French Air Force intends to fly on the "Rafals" for another half a century

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French Air Force intends to fly on the "Rafals" for another half a century

The French Air Force intends to use the Dassualt Rafale fighters for at least another half a century. As transmits "Warspot" citing the janes.com portal, the Air Force command is planning four stages of modernization of the fighter.

Fourth-generation French fighters will last until 2070, having gone through several modernizations, and they will be replaced by sixth-generation fighters, developed jointly by France, Germany and Spain as part of a program to create a promising aviation Future Combat Air System (FCAS) combat system, which will be based on the new Next Generation Weapon System (NGWS) combat aircraft.



According to the deputy chief of staff, plans and programs of the French Air Force, Major General Frederic Parisot, four more stages of the modernization of Rafale are planned.

Currently, the French Air Force operates fighter standard F3-R, which is a further modernization of the fighter Rafale F3. The development of the F3-R standard started back in the 2013 year and now has received official approval for use in the French Air Force and Navy.

A key feature of the F3-R is support for the MBDA Meteor missiles, the Thales Talios laser pointer, and the advanced Safran AASM satellite guidance system. In addition, aircraft upgraded to the new standard will receive updated sensors and a computer system.

In January of this year, it was announced the development of the next modification of the fighter - the F4 standard. The contract for the implementation of the F4 standard was signed by Eric Trappier, General Director of Dassault Aviation, and Florence Parley, French Minister of Defense.

According to the company's specialists, the F4 standard includes the refinement of the RBE2 radar with an active phased array, the TALIOS long-range radar guidance module and the Reco NG reconnaissance module (all equipment was manufactured by Thales). The modernization will also affect the communications complex, displays on the helmets of pilots. The machine will be equipped with a new engine control unit. In addition, fighters will be able to carry new missiles and precision bombs up to 1 thousand kg. The deck version ("Rafal-M") will receive an updated, all-weather and more accurate landing system on aircraft carriers.

The development of the following standards will become known as the aircraft becomes obsolete.

Recall, Rafale is a multi-purpose 4 generation fighter. His first flight took place in 1986 year. Adopted by the French Navy adopted in 2004 year, the Air Force began to arrive in 2006 year. Designed by French designers. Today it is the last aircraft created by a European country without foreign assistance. First used in combat in 2007 year in Afghanistan.
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    1. 0
      15 November 2019 16: 36
      To repeat the fate of the Mirage? God grant that ...
      1. -9
        15 November 2019 17: 18
        He is unlikely to repeat the success of Mirages, but nevertheless. When the French were developing "Raphael" something absurd came out. Overweight, with weak engines and radar. The work done on the errors, new engines and radar made it possible to fit into the requirements of the Air Force and the Navy.
        But even then misadventures did not leave the plane, because there were no export deliveries, and Saudi Arabia preferred Eurofighters. It was even planned to close the production line with a reduction in purchases by French operators. The case was saved by an Egyptian order for Saudi money.
        Today there is a Qatari order and an Indian one, albeit a truncated one. However, along with the modernization of previously delivered machines, production is loaded for five years. About 20 cars annually. A little, but ...
        The project came up, and then it will be visible. It’s painfully expensive.
        1. +4
          15 November 2019 18: 25
          BY THE LEVEL OF SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH ACTIVITY OF THE FRENCH IN A TEN LEADERS
          1. +1
            15 November 2019 23: 55
            I agree the French are not a bad plane created, the latest modifications at the level of su 35. But the rejection of 5th generation development and populist statements about 6th is not serious. If we take the parameters of the 6th generation, then there is no such technology yet, God forbid, in 20 years, which means they will be very behind
        2. +2
          15 November 2019 19: 17
          I wonder how this airplane will fight against the 5th generation machines? "Mirage" was in the 3rd and 4th - there was not much difference between generations, but there is a quality race. A completely different calico.
          1. -8
            15 November 2019 19: 25
            I think he will have a replacement in the role of a fighter, and he will live out his life longer in a bombing incarnation. 9,5 tons of maximum load - too heavy for the Su-30. This is against a serious opponent. For those against whom the French have become accustomed to fighting over the past 70 years, and "Raphael" will be behind the eyes.
            1. -1
              15 November 2019 19: 40
              If you hang 9,5 tons each time, how long is the glider's life?
              1. -5
                15 November 2019 20: 01
                So that's the maximum speed. Estimated. 6 tons easy and stress-free. Three standard hanging tanks, 4 UAB and 4 URVVB. Instead of UAB, SCALPs can take or nuclear ASMP (not all). Developing "Perseus". A toothy and obnoxious tactical bomber jacket can come out.
          2. nks
            0
            16 November 2019 11: 56
            If you really fight in the sky, then in addition to the skill of the pilots, the real TTX is important, and not the virtual nameplates of generations
        3. 0
          15 November 2019 22: 53
          To count on the Saudis in terms of the purchase of the Rafale would initially be unjustified. There the Britons were sitting and sitting firmly ("Hunter", "Lightning", "Tornado", "Typhoon"), but in terms of other PZ monarchies, it is still a question. With Qatar, everything seems to be "on the ointment", perhaps the UAE will catch up. And, yes, don't forget about the Indian contract and Egypt. Oh, dear - not dear, it's all under discussion ... feel
          1. nks
            0
            16 November 2019 11: 53
            Quote: Nycomed
            It would be unjustified to rely on the Saudis in terms of buying Rafale

            And nobody really counted on them - tovarisch is just a dreamer

            Quote: Nycomed
            With Qatar, everything seems to be "on the ointment"

            Qatar is already shipping
            Quote: Nycomed
            maybe the UAE will catch up

            But Dasso counted on the UAE and has been negotiating for a long time, but they still can’t.
        4. nks
          0
          16 November 2019 11: 48
          Quote: lexus
          He is unlikely to repeat the success of Mirages, but nevertheless.

          What kind of mirages?



          Quote: lexus
          When the French were developing "Raphael" something absurd came out. Overweight, with weak engines and radar.

          Where are you all making this up from?

          Quote: lexus
          About 20 cars annually. A little, but ...

          By the way, this is more than, for example, the Su-35


          Quote: lexus
          It’s painfully expensive.

          Rafale is similar in price to the su-35 (export), SuperHornet and F-35 (in fact, the F-35 is now more expensive).
          And F-15E, F-22, typhoon is more expensive than rafal.
          1. 0
            16 November 2019 11: 58
            Just now I read that one "rafal" costs the Indians - $ 120 million. At what price do you offer "drying"?
            1. nks
              0
              16 November 2019 12: 49
              The sides themselves for India cost ~ 3,2 yards of Euro for 28 single and 8 doubles. Total average price (sparks are more expensive than single) in euros ~ 89 million euros or at the current exchange rate ~ $ 98 million. 24 Su-35s sold to China for ~ $ 2,5 yards - consider for yourself
              1. 0
                16 November 2019 16: 08
                So, in Russia, as before in the USSR, the delivery set includes spare parts, ammunition, etc. And what goes with "Raphael"?
                1. nks
                  0
                  16 November 2019 16: 37
                  Don't be fancy about "ammunition, etc." The Chinese contract includes a spare set of engines for each side and ground equipment. They are about "extra" $ 150 million and fall. + - (there are no exact numbers of contracts anyway) a similar price is obtained
                  1. 0
                    16 November 2019 16: 42
                    At $ 12 million per engine? Not too cheap? Go to Wikipedia, look how much is the American or French counterpart.
                    1. nks
                      0
                      16 November 2019 17: 05
                      Firstly, you didn’t find something wrong, and secondly, I don’t know what you think is the French analogue of al-41F1S, but the M88 rafal costs about 4 million eur (a pair, respectively, 8 with copecks)
                      1. 0
                        16 November 2019 17: 27
                        We turn on the logic ... If two engines cost $ 10 million, then what are the remaining $ 80 million paid for?
                        1. nks
                          0
                          16 November 2019 17: 54
                          What are you talking about? Which two engines cost $ 10 million?
                        2. 0
                          16 November 2019 18: 01
                          It is you, not me. You say the Rafal engine is worth $ 10 million. So I'm wondering why the rest is so expensive?
                        3. nks
                          0
                          16 November 2019 18: 09
                          Something you have is really bad with everything - both with the score and with reading. :)

                          Quote: TermNachTER
                          You say the Rafal engine is worth $ 10 million

                          I didn't write that. And why do you think that "For $ 12 million per engine." ... "very cheap", but for the rest of the plane actually "$ 80 million" - expensive?
                        4. 0
                          16 November 2019 18: 23
                          You wrote a little higher that the M - 88, for the "Raphael" costs 4 million euros, respectively, two engines cost 10 million dollars. So I ask, what are the other $ 80 million paid for?
                        5. nks
                          0
                          16 November 2019 18: 29
                          8 million euros is not $ 10 million. Okay, I won’t ask why $ 80 million, but imagine - they pay for the plane itself (that is, a glider, a bunch of units in it and avionics and other equipment).
                        6. 0
                          16 November 2019 18: 54
                          Usually the cost of engines, somewhere around 25-40% of the cost of the aircraft. You just have a chic airplane - the cost of two engines is about 10%. Engage in the sale of aircraft - you will succeed.)))
                        7. nks
                          0
                          16 November 2019 19: 47
                          Usually people need to know a little about the issue they are discussing. However, this is not very common on this site. Why are you arguing with the figures from the parliamentary report with your "logic" and strange arithmetic (although in 2019 the m88 for India may cost a little more), but ask at least the real prices for the Russian RD-33 AL-31/41 and their share in the cost of the aircraft, despite the fact that the avionics of the Raphal are much more functional (judging by your comments below about the design of the airframe of the aircraft and its construction, you also have a poor idea)

                          PS: Thanks for the advice, maybe I'll do it later, but I'm not interested in a net salesman - I'm still an engineer
                        8. 0
                          16 November 2019 20: 29
                          Well, I still work at the aircraft engine plant, although not as an engineer, but this is not the point. True, the factory does not make engines for combat aircraft, but for transport, UBS and helicopters. But as I understand it, this is also not very important.
                          Because, how much does a modern turbojet engine really cost? Therefore, I do not believe that electronic filling costs 80% of the cost of the aircraft.
                        9. nks
                          0
                          16 November 2019 21: 12
                          Do you work there somewhere in the management / finance department? I understand from your earlier words that you have some engines worth> $ 10 million. If so, which ones can you find out?
                          Quote: TermNachTER
                          Therefore, I do not believe that electronic filling costs 80% of the cost of the aircraft.

                          Firstly, I did not say that avionics cost 80%. Just the cost of materials and the manufacture and assembly of the airframe is difficult to assess immediately (for example, the labor costs for the production of the F-16A and F-16C differed 1,5 times), and the avionics functionality is lighter.
                          And secondly, how can your work on aircraft engine building give you something in understanding this issue?
                        10. 0
                          16 November 2019 21: 49
                          My job allows me to understand the real cost of today's turbojet engine. M - 88 cannot cost 4 million euros, for one simple reason - this does not happen. If in Russia or the United States, a similar engine costs $ 12-20 million or more, but then the boom is like a "devil from a snuffbox" - the French. New engine for $ 5 million. Officially, the development cost is 1,5 billion euros. How many engines should be produced to "recoup" the money invested in development.
                        11. nks
                          0
                          17 November 2019 01: 04
                          Quote: TermNachTER
                          If in Russia or the USA, a similar engine costs $ 12 - $ 20 million or more

                          So you haven’t said which engine (not even a similar one) costs> $ 10 million?

                          Specifically, a similar (including in size and thrust) Russian engine rd-33 of India was sold in general a little more than $ 1 million.
                          http://www.finmarket.ru/news/522000
                          Similar American (slightly larger, but larger-scale, although pre-generation)
                          https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/03/30/us-navy-awards-114m-order-for-new-hornet-engines/
                          ~ $ 4 million
                          yes, the ej200 typhoon (again, it’s bigger) is more expensive ~ $ 6 million pounds, but it’s still substantially less than $ 10 million

                          You seem to be comparing it with f135, ​​but it is much larger and it does not cost any "$ 20 million or more"
                        12. 0
                          17 November 2019 11: 13
                          People have learned to juggle with figures for a long time. The cost of creating M - 88, 1,5 billion euros - this is the official report. The cost of the engine is 4 million euros. How many engines do you need to sell to simply "recoup" investments in development and manufacture, not to mention the wages of workers and the capitalist's profits?
                        13. nks
                          0
                          17 November 2019 16: 14
                          You can learn to juggle, but you are bad at it and at the same time you talk about 10 objects, and show only one, and even that one constantly falls. So where is your> $ 10M engine? Why is TV3 - 117 here?

                          Quote: TermNachTER
                          1,5 billion euros - this is an official report

                          Seriously? Ah ah ah. am
                          In general, the cost of development is very indirectly related to our topic. The selling prices of various engines are just a fact (links to the news that I cited above are easy to google, it will take a little longer to find these data on off-site sites). How they are formed, what is the cost of production, the share of investment in development and the rate of profit is another question. But in principle, a little about the cost of development. Everything is simple here - in general, the state paid for the development. This is GOZ
                        14. 0
                          17 November 2019 11: 15
                          PS $ 1 million costs the engine 3 TV - 117 of the "Motor Sich" plant, but this is an engine of a completely different class and those. opportunities.
                        15. 0
                          17 November 2019 11: 55
                          And once again PS just in the news feed posted the information - the cost of the order is 7,87 billion euros, i.e. the cost of each side - 218 million euros, and if in bucks, then in general the darkness. Or did I count the wrong again?
                        16. nks
                          0
                          17 November 2019 16: 17
                          Well, I wrote that this is the cost of the boards themselves in the contract. And so there are a lot of things. Actually, nobody announced the general price of the contract and the details, of course, it appeared from an insider on the indiandefence forum on the day the contract was signed. The same infa was also circulated in the Indian press, from where it is periodically published here to one degree or another.
                          .
                          PS: There is of the data in the budget reports of the French parliament - there they rafed somewhat cheaper. But for Qatar (also unofficially) the option for 12 boards cost 1,1 billion euros (it turned out a little more expensive)
                        17. 0
                          17 November 2019 16: 38
                          Last time I explain that the latest engine for a fighter cannot cost so little. Engine D - 486, for passenger and transport aircraft - costs about $ 4 million, depending on the volume of the order, a little more or a little less. The engine for a fighter cannot cost the same, because it is more complex in design, and is designed for more difficult operating conditions.
    2. 0
      15 November 2019 16: 40
      But the glider can withstand it, is there enough resource for it? After all, airplanes will not stand in hangars like museum exhibits, they will probably participate in hostilities. ..
      1. +4
        15 November 2019 16: 45
        Perhaps we are talking about the further production of this aircraft.
      2. +5
        15 November 2019 17: 17
        TU-95 is also ancient as a guano mammoth. But he still has to fly and fly.
        1. 0
          16 November 2019 12: 00
          With what overload does a heavy bomber and fighter fly? Do not catch the differences?
          1. +1
            16 November 2019 16: 30
            Well, the design life is calculated taking into account the specifics of the application.
            1. +1
              16 November 2019 16: 32
              You want to say that "Raphal" has a metal thickness of which spars or ribs are made eight times thicker than that of Tu? However, metal fatigue affects different metal thicknesses in the same way.
              1. 0
                18 November 2019 18: 46
                We compared the bus and Kamaz "Dakar". Cho, frame, metal, even diesel is almost the same))
      3. nks
        0
        16 November 2019 11: 50
        Enough of a resource for what? In general, here we are talking about the timing of the program, and not about specific sides. Well, of course, there are enough errors in the news
    3. -1
      15 November 2019 16: 51
      The old "Shkval", it seems, will not spoil the furrow. But also...
    4. +2
      15 November 2019 17: 04
      And you remember how long the Yak-3s from Normandy-Neman served with the French, and they fought on them. Consider the level of technology of those times and the current. So it may well be.
      1. +1
        15 November 2019 23: 15
        "The quality of the welding is on par with the village blacksmith. However, the exterior is beautiful." This is the opinion of the French about the Yak-3. And the transfer of these aircraft to them was simply an ideological step of Stalin. With the French, in the active Air Force, they did not serve for a very long time, although this memory is very much appreciated there.
        1. +1
          16 November 2019 09: 13
          Do not forget that aircraft were made during the war, when the age of the fighter was very short. The fighter does not give a damn about the internal, and by and large the appearance, the main thing for him is the aerobatic properties, speed and power of the armament. Everything else is secondary. It is natural that they were removed from military operations after the war, jet technology went, but they served as training machines until the mid-fifties.
    5. -9
      15 November 2019 17: 11
      Will France exist by then?
      1. +5
        15 November 2019 17: 16
        And Cho, are there prerequisites for the disappearance of France?
        1. +1
          17 November 2019 12: 02
          Given the number of inhabitants of North African, Arab, etc. origin, the issue of preserving the French as a nation is quite acute. Some argue that already 40% have a darker skin color than a European should be. And the situation is only getting worse - because the Arabs have 3-4 and more children in the family, and the French have 1, rarely 2. And the migration continues. So read Vadim Panov - "Enclaves"
          1. nks
            0
            17 November 2019 16: 35
            Quote: TermNachTER
            skin color is darker than European

            Who, excuse me, should be?



            Quote: TermNachTER
            So read Vadim Panov - "Enclaves"

            You are a fan of science fiction - yes :))
            1. 0
              17 November 2019 17: 01
              It is laid by nature. True French are Caucasians and not Negroids at all laughing
            2. 0
              17 November 2019 19: 10
              The French, in general, are Caucasians, and the fact that 40% of France now inhabits France is relevant only in the sense that they live in Europe. Regarding Panov - 20 years ago, it was fantastic, and now it looks more and more like the truth. There in Cologne, they rebuilt the mosque, more than Cologne Cathedral.
      2. +3
        15 November 2019 17: 18
        Will be. True, the capital will slightly change its name to Al-Paris.
    6. +3
      15 November 2019 17: 21
      Here, too, the "Sukhi" of the 10th family will serve approximately that long, but they must be constantly modernized.
    7. +1
      15 November 2019 17: 45
      Key in the article: "French fourth-generation fighters will serve until 2070, and sixth-generation fighters will replace them."
      In 2070, sixth generation fighters will be replaced! In 50 years!
    8. +5
      15 November 2019 18: 02
      Yeah, and he will be called the fighter generation 4 +++++ laughing Plus for every 10 years.
    9. +6
      15 November 2019 20: 47
      France has no choice.
      The fifth generation they slaped. Together with Germany-England with their Eurofighter.
      Now you have to weigh and weigh Rafal with new electronics (add
      "eyes and ears") to compensate for the high radio signature.
      How Israel weighs its "donkeys" F-16.
      Because of the countless hanging containers they already have the fuselage
      and wings are not visible. laughing
      1. -3
        15 November 2019 23: 16
        Yes, indeed, you are right ...
    10. +4
      15 November 2019 22: 19
      French Air Force intends to fly on the "Rafals" for another half a century

      Yes, who is arguing here winked . Now, if you replace the word "to fly" on "fight"then it is, Yes! Power! belay

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