Zakharova reacted to the Dutch investigation adding the name Shoigu to the MH17 case

The so-called international investigation team, "working" in the Netherlands in the case of the downed Boeing, decided to move to a "new level."

Obviously not satisfying the customers of this pseudo-investigation with statements about “Russia's involvement”, Dutch investigators, 5,5 years after the events over Donbass, suddenly announced that almost all the heads of Russian law enforcement agencies could be involved in the case.

So, in the report, which the official representative of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs Maria Zakharova called complete absurdity, the Dutch investigation decided to include such names as Sergey Shoigu (Minister of Defense of Russia) and Alexander Bortnikov (director of the FSB). There, according to The Bell resource, the assistant to the President of the Russian Federation, Vladislav Surkov, was added.

The explanation from the investigation looks really more than absurd:

The surname Shoigu is in radio intercepts from the territories of Donbass, not controlled by Kiev.

Allegedly, a militia said that "people with powers from Shoigu" arrive in the Donbass.

Does this mean that any mention of the names of Shoigu, Surkov and Bortnikov automatically makes these people involved in the case, according to the Dutch investigation team?

And how many times did the Ukrainian military in the Donbass use the names of the heads of Ukrainian law enforcement agencies in the negotiations?

Maria Zakharova:

This is some kind of absurdity. We live in a world that is struggling with fake, and we proceed from the fact that fakes have been published on this topic many times, and then after a month or two they get a proper expert evaluation.

Maria Zakharova noted that she was not going to give a political assessment of the statements, because these statements would first have to be examined by experts.

Comments

[SERGOL]

Next supreme

[Thrall]

I can’t understand one thing. The information war from the Western world towards Russia has been waged for more than one century. Now, of course, the era of the Internet and all that, but have all the propaganda and provocative nonsense designed for the western man in the first place, the newspapers of the Russian Empire brought to their forefront.
A place for similar news on the last page in the small column "Psychiatric News"

[1976AG]

If we take the old days, then "the earth was full of rumors." And the rulers were thrown information about the alleged intentions of another ruler to attack him. In this way, and in Russia, relatives were turned against each other, which often became the cause of civil strife. The media were different, but the methods were the same.

[Spartanez300]

It's just that this "investigation" has nothing to investigate because they have reached a dead end and do not see a way out of it, and they do not want to accept Russia's help because facts that are not in their suit may emerge. And since they have been rubbing their pants there for five years and are used to receiving free money, they come up with new crazy versions.

[Evil echo]

Or acquired more fun shmal

[orionvitt]

The surname Shoigu is in radio intercepts from the territories of Donbass

"Hittler, Hitler, I am Zhukov." That they smoke there at all .. As I understand it, such an absurdity, in nature, can not be. But he is. Maybe there are recipes for how to treat it? There is such a method, according to the recipe of J.V. Stalin.

[Lbt21]

We ourselves are to blame, we have already "helped" the investigation (and an attack aircraft at an altitude of 10000 km, and pilot Voloshin, and a dispatcher, and this is not a beech, but if the beech is not ours) and what do you want now gentlemen? He who lied once has no faith!

[Lbt21]

Yes, and the suspect does not take part in the investigation of his crime, but sits quietly at the base!

[svp67]

Quote: Lbt21

Yes, and the suspect does not take part in the investigation of his crime, but sits quietly at the base!

Yes? And then, then, Ukraine is climbing into the investigation? In the normal conduct of the investigation, it first of all became suspect. Too many questions to her. Which either do not ask, or receive formal answers to them and calm down ...

[svp67]

Quote: Lbt21

And where is Ukraine? The investigation seems to have questions for Russia !!!!

But it is surprising that this, if I may say "investigation", has no questions to the country, which allowed such a tragedy on its territory and, most importantly, HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY to commit it, deploying the same Buk complexes in that area

[poquello]

Quote: Lbt21

And where is Ukraine? The investigation seems to have questions for Russia !!!!

this is not a consequence, this is a group of custom jesters

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Lbt21

We ourselves are to blame, we have already "helped" the investigation (and an attack aircraft at an altitude of 10000 km, and pilot Voloshin, and a dispatcher, and this is not a beech, but if the beech is not ours) and what do you want now gentlemen? He who lied once has no faith!

apparently, from your help, the investigators moved their heads to the end !!! With all this, Voloshin strangely threw back his hooves, nobody found the dispatcher so alive, and the Ragul "beeches", standing right in the area of ​​the downed Boeing, only degenerates do not see at close range !!!

[Chaldon48]

The reasons for this chatter under the name "Investigation" are, firstly, this is an unauthorized order of the United States to denigrate Russia and its top officials;

[Alexander Petrov1]

Well, to whom it was profitable for anyone to bring down the Boeing, but not only Russia but only Ukraine to be a victim of the type of aggression, and the whole smart world understands this ...

[poquello]

Quote: Lbt21

Russia one question, where did Buk ???

and to dill three, from where, or rather, what did three beech trees do?

[poquello]

Quote: Lbt21

Dill on their territory, they may have 33 beech! (They don’t ask from Russia how many beeches we have?) The question is what did the beech do In the hands of the LNRDNR?

But was he there at all? and 33 beeches from their territory by no means shoot, funny

[Lbt21]

So now we are in the role of Libya and GDP In the role of Gaddafi!

[poquello]

Quote: Lbt21

So now we are in the role of Libya and GDP In the role of Gaddafi!

in Trolls, you are in Trolls, and we are in Russia

[Lbt21]

I don’t know where you are, but I am in Russia!

[IL-18]

Quote: Thrall

Information war from the western world regarding Russia

Check out today's news ru.com. There, they referred slightly to a certain JIT, and then the text of the negotiations, drawn up with banknotes on the mat, and the phone numbers, and the GRU were carefully stuck, for postponing to the readers' subcortex.
Its enough.

[poquello]

Quote: IL-18

drawn up with bills on a mat,

it’s not with banknotes on the mat, those are continuous gluing, those are slicing, those are sound collage, Zakharova has no obscene words, so the rebuttal looks diplomatically

[210ox]

Without women, life was boring, without fools, unbearable.

[Greg Miller]

Quote: 210ox

Without women, life was boring, without fools, unbearable.

Dmitry welcome There is no sense in discussing this fake "investigation". In all this, the reaction of the Russian authorities seems to me the most interesting. Toothless "declared decisive protests" and "expressed concerns" - is this really all that the Russian Foreign Ministry is capable of ???

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Greg Miller

Toothless "stated strong protests" and "expressed concerns"

Quote: 210ox

Life was boring without women, unbearable without fools

In this case, I agree. Although in this case - not an alternatively smart, but a typical Internet troll.

But without them, too - boring

[Sergey1987]

Quote: Greg Miller

Toothless "declared decisive protests" and "expressed concerns" - is this really all that the Russian Foreign Ministry is capable of ???

And do not share your thoughts with the critic, what should the Foreign Ministry do in your understanding?

[Alexander I]

What does a nuclear bomb threaten?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Thrall

A place for similar news on the last page in the small column "Psychiatric News"

Maybe Zakharova meant experts in this field?

Maria Zakharova noted that she is not going to give a political assessment of the statements, because these statements will first have to be studied to experts

[1536]

Dear, you, apparently, did not listen to the radio station "Voice of America" ​​that year in 1978. Do you know how cool it was? Through the noise and crackle of the air on the VEF radio receiver (there was such a brand of Soviet radios, which, it seems, were produced in Latvia), Soviet people eagerly listened to announcers from distant Washington, or rather, the Athenian CIA center in Greece, who read with a slight accent "fresh news" about the ongoing in the Soviet Union "outrages", oppression, violations of human rights, dissidents, etc. "truth" about the USSR and about these people themselves. And then there was no one to refute this nonsense, the CPSU Central Committee also naively believed that at 31 meters of short waves, Soviet people simply could not find anything, and the Mayak radio station was much more interesting. But suddenly, all of a sudden, 1991 came, when suddenly the USSR, a great country that was not afraid of slander, but did not oppose it, did not notice it, and the Soviet people were gone.
For good, you need to call the Dutch ambassador in Moscow and throw in his face a note of protest over the so-called investigation of the disaster in the Donbass, the lies of the Dutch media and the government of this country of the red light district.

[GKS 2111]

"Obviously not satisfying the customers of this pseudo-investigations with statements about "involvement in Russia", Dutch investigators 5,5 years after the events over the Donbass suddenly announced that almost all the heads of Russian law enforcement agencies could be involved in the case."
Well, obviously the case is sewn with white thread ...

[Alien From]

The louder the bark, the better for us, they have no evidence. A mongrel barks at an elephant ........

[svp67]

Quote: GKS 2111

Well, obviously the case is sewn with white thread ...

Forgive me, but all these "radio communications" in a normal court cannot be accepted as some kind of evidence. There are too many rules for presenting them in this form, so all these "stuffing" is all about psychological pressure

[jonht]

Degenerates, immediately include the whole country in the list and do not worry ....
In fact, the worms ate the brain from the commission or the dementia virus was picked up, M yes ...

[Hagalaz]

More than normal and smart people in the commission. And even very thought out. Fulfill the order, in the methods are not shy. Well this is because you need to have the ability, so concoct a thing.
Well, our country has long been on their lists.

[Flooding]

Moreover, tossing and pouring into the brew is the only way to continue the process.
Otherwise, you have to put it on the table. Obviously, the hostess is not ready yet.
Although, I’m sure, get to this - they will frown, but they will dredge everything so as not to offend the stern lady.

[Santa Fe]

Degenerates, immediately include the whole country in the list and do not worry ....

We DO NOT owe anything to anyone and we (the Russians) have nothing to do with it. Joint you can take the blame, but you don’t need to hand over others

Let the GDP, Shoigu and co. They won’t want it!

How to take the loot over the hill - so private property. And how to resolve your troubles - STAND UP A HUGE COUNTRY ...

[jonht]

And where does the WINE? They called you a thief in the store, and you immediately shed a tear? Or they still managed to call the police and investigate this "misunderstanding" .... In this case, they are trying to hang on Us something that cannot even be pulled by the ears, or easier .... They are trying to pull the Owl onto the globe, smearing it with various fakes the accuracy cannot be confirmed.

[maidan.izrailovich]

Holland is a small but smelly six of the Anglo-Saxons.
The only and effective way in the current conditions to pull up the presumptuous mongrel is to inflict economic damage. Dutch companies do business all over the world. It is necessary to interfere with this business by any means. The history of capitalism has accumulated a lot of ways to harm the business of the "partner". And since Russia is a capitalist country, it's time to take advantage of this.

[voyaka uh]

It's not easy...
Dutch GDP 0.9 trillion dollars,
Russia's GDP is 1.6 trillion dollars.

[maidan.izrailovich]

It's not easy...
Dutch GDP 0.9 trillion dollars,
Russia's GDP is 1.6 trillion dollars.

The whole trouble is that in Russia the army and navy continue to be used as under socialism. Only to protect the Fatherland. That's right. This is the main purpose of the aircraft. But now we are a capitalist country. And to this main function can and should be added the function of protecting the economic interests of the country and individual Russian companies. What does the whole world.
Will we measure the sun and their capabilities with Holland?
Anticipating your possible response. We are not talking about direct military influence on the Netherlands.
The armed forces should become a full-fledged continuation of foreign policy and trade. In the capitalist world, this is the norm.

[Charik]

legalized drugs and prostitution, it's time to send (with a newbie's can and a backpack of polonium) "a couple" on a business trip.

[Mountain shooter]

Sharp what ... That will take Shoigu, and will appear. For interrogation. fantastic nonsense! Marijuana is allowed in the Netherlands, it seems ... Then it’s clear where the fantasies come from ...

[Deathmaker]

He will take and appear. On the tank. And through the barrel he will ask - "Are there any questions?"

[Charik]

legalize full even heroin if I'm not mistaken + prostitution + LGBT

[SOF]

Maria Zakharova noted that she was not going to give a political assessment of the statements, because these statements experts will have to study first

...... as I understand it, what do specialists in psychiatry mean? ....
.... if so, then why not say it without allegory .... offer Holland high-quality military medical care ..... from Shoigu ....

[askort154]

All CIA developments against Russia, with surprising consistency, are being turned by the Western media into long-playing, hackneyed records.
Despite their quality, they are regularly pulled out of the chest and twisted in a new way.

[Proton]

Kuzhegetych right now probably thought, “But not to send a couple more swans to train”

[anjey]

It is necessary to answer adequately, all the "Dutch" cheese in our market, rename to "Russian" and the word "Dutchman" (Dutch) in the century is considered a synonym for swearing (just kidding) But seriously, the fools in power in Europe, it seems for a long time.

[Zeev Zeev]

This is some kind of absurdity. We live in a world that is struggling with fake, and we proceed from the fact that fakes have been published on this topic many times, and then after a month or two they get a proper expert evaluation.

Spanish dispatcher (there is his testimony), Su-25 (there is evidence of eyewitnesses who saw the plane at an altitude of 10 km), Su-27 (there is a "satellite photo"), Israeli Derby missiles (do not care not evidence, the main thing is that Israeli ), once again the Su-25 (there is a "technician testimony" to the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation), the Ukrainian Buk from Zaroshchenskoye (don't care if the settlement was under the control of the DPR, the main thing is that there are tests of Almaz-Antey and "video from cabins with SBU officers "). Have I forgotten anything?
Damn, if on the second day the DPR would say that they shot down the Boeing by mistake, because a Ukrainian transport plane was flying below it, and they would appoint switchmen on duty (an old farmer who lost his daughter under the bombs of the Bandera, a third-year radio engineering student Donetsk University (always with a bride), even a volunteer from Russia who came to "fight the Nazis") and promised to pay compensation as soon as "the young republic gets on its feet", then there would be no investigations and the names of Shoigu would not sound right now, Bortnikov and everyone else.

[Moskovit]

Katz offers to surrender (s).

[Zeev Zeev]

Katz don’t give up. And Russia could have avoided reputational and financial losses. But the train left.

[Moskovit]

First, to admit, this must be done. You were there, you know the truth, right? Therefore, they boldly appointed the militia as the culprits.
Secondly, the position of the West cannot be mitigated by any surrender. It will bring nothing but shame. Libya is an example to you. Yanukovych will confirm.

[Zeev Zeev]

Well, if you don’t admit, there will be sanctions. And who shot down - and so it is clear. Unlike the broad Ukrainians, who accuse the Russian Federation of wanting to shoot down a Russian airliner in order to get an open invasion of Ukraine, I think that the calculation (it doesn’t matter in this case, the Russian calculation or the local ones) was sure that shoots at the Ukrainian transporter. But crooked hands led to a terrible tragedy, which could not be washed away by hundreds of fakes. It would be better to really appoint switchmen from the DPR (only immediately), but it turned out that your country fell under the distribution.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

And who shot down - and so it is clear.

That's right - it's so clear that they shot down the Ukrainian military, on which this Boeing was directed from Europe itself - first in Germany they adjusted the course further south, then in Poland even further south, then in Ukraine they again adjusted its course so that the board would pass in the very epicenter of hostilities ... And then the media screamed about the shooting down of the Boeing by "Russian troops" a few hours after its fall ...
And therefore, it is necessary to cover Ukraine - 5 years it has been smeared, they cannot cover it in any way. And believe me - another five years they will otmazyvat, trying to shift to Russia ...

[Zeev Zeev]

One and a half hundred planes flew through this center of war on the same day, both before and after. Including Russian. Above the same Thorez, Snowy, Head, etc.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

One and a half hundred planes flew through this center of war on the same day, both before and after. Including Russian. Above the same Thorez, Snowy, Head, etc.

Oh, yes, hundreds of them))) And right all of them flew clearly over the place of deployment of Ukrainian air defense units, which for some reason shortly before that were pulled into the region, although the "separives" did not have any aviation ... And most importantly - all of them the course was diligently corrected, so that just over the Ukrainian air defense they passed ...
And most importantly - AFTER there they stopped flying very fast ...

[poquello]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

, I think that the crew (and in this case it doesn’t matter whether the Russian crew or the locals were there) was sure that it was shooting at a Ukrainian transporter.

it’s harmful for you to think, smoke the air defense organization in ONE beech, and dill transporters who shot down, shot down on landing

[Chit]

Yes ... Maybe that would be the best option.
What happened? It turned out according to Vereshchagin - it’s a shame for the State.
For me, misunderstandings began on the night immediately after the tragedy. Putin’s appeal to the United States looked very unusual, as did Putin himself. Why at night? Reported? So we have everything under control. Satellite intelligence and all that jazz. It’s clear that the Ukrainians shot down. Why such urgency with the appeal? And this confusion, which could not be hidden ... I will not hide, I have crept in some doubts.
Well, then ... Then the circus began. You have listed far from all the versions that were put forward at different times by the RF Ministry of Defense, Almaz-Antey, journalists, "eyewitnesses" and others. Moreover, there were versions that were mutually exclusive at best, at worst - contradicting each other. The versions are ridiculous, anecdotal, absurd. How can you take seriously the words of the late Zakharchenko that he saw with the naked eye at an altitude of 10000 m an aircraft with Ukrainian identification marks?
How can you seriously take versions of MO (I’ve already lost count, how many were there) if they end up being fakes, like the fake Twitter account of manager Carlos? I mean the statements of Kartopolov and Parshin.
How can one take into account the nonsense that Mr. Leontyev carried about some Ukrainian kilometer-long aircraft?
After all, all this does not cause laughter. It causes bitterness. And indicates a clear confusion and inability to answer convincing facts. And all this is crossed out by one statement by Girkin (at that time still a national hero of Russia) about a downed bird that is lying somewhere there. Acc, however, quickly wiped away, but manuscripts do not burn ...
Doesn't the RF Ministry of Defense know that the whole world also uses photoshop, Yandex maps and Google? Why is it so stupid to substitute? Why disgrace? After all, any fake is exposed instantly. Well, for internal use it will. What to say to the West?
After all, you need to understand: in Germany, Great Britain, Australia or the USA no one reads VO with his comments. They read the findings of the international commission of inquiry. And her preliminary findings are such that they directly indicate involvement in the tragedy of 53 SAMs deployed in Kursk, with specific surnames. But there will also be final conclusions! There will be a court verdict. We won’t get anywhere from this. And there may come up other names. For it is clear to the child that no brigade commander will move a unit of equipment across the state border without an order from above.
I often argue with opponents. They usually tell me: the facts to accuse the LPR / DPR or Russia are not enough. I agree. But then I ask - are there enough facts to accuse Ukraine? Bring them. In addition to unclosed airspace, for this has already been dealt with. The opponent usually hesitates, because all the loud fakes are just ridiculous. Usually rests on Zaroschenskoe. I give a lot of links refuting this version. Opponent speaks of some data on radar control transmitted by Russia to the Netherlands. I agree. But I clarify that for some reason they do not comply with the international standard and it is impossible to use them. Strange, huh?
Then follows a killer argument about the numbers on the rocket and its belonging to Ukraine. I give a lot of links that convince the opponent that in the story with numbers there are more dark spots than light ones. No wonder the topic stalled so quickly even in our media.
And also? The opponent crumbles ... Then he says: Yes, everyone knows that the Ukrainians shot down! The argument, of course, is strong. But not convincing.
But the international commission has an argument against Russia with a wagon and a small cart. And you can talk about the order as much as you like, but you won’t be able to dismiss them.
And what to do now is unknown. After so much time bustling, turn on the back will not work.
But if, in due time, they had correctly orientated themselves, today the prestige of Russia would be at its best. And there would be no sanctions. You just had to admit the obvious. To agree that the Boeing was shot down by mistake, that Girkin’s militias were waiting for the Ukrainian transport An-26. They would find scapegoats, the international position of Russia would not suffer.
What to do now?
But the story is still far away ...

[aszzz888]

Chit Today, 12: 03 NEW ... You just had to admit the obvious. Agree that the Boeing was shot down by mistake ...

And where does this come from ?! Although it is clear where the wind blows.

[Flooding]

The sanctions forced a sober look at the state of things in the country and in the world.
Russia cannot afford to be in a relaxed state. Never. This is an axiom.
Take the blame for killing many people in exchange for gingerbread cookies?
Are you kidding or raving?

[Chit]

It is not a matter of sanctions, although this is essential.
The point is the international prestige of the Russian Federation.
I ask again: what will happen after the final conclusion of the commission of inquiry?
If Russia is directly blamed? Does anyone think about this?
We can argue on the resource here even to the point of turning blue.
Who cares? Who reads this, except for a very limited circle of people?
The world will take information from the conclusions of the commission and the court. Does anyone doubt what the verdict will be?
You can come up with a bunch of more absurd versions of the tragedy. But what does that change? For Russia? For her reputation, credibility?
Do you know how I am different from cheers-patriots? Hooray-patriot does not recognize any facts. No evidence. For him, the MO said is dogma. It is sacred. And not questioned. Said MO: The Boeing was shot down by Su-24 cannons (25?) - that's it! No doubt. Then, however, the same MO asserts the exact opposite: the Boeing was hit by a Buk missile! All! Dot! Do not argue! Hooray-patriot does not argue.
And I have questions ...
If Ukraine was shot down, why not give more solid evidence? Without Photoshop? No overlays and collages?
If there is a suspicion of Girkin's militia, why are these throwing and throwing? Fail - stick to one version!
Why come up with new ones? Piling one on top of the other? MO does not understand how it looks from the outside? What does it cause only laughter?
Unlike the cheer patriots, a true patriot of Russia is always concerned about how his country looks in the eyes of the world community. He should not be ashamed of his country. He must be proud that the prestige of his homeland is on top. With the authority of the country, its reputation should always be above suspicion.

[Flooding]

1. You yourself have deigned to mention the sanctions. Now it's not about them. A sober view of the "partners" is very important. And not only among the so-called elite, but also among the country's population. Therefore, sanctions are very important for the West as an instrument, and for Russia, as a bitter sobering pill.
2. International prestige. Interestingly, has the state’s prestige ever been determined to a greater extent by anything other than its power and self-esteem? The economy? Not in the first place, if we are talking about big politics. But even if we talked about her, darling, isn’t GDP growth related to management efficiency in the first place?
3. Russia is already being blamed. By "directly" you probably mean the top officials of the partner states? No? Rather not, since it would be foolish to make the temperature of relations directly dependent on the conclusions of the biased commission. Then, perhaps, you meant that such a guilty verdict would provide another instrument of pressure to the West? Well then, was it worth waiting for five years to get it? Something does not merge, I think, with their accusatory base, because it is difficult to suspect the West in the absence of such a desire.
4. Unlike cheers, any patriot does not care about how his country looks for ... Stop, for whom? For the world community? Sooo vague. For the countries of which continent, which camp? In the eyes of most affected Malaysia? They have just the least complaints against Russia.

[Chit]

The country's international prestige is not least dependent on whether the country is accused of committing a state crime. And it is precisely in this today that the international investigative group directly accuses the Russian Federation of specifying specific names.
It’s not worth worrying about five years; there have been cases in the history of aviation when disasters were investigated even more. For example, Russia, for the ninth year, does not give up the wreckage of Lech Kaczynski’s plane. And nobody in Russia cares, in the order of things.
The accusatory base is a loop of rope, and it is being tightened ever tighter. And there is a likelihood that in 2020 in this case the end will be put.
That’s why I ask: is there any sense in going to failure to the end? If they still press against the wall? And what will we look like then? After all, even the patriots understand that there are too many facts against us. And these facts are killer.
What the country looks like ... Frankly, sometimes it’s not very. Okay, from the very beginning we went into denial. Okay, Ukraine was blamed for everything. But why not go all the way? If Ukraine shot down, why not seek an investigation?
Instead, in 2015, Russia blocked the UN Security Council resolution on an international tribunal for the Boeing MH17. How to understand? After all, Ukraine brought down! So let the international tribunal prove it!
Or Ukraine did not bring down?
Did someone else hit?
Then much becomes clear ...

[Flooding]

Chit
If you distort, then the discussion of any topics will lose its meaning.
Between "the ninth year the investigation continues" and "the ninth year the wreckage of the aircraft has not been issued" there is a huge gap. These are absolutely not equivalent things.

Quote: Chit

After all, even the patriots understand that there are too many facts against us. And these facts are killer.

I do not understand this. What does it mean? That I'm not a jingoistic patriot? Or what do you and I put in the concept of fact different meanings?
You judge the slaughter of the evidence base, based on what?

Quote: Chit

If Ukraine shot down, why not seek an investigation?
Instead, in 2015, Russia blocks the UN Security Council resolution on an international tribunal for the Boeing MH17

Do you need a tribunal to investigate? That's for sure?
Or was the tribunal a guillotine, under which it was urged to set the neck?

[poquello]

Quote: Flood

You judge the slaughter of the evidence base, based on what?

from his chatter, he judges, as usual, "if you say 10 times, the sediment will remain", there can be no intelligible evidence there in principle - because the case is hollow, and after the expected decision of this Dutch big top it is necessary to roll claims in all courts starting from locals on deliberate agreement with the use of official position, so that the investigators of the "international" organization have a minimum of problems in Russia

[Flooding]

I would not want to be categorical in my judgments, but the citizen acts professionally. Feel the preparation.

[poquello]

Quote: Flood

I would not want to be categorical in my judgments, but the citizen acts professionally. Feel the preparation.

it is not at all necessary, all this garbage is stuffed with the so-called "free media", including completely free (IMHO from conscience) Ukrop media, and after all, they sacredly believe contrary to logic

[Sewer krainiy]

But do not you think that Russia is hiding the joker in the sleeve, and the Dutch are aware of this. Therefore, this effect stretches to infinity. Maybe in court, if it takes place, we learn something new. And so basically the speculation of the Internet, the media.

If Ukraine was shot down, why not give more solid evidence? Without Photoshop? No overlays and collages?

[poquello]

Quote: Chit

And all this is crossed out by one statement by Girkin (at that time still a national hero of Russia) about a downed bird that is lying somewhere there. Acc, however, quickly wiped away, but manuscripts do not burn ...

all that is higher than demagogy and crap, and the remarks of Girkin or anyone else can be explained in a trite way - they heard, saw, rejoiced, in no way did these remarks confirm participation.

Quote: Chit

Yes ... with specific names.

oh yes, even specific places of gas production are "newbie", it is a specific trust)))))

Quote: Chit

For it is clear to the child that no brigade commander will move a unit of equipment across the state border without an order from above.

it is usually clear to the child that no matter what technique crosses the border (although this is also a question), there is no reason for her to shoot

Quote: Chit

Opponent speaks of some data on radar control transmitted by Russia to the Netherlands. I agree. But I clarify that for some reason they do not comply with the international standard and it is impossible to use them. Strange, huh?

not weirder for some reason pieces of network correspondence suitable for the investigation)))))

Quote: Chit

the argument about the numbers on the rocket and its affiliation with Ukraine. I give a lot of links that convince the opponent that in the story with numbers there are more dark spots than light ones. No wonder the topic stalled so quickly even in our media.

this argument was to demonstrate the numbers of rockets with dill)))))))), not for nothing that it died out so quickly in the WORLD media

Quote: Chit

Girkin's militia was waiting for the Ukrainian transport An-26.

and where should the transporter fly? why beat him at heights?
they wrote so much crap, no specifics

[Siberian54]

You forgot - there is also an engine with the number of the missile belonging to the Ukrainian Armed Forces for the "beech", found near the downed MN17

[mso.716]

There is one caveat. Where did DNR Buk ..

[Charik]

and what are you sitting here, would have long been in the Netherlands in the Hague of Russia in this case, judged, would have earned millions with such evidence

[Amateur]

Russia should from the very beginning declare that it will not recognize any results of the investigation if they are not carried out by an international commission with the participation of all interested parties, and the investigation itself will be carried out in neutral territory.
The Dutch played too much. Malaysia has already been effectively suspended. Russia is not allowed to be investigated and the materials provided are not considered. And they did not give a damn about the "presumption of innocence" so beloved by the crap. The Russian Foreign Ministry will finish badly that Russia will be legally declared guilty and imposed with exorbitant fines and sanctions.

[Dmitry Potapov]

Bring in everyone! By the way, I looked into the sky three times that day! In short, we need to create our own investigation team with Malaysia, pull out all the ins and outs into the light of God, and beat the tinsel with good coverage in all media with counterfacts, and I don’t think that we should be afraid of something, if something was already presented by the "partners" would be without any "highley like".

[Simargl]

because these statements will first have to be examined by experts.

Psychiatrists, or what?

[knn54]

I remember an attempt by an international court to start an investigation into human rights violations by the US and UK military in Iraq - well, a lot of facts have accumulated. And in response, such DIRECT threats from the Anglo-Saxons that the case of the "peddlers of democracy" was instantly closed.

[bouncyhunter]

And here the situation is diametrically opposite: there is zero evidence of Russia's guilt, but we must blame!

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: bouncyhunter

evidence of Russia's guilt - zero, but must be blamed!

It seems to me that we need to understand for what this commission works: who and what task they set for this 'sharashka'. The answer, in principle, is on the surface: it’s just another stone in the information war against Russia, as always, people don’t give a damn, but the bourgeois public hails and then it’s easier to convince of Russian “aggression” and, accordingly, to squeeze the money. Nothing is new under the moon ...
Even American experts question their government’s statements about this. Comedians from 404 their opinion generally send by mail.

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

Comedians from 404

As if in the finale, these comedians, coupled with the puppeteers, did not burst into flaming tears. Everyone understands the absurdity of Russia’s mattress accusations of all trumped-up cases, but only a few dare to talk about it out loud, and even then they prefer not to hear them. And this, to put it mildly, is very bad ...

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: bouncyhunter

Everyone understands the absurdity of Russia's mattress accusations of all fabricated cases.

Man, this is on this side of the barricade. For many many reasons, we inherited critical attitude to information. And 'behind the fence' people stupidly hawks what they feed him. I have repeatedly talked with the bourgeoisie - they sincerely believe that they have never heard the opinion of the Russian Federation at all. By the way, it is their fighters who are distinguished by a cautious attitude to this commission.
But in modern 'civilized tolerant' and of course to the ears 'democratic' world, an opinion different from the 'party line'

Quote: bouncyhunter

prefer not to hear. And this, to put it mildly, is very bad ...

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

sincerely believe the opinion of the Russian Federation has never been heard

This is understandable: they trust their "zombie channels". But is it not all polls?

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: bouncyhunter

trust their "zombie channels". But is it not all polls?

Yes, by and large all do not care. And those who are interested polls believe in "party lines." As already said - the warriors take very critical

[valeryb]

Quote: bouncyhunter

Everyone understands

And who are these all?

[poquello]

Quote: bouncyhunter

And here the situation is diametrically opposite: there is zero evidence of Russia's guilt, but we must blame!

Malaysia said everything about this indictment, it is not a consequence - it is a big top with a poorly rehearsed number.

[bzbo]

It is time for Zakharova to comment on the behavior of the "zapadlyantsy" only with selective obscenities.

[Ural-4320]

Why shouldn’t Maria Zakharova switch to normal Russian, and not call a lie a lie, and not a veiled Americanism fake?

[Ham]

only one thing has been firmly proven: this very “commission” has no “evidence” of Russia's involvement!
That is why Shoigu's surname suddenly surfaced ... they would have written "Putin" but it would have been such fierce nonsense that the "commission" after that could boldly dissolve itself ...
just rzhunimagu - in plain text on the radio, not giving a damn about codes and encryption tables, about such important matters - in OPEN TEXT, CARL !!! - "This is Shoigu!" ... specially, probably for the "commission" ...

[Zaurbek]

Why is the GDP not mentioned?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Zaurbek

Why is the GDP not mentioned?

He has nothing to do with it. So, flew by ...

[Zaurbek]

Maybe he directed from the air ...

[rocket757]

So, in the report, which the official representative of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs Maria Zakharova called complete absurdity,

And what can I add? AND NOTHING!

[Crimean partisan 1974]

unclear. why do you have to justify expressing your concern, and so on expressing it, anu and if it’s crucial, then invite Jenny Psaki instead of Zakharchenko, she’s an advanced Marishka in this matter

[hohol95]

ON A DIRECT WINDING ROAD
On a straight winding road
A wheelless truck was driving.
We went to the wake
We went to bury Alive ...
Everyone escaped from the madhouse together
Digging through the attic through the basement.
And Dumb screamed thieves songs
And the Deaf wrote down the words.
Bezrukiy was sitting at the wheel of them,
And the Footless sting on the brakes.
The Blind showed them the way
A beeping endlessly.
Oh gentlemen from the Netherlands ...
You are energetic people - know good buns with "weed" you eat (a reference to the movie "Man on Call 2"!
And you behave according to the "students from the" male institution "shown in this film!

[Alexey-74]

And from the side of the Natsik, the surname Obama constantly sounded .....

[sokolov_vv]

I think this is completely different.
Holland......
They pulled the jamb and neigh with your comments!
And so it will be until hemp ends.

[yfast]

And why in 5 years? Or is it that the militias let slip yesterday?

[Kelwin]

Well, what is left for them, the "order" has failed, there are no facts, the owl does not pull on the globe, so they are carrying a blizzard. This commission itself may fall under the distribution for such a breakdown, and may be suspected of sabotaging the "investigation"))

[Andrey VOV]

Some apparently new mixture was delivered to Dutch experts

[tihonmarine]

The surname Shoigu is in radio intercepts from the territories of Donbass, not controlled by Kiev

. The surnames Stoltenberg and Trump also sound also sound from the territory of Donbas. And what will we do ???

[jaroff]

And all this is because they allowed to give a damn and rub the ICAO rules on accident investigation. In total, the cause of the AP is determined. The reason is determined - external impact. Next, the circumstances of getting this aircraft to the point where it was externally affected are determined. It also clarifies the compliance with the flight plan, route, negotiations, whether there were any other factors that brought it to this point at that time, for example, a thunderstorm and was forced to bypass the thunderstorm, changed the level. It is also specified here that the operator or other parties, including organizations responsible for airspace, did not violate ICAO's governing documents and / or their governing documents governing this flight.
After that, and only after that, the commission makes a conclusion about the cause of the AP and the factors contributing to this AP. It also indicates what actions or omissions, I emphasize, by aviation officials that led to the AP.
And only then the conclusion of the commission, if necessary, is attached to the criminal case, if it is instituted.
In my opinion, such a purely aviation technical investigation has not been carried out, I believe that intentionally, due to the fact that then 100% AviaRukh would be indicated as the organization responsible for security in its airspace, but intentionally, knowing about unsafe conditions in the airspace along the flight route, did not close the airspace.
Everything else is secondary. It doesn’t matter who in the war pulled the trigger or battle button. This is war.

[Baron wrangel]

Complete insanity. The "radio interception" was allegedly carried out in 2014. Even if it was, it was not a radio interception, but a banal data extraction from the channels of the mobile communication line, which was carried out by the SBU at that time without trial or investigation. Stupidly within the framework of the so-called. OTPZ (in the original language - operational and technical shots) on a number of counterintelligence cases that were conducted in the DKR under the classification of "terrorist activities". The words, most likely, were taken out of context by the investigation of the State Investigation Directorate of the SBU for implementation in the media. Those. pure PR stunt, nothing else. On the other hand, the negotiations between "Bes" and "Tser" still cannot be found. But that conversation is even "sweeter" than this lobuda. The scammers from the SBU will have to falsify it. After all, it is about a "bird that fell" and which someone knocked down. But who?

[Vkd dvk]

Is Kozhugetovich able to do this? Even together? The people of Russia participated here. I, too, as a representative of the people, are involved. You need to make me. Write - Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich.

[Piramidon]

The explanation from the investigation looks really more than absurd:

The surname Shoigu is in radio intercepts from the territories of Donbass, not controlled by Kiev.

It is necessary to use such surnames as Trump, Pompeo, Poroshenko more often during radio exchanges in the Donbass ...

[rotmistr60]

This is some kind of absurdity.

This has long been no longer absurd, but systematic direct information attacks on Russia. The image of a bloodthirsty enemy in the form of Russia has already been created among the western inhabitant and continues to be fixed on the subcortex. The next step is to create a reason for the military conflict through a major provocation with many victims.

[Berkut24]

Oh, something has changed at the front. At least, I see the change of tasks of the enemy. The case itself was molded in order to defame the country, impose sanctions, pinch financially, prove that Russia is still fighting with Ukraine, etc.
And now, apparently, a blow is being struck against Putin’s possible successors. They are trying to make them travel abroad, shook hands and monsters of a nuclear country.

[Ros 56]

Citizens of what you are surprised at are the heirs of storytellers like Hans Christian Andersen.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Baron Wrangel

Complete insanity. "Radio interception" was allegedly carried out in 2014

After all, there are already statements by Malaysian, German and Russian specialists in audio tracks: the presented tracks are trash. I liked the Russian more back in '15, he rivets tracks for Russian pop stars: once aurally listened and said that linden. Two hours was enough for the guy to on molecules expand the record - even in pauses between words, temporary tags differ.

Quote: bouncyhunter

they prefer not to hear. And this, to put it mildly, is very bad ...

[Wildcat]

I had to read that the coming March was cooking for us.
If we have only M. Zakharov in this matter, then our business is not very.
Nobody knows, the Russian Federation hired someone for this court case in Holland or are we waiting again that Zakharova will talk and decide everything by herself? Local lawyers should be more powerful, and an international company such as Price lists should look after us! If they lose, then not dry.
For money, if you look at Iranian-American history or Tu154 in 2001, then not much will come of it. 4 those under investigation, of course, do not go anywhere ...

[Antares]

Quote: Wildcat

Local lawyers should be more powerful, and an international company such as Price lists should look after us

maybe again the London company of lawyers (the one that Gazprom serves in the arbitration court) will be.
There are very expensive lawyers.
They quite often won the courts for Russian companies.
(although against New York in Stockholm they lost)

[Wildcat]

It is necessary to take 2 companies so that they check each other and deal with the business, rather than scribbling reports on hundreds of pages to the client.
4 defendants also need to find normal lawyers: 1- so that they do not feel abandoned; 2 - so that at least someone works to crush the charges (and it doesn’t hurt to look at the evidence, at least they will teach someone to use the phone).
They will drive officials out of business, for they will start again. Already went to the maritime arbitration, that's enough.
In general, it is necessary to prepare for the trial, and not rely on Zakharova and what will "carry".
In general, if 4 defendants stop, this is not excellent, but not entirely bad. Shooters they sure .... will write compensation ....

[Antares]

Quote: Wildcat

2 companies must be taken

Yes expensive! Gazprom Londoners take sickly grandmother. They decide matters for billions. Yes, and here the question of prestige.
The main feature of the Russian Federation with all this judicial practice in Europe is "what if it will resolve itself", which coexists with another theory (it is better to be silent, otherwise suddenly everyone will find out)
well, of course - "consent to the trial, automatically participation in all cases"
I don’t know what will be done in Russia this time (everything can always change)
usually all citizens consider one thing (nafik is needed, hi go to the forest) and the elite is another. The interests of the state are unfamiliar to both. Usually "own shirt is closer to the body" decides.
A narrow circle of state interests is usually not heard.

[Wildcat]

IMHO
It is not a fact that specialists in gas contracts will be useful in a criminal court. It is necessary to take local people who go to this court every single day and know what the judge wants and what the prosecutor reacts to. And we need a big company to look after them, otherwise "we will still lose, why break out." Let every euro work out.
4 defendants must also be provided with protection, otherwise they will think that "we were thrown" and then they will take turns giving interviews and writing books.
March 2020 in Holland is a rare case when both the state and the elite and the people have one interest - to evade accusations. 4 defendants who "in the situation ... confused ... had no intent ... air defense was created to protect against massive attacks ...." - not the worst option (the rest - to shower money / ranks / housing in Kursk / vacation only in Crimea and explain that any woman on Vkontakte can be a Dutch man, you have to watch out! And don’t pee (squeak) with just anyone! in Holland).
And it is possible in general for "lack of proof of participation" to leave without a sentence. But this requires active work! And not wait for the thunder to strike. "Consent to the court" can not be given, and "participation" can not shine, but the lawyers of 4 defendants can sit with their heads in the evidence, by the way: "sorry, your honor, but neither Khmury, nor Mole, nor Strelkov, nor Gyurza didn’t even sit in beech, even according to the prosecutor - so what are we doing here? It's not a crime to be on the phone. Who pressed the button and with what intent when it will be clear - then call to court ... And now stop the case for lack of involvement ... ".

[aszzz888]

5,5 years after the events over the Donbass, the Dutch investigators suddenly announced that almost all the heads of the Russian power departments could be involved in the case.

The nonsense of this unfinished will never end.

[surovts.valery]

Quote: Chit

Do you know how I am different from cheers-patriots? Hooray-patriot does not recognize any facts. No evidence. For him, the MO said is dogma. It is sacred. And not questioned. Said MO: The Boeing was shot down by Su-24 cannons (25?) - that's it! No doubt. Then, however, the same MO asserts the exact opposite: the Boeing was hit by a Buk missile! All! Dot! Do not argue! Hooray-patriot does not argue.

You do not hurray patriots from Brovary (with pid Kuiva) know better. Please provide links to "MO claims", the RF Ministry of Defense itself, its official representatives voice the version of the Boeing shot down. If you can imagine, I will send you a box of cognac in Brovary.

[Vladimir61]

Maria Zakharova noted that she was not going to give a political assessment of the statements, because these statements would first have to be examined by experts.

Yah? Maria Vladimirovna, discard diplomacy, tell me bluntly: - "These statements will first have to be studied by psychiatrists."

[thinker]

Quote: IL-18

Check out today's news ru.com. There a little JIT was referenced ...

"Some JIT" - cool! This info noise has legs growing from here -

MH17 Joint Investigation Team JIT: appeal to witnesses - november 2019

To a predetermined answer you need to adjust the solution to the problem -

SAM "BUK" belonged to the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade, a unit of the Russian armed forces in Kursk, Russian Federation.
JIT is looking for witnesses who can share information about those individuals who controlled the leadership of the DPR in Donetsk and ordered the deployment of the BUK air defense system ...
We are making great efforts to establish the truth. about the crash of an airliner flight MH17. JIT investigation team is looking for people who have any information

Looks like "some JIT" is doing badly. https://www.politie.nl/

[Ivan Osipov]

Inferior Dutch, forgot Lenin, Stalin and Putin ...

[iouris]

Destruction of passenger aircraft by US intelligence always precedes political operations that have global political consequences. And this story will still have consequences. Some large state will disappear or plunge into chaos. At least they plan it that way.

[Charik]

As they are the Poles president with the top slammed near Smolensk-clearly

[Charik]

how did you react, "these days" began?

[Dmitry Donskoy]

Quote: SERGOL

Next supreme

Yes, hardly. Age is not the same

[Gas smoke protector]

At our place, Zakharova reacts to everything without exception. And with lightning speed. Only here is no use.

[Alexey Lobov]

Quote: jonht

In this case, they try to hang on Us something that even cannot be pulled by the ears, or easier ... They try to pull the Owl on the globe, greasing it with different fakes whose reliability cannot be confirmed.

Not for us, but for specific obtuse kiddies. The investigation called their names. Are you and me?