Ukraine received its ships and a new warning from Russia

The Russian Foreign Ministry commented on the transfer to Ukraine of warships detained by Russian border guards during a deliberate armed provocation near the Kerch Strait in November last year.

The Foreign Ministry confirmed that on November 18 all the ships (boats and tugboat) were transferred to Kiev for safekeeping. This became possible, since Russian law enforcement officers have already completed with them all the necessary investigative actions in the case of illegal border crossing, and their further stay on Russian territory is not necessary.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs also reiterated Moscow’s official position on last year’s incident. According to this position, the then Kiev authorities deliberately issued a criminal order to their military personnel, which led to the violation of the state borders of the Russian Federation and all subsequent events. At the same time, Ukrainian citizens themselves, who received such an order from their own leadership, were deliberately endangered.

It was noted that Russia will continue to suppress such acts in order to ensure safe navigation in accordance with its legislation and international law. This is a warning to the new authorities of Ukraine.

The press service of the Ukrainian Navy, meanwhile, reports:

Ukrainian boats Nikopol, Berdyansk and the tugboat Yany Kapu are heading home. Got your ships.

Today, on November 18, in the Black Sea, a process has begun to return the Ukrainian boats Nikopol, Berdyansk and the tugboat Yana Kapu. Now the Ukrainian tugboats “Titan”, “Gaydamak” and the search and rescue vessel “Sapphire”, together with the boats and the tugboat, started moving towards mainland Ukraine.

Users have already ridiculed the passage of Ukrainian boats along the Kerch Strait:

They wanted to pass under the Crimean bridge and passed, like the Germans, also passed through Moscow.

Now, from these vessels the Ukrainian authorities should take casts and distribute them to all museums in Ukraine - for the sake of laughter.

And as soon as the Ukrainian boats did not collide with the supports of the Crimean bridge, after all, Ukrainian scientists repeatedly warned that the supports were “moving”. They say they saw it. Interferometry and Google maps were even referenced ...

Recall that earlier the Ukrainian boats “Berdyansk” and “Nikopol”, as well as the tugboat “Yana Kapu”, the Federal Security Service removed from the evidence in the case of armed violation of the sea borders of Russia. Wherein weapon and airborne records, which were at the time of the Ukrainian provocation, did not return to Kiev.

Comments

[Thrifty]

It was necessary to give them all the same to the republics with the wording "transferred to ukroine" It was necessary to troll this Maidan Shushar.

[Svarog]

Quote: Thrifty

It was necessary to give them all the same to the republics with the wording "transferred to ukroine."

Do LDNR consider themselves Ukraine? It was not necessary to give anything at all .. they owe us so much that it’s time to arrest everything in a row ..

[Thrifty]

Svarog, the Kremlin considers the republics to be part of Ukraine, and if so, then God himself ordered the ships to be given to the republics!

[Lexus]

then God himself ordered the ships to be given to the republics!

Their moshna obliges the West to grovel.

[Vladimir16]

Quote: Thrifty

It was not necessary to give anything at all ..

Quote: lexus

God himself ordered the ships to be given to the republics!

Quote: lexus

Apparently, "someone" decided to outshine the marked Judas

Quote: Greg Miller

Shame ...

Quote: Greg Miller

Toothless leadership of Russia

Everything is lost !!!
Gentlemen, a glass of grief?
Pour bitter "shame"?
Do not be sad, akhijakova will help you.

[Chit]

Nobody really is sad. People are just thinking.
The Ukrainian boats "Berdyansk" and "Nikopol" with the tugboat "Yany Kapu" were returned by Moscow.
The Russian bulk carrier "Mikhail Pogodin" still crows in Kherson. The Russian seiner "Nord" is still dangling in Berdyansk. Russian tanker NEYMA is in Izmail.
Does this suggest any thoughts?
Only one word comes to my mind when analyzing the situation - "deflection". Whom and in front of whom is clear.
No, of course, it is clear that Russia was forced to give boats after a well-known decision. There is no reason to risk your ships in foreign ports. And so they kind of saved their face, hiding behind a gesture of goodwill.
But the feeling is still incomprehensible ...

[siemens7774]

And what a well-known decision? The maritime tribunal has no right to legally consider border and military conflicts at sea. Only civil ones. So with your decision, you can go far into the forest

[figwam]

The outskirts of the fleet has revived!

[Dmitry Donskoy]

Now she is a full sea power

[alexmach]

It was not necessary to give anything at all .. they owe us so much that it’s time to arrest everything in a row.

there is no sense in these boats, they also do not pose a special threat. And so a good gesture towards the Normandy meeting ... another thing is that it was not worth letting the sailors go ...

[Sayan]

Quote: Svarog

Quote: Thrifty

It was necessary to give them all the same to the republics with the wording "transferred to ukroine."

Do LDNR consider themselves Ukraine? It was not necessary to give anything at all .. they owe us so much that it’s time to arrest everything in a row ..

And why do we need this scrap metal, the storage of which also costs money, let their pelvis be taken away, but the crews should not have been freed.

[sniperino]

Quote: Sayan

crews vainly freed

Those released from Ukrainian prisons would not agree with you. Sailors are military men, but who needs to go to a failure to fulfill an order without a clear understanding of its legal aspects ... Or am I confusing something about the crews? SBUshnik seemed to be in charge there.

[elfik]

Quote: Svarog

Quote: Thrifty

It was necessary to give them all the same to the republics with the wording "transferred to ukroine."

Do LDNR consider themselves Ukraine? It was not necessary to give anything at all .. they owe us so much that it’s time to arrest everything in a row ..

Of course, they owe us - for example, the fishing boat "Nord", but they are not going to give it to us and laugh at our concessions

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Svarog

Do LDNR consider themselves Ukraine? It was not necessary to give anything at all .. they owe us so much that it’s time to arrest everything in a row ..

In this case, it is unimportant what the LDNR thinks. What matters is that Kiev considers the LDNR to be Ukraine. Therefore, by handing over the boats and the tug to the LDNR, Moscow kills two birds with one stone: it returns the boats and the tug to Ukraine, and creates the LDNR Navy. It remains only to assign the rank of Rear Admiral to any miner and appoint him commander of the LDNR Navy. Yaneloch 6 would write with boiling water.

[Greg Miller]

The violators were released, the ships were handed over, they were threatened with a finger ... Why were they even detained then? It's a shame ... Ukraine is not even going to return the seiner "Nord" or the tanker "Mechanic Pogodin."

[Thrifty]

Treg, as Pugachev sings, is there still to be. ..

[carstorm 11]

private traders have their own decisions. let them sue. they were not forcibly driven there. Moreover, warnings about this are constantly coming. but until they get there, they don’t understand. as for these pelvis and what to do with them?) to burn like children with a cry, so do you need it? What shame did you see? they were harshly received and detained by all. want to shoot them or what? no matter what the clown state is, but 404 still has the status of a state. and some relationships remain. they showed what to do not need to and let them think.

[1976AG]

Quote: Greg Miller

The violators were released, the ships were handed over, they were threatened with a finger ... Why were they even detained then? It's a shame ... Ukraine is not even going to return the seiner "Nord" or the tanker "Mechanic Pogodin."

And delayed to capture valuable boats? I didn’t know ... Or did you just have to let it go to the bottom?

[K-612-O]

On the question of these boats, so that you do not get bombed.
(O. Sapozhnikov): "RAFail." The fate of the ship that lowered the flag.

(From the Telegram channel: Tomorrow the ships that surrendered in the Kerch Strait will be returned to the Ukrainians).

...

On May 11, 1829, an event took place in the history of the Russian Navy, which sailors still do not like to recall.

On this day, the Russian frigate Rafail, under the command of the second-rank captain Stroinikov, encountered the superior forces of the Turkish fleet.
Unable to tear himself away from the enemy, and being surrounded, the Russian frigate lowered the flag.

According to the Maritime Charter, surrender of a ship in battle is an indelible disgrace for both the crew and the ship itself.

Nicholas I reacted to the message about the surrender of Rafail:

“Hoping for the help of the Almighty, I am in the hope that the undaunted Black Sea fleet, burning with the desire to wash away the ingloriousness of the frigate Rafail, will not leave it in the hands of the enemy. But when he will be returned to our power, then revered this frigate is no longer worthy to wear the Russian flag and serve along with the other vessels of our fleet, I command you to put it on fire. "

After the war, a military court was held.
The verdict read:
“Captain 2nd rank Stroinikov ... for inconsistent with the gathering of the council, and his indecision involved in the same indecision all the officers subordinate to him ...; for the incorrect report on the resistance of the lower ranks and that many of them, due to the pitching, were not in their places, and finally, for the surrender of the frigate without a fight - to be executed by death. Officers for non-obstruction, according to the content of the article 73, the surrender of the frigate - to execute by death. The lower ranks, with the exception of those who were in the kryute chambers, the hold and the cockpit, for failure to take measures, by the force of the same article - to execute death by the tenth lot ”

The emperor commuted the sentence:
“Lieutenant Brown, warrant officer Verdeman, doctor Dorogonevsky, skipper assistant Tsygankov and all lower ranks - forgive. Stroinikov, depriving the ranks, orders and noble dignity, to be exiled to Bobruisk to the arresting companies; to demote other officers to rank and file before service. ”

The surrendered frigate Rafail was renamed by the Turks Fazli Allah (Gift of Allah) and included in the Turkish fleet.

A quarter of a century later, during the Crimean War, during the Sinop battle (18.11.1853/XNUMX/XNUMX), the Fazli Allah was burned by the Russian ships The Empress Maria and Paris.

In his report of the Battle of Sinop, Admiral Nakhimov, among other things, reported:
"The will of Your Imperial Majesty is fulfilled - the frigate" Raphael "does not exist."

The name "Raphael" was never assigned to any ship of the Russian fleet.

PS It is noteworthy that the youngest of Stroinikov's sons served as the artillery officer on the battleship “Paris” during the Sinop battle.

[Rzzz]

Quote: K-612-O

A quarter of a century later, during the Crimean War during the Sinop battle (18.11.1853/XNUMX/XNUMX) “Fazli-Allah” was burned by Russian ships

And here is some kind of mistake. Wooden ships did not serve in warm seas for so long. Most likely it was some other ship already with the same name.

[Gray brother]

If something has been changed - then the rules, if it is a "gesture of goodwill" - then it is pointless, it is useless to throw beads in front of pigs.

[Greg Miller]

The toothlessness of the Russian leadership in relation to Ukraine, and not only it, is simply amazing ... Officials only know how to rob their compatriots and pensioners ...

[Gray brother]

Quote: Greg Miller

Toothlessness of the Russian leadership in relation to Ukraine,

A statesman should be a calculating and cold-blooded ghoul, this is what he differs from a politician who says and does only what society likes.
I cannot evaluate this step due to lack of information. I do not know why these movers and their background.
Nothing that there are so many "I"? Although okay, I can - after all, I have a personal opinion, and not a spar according to manuals.
And about toothlessness the Crimea will say for me.

[Kronos]

I don’t know why they raised the retirement age but I approve because the government knows what it’s doing

[knn54]

They simply complied with the decision of the International Maritime Tribunal.
And then someone else's yacht is "slowed down" ...

[210ox]

"Someone's yacht" is not a big loss for the country.

[bk316]

And then someone else's yacht is "slowed down" ...

Well what nonsense to write?
If they are slowed down, then not "someone's yacht" - it has nothing to do with the Russian Federation, but something like "Sedov"

[Sfurei]

What would you like to see? As written above by colleagues in VO: the shooting of perpetrators and the burning of boats ?? Why the heck we need them. Everything that was possible was squeezed out of this situation. They threatened with a finger, arrested, detained. They exchanged the sailors for the right ones (or just normal people), let the boats rust (they would probably go for a thorough repair now), and selected the guns. What more do you need? About our private traders who swam in ter. the water of Ukraine was written correctly — they were warned not to go there (wanted to make money ??) Or do you propose to gather around boats to write obscene inscriptions on them, to dance on their flag and drown them under the Russian anthem? Well, other actions as is customary on Maidan ??

[kit88]

Quote: Sfurei

... Or do you propose to gather around the boats to write obscene inscriptions on them, dance on their flag and drown them to the anthem of the Russian Federation? Well, other actions as is customary on Maidan ??

And why not?
We here in Russia are so kind, affectionate, fluffy. The whole World appreciates and loves us for this. Yes? Or "not quite like that."
Let's look at the facts. Whoever would like to relate to the United States, but it should be recognized that today it is the most influential country on the planet. They are appreciated and respected. They are recognized as a world policeman, to whom everything is permitted.
And how do they behave in such situations? Unlike us, they are not shy. Often beautiful window dressing is used.
As they pointedly erased the inscription of the USSR from the map.
How they defiantly, involving the air force and aircraft carriers, cut down one single "Kim Il Sung tree."
How they hung Saddam.

Tell me not our method? Yes, just someone acts with caution and apprehension, afraid to call a spade a spade, while someone does not care about everything and "America is above everything!"
And from this "someone" we should "learn something".

PS /
And these boats, completely legally, as an instrument of crime in accordance with paragraph 1, paragraph 3 of Art. 81 of the Code of Criminal Procedure are subject to confiscation or destruction.

[your1970]

Quote: kit88

And how do they behave in such situations? Unlike us, they are not shy. Often beautiful window dressing is used.
How are they defiantly

Somehow Israel drowned a US boat ... And? And nothing....
The United States was embarrassed by Israel to pinch something ....

[kit88]

This is the foot of the one who needs the foot. (with)

[Sfurei]

You surprised me. Are you looking around ?? You write about the USA === They are appreciated and respected. === ???? Are you sure about that? They are afraid - yes, they do it only with an eye on them - yes. But they appreciate and Respect - this is not even funny.
See how the restrained policy of Russia influences: we respond only to direct threats, and let the little things and barks pass our ears. This is how a confident country behaves. Sanctions: enter, we will answer as us it is necessary; attempts to restrict Ukraine: we are doing it to our advantage (we don’t just have to talk about LDNR - now it’s more profitable for us to grind the nationalists of Ukraine there, and not catch it on our borders and in Crimea); Syria - how many times have we been threatened, we continue to do our job ...
And this policy is already affecting: the French and Germans are demanding the removal of sanctions, Turkey and the Arabs are buying weapons. Everyone wants to work with us, including due to the adequacy of behavior on the world stage. They are afraid to work because of the USA - yes, but they want to work !!!

[kit88]

Quote: Sfurei

Sanctions: enter, we will answer as we need

Alexander, well, we're not at Solovyov's "Sunday Evening"
Well, tell me the address of Sberbank in Sevastopol or Simferopol or the address of Magnit in the same place, Beeline, MTS ... Why didn’t they take Tbilisi in 08? And now our deputies are thrown in bottles there, and our President is insulted the whole world.
And the answer is simple - so it should be. And the Russian Federation conducts a balanced policy, clearly understands its place in this world, but at the same time strives to raise its authority and expand its influence.
Just do not throw hats.
The credibility of the Russian Federation has grown - no doubt. Due to the fact that we do not give offense and are already able to provide protection to the weak. But there are limits to everything. And examples with the same Tbilisi 08, and (no doubt) Kiev 2014, confirmation of this.

And about the USA. Yes, they are respected for their strength. They should be respected for having built such a rich country. Are they afraid of them? Do you think Luxembourg is afraid of the USA? Or is Estonia afraid of the USA? May be afraid to say a word against them. So why do they need it? If you do not pretend to be the United States, then there is nothing to be afraid of.

And the French / Germans want to remove the sanctions, you say? So of course. They need to trade, earn money, and then these sanctions. What kind of frog thing do they have before some Russians argue with other Russians whose peninsula in the Russian Sea? Nothing.
So they think so, played around with sanctions and is good, especially since Uncle Sam himself didn’t make too much money from these sanctions, including on trade with Russia.

[Sfurei]

Well, what for would we need Tbilisi? To get a third Chechnya and partisans? At first they were frightened, and then they would come down from the mountains and shoot ... I served in the GRVZ - well, what a joke.
And what for us Ukraine 2014? There, nationalists have been raised for 23 years. Then they will be chased after forests and villages? If we had not arranged for them Donbas, where would they have rushed? On the border with Crimea and Russia, and so they had something to do and from whom to get on the nose ..
Sanctions - yes they impose, only you are aware that sanctions are not introduced from 2014 and not from 2008, but constantly? They stopped taking chicken legs, they forbade us to buy other products. They put the military equipment in the wrong place - they also banned anything .. electronics or new technologies.
These are constant chess: here I pressed, I set up there, then I played two pieces. Turkey is a confirmation of this. After the downed SU-24, I began to hate them, but what Putin did to them: he worked for gas and military supplies, and also brought discord into NATO, blocking all my nerves. Can you answer: how much you need to pay for a split in NATO (even in the form it is now)? As they said in one advertisement - priceless !!
It also seemed to me that we should scream at every corner, that we are cool, poke everyone in the face with our exclusivity, run away with an atom at the other end of the world, if the Russians said, etc. And then he grew up and thought, but in general inadequate behavior ... But you just need to move your game and not turn off (and not dodge) in your actions (as much as possible in politics) and people will reach for you))) Again, we do not see all the pitfalls and all the pieces in the game to fully appreciate the whole arrangement on the board ..
So we look what will happen next))

[kit88]

Sanctions - all my life I did not see the subject of discussion.
Chess is good. But, if you like it or not, you have to run around the world with a gun. If there were no military operation in Syria, the Middle East chess game, where we are winning, would not have taken place. Is not it?
But about the year 08 and 14, let me disagree.
Of course, I don’t think that tomorrow in Ukraine they will install nuclear missiles for direct shelling of Moscow, But ....
According to the results of 14 years, we additionally received a hostile state bordering on us. Why do we need it? Who in a sober mind would wish for such a thing? Even if serious people sit down at the table and agree on something, NATO will have to make concessions for non-deployment of NATO troops on the territory of Ukraine. Now Ukraine and Georgia are playing for them. So your question "what for us Ukraine" is not accepted.
We profiled Ukraine. Yes, not in the 14th year, but as you said - for the past 23 years they have been profiting, at 14 there was a final, and we were not given the last chance to bring them to the convoy we needed.
What will happen next - we will see how the "Ukrainian question" will be resolved. And he will be decided.

[Same lech]

will have to make concessions.

Yes, there seems to be nowhere to give in any further ... Moscow is behind ... since the 1990s, we have all ceded ... Europe has been ceded ... now Ukraine ... are there too many concessions on our part ... I think now Ukraine should become a red line ... for which there will be a war with those whom we constantly yield.

[bk316]

Moscow is behind ... since the 1990s we have been losing everything ...

All concede - is it about CRIMEA or about Syria or about medium-range missiles?

Would you like to fight or something, so for this, and there is a GDP that such would not affect anything?

[Sfurei]

I do not completely agree about Ukraine:
1. It was not in our power to change something in Ukraine and Georgia from 1991 to about 2005 (and it was already too late), the problems themselves had a higher roof than ..
2. We would take Tbilisi, but what would happen to Kiev? How many of their people would have to be put in Ukraine during the storming of cities? No need to say that they would be scared and everyone would run away. And if a couple of cities rested and got to death (against the resurgent Soviet threat). How many would have to put their own and Ukrainians?
3. Capturing a hostile state when they themselves have a lot of problems? (including economic) .. What will it give us? Only problems. Old Man will look, and I will say the next, and begin to turn from us. A stream of mercenaries would flow through Poland. All the rest would also be detached from us, and not like in 2008 and 2014, but for the next 10 years and dramatically.
4. After direct aggression and the seizure of territory in Georgia, by 2014 we would not be allowed to turn around in Ukraine so calmly ..
And for us it’s only expenses and sacrifices. What would we gain from the war? The collapse! Hunger! discontent! The death of relatives and friends. With all this, there are no excuses like: the peacekeepers attacked our base will not be enough to justify the great sacrifices. We hardly digest Syria in terms of losses, and this is a pure war against terrorists !!!
Therefore, both Georgia and Ukraine (following the example of Georgia) have arranged problem areas that are worth constantly looking back. Ukrainians will stick to our border - they will immediately get aggravated at the front with LDNR and not even to Russia! And that means that LDNR will not be joined to us in the coming years.

[perm23]

Write nonsense. . Offer to fight. Kiev to take. What to do then. Indeed, at the moment, Ukraine Russia has not done anything. Shout and all.

[Polite Moose]

Quote: Gray Brother

If something has been changed - then the rules, if it is a "gesture of goodwill" - then it is pointless, it is useless to throw beads in front of pigs.

Aggressor does not return military trophies. Thirst is nothing. Image is everything.

[Honest Citizen]

Most likely it was just a gesture. Already enrages, chesslovo.

It was noted that Russia will continue to suppress such acts in order to ensure safe navigation in accordance with its legislation and international law. This is a warning to the new authorities of Ukraine.

Where is the return of our ships?

[Gray brother]

Quote: Honest Citizen

Where is the return of our ships?

And why should they be the subject of bargaining?

[Honest Citizen]

And why should they be the subject of bargaining?

Suggested as an option. Moreover, it seems that the illegality of their capture by Ukraine was proved.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Honest Citizen

Moreover, it seems that the illegality of their capture by Ukraine was proved.

Whoever has the trunk is the law. In addition, ship operators were not particularly worried about Ukrainian laws, they knew that Euro-Ukrainians could arrest ships and sent them to Ukrainian waters anyway - I don’t understand why the state should have a headache about it.

[K-612-O]

In the history of the Russian fleet, there was only one case of the delivery of a warship and this supreme measure of shame was written about this above, so let this evidence of the shame of sailors live in / on. But the merchants were warned. The crews returned, and private traders let them deal with the troughs somehow, if there was a hunt to cut the margin.

[Antares]

Quote: K-612-O

In the history of the Russian fleet there was only one case of the delivery of a warship and this supreme measure of shame was written about this above, so let this evidence of the shame of sailors live in / on

And in the REV?
Or the descent of St. Andrew’s flag was not there *?

[K-612-O]

No, the remnants of the Pacific squadron were flooded by the crews and fire of Japanese artillery from the dominant heights of Port Arthur. They handed over the city, but not a single ship.

[donavi49]

What ??? So much with the story is bad. Not rich in the remnants of the 2 squadron passed. Two newest battleships - Eagle, who became in Japan - Iwami

Nicholas 1 - become Iki

Two more old battleships - a generation of obsolete ones.
Senyavin - Mishima
Apraksin - Okinoshima

[K-612-O]

Only now the Eagle, like Prince Suvorov, in my opinion had 4 towers of the Civil Code.

[donavi49]

2 GK and 6 towers of the main caliber - which made it advanced in artillery. Like all his sisterships.

Here on the topwar there is an article on all the ships - which became the trophies of Japan, with circumstances like:
https://topwar.ru/111439-svoy-sredi-chuzhih-russkie-korabli-na-sluzhbe-yaponskogo-imperatora.html

[not main]

Quote: donavi49

2 GK and 6 towers of the main caliber - which made it advanced in artillery. Like all his sisterships.

Everything is true about the Eagle and the sisterships Suvorov, Borodino, Alexander 3, but Oslyabya did not fit into this four! I'm not talking about Nicholas 1. Trying to fit it into the "newest" battleships is a bit tense!

[Antares]

The second time the flags on Russian ships were lowered in 1905, at the end of the Tsushima battle, on the orders of Rear Admiral Nebogatov, who sought to save the lives of the remaining sailors and officers.
Admiral N.I. Nebogatov, on the advice of the wounded commander of his ship, single-handedly decided to surrender. At 10:34, the flagship flag “XGE” was raised, which in the international code means “Surrender”.
Since the Japanese did not make out the signal and continued firing, by order of Nebogatov, the flag and rear admiral flags were lowered, and first the white and then the Japanese flags were raised. The remaining ships of the detachment, except for the Emerald, after some hesitation rehearsed all these signals. The adversary noticed this and ceased fire, and at 10:53 the Admiral of Togo agreed to accept the change. At 13:37, Nebogatov and the officers of his headquarters arrived on the battleship Mikasa, other officers on other ships, and on Russian ships the Japanese sailors secured the most important mechanisms, cellars and weapons. Under the escort, the ships went to Japanese ports, and on the battleship “Orel” an attempt was made to flood the ship by opening the Kingstones, which was noticed and stopped by the Japanese in time. In captivity, the sailors who surrendered without a battle ships met a sharply hostile attitude from other Russian prisoners.
7 ships and vessels captured
of them
"Emperor Nicholas I", "General-Admiral Apraksin", Admiral Senyavin ", Oryol"
The last St. Andrew’s flags on Russian ships were lowered in 1924 at the port of Bizerte in northern Africa, where the ships of the White Army squadron were concentrated.

Quote: K-612-O

the remains of the Pacific squadron were flooded by the crews and fire of Japanese artillery from the dominant heights of Port Arthur. Surrendered the city, but not a single ship

Considering that they were flooded almost without damage in the internal --- then consider surrendered / given away. But formally

[K-612-O]

Guilty, I really missed this moment. But Tsushima is one of the examples of illiteracy of command and control of the fleet, the result is in person. But in Port Arthur the flags were not lowered.
By the way, the Varangians were also raised, and he also served in the Japanese Navy.

[not main]

Quote: Antares

In captivity, the sailors who surrendered without a battle ships met a sharply hostile attitude from other Russian prisoners.

Even so? But didn’t they take part in the battle of Tsushima the day before? And the Eagle has not received critical damage? So what kind of surrender can there be without a fight? Here we are talking about saving the lives of the crew! Judge for yourself: Prince Suvorov Out of 900 crew members, only the headquarters of Admiral Rozhdestvensky were saved! Borodino Out of 900 people, one! Alexander 3 none of 900! Oslyabya 376 if they remember correctly could raise, but about 30 were already killed on other ships!

[Nikolai Korovin]

To say that the ships of Nebogatov's detachment surrendered without a fight is still somewhat inaccurate. "Eagle" received 300 holes in the previous battle. In the bow 12-inch turret, one gun operated (the second had the barrel torn off). The aft tower survived, but it had 4 shells left. The right bow 6-inch turret was manually operated. Four 4-mm cannons on the bridges survived. Several of the remaining 47-mm cannons could not be used, as water immediately began to flow into the battery deck when trying to open the half-ports. The battleship retained no more than 75% of its firepower and barely stayed afloat. "Nikolai I", "Apraksin" and "Senyavin" suffered much less in battle, since the Japanese concentrated their main fire on the 15st armored detachment, but they also had damage. They were armed with old artillery, firing black powder at a distance of 1-10 cables less than the artillery of the Japanese battleships. A sluggish attempt to attack the Japanese light cruisers in front formation at the beginning of the encirclement of the detachment failed. The high-speed cruiser "Izumrud" escaped from the encirclement, which the commander Baron Fersen, in a fit of panic, fearing the persecution of the Japanese, blew up already near the coast in the absence of immediate danger. He was not subjected to any penalty. Admiral Nebogatov and members of his staff were tried. The rest of the officers and sailors were not brought to justice. It must be admitted that the detachment could no longer inflict damage on the Japanese. In case of self-flooding, many wounded would inevitably die, especially on the Orel. Of course, the responsibility for the surrender lies with Admiral Nebogatov; but a very heavy burden fell on his shoulders - solely for the principle of giving the lives of several thousand people. There were probably few such cases in the history. It is not easy to judge him ...

[Antares]

Quote: Antares

Quote: K-612-O

In the history of the Russian fleet there was only one case of the delivery of a warship and this supreme measure of shame was written about this above, so let this evidence of the shame of sailors live in / on

And in the REV?
Or the descent of St. Andrew’s flag was not there *?

I have 2 minuses for historical facts ... bitter but true.
opponent 2 pluses, but he was mistaken and admitted ..
All you need to know about the minuses and pluses on the VO.
It's good that I never put them to anyone.
If you want to praise or disagree, do it yourself, in words.

But Tsushima is one of the examples of illiteracy of command and control of the fleet, the result is in person. But in Port Arthur the flags were not lowered.
Preferably polite and with facts.

Why didn’t they let me down?
They lowered the Russian flag in the fortress, surrendering it and the fleet (albeit flooded but in the bay, work immediately began there, especially since Sevastopol was normally drowned)
As a result of this war, we lost 3 fleets in the world! And prestige, money, people, got into debt and became dependent on the creditors who brought us into the WWI!
Well, the Japanese got into US debt.
Tsushima is a common name for all Russians ....
Like Waterloo in the West ...

[New Year day]

Quote: Antares

bitter but true.

true, expensive today

[not main]

Quote: Antares

I have 2 minuses for historical facts ... bitter but true.

Facts must be presented at least truthfully!

Quote: Antares

Tsushima is a common name for all Russians ....

You can't argue with that ...

[bk316]

I have 2 minuses for historical facts ... bitter but true.

Two minuses three pluses - you are in the black.
All the same, in VO the truth is more appreciated than on your censor

[Antares]

Quote: bk316

All the same, in VO the truth is more appreciated than on your censor

I didn’t learn about the censor from VO. And then not immediately. It took a couple of years to look at that site. Trash opinions of impolite people.
But the Defense Express I appreciate.
it’s just that the REV is such a sore subject on change ... so that I could not miss it.

[Kronos]

It was a shame only from the age of 18 before that surrender was not considered as something shameful

[Thrifty]

The gray brother is a frivolous fawning in front of the USA and Europe; those in power have decided to show their goodness in this way.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Thrifty

Gray brother is a fawning in front of usa and europe

Maybe a breakthrough was needed to smooth out unpopular steps - how do we know?

[New Year day]

Quote: Gray Brother

Maybe a breakthrough was needed to smooth out unpopular steps - how do we know?

Good thought, then it remains to wait

[Gray brother]

Quote: Silvestr

Good thought, then it remains to wait

What to expect is not clear, because it is not clear what to expect))))

[New Year day]

Quote: Gray Brother

What to expect is not clear, because it is not clear what to expect))))

something and something will happen. Or it may have already happened, but we don’t know

[1976AG]

Quote: Thrifty

The gray brother is a frivolous fawning in front of the USA and Europe; those in power have decided to show their goodness in this way.

If they had been fawning, they would have returned that year. Though you think a little what to write.

[perm23]

stupidity then why write. where does the fawning .. There is a contract with the West. it must be performed.

[210ox]

Well, now they can safely be used as monuments. Monuments of stupidity and stupidity.

[Igoresha]

now still a discount on gas yes more

[Gray brother]

Quote: Igoresha

now still a discount on gas yes more

They offered a discount - 25% cheaper than they are currently buying in Slovakia. They don’t want an even - they smoke reverse)))

[Rzzz]

There probably the scheme is established, they do not want to break it. Of these 25%, the good part probably goes to the pockets of those responsible for the reverse, and further along the vertical of power.

[Lexus]

Someone still has doubts, in whose interests all these HPPs? The next significant "gift" will be when Gazprom maintains gas supplies through Ukraine and pays off in court and arbitration. More precisely, we, citizens of Russia.

[Gardamir]

Be sure to pay. Remember that even before the Crimea, the girls in the church were jumping, I then let him be indirectly for Putin. So the European court awarded those girls compensation to pay. And paid, though 15tysch, but it's not about the money

[Kronos]

Correctly paid the anti-popular law was another thing that the ROC should have paid and not the state

[Same lech]

The border violators were pardoned and given away ... the ships were also given away ... which noble ones wept straight from the bounty of the Kremlin ...
I think that in Kiev they will not appreciate such a nobleness of our government and consider it its weakness ... in general, we can expect new provocations ... more sophisticated from Kiev.

[Grits]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

The border violators were pardoned and given away ... the ships were also given away ... which noble ones wept straight from the bounty of the Kremlin ...
I think that in Kiev they will not appreciate such a nobleness of our government and consider it its weakness ... in general, we can expect new provocations ... more sophisticated from Kiev.

I can imagine what a glorious change (right?) Bandera mass media will now start trumpeting. About how they defeated the aggressor's fleet, how they are the strongest in Europe, how the whole world stood behind them and how "Omeriga is with us!"

[Ural resident]

5 years continuous gestures of goodwill, endless game of giveaways. Sentsov was released, the sailors were released, the equipment was taken from the Crimea themselves - she then fought in the Donbas, the boats were returned - they will surely break through again. Our government is trying to prove to the Ukrainians that it is good, but in the meantime, the junta has completely fallen off its coils from its impunity.

[Andrey Chistyakov]

"Sentsov was released, the sailors were released"
Sentsov and the sailors were exchanged.
Do not get carried away.

[Ural resident]

it was not an exchange of prisoners of war. The Sentsov terrorist, who was convicted by a court under a special article and received a sentence, while independent courts suddenly leave us. The sailors who were going for a breakthrough, the bandits who still shot Russian soldiers in Chechnya and ours, just captured by the SBU. Now, it turns out do any muck against Russia, even with the use of technology, then grab its citizens and exchange it. Moreover, they did not give away Hajiyev at the last moment, although everything was agreed. It was possible in response to hold Sentsov, but no, we are honest. So it turns out that Sentsov was simply released.

[Igoresha]

Sentsov + the sailors were not released and exchanged, but I agree with you otherwise.
But, whether it will still be: Putin urged the media not to expose Ukraine in a disadvantageous light
https://ria.ru/20191003/1559414808.html

[rocket757]

When they change, then all right, it makes sense to rescue their own, and give the skakuas back.
With technology, of course, not everything is so pleasant ... to please foreign "partners" is pointless, they have long and completely lost their way on their .... do not understand on what!

[Svetlana]

It is unclear what arrangements they were returned to. If as a gesture of goodwill, then it is very in vain. So the face is lost.

[Gardamir]

If it was.

[Svetlana]

it? What are you talking about?

[Gardamir]

Face...
I am writing from smart so I try to be shorter

[Svetlana]

Yes, like it is. So far there is nothing to be ashamed of.

[Newven]

Quote: Svetlana

It is unclear what arrangements they were returned to. If as a gesture of goodwill, then it is very in vain. So the face is lost.

There will be nothing for horses to cry partners at the Norman gathering!

[Svetlana]

Quote: Igoresha

now still a discount on gas yes more

If it is sorcasm, then plus, if without sarcasm, then minus

[Leshy1975]

And here I am, brothers, you won’t believe, I decided to correct myself. I decided to change my shoes and start trusting the authorities of the Russian Federation and the darkest one. And then forever they peck at me for my opposition propaganda, you’re tired of me already. Moreover, how can one really not be trusted if, according to Peskov’s mustache: the head of state dislikes lies and incompetence most of all.
And I also always try for the truth (well, as I understand it of course) to drown. Well, since I decided to trust the authorities, then there’s nothing to pull, we need to act. He began to trust right after the decision was made, right from the 16th. And here I am reading the same number (source regnum.ru): Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation denied the information that the Russian authorities are ready to hand over to Ukraine the vessels of the Ukrainian Navy arrested in the Kerch Strait even before the summit in the "Norman format." The corresponding statement was distributed today, November 16, by the press service of the Russian Foreign Ministry.

Well, I live, it means with full confidence for two whole days, nothing like that, I got comfortable, I believe everything. And it’s a hunt to read the news, all the more so as not to read, if you were taught to read at school, for some reason this skill was necessary. Well, here I read:

The Foreign Ministry confirmed that on November 18 all the ships (boats and tugboat) were transferred to Kiev for safekeeping.

And I mean I read it, I sit on, again I trust the authorities of the Russian Federation, but what’s convenient when you hesitate with the authorities. I’m just faced with a question today, itching has formed right in me, I can even get sick with a split personality. Help the brothers figure it out!
And which authorities do I trust more so that 16,11,19

Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation denied the information

or those 18,11,19

Foreign Ministry confirmed

PS I naively thought that the life of the guards is easy, sit and just trust. But no, here a certain flexibility is needed, moral so precisely.

[voyaka uh]

An anecdote of the 30s ... dad used to tell.
Question to the communist at the party meeting:
"Have you had any hesitations in party life?"
"Always hesitated with the Party!"

[Svarog]

Quote: Leshy1975

PS I naively thought that the life of the guards is easy, sit and just trust. But no, here a certain flexibility is needed, moral so precisely.

So you can see .. the guards have already "floated" do not know why to heat today .. and for what tomorrow .. the decisions of the patrons change too quickly

[Kronos]

Yes everyone knows they write it is a victory

[Thrifty]

Goblin 1975 - the authorities are not aware of their own words and promises, everything from it is like water off a duck ...

[Gardamir]

Do you see a split, because there is a conscience. And conscience is removed from the guards, so that it would not interfere with telling about cunning plans.

[cost]

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation yesterday denied information that the Russian authorities were ready to hand over to Ukraine the vessels of the Ukrainian Navy that were arrested in the Kerch Strait before the summit in the “Norman format”.

make sure once again that silence is gold

[x.andvlad]

Quote: Leshy1975

And which authorities do I trust more so that 16,11,19
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation denied the information

or those 18,11,19
Foreign Ministry confirmed

They are diplomats for that.
They denied that they were only "ready" or "not ready"

Everything is very simple: on November 16 they were not ready, and 18 received a command and prepared.

[New Year day]

Quote: Leshy1975

there is some flexibility

Multi-vector, damn it! Famously described a good urge for faith in power

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Silvestr

Quote: Leshy1975

there is some flexibility

Multi-vector, damn it! Famously described a good urge for faith in power

[Antares]

Quote: Leshy1975

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation denied the information

For you specifically obyasnal in that topic
The Foreign Ministry refuted the connection between the summit and the program. At least they quoted so.
But the authors in ROSSMI decided what it means, Denied it at all!
Once again, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is very streamlined about everything! And there you understand how you know.
Not in vain invented HPP ..
Our media is no better.
Silence is silence .. then the news is that tugboats came out, then the news with reference to Kommersant (who was all accused of fake in Russia - and no one apologized!) -
Well, then the news about the movement we already knew from the traffic police.
The television box routinely reported on the return of tugs with ships and a tugboat.

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Antares

Quote: Leshy1975

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation denied the information

For you specifically obyasnal in that topic
The Foreign Ministry refuted the connection between the summit and the program. At least they quoted so.
But the authors in ROSSMI decided what it means, Denied it at all!
Once again, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is very streamlined about everything! And there you understand how you know.
Not in vain invented HPP ..
Our media is no better.
Silence is silence .. then the news is that tugboats came out, then the news with reference to Kommersant (who was all accused of fake in Russia - and no one apologized!) -
Well, then the news about the movement we already knew from the traffic police.
The television box routinely reported on the return of tugs with ships and a tugboat.

Yes, I actually know that it is they who are trying to refute the connection with the Norman format and with the decision of the tribunal for the law of the sea. This is called doing a good face in a bad game. And that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in this situation was simply ordered to get out. Especially in the light of all that has been expressed regarding the decision of the maritime tribunal. Simply put, there was less need to chat before, especially when I'm not sure about the result. But this is not about the current government.

PS There is also gas transit through Ukraine, it can also turn out ridiculously. Once again, the Foreign Ministry will have to rack its brains on how to submit it in a victorious light, or, at worst, on the basis of purely humanistic impulses.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Leshy1975

Yes, I actually know ...

... that is, are you just lying higher? Funny

Quote: Leshy1975

There is also gas transit through Ukraine, which can also turn out funny

Come on, come on ... more in detail, please. Laugh together

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Quote: Leshy1975

Yes, I actually know ...

... that is, are you just lying higher? Funny

Quote: Leshy1975

There is also gas transit through Ukraine, which can also turn out funny

Come on, come on ... more in detail, please. Laugh together

Quoting from sources, is that a lie? Pussycat, past.

[Golovan Jack]

Goblin, you, as usual ... were a little mistaken. It was not necessary to quote this (journalism came up with this):

Quote: Leshy1975

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation has denied information that the Russian authorities are ready to hand over to Ukraine the vessels of the Ukrainian Navy arrested in the Kerch Strait before the summit in the “Norman format”

, and here it is (this is what the Foreign Ministry has stated):

On Smolenskaya Square they said that, in principle, Ukraine may return its ships - two armored boats and one tugboat - when he wants, but at the same time they must be preserved as material evidence. There is no link to the summit of the "Norman Four" in this matter

 Hence

https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2780224.html

This is the second phrase in the same article (there are only three of them, by the way). But we do not know well that in modern articles the second phrase can refute the first (and even more so - the headline). In goblin thinking linear

Quote: Leshy1975

Quoting from sources

Curve quoting.

Quote: Leshy1975

is that a lie?

Essentially. Both in meaning and in form. Pussycat

[Thrifty]

No matter how kind this tears come to us. Now the Kiev regime is sure that one can speak with Russia only in a rude way, and sooner or later, one can achieve one’s own.

[Sitearvi]

In vain they didn’t understand, they will understand the tin of goodwill, they will scream that the “aggressor” surrendered

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Saitarvi

In vain they didn’t understand, they will understand the tin of goodwill, they will scream that the “aggressor” surrendered

The International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea, sitting in Hamburg, on Saturday announced its decision at the request of Ukraine to release three Ukrainian warships detained in the Kerch Strait on 25 on November 2018.

Russia refused to participate in the meetings of the tribunal.

The court decision was made by a majority of 19 votes against one. The Russian judge Roman Kolodkin was of particular opinion, whose objections, echoing the official position of Moscow, boil down to the fact that the jurisdiction of the tribunal does not extend to this case.

https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-48408430

[Gardamir]

They say that Ukraine also has our ships, but for some reason the Kremlin is in no hurry to return its ships to their home harbor.

[Thrifty]

Gardamir - we are always kind, we are not able to draw conclusions from the filth that we receive in response to our kindness ...

[Lord of the Sith]

It’s even disgusting to touch these kayaks, take your junk, and the fact that in the Crimea too.

[Newven]

Quote: Lord of the Sith

It’s even disgusting to touch these kayaks, take your junk, and the fact that in the Crimea too.

++! It's just that some people don't know how the fleets of the whole world treat the ships that have lowered the flag. That is why "everything was lost", Russia lost and ....

[NF68]

Passed along with the latest Chinese warning?

[Runoway]

Our prayers extend the contract for gas transit, if only to sell, the money does not smell
All the cheer patriots who, along with the launch of SP-2 were going to block the Khokhlov faucet, alas, have to remove the checker back under the sofa
If we survive, we’ll forgive everything and we will use gas at a lower price than in the domestic market

[perm23]

where does the cheers - the patriots then. if the West behaves this way and we have supply obligations. will be ready SP - 2 will be visible. and now what to do then. we need transit.

[Runoway]

Stop looking for excuses, multi-steps and complex maneuvers. And stop blaming the west, all our foreign policy works only for the elite their business and interests
Here is the main misfortune of the population, shearing us like sheep showing a movie from a zombie box (Dunno on the Moon)

[Nastia makarova]

no one was going to turn off the tap and stop transit !!! will reduce the volume until they complete the construction of the joint venture "and this will take at least a year

[Pavel57]

30mm guns left?

[Lord of the Sith]

Only the PSU was taken and the trunks drilled))

[janeck]

joy is what VNA Ukraine !! Now you can arrange dances with a tambourine. Around the fire)

[Andrei Gurov]

Well, now Svidomo these pelvis must be disassembled by bolts, suddenly Putin put bugs there.

[Geo⁣]

I don’t know about you, but I, as a citizen, don’t really like that those who encroached on the inviolability of our borders were released “in peace” and, moreover, the “instruments” of the crime were returned. I believe that there are issues in which the state should be principled. And these are by no means questions of protection by the authorities themselves even from, let us recall that law, insults from the people.

[Sitearvi]

That's what was required to prove that tomorrow the Ukrainian delegation flies to The Hague to understand participation in the tribunal in this matter. So what?

[sergo1914]

Two Missouri-class battleships and an escort ship. What for? They will now raider across the Black Sea. We'll have to catch Bismarck. Orava.

[Lysenko7]

sergo1914, they are now not just raiding, they are afraid of leaving their ports. And why catch them, there is aviation and missiles, and keeping the survivability of Ukrainian boats and ships is already the task of the Ukrainian command of the Ukrainian Navy. Well, comparing the Ukrainian boats with the battleship Bismarck, you flattered the Ukrainian patriots, although if you take the number of admirals in the Ukrainian fleet, then there may be some kind of logic.

[Jerk]

And I heard this song

[tech3030]

What does impunity give rise to? Wait for the next episodes on TV.

[Ros 56]

Why they gave it away, I won’t know how it is, it’s as clear as God's day, now the elephant is being inflated from a fly. Indeed, they would give the DNI, all the same, Lugansk has no coast, and Zelensky considers Donbass Ukraine, therefore, formally, we did not violate anything.

[Old26]

Quote: alexmach

there is no sense in these boats, they also do not pose a special threat. And so a good gesture towards the Normandy meeting ... another thing is that it was not worth letting the sailors go ...

Did they really let them go? They were towed into neutral waters and handed over to Ukraine. But what the crews returned - I did not hear ...

[Pavel57]

This story will continue, only in what court?

[cat Rusich]

Phrase: "... the boats" Nikopol "," Berdyansk "and the tugboat" Yana Kapu "were transferred for" safekeeping "to Ukraine ... "=" ... a box of vodka has been handed over for "safekeeping ... to an alcoholic ..."

[ochakow703]

Another "goodwill gesture" of Russia, against the background of our ships detained by Ukraine, looks like a spit in our face. How much can that be ?!

[perm23]

what for they gave. banderlogs still do not perceive this as an act of goodwill. .

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Chit

Nobody really is sad. People are just thinking.
The Ukrainian boats "Berdyansk" and "Nikopol" with the tugboat "Yany Kapu" were returned by Moscow.
The Russian bulk carrier "Mikhail Pogodin" still crows in Kherson. The Russian seiner "Nord" is still dangling in Berdyansk. Russian tanker NEYMA is in Izmail.
Does this suggest any thoughts?
Only one word comes to my mind when analyzing the situation - "deflection". Whom and in front of whom is clear.
No, of course, it is clear that Russia was forced to give boats after a well-known decision. There is no reason to risk your ships in foreign ports. And so they kind of saved their face, hiding behind a gesture of goodwill.
But the feeling is still incomprehensible ...

We must protect the face in another way. Not hindering other people's arrested pieces of iron at home, but merciless pressure and demanding to return ours. Finding ways to coerce. Which is not possible to refuse.

[Mazai]

All marked (pissed) they are already, they will not be happy in the "battles" with Russia!

[xomaNN]

I would like to believe that the return of the "U. squadron" without the return of the captured ships "Nord" and "Mechanic Pogodin" to Ukraine, the Russian Foreign Ministry will be able to publicize competently. And since the case of the "Kerch breakthrough" has not been closed, the boats could have been kept as material evidence for another year. And barter.

[Woland]

Everything turned out as predicted by Ukrainian experts in various shows. We returned the ships by the decision of the tribunal (how to prove that this is an act of goodwill? Everyone is already laughing at this formulation of surrendering their interests! As soon as we turn backward, they immediately declare it an "act of goodwill") No matter how our media wrote that everything, our patience is over, that never, for any price, and so on. And how did it end? The prisoners were released, even WITHOUT CONDEMNING, the ships were given as cute, without even demanding the return of their trawler, which the Ukrainians had captured. Why then capture them? It was necessary to skip them, and even provide them with a pilot with numerous apologies for the disturbance. It is disgusting to look at our power. Talkers and cowards!

[Ivan Gorinich]

Woland you are absolutely right

[Ivan Gorinich]

I look at the Kremlin’s website and now the Federal Law on the State Border with Ukraine is hanging, this is the current law signed by the Russian authorities.

[Lysenko7]

It costs money to maintain these boats and a tugboat, I understand that there was no question of serving them in Russia and the Ukrainians did not take adequate measures to return them. The boats were not even credited to the state with the subsequent redirection of this money to the FSB border service of Russia in order to reimburse the costs of the technical condition of these ships, but this is the property of another country hostile to Russia. For the personnel of these ships to survive Ukraine should issue a premium to the commander of the border ship. And so we showed what will happen to any violators of the border and showed that we can use weapons, and in the future to kill, with all the ensuing consequences for the crews of vessels violating the border. This is the first warning, so to speak. And God forbid there will be a second, which may turn out to be the last for Ukraine, with the destruction of all ports, airfields, communication lines, industrial centers and everything else that can be used to produce at least some military means, even nuts for the tank. And the commander of our border guard simply fulfilled his duty - he ensured the inviolability of the borders of Russia by any means available to him and at the same time saved the life of Ukrainian sailors. Ukrainians, appreciate this and remember - to provoke Russia is deadly for your state.

[shinobi]

There was absolutely nothing to catch from these cans, so they gave it to me. I would have towed the pelvis to a deeper place, and drowned.