French Air Force intends to fly on the "Rafals" for another half a century

French Air Force intends to fly on the "Rafals" for another half a century

The French Air Force intends to use the Dassualt Rafale fighters for at least another half a century. As transmits "Warspot" citing the janes.com portal, the Air Force command is planning four stages of modernization of the fighter.


Fourth-generation French fighters will last until 2070, having gone through several modernizations, and they will be replaced by sixth-generation fighters, developed jointly by France, Germany and Spain as part of a program to create a promising aviation Future Combat Air System (FCAS) combat system, which will be based on the new Next Generation Weapon System (NGWS) combat aircraft.

According to the deputy chief of staff, plans and programs of the French Air Force, Major General Frederic Parisot, four more stages of the modernization of Rafale are planned.

Currently, the French Air Force operates fighter standard F3-R, which is a further modernization of the fighter Rafale F3. The development of the F3-R standard started back in the 2013 year and now has received official approval for use in the French Air Force and Navy.

A key feature of the F3-R is support for the MBDA Meteor missiles, the Thales Talios laser pointer, and the advanced Safran AASM satellite guidance system. In addition, aircraft upgraded to the new standard will receive updated sensors and a computer system.

In January of this year, it was announced the development of the next modification of the fighter - the F4 standard. The contract for the implementation of the F4 standard was signed by Eric Trappier, General Director of Dassault Aviation, and Florence Parley, French Minister of Defense.

According to the company's specialists, the F4 standard includes the refinement of the RBE2 radar with an active phased array, the TALIOS long-range radar guidance module and the Reco NG reconnaissance module (all equipment was manufactured by Thales). The modernization will also affect the communications complex, displays on the helmets of pilots. The machine will be equipped with a new engine control unit. In addition, fighters will be able to carry new missiles and precision bombs up to 1 thousand kg. The deck version ("Rafal-M") will receive an updated, all-weather and more accurate landing system on aircraft carriers.

The development of the following standards will become known as the aircraft becomes obsolete.

Recall, Rafale is a multi-purpose 4 generation fighter. His first flight took place in 1986 year. Adopted by the French Navy adopted in 2004 year, the Air Force began to arrive in 2006 year. Designed by French designers. Today it is the last aircraft created by a European country without foreign assistance. First used in combat in 2007 year in Afghanistan.
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  1. The leader of the Redskins 15 November 2019 16: 36 New
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    Repeat the fate of the Mirage? God forbid ...
    1. Lexus 15 November 2019 17: 18 New
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      He is unlikely to repeat the success of Mirages, but nonetheless. When the French were developing Rafal, something was awkward. Overweight, with weak engines and radar. The work done on the bugs, new engines and radar made it possible to fit into the requirements of the Air Force and Navy.
      But even here the misadventures did not leave the plane, because there was no export supply, and Saudi Arabia preferred the Eurofighters. It was even planned to close the production line with a reduction in purchases by French operators. The deal was saved by an Egyptian order for Saudi money.
      Today there is a Qatari order and an Indian one, albeit a truncated one. However, along with the modernization of previously delivered machines, production is loaded for five years. About 20 cars annually. A little, but ...
      The project came up, and then it will be visible. It’s painfully expensive.
      1. RUSS 15 November 2019 18: 25 New
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        BY THE LEVEL OF SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH ACTIVITY OF THE FRENCH IN A TEN LEADERS
        1. Warrior-80 15 November 2019 23: 55 New
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          I agree the French are not a bad plane created, the latest modifications at the level of su 35. But the rejection of 5th generation development and populist statements about 6th is not serious. If we take the parameters of the 6th generation, then there is no such technology yet, God forbid, in 20 years, which means they will be very behind
      2. TermNachTer 15 November 2019 19: 17 New
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        I wonder how this airplane will fight against 5th generation cars. The Mirage was in the 3rd and 4th - there wasn’t much difference between the generations, but there was a qualitative leap. A completely different calico.
        1. Lexus 15 November 2019 19: 25 New
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          I think in the role of a fighter he will see a replacement, and he will live his life more in the bomber incarnation. 9,5 tons of maximum load - even for the Su-30 too much. This is against a serious opponent. For those against whom the French are accustomed to fight over the past 70 years, and Rafale will be over the eyes.
          1. TermNachTer 15 November 2019 19: 40 New
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            If you hang 9,5 tons each time, how long is the glider's life?
            1. Lexus 15 November 2019 20: 01 New
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              So then the maximum speed. Estimated. Tons of 6 easily and without straining. Three standard hanging tanks, 4 UAB and 4 URVVB. Instead of UAB, SCALPs can take either nuclear ASMP (not all). Develop "Perseus." A toothy and unpleasant tactical bomber can turn out.
        2. nks
          nks 16 November 2019 11: 56 New
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          If you really fight in the sky, then in addition to the skill of the pilots, the real TTX is important, and not the virtual nameplates of generations
      3. Nycomed 15 November 2019 22: 53 New
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        To rely on the Saudis, in terms of the purchase of Rafales, would initially be unjustified. There, the Britons sat and sit firmly (Hunter, Lightning, Tornado, Typhoon), but in terms of other PZ monarchies, for now, the question is. With Qatar, it seems, everything is “on top”, and perhaps the UAE will catch up. And, yes, do not forget about the Indian contract and Egypt. And, dear - not dear, this is all discussed ... repeat
        1. nks
          nks 16 November 2019 11: 53 New
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          Quote: Nycomed
          To rely on the Saudis, in terms of the purchase of Rafales, would initially be unjustified

          And nobody really counted on them - tovarisch is just a dreamer

          Quote: Nycomed
          With Qatar, it seems, everything is "on mazi"

          Qatar is already shipping
          Quote: Nycomed
          maybe the UAE will catch up

          But Dasso counted on the UAE and has been negotiating for a long time, but they still can’t.
      4. nks
        nks 16 November 2019 11: 48 New
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        Quote: lexus
        He is unlikely to repeat the success of Mirages, but nonetheless.

        What kind of mirages?



        Quote: lexus
        When the French were developing Rafal, something was awkward. Overweight, with weak engines and radar.

        Where are you all making this up from?

        Quote: lexus
        About 20 cars annually. A little, but ...

        By the way, this is more than, for example, the Su-35


        Quote: lexus
        It’s painfully expensive.

        Rafale is similar in price to the su-35 (export), SuperHornet and F-35 (in fact, the F-35 is now more expensive).
        And F-15E, F-22, typhoon is more expensive than rafal.
        1. TermNachTer 16 November 2019 11: 58 New
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          Recently I read that one “rafal” costs the Indians $ 120 million. At what price do they offer "drying"?
          1. nks
            nks 16 November 2019 12: 49 New
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            The sides themselves for India cost ~ 3,2 yards of Euro for 28 single and 8 doubles. Total average price (sparks are more expensive than single) in euros ~ 89 million euros or at the current exchange rate ~ $ 98 million. 24 Su-35s sold to China for ~ $ 2,5 yards - consider for yourself
            1. TermNachTer 16 November 2019 16: 08 New
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              So, in Russia, as before in the USSR, the scope of supply includes spare parts, ammunition, and so on. And what comes with the "rafals"?
              1. nks
                nks 16 November 2019 16: 37 New
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                Do not come up with about "ammunition, etc." The Chinese contract includes a spare set of engines for each side and ground equipment. They are about the "extra" $ 150 million and fall. + - (exact numbers of contracts anyway no) we get a similar price
                1. TermNachTer 16 November 2019 16: 42 New
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                  At $ 12 million per engine? Not too cheap? Go to Wikipedia, look how much is the American or French counterpart.
                  1. nks
                    nks 16 November 2019 17: 05 New
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                    Firstly, you didn’t find something wrong, and secondly, I don’t know what you think is the French analogue of al-41F1S, but the M88 rafal costs about 4 million eur (a pair, respectively, 8 with copecks)
                    1. TermNachTer 16 November 2019 17: 27 New
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                      We turn on the logic ... If two engines cost $ 10 million, then what are the remaining $ 80 million paid for?
                      1. nks
                        nks 16 November 2019 17: 54 New
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                        What are you talking about? Which two engines cost $ 10 million?
                      2. TermNachTer 16 November 2019 18: 01 New
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                        It is you, not me. You say that the Raphael engine costs $ 10 million. I wonder why the rest is so expensive?
                      3. nks
                        nks 16 November 2019 18: 09 New
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                        Something you have is really bad with everything - both with the score and with reading. :)

                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        You say that the Raphael engine costs $ 10 million

                        I did not write this. And why do you think that "At $ 12 million per engine." ... "very cheap," and for the rest of the plane, "$ 80 million" is expensive?
                      4. TermNachTer 16 November 2019 18: 23 New
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                        You wrote a little higher that M - 88, for "rafal" costs 4 million euros, respectively, two engines cost $ 10 million. So I ask, the rest $ 80 million for what?
                      5. nks
                        nks 16 November 2019 18: 29 New
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                        8 million euros is not $ 10 million. Okay, I won’t ask why $ 80 million, but imagine - they pay for the plane itself (that is, a glider, a bunch of units in it and avionics and other equipment).
                      6. TermNachTer 16 November 2019 18: 54 New
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                        Usually the cost of engines, somewhere around 25-40% of the cost of the aircraft. You just have a chic airplane - the cost of two engines is about 10%. Engage in the sale of aircraft - you will succeed.)))
                      7. nks
                        nks 16 November 2019 19: 47 New
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                        Usually, people should have a little understanding of the issue they are discussing. However, this site is not particularly accepted. Why do you argue with the “logic” and strange arithmetic with the figures from the parliamentary report - it is not clear (although in 2019 the m88 is even a little more expensive for India), but take an interest in at least the real prices of the Russian RD-33 AL-31/41 and their share in the cost of the aircraft, despite the fact that the avionics avionics are much more functional (judging by your comments below about the design of the airframe and its construction, you also have a poor idea)

                        PS: Thanks for the advice, maybe I'll do it later, but I'm not interested in a net salesman - I'm still an engineer
                      8. TermNachTer 16 November 2019 20: 29 New
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                        Well, I still work at the aircraft engine plant, although not as an engineer, but this is not the point. True, the factory does not make engines for combat aircraft, but for transport, UBS and helicopters. But as I understand it, this is also not very important.
                        Because, how much does a modern turbojet engine really cost? Therefore, I do not believe that electronic filling costs 80% of the cost of the aircraft.
                      9. nks
                        nks 16 November 2019 21: 12 New
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                        Are you there somewhere in the management / finance department? From your earlier words, I realized that you have some kind of engines worth> $ 10 million. If so, which ones can you find out?
                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        Therefore, I do not believe that electronic filling costs 80% of the cost of the aircraft.

                        Firstly, I did not say that avionics cost 80%. Just the cost of materials and the manufacture and assembly of the airframe is difficult to assess immediately (for example, the labor costs for the production of the F-16A and F-16C differed 1,5 times), and the avionics functionality is lighter.
                        And secondly, how can your work on aircraft engine building give you something in understanding this issue?
                      10. TermNachTer 16 November 2019 21: 49 New
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                        My work allows me to understand the real value of today's turbofan engine. Cannot M - 88, cost 4 million euros, for one simple reason - it does not happen. If in Russia or the United States, a similar engine costs $ 12 - 20 million or more, and then the French, like a "little devil from a snuff box", will boom. A new engine for $ 5 million. Officially, the development cost is 1,5 billion euros. How many engines need to be produced in order to "recapture" the money invested in development.
                      11. nks
                        nks 17 November 2019 01: 04 New
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                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        If in Russia or the USA, a similar engine costs $ 12 - $ 20 million or more

                        So you still have not told which engine (even not similar) costs> 10 mln?

                        Specifically, a similar (including in size and thrust) Russian engine rd-33 of India was sold in general a little more than $ 1 million.
                        http://www.finmarket.ru/news/522000
                        Similar American (slightly larger, but larger-scale, although pre-generation)
                        https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/03/30/us-navy-awards-114m-order-for-new-hornet-engines/
                        ~ $ 4 million
                        yes, the ej200 typhoon (again, it’s bigger) is more expensive ~ $ 6 million pounds, but it’s still substantially less than $ 10 million

                        You can compare with f135, ​​but it’s significantly larger and it’s not worth any “$ 20 million or more”
                      12. TermNachTer 17 November 2019 11: 13 New
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                        People have learned to juggle with digital letters for a long time. The cost of creating M - 88, 1,5 billion euros - this is an official report. The cost of the engine is 4 million euros. How many engines do you need to sell to simply “beat off” investments in development and manufacturing, not to mention the wages of the workers and the profit of the capitalist?
                      13. nks
                        nks 17 November 2019 16: 14 New
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                        You can learn to juggle, but you are not good at it, and at the same time you are talking about 10 subjects, and showing only one, and that one is constantly falling. So where is your engine for> $ 10mn? Why is TV3 - 117 here?

                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        1,5 billion euros - this is an official report

                        Seriously? Ah ah ah. am
                        In general, the cost of development is very indirectly related to our topic. The selling prices of various engines are just a fact (links to the news that I cited above are easy to google, it will take a little longer to find these data on off-site sites). How they are formed, what is the cost of production, the share of investment in development and the rate of profit is another question. But in principle, a little about the cost of development. Everything is simple here - in general, the state paid for the development. This is GOZ
                    2. TermNachTer 17 November 2019 11: 15 New
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                      PS $ 1 million is worth the engine 3 TV - 117 of the Motor Sich plant, but this is an engine of a completely different class and those. of opportunities.
                    3. TermNachTer 17 November 2019 11: 55 New
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                      And once again PS just in the news feed posted the information - the cost of the order is 7,87 billion euros, i.e. the cost of each side - 218 million euros, and if in bucks, then in general the darkness. Or did I count the wrong again?
                    4. nks
                      nks 17 November 2019 16: 17 New
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                      Well, I wrote that this is the cost of the boards themselves in the contract. And so there are a lot of things. Actually, nobody announced the general price of the contract and the details, of course, it appeared from an insider on the indiandefence forum on the day the contract was signed. The same infa was also circulated in the Indian press, from where it is periodically published here to one degree or another.
                      .
                      PS: There is of the data in the budget reports of the French parliament - there they rafed somewhat cheaper. But for Qatar (also unofficially) the option for 12 boards cost 1,1 billion euros (it turned out a little more expensive)
                    5. TermNachTer 17 November 2019 16: 38 New
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                      Last time I explain that the latest engine for a fighter cannot cost so little. Engine D - 486, for passenger and transport aircraft - costs about $ 4 million, depending on the volume of the order, a little more or a little less. The engine for a fighter cannot cost the same, because it is more complex in design, and is designed for more difficult operating conditions.
  • Thrifty 15 November 2019 16: 40 New
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    But the glider can withstand it, is there enough resource for it? After all, airplanes will not stand in hangars like museum exhibits, they will probably participate in hostilities. ..
    1. Livonetc 15 November 2019 16: 45 New
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      Perhaps we are talking about the further production of this aircraft.
    2. Jager 15 November 2019 17: 17 New
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      TU-95 is also ancient as a guano mammoth. But he still has to fly and fly.
      1. TermNachTer 16 November 2019 12: 00 New
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        With what overload does a heavy bomber and fighter fly? Do not catch the differences?
        1. Jager 16 November 2019 16: 30 New
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          Well, the design life is calculated taking into account the specifics of the application.
          1. TermNachTer 16 November 2019 16: 32 New
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            You want to say that the “rafal” metal thickness from which the spars or ribs are made is eight times thicker than the Tu? However, metal fatigue acts equally on different metal thicknesses.
            1. Jager 18 November 2019 18: 46 New
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              Compare the bus and Kamaz "Dakar". But cho, frame, metal, even diesel is almost the same))
    3. nks
      nks 16 November 2019 11: 50 New
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      Enough of a resource for what? In general, here we are talking about the timing of the program, and not about specific sides. Well, of course, there are enough errors in the news
  • knn54 15 November 2019 16: 51 New
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    Old "Flurry", it seems the furrow will not spoil. But also...
  • Ros 56 15 November 2019 17: 04 New
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    And you remember how long the Yak-3s from Normandy-Neman served with the French, and they fought on them. Consider the level of technology of those times and the current. So it may well be.
    1. Nycomed 15 November 2019 23: 15 New
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      "The quality of the welding is consistent with the level of a village blacksmith. However, the exterior is excellent." This is the opinion of the French about the Yak-3. And the transfer of these planes to them was simply Stalin’s ideological step. The French, in the existing Air Force, they did not last very long, although they very much appreciate this memory.
      1. Ros 56 16 November 2019 09: 13 New
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        Do not forget that aircraft were made during the war, when the age of the fighter was very short. The fighter does not give a damn about the internal, and by and large the appearance, the main thing for him is the aerobatic properties, speed and power of the armament. Everything else is secondary. It is natural that they were removed from military operations after the war, jet technology went, but they served as training machines until the mid-fifties.
  • 7,62h54 15 November 2019 17: 11 New
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    Will France exist by then?
    1. ltc35 15 November 2019 17: 16 New
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      And Cho, are there prerequisites for the disappearance of France?
      1. TermNachTer 17 November 2019 12: 02 New
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        Given the number of inhabitants of North African, Arab, etc. descent, the issue of preserving the French as a nation is quite acute. Some claim that already 40% have a darker skin color than a European should. And the situation is only getting worse - because the Arabs in the family have 3-4 or more children, and the French have 1, rarely 2. And the migration continues. So read Vadim Panov - "Enclaves"
        1. nks
          nks 17 November 2019 16: 35 New
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          Quote: TermNachTER
          skin color is darker than European

          Who, excuse me, should be?



          Quote: TermNachTER
          So read Vadim Panov - "Enclaves"

          You are a fan of science fiction - yes :))
          1. ltc35 17 November 2019 17: 01 New
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            It is laid by nature. True French are Caucasians and not Negroids at all laughing
          2. TermNachTer 17 November 2019 19: 10 New
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            The French, in general, are Caucasians, and the fact that 40% of France now inhabits France is relevant only in the sense that they live in Europe. Regarding Panov - 20 years ago, it was fantastic, and now it looks more and more like the truth. There in Cologne, they rebuilt the mosque, more than Cologne Cathedral.
    2. Jager 15 November 2019 17: 18 New
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      Will be. True, the capital will slightly change its name to Al-Paris.
  • bars1 15 November 2019 17: 21 New
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    Here we have, “Dry” 10th family will serve approximately as much. Only we need to constantly upgrade them.
  • Sergey39 15 November 2019 17: 45 New
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    Key in the article: “Fourth generation French fighters will last until 2070, and sixth generation fighters will replace them”
    In 2070, sixth generation fighters will be replaced! In 50 years!
  • bk316 15 November 2019 18: 02 New
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    Yeah, and he will be called the fighter generation 4 +++++ laughing Plus for every 10 years.
  • voyaka uh 15 November 2019 20: 47 New
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    France has no choice.
    The fifth generation they slaped. Together with Germany-England with their Eurofighter.
    Now you have to weigh and weigh Rafal with new electronics (add
    "eyes and ears") to compensate for high radio visibility.
    How Israel weighs its "donkeys" F-16.
    Because of the countless hanging containers they already have the fuselage
    and wings are not visible. laughing
    1. Nycomed 15 November 2019 23: 16 New
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      Yes, indeed, you are right ...
  • Terenin 15 November 2019 22: 19 New
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    French Air Force intends to fly on the "Rafals" for another half a century

    Yes, who is arguing here winked . Now, if you replace the word "to fly" on "fight"then it is, Yes! Power! belay