Zakharova reacted to the Dutch investigation adding the name Shoigu to the MH17 case

Zakharova reacted to the Dutch investigation adding the name Shoigu to the MH17 case

The so-called international investigation team, "working" in the Netherlands in the case of the downed Boeing, decided to move to a "new level."


Obviously not satisfying the customers of this pseudo-investigation with statements about “Russia's involvement”, Dutch investigators, 5,5 years after the events over Donbass, suddenly announced that almost all the heads of Russian law enforcement agencies could be involved in the case.

So, in the report, which the official representative of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs Maria Zakharova called complete absurdity, the Dutch investigation decided to include such names as Sergey Shoigu (Minister of Defense of Russia) and Alexander Bortnikov (director of the FSB). There, according to The Bell resource, the assistant to the President of the Russian Federation, Vladislav Surkov, was added.

The explanation from the investigation looks really more than absurd:

The surname Shoigu is in radio intercepts from the territories of Donbass, not controlled by Kiev.

Allegedly, a militia said that "people with powers from Shoigu" arrive in the Donbass.

Does this mean that any mention of the names of Shoigu, Surkov and Bortnikov automatically makes these people involved in the case, according to the Dutch investigation team?

And how many times did the Ukrainian military in the Donbass use the names of the heads of Ukrainian law enforcement agencies in the negotiations?

Maria Zakharova:

This is some kind of absurdity. We live in a world that is struggling with fake, and we proceed from the fact that fakes have been published on this topic many times, and then after a month or two they get a proper expert evaluation.

Maria Zakharova noted that she was not going to give a political assessment of the statements, because these statements would first have to be examined by experts.
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  1. SERGOL 15 November 2019 07: 12 New
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    Next supreme
    1. Thrall 15 November 2019 07: 24 New
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      I can’t understand one thing. The information war from the Western world towards Russia has been waged for more than one century. Now, of course, the era of the Internet and all that, but have all the propaganda and provocative nonsense designed for the western man in the first place, the newspapers of the Russian Empire brought to their forefront.
      Similar news is on the last page in the small column "Psychiatry News" smile
      1. 1976AG 15 November 2019 07: 41 New
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        If we take the old days, then "the earth was full of rumors." And the rulers threw info about the alleged intentions of another ruler to attack him. In this way, relatives were set up against each other in Russia, which often became the cause of civil strife. The storage media were different, but the methods were the same.
        1. Spartanez300 15 November 2019 08: 13 New
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          There is simply nothing to investigate this "consequence" because they have reached a dead end and do not see a way out of it, and they do not want to accept Russia's help because they may come up with facts that they are not fit for. And since they have been wiping their pants there for five years and are used to getting free money, they come up with new crazy versions.
          1. Evil echo 15 November 2019 09: 31 New
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            Or acquired more fun shmal
            1. orionvitt 16 November 2019 14: 00 New
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              The surname Shoigu is in radio intercepts from the territories of Donbass
              "Gittler, Gittler, I'm the Beetles." What do they smoke there at all .. I understand that such an absurdity, in nature, cannot be. But he is. Maybe there are recipes, how to treat it? There is such a method, according to the prescription of I.V. Stalin.
          2. Lbt21 15 November 2019 11: 46 New
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            It’s our fault, we already “helped” the investigation (both the attack aircraft at an altitude of 10000 km, and the pilot Voloshyn, and the dispatcher, and this is not a beech, but if the beech is not ours) what do you now want gentlemen? Once there is no faith to the liar!
            1. Lbt21 15 November 2019 11: 49 New
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              Yes, and the suspect does not take part in the investigation of his crime, but sits quietly at the base!
              1. svp67 15 November 2019 14: 57 New
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                Quote: Lbt21
                Yes, and the suspect does not take part in the investigation of his crime, but sits quietly at the base!

                Yes? And then, then, Ukraine is climbing into the investigation? In the normal conduct of the investigation, it first of all became suspect. Too many questions to her. Which either do not ask, or receive formal answers to them and calm down ...
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. svp67 15 November 2019 16: 54 New
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                    Quote: Lbt21
                    And where is Ukraine? The investigation seems to have questions for Russia !!!!

                    But it’s surprising that, with the permission of the “investigation,” this one has no questions for the country that allowed such a tragedy on its territory and, most importantly, the OPPORTUNITY to commit it, deploying the same Buk complexes in that area
                  2. poquello 15 November 2019 20: 23 New
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                    Quote: Lbt21
                    And where is Ukraine? The investigation seems to have questions for Russia !!!!

                    this is not a consequence, this is a group of custom jesters
            2. Nikolai Grek 16 November 2019 02: 57 New
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              Quote: Lbt21
              It’s our fault, we already “helped” the investigation (both the attack aircraft at an altitude of 10000 km, and the pilot Voloshyn, and the dispatcher, and this is not a beech, but if the beech is not ours) what do you now want gentlemen? Once there is no faith to the liar!

              apparently, from your help, the investigators moved their heads to the end !!! wassat wassat wassat at the same time, Voloshin threw his hooves in a strange way, nobody even found the dispatcher alive, and the Raguli beeches, standing right in the area of ​​the downed Boeing, cannot be seen only by degenerates !!! wink wassat wassat good good good
          3. Chaldon48 15 November 2019 11: 51 New
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            The reasons for this chatter called "Investigation", the first is the US order to denigrate Russia and its top officials in no way, the second is the complete impunity that these Dutch talkers feel.
          4. Alexander Petrov1 15 November 2019 12: 39 New
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            Well, to whom it was profitable for anyone to bring down the Boeing, but not only Russia but only Ukraine to be a victim of the type of aggression, and the whole smart world understands this ... laughing
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. poquello 15 November 2019 20: 25 New
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                Quote: Lbt21
                Russia one question, where did Buk ???

                and to dill three, from where, or rather, what did three beech trees do?
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. poquello 15 November 2019 20: 59 New
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                    Quote: Lbt21
                    Dill on their territory, they may have 33 beech! (They don’t ask from Russia how many beeches we have?) The question is what did the beech do In the hands of the LNRDNR?

                    But was he there at all? and 33 beeches from their territory by no means shoot, funny
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Lbt21 15 November 2019 20: 54 New
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                  So now we are in the role of Libya and GDP In the role of Gaddafi!
                  1. poquello 15 November 2019 21: 00 New
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                    Quote: Lbt21
                    So now we are in the role of Libya and GDP In the role of Gaddafi!

                    in Trolls, you are in Trolls, and we are in Russia
                    1. Lbt21 15 November 2019 23: 00 New
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                      I don’t know where you are, but I am in Russia!
      2. IL-18 15 November 2019 07: 53 New
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        Quote: Thrall
        Information war from the western world regarding Russia

        Check out today's news ru.com. There, they referred slightly to a certain JIT, and then the text of the negotiations, drawn up with banknotes on the mat, and the phone numbers, and the GRU were carefully stuck, for postponing to the readers' subcortex.
        Its enough.
        1. poquello 15 November 2019 20: 34 New
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          Quote: IL-18
          drawn up with bills on a mat,

          it’s not with banknotes on the mat, those are continuous gluing, those are slicing, those are sound collage, Zakharova has no obscene words, so the rebuttal looks diplomatically
      3. 210ox 15 November 2019 07: 57 New
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        Without women, life was boring, without fools, unbearable.
        1. Greg Miller 15 November 2019 09: 03 New
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          Quote: 210ox
          Without women, life was boring, without fools, unbearable.

          Dmitry welcome hi There is no sense in discussing this fake "investigation". In all this, the reaction of the Russian authorities seems to me the most interesting. Toothless “resolute protests declared” and “expressed concerns” - is that really all that the Russian Foreign Ministry is capable of ???
          1. Golovan Jack 15 November 2019 09: 09 New
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            Quote: Greg Miller
            Toothless "strong protests" and "expressed concerns"

            Quote: 210ox
            Life was boring without women, unbearable without fools

            In this case, I agree. Although in this case - not an alternatively smart, but a typical Internet troll.

            But without them, too - boring yes
          2. Sergey1987 15 November 2019 14: 02 New
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            Quote: Greg Miller
            Toothless “resolute protests declared” and “expressed concerns” - is that really all that the Russian Foreign Ministry is capable of ???

            And do not share your thoughts with the critic, what should the Foreign Ministry do in your understanding?
          3. Alexander I 15 November 2019 15: 12 New
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            What does a nuclear bomb threaten?
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. Piramidon 15 November 2019 10: 42 New
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        Quote: Thrall
        Similar news is on the last page in the small column "Psychiatry News"

        Maybe Zakharova meant experts in this field?
        Maria Zakharova noted that she is not going to give a political assessment of the statements, because these statements will first have to be studied to experts
      6. 1536 16 November 2019 18: 19 New
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        Dear, you, apparently, did not listen to the Voice of America radio station that year in 1978. Do you know how cool it was? Through the noise and crackle of the air on the WEF radio (there was such a brand of Soviet radio receivers, it seems, was produced in Latvia), Soviet people eagerly listened to the announcers from distant Washington, or rather, the CIA Athenian center in Greece, who read with light accent "latest news" about the in the Soviet Union, ugliness, oppression, human rights violations, dissidents, etc. "truth" about the USSR and about these people themselves. And then there was no one to refute this nonsense, the Central Committee of the CPSU also naively believed that Soviet people simply could not find anything on the 31 shortwave meter, and the Mayak radio station was much more interesting. Only then, suddenly, for no reason, the 1991 year came when the USSR did not become overnight, a great country that was not afraid of slander, but did not oppose it, did not notice it, and the Soviet people did not.
        For good, you need to call the Dutch ambassador in Moscow and throw in his face a note of protest over the so-called investigation of the disaster in the Donbass, the lies of the Dutch media and the government of this country of the red light district.
    2. GKS 2111 15 November 2019 07: 25 New
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      "Obviously not satisfying the customers of this pseudo-investigations with statements about "involvement in Russia", Dutch investigators 5,5 years after the events over the Donbass suddenly announced that almost all the heads of Russian law enforcement agencies could be involved in the case."
      Well, obviously the case is sewn with white thread ... wink
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Alien From 15 November 2019 11: 16 New
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          The louder the bark, the better for us, they have no evidence. A mongrel barks at an elephant ........
      2. svp67 15 November 2019 14: 59 New
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        Quote: GKS 2111
        Well, obviously the case is sewn with white thread ...

        Sorry, but all these "radio conversations" in a normal court cannot be taken as evidence. There are too many rules for their provision in this form, so all these “stuffing”, this is just psychological pressure on everything
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  2. jonht 15 November 2019 07: 15 New
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    Degenerates, immediately include the whole country in the list and do not worry ....
    In fact, the worms ate the brain from the commission or the dementia virus was picked up, M yes ...
    1. Hagalaz 15 November 2019 07: 36 New
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      More than normal and smart people in the commission. And even very thought out. Fulfill the order, in the methods are not shy. Well this is because you need to have the ability, so concoct a thing.
      Well, our country has long been on their lists. hi
      1. Flooding 15 November 2019 07: 47 New
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        Moreover, tossing and pouring into the brew is the only way to continue the process.
        Otherwise, you have to put it on the table. Obviously, the hostess is not ready yet.
        Although, I’m sure, get to this - they will frown, but they will dredge everything so as not to offend the stern lady.
    2. Santa Fe 16 November 2019 14: 34 New
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      Degenerates, immediately include the whole country in the list and do not worry ....

      We DO NOT owe anything to anyone and we (the Russians) have nothing to do with it. Joint you can take the blame, but you don’t need to hand over others

      Let the GDP, Shoigu and co. They won’t want it!

      How to take the loot over the hill - so private property. And how to resolve your troubles - STAND UP A HUGE COUNTRY ...
      1. jonht 16 November 2019 15: 26 New
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        And where does the fault? You were called a Thief in the store, and you immediately shed a tear? Or all the same, they managed to call the police and investigate this "misunderstanding" .... In this case, they try to hang on Us that they can’t even pull it by the ears, or easier .... They try to pull the Owl on the globe, lubricating it with different fakes whose reliability cannot be confirmed. hi
  3. maidan.izrailovich 15 November 2019 07: 18 New
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    Holland is a small but smelly six of the Anglo-Saxons.
    The only and effective way under the circumstances is to pull the overpowered mongrel by causing economic damage. Dutch companies have business all over the world. It is necessary by any means to interfere with this business. The history of capitalism has accumulated a ton of ways to harm the business of the "partner." And since Russia is a capitalist country, then it's time to take advantage of this.
    1. voyaka uh 15 November 2019 11: 34 New
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      It's not easy...
      Dutch GDP 0.9 trillion dollars,
      Russia's GDP is 1.6 trillion dollars.
      1. maidan.izrailovich 15 November 2019 11: 56 New
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        It's not easy...
        Dutch GDP 0.9 trillion dollars,
        Russia's GDP is 1.6 trillion dollars.

        The whole trouble is that in Russia the army and navy continue to be used as under socialism. Only to protect the Fatherland. That's right. This is the main purpose of the aircraft. But now we are a capitalist country. And to this main function can and should be added the function of protecting the economic interests of the country and individual Russian companies. What does the whole world.
        Will we measure the sun and their capabilities with Holland?
        Anticipating your possible response. We are not talking about direct military influence on the Netherlands.
        The armed forces should become a full-fledged continuation of foreign policy and trade. In the capitalist world, this is the norm.
      2. Charik 16 November 2019 13: 50 New
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        legalized drugs and prostitution, it's time to send a “couple” on a business trip (with a novice can and a polonium backpack).
  4. Mountain shooter 15 November 2019 07: 18 New
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    Sharp what ... That will take Shoigu, and will appear. For interrogation. laughing fantastic nonsense! Marijuana is allowed in the Netherlands, it seems ... Then it’s clear where the fantasies come from ...
    1. Deathmaker 15 November 2019 07: 57 New
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      He will take and appear. On the tank. And through the barrel he asks - "Have questions?"
    2. Charik 16 November 2019 13: 54 New
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      legalize full even heroin if I'm not mistaken + prostitution + LGBT
  5. SOF
    SOF 15 November 2019 07: 19 New
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    Maria Zakharova noted that she was not going to give a political assessment of the statements, because these statements experts will have to study first

    ...... as I understand it, what do specialists in psychiatry mean? ....
    .... if so, then why not say it without allegory .... offer Holland high-quality military medical care ..... from Shoigu ....
  6. askort154 15 November 2019 07: 24 New
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    All CIA developments against Russia, with surprising consistency, are being turned by the Western media into long-playing, hackneyed records.
    Despite their quality, they are regularly pulled out of the chest and twisted in a new way.
  7. Proton 15 November 2019 07: 38 New
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    Kuzhegetych right now probably thought, “But not to send a couple more swans to train”laughing
  8. anjey 15 November 2019 07: 39 New
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    It is necessary to answer adequately, rename the whole "Dutch" cheese in our market, to "Russian" and consider the word "Dutch" (Dutch) to be considered a synonym for swearing (a joke) laughingBut seriously, the fools in power in Europe, it seems for a long time. request
  9. Zeev Zeev 15 November 2019 07: 45 New
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    This is some kind of absurdity. We live in a world that is struggling with fake, and we proceed from the fact that fakes have been published on this topic many times, and then after a month or two they get a proper expert evaluation.

    Spanish dispatcher (there is his testimony), Su-25 (there is evidence of eyewitnesses who saw the plane at an altitude of 10 km), Su-27 (there is a “satellite photo”), Israeli Derby missiles (do not care for evidence, the main thing is that the Israeli ), once again the Su-25 (there is a “testimony of the technician” to the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation), the Ukrainian Buk from Zaroshchensky (do not care that the settlement was under the control of the DPR, the main thing is that there are Almaz-Antey tests and a video from cabins with officers of the SBU "). I have not forgotten anything?
    Damn, if on the second day of the DPR they would say that they shot down a Boeing by mistake, because a Ukrainian transport plane flew below it, and they would appoint duty switchmen (an old farmer who had lost his daughter under the Bandera bombs, a third-year student radio engineer Donetsk University (always with a bride), even a volunteer from Russia who came to "fight the Nazis") and would promise to pay compensation as soon as the "young republic gets on its feet", there would be no investigations and the names of Shoigu would not sound now, Bortnikov and everyone else.
    1. Moskovit 15 November 2019 08: 10 New
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      Katz offers to surrender (s).
      1. Zeev Zeev 15 November 2019 08: 14 New
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        Katz don’t give up. And Russia could have avoided reputational and financial losses. But the train left.
        1. Moskovit 15 November 2019 09: 07 New
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          First, to admit, this must be done. You were there, you know the truth, right? Therefore, they boldly appointed the militia as the culprits.
          Secondly, the position of the West cannot be mitigated by any surrender. It will bring nothing but shame. Libya is an example to you. Yanukovych will confirm.
          1. Zeev Zeev 15 November 2019 14: 33 New
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            Well, if you don’t admit, there will be sanctions. And who shot down - and so it is clear. Unlike the broad Ukrainians, who accuse the Russian Federation of wanting to shoot down a Russian airliner in order to get an open invasion of Ukraine, I think that the calculation (it doesn’t matter in this case, the Russian calculation or the local ones) was sure that shoots at the Ukrainian transporter. But crooked hands led to a terrible tragedy, which could not be washed away by hundreds of fakes. It would be better to really appoint switchmen from the DPR (only immediately), but it turned out that your country fell under the distribution.
            1. Albert1988 15 November 2019 20: 33 New
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              Quote: Zeev Zeev
              And who shot down - and so it is clear.

              That's right - it’s so clear that the Ukrainian military shot down on which this Boeing was launched from Europe itself — at first in Germany we corrected the course to the south, then in Poland even to the south, then in Ukraine we again corrected its course so that the aircraft passed at the very epicenter of hostilities ... And then the media screamed about the downing of the Boeing by "Russian troops" a few hours after its fall ...
              And therefore, it is necessary to cover Ukraine - 5 years it has been smeared, they cannot cover it in any way. And believe me - another five years they will otmazyvat, trying to shift to Russia ...
              1. Zeev Zeev 16 November 2019 09: 48 New
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                One and a half hundred planes flew through this center of war on the same day, both before and after. Including Russian. Above the same Thorez, Snowy, Head, etc.
                1. Albert1988 16 November 2019 22: 34 New
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                  Quote: Zeev Zeev
                  One and a half hundred planes flew through this center of war on the same day, both before and after. Including Russian. Above the same Thorez, Snowy, Head, etc.

                  Oh, yes, right hundreds))) And directly all of them flew clearly over the place of deployment of Ukrainian air defense units, which for some reason shortly before this pulled into the area, although the Separ had no aircraft ... And most importantly, they all the course was carefully adjusted so that just over the Ukrainian air defense passed ...
                  And most importantly - AFTER there they stopped flying very fast ...
            2. poquello 15 November 2019 20: 46 New
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              Quote: Zeev Zeev
              , I think that the crew (and in this case it doesn’t matter whether the Russian crew or the locals were there) was sure that it was shooting at a Ukrainian transporter.

              it’s harmful for you to think, smoke the air defense organization in ONE beech, and dill transporters who shot down, shot down on landing
    2. Chit 15 November 2019 12: 03 New
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      Yes ... Maybe that would be the best option.
      What happened? It turned out according to Vereshchagin - it’s a shame for the State.
      For me, misunderstandings began on the night immediately after the tragedy. Putin’s appeal to the United States looked very unusual, as did Putin himself. Why at night? Reported? So we have everything under control. Satellite intelligence and all that jazz. It’s clear that the Ukrainians shot down. Why such urgency with the appeal? And this confusion, which could not be hidden ... I will not hide, I have crept in some doubts.
      Well, then ... Next, the circus began. You have listed far from all the versions that were put forward at different times by the RF Ministry of Defense, Almaz-Antey, journalists, eyewitnesses and others. Moreover, there were versions mutually exclusive of each other in the best case, at worst - contradicting each other. The versions are ridiculous, anecdotal, absurd. How can you seriously take the late Zakharchenko’s words that he saw with an unaided eye at an altitude of 10000 m a plane with Ukrainian identification marks?
      How can you seriously take versions of MO (I’ve already lost count, how many were there) if they end up being fakes, like the fake Twitter account of manager Carlos? I mean the statements of Kartopolov and Parshin.
      How can one take into account the nonsense that Mr. Leontyev carried about some Ukrainian kilometer-long aircraft?
      After all, all this does not cause laughter. It causes bitterness. And indicates a clear confusion and inability to answer convincing facts. And all this is crossed out by one statement by Girkin (at that time still a national hero of Russia) about a downed bird that is lying somewhere there. Acc, however, quickly wiped away, but manuscripts do not burn ...
      Doesn't the RF Ministry of Defense know that the whole world also uses photoshop, Yandex maps and Google? Why is it so stupid to substitute? Why disgrace? After all, any fake is exposed instantly. Well, for internal use it will. What to say to the West?
      After all, you need to understand: in Germany, Great Britain, Australia or the USA no one reads VO with his comments. They read the findings of the international commission of inquiry. And her preliminary findings are such that they directly indicate involvement in the tragedy of 53 SAMs deployed in Kursk, with specific surnames. But there will also be final conclusions! There will be a court verdict. We won’t get anywhere from this. And there may come up other names. For it is clear to the child that no brigade commander will move a unit of equipment across the state border without an order from above.
      I often argue with opponents. They usually tell me: the facts to accuse the LPR / DPR or Russia are not enough. I agree. But then I ask - are there enough facts to accuse Ukraine? Bring them. In addition to unclosed airspace, for this has already been dealt with. The opponent usually hesitates, because all the loud fakes are just ridiculous. Usually rests on Zaroschenskoe. I give a lot of links refuting this version. Opponent speaks of some data on radar control transmitted by Russia to the Netherlands. I agree. But I clarify that for some reason they do not comply with the international standard and it is impossible to use them. Strange, huh?
      Then follows a killer argument about the numbers on the rocket and its belonging to Ukraine. I give a lot of links that convince the opponent that in the story with numbers there are more dark spots than light ones. No wonder the topic stalled so quickly even in our media.
      And also? The opponent crumbles ... Then he says: Yes, everyone knows that the Ukrainians shot down! The argument, of course, is strong. But not convincing.
      But the international commission has an argument against Russia with a wagon and a small cart. And you can talk about the order as much as you like, but you won’t be able to dismiss them.
      And what to do now is unknown. After so much time bustling, turn on the back will not work.
      But if, in due time, they had correctly orientated themselves, today the prestige of Russia would be at its best. And there would be no sanctions. You just had to admit the obvious. To agree that the Boeing was shot down by mistake, that Girkin’s militias were waiting for the Ukrainian transport An-26. They would find scapegoats, the international position of Russia would not suffer.
      What to do now?
      But the story is still far away ...
      1. aszzz888 15 November 2019 12: 18 New
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        Chit Today, 12: 03 NEW ... You just had to admit the obvious. Agree that the Boeing was shot down by mistake ...
        And where does this come from ?! angry Although it is clear where the wind blows. angry
      2. Flooding 15 November 2019 12: 26 New
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        The sanctions forced a sober look at the state of things in the country and in the world.
        Russia cannot afford to be in a relaxed state. Never. This is an axiom.
        Take the blame for killing many people in exchange for gingerbread cookies?
        Are you kidding or raving?
        1. Chit 15 November 2019 12: 50 New
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          It is not a matter of sanctions, although this is essential.
          The point is the international prestige of the Russian Federation.
          I ask again: what will happen after the final conclusion of the commission of inquiry?
          If Russia is directly blamed? Does anyone think about this?
          We can argue on the resource here even to the point of turning blue.
          Who cares? Who reads this, except for a very limited circle of people?
          The world will take information from the conclusions of the commission and the court. Does anyone doubt what the verdict will be?
          You can come up with a bunch of more absurd versions of the tragedy. But what does that change? For Russia? For her reputation, credibility?
          Do you know how I am different from cheers-patriots? Hooray-patriot does not recognize any facts. No evidence. For him, the MO said is dogma. It is sacred. And not questioned. Said MO: The Boeing was shot down by Su-24 cannons (25?) - that's it! No doubt. Then, however, the same MO asserts the exact opposite: the Boeing was hit by a Buk missile! All! Dot! Do not argue! Hooray-patriot does not argue.
          And I have questions ...
          If Ukraine was shot down, why not give more solid evidence? Without Photoshop? No overlays and collages?
          If there is a suspicion of Girkin's militia, why are these throwing and throwing? Fail - stick to one version!
          Why come up with new ones? Piling one on top of the other? MO does not understand how it looks from the outside? What does it cause only laughter?
          Unlike the cheer patriots, a true patriot of Russia is always concerned about how his country looks in the eyes of the world community. He should not be ashamed of his country. He must be proud that the prestige of his homeland is on top. With the authority of the country, its reputation should always be above suspicion.
          1. Flooding 15 November 2019 13: 20 New
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            1. You yourself deigned to mention sanctions. Now it's not about them. A sober look at the “partners” is very important. And not only among the so-called elite, but also among the country's population. Therefore, sanctions are very important for the West, as an instrument, and for Russia, as a bitter sobering pill.
            2. International prestige. Interestingly, has the state’s prestige ever been determined to a greater extent by anything other than its power and self-esteem? The economy? Not in the first place, if we are talking about big politics. But even if we talked about her, darling, isn’t GDP growth related to management efficiency in the first place?
            3. Russia is already being blamed. By "directly" you probably mean the first persons of the partner states? No? Most likely not, since it would be foolish to directly correlate the temperature of relations with the conclusions of the biased commission. Then, perhaps, you meant that such a guilty verdict would give another tool of pressure to the West? Well then, was it worth the wait five years to get it? Something does not grow together, I think, they have an indictment base, because in the absence of such a desire it is difficult to suspect the West.
            4. Unlike cheers, any patriot does not care about how his country looks for ... Stop, for whom? For the world community? Sooo vague. For the countries of which continent, which camp? In the eyes of most affected Malaysia? They have just the least complaints against Russia.
            1. Chit 16 November 2019 00: 31 New
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              The country's international prestige is not least dependent on whether the country is accused of committing a state crime. And it is precisely in this today that the international investigative group directly accuses the Russian Federation of specifying specific names.
              It’s not worth worrying about five years; there have been cases in the history of aviation when disasters were investigated even more. For example, Russia, for the ninth year, does not give up the wreckage of Lech Kaczynski’s plane. And nobody in Russia cares, in the order of things.
              The accusatory base is a loop of rope, and it is being tightened ever tighter. And there is a likelihood that in 2020 in this case the end will be put.
              That’s why I ask: is there any sense in going to failure to the end? If they still press against the wall? And what will we look like then? After all, even the patriots understand that there are too many facts against us. And these facts are killer.
              What the country looks like ... Frankly, sometimes it’s not very. Okay, from the very beginning we went into denial. Okay, Ukraine was blamed for everything. But why not go all the way? If Ukraine shot down, why not seek an investigation?
              Instead, in 2015, Russia blocked the UN Security Council resolution on an international tribunal for the Boeing MH17. How to understand? After all, Ukraine brought down! So let the international tribunal prove it!
              Or Ukraine did not bring down?
              Did someone else hit?
              Then much becomes clear ...
              1. Flooding 16 November 2019 01: 57 New
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                Chit
                If you distort, then the discussion of any topics will lose its meaning.
                Between "the ninth year continues to be investigated" and "the ninth year the wreckage of the aircraft is not given out" is a huge chasm. These are absolutely not equivalent things.
                Quote: Chit
                After all, even the patriots understand that there are too many facts against us. And these facts are killer.

                I do not understand this. What does it mean? That I'm not a jingoistic patriot? Or what do you and I put in the concept of fact different meanings?
                You judge the slaughter of the evidence base, based on what?
                Quote: Chit
                If Ukraine shot down, why not seek an investigation?
                Instead, in 2015, Russia blocks the UN Security Council resolution on an international tribunal for the Boeing MH17

                Do you need a tribunal to investigate? That's for sure?
                Or was the tribunal a guillotine, under which it was urged to set the neck?
                1. poquello 17 November 2019 00: 37 New
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                  Quote: Flood
                  You judge the slaughter of the evidence base, based on what?

                  from his chatter, he judges, as usual, “if you say 10 times, the precipitate will remain”, there can’t be any clear evidence there, because the matter is blown, and “four specific persons” must, after the expected decision of this Dutch man, file lawsuits in all courts starting from locals by willful reservation using the official position, so that investigators of the "international" organization had at least problems in Russia
                  1. Flooding 17 November 2019 00: 50 New
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                    I would not want to be categorical in my judgments, but the citizen acts professionally. Feel the preparation.
                    1. poquello 17 November 2019 01: 05 New
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                      Quote: Flood
                      I would not want to be categorical in my judgments, but the citizen acts professionally. Feel the preparation.

                      it’s not at all necessary, the so-called “free media” is crammed with all this garbage, including the completely free (IMHO from conscience) dill, and in fact they sacredly believe contrary to logic
          2. Sewer krainiy 15 November 2019 15: 04 New
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            But do not you think that Russia is hiding the joker in the sleeve, and the Dutch are aware of this. Therefore, this effect stretches to infinity. Maybe in court, if it takes place, we learn something new. And so basically the speculation of the Internet, the media.

            If Ukraine was shot down, why not give more solid evidence? Without Photoshop? No overlays and collages?
      3. poquello 15 November 2019 21: 32 New
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        Quote: Chit

        And all this is crossed out by one statement by Girkin (at that time still a national hero of Russia) about a downed bird that is lying somewhere there. Acc, however, quickly wiped away, but manuscripts do not burn ...

        all that is higher than demagogy and crap, and the remarks of Girkin or anyone else can be explained in a trite way - they heard, saw, rejoiced, in no way did these remarks confirm participation.
        Quote: Chit
        Yes ... with specific names.

        oh yes, there are more "novice" specific gas production places, it’s concrete it causes trust)))))
        Quote: Chit
        For it is clear to the child that no brigade commander will move a unit of equipment across the state border without an order from above.

        it is usually clear to the child that no matter what technique crosses the border (although this is also a question), there is no reason for her to shoot
        Quote: Chit
        Opponent speaks of some data on radar control transmitted by Russia to the Netherlands. I agree. But I clarify that for some reason they do not comply with the international standard and it is impossible to use them. Strange, huh?

        not weirder for some reason pieces of network correspondence suitable for the investigation)))))
        Quote: Chit
        the argument about the numbers on the rocket and its affiliation with Ukraine. I give a lot of links that convince the opponent that in the story with numbers there are more dark spots than light ones. No wonder the topic stalled so quickly even in our media.

        this argument was to demonstrate the numbers of rockets with dill)))))))), not for nothing that it died out so quickly in the WORLD media
        Quote: Chit
        Girkin's militia was waiting for the Ukrainian transport An-26.

        and where should the transporter fly? why beat him at heights?
        they wrote so much crap, no specifics
      4. The comment was deleted.
    3. Siberian54 16 November 2019 08: 23 New
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      You forgot - there is still an engine with the number of the APU-owned missile for the beech found near the downed MN17
    4. mso.716 16 November 2019 10: 59 New
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      There is one caveat. Where did DNR Buk ..
    5. Charik 16 November 2019 13: 59 New
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      and what are you sitting here, would have long been in the Netherlands in the Hague of Russia in this case, judged, would have earned millions with such evidence
  10. Amateur 15 November 2019 07: 46 New
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    Russia should from the very beginning declare that it will not recognize any results of the investigation if they are not carried out by an international commission with the participation of all interested parties, and the investigation itself will be carried out in neutral territory.
    The Dutch played too much. Malaysia has actually been removed. Russia is not allowed to investigate and the materials provided are not considered. And the presumption of innocence, so beloved by the shrews, didn’t give a damn. The Russian Foreign Ministry will play out that Russia will be legally declared guilty and imposed exorbitant fines and sanctions.
  11. Dmitry Potapov 15 November 2019 07: 47 New
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    Bring everyone in! By the way, I looked at the sky three times that day! In short, we need to create our own investigation team with Malaysia, pull out all the ins and outs of God, and counterfeit beat the wort with good coverage in all the media, and I don’t think that we should be afraid of something if something was “partners” had already shown would be without any "highly likes".
  12. Simargl 15 November 2019 07: 55 New
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    because these statements will first have to be examined by experts.
    Psychiatrists, or what?
  13. knn54 15 November 2019 07: 59 New
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    I recall the attempt of an international court to launch an investigation into human rights violations by the military from the USA and Great Britain in Iraq - there are too many facts accumulated. And in response there are such DIRECT threats from the Anglo-Saxons that the case of the "peddlers of democracy" was instantly closed.
    1. bouncyhunter 15 November 2019 08: 29 New
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      And here the situation is diametrically opposite: there is zero evidence of Russia's guilt, but we must blame!
      1. Pete mitchell 15 November 2019 10: 47 New
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        hi
        Quote: bouncyhunter
        evidence of Russia's guilt - zero, but must be blamed!

        It seems to me that we need to understand for what this commission works: who and what task they set for this 'sharashka'. The answer, in principle, is on the surface: it’s just another stone in the information war against Russia, as always, people don’t give a damn, but the bourgeois public hails and then it’s easier to convince of Russian “aggression” and, accordingly, to squeeze the money. Nothing is new under the moon ...
        Even American experts question their government’s statements about this. Comedians from 404 their opinion generally send by mail.
        1. bouncyhunter 15 November 2019 10: 52 New
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          hi
          Quote: Pete Mitchell
          Comedians from 404

          As if in the finale, these comedians, coupled with the puppeteers, did not burst into flaming tears. Everyone understands the absurdity of Russia’s mattress accusations of all trumped-up cases, but only a few dare to talk about it out loud, and even then they prefer not to hear them. And this, to put it mildly, is very bad ... sad
          1. Pete mitchell 15 November 2019 11: 47 New
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            Quote: bouncyhunter
            Everyone understands the absurdity of Russia's mattress accusations of all fabricated cases.

            Man, this is on this side of the barricade. For many many reasons, we inherited critical attitude to information. And 'behind the fence' people stupidly hawks what they feed him. I have repeatedly talked with the bourgeoisie - they sincerely believe that they have never heard the opinion of the Russian Federation at all. By the way, it is their fighters who are distinguished by a cautious attitude to this commission.
            But in modern 'civilized tolerant' and of course to the ears 'democratic' world, an opinion different from the 'party line'
            Quote: bouncyhunter
            prefer not to hear. And this, to put it mildly, is very bad ... sad
            1. bouncyhunter 15 November 2019 11: 52 New
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              Quote: Pete Mitchell
              sincerely believe the opinion of the Russian Federation has never been heard

              This is understandable: they believe in their "zombie channels." But is it not all without exception?
              1. Pete mitchell 15 November 2019 12: 00 New
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                Quote: bouncyhunter
                Believe your zombie channels. But is it not all without exception?

                Yes, by and large all do not care. And those who are interested polls believe in "party lines." As already said - the warriors take very critical
          2. valeryb 15 November 2019 17: 39 New
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            Quote: bouncyhunter
            Everyone understands
            And who are these all?
      2. poquello 15 November 2019 20: 51 New
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        Quote: bouncyhunter
        And here the situation is diametrically opposite: there is zero evidence of Russia's guilt, but we must blame!

        Malaysia said everything about this indictment, it is not a consequence - it is a big top with a poorly rehearsed number.
  14. bzbo 15 November 2019 08: 16 New
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    It’s time for Zakharova to comment on the behavior of the “West Glossy” only with selective mat.
  15. Ural-4320 15 November 2019 08: 16 New
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    Why shouldn’t Maria Zakharova switch to normal Russian, and not call a lie a lie, and not a veiled Americanism fake?
  16. Ham
    Ham 15 November 2019 08: 26 New
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    only one thing has been proven ironically: there is no "evidence" of Russia's involvement in this very "commission"!
    that’s why the name Shoigu suddenly surfaced ... they would have written “Putin”, but it would have been such fierce nonsense that the “commission” could safely have dissolved itself after that ...
    just rzhunimaga - in plain text on the radio, spit on codes and encryption tables about such archival matters - OPEN TEXT, CARL !!! - “this is Shoigu!” ... specially, probably for the “commission” ...
  17. Zaurbek 15 November 2019 08: 28 New
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    Why is the GDP not mentioned?
    1. Mordvin 3 15 November 2019 08: 55 New
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      Quote: Zaurbek
      Why is the GDP not mentioned?

      He has nothing to do with it. So, flew by ...
      1. Zaurbek 15 November 2019 08: 59 New
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        Maybe he directed from the air ...
  18. rocket757 15 November 2019 08: 44 New
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    So, in the report, which the official representative of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs Maria Zakharova called complete absurdity,

    And what can I add? AND NOTHING!
  19. Crimean partisan 1974 15 November 2019 08: 51 New
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    unclear. why do you have to justify expressing your concern, and so on expressing it, anu and if it’s crucial, then invite Jenny Psaki instead of Zakharchenko, she’s an advanced Marishka in this matter
  20. hohol95 15 November 2019 09: 01 New
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    ON A DIRECT WINDING ROAD
    On a straight winding road
    A wheelless truck was driving.
    We went to the wake
    We went to bury Alive ...
    Everyone escaped from the madhouse together
    Digging through the attic through the basement.
    And Dumb screamed thieves songs
    And the Deaf wrote down the words.
    Bezrukiy was sitting at the wheel of them,
    And the Footless sting on the brakes.
    The Blind showed them the way
    A beeping endlessly.
    Oh gentlemen from the Netherlands ...
    You are energetic people - you should know good buns with "grass" (a reference to the film "Call Man 2"!
    And behave according to the "students from the" male institution "shown in this film!
  21. Alexey-74 15 November 2019 09: 21 New
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    And from the side of the Natsik, the surname Obama constantly sounded ..... laughing
  22. sokolov_vv 15 November 2019 09: 21 New
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    I think this is completely different.
    Holland......
    They pulled the jamb and neigh with your comments!
    And so it will be until hemp ends.
  23. yfast 15 November 2019 09: 51 New
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    And why in 5 years? Or is it that the militias let slip yesterday?
  24. Kelwin 15 November 2019 09: 58 New
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    Well, what remains for them, the "order" failed, there are no facts, the owl does not stretch to the globe, and that’s the blizzard. This commission itself may fall under the hand for such a breakdown, it may be suspected of sabotage of the “investigation”))
  25. Andrey VOV 15 November 2019 10: 03 New
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    Some apparently new mixture was delivered to Dutch experts
  26. tihonmarine 15 November 2019 10: 13 New
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    The surname Shoigu is in radio intercepts from the territories of Donbass, not controlled by Kiev
    . The surnames Stoltenberg and Trump also sound also sound from the territory of Donbas. And what will we do ???
  27. jaroff 15 November 2019 10: 34 New
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    And all this is because they allowed to give a damn and rub the ICAO rules on accident investigation. In total, the cause of the AP is determined. The reason is determined - external impact. Next, the circumstances of getting this aircraft to the point where it was externally affected are determined. It also clarifies the compliance with the flight plan, route, negotiations, whether there were any other factors that brought it to this point at that time, for example, a thunderstorm and was forced to bypass the thunderstorm, changed the level. It is also specified here that the operator or other parties, including organizations responsible for airspace, did not violate ICAO's governing documents and / or their governing documents governing this flight.
    After that, and only after that, the commission makes a conclusion about the cause of the AP and the factors contributing to this AP. It also indicates what actions or omissions, I emphasize, by aviation officials that led to the AP.
    And only then the conclusion of the commission, if necessary, is attached to the criminal case, if it is instituted.
    In my opinion, such a purely aviation technical investigation has not been carried out, I believe that intentionally, due to the fact that then 100% AviaRukh would be indicated as the organization responsible for security in its airspace, but intentionally, knowing about unsafe conditions in the airspace along the flight route, did not close the airspace.
    Everything else is secondary. It doesn’t matter who in the war pulled the trigger or battle button. This is war.
  28. Baron wrangel 15 November 2019 10: 48 New
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    Insanity is complete. "Radio interception" was allegedly carried out in 2014. Even if it was, it is not a radio interception, but a banal collection of information from the channels of a mobile communication line, which was carried out by the SBU at that time without trial. Stupidly in the framework of the so-called OTPZ (original language - operational and technical poshukovy calls) in a number of counterintelligence cases that were conducted in the DKR according to the classification of "terrorist activity". The words are most likely taken out of context by the GSU SBU for implementation in the media. Those. pure PR move, nothing more. On the other hand, negotiations between Bes and Tser can still not be found. bully bully But that conversation is even “sweeter” than this lobud. We will have to fraud the SBU and falsify it. There, after all, they are talking about a "bird that fell" and which someone shot down. But who?
  29. Vkd dvk 15 November 2019 10: 49 New
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    Is Kozhugetovich able to do this? Even together? The people of Russia participated here. I, too, as a representative of the people, are involved. You need to make me. Write - Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich.
  30. Piramidon 15 November 2019 10: 49 New
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    The explanation from the investigation looks really more than absurd:

    The surname Shoigu is in radio intercepts from the territories of Donbass, not controlled by Kiev.

    It is necessary to use such surnames as Trump, Pompeo, Poroshenko more often during radio exchanges in the Donbass ... laughing
  31. rotmistr60 15 November 2019 10: 52 New
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    This is some kind of absurdity.
    This has long been no longer absurd, but systematic direct information attacks on Russia. The image of a bloodthirsty enemy in the form of Russia has already been created among the western inhabitant and continues to be fixed on the subcortex. The next step is to create a reason for the military conflict through a major provocation with many victims.
  32. Berkut24 15 November 2019 11: 05 New
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    Oh, something has changed at the front. At least, I see the change of tasks of the enemy. The case itself was molded in order to defame the country, impose sanctions, pinch financially, prove that Russia is still fighting with Ukraine, etc.
    And now, apparently, a blow is being struck against Putin’s possible successors. They are trying to make them travel abroad, shook hands and monsters of a nuclear country.
  33. Ros 56 15 November 2019 11: 11 New
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    Citizens of what you are surprised at are the heirs of storytellers like Hans Christian Andersen.
  34. Pete mitchell 15 November 2019 11: 56 New
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    Quote: Baron Wrangel
    Insanity is complete. "Radio interception" was allegedly carried out in 2014

    After all, there are already statements by Malaysian, German and Russian specialists in audio tracks: the presented tracks are trash. I liked the Russian more back in '15, he rivets tracks for Russian pop stars: once aurally listened and said that linden. Two hours was enough for the guy to on molecules expand the record - even in pauses between words, temporary tags differ.
    Quote: bouncyhunter
    they prefer not to hear. And this, to put it mildly, is very bad ... sad
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. Wildcat 15 November 2019 12: 03 New
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    recourse
    I had to read that the coming March was cooking for us.
    If we have only M. Zakharov in this matter, then our business is not very.
    Nobody knows, the Russian Federation hired someone for this court case in Holland or are we waiting again that Zakharova will talk and decide everything by herself? Local lawyers should be more powerful, and an international company such as Price lists should look after us! If they lose, then not dry.
    For money, if you look at Iranian-American history or Tu154 in 2001, then not much will come of it. 4 those under investigation, of course, do not go anywhere ...
    1. Antares 15 November 2019 13: 27 New
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      Quote: Wildcat
      Local lawyers should be more powerful, and an international company such as Price lists should look after us

      maybe again the London company of lawyers (the one that Gazprom serves in the arbitration court) will be.
      There are very expensive lawyers.
      They quite often won the courts for Russian companies.
      (although against New York in Stockholm they lost)
      1. Wildcat 16 November 2019 17: 31 New
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        It is necessary to take 2 companies so that they check each other and deal with the business, rather than scribbling reports on hundreds of pages to the client.
        4 defendants also need to find normal lawyers: 1- so that they do not feel abandoned; 2 - so that at least someone works to crush the charges (and it doesn’t hurt to look at the evidence, at least they will teach someone to use the phone).
        They will drive officials out of business, for they will start again. Already went to the maritime arbitration, that's enough.
        In general, it is necessary to prepare for the court, and not to rely on Zakharova and what will "carry". angry
        In general, if 4 defendants stop, this is not excellent, but not entirely bad. Shooters they sure .... will write compensation ....
        1. Antares 16 November 2019 17: 40 New
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          Quote: Wildcat
          2 companies must be taken

          Yes expensive! Gazprom Londoners take sickly grandmother. They decide matters for billions. Yes, and here the question of prestige.
          The main feature of the Russian Federation with all this jurisprudence in Europe is “what if it dissolves itself”, which is adjacent to another theory (it’s better to be silent, if only everyone knows)
          and of course - “consent to the court, automatically involvement in all cases”
          I don’t know what will be done in Russia this time (everything can always change)
          usually, all citizens consider one thing (nafik it is necessary, high are the forest) and the elite is different. The interests of the state are unfamiliar to either one or the other. Usually decides "own shirt closer to the body."
          A narrow circle of state interests is usually not heard.
          1. Wildcat 16 November 2019 18: 24 New
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            hi IMHO
            Not the fact that specialists in gas contracts will come in handy in a criminal court. It is necessary to take local people who go to this court every Bog day and know what the judge wants and what the prosecutor responds to. And it is necessary that a big company look after them, otherwise "we will lose anyway, break out." Let every euro work out. what
            The 4 defendants must also be provided with protection, otherwise they will think that they "threw us" and then they will give interviews and write books in turn.
            March 2020 in the Netherlands is a rare case when both the state and the elite and the people have one interest - to get away from the prosecution. 4 defendants who "in a situation ..... mixed up ... had no intent ... to defend against mass attacks was created air defense ...." - not the worst option (the rest - to shower with money / ranks / housing in Kursk / holidays only in Crimea and explain that any woman on Vkontakte can be a Dutch man, you have to watch! And don’t fuck (squeak) with anyone! Otherwise, instead of a beach in Turkey, you can "relax" for years .. in Holland).
            And one can generally leave without a verdict for "lack of evidence". But for this we must work actively! And do not wait for the thunder to strike. “Consent to the court” can not be given, and “participation” not shine, but the lawyers of the 4 defendants can sit headlong in evidence, by the way: "I'm sorry, your honor, but neither Gloomy, nor Mole, nor Strelkov, nor Gyurza didn’t even sit in beech, even according to the prosecutor - so what are we doing here? Getting on the phone is not a crime yet. Who pressed the button and with what intent when it will be clear - then call for court ... And now, stop the case for non-involvement ... ".
  37. aszzz888 15 November 2019 12: 14 New
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    5,5 years after the events over the Donbass, the Dutch investigators suddenly announced that almost all the heads of the Russian power departments could be involved in the case.

    The nonsense of this unfinished will never end. laughing
  38. surovts.valery 15 November 2019 13: 36 New
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    Quote: Chit
    Do you know how I am different from cheers-patriots? Hooray-patriot does not recognize any facts. No evidence. For him, the MO said is dogma. It is sacred. And not questioned. Said MO: The Boeing was shot down by Su-24 cannons (25?) - that's it! No doubt. Then, however, the same MO asserts the exact opposite: the Boeing was hit by a Buk missile! All! Dot! Do not argue! Hooray-patriot does not argue.

    You do not cheer patriots from Brovary (with Pid Kuiva) know better. Please provide links to "Moscow Defense Ministry claims", the Russian Defense Ministry itself, its official representatives voiced versions of what the Boeing was shot down. If you imagine, I’ll send you a box of cognac in Brovary.
  39. Vladimir61 15 November 2019 13: 45 New
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    Maria Zakharova noted that she was not going to give a political assessment of the statements, because these statements would first have to be examined by experts.
    Yah? Maria Vladimirovna, drop diplomacy, say bluntly: - "These statements will first have to be studied by psychiatrists."
  40. thinker 15 November 2019 15: 14 New
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    Quote: IL-18
    Check out today's news ru.com. There a little JIT was referenced ...

    "Some JIT" - cool! At this info noise, the legs grow from here -
    MH17 Joint Investigation Team JIT: appeal to witnesses - november 2019
    To a predetermined answer you need to adjust the solution to the problem -
    SAM "BUK" belonged to the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade, a unit of the Russian armed forces in Kursk, Russian Federation.
    JIT is looking for witnesses who can share information about those individuals who controlled the leadership of the DPR in Donetsk and ordered the deployment of the BUK air defense system ...
    We are making great efforts to establish the truth. about the crash of an airliner flight MH17. JIT investigation team is looking for people who have any information

    Looks bad things with a "certain JIT". https://www.politie.nl/
  41. Ivan Osipov 15 November 2019 17: 35 New
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    Inferior Dutch, forgot Lenin, Stalin and Putin ...
  42. iouris 15 November 2019 23: 27 New
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    +1
    Destruction of passenger aircraft by US intelligence always precedes political operations that have global political consequences. And this story will still have consequences. Some large state will disappear or plunge into chaos. At least they plan it that way.
    1. Charik 16 November 2019 14: 23 New
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      As they are the Poles president with the top slammed near Smolensk-clearly
  43. The comment was deleted.
  44. Charik 16 November 2019 13: 18 New
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    how did you react- "these days" began?
  45. Dmitry Donskoy 16 November 2019 17: 43 New
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    Quote: SERGOL
    Next supreme

    Yes, hardly. Age is not the same
  46. Gas smoke protector 16 November 2019 19: 26 New
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    At our place, Zakharova reacts to everything without exception. And with lightning speed. Only here is no use.
  47. Alexey Lobov 17 November 2019 05: 32 New
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    Quote: jonht
    In this case, they try to hang on Us something that even cannot be pulled by the ears, or easier ... They try to pull the Owl on the globe, greasing it with different fakes whose reliability cannot be confirmed. hi

    Not for us, but for specific obtuse kiddies. The investigation called their names. Are you and me?