Chinese fighters with AFAR will displace Russian aircraft on the market?


21st Century Radar



In November 2019, Defense Aerospace reported that for the Chinese fighter J-11B (nothing more than a copy of the Su-27SC) have created new airborne radar station with active phased array antenna (AFAR). This is more than interesting, given the large fleet of these machines. However, it is even more interesting to look at the situation as a whole.

What is a radar with AFAR? If you do not go into details - the most technologically advanced radar station for fighters today. It is used for the most advanced fighters of the fourth generation, as well as for fighters of the last, fifth, generation. So the F-22 Raptor has an AN / APG-77 radar with an active phased array, and the F-35 has AN / APG-81. What exactly is the advantage of such a concept? If you do not go into details, the radar with AFAR allows you to detect targets faster, at a much greater distance and at the same time has outstanding reliability.

AFAR operates on the principle of controlling the phases of the signals: the system is based on transceiver modules or MRP (F-22 has about two thousand of them). Changing the phases of the signals emitted by the transceiver modules gives the radar with AFAR the ability to form a powerful directional beam, allowing you to solve problems much more efficiently than the old pulse-Doppler radar stations. Otherwise, a radar with a VFAR or a passive phased antenna array works - the forerunner of a radar with a AFAR. VFAR does not have active devices: to generate a radio signal, a single radio transmitter is used for the entire system, after which it is distributed among all radiating elements.

With some similarities between the radar concepts and the AFAR, it’s more reliable (failure of one anti-aircraft radar will not be a big problem), easier and more universal. “Previously, if, for example, the transmitter failed, the plane would become blind. And here one or two cells are affected, even a dozen, and the remaining thousands continue to work, ”says the Director General of NIIP them. Tikhomirova Yuri Bely. As for universality, the radar with AFAR, unlike others, allows you to simultaneously search for and detect targets, perform cartography, and even interfere with a potential enemy. Redirecting part of the modules to solve specific problems.

The disadvantages of active phased antenna arrays are their high price, but you need to understand that modern military technologies (and not only modern ones) usually cost more than representatives of previous generations. Especially at the stage of their early use.

The battle for air and for the market


For Russia, the introduction of radar with AFAR into its fighter planes will be truly an innovation, no matter how strange it sounds. The country has not yet physically adopted a single serial fighter possessing such technologies. The Su-35С and Su-30СМ aircraft delivered to the troops have radars with PFAR: Irbis and Bars, respectively. And the MiG-35 and Su-57 (both must have radar with AFAR) are still only prototypes, although the first production Su-57 should be delivered to the VKS this year. Recently it was even shown.


But what about China? The J-11Bs mentioned above originally had the old Type 1474 radars: according to experts, this is nothing but the Chinese version of the old Soviet radar H011. As it became known now, tests of the advanced J-11B fighter with a new radar are carried out in a desert area and quite successfully. In the future, a new radar with AFAR will allow to equip Chinese J-11B fighters with new aviation missiles PL-15. “Unlike the black radar cones (domes) typical of our J-11B fighters in the front of the aircraft, the new radars are installed under the white cone (dome). The new radars allow the use of long-range missiles, ”the Chinese television channel CCTV said.


Recall that the PL-15 is a new long-range missile with an active homing radar, which has already managed to arouse great interest in the West.

In total, according to data from open sources, China has at its disposal 95 J-11 fighters and 110 J-11B / BS. However, soon all these machines could be replaced by another aircraft - purely Chinese (with some reservations). The fact is that now China has about 300 J-10 fighters in its composition. About 50 fighters from this number belong to the J-10B version and have radar with AFAR, a "subtle" air intake, a modern front-view optical station and the new WS-10A engine. In the 2018 year, it became known that the new J-10C fighter, which, among other things, has improved stealth, entered the arsenal of China.


You can, of course, laugh at the Chinese, saying that the J-10 is a "copy" of the Israeli "Lavi" or something else. However, you need to understand that now the latest versions of the “Chinese” surpass the most advanced serial Russian fighters in terms of avionics (flight performance is a completely different issue, we will not consider it now).

It is also noteworthy that the Chinese aircraft is relatively cheap: at least in the early configuration. According to data from open sources, the price of one J-10 varies from 30 to 40 million dollars. Even if we raise the bar to 60 millions, it will be significantly lower than the export value of Su-35С. Recall that in the 2018 year, Rossiyskaya Gazeta, the official press organ of the Russian government, citing the Chinese publication Phoenix reported that the details of the contract for the supply of Su-35 to China were officially announced at the Economic Forum in St. Petersburg. Its total price is 2,5 billion dollars. If you recalculate the cost of one car, it turns out 104 million dollars per plane.

This is not surprising when you consider that previously the price of the Su-30MKI of the Indian assembly is approximately 80 million dollars. That is, roughly speaking, it was at the F-35A price level at the time of the deployment of the serial production of this combat aircraft. If you try to supply the Su-30 / 35 with a hypothetical Russian radar with an active phased array, their price will increase even more. Such an "amusing" arithmetic.

It's five


From a formal point of view, the new Russian Su-57 and the new Chinese J-20, also related to the fifth generation, have radars of the same level. The radar with the AFAR Н036 Squirrel, which has approximately 1500 PPM, should become a Russian car. It must be assumed that the J-20 radar has similar characteristics.


However, you need to understand that the J-20 has already been adopted, and in the future the pace of production of this aircraft will only grow. In this regard, the main intrigue remains the combat capabilities and the price of the car: it is now very difficult to judge both one and the other due to lack of data. But if the Chinese succeed at least halfway, the Su-57 runs the risk of getting a very dangerous enemy in the global arms market.
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  1. Zaurbek 15 November 2019 18: 10 New
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    There will be no Chinese with modern avionics cheaper Su35С .... electronics thing is expensive!
    1. Professor 15 November 2019 18: 15 New
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      Quote: Zaurbek
      There will be no Chinese with modern avionics cheaper Su35С .... electronics thing is expensive!

      Yes, electronics is an expensive thing, but the Chinese are the global forge of electronics.
      1. Zaurbek 15 November 2019 18: 29 New
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        As practice shows, products at the same level are already on the same level.
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Svetlana 15 November 2019 20: 42 New
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        Yes, electronics is an expensive thing, but the Chinese are the global forge of electronics.

        Despite the fact that, all the latest electronics, is developed for the forges of the forge. They are only allowed to forge.
      3. Far East 16 November 2019 02: 13 New
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        you're right! but, they are not riveting their own "developers" the time will come, and they will remain with their super plants one on one. and when there is NO BRAIN, it is a SEAM!
      4. bya965 17 November 2019 05: 03 New
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        Do not confuse consumer goods with military electronics. I think the Chinese have done everything on the basis of consumer goods.
    2. Tisha 15 November 2019 18: 35 New
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      Author! No need to write your thoughts about the H036 "Squirrel". By detection range, it has no equal to the world. Here, the calculation of the detection range at the VO was repeatedly given. But such as you and other strategists, apparently do not give a damn about the characteristics, it’s better to give a damn about Russian equipment ... The target detection range with an image intensifier = 1 m2 is 400 km for the Squirrel N036 radar. In the field of development of AFAR, microwave devices and modules - Russia is ahead of the United States and other countries. It is recognized by the USA.
      1. Zaurbek 15 November 2019 18: 58 New
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        And where did you get the data about ^ protein ^?
        1. Herman 4223 15 November 2019 21: 22 New
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          This data is publicly available. Only the lazy do not know them. And squirrel is not just one radar, but five. Two of which operate in the decameter wavelength range, due to which it can detect aircraft made using stealth technology.
    3. Proctologist 15 November 2019 23: 22 New
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      It is a mistake to think that electronics is expensive. It is expensive to develop, build a plant with the necessary process technology, and then - it goes on weight. The bucket is fifty dollars. Duplication is not so expensive. In addition to the cost of components (and China is the main supplier of rare-earth elements - that is, even expensive domestic components, therefore they are relatively expensive), there are no more special costs besides those already incurred - plant construction and development, R&D.

      There are factories in China, R&D has already been done. Replicating them will be relatively cheap.
      1. Good_Anonymous 15 November 2019 23: 33 New
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        Quote: Proctologist
        It is a mistake to think that electronics is expensive. It is expensive to develop, build a plant with the necessary process technology, and then - it goes on weight. The bucket is fifty dollars. Duplication is not so expensive.


        This is just a big mistake. Not all electronics are cheap to replicate. Not to mention the fact that development costs need to be paid back, and they are paid off through the sale of finished products.
      2. Sckepsis 21 November 2019 17: 42 New
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        Please do not say what you do not know. Military electronics, rightly or not, costs a lot of money.
  2. Lexus 15 November 2019 18: 12 New
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    The entire Chinese defense industry is sharpened to oust Russian suppliers from the global arms market. They are not yet able to compete with pro-American manufacturers, except for the price, but we still got a "snake on the chest". I would say they even raised them.
    1. A good one 15 November 2019 18: 27 New
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      Quote: lexus
      but we "snake on the chest" still warmed.

      Not us, but you. request
    2. valeryb 15 November 2019 18: 29 New
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      Quote: lexus
      The entire Chinese defense industry is sharpened to oust Russian suppliers from the global arms market. They are not yet able to compete with pro-American manufacturers, except for the price, but we still got a "snake on the chest". I would say they even raised them.
      Well, but in parallel there are people who call on 57 Chinese to give, but quickly. And like them full.
    3. knn54 15 November 2019 18: 32 New
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      Well, actually the Yankees were raised. Russia "joined" later.
      1. Lexus 15 November 2019 18: 42 New
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        Well, actually the Yankees were raised. Russia "joined" later.

        The Americans as a whole helped the industry. But the Chinese defense is almost completely "Russian" face. Missiles, SPRN, aviation, tanks, ships, submarines and more. There are no American roots. But all the existing ones are painfully similar to our technique. They do not hide it.
        Even what we ourselves do not have, such as the Chinese Aegis, was created, at least, with the assistance of our specialists and other "graduates" of Soviet universities.
        1. Vaddik 15 November 2019 19: 21 New
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          And they also helped them master the space program with teikunavtami
        2. kjhg 15 November 2019 20: 00 New
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          Quote: lexus
          SPRN

          We and the Chinese have completely different systems. A couple of days ago on VO there was a good article about this.
    4. vadim dok 16 November 2019 19: 00 New
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      What is the competitive price if Chinese planes are ALREADY more expensive than the F-35?
    5. Nycomed 16 November 2019 20: 35 New
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      Our people have to stand firm about China's export of airplanes that use our engines, and all of them are somehow ours. And let them sell their AFARs to their health.
  3. rocket757 15 November 2019 18: 31 New
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    The Chinese have a powerful electronic industry. Factory of the whole world.
    To us, from that ambush, where all sorts of different and not at all foreign, drove us to, crawl out and crawl out. Because the breakthrough, with such "helmsmen", does not shine for us!
    1. MORDVIN13rus 15 November 2019 19: 50 New
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      Powerful it is powerful, but in what plan? In terms of industrial production for turnkey solutions, yes I agree. But in terms of design, alas, the Chinese are certainly not in the first 10k.
      1. rocket757 15 November 2019 22: 07 New
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        Quote: MORDVIN13rus
        But in terms of design, alas, the Chinese are certainly not in the first 10k

        The Chinese are intensively preparing scientific personnel and building a branch, and all other scientific schools!
        Not the top ten, how come, they already consider leaders in connection !!! To develop to offer everyone a ready-made 5G network structure is not halam bali, this is a serious scientific and technological achievement!
        1. MORDVIN13rus 16 November 2019 19: 35 New
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          The same Chinas came to us in part, to exchange experiences. Only that they did not exchange experiences, but all sniffed out how Buk works like that. At that time, they just purchased the M2 complex, but apparently they didn’t succeed in repeating, from the word in any way. And how is 5G from 4G different? Just a transfer rate. And so what, they obviously didn’t do it themselves, and obviously it wasn’t the first to begin to implement it. And what they introduced, so the Chinese have never had a problem with this. Now, when they create something from scratch, starting from the basics, technology development, and so on, then I personally shake their hand and say good fellows. In the meantime, they have not advanced beyond copying.
          1. rocket757 16 November 2019 20: 45 New
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            The Chinese will learn to do anything and develop themselves ....
            We are not talking about great scientific discoveries, but for now.
  4. Operator 15 November 2019 18: 51 New
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    J20 in full span laughing

  5. bars1 15 November 2019 19: 00 New
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    I hope R&D is already being carried out to equip the Su-35S, Su-34 and Su-30SM AFAR radars ...
    1. Alexey LK 17 November 2019 04: 45 New
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      Quote: bars1
      I hope R&D is already being carried out to equip the Su-35S, Su-34 and Su-30SM AFAR radars ...

      Only without panic !!!!!!!!! AFAR is today, and tomorrow - for ROFAR !!! It makes sense to invest in this, IMHO. So in the "Military Acceptance" told, if that. wink
      1. adept666 30 January 2020 07: 22 New
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        Only without panic !!!!!!!!! AFAR is today

        But what kind of panic? AFAR still really no one brought to mind, unlike VFAR. The Americans have been tormenting the active grid for 30–40 years, and even then they still don’t get bored. About the range of the station - this is a fallacy, modern VFARs on TWT surpass them in this characteristic. The only advantage (real, not marketing and theoretical) of the AFAR is the speed in the operation of some radar modes. The great reliability of the station is also a big exaggeration, firstly, modern mesh TWTs are reliable enough and if you carry out station maintenance on time and have a responsible quality control department, there are no problems with them. Secondly, AFAR is that Trojan horse, for normal operation of the station it is necessary that the PPM-we have very close characteristics, and this is very difficult to achieve and that is why they are like cast from gold, the loss of one or two PPM will not greatly affect the characteristics station? Well, well ... depending on what part of the canvas and repairing them it differs from replacing one TWT with another task (it is necessary to coordinate new MRPs with the rest).
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. Jerk 15 November 2019 19: 50 New
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    Yes, everything is true here, I really did not understand for the "world arms market". Where is this? There is no MARKET as such, and a fresh example of threats from the State Department to Egypt, since they buy the Su-35, is a prime example.
    There are NOT market mechanisms. Sorry, but for the joint with Aramko - at the MARKET COMPETITION - Reiteon goes bankrupt, and leaves the market forever.
    Mechanisms play, very far from the market. Market where can stay? Turkey - there will be competition. Pakistan is unlikely. And all, no more, the market ended with competition. Not to India to sell them?
  8. Tomich3 15 November 2019 20: 04 New
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    "But if the Chinese succeed at least halfway, the Su-57 runs the risk of getting a very dangerous enemy in the global arms market." And how many firm contracts have the Chinese already concluded? Facts in the studio).
    1. voyaka uh 15 November 2019 21: 11 New
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      They built a new large plant that produces only AFAR radars.
      The most diverse. For any aircraft.
    2. Herman 4223 15 November 2019 21: 28 New
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      Yes, they are selling it and are not going to in the near future. They declassified his appearance in 12 years if I am not mistaken when he was already flying.
  9. Carib 15 November 2019 21: 10 New
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    Quote: bars1
    I hope R&D is already being carried out to equip the Su-35S, Su-34 and Su-30SM AFAR radars ...

    I think that if we had brought AFAR to the series, we would have already begun to modernize our own and would have already been in the price lists at exhibitions. Maybe of course there is already but not for everyone ... like a military secret, everything can be ...
  10. The leader of the Redskins 15 November 2019 21: 12 New
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    If according to the article, without unnecessary emotional outbursts, then the Chinese, having brought these samples to serial production and lowering the price, will be able to break into the modernization segment of the former Soviet aircraft.
  11. DPN
    DPN 15 November 2019 21: 45 New
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    In general, there is nothing strange in this, the USSR taught them everything, showed that the Union used to supply them with cars and airplanes, now our Russian open spaces are overwhelmed with their industry and cars at every corner of them. As one general said: You are flying according to the Swiss watch, and we will fly on our own and they succeeded, but for now we share the skin of the killed BEAR.
  12. max chervon 15 November 2019 23: 04 New
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    I didn’t understand much why so openly compare with China, were you really going to fight with him? Another question is cheap, does not mean quality, in engine manufacturing and metal science (losers). Electronics is also thanks to corporations like Intel.
    And we can also purchase electronics in Taiwan, which we are doing successfully.
  13. Maxwrx 15 November 2019 23: 30 New
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    The only problem the Chinese have is alloys. Hence, such a small engine resource and their low characteristics. The most advanced electronics in Taiwan, the USA and partially Britain. China is average. I give the engines 15 years, electronics 5-10 years and they will catch up with the leaders.
    1. Cyril G ... 16 May 2020 10: 54 New
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      Yes. However, I believe that if we and the Americans do not stop on the engines, who the hell will the Chinese catch on the resource
  14. alexey alexeyev_2 15 November 2019 23: 50 New
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    Aftora to listen - well, go to bed and die .. At least go and give up .. What are these panic moods of? Can’t it work like with tanks .. How many years have they clone our tanks clones .. And they went to biathlon and got rid of it liquid .. So and with the locator will be .. Tooth give ...
    1. rhino 16 November 2019 01: 38 New
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      And how much time did Soviet tank building take and not only to achieve quality no worse than in the West ??? So the Chinese will be. All this is only a matter of time.
      1. alexey alexeyev_2 16 November 2019 08: 10 New
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        Three years ago, they found suckers somewhere in America and gave them "the latest radars." In Russia they are not released beyond antiquity. And the Chinese riveted .. Well, what? It seems that both technology and production are easier than steamed turnip .. But no ... They didn’t work for six months. The scandal was creepy .. And the Turks onet slipped their clone s-300 ... The cake that ruled Erdogan more than once regretted the purchase ...
  15. Comrade Kim 17 November 2019 00: 10 New
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    Quote: rocket757
    To us, from that ambush, where all sorts of different and not at all foreign, drove us to, crawl out and crawl out. Because the breakthrough, with such "helmsmen", does not shine for us!


    Nothing, somehow crawl out.
    But while officials such as the head of the FIU will so shamelessly fatten, do not wait for a breakthrough.
    And at the expense of China's ability to produce radars with AFAR, it is better not to doubt.
    Unfortunately, they no longer step on their heels, but begin to show us their backs.

    "A pensioner needs to save 2777 years for a luxurious apartment of the head of the FIU