Combat aircraft. Pe-3 and Pe-3 bis. Twice born in spite of everything

Combat aircraft. Pe-3 and Pe-3 bis. Twice born in spite of everything

For a very long time, I admit, I was getting close to this plane. No wonder, very little has been written about Pe-3. If there is a book about Pe-2 - at best, Pe-3 will be given a chapter. Say, it was. If the article is enough, a few sentences are enough. But there are no books or more or less serious studies.


True, there is a hint of a certain ray of light in the dark kingdom, this is the work of Andrei Morkovkin. When the book is finished, I am sure it will be a pleasure to all lovers of our flying stories.

We’ll not talk about this very controversial aircraft in such detail as Morkovkin’s, but links to ready-made chapters will be at the end of the article, so anyone who is interested has a lot of useful and detailed information.

Pe-Xnumx. Heavy fighter


Few people know the secret that the forerunner was the 100 fighter, which was planned as a high-altitude interceptor. However, it turned out that the fighter was urgently converted into a dive bomber, and the aircraft went into service as the Pe-2.

However, in the summer of 1941, when the Germans were able to deliver air strikes in Moscow, they remembered the forerunner plane again.

The Germans were by no means fools, and understood very well that a raid on Moscow during the day was suicide. They appreciated the air defense of Moscow very quickly. But at night it was possible to try to impose a battle on their own terms.

The first raid ended, to put it mildly, not very successfully. Firstly, the damage was minimal, and secondly, the loss of 20 or 22 aircraft - this is cool for such an operation, since about two hundred aircraft were involved.

But then the Luftwaffe began to work in small groups, and difficulties began for ours.

A group in 6-9 aircraft is much more difficult to detect than a crowd of several hundred, this is understandable. It is easier for a single bomber to jump out of the beam of a searchlight, and it is more difficult for fighter aircraft to find it.

Given that we did not have any full-fledged nightlights, the task turned out to be very difficult. Often, ordinary fighters did not have time to gain altitude and catch up with the bomber.

The logical decision was, if not the creation of a night fighter, which in 1941 was simply unrealistic for a number of reasons, then at least a barrage interceptor, which would be able to cover a certain area for a long time and attack bombers if they appeared.

Here they remembered that the Pe-2 was originally just such an aircraft.


And on August 2 on 1941, by the decision of the State Defense Committee, the design team of V. M. Petlyakov was tasked with creating a heavy fighter. Deadline ... August 6 1941

That's right, 4 days were allotted to remaking a dive bomber back into a heavy fighter.

But as usual, the task of the party and government in KB Petlyakova coped. And if they hadn’t done it, I think everyone would again be in the next “sharaga”. Created specifically for this occasion.

But given that the enemy was already on the outskirts of the capital, no one had to be driven.

No drawings were made, all improvements were carried out locally. Battle collective farm. The main goal of the improvements was to increase the range by facilitating the design and increasing the amount of fuel, and strengthening weapons.

It was possible to increase the amount of fuel on 700 l by installing additional tanks: one in the bomb bay and two in place of the shooter's cabin. Oval side portholes and the top hatch were sewn up, removed the lower machine gun installation. But the bottom hatch was left.

To facilitate the construction, the electric control system for dropping bombs was dismantled, the brake grilles under the consoles, and the radio meteorological reserve were removed. Of the bomb holders, only four were left - two external and two in the engine nacelles. They replaced the radio station of the RSB-bis bomber with a fighter version of the RSI-4.

Regarding the replacement of the radio station, there are several opinions. Morkovkin believes that everything is correct, since the Pe-3 was not a fighter of long-range escort, he did not need a long-range radio station and radio half-ammunition. You can read about it with him.

I completely disagree with him. The aircraft was set to a flight range of 2000 + km, respectively, the combat radius was obtained somewhere in the region of 700-800 km.

The communication range of the aircraft with the ground using RSI-4 was a maximum of 100-110 km, and with other aircraft even less - 50-60 km. Plus, lightening of the structure by removing the radio half-pass.

Honestly, it was not entirely clear to me how it was planned to aim and correct such a night fighter. In fact, it turned out some kind of blind poking in space in the hope of the light of the enemy spotlights.

Strengthening weapons turned out to be nominal. Or rather, minimal. We added one BK machine gun in the bow and one ShKAS in a fixed tail unit (now there were gas tanks instead of the shooter).

As a result, the aircraft had offensive armament with two BK machine guns (150 cartridges ammunition per barrel) and one ShKAS (750 cartridges) and two ShKAS defenses, one of which was served by a navigator, and the second was fixedly mounted.


As a result, the aircraft remained in the same weight category as the Pe-2, although the range (2150 km) and speed (530 km / h at an altitude of 5000 m) increased slightly.

But in general, the plane came out very so-so. For 1941 of the year - especially. The same stunted and feeble Messerschmitt Bf.110С with DB601A motors turned out to be stronger than the Pe-3. With almost the same range, ground speed (445 km / h) and climb time 5000 m (8,5-9 min), the 110 was lighter by 1350 kg and had better maneuverability in the horizontal plane.

The armament of the Bf.110С was one and a half times more powerful in the mass of a second volley due to the 20-mm gun and four machine guns of the 7,92-mm caliber.

And since the fall of 1941, when Bf.110E appeared in the sky with more powerful DB601E motors, the 110 became faster in all altitude ranges.

To compare with the older in time development of the American P-38 is generally sad. Battery of 20-mm guns and four machine guns 12,7-mm, higher speed and - armor! Which Pe-3 did not have at all.

Here it is appropriate to recall again the VI-100 created by Petlyakov, “Sotka”, on the basis of which the Pe-2 bomber was made. VI-100 originally had offensive weapons 2 ShVAK guns 20-mm with ammunition 300 shells on the barrel and 2 machine gun ShKAS 7,62-mm with ammunition 900 cartridges.

Pe-3 looks very faded against its background. But this is a fee for a quick remake. After all, the Pe-3 was made on the basis of the Pe-2, and not the VI-100, but for the dive bomber, just a large glazed area of ​​the bow, which provided ease of orientation and aiming, was very important.

Naturally, the rush and 4 of the day for everything simply did not allow redesigning the bow of the aircraft and marking more powerful weapons there. Testers from the Air Force Research Institute noted precisely these shortcomings in the reports: weak armament, lack of reservation, weak radio station.

It was recommended to install one 20-mm ShVAK gun, and replace the machine gun of the navigator of the 7,62-mm caliber with a large-caliber Berezina.

But that was not all.

When shooting offensive machine guns, it turned out that the plexiglass nose of the fuselage does not withstand the pressure of muzzle gases and collapses. Shells flying when shooting in the air hit the front skin of the wing and the lower surface of the fuselage. And during night firing, the flame of the shots blinds the crew, and the scope of the sight becomes invisible, I had to aim at the tracers.

Changes were made instantly. Flame arresters were installed on machine gun trunks, the plexiglass toe was replaced with aluminum. Sleeves began to be assembled together with the links in special drawer sleeves.

Blinds were made on the lower glazing, as it turned out that the spotlights blind the crew. For the first time in the USSR, Pe-3 installed and tested ultraviolet lighting in the cockpit and phosphorescent compounds on instrument scales.

But the weapons, unfortunately, were left unchanged. And the reservation, or rather, its absence.

But the plane was needed, so with tears, but in a series it was launched.

The tactics of using the Pe-3 were also developed. The aircraft began to enter the arsenal of units where the flight crew was trained in the use of the Pe-2 (95-sbap, for example), respectively, the pilots imagined what to expect from a fighter based on the Pe-2.

Various methods of combat use of the Pe-3 were proposed - from barrage in pairs as a kind of observation posts that destroy individual enemy vehicles and immediately cause reinforcements when large groups of enemy aircraft approach, to lead and direct single-engine fighters on the radio. If the radio allows, naturally.

The account of victories at Pe-3 was opened on October 3 on 1941 of the year by the pilot of the 95 IAP (renamed 95-sap) Senior Lieutenant Fortov, who shot down Ju.88.

In the same 95-m IAP in the field, the Pe-3 weaponry was modified, and several machines received the 20-mm ShVAK gun and BT machine gun instead of the ShKAS at the navigator. There were cases of field conversion of aircraft into reconnaissance aircraft by installing AFA-B aerial cameras on them.

Pe-3 served in the Moscow air defense system until March 1942. It is curious that water was not drained from the radiators even on the coldest nights, since the regiment was considered to be fighter, and the “take-off” command could arrive at any moment.

However, as soon as the Germans were thrown back from Moscow, the Pe-3 began to engage in bombing of enemy troops, fortunately, the bomb racks on the external sling were not dismantled.

In fact, by the 1943 year, all the non-3 remaining in service were transferred to training aircraft and given to the flight schools that trained personnel for the Pe-2. Scouts with aerial cameras were used singly.

LTH Pe-3

Wingspan, m: 17,13
Length, m: 12,67
Height, m: 3,93
Wing area, м2: 40,80

Weight, kg
- empty aircraft: 5 730
- takeoff: 7 860

Engine: 2 x M-105P x 1050 hp

Maximum speed km / h
- by the ground: 442
- at height: 535

Practical range, km: 2 150
Combat radius of action, km: 1 500
Maximum rate of climb, m / min: 556
Practical ceiling, m: 8 600

Crew, prs: 2

Armament:
- two 12,7-mm machine gun BK and one 7,62-mm machine gun ShKAS offensive;
- two 7,62-mm ShKAS machine gun defensive;
- bomb load - 2 x 250-kg under the fuselage and 2x100 under the nacelles

Pe-3bis


What is an encore? It is believed that this is from the English abbreviation "Best Item in Slot (Best in Slot)" - which means "the best thing in terms of performance."


It seems logical that way, but most are inclined to believe that “bis” is a Russian transcription of the word “bis”, which means “second version”. In Latin bis, twice.

This marking was used to indicate a new version of an existing product, if for some reason the designation of a new model is not introduced.

The Pe-3bis fighter was born following the appeal of the commander of the 95 IAP Colonel Pestov and the comics of the same regiment, Captain Zhatkov, directly to the Secretary of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, Malenkov, criticizing the Pe-3 aircraft.

As a communist to a communist.

Zhatkov described in detail all the shortcomings of the Pe-3, duplicating the report of the experts of the Air Force Research Institute. Colonel Pestov criticized the complete lack of defense against enemy defensive fire.

According to the pilots, the fighter should urgently set up the nose armor protection, the ShVAK gun and replace the top installation of the navigator with ShKAS with a turret with a heavy machine gun BT.

Zhatkov ended his appeal with the words: “Our pilots are ready to fight in any machine, including this one, but people and cars are too dear to us now, and there is no point in sacrificing for the enemy’s small blood.”

Perhaps it is worth noting that the “critic” Zhatkov ended the war as lieutenant colonel, commander of an air regiment.

Malenkov, instead of imprisoning, trying, and shooting Zhatkov and Pestov, who criticized Soviet technology, demanded that the Air Force command urgently understand the situation and report back.

Here, from the pilots of the 40 SBAP, who had also embarked on the re-equipment of this aircraft, the design bureau of the factory No. 39, where the Pe-3 was produced, also received an expression of extreme displeasure.

So after Malenkov's roar, the flaws should be eliminated, and urgently eliminated. Design proposals were entrusted to the design bureau of plant No.39 and as a result, an experienced advanced Pe-3bis aircraft appeared.


The experienced Pe-3bis differed from the serial Pe-3 in the following:
- completely removed the glazing, which only interfered;
- instead of the BK machine guns, two UBK machine guns (with 250 rounds per barrel) and a ShVAK cannon with ammunition 250 rounds were installed in the bow;
- instead of the upper turret mount of the navigator TSS-1 with a ShKAS machine gun, a mobile unit with a UBT machine gun and 180 ammunition in a rotating turret was mounted; - - wing consoles equipped with automatic slats;
- reduced the length of the lamp of the cockpit, and also moved forward by almost half a meter anti-skid frame;
- the filling system for gas tanks with nitrogen was replaced with the so-called filling system for tanks with cooled exhaust gases of engines;
- mounted anti-curtain curtains on all glass windows;
- Installed the anti-icing system on the screws and windshield of the flashlight.



The reservation was strengthened: the front of the pilot was covered with separate armored plates from 4 to 6,5 mm thick, the pilot's armored seat was made of steel with 13 mm thickness, the lower cockpit hatch was reserved to protect against accidental shots from the UBC at the time of boarding the plane.

The total mass of armor increased to 148 kg, and the total mass of Pe-3bis increased by 180 kg compared to Pe-3.

The speed at altitude decreased to 527 km / h, but the speed at ground increased to 448 km / h. Automatic slats somewhat simplified the piloting technique, especially on landing, because the Pe-3 inherited not the best features from the Pe-2 in this regard.

What about the airplane? He was, he fought. They released Pe-3 and Pe-3 bis in total about 360 units, so by and large, this is a drop in the bucket for a fighter.

Moreover, Pe-3 fought mainly not in that capacity. Only about 50 machines were used as fighters, the rest fought by scouts, bombers, spotters, training aircraft.

By the end of the summer of 1944, in the Red Army Air Force units there were no more than 30 units of Pe-3 different variants, and not a single regiment was fully armed with them.

Mostly aircraft were used for visual and photographic reconnaissance. As before, the Pe-3 used the Air Force of the SF (95-IAP, 28-I ORAE).

Here, perhaps, more valuable is the work that was done in Irkutsk to bring the car to mind. Pe-3 was never completed, we admit, but many of the things that were used for the first time continued to work on other aircraft.


LTX Pe-3bis

Wingspan, m: 17,13
Length, m: 12,67
Height, m: 3,93
Wing area, square m: 40,80

Weight, kg
- empty aircraft: 5 815
- takeoff: 7 870

Engine: 2 x M-105RA x 1050 hp

Maximum speed km / h
- by the ground: 448
- at height: 527

Practical range, km: 2 000
Practical ceiling, m: 8 800

Crew, prs: 2

Armament:
- one 20-mm ShVAK gun and two 12,7-mm UBC machine guns offensive;
- one 12,7-mm machine gun UBK and one 7,62-mm machine gun ShKAS defensive;
- bomb load - 2 x 250-kg under the fuselage and 2 x 100 under the nacelles

Sources:
Alexander Medved, Dmitry Khazanov. Unknown Pe-Xnumx.
Andrey Morkovkin. Third pawn (proza.ru/2019/06/23/1114).
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  1. Amurets 14 November 2019 06: 03 New
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    Regarding the replacement of the radio station, there are several opinions. Morkovkin believes that everything is correct, since the Pe-3 was not a fighter of long-range escort, he did not need a long-range radio station and radio half-ammunition. You can read about it with him.
    I completely disagree with him. The aircraft was set to a flight range of 2000 + km, respectively, the combat radius was obtained somewhere in the region of 700-800 km.
    Although something began to appear about the PE-3 fighters, the author reports only about the fighting of the 95th IAP, but OMAG was formed on the basis of this regiment. "Convoy escort was a task of national importance, and to protect the ships from enemy torpedo bombers in the north, a separate naval air group (OMAG) was created from three regiments - 95, 13 and 121 IAPs, all on the Pe-3 and Pe-3bis. Https: // masterdl.livejournal.com/1019594.html
    Regarding the replacement of the radio station, there are several opinions. Morkovkin believes that everything is correct, since the Pe-3 was not a fighter of long-range escort, he did not need a long-range radio station and radio half-store. You can read about it with him. And here I don’t agree with Morkovkin: “Regarding the replacement of the radio station, there are several opinions. Morkovkin believes that everything is correct, since the Pe-3 was not a fighter of long-range escort, he did not need a long-range radio station and radio half-munition. read it.
    13 IAP was disbanded due to non-combat loss of most of the machines. A large group of regiment planes fell into a snow charge and scattered. Some of the crews managed to parachute or sit on their belly and successfully reached their own, the rest simply died in the north. The lack of decent navigation equipment on the standard Pe-3 made it almost impossible to land at night or in conditions of poor visibility, and the loss of the aircraft was inevitable .... "That's when a radio station and a radio meteorological reserve would be useful. A very good book about OMAG operations on PE-3 fighters and PE-3bis in the Northern Fleet, written by Pavel Tsupko. "Above the expanses of the northern seas."
    1. Alexey RA 14 November 2019 14: 34 New
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      Quote: Amurets
      A very good book about OMAG operations on the PE-3 and PE-3bis fighters in the Northern Fleet, written by Pavel Tsupko. "Over the expanses of the northern seas."

      Red book with a star on the cover, which shows the Pe-3 above the waves?
      Quite honest memoirs, which describe the disgusting conditions for the deployment of 13 IAPs on the Pe-3 - how experienced crews caved in only because the airfield was minimal in size and was practically not equipped for night landing. And fuel after patrolling or reconnaissance was enough up to his airfield.
      1. Amurets 14 November 2019 15: 45 New
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        Quote: Alexey RA
        Red book with a star on the cover, which shows the Pe-3 above the waves?

        Yes! He has two more books: “Dive-bombers” and “Torpedo bombers”
  2. Dooplet11 14 November 2019 07: 55 New
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    I completely disagree with him. The aircraft was set to a flight range of 2000 + km, respectively, the combat radius was obtained somewhere in the region of 700-800 km.
    - I do not agree with you and with the distinguished Amurts. And I agree with Morkovkin. At the time of creation modifications of the barrage interceptor the decision to replace the radio station with a lighter one is true. Most of the requested range in 2000 km was to be spent on patrolling the protected area. Accordingly, the radius of action was to be 100-150 km. Another question is that the subsequent change in the tasks solved by the aircraft changed the equipment requirements.
    1. Saxahorse 14 November 2019 23: 00 New
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      Quote: Dooplet11
      At the time of the creation of the modification of the hovering interceptor, the decision to replace the radio station with a lighter one is correct.

      From this dispute it is not entirely clear, but were these two radio stations, fighter and bomber - compatible? Was it just for reasons of weight that they changed or did it simplify communication with fighters?
      1. Dooplet11 15 November 2019 06: 39 New
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        You can easily find the answer to this question on the net (names of radio stations are indicated). Or in memoirs (find a couple of descriptions of the escort of bombers, though for the second half of the war, when the radio station on the fighter ceased to be exotic).
      2. Ua3qhp 15 November 2019 07: 54 New
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        RSB is compatible with RSI in the range of operating frequencies and type of modulation (From top to bottom, i.e. RSI cannot replace RSB). But the control of the SSR is more complicated, perhaps due to the exception of the radio operator, the radio station had to be replaced.
        1. Dooplet11 15 November 2019 08: 16 New
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          https://military.trcvr.ru/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Радиосвязь-в-Красной-Армии.pdf
          RSB-F ground (van) version of the RSB-bis. And RSI-4, according to the link, worked with RSB-F. Hence the answer (for Saxahorse) regarding the compatibility of RSB bis and RSI is obvious. )))
          1. Saxahorse 15 November 2019 22: 08 New
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            Quote: Dooplet11
            Hence the answer (for Saxahorse) regarding the compatibility of RSB bis and RSI is obvious. )))

            Not yet obvious. I just suspected the same thing that Sergey said a little higher. The then radio stations were very sensitive to tuning, and often required continuous adjustment during operation. It is possible that a bomber, having a dedicated radio operator, could use a more sensitive radio station. For fighters, for obvious reasons, the settings could be very rude for one-handed operation, so to speak.
            1. Dooplet11 16 November 2019 05: 57 New
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              A bit wrong. In telephone mode, they worked the same way. Even the settings panel is similar. And the power of the transmitted signal in this mode. But in telegraph mode (which RSI simply does not have), and which is intended mainly for long-distance communications, a radio operator is necessary. It is difficult to freeze the pilot. Here, indeed, one cannot do without a radio operator. And, if there is no radio operator, then the telegraph communication unit becomes superfluous. Although the pilot would have been able to work by telephone on the SSR, had the unit been moved to the cockpit. After all, they worked on RSI.
              1. Dooplet11 16 November 2019 08: 08 New
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                Clarification. MOT Pe-2 about RSB bis:


                The RSB-bis (transmitter unit with tuner panel and receiver unit) simply would not fit into the cockpit of the Pe-3.
                And to remake the RSB radio station, taking the control panel of the transmitter and receiver separately from it into the cockpit, for a few days allotted for the creation of the modification - I think it's unrealistic. Therefore, the RSB-bis and the radio chunks were removed, and the RSI-4 was replaced by the following in the pilot's seat:
                1. Saxahorse 17 November 2019 20: 37 New
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                  Yes, it seems. In addition, the indicated range of 100 km is clearly for the telegraph regime.
                  1. Dooplet11 18 November 2019 05: 12 New
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                    In addition, the indicated range in 100 km is clearly for the telegraph mode.
                    - telephone?
      3. Servisinzhener 17 November 2019 20: 33 New
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        There were. By the type of modulation (radiation), the operating range was to some extent overlapped.
        Radio Station
        Frequency range: 2,5-12,0 MHz
        Power: 20/7 W
        Type of radiation: A1 /A3
        Communication distance: 700/100 km
        Weight: 47 kg

        Radio station RSI-4
        The frequency range is 3,75 ... 5 MHz.
        Output power up to 3,5 watts.
        Type of work - only TLF (A3).
        The total weight of the radio station without a headset and antenna device is about 12,3 kg.
  3. The leader of the Redskins 14 November 2019 07: 59 New
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    Aviation is not my hobby and I, like most, simply knew about the existence of heavy fighters PE 3 / 3bis. Thank you for the work done and the coverage of the material.
    1. Dooplet11 14 November 2019 08: 22 New
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      Yes, thanks to Medved, Khazanov and Morkovkin. That's who exactly did the work and highlighted the material!
  4. hohol95 14 November 2019 08: 10 New
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    Technique - Youth 1991-01
    Victor DUDIN, Senior Lieutenant, Arkhangelsk
    Last flight Pe - 3
    In the early morning of November 5, 1942, two Pe-3 fighters, lieutenants Alexander Ustimenko and Viktor Gorbuntsov, took off from the Yagodnik airport, near Arkhangelsk.
    The leader was Ustimenko, as the most prepared and had combat experience, as evidenced by the Order of Lenin in his tunic. Together with him, the navigator, Lieutenant Kuzma Bantsev, and the passenger, the chief of staff of the White Sea Air Force of the Northern Fleet, Colonel Fedor Popov flew. He was to lead the actions of naval aviation against enemy ships, which appeared more and more often in our Arctic waters.
    .Up to a certain point on the route, the crew was not even supported by radio. But when it was installed, then almost immediately it was interrupted - forever ...
    For forty-six years, the mystery of the death of two combat aircraft remained unsolved. There was a lot of incomprehensibility here - after all, the flight of the crews of Ustimenko and Gorbuntsov was carefully prepared, all possible surprises were taken into account. One could only guess what could happen on the track, which lay over deserted places. After all, the engines of two cars could not suddenly refuse! An accident could have occurred in adverse weather conditions, and the control system had failed. But again, not on two machines at the same time!
    1. Aviator_ 14 November 2019 08: 28 New
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      As far as I remember, already in our time, after these two downed planes were in the tundra, military injuries were found on them, and later they found a German airfield in our Arctic region, where their fighters were based. I don’t remember where I read, it seems, in the same magazine.
      1. Amurets 14 November 2019 08: 47 New
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        Quote: Aviator_
        As far as I remember, already in our time, after these two downed planes were in the tundra, military injuries were found on them, and later they found a German airfield in our Arctic region, where their fighters were based. I don’t remember where I read, it seems, in the same magazine.

        It was so. Here is one about them, but the information is unofficial. https://zen.yandex.ru/media/rusblog/tainye-aerodromy-nacistov-na-territorori-sssr-5a55d928256d5cd4bfc9ed90
        And this is from VO: In the summer of 1989, in the shallow swamp in the Arkhangelsk region, fragments of the Soviet twin-engine fighter Pe-3 with the remains of the crew were accidentally discovered. A search for local historians in the archives showed that this plane was piloted by Lieutenant Ustimenko, who, together with the crew of his wingman, was considered missing since November 1942. Perhaps this would not be surprising - the downed planes were and will be for a long time to be found in a variety of places - if not for one strange circumstance: there were several thousand kilometers to the front line from here at that time, and the sides of the "pawn" were riddled cannon shells with a caliber of at least 30 mm. https://topwar.ru/33443-taynye-polety-lyuftvaffe.html
        1. bubalik 14 November 2019 14: 19 New
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          hi
          Lettom 1989 years in a shallow swamp in the Arkhangelsk region were accidentally discovered fragments of the Soviet twin-engine fighter Pe-3 with the remains the crew.

          this plane was piloted by Lieutenant Ustimenko

          ,, some kind of hat turns out request
          ,,, but what about the reburial in 1987? if there was nobody there.
          1. bubalik 14 November 2019 15: 04 New
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            ,,, I suppose that they were buried earlier, because the planes are still in 1950. found.
        2. Alf
          Alf 14 November 2019 18: 53 New
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          Quote: Amurets
          cannon shells with a caliber of at least 30 mm.

          And on what German fighter in the 42nd year there were 30-mm guns?
    2. Ros 56 14 November 2019 08: 37 New
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      Two cars can be covered at the same time in the event of a collision, which has repeatedly happened during flights by the formation due to air hooliganism, technical malfunctions or weather conditions.
      1. hohol95 14 November 2019 08: 44 New
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        Knocked them down! This is only the first of the articles in the journal Tech - Youth! The vehicles were found combat damage. And also the German airfield jump in our territory!
        1. Ros 56 14 November 2019 08: 57 New
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          What is combat damage? And whoever conducted the investigation, or maybe it was unprofitable for someone to show that the collision was accidental, but for such things, at that time, they were guilty, not guilty, they would have determined it in an instant. I do not say anything at all, I just say that everything could be. Especially in conditions when pilots did not count victories without official confirmation. The atmosphere of mistrust was in the army, they simply did not talk about it and do not tell us. I quite perceive it and all the same for me everyone who has visited the war, especially in those conditions, they are definitely heroes.
          1. hohol95 14 November 2019 09: 00 New
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            Read the AMURCA comment above! And try to find a magazine and read it! I pointed out - there were several articles by different authors!
        2. shasherin.pavel 14 November 2019 18: 47 New
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          We found a jump airfield near Kandalaksha with several Me-109 one standing now in Safonovo.
  5. Potter 14 November 2019 09: 33 New
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    In the appendix, as I recall, the Aviation and Cosmonautics magazine in the mid-1990s released a release on twin-engine fighters Pe-3 and Me-110. Thick enough, 70 pages large magazine format. Pe-3 and Pe-3bis are dedicated to half of this issue. A very detailed description of the creation of all modifications and options, production, combat use with a large number of illustrations and drawings. Unfortunately, this issue is in my country house, when I present it on Sunday, the relevance will already go away. But Morkovkin is not the first researcher of this topic.
    1. Undecim 14 November 2019 12: 42 New
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      This is a double number 5-6 for 1998.
      Opened with this pattern.

      The author is Candidate of Technical Sciences, employee of the Moscow Aviation Institute, aviation historian Vladimir Kotelnikov.
  6. Avior 14 November 2019 09: 40 New
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    I noticed that the spotlights on Pe-3 were not even tried to be set, as on Pe-2, which they used for the same purpose as Pe-3.
    1. Dooplet11 14 November 2019 10: 24 New
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      I noticed that the spotlights on Pe-3 were not even tried to be set, as on Pe-2, which they used for the same purpose as Pe-3.

      "Part of the Pe-3bis aircraft was converted into night-time interceptors equipped with Gneiss-2 radars and even underwing projectors." (http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/pe3bis.html)
      Photo Confirmation:

      1. Avior 14 November 2019 10: 38 New
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        You can read on the network that the use of fixed projectors did not work very well.
        As for Gneiss-2, it was adopted only in the summer of 1943, it was a meter radar, which was not very convenient for radar because of the range.
        http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/pe2gneys.html
        although there have been tests at the front before. In total, Gneiss-2 released a couple of hundred.
        It was used not only on the Pe-2/3, but also on the A-20. There were also several hundred Lendliz radar
        1. Dooplet11 14 November 2019 10: 40 New
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          You can read on the network that the use of fixed projectors did not work very well.

          I noticed that the spotlights they didn’t even try to put on Pe-3

          I mean, they tried to bet. And as shown, time has shown. wink
          1. Avior 14 November 2019 10: 57 New
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            In the photo, I honestly did not see a spotlight.
            Radar Antennas - Yes.
            I read the phrase that they put, but there she is casual.
            I read about the application on Pe2 in more detail.
            1. Dooplet11 14 November 2019 11: 52 New
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              In the photo, I honestly did not see a spotlight.
              - I honestly, too. But the very fact of the thought of using Pe-3 at night, confirmed by the installation of Gneiss (photo), makes the installation (at least an attempt) of a searchlight highly likely. After all, you will not shoot at Gneiss, this is not a sight. The goal must be seen in order to aim, and, therefore, it is necessary to illuminate.
              1. Avior 14 November 2019 11: 53 New
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                I read that the spotlight did not help much aiming, if it was necessary to shoot with the institution, it rather interfered.
                1. Dooplet11 14 November 2019 12: 04 New
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                  I agree, if with preemption, the target will come out of the beam motionless spotlights. But with night attacks, the most likely angle is from 0 to 1 / 4, while the lead is small in the distance of a direct shot.
    2. shasherin.pavel 14 November 2019 18: 53 New
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      Just the opposite. Near Moscow, two spotlights were placed on the Pe-3. If the air defense searchlights were captured by Junkers or Henkel, then the Pe-3 flew up blinded the enemy and opened fire. Serial landing gears were installed on the Pe-2, and no one canceled them on the Pe-3, since they were mounted in the wing. And the spotlights were placed on Pe-3 encore precisely for attacks at night.
  7. Pavel57 14 November 2019 10: 54 New
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    Refusal from the “Hundreds” as a fighter seems to be a mistake. As a dive player, the Ar-2 is still better.
    1. shasherin.pavel 14 November 2019 18: 56 New
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      Ap-2 was a conditional dive player, as was Junkers -88, whose dive was limited to 45 degrees. Pe-2, according to the recollections of pilots, could catch up with its own bomb and take it to its wing. Then the navigator gave a special command to the pilot and he led the wing away from the bomb.
    2. Alf
      Alf 14 November 2019 18: 56 New
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      Quote: Pavel57
      As a dive player, the Ar-2 is still better.

      Which is better?
      1. Pavel57 14 November 2019 19: 03 New
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        He carried more bombs, and could drop bombs that were inside the bomb bay. Really, it’s good if a third of the Pe-2 were used as dive-bombers. usually like ordinary bombers.
        1. Alf
          Alf 14 November 2019 19: 20 New
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          Quote: Pavel57
          Really, it’s good if a third of the Pe-2 were used as dive-bombers. usually like ordinary bombers.

          The use of aircraft as a dive or horizontal bomber depends on the training of the crew. Or do you think that with the same pilots (and where to get the others) would the AR-2 dive?
        2. Saxahorse 14 November 2019 22: 55 New
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          Quote: Pavel57
          He carried more bombs, and could drop bombs that were inside the bomb bay. Really, it’s good if a third of the Pe-2 were used as dive-bombers.

          And this Ar-2 was never used by anyone as a dive. This is a purely modern bike of our many alternative specialists. The Pe-2 had twice the margin of safety. The Ar-2 received brake flaps before the war, as did the DB-3 in the wake of interest in German dive bombers. An attempt to assign him such a task is more likely an attempt by Arkhangelsk to keep a hopelessly outdated Security Council in production. He had a version with a high margin of safety not inferior to the Pe-2 in strength. But crude, and its refinement refused. As a result, they completely abandoned the Ar-2.

          For good, it was necessary to bring the Tu-2 faster and not tinker with a hopelessly outdated SB system.
          1. Amurets 15 November 2019 00: 23 New
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            Quote: Saxahorse
            For good, it was necessary to bring the Tu-2 faster and not tinker with a hopelessly outdated SB system.

            On the Tu-2, in the original version, there were no AM-37 aircraft engines, it did not go into the series. Https: //military.wikireading.ru/16079
          2. Alf
            Alf 15 November 2019 16: 00 New
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            Quote: Saxahorse
            And this Ar-2 was never used by anyone as a dive.

            Maybe one of the alternatives will report at what maximum angle the AR-2 could dive?
            1. Serg koma 9 December 2019 17: 36 New
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              Quote: Alf
              Maybe one of the alternatives will report at what maximum angle the AR-2 could dive?

              Not an "alternative" lol but I inform -
              Indicators of dives conducted at state tests:
              - number of dives conducted - 25;
              - dive angles - 40 75 degrees;
              - speed before diving - up to 300 km / h;
              - typed altitude before diving - 4 kilometers;
              - exit speed from a dive - 550 km / h;
              - average overload - 4.5.
              - the time of the straight-line segment, on which the precision bombing of -9 seconds is provided.

              https://topwar.ru/13969-pikiruyuschiy-bombardirovschik-arhangelskogo-ar-2.html
  8. ccsr 14 November 2019 10: 58 New
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    Author:
    Roman Skomorokhov
    There were cases of field conversion of aircraft into reconnaissance aircraft by installing AFA-B aerial cameras on them.

    These were not cases, but a special modification, because the Pe-2 and Pe-3 were the main aircraft for long-range reconnaissance during the war years, which is described in detail in the memoirs of Hero of the Soviet Union I.I. Lezhov flying on them. Moreover, his reconnaissance regiment was directly operational subordinate to the General Staff of the General Staff, so the planes were specially converted into scouts, because it was the best aircraft for reconnaissance over long distances.

    1. shasherin.pavel 14 November 2019 19: 00 New
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      Shestakov (though on the Tu-2) mounted two cameras in the fuselage at an angle so that the inner edges of the frames overlap slightly on top of each other. In one flight it was possible to capture a double lane. Then all the scouts began to do this. Shestakov was the only one who photographed all the capitals of Europe.
      1. ccsr 14 November 2019 20: 05 New
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        Quote: shasherin.pavel
        Shestakov (though on the Tu-2) mounted two cameras in the fuselage at an angle so that the inner edges of the frames overlap slightly on top of each other.

        I.I. Lezhov in his memoirs describes that even before the war, after training in PO-2, they immediately switched to the SB, bypassing flights to R-5. During the war, several Yak-7 aircraft appeared in their squadron, which turned out to be unsuitable for long-range reconnaissance. And already in 1944, a new Yak-9DD aircraft was specially created for them, as it should be understood from this text:


        About Tu-2, I did not find anything in his memoirs, apparently this aircraft was not used in long-range reconnaissance regiments, although I do not know the exact information.
        Another interesting episode regarding the flight qualities of the Pe-2:
        1. Serg koma 9 December 2019 17: 53 New
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          Quote: ccsr
          apparently this aircraft was not used in long-range reconnaissance regiments, although I do not have accurate information.

          Information on Tu-2R / Tu-2S and 2nd DRAP
          June 5, 1942 the command of the Air Force through its representative at the factory number 166 turned to Tupolev:
          “The Air Force Command asks you to urgently study the issue of preparation 4 next Tu-2 vehicles for use as long-range reconnaissance vehicles with the installation of 2 AFA-Z-S cameras, an outboard gas tank and a Berezinsky machine gun to protect the upper hemisphere ..... "

          in Omsk, the following regiments were formed and sent to the front.
          2nd DRAP (Long-range reconnaissance air regiment) received four Tu-2, including three in the reconnaissance version. The regiment flew on the Pe-3, which acted as high-speed reconnaissance. For merits in carrying out especially important tasks of the High Command, the regiment received the rank of guards and became known as the 47th GDRAP .....

          In May 1943, the 132nd OBAP was taken to the rear. Ten Tu-2s from the regiment were transferred to the 47th GDRAP ....

          The 47th GDRAP flew the Tu-2 all of 1943, and then received the Tu-2S.

          The main command of the Red Army was preparing the next offensive, and the regiment received task to photograph Berlin. Crews flew to Berlin from an airfield located in the Smolensk area. The desired range was provided with the help of outboard fuel tanks. The task was completed by April 24, 1944. Flights over Berlin, the regiment resumed in the spring of 1945. These days, the Tu-2 collided with the German Me 262 fighter jets, but the Schwalbe were not able to shoot down a single Tu-2.

          "Tu-2." / War in the air No. 67./
  9. svp67 14 November 2019 11: 49 New
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    He was, he fought.
    Capacitive, clear and concise ... Thank you Roman.
    This is a “fighter” in history, and it remains unclear why, experiencing an acute shortage of heavy fighters throughout the war and knowing about the shortcomings of the Pe-3, they did not put Pe-2I into production, the machine was proposed and made at that time by the chief designer of the design bureau "Petlyakov" - Myasischev
    The use of very powerful offensive weapons was envisaged: two NS-45 guns with a supply of 45 shells per barrel were planned to be installed in the ventral battery ...
    .... Conducted training aerial battles with the captured Bf 109G-4 fighter convincingly demonstrated that in horizontal flight at an altitude of up to 7000 m, the "German" could never attack the Pe-2I, yielding it in speed. In the area of ​​the target, when the “pawn” performed the second approach, the “messer” only once was able to catch it in sight, and almost strictly from the tail, at the risk of running into Daewoo fire. To break away from the fighter by climbing or sloping planning for the Pe-2I proved to be unprofitable, since the Bf 109G-4 had the advantage in vertical speed and in accelerating characteristics. In general, the new Soviet aircraft showed undoubted “mosquito” abilities to evade combat with enemy fighters, which was supposed to reduce losses ...
    .... the maximum speed at ground level is 556 km / h, at the first border of altitude is 617 km / h and at the second border is 656 km / h, and the climb time of 5000 m was only slightly different from the calculated one - 7 minutes. The Pe-2I confidently took the first place in its class in terms of the set of flight performance characteristics ...
    1. Avior 14 November 2019 11: 59 New
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      Pe-2I is a bomber, fighter Pe-2VI.
      Motors M-105TsTs with superchargers, high-altitude version.
      IMHO, because the high-altitude version was unclaimed.
      1. svp67 14 November 2019 12: 11 New
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        Quote: Avior
        IMHO, because the high-altitude version was unclaimed.

        No, the third in the experimental Pe-2 series was precisely a heavy fighter, not high-altitude, with M-107 engines
        1. Avior 14 November 2019 13: 52 New
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          I don’t know if you believe Wikipedia, Pe2I
          . Pe-2I is an experienced double-day dive bomber. The tests were carried out in the spring of 1944. Engines VK-107A (1650 hp) with propellers VISH-107TL5 were installed on the aircraft. Fifteen gas tanks contained a maximum of 1844 liters of fuel. The shift of the wing of the new profile to the middle position and an increase in the fuselage (by 1 m in length and 300 mm in width) made it possible to place it in the FAB-1000M43 bomb bay (with a trimmed stabilizer). The chassis and equipment of the machine were changed. The armament included two UB heavy machine guns; one was fixed motionless in the bow, the second was located in the tail fairing and controlled remotely from the navigator’s cockpit. The maximum bomb load of the car increased to 3000 kg (and normal fell to 500 kg ...). The aircraft developed a speed of 656 km / h at an altitude of 5650 meters and was easier to pilot. Serially not built, made two prototypes.

          Maybe the mistake, of course, is the same
          motors 107, but two machine guns in 1944 for a fighter is nothing, obviously not a fighter.
          Perhaps the names are the same in different organizations.
          hi
          1. Amurets 14 November 2019 15: 59 New
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            Quote: Avior
            Maybe the mistake, of course, is the same
            motors 107, but two machine guns in 1944 for a fighter is nothing, obviously not a fighter.
            Perhaps the names are the same in different organizations.

            Different constructors. After the death of Petlyakov, the series was led by Myasischev.
            "In January 1944, by order of the NKAP ╧ 22, the construction of the third Pe-2I in the heavy fighter variant was specified. The use of very powerful offensive weapons was envisaged: two NS-45 cannons with a reserve of 45 shells per barrel were planned to be installed in the fuselage battery. In November In 1944, a cannon carriage and a stand for debugging the entire installation were made and sent to Moscow to plant No. 482. The chief designer decided not to build a third prototype aircraft, but to mount the battery on the main serial Pe-2I. However, immediately after manufacture, this machine became an object the meticulous attention of the factory’s military representatives которые 22, who revealed a lot of defects on it and demanded to be eliminated.None of the Pe-2Is released was brought to combat readiness until June 1945 and the Air Force was paid, so all further work on the fighter option gradually stalled.
            http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/pe2i2.html"
    2. Alf
      Alf 14 November 2019 18: 58 New
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      Quote: svp67
      why, experiencing the entire war, an acute shortage of heavy fighters and knowing about the shortcomings of the Pe-3, they did not let Pe-2I into production,

      Counter-question, where to get the reliable M-107?
    3. shasherin.pavel 14 November 2019 19: 03 New
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      Pa-3 was cut by Yak = 9D and Yak-9 DD, which were used as escort aircraft for bombers and reconnaissance aircraft.
  10. Undecim 14 November 2019 13: 11 New
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    And on August 2 on 1941, by the decision of the State Defense Committee, the design team of V. M. Petlyakov was tasked with creating a heavy fighter. Deadline ... August 6 1941
    That's right, 4 days were allotted to remaking a dive bomber back into a heavy fighter.
    But as usual, the task of the party and government in KB Petlyakova coped.

    In addition to the Petlyakov group, Pe-2 was converted into a fighter on an initiative basis by plant No. 22 named after S. Gorbunov, located in Moscow. During the first air raid on Moscow on July 22, 1941, about forty high-explosive and more than four hundred incendiary bombs hit the territory of the plant, several buildings were damaged, and 92 factory workers were killed.
    The option was designated as Pe-2I (pictured below).

    The main difference from the Pe-3 was a much more powerful weaponry and a larger fuel supply due to outboard gas tanks. Under the bomb bay mounted two ShVAK guns with ammunition of 160 shells per barrel. The nasal motionless machine guns Pe-2 ShKAS and BK survived, as did the navigational ShKAS. Instead of the fixed ShKAS in Pe-3 tail coca, the aircraft of plant No. 22 was equipped with a fixed BC mounted in the usual fairing of the LuPe-2 turret in place of the old BT. As on the Pe-3, the designers of plant No. 22 got rid of the electric bomb spreader, brake grilles, dive machine, radio half-moon, NKPB-4 night bomb sight, and replaced the radio station. There was no reservation in front, as on the Pe-3.
    By the time the Pe-2I tests were completed, the Pe-3 was already in production at the Air Force Research Institute, so they decided not to release the version of plant No. 22 to maintain the rate of aircraft production.
    1. vladcub 14 November 2019 18: 33 New
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      You and Amurets made great additions
  11. smaug78 14 November 2019 13: 23 New
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    In serious articles, their "disagree" and "I think" authors confirm with links to documents, memoirs, etc. ...
  12. Undecim 14 November 2019 14: 03 New
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    The experienced Pe-3bis differed from the serial Pe-3 in the following:
    Then the author hastened a little. Pe-3bis also had two options. The first, “Moscow”, which, according to the “Malenkov’s roar,” did not provide for reinforcing the reservation and included:
    - completely removed the glazing, which only interfered;
    - instead of the BK machine guns, two UBK machine guns (with 250 rounds per barrel) and a ShVAK cannon with ammunition 250 rounds were installed in the bow;
    - instead of the upper turret mount of the navigator TSS-1 with a ShKAS machine gun, a mobile unit with a UBT machine gun and 180 ammunition in a rotating turret was mounted; - - wing consoles equipped with automatic slats;
    - reduced the length of the lamp of the cockpit, and also moved forward by almost half a meter anti-skid frame;
    - the filling system for gas tanks with nitrogen was replaced with the so-called filling system for tanks with cooled exhaust gases of engines;
    - mounted anti-curtain curtains on all glass windows;

    The option was tested at the Air Force Research Institute, but did not go into series due to the evacuation of the plant.
    The second version of the Pe-3 bis appeared in December 1941, after the evacuation of the plant number 39 in Irkutsk.

    This is where armor appeared already, the weapons were also revised. It is this option that went into the series as Pe-3 bis.
  13. iouris 14 November 2019 16: 19 New
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    "I blinded him from what was."
    By the way, Pe-2, -3 are Soviet Bf-110 clones. And this shows how the Soviet aircraft industry developed.
    1. Potter 14 November 2019 18: 30 New
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      Nonsense. It is after reading Kotelnikov, the aforementioned double issue of Pe-3 and Me-110, that it comes to understanding that the genesis, design and history of aircraft are completely different. Quite the contrary, if the “hundred part” was created as a high-speed high-speed fighter, a fighter with strategic bombers, but became a dive pilot (which the Me-100 was not) and then a long-range fighter, then the Me-110 was created as a universal strike aircraft, a destructor, suffered a crushing defeat in the battle for England and only then had to become a night fighter, that is, he walked the path opposite the path of Pe-2/3.
    2. Alf
      Alf 14 November 2019 19: 02 New
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      Quote: iouris
      By the way, Pe-2, -3 are Soviet Bf-110 clones. And this shows how the Soviet aircraft industry developed.

      You are mistaken. PE-2 is a clone of the Frenchman Breguet-693. Two engines, two keels, a machine gun sticks out back, which means a complete copy. fool
    3. shasherin.pavel 14 November 2019 19: 11 New
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      A clone is a copy. And Pe-2 was redone in Pe-3 after they bought Me-1940 in 110. Just someone thought that we need twin-engine if there are no long-range single-engine fighters. When the Yak was lightened, he applied duralumin, then in the wings they got enough space for additional tanks and there were five of them. They got the Yak-9 D. But before the purchase of the Me-110 there was a twin-engine (weaving) fighter, in which the Pe-2 was little guessed.
      1. Alexey RA 14 November 2019 19: 23 New
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        Quote: shasherin.pavel
        And Pe-2 was redone in Pe-3 after they bought Me-1940 in 110.

        The GKO decree on remaking the Pe-2 into a fighter was dated August 02, 1941.
        Before the war, Petlyakov tried to do high altitude fighter with maximum use of serial Pe-2 units. But with the outbreak of war, work was curtailed.
      2. Serg koma 9 December 2019 18: 20 New
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        Quote: shasherin.pavel
        But before the purchase of the Me-110, there was a twin-engine (weaving) fighter, in which the Pe-2 was little guessed.
        Reply
        negative
        And “AK” is “StG 44”, and “March of Aviators” is “Horst Wessel” ... aren't you tired of looking for a “mote in the eyes of others”?
    4. Potter 14 November 2019 20: 47 New
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      And yet - just the dates: the first flight of the VI-100 on December 22, 1939. Start of serial production of PB-100 (Pe-2) June 23, 1940 When the Me-110 was purchased - in the fall of 1940!
      Well, a little touch - “weaving” had 2 pressurized cabins, which the Me-110 did not have.
    5. svp67 15 November 2019 02: 46 New
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      Quote: iouris
      By the way, Pe-2, -3 are Soviet Bf-110 clones.

      By the way, YOU ARE NOT RIGHT. These are different planes. If you compare the pawn with anyone, then with Yu-88. And even these planes are not "clones"
      1. Alf
        Alf 15 November 2019 16: 02 New
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        Quote: svp67
        If you compare the pawn with anyone, then with the Yu-88.

        Not certainly in that way. He could dive at an angle of up to 80 degrees, and the dive angle of the 88-th was limited to 45-degrees.
        1. svp67 15 November 2019 16: 50 New
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          Quote: Alf
          Not certainly in that way. He could dive at an angle of up to 80 degrees, and the dive angle of the 88-th was limited to 45-degrees.

          Me-110 and this could not. And there is something to compare
          1. Alf
            Alf 15 November 2019 23: 03 New
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            Quote: svp67
            Quote: Alf
            Not certainly in that way. He could dive at an angle of up to 80 degrees, and the dive angle of the 88-th was limited to 45-degrees.

            Me-110 and this could not. And there is something to compare

            Then it’s more logical to compare U-88 with TU-2.
            1. svp67 16 November 2019 04: 03 New
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              Quote: Alf
              Then it’s more logical to compare U-88 with TU-2.

              And were there versions of the Tu-2 in a fighter version? Yu-88 and Pe-2 were for sure, and they were used
              1. Alf
                Alf 16 November 2019 09: 05 New
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                Quote: svp67
                Quote: Alf
                Then it’s more logical to compare U-88 with TU-2.

                And were there versions of the Tu-2 in a fighter version? Yu-88 and Pe-2 were for sure, and they were used

                As far as I know, no. After the war, an experimental version of the TU-1 fighter was built, but it never went into production.
      2. Serg koma 9 December 2019 18: 40 New
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        Quote: svp67
        By the way, YOU ARE NOT RIGHT.

        Yes, everything is elementary: a person saw a silhouette relatively similar to 110, immediately the conclusion was "stolen from the" great nation "" ...
        The project of the Tu-2 bomber was developed in 1939, the first copy of the aircraft under the designation "103" was built by early January 1941.
        In addition to Pe, they also “stole” “Tu”, the silhouette is also similar, and there they copied “Condor” - where are we to the Lapotniks to the “great Aryans / Ukrainians / Galas / Britons, etc. wassat
  14. vladcub 14 November 2019 18: 24 New
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    “Malenkov, instead of planting, torturing and shooting” Roman, stop repeating liberal horror stories. G. M. was not a monster to immediately: torture and shoot.
    Actually, as I recall from history: Malenkov oversaw aviation and it is quite reasonable that the authors turned to him
    1. Alf
      Alf 14 November 2019 19: 03 New
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      Quote: vladcub
      Novel, stop repeating liberal horror stories.

      Well, how not to kick a dead lion?
    2. Pavel57 14 November 2019 19: 05 New
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      Malenkov was a very intelligent person.
  15. vladcub 14 November 2019 20: 58 New
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    Quote: Alf
    Quote: vladcub
    Novel, stop repeating liberal horror stories.

    Well, how not to kick a dead lion?

    Hope Roman Above This
  16. Dooplet11 15 November 2019 08: 26 New
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    The novel before the TTX Pe-3bis section posted this photo (as an illustration?):

    And again, it seems, he was mistaken. For a number of signs, this is Pe-3.
    And here is this photo:

    goes in the context of Pe-3 (without an "encore")
  17. dmmyak40 15 November 2019 23: 03 New
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    No drawings were made, all improvements were carried out locally. Battle collective farm.
    A strange statement ... It smacks of disrespect for people who have accomplished a labor feat. What collective farm? On the contrary, the highest skill!
  18. Jorka 17 November 2019 20: 21 New
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    +1
    But it’s interesting why the ShVAKs did not put 105 etozh into collapse, what kind of power would be especially for bombers. After all, 105 were intended for this. I could not find such information anywhere. Who knows, tell me?
    1. Serg koma 9 December 2019 19: 08 New
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      Quote: Jorka
      how powerful would be especially for bombers


      5ROB-132 battery under the wing of Pe-2

      Suspension RS-82 for firing back under the wing of the Pe-2.