed the potential threat, and he did not look among the "talkative talkers. "and this is jealousy. If there is no way to rise above the people by the power of genius and labor, the people must be lowered on their heads, and if the pygmy is still put on crutches of formal power and is a Giant, then Lavrenty will slam a clapperboard" so there is no cockroach, that's no - Velikan ".
                    2. Alekcandr Sokolenko
                      Alekcandr Sokolenko 20 December 2019 08: 19
                      -1
                      "1. Stalin abandoned the Leninist world revolution and decided to build socialism in a single country."? ------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ------------- Yeah, taken by the throat. Stalin himself was the brightest of all and showed Lenin's righteousness about Russian derzhimordism (in vain with a Russian accent, it will be used against him, you can’t substitute it - bureaucracy is not about nationality) - and it’s necessary to expose the executioner of peoples (transformer of bureaucracy) -Russian nationalist ?! - to get burned not to get up, what a bold interpretation .. And why shouldn't Stalin, a parasite and a provocateur, be honest (like Napoleon): Marx, Lenin - in a cube, and I am a Russian patriot and a New Manarch and Emperor? -therefore all internationalists- you, too, are Fools, do not betray your national bourgeois bandits, they are also patriots, do not play for the USSR, but play against! -Why? -or You do not respect us, do you consider suckers? -When even Zelensky is not a sucker?

                      --------------
                      1. Tatyana
                        Tatyana 20 December 2019 11: 10
                        0
                        Quote: Alekcandr Sokolenko
                        "1. Stalin abandoned the Leninist world revolution and decided to build socialism in a single country."? ------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ------------- Yeah, taken by the throat. Stalin himself was the brightest of all and showed Lenin's righteousness about Russian derzhimordism (in vain with a Russian accent, this will be used against him, you cannot substitute - the bureaucracy is not about nationality) - and this must be the executioner of peoples (transformer of bureaucracy) - a Russian nationalist ?! - to get burned not to get up, what a bold interpretation .. And why shouldn't Stalin, a parasite and a provocateur, not be honest (like Napoleon): Marx, Lenin - in a cube, and I am a Russian patriot and a New Manarch and Emperor? you are fools too,do not betray your national bourgeois gangsters, they are also patriots, do not play for the USSR, but play against! -Why? -or do you, dear, do not respect us, consider suckers? -When even Zelensky is not a sucker?
                        I went to your profile and read all your messy comments.
                        I understand that you are from Ukraine. So?
                      2. Alekcandr Sokolenko
                        Alekcandr Sokolenko 20 December 2019 15: 00
                        0
                        No, I'm from the USSR, I don't know any Ukraine, what's the point of creating a republic for idiots with a national flavor, if there is no one to put on the throne in Moscow? - the audience is of the same kind everywhere, and I even guess where she comes from, we don't need tsars (I guess I'm left , I have class habits, although I was not invited to the party, they knew I would not go, I really love clean hands). Yes, and this is "chaotic", is this rudeness or principled style in a conversation with a person? -Do not waste time and ink, but correctly state counterpoints and versions, I may not like other people's opinions, but I am happy that they exist. Thank you for answering, otherwise I was already thinking, that's it, cemetery. I am in a frenzy: "are you from Ukraine?" - and you, excuse me, are a doctor for national diseases? -No, from Honduras ...., can't you see from the comments? - I don't ask your address, as if only Americans live in Ukraine ... I invite you to Proza Ru, where you can live, although the audience is interesting too.
                      3. Alekcandr Sokolenko
                        Alekcandr Sokolenko 20 December 2019 15: 18
                        +1
                        Sorry for the mistakes, I can’t see with my left eye at all, half with my right eye, and the light in the room is bad, I don’t remember the extension cord in time (buy it) to put the lamp in, so I click at random in the dark ..
                      4. Tatyana
                        Tatyana 20 December 2019 15: 22
                        +1
                        Quote: Alekcandr Sokolenko
                        Thank you for answering, otherwise I already thought, that's it, the cemetery.

                        It's just that the article is already a month old. It has already been zealously commented on and discussed by all the participants from all sides, and everyone is now "sitting" on unread material.
                        Moreover, this page is loaded with comments so that loading for an answer is extremely slow, so there may not be any answers.

                        As for the "confusion" of your comments, I just notice a certain internal contradiction in them and a hostile emotional intolerance to other people's comments. Hence my impression that you are from Ukraine.

                        So about your "confusion" - it's just a statement of my perception of the content and the number of your comments on this article and nothing more. Well, how else can we call it a sensible polemic? So it's okay. Do not worry!
                      5. Alekcandr Sokolenko
                        Alekcandr Sokolenko 21 December 2019 16: 55
                        +1
                        And I didn’t think, I think that Theme is not old and not aging, the other two are standing, this is not about fashion.
                  2. Alekcandr Sokolenko
                    Alekcandr Sokolenko 20 December 2019 07: 56
                    0
                    And here we differ in our assessments: is Stalin an internationalist? -Mama dear, but he killed more communists than all Hitlers put together.To test by experiment: change Lenin to Stalin in History and see what you get? -What revolution, which Comintern? USSR, what kind of party affiliation? -It is to make the Mafia out of the wreckage of the murdered Leninist party, where with good (parasite and provocateur) -found the builder of the "sacred maybutny" in the Dark Kingdom of the Bukhara Emirate.
                3. shura7782
                  shura7782 22 November 2019 14: 34
                  +1
                  Stalin just got his bearings on time and realized how it would end.

                  Wang. Do I understand you correctly that he held the national-territorial situation with iron hands and that's it? Experience has shown that this success is temporary. Maybe "Divide and Conquer" would be better for us today. By the word “divide” I mean the division of the territory into Guberni in such a way that separation on the basis of nationality and territory would be practically impossible. If this is not done, then the question of the integrity of the state will always arise.
                  1. demo
                    demo 22 November 2019 17: 25
                    +3
                    That's right, Alexander.
                    Stalin, at the peak of his power and the inviolability of power, could not even imagine any separatist creeps of our national territories.
                    The separatism of the Crimean Tatars, Chechens, Ingush, Karachays cost them very dearly.
                    Deportation.

                    And he did not even think of dealing with such issues.
                    Even thoughts of someone of a similar nature could be fatal.

                    But he could not refuse territorial division on a national basis. Due to the fact that Lenin's wording lay at the foundation of the state system of the USSR.
                    Cancel the name of the USSR and name the state differently, and remove from the essence a voluntary association / voluntary separation - everything could be different.
                    1. shura7782
                      shura7782 22 November 2019 18: 43
                      +2
                      Quote: demo
                      - everything could be different.

                      VAN. Yes it could be! Pay attention to Europe. It would seem successful, well-fed states (Spain, Germany, etc.). They find reasons not only to raise this issue, but also to act. Those. provides a vivid example, a guide to action. Also, any criticism towards GDP is perceived by some as a direct encroachment on the integrity of the country. Relying only on the personality of the leader ..... that he will resolve everything ...? Why is not a bitter lesson learned from the collapse of the USSR? It doesn’t matter, in an economically poor or rich country, this question may arise if there is no wise division into the Governorates now.
              3. vladimirZ
                vladimirZ 21 November 2019 18: 10
                +11
                Those. to search for the reasons for this collapse of the USSR it is necessary in the historical plan much deeper. - Tatyana

                Did you pay attention, Tatyana, to Manturov's words about the mechanism of the collapse of the socialist state, which was laid back in Khrushchev's times, including by Andropov, according to the theory of "convergence", pushed not only by Andropov, but also by other figures in the Central Committee of the CPSU, through various structures, consultants of the Central Committee, who, under the good slogans of studying capitalist countries, for example, the Institute of the USA and Canada, secretly and secretly from the party, were preparing the future surrender of the state to the West, the future collapse of the USSR.
                And by the way, Manturov said an interesting thing, that this mechanism of action, the destruction of the USSR has not yet been revealed, the key names are unknown, which long before Gorbachev, Yeltsin brought him into operation, and those who are now heading and using this mechanism for the destruction of Russia are unknown. ... And the fact that such a mechanism for the destruction of the country exists is evident from the "development" of the country, the "reforms" carried out in it.
                1. vladimirZ
                  vladimirZ 21 November 2019 18: 49
                  +6
                  Sorry, he incorrectly wrote the name of the former employee of the Central Committee of the CPSU and diplomat Vyacheslav Matuzov.
                2. demo
                  demo 21 November 2019 19: 21
                  +5
                  And by the way, Manturov said an interesting thing is that this mechanism of action, the destruction of the USSR has not yet been revealed, the key names are unknown that long before Gorbachev, Yeltsin brought him to work, and those who are now leading and using this mechanism to destroy Russia .

                  And what is there to open?
                  Name, position, known.
                  Dates of trips to the USA, to Western Europe, are known.
                  Travel reports are in the KGB archive.
                  This task, when accessing materials, is solved by a novice analyst one-two-three.
                  1. vladimirZ
                    vladimirZ 22 November 2019 07: 32
                    +5
                    This task, when accessing the materials, is solved by a novice analyst one-two-three. - demo (van)

                    But it does not dare. And it is not being resolved because the people who are in charge of this "collapse mechanism" are in power in Russia. And no KGB-FSB archives will help. It still exists and poses a threat to the integrity of Russia.
                    And note, no one writes or talks about this "mechanism of destruction" as a system that has existed for a long time and is passing from one socialist social system to a capitalist one. For the first time, Vyacheslav Matuzov spoke about this "mechanism" as a single system to a wide audience.
                    1. demo
                      demo 22 November 2019 12: 41
                      +2
                      But, it is not strange, speaking of such a deeply conspiracy system, introducing with his speeches a certain discomfort to those in power, he receives congratulations on his birthday both from Putin, and from Lavrov and others.
                      It worries me.
                3. 16329
                  16329 23 November 2019 00: 13
                  0
                  Or maybe they’ll now use the mechanism of destruction of the United States, while something like everything goes to this,
                  and who are these people who organize Putin’s support from certain circles of the European elite, helps strengthen ties with China, etc.
              4. Arthur 85
                Arthur 85 21 November 2019 22: 08
                -8
                It is necessary to look for the reasons for the collapse of the USSR in that it contrasted itself with all basic human instincts. Dot.
                Well, the truth is, Puritanism was why, for example? Or a war with the church? Well, we would compromise ... Ah ... request
                It is possible to prove with foam at the mouth how wonderful a socialist society is, but one (a donkey turned into a dummy by Dunno) a cunning citizen will destroy the whole utopia on his mind.
                Christianity has been trying for 2000 years, and why? But socialism is like primitive Christianity, but instead of God, is science.
                1. KERMET
                  KERMET 22 November 2019 12: 29
                  +4
                  Quote: Arthur 85
                  Or a war with the church? Well, we would compromise ... Ah ...

                  If the church at that time was engaged in what it was created for, and not pursued an aggressive policy against the young government, there would be no "war" against it
                  1. Arthur 85
                    Arthur 85 22 November 2019 18: 01
                    -1
                    If everyone in the world did what they should and why they created, Skynet would weep bitterly for inferiority in the corner, communism would initially be inherent in humanity, and the giant Empire of Man would have dominated the galaxy for a long time, with good, but unyielding will, leading all sorts of shortcomings ... Subject to the emotions and self-love of civilization, go ahead. And since we ourselves are susceptible, well, it’s worth looking for compromises within ourselves.
                  2. 16329
                    16329 23 November 2019 00: 17
                    0
                    “Young power” purposefully destroyed churches and exterminated priests, and the moral principles of early Soviet power were not much different from modern liberals
                2. demo
                  demo 22 November 2019 12: 47
                  +3
                  If by basic principles we mean money-grubbing, oppression, racial hostility, Nazism and fascism, and the like, then it seems that this is not bad?
                  If we take into account who, how much and with what just did not fight, and how much human blood was spilled, then the state proclaimed social equality, rejection of one person’s oppression by another, nipped the desire to annihilate entire nations at the root - is this not the peak of human relations?
                  I will not continue.
                  I think that you will think up the rest.
                  1. Arthur 85
                    Arthur 85 22 November 2019 18: 16
                    -4
                    Well, why bring it to the point of absurdity? Money-grubbing - yes. What do you think was NEP? Well, the billion-year attitude: "eat now, tomorrow will not be."
                    Sexual instinct. Well, why prohibit almost all references to him? You can’t feed (which, of course, the absurdity is in the most advanced - I don’t jerk it, it’s really advanced, it’s only fools - the economy), then give me at least rubbing ... Well, you understand.
                    Religion. Well, here we are, reasonable. We need a moral backup. From the fact that we declared ourselves the crown of nature, nothing has changed. Many still need the fear of hell so as not to behave like a ge ...
                    I will not continue either. I myself am a communist (not a member of the party). Now, if a thousand of my clones lived on an island in the Pacific Ocean, we would have built communism. But this is not for everyone. People love living too much. It’s full and sweet. And do nothing with it.
                    1. demo
                      demo 22 November 2019 20: 19
                      +4
                      You, in a comment immediately, voluntarily or involuntarily, have raised so many global issues of the world order, both of a person and of society, that you don’t know where to start answering ??????
                      6 man has millions of dollars. Its level of consumption is limited to this amount.
                      The second 60. The third 600. And the fourth 6 billion.
                      Obviously, the latter, as you do not try, will not be able to consume something different from everyone else. There is no such thing in nature.
                      Why is there such a huge accumulation?
                      A lot of factors. But there is one decisive. Fear. Fear of losing. And then the race against time begins. Who will win. But the finale is known! Time will win. So why is this all? Stupidity. Paranoia. Madness.
                      If the availability of money could eat, drink, and snuggle in proportion to the ratio of the maximum to the minimum, then yes!
                      But one mouth, one stomach, one member!

                      Bans.
                      As soon as a person transfers from the category of ordinary to the category of wealthy, the transformation (with rare exceptions) of consciousness begins.
                      And when he passes from the category of wealthy to the category of wealthy, the transformation is not only accelerated, but also enhanced.
                      The human world becomes self-absorbed.
                      "I" dominates.
                      Examples - mass.
                      Major boys and girls on the coolest cars arrange races. Spit on the opinions of others. Ignore the laws.
                      What happened to them? Nothing happened. They were already born that way. And no one called them "not to stick out" and live like everyone else.
                      Not for this their parents "earned money by the sweat of their brow"?

                      It's hard to talk about sexual instinct.
                      He seems to be alone, but manifests itself in different ways.
                      But if the sexual instinct is not taken under tight control, then over time it will transform into sexual licentiousness, and there, to a sexual maniac, one step. hi
                      The desire to choose a girlfriend for procreation is embedded in this instinct.
                      Only in women is he one, and in men is another.
                      A woman chooses a partner with a distant sight - the upbringing and provision of offspring. The man pursues the goal of leaving behind as many offspring as possible, without burdening himself with responsibility for them.
                      The socialization of society forces a man to reconsider his attraction to the opposite sex in the direction of reducing extramarital affairs.
                      If Malakhov gives the floor to a minor fool from a remote village, which the entire male population of this village used to make out, and now the whole country with a bated breath finds out who the father of the child is, then besides disgust, I have a different feeling - hatred of those that treats us with such programs.
                      It is not possible to reformat me. But those who are 17-20 years old - these will not understand the secret intention of the producer.
                      And the intent is simple - everything is accessible to everyone.
                      And what in the end awaits us?
                      So I do not agree with your message about the ban. Everything is not as simple as it seems.
                      1. demo
                        demo 22 November 2019 20: 40
                        +3
                        Religion.
                        Very difficult question.
                        That I need it, I have no doubt about it.
                        But the fact that religion was made uncontrolled is very scary for me.
                        Religiosity is a form of mental disorder.
                        A person can believe in God (I believe), but at the same time not have a physical need to run to the Temple every day and pray from morning to night.
                        For in life there is a responsibility to the family, children, grandchildren.
                        The lion's share of the time is the process of making money.
                        But the fact that finding a way to earn money should not step over God's commandments and human commandments is what religion gives.
                        You can go to unload the car, or you can stand in the gateway, waiting for a passerby.
                        The income is the same, the method is different.

                        Honestly, we are the crown of nature. For a long time engaged in self-education, sometimes you get into such a jungle of natural science, in particular about the properties of the human body, that there is reverence for the forces that created and shaped all this.
                        But the fact that this work of art, without a derogatory form, behaves worse than any brainless cattle, this is annoying.
                        It’s the same as purchasing a super-heaped Ferrari and transporting liquid waste to a landfill on it. Bulk in the trunk.
                        An example - so-so, does not fully reflect the essence of what is happening, but nothing else has come to mind.

                        At the expense of fear of hell, here's what I say.
                        This is very personal.
                        Ten years ago my father died. He was for 80. And he died of cancer.
                        I was with him until the last day. And when his dips in consciousness became very deep, when he stopped practically moving, he once said a terrible phrase, emerging from oblivion - son, save me, I was in Hell.
                        It was said in such a low voice, but with such a force of penetration into my mind that I literally saw this Hell with my own eyes.
                        And it also affects a person’s worldview.
                        Fears haunt us from childhood.
                        Fear does not grow.
                        Fear of not winning the fight.
                        Girls don't like fear.
                        Fear of stepping for the first time into the open hatch of an airplane.
                        Fear of climbing a vertical wall in the mountains for the first time.
                        Fear for the children.
                        Fear for the family.
                        And so on and on.
                        Now all the fears are over.
                        All passed. Everything is tested. Everything is understood. There is not even a fear of death.
                        There is excitement for grandchildren.
                        And for what country they will live in.
                        Fear is a necessary human state of the psyche until a person decides in what way to overcome one or another obstacle.

                        But if the barrier is ethical laws?
                        Then only the irrational fear of unconditional punishment.

                        I complete this.
                      2. Arthur 85
                        Arthur 85 23 November 2019 07: 54
                        +1
                        Of course, many questions were raised: in one sentence I tried to answer the burning question: how did the Soviet Union collapse?
                        According to your arguments. You yourself answer to yourself: fear drives money-grubbing. First, starvation, then the fear that a stronger / richer one will come and take away from me ... Well, the love of power, which also stems from the fear of death. It seems to a person that the more power he has, the more reliable he is protected, and the easier it is for him to distribute his genetic material, since the race cannot be won over time.
                        And yes, there is no need to arrange any licentiousness at all, but for some reason everyone ran to watch a Western movie, and not because of his artistic merits, but because of half-naked Sophia Loren, or who was there. And they gradually envied the “West”: they can de, but not ours. What was the deep meaning of this?
                        About the properties of the body. Yes, indeed, when studying a cage, sometimes he’s taken aback: how complicated everything is there ... It seems that one dog’s cell is smarter than the dog as a whole, or even a different person, but ... Some proteins are synthesized, for example, in an inactive form, they must activate other proteins in several stages, but they are needed, for example, only then to enter into a chemical bond with the cell receptor, starting a certain process. It is unlikely that such a mechanism could be the fruit of rational activity. And a blind case - yes, perhaps ... In yeast, 2/3 of the DNA are “broken” genes - errors accumulated during evolution ... And the synapses? If it weren’t for this widespread device, we would have thought 10 times faster (and therefore would have lived 10 times longer according to the “internal account” of our time), and FOS would not have taken us)) And cancer? Have you seen at least one excavator sick with cancer or allergies?
                        In general, the only way for us to become “completed” is to transfer ourselves to a machine medium, but for this we will no longer have time. A rollback to capitalism means that we will finally destroy the Earth’s mineral resources, and we will go further and further - in the 19th, 18th, 17th centuries ... And never will any of our acquaintances be called Dar Veter, but “Mr. Baron” is easy. Sad, but apparently inevitable. The next reasonable species that comes after us, without the oil and coal destroyed by us, will be a little taut, but on the other hand, it can only spur them on ...
                        Yes, it also occurred to me. I would like to know how it turned out that the engineer at the plant, and generally a person with a higher education, received less than he drove to GAZ 66? Who is the genius who set such a tariff schedule? Of course, the embittered intelligentsia, as soon as the Union staggered, joyfully kicked him on the pages of the scum "Spark" and others like him ...
                        And one more instinct: the desire to "curry favor." If I’m the director of a factory, I don’t want to be an ascetic. I have to have a mansion and a Mercedes. They should envy me, dropping greedy saliva. And if this is not the case, I mutate into a bourgeois, and joyfully leave for the cooperative movement, to seize my plant.
                        So, could such a state mechanism be able to withstand? The answer is obvious.
              5. at84432384
                at84432384 22 November 2019 17: 21
                +2
                Shevardnadze, Shakhnazarov, Chernyaev, Gorbachev, Ligachev, Yakovlev, Burlatsky and a smaller figure-Adamovich, Afanasiev, Popov, Volkogonov, E. Yakovlev - are they also Jews? Reducing the defeat of the "red project" to a Jewish conspiracy (this has happened more than once in world history) is to treat cancer with smallpox vaccinations. Everything is much more complicated.
              6. vkfriendly
                vkfriendly 22 November 2019 17: 46
                0
                And what are the reasons to look for it? The revolution of 17 years is a purely Jewish project, then they were all in power and sat from the bottom up so they did not build a small Jewish quasi-state until Stalin took up them, then they all hastily changed their names to the Ivanovs, Sidorovs, Petrovs.
              7. Slon379
                Slon379 1 December 2019 22: 21
                0
                Already distorted from your typo, Manturov is still up ....
              8. Alekcandr Sokolenko
                Alekcandr Sokolenko 21 December 2019 10: 15
                0
                Quote: Tatiana
                So why did it happen on the national level that the USSR disintegrated into national "titular" administrative-territorial republics? To this Manturov does not give an answer.
                Those. to search for the reasons for this collapse of the USSR it is necessary in the historical plan much deeper.



                -Not "disintegrated, but destroyed, and de facto, not de jure, the USSR still exists and is still strengthened by the Referendum on the Union, which was started by those who left only wind and sometimes seaweed on the shelves so that the" correct "choice was unconditional ! -but there was an embarrassment, the game was not by the rules, the hungry and spiteful people told the traitors from the KGB and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, but it’s pasaran! I had a case, which, if not sticky, sew, but the people were ignored because he was betrayed by the security services and the army The state borders in the USSR were not administrative, so Crimea was easily "given", no one gave it to anyone, this is a lime tree, all affairs within the super-ethnos are administrative, not national-state. Why did the Asian republics not "betray" the USSR in the forest? - They were not invited? - Judas - Kravchuk, makes people laugh, they say, the creators of the USSR - three Slayans and the Transcaucasian (too, damn the creator was found), but Transcaucasia was not invited either, already illegal, there were no exit procedures, they cut it alive and hurried until the traitors of the Bad guys turned sour .The main thing here is not "collapse", but a hasty recognition of the murder of the USSR (with the creation of dragged) -West-riding on the Bad guys to heaven! - "God! Save America!" ----- but it's not over yet, it's just beginning.
              9. Alekcandr Sokolenko
                Alekcandr Sokolenko 21 December 2019 10: 32
                0
                "That is, it is necessary to search for the reasons for this collapse of the USSR in a historical sense much deeper."?


                -Yes, it’s so, it’s naive and even stupid to look for answers to philosophical questions in politics: you can draw a picture, society looks like an iron-concrete object (block) -armature-keeps centrifugal forces (influences) from breaking, and concrete keeps external aggression , together, the whole, but nothing is new under the Moon and nothing lasts forever: aggressions slowly but surely gnaw concrete and reinforcement (center) and the reinforcement is worth rusting (philistinism, stupidity, tribal structurality, external influences and temptations) - and the block begins to creep, crumble, concrete cannot work against ala, centrifugal forces, only for compression, external aggressions of the power plan, I clearly state? -no need to look for reasons in the Baye auls and Bandera caches, all the reasons in Moscow (behind the plinth) -just there is no one to pick
            2. Botanologist
              Botanologist 21 November 2019 20: 51
              -1
              Quote: McAr
              and these people could be counted on the fingers,


              what was this country that 20 dissidents ruined request
              1. Mcar
                Mcar 21 November 2019 21: 00
                +7
                Quote: Botanologist
                Quote: McAr
                and these people could be counted on the fingers,


                what was this country that 20 dissidents ruined request

                One scammer can cover thousands. Mavrodi, for example, managed to deceive millions.

                So you are surprised that a small number of scoundrels managed to deceive many. And these many have already voluntarily, without malicious intent, deluded, deceived the rest. Or was it necessary to protest against the slogan "More socialism!"

                Little termites destroy a huge house. Let's be surprised! What was such a house worth ?!

                A small cancer cell (one!), Which is barely visible through a microscope, can ultimately kill a large organism. Let's be surprised! What was this organism worth ?!
                1. Botanologist
                  Botanologist 21 November 2019 21: 56
                  -1
                  Quote: McAr
                  So that you are surprised that a small number of villains managed to deceive many.


                  Are you talking about the Central Committee of the CPSU?

                  I believe Shakhnazarov more that a healthy body of a country cannot be killed by one traitor (one cell). The system was rotten. Berkut24 rights.
                  1. Vit43
                    Vit43 22 November 2019 21: 42
                    +2
                    You can’t kill, but you can deceive.
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 22 November 2019 20: 46
                -4
                The USSR collapsed due to the fact that it pulled 120 world rogues at its own expense starting from the 60s - while it itself did not have anything from export, import was equal to export in foreign currency equivalent, it is clear that this could not continue for a long time and starting from the 80th year the country began to run out of money and the deficit started to increase, and in the end Gorbachev ran for foreign loans - and people were tired of all these promises about a bright communist future for decades, shortages at the household level and a gray life with the leveling who is to blame for the leadership The Communist Party since Khrushchev.
            3. 16329
              16329 23 November 2019 00: 01
              0
              Americans love to popularize simple solutions so that narrow-minded people believe in their genius and insight
            4. alex jkubovski
              alex jkubovski 23 November 2019 12: 55
              +1
              Bravo! you can’t say better.
        2. Berkut24
          Berkut24 21 November 2019 16: 27
          +2
          What is straight all? All 18 million?

          We can say that everything. Party bail, try to vote wrong. I graduated from a military school as a candidate member, six months later, already as a lieutenant I became a member of the party. That was in 1988. And in 1991, around January, my friend and I decided to quit the party. After writing the statement, the political department thought for a day, after which I was called to the police officers. 1 hour of conversation, then to the party meeting. When asked why we were going to leave, we honestly stated that the party was rotten and we see no reason to continue to vote for those decisions. which they let us down from above. The party meeting did not know what to do next, no one has come before us. They decided to give us a trial period of 1 year (?!). What we felt was not clear. Then I said that there is my statement and I demand to consider it on the merits. The meeting went to the smoking room, I have one more conversation with the Specialist. From the special officer to continue the meeting, I, like my friend, returned with a strict reprimand for non-compliance with safety regulations. Actually, the commander signed the order right at the party meeting and handed it over to the osobist, so that he would decide whether to give him a move or not. At the entrance to the hall, the political officer met me and said that I would stay forever with aging.
          In general, we left the party, then August happened, until which the political commissar spread rot on me for any reason.
          1. Mcar
            Mcar 21 November 2019 16: 46
            +3
            Quote: Berkut24
            Party bail, try to vote wrong.

            Probably the army system is different from the civilian. In the end, a good locksmith at any plant will be gladly, if that. But in the military environment, transfer to another part, apparently, will not help much.

            On the other hand, I don’t remember the all-Union party meeting or the mass of small parties on the topic: "Let's destroy our country to our beloved mother!" But I remember with which slogans perestroika began: "More socialism!"

            Voted or not voted, but deceived everyone. The party and communists and non-partisans suffered as a result.
            1. v_bueff
              v_bueff 22 November 2019 14: 20
              0
              A military, civilian is primarily a citizen, not a careerist. And if you are afraid of writing on the CPSU member’s registration card, then you should not stutter about your civil position. And in the army, accordingly, there is nothing to do. By and large. And the previous speaker went in vain to the army. War is a way of life. And the political officer is just a hindrance. What if the enemy comes across?
          2. Karen
            Karen 21 November 2019 17: 10
            +1
            Quote: Berkut24
            At the entrance to the hall, the political officer met me and said that I would stay forever with aging.

            What rank have you risen to?
            1. Berkut24
              Berkut24 21 November 2019 18: 15
              +2
              What rank have you risen to?

              He resigned in the 95th captain by signing a contract. Z0 years is a good age to start life anew. 7 months were not paid, and in the arms of two young children.
              1. Karen
                Karen 21 November 2019 18: 23
                +7
                Respect.
                ____
                About 10 years ago, my sidekick returned from the Moscow Academy, and began to read Putin's odes to me, how he raised his salary to the military sharply ... Well, I tried to explain to him that from the point of view of arithmetic for primary classes, when Putin’s actions stagnated in the Russian economy in raising salaries to the military, they simply look like a bribe ... As if to oprichnina ...
                1. Xnumx vis
                  Xnumx vis 21 November 2019 19: 09
                  -4
                  Tell your Armenians! Armenian radio broadcasts ...
                  Quote: Karen
                  Respect.
                  ____
                  About 10 years ago, my sidekick returned from the Moscow Academy, and began to read Putin's odes to me, how he raised his salary to the military sharply ... Well, I tried to explain to him that from the point of view of arithmetic for primary classes, when Putin’s actions stagnated in the Russian economy in raising salaries to the military, they simply look like a bribe ... As if to oprichnina ...
              2. DPN
                DPN 21 November 2019 22: 27
                +1
                It is because of these that the USSR fell apart, everything is rotten and no one interceded.
                1. Berkut24
                  Berkut24 21 November 2019 22: 44
                  0
                  The party was an instrument in the hands of the Central Committee and everything that revolved around them. Ordinary members have already received ready-made solutions. And after that they accelerated, saved in the economy, tried publicity the hard way, etc. Disastrous decisions were made in a narrow circle. And the psychiatric hospital could be especially "smart". Where was the land promised by Lenin to the peasants? Where were the factories promised to the workers? With each new General Secretary, the party line changed dramatically, did anyone ask the party organizations? Not for this purpose were appointed secretaries of regional committees, city committees, political commissars and other secretaries of party organizations.
        3. sniperino
          sniperino 21 November 2019 16: 46
          +2
          Quote: McAr
          Quote: Squelcher
          No country was destroyed by members of the CPSU.

          What is straight all? All 18 million?
          No. Senior members.
        4. Squelcher
          Squelcher 21 November 2019 18: 29
          +2
          Who was in power? Democrats or the Central Committee of the Communist Party? Who ruled and was responsible for the economy of politics, really non-partisan or democrats? Or maybe there were non-partisan directors in the factories? Also, the KGB must have also been non-partisan? Maybe the army was trained by non-partisan generals and senior officers? Face the truth.
          1. Mcar
            Mcar 21 November 2019 19: 25
            0
            So many words ... But there is no answer. But I just asked to clarify whether all members of the CPSU dreamed of destroying the country or in a certain percentage.

            Quote: Squelcher
            Who was in power? Democrats or the Central Committee of the Communist Party?

            Do I understand correctly that if at the helm of the country stood Chubaysyatin, then still we would live in a socialist, Soviet country?

            Quote: Squelcher
            Who ruled and was responsible for the economy of politics, really non-partisan or democrats?

            Do I understand correctly that in the USSR there were 18 million scoundrels, and all the rest are pleasing?

            One democrat said that every person should be free and have three slaves.
            1. Squelcher
              Squelcher 21 November 2019 20: 34
              +1
              So Chubais from 1977 to 1991 member of the CPSU.
              As, in principle, all now power going. Even the current Communist Party is sponsored from the budget by 70 percent.
        5. Suhow
          Suhow 23 November 2019 12: 11
          +4
          I think the Communist from a member of the Communist Party is somewhat different as a soldier from a mercenary.
          1. Mcar
            Mcar 23 November 2019 12: 27
            +1
            Quote: Suhow
            I think the Communist from a member of the Communist Party is somewhat different as a soldier from a mercenary.

            The analogy is really similar.

            A communist is essentially a commune. Member of the Communist Party and should be so. However, in reality there were all creatures in pairs. Careerists, lazy people, scoundrels and other shushara quickly realized that membership in the party promises a lot of goodies and fast career growth. And besides, you can not really burden yourself with duties, have an important look and ask strictly from others, accepting those that are repayable to everyone - from bank notes to girls in the bathhouse.

            But these were not all. I’ll say more - there were an insignificant minority of such villains, the very top was heavily infected with this scab. Ordinary communists were for the most part decent people. Yes, and they had privileges from someone - considerable contributions, and to be a model, both in production and in everyday life.
        6. Alekcandr Sokolenko
          Alekcandr Sokolenko 20 December 2019 15: 25
          0
          EVERYTHING, 18 million dolbonauts are responsible for everything, this is the responsibility of the party to the people. Can you quote Lenin, although I do not like references, something like this: "when joining our party promised only one privilege - the gallows, no one climbed into the party, but as soon as the party stood out, won and became ruling, a stream of statements gushed out from all kinds of careerists-rogues who only deserve that we shoot them! "- there is a feeling that this was written in 1991, in August.
      2. Xnumx vis
        Xnumx vis 21 November 2019 19: 07
        +3
        Quote: Squelcher
        No country was destroyed by members of the CPSU.

        You are members of the party nomenclature and members of the Central Committee of the CPSU with honest ordinary communists, do not interfere in one heap!
        1. demo
          demo 21 November 2019 19: 46
          +10
          Just for an example.
          My father joined the party after the end of the war, where he participated in 3 of the year.
          After graduating from all educational institutions - a school, technical school, university and becoming a great leader in the future, he was a member of the Bureau of the Kraikom party.
          He was a deputy of several convocations.
          But he was not a nomenclature party member.
          And when the CPSU ordered a long life, he was waiting for something for a while.
          And then these articles in Ogonyok Korotich, these "revelations" of Roy Medvedev, Gorbachev's ally Yakovlev and figures less undermined his faith in the party.
          And he, deceived twice, carried and handed over a school ticket.
          It was his personal tragedy.
          For decades, a man worked for the good of the country, defended it and shed his blood, personifying himself with both the party and his people, suddenly, in one minute, he was simply crushed by a wave of information about "atrocities and crimes."
          We are smart and informed today.
          And he, who worked from 6.00 to 20.00 with one day off for seventeen consecutive years, failed to understand where white and black.
          And so it happened with 95% of the country's Communists.
          And 5% are those who knew and destroyed.
        2. Squelcher
          Squelcher 21 November 2019 20: 39
          0
          Well, yes, simple and honest communists had nothing to do with it, there were no hack workers at the plants, there were no rags, the soldiers didn’t paint grass, there weren’t any hazing in the army, they didn’t chase defective goods, they looked at them with foreign disgust.
          They did not engage in fraud.
          1. demo
            demo 21 November 2019 22: 01
            +4
            Beginning of discussion on the responsibility of the Communists for the collapse of the country.
            There were 16,5 million people in the party.
            And in the country there were 300 millions.
            A little ratio of numbers does not bother?
            There were hack workers, there were nonsuns.
            But only at the factories of the Communists was more, in percentage terms, than, say, in Soviet trade.
            The percentage of communists in production was a hundred times higher than in the creative intelligentsia.
            And so on.
            The party knew who it was possible to accept and whom it was not desirable.
            1. Squelcher
              Squelcher 21 November 2019 22: 37
              0
              Well, so who was at the helm having unlimited material and administrative resources? Not communists with Komsomol members? Or were all non-partisan in all leadership positions? Under whose leadership did the USSR slide down, did people provide so well that they almost hunted for simple bright rags?
              1. demo
                demo 21 November 2019 22: 49
                +4
                According to the Constitution of the USSR, the CPSU is the guiding force.
                But without leverage.
                The power in the USSR was Soviet. But the leaders of the state, the heads of ministries and departments, the chairmen of the regional and regional executive committees, etc. were members of the CPSU.
                The party relinquished responsibility for governance.
                General Secretary of the CPSU Brezhnev L.I. - Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Council of the USSR - the highest legislative body of the country.
                And so in everything.
                Achievements are the merit of the party.
                Failure is the responsibility of the leader.
                First, the party meeting. An exception. And then dismissal from work. Maybe a court. And a jail time. And maybe abruptly.
                By the way. Many leaders were dragged to the last with joining the party.
                For worse than the People’s control was only Party control.
                It is such an archaic form of separation of power and responsibility that led to grave consequences.

                This topic is not for this site. The information provided should be very complex and very long.
                Already tired. I'm going to rest.
                1. Squelcher
                  Squelcher 22 November 2019 04: 14
                  -1
                  According to the constitution, in fact, what happened?
      3. ppgt90
        ppgt90 21 November 2019 23: 26
        -1
        Only a particularly gifted ignoramus can make such a statement. The country was destroyed by traitors in a previously made conspiracy with the "American partners". Gorbachev and his entourage purposefully led the country to destruction. The country was destroyed by the people. And this definition will also be correct. When the remaining adequate minority tried to resist the traitors and prevent the death of the country, the people stupidly drank vodka, watched a TV box and poured mud on everyone and everything while sitting in the kitchen. Only the people are guilty of the fact that in the late 80's and early 90's there was an ARTIFICIAL deficit. No one, except for a handful of military and political figures, whom later the country's Army, called upon to protect the people and the state, betrayed and cold-bloodedly shot from tank guns, stood up to defend their country. It was the betrayal of the Army, officers and privates, all without exception that led to the coming to power of the Sverdlovsk rogue and alcoholic. It is the Army that is to blame for the fact that Russia was thrown into CHAOS by renegades from power. And that's not all the culprits. It can be enumerated for a long time. If you are not friends with your head, if it is stupid to eat vodka and spit on everything, then it is quite possible one day to wake up as a WORK IN A COLLAR. Then it will really be late.
        1. arthropod
          arthropod 22 November 2019 11: 31
          +2
          Quote: ppgt90
          The country was destroyed by the people.

          Quote: ppgt90
          When the remaining adequate minority tried

          Our country is good, our people are bad. Another one came out of the "adequate minority". This is not your minority parades across Europe, eh?
      4. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 22 November 2019 16: 41
        0
        No, individuals from the Central Committee of the CPSU. However, the Central Committee was full of patriots, but they did not play the weather ...
      5. Alekcandr Sokolenko
        Alekcandr Sokolenko 20 December 2019 15: 12
        0
        Isn't this the same thing? -Surnames in the studio, it will be easier, how can you navigate by words at all? -Everyone knows: "promise-not marry", throwing out a party card-not transforming, it's simple: to be naked, as he said a foreigner at Bulgakov: "will be exposed!"
    2. Astana_KZ
      Astana_KZ 21 November 2019 17: 18
      +2
      nobody is in hell, all the devils are here!
    3. Uncle Izya
      Uncle Izya 21 November 2019 18: 35
      +1
      And the fact that the Union did not go to defend it is telling you something?
      And in 41, from little to great, they defended the country
      1. Xnumx vis
        Xnumx vis 21 November 2019 21: 43
        -3
        Party discipline was fierce. Until the top, the Central Committee of the CPSU does not give a command, until this team reaches the lowest levels. not one communist could take a step.
        1. Uncle Izya
          Uncle Izya 22 November 2019 09: 12
          +1
          Well, I remember Gorbach when they proclaimed about perestroika, everyone was happy with the young type, and this henpecked scumbag did what his wife said to himself a hunchbacked, cowardly, not decisive partocrat
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. IgorIP
      IgorIP 6 December 2019 08: 14
      0
      What shit in the late 80s ???
      These are all members of the CPSU!
  2. K-50
    K-50 21 November 2019 14: 18
    +22
    It was not the people who destroyed the USSR and betrayed it, but the snickering elites. The same thing is happening now! sad
    1. xax
      xax 21 November 2019 17: 11
      +6
      Quote: K-50
      It was not the people who destroyed the USSR and betrayed it, but the snickering elites

      That form of government lasted only two and a half times longer than the current form already exists. Feel the passage of time? Are you aware of it in such a comparison? And we are still looking for the guilty, where everything is clear already. Maybe, than for the thousandth time to procrastinate one and the same thing, finally we come to the conclusions?

      1. Under communism, sooner or later "elitism" begins to be inherited, which contradicts the foundations of this form of state structure. People love their children and care for their best life, here the elite is no exception - this is a given.
      2. The hereditary "elitists" will sooner or later want more - they will want to legitimize their rights and privileges by going over to some form of capitalism, when they will legally own the inherited factories / newspapers / ships.
      3. The people, with this form of government, do not have effective tools to influence the course of events in their country (there is, in fact, no right to vote; there is no freedom of speech; there is no proper quality of information about the situation in the country, etc.). The "elite" in the 80s, regardless of the opinion of the people (they didn’t care what you were against — you didn’t have the tools to stop them), changed the form of government in the country and ruined the country to pieces. What was supposed to serve to preserve the integrity of the state ultimately served the opposite - funny, right?

      What is needed is a form of government that will have one of its main values ​​- social justice (as in the USSR), but which will be deprived of the critical shortcomings that ultimately destroyed the USSR.
      1. ppgt90
        ppgt90 21 November 2019 23: 31
        -3
        Why engage in verbiage? To raise the level of your "I"? These are not conclusions - this is nonsense.
        1. V.I.F.
          V.I.F. 22 November 2019 11: 19
          +2
          All he says is true.
          And nonsense, to raise the level of your "I" - your post. Empty mooing in a displeased tone. What is the use of you? Why did you write this?
  3. New Year day
    New Year day 21 November 2019 14: 19
    +7
    "The Soviet system was the most reliable socio-economic system that mankind has invented during its entire existence. I heard these words in 1995, and in Qatar. The then Minister of Energy said to our delegation when we entered his office:" Why are you They came to me, traitors ?! "We were taken aback. After that he burst out laughing and said:" Well, what else are you fools to call? You destroyed the state with your own hands, which we considered a model of economic and social well-being. "

    и

    who to believe? laughing
    1. Mar.Tirah
      Mar.Tirah 21 November 2019 14: 48
      +19
      Quote: Silvestr
      who to believe?

      First of all, to myself. To our perception of the world instilled in our teachers by our children from childhood. And all this agitation of the authorities is only dust in the eyes to justify your fattening existence at your and my expense.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 21 November 2019 14: 52
        +4
        Quote: Mar. Tira
        First of all, to yourself.

        I believe in myself. That's just
        Quote: Mar. Tira
        ... the agitation of the authorities is just dust in the eye to justify your fattening existence at your and my expense.

        unfortunately, it has addressees. "Divide and Conquer!"
    2. SOVIET UNION 2
      SOVIET UNION 2 21 November 2019 15: 15
      +13
      Putin slips anti-Soviet comments and actions. Therefore, I do not believe Putin. He is still captive to the ideas of liberalism, although he has publicly stated that the liberal idea is failing. But he does everything in support of the liberals, loves the dissidents' anti-Soviet and seems to quietly carry out his desovetization. The Soviet Union has black galoshes and a shortage of goods.
      1. at84432384
        at84432384 22 November 2019 17: 48
        +1
        Do you think Putin has any ideas? I doubt it very much. As the world financial system began to fall apart, before Trump he had declared the collapse of liberalism. And when it collapses, then he will first proclaim the left course. We will see it very soon. The collapse of the Bretton Woods system is just around the corner. The collapse of the USSR extended its agony for 30 years, but did not save.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 22 November 2019 20: 51
          -2
          He will not go anywhere, as he was and will remain.
    3. Sotskiy
      Sotskiy 21 November 2019 15: 25
      +5
      Quote: Silvestr
      who to believe?

      Well, certainly not to the hired manager (as he called himself) of the "pasta factory".
    4. Alekcandr Sokolenko
      Alekcandr Sokolenko 20 December 2019 08: 29
      0
      Would be smart, keep mum, at whom you are sweeping, you sho wrote for a whole piece: "Soak ushex in the toilet?" - and this is the right to criticize Lenin? - this is an epitaph on the grave of "microns", no more. similar to Aristotle-bald head, brother, not a sign of intelligence, but a sign of lack of hair, nothing more.
    5. Alekcandr Sokolenko
      Alekcandr Sokolenko 20 December 2019 14: 45
      0
      "Unsuitable?" - navene, if such "titans" of thought are generated by "zits-chairmen Rogov and Kopyt, he swore allegiance to the Motherland, but served Judas ..
  4. Svarog
    Svarog 21 November 2019 14: 20
    +9
    "Why did you come to me, traitors ?!" We were taken aback. After that, he burst out laughing and said: "Well, what else can I call you fools? You destroyed the state with your own hands, which we considered a model of economic and social well-being."

    There were no fools .. the Minister of Energy was right, it was the traitors who destroyed it. Which are now very well arranged ..
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 21 November 2019 14: 31
      +7
      Quote: Svarog
      There were no fools .. the Minister of Energy was right, it was the traitors who destroyed it. Which are now very well arranged ..
      Reply

      Exactly. And the first persons who staged a coup, and before that allowed economic sabotage, are the top officials of the KGB. It’s necessary: ​​the captain of the third rank couldn’t do anything at the BLCK, and the drunk with a dust bag in his pocket, which he put on his head and thrown into the ditch, crawled out, climbed onto the tank with the help of a locksmith and could ... laughing
      All this toad essence today has manifested itself, and even impudence is being gained:
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 21 November 2019 15: 09
        +5
        Quote: ROSS 42
        and the drunk with a dusty bag in his pocket, which he put on his head and thrown into the ditch, crawled out, climbed onto the tank with the help of a locksmith and could ..

        It worked so stupidly that you wonder, but everything went away, everyone ate and did not notice how the drunk in the bag became president.
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 21 November 2019 15: 18
          +5
          You know, here many do not even remember the beginning of this "politician". Such an inadequate little man ... When I remember how he shuffled the deck of the government and officials, this is how criminals cover their tracks so that they don't know who to ask from.
          The fall of Yeltsin from the bridge
          In the autobiographical book of Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin "Confession on a given topic" you can find a description of an interesting and extraordinary incident from the life of the author.
          What happened is this: after meeting with voters, Boris Nikolayevich went to his old friend Sergei Bashilov, who lived in a dacha in the Moscow region. Yeltsin let go of the driver and decided to walk. Suddenly, out of nowhere, unknown persons wearing masks appeared on the Zhiguli, put a sack on Boris Nikolayevich's head and threw it into the river.
          The water in the river was very cold and Yeltsin barely managed to remove the bag from his head and get ashore. After that, he went to the police post. There they helped him: they warmed, watered tea and called his wife and daughter.
          Boris Nikolaevich asked not to disclose the incident, fearing that his supporters might go on strike.
          But the awl in the bag could not be concealed. Soon, Minister of Internal Affairs Bakatin reported at a session of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR that there was no attempt.
          In his book, Boris Nikolayevich claims that they tried to discredit him and spread rumors about his mistress who doused him with water from a bucket.
    2. sniperino
      sniperino 21 November 2019 17: 15
      -2
      Quote: Svarog
      the Minister of Energy is right, it was the traitors who destroyed it.
      Where did they get so much from in the upper echelons of municipal, republican and other authorities? Weren't 18 million communists promoted there? And even if they’re out of business, then what kind of democracy in the USSR (250 million) is there all the time talking about?
    3. Alekcandr Sokolenko
      Alekcandr Sokolenko 20 December 2019 08: 37
      0
      Formally, yes, in fact, no, not traitors because the traitor is conscious, subjective, he knows what he’s taking and risks, and the rats (in pursuit of the FREE cheese) are not conscious-instinctive (animals, rodents) are weak, therefore both the Predator and the Barn Master manipulate their passions and interests -weak ones, it's all about the Closed System (the zoo) that dampens organic behavior skills, the will weakens, atrophies in a non-competitive, monopolistic Environment, and the trophy hunter, at first training: lure and weasel, grows a domestic pig (an animal simply dressed in Versace’s costume )) -for slaughter, it’s simple and obvious (algorithm): Dialectics, as an instrument of aggression or the evolution of the Species under conditions of purposeful selection and scientifically based diet.
  5. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 21 November 2019 14: 20
    +5
    How else to call you fools? You destroyed the state with your own hands, which we considered a model of economic and social well-being. "
    A powerful conspiratorial organization, working under the supervision of overseas curators for several decades.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 21 November 2019 14: 36
      +2
      Quote: tihonmarine
      A powerful conspiratorial organization, working under the supervision of overseas curators for several decades.

      For listening to the Voice of America, all electrical devices were seized, and the organization, and even undercover, worked ... Yeah ... Right on the Lubyanka ... wassat And then she went out and tap her symbol:
      cold mind warm heart and clean hands

      overthrew, and hands on the shoulders launched into the bins of the motherland ...
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 21 November 2019 14: 51
        +4
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Yeah ... Right on the Lubyanka ...

        You are right here.
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 21 November 2019 14: 53
        +4
        Quote: ROSS 42
        and hands on the very shoulders launched into the bins of the motherland ...

        if only in the bins! Into our pockets!
      3. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 21 November 2019 15: 03
        +4
        Quote: ROSS 42
        cold mind warm heart and clean hands

        Well, almost that is so, although this is too enthusiastic a slogan, but in life it is always easier. I won’t get into a jungle about G. Yagoda, but just say a few words about the fact that Gorbachev’s clique was brought to power by the long-time chief of the KGB of the USSR and the secretary general of 1982-1984, Yuri Andropov. But who introduced Yuri Vladimirovich himself to the highest echelons of power? Otto Wilhelmovich Kuusinen (1881-1964 gg.). The figure is in many ways ominous and mysterious. This is for thought.
      4. SOVIET UNION 2
        SOVIET UNION 2 21 November 2019 15: 18
        +4
        And I listened to the Voice of America and Radio Liberty and did not know that the receiver could be taken from me! bully
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 21 November 2019 15: 21
          +1
          Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
          And I listened to the Voice of America and Radio Liberty and did not know that the receiver could be taken from me!

          Listening year before 1982 or after? And on what model of the receiver, if not secret?
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 21 November 2019 15: 39
            +2
            Quote: ROSS 42
            Listening year before 1982 or after? And on what model of the receiver, if not secret?

            And in what region they lived. After 1982 (the year of Brezhnev's death) everything was on the side for everyone. Before that time they could, but not everywhere. There were no problems in the Baltics, although we did not really listen to these "voices", but we listened to the "German wave" and France more.
          2. SOVIET UNION 2
            SOVIET UNION 2 21 November 2019 16: 56
            +3
            Until 1982, Ocean receiver. There were noises, of course, but it was audible. But to the noise of the receiver, as to the sound of rain, I slept well. hi Today they say that then you could not listen to Western music, and radio. Someone like that, but I and others in those years listened to foreign music, copied some onto bobbins, some onto cassettes. And Nicerta was not scared as some paint life under the Union. Well there were of course discontent. With the advent of Gorbachev, they began to open, in quotation marks, eyes to our past. Only with the opening of the eyes did the impression that life began to worsen a little. By the EBN elections in the country, there was complete confusion and vacillation. Although, with the advent of Gorbi and EBN, everyone hoped for an improvement in life. With the advent of Putin, there was also hope for a better life. Especially the KGB officer! Now he will hurt everyone! 20 years have passed. The story seems to be repeating itself. Who will be after Putin? Who do we want? Officer, journalist, businessman, worker, priest, homeless ...? What horse do we want to put on after Putin’s departure? This issue has not yet been discussed even at VO! But in vain. The editorial board of VO could conduct a survey among readers of the site. Who will you vote for today in the election !? And no matter what the real elections are in two or four years. It is interesting who we want as rulers. First, bring someone we want. But not by family name, but by class or political grounds. Well, like we want a worker as president, and we are for the monarchy, and we are for the official, and so on. And then we’ll try to choose a potential president. Well, then of course we will discuss this candidate. What do we expect from him. If you do not discuss now, it is very likely that they will slip the receiver and there will be no one to choose from. But we will decide on business qualities and political orientation. There in February, officers simply removed the tsar, and in October, three dozen senior officers had to remove the temporary ones together with the Bolsheviks. hi In short, it did not work, so I apologize! hi
            1. Cossack 471
              Cossack 471 22 November 2019 00: 05
              +3
              The technologies have already been worked out. The right person will be brought to the throne. He will begin, for example, in the rank of head of government, to make beautiful gestures, For example, he will raise pensions. will reduce VAT reduce the age of retirement and everyone will vote for him when he wants to become president And then again the same record: favorite oligarchs business captains And not beloved people
        2. demo
          demo 21 November 2019 22: 14
          -2
          If you just listened and were silent - this is one thing.
          But if you were attracted to folklore in a team, then you would definitely be seized. Maybe you, along with the receiver.
          1. VeteranVSSSR
            VeteranVSSSR 21 November 2019 23: 07
            +4
            Bullshit !!! Everyone listened, discussed, and believe me, well, no one got a light bulb ...
            At 19,25.49 meters - Voice of America
            Free Europe and BBC I do not remember
            WEF receivers, Ocean, Riga, Belarus, Regonda ...
            I listened somewhere from 75/76 to 85/86 ...
  6. gridasov
    gridasov 21 November 2019 14: 24
    0
    Russia, like the USSR, has always been operated in manual mode. In other words, the mechanism of stable and consistent development has never existed. There are volitional decisions of key personalities on which this development is based. however, due to the fact that nothing lasts forever and human potential runs low, this leads to the first degradation of the state as a system, and then the emergence of critical tension in society. What is now happening again and naturally.
    1. UserGun
      UserGun 21 November 2019 14: 47
      +3
      But I’ll even agree. For example, indeed, in a normal state, you can change your leader several times a year and nothing bad happens for the population and the state itself, because the system works even in such an emergency case.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 21 November 2019 14: 58
        +1
        Quote: UserGun
        For example, indeed, in a normal state, you can change the leader as many times a year and nothing bad happens for the population and the state itself

        Have such states remained at the moment?
        1. demo
          demo 21 November 2019 22: 15
          0
          Italy.
          Changing the Cabinet of Ministers is the national fun of local Aboriginal people.
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 21 November 2019 22: 59
            0
            Compared to the 60s and 80s, governments in Italy began to change much less frequently. But even then, governments changed frequently, but the same people often held key posts there. The same Andreotti, then the Prime Minister, then the Minister of Foreign Affairs.
      2. gridasov
        gridasov 21 November 2019 15: 12
        +1
        So it is obvious as a white day in all respects. Not the state as a mechanism should be dominant in a stably existing community of people, but the middle class as a source in all directions. The state should support this part of the population and develop it as the most proactive part in society in the creation and achievement of results. Russia, however, is far from all this, which is why it is forced to be ruled by a clan of lords. With the change of generations, it loses its potential to actively rule the country.
  7. maiman61
    maiman61 21 November 2019 14: 35
    +1
    Well, you might think. that the situation in the state is different now.
  8. rocket757
    rocket757 21 November 2019 14: 50
    +4
    It's a shame ... for the power, for ourselves, for all of us.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 21 November 2019 14: 55
      +5
      Quote: rocket757
      It's a shame ... for the power, for ourselves, for all of us.

      Victor! You are adequate hi . Question: how will it all end, in your opinion?
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 21 November 2019 15: 05
        0
        Everything will depend on who will be the new head of state. But if this is not a person from a key part of the Politburo. Secret and invisible, I note, then the loss of control threads will further begin to split Russia. It is worth noting that the country's revenue potential will be very quickly wasted, and irreplaceable in due measure, if the emphasis is placed on hydrocarbon resources. I believe many have noticed that Europe is refusing subsidized financing for the production and processing of hydrocarbons. This is a very serious decision with consequences, which many will not perceive as the beginning of an obvious process.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 21 November 2019 15: 14
          +4
          Quote: gridasov
          Everything will depend on who will be the new head of state. But if it is not a person from a key part of the Politburo

          you immediately rejected the evolutionary path of development. In such a case, there will be no "if". It's about security, big money
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 21 November 2019 15: 25
            0
            Everything is quite simple as a mechanism for analyzing big data or factors influencing certain given system parameters. The transformation of Russia is influenced by very different factors in terms of strength and the tasks that the so-called partners pose. At the same time, I note that there is no real method of mathematical analysis as such. There are many experts with a very subjective opinion on their personal interests. But judging by the processes that take place and where they originate from and where the most potential states and their communities develop, one can model various levels of prospects, even taking into account changes in the dynamics of individual processes.
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 21 November 2019 15: 41
              +2
              Quote: gridasov
              then it is possible to simulate different levels of perspectives, even taking into account changes in the dynamics of individual processes.

              Konstantin Remchukov: Analysis of the most likely scenarios for the development of Russia in the coming years
              http://www.ng.ru/politic/2019-11-20/1_7730_main.html hi
      2. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 21 November 2019 15: 05
        +6
        Quote: Silvestr
        Question: how will it all end, in your opinion?

        Viktor's opinion is unknown to me, but sooner or later all this injustice can only give rise to "the Russian revolt - cruel and merciless." If it is possible to change the political system and the economic structure with the help of reforms, then all these democrats, as always, will flee abroad, and from there they will shake their rights to Russian mineral resources, property and property, demanding justice ... request
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 21 November 2019 15: 15
          +7
          Quote: ROSS 42
          sooner or later, all this injustice can only give rise to a "Russian revolt - cruel and merciless."

          it seems the only real option, unfortunately
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 21 November 2019 15: 31
            0
            we can say that the riot will be against the backdrop of a queue of predators eager to bite off a bigger piece. The Americans have certainly developed this technology
      3. rocket757
        rocket757 21 November 2019 15: 13
        +4
        Greetings Sylvester soldier
        Quote: Silvestr
        You are adequate

        Now it is not enough to be just adequate, especially from the time when everything seemed to be clear, determined ... the lack of information and our position somewhere down there, in the management chain, played a tragic "joke" with us!
        Well, if you knew that such times would come, then ..... though, there is nothing new in this world, if you look back, perhaps the means of communication have become BETTER, but they SHARED us, although they should have connected us!
        Now, as always, from the top management level, we are stuffed with everything, just not objective information .... there is not enough "brain resources" to evaluate everything that falls on us, sort it out on the shelves and make the CORRECT CONCLUSIONS!
        That’s what I’m .... I DO NOT KNOW how it will continue, primarily because I see around, basically, the same, not foolish, kind of just bewildered and are unable to do anything!
        We live \ survive by inertia and ....
        That’s why it’s impossible for us to UNITE, I can’t explain it at all.
        Common sense shouts straight, PEOPLE UNIT and make the life of the country better ... what would your life become better! Indeed, individually, we won’t achieve anything good, this is a loss, definitely.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 21 November 2019 15: 19
          +4
          Quote: rocket757
          Indeed, individually, we won’t achieve anything good, this is a loss, definitely.

          that's right, you said it! The trouble is. that we are not even given the opportunity to unite. And this, not fault, but the misfortune of the country.
          Here Ivashov, to whom I relate with deep trust, also believes that the disunity of the country will still do us a "service"
          Quote: rocket757
          I DO NOT KNOW how it will continue, primarily because I see around, basically, the same ones, not fools like, just bewildered and are unable to do anything!

          And I don't know, that's just the point, many live by the principle "grab your bags, the station is leaving."
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 21 November 2019 17: 41
            +1
            Quote: Silvestr
            many live by the principle "grab the bags, the station departs

            We have everything for everyone, but we won’t get to the most necessary and important thing, we won’t do it, no way !!! I don’t understand why, like many more of the Soviet schools, it means they should have received a quality education ... and even then they taught not only the slogans, by the way, most often the right ones, but everything else that is necessary!
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 21 November 2019 17: 58
              +2
              Quote: rocket757
              like many more of the Soviet school, so they should have received a quality education ..

              So after all, both Gorbyty and Kravchuk graduated from the Soviet school, and Putin too. It’s not only school that you see
        2. gridasov
          gridasov 21 November 2019 15: 36
          +1
          It is not slogans that can unite but concrete work. Therefore, multitasking lies in the fact that the tops must develop a comprehensive program for the development of the state at all levels and share part of their resources. Russia should become attractive for life, first of all, of the middle and active class of the population, which in working days and unites the country
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 21 November 2019 17: 36
            +3
            Quote: gridasov
            top should

            Officials have told us more than once and have shown us that they do not owe us anything and all that jazz.
            It cannot be otherwise in such a system as long as we have an amorphous, grumbling mass!
            We will be a single, monolithic force, the upper ones will quickly switch to another language and actions will switch, because .... they will begin to work differently.
            There will be no evolution in a natural way, only under duress.
            UNITY. POWER!
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 21 November 2019 17: 39
              +1
              You see, but I live by the principle of not looking for the guilty. Therefore, perhaps you are right. Too much I idealize and argue that all people should consolidate their tasks and strive for a better life
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 21 November 2019 18: 01
                +1
                Unity does not hurt even ideal people. Any problems are best solved together.
                No wonder the registry office reminds us to live together in grief and joy! Together it’s fun to pace the open spaces! And dad en masse to hand together in an ugly way!
                Notice, I have always been / are a tough individualist, I never liked to keep up with the crowd, but I understand when it is harmful / dangerous to do this, I am always ready to cooperate!
                1. gridasov
                  gridasov 21 November 2019 18: 06
                  0
                  In that our views coincide absolutely.
            2. New Year day
              New Year day 21 November 2019 18: 24
              +5
              Quote: rocket757
              There will be no natural evolution


              So GDP speaks of evolution, but does the opposite. Paradox
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 21 November 2019 18: 35
                +2
                Quote: Silvestr
                Paradox

                Just a hoax! The system is sharpened for self-preservation, all its cogs / springs serve just for this.
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 21 November 2019 17: 59
            +4
            Quote: gridasov
            May not unite slogans


            Hatred also unites, and these are feelings
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 21 November 2019 18: 04
              0
              Without a doubt ! But this is a question of what social and intellectual part of the population the reactions are related to. Therefore, I often talk about mathematical methods of analysis as without emotional and accurate.
            2. rocket757
              rocket757 21 November 2019 18: 12
              +1
              Hatred destroys everything around itself. Any association based on it does not exist for a long time, and only evil is sown around itself.
              1. New Year day
                New Year day 21 November 2019 18: 23
                +5
                Quote: rocket757
                Hatred destroys everything around itself.

                Of course! But the question is, against whom will this hatred be directed! Hatred of fascism helped to win the victory, and hatred of Nicholas II to overthrow him
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 21 November 2019 18: 32
                  0
                  Few people can cope with their hatred, stop and .... heal again, normally, even harder. It happens, but very rarely.
                  If it does not stop in time, destruction will occur.
  9. Vdi73
    Vdi73 21 November 2019 15: 03
    -1
    The Communists, Komsomol members wanted to snatch and ruined the country precisely for this, stolen on the estates and yachts in the guise of the collapse of the country.
    1. Dym71
      Dym71 21 November 2019 15: 51
      +1
      Quote: Vdi73
      The Communists, Komsomol members wanted to snatch and ruined the country precisely for this, stolen on the estates and yachts in the guise of the collapse of the country.

      It’s not necessary to generalize, it couldn’t even occur to the ordinary communist, but the top used the estates and yachts.
      1. onix757
        onix757 21 November 2019 19: 55
        +2
        top and so used estates and yachts

        And what were the names of Brezhnev, Kosygin or Ryzhkov yachts? Could you tell. The names of yachts and estates of modern figures are well known, but with elements of the luxurious life of that time, a whitewash came out
        1. Karen
          Karen 21 November 2019 20: 00
          0
          Quote: onix757
          And what were the names of Brezhnev, Kosygin or Ryzhkov yachts?

          A little lower rank?
          Tsvigun, for example ... That he oversaw the illegal supply of black caviar over the hill ..
          1. onix757
            onix757 21 November 2019 20: 05
            0
            And now a lower rank. Well, what was his name of the yacht?
            1. Karen
              Karen 21 November 2019 20: 07
              0
              Accounts in foreign banks ...
              1. onix757
                onix757 21 November 2019 20: 13
                +1
                Well, we got to the point, and then it turns out that this information is also a figment of your imagination. So there were estates and no yachts .. So?
                1. Karen
                  Karen 21 November 2019 20: 19
                  0
                  Purchases of estates and yachts are paid from bank accounts ...
                  1. onix757
                    onix757 21 November 2019 20: 25
                    +1
                    You do not hear a specific question and answer with propaganda cliches. This indicates intentional slander against the leaders of the USSR
                    1. Karen
                      Karen 21 November 2019 20: 28
                      0
                      If not the leaders determined the status, but a lower rank, then what can we say about them?
                      _____
                      By the way, Galina Brezhneva had more diamonds than she should ... Romanov’s daughter and her lovers walked Hoffmann, who he stood up for in front of his father ... And so on. etc.
                      Leaders, damn it ...
                      1. onix757
                        onix757 21 November 2019 20: 33
                        +1
                        Let's try again) What estates were you talking about? What yachts (any ship has a name)? Sizes of accounts and in which banks?
                      2. Karen
                        Karen 21 November 2019 20: 35
                        0
                        Zvigun and Co.'s accounts in foreign banks, because of which he was asked to shoot himself ...
                        Galina's diamonds ...
                      3. onix757
                        onix757 21 November 2019 20: 42
                        +2
                        Suppose an average daughter had diamonds at an aggregate value less than that of a police colonel in cash in an apartment. Have you forgotten the question about the estates and yachts? And yes, do not tell me how a person with a Soviet passport could use an account with a foreign bank?)
                      4. Karen
                        Karen 21 November 2019 20: 48
                        0
                        Quote: onix757
                        And yes, do not tell me how a person with a Soviet passport could use an account with a foreign bank?)

                        There are too many banks, and in the 89th my friends suggested opening an account there ...
                        :) And they offered to buy a yacht of the Soviet pr-v in the 90th for 200t.r. :)

                        And the leaders of the yachts got state yachts ... More than once I visited such yachts that they were intended only for them (except for the fact that the KGB often scoured there) ...
                      5. onix757
                        onix757 21 November 2019 20: 58
                        +2
                        Do you now want to present to me the period of the collapse of the Union and hammering of nails into the lid of the coffin according to Chubais, As evidence of the existence of estates and yachts in the leadership of the USSR? Invalid statement. It was not personal property of the first persons that was sold for nothing, but primarily state property. Something like this.
                      6. Karen
                        Karen 21 November 2019 21: 09
                        -2
                        Galina was swaggering in the era of her dear father, the daughter of Romanov, who went to bed with a thug, on whose account the sea of ​​blood, too ... Tsvigun lived as he wanted long before suicide ... We got drunk with party members in Baku, then flew by helicopter to Gandzasar, where he started shooting at church monuments, shouting at the same time: "The Armenians need this."

                        Rotten was power at all significant levels ...
                      7. onix757
                        onix757 21 November 2019 21: 19
                        +2
                        Enjoy the rotten power of modern Armenia. And yes, fewer revolutions
                      8. Karen
                        Karen 21 November 2019 21: 27
                        -1
                        Quote: onix757
                        Enjoy the rotten power of modern Armenia. And yes, fewer revolutions

                        We had no revolutions ... So, theatrical performances ... So that the people would really not make a real revolution ... They stage performances, they receive gifts to the budget from the former, who are a little kept in prison ... So, today they put up for auction a gift to the budget of a former customs officer, Golden Palace Hotel
                        And we really need a revolution ... Drowned in our own blood of so many former ...
                      9. onix757
                        onix757 21 November 2019 21: 29
                        +1
                        Don't you like the presence of social inequality in capitalist Armenia?
                      10. Karen
                        Karen 21 November 2019 21: 36
                        -1
                        No, I don’t like that fussing with the former thief of power ...
                        About 15 years ago, Kocharyan laughed at the opposition, which, like, they complain about the authorities, to European structures, which, like, is not accepted in the West ... Today, he and Serge (yesterday, for example, in Zagreb) ask the West stand up for them :)
                        ______
                        And under the commies the authorities stole, but not so much ...
        2. Dym71
          Dym71 21 November 2019 20: 37
          0
          Quote: onix757
          And what were Brezhnev’s yachts called?

          Favorite - "Petrel"
          1. onix757
            onix757 21 November 2019 20: 45
            +4
            Favorite - "Petrel"

            mind the state. Nobody handed it over to the inheritance and even a modestly modest boat for the first-person yacht of the USSR.
            1. Dym71
              Dym71 21 November 2019 20: 50
              -2
              Quote: onix757
              mind the state.

              Naturally, do you think this fact greatly bothered Leonid Ilyich on vacation? smile
              By the way, in the photo above he is standing with a bottle of beer, do you think it was purchased in an ordinary Soviet store?
              Quote: onix757
              and for the first-person yacht of the USSR, a rather modest little ship.

              Yeah, "Crimea" and "Caucasus" will be steeper bully
              1. onix757
                onix757 21 November 2019 21: 04
                +2
                Naturally, do you think this fact greatly bothered Leonid Ilyich on vacation?

                Of course I did not bother, because the first person knew that on this boat it would be a temporary person, and state attributes would never become the property of either his or her relatives.
                And yes, any Soviet beer was a natural product, with the color of amber and the smell of malt.
                1. Dym71
                  Dym71 21 November 2019 21: 07
                  -2
                  Quote: onix757
                  And yes, any Soviet beer was a natural product

                  But don't you remember what was called "Gorbach's urine" in the USSR? wassat
                  1. onix757
                    onix757 21 November 2019 21: 12
                    +2
                    And what did guests cancel for beer production in Gorbachev’s time? They didn’t use preservatives, but they diluted them .. well, the times weren’t the best in the history of the Union.
                    1. Dym71
                      Dym71 21 November 2019 21: 16
                      -1
                      Quote: onix757
                      And what during the time of Gorbachev did guests cancel the production of beer?

                      Not at all, but here's a joke about the theme of those times:
                      Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev arrives at the plant, speaks to the hard workers. At the end he says: "Maybe there will be questions, requests?" Silence, and then one proletarian can't stand it: "Leonid Ilyich, tell them to make caps with a visor on vodka bottles, otherwise it's impossible." Slightly surprised by such a request, Leonid Ilyich promises: "Okay, I'll tell you." He comes home, takes out a bottle of vodka from the bar, unscrews the lid and exclaims: "What the hell is the visor here!"
                      1. onix757
                        onix757 21 November 2019 21: 23
                        +3
                        Jokes are a sign of personality popularity. And your truth, then the factories were unlike today. The time of merchants and bankers.
                      2. Dym71
                        Dym71 21 November 2019 21: 31
                        0
                        Do not mourn, mortal, yesterday's loss,
                        I’m not doing today's business of tomorrow
                        Believe neither the past nor the coming minute
                        Believe in the minute - be happy now!
                      3. onix757
                        onix757 21 November 2019 21: 32
                        +3
                        I appreciated your craving for high)
                      4. Dym71
                        Dym71 21 November 2019 21: 37
                        0
                        Quote: onix757
                        I appreciated your craving for high)

                        And I corrected you a little rating, otherwise cheat minus request
                      5. Karen
                        Karen 21 November 2019 22: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Dym71
                        Slightly surprised by such a request, Leonid Ilyich promises: "Okay, I'll tell you." He comes home, takes out a bottle of vodka from the bar, unscrews the lid and exclaims: "What the hell is the visor here!"


                        The poem then was:

                        Brezhnev, Suslov and Podgorny,
                        We drank selected cognac,
                      6. Dym71
                        Dym71 21 November 2019 22: 52
                        0
                        Quote: Karen
                        We drank selected cognac

                      7. Karen
                        Karen 21 November 2019 22: 58
                        0
                        I already told you ... Then our technologist wrote a letter to Moscow that it was not necessary to spoil the drink with distilled water, but it would be better to "soft" from Garni ...
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 22 November 2019 20: 58
        -6
        But it was the rank and file communists in the 90s who pulled away all the state farms, collective farms, factories, factories and everything that was bad, the rest all connected to the same process.
        1. Dym71
          Dym71 22 November 2019 23: 03
          0
          Quote: Vadim237
          But it was the ordinary Communists in the 90s who pulled away all the state farms, collective farms, factories, factories and all that was bad

          So after all, the actions of those in power, such as EBN, prompted, so to speak, to action and off we go, the program from the GDR "Do with us, do as we do, do better than us" remember? bully
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 22 November 2019 23: 49
            -5
            Well, in the early 90s there was essentially no power - sheer chaos, someone saved their production, someone tried to save and someone plundered them, the others did not care. And the whole country was deeply in debt in such conditions, there could be no talk of any development. Things went in the economy only after default.
  10. Gost2012
    Gost2012 21 November 2019 15: 06
    -6
    The state system of the USSR was ineffective; it could not develop and compete with the West. The territorial disintegration of the country into fragments is a disaster and a big disaster, a consequence of serious mistakes, and it could be avoided.
    But the demise of the socialist system and the CPSU was inevitable and the only question is when and with what consequences it will happen.
    This is better seen in the example of the army - in the early stages, which had no distinction and responsibility for not executing orders, the Red Army was incapable and could not carry out any tasks. Only with the return of military ranks and insignia, and differences in content, read - social differences between the command staff and the rank and file it was possible from armed gangs and crowds to create and strengthen the army.
    Exactly the same story with engineers in production - until the socialist elite was created, the growth of industry was almost impossible. Later, it was replaced by the party, and engineers were lowered to a level sometimes lower than workers, and perhaps this is one of the reasons for the technological lag.
    No state system in which the self-realization of an individual, including the material one, is possible or extremely difficult, cannot be successful and doomed to failure, sooner or later. The PRC could change its fate and achieve success only by making some adjustments and deviations from socialist views, taking into account the experience of the USSR.
    But territorial disintegration, I repeat, is a disaster and a big mistake, this is a pity.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 21 November 2019 15: 41
      +1
      here it is necessary to clarify that the physical potential is higher where the flow array has many jets united by one vector and group bonds. Therefore, it is necessary to unite the interests of the multitude and consolidate everything under the common interests of the collective farm.
    2. Mcar
      Mcar 21 November 2019 15: 52
      +6
      Quote: Gost2012
      The state system of the USSR was ineffective; it could not develop and compete with the West.

      Do you self-hypnosis? So for this it is better to retire to the pantry.

      Socialism compared with capitalism is progress, it is a step forward. Moreover, along an unknown, unpopulated trail. A famous chef does not always have the first pancake, so he made those pancakes with a million. And here is new, never done by anyone. If you were kicked out of school for poorly drawn hooks and sticks in the first grade, you couldn’t even meditate publicly.

      But apparently, you still didn’t study at school, or you didn’t study at school. Or maybe they just didn’t study at school. You don’t know about where the Great Patriotic War ended ... What country, what system won the space race do not know ... Which country, what system all progressive mankind was oriented to ...

      Well, at least from something start to form. Well, so as not to go far:
      https://topwar.ru/51260-o-fundamentalnom-razlichii-mezhdu-sssr-i-rossiey-ili-chto-konkretno-poteryali-sovetskie-lyudi.html
      1. Gost2012
        Gost2012 21 November 2019 16: 50
        +1
        We omit the moments about education.
        There is no objection to war and space - the war was won and the first flew into space (and the race, by the way, is not over at all), but the country collapsed for cola, chewing gum and jeans. I specifically wrote about the PRC - their growth became possible when they quickly corrected their worldview and became quite a market state under the leadership of the Communist Party.
        Any achievements in systems similar to the former in the USSR are possible only with closed borders and strong state pressure. In other words, while they fired and planted for not fulfilling the plan, it was somehow fulfilled. As soon as the cult was exposed and ceased to shoot, they went into stagnation and recession.
        Just in case, I’m not at all a supporter of the free market and all kinds of liberal ideas, but the main reasons for the fall of the USSR are clear to me, and this is not just about Viskuly.
        1. Mcar
          Mcar 21 November 2019 17: 12
          +2
          Quote: Gost2012
          I specifically wrote about the PRC - their growth became possible when they quickly corrected their worldview and became quite themselves market state under the control of the Communist Party.

          There was more market in the USSR than now.

          It turns out that you know about 118 thousand artels closed by Khrushchev. But the market was larger even in the 70-80s. It’s full of examples when some people went to the village, gave everyone who wanted seeds (onions, for example), talked at what price they would buy in the fall, and in the fall they arrived, weighed bags with onions directly by car, and still settled with people without asking passport, SNILS and other crap. I'm not saying that anyone could take the excess from the garden / yard / compound and sell it on the market, without - oh, horror! - a health book, and generally without any documents.

          Quote: Gost2012
          Any achievements in systems similar to the former in the USSR are possible only with closed borders and strong state pressure.

          Open the borders - foreigners will sweep everything out like a vacuum cleaner. Socialism is not about profit, but about people. That's why everything was cheap. Do not you remember how everything was exported when the borders were opened?

          As an illustration of this moment, a short story by N. Platoshkin about the reasons for the construction of the Berlin Wall:


          Quote: Gost2012
          In other words, while they fired and planted for not fulfilling the plan, it was somehow fulfilled.

          Do not lie. They didn’t shoot and didn’t plant them for not fulfilling the plan.

          Severely punished for sabotage, sloppiness and deliberate wrecking.

          Quote: Gost2012
          Just in case, I’m not at all a supporter of the free market and all kinds of liberal ideas, but the main reasons for the fall of the USSR are clear to me, and this is not just about Viskuly.

          So why did you sprinkle such a "masterpiece" above?
          1. Karen
            Karen 21 November 2019 17: 29
            0
            Quote: McAr
            Quote: Gost2012
            In other words, while they fired and planted for not fulfilling the plan, it was somehow fulfilled.

            Do not lie. They didn’t shoot and didn’t plant them for not fulfilling the plan.

            Severely punished for sabotage, sloppiness and deliberate wrecking.

            Those enterprises whose workers tried to reduce the waste of the production were severely punished with the ruble; at the same time, they could not give out the "planned" waste of the production ... Wildness inherent in the economy ...
            1. Mcar
              Mcar 21 November 2019 17: 36
              0
              Quote: Karen
              The wildness inherent in the economy ...

              Khrushchev and Co. Before Khrushchev’s perestroika, everything was very, very different in the country's economy. Like that:
              http://svoy-put.ru/ekonomika/stalin-iv1458853645/metod-povesheniia-effektivnosti-truda-mpe-v-stolinskoi-ekonomike

              Since then, when profit was made the main criterion for efficiency, the efficiently tuned mechanism of the economy was peddling. As a result, annual price reductions gave way to periodic price increases.
            2. Igorpl
              Igorpl 22 November 2019 06: 18
              +1
              It was. Fishmeal plan. I had to let the whole fish out. I had to make halibut heads by cutting the tail. Some leaders do not hurt to better study what they lead.
      2. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 21 November 2019 21: 03
        0
        Quote: McAr
        Socialism compared with capitalism is progress, it is a step forward. Moreover, along an unknown, unpopulated trail. A famous chef does not always have the first pancake, so he made those pancakes with a million. And here is the new, never done by anyone

        Um ... really, really:

        Quote: McAr
        Do you self-hypnosis? So for this it’s better to retire to the pantry

        It's time, it's time for you in the pantry. According to your own recipe.

        Quote: McAr
        You all the same, either did not study at school, or did not study at school. Or maybe they just didn’t study at school

        A troll with a bias in Marxism-Leninism is five ... and someone puts pluses, it's cool good

        Quote: McAr
        What kind of country, what kind of system did all progressive humanity orient themselves do not know ...

        Yeah. And which was not oriented (the majority, to the campaign) is not progressive. A-priory.

        Makar, have you heard the word "scribe"? It's about you, how well it fits yes
        1. Mcar
          Mcar 21 November 2019 21: 19
          +1
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          Makar, have you heard the word "scribe"? It's about you, how well it fits

          Speaking of others, we are talking about ourselves.

          COUNTER, ah, husband. A person who reads a lot, but is familiar with everything superficially, mechanically and uncritically assimilating read. Explanatory Dictionary Ozhegova.

          I have no idols, no authorities. Truth is dearer than any friend, let him be at least Socrates, even Plato. And here are some who really absorb any nonsense without any criticism. The general would tell them that once upon a time there was an Australian-Mexican yoke in Russia, they would be under a visor and, well, broadcast like a refueling tape recorder. Only low-low!
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 21 November 2019 21: 32
            -3
            Quote: McAr
            A man ... familiar with everything superficially, mechanically and uncritically assimilating what he read

            This is about you.

            Quote: McAr
            I have no idols, no authorities

            In vain. For the weak development of their own apparatus of cognition and thinking - (at least) authorities would definitely not hurt you wink

            Quote: McAr
            And here are some who really learn without any criticism any nonsense

            This is again about you. For better assimilation by you, the nonsense should be densely seasoned with ML sauce.
  11. Pavel57
    Pavel57 21 November 2019 17: 20
    +1
    Big is seen at a distance.
  12. The comment was deleted.
    1. Eugene (Eugene)
      Eugene (Eugene) 21 November 2019 18: 16
      +1
      To get rid of the infection (viruses), modern politicians and officials need to check the history of their families, pedigree, especially - this is the "national component of their ties", as well as information about the addresses of residence of their relatives, the contacts of children abroad and not only, their participation in supposedly "charitable foundations", whether they have special (what) relations with representatives of the Vatican, special services, especially with foreign retirees in charge of foreign PMCs, and PMCs in Russia. Especially checking connections with representatives of hydrocarbon production companies, media communications (especially liberal media, as well as with protégés of state TV channels), checking ties with directors of private security companies (especially communications of directors with structures of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, etc.).
      And many other checks ...
  13. 1536
    1536 21 November 2019 18: 55
    +1
    What we have - we do not store, having lost - weep. An old Russian proverb, and as if, when she was born, they thought that with one click of the mouse it was possible to cancel the performed action. Alas, we had to first remember: “Measure seven times, cut once.” And yet time goes forward, we are changing with it. You cannot live in the past all the time and regret it in the present.
  14. Procopius Nesterov
    Procopius Nesterov 21 November 2019 19: 05
    -3
    100 million Asians in Central Asia, plus 40 million Ukrainians. It was already hard for the Russian Vanka to feed, they multiplied faster than Vanka managed to grow food and meat, produced goods.
    So the collapse was inevitable. The Russian national identity wanted the destruction of this Russophobic state, squeezing the juice out of it.
    1. Ali Kokand
      Ali Kokand 21 November 2019 21: 35
      +3
      In 1991, the entire population of the SA was about 47-48 million people (including 20% ​​of Russian speakers). I am happy for independence, but sometimes questions arise. After such titanic efforts and losses to conquer Turkestan and industrialize the region, how simply to take it and just leave. At one time, several tens of thousands of railway workers of the Bolsheviks were able to defend Turkestan. It was they who created and defended Soviet power in the region. It was not easy, but they could. And in 1991, everyone left everything and left. Not otherwise God's providence.
    2. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 21 November 2019 23: 10
      0
      There are no 100 million Asians in Central Asia now. Now about 60 million people in Central Asia. Ukrainians both then and now bred no better than Russians.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 22 November 2019 21: 01
        -5
        And they did abortions in the RSFSR for 3-4 million every year - with a bright future, this phenomenon does not grow together.
      2. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 22 November 2019 22: 23
        -1
        It is a fact. Why put a minus?
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 22 November 2019 22: 28
          +2
          Quote: Sergej1972
          It is a fact. Why put a minus?

          Spit. Saliva.

          Minus corrected. Recently "demoted", but - how can I request
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 22 November 2019 22: 34
            +2
            Thank. And so, I just gave factual, reference material.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 22 November 2019 22: 37
              0
              Quote: Sergej1972
              I just gave factual reference material

              Friday, evening ... maybe just someone got into the wrong button.

              Although - and inadequate here, too, enough laughing
  15. nikvic46
    nikvic46 21 November 2019 19: 35
    +4
    What is the first thing a person does not accept? This is a lie and hypocrisy. Lies about our past. They often talk about the mistakes of Soviet leaders. But not in order to learn from these mistakes, but in order to show how everything was bad before. If there was enough hypocrisy before, it has now tripled. We are told that there is no ideology in the country. Even the homeless has its own ideology. .And here the call for universal enrichment is the main platform of ideology. The person is not rich, it means he did not take place. Often a wealthy person, having forgotten himself, talks about such financial freaks that inevitably comes the thought “you would be imprisoned even in the wildest state. in the head "Don't you confuse your own wool with the state one."
  16. onix757
    onix757 21 November 2019 19: 47
    +2
    "Russia is not the Soviet Union" perhaps that says it all. Throw a wedge everywhere.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 November 2019 21: 02
      -6
      And it’s good that Russia is not the USSR.
  17. Slavutich
    Slavutich 21 November 2019 20: 46
    +4
    The spies are there, the spies are here, without them you can neither get up nor sit down
  18. Squelcher
    Squelcher 21 November 2019 20: 49
    0
    Quote: demo
    And he, who worked from 6.00 to 20.00 with one day off for seventeen consecutive years, failed to understand where white and black.

    And why is this not slave labor? Believing in a bright future, coffin health, so that in Africa a cannibal who declared himself a communist would receive a weapon, or did the "brothers" trampled our land in an embrace with the Nazis have a developed economy and were a showcase of the USSR?
  19. 7,62x54
    7,62x54 21 November 2019 21: 49
    +3
    Traitors, right. Betrayed the country. Betrayed the oath. Betrayed the people.
  20. Radikal
    Radikal 21 November 2019 22: 47
    +3
    Quote: Botanologist
    Quote: McAr
    and these people could be counted on the fingers,


    what was this country that 20 dissidents ruined request

    And where did you get that ruined the Union of 20 dissidents? Have you believed the American? So he could also drag the Martians, so as not to mention the real culprits (agents of influence) from among the top leadership of the USSR .... sad
    1. Alekcandr Sokolenko
      Alekcandr Sokolenko 19 December 2019 16: 41
      +1
      It is quite and obvious! -The effect of a "lame duck" leading the enemy away from the nest, but I think it will be salted, the time will come, no one will regret the "Moor", if only "does his job" and the time is ripe for a change of repertoire-people need to change the spectacle more often, if not opportunities to help with popcorn.
  21. Good_Anonymous
    Good_Anonymous 22 November 2019 01: 06
    -4
    The then Minister of Energy said to our delegation when we entered his office: "Why did you come to me, traitors ?!"


    "Oh, these fairy tales, oh, these storytellers" (c)
    1. Alekcandr Sokolenko
      Alekcandr Sokolenko 19 December 2019 16: 37
      0
      Even if he said this (it may well be) but what he meant is another question, I think that he did not mean the level of development of the country, but the mobilization and monopoly nature of power, it is worth presenting a genius in such a System (Marcus Aurelius), and if unicellular dolbonauts, hto them the Doctor? -exchange the second country of the world for sneakers? -non-commentary ... and now they are treated with tonsils for any reason and necessarily through the anus, an interesting method .... not only did not help the tonsils, but also hemorrhoids escalated.
  22. Ilya Zaitsev
    Ilya Zaitsev 22 November 2019 05: 42
    +1
    The Soviet Union was built on lies and violence, no matter how subversive actions are carried out, if the system is firmly on its feet and the vast majority believe and respect it, no dissidents and democrats can influence its existence.
    Gorbachev and Yeltsin are the children of their country, of their time, of the people and of its "elite", which brought them to power, just like Putin himself. The rulers did not fall to us from Mars)
    And the effectiveness and confidence of this social model - DPRK - those who want to live in the "most developed and happiest, please go, live, threaten America and world capitalism from the height of the Socialist superiority of economics and politics!))
    In general, when you are specifically trying to accuse someone, the question is, where were you !? Your country, it was necessary to rise and break the necks of the enemies who are "falling apart"!
    1. meandr51
      meandr51 22 November 2019 12: 35
      0
      All countries, especially the United States, are built on lies and violence. As for the DPRK, already now there is much better than in the ROK, for example, the communists work less and rest more. And the standard of living of people there is better than in most of the "free and democratic" countries of the region. If the DPRK had the resources of the USSR, then a red flag would already be fluttering over the White House in Washington, and the American people and the peoples of Europe would pay reparations to it for proven guilt in unleashing a cold and hot war.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 22 November 2019 21: 05
        -2
        This begs another question: why is the DPRK not South Korea - economically?
  23. fiberboard
    fiberboard 22 November 2019 07: 25
    +1
    Reptiles specially destroyed
  24. kieferandreas
    kieferandreas 22 November 2019 09: 56
    +2
    who poisoned Stalin? also a Bendera bunch.
    even if he was harsh, but he kept everything in his paws, and it was all the same how far Moscow was afraid and obeyed, only murderers and all legitimate crime needed to be killed just like bullying and so on. etc.
    And then it turned out, all this scum in the 90s licked into the leadership and almost everywhere everything sticks there.
    Putin they sky, nothing will come, they will not so their descendants will pay ALL and ALL.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 November 2019 21: 09
      -4
      The train of reckoning has already left for a long time - and the descendants have nothing to pay for, since there is nothing to present and no one will.
  25. Kaw
    Kaw 22 November 2019 10: 16
    0
    You yourself destroyed the state, which we considered a model of economic and social well-being

    Is this the USSR an example of economic and social well-being?
    1. meandr51
      meandr51 22 November 2019 12: 22
      +4
      This is looking out of Qatar. They compare with India, Afghanistan, Egypt, etc. They understood that a good scientific, industrial and financial base was created in the USSR for further development. As for the social well-being of citizens, it was approximately at the level of Italy. Not so bad.
    2. Alekcandr Sokolenko
      Alekcandr Sokolenko 19 December 2019 16: 29
      0
      True accent: the USSR is an alternative world, murdered and disgraced by the bureaucracy, but only doctrinally, philosophically, as a general humanitarian project of social democracy, but we remember that there was no clear project, but there were improvisations, to the extent of talent and experience (synthesis) and if Lenin could walk by touch, maneuvering, the authority of the creator of the New World allowed him, then those who came to replace them and came not from the barricades, but from the Apparatus- (the Bureau already felt for its Idol) (Spider) slept for a day, and at night crawling out of the dusty corner and kneading the dry hands of the arthropod and chelicera, in anticipation of a pleasant dinner, tormented the country: people work during the day, and knowing the habits of the Spider, they will not sleep at night either. he can pull on the tightened Net over the country, at any very inconvenient time, and God forbid you will sleeplessly scribble that if you used to die of nervous exhaustion. Maybe for the usurper and the emperor, an impostor (from rags), this is normal, but what does socialism have to do with it?
  26. Greg l
    Greg l 22 November 2019 10: 26
    0
    Traitors, Judas at all times lacked in Russia. And now bulk and others like them are sleeping and see how to ruin the country. You need to shoot them
    1. Alekcandr Sokolenko
      Alekcandr Sokolenko 19 December 2019 16: 17
      0
      This "bulk" leaked the country to the Adversary for a nickel? -What is this and why I don't know them?
  27. Nick Russ
    Nick Russ 22 November 2019 11: 25
    +2
    The collapse of the empire began much earlier than 1991. Even Lenin divided the Russian Empire into republics, thereby violating the unity of the country.
    And the whole system of the USSR was built in such a way that it was held together by only one factor --- the ruling and the only party of the CPSU. After the internal crisis and the collapse of the CPSU, the country also could not fall apart. there was no more glue.
    And the kings on the ground always think only of their own good, and not of the good of the people and dream of becoming full-fledged kings. With the goal of not returning to unity, in the former republics, cheap nationalism is being fueled in its most extreme forms, which, incidentally, is directly opposed to the true interests of the peoples themselves.
    Well, and it is quite possible that the collapse of the empire is not over, because. and now Russia is divided into republics and local "elites" dream of becoming tsars and only wait for the weakening of the central government.
    And external factors help, of course, but they are not decisive.
    1. Alekcandr Sokolenko
      Alekcandr Sokolenko 19 December 2019 16: 10
      0
      And the empire was saved by the provinces? -Are you a comrade in Theme? -And the rest of the empires also destroyed the Bolsheviks? -And the chapel too-Lenin? -The empire was smashed by people born of the monarchy and Orthodoxy, but the Soviet Union is not quite, there were many Soviet ones, but this says that superficial judgments are ridiculous and naive.
    2. Alekcandr Sokolenko
      Alekcandr Sokolenko 19 December 2019 16: 16
      0
      Conceptually true: the tiger is not to blame that the pig is tasty, but the topic is not very simple, worthy of attention ..
  28. meandr51
    meandr51 22 November 2019 12: 10
    +4
    The USSR itself collapsed. He spawned a management system that made it profitable to break it down and profit from it. The control system was allowed to live its own life, and she quickly realized that the existing scheme of production and distribution was disadvantageous to her. After that, this SU began to work purposefully for the collapse of the country and the change of ideology. Such processes in the USSR were earlier, but earlier in the elite there were people who did not consider the main benefit in life. They promptly excised emerging cancerous tumors.
    This could not last forever because of the extinction of passionarity. The elite has disintegrated almost completely spiritually and professionally. The lack of regular cleanings did not benefit her. There was a chance to make restructuring according to the Chinese principle, including the communist "nomenclature" in the capitalist class, but in the USSR it was more difficult than in China due to the opposition of the West, while the West helped China to rebuild itself as a world assembly shop and provided sales markets. The Soviet elite would have to struggle on the brink of the possible to compete with China. She absolutely did not want to fight or work at all. What for? So she destroyed almost everything.
    But the West made a mistake by not accepting the Soviet elite into its circle and letting it know that he wrote it off and not live for long. Part of the elite has stirred and is trying to create a protective shell. Another, comprador unit, prevents her from doing this. Nobody knows who wins.
  29. NordOst16
    NordOst16 22 November 2019 12: 23
    +1
    And so it took the leadership began to destroy the whole country day and night. The question is where were the real patriots of their country all this time (as many here assure) and can they be called inaction a betrayal?
    A system that is well adapted to the conditions in which it exists cannot fall apart on its own. The collapse was caused by both economic (not the highest labor efficiency) and social (lagging living standards of Soviet citizens from the inhabitants of Western Europe and the USA), and purely ideological, citizens stopped believing in the bright tomorrow and wanted good now. The tops could not, but the lower classes did not want.
    Well, a perfectly adapted system cannot fall apart, and if, as many say here, the Soviet Union has collapsed the party nomenclature, then this management system is worthless, which does not have the ability to get rid of destructive elements at the top and bring people to power who can strengthen and develop the country .
    1. Slavs
      Slavs 22 November 2019 12: 59
      +1
      Quote: NordOst16
      It’s worthless to this management system, which does not have the ability to get rid of the destructive elements at the top and bring to power people who can strengthen and develop the country.

      I completely agree. But, when exactly this happened, later it was called repression. Do you understand what period of our history I’m talking about? Now, perhaps, the same thing needs to be done, only Joseph Vissarionovich has long been gone.
      1. NordOst16
        NordOst16 22 November 2019 21: 35
        +2
        This is also not an option, because repressions are thrown out of the system of the most proactive (especially, as in that period, the absence of an independent judicial branch of power), which subsequently leads to the fact that only the most quiet and unselected remain in the system. And these are not able to change the country. Everyone is waiting for a strong hand that will come to power and restore order, as for me, this indicates a total reluctance of these people to do something with their own hands.
        If we ourselves do not do this, then they will do it for us and not taking into account our interests.
        1. Slavs
          Slavs 23 November 2019 12: 29
          +1
          Quote: NordOst16
          repressions are thrown out of the system of the most initiative (especially, as in that period, the absence of an independent judicial branch of power), which subsequently leads to the fact that only the most silent and

          I do not agree. They were cleaned for various reasons, but also if they could not cope with the tasks, so it was necessary to gnaw the results with their teeth, and to move to the Gulag under pain.
          And an independent judiciary is a myth. She will always depend on someone, either on power or on money. People are selfish.
          In principle, I understand what you want to say, but this is impossible in a society where everyone thinks only of himself. State thinking is not in fashion today, the main thing is to snatch.
          1. NordOst16
            NordOst16 23 November 2019 13: 35
            +1
            Quote: Slavs
            They were cleaned for various reasons, but also if they could not cope with the tasks, so it was necessary to gnaw the teeth with their teeth, and to move to the Gulag under pain

            Unfortunately, there are a lot of villages for purely political reasons or as a result of undercover games, which is extremely dangerous for the future of the country. For in this way competition is destroyed, and this leads to very sad results in the end (which happened).

            Quote: Slavs
            And an independent judiciary is a myth. She will always depend on someone, either on power or on money. People are selfish.

            Undoubtedly, if different branches of power will be controlled by competing groups (and there will be competition within them), then one group will not be able to obtain absolute power in the state.

            Quote: Slavs
            In principle, I understand what you want to say, but this is impossible in a society where everyone thinks only of himself. State thinking is not in fashion today, the main thing is to snatch.

            Well, what is state thinking? Any system, ideally, should ensure the interests of the majority of the population and at the same time there should be no jumps both towards a strong increase in state control over citizens (when the state does not protect the interests of citizens, but vice versa), and towards ensuring the interests of minorities at the expense of the majority (what is happening now). We need to find a balance and this will be a model of an ideal (compromise) state.

            Well, and, perhaps, the desire to snatch as much as possible appeared due to the fact that our citizens have experienced extremely powerful shocks in a relatively short time (in one century) and are now trying to accumulate more "fat" at any cost in order to prepare for the future shock. It seems to me that this behavior will come to naught (well, or change) over time, if the Russian Federation again does not suffer powerful shocks. If the government can ensure a relatively calm situation, then this desire will disappear over time (to collect more just in case). I still hope that over time we will all come to the point that we will begin to treat each other more respectfully and then again we will be able to offer the world a certain new model that other countries will be drawn to.
            1. Slavs
              Slavs 24 November 2019 14: 07
              0
              Quote: NordOst16
              if different branches of power will be controlled by competing groups (and there will be competition within them), then one group will not be able to obtain absolute power in the state.

              I am afraid that in this case everything will turn into a struggle for influence, and the interests of the state will recede into the background. Even if we drop the family-clan system we have now.
              Everything will be possible when the interests of the state are put above personal, and at all levels of society. Everyone. This is a utopia, unfortunately ... Today.

              Quote: NordOst16
              the desire to snatch as much as possible appeared due to the fact that our citizens have experienced extremely powerful shocks in a relatively short time (in one century) and are now trying to accumulate more "fat" at any cost in order to prepare for a future shock

              You know, after the Second World War they built factories and raised the virgin soil, and my old men never said that they wanted to grab something ... Although they didn’t finish, they didn’t get enough, and the pants were one for three. I am afraid that hard times are not an excuse for modern society.
              Quote: NordOst16
              I still hope that over time we will all come to the point that we will begin to respect each other more respectfully.

              So do I. But the influence of Western culture, which brought only the worst of what they have here, will for a long time interfere with the recovery of society.
              I like the way you think, in general I agree, you and I disagree on the nuances.
              I would like everything to go according to your scenario, but I'm afraid everything will be much more complicated, and it would be nice if it didn’t lead to another big confusion.
              1. NordOst16
                NordOst16 24 November 2019 16: 27
                +1
                Quote: Slavs
                I am afraid that in this case everything will turn into a struggle for influence, and the interests of the state will recede into the background.

                Perhaps part of the resources will be spent on the struggle, but maybe thanks to this it will be possible to ensure competition and rotation of power. Of course, civil society should be much more active. It is necessary to create a system of balances when each element of the system could not completely destroy the other and the stronger it becomes, the more difficult it would be for him to live.

                Quote: Slavs
                But the influence of Western culture, which brought here only the worst of what they have, will for a long time interfere with the recovery of society.

                On the other hand, for a long time, the cultural and technological development of Russia was associated with Europe. We must learn to separate the grain from the tares.
  30. Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 22 November 2019 13: 01
    0
    The prerequisites for the collapse were created even under Khrushchev, and such figures as Khrushchev and Malenkov were looked at by the aging Stalin in their circle. Beria was overloaded with economic problems, one atomic project was worth it, but he also oversaw the coal industry and railways, safety issues were also under his jurisdiction. Khrushchev managed to maintain friendly relations with him.
  31. Flatter
    Flatter 22 November 2019 13: 25
    0
    The victories are won by the soldiers, and the commanders are defeated. It happened with the USSR, which was destroyed by the degenerate party nomenclature. The Katars was not mistaken with the address.
  32. YaRVit-161-RnD
    YaRVit-161-RnD 22 November 2019 14: 00
    0
    Quote: Karen
    Quote: Tatiana
    But all of them were not just non-Russian, but for some reason, all as one Jews!

    And why is it in him to talk about the fact that everyone already knows? :)

    There is a mono-national sect called "Chabad Lubavich", which hates Russia, us Russians, and in general all Christians (especially Orthodox) and which does everything in order to destroy most of the rest of the peoples, and make those few who remain their own gratuitous slaves !!!
    For the time being, they mask their activities that are disgusting for God and people and wait for the moment when they will not need to "encrypt", and those who openly expose them, they, together with the families of these exposers, try to liquidate them as quickly and quietly as possible! !!
    1. nikvic46
      nikvic46 25 November 2019 07: 18
      0
      Ruslan. We don’t have to mix everyone in one pile. Our misfortune is in the other. We have not learned to respect our past. Nobody wants to dive at that time. In order not to stain expensive shoes. Cedmy recently voiced what we do not want to pronounce. France from Napoleon received a lot of victims. And all the French know about it. But nonetheless they honor their past. There will be no future without the past.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. Old Orc
    Old Orc 22 November 2019 15: 22
    0
    This interview complements very well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtgXRgHJoTM watch everything but especially fully from 43 minutes
  35. Mikhail Shipkov
    Mikhail Shipkov 22 November 2019 16: 51
    +2
    The USSR legally exists today. The masses tried to split it from the moment the Rothschild arrived in Moscow during the nuclear crisis. But it didn’t work out. In a 1991 referendum, the people voted to preserve the Union. Then there was an armed seizure of power, which continues to this day. A lawsuit has recently been filed against Putin at the Hague Tribunal for misappropriation of power and plunder of the country ... The movement for the revival of the USSR is gaining momentum, do not stay on the sidelines.
    1. Nick Russ
      Nick Russ 22 November 2019 17: 27
      0
      Who are the judges? Enemies of Russia? In my opinion this is called betrayal.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 November 2019 21: 14
      -3
      "Putin was recently sued at the Hague Tribunal for misappropriation of power and plundering the country ... The movement for the revival of the USSR is gaining momentum, do not stay away." What is there to give out - Fabulous idiots.
    3. Minato2020
      Minato2020 23 November 2019 01: 34
      +5
      Quote: Mikhail Shipkov
      The USSR legally exists today. The masses have tried to split it since the arrival of the Rothschild in Moscow during the nuclear crisis ...
      ... The movement for the revival of the USSR is gaining momentum, do not stay away.


      David Rockefeller's visit to the USSR was in 1968. According to unverified rumors after this trip, Rockefeller gathered his own and allegedly stated:
      "Stalin died in Russia, and these fools put on his boots and drowned in them. They are nothing of themselves, there are no strong leaders in Russia."

      PS Will there be a revival of the USSR, such as the USSR-2?

      Some who lived in the USSR do not want to return to the Union with Georgia
      Some who lived in the USSR do not want to return to the Union with Azerbaijan
      Some who lived in the USSR do not want to return to the Union with Armenia
      Some who lived in the USSR do not want to return to the Union with Uzbekistan
      Some who lived in the USSR do not want to return to the Union with Tajikistan
      Some who lived in the USSR do not want to return to the Union with the Baltic
      Some who lived in the USSR do not want to return to the Union with Moldova
      Some who lived in the USSR do not want to return to the Union with Ukraine .....

      Some living now do not want to return to the Union with Russia ...
      -------------------------------------
      In fact, USSR-2, it simply will never happen again.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 23 November 2019 12: 47
        -4
        About the USSR 2 - this is nonsense of crazy people, most likely there will be a unification of Belarus and Russia in the distant future, but that's all - people have changed and everything has changed.
  36. petrakimov
    petrakimov 22 November 2019 17: 38
    +5
    Whatever they say about the superficial and deep processes that led to the collapse of the USSR, in all honesty, admit that none of us took to the streets with a demand to save the country, no one even thought to fulfill their Solemn Pioneer Promise or the Military Oath, in which we were words about defending the cause of Lenin and the CPSU, the Fatherland and the USSR. If none of us tried to fulfill our oath to protect our country from a bunch of destroyers of the country, then what difference does it make in what the real reason for the collapse of the country is ?! The truth is that we all stood silently on the sidelines and made no attempt to stop the destruction of the country. In Moscow, up to 100 thousand citizens took to the streets against the Emergency Committee and in support of Yeltsin. About 0.9% of the Moscow population, if I'm not mistaken. They probably wanted to destroy the USSR and Yeltsin became their leader. They have realized their desire by active actions and they have nothing to blame. And here we are? Were against it, but "to myself". Indifference is the most terrible thing that can surround us. And non-resistance to Evil is a way to multiply it. We, those who curse the destroyers of the USSR, destroyed it ourselves.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 November 2019 21: 16
      -2
      From the beginning, apathy sets in, and already indifference follows.
    2. Karen
      Karen 23 November 2019 09: 24
      +2
      Quote: petrakimov
      In Moscow, up to 100 thousand citizens took to the streets against the GKChP and in support of Yeltsin. About 0.9% of the population of Moscow, if not mistaken. They probably wanted to destroy the USSR and Yeltsin became their leader. They realized their desire through active actions and there is nothing to blame them for. And here we are?

      I was in Moscow in the days of the State Emergency Committee ... From my acquaintances that they came out to protest against the commies (their expression then) - there were only Jews and high social status ... More informed acquaintances (also Jews) then told us, after clarifying with their in France, that it’s just a clowning, and the circus will leave in a few days ...
      ____
      Under the tank, they also climbed theirs, Krichevsky ...
      1. Alekcandr Sokolenko
        Alekcandr Sokolenko 19 December 2019 15: 49
        0
        It should be noted that he crawled under the tank without pathos, he did not look like Matrosov, it seemed like I really wanted to see: how will this circus end and whom will Karabas Barabas pull out of the "copier bag" to "reign" in Russia (the beholder)?
    3. Alekcandr Sokolenko
      Alekcandr Sokolenko 19 December 2019 15: 57
      0
      You would be right if a civil conflict broke out at the top (at least Donbass), and we did not support anyone, we were extras, but the point is that the traitors are all at the top (conflict-fake-news), and if there are no "eyes" of the people, but this is elitism, there are no mobilizing organizations (partisanship, the party is one and that is a traitor), there is no financial support, there is no weapon, there is no media - nothing of what makes the people a subject of history. When Hitler took Stalin's Adam's apple and eggs - immediately "brothers and sisters!" - bloodthirsty and did not have time to cool the barrels of guns and the earth on the graves of those killed in the Great War, and he set to work for his favorite: to kill "brothers and sisters!" - no need already, without elitism , without brains and money, people are statisticians.
      1. Alekcandr Sokolenko
        Alekcandr Sokolenko 19 December 2019 16: 03
        0
        Yes, and the referendum on the Union is not a legal fact? -Who is the source of power? -Why against the people's and the communist party the people should only with a cudgel-is it really impossible to talk? -About the Constitution and the oath did not remember, all the institutions of immunity were stitched by agents of the West and collaborators , here is their flag and flutters over the Kremlin. Vlasov promised the Germans: "You will see my flag over the Kremlin!" - the man said, the man did.
  37. ilik54
    ilik54 22 November 2019 22: 42
    -2
    The system that the Bolshevik-Leninists created was not viable after the revolution — and so it collapsed.
    1. Alekcandr Sokolenko
      Alekcandr Sokolenko 19 December 2019 15: 45
      0
      No Brother, it won’t work — decipher the System — are you and my children and grandchildren also, and are they not viable? -If there is a mess in my House (Spitak), I change the designs and strengthen the foundation, and not set the house on fire. the real Master even a booth in a hurricane withstands, and among dolonavts and reinforced concrete it carries away with floods.
      1. ilik54
        ilik54 25 December 2019 07: 37
        0
        Do not confuse the concept! A system is a system, and man is a man. Capitalism - it rots, rots and does not rot in any way, which means that the system is perfect. Practice is the criterion of truth.
  38. militarist63
    militarist63 23 November 2019 00: 26
    0
    Yeah! The then Minister of Energy of Qatar is simply the smartest person! good
    1. Karen
      Karen 23 November 2019 10: 18
      +1
      Quote: militarist63
      Yeah! The then Minister of Energy of Qatar is simply the smartest person! good

      Yes, there were many smart people in their posts ... In the 92nd, their messengers came from those parts ... They asked us to sell our water to them, for which we were ready to lay a special water supply.
      ______
      Today, the Persians want to save their lake with Georgian water ...
  39. Vitvas
    Vitvas 24 November 2019 19: 36
    0
    CCCP - Destroyed. This was facilitated by the degeneration of the leading members of the CPSU according to the scheme: Let the people work hard for the idea, and the leaders personally enrich themselves under the guise of ideas. Moreover, the state’s inept criminal leadership, especially since Khrushchev’s time. This created the conditions for the betrayal and collapse of the USSR by Gorbachev, but not only to them. Not one of the union republics has preserved the socialist system. All secretaries became known as presidents.
    1. Alekcandr Sokolenko
      Alekcandr Sokolenko 21 December 2019 16: 25
      0
      The zoo is not socialism, but a way of artificially entertaining viewers with samples of supposedly wild nature. Socialism is anti-elitism (equality) is a cult of personality (not to be confused with state status) is a way of a super-efficient economy that ceases to be an instrument of the power of some over others (as in a traditional society: access to resources) -economic freedom is the path to the development of individuality (time) - it is difficult for slaves to develop because the struggle for survival takes a lot of time and effort.
  40. LORD-72
    LORD-72 25 November 2019 13: 55
    0
    World-wide bourgeois could not allow, then 40% of the resources of socialist justice are divided into 2% of the world's population.
  41. Alekcandr Sokolenko
    Alekcandr Sokolenko 19 December 2019 15: 27
    0
    The USSR was killed by its Creator (he did not know what he was building, but a genius knows how to groping: "step forward, three, back!" - but what if the genius died? forward, and sometimes backward, under the same flags, you saw how a time-emasculated flag fluttered over the abandoned village council? - it was red, and then it turned brown, dialectic, brother. Like this: Lenin died, died Architect
    and the foreman of the New World, came: sailors, and Sharikovs and began to "cook" the porridge, throwing spices into the "soup from an ax" from slavery, and from feudalism and from capitalism and, who would have thought, and from socialism: the plan and leftist trepology. The project would be overturned in the "Procrustean bed" of bureaucratic absolutism (if you want to arrange a good funeral home, entrust it to the bureaucracy, this is one kind of business that it does well, hence the "oil painting" .. Yes, it was the Anti-Empire, the chimera of leftist adventurers and kromeshnikov, if the leader was a baobab in Marxism, then what can we say about masters and apprentices.
  42. Alekcandr Sokolenko
    Alekcandr Sokolenko 21 December 2019 10: 40
    0
    Quote: Karen
    Quote: Tatiana
    But all of them were not just non-Russian, but for some reason, all as one Jews!

    And why is it in him to talk about the fact that everyone already knows? :)

    Xenophobia is a bad form, it reminds one of the assertion that all Jews (albeit scoundrels) are geniuses, and all Russians, albeit good fellows, are fools? - even Jews disagree with this, this is not the level of the people of Pushkin and Lomonosov. There will be no Jews and sho? -The holy place doesn’t exist empty, the Nanai will take it and again someone will be busy with subversive work, and where were the Russians? -Do not want to study and study? -To him the Doctor? Ethnicities were born and died (how people) - passionarity burns out and the wreckage of empires is assimilated by barbarians (ethnic groups on the rise, strong immunity, they are not afraid of AIDS, from which the USSR died).
  43. Alekcandr Sokolenko
    Alekcandr Sokolenko 21 December 2019 11: 00
    0
    Quote: Tatiana
    Quote: Karen
    Quote: Tatiana
    But all of them were not just non-Russian, but for some reason, all as one Jews!
    And why is it in him to talk about the fact that everyone already knows? :)

    And then, so that in the history of the Russian and Jewish question - during the formation of Soviet power and its national consequences - no one would venture to go deeper. Failing to understand the cause-effect relationship of the geopolitical collapse of Russia - a country as such - working Russians risk stepping on the same rake.
    Meanwhile, in the Houston and Harvard projects of the United States, this is precisely what is included - the geopolitical disappearance from the world map of ANY Russia: feudal, bourgeois, socialist - ANY!

    -
    Here is an example (the absence of confusion in the text) and reflections on the fact that the reasons for the emergence of the USSR and its death are in politics, but meanwhile, this is not so because the USSR is a Subjective project (from the world of necessity to the world of freedom, algorithm) -stroke dependent from the presence in the process of the Architect of the New World, in opposition to the traditional elite, in which development was built by the elites (masters of the slave owners, the world eaters), they designed and carried out existence with the hands of peoples, maintaining their domination (dominance) and, if possible, with the transfer of bio-genetics to the next generations , but God is not a fraudulent "and nature rests on the children of gentlemen, although they make themselves child prodigies, more often it comes out just Ham in a cube, debauchery and vulgarity, and passionarity does not slumber, it is born and protests against the state of affairs, even to the music and love songs - the Beatles). So what am I talking about? - everything is much deeper than xenophobia and subversive activities of the world eaters. Ham, too, wants not so much equality and justice as - "go into People!" - and they are People gd e? -they are at the top, below are the vile estates, fuckers, such as Zelensky, etc. "microns" with a screen made of silikon.
  44. Alekcandr Sokolenko
    Alekcandr Sokolenko 21 December 2019 16: 32
    0
    Quote: Nicholas Chupin
    when the USSR collapsed, where there was a state security committee. This is its direct responsibility. sat there

    He opened the knight, and there, inside the sawdust, oh and they are fooling our brother, oh-they are fooling.
  45. Alekcandr Sokolenko
    Alekcandr Sokolenko 21 December 2019 16: 41
    0
    Quote: Chaldon48
    The prerequisites for the collapse were created even under Khrushchev, and such figures as Khrushchev and Malenkov were looked at by the aging Stalin in their circle. Beria was overloaded with economic problems, one atomic project was worth it, but he also oversaw the coal industry and railways, safety issues were also under his jurisdiction. Khrushchev managed to maintain friendly relations with him.



    -Lavrenty was smarter than Stalin, calculating and provoking his reactions, he put things in such a way that Stalin was forced to drag out time with him (there was no one to replace him and the lack of time on many important projects, working with science is not for "people's agronomists" and there is no place for risk) and Stalin "reached out" to the point that he himself fell between the teeth of the System, which he considered his own, only she had a different opinion: the Moor did his job? - it's time and honor to know ...