Military Review

What distinguishes the 4 generation fighter from the 5 generation: in the West they tried to figure it out

62

Browser Alex Hollings at Sofrep, a western resource specializing in military and military-technical issues, publishes material that discusses the nuances of fifth-generation fighters. It is noted that today several countries have developed their fifth-generation fighter jets or are engaged in such kind of development, while there are no exact parameters for “when the aircraft suddenly ceases to belong to the 4 generation and goes one step higher.” In the article, Hollings tries to sort things out.


From the material:

The obvious thing is that the F-16 Fighting Falcon is a fourth-generation fighter, but today there is a difficult debate as to whether, for example, the Chinese J-20 fighter is a more advanced generation.

Hollings notes the generally accepted parameters and characteristics that should position the fighter as belonging to the 5 generation. So, the ability of such fighters to act in the airspace of the enemy with a minimal threat of detection is called.

Here it is necessary (for its part) to recall that the Chinese J-20 were detected (at least, as they stated some time ago in the Indian Air Force) by Su-30MKI aircraft of the Indian Air Force. If so, then the criterion mentioned by Hollings should infer the J-20 from the fifth generation fighter class.

Another parameter, called the Western browser, is the location of the main weapons of the 5 generation fighter in the internal compartments. According to him, the use of weapons on external suspensions is a minus for the aircraft - from the point of view of its detection. At the same time, it can be stated that aircraft that are declared as representatives of the 5 generation class still use external rockets and bombs.

Hollings:

Also, speaking of fifth-generation fighters, they indicate their super maneuverability. But this is a controversial detail. Even the F-35, which is considered the standard of the 5 generation fighter, a low-visibility aircraft, may turn out to be the loser in terms of maneuverability for the aircraft of the earlier generation - the fourth.

As a result, the author of the material states that today the ability to be a real command center for other means can become an obvious parameter of a fifth-generation fighter aviation, including attack drones, when performing joint operations.

If we talk about such a parameter, then the American F-35, as well as the Russian Su-57, passing one of the stages of flight tests with the C-70 UAV “Hunter”, are suitable for it. The Chinese J-20 is once again out of this class.
62 comments
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  1. Honest Citizen
    Honest Citizen 19 November 2019 09: 21
    +7
    Clear. They humiliate the Chinese and are satisfied ...
    Next time they will tell that the Su-57 is also not 5 generations, but 4, or even the third ...
    Penguins are such penguins
    1. Vladimir16
      Vladimir16 19 November 2019 13: 07
      +8
      "Fifth Generation" at this point in time is more a marketing slogan than a definition of a fighter.
      These same marketers are fighting for markets.
      Pour shit on a competitor.

      Meanwhile, there is no access to the true characteristics of the aircraft.

      And what's the difference what generation if in the SU-35 sight we see the F-22?

      And what if the "best in the world" Patriots miss "ancient" rockets and self-made UAVs?
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 19 November 2019 09: 21
    +6
    And the right question has been raised! Where, by the way, is there a criterion that separates these generations and allows some Western countries to declare that they have begun designing the sixth? I agree with the author!
    1. Geosun
      Geosun 19 November 2019 10: 00
      +5
      In general, the criteria of the 5th generation are: effective dispersion surface (ESR) <0,01 m² and the ability to fly at supersonic speed without afterburner. And for the 6th generation everything also applies + the absence of a pilot.
      1. Civil
        Civil 19 November 2019 10: 16
        +3
        Quote: Geosun
        In general, the criteria of the 5th generation are: effective dispersion surface (ESR) <0,01 m² and the ability to fly at supersonic speed without afterburner. And for the 6th generation everything also applies + the absence of a pilot.

        Optional - the presence of a pilot. Work in a swarm.
      2. Sky strike fighter
        Sky strike fighter 19 November 2019 10: 25
        +2
        Quote: Geosun
        In general, the criteria of the 5th generation are: effective dispersion surface (ESR) <0,01 m² and the ability to fly at supersonic speed without afterburner. And for the 6th generation everything also applies + the absence of a pilot.

        Not only. Other flight speeds and the ability to gain altitude to the borders of the Cosmos are needed. Like that.
        Roskosmos specialists developed a combined engine scheme combining the capabilities of an air-jet engine and a liquid-propellant rocket engine. The invention, as stated in the description thereto, "can be used to create an aerospace horizontal launch system or to create an aircraft that will be able to carry out short-term flight at hypersonic speed."
        This engine is proposed to be used mainly on an accelerator aircraft, which will take off from the airfield, pick up speed up to six Machs and, acting as a kind of first stage, launch a rocket from its board into space.

        https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/127130/
        1. VO3A
          VO3A 19 November 2019 11: 12
          +5
          Those who do not understand the essence of the 5th generation aircraft cannot formulate the requirements for the 6th generation aircraft ... This applies not only to ordinary inhabitants, but also to entire headquarters and military leadership of many countries! The Europeans say that they are building a 6th-generation aircraft ... Let them rave on ...
        2. Sidor Amenpodestovich
          Sidor Amenpodestovich 19 November 2019 12: 27
          0
          It also seems to me that one of the distinctive properties of the sixth generation will be the ability to act both in the air and in space. And not only swarm management.
      3. Ka-52
        Ka-52 19 November 2019 11: 11
        +3
        In general, the criteria of the 5th generation are: effective dispersion surface (ESR) <0,01 m² and the ability to fly at supersonic speed without afterburner. And for the 6th generation everything also applies + the absence of a pilot.

        all this is nonsense and stupidity. The criteria for the designed machine are set by the customer. That is, MO. It denotes the requirements for a combat vehicle, based on the specifics of its tasks. Development companies based on terms of reference design the image of the future car. In the technical requirements (or technical requirements) ALL expected parameters of the aircraft are registered. Hundreds of them... And designers and designers work with them. And all your "criteria of the 5th generation" is either marketing or an informational lead for the media to use languages. Have you ever seen TK and TT with your own eyes? So I can, proudly state that the criterion of the 5th generation is an integrated glider - and everyone who has a different layout with a broom under the butt from the category of "modern aircraft" lol
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 19 November 2019 12: 33
          +1
          The main criterion for the new generation is that it replaces the previous one. This is the new generation, how your child is born; he is the new generation regarding you. And it's not about the characteristics or attributes. Characteristics derive from requirements, requirements from the tactics and strategies of the intended application.
      4. Mark1
        Mark1 19 November 2019 11: 35
        +7
        Quote: Geosun
        In general, the criteria of the 5th generation are accepted: effective dispersion surface (ESR) <0,01 mXNUMX ...

        Geosun (Alexander), judging by your statements, 5th generation aircraft do not existsince F-22 (F-35) average (for calculations) Image intensifier = 0,3-0,5 m2... A F-35 has supersonic cruising speed on throughout the flight, without afterburner, and therefore not a 5th generation airplane!
        1. Geosun
          Geosun 19 November 2019 13: 00
          +2
          I completely agree with you. The EPR of f22 only in the frontal projection corresponds to the declared characteristics. And EPR and EOP, for example, Americans calculate differently, but this is not the point. It’s just that the basic requirements for the 5 generation are accepted: To the engine, supersonic without afterburner, and To the glider, low reflectivity. Now they are trying to add here the placement of weapons inside the hull and the ability to control a swarm. Therefore, more and more confusion arises.
          1. abrakadabre
            abrakadabre 20 November 2019 08: 06
            0
            To the engine - supersonic without afterburner
            It is impossible to make such a requirement a priori to the engine. Because put it on a light plane - there will be a hellish racer, and put it on a heavy transporter, the result will be much less speed. Again, in the same weight category: put it on a glider like an old biplane, there will be some flight characteristics, and on an SR-71 type glider, they will be completely different. With the same weight.
            Glider low reflectivity
            Again a little wrong. Only a complex of external contours with the appropriate coating gives the result.
            Now here they are trying to add another placement of weapons inside the case
            Tu-95 and B-52 ... and even B-17, TB-3 and many others, very often carry or carry their payload inside the fuselage. But they are not the 5th generation. And do not talk about the fact that these are bombers. F-35 is also actually a frontal bomber.
      5. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 22 November 2019 15: 40
        0
        Quote: Geosun
        In general, 5th generation criteria are accepted

        who accepted?
        ability to act in the air defense zone can be provided not only with low ESR but also with electronic warfare. will a 4th generation airplane turn into a 5th generation by hanging an EW container?
        about (EPR) <0,01 m², and some do not hesitate to write and 0,001 m², this is nonsense of journalists for ordinary people who do not even have a superficial idea of ​​what radar and EPR are. apparently those who write this represent the F-35 in the form of a ball laughing
        by the way about supersonic ... something in the F-35 it is such a supersonic that the bomber can not catch up bully
    2. VO3A
      VO3A 19 November 2019 10: 34
      +2
      As a result, the author of the material states that today, the obvious parameter of a fifth-generation fighter can be the ability to be a real command center for other aircraft, including attack drones, when performing joint operations.

      The author has not finalized, not only for aviation !!! The 5th generation airplane is the main element of the network-centric system or the Combat Information System ... This is the essence of the 5th generation airplane. And to be so, it must have the basic features that everyone likes to list, including invisibility ... The airplane outside the LSI ceases to be a 5th generation aircraft, although it may have all the signs for this. These signs provide him with a certain advantage over the aircraft and the 4th generation, and as part of the LSI, these advantages are significant ... LSI provide an advantage both on land and at sea ... And here the 5th generation airplane is the main element of such a system ... To do this, he needs real-time information exchange channels, and the LSI should include devices that can use this information ... All these devices, weapons systems exchange information and use it in real time to destroy the enemy .... You already 5 years talk about it, but most of the farther away the aircraft lacks imagination ...It’s not a plane matter, or rather not a plane, it should be able to work as part of a system ...
      1. niksfromru
        niksfromru 19 November 2019 11: 13
        +5
        As soon as the plane turns on all its "channels of information exchange in real time" - it immediately loses the property of "stealth", regardless of the use of stealth technologies in its design. It is no coincidence that the F-117s, striking Yugoslavia, went in complete radio silence. So LSI and stealth are two incompatible things.
        1. VO3A
          VO3A 19 November 2019 11: 18
          -4
          Well, it’s your prehistoric fantasies .. Ways and methods of transmitting information are developing, and you don’t even have the imagination to do this .... Just think, for example, why does the plane work in conjunction with an UAV? It is difficult to talk with a person who does not think further than one move, and is happy with each of his stupid notion ...
          1. dvina71
            dvina71 19 November 2019 12: 04
            +3
            Quote: VO3A
            Well, it’s your prehistoric fantasies .. Ways and methods of transmitting information are developing

            From now on in more detail? Since when has EMP ceased to be a "substance" of data transmission?
      2. Something
        Something 19 November 2019 12: 04
        +10
        Quote: VO3A
        ... This is the essence of the 5th generation airplane. And to be so, it must have the basic features that everyone likes to list, including stealth... ... for this he needs real-time communication channels... All these devices, weapons systems exchange information and use it in real time to destroy the enemy.... You have been told about this for 5 years, and most of the farther away the aircraft lack imagination ...It's not about the planeor rather not quite on the plane, he should be able to work as part of the system...

        VO3A (Andrey), you, like many in VO, make a mistake - invisible or inconspicuous airplanes in nature does not exist, therefore it will be correct stealth in your statement. When sharing informationusing a 5th generation airplane as a command unit (and not necessarily) the airplane loses its stealth, one contradicts the other as a result ... As a result, when an airplane is operating as part of a system, it cannot be a 5th generation aircraft in full according to stealth.
        1. Volkof
          Volkof 19 November 2019 16: 00
          +4
          To transmit the coordinates of the station or launchers ... in the form of a short pulse - will this make the aircraft noticeable? Or take a signal for pointing your weapon, in general, in a passive mode ... A 5th generation aircraft can be a scout and strike means, and a decision center, both simultaneously and covertly. That is why it stands out among other elements of the overall combat modern system ....
          1. Something
            Something 19 November 2019 18: 08
            +9
            Quote: Volkof
            Transmit station or launcher coordinates ... as a short pulse - will it make the plane noticeable? Or take a signal to aim your weapon, in general, in passive mode ...

            Volkof, as soon as you turn on your prd (transmitter) and there will be radiation, the detection system will work on the enemy aircraft or on the ground, then you can get a missile from the ARGSN at your coordinates. And you write _ "will it make the plane visible?" - planes inconspicuous does not exist, there are hardly noticeable. The principle of storing radiation and determining the direction to the emitted object is well established on anti-radar missiles and is also developing.
            In addition, the N036 "Belka" Su-57 radar will detect the F-35 (image intensifier = 0,3 m2) approximately at a distance of D = 295 km in free space, and the N035 Irbis Su-35S radar will detect the F-35 at approximately D = 225 km.
        2. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 20 November 2019 08: 15
          0
          When exchanging information using a 5th generation aircraft as a command unit (and not necessarily), the aircraft loses its stealth, one contradicts the other ...
          Only in the case of a wide signal from an airplane. In the case of using a narrow antenna, this disadvantage is leveled. And here it is not necessary to use a laser beam. Enough angle of divergence of 10-20 degrees. In addition, it is possible to train the aircraft in the case of vigorous aerobatics to conduct outgoing radio communications intermittently, when the aircraft occupies an appropriate position in relation to the radar and detected enemy aircraft. Not a panacea, but greatly contributes to maintaining low visibility. And at the reception to work as usual.

          In general, an AWAKS-like option is much better suited as a command center. Especially coupled with satellite constellation.
          1. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 22 November 2019 15: 55
            0
            Quote: abrakadabre
            In the case of using a narrow antenna, this disadvantage is leveled.

            How will we determine the direction of operation of this antenna?
            What to do if the node to which the antenna was directed is eliminated?
            the theory is beautiful, and in the USA they are already working on it, but it looks like the result is like with a railgun ...
            1. abrakadabre
              abrakadabre 25 November 2019 09: 26
              0
              How will we determine the direction of operation of this antenna?
              The direction can be determined even by an ordinary one-hundredth (telephone), the device is incomparably simpler than a CIRCU of an airplane.
              What to do if the node to which the antenna was directed is eliminated?
              The node can be deep behind (AWACS) or in orbit. And here the directivity angle of 10-30 degrees only contributes to the leveling of the directivity errors. However, most of the sphere remains non-radiative.
              the theory is beautiful, and in the USA they are already working on it, but it looks like the result is like with a railgun ...
              I am not a developer. He simply suggested the most obvious solutions to the problem of radio silence-the inclusion of communications for aircraft with very low ESR. Most likely, it is in these areas that designers work. And on their part, and on ours.
              1. Sanichsan
                Sanichsan 26 November 2019 17: 26
                0
                Quote: abrakadabre
                The direction can be determined even by an ordinary one-hundredth (telephone), the device is incomparably simpler than a CIRCU of an airplane.

                it is a broadband signal. You have reported narrowly targeted. with a narrow focus this will not work. The problem with the American system is that it only functions when it is known where the receiver is, but as soon as the connection is interrupted it is very difficult to restore.
      3. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 22 November 2019 15: 51
        0
        Quote: VO3A
        It’s not a plane matter, or rather not a plane, it should be able to work as part of a system ...

        I agree, but then the philosophical question arises - if an aircraft, F-35 for example, has such capabilities, at least with the same F-35, but all other weapons systems, both land and sea, and other aircraft, do not have such capabilities , then can the F-35 be considered a 5th generation aircraft? in other words, can there be a 5th generation without LSI? if not then 5 generation aircraft not yet wink
  3. GRF
    GRF 19 November 2019 09: 21
    +4
    marketing...
    1. Victor_B
      Victor_B 19 November 2019 09: 32
      +8
      Quote: GRF
      marketing...

      He is!
      Here they clung to this term "fifth generation"!
      The Americans made an F-22 for themselves, and the whole complex of its chips was called the fifth generation.
      Even the F-35, which is considered the standard of the 5th generation fighter, low visibility aircraft
      at the same time, this "standard" does not even match their own definition.
      Another parameter, called the western observer, is the location of the main weapons of the 5th generation fighter in the internal compartments. According to him, the use of weapons on external suspensions is a minus for the aircraft - from the point of view of its detection
      The F-35's internal compartments are quite small and it’s just impossible to push weapons there to full capacity.
      T.O. F-35 in the shock version will carry most of the external load.
      Well, "hello stealth"!
      At the same time and with cruising supersonic he does not have ice!
      1. Victor_B
        Victor_B 19 November 2019 09: 44
        +3
        But the Americans said the F-35 fifth generation, that everyone will "worship".
    2. askort154
      askort154 19 November 2019 10: 23
      +4
      GRF marketing...

      And no more ! yes The boundary between generations is clear - between a piston and a jet, between a pilot-controlled and an unmanned aircraft.
      Making the border a dubious "stealth", the presence of external suspensions or electronic "bells and whistles" - this is progress in modernization, and nothing more.
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 20 November 2019 08: 23
        0
        The boundary between generations is clear - between a piston and a jet, between a pilot-controlled and an unmanned aircraft.
        In your list of radical differences, you can still add cruising hypersound and / or full-time, non-short-term work in two environments - air-space. Mass transition to jet detonation combustion engines can also be set as a criterion (like piston-jet). Because it will give an abrupt increase in speed characteristics (if the glider allows)
    3. Ka-52
      Ka-52 19 November 2019 11: 21
      +1
      GRF (Eugene) Today, 09:21
      marketing..

      the only correct answer among the many sofa disputes above))
      1. VO3A
        VO3A 19 November 2019 11: 31
        0
        It's all? Is German tank wedges on wedges also marketing?
        The point was not entirely in the tanks, but rather, how to use them and what properties they should have for this ....
  4. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 19 November 2019 09: 28
    0
    Here it is necessary (for its part) to recall that the Chinese J-20 were detected (at least, as they stated some time ago in the Indian Air Force) by Su-30MKI aircraft of the Indian Air Force. If so, then the criterion mentioned by Hollings should infer the J-20 from the fifth generation fighter class.
    Most likely, he specifically increased his EPR. The usual practice for such a new aircraft in peacetime.
  5. jonht
    jonht 19 November 2019 09: 28
    +3
    What are these parameters recourse?
    If the TTX condition is set by customers, and they all have their own requirements. Yes, and the MIG-31 then, too, from 3 should jump to 5, like a control plane .....
    So only a combination of such parameters can be of critical importance. hi
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 19 November 2019 13: 15
      0
      And the su-30 there too.
  6. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 19 November 2019 09: 30
    +5
    I think after installing a new engine on the Su-57, this will be the fifth generation (conditionally) fighter. Combinations of speed, maneuverability, control, weapons and a lower percentage of visibility. And the F-5 penguin possess only a part of the criteria of the 35th generation.
  7. paul3390
    paul3390 19 November 2019 09: 48
    +2
    As for the command reins, it’s also debatable .. At the training ground, yes, it looks bully, but if the incomparably more powerful and diverse electronic warfare will begin to crush from the ground? Will a penguin be able to command something in such an environment?
  8. Amateur
    Amateur 19 November 2019 09: 51
    +4
    As a result, the author of the material states that today, the obvious parameter of a fifth-generation fighter can be the ability to be a real command center for other aircraft, including attack drones, when performing joint operations.

    At one time, the military did not actually accept the Ka-50 due to the fact that it is too difficult to simultaneously pilot a helicopter and use weapons for one person. The single-seat F-35 is also invited to operate a "swarm of drones." Who should be the pilot of such an airplane?
    The criterion by which the product should be evaluated - an airplane, a submarine or a tank - is the ability to fulfill the task at the current time.
    Fulfilled the assessment of 5 - fifth generation, 4 - fourth generation, etc. In this case, the presence / absence of AFAR, dynamic protection or rainbow color should not matter. There is only one criterion - the ability to fulfill the task for which the product is intended. I think that no one will argue that the highly specialized MiG-31 is and will for some time be the best fighter-interceptor. And the SR-71 is the best scout. To which generation can they be attributed?
    Well, the question of fashion is better left to women.
  9. abc_alex
    abc_alex 19 November 2019 09: 54
    +10
    Well, even so, "through China" but also the US media gets the idea that the "fifth generation" is nothing more than a marketing trick designed to justify the explosive growth in the price of the F22 and F-35 aircraft. No one has ever divided aviation into generations, has not developed criteria for division and signs of compliance. It's just that at one point the US PR specialists suddenly announced that the Raptor is the "fifth generation". And then they added that Lighting-2 is the fifth generation at all. And the US media outlets began to circulate this idea as rabid. At the same time, if you look at it, then there are no fundamental differences between this pair and the aircraft of previous "generations", and even more so any fundamental innovations.

    Reduced radio visibility? This is a general trend in the development of aviation since the advent of the radar.
    A weapon inside the case? The classic solution for the bomber, migrated to the fighter niche, is controversial.
    A radar station with AFAR, from which adherents of the state military-industrial complex and local liberals fall on their backs with a shout of "ho"? In general, in my opinion, this cannot be a sign of a generation, since it is a module and how a module can be installed on any aircraft capable of providing it with dimensions, power supply and signal processing.
    It's the same with "advanced electronics".
    Cruising supersonic? Not only did some aircraft have this feature, and up to the "fifth generation", the Penguin was also subsonic.
    Super maneuverability? So from the point of view of the national school, US aircraft do not have it. And the state people themselves admit this through clenched teeth, claiming that they have "their own view" on this parameter, they see it as "increased situational awareness."
    Versatility of use? So the Raptor is limited in its work on the ground, and Lightning-2 is extremely controversial in the role of a fighter.
    Even the second "ho" of the adepts is the system of data exchange between the board and others, in fact only a wish. She doesn't really work on the Raptor and it is not known if she works on the Penguin. Moreover, it is not at all clear how to implement all this in the "stealth" mode.
    1. Volkof
      Volkof 19 November 2019 16: 17
      0
      You forgot that this is the century of information technology ... The armies of backward countries will be destroyed so that they don’t even notice where and who ... To destroy armies of other countries as well, you need a 5th generation airplane and its interaction with other weapon systems in real time ... About which marketing are you talking about?
      1. bk316
        bk316 19 November 2019 18: 08
        +1
        You forgot that now is the age of information technology ..

        Young man, you just rave about where the fifth generation fighter and information technology.
        WELL WHAT SUCH INFORMATION TECHNOLOGIES did the F-22 have?
        Unfinished link-16?
        So he and the F-15 is ....
      2. abc_alex
        abc_alex 19 November 2019 20: 45
        0
        Quote: Volkof
        To destroy the armies of other countries in the same way, you need a 5th generation aircraft and its interaction with other weapons systems in real time ... What kind of marketing are we talking about?


        About the stupid condom stubborn merciless marketing. To destroy the armies of other countries, means have been developed long ago that are much cheaper and more reliable. For example, the same CD.
    2. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 20 November 2019 08: 29
      0
      Over-maneuverability? So from the point of view of the domestic school, the US planes do not possess it.
      Moreover, strictly speaking, WWII aircraft possessed super-maneuverability, which most of the younger jet brothers did not even dream of.
      1. abc_alex
        abc_alex 20 November 2019 17: 10
        0
        Quote: abrakadabre
        Moreover, strictly speaking, WWII aircraft were super maneuverable

        Not certainly in that way. High maneuverability is one thing, and super maneuverability is another. Super maneuverability is the ability of an aircraft to maintain direction of movement by changing its position in the air. That is, the plane should fly forward, even with its nose up or down.
  10. Elephant
    Elephant 19 November 2019 09: 56
    0
    Soon everyone will have to compare with the Chinese J-31, an interesting alignment is expected.
  11. rocket757
    rocket757 19 November 2019 10: 32
    +4
    What distinguishes the 4 generation fighter from the 5 generation: in the West they tried to figure it out

    Why is that not clear! All that is / say that is, in the planes "maid in USA", this is the fifth ... and what others have, even better, is NOT-NOT-NOT!
  12. Maks1995
    Maks1995 19 November 2019 11: 39
    +1
    How much can you grind the same thing, and even from confused experts ...
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 20 November 2019 08: 30
      0
      moreover from confused experts ...
      from the word confused? wassat
      1. Maks1995
        Maks1995 20 November 2019 14: 20
        0
        No, I haven’t reached such a point ....
        But you correctly noticed ...
  13. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 19 November 2019 11: 46
    0
    The Chinese have both UAVs and J20s and more and more than ours .... did everyone think of flying together, but the Chinese do not? But 5g communication was developed before everyone else.
  14. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 19 November 2019 11: 48
    -2
    So it was at the transition from the 3rd to the 4th.
    The USSR has long been contemptuous of the single-engine F-16, not recognizing it as a representative of the 4th generation. At the same time respecting the F-15.
    1. abc_alex
      abc_alex 19 November 2019 20: 51
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The USSR has long been contemptuous of the single-engine F-16, not recognizing it as a representative of the 4th generation. At the same time respecting the F-15.


      ??? Where did you get this? About the F-16? I’ll leave your fantasy of being unrecognized by the fourth generation, since no one in the USSR has ever divided airplanes into generations, but where did you get the contempt for the F-16 in the USSR?
  15. Lone gunman
    Lone gunman 19 November 2019 11: 48
    -5
    have you seen how f-22 or f-35 are being assembled ?! Here's something ... the main thing is the technical process - so that there is a production line, so that there are "machines" and 3D printers, etc., of course, you can make a "body kit" and assemble an airplane on the "knees", but that's another ... will fall ... Russians will continue to collect "two airplanes" a year, and "machines" and competencies are located outside the Russian Federation.
    1. bk316
      bk316 19 November 2019 17: 57
      +1
      you saw how they collect f-22

      Now, apparently, they cannot ....
      Deindustrialization is so contagious. laughing
      1. Lone gunman
        Lone gunman 19 November 2019 18: 15
        -1
        Yes, I think ... that something is wrong with the F-22, either there are outrageous technologies, or there are out-of-the-box technologies, and from year to year the question is raised to Gangress, and not whether we should "print" the F-22, after another exacerbation in the world ... And the plane just flew away, I can't imagine what will happen to the sixth generation.
        1. bk316
          bk316 19 November 2019 18: 17
          +1
          from year to year the question is raised, and not whether we should "print" another F-22, p

          And every time "no is too expensive". That is, they do not "print" it, namely what they "cut out" ....
          And then it’s just a matter of money, for a trillion bucks we can easily build 200 su-57
          1. Lone gunman
            Lone gunman 19 November 2019 18: 31
            -1
            "And every time" no is too expensive. "That is, it is" not printed ", namely that" cut out "...."
            they don’t cut it because it is too expensive - the technology is expensive and beyond, Yu.S. EI. must be sure at all 1000% that the planes will go into business, if they give the go-ahead, then consider the war not far off, a major war, but not a global one, someone has not yet canceled the thermonuclear fusion.
            1. bk316
              bk316 19 November 2019 20: 11
              +1
              Well, yes, yes
              And the plane is certainly good especially for its time, right at the top of American aircraft construction. And I must say that they had such ups ....
  16. bk316
    bk316 19 November 2019 17: 55
    +1
    Well, what are you up to. The issue has long been resolved.
    The term generation is introduced solely for marketing purposes.
    Type as dual cortex and cortex duo laughing
    So the correct answer is PRICE.

    Even how to compare the processors are still arguing, let alone airplanes ....
  17. 123456789
    123456789 19 November 2019 17: 55
    0
    It doesn’t matter whether the cat is black or white. A good cat is one that catches mice.
  18. poquello
    poquello 19 November 2019 17: 57
    +2
    As a result, the author of the material states that today, the obvious parameter of a fifth-generation fighter can be the ability to be a real command center for other aircraft, including attack drones, when performing joint operations.

    u, toucan with an electronics pylon steers
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