Why Russia is not in a hurry to hold a meeting of the Norman Four

56

Why are the parties disadvantageous with the implementation of the Minsk agreements


The meeting of the Norman four has been postponed all the time mainly due to the failure by the Ukrainian side to impose preconditions imposed on it. Gradually, these conditions are met, while the Ukrainian side is constantly rushing to hold a meeting, while the Russian side is clearly not in a hurry and delays the meeting time for the Norman four. The Ukrainian leadership has repeatedly called the dates of the meeting, and Moscow every time denied this, explaining the unpreparedness of the parties for a fruitful discussion and adoption of the necessary decisions. Moscow and Kiev have good reasons for such actions.

The mechanism and sequence of implementation of the Minsk agreements are clearly spelled out in previously adopted documents. Nevertheless, Kiev did not fulfill its obligations and the Quartet’s meetings have not been held since the 2016 of the year, since the decisions of previous meetings by Ukraine were not implemented and there was no sense in holding them.



With the coming to power of Zelensky under the slogans of peace in the Donbas, there was hope that Ukraine would begin to fulfill them. Germany and France insisted on supplementing the agreements with the Steinmeier formula, which confirmed the previously adopted procedure for implementing the agreements. Moreover, Zelensky constantly emphasized that he was ready to comply with the agreements and was striving for peace in the Donbass. In fact, it turned out that behind these statements was a well-calculated puppeteer Zelensky game aimed at disrupting the negotiation process in the framework of the agreements.

It should be noted that the full implementation of the Minsk Agreements is unprofitable for none of the parties to the negotiation process, since they all have diametrically opposite goals.

The European Union took advantage of the conflict in the Donbass to introduce anti-Russian sanctions and pressure on Russia, and while it is ready to ease them somewhat, but not remove it completely, it still needs reason to put pressure on Moscow. By signing agreements, Russia froze the conflict, driving a splinter into the body of Ukraine and inhibiting its integration into Euro-Atlantic structures. In addition, the Russian leadership is well aware that, despite all the guarantees of Ukraine, Donbass even with a special status will be cleansed by Ukrainian radicals and supports the reintegration of Donbass into Ukraine purely formally.

The reintegration of Donbass with a special status brings Ukraine more problems than the current state, since the concept of a unitary nationalist state is collapsing and the Ukrainian elite does not want to launch this Trojan horse into its garden. Such reintegration is all the more completely useless for the republics; they want integration into Russia, and the implementation of agreements for them is similar to death. Officially, they support the agreement, but in fact, by their actions contribute to their breakdown.

All this suggests that all parties are in no hurry to implement the agreements and are looking for ways to delay the negotiation process. At the same time, it is necessary to find the culprit in the failure of the agreements, and the most likely candidates are now Ukraine and Russia, who seek to blame each other.

Ukraine only plays the role of a peacemaker


Russia to take advantage of Ukraine took advantage of its non-fulfillment of the three agreed conditions: the withdrawal of troops at three points, the signing of the Steinmeier formula and the approval of the agenda and the final document of the meeting. Ukraine, having played a performance as if attempting a coup d'etat by the Nazis on the day of the UPA celebration and blocking the withdrawal of troops in Zolotoy, demonstratively completed all this. There was only one point left - the coordination of the meeting agenda and the final document, where the positions of Russia and Ukraine fundamentally diverged.

It should be noted that Zelensky did not become president thanks to his talents, but the Americans and Kolomoisky beautifully brought him to power. Considering that he is a zi-chairman in the post of president, it remains for him to implement not what he wants, but the specific instructions of his curators. Kolomoisky and the Americans absolutely do not need a cessation of war, the Americans use the Donbass to pressure Russia, tighten the sanctions regime against it and as a mechanism to strengthen the contradictions between Russia and the European Union, and the Kolomoisky war is needed as a way to build up their capital and hold Zelensky in their hands.

In this regard, Zelensky initially played the role of the peacekeeper assigned to him, seeking to end the war in the Donbass. With the rise to power, his rhetoric became more and more tightened, he and representatives of his team began to put forward conditions for the implementation of the Minsk Agreements, which were unacceptable for the participants in the negotiations, which actually led to the breakdown of the agreements.

Recently, they have directly stated that their main goal at the Quartet meeting is to revise the Minsk agreements and propose a new format of negotiations already on Ukrainian terms. For all the impudence and futility of such a position, there is a reason for it, since Zelensky’s main task at this stage is to put Russia in a situation where it refuses, as it were, the peace proposals of Ukraine and becomes guilty of disrupting the negotiation process. At the same time, Ukraine wants peace, and Russia wants an aggressor!

Therefore, Zelensky, more precisely, the Americans and Kolomoisky standing behind him, is so keen to hold a meeting as soon as possible, where Russia will be exposed to unacceptable conditions, she will refuse to fulfill them, and she will be accused of aggressive politics and the need to strengthen sanctions.

There will be no result at the meeting of the Norman four


The Russian leadership has probably long ago calculated the miserable attempts of Zelensky and his curators and are preparing to confront them, relying on Germany and France. Russia has much more good reason to accuse Ukraine of trying to disrupt the Minsk format.

Russia cannot refuse to meet, it will be regarded and presented as a desire to continue the war, so the meeting will still take place, and now convincing countermeasures and arguments must be prepared in Russia to prove Ukraine’s guilt in disrupting the negotiation process.

By joint efforts, Ukraine will not be allowed to bury the Minsk Agreements, it is now unprofitable for the European Union and Russia, therefore they will seek a compromise to formally preserve them. Nobody is going to fulfill the agreements in full, it is unprofitable for everyone. In the near future, the political dances of the parties around the agreements will continue, their necessity and lack of alternative will be proved, while all will use them as a screen for the realization of their interests.

The meeting of the Norman Quartet will nevertheless take place; all parties are interested in such a meeting, but they set themselves different goals. The meeting is likely to end in fixing disagreements on key issues and the need to continue this hopeless cause. Under pressure from Germany, France and Russia, it may be possible to agree on the withdrawal of armies along the entire front line not by one kilometer, but by 15 km from each side, as was originally written in the Minsk Agreements, which will create a security zone of 30 km wide and will guarantee ceasefire with a possible freezing of the conflict for an indefinite time, like the Transnistrian.

Naturally, under the pressure of the radicals and the oligarchy, Ukraine will resist, and here everything will depend on the position of the USA, whether or not they are ready to seek common ground and establish relations with Russia. The position of Ukraine here will not interest anyone, what they order, it will carry out.

The full implementation of the Minsk Agreements with the reintegration of Donbass into today's Ukraine, even on the conditions specified in the agreements, is in principle impossible, time has already been irretrievably lost, even if a ceasefire were achieved - it would already be a success.

Only tectonic shifts in Ukraine itself or in countries determining its development vector can resolve the Ukrainian conflict. Hard times await Ukraine, it will either return to its native Russian civilization, or cease to exist, and pieces of this artificial state formation will disperse to different countries in accordance with their ethnicity.
56 comments
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  1. +5
    14 November 2019 15: 12
    The meeting of the Norman four has been postponed all the time, mainly due to failure by the Ukrainian side to impose preconditions imposed on it

    Zelenskiy is not in the four, but the six on the errand, which does not solve anything. He did not and does not have real power. "Troika" knows this very well, so it does not want to waste time on "blah blah blah".
    1. +1
      14 November 2019 15: 21
      I’ll add a little bit, the main guides of the non-brothers, now they themselves feel a loose chair ..... the world is still far from unipolar, as mattresses would like .....
    2. +2
      14 November 2019 16: 39
      The main reason for all these manipulations in Ukraine is to disrupt the supply of Russian gas to Europe. In the short run.
      1. -3
        14 November 2019 18: 29
        Quote: Sergey39
        Russian
        ? belay
        1. 0
          14 November 2019 20: 30
          The tablet is old, the letters do not always work.
          1. +2
            14 November 2019 21: 46
            Quote: Sergey39
            The tablet is old, the letters do not always work.

            hi
        2. The comment was deleted.
    3. 0
      14 November 2019 18: 41
      Quote: Amateur
      on "blah-blah-blah" does not want to waste time.

      Stopudovo.
      But here, Mr. Kolomoisky gives out foams in the style of Zhirinovsky, only yellow-blaktynye. Volfovich tensed ...
  2. -19
    14 November 2019 15: 15
    Why is Russia in no hurry to hold a meeting of the Norman four?
    because she is interested in prolonging this conflict until she returns to Ukraine in her orbit ...
    and spit on the inhabitants of ldnr
    1. +6
      14 November 2019 15: 29
      Why is Russia in no hurry to hold a meeting of the Norman four?
      because it is interested in prolonging this conflict


      you forgot to shout SUGS !! 1 and straighten the pan with a cockade forward
      I need permissions to ban, the site will then lose in views, but it will be cleaner

      and spit on the inhabitants of ldnr

      after this, your fan should freeze over the amount of tension on its blades
      Everyone is interested in prolonging the conflict, except for Russia and normal citizens of Ukraine. Russia loves to trade with Ukraine, not to fight - that’s why Russia doesn’t come to war, but sells gas / electricity / fuel / coal / fuel for nuclear power plants to the Ukrainians and so on, from toothpaste to sweets

      Russia does not need to fight in order for Ukraine to be in its orbit. Do you understand? All energy in Ukraine is tied to Russia, its track is even tied to Russia. She is already in our orbit. It is these warlords who are trying to jump off the Russian orbit with their war - but it is futile, it costs like a few Ukraine for money, if done wisely, and not like Ukrainian miracle government men
      1. -2
        14 November 2019 22: 42
        Quote: s-t Petrov
        Russia loves to trade with Ukraine, not to fight - that’s why Russia doesn’t come to war, but sells gas / electricity / fuel / coal / fuel for nuclear power plants to the Ukrainians and so on, from toothpaste to sweets

        hard to believe.
        There were so many trade wars. And cheese and oilseeds, and sausage ..
        and candy too!
        So Ukraine buys fuel (cheaper), but with toothpastes and sweets it's over. We curtailed the import of Red October and Babaevsky, perhaps from the Russian on the shelves you can only find Pearls and Nevsky cosmetics (but the latter produces its products in the Dnieper)
        so that $ 6 billion is buying fuel in the Russian Federation, and 3 billion rubles of the Russian Federation is buying cars, engines, some food and raw materials in Ukraine ..
        both countries put an end to sweets during the candy war.
        Our countries are competitors. And they apply very low methods of struggle (state sanctions and media stuffing about competitors) to state import bans!
        1. +1
          15 November 2019 10: 40
          Quote: Antares
          So Ukraine buys fuel (cheaper)

          Who?
          Quote: Antares
          Our countries are competitors.

          )))) I wonder what?
      2. 0
        15 November 2019 18: 00
        What trade are you talking about?
        Foreign trade in goods with Russia declined in the first quarter of 2019.

        The fall amounted to 11% and now this figure is $ 2,339 billion, according to the website of the National Bank of Ukraine.

        So, over this period, exports of goods to the Russian Federation decreased by 16% to $ 595 million, imports - by 9%, to $ 1,744 billion.

        But trade with the EU countries grew by 10% to $ 9,505 billion. Exports of goods grew by 6% to $ 4,318 billion, imports - by 14%, to $ 5,187 billion.

        And it is not mentioned China
        P.S. watch more news - you will know everything from the right angle!
    2. +1
      14 November 2019 15: 32
      Nikolay! Russia WAS interested in returning to orbit, but the train left. With the advent of Zelensky, the return of Ukraine to the Russian elite became disastrous.
      1. +2
        14 November 2019 17: 26
        Quote: mikh-korsakov
        With the advent of Zelensky, the return of Ukraine for the Russian elite became disastrous

        Like, will he sell everything in general, and the reintegration of Ukraine will require such a huge amount of money that even the Russian "elites" will have nothing left?
        Reasonably.

        In general, Ukraine is rather a blessing for the Russian "elites". Shows how not to do laughing
        1. +2
          14 November 2019 18: 46
          Quote: Spade
          Like, he’ll sell everything

          The term "sell out" is not appropriate here. Rather - "give". For debts.
          And from "everything" only the earth actually remained. More precisely, the matter is only for legal legalization, since agricultural land has actually been sold.
    3. 0
      15 November 2019 10: 41
      Quote: nikolai.kolya
      and spit on the inhabitants of ldnr

      It would not care would not help us.
      1. +1
        15 November 2019 12: 22
        help so as not to die?
        what are these tricks to? they have already voted for accession, as well as the Crimea. So what?
        afraid of sanctions? do not tell my iskander !!!
        1. -1
          15 November 2019 16: 32
          Quote: nikolai.kolya
          help so as not to die?

          The standard of living in LDNR is not lower than in dill, the only difference is that they shoot.
          Quote: nikolai.kolya
          they already voted to join

          There was no referendum on accession; there was independence.
          Quote: nikolai.kolya
          what?
          afraid of sanctions?

          In geopolitics, one must play subtly, and not fly headlong over the first cry.
          1. +1
            15 November 2019 16: 36
            after it was subtly played with the Crimea, there is nothing to fear from LDNR. all the more so how many Russian-speaking people died in Crimea and how many in ldnr?
            take off your pink glasses ....
            you can attack, defend, hide behind a pawn, and finally you can sacrifice - a universal piece, what can I say .... sorry for you ...
  3. +1
    14 November 2019 15: 19
    The Norman format was postponed, until the election of another president of Ukraine, who will execute it.
  4. +4
    14 November 2019 15: 21
    All this "Norman Four" strongly resembles Krylov's fable "Quartet" ... Both in quantity and quality ...
  5. +2
    14 November 2019 15: 23
    Hard times await Ukraine, it will either return to its native Russian civilization, or cease to exist, and pieces of this artificial state formation will disperse to different countries in accordance with their ethnicity.
    The prospect, of course, is deplorable. And at the moment, it seems the second option is being viewed. The first in the current situation has virtually no options. Sorry, but not fate.
    1. +2
      14 November 2019 16: 20
      Quote: tihonmarine
      The prospect, of course, is deplorable. And at the moment, it seems the second option is being viewed.

      After the Rada adopted the "Law on the Sale of Land" in the first reading, it seems that there will be nothing there. Already protesters against the sale of land, the Ukrainian police dispersed with truncheons. On the news, they showed it on TV.
  6. +7
    14 November 2019 15: 24
    The implementation of the Minsk agreements Ukraine has not fulfilled .. the meaning of that meeting, in the Norman format.
  7. +6
    14 November 2019 15: 26
    Quote: Atlant-1164
    Ukraine failed to implement the Minsk Agreements ..

    is it like morning money, and evening chairs?)
  8. +3
    14 November 2019 15: 38
    Yes for ... Is it already about hohland
    1. +1
      18 November 2019 05: 58
      that's for sure..... hi
  9. 0
    14 November 2019 15: 56
    Quote: nikolai.kolya
    Why is Russia in no hurry to hold a meeting of the Norman four?
    because she is interested in prolonging this conflict until she returns to Ukraine in her orbit ...
    and spit on the inhabitants of ldnr

    Svidomye, as always, all twist and twist. For Russia in 2014 it was not difficult to pick up the whole East and South of Ukraine, but economically could not digest new territories. Crimea alone was worth what. Now the time has come, to go under the knife with the pan and knife and the Ukrainians themselves will do it. Hence the words of Beni Kolomoisky. Look how the brackets are tearing at the pan-head. And then Russia will take its own.
  10. +4
    14 November 2019 16: 06
    Russia is simply obligated to stop participating in ultimatum negotiations when it is charged with some actions that are not officially confirmed. State structures are obliged to minimize diplomatic relations with a regime (at least in memory of their ancestors), which supports the frank lackeys of fascism and imposes its nationalism. Not a single branch of Sberbank should be there, not a single bank with state participation, not a single joint venture ... Until the complete cure for insanity. Not one mug physiognomy should not flicker on Russian screens. Us army, and forget them. I really hope that the time will come when all this insanity will end, when the villains will work hard at GUFSIN enterprises, until they forget the words of their calls, when
    pieces of this artificial state formation will disperse to different countries in accordance with their ethnicity.
  11. -1
    14 November 2019 16: 22
    Not Russia, but RF-Russia. A meeting with a clown, all the more very promising, whatever you call her, will be a laughing stock.
    1. +3
      14 November 2019 18: 04
      Quote: iouris
      A meeting with a clown, all the more very promising, whatever you call her, will be a laughing stock.

      The pig was recognized as the "best choice", they handled, they did business. Why is a clown worse?
      1. +2
        14 November 2019 22: 46
        Quote: Karabin
        The pig was recognized as the "best choice", they handled, they did business. Why is a clown worse?

        he is not a partner. Not an investor. What to meet with him, if he is a non-systemic player? *
        His gunpowder was on the board. Despite the formal course against the Russian Federation, he conducted business exclusively with the Russian Federation.
        So he is his own for the Russian elite.
        1. -1
          15 November 2019 13: 12
          Quote: Antares
          He conducted business exclusively with the Russian Federation.

          What kind of gunpowder enterprises do business with the Russian Federation besides Roshen?
          Quote: Antares
          So he is his own for the Russian elite.

          What are you? Is it his own for bankers whose branches in dill he closed?
          1. +3
            15 November 2019 13: 24
            Quote: Sergey1987
            What kind of gunpowder enterprises do business with the Russian Federation besides Roshen?

            Poroshenko’s enterprises not only weakened due to the war of a competitor (Conti), but also decently profited from supplies directly
            But in the energy sector, having so increased the import of Russian coal, which has never been imported ....
            1. -1
              15 November 2019 16: 34
              Quote: Antares
              Poroshenko’s enterprises not only weakened due to the war of a competitor (Conti), but also decently profited from supplies directly

              You did not answer the question.
              Quote: Sergey1987
              What gunpowder enterprises do business with the Russian Federation besides Roshen?

              Quote: Antares
              But in the energy sector, having so increased the import of Russian coal, which has never been imported ....

              It is not gunpowder structures that import and LDNR coal is imported))))) Or do you seriously believe that you are being transported from Kuzbass?
      2. 0
        15 November 2019 23: 21
        Poroshenko at least had a track record in public policy, and a clown is a clown and will remain a clown: twenty years - no strength, no wait - no, forty years - no mind, no wait - no. He already said everything. What else can you talk about with him? Let him continue to perfect his exertions with the piano alone.
  12. +1
    14 November 2019 16: 29
    The time has not yet come to meet, maybe after the New Year holidays, or maybe after March 8th. fellow what lol
  13. 0
    14 November 2019 17: 10
    The article is curious, but in some places the author fundamentally does not understand the situation. Given how many weapons and people who know how to handle them in LDNR now, the arrival of Bandera to clean them is just ridiculous. These heroes can ride on the Maidan, but only for the money, looting at the block - posts - yes. But to go under the bullets - I'm sorry, it's easier to go to Poland for strawberries, or to Portugal for oranges.
    1. 0
      16 November 2019 05: 00
      do you think there are many normal people left - without a status without a passport without a future ... but would you yourself wish to live in that ldr?
      1. 0
        16 November 2019 11: 22
        Compared with banderland, LDNR lives quite normally. A simple example - the price of gas for the population per cubic meter - LDNR - 80 kopecks., Banderland - 6,8 UAH. In anticipation of winter - the numbers are very sensitive.
        1. +1
          16 November 2019 14: 33
          that there that people are trying to survive, I don’t want to start an empty discussion. the only thing obvious to me is that LDNR is held hostage to the situation and if tomorrow Kiev announces the price tag for the Crimea, the Kremlin will give the Separs without hesitation and the Skabeyev nightingales will decorate it in a beautiful frame with patriotic sauce
          1. -1
            16 November 2019 15: 59
            I think that VV will not give them up, simply because there is nothing to offer Banderland. What is so tasty and interesting that the pigs can offer Putin? Even if Kuev tomorrow recognizes the transfer of Crimea to Russia, do you think something will change? Sanctions were imposed by the United States and Geyropa, not Banderlande. For them, this is just an excuse, there would be no Crimea and Donbass, sanctions would be imposed because of Syria or Libya. Again, Donbass is a convenient lever to put pressure on the Geyropa.
            1. 0
              16 November 2019 17: 41
              Yes, it's all clear global games and so on no one argues. the woods are cut down as grilled by Visarionich .... we started for certain people who were lucky to live there at that time, like entering an institute in life in a republic with no status ... not only for 80 kopecks at the stove to bask ...
              1. 0
                16 November 2019 17: 59
                The essence of the problem is not 80 kopecks, but the fact that the standard of living in LDNR is gradually improving, while in Banderland it is getting worse. I’m not talking about Crimea at all. Therefore, it makes no sense to return to the Banderland. And adequate people in the rest of the territory say that it is better with Russia.
  14. -2
    14 November 2019 17: 19
    Quote: Sergey39
    The main reason for all these manipulations in Ukraine is to disrupt the supply of Russian gas to Europe. In the short run.

    I think the other way around. Frosts have already begun, a new transit contract has not been signed. Ukraine wants to push a new gas agreement in negotiations (with the help of the West). To get support from them, they still have many complaints, from cheap gas to billion fines. One for one is somehow not comme il faut. hi
  15. 0
    14 November 2019 18: 37
    No one to talk about
  16. 0
    14 November 2019 19: 42
    The topic of "peacekeepers" will be discussed. Not without it. Here Russian diplomacy wants to save face to the maximum. Mistakes and mistakes of the past must be corrected. "The crisis of the identity of Russian society" (Great Russians, Little Russians, Belarusians) is brewing. In addition to successes in the SAR, this success, if this success actually turns out to be a success, I’m all for, will not save you from the crisis. And Victoria, Victoria - the unity of Little Russians, Great Russians, Belarusians and indigenous peoples living on the territory of Russia - this is Victoria, Victoria, which is expected in Russia, waiting like a hungry piece of bread. Victoria is moral, Victoria is not (s) compromise,
    Victoria, who does not want mercy on the fascists, corrupt "reformers by Western standards."
  17. -1
    14 November 2019 22: 41
    Ukrainians recognize only one way to "execute" Minsk "- the destruction of the Donbass.
    1. +2
      14 November 2019 23: 39
      In the cities of Little Russia, Novorossiya (temporarily occupied territories) in 2016, 2017 people went out, even if there weren't many of them, but they went out on May 9 and said: "We will not forgive Odessa." They are heroes Ukrainians (Little Russians)! But about others they ripple - they ripple out of Banderlog, VFU is a different topic, and about those who have a hut on the edge, and other figures who were "beaten a little with a belt" - these are definitely enemies of Novorossiya (Donbass). And how many people are in the dungeons of the Gestapo (SBU)? And we have not heard about the active work of the Russian consulate in search and rescue. Here is the main "hitch". The journalist was saved - that's good. And other citizens of the Russian Federation, Ukraine. No, you forgot? Then why was it necessary in 2014 to trumpet in a political show that the militias are great, "hurray to the volunteers from the Russian Federation" - the worthy descendants of the winners of 1945. And suddenly "silence", and other people cease to resist fascism in the temporarily occupied territories, because there is no replenishment of the underground, where there is a total (partial liquidation) of the field commanders of the "Petliurites" (acts of intimidation), where the work of our consulates in the territory temporarily bondage to "European values"? This is the crisis - "The crisis of the identity of the Russian society" (Great Russians, Little Russians, Belarusians). The help that is now being provided to New Russia, Little Russia is not enough, it is, but not enough. If suddenly the combat DRGs of the special forces of the Russian Federation suddenly jump out under the noses of the Banderlog in Kiev and everyone ...
      I'll be happy . If in the near future there will be no cardinal changes, changes in relation to our territories (Little Russia, New Russia, etc.) - the fallen will not forgive us for this. And Victoria’s 75th anniversary of fascism will not be dismissed.
  18. 0
    14 November 2019 23: 02
    Under pressure from Germany, France and Russia, it may be possible to agree on the re-establishment of armies along the entire front line not by one kilometer, but by 15 kilometers on each side, as was originally written in the Minsk agreements, which will create a security zone 30 km wide and will guarantee ceasefire with a possible freezing of the conflict for an indefinite time, like the Transnistrian.

    ceasefire and freezing of the conflict without lifting the sanctions against the Russian Federation with a reduction in military spending — Ukraine is very beneficial. Consider 5% of GDP saved.
    I do not think that the Russian Federation would agree with this.
    The positions of the Russian Federation are understandable: they should legalize Crimea (or minimize sanctions for it and the Ordlo) and push the Ordlo to the content of Ukraine with full control of the latter.
    It is profitable to exchange it for the Crimea. And a gas contract.
    So if freezing, then the position of Ukraine is more profitable. Naturally, with the preservation of basic sanctions (refinancing of the Russian Federation in Western banks and basic sanctions)
    At the same time, Ukraine does not want and will not take the gray zone with Russian control for maintenance. It will be enough to limit ourselves to what is now (payment of social payments when traveling to a controlled part of Ukraine) - benefits, pensions and free supply of electricity and water (there, of course, astronomical debts about ORDLO are not paid to suppliers). Gas, it’s good that they proved that Gazprom at its own expense delivers to ORDLO without the control of Ukrainian partners.
    The parties are tired of financial losses. Some are strangled by sanctions, others by an expensive army and problems with the war. Still others are tired of the first and second women. Moreover, the existing border order has been violated.
    Everyone wants solutions at the expense of others.
    It will not be so.
    Only tectonic shifts in Ukraine itself or in countries determining its development vector can resolve the Ukrainian conflict. Hard times await Ukraine she will either return to her native Russian civilization, or cease to exist, and pieces of this artificial state formation will disperse to different countries in accordance with her ethnicity.

    Ukrainians have changed so much in Ukraine itself and its attitude to the Russian Federation as a state (not to Russians or Russian citizens, but specifically to the Russian state and its policies). And not for the better.
    And about the collapse Apukhin specifically inserted. It so caresses the ears of cheers to the patriots.
    Collapse, freezes, Maidan, People's Republics, Russia wines ... in short ..
    in the yard 2019! For the sake of the gray zone, the people no longer trust either Russia or the Russian representatives!
    To be killed by both of them, and they would live without a homeland, without perspective, and to the sounds of guns and shells.
    Better bad Ukraine than what 1/3 of the region has turned into ...
    hostages of politicians.
    1. +1
      14 November 2019 23: 48
      If in the near future there will be no cardinal changes, changes in relation to our territories (Little Russia, New Russia, etc.) - the fallen will not forgive us for this. And Victoria’s 75th anniversary of fascism will not be dismissed.
  19. -1
    15 November 2019 00: 57
    TO THIS HEAD OF GREAT POWER
    to meet an impotent puppet who doesn’t control not only the country, even “her” quasi-party and her KHRYAK “lackey soros”, even the street under the windows of her office ???
  20. 0
    15 November 2019 07: 28
    The most correct solution in this situation is the separation of forces by 15 km from each side, because attacks and provocations continue. People are dying, and this is the main condition for the Minsk agreements and the condition for meeting in the Norman format. When the shelling and the presence of gangs in the border zone are excluded, we can consider point-by-point issues of discussion of the four at the meeting and Ukraine’s readiness to implement Minsk -2 agreements in full, but Russia will only have Lavrov
  21. +1
    15 November 2019 12: 07
    In Ukraine, the former "brothers", organized crime groups, first disguised themselves as the security services of the oligarchs, and then covered themselves with ideology, allegedly they are nationalists, for Ukraine. In fact, bandits - they are bandits. They cannot bring any benefit to their country.
    But the "point of no return" has already been passed. There is no one to pacify them, drive them "under the plinth", bring them to their senses.
    Ukraine will default, stop paying the military and the police. The gang war will begin. Regions and regions will begin to separate, they will stop paying taxes to the center. The gangs will collect money from the people and live on this. All the rich will dump. Many will flee to Russia and Poland.
    When the mess begins to bother Europe, UN forces will be brought into Ukraine. Share responsibility areas. They will guard the transit pipe.
    Everyone will not give a damn about Ukrainians.
    Here is my 5 year forecast. What to do? Think for yourself ...
  22. 0
    15 November 2019 13: 19
    Is it really necessary for Russia to become a first-year student who, with a shiver in his chleslah, hurries to a date with a burnt aunt, on whom there is nowhere to put a sample, in the hope of getting at least her favorable look. Well, about a first-year student (after all, "Russia" is a feminine word), I will keep silent, because today she certainly should not rush to a meeting with a "wise experience" teacher.
  23. 0
    15 November 2019 19: 27
    Ukraine is just a stick for whipping. Everyone uses it, including Russia. This is normal, because the non-brothers themselves took on this role. So be it. The bad thing is that Russia managed to level off the West’s actions at that international level due to the rash actions of Ukraine, but inside the country we are told that they are brothers to us, despite all their bad deeds. In a normal family, not like in the West, usually for bad behavior, children are punished, sometimes harshly, but for the benefit of the punishable. Many went through this and are grateful to their relatives that they were instructed in time. But we, inside the country, are forced to treat our lost relatives with kindness and understanding, who sometimes throw mud at us to the detriment of our own population. This is bad. Ukraine has earned in full all that is being done to it, but the Russians should not pay for it.