What society did Stalin create

What society did Stalin create

Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin kisses the “Sword of Stalingrad” at the awarding ceremony in the conference hall of the Soviet embassy during the Tehran Conference. Before I.V. Stalin is the Prime Minister of Great Britain Winston Churchill. To the right of Stalin is People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs of the USSR V.M. Molotov.


The red emperor. Stalin gave rise to the formation of a new civilization and society. In the USSR-Russia, a society of knowledge, service, and creation was created. It was a civilization of the future.

Stalin - the leader-priest, creating a new society and culture


When you watch films of the Stalin era, you pay attention to the fact that the heroes of that time are very different from the current ones. This is a completely different level. Heroes of the Soviet era are filled with bright energy, these are creators, creators, teachers, engineers, scientists, discoverers, warriors. They do not have a disease of the era of consumption, the “golden calf”. In the first place, people of that great era have completely different values. First of all, serving the Soviet society, the Motherland, the accumulation of comprehensive knowledge and creation. This is a society of knowledge, service and creation. Our modern society is a copy of the Western society (which has become global) of consumption and self-destruction.

Thus, despite the intensive construction of new churches, mosques and other religious buildings, modern Russia is very much inferior in morality and spirit to the Stalinist Union. It is enough to recall your experience in communicating with front-line soldiers or rear workers, people who lived at that amazing time, when the children of peasants became marshals, designers and aces pilots. These are simple, bright and strong people. I recall Lermontov’s words: “Yes, there were people in our time, Not that the current tribe: Heroes - not you!”

How did Stalin manage to create such a society?


By the time the Stalinist course began, Russian (Soviet) society was very sick, disfigured. In fact, these were the remains of the destroyed "old Russia" of the 1913 model of the year. These debris and debris did not interact well or barely with each other. Moreover, they had directly opposite interests. In particular, the smoldering war between the city and the village, which was ready to become a full-scale second peasant war and finish off Russia. There were also many conflicts within the city and the village. So, there were contradictions between the new, red bureaucracy, the NEPman (the new bourgeoisie) and the bulk of the semi-impoverished population; the contradictions between the fists and the peasant poor; between the surviving layer of "former" - qualified specialists, the intelligentsia and the masses of the semi-literate population, etc.

But even this was not the worst. The catastrophe of the 1917 of the year and the subsequent turmoil destroyed morality, work ethics, the church, which, even as a screen, hid the shortcomings of society, was almost bold (a significant part of the society, even under the Romanovs, turned away from the church, which lost the fiery spirit of truth). Society has become accustomed to death, violence, expropriations, and has become unaccustomed to creative work. Production activity was now seen as hard labor, excessive labor service. Productive daily labor, observance of social moral standards, and internal culture were destroyed. For most of the population, the internal regulators of public life have disappeared. The man was now ready for anything, there were no internal prohibitions. It is enough to recall the experiments of part of the Soviet “creative” intelligentsia in the 1920-s with “free love” (even before the sexual revolution in the West in the 1960-s). Therefore, society, after the civilizational catastrophe of 1917 of the year, could not be returned to work and creation without violence. This is the phenomenon of Stalin's “purges” and repressions, which were generally purifying and led to the creation of a stronger and healthier society.

Materialization of the new reality meant not only the creation of a material foundation (factories, factories, collective farms, schools, laboratories, institutes, etc.), but the creation of a new society. Stalin understood that it was impossible to create a new society without giving him a common cause. This common cause was the reorganization of the country's life in a constructive way. Industrialization, collectivization, the scientific and technological revolution, the creation of advanced armed forces. The common cause then could be done on the basis of fear, interest and faith in a brighter future.

Stalin had no illusions about the Soviet people of the 20s model. This society was poisoned by revolution, civil war and terror. The people, infinitely far from the ideals of a brighter future (the new “golden age”, civilization and the society of the future), could be encouraged to superhuman efforts only by two methods - by forcing and creating an attractive image of the future. Coercion became the lever that set the system in motion, gave an initial impetus and provided first results. Coercion was carried out by various methods: harsh repressive collectivization, super-harsh punishment for any wrongdoing, forced labor of prisoners, hard work for a small fee (for example, on collective farms).

These were very tough methods. But without them, the peoples of Russian (Soviet) civilization were doomed to historical defeat and disappearance from the planet. Without them, the USSR would not have carried out collectivization and industrialization, had not created a powerful military-industrial complex and advanced armed forces, could not have survived in World War II, and became a victim of Germany, Japan, the USA and England. Already in the mid-30s, when industry rose, a powerful system of material interest appeared. There was money for bonuses, products, goods and services for which they could be spent. The best workers, employees, tankmen, pilots, etc., were encouraged.

Thus, coercion in the Stalinist system is not the result of the bloodthirstiness of the Soviet leader and his entourage, or the inherent property of communism, as Western liberals try to explain to us, but a vital necessity. Coercion and cruel methods came from the catastrophe of the 1917 year and the hopeless situation of the USSR-Russia in 1920 - the beginning of the 1930-s. Stalin was not a villain, an executioner. As soon as it became possible to reward people for their hard work and achievements, Stalin immediately began to use the “carrot”. And the further, the more. So, from 1947 of the year, they began to regularly reduce prices for goods.

At the same time, it is necessary to forget the lie of the liberals that under Stalin there was a general equalization (it was introduced by Khrushchev) that all were equally poor. Stalinist society was effective and diverse. So under Stalin purposefully created the imperial, national elite. It included not “responsible businessmen”, billionaires selling their homeland, not professional lyceum actors, pop-party, as in modern Russia, but designers, engineers, scientists, professors, doctors, teachers, pilots, officers, generals, skilled workers (working aristocracy). They received large salaries, better housing, access to the additional benefits of life. Under Stalin, professors lived better than union ministers. The real forges of the Soviet elite were Suvorov and Nakhimov schools.

Under Khrushchev, all this will be destroyed. The basic principle of socialism “to everyone according to their work” will be violated, equalization will be organized when the engineer will also receive or even less than the average worker. No matter how much you work, you won’t get more than your bet. Salary growth was frozen, but production standards began to rise. Under the “damned” Stalin, he earned as much as he earned (even a million). The principle was clearly adhered to: the higher the qualification, the more income. Therefore, people had an incentive to learn and work better. And production rates rose depending on the introduction of new capacities, technologies and equipment in production. Under Khrushchev, popular Stalinist socialism was destroyed, the imperial elite began to be squeezed by party officials, whose degeneration led to the 1985 — 1991 catastrophe.

The Stalin era was a time of scientific and technological revolution, a breakthrough into the future. This is the "golden age" of inventors and developers of complex technologies. Under Stalin, we create and develop the nuclear industry, our own, original computers, electronics, aircraft manufacturing and rocket science. Russia has become a superpower, a civilization of the future. All this is the result of the social engineering of the red emperor-priest.

Civilization of the future


Stalin used not only coercion and reward, but also a new culture to create the society of the future. Films, songs, books, magazines (only “Technique - Youth” - the whole world!), Houses of culture and creativity. And no matter what they say "about the bloody executioner", and Stalin managed to create a magical civilization of the future. To achieve unprecedented unity of the people, their true faith, turned into the fury of battle and selfless work. Russian (Soviet) civilization was able to overthrow another magical civilization - the Third Reich, which was powered by the energy of the "black sun", the "dark side of power."

It is clear that faith in a brighter future was shared by the entire Soviet people. The old generations, psychologically disfigured by the First World War, the revolution and the turmoil, for the most part did not believe in anything, were tired, only tried to survive, survive, and attach themselves well. Belief in the bright tomorrow was only among the Communists (and even then not all, there were opportunists), young generations.

Stalin understood that the new reality would triumph only when it became the only one for the vast majority of the population. When the bulk of the people will believe in this future. And he will bring it closer, strive for it. To give all the strength for the sake of a dream, and if life is required. There was no other way to create a new civilization. Therefore, the main thing was not coercion or material interest, but the education of people. The older generations were largely lost. The main hopes were for youth.

The fame of Stalin as the best friend of the children was true. Children, youth have become the real elite of the Soviet Union. A happy country of childhood is the absolute truth about the youth policy of the Stalinist government. They gave all the best to children and youth. A whole system was created throughout the Red Empire to educate new generations: pioneer camps, health resorts, houses of creativity and culture, art and music schools, planetariums and stadiums. All so that children, schoolchildren and students can show and develop their abilities, explore the world, engage in science, culture, art, prepare for work and defense. Houses with white columns were rightly called the palaces of pioneers and schoolchildren, as the children themselves called them. Huge money went to science, upbringing, education, physical and intellectual development. The cult of youth, education, strength and purity has been created.

The effect was amazing. Generations of the 20s were devotedly devoted to their socialist Fatherland. For the most part, the first fully literate and educated generations sincerely loved Stalin and the USSR. Soviet power enabled tens of millions of young men and women to realize their creative, human potential. These were the people of the highest standard. It is not surprising that the Great Patriotic War gave many thousands of examples when border guards, tankmen, pilots, sailors, artillerymen and infantry fought to the last, even if they were doomed and had no chance of victory. They believed in a common victory! When these heroes were told, the younger generations taught them examples. The current heroes are elite prostitutes and bandits.

In the same way, Soviet people showed miracles in work. Thanks to the heroism and work of the Soviet people, the country survived and won up in a terrible war, was able to recover in the shortest possible time and again rushed forward to the future. The merit of Stalin is that he was able to give such faith and dedication to society. The Soviet leader gave the new Russian civilization an imperial style everywhere - in cinema, architecture, music, painting and technology (T-34). It’s just breathtaking when you dream about what heights we could achieve thanks to this, if not for the Great Patriotic War 1941 —1945. (a significant part of the new Stalinist generations were killed in it) and not Khrushchev's “perestroika”.

That is why that great era in modern Russia caused the emergence of popular Stalinism. Too sharply great pictures of the past contrast with pictures of the wretched present of the Russian Federation. The experience of the Stalinist empire is the basis for the future revival of great Russia.

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  1. Far B 13 November 2019 05: 46 New
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    What a surprisingly prolific author A. Samsonov! If he had been demolished even less on the "civilization of the USSR / Rus and the enemies of their Anglo-Saxons" - he would have had no price. And then somehow it turns out too much pathos. In any article, to any topic, it tries to spit, even if it does not want to spit. And from this, not bad, in general, topics lose a lot. IMHO.
    1. Pessimist22 13 November 2019 06: 08 New
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      Yeah, it turns out we live in the Russian civilization of the future, and in the Japanese civilization of the past smile
      1. Aviator_ 13 November 2019 08: 12 New
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        About Japanese civilization. This director Tarkovsky’s Japanese civilization of the 60’s was an example of the civilization of the future (shots in Solaris with a stream of cars on the highway). But in 12, I visited Japan and made the impression that I was in the USSR during the 1980 period. As is now known, after this peak in the USSR, stagnation and destruction began.
        1. vladimirZ 13 November 2019 12: 20 New
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          Good and correct article by A. Samsonov. Age I.V. Stalin - the heyday of the USSR - a new socialist Russia with a liberated people from the oppression of capitalism and tsarism.
          And for such a historically short period - 10-15 years, the people under the leadership of the Communist Party, headed by I.V. Stalin and his comrades-in-arms built a powerful industrial power that withstood the blow of fascist Europe led by Germany. After the war - in 5-8 years, everything destroyed by enemies was restored; created a nuclear shield that still works and protects us; in 15 years they were the first to go into space; reached a certain, corresponding to that time, material well-being of people.
          The achievements of the Stalin era are especially vividly manifested now, when after the 30-year collapse of the USSR, the country and people more and more fall into poverty and the bondage of the capitalist "paradise" - systemic and endless wars and crises, collapse and destruction, an ever-greater reduction in social guarantees and political rights of workers.
          1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 14: 28 New
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            There was time and there were cellars
            There was a time and prices were reduced
            And the channels flowed right
            And in the end, where it was necessary
            (V. Vysotsky)

            Joseph Stalin - the only leader in the country, in which prices actually fell, and this was systematic. The USSR was the first of all countries to cancel food cards, and this despite the fact that since the Soviet Union suffered, no one was injured, including even Germany.
            The pace of the country's recovery was enormous. And this despite the fact that we restored not only ourselves, but the entire Warsaw block. Who of contemporaries or from past leaders is capable of such a thing ?! That's NOBODY!
            1. Leonid Anatolevich 13 November 2019 16: 56 New
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              Germany, destroyed by bombing in 1945, had the second gold reserve in the world by the mid-1950s - this is the pace of economic recovery without a Leader.
              1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 17: 06 New
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                Leonid Anatolyevich (Leonid Anatolyevich)
                Germany, destroyed by bombing in 1945, had the second gold reserve in the world by the mid-1950s - this is the pace of economic recovery without a Leader.

                Question 1. What kind of Germany? There were two of them at that time and one of them, which was Eastern, was restored not without the help of the USSR.
                Question 2. If you mean Germany, then WHERE is their gold reserve? Do not know? The Germans have still not seen him in the eye and will not see it most likely.

                - Dad, did you take money in a kamode? Mom will ask you now.
                - Oooh, Nadyuha came to her senses, and the babai took the money. (from the movie "Love and Pigeons")

                This is what I mean, this is me to the German gold, which the Americans have and which have long been bye bye.
                Question 3. Have you heard anything about the Marshall plan?

                Without a Leader ... yeah, how so!
                1. Leonid Anatolevich 19 November 2019 10: 56 New
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                  Why all the hints?
                2. Leonid Anatolevich 19 November 2019 13: 03 New
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                  Marshall's plan was rejected by the Russians
              2. Looking for 13 November 2019 17: 15 New
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                still-robbed all of Europe
              3. RUSS 13 November 2019 20: 43 New
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                Quote: Leonid Anatolyevich
                Germany, destroyed by bombing in 1945, had the second gold reserve in the world by the mid-1950s - this is the pace of economic recovery without a Leader.

                Not only Germany recovered, but all countries, both losers and winners of the war, and all without “Stalin”
                1. Nikolai Korovin 17 November 2019 22: 54 New
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                  Yes, according to Marshall’s plan. All recovering paid Wall Street in full. Not without reason in preference is the term "American aid." Who played - knows. I wasn’t particularly keen, sometimes. But aware of this circumstance. A partner plays for you, pours you a bullet and describes you as a whist. They don’t want to give 2% of GDP for the American budget - no, darlings! Played - chase a coin! Everything from the time of recovery stretches.
                  1. Leonid Anatolevich 19 November 2019 13: 07 New
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                    It remains to cite proofs of Wall Street payouts.
                    In addition, Wall Street took on the cost of helping Land Liz. In the war initiated by the USSR
                2. Leonid Anatolevich 19 November 2019 11: 01 New
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                  I have half of my friends grew up in wooden apartment blocks
            2. frog 13 November 2019 18: 31 New
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              Of course. And with him they built a BBK and abandoned it. And then they built it again, but already sane. And with him, the fierce number of people flew away simply "for statistics." And a lot of cool stuff. He ended up leaving behind the grave diggers of the country he had created. No one says he is a demon. But here it is absolutely idealized personality, with all the stocks - bust. How many idols can you create for yourself?
          2. karabass 13 November 2019 16: 41 New
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            Well, men, I read your comments and my soul rejoices - as long as there are people like you, everything will be good! You would be to the wheelbarrows, but to logging, we would not be the only Belomor - the Channel was built and THREE !!!
            1. Xnumx vis 14 November 2019 22: 43 New
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              Yanka Kupala - Laureate of the Stalin Prize of the first degree (1941) .---: ABOUT STALIN WISE I SONG SONG
              About Stalin wise I lay down a song,
              And the song is from the heart, and the song is such
              That flies everywhere and rings, not smolkaya,
              And there is no end to her, and no edge to her ...
              About Stalin wise I lay down a song.
              I live freely with Stalin in the world:
              As for the clear sun, it warms and shines,
              Paves the way to a great victory,
              So that it was more joyful for both adults and children ...
              I live freely with Stalin in the world.
              To a song, his name lives among the people, -
              In the vast fields and in every plant;
              He comes to collective farm huts as a guest,
              He is with us everywhere - in a round dance ..,
              As for the song, his name lives on among the people.
              Everyone sees his falcon eyes
              And on bright days and on rainy nights.
              He wiped away our tears, he strengthened happiness.
              He prophesies a new share of the untalented ...
              Everyone sees his falcon eyes.
              He gives us strength, brings us to people,
              Free, we breathe deeply,
              And I won’t bow forever,
              And we will never cool our hearts ...
              He gives us strength, brings us to people.
              He writes laws for centuries and nations.
              So that the world is illuminated by a great sunrise, laughing That's where the personality cult is! They licked so that tongues were washed into the blood! laughing am
            2. Nikolai Korovin 17 November 2019 22: 56 New
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              One thing. Either a car or lumbering. Personally, I like logging in moderation. That on a good winter in the taiga was enough. A car - yes God be with her, with a car. Let Leonid Ilyich and Nixon carry from the underestimation of the Chinese.
        2. Mordvin 3 13 November 2019 18: 58 New
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          Quote: Aviator_
          I visited Japan in 12 and made the impression that I was in the USSR during the 1980 period.

          Why so?
          1. Aviator_ 13 November 2019 19: 09 New
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            Wild bureaucracy in everything. A bunch of small papers - so when exchanging dollars for yen (and there everyone prefers cash for some reason) I needed the address of my hotel, where I stayed, but shortly before that they renamed the street where the hotel was located (doesn’t resemble anything?), Did it cost I have an extra half hour of proceedings, given the fact that almost no one speaks English there - of all the staff - a couple of employees. And the success of the Japanese, at least in the field of robotics at the time of the Fukushima disaster, was more than modest in comparison with the robotics of the USSR. And with the Japanese civilian aircraft there, too, strained - in the 70 years they tried to do something, but now they are not trying.
            1. Nikolai Korovin 17 November 2019 22: 58 New
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              Buying someone else’s patents is not going far. Even with American help. Skid, skid the Japanese. Lose markets.
              1. Aviator_ 18 November 2019 08: 05 New
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                There American assistance is very specific. For example, the emergence of a competitor in the field of civil aviation to Amer is generally useless, therefore, all attempts to revive the Japanese in this direction are unsuccessful.
    2. Civil 13 November 2019 07: 46 New
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      1. Stalin was one of the revolutionaries.
      2. Before Stalin in 1917-1924 was Lenin, probably he also made a huge contribution.
      3. Society, like the sea, is gradually changing its properties, and in no 1-2 generations the ways of its existence can be changed.
      4. And it doesn’t matter how the position of the ruler of Russia is called - the Grand Duke, Tsar, Emperor, First Secretary, President, always a regime of personal power. You always need your favorite master's boot for kissing.
      1. SOVIET UNION 2 13 November 2019 08: 51 New
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        1. Well, Stalin was a revolutionary and a fighter for his ideas. So what? We Gaidar and Chubais are also revolutionaries and fighters for their idea. What brought their idea to Russia? 2. Yes, Lenin contributed. Created a new format of society. Gorbachev also created a new society. 3. Change the properties of society in one two generations? Easy! 1941-1991st! How many generations have passed? Some did not let in and drove the West out of their country, others in 50 years stupidly surrendered! 4. Is it important or unimportant what is the title of ruler? If Stalin is called the emperor, then they are not mistaken. The empire was. Putin is called the king. He has no empire. Although there is royal symbolism! And about the beloved master's boot. Then did not bow before the West, unlike perestroika and perestroika times. But from the time of Gorbachev, foreign boots were very fond of! And without them, well, nothing at all! And the wine does not pour down the throat and does not climb a sandwich! wassat
        1. Nasrat 13 November 2019 09: 23 New
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          What nonsense I just read .... Who carefully studies the documents of that era, real, historical documents will understand that the nonsense is written ...

          What elite of scientific personnel is discussed in the article if they are pressed in bundles?
          I give an example of Kapitsa:
          Yezhov could not arrest Kapitsa himself, but his employees - Vladimir Fok and Lev Landau - were taken. February 11, the morning after the arrest of Fock, Kapitsa wrote to Stalin, giving four arguments about why Fock should not be planted:
          "1. This will further increase the gap between scientists and the country, which, unfortunately, exists and which I would like to see destroyed.
          2. The arrest of Fock is an act of abuse of a scientist, which, like abuse of a machine, spoils its quality. To spoil the workability of Fock is to harm the entire world of science.
          3. Such treatment of Fock causes both our and Western scientists an internal reaction similar to, for example, reaction to the expulsion of Einstein from Germany.
          4. We have few scientists like Fock, and the Union Science can be proud of it before world science, but it becomes difficult when they put him in a jail. ”

          The same Kapitsa writes to Stalin:
          “So, 27 years after the revolution, we built a lot, mastered a lot, and how little of our large we brought into technology! Personally, I can name only one major achievement of ours - this is synthetic rubber. This is a truly global achievement, here we were at first ahead, but, unfortunately, America and Germany have already overtaken us today. How little we ourselves have felt and feel the significance of this greatest achievement! Academician Lebedev, a pioneer and creator, should have been a national hero, and after a trip in a hard carriage he grabbed typhus and died in 1934. This is a shameful case for us. It’s necessary to say bluntly that in a capitalist country if Lebedev would die, then, probably, in his salon-car and when the train crashed. ”

          Kapitsa himself was "pressed" throughout his life, but they were afraid to send to camps - the world community was already indignant beyond bounds when he was locked up in the USSR
          Kapitsa had gigantic weight at that time in world science ...

          And how lucky Queen SP was that he was already a lucrative man who didn’t have time for the Indigirka steamer, which sank !!! He is practically a corpse, he managed to survive, probably by the fact that there was an internal force in him ... - is this normal?
          1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 09: 34 New
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            NasRat (Evlampy Spiridonovich)
            What nonsense I just read .... Who carefully studies the documents of that era, real, historical documents will understand that the nonsense is written ...
            What elite of scientific personnel is discussed in the article if they are pressed in bundles?
            You are talking nonsense! Without the scientific elite, there would be no industrialization of the country. Tell me in favor, and who do you think was developing the ZIS-3, T-34, KV, IS, La 5/7, Yak 1/7/9/3, who ...?
            Well, the fact that some designers were locked in sharazhki was for their own good. Because some people didn’t get there at all, and the waste of public money on empty projects also took place.
            And then, the designer is a very valuable shot, spies can and will hunt for him, so it’s very wise to hide him in a sharazhka during the war.
            Remind me which of the leading designers was shot and for what?
            Grabin, at his own peril and risk, in violation of all conceivable instructions, put on stream his ZIS-3 not yet accepted for service, and yet Stalin did not touch him with his finger, because he received the most flattering reviews about this gun from the front.
            So it’s just you and you who are allegedly "truth-tellers" who are talking nonsense.
            There would not be a scientific elite, there would be no flight into space, and there would also be no nuclear bomb!
            1. Nasrat 13 November 2019 09: 46 New
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              Uncle, all Soviet industrialization, all the military-industrial complex - was designed and created by an American Albert Kahn with his small company from Detroit Albert Kahn Associates Incorporated ..
              Who do you think designed and built (and where did he build !?) Stalingrad, Chelyabinsk tractor plants? I will answer you - the Americans, and built in America, the Stalingrad Tractor - the Americans built in 6 months !!! ...
              Why ask the Americans build? But because there were no domestic specialists at that time !!! Someone against the wall, and who managed to run abroad !! They are proletarians ...
              1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 09: 58 New
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                Uncle, I know very well who designed all these plants and even know why. Because in Russia no one simply could design them, there were no such plants in Russia. What does this have to do with your height?
                And at the same time take an interest in what Korolev and many others sat.
                So you and your kind are talking nonsense.
                You still did not answer the question of who created the technique on which we then broke the ridge of Nazi Germany and the entire united West.
                Do the following names tell you anything?
                Shops, Gurevich, Grabin, Koshkin, Kostrikov, Tikhomirov, Artemyev, Mikoyan, Ermolaev, Spirits, Degtyarev, Shpagin, Simonov and many many others.
                1. Nasrat 13 November 2019 10: 08 New
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                  And I will answer you, who created all this technique - our people, thank God endowed with talents !!! But the fact that all the technical intelligentsia has been mowed down is a fact! Then collected bit by bit ..

                  By the way, tell me what the Queen was planted for? What is he guilty of having to plant him?
                  1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 10: 13 New
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                    NasRat (Evlampy Spiridonovich)
                    And I will answer you, who created all this technique - our people, thank God endowed with talents !!!
                    Oh, another liberal nonsense. It turns out that our people did everything themselves, against the will of Stalin. The people organized themselves, constructed everything themselves, found the materials themselves, built them themselves, began to produce products themselves, organized themselves in regiments and divisions, equipped themselves and equipped themselves, and then fought. But what about the officials? But they damned all prevented the people from organizing themselves, put sticks in the wheels and did not let the people fight, and all this chaos was led by Stalin, along with Beria. I guessed?
                    How fool Need to be so nonsense to carry?
                    1. Nasrat 13 November 2019 10: 21 New
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                      That's just the point, according to the will of Stalin they rolled everyone into a jail in a row, and when they found out that there was nobody to move the country to, they began to rescue those who survived ... Do you judge by the same army and officers, which officer met the war?
                      What turned out to be the front line near Moscow, the Crimea surrendered, the Caucasus (!) Was barely kept, Leningrad was surrounded - do you think this simple soldier has become worse at war, compared with the First World War? Fortunately, there are talents in our people, and they appear in difficult years for the country ...
                      The failures of Stalin were blamed on the commanders of the districts and they were shot ... - Wasn’t that what?
                      1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 10: 26 New
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                        Yeah, they heard that half the country was sitting, and the second was guarding ... laughing
                        The purges among the officer corps were simply necessary, otherwise the war would have been lost in 1941.
                        I am honestly too lazy to answer you, your stamps on VO have been smeared on the wall a hundred times already, but you have repeatedly, with persistence worthy of better use, carry all this nonsense, which I am too lazy to refute. He who has ears, let him hear, he who has eyes, let him see, who has a brain ... but this does not apply to you!
                      2. Nasrat 13 November 2019 10: 52 New
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                        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                        Yeah, they heard that half the country was sitting, and the second was guarding ... laughing
                        The purges among the officer corps were simply necessary, otherwise the war would have been lost in 1941.

                        Returning to Nicolas - he did not do the purges, but he did not give up the Crimea! And he didn’t retreat to Moscow ... Who is to blame? And why did you suddenly need cleansing? You look at the essence !!

                        sometimes I think that it would hardly have been a Great Patriotic War if there hadn’t been for the 1917 Revolution ..
                      3. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 10: 58 New
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                        NasRat (Evlampy Spiridonovich)
                        Returning to Nicolas - he didn’t do any purges,
                        Well, yes, just a little people shot, and indiscriminately.
                        and Crimea did not give up!
                        And did Stalin pass Crimea to someone?
                        If I mean the capture of Crimea by the Germans in 1942, then I dare to remind you that Nikolashka completely blamed the Russo-Japanese war, not to mention the lost WWI.

                        And one more:
                        Stalin was a communist, say the communists.
                        Stalin was a nationalist - argue nationalists.
                        Stalin was scum and insignificance - scum and insignificance declare.
                      4. The comment was deleted.
                      5. depressant 13 November 2019 16: 19 New
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                        Alexander Suvorov, brilliantly!
                        And the high pathos of Samsonov’s article is because the era was pathos, of a cosmic scale.
                        So ask me what is the pathos of the present, so first I will laugh for a long time, and then I will answer the question with the question: "Are you serious?"
                        But actually bitter. We, the great nation of dreamers, creators, scientists, have been belittled to the position of animals - skillfully, gradually, subtly, so that it does not catch the eye, so as not to smell. And masterful state traitors of various denominations cooked us slowly, like a frog over low heat, simultaneously evaporating the sublime from us, replacing the oxygen of our dreams with the stench of momentary wretched needs.
                        And, at least partially, but it turned out. Because the great Stalin died at the wrong time. He would have lived another twenty years! And he was the only one with whom, Russians, the stars agreed. He became the father of the Soviet nation, he understood the need of our national soul for high flight and let us fly. And until now, in spite of the vile realities, our soul has not died out and is heading upwards, but its wings are broken and the atmosphere is poisoned. Hence the natural popular Stalinism.
                      6. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 16: 33 New
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                        depressant (lyudmila yakovlevna kuznetsova)
                        Alexander Suvorov, brilliantly!
                        Thank you Lyudmila! love hi I try as far as possible.
                        And the high pathos of Samsonov’s article is because the era was pathos, of a cosmic scale.
                        They could also afford pathos, they allowed merit. By the way, Stalin himself did not like pathos or flattery, but was a pragmatist to the marrow of bones.
                        We, the great nation of dreamers, creators, scientists, have been belittled to the position of animals - skillfully, gradually, subtly, so that it does not catch the eye, so as not to smell.
                        This is very true and very subtly noticed. We from the builders of a great future have been reduced to the bestial level of consumer mice. From the most educated and reading nation, we have turned into a nation of victims of the exam. A dumb herd is easier to manage than a community of literate, thinking people.
                        And, at least partially, but it turned out. Because the great Stalin died at the wrong time. He would have lived another twenty years!
                        It is unfortunate that Stalin died without leaving a worthy receiver. More precisely, if Beria had shown as much energy in the undercover fight against Khrushchev as he had shown during the implementation of Stalin’s plans and would have emerged victorious, everything would probably not be so deplorable for the USSR. Repeated and will repeat Khrushchev and is the main culprit in curtailing the USSR from building a great country to its collapse. Tagged and Alkash are just the consequences of his reign.
                        Hence the natural popular Stalinism.
                        The more we fall into the pit of capitalism, the more people will strive for the Stalinist path of development. Because it was the path to justice for ALL, and not for units.
                    2. Andrey VOV 13 November 2019 16: 30 New
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                      For this, Eulmapy Spiridonovich, the scientific elite are figures such as the murderer and the psycho professor from St. Petersburg. That the young lady was also sawn by a professor from the Higher School of Economics, who called the Russian language the language of the gopniks or whatever.
                    3. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 16: 41 New
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                      Andrey VOV (Andrey)
                      For this, Eulmapy Spiridonovich, the scientific elite are figures such as the murderer and the psycho professor from St. Petersburg. That the young lady was also sawn by a professor from the Higher School of Economics, who called the Russian language the language of the gopniks or whatever.
                      Well, one field of berries is immediately obvious!
                      I’m saying, scratch the anti-Soviet, you will find a Russophobe!
                      I already wrote, but I repeat. All our so-called crystal bakers are essentially traitors. Why? Yes, because of all the kings, they put idols on themselves the most worthless, in which Russia lay on its shoulder blades and would fall apart, if the Bolsheviks did not come to power. Well, there’s no need to take an example from Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, but no, they take as an example the one who led the country to disaster. Here is bringing Russia to another disaster and there is their main goal!
                    4. Reptiloid 13 November 2019 22: 44 New
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                      Quote: Andrey VOV
                      For this, Eulmapy Spiridonovich, the scientific elite are figures such as the murderer and the psycho professor from St. Petersburg. That the young lady was also sawn by a professor from the Higher School of Economics, who called the Russian language the language of the gopniks or whatever.
                      you can still recall the aunt-economist, who on the eve of May 9 was bent on the blockade of Leningrad .... by May 9, always such a little thing comes out with mucks, they say exposures, only who pays them the "discovery"
                  2. Nikolai Korovin 13 November 2019 16: 52 New
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                    WWI lost the Provisional r-r-r-revolutionary government. Order No. 1 - and the job is done. And "Nikolashka" in the person of Japan fought, in fact, with England and America. Who armed Japan? She didn’t even have at that moment even sufficiently developed for the construction of such a powerful fleet of the steel industry! All supply and replenishment of the army in Manchuria - through the single-track Trans-Siberian Railway! Who forced the Christmas squadron to go around Africa - of course, bearing in mind that while it crosses the equators there, the Japanese will deal with the Port Arthur squadron? Seem, the British. Not allowed through the Suez Canal. I have nothing against Stalin’s praise, only I have to moderate the enthusiasm a bit, but there’s no reason to mix with the crap of Nicholas II. The war is on, and some gentlemen are organizing a revolution in the country (I mean 1905). Weak, weak was the secret police. The NKVD was no match for soles. And if the director of the Police Department helps revolutionaries, then what does the tsar have to do with it?
                2. APES 13 November 2019 13: 51 New
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                  Quote: Nasr
                  sometimes I think that it would hardly have been a Great Patriotic War if there hadn’t been for the 1917 Revolution

                  Anyway, there would be, as there will be a third, more precisely, which already goes for the main prize: "who will have a new printing press"
                  according to the article - one pathos, and so I agree with you, if there was an opportunity, how many scientists and talented scientists would fall over a hill in those days?
                  Now the same thing, smart people are leaving, but now we have Seagal, Roy Jones, there was a network (HZ) Gerard Departier (the main motive for obtaining citizenship is only 13% personal income tax) and a couple of strange comrades.
                  Regarding the opponent of your dispute and the essence of the dispute, that is, people who share, and there are people who share. those who share - it is clear that most are not very smart ...
                  you were much more convincing :)
                3. brat07 16 November 2019 04: 44 New
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                  Quote: APES
                  Quote: Nasr
                  sometimes I think that it would hardly have been a Great Patriotic War if there hadn’t been for the 1917 Revolution

                  Anyway, there would be, as there will be a third, more precisely, which already goes for the main prize: "who will have a new printing press"
                  according to the article - one pathos, and so I agree with you, if there was an opportunity, how many scientists and talented scientists would fall over a hill in those days?
                  Now the same thing, smart people are leaving, but now we have Seagal, Roy Jones, there was a network (HZ) Gerard Departier (the main motive for obtaining citizenship is only 13% personal income tax) and a couple of strange comrades.
                  Regarding the opponent of your dispute and the essence of the dispute, that is, people who share, and there are people who share. those who share - it is clear that most are not very smart ...
                  you were much more convincing :)

                  Well, you, as I suppose, from the "caste" that are "divided"?
              2. Nikolai Korovin 13 November 2019 16: 42 New
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                And if the liberal State Duma didn’t require a “responsible ministry”, it wouldn’t put in a jail War Minister Sukhomlinov, who, like a spy, would not finally remove Nicholas II himself ... There wouldn’t be a revolution either. Unfortunately, the Duma leaders were sure that they should be allowed to steer, how in a couple of months general prosperity would come ... Such prosperity arrived that the people became brutalized. And all this, unfortunately, was, and we must finally digest it. When will the public understand that the repressions of 37-38 are a direct consequence of the “revolutionary legality” of the Civil War, its final act? Many, if not all, revolutionary figures who could only destroy, including The main leaders of collectivization in grain districts. The number of RCP (b) from 1934 to 1939 decreased from about 2,8 million people to 1,6 million people. By the way, the number of victims of repression of 37-38 years is 15 times less than the number of victims of the civil war, about which the sufferers for 37 years do not bother to remember. Naturally, in such a meat grinder many innocent people suffered. Quite a few were released already in 1939, including and restored to the army. Rokossovsky, for example. This is not Stalin's personal evil will, but the inexorable course of history. The revolution devours its children - this is the law. Sometimes faster, sometimes slower. But always. And Stalin, of course, did not personally write 4 million denunciations. All this must be well understood in all details (I do not deny that I am giving a bare outline) in order to prevent repetition, and not to moan - oh, if there had not been a revolution! She could not have been in that particular situation. Regarding the article itself - in my opinion, the author unnecessarily idealizes the era, although, admittedly, with some reason.
              3. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 17: 59 New
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                Nikolay Korovin (Nikolay)
                And if the liberal State Duma didn’t require a “responsible ministry”, it wouldn’t put in a jail War Minister Sukhomlinov, who, like a spy, would not finally remove Nicholas II himself ... There wouldn’t be a revolution either.
                Very balanced, capacious and on the topic, neither diminish nor add. hi I subscribe to every word!
              4. Nikolai Korovin 18 November 2019 03: 50 New
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                Thank. I did my best.
            2. tesser 13 November 2019 19: 32 New
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              Quote: Alexander Suvorov
              I subscribe to every word!

              From me, too, plus)))
              You are not quite right about the Duma - what His Majesty, such is the Parliament of His Majesty, but you can agree on the bright page in the 37th year.
            3. Nikolai Korovin 18 November 2019 04: 01 New
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              "There are spies with a strong body. You are them at the door - they are at the window." The emperor did not like the first thought - he dispersed it. The second is the same. And so on and so forth ... The fourth brought to February. This was not a thought, but a platform for discrediting the government and pro-government forces. "Purishkevich: today in Zlatoust the chairman of the Russian branch of the Union of the Russian people was killed (that is, the bloody Black Hundred - N.K.) (in the hall, laughter on the left). The Duma should investigate this matter (laughter is intensifying).
              I do not guarantee shorthand accuracy, but something like that. Well, Purishkevich, of course, sometimes made very strange maneuvers, but apparently, in the hope of finding at least some allies, realizing that there were almost no pro-government deputies in the Duma - many Octobrists entered the first provisional government, although something like that? The intelligentsia applauded the voice of the people from the Duma tribune. By the way, for example, Gumilyov objected when he was called an intellectual. "God forbid, I have a specialty!" - spoke. Here is a man who was walking upstream. Not all, probably, you can agree with him, but still well done.
            4. tesser 18 November 2019 07: 03 New
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              Quote: Nikolai Korovin
              And so on and so forth ... The fourth brought to February.

              And the Sovereign and the gene. Alekseev was not brought to February.

              Well, OK.
      2. Mordvin 3 13 November 2019 19: 24 New
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        Quote: Nasr
        sometimes I think that it would hardly have been a Great Patriotic War if there hadn’t been for the 1917 Revolution ..

        Think deeper, Spiridonych. The Germans do not distinguish between WWII and WWII.
      3. Reptiloid 13 November 2019 22: 50 New
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        Quote: mordvin xnumx
        Quote: Nasr
        sometimes I think that it would hardly have been a Great Patriotic War if there hadn’t been for the 1917 Revolution ..

        Think deeper, Spiridonych. The Germans do not distinguish between WWII and WWII.
        Greetings
        Vladimir! The world map would be completely different. The temporary ones would be preserved --- the country would be torn to pieces and that's it
      4. tesser 14 November 2019 07: 49 New
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        Quote: Reptiloid
        the country would be torn to pieces and all

        )))
        You are confusing something. The “supporters of federalization” at that time were just the Reds.
  2. nedgen 18 November 2019 01: 50 New
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    Quote: Nasr
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    Yeah, they heard that half the country was sitting, and the second was guarding ... laughing
    The purges among the officer corps were simply necessary, otherwise the war would have been lost in 1941.

    Returning to Nicolas - he did not do the purges, but he did not give up the Crimea! And he didn’t retreat to Moscow ... Who is to blame? And why did you suddenly need cleansing? You look at the essence !!

    sometimes I think that it would hardly have been a Great Patriotic War if there hadn’t been for the 1917 Revolution ..

    Well, excuse me, “dear”, but comparing the WWII and the Second World War is the same as saying that the crocodile is longer than greener. fool I will give you only a few examples if they are so unknown to you. Firstly, in the WWII, from half to two-thirds of the German army ALL TIME was on the western front, and in WWII the fluorine front in practice barely barely opened in Italy until 1943, and then it pulled a dozen divisions from the eastern front. Secondly, in the Second World War, the German army was superior in training, tactics and operational art to absolutely all the armies of the world combined, and by the end of the war it was surpassed by the Red Army ONLY, and the allies even in early 1945 without 5-6-fold superiority in manpower and equipment and ABSOLUTE EXCELLENCE IN THE AIR could not even defend, not just to advance as it should.
    As for the purges, yes Nikolasha did not do them. And to remind you how first he had to abdicate and then ended his life in the basement along with the whole family? If I cleared the top of the imperial so-called the elites might not have pissed off first Rusko Japanese and then the PMV and the entire empire.
  3. evgen1221 13 November 2019 11: 18 New
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    Take an interest when the IVS got real power in the country and its own team in the government sharing its views and what started after that and before. So all the excesses, even though there was Stalin in the government, were made of direct decisions and are tyranny of the old Bolsheviks to say the foam handed up. Having cleaned this scum for reliable people, they began to free people (hello delirium about Beria the executioner) and the country made a jerk in the minds of people.
  4. Nasrat 13 November 2019 11: 43 New
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    Interesting people ... When you talk about Stalin's "achievements", you take the whole term of his reign ... And when you talk about his failures, you refer to his real power ... casuistry .. It turns out that this is not his "achievements" in industrialization and collectivization? This once again says that you know that he was involved in, to put it mildly, not beautiful affairs and are trying to shield him ...
  5. evgen1221 13 November 2019 12: 36 New
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    And I personally never talked about Stalin’s personal achievements in industrialization (well, he didn’t build the DreproGES alone. On involvement, Yes, there is part of his guilt, but we don’t forget about Blucher’s chaos and drunkenness in the Far East, for example, or creativity Khrushchev in Ukraine, Stalin just does not bear any responsibility, as well as for the art in the places of small kings, it’s just possible he knew something and was silent for something because he was burned out (delimiting the boundaries of the regions is worth it), well, who is not mistaken? it doesn’t, but the result of the IVS’s affairs is more substantial than its failures, you see, reformatting the population from the Mayak’s shtetl, I’m going to clean up any parasites from society to create a society full of well-founded hopes that everything is worth it today. For example, reformatting a person in our country back to a chewing hamster really like, although it’s for someone who drowns for it will be a great achievement,
  6. Nasrat 13 November 2019 12: 55 New
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    Stalin had nothing to do with the lawlessness in the Far East and the art of small kings ...? Interpolating today .... and what do we get? Putin is not in the affairs of lawlessness in the Far East and the art of small kings? You guys, be consistent!
    As for reformatting and cleaning (your words!) Of all parasites - why was this carried out by denunciations and triples?
    Do I agree with the affairs of today from the authorities - no .. I strongly disagree with many .. but this does not mean that the authorities should shoot me for this! And the family should be sent to the settlement ... so that there (a family) would have a new consciousness born and reformatting passed !!!!
    If you are for it, and you are for it! then again blood and denunciations ... then, after all, they also planted the wives of big people, so that they could “reformat” their husbands and statesmen ... and they all reformatted merrily into a society of creation ..



  7. evgen1221 13 November 2019 12: 56 New
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    Are you already being shot?
  8. Nasrat 13 November 2019 13: 08 New
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    Quote: evgen1221
    Are you already being shot?

    Thank God no! Not that time ... But the adherents of Stalin, whom there is darkness, are ready to do it right now !!! Give them power - they will shoot you for some kind of hesitation in the personality of Stalin!
  9. evgen1221 13 November 2019 14: 42 New
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    Anything was, But mind you, we are trying to evaluate the time, people and actions from the perspective of today and morality. But few people try to give an assessment from the perspective of those days. Then we still did not move away from the civilian terror and thought a lot of people it’s the categories of terror in the first place. In America, highway to the labor army for 1 bucks a day or drove half the country — the gulag doesn’t resemble nirazu (you can cry over the innocent victims of the highway (not a bit better than we had, and they’re not cry and others are not allowed to tear their guano.) From the perspective of that time, this was probably the only way to quickly restore what was destroyed and get people to do a big job.
  10. Nasrat 13 November 2019 15: 31 New
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    Why didn’t you attract Hitler for example? After all, everything is so simple to explain, from your words, right?

    And it’s strange, but today they ganged up on pension reform? How do you say there - maybe this is the only way to quickly restore the well-being of the elderly in the future? Funny excuse with pension reform? You have an excuse there - a revolution and civil war terror, and now an excuse for the terror of the 90s .... So, do you agree to undergo pension reform? After all, the whole alignment - according to your words, is written above!
  11. APES 13 November 2019 17: 00 New
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    to restore the well-being of the elderly in the future?

    There will be no old people in the future ...
  12. Mordvin 3 13 November 2019 19: 28 New
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    Quote: Nasr
    So, do you agree to undergo pension reform?

    And what depends on my answer?
  13. evgen1221 13 November 2019 20: 53 New
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    Nothing is independent of your answer here, but much is possible from your actions in reality ...
  14. evgen1221 13 November 2019 21: 03 New
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    Well, it starts, we started with one thing, we jump to a pensioner who is not even close to the topic of controversy, about the Rosguard or about Syria with the Ukrainians, let's drag in to distract from the topic. What and how people in the government are doing today is the result of education, decency and general morality as well as hotelok and the capabilities of today's generation, At that time everything was different and it was necessary to approach the issue more deeply by understanding those times and people with their needs, the environment and worldview at that time, and not by today's standards of free access to information, comfort and forgive by the concepts of rights human and greenpeace.
  15. haron 13 November 2019 22: 48 New
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    Quote: Nasr
    Give them power - they will shoot

    You must not be shot.
    You deserve to be the Minister of Health. With your talents, put things in order for the year.
    or little? Maybe you want the president. Then surely everything will be in openwork in this country.
    Do you agree? The question is trifling, the main thing you want. Leave the rest to them. They will do.
    I repeat. Write that you will do everything right, in this country. And you will be given all the opportunities and resources. You will figure out the timing and price along the way.
    PS Two coins for me still cook. This is if the terms of the problem come out, or with desires.
    PSS. Responsibility costs only as much as it affects the fate of others and lives. Exchange allowed a maximum of 1 to 10.
  16. Nikolai Korovin 18 November 2019 04: 22 New
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    Real power appeared before collectivization. This is his decision. Absolutely necessary. But Bukharin and the Bukharinites decided to surpass him. Somehow they forget about our "favorite of the party." After 27 years, he was probably the first person for some time. As an example of Stalin's hypocrisy, an article on excesses is cited. But after all, before that, he personally wrote to the most zealous collectivists, so that they could moderate agility. After the article, there was a rollback in the pace of collectivization. Very many, driven by force, left. But then they entered again slowly. We saw real advantages. About the executioner, Beria is not nonsense, but Khrushchev’s strategic move. Beria first began to expose the cult right at the funeral of Stalin, and he himself rocked the situation. Amnesty and the "cold summer of 1953" - his creation. Khrushchev picked up a valuable thought and turned the arrows to Beria. While Beria did not take it. As Malenkov said in 1957, "You are absolutely clean with us, Nikita Sergeich."
  17. Nikolai Korovin 17 November 2019 23: 09 New
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    Russia did not fight in World War I with a united Europe. The Germans held on the Eastern Front during the offensive on Paris no more than 20% of their forces. The transfer of two corps by the Germans during the Battle of Marne saved the French, but destroyed the army of Samsonov. The Austrians are still those warriors. In addition, they also intensified the revolutionary community and nationalists (Hungarian, Czech). So the enemy was much weaker in quality. Finland was part of Russia - a rather significant factor. Romania took the side of the Entente - however, in 1916. With the Turks in 1914-15, the war was sluggish. The Turks were far from the same as before. The actions against Turkey initially did not require much more troops than for the occupation of Northern Iran in 1942. So to compare the course of action in the First War and the Great Patriotic War is not worth it. Too different.
  18. Ragoz 19 November 2019 02: 37 New
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    Us Ratu:
    The expanses of Russia that were surrendered in 41-42 have returned, and under Yeltsin and Putin they have surrendered all of Russia, and whoever will return will be people like you who are suitable only for licking.
  • Reptiloid 13 November 2019 22: 25 New
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    А wassat liberals have such a fashion ---- the people themselves, did everything good in the USSR, not only not because of it, but contrary to the Bolsheviks and Stalin.
    The question then becomes, why are liberalists in power now? If such a people are good and independent, contrary to the leadership, these liberal ones are definitely useless !!!!
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    ..... The people of us, it turns out, did everything themselves, against the will of Stalin. The people organized themselves, constructed everything themselves, found the materials themselves, built them themselves, began to produce products themselves, organized themselves in regiments and divisions, equipped themselves and armed themselves, and then fought. But what about the officials? And they damned all prevented the people from organizing themselves, inserted sticks into the wheels and did not allow the people to fight, and all this chaos was led by Stalin, along with Beria. I guessed?
    How fool Need to be so nonsense to carry?
  • Aviator_ 13 November 2019 19: 15 New
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    Korolev sat down for embezzlement of funds. There was a technical assignment for a "jet torpedo" (essentially a cruise missile). Its characteristics (with liquid propellant rocket engines) would be worse than the shells of the same BM-13 with solid propellant rocket engines, but even Korolev could not bring his own "jet torpedo". And for embezzlement of money then asked strictly. So he sat down.
    1. tesser 13 November 2019 19: 21 New
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      Quote: Aviator_
      And for embezzlement of money then asked strictly. So he sat down.

      Oh my god.
      I had a present for AlekseyRA, okay, catch it.
      According to the combat capabilities of the RS M-13 approximately corresponded to 122 mm OFS:

      The jet engine of this shell is 7,1 kg of special powder in checkers, which the USSR was forced to order in England already in the fall of 1941 (d /// people can begin to howl about comrade Stalin's trusting and faithful union duty). 7,1 kg of gunpowder is about twice as much as a propellant charge in a 122 mm howitzer shot, the shell of which was not only much cheaper, but also turned around (it was supposed to be delivered to the used shells to the industry).

      The jet engine of this projectile is alloy steel and the work of fairly skilled turners in addition to more voluminous body work and very stringent (in theory) requirements for the accuracy of stabilizers and warhead installation.

      The M-13 missile as of September 1941 was 962 rubles 62 kopecks of "people's" money, at a cost of 122 mm HE shots of howitzer arr. 1910/30, with the same fuse (RVMZ) of 186 rubles 55 kopecks (a difference of 5,16 times). At a price of 122 mm RP howitzer shots arr. 1938 with the same fuse and brass sleeve of 198 rubles 48 kopecks, the difference in the price of a shot is 4,85 times. At a cost of 152 mm RP shot howitzer arr. 1909/30, with the same fuse of 280 rubles 88 kopecks, the difference in the price of a shot comes out 3,43 times. At a price of 152 mm RP howitzer shots arr. 1938 with the same fuse and a brass sleeve of 307 rubles 98 kopecks, the difference in the price of a shot drops as much as 3,12 times. , 962 rubles 62 kopecks of cost of M-13 is not only more than general-purpose shots of the entire Soviet divisional and corps artillery, but also at least some shots of BM artillery howitzers - a 203 mm shot with a B-4 howitzer shell cost the Soviet treasury only 905 rubles 4 kopecks.

      And all this was multiplied by the dispersal wildest compared to the artillery, the impossibility of hitting point targets and the limited possibilities of hitting targets observed from the front line NP - so as not to cover their trenches due to the same dispersion ....

      Who out of modern purulent fighting gays forever tries to talk about correctly shot and sent to camps due to embezzlement of designers and scientists? The same Queen and Langemak? The Queen, specifically, Kostikov and the curators were sent under a firing article for "air torpedo" - UR on telecontrol. Management, yes. Moreover, it is designed not on its own initiative, but according to the work plan approved by the chief engineer of the institute according to the order of GAU. Moreover, the order is not only RNII / NII-3 but also to such an accessory as NII-20, which was supposed to provide radio control equipment. Leading designers who also shot.

      PS. kris_reid You can add to the list that before the war the plant No. 70 NKB was taken for the production of RS-s, which had the maximum experience and equipment for the production of 76-mm armor-piercing.
      Of which in the warehouses of GAU on 1.06.1941/26/000 lay 8,5 pieces. Three pieces each for 76 thousand XNUMX mm divisional guns of the Red Army. even without tank artillery.


      https://rostislavddd.livejournal.com/367338.html
      1. brat07 16 November 2019 16: 44 New
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        livejournal

        He says a lot. However!
      2. tesser 16 November 2019 19: 35 New
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        Kindly express yourself more clearly.
      3. brat07 16 November 2019 20: 05 New
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        Quote: tesser
        Kindly express yourself more clearly.

        The link, let's say, is not very benign.
        If you have more specific information, then I will be grateful to you. hi
      4. tesser 16 November 2019 21: 23 New
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        Quote: brat07
        The link, let's say, is not very benign.

        It seems that you are on the Internet recently. As in VO there were authors who can be quoted, and there are authors who cannot be categorically quoted, in LJ there are different resources. Marchenko’s blog is one of the quality sources for rivets where you can meet the veterans of the VIF. Mentioned AlekseyRA in this fumbles.
        Quote: brat07
        If you have more specific information,

        The cited fragment sunk into the soul thanks to the wording relating to Alexei at the beginning of the third paragraph from the bottom.

        What specific information are you interested in?
  • Nasrat 14 November 2019 09: 19 New
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    The designer was accused of membership in the Trotskyist anti-Soviet counter-revolutionary group and wrecking. All previously arrested scientists, including Ivan Kleimenov, Georgy Langemak and Valentin Glushko, testified against Korolev and confirmed that such an organization really existed within the walls of the Reactive Research Institute.
  • haron 13 November 2019 22: 34 New
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    Quote: Nasr
    And I will answer you, who created all this technique - our people, thank God endowed with talents !!!

    Do not tell me where is your "people" now?
    Where all the talents have gone. After all, under power, for 30 years, there are no longer Stalin-like general secretaries.
    What are you and your people capable of without Stalin? ! I will help - on liberalism, and this is a fact. Scream what you want - in power a liberal, corrupt bastard.
    I am not kidding. And I’m not trolling. Where are the facts that in the country from year to year at least a little but better. Where is the growth of the economy due to the rural population? ... Sori, the rural population is dying, and the economy too ... everything is dying.
    But it is Stalin's fault! ..How long will you blame him for your impotence?
  • Varyag71 18 November 2019 16: 07 New
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    Well, what now does the people create nothing?
  • Ragoz 19 November 2019 02: 23 New
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    About Burning wrote R. Burns:
    Donkey will remain a donkey
    You at least shower him with stars
    Where to act with the mind
    He claps his ears.
  • ALEXEY VLADIMIROVICH 13 November 2019 10: 27 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    Do the following names tell you anything?
    Shops, Gurevich

    We know, we know ... And also the names of Sikorsky, Kalinin, Polikarpov ... Kalinin was a friend of Sikorsky, worked in one design bureau. Sikorsky emigrated to the USA, Kalinin refused, said he would work for his Soviet homeland .... As a result, Igor Sikorsky became a millionaire and a world-famous designer, and in 1938 the Chekists took him to the basement and shot him in the back of the head. A list for execution where Kalinin appeared, signed by Stalin, Molotov and Zhdanov. https: //topwar.ru/69711-sudba-konstruktora. html
    Researchers of the history of Russian aviation V.R.Mikheev and G.I.Katyshev in their capital research on I.I. Sikorsky analyzed the biographies of 75 leading Russian specialists who worked until 1917 together with the creator of Ilya Muromets, including the RBVZ aviation enterprise . Of these, only one died before 1917, 25 died between 1917 and 1924. 32 emigrated. Moreover, among the emigrants - not only I. I. Sikorsky himself and employees of his company, but also such outstanding specialists as S. P. Timoshenko, G. A. Botezat, A. A. Lebedev, L. V. Bazilevich for many decades being the "golden fund" of science and technology in France and the United States. Only 17 out of 75 specialists remained to work in the USSR, and 8 out of 17, including the outstanding designer of fighter aircraft N.N. Polikarpov, were repressed
    1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 10: 37 New
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      Sikorsky is certainly a talent, but it would be better if his commissars banged in time than he did so to our enemy.
      Kalinin is frankly sorry, but by the way, it is still not known who denounced him. Probably envious of other KB?
      Hard time required tough, and often cruel, measures.
      Better answer me the question, how much longer would the USSR create a nuclear bomb if the process would not be personally supervised by Beria?
      1. Nasrat 13 November 2019 11: 08 New
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        Funny to read !! Him, you see frankly sorry Kalinin !!! What cynicism !!! We, they say, for the methods of Stalin, but frankly sorry Kalinin !!!! Such "compassionate" people shot at the back of the head ... and this is to scientists, but what about the fist, who, as it was, was a cow that he did not give to the collective farm? He obviously does not mind at all !!!
        1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 11: 20 New
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          NasRat (Yevlampy Spiridonovich) These are so "compassionate" and shot at the back of the head ... and this is to scientists
          Even today I would have let half of our so-called intelligentsia into consumption, and I would have forced the rest to work out the bread in the camps. So yes, here you are right.
          but what about the fist
          Oh, it’s not just about the fists of the “disadvantaged”. My father-in-law had a fist. So when he seized the surplus of food, he secretly hid his surplus, and his sons indicated places to hide, and then he himself handed over these places to the surplus-appropriation service. But when the famine began, he did not give a grain to either children or grandchildren. These are their fists.
          I can post about a dozen more kulaks of such stories, and these are examples not from anywhere, but from the history of my family and the families of acquaintances, we had many prosperous fists on the Don.
        2. Nasrat 13 November 2019 11: 27 New
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          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          NasRat (Yevlampy Spiridonovich) These are so "compassionate" and shot at the back of the head ... and this is to scientists
          Even today I would have let half of our so-called intelligentsia into consumption, and I would have forced the rest to work out the bread in the camps. So yes, here you are right.
          .


          In-in ... those who shot, then they shot themselves ... Fun life and you dream about it !! Isn't that crazy? And you, obviously a kind person, all in the grandfather ... wassat
          To shoot those who gave bread, and then create collective farms, because bassota did not want to produce bread more than they need for the family !!! Earth now was theirs! But there was no bread! And the fists had !!! strange arithmetic ...
          Well, yes ... you’re tired of it ... once an adept, then do not rebuild you It is advisable to dip you in that time, but there are no such machines, now ...

          cheat. Remember my nickname, when your time comes to shoot at the back of the head - I think I will be in the forefront for execution ... a murderer and executioner! tongue
        3. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 11: 39 New
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          NasRat (Evlampy Spiridonovich)
          And you, obviously a kind person all in the grandfather ...
          You can think and write about me as you like, but my grandfather, a veteran of two wars, an artillery officer who spent the whole war on the front end, had two injuries and a bunch of awards, you should not touch with your filthy hands. For such things, faces are beaten, and hard, but you're a coward. On the Internet, all the brave ones fight with the marks, right?
          To shoot those who gave bread, and then create collective farms, because bassota did not want to produce more bread than they need for the family !!!
          And who should feed the country and army? Fists or holy spirit? Such as you listen so let the whole country die of hunger, so what?
          But there was no bread! And the fists had !!!
          First you need to learn history, then you would know why the kulaks were dispossessed and why the collective farms were created.

          Tired of me like a bitter radish, it’s boring to comment on your stupid nonsense.
        4. Nasrat 13 November 2019 11: 47 New
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          grandfather and war covered up ... you can immediately see the adherent of Stalin!

          And history really needs to be taught! Before the revolution, fists and themselves fed both the country and half the world .... this is for you, not to buy bread from Canada and the USA ...
        5. Sugar Honeyovich 13 November 2019 16: 36 New
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          Quote: Nasr
          Before the revolution, fists and themselves fed both the country and half the world.

          Yeah, people in our country were swelling with hunger. Did their fists forget to feed? Or just didn’t want to? fool
      2. karabass 13 November 2019 19: 02 New
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        And YOU, dear, why don’t you think that in case of the dictatorship (which you require) the check, having read your comments, you will be among the first to be shot or killed in the camps! and?
      3. RUSS 13 November 2019 20: 46 New
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        Quote: karabass
        And YOU, dear, why don’t you think that in case of the dictatorship (which you require) the check, having read your comments, you will be among the first to be shot or killed in the camps! and?

        They want Stalin for others, not for themselves)
  • Sugar Honeyovich 13 November 2019 16: 35 New
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    Quote: Nasr
    To shoot those who gave bread, and then create collective farms, because bassota did not want to produce more bread than they need for the family !!!

    It was just the opposite: whoever had the bread didn’t want to give it: “They will go hungry - they will pay more”, and those whom you called “bassot” (by the way, most of the peasantry, therefore, the people in general) did not want, but CANNOT produce more bread than they need for the family. And often they couldn’t. Therefore, collectivization with dispossession was needed.
  • Sergey1987 13 November 2019 16: 54 New
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    Quote: Nasr
    Isn't that crazy?

    There are some people like him, you’ll just be shocked. Brainless ones directly dream of the 30s, without even realizing that if they were the 30s now, they would be the first to put critics like them to the wall. They write from laptops about the poverty in which we live buying cars and apartments, which ordinary citizens could only dream of in the 30s. And all this with the current life expectancy is 2 times higher. And all this is justified by industrialization.
  • Mordvin 3 13 November 2019 19: 42 New
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    Quote: Sergey1987
    They write from laptops about the poverty in which we live buying cars and apartments, which ordinary citizens in 30 could only dream of.

    laughing Catherine also dreamed about a car. Kulibin made her. With pedals and box. yes
  • Sergey1987 14 November 2019 16: 42 New
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    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    Catherine also dreamed about a car. Kulibin made her. With pedals and box

    The interesting humor you have is just not funny. Why you wrote this is not clear.
  • Mordvin 3 13 November 2019 19: 34 New
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    Quote: Nasr
    To shoot those who gave bread, and then create collective farms, because bassota did not want to produce more bread than they need for the family !!!

    Nonsense is complete. Grandfather's parents were laborers. Plowed from morning to night. You, Spiridonych, who in life? Executioner?
    Quote: Nasr
    I will be in the forefront for execution ... the killer and the executioner!

    Look, how would you turn your guts out.
  • George Davydov 19 November 2019 21: 34 New
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    It was necessary to indicate - who were the laborers and what income did they receive from this? Namely, the same question now stands: to earn income using laborers, or rather, office plankton and not only.
  • tesser 13 November 2019 14: 05 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    how much longer would the USSR create a nuclear bomb if the process did not personally supervise Beria?

    And why did he create a nuclear bomb in peacetime?
    1. fighter angel 13 November 2019 14: 40 New
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      tesser.
      "... And why did he create a nuclear bomb in peacetime? ..."

      Please pretend to be a stupid person, Mr. Amerophile?
    2. tesser 13 November 2019 15: 22 New
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      Quote: fighter angel
      Please pretend to be a stupid person, Mr. Amerophile?

      Do you have an answer to this question?
    3. zenion 13 November 2019 15: 57 New
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      In order to have something to exchange with "peaceful" America.
    4. tesser 13 November 2019 16: 12 New
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      Quote: zenion
      In order to have something to exchange with "peaceful" America.

      With whom I fought or was going to fight America 26.06.1941/16.07.1945/20.08.1945 until 29.08.1949/XNUMX/XNUMX, I know. With whom did the USSR fight from XNUMX to XNUMX?
  • Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 14: 54 New
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    tesser (-_-)
    And why did he create a nuclear bomb in peacetime?
    I do not answer inadequate questions!
    Ask your doctor such questions. For example, why treat a patient if he is sick?
  • tesser 13 November 2019 15: 22 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    For example, why treat a patient if he is sick?

    Do not understand. What was the USSR sick in the 49th year?
  • zenion 13 November 2019 15: 58 New
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    USSR in 1949, vaccinated against sick America.
  • chenia 13 November 2019 16: 31 New
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    Quote: tesser
    And why did he create a nuclear bomb in peacetime?


    That peacetime would continue until today (which is what happened) ..
  • tesser 13 November 2019 17: 11 New
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    Quote: chenia
    What would peacetime go on to this day?

    That is, where the bomb was not created, there was no peace time? Well, I don’t know, in Finland?
  • chenia 13 November 2019 17: 29 New
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    Quote: tesser
    where the bomb was not created, there was no peace time?


    In Iraq, Libya, Syria, Vietnam, there was no bomb, and there was no peace either. And, interestingly, Finland would not have been if we hadn’t had a bomb.

    You, as I understand it, idealize people, everyone thinks how to make you good and pleasant. And some near-minded people (and communities of people-states) keep a stone in his bosom.
    And we should relax and have fun.

    And ask yourself, why the hell is the US nuclear weapon? From Honduras, from Mexico (there are enough walls there). Or is Canada making aggressive plans?
  • tesser 13 November 2019 17: 58 New
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    Quote: chenia
    Iraq, Libya, Syria

    This is an example? I heard there are generally troubled places, no? The Jews, by the way, have nuclear weapons, but they did not live much calmer.
    Quote: chenia
    Vietnam

    It would seem, where does the USSR?
    Quote: chenia
    And, interestingly, Finland would not have been if we hadn’t had a bomb.

    I mean, Comrade would be nervous. Stalin did the Finnish ASSR in the end?
    Quote: chenia
    You, as I understand it, idealize people,

    Rather the opposite.
    Quote: chenia
    everyone thinks how to make you good and pleasant.

    All do not care more or less.
    Quote: chenia
    And we should relax and have fun.

    By the way, a good idea. And then all too sandwiched and enjoy little.
    Quote: chenia
    And ask yourself, why the hell is the US nuclear weapon?

    You will not believe, they discussed this issue for about 5 years later.
    Quote: chenia
    From Honduras, from Mexico (there are enough walls there)

    In the 40s, they had a crazy idea that nuclear weapons would guarantee the end of all wars. When comrade Stalin explained to them in the 48th, using the example of Berlin, that no, nifiga, it was already too late.
  • Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 18: 04 New
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    chenia (kanonier)
    You, as I understand it, idealize people
    You have a very good opinion of him, he is just an empty pro-Western troll, no more, and not very smart, in the sense of absolutely fool not smart.
  • tesser 14 November 2019 07: 48 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    and not very smart, in the sense of not at all smart.

    This is written by a person who believes that the Reich lost due to the organization of Todt)). Say, not all peasants were recorded in this wonderful organization)))
  • George Davydov 19 November 2019 21: 48 New
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    It should be recalled that by the end of World War II, both the United States and England were preparing military plans to attack their ally, the USSR, as well as plans for atomic bombing of Soviet cities. Although this fruit, apparently, is overripe in reverence in the West, and therefore it perverts everything. Indeed, it is of little use. And about Israel and the Jews, I propose to read the speech of the messenger of God on earth from the Chabad Lubavitch sect. Very informative on the topic - who and why carried out the repression, created this authoritarian-bureaucratic regime and made a liberal coup with all that follows. In it, this scumbag does not hesitate to call himself and the like Jewish fascists, waging a war against Russians and Slavs for more than three thousand years. This, apparently, is the answer to everything that happens.
  • zenion 13 November 2019 15: 56 New
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    In many design bureaus, those who seemed to be for the power of the Soviets worked, so to speak. So they wrote different denunciations and anonymous letters. Only after there was an addition, as regards anonymous letters, the river of denunciations ceased. And they wrote simply who writes anonymous letters that were not confirmed during the investigation, then the anonymous reporter will be sentenced to as many years as the slander had to serve.
  • fighter angel 13 November 2019 14: 23 New
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    ALEXEY VLADIMIROVICH.
    You don’t know anything!
    And do not drag the feathered predator to the model of the Earth.
    Firstly, Kalinin was not a friend of Sikorsky. And he was not a student either! Kalinin never even worked at RBVZ. He is a warrant officer of an infantry regiment, from raznochintsy, a mechanic by training, in the PMV, after being wounded, was transferred to an air squad. He simply could not physically meet Sikorsky anywhere in such circumstances. And you are talking about some kind of friendship ...
    The second one. Kalinin received from the Soviet government the Kharkov aircraft factory! The whole plant, imagine! Unlike Sikorsky, who literally vegetated in America, he collected crumbs in the corners. And if not for the happy accident in the person of Sergei Rachmaninov, where would Sikorsky be at all ??? Things at least somehow went uphill only in the mid-1930s ... When Rachmaninoff began to give Sikorsky money! And Kalinin, thanks to Soviet power, had already built his aircraft in Kharkov since the mid-1920s. You feel the difference. Kalinin has been building his planes here in the USSR since 1925, runs the design bureau and the plant at his full disposal, and Sikorsky is looking for grandmothers in America, is rushing about with his projects that nobody needs there, because he has no money !! ! Here it is, America, a country of "equal opportunities"!
    The third. Kalinin consistently builds small passenger and ambulance aircraft - K-1, K-2, K-3, K-4, K-5.
    K-4, and especially K-5, go into mass production.
    Kalinin decides that he “grabbed God by the beard”, and literally “on his knee”, without preliminary calculations, “by eye” begins the construction of the giant K-7 aircraft. Fatal error! Even Tupolev, having TsAGI behind him, and this is a powerful scientific research base, did not take risks, and did not promise to build “giant planes” as quickly as Kalinin did!
    Fourth. Kalinin neglected the training and self-improvement of himself as an aircraft designer. He built in the old manner, by trial and error. Everything new in science passed him ... In the same way, Grigorovich tried to build her activities as an aircraft designer, and another “star” of the Soviet aircraft industry of those years. The result was logical: the plane crash, K-7 just fell apart in the air.
    Fifth: Trying to maintain its authority before the Soviet regime, and to get at its disposal also the Voronezh aircraft factory, I went into deliberate deceit! He promised the deliberately unattainable performance characteristics, and deliberately impracticable deadlines for the start of production of his unfinished "to mind" K-12 aircraft. Which, the "Firebird", a multi-purpose front-line reconnaissance aircraft, light bomber, spotter ... Lied and dodged as he could. The Soviet government did not forgive him ...
    For which he received ...
    In the basement of the Voronezh prison ...
    1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 14: 50 New
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      fighter angel (Alex)
      Fifth: Trying to maintain its authority before the Soviet regime, and to get at its disposal also the Voronezh aircraft factory, I went into deliberate deceit! He promised the deliberately unattainable performance characteristics, and deliberately impracticable deadlines for the start of production of his unfinished "to mind" K-12 aircraft. Which, the "Firebird", a multi-purpose front-line reconnaissance aircraft, light bomber, spotter ... Lied and dodged as he could. The Soviet government did not forgive him ...
      For which he received ...
      In the basement of the Voronezh prison ...
      Alexey hi such revelations for bakers as a Faberge sickle. I wanted to answer in the same spirit as you, but then I decided that it was only to spoil the poor to teach. At least urinate them in the eyes, all of God's dew. They do not see and do not want to see anything that stands out from their wretched vision of the world. For them, tsarist Russia is a country where milk rivers flowed in the jelly banks, where the peasants were completely literate, well-fed and happy. The fact that everything was exactly the opposite in their parallel reality does not fit. And it’s okay to take the periods of the rise of Russia, such as the Petrovsky or Catherine’s periods, but no, they take as an example precisely the period of the decline of Russia during its most worthless reign.
      Hence a simple conclusion, these are people for whom the decline of Russia is the main goal! That's it. Not for nothing they say, scratch the anti-Soviet you will see a Russophobe!
  • Sergey1987 13 November 2019 16: 21 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    And at the same time take an interest in what Korolev and many others sat.

    So you yourself take an interest and read. Everything is far-fetched.
    Grounds for arrest: testimonies of I.T. Kleimenov (executed), G.E. Langemak (executed), V.P. Glushko - all three called S.P. Korolev an accomplice of the counter-revolutionary Trotskyist organization inside the RNII, “Aimed at weakening the defense power in favor of fascism”
    He was charged under Article 58, on two points: 58-7 - “Undermining state industry ... committed for counter-revolutionary purposes by appropriate use of state institutions and enterprises, or opposing their normal activities”
    Do you really believe in this nonsense?
    1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 16: 55 New
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      Sergey1987 (Sergey)
      He was charged under Article 58, on two points: 58-7 - “Undermining state industry ... committed for counter-revolutionary purposes by appropriate use of state institutions and enterprises, or opposing their normal activities”
      I really believe! Because I really know that he was accused of creating absolutely unnecessary missiles that could not be aimed at the target due to the lack of appropriate materials and technologies, which he was warned about by other scientists. But Korolev was stubborn and eventually made 4 copies of the rocket each at a price comparable to the price of a bomber. As a result, not a single rocket missed the target, but didn’t even fly in the right direction. One of them fell on the bunker, where there were observers from the command of the Red Army. They also wanted to impute an attempt on attempted assassination, but the article was quickly canceled because there was no control on missiles; accordingly, he could not launch them purposefully. As a result, he was soldered and deservedly misplaced waste of state funds. So it's all about the case, learn the story!
      1. Sergey1987 14 November 2019 16: 40 New
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        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        I really believe!

        Do you believe that he deliberately weakened the military-industrial complex in order to sweeten fascist Germany? That's just funny. This is utter nonsense. And most importantly, unproven. The evidence is zero. In your opinion, he sat like this in the design bureau and thought, why not help the Germans help the military-industrial complex to weaken? Kindergarten.
        And about what you wrote further, you won’t throw off the link where did you read this?
        1. andrew42 19 November 2019 16: 47 New
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          On purpose, not on purpose .... On purpose, not on purpose ... What a babble! This is not the younger group of the kindergarten, but the defense industry! Moreover, in the country that remained with the hoe after the Citizen, surrounded on all sides by high-tech, heavily armed bourgeois, with the main doctrine of the Crusade against Communism. In a country that no one will give loans from over the hill. In a country that can rely solely on domestic resources - raw materials, financial, infrastructure, and most importantly, personnel! (to be nurtured). This is war, baby! This is a fight where people are preparing to kick you in a crowd. And if “they shot everyone”, then, as Jack Sparrow said, “where do they come from?” Who then created the pre-war military-industrial complex?
        2. Sergey1987 20 November 2019 13: 34 New
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          Quote: andrew42
          On purpose, not on purpose .... On purpose, not on purpose ... What a babble!

          Baby sculpts?))))) A passenger in this world without evidence can only talk, but it will still remain chatter, not evidence. And you can rave as much as you like, that Korolev worked for Germany or Luxembourg, or tried to destroy the military-industrial complex, without proof it will remain your ravings.
          Quote: andrew42
          And in the country left with a hoe after Citizens

          And here what country remained after the citizen to the fact that a lot of people on false charges were shot and put in prison?
          Quote: andrew42
          This is war, baby!

          )))))) But what are you? Unlike you kid, I was in a war, not a clown here to tell you what war is.
          Quote: andrew42
          And if “they shot everyone”, then, as Jack Sparrow said, “where do they come from?”

          And then everything fell into place. Boy go watch your fantasy and do not go into the conversation of an adult uncle.
        3. andrew42 29 November 2019 10: 21 New
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          Dear ex-uncle! For "boy" and "boy" you zealously got excited. I’m just exchanging a 50-tinnik, but I won’t start bragging about where I’ve been to anything else. And you, before shkryabat peremptory labels, think what you write.
  • Nasrat 13 November 2019 10: 02 New
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    But, before these events, Russian engineers built TransSib .. !!! 8,8 thousand km. without helicopters and all-terrain vehicles !!! When did BAM begin to build there ?????? and what is its length ??? and its length is 500 km shorter than the transiba !!! despite the fact that during the construction of BAM they used this very transib ....
    By the way, since the railways:
    In the peaceful years under Stalin, railways in Russia increased annually by only 900–950 kilometers. While under Nicholas II, even in the most difficult war years of the First World War, 2000 km of railways were built per year!
    1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 10: 19 New
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      NasRat (Evlampy Spiridonovich)
      In the peaceful years under Stalin, railways in Russia increased annually by only 900–950 kilometers. While under Nicholas II, even in the most difficult war years of the First World War, 2000 km of railways were built per year!
      Another nonsense of the patient.
      Maybe the answer lies in the fact that there was no such need to build railways so much? More precisely it was, but there were other priorities. How many factories were built under Nicholas and how many under Stalin?
      How many engines were produced under Nicholas? You can not puff - ZERO!
      How many planes, tanks, rifles, machine guns were produced in the Republic of Ingushetia and how many in the USSR?

      Another bunch crunch?
      1. Nasrat 13 November 2019 10: 35 New
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        Funny guys ... And in 1985, you compared your performance with 1913 ... Why do you think that by the 40s, tsarist engineers hadn’t built the same thing, but I’m sure more, only without repression?
        He provided Nicolas with a submarine fleet, by the way, many of the weapons that fought at the beginning of the Second World War - were still of royal production ..
        here is the 1913 turbine of the year of manufacture at the Putilov plant ... and when did such turbines begin to be made in the USSR?
        1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 10: 48 New
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          NasRat (Evlampy Spiridonovich)
          Funny guys ... You also compared your performance in 1985 with 1913 ...
          This happened with the traitor Khrushchev!
          Why do you think that by the 40s, tsarist engineers had not built the same thing, and I am sure more, only without repression?
          Because they did not do this by 1913. There was no industry in the Republic of Ingushetia from the word at all.
          here is the 1913 turbine of the year of manufacture at the Putilov plant ... and when did such turbines begin to be made in the USSR?

          You have one disgusting trait among the bakers, you take as an example some kind of crap that existed almost in a single copy and start with it it rushes like a written bag, but in fact it’s a complete zilch.

          I repeat for those who are on an armored train. How many factories were built under Nicholas II and how many under Stalin? How many airplanes, tanks, guns, rifles, machine guns, shells, ammunition and other equipment were fired with one and the other?

          Why the rear under Stalin worked as a single mechanism and ultimately ensured victory over the united Europe, and the rear under Nikolashka decomposed and rotted like a rotten tree and could not stand the war with Germany and Austria-Hungary, the Turks can hardly be counted. And for Germany, the eastern front was secondary, all the main battles took place on the western front.
          1. tesser 13 November 2019 14: 21 New
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            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            How many aircraft and tanks are produced

            When Nicholas? )))
            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            How many factories were built under Nicholas II

            About 40 thousand, EMNIP.
            In fact, you are partly right. If compared to 1913 there are no special changes in relative indicators, then there really is growth from the level of the beginning of the 20s, it is difficult to deny this. On the other hand, the structure of the economy compared with the same 1913 became much worse (more militarized), so the situation with consumer goods, frankly, is awful.
          2. Sugar Honeyovich 13 November 2019 17: 26 New
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            Quote: tesser
            How many factories were built under Nicholas II
            About 40 thousand

            Those. for 22 years? The Bolsheviks were proud of nine thousand for three five-year periods - one plant / factory per day. When the king, it turns out, 5 plants were introduced per day? Phenomenally !!! Das ist fiction!
            Interestingly, what kind of vegetable did the Bolsheviks need industrialization in general? Moreover, with the goal of “transforming our country from an agrarian to an industrial one, capable of producing the necessary equipment on its own,” “protect it from becoming an appendage of world capitalism” (I. Stalin)
          3. tesser 13 November 2019 18: 00 New
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            Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
            Those. for 22 years?

            Not sure exactly for 22. This is the number of factories for 1913.
            Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
            Moreover, with the goal of “transforming our country from agrarian to industrial, capable of producing the necessary equipment on its own”

            Comrade Stalin needed tanks, and these NEPmans produced primus tanks at best.
          4. Sugar Honeyovich 14 November 2019 06: 02 New
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            The question was: how many factories were built under Nicholas II, and not how many were built during it. As of 01.01.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX, there were over nine thousand enterprises in the USSR. Especially with artels making primus. This is not counting private entrepreneurs: tailor shoemakers, dental technicians, etc.
          5. tesser 14 November 2019 07: 50 New
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            Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
            Especially with artels making primus. This is not counting private entrepreneurs

            Yes, private entrepreneurs, red artisans. Something is recalled.
  • Mordvin 3 13 November 2019 22: 15 New
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    Quote: Nasr
    here is the 1913 turbine of the year of manufacture at the Putilov plant ... and when did such turbines begin to be made in the USSR?

    So they did. And where is he, the Kirov plant?
  • Edvid 16 November 2019 23: 44 New
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    An example of the history of the development of Primorye. What struck me the most was that we knew about the gas field in Artem a hundred years ago. And nothing has changed...
    Primorsky Territory, the city of Artem, the history of mines.
    gazeta-vibor.ru
    EVERYTHING BEGINS FROM THE OLD
    In 1891-1896 During the construction of the railway in the Khurchizy (Coal) region, outcrops of coal seams were noticed. And the first to start building low-power mines and pits in 1898 was businessman Alexey Startsev.
    Alexei Dmitrievich established tea trade from China, was engaged in building in Vladivostok and on the island of Putyatin, where he founded the Rodnoe estate from scratch. His sons Dmitry, Alexander and Nikolai worthily continued the work of his father. Among many other things, they were engaged in the development of coal mining.
    Let us turn to the historical essay, which was later written by Aleksei Aleksandrovich Startsev and Aleksei Viktorovich Shereshev.
    “In 1909, advancing along the Suchan railway, the Starets prospectors discovered coal deposits outside the village of Uglovoye. An application has been made. Startsev separated four mine branches ... right behind the village, three on the north side of the road, one on the south. In the years 1910-1911, the elders ’branches from the main reservoir were leased to Leonid Leopoldovich Artz. This Pole left a good memory in Corner, having built a school and a church. ”
    In total, there were five mines on the territory of the Corner.
    And then the Startsevs did not run away from the Soviet regime. They believed Lenin, who said that "the NEP is seriously and for a long time." They knew that the words of Stalin had already been heard: "Comrade Lenin said that the NEP is for a long time, but he never said that forever." But they tried to get coal mines working. Here is what Dmitry Alekseevich wrote in his autobiography: “In 1924, with the approval of the Primorsky Mining Administration, I started to build a major large mine at Uglovsky 1st mine with an output capacity of 25 coal wagons per day. Pumps threw up to 5000 buckets of water per hour ... Working conditions were very difficult, but we laid a railway line of 1,5 versts. At this time, the liquidation of the private coal industry began. Many mines stood up ...
    Officials came with great power, but no responsibility. And in the fall a typhoon of terrible power passed ... ”
    These lines affirmed life. The brothers proposed a project for the construction of a power plant with a capacity of 15000 kilowatts of gas to reduce the cost of electric energy itself, presented plans for the construction of a large chemical plant with the production of gasoline, creosote, engine oils. There were many other practical suggestions. During the coal crisis in the winter of 1929-1930, Dmitry proposed to develop new deposits. And the Mining Department agreed with him, but the court sentenced him to two years in prison, which he replaced with expulsion from the region. Then he was ranked as a pest.
  • fighter angel 13 November 2019 14: 30 New
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    NasRat.
    Well, and how many ordinary people did the "king-father" and others like him at the Trans-Siberian construction site?
    And at other railway sites?
    How many bones are there under each railroad tie?
    And how many were shot, sent to hard labor for "unrest" in the construction?
    1. Nasrat 13 November 2019 15: 45 New
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      . According to V.F. Borzunov, from different years from 3,6 thousand to 15 thousand workers from European Russia, Central Siberian from 3 thousand to 11 thousand, Transbaikal from 2,5, were involved in the construction of the West Siberian section of the highway 4,5 thousand to 1891 thousand. A significant part of the builders were exiled prisoners and soldiers. The continuous replenishment of labor in the construction of the highway was due to the attraction of Siberian peasants and townspeople and the influx of peasants and philistines from European Russia. In total, at the construction of the Trans-Siberian Railway in 9600, at the beginning of construction, there were 1895 people, and in 1896-84, in the midst of construction work. - 89-1904 thousand, in 5300, at the final stage - only 1910 people. On the construction of the Amur Railway in 20, XNUMX thousand people worked.
      1. fighter angel 13 November 2019 16: 23 New
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        NasRat.
        Have you tried to read my question carefully? No?
        I’m not talking about how much worked on the construction of the site,
        and how many people were killed and died there, from injuries, from illnesses, epidemics, intolerable living and working conditions ... How many were killed in the "pacification of the riots", and then convicted and exiled ...
        What is V.F.Borzunov writing / saying about this?
  • Mordvin 3 13 November 2019 19: 47 New
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    Quote: Nasr
    While under Nicholas II, even in the most difficult war years of the First World War, 2000 km of railways were built per year!

    On the bones of the German grenadiers.
  • RUSS 13 November 2019 11: 48 New
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    Quote: Nasr
    Uncle, all Soviet industrialization, all the military-industrial complex - was designed and created by an American Albert Kahn with his small company from Detroit Albert Kahn Associates Incorporated ..
    Who do you think designed and built (and where did he build !?) Stalingrad, Chelyabinsk tractor plants? I will answer you - the Americans, and built in America, the Stalingrad Tractor - the Americans built in 6 months !!! ...
    Why ask the Americans build? But because there were no domestic specialists at that time !!! Someone against the wall, and who managed to run abroad !! They are proletarians ...

    Soviet hydroelectric power plants were also built with the help of American engineers
  • zenion 13 November 2019 15: 52 New
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    Just in America, the Great Depression began and hundreds of thousands of professional workers and thousands of engineers were left without work. If not for the USSR, they would have died of hunger. And the USSR saved not only them, not free of charge, but also their families. Many of the engineers, having become accustomed to well, called their families to themselves and remained forever in the USSR. I know because I lived in Sverdlovsk and was familiar with some who continued to work, both in design bureaus and in workshops.
  • Sugar Honeyovich 13 November 2019 17: 16 New
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    Quote: Nasr
    all Soviet industrialization, all the military-industrial complex - the American designed and created

    Quote: Nasr
    But because there were no domestic specialists at that time !!!

    According to one of these Americans, D. Scott: “three hundred or four hundred German and American specialists” took part in the construction of the Magnitogorsk Iron and Steel Works, of which, by 1936, “there were only about half a dozen left.” This is from the general staff of the "quarter of a million" people. Repeatedly mentions the "old" Russian engineers.
    For comparison - in 1 MV for the purchase of VINTOVOK (not the construction of factories!), The government of N. A. Romanov brought Americans nearly 2 BILLION in gold. The Americans successfully failed the order ... They did not return the money.
  • Mordvin 3 13 November 2019 19: 08 New
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    Quote: Nasr
    Uncle, all Soviet industrialization, all the military-industrial complex - was designed and created by an American Albert Kahn with his small company from Detroit Albert Kahn Associates Incorporated ..

    Spiridonych, have you completely collapsed from oak? Ah, Alik Kann built everything! And he designed industrialization. No, Spiridonych, you definitely need to drink bromine.
  • Doctor 13 November 2019 12: 19 New
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    Well, the fact that some designers were locked in sharazhki was for their own good.

    In one phrase, the whole essence of Stalinism.
  • tesser 13 November 2019 13: 42 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    who do you think developed the ZIS-3,

    The artillery unit L. A. Bishlyak, K. M. Sokolovsky and K. I. Lipnitsky, 1902. Grabin - gun carriage, alteration for current technological processes.
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    T-34

    A group of enemies of the people. Gypsies, dick, etc.
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    HF

    A group of Leningrad comrades, the main ones, did not seem to be shot. In addition to the customer - the enemy of the people of Pavlov.
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    La 5/7, Yak 1/7/9/3, who

    Enemy of the people of Polycarp.
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    Well, the fact that some designers were locked in sharazhki was for their own good.

    + + + + + +
    drinks
    Particularly lucky were those who were shot.
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    and the waste of public money on empty projects also took place.

    Naturally, the guard is better to know.
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    spies can and will hunt, so it’s very wise to hide him in a sharazhka during the war.

    What other spies? He is a spy himself. And the Trotskyist.
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    Grabin, at his own peril and risk, in violation of all conceivable instructions, put his ZIS-3 on stream

    Grabin, with all due respect, loved to lie. He made this gun on the instructions of Kulik, who, by the way, was also an enemy of the people.
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    there would be no flight into space

    It never was. The Queen and Glushko were not shot purely by oversight.
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    and there wouldn’t be a nuclear bomb either!

    Useful and stolen.
    1. Nasrat 13 November 2019 14: 07 New
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      It is useless to write ... adherents cannot see the real picture ... they hammered it all their lives and suddenly this is what you write about !!! this is the collapse of their whole life ...
    2. fighter angel 13 November 2019 15: 47 New
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      tesser

      "... who do you think was developing
      .... La 5/7, Yak 1/7/9/3,
      Enemy of the people of Polikarpov ... "

      A masterpiece! You have surpassed yourself!
      Try to heal with electricity ...
      1. tesser 13 November 2019 15: 54 New
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        Quote: fighter angel
        A masterpiece! You have surpassed yourself!

        In your reality, did the Jacob line and the Laggov line have nothing to do with the Polikarpovsky Design Bureau?
        1. fighter angel 13 November 2019 16: 04 New
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          Why not Mozhaisky?
          Everything went from him! Ashnik back in 1886 ....
  • RUSS 13 November 2019 09: 20 New
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    The author writes that Stalin is a leader, a priest, and probably it is, and Stalin is an idol and a god for neopagans and idolaters.
    1. brat07 17 November 2019 19: 13 New
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      Quote: RUSS
      The author writes that Stalin is a leader, a priest, and probably it is, and Stalin is an idol and a god for neopagans and idolaters.

      And here is what I "dig" on the Internet:
      Everyone knows that from the words “he accepted the country with a plow, but left it with a nuclear bomb,” Winston Churchill did not say anything about Joseph Stalin. But what did he really say?

      Part one:
      “I have only one goal - to destroy Hitler, and this greatly simplifies my life. If Hitler invaded hell, I would at least speak favorably about Satan in the House of Commons. ”

      Winston Churchill in a conversation with his secretary Colville on June 21, 1941, according to which the phrase was quoted in Churchill's memoirs “World War II” (vol. 3, pr. 1, chap. 20). For these memoirs, Churchill, by the way, received the 1953 Nobel Prize in literature.

      Part two:
      “Russia was very lucky that when it was agonized, it was led by such a tough military leader. This is an outstanding personality, suitable for harsh times. A man is inexhaustibly bold, domineering, direct in actions and even rude in his statements ... However, he retained a sense of humor, which is very important for all people and nations, and especially for big people and great nations. Stalin also impressed me with his cool-blooded wisdom, in the complete absence of any illusions. ”

      Winston Churchill, speech in the British Parliament on September 8, 1942 following a visit to Moscow.

      A couple of Churchill quotes that I personally copied from the original documents at the Pobedny 1945 exhibition, which was held April 20 - June 30, 2005 at the Exhibition Hall of the Federal Archives. By the way, documents from eight archives of the country were presented at the exhibition, including documents that were actually closed to researchers, such as the Central Archive of the FSB or the archive of the Federal Security Service of Russia.

      Here is Churchill’s telegram congratulation on Stalin’s birthday: “Your life is precious not only for your country, which you saved, but also for the cause of friendship between Soviet Russia and Great Britain and even the whole English-speaking world, friendship, on which the future happiness of mankind depends "

      And here is what he wrote in his portrait, donated to Joseph Vissarionovich: “Marshal and Prime Minister Stalin, who, leading the Russian army and Soviet government, defeated the main forces of the German military machine and helped all the united nations open the way to peace, justice and freedom. From him Winston S. Churchill's friend. "
  • sniperino 13 November 2019 11: 48 New
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    Quote: Far In
    If it were even less demolished by the "civilization of the USSR / Rus and the enemies of their Anglo-Saxons"
    This is only one part of the design. Against the backdrop of a false choice (the USSR - the enslavement of the Anglo-Saxons), a quasi-problem is being drawn: our power is on the side of the Anglo-Saxons. If an ordinary man pulls such a pan over his head, he is unlikely to think about democratic transformations. The Ukrainian saucepan is structurally similar.
  • Gardamir 13 November 2019 06: 04 New
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    Unexpected article.
    1. Uncle lee 13 November 2019 07: 02 New
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      The cult of youth, education, strength and purity has been created.
      What now, unfortunately, no ...
      "Communism is the youth of the world,
      And build it young "!
      1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 08: 46 New
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        Uncle Lee (Vladimir)
        "Communism is the youth of the world,

        And the battle continues again
        And the heart is anxious in the chest
        And Lenin is so young
        And young October is ahead ...

        I know the city will be
        I know the garden bloom
        When are such people
        In the Soviet country there is ...

        Wonderful poems and wonderful people were!
        How much dirt has been poured on Stalin for 66 years now, and he is becoming ever more alive!

        I recalled a joke. Reception at the US Embassy. At the reception, the American ambassador boasts to Molotov that there is a shaman in the United States who can revive people. Molotov listened and said that in the USSR there is a person capable of overtaking a plane.
        The next day, Khrushchev Molotov calls in and says, why are you spitting out about a man-plane?
        Molotov - well, let them first introduce their shaman.
        Khrushchev - and if present?
        Molotov - well, then we will ask him to revive someone.
        Khrushchev - and whom to revive?
        Molotov - well, for example, Stalin.
        Khrushchev - and if he revives ...?!
        Molotov - and then you are Nikita not only a plane, you will overtake a rocket!
  • rusin 13 November 2019 06: 18 New
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    And in the photo, the diehard fighter against capitalism, Dzhugashvili (pseudonym Ironman) kisses the gift of the English king ... Samsonov, what are you shooting at!
    1. Same lech 13 November 2019 06: 29 New
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      And in the photo, the diehard fighter against capitalism, Dzhugashvili (pseudonym Ironman) kisses the gift of the English king ...

      It depends on which side to look ...
      it is a symbol of the victory of the USSR over Nazi Germany in Stalingrad is not a sin to kiss him.
      By the way, the Red Army used the Lendlizovskaya American stew with pleasure, would you really call the Red Army fighters agents of the damned West.
      1. Ross xnumx 13 November 2019 08: 17 New
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        Quote: The same Lech
        By the way, the Red Army used the Lendlizovskaya American stew with pleasure, would you really call the Red Army fighters agents of the damned West.

        good
        Then what are the facts?
    2. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 08: 15 New
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      Rusin Today, 06:18
      And in the photo, the diehard fighter against capitalism, Dzhugashvili (pseudonym Ironman) kisses the gift of the English king.
      To begin with, they would ask who and why this gift was made. We gave more than a million lives of our fathers and grandfathers for Stalingrad, and the English king, admiring the courage of our soldiers, made this gift to the defenders of Stalingrad.
      By the way, now this gift can be seen in the museum-panorama of the Battle of Stalingrad. Personally, I saw him.
  • vomag 13 November 2019 06: 19 New
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    It seems to be a good article .. Stalin is Stalin now ... he and that .. he and that! Stalin did not hold government posts from 1924 to July 19, 1941! What era of Stalin? It was a country of soviets! That's what they are trying to hide from YOU .. what everything was decided by a simple PEOPLE by direct vote ....
    1. Procopius Nesterov 13 November 2019 06: 36 New
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      And how many parties participated in the election?
      1. Olgovich 13 November 2019 07: 29 New
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        Quote: Procopius Nesterov
        And how many parties participated in the election?

        One, naturally - and this is the GREAT merit of "a society of creation, knowledge, service." yes

        The people were saved not only from the torment of choice (and this is the most severe torment), but even from the need to think: they knew everything, they already thought out and chose a caring party!

        But the people had enormous rights: to admire the care and wisdom of the party, to build, serve, and know their place.
        1. Boris55 13 November 2019 08: 31 New
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          Quote: Olgovich
          But the people had enormous rights: to admire the care and wisdom of the party, to build, serve, and know their place.

          After Khrushchev removed the people from control, that was the only thing left ...

          In order to choose something, you must have an idea of ​​what we choose and for what. Do we have to know all the subtleties of management? Are we obligated to be economists? Are we obligated to be financiers? Are we required to be lawyers? What else are we obliged to be and how many institutions must we complete in order to understand everything? Yes, and do we need it? If everyone becomes economists, financiers, lawyers, then who will work - come in large numbers?

          1. Olgovich 13 November 2019 12: 14 New
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            Quote: Boris55
            After Khrushchev suspended people from management, only that remained ...

            Tell HOW people ruled BEFORE Khrushchev
            [quote = Boris55] Do we have to know all the subtleties of control? Are we obligated to be economists? Are we obligated to be financiers? Are we obligated to be lawyers? What else are we obliged to be and how many institutions must we complete to understand everything? Yes, and do we need it? If everyone becomes economists, financiers, lawyers, then who will work - come along? [/ Quote]
            Tell WHO must to be them? Who owes and on what basis? yes
            1. Gardamir 13 November 2019 13: 17 New
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              Who owes
              Well, let's put now all these artists and athletes, in the Duma, too, do not control anything.
              1. Olgovich 13 November 2019 13: 54 New
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                Quote: Gardamir
                Well, let's put now all these artists and athletes, in the Duma, too, do not control anything.

                they CAN do it.
                Then no. Even theoretically.
        2. SOVIET UNION 2 13 November 2019 08: 58 New
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          There was one idea. And she showed her worth. A lot of parties? Party is what? Is a beer lovers party a party? Is a party of animal lovers a party? In modern Russia, how many parties? What kind of government do they care about? There was more than one presidential candidate in the last election. So what? Was there a choice or not? What rights do people have today? Where is his place? Have a bucket? How today are the labor achievements of simple hard workers? Do they compose songs and make films about them?
          1. Procopius Nesterov 13 November 2019 12: 18 New
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            So you can leave one batch of United Russia? How did you get that people from the bucket? Judge for yourself?
            People do not vote for the Communist Party. Why did you think that everyone thinks like you and there should be one party without a choice.
            1. Gardamir 13 November 2019 13: 18 New
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              What makes you think that people do not vote for the Communist Party.
              Only rearranged in places, but how beautiful.
            2. SOVIET UNION 2 13 November 2019 17: 29 New
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              Well, if the servants of the people drive luxury cars and live in chic mansions! It’s scary to imagine how then people live well! Salary from one to several minimum wages in units? Everyone drives foreign cars for at least a million? And who then rides in rusty gazelles? People still drive cars of the 70s. Is it probably expensive rarities? Or is it just that I'm so stupid and impoverished? All the normal ones are already driving foreign cars. But the basins flicker even in Moscow. This is also rogue people ride them? If our police travel from sevens to priors, are they rogue too? Or is this state so impoverished that even the police cannot provide foreign cars? And optimization of medicine, when all medical services are driven into a large city. And as for one party, so it is. And one. This is a lot of moneybags. And she will crush competitors.
              1. Procopius Nesterov 13 November 2019 18: 37 New
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                Previously, officials did not ride bicycles either.
                As for cars from people, last year 1 million 800 thousand new cars were bought. In the USSR, 1985 million 1 thousand were produced in 300. We divide this figure by 2 since the USSR had 2 times the population, it turns out 650 thousand .That is, now people in Russia can afford to buy 3 times more new cars.
          2. Olgovich 13 November 2019 12: 57 New
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            Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
            How today are the labor achievements of simple hard workers? Do they compose songs and make films about them?

            The father-in-law worked for 45 years as a driver on a postal machine of the Ministry of Communications (and this in the rain, in the snow, at night) - die, but deliver.

            left: foot diplomas, "drummer ST", VT medal. All. He did not leave ANYTHING for the children: no apartment, no car, no money. All.
            1. SOVIET UNION 2 13 November 2019 17: 32 New
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              Today, the driver of the postal machine will also not leave the apartment, the car and the means. But the song about him will not be added up and the film will not be shot, and his work will remain completely without attention. Today they look at him through the void.
              1. Olgovich 14 November 2019 10: 08 New
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                Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
                Today, the driver of the postal machine will also not leave the apartment, the car and the means.

                The car is available to almost everyone today.
                And to earn today, having a working profession, you can, have ALL the opportunities.

                Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
                But the song about him will not be added up and the film will not be shot, and his work will remain completely without attention. Today they look at him through the void.

                I have three award-winning crunch vases, certificates, badge.
                And?
                WHY do they give me money?
      2. Boris55 13 November 2019 08: 15 New
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        Quote: Procopius Nesterov
        And how many parties participated in the election?

        Any party strives for omnipotence, and its leader strives for sole domination.
        The Soviets of People's Deputies included communists, and there were non-partisans. All of them were chosen by labor collectives.

      3. vomag 14 November 2019 13: 29 New
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        Excuse me, but can I ask what elections? where is the election? who is the election? where are the elections? what year did the elections take place?
  • Obi-Wan Kenobi 13 November 2019 06: 26 New
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    A WORD TO COMRADE STALIN
    ---------------------------
    It came without waiting for a call
    It came by itself - and not to restrain him ...
    Let me tell you this word,
    A simple word of my heart.
    That day has come. Deadlines are over.
    The earth again found its peace.
    Thank you for your high deed,
    For your hard work.
    Thank you for the years of testing
    You helped us withstand the struggle.
    We believed you so, Comrade Stalin,
    How, perhaps, they did not believe themselves.
    You were our stronghold and guarantee
    That the enemies do not get away from reckoning.
    Let me shake your hand tight
    Bow to the earth
    For your loyalty to the motherland,
    For your wisdom and for your honor,
    For the purity and truth of your life,
    For the fact that you are who you are.
    Thank you for the days of great tribulation
    You thought about us all in the Kremlin,
    For being with us everywhere
    Because you live on earth.
    21.12.1949
    1. Olgovich 13 November 2019 07: 38 New
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      Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
      You thought about us all in the Kremlin,
      For being with us everywhere
      Because you live on earth.

      Exactly:

      Stalin!

      Favorite! You are a resident of my soul!

      I wanted to compare you with the prophet

      I could not compare you with the prophet.

      The prophet could not speak the truth! ..

      I wanted to compare you with the ocean,

      I could not compare you with the ocean!

      And in the ocean sometimes ships

      With open bottoms they are sitting aground ...

      I wanted to compare with the North Star,

      I wanted to compare you with the mountains,

      I could not compare you with the mountains!

      Of the mountains you are not equal to none -

      At each mountain, the peak is visible ...

      And I wanted to compare you with the sun,

      I could not compare you with the sun!

      Maybe the sun can sometimes change, -

      It shines only on clear days.

      Stalin burns like an eternal flame!
      .
      yes
      1936, D. Dzhabaev
      1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 08: 22 New
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        Olgovich (Andrey)
        And I wanted to compare you with the sun,
        I could not compare you with the sun!
        Maybe the sun can sometimes change, -
        It shines only on clear days.
        Stalin burns like an eternal flame !. yes
        1936, D. Dzhabaev
        For those who are especially stubborn, watch the newsreel of Joseph Stalin’s funeral. Or say that the terrible NKVDeshniki drove everyone out of the house and made them cry from grief from grief.

        No matter how you get hungry here, but for that generation, Stalin was really the FATHER OF THE PEOPLE! And your manure will sweep away from his grave. They will always remember him, but they will forget about you the very next day after your priests sing. Yes, and rightly so!
        1. Olgovich 13 November 2019 10: 58 New
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          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          For those who are especially stubborn, watch the newsreel of Joseph Stalin’s funeral. Or say that the terrible NKVDeshniki drove everyone out of the house and made them cry from grief from grief.

          You ... didn’t like the poem ?! belay request

          You need to familiarize yourself with the results of the vote at the 20th Congress of the CPSU by resolution "on the condemnation of the cult of personality.
          “For” voted UNANIMOUSLY.

          Tens of thousands of monuments were demolished after millions of books were seized: WHERE are millions of demontrations, uprisings, etc.?
          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          manure sweeps away from his grave.

          And before that? belay request
  • andrewkor 13 November 2019 06: 31 New
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    My mother told me that ordinary people sincerely mourned the death of Joseph Vissarionovich and with fear awaited at that time that Enemies from the West would again unleash the War against the USSR.
    My relatives are from the bottom of Soviet society. Uncle, aunt, mother are orphans from Chelyabinsk, father and his brothers are fatherless, peasants from Kuzbass. Year of birth -1925 and younger. Uncle - military doctor in the Airborne Forces, officer, father - an ordinary front-line intelligence officer, both went through the war, both order bearers. The father became an officer - a tanker.
    Mom and aunt are nurses, uncles remained in the village to peasantry, all machine operators, visited them on vacation - well, very wealthy, by the standards of the 60s.
    In fairness, I note that one of the brothers served the "spikelets", but remained alive.
    The most negative memory is the queue for bread, when the corn was thrown off, I still remember the taste of bread with corn flour, a little sweet.
    And then the notorious "stagnation" with the conquest of Cosmos, BAM, when the future is predetermined, in the good sense of this concept!
    1. Van 16 13 November 2019 09: 10 New
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      The same thing, and grandparents (and collectivization went through the war, it would seem darned dashing) treated Stalin with great respect. By the way, as with Beria, which I was surprised at the time, we were told something else about Beria, and they continue to tell us.
  • Procopius Nesterov 13 November 2019 06: 35 New
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    The Communists have something with their heads. Emperor Stalin, sounds like the Secretary General of the CPSU, Nikolai II.
    Stalin secretary general. So would write the red secretary general.
    1. sergo1914 13 November 2019 06: 47 New
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      Quote: Procopius Nesterov
      The Communists have something with their heads.


      Right They not only eat it. And they say it by mouth. There are additional features. This opportunity offends some.
    2. Same lech 13 November 2019 06: 47 New
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      The Communists have something with their heads.

      Real communists are idealistic romanticists ... usually divorced from the realities of life. smile
      Because the Communists of the USSR lost the decaying West.
      Recently I watched the argument of Platoshkin and Solovyov (laughed) ... it resembles the argument of a blind man with a deaf-mute. smile about which hand to hold a spoon for dinner.
    3. SOVIET UNION 2 13 November 2019 09: 08 New
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      Everything is normal with the head. There was a Red Empire. Stalin really created the Empire, unlike the liberals. So no dissonance! But Putin is now called the king. And today we have a real kingdom. There is a higher class and a lower one. The higher can influence politics; the lower cannot. For the higher, its own laws; for the lower, others. One all the humanity of justice, the other all the severity of the law. One all the benefits, the other one duties. One tax incentive, the other state tax (for the right to live). One salary at the request, another salary at the minimum wage.
      1. Procopius Nesterov 13 November 2019 12: 47 New
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        You fantasize some garbage. Can you quote Lenin or Stalin that they are building the Empire?
        They also destroyed the Russian Empire, and created 15 states with the right to exit under the USSR constitution.
        1. SOVIET UNION 2 13 November 2019 17: 14 New
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          The empire was in fact. And influenced half the world. hi
        2. Edvid 17 November 2019 00: 03 New
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          Having seized power, the Bolsheviks began to distribute the territory of the empire. For example, the southern coast of the Caspian Sea-Iran, a number of territories of the Caucasus-Turkey ... They eliminated the provinces by dividing the country by national auls, generously endowing new republics with territories they did not belong to - take the same Kazakhstan ..
      2. sniperino 13 November 2019 13: 10 New
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        Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
        There is a higher class and a lower one. The higher can influence politics; the lower cannot. For the higher, its own laws; for the lower, others. One all the humanity of justice, the other all the severity of the law. One all the benefits, the other one duties.
        I found out! Is this the USSR from about the mid 70s?
  • DNS-a42 13 November 2019 06: 48 New
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    The article does not tell anything interesting and informative about Stalin. Better read Stalin himself (complete works), that’s where the storehouse of knowledge is.
  • Moskovit 13 November 2019 07: 07 New
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    Under Khrushchev, no matter how he was scolded, millions of Soviet people learned what hot water from the tap was, what a toilet was not on the street. Collective farmers began to receive money. They were able to move freely around the country. Punitive organs were driven under a bench. About the time of Stalin, sighing now is simply ridiculous. Nobody lived then, including Samsonov.
    1. Same lech 13 November 2019 07: 12 New
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      Punitive organs were driven under a bench.

      Yeah ... if now they are driven out from under the shops in the sun, they will sober up with the dissenters from the heart ... 99 percent of the members of the forum will crawl for seditious thoughts against the government and the state along the stage in Magadan.
      So far, GDP does not allow them to roam.
      1. Moskovit 13 November 2019 08: 03 New
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        Yes, they themselves are now more profitable to sit on cash flows than chasing criminals.))

        On the other hand, I would not want the child to be splashed out with water.
        State planning and tight control over the implementation of state programs, the responsibility of officials and employees of bodies - this can be learned from the IVS.
      2. SOVIET UNION 2 13 November 2019 09: 20 New
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        And under Stalin there was an article for seditious thoughts? Listen to anti-Stalinists, then there was an article for a joke about Stalin. and an article for wiping your ass with a portrait of Stalin from a newspaper. And how terrible it was then! Tolley business life in the 90s began to improve! From a good life they began to set iron doors. window grilles, high fences, video cameras. Protection has become not only the first persons of the state, but also everyone who has the loot! And how safe it has become on the streets since the 90s! Could easily shoot or kill in another way. How many videos have been shown about executions on the street, at home, near the house! And how many corpses were found in the forest belts! And irons and soldering irons for making money! Who doesn’t let the GDP go? If you stole millions, they did not find the crime. He borrowed a few thousand rubles from the bank, confiscation! Stunned life! Money loan at 2%! Not bad!? In a day! Great? So who doesn’t let anyone go for a walk? Funnels arrived at night !? And the collectors do not bother?
        1. Same lech 13 November 2019 09: 25 New
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          The era of Stalin is gone ... what can I say ... do you really think people like Zakharchenko and Cherkalin should get freedom of action from GDP ... if there is no ideology in the state, it is difficult to demand loyal thoughts from the citizens to power ... each is left to his own devices. .. is it good or bad? ... I don’t know ... time will tell.
    2. Aviator_ 13 November 2019 08: 16 New
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      Clear. Without Khrushchev, no one would have let hot water into the tap. It was forbidden.
      1. Moskovit 13 November 2019 08: 56 New
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        Under Khrushchev, a massive relocation of people from barracks and huts began to more or less normal housing. Not everyone was lucky to be a general or an academician and live in stalin. There were ordinary workers who were also worthy of living in human conditions.
        1. Boris55 13 November 2019 09: 33 New
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          Quote: Moskovit
          Under Khrushchev, a massive relocation of people from barracks and huts began to more or less normal housing.

          Even the people prefer more and more Stalin than Khrushchev.
          You forget that under Stalin, the country survived the most bloody war.
          1. evgen1221 13 November 2019 11: 56 New
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            And take an interest when the project of these same Khrushchevs was developed, be surprised. Under Stalin! With Khrushchev, mass construction began because the panel plants still had to be built and began to be built at the temporary detention center. And the name Khrushchev was simply due to the coincidence of time with the Khrushchev rule.
            1. Moskovit 13 November 2019 15: 54 New
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              Not so simple. There were projects. Experimental buildings were under construction, but it was Khrushchev who gave the ticket to life for mass construction and, in general, a change in the concept of new housing estates.
              It was he who embodied the principle of moving away from elitism to mass.
        2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 13 November 2019 15: 06 New
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          By the way, these were the achievements of the times of Stalin, just like many of the achievements of the early twentieth century were carried out not under Nikolai Alexandrovich Romanov-II, but under Lenin or later in the 1940-70s: either hands did not reach, then industry did not allow, then war then other problems ... By the way, both the BAM and the Moscow Metro are the developments of our pre-revolutionary Russian engineers, and were built, as you know, in the 1930s.
        3. Pavel57 14 November 2019 13: 17 New
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          When Khrushchev was fired by his party comrades, a list of his sins was rolled out to him - and that’s it.
    3. RUSS 13 November 2019 09: 23 New
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      Quote: Moskovit
      what is a toilet not on the street

      Now it’s hard to believe, but there wasn’t toilet paper in the USSR until 1968.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. RUSS 13 November 2019 11: 55 New
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          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          built DneproGES and

          the legendary giant dam, which became a symbol of Soviet industrialization - Dneproges - was mainly built by the Americans. In particular, five unusually powerful generators were built by General Motors. They say that while the station was being built, construction manager Alexander Winter turned gray in the literal sense of the word. The well-known power engineer could not reconcile with the negligence and drunkenness of the Soviet workers.
          At the time of the development of the Dneproges project, there was no experience in the construction of large hydrotechnical facilities either in the Soviet Union or in Europe. He went to America for him. So, the creators of the Zaporizhzhya hydroelectric power plant got acquainted with Hugh Cooper, the future consultant for the construction of the first hydroelectric station on the Dnieper and the first foreign citizen awarded the Order of the Red Banner of Labor (another 5 US specialists involved in the construction received the same award). The practical experience of the American military engineer obtained in the construction of hydropower plants in the Mississippi and Niagara significantly helped in the construction of the largest facility of the first Soviet five-year plan. In addition to a significant contribution to the technical equipment of the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station (it was in the United States that turbines were built to order for a future hydroelectric power station), American experts proposed to provide for the project to use a dam for rail traffic. At first it was about the railway, but in the end only a branch was built for the movement of the tram, which went along the dam until the war.

          In the appointment of Cooper (by the way - a self-taught engineer) as the chief consultant of Dneprostroy, the decisive role was played directly by Stalin, who gave him preference over the German company Siemens AG for political reasons.
          About five hundred enterprises in the USSR were built by the American company of industrial architect Albert Kahn. In order to hide the participation of foreign specialists and not emphasize their own personnel helplessness, all foreign firms were renamed in the Soviet way. In particular, Kan’s enterprise was called “Gosproektstroy”.
          1. maden.usmanow 15 November 2019 01: 25 New
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            That's how bad you are. They took and destroyed all the Soviet agitations that the States were the country of the 3rd world. Before WWII
      2. VeteranVSSSR 13 November 2019 23: 38 New
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        And ballpoint pens were the machinations of imperialism ...
    4. boriz 13 November 2019 12: 08 New
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      The war had not ended yet, Stalin sent Mikoyan to France to study the experience of large-scale housing construction, to purchase equipment for DSK, then they designed and built DSK and set up the production of their equipment. Khrushchev came to the ready, with him the process was completed. But he ruined him. What Stalin saw at home, we can appreciate the "Stalin". Khrushchev reduced the Stalinist plans to the Khrushchev’s livestock. Whatever he took, he would ruin and ruin everything.
      As for the repressions, during the years of repression Khrushchev was the most bloodthirsty customer of additional quotas for executions.
      1. tesser 13 November 2019 14: 42 New
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        Quote: boriz
        What Stalin saw at home, we can appreciate the "Stalin". Khrushchev reduced the Stalinist plans to the Khrushchev’s livestock.

        Stalinki by panel-frame construction? Strong.
  • apro 13 November 2019 07: 25 New
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    Creating a new type of society is not a quick process .. especially when devastation alternates with war. IV Stalin was able to formulate. But the creation of an economic base for the country's independence dragged on resources plus military danger ..
  • Mcar 13 November 2019 07: 29 New
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    The article is good, but not without cliches. For instance:
    ... hard work for a small reward (for example, on collective farms).


    For example, on collective farms, depending on the region, the norm of workdays was from 60 to 100. If I am not mistaken, it was only slightly raised during the war.

    To understand what a workday is. This is not from morning to evening, and not 8 hours, as in a factory. A workday is a certain amount of work, like a chord system. Those. sow a certain amount of grain, or mow a certain amount of hay, or plow a certain amount of arable land, or ... in short, do a certain amount of work. And how much you will do is your business. You can pull at least all day, but you can do in half a day. And how else we had drummers doing 400-700 workdays per year, where 365 days are known.

    Above the norm no one could force to do. They could only entreat, persuade in strada, relying on sayings and proverbs de feeds one day a year, etc.

    Oil painting!
    Some did their 100 workdays (maybe 50 days), and then they went about their business all year, for example, they sat in the bazaar - they traded surpluses of personal plots. And were considered the builders of communism. Naturally, they received a little, but compensated outside the collective farm work, with earnings.
    Others did 500 or more workdays and, in addition to receiving well, they also had vouchers to the southern seas, valuable and scarce items, as well as simply large cash bonuses. And how else to explain, such a fact that in the country of the Soviets there were collective farmers who gave the army a tank or plane bought for their savings. And accumulated in just 10-12 years.
    1. Aviator_ 13 November 2019 08: 19 New
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      About workdays is absolutely true. Here was such a collective farmer - Ferapont Golovaty. So he bought a plane at his own expense and handed it to the Air Force. And the artists of the Bolshoi Theater were dumped on the plane.
      1. SOVIET UNION 2 13 November 2019 09: 23 New
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        I don’t imagine today a worker buying a tank or plane for the army. And I don’t even imagine a businessman. And oh, horror! I can’t imagine an oligarch giving a tank, plane or ship as a gift to the Ministry of Defense! winked
        1. boriz 13 November 2019 14: 45 New
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          It’s easier to imagine an oligarch who has stolen money from orders from MOs for more than one tank, plane or ship.
      2. bober1982 13 November 2019 09: 27 New
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        Quote: Aviator_
        And the artists of the Bolshoi Theater were dumped on the plane.

        Wanting to help the Red Army defeat the enemy faster, I deposited (1942) at the cash desk of the State Bank in cash all my personal savings in the amount of 273 thousand rubles. I ask you to build two combat aircraft.
        Priest of the Assumption Church Vladimir Aleksandrovich Stefanov.
        Thank you, Vladimir Alexandrovich. Accept my greetings.
        I.Stalin
        1. Aviator_ 13 November 2019 19: 32 New
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          A good example of how priests lived in the Stalin era - because of their well-being, neither the Bolshoi artists, nor individual collective farmers could keep up with them.
          1. bober1982 13 November 2019 20: 12 New
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            Quote: Aviator_
            A good example of how priests lived in the Stalin era

            What do you want, Stalin still studied at the theological seminary, by the way the collective farmers also lived well, so it turns out that if they could afford to build a couple of planes on personal savings.
            By the way, during the war years, about 2,5 thousand aircraft, almost a dozen submarines and many thousands of tanks were built with donations from Soviet citizens.
            1. Aviator_ 13 November 2019 21: 29 New
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              That’s all right, but your example of using donations from Soviet citizens is all the money, and the collective farmer Golovaty and a particular priest are one-time donations from each of them.
    2. rocket757 13 November 2019 08: 25 New
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      Just remember that nothing is given for nothing at all! And a completely new one, such as the state of the Workers and Peasants, did not fit into the reality surrounding it and had really huge, negative, terrible pressure from all sides!
      I don’t know what really was not enough for the implementation, continuation of the outstanding idea of ​​building a more equitable state, but the fact that the HR was decided by all is the most likely answer.
    3. Moskovit 13 November 2019 09: 49 New
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      And now you don’t want to work for workdays? If they are so beautiful
      1. Mcar 13 November 2019 10: 15 New
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        Quote: Moskovit
        And now you don’t want to work for workdays? If they are so beautiful

        Workdays, as a measure of labor, are still used all over the world in areas with hardly predictable results. For example, in gold mining.

        This is the time. Secondly, only those who dream of the parasite's lifestyle are afraid of workdays. Such were in the Union. What to do, just do nothing is about them. In general, people are afraid of work, not quite people - creatures. To take more and better from society, and give less or worse is the motto of humus, which is mistakenly called people.

        I would like that time, those conditions, that system, those people, that attitude to work to come in our time.
        1. Olgovich 13 November 2019 13: 07 New
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          Quote: McAr
          Workdays, as a measure of labor, are still used all over the world in areas with hardly predictable results. for instancein gold mining.

          Yeah, on the collective farms GOLD was mined. lol

          And in the same NEIGHBORHOOD field, where the same peasant worked, but in the state farm, did they also put such “golden” labor bouts? fool
          1. Mcar 13 November 2019 14: 01 New
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            Quote: Olgovich
            Quote: McAr
            Workdays, as a measure of labor, are still used all over the world in areas with hardly predictable results. for instancein gold mining.

            Yeah, on the collective farms GOLD was mined. lol

            And in the same NEIGHBORHOOD field, where the same peasant worked, but in the state farm, did they also put such “golden” labor bouts? fool

            Have you just begun to learn the Russian language or in childhood iodine was malnourished? If the latter sympathize - cretinism is not treated.

            Once again for the mentally retarded.
            When an artel is about to wash gold, the whole season in the stick statements. But the payment at the end of the work. Why is that? Yes, because it is not known how much gold will get washed. It was exactly the same on collective farms. In advance, i.e. in winter, no one can say exactly what crop will be harvested by autumn. Therefore, sticks, and therefore workdays. Now it’s clear to a creature with a defective brain?
            1. Olgovich 14 November 2019 10: 39 New
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              Quote: McAr
              Have you just begun to learn the Russian language or in childhood iodine was malnourished? If the latter sympathize - cretinism is not treated.

              I read the comment and understandyes
              Quote: McAr
              Once again for the mentally retarded.

              lol
              Quote: McAr
              When an artel is about to wash gold, the whole season in the stick statements. But the payment at the end of the work. Why is that? Yes, because it is not known how much gold will get washed. It was exactly the same on collective farms. In advance, i.e. in winter, no one can say exactly what crop will be harvested by autumn. Therefore, sticks, and therefore workdays.

              On the collective farm, the cowgirl knee-deep in shit and the clerks with bookkeepers in the office received the same workday.
              Moreover, the cattleman could still not get it. Like a lumberjack who did not comply with the cubes. Dumb leveling.
              Therefore, they did not want to work there and stole everything that was possible.

              In an artel, the opposite is true.
              now
              Quote: McAr
              is it clear to a creature with a defective brain?
              lol
              1. Foul skeptic 14 November 2019 15: 03 New
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                On the collective farm, the cowgirl knee-deep in shit and the clerks with bookkeepers in the office received the same workday. Moreover, the cattleman could still not get it. Like a lumberjack who did not comply with the cubes. Dumb leveling

                What is egalitarianism? If:
                1) Depending on the efforts made, and therefore the annual result obtained, not one and the same amount of natural product could be obtained for a workday.
                2) Depending on the specialization of the collective farm, the rate of output per unit of manufactured products also differed, since different agricultural crops require different investments of labor.
                3) Workdays were multiplied by coefficients, depending on the group of quotes by type of work.
                1. tesser 14 November 2019 17: 43 New
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                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  Workdays were multiplied by coefficients, depending on the group of quotes by type of work.

                  As far as I know, it was a little the other way around (that is, maybe you had that in mind, but unsuccessfully formulated). Payment (food) for the workday was the same. But more skilled work could "cost" in workdays with increasing coefficients, a day in two, etc.
                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  Depending on the specialization of the collective farm, the rate of output per unit of output also differed

                  Unfortunately, there is not only talk about specialization. Extradition rates floated quite strongly from collective farm to collective farm. Unlike sales, the collective farmers did not have a workday.
                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  Depending on the efforts made, and therefore the annual result obtained, for the workday it was possible to get not the same amount of natural product.

                  Nonsense. The "applied efforts" did not have a decisive significance, and this undermined the collective farm peasantry. The situation on the collective farm as a whole (the size of the pie) and the ability to resolve issues at the distribution stage (blat) mattered.
                  1. Foul skeptic 15 November 2019 09: 21 New
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                    But more skilled work could "cost" in workdays with increasing coefficients, a day in two, etc.

                    Is this any different than what I wrote? Well, except that I do not repeat a common mistake, believing that a workday is the norm of time.
                    Nonsense. The "applied efforts" did not have a decisive significance, and this undermined the collective farm peasantry.

                    Firstly, even within the framework of one collective farm, they had, for N workdays M payments, for 2N workdays, 2M payments. This is a quantitative differentiation.
                    Secondly, it was not about quantitative, but about qualitative differentiation - there were different collective farms within the same association. One collective farm invested N labor, therefore, its yield was M, another collective farm invested 2N labor, therefore, its productivity was 2M / x (where x <= 2). Therefore, the second for each workday will receive more products.
                    The charter of agricultural artels did not provide for equalization at all. The problem was that stupidity from above could equalize the rate of change. As well as irresponsibility or incompetence within the team, you can work well, but by mistake of the agronomist, livestock technician or brigade responsible for safety, ruin the fruits of collective labor, which will result in a lot of workdays and a little work day.
                    The situation on the collective farm as a whole (the size of the pie) and the ability to resolve issues at the distribution stage (blat) mattered

                    But at all times and everywhere was wrong? This must be fought. If you don’t fight, then everything suits you personally.
                    1. tesser 15 November 2019 09: 33 New
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                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      at all times and everywhere was wrong? You have to deal with it.

                      By the methods of the Tambov peasantry?
                      1. Foul skeptic 15 November 2019 09: 37 New
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                        With a doom inside the collective farm collective?
                        It mattered ... on the collective farm
                    2. brat07 17 November 2019 20: 26 New
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                      How boring to read you!
                      Well, is it any easier? AND?
                      "Brevity is the sister of talent" (c).
                2. Olgovich 15 November 2019 10: 33 New
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                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  What is egalitarianism?

                  Normal: the same workday was received by both the cattleman and fifa from the board.
                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  Workdays were multiplied by coefficients, depending on the group of quotes by type of work.

                  Yes, bring the United Russia and the United Arab Republic by country.
                  1. Foul skeptic 15 November 2019 11: 11 New
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                    Normal: the same workday was received by both the cattleman and fifa from the board

                    Another "literate" who repeats the error of all "literate" who believe that workday is the norm. This time.
                    Two - you don’t know that the number of workdays for a cattleman depends on the cattleman, and the number of workdays for a cattleman does not depend on fifa at all, but depends ... on a cattleman. And Fifa can do nothing about it, just rely on this very cattle. Therefore, on large collective farms, everything else went wherever — due to the large total number of workdays, the limit for administrative personnel was tolerable, but there were no people in small boards — all the duties of the board members were pushed to the chairman.
                    Three - and what, somewhere now a laborer gets more administrative staff within the same organization? But there you have a complaint, but not here.
                    Yes, bring the United Russia and the United Arab Republic by country.

                    You didn't know that either?
                    1. Olgovich 15 November 2019 12: 23 New
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                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      that workday this is the norm time. This time.

                      fool.
                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      Two - you don’t know that the number of workdays for a cattleman depends on the cattleman, and the number of workdays for a cattleman does not depend on fifa at all, but depends ... on a cattleman. And Fifa can do nothing about it, just rely on this very cattle. Therefore, on large collective farms, everything else went wherever — due to the large total number of workdays, the limit for administrative personnel was tolerable, but there were no people in small boards — all the duties of the board members were pushed to the chairman.

                      Literate, yes! this led on a number of collective farms to the fact that collective farmers directly engaged in production (field cultivation, livestock breeding) produced significantly less workdays than collective farmers engaged in administrative, managerial, economic and auxiliary work
                      Decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR and the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks on measures to eliminate violations of the charter of the agricultural cooperative on collective farms. September 19.9.1946, XNUMX



                      The Council of Ministers of the USSR and the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, on the basis of the materials received and the checks carried out in a number of areas, establish serious violations of the Charter of the agricultural artel on collective farms.

                      These violations are expressed in the misuse of workdays, the theft of public lands of collective farms, in the theft of collective farm property, abuses by district and other party-Soviet workers, violation of the democratic principles of managing the agricultural artel — the election of boards and chairmen of collective farms, and their accountability to meetings of collective farmers.

                      Waste of workdays

                      The misuse of workdays on collective farms goes onon the line of inflating the staff of management and maintenance personnel on collective farms and excessively high labor costs and cash for administrative expenses
                      The improper use of labor due to an unjustified, excessive expansion of the administrative and managerial staff in many collective farms led to a shortage of able-bodied collective farmers to work in the fields and farms, while there were many people in service positions who did nothing and were paid higher than in production work.

                      In unnecessary and far-fetched positions on collective farms, often retailers and parasites who evade production work, eat up the accumulations of collective farms and live off the labor of those collective farmers who work in the field or take care of livestock.
                      .
                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      You didn't know that either?

                      chatter ....
                      1. Foul skeptic 15 November 2019 12: 53 New
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                        mistake all the "literate people" who think that workday is the norm

                        Is there a problem with understanding the Russian language?
                        Next.
                        Does the word violation in your text not bother you? Do not give offense as an accepted norm.
                        Inflating the states? High labor costs?
                        According to the law, the determination of the staff of administrative and service personnel and the limit of workdays for their payment is not under the responsibility of one person or group of persons, but is approved at a general meeting of collective farmers. Monetary contributions, and not in kind, were generally prescribed at a rate of 2% for maintenance and not more. At the same meeting, collective farmers have the right to impose a fine of up to 10% on the chairman and members of the board, if they consider that the distribution of workdays did not happen correctly. Where is it now possible for subordinates to impose a fine on their leader by collective decision?
                        chatter ....

                        You have about ENiR. request
                      2. Olgovich 16 November 2019 07: 10 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Is there a problem with understanding the Russian language?

                        At you, for you said what I did not say.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Does the word violation in your text not bother you? Do not give offense as accepted norm.
                        Inflating the states? High labor costs?

                        No, it doesn’t bother.
                        For these "violations" became the everyday norm, with which these decrees fought, but defeated the "violation". And not only on collective farms, but in the entire vicious system
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        You have about ENiR.

                        ENiR for sowing millet and collecting buckwheat-bring.
                      3. Foul skeptic 17 November 2019 11: 23 New
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                        At you, for you said what I did not say

                        Pearl about cattle and Fifu with the same workday can occur only in the case of the perception of the workday as the norm of time.
                        For these "violations" became the everyday norm, with which these decrees fought, but defeated the "violation". And not only on collective farms, but in the entire vicious system

                        If you argue in this way, then the situation is even worse now. If only they would have thought before writing.
                        You just need to get away from where the discussion started and spread your thoughts on the tree.
                        The conversation began with "egalitarianism." Show me in the charter of the agricultural artel what item it implies the same pay, regardless of the volume, nature or quality of work. You say that the installed system was vicious. So show me this vice in law.
                        ENiR for sowing millet and collecting buckwheat-bring.

                        For what? Does this relate to the topic of conversation? In which place?
                      4. Olgovich 17 November 2019 13: 01 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Pearl about cattle and Fifu with the same workday can occur only in the case of the perception of the workday as the norm of time.

                        This could only happen with understanding problems.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        If you argue in this way, then the situation is even worse now. If only they would have thought before writing.
                        You just need to get away from where the discussion started and spread your thoughts on the tree.
                        The conversation began with "egalitarianism." Show me in the charter of the agricultural artel what item it implies the same pay, regardless of the volume, nature or quality of work. You say that the installed system was vicious. So show me this vice in law.

                        I say. See behind the window: it is NOT. Are you few?
                        Vices-in the decision indicated.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        For what? Does this relate to the topic of conversation? In which place?

                        in the last paragraph
                      5. Foul skeptic 18 November 2019 19: 00 New
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                        Vices-in the decision indicated.

                        The decision indicated violations of the charter. Once again I say - do not give offense as the norm.
                        Show me in the charter of the agricultural artel what item it implies the same pay, regardless of the volume, nature or quality of work.
                        in the last paragraph

                        There are already many last paragraphs in the correspondence. And at the same time, anyway, your request about the UniR does not correspond with any one.
                      6. Olgovich 19 November 2019 10: 08 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        The decision indicated violations of the charter. Once again I say - do not give offense as the norm.

                        Chronic illnesses that disappeared only together with the patient
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        There are already many last paragraphs in the correspondence. And at the same time, anyway, your request about the UniR does not correspond with any one.

                        The latter is always about pricing
                      7. Foul skeptic 19 November 2019 10: 51 New
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                        In the introduction, CHRONIC diseases are indicated that disappeared only with the patient

                        Ah, that's how it turns out. Tell you about chronic diseases, say, public procurement systems? We then had a "vicious system in the state, a state through and through vicious and generally darkness." Begin to judge.
                        I repeat the third time - do not give the violation as normal.
                        Show me the paragraph of the charter, in which there is a loophole due to which such diseases "necessarily-predominantly" appear.
                        Not only that, you are looking for loopholes to get away from talking about egalitarianism and citing such "evidence" do not even understand that this evidence even in violation shows that there was no equalization
                        Doing nothing and receiving a higher payment than in production

                        Different salaries for different jobs are no longer equalization laughing laughing
                        The latter is always about pricing

                        It's about pricing, but it has nothing to do with the topic of conversation. Therefore, I don’t understand why I should bring ENiR, what will it show?
                      8. Olgovich 19 November 2019 13: 01 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Ah, that's how it turns out. You tell about chronic diseases, say, public procurement systems? We then had a "vicious system in the state, a state through and through vicious and generally darkness." Begin to judge.

                        Yes yes
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        I repeat the third time - do not give the violation as normal.
                        Show me the paragraph of the charter in which the loophole is hidden due to which twhat kind of disease "is necessary-require "appear.

                        the patient died -You are not enough ?! belay
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Not only that, you are looking for loopholes to get away from talking about egalitarianism and citing such "evidence" do not even understand that this evidence even in violation shows that there was no leveling

                        On the contrary, it was: therefore, they sat in a bloated state, and not in manure.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Different salaries for different jobs are no longer equalization

                        good
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        It's about pricing, but it has nothing to do with the topic of conversation. Therefore, I don’t understand why I should bring ENiR, what will it show?

                        it was you trying to show them something request
                      9. Foul skeptic 19 November 2019 13: 46 New
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                        Yes

                        fitting tenders to specific suppliers of goods and services.
                        You are not enough ?!

                        Yes, I want to see the charter item
                        On the contrary, it was

                        And what is “equalized” here, volume, nature or quality of work? Between what sign is equal to put?
                        it was you trying to show them something

                        you were the first to write about EniR, so I keep wondering why I should bring it.
                      10. Olgovich 20 November 2019 10: 42 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        fitting tenders to specific suppliers of goods and services.

                        Common General Tender Rules
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Yes, I want to see the charter item

                        choose any. NO collective farms, artificially forcibly created, disappeared
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        And what is “equalized” here, volume, nature or quality of work? Between what sign is equal to put?

                        between money
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        you were the first to write about EniR, so I keep wondering why I should bring it.

                        uniform country rules for collective farms - you mentioned
                      11. Foul skeptic 20 November 2019 18: 53 New
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                        Common General Tender Rules

                        Are you crazy?
                        Show me where "fitting tenders to specific suppliers of goods and services" is allowed in the Federal Law "On the contract system in the field of procurement of goods, works, services to meet state and municipal needs" dated 05.04.2013/44/XNUMX N XNUMX-ФЗ
                        choose any.

                        It is clear that there is nothing to say in defense of your stupidity.
                        between money

                        something does not grow together
                        higher payment

                        higher, this is a> sign, not =. Even in violation there is no “egalitarianism”, all the more if it is not if the activity is organized in accordance with the charter.
                        uniform country rules for collective farms - you mentioned

                        No. I could not say such stupidity. ENiRami normalized the construction and repair and construction sector, not agricultural. Show me where I am talking about ENiR? I can show you where you ask about EniR.
                      12. Olgovich 21 November 2019 10: 50 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Are you crazy?
                        Show me where "fitting tenders to specific suppliers of goods and services" is allowed in the Federal Law "On the contract system in the field of procurement of goods, works, services to meet state and municipal needs" dated 05.04.2013/44/XNUMX N XNUMX-ФЗ

                        Nowhere, naturally, is "normal."
                        Therefore, this is a crime, and not the norm.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        It is clear that there is nothing to say in defense of your stupidity.

                        belay Stupidity (coll.khozv), which has long died out due to its bastardity, is defended by you. request
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        something does not grow together

                        tighten up! yes
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        No. I could not say such stupidity. ENiRami normalized the construction and repair and construction sector, not agricultural. Show me where I am talking about ENiR? I can show you where you ask about EniR.

                        belay
                        Naturally, I asked after Your his mention of this.

                        PS with the "normal", mentioning abnormal, I do not communicate (disdain).

                        MSS As it came to life, there are NO answers to 5 questions for the fifth time either. lol
                      13. Foul skeptic 21 November 2019 19: 25 New
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                        Nowhere naturally

                        a message earlier you write
                        Common general rules

                        And do not get out laughing
                        Naturally, I asked after your mention of this

                        Show me the mention of ENIR?
                        long dead due to its viciousness, you protect just

                        You are stubborn, it’s already a clinical something.
                        It referred only to an erroneous judgment that the collective farm charter provides for “leveling off”.
                        no answers to 5 questions

                        So you do not answer "yes or no" to the direct monosyllabic question
                        "Olgovich, do you wear women's underwear only on even days or always?"
                        Your questions are of the same nature.
                      14. Olgovich 22 November 2019 11: 44 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic

                        a message earlier you write
                        Common general rules

                        And do not get out



                        And there is.
                        And what do you fantasize about? lol
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Show me the mention of ENIR?

                        you mentioned ed norms for collective farms, and I asked to submit them
                        Quote: A vile skeptic

                        Here it is you're stubborn, it's already clinical something.
                        It referred only to an erroneous judgment that the collective farm charter provides for “leveling off”.

                        It never came to you, ek:
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        you are stubborn, this is already a clinical thing.
                        request
                        It was about the vagueness of the economy and the system that imposed it, where NOBODY wanted to work. AGAIN incomprehensible? request
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Т
                        "Olgovich, do you wear women's underwear only on even days or always?"
                        Your questions are of the same nature.

                        You forget: WHAT do you allow yourself? negative
                        Fi ... negative
                      15. Foul skeptic 22 November 2019 14: 28 New
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                        Common general rules

                        this is a crime

                        Yeah, that means federal laws set crime as the norm.
                        Which of your characteristics apply to such a case ...- "vicious system ... or full-time ..."? Even hard to choose.
                        Maybe, nevertheless, we will not pass offense as the norm and everything will fall into place and there will be no need to make such nonsense? I am for this option, and you?
                        you mentioned ed norms for collective farms, and I asked to submit them

                        Well, I still mentioned otherwise in the first tessera message.
                        It is difficult to fulfill your request. To do this, I would have to present account books and a charter specifically taken collective farm. The fact is that, according to the charter, the norms for the development and rate of work in workdays are approved at general meetings of collective farmers in collaboration with executive committees. The executive committees corrected approximate payment standards approved by the Council of Ministers taking into account the particularities of individual collective farms. Further, such approved norms were superimposed on a 9-bit grid (there were seven- and five-). Thus, a fivefold gradation (0,5-2,5) of the assessment and payment of work was obtained.
                      16. Olgovich 22 November 2019 15: 17 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Yeah, that means federal laws set crime as the norm.

                        no. Where is it? fool
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Well, I still mentioned otherwise in the first tessera message.
                        It is difficult to fulfill your request. For this, account books and the charter of a particular collective farm would have to be presented. The fact is that, according to the charter, the norms for the development and rate of work in workdays are approved at general meetings of collective farmers in collaboration with executive committees. The executive committees corrected approximate payment standards approved by the Council of Ministers taking into account the particularities of individual collective farms. Further, such approved norms were superimposed on a 9-bit grid (there were seven- and five-). Thus, a fivefold gradation (0,5-2,5) of the assessment and payment of work was obtained.

                        what is it about
                      17. Foul skeptic 22 November 2019 18: 59 New
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                        no. Where is it?

                        in your posts, where else:
                        1) adjustment of bidding for specific suppliers of goods and services (BUT)
                        this is a crime (AT)

                        2) adjustment of bidding for specific suppliers of goods and services (BUT)
                        Common General Tender Rules (C)

                        we recall the laws of classical logic "if A = B and A = C, then B = C or C = B"
                        So for you, "The usual general rules for tendering is a crime." And since the "general rules for tendering" are spelled out in 44-FZ (federal law), then accordingly
                        federal laws set crime as the norm

                        Either that, or it is not necessary, and in the case of collective farms, the crime should be passed off as the norm. Then either put on your underpants or remove the cross.
                        what is it about

                        no, the question is, with what fright did such a question come to me in the context of my message to tesser?
                        Once again, in the best traditions, you asked a question that cannot, in principle, be answered, since there were no unified norms, in principle, approximate norms, paradoxically as it sounds, came from the same central governing body. Therefore, the request cannot be fulfilled, not because it contradicts my previous statements, but because it is generally impossible to do due to the absence of the requested things in nature.
                        And in the context of the message to tesser, the explanation in the previous message is presented - the workday was multiplied by a value from 0,5 to 2,5.
                      18. Olgovich 23 November 2019 12: 31 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        no. Where is it?

                        in your posts, where else:
                        1) adjustment of bidding for specific suppliers of goods and services (BUT)
                        this is a crime (AT)

                        2) adjustment of bidding for specific suppliers of goods and services (BUT)
                        Common General Tender Rules (C)

                        we recall the laws of classical logic "if A = B and A = C, then B = C or C = B"
                        So for you, "The usual general rules for tendering is a crime." And since the "general rules for tendering" are spelled out in 44-FZ (federal law), then accordingly
                        federal laws set crime as the norm

                        Either that, or it is not necessary, and in the case of collective farms, the crime should be passed off as the norm. Then either put on your underpants or remove the cross.
                        what is it about

                        no, the question is, with what fright did such a question come to me in the context of my message to tesser?
                        Once again, in the best traditions, you asked a question that cannot, in principle, be answered, since there were no unified norms, in principle, approximate norms, paradoxically as it sounds, came from the same central governing body. Therefore, the request cannot be fulfilled, not because it contradicts my previous statements, but because it is generally impossible to do due to the absence of the requested things in nature.
                        And in the context of the message to tesser, the explanation in the previous message is presented - the workday was multiplied by a value from 0,5 to 2,5.

                        Same..
                        Tired of it. For sim hi
                3. Foul skeptic 22 November 2019 14: 46 New
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                  You forget: WHAT do you allow yourself? negative
                  Fi ...

                  I sincerely apologize for my trick
                4. Olgovich 22 November 2019 15: 19 New
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                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  You forget: WHAT do you allow yourself? negative
                  Fi ...

                  I sincerely apologize for my trick

                  accepted.
                  What for?! request
                5. Foul skeptic 22 November 2019 18: 06 New
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                  What for?!

                  You see, I did mention Frecken Bock about Carlson’s question? In the context of your raising questions that cannot be answered unambiguously. Mentioned. You either did not understand what I meant by this, or you ignored it. Then I, so you couldn’t miss him, simply translated into a more “adult” version.
                6. Olgovich 23 November 2019 12: 32 New
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                  Quote: A vile skeptic

                  You see, I did mention Frecken Bock about Carlson’s question? In the context of your questions to which It is impossible to give a definite answer. Mentioned. You either did not understand what I meant by this, or you ignored it. Then I, so you couldn’t miss him, simply translated into a more “adult” version.


                  You can: no.
  • George Davydov 19 November 2019 22: 55 New
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    Is it necessary to bring to the end ?, mind ?, that these violations are the methods of creating social parasites that have devoured the roots of Soviet power, removed workers from power, etc., which allowed us to overthrow the Soviet power quietly, peacefully and without war.
  • tesser 13 November 2019 15: 06 New
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    Quote: McAr
    I would like that time, those conditions, that system, those people, that attitude to work to come in our time.

    Has already. Suitcase - Station - Pyongyang. The train 100Щ, left today, you didn’t have time (but you can still catch it by plane), the nearest December 12 and 26, 0.35 Moscow time Yaroslavsky station.
  • kalibr 13 November 2019 10: 15 New
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    Alexander! You are all the author, and you suffer from incomplete knowledge. You do not know which side the archive door opens to, but judge ... you would go to the party archive, read the affairs of the collective farms, the situation of collective farmers ... the inside of life would open to you. What city do you live in? If it is a regional center, then you should have the archive of the former OK CPSU and anybody can get there.
    1. Mcar 13 November 2019 10: 18 New
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      Quote: kalibr
      Alexander!

      Am I wrong somewhere? Wasn’t 60-100 workdays the norm? Could someone make it work more? Essentially got nitpicking?
  • tesser 13 November 2019 14: 58 New
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    Quote: McAr
    For example, on collective farms, depending on the region, the norm of workdays was from 60 to 100.

    Yeah. Only this is not the norm. This is the minimum, not fulfilled - a criminal offense.
    Quote: McAr
    maybe in 50 days

    50 workdays - for children from 12 to 16.
    Quote: McAr
    sat in the bazaar - traded surpluses of personal plots

    What bazaar is it? Who will let them into the city? And what kind of surplus? Do you know how much for 100 sticks of grain they gave under Comrade Stalin? Do you know that women were dragging milk from their own cow to the collective farm?
    Quote: McAr
    Naturally, they received a little, but compensated outside the collective farm work, with earnings.

    Freelancers. Outsourced Microsoft code.
    Quote: McAr
    also had permits to the southern seas,

    To Azure.
    Quote: McAr
    Valuable and scarce items

    That saddle is big for you,
    Carpet and TV.
    They immediately hand in a gift
    Or maybe handed.

    Quote: McAr
    And how else to explain, such a fact that in the country of the Soviets there were collective farmers who gave the army a tank or plane bought for their savings.

    Addictive pricing. This plane at the state price cost the same as a can of 20 liters of honey on the market.

    Little of. Okay, Yaki. Cobras used to give the front. Roosevelt bought for labor savings.
    1. Mcar 13 November 2019 15: 10 New
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      Quote: tesser
      Yeah. Only this is not the norm. This is the minimum, not fulfilled - a criminal offense.

      Yes, such as you do at least 2 working days a year, all one thing there are heroes who are not able to do this - impotent fucking.

      Quote: tesser
      50 workdays - for children from 12 to 16.

      Now prove, yap bazaar.

      Quote: tesser
      What bazaar is it?

      Ordinary. One member of the family sits in the bazaar, one for the whole family works out the workdays, the rest to the fact that in the bazaar they carry everything from dill to crucian carp. Family in a row.

      Quote: tesser
      Addictive pricing. This plane at the state price cost the same as a can of 20 liters of honey on the market.

      Yeah, 2 liters of urine.

      Why are you, Russophobe, so you don’t like people, huh? Did you have mom, dad? Why angry like a dog?
      1. tesser 13 November 2019 15: 33 New
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        Quote: McAr
        Do 2 working days a year, all one thing there are heroes who are not able to do this - impotent fucking.

        Do you offer to shoot these two days in x-video?
        Quote: McAr
        Now prove, yap bazaar.

        I did not drink hawthorn with you on the brudershaft.
        4. To establish the obligatory minimum of workdays per year for adolescents - family members of collective farmers aged 12 to 16 years in the amount of at least 50 workdays per year. To invite collective farms to issue work books to adolescents and to take into account the workdays separately worked out by adolescents.

        5. To establish that able-bodied collective farmers who have not worked out without compelling reasons the obligatory minimum of workdays for periods of agricultural work are brought to trial and, by the verdict of the people's court, are punished with corrective labor on collective farms for up to 6 months with deduction from payment of workdays of up to 25% in favor collective farm. To invite collective farms to establish that able-bodied collective farmers and collective farmers who have not worked out the obligatory minimum of workdays during the year should be considered as having left the collective farm, having lost the collective farmer’s rights and losing their personal plot.

        6. To propose to the people's courts all the cases referred to in paragraph 5, to consider no more than 10 days and the sentences in these cases to be executed immediately.

        7. The chairpersons of the boards of collective farms and the foremen for evading the court of able-bodied collective farmers who do not produce a minimum of workdays are brought to justice.

        Chairman of the board
        People's Commissars of the USSR
        I. STALIN
        Secretary
        Central Committee of the CPSU (b)
        A. ANDREEV

        RESOLUTION SNK / VKP (b) of April 13, 1942 No. 508
        Quote: McAr
        Ordinary. One family member sits in a bazaar,

        Who issued him a passport to this member? I don’t ask yet who gave him the car, the bazaar is also to me.
        Quote: McAr
        Yeah, 2 liters of urine.


        Quote: McAr
        Yeah, 2 liters of urine.

        I am not interested in this topic. And food prices
        https://archive74.ru/tseny-voennogo-vremeni
        1. Mcar 13 November 2019 15: 51 New
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          Quote: tesser
          RESOLUTION SNK / VKP (b) of April 13, 1942 No. 508

          Nerd, tell what at that time was in the country, with the country, or do you realize?
          1. tesser 13 November 2019 15: 56 New
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            Quote: McAr
            Nerd, tell what at that time was in the country, with the country, or do you realize?

            And what was the matter with the country that deserters of the labor front - under the people's court? In the Reich, they did it in the same 42nd?
            1. Mcar 13 November 2019 15: 58 New
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              Quote: tesser
              In the Reich, they did it in the same 42nd?

              That's because they didn’t do that, it ended in the 45th.
    2. Sugar Honeyovich 13 November 2019 16: 57 New
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      Quote: tesser
      What bazaar is it? Who will let them into the city?

      Which is in the city. Anyone. And if no one starts up, they’ll just leave. However, as a rule, no one asked for permission.
      1. tesser 13 November 2019 22: 06 New
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        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
        Which is in the city. Anyone

        Seriously? We read the standard for passports and rules for staying in cities.
        1. Sugar Honeyovich 14 November 2019 06: 12 New
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          Quote: tesser
          Seriously? We read the standard for passports and rules for staying in cities.

          Serious does not happen. Reading the rules and regulations, as mathematicians say, is necessary, but not enough. To know how it was REALLY, you need to question people - contemporaries, eyewitnesses, participants in the events. And they say that:
          - in the city (district center) to the bazaar from the villages went constantly;
          - except for going to the market (who wished) to church;
          - Specifically, my ancestors for some special occasion went to church and to the regional center. We walked because to go to such a thing is a sin.
          1. tesser 14 November 2019 07: 53 New
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            That is, peasant happiness in the Soviet Union, about which it is a question of stomping on foot to a city with "surplus subsidiary plots" on corks and hiding from garbage there?

            Hmm, that sounds interesting.
  • kalibr 13 November 2019 07: 35 New
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    What state created Steel? Such that after his death lasted only 38 years. For comparison, the shogun Ieyasu Tokugawa created a state that lasted 264 years after his death.
    1. Far B 13 November 2019 08: 06 New
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      But did the Shogun Tokugawa also have to completely rephrase the social structure with consciousness? Or is it just that the political system is slightly under itself to rihtanut?
    2. Aviator_ 13 November 2019 08: 19 New
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      This shogun did not find his Corn Khrushchev.
    3. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 08: 32 New
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      kalibr (Vyacheslav)
      What state created Steel? Such that after his death lasted only 38 years.
      What are you saying ?! His legacy still cannot be plundered and destroyed. All the successes of the USSR have been backlogged since the Stalin era, including a breakthrough into space and other achievements.
      The plant built in our city under Stalin was a city-forming one, after the collapse of the USSR, whoever just did not outbid and robbed it, starting from local thieves and ending with the Americans. But he still lives no matter what, although with a creak, but this is already a question for modern leadership.
      Well, who, whom, but not Stalin’s fault for you, a citizen, a former teacher of history of the CPSU, and now a changeling and a champion in shoes in the air.
    4. BAI
      BAI 13 November 2019 09: 26 New
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      And the state of Alexander the Great collapsed immediately after his death.
    5. RUSS 13 November 2019 09: 30 New
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      Quote: kalibr
      What state created Steel? Such that after his death lasted only 38 years

      After the death of the same Mao Zedong, 43 years have passed, and China does not even think to slow down the pace of development.
      So, Dzhugashvili chose the wrong path, like the other general secretaries.
      1. boriz 13 November 2019 14: 50 New
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        An anti-Soviet project was created from China, so the United States actively helped with money and technology. If it weren’t for that, China would have sat in the deep ...
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 08: 34 New
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      Muhammad (Muhammad)
      Damn you sick with your Stalin
      Look do not choke on your anger, curses tend to turn against those who sent them.
      So you do not get sick!
    2. RUSS 13 November 2019 09: 25 New
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      Quote: Muhammad
      Damn you sick with your Stalin, and communism is your curse, to all who are nostalgic for the times of this tyrant, I wish you a quick reunion with him !!!

      good good good
    3. BAI
      BAI 13 November 2019 09: 28 New
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      A long time ago there was no such tantrum.
    4. SOVIET UNION 2 13 November 2019 09: 31 New
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      And what was tyrannical under Stalin? Can I educate? What was the manifestation of Stalin's tyranny? That's about criminal tyranny that something all the language in the ass hold. And there they somehow do without the police. courts and human rights defenders. And no one buzzes about violating human rights by crime. No one makes a complaint to criminal authorities. On the contrary! Crime is cool! Crime is fair! And what is the justice of crime? Is Chanson cool music? Music of the people? Which one? Criminal? Or is the criminal world the fairest? Well praised Circle crime. So what? Did it help him?
      1. carstorm 11 13 November 2019 12: 31 New
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        chanson is just the most folk music and is) this is a collective term that includes thieves and, for example, military songs. romances, etc. Rosenbaum as an example of such music. or cliffs. all this chanson united.
  • rocket757 13 November 2019 08: 20 New
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    In the USSR-Russia, a society of knowledge, service, and creation was created. It was a civilization of the future.

    The goals and objectives were clear, worthy ... and the rest, much, had to be perceived differently.
    Now that they don’t talk about those goals and objectives, don’t dream, in general, we hope that we will return to them anyway without repeating our previous mistakes.
  • BAI
    BAI 13 November 2019 09: 21 New
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    The red emperor. Stalin gave rise to the formation of a new civilization and society.

    1. Well now it’s clear who the emperor is, according to the author (which was not clear in the last article). Even despite the fact that the presence of a military caste was an indispensable feature of the empire, there were no castes in the USSR by definition.
    2. K. Marx: "Civilization is a social formation based on the oppression of one class by another." Socialism is the social formation following civilization. Which class oppresses the other under socialism? Of course, I understand that the author considers himself smarter than K. Marx, but how many people know and share the opinion of Marx, and how much - the author?
    1. Mcar 13 November 2019 09: 31 New
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      Quote: BAI
      Socialism is the social formation following civilization. Which class oppresses the other under socialism?

      The social formation following capitalism is called communism. And this is a classless society, there are no oppressors and oppressed. Socialism is the primary, initial, undeveloped phase of communism. Like a child growing up, but not yet an adult. And in this phase, the most progressive class of the proletariat suppresses (should suppress) any manifestations of the bourgeois, i.e. negative manifestations from the previous formation. In my opinion everything is transparent here.
    2. Boris55 13 November 2019 09: 43 New
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      Quote: BAI
      in the USSR there were no castes by definition.

      But in the late USSR there was a joke.
      The colonel’s son asks his father:
      - Dad, will I become a colonel?
      - Yes, son.
      - Daddy, and I will become a general?
      - No son, the general has his own son.

      Quote: BAI
      but how many people know and share the opinion of Marx

      Stalin did not share the opinion of Marx. Even more than that, he spoke about the insolvency of Capital under socialism. "... I think that our economists should put an end to this discrepancy between the old concepts and the new state of affairs in our socialist country, replacing the old concepts with new ones corresponding to the new position. We could tolerate this discrepancy until a certain time, but now the time has come, when we must finally eliminate this discrepancy ... "i.e. abandon mraxism.
      1. DNS-a42 13 November 2019 12: 39 New
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        Quote: Boris55
        Stalin did not share the opinion of Marx. Even more than that, he spoke about the insolvency of Capital under socialism. "... I think that our economists should put an end to this discrepancy between the old concepts and the new state of affairs in our socialist country, replacing the old concepts with new ones corresponding to the new position. We could tolerate this discrepancy until a certain time, but now the time has come, when we must finally eliminate this discrepancy ... " those. abandon mraxism.


        "Moreover, I think it is necessary throw back some other conceptstaken from the "Capital" of Marx, where Marx was engaged in the analysis of capitalism, and artificially glued to our socialist relations."

        Maybe stop misinterpreting? And it turns out that Stalin is your schizophrenic, at first he calls for abandoning Marxism, and then he writes that we cannot do without Marx’s reproduction theory under socialism, and then he also writes about the importance of a textbook on Marxism, and then he also reproaches his comrades for leaving from Marxist principles.
  • kalibr 13 November 2019 09: 30 New
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    Quote: BAI
    And the state of Alexander the Great collapsed immediately after his death.

    Which just speaks of its fragility, right?
    1. BAI
      BAI 13 November 2019 14: 37 New
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      Not durable, but why? It all depends not on the system - slave states existed long after the Macedonian, but on the leader. There would be a more worthy king than Nicholas - RI would still exist, at least there would be no revolutions of 1917. Another person would come to power instead of Gorbachev — the USSR would also exist. We see that completely different states in terms of organization equally depend on who is in power. An example of the United States is not necessary. The events with Trump (and with Kennedy) clearly demonstrated that in the United States (and, probably, in other countries), the president is not the head of state, but some kind of shadow government that wants to be unknown, and elected rulers only fulfill his will. How there (in the shadow government) come to power - we do not know.
      1. kalibr 13 November 2019 14: 50 New
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        Rome lasted a thousand years ...
  • kalibr 13 November 2019 09: 33 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    Well, who, whom, but not Stalin’s fault for you, a citizen, a former teacher of history of the CPSU, and now a changeling and a champion in shoes in the air.

    Did I fail? I pointed out that it lasted only 38 years. Obviously, if it were more ... well, let's say, perfect, it would have stood longer or we would have lived under the USSR even now. But as always some kind of “would” prevented.
    1. Boris55 13 November 2019 09: 53 New
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      Quote: kalibr
      I pointed out that it lasted only 38 years.

      It didn’t exist for 38 years. It took them 38 years to destroy it.

      After the execution of workers in Novocherkassk (1962 year), the Trotskyists realized that capitalism would not succeed in imposing the people on the heels. The era of Brezhnev’s degradation was nothing more than a creeping counter-revolution, during which they nurtured and placed their people in all key posts, at the same time removing the people from management, killing any initiative from below, soldering it ... it was for this reason that the people did not defend guiding and guiding.
    2. Alexander Suvorov 13 November 2019 11: 09 New
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      kalibr (Vyacheslav) But as always some kind of “would” prevented.
      Well, RI “stumbled” about this very thing in due time, right?
  • kalibr 13 November 2019 09: 35 New
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    [quote = Aviator_] of this shogun did not find his Khrushchek Kukuruznogo.
    Or he made it so that this was not found, which speaks of his mind, right?
  • kalibr 13 November 2019 09: 37 New
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    Quote: rocket757
    And a completely new one, such as the state of the Workers and Peasants, did not fit into the reality surrounding it and had really huge, negative, terrible pressure from all sides!

    What else in the 1908 year in his novel RED STAR was warned by A. Bogadanov. Lenin then argued with him, but we see who turned out to be right. Read it, a very interesting piece
  • Olgovich 13 November 2019 09: 37 New
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    When you watch movies of the Stalin era Heroes of the Soviet era are filled with bright energy,. In them ndisease era of consumption

    So there they are generally nothing and never get sick. And also do not get divorced, do not drink, do not swear, do not age and do not die.

    Such hefty, always young, good fellows, forever and without reason laughing and cheerfully singing, jokingly exceed the tasks of the party.
    This society knowledge, ministry and creation

    They did NOT know: about the millions who died within 9 months of starvation, about 630 executions for 000 year 1 * 37gg, about hundreds of thousands of exiled children, about the price of wars, etc.
    What is this ... "knowledge? belay

    By the way, where are the members of this society?
    -Stalin, 1934: "we became 168 млн
    -Stalin, 1935 (and 1930) - "we each grow by more than 3 million.
    .those. in 1937: 168 + 3 * 3 =177 million
    The census of 1937 gave ....162 млн
    177-162 =15 million DECLASED over 3 years- from the fun, apparently.
    This is 10% of the population ...
    then the demographic catastrophe began ...
    and again rushed forward to the future. The merit of Stalin is that he was able to give such faith and dedication to society.

    The author, apparently, is not aware that all the great Stalinist unfinished buildings were immediately closed after his death by his comrades-in-arms of the Turkmen canal, the Sahal tunnel, the northern railway, etc.
    The tired country didn’t already have the strength or the means to do this: it’s impossible to live forever in a rush regime
    1. Foul skeptic 13 November 2019 10: 30 New
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      -Stalin, 1934: "we became 168 million
      -Stalin, 1935 (and 1930) - "we each grow by more than 3 million.
      .those. in 1937: 168 + 3 * 3 = 177 million
      The 1937 census yielded ... 162 million
      177-162 = 15 million LOST for 3 years, from the fun, apparently.

      Well, they gave the person incorrect data, he voiced them. The census simply showed the incorrectness of previous calculations. Count according to this principle, as you think, the population decline in the United States between 30 and 40 years. And tell me how many people have gone there.
      1. Olgovich 13 November 2019 11: 43 New
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        Quote: A vile skeptic
        Well, they gave the person incorrect data, he voiced them. The census simply showed the incorrectness of previous calculations.

        Yeah, Stalin-and give the wrong information-and for many years ?!belay Moreover, to make an unconscious retranslator from it? what are you ... belay

        M. Kurman is a demographer who managed population statistics at the TsUNKHU of the USSR in the 1930s .:

        “The latest more or less known data on the population of the USSR date back to the end of 1931. As for the next two years - 1932 and 1933, they were characterized by a very large crop failure on a significant territory of the Soviet Union - in Ukraine, in the Central Black Earth Region, in the Kuban, Volga region. As a result, the natural growth over the years was extremely small, and in some cases it turned out even negative. Under such conditions, we are in the then TSUKHNU closed all data on the population, declared them forbidden. The last figure that was published refers to January 1, 1933. After that, no data was published, but they kept score. What was our surprise when at the XVII Congress of the Party Stalin was called the figure of the population, which diverged towards overstatement against our calculation of eight million. At my insistence, the then head of the population and health statistics department, the Hungarian émigré Sikra, turned to the then head of TsUNHU Osinsky with a question where did Stalin get the population figure named at the congress. Then they told me that Osinsky had a conversation with Stalin on this subject, and Stalin replied that he himself knew what number to call him. True, in the printed text the population was reduced by a million against Stalin's oral speech. However, she was very overpriced "

        He knew everything well.
        The fame of the catastrophe is evidenced by the fact that since 1936 abortions in the country have been FORBIDDEN and this was done precisely because of the knowledge of the extent of what happened.

        And the 1937 census was banned.

        Then, by executions, direct falsification and lies, they pulled in the figure of 1939 million in 170, but, again, they didn’t explain where the tens of millions of the proclaimed growth had gone ....
        Quote: A vile skeptic
        Count on this principle how do you think population decline in the US between 30 and 40 years. And tell me how many people have gone there.

        You surprise me again: this is not what I think, but Stalin, December 35:
        the material situation of workers has improved significantly, which life has become better, more fun. population began to multiply much faster than in the old days. This, of course, is good, and we welcome it. Now we have Each year, a net population growth of about three million souls.
        He stated the same 5 years earlier.
      2. Olgovich 13 November 2019 13: 20 New
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        Quote: A vile skeptic
        Count according to this principle, as you think, the population decline in the United States between 30 and 40 years. And tell me how many people have gone there.

        And in the United States in these years, did they announce a much faster population growth every year than before, and even with a number?
        No?
        so how do I ... count? belay

        Let's go themselves, once offered such a probability hi
        1. Foul skeptic 13 November 2019 14: 32 New
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          Yeah, Stalin-and give the wrong information-and for many years?! Belay Yes, even make him an unconscious retranslator? what are you ... belay

          And what's so surprising about that? This is not uncommon in life. They gave the wrong information not because they had the right information, but wanted to substitute and slip the "misinformation". They gave the wrong just because they counted incorrectly. I quote Zhiromskaya:
          at that time in science there was an official version that the increase in life
          population level automatically leads to its expanded reproduction,

          Based on this postulate
          The State Planning Commission and TsUNHU believed that "the law of the population of the socialist economy during the first five-year period is the law of stabilization of the pace at a relatively high level - 2,2-2,3%
          (in America - 0,9, in Japan - 1,2, in Italy - 0,85). The law of the population for the second five-year plan is a law in comparison with the first five-year plan of the narrowing spiral of population growth ... The growth rate of the population for the second five-year period is set at an average of 1,82%. Roughly speaking,
          the annual population growth for the second five-year period was estimated at about 3 million people

          But in fact, it turned out that the increase was 1% (an indicator similar to other industrial countries).
          M. Kurman the demographer who led the 1930s

          And it should not be surprising at all that everything he said appeared when it was impossible to verify his words. And for some reason, in a French expat magazine. Although I do not deny such an opportunity - well, a person’s insult, he served time because the calculated predicted figure was voiced as real.
          And by the way, he himself said about the accuracy of the calculations:
          As for the remaining discrepancy, it, apparently, can be attributed to the fact that the current statistics do not have a series of data.

          You surprise me again: I don’t think so.

          those. in 1937: 168 + 3 * 3 = 177 million
          177-162 = 15 million LOSS
          This is your calculations.
          So count on the same principle the US population between 30 and 40.
          And in the United States in these years, did they announce a much faster population growth every year than before, and even with a number?
          No?
          so how do I ... count? belay

          Let’s do it yourself, if you offered such a probability

          You do not understand? Then why, if you do not understand, then do the calculations for the USSR? We must begin to understand, and then count.
          US Population Census:
          1920 - 106 021 537
          1930 - 123 202 624
          1940 - 132 164 569
          1950 - 151 325 798
          Growth for 1920-1930: 123 202 624 - 106 021 537 = 17 181 087
          Growth for 1940-1950: 151 325 798 - 132 164 569 = 19 161 229
          Growth for 1930-1940: 132 164 569 - 123 202 624 = 8 961 945
          Voila, 8-9 million US deaths due to the Great Depression.
          This is what happens if you consider what you think.
          1. Olgovich 13 November 2019 14: 52 New
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            Quote: A vile skeptic
            And what's so surprising about that? This is not uncommon in life. They gave the wrong information not because they had the right information, but wanted to substitute and slip the "misinformation". They gave the wrong just because they counted incorrectly. I quote Zhiromskaya:
            at that time in science there was an official version that the increase in life
            population level automatically leads to its expanded reproduction,

            I clearly wrote: the correct number in TSUNHU was known: 160 млн at the end of 1933, and not declared by Stalin 168 million
            Oh that gain no-There, they ALSO knew (therefore the data were kept secret), just as Stalin knew from them.

            And he announced an increase of 3 million because, yes, he was obliged to declare, in order to “prove” to all the owls. the theory that under socialism is "all the trick" than under capitalism, and a happy population multiplies at a frantic pace (from happiness) ..

            To do this, and measures (Soviet) took-abortion is prohibited. But anyway ... request
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            So count on the same principle the US population between 30 and 40.

            With a fright?
            The USA did NOT lie that they were growing at 3 million annually. Why count them ?! belay
            1. Foul skeptic 13 November 2019 16: 04 New
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              I wrote CLEARLY: the correct number was known to TsUNHU: 160 million at the end of 1933, and not 168 million declared by Stalin.

              To call the predicted figure correct is strong of course.
              And 160 million (more precisely, the phrase that a population of 8 million more was voiced) appeared from only one source - an article in a French magazine, allegedly based on a tape recording of Kurman’s voice, who had already died 23 years before the article was released.
              You wrote clearly ... Here Popov clearly wrote in his memorandum why the calculations showed an overestimated figure.
              With a fright?
              The USA did NOT lie that they were growing at 3 million annually. Why count them ?!

              Yes, you forget your kindergarten - didn’t lie. Just count the "your" method as the shortage of population in the United States between two specific dates (1930 and 1940). Let me remind you of your method.
              168 + 3 * 3 = 177 million
              177-162 = 15 million
              1. Olgovich 14 November 2019 09: 59 New
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                Quote: A vile skeptic
                To call the predicted figure correct is strong of course.

                What is such a "forecast"? belay

                Stalin:
                our annual population growth is more than three million souls " (1930).

                "We have for the reporting period:
                ... b) The growth of the population of the Soviet Union with 160,5 million people at the end of 1930 to 168 million at the end of 1933 "(1934).


                In 1934, the forecast ... 1930? What do you?
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                And 160 million (more precisely, the phrase that a population of 8 million more was voiced) appeared from only one source - an article in a French magazine, allegedly based on a tape recording of Kurman’s voice, who had already died 23 years before the article was released.

                Nonsense: at the beginning of 1934 the statistics given by the population was only 160465,2 thousand people. Source: The population of Russia in the twentieth century / Ed. Yu.A. Polyakova. M .: ROSSPEN, 2000.V. 1. S. 346.
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                Yes, you forget your kindergarten - you didn’t lie.

                How to forget it, if this lie has become-
                1. An indicator ... of the "success" of the system, the BASIC justification for any crimes: everything is for the people, over there.
                2. indicated in all so-called What are the country’s directories?
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                Just count the "your" method as the shortage of population in the United States between two specific dates (1930 and 1940). Let me remind you of your method.

                I refuse to understand you: what is the PURPOSE of this calculation?
                In the USA, let it be as it is, they didn’t hide anything, there are all numbers by years and there is no need to count anything.
                In addition, they have their own specifics associated with the waves of immigration.
                Stalin announced 30 and 34 g and in 1935 (a constant for 6 years), about the CONSTANT growth of three million, while the KNOWN truth was completely different.
                1. Foul skeptic 14 November 2019 11: 58 New
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                  What is this ... "forecast"

                  The usual one, which was built on the basis of the population size of the 1926 census and the reproduction rate adopted according to the "version that the increase in living
                  population level automatically leads to its expanded reproduction. "
                  In 1934, the forecast ... 1930? What do you?

                  No, not the forecast of 1930, but the forecast of the first and second five-year plans built on the basis of the number of population according to the 1926 census and the reproduction rate adopted according to the "version that increasing the living standard of the population automatically leads to its expanded reproduction." So, at least 1930, at least 1934 - the source of the numbers was one.
                  Nonsense: at the beginning of 1934, the statistics given by the population figure was only 160465,2 thousand people. Source: The population of Russia in the twentieth century / Ed. Yu.A. Polyakova. M .: ROSSPEN, 2000.V. 1.P. 346.

                  As I like, when you take the liberty of citing sources of information)) The source of the information provided is not ROSSPEN’s book, but the Demoscope website (although there is something that Soros’s money does), but since there is a link to this book, then you decide to attribute it. And so maybe they saw that it says the same thing that I wrote (which is not surprising, the drafters from Zhiromskaya borrowed this):
                  The State Planning Commission and TsUNHU believed that "the law of the population of the socialist economy during the first five-year period is the law of stabilization of the pace at a relatively high level - 2,2-2,3%
                  (in America - 0,9, in Japan - 1,2, in Italy - 0,85). The law of the population for the second five-year plan is a law in comparison with the first five-year plan of the narrowing spiral of population growth ... The growth rate of the population for the second five-year period is set at an average of 1,82%. Roughly speaking,
                  the annual population growth for the second five-year period was estimated at about 3 million people

                  And there it was accidentally written that "based on this forecast, I. Stalin, in a speech at the XVII Congress of VK P (6), called the number of the population of the USSR - 168 million people (at the end of 1933)." And this is direct confirmation of where Stalin got the figure from and that it was not correctly calculated.
                  And the cherry on the cake - Stalin was given information that in 1930, 160,5 million people. And in the same book of ROSSPEN, a table is given that TSUNHU, for 1930, received the figure of 155,9 million. Do you understand? By calculation, you can get any number. But this is only a calculated figure. I have already given you the "methodology" which Andreev used - 1024 unknowns in the system of equations, it is impossible to solve, therefore all the unknowns were accepted by the researchers themselves, therefore there can be no talk of any accuracy, even though Andreev already had the aftertaste.
                  How to forget this, if this lie has become-indicated in all the so-called country directories

                  I beg you, an adult like a man. I can show you errors in Rosstat-2018 from Rosstat, I even wrote a letter and received a thank you in response.
                  Lying is a deliberate distortion of information. The man demanded statistical data, they brought him, he included them in the report, they turned out to be incorrect due to
                  at that time in science there was an official version that increasing the living standard of a population automatically leads to its expanded reproduction,

                  All. Yes, the result of such an error turned out to be far-reaching. But there are no sinister conspiracies here.
                  I refuse to understand you: what is the PURPOSE of this calculation?

                  The purpose of the calculation is to show that one cannot so primitively consider the issues of the dynamics of biological populations (especially of a person where, in addition to biology, the social component is connected), as they are considered here. And not only here.
                  In the USA, let it be as it is, they didn’t hide anything, there are all numbers by years and there is no need to count anything.
                  In addition, they have their own specifics associated with the waves of immigration.

                  Accounting for migration is easy to carry out with the help of the US Department of Homeland Security - a population shortfall due to migrants in the 1930s compared to the 1920s - 430 people. Up to 302-8 million difference still oh how far.
                  Maybe it’s just necessary to understand that the mistake of all the “evidence on the fingers of murder” is that they attribute the entire shortfall due to the increase in mortality, not taking into account the decrease in the birth rate. Well, then let it be accepted to prove how the Roosevelt regime "strangled" 8-9 million of its citizens.
                  1. Olgovich 15 November 2019 10: 19 New
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                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    The usual one, which was built on the basis of the population size of the 1926 census and the reproduction rate adopted according to the "version that increase in life
                    population level automatically leads to its expanded reproduction
                    ".

                    1. What turned out to be nonsense and confirmed the illiteracy of leaders: neither the growth of wealth, nor population growth, but in fact, the death of millions from starvation
                    2. Poor, naive, unknowingly scary, gullible, visually impaired, honestly mistaken "leaders"
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    No, not the forecast of 1930, but the forecast of the first and second five-year plans built on the basis of the number of population according to the 1926 census and the reproduction rate adopted according to the "version that increasing the living standard of the population automatically leads to its expanded reproduction." So, at least 1930, at least 1934 - the source of the numbers was one.

                    Yeah and no one for 11 years years, "did not notice," "did not understand," and did not draw conclusions.

                    WITHOUT WITNESSES, FIGURES, (see above) FACTS, especially the PROHIBITION of abortions, the classification of statistical data, which you do not see at all, contradict your speculative constructions based on the narrow-minded "logic" that they knew and said ".

                    1. Can you give the numbers of the reports and the statistics reports themselves 27,28,29, 30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37gg Stalin with your numbers and subject to your speculative constructs? No? What then to talk about? AND witnesses They talk about the numbers REALLY transmitted to him.

                    2. You are making from Stalin a very stupid person (which he was not, of course)), who during many years just did not know and did not understand what was happening in his country, going through a terrible turning point. Everyone has seen, but he .... no.
                    Do you understand what you say?
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    К the information provided is not a ROSSPEN book, and the Demoscope site (although something that exists for the money of Soros), but since there is a link to this book,

                    belay Write in Russian WHAT did you want to say? what kind of abracadabra?
                    The figure, by the way, is the page indicated.
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    And there it was accidentally written that "based on this forecast, I. Stalin, in a speech at the XVII Congress of VK P (6), called the number of the population of the USSR - 168 million people (at the end of 1933)." And this is direct confirmation of where Stalin got the figure from and that it was not correctly calculated.

                    Forecast transmitted to Stalin-present. He is not here . But there is evidence of the opposite.

                    And it could not be: several million people have just died within several. months, of which the center was well aware through the OGPU, the Prosecutor’s Office, the Soviets, statistical agencies, etc.: see reports of the ogpu in Rosarchive.

                    Ahh, they didn’t report to him, right? And that is why at this congress it was announced that tens of millions of peasants stopped starving and began ...wealthy by people.
                    Again, after all, they were simply told upstairs, but what questions are there for them? yes
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    The man demanded statistical data, they brought him, he included them in the report

                    The naive victim of error (though very profitable and very on time). "Accidentally" coincided, yes. ....... So -11 years in a rowyes
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    The purpose of the calculation is to show that it is impossible primitively considersl issues of the dynamics of biological populations

                    But that’s exactly what I thought (see above quote)
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    Migration accounting easy with US Department of Homeland Security

                    Spit on the USA. Everything is clear there and there is no mystery.
                    1. Foul skeptic 15 November 2019 16: 26 New
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                      1. What turned out to be nonsense and confirmed the illiteracy of managers

                      Firstly, this population law is not nonsense, it just works in a narrow field of situational factors. Secondly, the literacy of leaders has nothing to do with it; this theory was common in the world in scientific circles at that time.
                      contradict ..., NUMBERS, (see above)

                      Especially these
                      those. in 1937: 168 + 3 * 3 = 177 million
                      177-162 = 15 million LOSS
                      Can you give the numbers of the reports and the statistics reports themselves 27,28,29, 30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37gg Stalin with your numbers and subject to your speculation? No? What then to talk about? And witnesses talk about the numbers REALLY transferred to him

                      And why are you not happy with the information from the source you proposed? The numbers are taken from there.
                      Witnesses - is this an article in a French émigré magazine based supposedly on a tape recording of the voice of Kurman, who had already died 23 years before the article was released?
                      Naive victim of error (true, very profitable and very on time)

                      What nonsense about the profitability of error? How can it be beneficial?
                      But that’s exactly what I thought

                      What are you talking about? Who counted?
                      those. in 1937: 168 + 3 * 3 = 177 million
                      177-162 = 15 million LOSS
                      Anyone who looks at population dynamics like this?
                      Spit on the USA. Everything is clear there and there is no mystery

                      If you understand it, then why is it incomprehensible here? Or you still do not understand.

                      Once again I explain my position - you will not find in any report that I deny hunger and increased mortality due to hunger, repressive activity and increased mortality due to repressive activity. But I am against such bookkeepers
                      those. in 1937: 168 + 3 * 3 = 177 million
                      177-162 = 15 million LOSS
                      against when they themselves attribute their goals and motives for others.
                      1. Olgovich 16 November 2019 07: 58 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Firstly, this population law is not nonsense, it just works in a narrow field of situational factors ..

                        I am writing about FACTS 1930-1934, not about theories. I repeat once again: there was no growth in wealth, nor population growth,
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Secondly, the literacy of leaders has nothing to do with it, this theory was generally in the world in scientific circles at that time.

                        Ahhh this literacy led to a million starvation mortality .. WHAT are you saying, huh ?! belay
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Especially these
                        those. in 1937: 168 + 3 * 3 = 177 million
                        177-162 = 15 million LOSS

                        All
                        - strictly according to Stalin: his 1930,1934,1935
                        - according to evidence (160 million),
                        by TsUNHU (160 million)
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        And why are you not happy with the information from the source you proposed? The numbers are taken from there.

                        I DO NOT SEE the information I requested: submit 11 statistical reports to Stalin with an increase of 3 million every year.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Witnesses - is this an article in a French émigré magazine based supposedly on a tape recording of the voice of Kurman, who had already died 23 years before the article was released?

                        You have nothing at all. In addition to chatter, of course
                        And I also have a decision by them to PROHIBIT abortions and to SECRET statistics. What you have not noticed for the third time ....
                        You also do not stubbornly answer: did the leadership know nothing, did not see, did not understand for MANY years what was happening with demography? And sincerely talked about ... wealthy peasants in terrible February 33 g?
                        Silence is eloquent.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        What nonsense about the profitability of error? How can it be beneficial?

                        Not errors, but intentional lies. And the lie will come always, when you need to hide the catastrophes that erupted and evade responsibility. This is what all the top do. There is such a law, "population". lol
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        What are you talking about? Who counted?
                        those. in 1937: 168 + 3 * 3 = 177 million
                        177-162 = 15 million LOSS
                        Anyone who looks at population dynamics like this?

                        The one who talked about this in 1930-1934,1935. Each year, 3 million. WHAT is not clear?
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        If you understand it, then why is it incomprehensible here? Or do you still unclear.

                        You did not understand the subject of my misunderstanding: and these are not numbers (with them, just everything is clear)
                        But something else is not clear: how could such a lie be so shamelessly!
                      2. Foul skeptic 17 November 2019 11: 10 New
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                        WHAT are you saying, huh ?!

                        Simple things that you can’t understand or no desire to understand, but rather both
                        I DO NOT SEE the information I requested: submit 11 statistical reports to Stalin with an increase of 3 million every year.

                        As predictable ... start demanding what is not.
                        So provide them, it is you who say that such reports were to him annually.
                        I say (and others, including in the source you proposed) that three million is a growth calculated once for two five-year periods and accepted as one for two five-year periods.
                        What you have not noticed for the third time ....
                        You also do not stubbornly answer: did the leadership know nothing, did not see, did not understand for MANY years what was happening with demography?

                        Well? To tell you about abortion? In order to understand why they were banned, you need to understand why they were allowed and what problems arose in connection with this permission. And for this, you need to read the doctors of that time, and not the demoscope site. In the absence of a pregnancy planning culture and contraceptives, women perceived abortion as a “substitute for contraception.” With all the ensuing negative consequences from such a "substitution." All the time until the prohibition of abortion, explanatory work was carried out with women, both in medical institutions, and up to visiting campaign groups, giving lectures "on the topic" at enterprises, institutions and in rural areas. In 1935, the first plant for the production of "mechanical" contraceptives was opened in the USSR. In 1936, non-medical abortion was banned. They were allowed only when the generation of women grew up, which already knew that they can be protected by methods that are less destructive to health.
                        We had to classify the statistics when we figured out that the calculation was made according to overstated indicators and turned out to be very overstated. And homegrown accountants like you, counting exactly the same
                        "168 + 3 * 3 = 177 million
                        177-162 = 15 million LOSS
                        because otherwise, because of their ignorance, they could not have counted, would have derived exactly the same ridiculous figures. Not understanding why such a calculation is not true.
                        And if in a quiet time people could explain this mistake (in the 60-70s easily) and they would understand it, then in the 30s, when there was hunger and repression, the whole "shortage" would be attributed just to the bill hunger and repression. What's wrong. But in the country there was a mass of people who were interested in the fact that the townsfolk began to think that way. That is the whole reason for secrecy.
                        Not errors, but intentional lies

                        Eeee, so are these planning bodies intentionally lying? )) So you take the side of those who then “lynched” them at 37. If you start again about the fact that these figures did not come from the planning authorities, but from Stalin, then all the same, “submit 11 statistical reports to Stalin.” And always color scans with a resolution of at least 300 dpi))
                        Ask any modern demographer, he will tell you that in order to calculate population growth in the first and second five-year periods, a simplified methodology was adopted with the setting of inflated variables, which in any situation would show overestimated figures. This is mistake
                        But something else is not clear: how could such a lie be so shamelessly!

                        Tell me, when did you recently write about the "appeal of the St. Petersburg workers" - did you shamelessly tell a lie or were you just off topic? That was exactly the same in that case.
                      3. Olgovich 17 November 2019 12: 50 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Simple thingsthat you can’t understand or have no desire to understand, but rather both

                        I do not see them: you have nothing to understand.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        As predictable ... start demanding what is not.
                        So provide them, it is you who say that such reports were to him annually.

                        belay
                        Myself, remember? Nope:
                        Vile Skeptic Well were given the person has incorrect data, he voiced them.
                        Or with a Russian problem?
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        In the absence of a pregnancy planning culture and contraception, women perceived abortion as a "substitute for contraception." With all the ensuing negative consequences from such a "substitution."

                        yes yes and it took 16 years, to understand .... "lack of culture. lol
                        Moreover, it did not stop ... rejoice in growth in 1926 and "horrified" after ... ten years.
                        You are ridiculous, excuse me lol .
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        We had to classify the statistics when we figured out that the calculation was made according to overstated indicators and turned out to be very overstated. And homegrown accountants like you, counting exactly the same
                        "168 + 3 * 3 = 177 million
                        177-162 = 15 million LOSS
                        because otherwise, because of their ignorance, they could not have counted, would have derived exactly the same ridiculous figures. Not understanding why such a calculation is not true.
                        And if in a quiet time people could explain this mistake (in the 60-70s easily) and they would understand it, then in the 30s, when there was hunger and repression, the whole "shortage" would be attributed just to the bill hunger and repression. What's wrong. But in the country there was a mass of people who were interested in the fact that the townsfolk began to think that way. That's all reason for secrecy.

                        1. What is so.
                        2. No one is interested in what a bizarre brew was brewing in the heads of the tops, as a cause of lies: people HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW THE TRUTH, they are not cattle and nobody's own. it's up to you to inform her or not. am
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Eeee, so are these planning bodies intentionally lying? )) So you take the side of those who then “lynched” them at 37. If you start again about the fact that these figures did not come from the planning authorities, but from Stalin, then all the same, “submit 11 statistical reports to Stalin.” And always color scans with a resolution of at least 300 dpi))
                        Ask any modern demographer, he will tell you that in order to calculate population growth in the first and second five-year periods, a simplified methodology was adopted with the setting of inflated variables, which in any situation would show overestimated figures. This is mistake

                        Yeah, i.e. You are THIRD times stubbornly not noticing my answer. I repeat:
                        You also do not stubbornly answer: did the leadership know nothing, did not see, did not understand for MANY years what was going on with demography? And sincerely talked about ... wealthy peasants in terrible February 33 g?
                        Silence is eloquent.

                        Those. it was blind, deaf, slow-witted and did not understand, did not feel and did not know WHAT is happening in the country at the BREAKTHROUGH? belay What parallel reality did they live in then?

                        And the data is classified ... in early 30sbecause in .... 1937 realized that they were wrong lol.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Tell me, when did you recently write about the "appeal of the St. Petersburg workers" - you shamelessly told a lie or just were not in the subject? That was exactly the same in that case.

                        There is no archival file, liar.
                      4. Foul skeptic 18 November 2019 18: 52 New
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                        Myself, remember? Nope:

                        I remember. I didn’t mention anywhere what you demanded and what was redirected to you
                        You can give the numbers of reports and the statistics reports themselves 27,28,29, 30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37gg

                        When I wrote about
                        Well, they gave the person incorrect data, he voiced them

                        It was meant
                        The man demanded statistical data, because he was preparing the report, they brought him, he included them in the report, they turned out to be incorrect

                        There was no where he could get the exact data from, even knowing about hunger, it was impossible to quantify its consequences. Such at that time was accounting. In principle, Andreev and Darskaya should be trusted, since they themselves once referred to them?
                        Until 1933, no information was collected on the coverage of the territory by the registry office. After 1933, in reports containing information on the number of births and deaths, the percentage of coverage was indicated, however, not for all territories. All estimates of registry office coverage contained in archival materials prior to this year are based on indirect data.

                        The incompleteness of statistics for all the pre-war years up to 1941 was due to two reasons: firstly, the presence of territories where there was no accounting at all or it was not conducted all year round, and secondly, the incomplete registration of births and deaths, where such accounting was carried out. Estimates of the proportion of the population covered by registration differ among different authors (Kurman - 90%, CSB -80%, note mine)
                        According to the summary for 1934, even in the regions that were considered covered by registration, it was actually carried out only on a part of the territory (from 99,3% in the cities of Belarus to 44,1% in the rural Asian part of the RSFSR and 7% in rural Uzbekistan) . In 1935, of the 5040 monthly reports of registry offices that were supposed to come from the Tajik SSR, only 1266 were actually received.

                        That is, there could not be a correct figure from the REGISTRY OFFICES, since incomplete accounting. Therefore, an ASSESSMENT of population movement was made

                        Current estimates of the population in the 30s deviated from reality, as they were based on exaggerated data on natural growth. Planning authorities generally relied on their own unqualified estimates and projections of the country's population.
                        This led to an exaggeration of the natural increase, and therefore the current estimates of the population. TsUNHU employees knew about the underreporting but the results of the checks, but did not introduce any amendments to the existing results of registration of natural movement, because they could not or did not dare to quantify it.

                        1. What is so.
                        2. No one is interested in what a bizarre brew was brewing in the heads of the tops, as a cause of lies: people HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW THE TRUTH, they are not cattle and nobody's own. it's up to you to inform her or not.

                        1) If so, then you also agree that Roosevelt has genocide 30 million of his citizens.
                        2) Yeah, that’s how the states in the world even now, not to mention the second quarter of the 20th century, all present to their citizens right on a plate and do not secret anything. Do not forget to direct your righteous anger at them.
                        yes, yes, and it took 16 (!) years to understand .... "lack of culture.

                        Mdaaa ... it is necessary for you 16 years to understand something
                        It took 16 years not to understand the lack of culture immediately, but to organize and carry out work on the sexual education of women and to begin the spread of contraception.
                        the leadership that - did not know anything, did not see, did not understand for MANY years what was going on

                        And when, for example, Putin on a straight line or after another "landing" is sincerely surprised at what is happening on the ground, he also does not know, does not see and does not understand?
                        Have you ever been the leader of something large, with a large number of staff and an extensive organizational structure?
                        There is the number of archives

                        So not in the subject)))
                        And what, what is the archive number?
                        In this case is the issue of the Vperyod newspaper, in which this appeal is printed. Only. I already asked you, since when did Messrs. Bogdanov and Smirnov become St. Petersburg workers?
                        That is exactly the same way something may turn out to be the head of something.
                      5. Olgovich 19 November 2019 09: 56 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        It was meant
                        Man demanded statistical data, therefore that prepared the report, they brought him, he included them in the report, they turned out to be wrong

                        Yeah, it means that you have a problem with Russian: "they gave it once" and "they gave it are words that are different in meaning.

                        Although, of course, you are lying: because he was given several times, at least: in 1930, 1934 and 1935, exactly
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        No where he had the exact data to come from, even knowing about hunger, could not be estimated its effects are quantified.

                        Of course, it’s “impossible”: thousands of reports by the OGPU, the prosecutor’s office, advice on the mass deaths of people with humanity, from the vast territory of the Caucasus-Verny to Ryazan-Gomel “did not give” reason to at least keep silent, but gave reason to yell about ... “successes in demographics. yes

                        “They didn’t know”, yes, that's why they issued a decree of the Central Committee and the government, driving tens of millions starving back to extinct villages and cities, preventing them from being saved in more bread-covered areas.
                        Do you hear yourself? no
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        That is, there could not be a correct figure from the REGISTRY OFFICES, since incomplete accounting. Therefore, an ASSESSMENT of population movement was made

                        Yes, but only one thing was not clear: exactly how many millions died and how many millions were not born, but it was definitely known that it was many millions
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        1) If so, then you also agree that Roosevelt has genocide 30 million of his citizens.

                        No. In the USA - EVERYTHING IS UNDERSTANDING AND TRANSPARENT,
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        2) Yeah, that’s how the states in the world even now, not to mention the second quarter of the 20th century, all present to their citizens right on a plate and do not secret anything. Do not forget to direct your righteous anger at them.

                        Asha, Show me where they are silent about the death of their 7 million citizens for 10 months of a peaceful year. Start: 1), 2) ......
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Mdaaa ... it is necessary for you 16 years to understand something
                        It took 16 years not to understand the lack of culture immediately, but to organize and carry out work on the sexual education of women and to begin the spread of contraception.

                        You weren’t even 50 years old to understand
                        1. first conduct training and introduce contraception, and then allow abortion
                        2. in the bone heads of the "educators" such a zeuma could not arise.
                        3. only when the bone dashed with all the dope, then they introduced a ban
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        And when, for example, Putin on a straight line or after another "landing" is sincerely surprised at what is happening on the ground, he also does not know, does not see and does not understand?
                        Have you ever been the leader of something large, with a large number of staff and an extensive organizational structure?

                        1.Do you pretend? Do you compare a world-wide demographic catastrophe with official theft?
                        2. The director is building. company.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        So not in the subject)))
                        And what, what is the archive number?
                        In this case is the issue of the Vperyod newspaper, in which this appeal is printed. Only. I already asked you, since when did Messrs. Bogdanov and Smirnov become St. Petersburg workers?

                        So you are not at all a copegagen:

                        Materials of the XNUMXst meeting of the Extraordinary Assembly
                        authorized factories of Petrograd on March 13

                        Protocol Record

                        Representatives of the following enterprises are present:

                        Putilovsky plant, Semyannikovsky, Obukhov, Pipe, Baltic,
                        Alexander Mechanical, Gunpowder, Siemens and Halske,
                        Westinghouse, Locomotive workshops of Mykolayiv railroad [rail], railcar
                        workshops (behind the Moscow outpost), car building workshops
                        Nikol [Aevsky] rail [ogo], Locomotive workshops (beyond Narva
                        outpost), Carriage workshops Sev [ero] -Zap [hell] gland [ezny]
                        Dor [ogi], Factories: Pal, Maxwell, Pylinin, Bligken and Robinson, Electric
                        stations, printing houses: Golike, "Kopeyka", "Slovo", First State,
                        Sixth State
                        .

                        AND THE FOURTH TIME I will not deny myself the pleasure of hearing your silence in response to simple questions:
                        did the leadership know nothing, did not see, did not understand for MANY years what was going on with demography? And sincerely talked about ... wealthy peasants in terrible February 33 g?
                        What parallel reality did they live in then?
                        yes
                      6. Foul skeptic 19 November 2019 10: 38 New
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                        I’m not even voicing my thoughts to you, I’m giving you an assessment of the then statistics from the books of researchers-demographers, but this does not suit you.
                        conduct training and contraception first, and then allow abortion

                        Abortion at the hospital was less evil than abortion at home. Therefore, I had to resort to such a measure.
                        No. IN THE USA - EVERYTHING IS UNDERSTANDING AND TRANSPARENT

                        And what do you understand?
                        7 million citizens in 10 months

                        that’s why they did it and did it right, because such “calculations” would certainly have appeared. And about 12 would have appeared, And about 13. What really is there. It is difficult to consider where there is no data only to those who have a conscience. The rest is easy.
                        The director is building. the company

                        And you want to say that you did not encounter the provision of incorrect information that you relayed to you? Or a two-man fence installation company? Then maybe
                        So you are not at all a copegagen

                        wrote a man who, in fact, before that wrote that
                        You are the Declaration of the Fourth Extraordinary Congress of Soviets
                        I - it will not be difficult for you to tell where this "appeal" appeared
                        You - At the congress of the so-called tips appeared, it’s written

                        laughing laughing laughing
                        And now I had to google it and already
                        I meeting of the Extraordinary Meeting of Commissioners

                        But that still doesn't make you the topic. Or they would have known that the appeal was written by Bogdanov, voiced by Smirnov (and some interesting biographies), listened to by representatives, met with mixed feelings. But since the Mensheviks, pushed away from the trough, need to rock the boat at all costs, it is distributed in factories in the form of proclamations and printed for wide coverage in the Menshevik newspaper Vperyod (after the 4th Congress of Soviets). She never appeared at the congress, since it was never set a goal by Mr. Bogdanov.
                      7. Olgovich 19 November 2019 12: 42 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        I’m not even voicing my thoughts to you, I’m giving you an assessment of the then statistics from the books of researchers-demographers, but this does not suit you.

                        And I brought you demographers, you yourself and common sense_You are not satisfied with ANYTHING.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Abortion at the hospital was less evil than abortion at home. Therefore, I had to resort to such a measure.

                        According to medical indications, they were always in hospitals.
                        But in 1920 there was NOTHING to feed the people as a result of the "achievements" of the power (wild hunger since 1918), reading the abortion order: in view of the HEAVY MAT for the position of a woman.
                        They didn’t give a damn about women, as such: in 20 g the "extra" children interfered — they allowed abortions, in 35 g there weren’t enough working hands and they forbade them. But no, demographics DO NOT obey bone heads. It was easy to create a catastrophe ....
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        And what do you understand?

                        All. And you something, no? belay
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        that’s why they did it and did it right, because such “calculations” would certainly have appeared. And about 12 would have appeared, And about 13. What really is there. It is difficult to consider where there is no data only to those who have a conscience. The rest is easy.

                        This is not private. it’s up to the people to decide what they know and what not. People had the right to it: they are dying and suffering, and resolvers.

                        From which there would have been no dust left in the free election at the same time.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        And you want to say that you did not encounter the provision of incorrect information that you relayed to you? Or a two-man fence installation company? Then maybe

                        What are you talking about: I'm not a dumb ass to broadcast the obvious nonsense, my duty is to know, otherwise .... belay request Fences, so fences. lol ....
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        You are the Declaration of the Fourth Extraordinary Congress of Soviets
                        I - it will not be difficult for you to tell where this "appeal" appeared
                        You - At the congress of the so-called tips appeared, it’s written


                        And now I had to google it and already
                        I meeting of the Extraordinary Meeting of Commissioners

                        I'm glad you use Google. yes

                        But do not carry nonsense: my source is primary sources (and I advise you) of the archives, where there are ALL the materials of the ChSUFZ, from where the passages 1 and 2 are given (TsGA SPb. F. 3390. Op. 1. D. 13. L. 1).

                        declaration accepted by ChSUFZ BEFORE the so-called Congress of Soviets, was spread out and the Congress of Soviets is thus known (appeared).
                        Your rate
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        the Mensheviks, pushed away from the trough, must swing the boat at all costs,

                        -the smallest that is interesting.
                        An interesting fact is the assessment of WORKING crimes of power
                      8. Foul skeptic 19 November 2019 13: 35 New
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                        But in 1920 there was NOTHING to feed the people as a result of the "achievements" of the power (wild hunger since 1918), reading the abortion order: in view of the HEAVY MAT for the position of a woman.

                        how do you perceive information distorted, you are simply amazed.
                        Abortions were not introduced in order to limit the birth rate, but in order to save 4% of women who, regardless of whether he will be officially allowed or not, will make it clandestine and die from complications. There is no need to weave financial position - this factor would be the same whether abortion would be legalized or not.
                        I'm not a dumb ass to broadcast obvious bullshit

                        and if it is not obvious, then relay?
                        and the congress of councils is thus known

                        really? and in the minutes of the congress of councils about this no gu-gu.
                        Your rate the least that is interesting
                        An interesting fact is the evaluation by WORKERS

                        So these are not only my assessments of the activities of this Menshevik organization. This is said by modern historians and, most funny, by its participants themselves. The same Berg or Denike. And, in general, the fact of evaluation is a fact of evaluation (and I already wrote that it is ambiguous). You wrote - the workers wrote (it begins with the words "We, the workers"). Tell me the workers who wrote it.
                        This declaration is a prime example of political populism. Only. And no workers have ever stood behind its creation.
                      9. Olgovich 20 November 2019 10: 18 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        So these are not only my assessments of the activities of this Menshevik organization. This is said by modern historians and, most funny, by its participants themselves. The same Berg or Denike. And, in general, the fact of evaluation is a fact of evaluation (and I already wrote that it is ambiguous). You wrote - the workers wrote (it begins with the words "We, the workers"). Tell me the workers who wrote it.
                        This declaration is a prime example of political populism. Only. And no workers have ever stood behind its creation.

                        Declaration ACCEPTED by ChSUFZ, workers - with factories listed above in the same document there are also their SURNAMES.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        how do you perceive information distorted, you are simply amazed.
                        Abortions were not introduced in order to limit the birth rate, but in order to save 4% of women who, regardless of whether he will be officially allowed or not, will make it clandestine and die from complications. There is no need to weave financial position - this factor would be the same whether abortion would be legalized or not.

                        They didn't give a damn about women: who helped millions of women who died of starvation in 1922?
                        From the Order:
                        difficult economic conditions of the present still force some women to decide on this operation, decides:
                        I. It is allowed to carry out a free operation to terminate a pregnancy in the setting of Soviet hospitals, where its maximum safety is ensured.

                        Do you hear no? DEVELOPMENT, HUNGER forced to get rid of the "leaders" of the "people's" state from the "parasites".

                        FIRST in the world (other countries were "Turks", yes). TEN TIMES abortions increased, the DISASTER occurred, when there is more abortion in a single country in the world than in the whole world.

                        And, of course, the “fight” against abortion was Soviet: Banned abortion statistics from 1929. They closed their eyes and the problem disappeared! good
                        2. Yes, the situation of a woman with a child and without- "SAME" for women and the state lol laughing
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        really? and in the minutes of the congress of councils about this no gu-gu.

                        And what about the Bolsheviks "gu-gu"? Everywhere-gross lies, violence, falsifications, treachery and betrayal: read the materials of ChSUFZ (they worked in 1919).
                        Acceleration, executions, fake elections from dead souls, police and dictatorship: all the dirt of "power" out: with facts, names, etc.
                      10. Foul skeptic 20 November 2019 18: 37 New
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                        Declaration ACCEPTED by ChSUFZ, workers from the plants listed above, in the same document there are also their SURNAMES
                        And what about the Bolsheviks "gu-gu"? ... read the materials of ChSUFZ (they worked in 1919)

                        You understand that you have reduced the St. Petersburg workers to six dozen people opposition party? Or don't you understand?
                        I read the materials of the CSF Federal Law back before our conversation (this is clear already because I knew how this "declaration" appeared). You understand that meetings are thematically prepared by org. committee, at meetings workers are just extras, which are skillfully heated. You see the same thing in any modern election. In order to understand the ins and outs of the ChSU Federal Law, one must read the memoirs of the Mensheviks, where they describe their activities without cuts. The same Dubois. Or modern researchers of the labor movement. From ours, even Churakov, from foreign paths of the same Garvey.
                        "Neither gu-gu" means not "did not say," but "did not know."
                        They didn't give a damn about women: who helped millions of women who died of starvation in 1922?

                        our song is good. Even according to Andreev and Darskaya, the supermortality of persons of both sexes in 1922 was 1,4 million. That is, they took it and increased it by at least 2,5 times, which is really embarrassing. And then we continue to lie shamelessly about the lack of help and measures to reduce the effects of hunger.
                        difficult economic conditions of the present

                        in isolation from the full text, you pulled out the phrase and meditate on it. But where are the Bolsheviks who hide everything in the world? There, honestly recognize the difficult economic conditions. And also
                        THERE in the document abortions are called EVIL.
                        Affirms the need to FIGHT them.
                        Confidence is expressed that abortion will gradually DISAPPEAR.
                        FIRST in the world (other countries were "Turks", yes). TEN TIMES abortions increased

                        I have repeatedly brought you documents showing that the doctors of the Russian Empire advocated abortion.
                        I have already told you more than once that other countries are probably “Turks” now, since they have allowed abortions.
                        The fact that abortion has grown dozens of times only shows how many miscarriages had been done before on their own, either through attendants or underground.
                        Yes, mat status of a woman with a child and without- "SAME" for a woman and a state

                        It is not the same with or without a child, it is equally legal abortion or not (and that’s exactly what I have written, it’s just that the Chukchi is not a reader, the Chukchi is a writer)
                      11. Olgovich 21 November 2019 10: 33 New
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                        [quote = Vile skeptic] Do you understand that you have reduced the St. Petersburg workers to six dozen people of the opposition party? Or don't you understand?
                        I read the materials of the CSF Federal Law back before our conversation (this is clear already because I knew how this "declaration" appeared). . [/ quote]
                        Do you understand that your assessments, the assessments of the notorious apoget of notorious bankrupts, are not interesting?

                        We discuss FACTS

                        I spent several days reading the materials of the ChSUFZ and long before you: there the WORKERS give the FACTS of crimes, lies, violence of manipulation of power.
                        Refute their point by point. [quote = Vile skeptic] our song is good. Even according to Andreev and Darskaya, the supermortality of persons of both sexes in 1922 was 1,4 million. That is, they took it and increased it by at least 2,5 times, which is really embarrassing. And then we continue shamelessly lie about the lack of help and measures to reduce the effects of hunger. [/ quote]
                        1. 5 million counts in victims of famine, recognized by TSB councils. liar
                        2. The biggest help from the so-called "power" would be to shoot yourself. That would save another millions and millions, both in 1925 and 1933 [quote = The vile skeptic] you, in isolation from the full text, pulled out the phrase and discuss it. But where are the Bolsheviks who hide everything in the world? There, honestly recognize the difficult economic conditions. And also
                        THERE in the document abortions are called EVIL.
                        Affirms the need STRUGGLE with them.
                        Confidence is expressed that abortion will gradually DISAPPEAR. [/ Quote]
                        1. This is their recognition of the results of their "activity". But how to hide them, if EVERYTHING lives in IT?

                        And the entourage of FALSE chatter around "evil" is their usual hypocritical Pharisaism.

                        2. Facts do not see? Abortions did not disappear, but became a catastrophe of the country — this is the result of their “struggle”

                        [quote = An infamous skeptic] I have already told you more than once that other countries are probably "Turks" now, since they have allowed abortions. [/ quote]
                        Yeah, but after FORTY YEARS, after the "advanced workers." The difference is NOT getting through? And now there, with huge reservations, the same England and Germany are to the rescue. [Quote = Vile skeptic] The fact that abortion has grown tenfold only shows how many miscarriages have been done before, either through grandmothers or underground. [/ Quote ]
                        unsubstantiated nonsense: many SAVED children, since it is impossible [quote = Vile skeptic] It is not the same with or without a child, it is the same legalized abortion or not / quote]
                        With the ban, children are born, with all flowed out, if it did not.
                        [quote = Vile skeptic] is simply not a reader of Chukchi, Chukchi writer) [/ quote]
                        You have a rare nationality, I must admit, but why are you telling me her? belay request
                      12. Foul skeptic 21 November 2019 19: 15 New
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                        Refute them point by point

                        They refute themselves. It is enough to know that for the world in which they accuse the Bolsheviks in 1918, in 1917, Mr. Smirnov personally rallied in the squares. Ordinary political prostitution. So I better refute you.
                        In the topic "Anniversary of the Great October Socialist Revolution" dated 07.11.2019/XNUMX/XNUMX you wrote that:
                        1) This declaration appeared 4 emergency congress of councils.
                        At the congress, the so-called tips appeared, it’s written

                        2) Workers wrote this declaration
                        WORKERS wrote

                        Which directly shows your lack of knowledge on this topic. Since such statements are not true. And the fact that you, after being dipped into your amateurism, and you got with the help of Google Index to reading the minutes of the meeting, did not make you smarter.
                        5 million counts in victims of hunger, recognized by the councils in the TSB. liar

                        Hush hush...
                        Here is what you wrote
                        to millions starved women in 1922 г

                        five million, this is for four years from 20 to 23 and of both sexes.
                        and in 1922, 5324-3904 = 1420 thousand people. supermortality of both sexes.
                        Yeah, but after FORTY YEARS, after the "advanced workers." The difference is NOT getting through?

                        And what is the difference? But in nothing. You are again completely off topic and trying to judge serious things.
                        I have repeatedly brought you documents showing that the doctors of the Russian Empire advocated abortion.
                        unsubstantiated nonsense: many SAVED children, since it’s impossible

                        and I look at your thought, you prove in this proposal, the direct arguments are so convincing. laughing
                        With the ban, children are born, with all flowed out, if it did not.

                        With the ban, fruit expulsion is done either on their own or with the grandmother. If only pre-revolutionary gynecologists would be revered.
                      13. Olgovich 22 November 2019 11: 09 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic

                        They refute themselves. It is enough to know that for the world in which they accuse the Bolsheviks in 1918, in 1917, Mr. Smirnov personally rallied in the squares. Ordinary political prostitution. So I better refute you.
                        In the topic "Anniversary of the Great October Socialist Revolution" dated 07.11.2019/XNUMX/XNUMX you wrote that:
                        1) This declaration appeared 4 emergency congress of councils.
                        At the congress, the so-called tips appeared, it’s written

                        2) Workers wrote this declaration
                        WORKERS wrote

                        Which directly shows your lack of knowledge on this topic. Since such statements are not true. And the fact that you, after being dipped into your amateurism, and you got with the help of Google Index to reading the minutes of the meeting, did not make you smarter.

                        1. easy-going brought by the occupiers from Switzerland

                        2. The declaration was adopted at the CONGRESS of authorized workers.
                        Published. Known, i.e., so-called "going out." Did you deny it, liar? No.

                        3.It hasn’t reached you yet request I don’t give a damn about what you think about me and how you value it.
                        Accordingly, I have no purpose to prove my knowledge of the topic before the conversation. Who are you, to me, to do this? What do you think of yourself? belay lol .
                        Quote: A vile skeptic

                        Hush hush...
                        Here is what you wrote
                        millions of women starving to death in 1922

                        five million, this is for four years from 20 to 23 and of both sexes.
                        and in 1922, 5324-3904 = 1420 thousand people. supermortality of both sexes.

                        1. Hunger is called "1921-22" years and his peak was fall-spring 21-22 g and divide by 4 years evenly it fool
                        2. Central Statistical Bureau: population deficit for the period from 1920 to 1922 equal to 5 million people
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        And what is the difference? But in nothing. You are again completely off topic and trying to judge serious things.

                        If the difference hasn’t reached you, then there’s nothing to talk about with you: you are an absolute zero, and I’m not an alcoholic.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        and I look at your thought, you prove in this proposal, the direct arguments are so convincing.

                        Do you prove that the earth revolves around the sun? yes What for?! Do not agree, and yes. with yes These
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        With the ban, fruit expulsion is done either on their own or with the grandmother. If only pre-revolutionary gynecologists would be revered.

                        The ban increases the number of births - read at least something.
                      14. Foul skeptic 22 November 2019 13: 24 New
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                        easy behavior brought by the occupiers from Switzerland

                        Those whom you call the "invaders," Mr. Smirnov and Borisov did not bring from the "Switzerland"
                        And by the way, why do you use the word "occupier". The occupier, is a participant in the act of occupation from the country of the occupier. That is, the occupier always has the citizenship (citizenship) of the occupying country, and not the occupied country.
                        Declaration adopted at the congress of authorized workers

                        Do not sculpt a hunchback, you wrote another))
                        "Fourth Extraordinary Congress of Soviets"
                        I ask where it originally appeared and you again
                        "At the congress T.N. of soviets appeared, it is written"

                        This is what you have already learned about ChSU Federal Law, which is an "Extraordinary Meeting of Commissioners from Factories and Plants"
                        Which is a "meeting", not a "congress." And not "advice." And don’t even start to soar about what you meant. You wouldn’t write "so-called councils, "your illogical hatred played a cruel joke with you here - or is it about the CSF ZF so neglectful, the so-called? laughing
                        1. The famine is called "1921-22", and its peak was in the autumn and spring of 21-22 g and divided by 4 years evenly is a fool
                        2. Central Statistical Bureau: population deficit for the period from 1920 to 1922 equal to 5 million people

                        And again sculpt the hunchback, you wrote another))):
                        millions of starvation women in 1922 г

                        No need to jump on the population deficit for 1920-1922 (3 years), do I dispute this somewhere? I say that in 1922, millions (and this is 2 or more) of women did not die of starvation, thereby you overestimated the situation that happened at least 2,5 times.
                        Moreover, I do not evenly divide anywhere 5 into four years. Show me the division operation in this laughing :
                        in 1922, 5324-3904 = 1420 thousand people. supermortality of both sexes

                        The ban increases the number of births - read at least something.

                        And again the same rake ... laughing
                        Have I denied somewhere that the ban will increase the number of births? I said that the ban will increase the number of fruit expulsions. And the "cry of Yaroslavna" that the resolution of abortion reduces the birth rate and thereby can significantly affect the demographic situation is not confirmed by practice, it is enough to look at the dynamics of the birth rate since 1920. Even your favorite Demoscope dumpster has the same opinion on this subject:
                        Demographers have long known that there is no direct connection between the birth rate and the prevalence of abortion, especially now, when there are other ways to regulate childbearing ...
                        His meagerness just indicates that women continued to regulate the number of births, and with an extremely weak culture of contraception in the USSR at that time this was possible only due to the widespread proliferation of clandestine abortions.
                        The birth rate is determined by the intentions of people, and not by the means by which they realize these intentions. Means are different, abortion is only one of them, now it is already very archaic. Legislation does not affect abortion prevalence, but procedure safety[39]. Prohibited abortion is much more dangerous than permitted.
                      15. Olgovich 22 November 2019 14: 53 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Those whom you call the "invaders," Mr. Smirnov and Borisov didn't bring from "switzerland"

                        no, of course: they brought simply. From switzerland
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        And by the way, why do you use the word "occupier". The occupier, is a participant in the act of occupation from the country of the occupier. That is, the occupier always citizenship (citizenship) of the occupying country, not the occupied country.

                        belay
                        AND? GERMAN invaders and brought. jammed?
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        This is what you have already learned about ChSU Federal Law, which is an "Extraordinary Meeting of Commissioners from Factories and Plants"

                        I am brought a declaration with the CSU (about which you are neither sleeping, nor digging) and ... just found out? belay lol
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        And don’t even start to soar about what you meant. Would you not write “so-called tips” then, your illogical hatred played a cruel joke with you here - or is it you about the CSF ZF that is so dismissive, the so-called?

                        1 "Sculpt, soar, women's clothes" - take this away from me: look for a partner in your club and the club elsewhere
                        2. Do not burden me with your bizarre visions: a declaration was born - at the ChSU, appeared - at the SS (which he could not write to himself) request
                        didn’t reach even 4 GO times? lol
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        No need to jump on the population deficit for 1920-1922 (3 years), do I dispute this somewhere? I say that in 1922, millions (and this is 2 or more) of women did not die of starvation, thereby you overestimated the situation that happened at least 2,5 times.
                        Moreover, I do not evenly divide anywhere 5 into four years. Show me in this division operation

                        Killing by hunger, not scarcity. By stupidity (what happened) or intentionally, not the essence.
                        More than 2 million women died in 21 and 22 g. And most likely. and more, because NOBODY counted them.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Have I denied somewhere that the ban will increase the number of births? I said the ban increase the number of fruit exiles

                        "again deuce." those. falsehood or sclerosis: itata: Foul skeptic
                        With prohibition, fruit exile is made
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        . And the "cry of Yaroslavna" that the resolution of abortion reduces the birth rate and thereby can significantly affect the demographic situation is not confirmed by practice, it is enough to look at the dynamics of the birth rate since 1920. Even your favorite garbage dump Demoscope has the same opinion on this subject:
                        Demographers have long known that there is no direct relationship between fertility and the prevalence of abortion, especially nowwhen there are other ways to control childbearing ...

                        "Now"?! We are talking about "then."
                        When there was no Soviet ugly abortion culture. And when she is like a cancerous tumor. spread across the country when the prosperous NEP peasants passed then
                        At B. Urlanis there was every reason to believethat a decree banning abortion was adopted, “on the assumption that the continued spread of abortion threatened with even greater declining birth rates»

                        What is the dynamics of the birth rate coffer?
                        And, as is quite rightly written in the Demoscope (an excellent publication, compared to Bolshevik. Lying garbage)
                        Birth rate is determined by intentions people, not the means by which they carry out these intentions.
                        .
                        And intentions were determined by CIRCUMSTANCES and living conditions as indicated to you from the abortion order: the plight of people, primarily women: giving birth in hunger, in the cold, in barracks for hundreds of people, in cellars and attics, no one wanted.
                        And then they got used to it, with a 2,1 child.

                        Yes, and again: determined by intentions people, not means
                        Those. with the “damned” tsarism, people WANTED to give birth to children, and with the “people's power, there is NO

                        here those “live became more fun” and “the population began to multiply much faster than in the old time. There are more births, and there is incomparably more net growth”

                        drowned in this :: Lies, hypocrisy, nonsense, stupidity.
                      16. Foul skeptic 22 November 2019 17: 54 New
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                        GERMAN invaders and brought

                        I misunderstood you, about the German invaders, I agree with the remark, except for that part about ,, ok - Messrs. Smirnov and Borisov themselves got)))
                        I brought a declaration с Csu

                        and at the same time they gave her away
                        T.N. tips

                        laughing Himself is not funny?
                        a declaration was born - at the CSU, appeared - at the SS

                        well yes well yes and her
                        WORKERS wrote

                        everything right in your place converges. You managed to pretend to be a fool with a "birth-appearance", but here Mr. Borisov will not be able to "reincarnate" as a worker lol tongue
                        more than 2 million women in 21 and 22

                        take it here in the appendage or 20 or 23, otherwise you still will not reach "more than 2" for all reasons.
                        Foul skeptic
                        With prohibition, fruit exile is made

                        Yes, because with 1) permitted abortions, if a woman decides to give birth, she gives birth, if she does not want to give birth, she makes an abortion. 2) with prohibited abortions, if a woman decides to give birth, she gives birth, if she does not decide to give birth, she makes fetal expulsion on her own or in secret.
                        It is impossible to do legally what is not permitted by law. So what are the claims to the written?
                        "Now"?! We are talking about "then"

                        your talent is not to focus on the main point. And the main one in this phrase:
                        Demographers have long been aware that there is no direct relationship between fertility and the prevalence of abortion.

                        Soviet ugly abortion culture

                        What do you think abortion culture? Some very specific definition. And what is ugly about this:
                        I. It is allowed to perform a free operation on artificial termination of pregnancy in the setting of Soviet hospitals, where its maximum harmlessness is ensured.
                        II. It is absolutely forbidden to perform this operation to anyone except a doctor.
                        III. The midwife or grandmother, guilty of this operation, is deprived of the right to practice and is brought before the People's Court.
                        IV. A doctor who has carried out a fruiting operation in private practice for selfish purposes is also brought to trial.

                        Give a comparison with "abortion culture" in another country. Is there something fundamentally different written there? I understand one could call ugly if abortions were done WITHOUT the consent of a woman. A woman independently and voluntarily decided - she wants to do, does not want, no one forces. So what's wrong?
                        B. Urlanis had every reason to believe

                        And until the 19th century and MKT, all physicists of the world had reason to believe that heat transfer was "an influx or outflow of a" calorific
                        Those. with the “damned” tsarism, people WANTED to give birth to children, and with the “people's power, there is NO

                        People just WANTED.
                        In the fragrant Niger and Chad, as well as in the fragrant Empire, people want to give birth to children, and in the whole modern cursed developed world, like in the cursed Union, they do not want to.
                        The explanation is elementary. The spread of contraception. Basic instincts are nowhere to be found. And children are a “by-product” of this HUNTING. Because there is no culture of contraception in ordinary people, which are the majority. Noble ladies could perfectly protect themselves and protect themselves, didn’t you think why childbirth for life among urban ladies of the “higher” world is much less than that of peasant women? By the way, in one of the methods for indirectly determining the number of abortions, it was used for calculations. So where did you get the idea that people wanted children? Here from this:

                        I meet the inhabitants of the hut.
                        “My daughter was a widow with three children,” the old woman says, “now she serves as a cook in Baku.” She took two with her, and left us the third ... Yes, the old man did not love her, she whispers to me, everyone says: they left her to her mother, an extra mouth ...


                        or from this

                        Levitskaya began to ask the girl from her parents. Father sternly declared: ''
                        - She will die soon. What is in it? Feed your son — he will be a worker.


                        or from this

                        “The appearance of a new mouth is the real burden and burden of the family.“ You know how to make money, but you don’t feed you, ”the family often reproaches a woman giving birth.“ There’s nothing to eat on our own, and she’s breeding like a cat, ”they condemn such a woman."

                        This is written by the doctor of medicine Popov in 1903. He writes this by the way in a study on traditional medicine, in the same chapter where he describes the means used for fruitful expulsion.
                        In the dissertation of the doctor of medicine Selyugin in 1906, practices of fruit expulsion are mentioned in the context of the causes of the increased mortality rate of children who fall into statistics as stillborn.
                        And this is in the dissertation of Dr. Bezgin on the causes of infanticide
                        "Material difficulties, the inability to support a child were the motive in 40% of cases. The desire to hide the pregnancy from parents or close relatives was typical for 28%. And only 2% of all infanticides were due to the feeling of shame for having a child out of wedlock."
                      17. Olgovich 23 November 2019 12: 15 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        I brought a declaration with the CSU

                        and at the same time they gave her away
                        T.N. tips

                        Himself is not funny?
                        a declaration was born - at the CSU, appeared - at the SS

                        well yes well yes and her
                        WORKERS wrote

                        everything right in your place converges. You did pretend to be a fool with a “birth-appearance”, but Mr. Borisov will not be able to “reincarnate” as a worker

                        1. fool gave out for the declaration of workers to the Congress of Soviets. It didn’t even reach 5 times, which is himself Congress of the so-called no one could write advice .... appeal to yourself? But from St. Petersburg they wrote: read the DECLARATION, finally: "We, workers, are addressing the congress"
                        2. You do not need to pretend. hi
                        Quote: A vile skeptic

                        take it here in the appendage or 20 or 23, otherwise you still will not reach "more than 2" for all reasons.

                        hunger 21-22 yyywhen millions of women and children died, which NOBODY even counted, burying hundreds in holes and ravines. Or give the burial protocols with the names, surnames, places of the accountant?
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Yes, because with 1) permitted abortions, if a woman decides to give birth, she gives birth, if she does not want to give birth, she makes an abortion. 2) with prohibited abortions, if a woman decides to give birth, she gives birth, if she does not decide to give birth, she makes fetal expulsion on her own or in secret.
                        It is impossible to do legally what is not permitted by law. So what are the claims to the written?

                        belay
                        you wrote for the first time about fruitful exile, and in the second about increase exile.
                        Do not remember yourself?
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        "Now"?! We are talking about "then"

                        your talent is not to focus on the main point. And the main one in this phrase:
                        Demographers have long been aware that there is no direct relationship between fertility and the prevalence of abortion.

                        If you don’t see the ROOT difference between "then and now there’s nothing to talk about
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        What do you think abortion culture? Some very specific definition. And what is ugly

                        In 1924, for 100 births, 24 abortions in Moscow, in 1934, 272: 10 times the growth
                        ! By the way, in your opinion, women have become ten times “more ignorant” than in 1920. Or do you already have the achievements of medical science in enlightenment? lol

                        This ugliness is the destruction of the moral and moral foundations of society, the family, which resulted in the destruction of children (more than in the whole world).

                        The ugliness is that for women the norm was NOT to give birth, but to kill
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Give a comparison with “abortion culture” in another country.

                        In the US, the Criminal Code, France allowed abortion 50 years after the animals!
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        People just WANTED.
                        In the fragrant Niger and Chad, as well as in the fragrant Empire, people want to give birth to children, and in the whole modern cursed developed world, like in the cursed Union, they do not want to.
                        .

                        Sclerosis again? Let me remind you:
                        Birth rate is determined by intentions people, not means

                        WANTED and gave birth.

                        with your-like and- killed: abortion, but, for example, in 1937, a quarter of the killings is already killing childrenknitting, in the restroom, rope, in a landfill.
                        Oh, Women are becoming more "enlightened" with you, yes. fool
                        And abortions "completely disappeared", everything was as "conceived", yeah!

                        The number of abortions is absolutely wild, halved the country from 1950-1990.

                        PS Tired already: you repeat ..

                        Summary: You are right in saying that, speaking of an increase over the years, the speakers were, yes, inconspicuous, illiterate, blind uh, idiots.

                        For sim ... hi
  • Foul skeptic 19 November 2019 10: 52 New
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    AND THE FOURTH TIME I will not deny myself the pleasure of hearing your silence in response to simple questions

    But nothing that I have already answered you? All reports on the quality of statistical records, all excerpts from books with direct words that gave incorrect data, said that the leadership knew about nutrition problems, about hunger, but no one could calculate its magnitude. And it will never count. What do you think it was all about?
  • Olgovich 19 November 2019 12: 53 New
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    Quote: A vile skeptic
    But nothing that I have already answered you? All reports on the quality of statistical records, all excerpts from books with direct words that gave incorrect data, said that the leadership knew about nutrition problems, about hunger, but no one could calculate its magnitude. And it will never count. What do you think it was all about?

    Not about that, of course.

    Answer directly to the post questions:
    leadership that:
    1 knew nothing
    2. did not see
    3. did not understand for MANY years what was happening with demography ?.
    4. And sincerely spoke about ... wealthy peasants in terrible February 33 g?
    5. In what parallel reality did they live then?
  • Foul skeptic 19 November 2019 14: 00 New
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    Again twisted questions to which you can’t just give an answer, yes, I knew, no, I didn’t.
    This is like Carlson’s question Freken Bock - Have you quit drinking brandy in the morning?
  • Olgovich 20 November 2019 10: 35 New
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    Quote: A vile skeptic
    Again twisted questions to which you can’t just give an answer, yes, I knew, no, I didn’t.

    From what? You are welcome:

    1. Know (reports MILLION)
    2. Seen (and registry offices died out))
    3. Understood: already in 1926 they started to have abortions, introduced a fee, then 29 grams were stricter and up to the ban 36 grams
    4. "wealthy" peasants in the fierce February of 33 g, with THOUSANDS of cries from the scene of the disaster, it is something beyond human.
    5. See 1-4

    Do you understand this? Of course, yes. Here admit, even to himself, not in power. Well, okay
  • tesser 13 November 2019 15: 17 New
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    Quote: A vile skeptic
    Count according to this principle, how do you think the population decline in the United States between 30 and 40 years

    + 9 million
    1930 - 123 202 624,
    1940 - 132 164 569,
    1. Foul skeptic 13 November 2019 15: 35 New
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      You didn’t understand what was going on or did you pretend you didn’t understand?
      1. tesser 13 November 2019 15: 47 New
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        132-123 = + 9
        162-168 = -6.

        Here for these -6 and tell.
        1. Foul skeptic 13 November 2019 16: 05 New
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          And what is 168? The result of the census?
          1. tesser 13 November 2019 16: 22 New
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            Want censuses? 1937 162 million, 1926 147 million +15 million. States 1920 106 million, 1940 132 million +26 million from a 1,5 times lower base. Comments will be?
            1. Foul skeptic 13 November 2019 17: 25 New
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              Want censuses?

              It is very clearly written what I want - to find out what 168 is.
              1920 1940

              Do you like to juggle with numbers?
              counting for 11 years or for 20 years, no difference
              from 1,5 times lower base

              and what, here in such similarities of the calculation "168 + 3 * 3" you see its accounting?
              And why didn’t you want to level the influence of the “base” and didn’t take the year with a higher population as a base ... uh ... for example 1930? Because we are manipulating, juggling?
              Comments will be?

              When you answer what you were asked (more precisely, Olgovich, but you decided to wedge "shine"), then I will comment on this. And to comment on juggling - I'm not in the circus.
              1. tesser 13 November 2019 18: 02 New
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                Quote: A vile skeptic
                counting for 11 years or for 20 years, no difference

                Well, I do not conduct American zhezh censuses. Do you want to take the States 40-30 + 9 million and say that compared with the Soviet 15 all the norms are more or less?
                1. Foul skeptic 13 November 2019 18: 17 New
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                  No, I won’t say such nonsense.
                  Using the example of the United States censuses, I simply showed that it is impossible to so primitively consider the issues of the dynamics of biological populations (especially a person where, in addition to biology, the social component is connected), as they are considered here. And not only here. Otherwise, 132 million in 1940, and not 140-141 million (even with a linear, rather than exponential dependence) in the United States, then super mortality must also be explained.
                  1. tesser 13 November 2019 18: 30 New
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                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    especially a person where, in addition to biology, the social component is connected)

                    In this you are right, the story of counting millions on the fingers is a direct road to the well-known billion killed by Stalin.
  • chenia 13 November 2019 11: 39 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    They did NOT know: about the millions who died within 9 months of starvation, about 630 executions for 000 year 1 * 37gg, about hundreds of thousands of exiled children, about the price of wars, etc.


    Shaw again Moldovan wine in the morning. You are done with this.

    Is there really not enough mind to attach a ruler to the population growth schedule and see (for example, in 1960, when there were certainly no repressions) there should be no more 280 Million
    It was 209 million demographic losses 70 млн. person.

    40 млн. (1960) losses from the Second World War
    30 млн. civil, hunger, repression.

    Moreover, this is a demographic loss, where 22-24 million. not born, in view of the deterioration of life and loss from loss. And if you add emigration, a pandemic (Spanish), etc. then the loss of specific people 37-40 million for all the years of Soviet power.

    For 30 years, the countries of the former USSR lost their liberalism -70-75 million people.

    Point.
    1. tesser 13 November 2019 15: 20 New
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      Quote: chenia
      For 30 years of liberalism, the countries of the former USSR lost -70-75 million people.

      And where does this beautiful figure come from?
      1. chenia 13 November 2019 16: 13 New
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        Quote: tesser
        And where does this beautiful figure come from?


        The population growth of the USSR over the past three decades has averaged 22-24 million people / 10 years. (60-70- generally -32 million)
        Total for 30 years, the increase should be up to 75 million. In 1989 - 293 million. THOSE. IN 2019 SHOULD BE
        365-370 million. And what is in the post-Soviet countries?

        Cont