Tank diesel V-2: development and Aberdeen Proving Ground


B-2-34 in Kubinka


Legend time


By the beginning of 1940, the final appearance of the B-2 engine was formed. It was a V-shaped 12-cylinder diesel engine with a cast 4-valve head, power bearing steel studs for greater strength and a centrally located fuel nozzle. Traces of similarities with aviation AN-1 (it was developed at TsIAM) in terms of the configuration of the connecting rod and piston group. In both engines, the pistons were stamped aluminum with the main and trailed connecting rods, and the bearings were made with pouring with lead bronze. On the first B-2 prototypes, the connecting rods were forked and often broke, so it was decided to use trailed connecting rods with a slight divergence in the right and left blocks.


In addition, with the AN-1 tank diesel is related to jet mixing, and is distinguished by dimensionality. In B-2 it is 15/18 (piston stroke / cylinder diameter, cm), and in AN-1 this parameter is 18/20. It is interesting that the dimension 15/18 for a tank diesel was nevertheless taken from another aircraft gasoline engine, the M-100, by V. Ya. Klimov. However, all of the above does not mean that the B-2 was born as an aircraft engine. It was originally a tank engine, which in many ways had to be designed according to the patterns of aircraft engine building, since there was simply no other methodological basis for high-speed diesel engines in the Land of Soviets. And in the 30s, only in aircraft engine building was a sufficiently high level of design and production of such complex equipment. Therefore, Kharkovites had to seek help from the TsIAM design office, as already mentioned B-2: "obstinate horse" of the Soviet tank industry. In addition to the outstanding designer Timofei Chupakhin, Mikhail Petrovich Poddubny made an equally significant contribution to the technological development of production. At KhPZ, he is obliged to develop complex machining operations for crankcase parts, a head, a crankshaft, connecting rods, specific high-speed machining of plain bearings and core burnishing. In his memoirs, the chief designer of TsIAM, Professor, Doctor of Technical Sciences Aleksey Dmitrievich Charomsky writes that the technologist Poddubny often proposed solutions that were much more progressive than those that came to mind to the designers.

Tank diesel V-2: development and Aberdeen Proving Ground

Alexey Dmitrievich Charomsky

I had to give a lot of time to the fight against the gas joint - the diesel was powerful, the copper gaskets simply could not withstand the gigantic pressure. There were even thoughts to reduce power to 400 l. s., while leaving the option of "combat" short-term increase to 500 l. from. However, the military, for obvious reasons, did not understand this idea and the engineers had to develop a special stamped integral aluminum gasket for six cylinder blocks at once. In addition, additional bolts tightening the head along the perimeter were introduced into the design.

In addition to the fact that in the USSR there was practically no experience in the design and construction of “land” high-speed diesel engines, the country did not have a basis for the development of fuel pumps. On the initial prototypes of the DB-2 (the predecessor of B-2) there were two Bosch 6-plunger injection pumps with advance couplings. Later, the cams in the pump were modified, bringing them to the form used in the aviation AN-1. Then the whole structure was redesigned, having already ordered 12-plunger pumps from the Germans. Subsequently, difficulties with the production of a pump of its own design were overcome, but problems with the quality and volume of production of such a critical unit haunted the B-2 throughout the war.

Despite the difficulties with finalizing the motor, in the pre-war period at the Kharkov factory No. 75 they worked on new modifications of the B-2 line. In particular, an 800-strong B-2CH equipped with supercharging from a drive supercharger was developed. Literally a few units of this powerful engine were built, the best of which worked out 190 hours to failure, but spent too much oil and clogged with soot on the piston group. They also developed the 6-cylinder “baby” B-3 with a capacity of 250 l. from. (later it was boosted to 300 hp), which was successfully passed first on the Voroshilovets tractor, and later on the BT-5. But even in the 300-strong version, this engine was rather weak for tracked vehicles of this class, and for some time they refrained from installing on armored vehicles. It was finalized according to the test results and in the B-4 variant it was later put on the light T-50. Ship modifications B-2 / l (left rotation) and B-2 / p (right rotation) were installed in pairs on light naval ships of the Navy since 1940 of the year.

Tar spoons


The impending war forced the leadership of the Soviet Union to force the production of a series of new models of equipment in a series, often to the detriment of workmanship. One can argue for a long time about the appropriateness of such an approach, but the fact remains that by the start of the war, the B-2 was clearly a crude engine requiring changes in design. At the same time, without bringing the engine to mind, the factory workers in Kharkov received new tasks, while spraying resources. So, in March of 1941, the leadership demanded that the 700-strong B-5 for the KV-3 tank be brought to the end and in the shortest possible time, and by the fall of that year, create a giant on 1200 hp! Yes, by then B-2 was already mass-produced, but it constantly required attention and fine-tuning of production processes. But there was neither time, nor resources for this in Kharkov plant No.75. We will not dwell on how it developed история tank diesel after 22 on June 1941 of the year (there will be a separate cycle about this), but we will tell you better about the landmark tests of engines at the Aberdeen Proving Ground in the United States. In the book-monograph by Nikita Melnikov “Tank Industry of the USSR during the Great Patriotic War”, based on the materials of the Russian State Archive of Economics, data are presented that characterize the B-2 from a not very good point.


T-34 at Aberdeen Proving Ground

Recall that two machines, the T-34 and KB-1, were tested from November 1942 of the year to the end of 1943 of the year by specialists from the Aberdeen Proving Ground. It’s worth mentioning right away that tanks were released during one of the most difficult periods of our history, and the fact that they appeared at all testifies to the heroism of millions of Soviet citizens. Nevertheless, the dry technical reports of our then allies indicate that one of the main problems of the B-2 was the air purifier. I quote the book of candidate of historical sciences, senior researcher at the Institute of History and Archeology of the Ural Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences Nikita Nikolayevich Melnikov:
“From the observations made it can be seen that the requirements in our country (that is, the United States) for air purifiers of military vehicles completely prevent the use of a Russian type air purifier. This was confirmed later, after engine failure, when a large amount of dirt appeared inside the engine. ”


The Americans also indicated that the filter has a high resistance, causing “air hunger” in the motor. Now for the cooling system:
“Engine cooling does not meet the requirements of our standards, and if it had not been compensated by the engine design, the engine life would have been significantly reduced.”


Obviously, they meant the possibility of a diesel engine working at low speeds, which somehow protected the engine from overheating. After this, Nikita Melnikov gives a rather controversial statement that it is for these reasons that the main share of the successful operations of the Soviet tank troops falls on the winter period. Say, and temperatures are lower, and there is less dust in the air. The tanks that were sent to the USA were assembled under special control, and even in this case, the T-34 failed due to engine failure already at the 73 hour of the test run. It remains only to guess at what kilometer an ordinary serial tank would stand in the hands of the American military.




Copies of reports from the TsAMO archive of the Russian Federation

However, there is another point of view on these tests expressed by Yuri Pasholok, a well-known expert in the field of tank history. He claims that there was no special assembly of tanks, and the Americans simply did not fill the Pomon filter with oil, because of which, in fact, all the troubles happened. If the Yankees had guessed to fill in the oil and even cleaned the filter in time, then at least they would have achieved 79% air purification. And since 1942 of the year, more advanced Cyclone filters have already been installed on the T-34, providing 99,4% air purification, of course, in working condition. Only Yuri operates with reports from the TsAMO archives of the Russian Federation, and not with the materials of the Russian State Archive of Economics, as was the case with Nikita Melnikov. In any case, you decide which side you are in this story.
Author:
Photos used:
btvt.narod.ru, yuripasholok.livejournal.com, gettyimages.com, img-fotki.yandex.ru
Articles from this series:
B-2: "obstinate horse" of the Soviet tank industry
"Order B". Satisfying the motor hunger of Soviet tanks
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  1. Theodore 22 November 2019 18: 17 New
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    Through hardship to the stars ! All the same, they created it from scratch!
    1. tihonmarine 22 November 2019 18: 52 New
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      Quote: Theodore
      Through hardship to the stars ! All the same, they created it from scratch!

      And no one else could do this until 1945. As well as KV and T-34 also from scratch. Whatever reviews were about our tanks, they broke the ridge of the tank armies of Guderian, Geppner, Goth and Kleist.
      1. Alekseev 23 November 2019 09: 57 New
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        Quote: tihonmarine
        And no one else could do this until 1945.

        A lot of interesting articles in the B-2.
        But ... It would be even more interesting to find out (although many experts know this) what exactly, what technical solutions used in the design of this motor, caused its service for 80 years or more. After all, his close relatives are still widely used in BTT RA,
        I would like to read the opinion of competent persons on this issue. And compare them. wink
        1. volodimer 23 November 2019 21: 01 New
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          "tested from November 1942 to the end of 1943" It is clear that the engine of production in 1942 is an evacuation execution and, even if they were podshaman before sending to Aberdeen, they were not much better than the standard factory ones.
          The fact that V-2 is the progenitor of all domestic tank engine building is a fact.
          "We all grew out of B-2." It should be written like that!
          But, yes, I would like to hear not only how the BD-2 became the V-2, but how the V-2 became the diesel that became the V-2.
          bearings were made with pouring with lead bronze.
          Oh, I would like an explanation, now many are elementary, for that time the processes are incomprehensible and lost.
          "On the first B-2 prototypes, the connecting rods were forked and often broke, so it was decided to use trailed connecting rods with a slight divergence in the right and left blocks."
          Hedgehog, again, I understand that it is difficult to explain to amateurs. I was standing in the kubinka at the original, trying to understand what was here ... There is a classic misubish without brains and all sorts of tricks and everything is clear, but here it is still closer to the classics. Likely, if only once I saw, started ... With boat "progress", so everything immediately fell into place.
          1. Amurets 24 November 2019 10: 34 New
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            Quote: volodimer
            There is a classic misubish without brains and all sorts of tricks and everything is clear, but here it is still closer to the classics. Likely, if only once I saw, started ... With boat "progress", so everything immediately fell into place

            There is a 4-volume "Internal Combustion Engines" edition of the Bauman MVTU, edited by Professor Orlin. 1st and 3rd volume will give an idea of ​​the design of ICE. The 4th volume is about starters, alternators, radiators and other attachments. 2nd volume calculations, ICE theory. I have a publication from the early 70s. About cranks

            1. volodimer 24 November 2019 12: 16 New
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              Thank you hi
      2. NF68 24 November 2019 16: 38 New
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        Quote: tihonmarine
        And no one else could do this until 1945.


        For a number of reasons, they could not / did not consider it necessary to organize the mass production of similar diesel engines. The German diesel engine MV-507 in a deformed version on self-propelled mortars developed 580 hp. For a short time, the power of this engine could be increased to 850 hp.
    2. iouris 22 November 2019 21: 51 New
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      Quote: Theodore
      All the same, they created it from scratch!

      Fedya, "still" is written like this, i.e. through a hyphen. The rules of the Russian language are mandatory even for severe Siberian loggers. These "stupid Americans" were surprised to recognize their designs 10-15 years ago in Soviet technology. But then we know exactly how it happened: intelligence of the Red Army did not eat bread for nothing. But even it was not created from scratch.
    3. Evil Booth 30 November 2019 16: 50 New
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      and where are a bunch of articles repeating from year to year that the panther constantly burned with spontaneous combustion bully or why such a good tiger stopped producing. lol and even better about the complete surprise that the US tanks are useless against the tigers and the panthers about this whole movie shot a rage with a redompit. crying
      Actually, they didn’t manage to change the suspension on T34, but they could not work too well at 18 and 28 tons, which was more important in the conditions of the evacuation of factories, it’s similar to switch completely as planned from T26 to sq, they just didn’t succeed, there were a lot of t34 and sq but there was to be even more. The chassis of the T34, for example, is under armor. and now we look at the Sherman’s suspension, which was done not under the bombs and several years ago not under the conditions of war


      Yes, how is that? it’s spring and on T34 it’s also not without springs, current outside)))))))))))) any woman wrecked it with fragments as needed, and it’s still a suspension from World War I ..... good from n35 Gochkins, sobsno in the photo, in fact, the post-war version is even more vulnerable.
  2. The leader of the Redskins 22 November 2019 18: 36 New
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    Well, if the Yankees did not guess to fill the filter with oil, then what about the eighteen-year-old youths who saw the tank for the first time?
    My grandfather was just such a kid in 1943 m and got into the tower as a gunner. Over a period of just over a year, four cars were replaced. From the latter he was already pulled. A disabled person of the second group at twenty!
    1. lucul 22 November 2019 19: 41 New
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      Well, if the Yankees did not guess to fill the filter with oil, then what about the eighteen-year-old youths who saw the tank for the first time?

      You carefully read - there in the recommendations - to clean and refill the air filter with oil. Pomon EVERY 2 !!!!! hours of engine operation !!!
      1. The leader of the Redskins 22 November 2019 19: 59 New
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        And what do you think was such an opportunity in the field? And the boys only thought about it, how would this watch not whitewash, ?!
        1. lucul 22 November 2019 20: 01 New
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          And what do you think was such an opportunity in the field? And the boys only thought about it, how would this watch not whitewash, ?!

          And this question had to be asked to the designers of the Pomon filter.
          I didn’t find anything about them in the internet, probably the God-chosen again.
          1. Dooplet11 26 November 2019 07: 53 New
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            And this question had to be asked to the designers of the Pomon filter. I didn’t find anything about them in the internet, surely the chosen ones again.

            Looking bad.
            https://t34inform.ru/doc/1941-04-20_183_CO2328_AС.html
            And, as it turns out, the designers of the real “Pomona” have nothing to do with it, and even the “God's chosen ones” and even more so!
    2. Avior 22 November 2019 20: 44 New
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      they guessed it.
      But
      In addition, the filter is made from a mechanical point of view extremely primitive: in places of spot welding, the metal is burned, which leads to the leakage of oil, etc.
    3. polar fox 24 November 2019 11: 16 New
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      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      My grandfather was just such a kid in 1943 m and got into the tower as a gunner. Over a period of just over a year, four cars were replaced. From the latter he was already pulled. A disabled person of the second group at twenty!

      my uncle was a mechanic driver at T 34 ... from 41 to 45. drove to Berlin. he changed several crews, he remained alive ... after the war, then he tried not to sleep at night, he dreamed of burning in a tank ... they went through hellish tests ... and won.
  3. sabakina 22 November 2019 18: 58 New
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    In any case, you decide which side you are in this story.
    I am on the side of the designer Koshkin. Does anyone mind?
    1. unknown 23 November 2019 06: 54 New
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      And I'm on the side of Dick.
      Koshkin repeated the story of Mikoyan with the Polikarpov fighter.
  4. sabakina 22 November 2019 19: 00 New
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    For the first time I hear that the T-34 sent to the States for testing ...
    1. svp67 22 November 2019 19: 07 New
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      Quote: sabakina
      For the first time I hear that the T-34 sent to the States for testing ...

      Not only him but also KV, and in response, the Americans sent their tanks to us. We even managed to visit M26 "Pershing"
      1. sabakina 22 November 2019 19: 10 New
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        Sergei. prvevet! would you answer. and what did our people want to learn from our mattresses about our tanks? Judging by the article, "this tank is not able to win"?
        1. svp67 22 November 2019 19: 12 New
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          Quote: sabakina
          and what did our people want to learn from our mattresses about our tanks?

          Their point of view. America is still a very industrialized country. Yes, and the first base of the T-34 is Christie's American tank.
          1. sabakina 22 November 2019 19: 16 New
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            Quote: svp67
            Yes, and the first T-34 American Christie tank.
            Uh, no, BT was a follower of Christie. T-34 is generally a different tank. Pendant ... Well, maybe, but not everything else.
            1. svp67 22 November 2019 19: 18 New
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              Quote: sabakina
              T-34 is generally a different tank.

              But he "grew up" from BT. And there are a lot of solutions from BT.
              1. sabakina 22 November 2019 19: 21 New
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                No, not grown. Kharkovsky walked along the path of Christie, but came to a standstill, why Koshkina was attracted to the topic. Right now I find it difficult to clarify with the suspension ... Friday however .. drinks
                1. svp67 23 November 2019 02: 56 New
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                  Quote: sabakina
                  No, not grown.

                  Yes, it has grown ... And this can be proved by analyzing the designs in a phased development
                2. unknown 23 November 2019 06: 56 New
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                  On the T-34 suspension Christie. Grew up from BT. BT-IS with rational angles of inclination of the sheets of the casing.
                3. volodimer 23 November 2019 21: 38 New
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                  T-34, or rather A-32, in terms of hodovka it was almost a dead end. No wonder all the new KV and T-50 tanks had a torsion bar suspension. Christie's candle pendant lived out the last days.
                  Developed during the time of the wheeled-goose track (note that it comes first)
                  On the A-32, only the tracks and the A-20 went into oblivion. We would have a couple of years and what became the T-44 ...
                  Okay, but close to that. As a result, the "panther" nervously smokes on the sidelines ...
                  1. svp67 24 November 2019 09: 50 New
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                    Quote: volodimer
                    We would have a couple of years and what became the T-44 ...

                    Hardly ... Only voiea so spurred production and development. But in reality, the deadlines for the release of the T-34 were constantly disrupted, and so they could not do the T-34M
                  2. mister-red 24 November 2019 13: 19 New
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                    Quote: volodimer
                    T-34, or rather A-32, in terms of hodovka it was almost a dead end. No wonder all the new KV and T-50 tanks had a torsion bar suspension. Christie's candle pendant lived out the last days.

                    Tell the Israelis, otherwise they do not know)
                4. Amurets 24 November 2019 12: 34 New
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                  Quote: sabakina
                  No, not grown. Kharkovsky walked along the path of Christie, but came to a standstill, why Koshkina was attracted to the topic. Right now I find it difficult to clarify with the suspension.

                  svp67 is right. I will explain why. The A-20 and T-30 tanks were designed almost the same, having only different transmissions: A-20 wheeled-tracked, with power supply to 4 rinks, T-30-purely tracked vehicle With a candle suspension, which is easier to bring power to the rinks than with torsion bar.
                5. Filxnumx 24 November 2019 18: 45 New
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                  BT-7 (A-7) - A-20 - A-32 - A (T) -34 Such is the continuity.
                  1. svp67 25 November 2019 01: 03 New
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                    Quote: Fil743
                    BT-7 (A-7) - A-20 - A-32 - A (T) -34

                    To be more precise ... then
                    "Christie M1931, BT-1, BT-2, BT-5, BT-7, BT-IS, BT-7M, A-20, A-32, A-34"
                    Quote: Fil743
                    Such is the continuity.
                6. zenion 19 January 2020 18: 56 New
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                  So it’s not only the tanks that were sent. The Americans, as allies, wanted to know a lot about the armament of the Red Army. They even sent Katyusha. But the parasites did not talk about what gunpowder was used in Katyusha rockets. The Americans made themselves like Katyushas and used them on ships. I saw a documentary American movie, how they fired from them at the Japanese. So there it was dark from the smoke.
          2. abc_alex 23 November 2019 13: 09 New
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            Quote: svp67
            Yes, and the first T-34 American Christie tank.

            No. In the USSR, there were never Christie tanks. Christy generally believed that the tank did not need a tower. His tanks are crazy, pushing on SPGs. According to the requirements of the US military, he made two classic models, but they did not go beyond the training grounds. In the USSR, landing gear without weapons and towers. Therefore, even BT is no longer the "American tank Christie." Especially the T-34, which conceptually was already beyond even the concept of the BT tank.
            1. svp67 24 November 2019 10: 51 New
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              Quote: abc_alex
              In the USSR, there were never Christie tanks.

              But there was a "base chassis" of the Christie m1931 tank, on the basis of which, translating from inches to metric, the BT-2 was created and produced
              Quote: abc_alex
              Therefore, even BT is no longer the "American tank Christie."

              Yes it was a tank of the USSR, but "Christie's type." But even in our documents they wrote. So, if there wasn’t an "American Christie tank, then there was a Soviet tank like Christie"
              Quote: abc_alex
              Especially the T-34, which conceptually was already beyond even the concept of the BT tank.

              Right now you have written nonsense, completely inconsistent with historical reality. T-34, this is a phased development of the BT tank and in its design much remains of the BT.
              1. abc_alex 25 November 2019 01: 01 New
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                Quote: svp67
                But there was a "base chassis" of the Christie m1931 tank, on the basis of which, translating from inches to metric, the BT-2 was created and produced

                Not certainly in that way.
                That is what arrived in the USSR.

                If this is something military, then I am a Spanish pilot. wink

                In May-June 1931, Christie’s tanks were tested in the Soviet Union, according to the results of which a report was compiled that required improvement of the design and the elimination of a number of defects in the combat vehicle. This made it impossible to directly copy the tank, as the Soviet leadership had originally planned. The tower of the tank with artillery weapons in general was to be created from scratch. To refine the American tank, a special design bureau was created under the leadership of N. M. Toskin. Nikolai Mikhailovich Toskin - military engineer of the 2nd rank - an erudite and energetic engineer made a great contribution to the creation and refinement of the design of the BT-2 tank, as well as the formation and establishment of the tank design bureau at the KhPZ.


                Quote: svp67
                Yes it was a tank of the USSR, but "Christie's type." But even in our documents they wrote. So, if there wasn’t an "American Christie tank, then there was a Soviet tank like Christie"

                That’s what they wrote, because the tank did not fit into the concept of the development of armored forces. Therefore, he was not assigned a system index. In real life, the tanks that Christie did were looked like this:



                Quote: svp67
                Right now you have written nonsense, completely inconsistent with historical reality. T-34, this is a phased development of the BT tank and in its design much remains of BT.


                But this is a fairly common, imposed in recent years is very active, but completely wrong error.
                The BT tank is a classic cruising (cavalry tank) with light armor and classic anti-tank weapons (45 mm cannon).
                The T-34 tank actually combined heavy anti-ballistic armor and infantry tank weapons with the speed and range of the cavalry. This is not an evolution of BT, this is a tank of a different concept. BT cannot be used to break through infantry positions with 37-mm guns, it is useless against fortifications.
                The general thing that BT and T-34 have is structural elements. They arose due to the fact that the task of the Kharkov Design Bureau was set incorrectly and Koshkin had to use ready-made components and assemblies of the BT tank to save time. But already in the T-34M project, these elements were supposed to be eliminated. In particular, Christie's suspension is replaced by a torsion.
                1. svp67 25 November 2019 01: 18 New
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                  Quote: abc_alex
                  If this is something military, then I am a Spanish pilot.

                  You can consider yourself "Piloto español"
                  I wrote the "base chassis" for good reason
                  Here is the T-34-T, which is never "combat", but very "combat"
                  Quote: abc_alex
                  In real life, the tanks that Christie did were looked like this:

                  You confuse the models, what you show is M1932, and the USSR purchased M1931, such

                  Quote: abc_alex
                  They arose due to the fact that the task of the Kharkov Design Bureau was set incorrectly and Koshkin had to use ready-made components and assemblies of the tank to save time

                  Koshkin is not the author of the project, he accepted the tank project already being developed by KB KhPZ at Firsov, and he once received it from Dick ...
                  1. abc_alex 25 November 2019 09: 59 New
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                    Quote: svp67
                    Here is the T-34-T, which is never "combat", but very "combat"

                    Well, listen, this tractor is a completely different case. This is the conversion of the tank released by the thousandth series. The design worked out during the war, applied practically without any alteration in another role. And by the way, she is armed. Christie's chassis arrived in the USSR without weapons at all.

                    Quote: svp67
                    You confuse the models, what you show is M1932, and the USSR purchased M1931, such

                    Which one the USSR bought - I showed in the photo. For comparison, look at what the future T-26 purchased from the British Vickers looked like. There were no weapons either, but it was a full tank.
                    I’m not confusing, not so simple. The fact is that Christie M1931 was not prepared by itself, but by order of the military. The military in an ultimatum form demanded a tank with a tower, and Christy took the m1928 car and put a tower on it. M 1931 was built in the amount of 7 copies and all of them were transferred for testing in the US Army. The fate of these machines in general terms is known. And to say that the USSR bought two of them is not correct. These cars have not gone beyond the landfill. Therefore, what exactly was brought to the USSR is not entirely clear. Judging by the photo, it’s probably M1928, although something intermediate is possible.

                    Quote: svp67
                    Koshkin is not the author of the project, he accepted the tank project already being developed by KB KhPZ at Firsov, and he once received it from Dick ...

                    Wait. Let us, nevertheless, divide up the design projects of design bureaus and designers and government tasks. The decision to create tanks with anti-shell armor has an exact date of May 9, 1938. From now on, a report must be kept. I do not argue with your amendments, I just think that then in the USSR the official government order on the level of responsibility was oh how much more serious than any independent projects. And nevertheless Koshkin took up it. Firsov, unfortunately, was already repressed by that time.
                    1. svp67 25 November 2019 20: 43 New
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                      Quote: abc_alex
                      . And nevertheless Koshkin took up it. Firsov, unfortunately, was already repressed by that time.

                      So far, he has only been demoted to constructor, but this, of course, can already be considered repression. Although, for failure to meet the deadlines for the design and manufacture of prototypes, one could not expect otherwise
                      Quote: abc_alex
                      Therefore, what exactly was brought to the USSR is not entirely clear. Judging by the photo, it’s probably M1928, although something intermediate is possible.

                      You know, now I looked at the BT Tanks monograph. So I admit my mistake. There is a description of this event with photos. And the model called "Tank" Christie "M1940", besides there is a photo of their assembly at the factory in Roway. Two finished machines and documentation for their production were purchased. Moreover, one of the reasons for their purchase is indicated, is the purchase of a patent for the production of tanks by the Poles from Christie. Here's how, buying turns out to be in contrast to the likely enemy. And yet, the original place of manufacture was designated Yaroslavl Automobile Plant.
                      1. abc_alex 25 November 2019 22: 39 New
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                        Quote: svp67
                        So far, he has only been demoted to constructor, but this, of course, can already be considered repression. Although, for failure to meet the deadlines for the design and manufacture of prototypes, one could not expect otherwise


                        Wait a moment. I read the following:

                        In mid-1937, A.O. Firsov was again arrested and sent to prison. Shot without trial in 1937


                        That is, until May 1938 he simply did not live. I specified that the resolution of the Defense Committee under the SNK of the USSR No. 198ss “On the tank system of the Red Army”, which set the task of creating a tank that later became the T-34, was issued on August 7, 1938. Firsov could not participate in the design of the tank.
                      2. svp67 26 November 2019 07: 56 New
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                        Quote: abc_alex
                        about is until May 1938 he simply did not live. I specified that the resolution of the Defense Committee under the SNK of the USSR No. 198ss “On the tank system of the Red Army”, which set the task of creating a tank that later became the T-34, was issued on August 7, 1938. Firsov could not participate in the design of the tank.

                        You know, in general, this is not considered the starting point for the construction, but a different decree of the Defense Committee under the SNK of the USSR of August 15, 1937, 1937 No. 94cc "On types of tanks for arming armored troops of the Red Army and on tanks for production in 1938"
                        As follows from the text of the Decree, Plant No. 183 in 1938, in addition to mass production of BT-7 tanks with M-17 and BD-2 engines, as well as T-35 tanks, was to produce a prototype of a light wheeled tracked tank with a diesel engine and six driving wheels with the following performance characteristics:

                        “Weight - 13 - 14 tons.
                        Speed ​​- 52 km / h on tracks and 72 km / h on wheels.
                        Engine - diesel engine KhPZ, 400 hp
                        Type of chassis - wheel-tracked.
                        Armor: frontal - 25 mm;
                        conical tower - 20 mm;
                        side and feed - 13 mm,
                        roof and bottom - 10 mm.
                        Armament: 1 - 45 mm gun with stabilizers or
                        1 - 76 mm gun;
                        2 machine guns DT;
                        Flamethrower for self-defense;
                        Every fifth tank should have an anti-aircraft gun.
                        Ammunition: 130 - 150 shells for a 45 mm gun or 50 shells for a 76 mm gun
                        2500 rounds of ammunition for diesel fuel.
                        Communication devices: Every fifth tank should have a duplex radio station with a whip antenna installed along the side of the tank. The remaining tanks must have a VHF radio station.
                        Observation instruments: periscope sight, telescopic sight, commander’s panorama.
                        Ammunition: tools, accessories, a portable set of spare parts, chemical property (gas masks, anti-dust suits), crew personal belongings with a one-day rations for food.
                        Power reserve - 300 km.
                        Crew - 3 person.
                        "The tank must be leakproof to protect against airborne substances and to overcome water barriers."
                        After receiving this letter in the 8th GU NKOP, a list of organizational and staffing measures was developed to create a separate design bureau (OKB) at plant No. 183 for designing a new combat vehicle, as well as the deadlines for the phased implementation of work were determined. The developed list of measures on September 28, 1937 was sent to the Director of Plant No. 183 I.P. Bondarenko by letter No. 4-233-3411c signed by the Acting Head of the 8th GU NKOP KP Farmanyantsa:

                        “By decision of the Government No. 94ss dated 15-VIII-1937, the 8th Main Directorate was proposed to design, manufacture prototypes and prepare production for serial production of high-speed wheeled-tracked tanks with synchronized progress by 1939.
                        This work should be carried out at your factory.
                        Due to the extreme seriousness of this work and the extremely tight deadlines set by the Government, the 8th General Directorate considers the following measures necessary:
                        1. To design a machine, create a separate design bureau (OKB) at plant No. 183, reporting directly to the chief engineer of the plant.
                        2. By agreement with the Head of the VAMM and ABTU, to appoint the military engineer of the 3rd rank, Comrade DIK Adolf Yakovlevich, as the head of this bureau of the VAMM adjunct, and to appoint 5 VAMM diplomas for work in the bureau on October 30 and an additional 1 from December 20 person. VAMM graduates arriving at the plant must be provided with housing and all conditions for normal work.
                        3. By agreement with the Head of ABTU RKKA, appoint Captain KULCHITSKY Evgeny Anatolyevich as the Chief Consultant on this machine.
                        4. Not later than September 30, to allocate for work at OKB the 8 best tank designers of the plant for their appointment as leaders of individual groups, one standardizer, secretary and archivist.
                        5. To approve the staff of the separate VAMM design bureau in the amount of 50 people (taking into account the arriving academicians) for the period of development of the technical project with a further increase in the development of working drawings to 100 people.
                        6. To create a model-mock-up workshop at the Design Bureau and ensure the extraordinary performance of work related to the new design in all the shops of the plant.
                        7. Bearing in mind the need to put the machine into serial production and for maximum thoroughness and thoughtfulness of the design, it is considered necessary to design 3 versions of the chassis at the stage of the technical design and to manufacture 2 versions of prototypes approved by the project review committee.
                        8. For this work to conclude an agreement with ABTU RKKA - no later than October 15, 1937 with the simultaneous approval of the tactical and technical requirements for this machine from NPO and VIII Glavka.
                        9. Ensure the performance of work in stages in the following periods:
                        a) Submission of a technical project with preliminary calculations and a layout by February 1, 1938 (to develop a drive on wheels in 3 versions).
                        b) To develop a working draft of the machine according to two options approved by the commission by May 1, 1938.
                        c) To make prototypes of machines in two ways by September 1, 1938.
                        d) Test the prototypes and eliminate the defects identified during the test by December 1, 1938
                        e) Prepare serial drawings and conduct production preparation for the production of a finally approved sample by May 1, 1939, so that a serial new machine is produced from 1 / V-39.
                        10. In the process of designing and manufacturing prototypes, submit to the OKB chief the right to attract and pay specialists for consultations and development of individual issues, and also, as necessary, to send OKB employees to other plants.
                        11. To participate in the development of tactical and technical requirements, instructing VAMM graduates and selecting the necessary materials for design, send the Head to Moscow no later than October 2. OKB t. DIK with the leaders of the groups allocated by the plant.
                        12. The workroom for the design bureau is necessary for the convenience of using the archive of department 190 to be allocated in department 100 and fully equipped by the time it begins to work, i.e. by October 10th.
                        To ensure full support for all work, it is necessary to establish your personal supervision and guidance for all of the above activities. ”
                        It was then that an adjunct of the BTV Duke Academy appeared at the 183 plant, with its vision of this tank
                      3. abc_alex 27 November 2019 20: 41 New
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                        Quote: svp67
                        You know, in general, this is not considered the starting point for the construction, but a different decree of the Defense Committee under the SNK of the USSR of August 15, 1937, 1937 No. 94cc "On types of tanks for arming armored troops of the Red Army and on tanks for production in 1938"


                        This is debatable. This decision, although it was the beginning of the creation of the Kharkov Design Bureau, but the tank described in it is not a T-34. This is a light tank with bulletproof armor. Maybe,

                        In general, I’m also not quite right, because in 1938, tasks on the T-34 did not work, but something is already closer:


                        ANNEX No. 2.
                        TO THE RESOLUTION OF KO at SNK of the USSR
                        dated August 7, 1938 No. 198ss / s

                        TACTICAL AND TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS
                        FOR DESIGN AND MANUFACTURE OF THE LIGHT TRACK
                        WHEEL QUICK-BAST TANK BT-20.

                        I. Purpose.

                        The caterpillar-wheeled high-speed tank is intended for independent operations as part of tank formations and for operations in tactical interaction with other combat arms.

                        II. A brief description of:

                        1. Type of tank - tracked wheeled high-speed with six-wheel drive.
                        2. The weight of the tank - 16,5 tons.
                        3. Armament - 1 - 45 mm. gun with stabilizer, 3 - DT machine gun or
                        1 - 76 mm. L-10 gun with stabilizer, 3 - DT machine gun.
                        Machine-gun anti-aircraft installation.
                        4. The combat kit - 140-150 rounds of 45 mm or 75 rounds of 76 mm
                        3024 machine gun rounds.
                        5. Booking: booking must protect against 12,7 mm armor-piercing bullets from all distances.
                        driver shield 30 mm. tilt angle - 30 °
                        front sheet 20 mm. tilt angle - 53 °
                        turret box 20 mm. tilt angle - 35 °
                        boards vertical. 25 mm. tilt angle - 0 °
                        tower 25 mm. tilt angle - 25 °
                        feed sheet 20 mm. tilt angle - 18 °
                        roof and bottom 10 mm.
                        The tilt angle of the bulwark armor (caterpillar cover) should be at least 22 - 25 °. The body shape is streamlined.
                        6. Speed ​​- on caterpillars and wheels the same speeds.
                        The maximum speed is 65 km / h.
                        The minimum speed is 9 km / h.
                        7. Engine - diesel engine KhPZ - 500 hp
                        8. Crew - 3-4 people.
                        9. Cruising range - 250 - 300 km. on the tracks.
                        10. Dimensions of the tank - clearance 0,4 mt. on tracks, the height of the tank is 2,3 mt.
                        11. The specific pressure is 0,65 on the tracks.


                        As for Morozov, it is already in Protocol No. 28 of the meeting of the GVS of the Red Army
                        On December 9 - 10, 1938 he was mentioned as the leading designer of the A-20 tank.
                        By the way, it is interesting that until some point the A-20 and A-32 tanks were considered as independent projects. They even discussed the issue of their joint production in Kharkov, and when they said from there that they couldn’t, the transfer of the A-20 to a series of other plants.


                        30th of October 1939
                        No. C06415
                        The beginning Glavspetsmasha comrade SURENYAN
                        Copy: Deputy People's Comm. Engineering t. GOREGLYADU
                        The beginning ABTU RKKA to Commander Comrade Pavlov

                        On the subject: Programs of 1940 for special mechanical engineering and production preparation.

                        On B / letter No. 4214с of 10 / Х-с.г. inform you ....:
                        a) Machines A-34, according to their tactical and technical data, should become machines of large-scale production and only a large powerful plant can do it - our equipment can certainly lift machines of this tonnage. Other tank factories should have been given a lighter tank, the A-20, for manufacture, where an assembly batch of mash should be made. "A-20."
                        b) In addition, the A-20 machine, from our point of view, as a less mass machine can be given to a less powerful factory for manufacturing.
                        c) At the same time, our plant will not be able to produce both A-34 and A-20 both in large quantities at the available capacities.


                        And to be meticulously accurate, the appearance of the T-34 was approved no earlier than the spring of 1940.

                        draft resolution of May 10
                        SYSTEM OF ARMOR-TANK WEAPONS OF THE RED ARMY.

                        The Main Military Council DECIDES:

                        Leave the Red Army in service:
                        I. TANKS.
                        .....
                        B. MEDIUM TANK T-34 - impenetrable 37 - 45 mm cannon for all distances, with the main tactical and technical data:
                        1. Type - tracked.
                        2. Armor - 45 mm.
                        3. Motor - V-2 diesel engine, 500 hp
                        4. Armament - gun type L-11 76 mm and 3 machine guns DT.
                        5. Speed ​​- up to 45 km / h.
                        6. Cruising range - 400 - 450 km.
                        7. Total weight - 26 tons.


                        And I think so, not without the influence of this:

                        November 13, 1939
                        Leningrad
                        C.K. V.K.P. (b) comrade STALIN

                        PEOPLE'S COMMISSAR DEFENSE
                        MARSHAL OF THE SOVIET UNION comrade Voroshilov

                        PEOPLE'S COMMISSAR OF MIDDLE ENGINEERING
                        comrade Likhachev

                        From GINZBURG S.A.
                        Chief designer of the plant number 174 named. Voroshilova
                        2nd rank Military Engineer, member of the CPSU (B.), Party membership card No. 3045500

                        REPORT NOTE
                        .....


                        The qualitative side of tank weapons is determined by the power of anti-tank defense weapons. ... With the advent of a significant number of anti-tank guns in rifle regiments, which could be additional cannons of a divisional anti-tank reserve - a serious adjustment is now needed as a tank weapon to ensure a successful attack.
                        An additional medium heavy armor tank is required, protected by armor, at least against the action of 37 mm gun shells. It will be a tank escort of small tanks of direct infantry support. This tank will have to suppress the anti-tank cannon defense to its entire depth and thereby free the battlefield for small tanks, which in turn clear the battlefield of firing points that impede the advance of infantry.
                        This new medium tank should be a powerful tank, at least with a double engine power reserve (20 - 25 hp per ton) and armed with a 75 mm caliber. .....
                        Thus, as a conclusion, it is now necessary to adjust the quality of tank weapons, first of all, by creating a new powerful medium tank, secondly a new heavy tank, and thirdly a new small tank.
                        Technically, these tasks are feasible and will give the necessary combat and economic effect, provided that these new vehicles are created as purely tracked, without complication by additional requirements for the wheelset. (For example: The requirement to leave the tank from the battlefield with a lost track will save several tanks, but it will overload the entire fleet and make all vehicles much heavier and less economical). ....
                        6. An analysis of our pilot tanks indicates the availability of suitable vehicle models:
                        a) Medium tank of type 34 (production of plant No. 183) - is a type that completely solves the tasks posed to a modern medium tank.
                        b) The high-speed wheeled-tracked tank - type 20 (manufactured by Plant No. 183) is a seriously improved type of wheeled-tracked tank. But this type in the tank weapons system is redundant, because in terms of dynamic qualities it can be replaced by a medium tank of type 34. At the same time, the capabilities of our tank industry, as will be discussed below, encounter a serious obstacle, in terms of their capacity, in mastering this additional type of tank.

                      4. svp67 28 November 2019 04: 10 New
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                        Quote: abc_alex
                        but the tank described in it is not T-34 at all. This is a light tank with bulletproof armor.

                        Yes, this is what soon turned into the A-20, and then in the A-32 and T-34
                      5. abc_alex 1 December 2019 03: 30 New
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                        Quote: svp67
                        Yes, this is what soon turned into the A-20, and then in the A-32 and T-34

                        The fact of the matter is that, judging by the documents, it has NOT turned. A-20 and A-32 were independent projects, not related to each other.
                      6. svp67 1 December 2019 11: 20 New
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                        Quote: abc_alex
                        The fact of the matter is that, judging by the documents, it has NOT turned. A-20 and A-32 were independent projects, not related to each other.

                        Just look at their photos to understand that they are "very close relatives"


                        Resolution of the Defense Committee 198cc "On the system of tank weapons of the Red Army", adopted on August 7, 1938. The second paragraph of this Regulation regarding the BT-20 tank stated:
                        “In order to further improve the tanks, to create according to the tactical and technical data of the ABTU developed at the tank meeting and approved by the People’s Commissar of Defense, three prototypes of tanks - two tracked and one - wheeled and tracked with 6 driving wheels (Appendix No. 2). One of the tracked tanks to make chemical.
                        a) To oblige the NKOP to manufacture and transfer the NPOs for testing prototype tanks by June 1, 1939.
                        Present the wooden model of the tank to the breadboard commission by October 1, 1938.
                        b) To oblige NPOs to subject prototypes of tanks to comprehensive comparative tests and to select one model for submission to service that best meets the requirements for the tank ”
                        [GA of the Russian Federation. F. 8418. Op. 28. D. 35. L. 215 - 216].
                        Thus, Plant No. 183 was obliged to develop and manufacture not one experimental BT-20 wheeled-tracked tank, but three - one wheeled-tracked and two tracked ones.

                        As a result, the BT-20 tank was not made in metal, but instead At the end of October 1938, Plant No. 183 presented projects of two versions of the tank - wheeled-tracked and tracked, which received factory indices A-20 and A-20G, respectively. Drawings of these prototypes were considered at a meeting of the Main Military Council (GVS) of the Red Army, held on December 9 and 10, 1938.
                        As a result of the hard work of the experimental department of plant No. 183 at the end of May 1939, the A-20 tank was assembled (without installing weapons), tested at the stand and tested on wheels in the factory with trial runs. He was assigned serial number 0367–5.

                        Factory tests of the tank A-20G, which by that time was assigned the factory index A-32, were started a little later, in the second decade of June 1939. The A-32 tank (serial number 0365-3) differed from the A-20 tank mainly in the following:
                        the combat weight of the tank was 19 tons;
                        instead of a 45-mm 20K gun with a stabilizer, a 76,2-mm L-10 gun was installed on the tank;
                        there was no wheel drive;
                        installation of additional (fifth) track rollers on board.
                        The armor protection of the A-32 tank was identical to that of the A-20 tank, with the exception of the vertical side sheets of the hull, the thickness of which was increased from 25 to 30 mm.

                        In addition, due to the lack of front swivel wheels, the tank body in the front part did not have a narrowing (as on the A-20), which provided greater freedom in the placement of the crew in the control compartment.

                        Something like this
                      7. abc_alex 2 December 2019 09: 45 New
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                        Quote: svp67
                        Just look at their photos to understand that they are "very close relatives"

                        Of course they are alike. Parents are the same. And due to lack of time and effort, Kharkiv went to the maximum possible unification.

                        That is not the question. We are used to the fact that the T-34, as it were, grew out of the A-20. And judging by the documents, this is not so. These tanks are too different. You do not forget, a clear statement of work was put up for the BT-20 project and its mass was limited. And the future T-34 for this limitation crawled out not just a little, but by tons.
                        According to the documents, it turns out that the A-20 remained the A-20 and was preparing for release as one of the options for a mass light tank to replace the T-26 and, possibly, BT.
                        But the T-34, it seems, did not work out by adding rollers and replacing the gun, but by revising the concept. Read the letter from Ginzburg. It directly speaks of the ballistic armor of an average tank from Kharkov. Even the A-32 did not possess such armor, as did the A-20. The letter dates from November 1939. A-32 rollout at the end of July. And this is exactly “32”, and Ginzburg speaks of “type 34”. In general, it would be interesting to figure out what made the design bureau make the tank heavier and, in spite of the TK, give it anti-ballistic armor. Very similar to the "initiative from the field."
                      8. svp67 2 December 2019 13: 48 New
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                        Quote: abc_alex
                        And due to lack of time and effort, Kharkiv went to the maximum possible unification.

                        Not only, but also in order to simplify their joint production as much as possible, in case both models are adopted
  • zenion 19 January 2020 18: 57 New
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    The Americans also had rocket-propelled mortars on ships, but like Katyusha.
  • Filxnumx 24 November 2019 18: 51 New
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    Tank Christie M1931 with his designer
    1. abc_alex 25 November 2019 01: 05 New
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      Quote: Fil743
      Tank Christie M1931 with his designer

      But this tank did not go anywhere further than the landfill.
  • The leader of the Redskins 22 November 2019 20: 01 New
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    There, most likely, they tried to determine what can be offered by compliance. At KV, by the way, the tracks began to burst, he also did not finish the test.
    1. svp67 23 November 2019 02: 56 New
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      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      At KV, by the way, the tracks began to burst, he also did not finish the test.

      It is strange that they withstood the T-34
  • lucul 22 November 2019 20: 09 New
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    and what did our people want to learn from our mattresses about our tanks?

    Stalin did not fully trust God's chosen designers, and wanted an independent opinion.
    And as it turned out not in vain - replacing the air filter from Pomona to Cyclone had an extremely positive effect on the V-2 diesel engine. T-34 just took a deep breath and began to "fly" on the battlefield.
    1. irontom 23 November 2019 11: 40 New
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      This problem was known to our designers in the 40th, on the T-34M the Cyclone was planned with the output of filters to the fighting compartment, after the 22nd there was no time for filters.
      And now pay attention when the Americans tested the T-34 with us, it was already with a five-span, cyclones and a tower nut.
    2. Dooplet11 23 November 2019 22: 24 New
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      You are “turned” on the chosen ones. In a tank, the engine filter is designed by the tank designer. In T-34 "Pomotn" inserted Koshkin and Morozov and K '.
    3. Dooplet11 26 November 2019 08: 08 New
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      Stalin did not fully trust God's chosen designers, and wanted an independent opinion.
      - Wanted to know the opinion of American "God's chosen"? laughing
      And as it turned out not in vain - replacing the air filter from Pomona to Cyclone had an extremely positive effect on the V-2 diesel engine. T-34 just took a deep breath and began to "fly" on the battlefield.
      -Let's look at the names. Until the 43rd, a serial air purifier of plant No. 34 was installed on the T-183 (what you call "Pomon"). And it was he who most likely stood on a tank tested by the Americans. The real "Pomon" (according to the factory documentation) was an experimental design and was not installed on production tanks. But it was he who served as the prototype of the "Cyclone", which was to be installed, according to the Order
      ON THE PEOPLE'S COMMISSARIAT OF THE TANK INDUSTRY OF THE USSR
      No. 303c since the summer of 1942, but actually appeared on production vehicles in the 43rd. But, most interestingly, the opinion of the American "God's chosen" is somewhat belated. Replacement of the serial filter of plant No. 183 has been sought already since 1940.
  • rhino 22 November 2019 22: 07 New
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    There was an idea to release the T-34 in the United States and deliver it by Lend-Lease to the Soviet Socialist Republic and other countries. But after testing, this thought was abandoned.
    1. svp67 23 November 2019 03: 00 New
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      Quote: Nashorn
      There was an idea to release the T-34 in the United States and deliver it by Lend-Lease to the Soviet Socialist Republic and other countries. But after testing, this thought was abandoned.

      America entered the war, in fact not the name of the tank troops. And they wanted to get them quickly, and for this they needed tanks that the American industry had to give, so they looked at what others had and what could be taken useful.
      1. rhino 23 November 2019 04: 16 New
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        Not certainly in that way. The USSR has long been pulling with sending tanks to the United States. And when they were sent, they already fully launched the release of Sherman. Sherman is a complete analogue of the T-34, so they did not need the T-34. Moreover, many decisions in it were unsuccessful.
        1. svp67 23 November 2019 04: 40 New
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          Quote: Nashorn
          T-34 they did not need.

          I need it. At least for comparison with M4.
          Quote: Nashorn
          Moreover, many decisions in it were unsuccessful.
          M4 is also far from ideal. And if the T-34 had been to them earlier, I think that the M4 would have been different from the beginning, in any case, the wide tracks would have appeared immediately, not to mention the "breaking" sights
          1. irontom 23 November 2019 11: 54 New
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            Sound familiar?
            T-20 second experimental on torsion bars on July 1, 1943. - the combat weight was 30 617 kg. . During its development, the experience of studying the T-34 and KV-1, as well as the development of the GMC T70, was taken into account
            1. mister-red 24 November 2019 13: 28 New
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              Don't you think that the T-20 is very similar to the T-34M? That is, the Americans, when looking at the T-34, got about the same ideas that the T-34 costructors had, but which they did not have time to realize.
            2. Filxnumx 24 November 2019 19: 09 New
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              During its development, the experience of studying the T-34 and KV-1, as well as the development of the GMC T70, was taken into account

              At the same time, the influence of German and English schools is also quite clearly manifested.


              1. irontom 25 November 2019 14: 32 New
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                The Germans ran only with a torsion bar suspension, and through the T70 GMC, its creation was a repetition of the history of Three, first on a high-speed self-propelled guns they used Christie's suspension with all its shortcomings, then they modified it for torsion bars.

                The British did not run close since Cruzader his development is Christie's clones. Not to mention the square design that the Americans refused back in the 41st creating the M4. But the British armored foolishly dodged until the end of the war, only having built Centurion "late" built a normal tank.
                Not to mention the Panther, the Americans met her only at the end of the 43rd, and even then did not make normal conclusions, as a result, the 44th was a shock for the American tank division.
                The layout of the T-20 was already in May 42nd.
              2. irontom 25 November 2019 14: 55 New
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                So the first prototype T-18 T42 with 37 guns on January 42nd, the military demanded 37 mm was replaced by the British 57-mm 6-pound rapid-fire gun (QF 6-pounder 7 cwt, in the American designation - 57 mm Gun M1)
                new prototypes T49 July 42nd.
        2. irontom 23 November 2019 11: 48 New
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          I wonder which ones?
          Here you have the layout of the T-20 May 42nd. In fact, the T-34 is only on balancer carts.

          Here he is already in the metal
  • volodimer 23 November 2019 21: 20 New
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    Greetings! In the framework of lendlize, we exchanged weapons, even those that we were not going to change. Our military, in particular, was interested in the composition of the armor of American tanks. As far as I know from the sources, our military noted that by the end of the war the armor of American tanks (it was clear that they were not the ones that were already supplied to us) had less armor resistance, but increased viscousity compared to our armor. As a result, she opposed enemy shells in a completely different way. Ours kept, but then it was pricked, and absorbed and enveloped them, but also passed. Something like that. In general, this was determined by the chemical composition and the manufacturing process of the armor. It's not even what they wanted, but what we wanted. hi
  • Sergey M. Karasev 24 November 2019 17: 50 New
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    Sorry to get into your conversation.
    and what did our people want to learn from our mattresses about our tanks?

    Perhaps ours had a secret thought that the Americans at their plants would organize the production of the T-34 and KV for the Red Army. A similar situation occurred during the WWII: E-series steam locomotives developed in Russia were produced in the USA and sent to us.
  • Undecim 22 November 2019 19: 01 New
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    However, there is another point of view on these tests expressed by Yuri Pasholok, a well-known expert in the field of tank history. He claims that there was no special assembly of tanks, and the Americans simply did not fill the Pomon filter with oil, because of which, in fact, all the troubles happened. If the Yankees had guessed to fill in the oil and even cleaned the filter in time, then at least they would have achieved 79% air purification.
    The point of view is extremely doubtful.

    This is a test report of the T-34-85, which hit the Americans in Korea in 1950. The 463-page report contains a detailed description of each node. The tank was simply dismantled to the cog. I do not think that with the T-34-76 it was different.
    1. sabakina 22 November 2019 19: 04 New
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      Give Abrams the last modification and I'll take it apart to the molecule!
    2. Undecim 22 November 2019 20: 22 New
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      By the way, this document, which is given in the article, also contains a refutation of the version of Pasholok.

      The author simply did not pay attention to the place where it was indicated that the quality of the filter was so poor that oil flowed out of it.
  • Alex_You 22 November 2019 19: 33 New
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    Who can tell where these reports can be viewed entirely.
    1. Undecim 22 November 2019 20: 03 New
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      Who can tell where these reports can be viewed entirely
      RGAE fund 8752 op. 4 dd 573-577
      1. Alex_You 23 November 2019 10: 43 New
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        Thank you. good
  • lucul 22 November 2019 19: 54 New
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    The Americans believe that only the Saboteur could construct such a device. For them it is also not clear why it is called oil in our instructions.
    Tests in the laboratory and its operation showed that:
    and) . the air cleaner DOESN’t clean the air entering the motor.
    b) its throughput does not provide the inflow of the required amount of air EVEN when the engine is idling !!

    Needless to say, all T-34-76s for 1941 were sentenced in advance and purposefully.
    In other words, I can’t call it a hidden diversion. It remains to find out the designers of this Pomona ....
    1. rhino 22 November 2019 22: 11 New
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      Unless the filter case. A checkpoint, and viewing devices ???
      1. lucul 22 November 2019 22: 14 New
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        Unless the filter case. A checkpoint, and viewing devices ???

        The battlefield still needs to be reached ....
    2. Dooplet11 24 November 2019 00: 19 New
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      Koshkin, Morozov ...
      1. lucul 24 November 2019 12: 20 New
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        Koshkin, Morozov ..

        What evidence?
        1. Dooplet11 24 November 2019 17: 03 New
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          What evidence?
          “Do you need evidence that Koshkin and Morozov led the creation of the T-34?” And they claimed all the constructive solutions for this tank?
          1. lucul 24 November 2019 17: 17 New
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            Do you need evidence that Koshkin and Morozov led the creation of the T-34? And they claimed all the constructive solutions for this tank?

            Maybe Koshkin still led the material science of the V-2 motor, or its heat balance? )))
            He set as is what was the most powerful in the country at that time.
            1. Dooplet11 24 November 2019 18: 34 New
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              maybe Koshkin still supervised over material science of the V-2 motor?

              You asked the names of those who inserted the Pomon in the T-34. The filter ("like Pomon", and not just "Pomon", if you understand the difference!) For the T-34 was designed by the designers of the T-34. And this design was approved by none other than Koshkin and Morozov. An air filter is an element of a tank, not a motor. And your phrase about "manual materials science of the motor" just amused. Wow so "non-Russian" say! laughing
              1. lucul 24 November 2019 20: 09 New
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                You asked the names of those who inserted the Pomon in the T-34. Filter ("like Pomon", not just "Pomon", if you understand the difference!) For the T-34

                Yes ? So it’s Koshkin’s BT-7M tanks, too, the Pomon filter claimed?
                1. Dooplet11 24 November 2019 20: 20 New
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                  I won’t say anything about BT-7M, but on T-34 he, Koshkin, is exactly "God's chosen", as you deigned to say. After all, he could design a filter of a different type, but did not. laughing :
                  Needless to say, all T-34-76s for 1941 were sentenced in advance and purposefully.
                  In other words, I can’t call it a hidden diversion.
                  1. lucul 24 November 2019 21: 03 New
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                    I won’t say anything about BT-7M, but on T-34 he, Koshkin, is exactly "God's chosen", as you deigned to say. After all, he could design a filter of a different type, but did not

                    So why do not you tell for the BT-7M? )))
                    Maybe because the filter came with the motor?
                    1. Dooplet11 25 November 2019 05: 35 New
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                      So why do not you tell for the BT-7M? )))
                      Maybe because the filter came with the motor?
                      I can say one thing for sure - Morozov designed the BT-1940M in 7. As for the air filter, its shape and location depends on the layout of the tank. Therefore, it is designed by "tankers".
                    2. Dooplet11 25 November 2019 08: 22 New
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                      So why do not you tell for the BT-7M? )))
                      Maybe because the filter came with the motor?

                      B-2 engine in the delivery state:

                      Do you see an air filter on it? I do not detect.
                      Let's compare the air filters on the V-2 engines of the T-34 and KV tanks:

                      And there, and there is a "Pomon filter" (if you take 1940)! But are they somehow different ?! But, nevertheless, Pomon!
                      And this thesis:
                      Needless to say, all T-34-76s for 1941 were sentenced in advance and purposefully.

                      should be fair (???) to write like this:
                      Needless to say that all T-34-76, BT-7M and KV for 1941 were sentenced in advance and purposefully

                      And to the “God chosen” (c) Koshkin and Morozov add the “God chosen” (c) Kotin. He also “sentenced” his tank in advance and purposefully!
                      1. lucul 25 November 2019 09: 52 New
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                        B-2 engine is in delivery: do you see an air filter on it? I do not detect.

                        So I also don’t find the flywheel either. Does this mean that the designers of the tank must make the flywheel themselves? The flywheel, like the air filter, protrudes beyond the dimensions of the engine and is transported separately, and then they are already assembled on the spot. Not?
                        Let's compare the air filters on the V-2 engines of the T-34 and KV tanks:

                        Maybe because there was another air cleaner on the HF? What is caused by the different layout of the tank.
                        The same Multicyclone was developed by dvigatelisty, but not the designers of the tank.
                      2. Dooplet11 25 November 2019 10: 22 New
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                        So I also don’t find the flywheel either. Does this mean that the designers of the tank must make the flywheel themselves?
                        - perhaps.
                        The flywheel, like the air filter, protrudes beyond the dimensions of the engine and is transported separately, and then they are already assembled on the spot. Not?
                        - not the fact that they are transported separately. The fact that the photo is not.
                        Maybe because there was another air cleaner on the HF? What is caused by the different layout of the tank.
                        - The cleaner on the HF is different, including due to the layout (fact), but of the same type "pomon" (fact). The "chosen" are to blame? Sabotage?
                        Same The multicyclone was developed by engine engineers, not tank designers .
                        - are there poufs? It says here that the VTI-3 Cyclone was installed separately from the engine: http://www.acemodel.com.ua/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1718&start=30 And the Multicyclone appeared on T- 34 after the 44th.
                      3. Dooplet11 25 November 2019 10: 30 New
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                        So I also don’t find the flywheel either. Does this mean that the designers of the tank must make the flywheel themselves? The flywheel, like the air filter, protrudes beyond the dimensions of the engine and is transported separately, and then they are already assembled on the spot. Not?

                        On the T-34 at V-2, the role of the flywheel was played by the main friction clutch with the fan impeller:

                        Designers T-34 did not make a flywheel. They designed it. In the transmission. hi
                      4. Dooplet11 25 November 2019 10: 43 New
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                        In HF, by the way, everything is the same: the fan-flywheel is separate, and the engine is separate. Removing and installing a fan when replacing an engine with a HF:

                        And air purifiers separately (on the transmission partition).
                        God's chosen, yes, lucul?
                    3. Dooplet11 25 November 2019 12: 27 New
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                      Maybe because there was another air cleaner on the HF? What is caused by the different layout of the tank.
                      The same Multicyclone was developed by dvigatelisty, but not the designers of the tank.

                      Hope the bullet point in our discussion. Drawing of the T-34 filter, approved for the 41st year:

                      In the stamp at the bottom of the drawing is indicated “Plant named after the Comintern”, - Plant No. 183, aka “Kharkov Steam Locomotive”, aka the manufacturer of the T-34 tank. On the drawing are the names of the developers and approvers. Look for the "chosen ones". hi
                    4. Dooplet11 25 November 2019 12: 33 New
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                      https://t34inform.ru/publication/p03-11.html
                      In addition to Plant No. 183, in 1940, Plant No. 2 was also involved in the development of a new, more advanced air purifier for the V-34 diesel installed in the T-75 tank. Specialists of the Scientific Research Institute 1600, which was the experimental base of Plant No. 75, developed the VF-5 air purifier , running tests of prototypes of which in T-34 tanks took place in August - September 1940 together with M-250 No. 3 and No. 4 diesels. In tests, the VF-5 air purifier showed satisfactory results and was recommended by Plant No. 75 for installation in the tank T-34 instead of the serial air purifier of plant No. 183. Also, in 34, the VO-1940 air purifier, developed in 20 in Leningrad at the experimental engineering plant No. 1939 named after Kirov for the tank A-185 (in the spring of 20, plant number 1940 became part of plant number 185).
                      To finally resolve the issue of choosing an air purifier for the V-2 diesel, installed in the T-34 tank, in October 183, the management of plant No. 1940 proposed to conduct comparative bench tests of the VF-5 and VO-20 air purifiers, as well as the serial and experimental air purifier of their own development. Tests of air purifiers, it was decided to conduct at the factory number 75 in the Research Institute 1600.
                      While preparatory work was going on at the research institute 1600 for the tests planned for December, on November 19, 1940, the Defense Committee under the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR adopted Resolution No. 428ss,

                      As you can see, the "tankers" were engaged in the air purifiers, not the "minders". hi
                    5. Dooplet11 25 November 2019 12: 40 New
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                      Another interesting thing about air cleaning. The Germans were even worse:
                      Thus, the results of comparative tests conducted at the Research Institute 1600 showed that not one of the domestic air purifiers met the requirements for the air cleaning system of the V-428 diesel engine installed in the T-2 tank provided for by Decree KO No. 34ss. It should be noted that the test results of the air purifier of the German T-III tank were much worse than the test results of domestic air purifiers. Therefore, by the decision of the commission, the German air purifier was withdrawn from testing at their initial stage. The air purification coefficient of a German air purifier under conditions of dustiness of 1 g / m³ was only 65%.
                      After a comprehensive study of the results of comparative tests, the commission compiled a report, in the final part of which it was indicated:

                      "1. None of the tested air purifiers can be recommended for the V-2 tank engine.
                      2. Of the tested air purifiers in terms of basic indicators, the air purifier of plant No. 75 showed somewhat better results.
                      3. Given the insignificant difference in performance, production efficiency and the possibility of introducing positive elements of air purifiers of plants No. 75 and 174, The Commission considers it possible temporarily, until May 1, 1941 to allow installation on the machines of plant No. 183 of their air purifiers under the following conditions:
                      a) The air purifier must be refueled with a corrugated, non-annealed coffin.
                      b) Laying of the gimbal should not be done with individual bundles or bundles, but with loose layers in the entire width of the volume of the filter element, and its tight packing should not take place.
                      c) When operating the machine in dusty conditions, the filter should be cleaned at least 2 hours later.

                      4. By May 1941, an air purifier should be manufactured and tested with the following key indicators. After 10 hours of engine operation at operational speeds with a dust content of 1 g. dust per 1 m3 of air (dust with grain from 0,006 to 0,020 mm).
                      1) Coeff. air purification 97 - 98%.
                      2) The vacuum behind the air cleaner is not more than 750 mm in.with. [7,4 kPa]
                      3) The absence of entrainment of oil from the air cleaner to the engine for the entire time of operation.
                      4) Design - simple in serial production and reliable and convenient in operation.
                      5) The ability to recharge in the field by one person without special tools in no more than 10 - 15 minutes.
                      5. The Commission considers the main and most appropriate direction in the design of air purifiers:
                      a) An increase in the size of the air cleaner.
                      b) Transfer of the air cleaner from the motor to unused tank volumes.
                      c) Particularly careful coordination of the design and location of the air cleaner with the air path of the tank.
                      5. The Commission, noting the lack of air purifiers for the tank, emphasizes the critical importance of creating a tank air purifier as soon as possible. Why recommends giving an order for air purifiers for a tank engine to plants 75, 174, 183, Kirovsky, STZ and NATI, obliging them to manufacture and test by May 1941 a sample that meets the requirements of § 3.
                      In addition, the Commission considers it necessary in the near future to establish a unified methodology and test conditions for air purifiers for all tank plants, which should be entrusted to a special commission. ”
                      [RGVA. F. 31811. Op. 3. D. 2036. L. 23-24]

                      The order for promising air purifiers is given to the "tankers", and not to the "minders". wink
                    6. Dooplet11 25 November 2019 12: 50 New
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                      And here about the real "Pomon", which, it turns out, was an experimental design:

                      Experienced air purifier No. 1, referred to in the factory documentation as "Pomon oil type air purifier", as well as the serial air purifier of the T-34 tank belonged to the combined type of air purifiers. The T-34 tank was supposed to install two such air purifiers - one for each row (left and right) of the V-2 diesel cylinders. In this regard, the design of the intake pipe of the B-2 diesel was changed - the central pipe was canceled, with the help of which the intake manifolds were connected to the T-34 tank’s serial air cleaner. Experienced air purifiers were connected to the intake manifolds using special pipes, the left air purifier - with the left manifold, the right - with the right. At the same time, the installation of air purifiers in the T-34 tank was supposed to be carried out in the fighting compartment on the engine partition. This technical solution allowed to increase the size of the air cleaner and the volume of its filter element, thereby increasing the duration of the air cleaner without cleaning.
                      And again. his designers are “tankers”! laughing
                    7. lucul 26 November 2019 23: 19 New
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                      "God's chosen", as you have expressed yourself.

                      And to the "chosen ones"

                      God's chosen, yes

                      Search for the "God's chosen"


                      Ahaha-ahah how notably "bombed"))))
                      And "someone" pounded himself on the chest with his heel, that he had never been chosen by God)))
                    8. Dooplet11 27 November 2019 05: 31 New
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                      What, on the technical side of the argument, is left? We pass, as always, to the "fifth" column? I kept waiting, when will it begin? good
                    9. lucul 27 November 2019 13: 59 New
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                      What, on the technical side of the argument, is left?

                      And what is there, is it possible to read the names of the developers on the drawing? )))
                      Even if there will be Ivanov / Petrov / Sidorov - preferably their photo.
                      And then your brother loves to hide behind Russian names ......
                    10. Dooplet11 27 November 2019 14: 10 New
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                      And then your brother likes to hide behind Russian names
                      - And you still say that it bombed me ... It bombes you not childishly in the national question. The inferiority complex torment? From illiteracy ?:
                      Did Koshkin supervise the material science of the V-2 motor, or its heat balance?
                      (C) lucul
                      And what is it really possible to read the names of developers on the drawing
                      - On the drawing you can read the post. And the dates. If you turn on your head a little, then on the same site where the drawing is located, you can find documents related to the subject of discussion, namely the names of the persons responsible for the applied air purifier. And among these individuals there will be only one surname of your nationality so unloved. Lt. Col. military engineer GABTU Kogan. And he just beats the bell about the worthless air purification. What beats your theory about the negative participation of the "God-chosen" in the story of the air purifier in all respects.
                      You still have to look for where to get to the "God chosen".
                      PS. If anything, I am Russian from the deep peasant northern regions, where you didn’t smell like the “God's chosen” unloved.
                    11. lucul 27 November 2019 14: 13 New
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                      from the deep peasant northern regions

                      Yes, I, too, "Crimean-the daughter of an officer" - you can believe me)))
                    12. Dooplet11 27 November 2019 14: 24 New
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                      So I’m saying - in the technical part, you have zero luggage, how and where to search for information are not taught, so you have to identify enemies by photographs of their faces. Sorry. Ungrateful occupation.
                2. Dooplet11 27 November 2019 14: 19 New
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                  Even if there will be Ivanov / Petrov / Sidorov - preferably their photo. And then your brother likes to hide behind Russian names ......
                  - There Koshkin, Morozov, Tarshinov ... Do you need to find their photos? I’m curious how moderators haven’t cleaned you up yet for the “passes” through “our brothers”.
                3. lucul 27 November 2019 14: 38 New
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                  I’m curious how moderators haven’t cleaned you up yet for the “passes” through “our brothers”.

                  Nothing - soon the law will be passed on foreign agents. And you are well "opened" in this thread ....
                4. Dooplet11 27 November 2019 15: 25 New
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                  As I understand it, by the nationality of the "authors" of the air purifier you already have nothing to say? Koshkin, Morozov and Co. Your face control on the photo passed. Foreign agents? For me, we’ll decide when the law on individuals-foreign agents will be adopted, we won’t get ahead of the events. While engaged in self-education in the technical part and methods of analyzing information.
  • Dooplet11 24 November 2019 18: 40 New
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    Maybe Koshkin still led the material science of the V-2 motor, or its heat balance? )))
    - The radiator for the V-2 motor as part of the T-34 was claimed by Koshkin. Consequently, he "controlled the heat balance" laughing B-2 engine as part of the T-34.
  • Elturisto 22 November 2019 20: 02 New
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    Good article. Thank you. Whoever wrote down the article about Poddubny. And then all about the main designers, and these are managers, and not always talented ... but technologists are gold! ...
    1. unknown 23 November 2019 06: 59 New
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      Yes, technology is power. By the way, the traditional historical concept began to crumble when technicians began to check its constructions.
      1. Elturisto 23 November 2019 10: 07 New
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        Do not understand about the concept of traditional?
  • bubalik 22 November 2019 20: 46 New
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    T-34 at Aberdeen Proving Ground
    The photograph relates to the T-34/76 tests in 1950, which was captured by the Americans from the Germans in France.







    at the Aberdeen Tank Museum
  • Avior 22 November 2019 20: 53 New
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    to the question why the Americans did not understand why the filter is called oil.
    in addition to Melnikov’s comments, there are actually reports of Americans
    Tests of the T-34 tank were carried out by the test officer WCCkristopher, who, together with senior lieutenant YDSewell, conducted tests of the KV-1 tank. The trials were led by captain NSTrumbl.

    5. Air purifier “Some parts of the air purifiers are apparently of manual manufacture, as a result of which they cannot be interchangeable with the corresponding parts of other air purifiers. This is especially noticeable in the distances between the six clamps supporting the filter element and the twelve clamps fastening the lower perforated circle to the filter element. In addition, the design of the air cleaner is such that the felt pad in the filter element does not have the ability to fit snugly against the central tube in the oil bath. The type of air purifier under test belongs more to air cleaners with a wet filter than to air cleaners with an oil bath. According to available information about wet air cleaners used in our country (in the USA), the effectiveness of Russian air cleaners is relatively low and they retain too little dust. This was confirmed later, after engine failure, when a large amount of dust appeared inside the engine. This air purifier is completely unsuitable for this engine. "


    Air cleaner tank T-34

    1 - lower pan; 2 - top removable cover; 3 - top grid; 4 - bottom grid; 5 - provoka-gimp
  • 113262a 22 November 2019 20: 57 New
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    Yes, diesel is pretty controversial! A lot of aviation solutions. Type ramrod connection of the cover of the main connecting rod and the connecting rod itself with a conical pin. This did not add manufacturability or reduce the cost of production, but it seems that ready-made solutions have already been taken. The same is true with the absence of crackers, locking valves, bevel gears for camshafts with spur gears .. Yes, replacing the crankshaft in the field is possible, but only with a new or polished in advance at a repair plant with an integral set of liners. As such, the repair sizes of the necks did not exist, they were polished as cleanly and pairs of liners were made for each. The design is relevant and now-modern Chelyabinsk motors have survived almost without structural changes ever since. Why didn’t the steel chrome sleeves change to something else? {Horseradish piston rings disappeared only by the 21st century, reducing oil consumption.
    1. Elturisto 23 November 2019 10: 10 New
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      Why are chrome steel rings bad?
      1. 113262a 23 November 2019 18: 12 New
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        And who was talking about rings? Sleeves, like ...
        1. Elturisto 23 November 2019 18: 18 New
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          yes shells, wrong ...
          1. 113262a 23 November 2019 20: 41 New
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            The thin-walled steel chrome sleeve is coated with porous chrome, both from the inside (the pores hold the oil film in theory and from the outside! This is where the pores when working on water lead to through corrosion. And this is up to now. Nobody interfered with the installation of cast-iron honed technology already, about 20 years old. We decided to do it in an aviation way.On d-12-400, the grandson of this motor is the most shameful malfunction!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Avior 22 November 2019 21: 19 New
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    By the way, as described in the manual, the filter is really rather not oil, but wet,

    although here, perhaps, just subtleties of terminology in different countries
    1. Amurets 23 November 2019 05: 37 New
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      Quote: Avior
      By the way, according to the description in the manual, the filter is really rather not oil, but wet, although here, perhaps, just subtleties of terminology in different countries
      The point is not in the subtleties of terminology, but in the fact that this filter really works very poorly in dusty conditions. For example, I can say that a relative ditched the new ZAZ-966 engine in a week of driving in dusty conditions so it was necessary to change the piston group. He was just too lazy to rinse the air in time
      1. Avior 23 November 2019 08: 49 New
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        According to the instructions, rinse and clean the filter on the T-34 in the summer after 10 hours of operation.
        By the way, at the same time, after 10 hours, one of the fuel line filters was disassembled and washed.
        That is still a pleasure.
        In his memoirs, Loza wrote that T34, unlike Sherman, had to be constantly maintained and adjusted according to instructions. Here you have a tank that is easy to operate, as we commonly think.
        It is unlikely that at the front every 10 hours disassembly, washing and cleaning were done.
        As for the terminology, we are talking about the discussion above, why the Americans said that they did not understand why it was called butter, some of which concluded that they did not guess to fill it with oil.
        It's just that they call it wet, because the gimp is moistened with oil.
        In fact, this type of air filter is now called inertial oil, it stood on the Zaporozhets and Volga. And yes, there were a lot of problems.
        hi
        1. Amurets 23 November 2019 09: 03 New
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          Quote: Avior
          In fact, this type of air filter is now called inertial oil, it stood on the Zaporozhets and Volga. And yes, there were a lot of problems.

          All right. Dry air vents with filtering elements and EMNIP papers appeared on Zhiguli and KAMAZ trucks. But MAZs constantly had to put spacers between the cover and the filter housing otherwise, the gap decreased to such a value that the engine began to smoke and did not pull.
      2. Dooplet11 25 November 2019 09: 33 New
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        He was just too lazy to rinse the air in time
        - This is the key. Not a filter works badly, but a lazy driver. ))))
        In dusty conditions, the filter naturally needs attention. Even "dry." It becomes clogged so that the power drops (although the “dry” one has an advantage - dust will not get into the cylinders anyway).
  • Parvis rasulov 23 November 2019 00: 16 New
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    All authors when they write about the V-2 tank diesel engine for some reason do not write about the fact that this diesel engine was made of aluminum and that it was very expensive then, it was the lack of aluminum, sometimes it became the reason for replacing the V-2 with gasoline engines on T- tanks 34 after major repairs. Then just the number of V-2 engines released casts doubt on the allegedly planed 80 thousand tanks in the USSR during the war years.
    Regarding the copied equipment and machine tools from the USA, its USSR just bought all the licenses and documentation for gold. By the way, here the article says that the fuel pumps were bought from the Germans, so it was and sights and everything that was needed for the Red Army in the USSR was purchased in the west.
    Even the famous KAMAZ and its production license was purchased in the United States, and when it was sold there for 12 years, KAMAZ cars should not be in the Soviet Army, and just before this period, deliveries of KAMAZ to the army began
    1. unknown 23 November 2019 07: 05 New
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      KAMAZ was originally created at ZIL, and was supposed to be produced at ZIL. When it was decided to build a new plant in Chelny, and transfer the new, just created ZIL model there, the ZIL was left without a new car. Yaroslavl acted wiser, they created a highly revolving, but having less potential for modernization engine. Therefore, YaMZ lost less than ZIL.
      1. Parvis rasulov 23 November 2019 23: 10 New
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        https://kramtp.info/novosti/byvalo/full/13569
    2. Elturisto 23 November 2019 10: 13 New
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      In bent ... you should be able to fuck too ...
      1. Parvis rasulov 23 November 2019 23: 29 New
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        Give at least one argument that I wrote a lie ...
        And the question is when KAMAZ was adopted by the Soviet army.
        And one more question, do you have any idea how much a ton of aluminum cost in 1940?
        Do you know that at 1941 prices the V-2 diesel engine in the T-34 tank was worth 24 percent of the total cost of the T-34 tank of the 1940 model, the price of the tank itself was 430473 rubles
        1. silenthunter 24 November 2019 01: 04 New
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          Quote: Parvis Rasulov
          Did you know that at 1941 prices a V-2 diesel engine in a T-34 tank cost 24 percent of the total cost

          And what actually surprises you !? The engine, for reference, is the heart of the tank. Yes, in any car the engine is a good such a percentage of the cost!
          Quote: Parvis Rasulov
          Give at least one argument that I wrote a lie ...

          A little lower, you are noted about BT. Firstly - BT-7s in 41 were no longer produced. Secondly - BT-7M (this is the last serial modification) was produced already with the V-2. That is, in your opinion, everything else in BT was a gift. Bottom line: - stop reading "pisuli" from dubious sources, where the author narrates on behalf of - "one grandfather told me, I don’t remember where, I don’t remember why, but he served ..." Use archives and other proven sources.
        2. sh3roman 24 November 2019 10: 34 New
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          I was very surprised at the time when I found out that our aircraft torpedo during the war cost like T34.
        3. Elturisto 24 November 2019 19: 47 New
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          Sleep again ...
          1. The first nonsense-KAMAZ on ZIL. (Incl. And engine).
          2. The second nonsense - Gasoline engines were installed due to a lack of diesel engines for production reasons, and not due to the lack of aluminum (in fact, silumin).
          3. The third nonsense - why buy a copied technique? If it has already been copied?
          4. The fourth nonsense - KAMAZ appeared in the SA after the development of an all-wheel drive modification, and not because someone forbade it. The USSR put all the US bans ...
          1. Parvis rasulov 24 November 2019 21: 48 New
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            It’s enough that you yourself wrote a production reason Just add to it, it was precisely expressed in the lack of that same Aluminum (silumin).
            Regarding the ban, then here again you are wrong, since the Kamaz Zil 170 and it is also a copied American International Cof 220.
            Regarding copying, the USSR bought out the entire production cycle with machine tools and documentation. The difference is no, it's a meat grinder or a car.
            Regarding the all-wheel drive model, right here you are writing the KAMAZ, which was naughty at all, since the 1979 Kamaz 4310 and it went to the Soviet army only in 1986
            1. Elturisto 25 November 2019 10: 18 New
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              Again on a new one. A small troll liar ...
              One needs to argue one’s position. The concept of the production cycle does not exist in this context. Humanitarianism is immediately evident ...
      2. Parvis rasulov 23 November 2019 23: 52 New
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        The price of one V-2 engine was equal to the price of a light tank BT-7 in 1941 and then one tank BT-7 cost 101094 rubles
        1. Dooplet11 25 November 2019 15: 30 New
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          The price of one V-2 engine was equal to the price of a light tank BT-7 in 1941, and then one BT-7 tank cost 101094 rubles
          - Well, you’re lying!
          тут https://zen.yandex.ru/media/worldhistory/stoimost-sovetskih-tankov-vtoroi-mirovoi-v-cifrah-5a82b8119b403c1d6e5112a4
          BT-7 1939 release - 101 094 rubles
          BT-7M 1940 release - 177 609 rubles
          T-34 (Plant No. 183):

          1939 of release - 596 373 rubles

          1940 of release - 429 256 rubles

          1941 of release - 249 256 rubles

          1942 of release - 165 810 rubles

          1943 of release - 141 822 rubles

          1944 of release - 140 996 rubles

          1945 of release - 136 380 rubles
  • Amurets 23 November 2019 01: 46 New
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    The impending war forced the leadership of the Soviet Union to force the production of a series of new models of equipment in a series, often to the detriment of workmanship. One can argue for a long time about the appropriateness of such an approach, but the fact remains that by the start of the war the V-2 was clearly a crude engine requiring changes in design. At the same time, without bringing the engine to mind, the factory workers in Kharkov received new tasks, while spraying resources.
    This phrase says it all. Yes, the diesel engine suffered from childhood diseases, but there were many controversial and unsuccessful decisions, but the engine was needed, it was urgently needed and it was necessary to bring it up during the production process, as malfunctions appeared. As A.S. Yakovlev wrote: "A product becomes defect-free only when the time comes to discontinue it, when the time comes for a new product that suffers from its childhood diseases." Regarding the organization of the production of fuel equipment, I read that women were attracted to the production of spray guns, more precisely, the drilling of spray holes, which sharply reduced the consumption of drill bits with a diameter of 05-1,0 mm. And for grinding and fine-tuning precision attracted the blind, since it is believed that they have high sensitivity of the fingers necessary for this work.
    1. unknown 23 November 2019 07: 09 New
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      The reason is the lack of succession. In all areas of life. The English have a saying that you can consider yourself an intellectual if your grandfather had a university degree. Three generations. And we have ?
      The elite, including the technical one, was physically destroyed or expelled. And the new one did not have time to appear.
      1. Elturisto 23 November 2019 10: 15 New
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        What a monstrous stupidity ... this is how one can see how the hereditary English technical elitists of the tank corps on bolts gathered-traditions of the cho ...
  • Bormanxnumx 23 November 2019 09: 18 New
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    The author writes
    aviation gasoline engine, M-100 designer V. Ya. Klimov

    M-100 is a licensed copy of the French Spanish-Suiz 12
  • Dooplet11 25 November 2019 11: 14 New
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    Mikhail Usov, "Last" thirty-four "in the first echelon"
    http://booksonline.com.ua/view.php?book=163978&page=5
    The most interesting features of the post-war operation of the T-34 in the GSVG.
    1. Dooplet11 25 November 2019 11: 28 New
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      There are also about those responsible for changes in the tank. And about the maintenance of air purifiers:


      1. Dooplet11 25 November 2019 11: 33 New
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        here's another:

        Even with Multicyclones, air cleaning required attention. So, probably, the Americans themselves “clicked” the condition of the filters because they did not know their features and the order of service, and not the filters “bad”.
  • Comrade Kim 25 November 2019 14: 26 New
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    Quote: lucul
    surely the chosen ones again.

    And here it is?
    There were errors; in wartime, some nodes were generally simplified.
    At the machine tools stood 14-year-old boys, women.
  • Dedok 28 November 2019 10: 12 New
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    The article did not convince.
    From scratch to create an internal combustion engine that could live for more than 50 years is impossible. Even in a fairy tale.
    (Remembering how diesel was born for Kamaz in the mid-70s, I can doubt the birth of the engine from scratch. Yes, and recalling the history of the birth of aircraft engines - there were import licenses all around).
    Therefore, comments about aluminum are not casual: to a locomotive design bureau this material is unfamiliar / unfamiliar.
    In terms of fuel equipment, there is also no clarity, although everyone understands that this is Bosch.