Military Review

US will begin construction of SSBN "Columbia" no earlier than the end of 2020 year

150
The full-fledged construction of new-generation ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs) of the Columbia type will begin no earlier than the end of the 2020 year. This was stated by the chairman and CEO of General Dynamics, Phoebe Novakovich, the portal said navyrecognition.com.


US will begin construction of SSBN "Columbia" no earlier than the end of 2020 year


According to Novakovich, the company expects to begin construction of a new generation SSBN of the Columbia type for the US Navy by the end of the 2020 year, but not earlier. The steel cutting ceremony in May of this year for the first submarine of the new series is symbolic, marking the beginning of preliminary construction for the entire Columbia-class submarine program.

The U.S. Navy is planning to acquire 12 next-generation strategic submarines, which should replace Ohio-type submarines. It is expected that the first Ohio-class submarine will reach the end of its service life in the 2027 year, by which time the first of the Columbia should be operational, and with the 2031 of the year already on alert.

In service with the US Navy today stands 18 strategic nuclear submarines of the Ohio type. 14 of them play the role of SSBNs and are part of the US strategic nuclear triad. 18,5 underwater displacement of thousands of tons. The length of the submarine is 170 meters with a diameter of 13 meters. Each ship is capable of carrying 24 Trident ballistic missiles. In addition, the submarines are equipped with four torpedo tubes of the caliber 533 millimeter.

The details of the Columbia project are classified, it is known that in terms of displacement and length with diameter they are almost identical to Ohio-type submarines. It is planned that each new submarine will be armed with 16 ballistic missiles Trident II D5. The service life is planned in 42 of the year, while recharging the reactor is not required.

The submarine of the new generation will receive X-shaped stern rudders, as well as horizontal depth rudders installed on the wheelhouse. Instead of a screw on the submarine install water jet. The new ship will receive a fully electric propulsion system with permanent magnets. This installation will be powered by nuclear power plant turbogenerators. This design will make the ship quieter compared to submarines such as "Ohio".

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  1. Basarev
    Basarev 10 November 2019 08: 10
    0
    Americans, with their technological dominance, can afford a respite. But we have to act swiftly.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 10 November 2019 08: 17
      +7
      Quote: Basarev
      technological dominance

      Straight, straight, everything and the best of all?
      The country is powerful, rich, but there is no absolute leader always and in everything.
      The world has changed and will continue to change!
      PS ..... the fact that we will have to "rustle" at increased speed is obvious.
      1. Nikolay Ivanov_5
        Nikolay Ivanov_5 10 November 2019 08: 46
        +5
        our goal is not superiority and victory, but the inevitability of retaliation
        1. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara 10 November 2019 10: 28
          -2
          Quote: Nikolai Ivanov_5
          our goal is not superiority and victory, but the inevitability of retaliation

          Is this because Putin said so or because we are no longer able to afford the victory?
          1. hrych
            hrych 10 November 2019 10: 48
            +2
            Quote: Vol4ara
            This is because Putin said so.

            Because he did not say, but did, he ensured a breakthrough in strategic nuclear forces and tactical nuclear weapons. Provided Victory in Crimean, Caucasian and Syrian companies.
            1. Chit
              Chit 10 November 2019 11: 10
              -15
              About the Caucasian ...
              It is impossible to clarify what is meant by victory?
              You know, I closely followed the events that took place during the First and Second Chechen wars. And the term "victory" as applied to these events is somewhat inappropriate.
              Don't you think so?
              1. hrych
                hrych 10 November 2019 13: 56
                -1
                Quote: Chit
                during the First and Second Chechen War

                The extreme Caucasian war took place in several stages, when they tried to push us away from the Greater Caucasian ridge, through separatists and mercenaries. This group and their leaders, including international ones, were destroyed here. The second stage was the battle for control of the Greater Caucasus Range itself. Here the enemy was the Georgian group, well prepared by the West. It was swept out. We were left with the control of the Big Ridge and the hole in it - the Rogsky Tunnel; a bridgehead was also captured in Transcaucasia with the most important Abkhazian coast and South Ossetia, which is the beginning of the Lesser Caucasian Range, which dissects the Transcaucasia, as well as Georgia and the Turkic world. The Lesser Caucasus controls Armenia with our bases and absolutely protects our Caspian from NATO influence. Also, cut a corridor from South Ossetia to Armenia in no time, all of this rises, dominates the Georgian valleys ... In a strategic sense, this is SUPER. The Greater Caucasus Range, like the Small, are natural, impregnable fortresses with walls in kilometers. It is important whose fighters are on these walls and whose radars are. And they are ours. Also because of the broken geography of Crimea, the coast of the Krasnodar Territory and Abkhazia. Russia owns half of the Black Sea coast and dominates this basin. Losses from the collapse of the USSR were almost completely neutralized by controlling the most important "nerve" points.
                1. Good_Anonymous
                  Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 14: 21
                  +6
                  Quote: hrych
                  Losses from the collapse of the USSR, almost completely leveled


                  Apothegia smile
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 10 November 2019 16: 32
                    +1
                    Polyakov often began to recall something smile
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 November 2019 11: 16
              +5
              Oh, Putin has already broken into the strategic nuclear forces and tactical nuclear forces .... And when will he be cured by hands? There is no god but GDP and a grub of his prophet ...
              1. hrych
                hrych 10 November 2019 14: 00
                -3
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Oh, Putin has already broken into the strategic nuclear forces and nuclear weapons ...

                And who built Boreas and Ash-trees, who gave funds for Poseidons, Daggers, Petrels, Vanguards, Sarmatians, Caliber. Such expenses for the development, production and adoption of weapons directly depend on the Supreme Commander. Therefore, I am not a prophet, unfortunately. This is a statement of fact.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 November 2019 14: 41
                  +9
                  Quote: hrych
                  And who built Boreas and Ash-trees

                  Nobody has built ash trees yet. So far we have one Severodvinsk, which was laid down long before Putin, in 1993. But for the fact that our nuclear-powered submarines have been turned into an epic unfinished construction - yes, thanks for that. Great Putin. For almost 20 years of rule - not a single multi-purpose nuclear submarine laid down under it was commissioned.
                  Boreas - yes. Only the construction of Boreyev is not a "breakthrough" but a replacement for the retiring SSBNs.
                  Quote: hrych
                  who gave funds to Poseidons, Daggers, Petrels, Vanguards, Sarmatians, Caliber.

                  It would be more accurate to say this - who shamelessly squandered money on the Poseidons? Who passed the air-based Iskenders off for the latest hypersonic weapons? Where do we have at least one "Sarmat" on alert? What does the "Caliber" have to do with it, created in the last century? before Putin came to power?
                  In general, a breakthrough can be written only one Vanguard :)))
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 10 November 2019 15: 27
                    -5
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Thanks to Great Putin

                    Well, yes, of course, thanks to Gorbi and EBN for the submarines. wassat
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    not a single multi-purpose nuclear submarine laid down under him was commissioned

                    Kazan from Ashen, laid in 2009 at sea trials. Ahhh, then Medvedev was the President. Exactly, he is the savior of the Russian Navy wassat Two more Ash-trees are already on the way, three more are under construction. Few?
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Only the construction of Boreyev is not a "breakthrough" but a replacement

                    Here it’s like a pro, and do not vytyuhivayut that Borey - the fastest SSBN. Thanks to the racer - Shchuk-B from whose body he was born. Essentially, Borey is a cut Pike-B with an inserted ICBM launcher bay. Yes and not in essence. The first three stupidly used the compartments of Lynx, Barca and Cougar. And the compactness of the Mace made it possible to avoid the humps, like those of Dolphin and Squid. Yes, Boreas lost a few knots in speed, but not many. Therefore, the enemy's multi-purpose vehicles are a little faster, but this is not enough to intercept. Therefore, this is not a quantitative substitution, but a qualitative transition to a new level.
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    "Calibers" created in the last century, i.e. before Putin came to power?

                    The caliber is not a rocket, but a complex. And in particular, its effectiveness is due to its interfacing with GLONASS and other global systems deployed by the Supreme. Iskander, of course, has something in common with the Dagger, but who said that we do not have the right to do this, make an aircraft modification wassat Duc and Iskander was adopted not with your beloved Gorbi and EBN. Everything has its time and Sarmat will replace the Voivode, but for now, the mobile and not only Yars with the RGCh are on guard, which is also a breakthrough, because the Americans and the monoblock mobile failed. That the Bulava, which fit into the Shchuki-B case, that the mobile Yars with the RGCh are the technological breakthrough that made it possible to make the SSBN racer and place a missile destroying several megacities on another continent on a mobile wheeled installation. Or isn’t it? Or is it not a breakthrough, but pampering?
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 November 2019 17: 32
                      +4
                      Quote: hrych
                      Well, yes, of course, thanks to Gorbi and EBN for the submarines.

                      In general, yes, thanks. Gorbachev did not rule that much, from 1985 to 1991 or 6 years. During this time, 5 SSBNs were laid down (3 Dolphins and 2 Akuly), of the multipurpose - 12 nuclear submarines of the Shchuka-B type, 5 of the Shchuka type, 2 Kondor and 9 nuclear submarines of the Antey type. , under Gorbachev, 5RPKSN, 7 Shchuk-B, 4 Shchuks, 1 Condor and 4 Antaeus of the above (and not counting those laid down before Gorbachev) were commissioned
                      Yeltsin, as you know, taxied from 1991 to 1999, that is, a little more so - for as many as 10 years. Over the years of the general collapse and decline of the Russian Federation, the (wild 90-e!) 1 SSBNs of the Borey type, multi-purpose submarines: 1 of the Ash-tree, 5 Shchuk-B and 2 Antei were laid down. Of these (not counting the ships laid down, but not completed before, under Gorbachev), only 2 Shchuki-B were completed, and one of them was leased to the Indians. Of course, other nuclear submarines laid down under Gorbachev were also in operation, but for the sake of the purity of the experiment, we do not consider them.
                      Well here is Putin. Getting up from your knees, blah blah blah and all that. We even got to the point that under Putin, industrialization is comparable to Stalin. What is the result?
                      For 19 years, the 7 SSBNs and 6 Yasenei were laid, and the 2 SSBNs (not including boats laid under Yeltsin) were put into operation. EVERYTHING!
                      That is, under Putin, the pace of commissioning nuclear submarines is half that of Yeltsin. Already broke through, so broke through wassat
                      Quote: hrych
                      Kazan from Ashen, laid in 2009 year on sea trials.

                      And I'm talking about boats in the Navy. Kazan is only to be
                      Quote: hrych
                      Two more Ash-trees are already on the way, three more are under construction. Few?

                      Minuscule and disgrace yes
                      Quote: hrych
                      Here it’s like a pro, and do not vytyuhivayut that Borey - the fastest SSBN. Thanks to the racer - Shchuk-B from whose body he was born.

                      So, for reference. Firstly, Borey has a quite moderate speed, and secondly, speed is an indicator of third importance for the SSBN.
                      Quote: hrych
                      Therefore, enemy multi-purpose vehicles are a little faster, but this is not enough to intercept

                      Enemy multipurpose vehicles can turn out to be much faster than Borea, since their underwater low-noise speed approaches 20 ties, and Pike-B, from which the Boreya case is supposedly made, is 5-7 ties. Feel the difference. However, I have great hopes that the Boreev's silent move is higher than that of Pike, however, this kills your idea of ​​inherited speed in the bud laughing
                      Quote: hrych
                      The caliber is not a rocket, but a complex. And in particular, its effectiveness is due to its interfacing with GLONASS and other global systems deployed by the Supreme.

                      I won't even ask what the "Supreme" was doing in 1982, when the first GLONASS satellite was launched
                      Quote: hrych
                      Iskander, of course, has something in common with the Dagger, but who said that we do not have the right to do this, make an aircraft modification

                      We have. But why call it a "breakthrough in strategic nuclear forces and tactical nuclear weapons", as someone Khrych does? :)))
                      Quote: hrych
                      That the Mace, which fit into the Shchuki-B case, that the mobile YarS with the RGCh is the essence of a technological breakthrough,

                      This is not a breakthrough at all, since so far our solid-fuel ones are seriously inferior to American missiles. The main thing is that they have been developed since 1975, despite the fact that Topol-M, the modernization of which is Yars, was put into service in 2000 - that is, to credit this to Putin ... a little strange
                      1. hrych
                        hrych 10 November 2019 18: 39
                        -3
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Enemy multipurpose vehicles can turn out to be much faster than Borea, since their underwater low-noise speed approaches 20 knots, and Shchuki-B, from which the Borey corps supposedly made, is 5-7 knots.

                        Where does this utter nonsense come from? This is how it should be done with "roaring cows" wassat Firstly, in Pike, that in Borey, the steering wheels are retractable into the body. This is not so simple. And to reduce turbulence at speed. Okay, there is a giant Shark with double noise, but the rest of ours and their submarines are at least commensurate in terms of parameters. Well, do Russophobes have a different opinion laughing
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I won't even ask what the "Supreme" was doing in 1982, when the first GLONASS satellite was launched

                        Again, utter nonsense. What happened in 1982 was overgrown. And why haven't you been counting down since 1976? laughing The current GLONASS with that disastrous Soviet one does not even fit in the coordinate system, i.e. according to the system of geodetic parameters, not like that. Not a single satellite older than 2003 in the current system is working. And did the same Pomegranate have a satellite positioning system? No, it didn’t. Could he smash the hut in Idlib from a watchman in the Caspian? No, I could not. What problems?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        But why call it a "breakthrough in strategic nuclear forces and tactical nuclear weapons," as someone Khrych does ?:

                        Because Andryukha from Chelyabinsk did not vytyuh that it is possible to make a hypersonic complex from the developments of the mobile complex Iskander and the stratospheric interceptor. A breakthrough is a breakthrough, i.e., at least get ahead of competitors and do what was not before. Get ahead Yes. Was it in service with the communists and liberals? No, it was not. What problems? Combining a tactical missile with a stratospheric carrier is a major breakthrough. Prove the opposite, but you cannot.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        "Yars" was put into service in 2000

                        We’ll call you, at least, a disinfectant, but in fact ... Yars was put into service in 2009. The first launch was in 2007. Would you just shit? wassat Gorbachev rode your beloved Crimea, along with EBN, but he returned the GDP. Any questions? The army and navy are not for the army and navy, what are you trying to prove to me here, but in order to return Crimea, capture Abkhazia, etc. Andryukha from Chelyabinsk needs troughs for the trough wassat But Gerasimov, somehow figure it out without your brother. By the way, 11 Schuk-B did not disappear. 7 pieces in repair and modernization. What to do with them? Throw away? They occupy a place for the construction of new ones. And please cut yourself on the nose that the Russian Federation is not the USSR, the population of the Russian Federation is smaller, there are no stupid tasks to build the World Revolution, there is no need to confront every point of the world's oceans for the ungrateful cannibals and troglodytes. The main task of the fleet, besides retaliation, etc. This is the protection of our shelf, with support on the coast, where diesel engines and a mosquito fleet work perfectly, and with such perfect tools, and with naval aviation. Fershteen?
                      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 November 2019 19: 05
                        +4
                        Quote: hrych
                        Where does this utter nonsense come from?

                        This is not nonsense, it is a harsh reality, coupled with your dense ignorance. Let it be known to you that ALL ALL nuclear submarines of the 3 generation, to which Pike B belongs (and Elk, if this is easier for you) have a low-noise speed - 5-7 knots :)))
                        Quote: hrych
                        Again, utter nonsense. What was in 1982 the year was overgrown.

                        In-in, why do we need to remember that GLONASS in essence is the development of the Soviet era? :))) it is better to assign its GDP
                        Quote: hrych
                        And did the same Pomegranate have a satellite positioning system? No, it didn’t. Could he smash the hut in Idlib from a watchman in the Caspian? No, I could not.

                        Hrych, what are you doing like that for children? Then you write that GLONASS in the form in which it is needed to guide the Caliber arose only during Putin, and then you write that the Caliber (which appeared before Putin) is pointed at GLONASS ... You either remove the cross or the underpants put on the right word :)))
                        Quote: hrych
                        We will call you, at least, a disinfectant, but in fact ... Yars was adopted by the 2009 year.

                        Hryyych :)))))) That's it, the arguments ended, and a direct (and extremely cheap) lie began. Well, you don’t expect anything else from Putiners for a long time.
                        I did not write
                        Quote: hrych
                        "Yars" was put into service in 2000

                        I wrote
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        "Topol-M", the modernization of which is "Yars" was adopted in 2000

                        Feel the Difference, Whistleblower.
                        Quote: hrych
                        Because Andryukha from Chelyabinsk did not vtyuhal

                        "My dear Hrych! You forget that from the height of my origin there is no difference even between the king and you. Goodbye!" (from)
                      3. hrych
                        hrych 10 November 2019 19: 42
                        -5
                        Let's just say that all Soviet developments are based on Mendeleev’s discoveries and Tsiolkovsky’s calculations, and scientists didn’t fall off the Lunar Comintern, but graduated from tsarist educational institutions. Also, the Russian Federation did not appear by itself, and we must ignore most of the Union, some kind of achievement of the Russian scientific school from imperial times. And that evolution continued, the merit of the Guarantor is beyond doubt. Therefore, Yars was created precisely under him, like it or not. The mace was created with him, like it or not. For Topol did not notice, I'm sorry. I remove the accusation of misinformation, but I leave incompetence wassat It was not me who pounced on you, but you on my phrase about the breakthrough. Although this is not a matter of dispute, for Yars with MIRV is a breakthrough relative to the monoblock Topol-M. Not its modification, but the next, quality level. If you don’t get it, I don’t know. Okay, I'll explain. The Poplar Monoblock hits one target. For example one city. And Yars is from 3 to 6 cities. Those. the efficiency of one Yars mobile complex is several times higher than that of Topol. Multiple. This is quantitative and qualitative (one rocket) superiority. What is boldly called "breakthrough". It's elementary. And that he is destined to be under Putin, excuse me, I'm not to blame.
                      4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 November 2019 16: 50
                        +1
                        Quote: hrych
                        Also, the Russian Federation did not appear by itself, and we must ignore most of the Union, some kind of achievement of the Russian scientific school from imperial times.

                        And who said they should ignore? It is only about the fact that Putin does not need to ascribe what he did not do.
                        Quote: hrych
                        And that evolution continued, the merit of the Guarantor is beyond doubt. Therefore, Yars was created precisely under him, like it or not. The mace was created with him, like it or not.

                        Created, but all of them are just modifications of the missiles in service. And the mace began to be created in 1997 again not under Putin :))))
                        And all this in no way attracts a breakthrough.
                        Quote: hrych
                        Although this is not the subject of controversy, for Yars with an RCM is a breakthrough with respect to the one-piece Poplar-M. Not its modification, but the next, quality level. If you don’t get it, then I don’t know.

                        And you ask, I will tell you :)))) The fact is that RGCH with IN is a very old technology and there is only one problem in installing it on solid fuel rockets - you need to create a sufficiently powerful rocket whose cast weight would allow it to be done . RGCH IN is heavier than a monoblock, because there is a device for breeding RGCH and in general, a bunch of small ones are heavier than one large one.
                        So, for a long time, Poplar simply could not abandon the warhead with the RGCh. Not pulled. And it was possible to create a sufficiently powerful missile only in the Topol-M variation, when they succeeded in hoisting a megaton-class warhead on it. This happened exactly in 2000, that is, they created Topol-M in pre-Putin times.
                        And then, when a carrier of sufficient power finally appeared, to install an RFG IN on it was a matter of technology. Putin’s merit here is that he didn’t forbid :))))))
                        So this is also not Putin's breakthrough, alas :))))
                        Okay. So that it would not hurt you at all (even succumb to the bulk), I will tell you a weapon system that was completely created during the presidency of Vladimir Vladimirovich. He delved into it, he figured it out, he secured financing, and yes, the system turned out really breakthrough. This is PAK FA, or Su-57 if you like. The development program for the 5 generation fighter was launched in 2001.
                        So Putin has his own breakthroughs. But do not ascribe to him what he did not commit laughing
                      5. hrych
                        hrych 11 November 2019 18: 52
                        0
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        So Putin has his own breakthroughs. But do not ascribe to him what he did not commit

                        You remind me of figures who say sincerely that the people won the war not because of Stalin, but in spite of it. Putin is the head of state, he is the Supreme Commander and everything that has been done, completed, brought to the end, etc., is written to him as an asset. RGM is not a technical thing to deploy when in the USSR and the Russian Federation there were ICBMs with heavy RGMs. What were the ICBMs? P-36M (Satan), UR100UTTX (Stiletto), R-29R and R-39 for nuclear submarines, RT-23 UTTH (BZHRK). All these missiles have an abandoned weight of one and a half or more Topol-M. Therefore, the breeding platform required exceptional weight and created from scratch. Sineva and Liner, by the way, were made by Makeevka under Putin, and he did not allow the design bureau to disperse when he was Prime Minister, although the EBN has already signed a decree. Makevites are now sculpting Sarmat. This is what the Makeyevtsy people remember and with criticism, I would not advise them to come across laughing The breeding platform itself is the most complex and high-tech device, and it is also limited in weight. Nooo, the performance characteristics of Yars are classified, however, the alleged use of a new and unique solid, composite fuel with unique polymer materials of construction that can withstand these intense combustion, made it possible to increase the throw weight by one and a half times or more, in contrast to Topal-M, without reducing the range. The accelerating section of the trajectory has also decreased. Let's call it a breakthrough in technology, both a compact breeding platform and a more energy-intensive fuel with a body that can withstand this. By the way, Dagger and Vanguard, got innovative materials that can withstand extreme heat. Kohl for lousy graphene now give Nobel, what else do you need for the term "breakthrough"? Cold fusion, maybe a Viman levitator?
            3. Good_Anonymous
              Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 11: 43
              +3
              Quote: hrych
              provided a breakthrough in strategic nuclear forces and nuclear weapons. Ensured Victory in the Crimean, Caucasian and Syrian companies.


              What "breakthrough in strategic nuclear forces and tactical nuclear weapons" ensured the victory of the Crimean "campaign"?
              1. hrych
                hrych 10 November 2019 14: 03
                -1
                Quote: Good_Anonymous
                What "breakthrough in strategic nuclear forces and tactical nuclear weapons" ensured the victory of the Crimean "campaign"?

                Between the breakthrough and secured, there is a point. These are different proposals ... although it would be impossible to snatch the Crimea out of the US without SNF and TNW. The base of the NATO Navy was being built, and the breakdown of the lease agreement for the Sevostopol Base was prepared by Turchinov and other ghouls.
                1. Good_Anonymous
                  Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 14: 08
                  +1
                  Okay, but what kind of breakthrough in "strategic nuclear forces and tactical nuclear weapons" did Putin provide?
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 10 November 2019 14: 30
                    -4
                    Quote: Good_Anonymous
                    what a breakthrough in "strategic nuclear forces and tactical nuclear weapons" provided by Putin

                    Poseidon, Sarmatian, Dagger, Zircon, Petrel, Vanguard. These are promising, some are already in the army. From the strategic nuclear forces, the fastest of the planet’s SSBNs, and therefore the non-intercepted Borey with the Mace, as well as the mobile with the RPG and mine Yars, are currently defending their homeland. The tactical Iskander, the Bastion with Onyx, X-101/102, X-32, Gauges, the entire line, from deep missile bombs, missile torpedoes, anti-ship missiles and strategic ones, are already working. Or is it like the Supreme Commander has nothing to do with it?
                2. Good_Anonymous
                  Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 14: 33
                  +6
                  Quote: hrych
                  Quote: Good_Anonymous
                  what a breakthrough in "strategic nuclear forces and tactical nuclear weapons" provided by Putin

                  Poseidon, Sarmatian, Dagger, Zircon, Petrel, Vanguard.


                  Of all these terrible words, only one is in service. Great breakthrough.

                  Quote: hrych
                  From SNF - the fastest of the SSBN of the planet and therefore unintercepted Borey


                  Overtakes aircraft PLO, where there are torpedoes.

                  Quote: hrych
                  Gauges whole line


                  It's good that there is a Tomahawk, but call it a breakthrough ...
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 10 November 2019 15: 38
                    -6
                    Quote: Good_Anonymous
                    Overtakes aircraft PLO, where there are torpedoes.

                    If you want to joke, it’s not in YOU, but in the Comedy Club. The PLO plane does not fly in our territorial waters, does not fly at a great distance and does not see through the ice shell. The hunt for our SSBNs in the Arctic is the prerogative of only nuclear multipurpose ones, and here the speed is decisive, it’s our withdrawal means that cover our departure, these are our waters, our airspace. You note.
                    Quote: Good_Anonymous
                    It's good that there is a Tomahawk, but call it a breakthrough ...

                    Is there a Tomahawk in the RCC variant, but with the last supersonic stage? Is there a Tomogawk with steps - a torpedo and a depth bomb? Oh no. Is there an enemy guard, armed with Tomogavk? Is there a diesel engine armed with the Tomogavk? Ah no again. This is what a breakthrough is called when a universal tool is created that can accomplish what the enemy’s device does, but also does what the enemy does not know and cannot access.
                    1. Good_Anonymous
                      Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 16: 10
                      +3
                      Quote: hrych
                      If you want to joke, it’s not in YOU, but in the Comedy Club.


                      And the phrase "the fastest and therefore not intercepted" is seriously impossible to answer. Do you even understand that the higher the speed, the more noise, and it is pointless to compete in speed with torpedoes and ASW aircraft?

                      Quote: hrych
                      Is there a Tomahawk in the RCC variant, but with the last supersonic stage?


                      Anti-ship Tomahawk in ancient times did, in the 90s with arms removed for the lack of the enemy. Now there is already a new option, next year they will start doing upgrade kits.

                      Quote: hrych
                      Is there a Tomogawk with steps - a torpedo and a depth bomb? Oh no. Is there an enemy guard, armed with Tomogavk? Is there a diesel engine armed with the Tomogavk? Ah no again.


                      Which of these is a breakthrough? About dizelyuha is especially funny. No need to give out need for virtue.
                      1. hrych
                        hrych 10 November 2019 20: 53
                        -4
                        Quote: Good_Anonymous
                        is it pointless to compete in speed with torpedoes and airplanes?

                        Firstly, there is no enemy PLO aviation in our waters, there is only our PLO aviation. Well, naturally, aviation has nothing to do over ice. At full speed the submarine can by the way get away from a torpedo attack, because the torpedo has a limited range and speed is higher, but not by an order of magnitude, about 50 knots the speed of a torpedo. But ours can in response launch Waterfall or the corresponding Caliber, hit the adversary forward. One problem is when the ice above and the Waterfall do not work here. But there are false goals, there are anti-torpedoes, etc.
                        Quote: Good_Anonymous
                        About dizelyuha is especially funny.
                        Laughter for no reason? Arming DEPL with strategic weapons, which is the ZM-14 is a real breakthrough. For the first time, a diesel-electric submarine became a carrier of strategic weapons, just like the Caspian guard. This is the main feature when the ship of the near zone receives such striking power and becomes part of the nuclear triad. Also, the Caliber was disguised as a sea container, and now you can attack the adversary with anything. Of course, in the near future the Americans will repeat this, but as a monkey, but a breakthrough idea and practice materialized with us. I am surprised that this does not reach you. This is just so elementary. Read at least Western military analysts. They have a panic, and it’s you just puffing out your cheeks, but our Crimea wassat
                      2. Good_Anonymous
                        Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 21: 05
                        -1
                        Quote: hrych
                        Also, the Caliber was disguised as a sea container, and now you can attack the adversary with anything.


                        Either you took advertising cartoons too seriously, or everything else is different in your universe.

                        Quote: hrych
                        a breakthrough idea and practice materialized with us.


                        Yes, installing missiles on civilian ships is a real breakthrough. It's even cooler than cruise missiles on submarines.
                      3. hrych
                        hrych 10 November 2019 21: 12
                        -2
                        Quote: Good_Anonymous
                        promotional cartoons

                        There is money, you can even buy wassat
                        Quote: Good_Anonymous
                        installing rockets on civilian ships is a real breakthrough

                        Not installation on a ship, but such a breakthrough missile that does not require PU and radar like a cruiser. Enter the coordinates from the tablet, the GOS will find the target, and the PU is a stupidly cunning container. Here you have a breakthrough. In short, I say, as with Ruguli wassat Do not you understand?
                      4. Good_Anonymous
                        Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 21: 56
                        -1
                        Quote: hrych
                        such missiles are a breakthrough that do not require PU and radar like a cruiser


                        They require PU. The fact that this PU is placed in a container is such an achievement. A "radar like a cruiser" is not needed by any missile.

                        Quote: hrych
                        Enter the coordinates from the tablet, the target will find the GOS


                        And here is the breakthrough in what - in entering coordinates from the tablet? smile
                      5. hrych
                        hrych 10 November 2019 22: 41
                        -1
                        Quote: Good_Anonymous
                        And here is the breakthrough in what - in entering coordinates from the tablet?

                        Vasil, that you don’t understand at all? Including entering coordinates from the tablet. Enter the coordinates of the target and hello. And I remind you, this is a strategic missile with a range of more than 2 thousand kilometers. Wailing is not in individual capabilities, not in individual nodes, but in the aggregate of all the achievements of progress. Well, the versatility of calibers of all kinds. Fershteen? Well, if you want, I’ll tell you that it’s not a breakthrough ... I’ll say that it’s all invented before us. Feel better? But they didn’t do that to us.wassat There is such a concept - Innovator, i.e. one who brings new things to life and introduces progressive ideas, techniques and the like in any activity. Here we are Innovators with the deployment of a strategic Caliber in a mosquito fleet, innovators with sea containers, innovators with a supersonic stage on a subsonic anti-ship missile system. So arrange? So this is a breakthrough wassat For a breakthrough is not only in the device itself, but also in its innovative use. drinks
                      6. Good_Anonymous
                        Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 22: 43
                        -2
                        Quote: hrych

                        Quote: Good_Anonymous
                        And here is the breakthrough in what - in entering coordinates from the tablet?

                        Vasil, that you don’t understand at all? Including entering coordinates from the tablet.


                        Now I understand. Entering coordinates from the tablet is a breakthrough.
                      7. hrych
                        hrych 10 November 2019 23: 33
                        -1
                        Quote: Good_Anonymous
                        Now I understand. Entering coordinates from the tablet is a breakthrough.

                        Including with a container, placed on a mosquito fleet, a supersonic step and Vasiliy taped with adhesive tape, for wisdom wassat
                      8. Good_Anonymous
                        Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 23: 59
                        -3
                        You are still a teenager. Although from another universe.
                      9. hrych
                        hrych 11 November 2019 00: 11
                        -1
                        Quote: Good_Anonymous
                        You are still a teenager. Although from another universe.

                        Said everything? am
                      10. hrych
                        hrych 10 November 2019 21: 01
                        -4
                        Okay, I’ll tell you a terrible secret. The enemy’s nuclear submarines should be attached to the SSBN, which goes from the base to the patrol route. It’s ours under the guise of means of PLO naturally. And Borey gives full speed and also maneuvers. The enemy stupidly has no chance of catching a tail. Neither speed, nor range of sonars, nor stealth against our PLO is lacking. That's the whole parsley. By speed. This is a major advantage of all nuclear submarines. And it was not in vain that they made titanium racers and a goldfish on cooling the reactor with liquid metal. Not just like that, but for speed, Rybka had a torpedo speed under a fifty-fifty knots. Therefore, we took care of speed with Borey and forgot to consult with you wassat
                      11. Good_Anonymous
                        Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 21: 21
                        +4
                        Quote: hrych
                        It’s ours under the guise of means of PLO naturally.


                        And they, these mythical means of PLO, of course, drown all the opponents that they found.

                        Quote: hrych
                        And Borey gives full speed and also maneuvers. The enemy stupidly has no chance of catching a tail.


                        The enemy is deaf.

                        Quote: hrych
                        Not enough speed or sonar range


                        Try not to use words you don’t understand. Sonar is an active sonar, it produces a submarine with a head and immediately. And yet, yes, it is for relatively close distances. The main means of detecting submarines is passive locators.

                        Quote: hrych
                        It was not for nothing that they made titanium racers and a goldfish on cooling the reactor with liquid metal.


                        In this universe, on this planet, titanium racers and fish on liquid metal have long ceased to make. Because too expensive targets were obtained.
                      12. hrych
                        hrych 10 November 2019 21: 40
                        -4
                        I feel in you a submariner of the steppes of Ukraine wassat But enlightenment is a holy thing. First of all, surface ships, diesel-electric submarines, and aviation provide cover for the SSBN exit cover. Naturally, the perimeter is formed, sonar is working, and in the active mode, when the target is visible, even when the mechanisms are completely off. PLO ships have no need to hide and they echo. Depths are also taken into account so that the enemy does not lurk. A submarine providing a PLO can pick up the echo of an enemy boat not from its sonar, but which the PLO ship emits. And so on. In short, the system works and stop doubting here. And ours with the same success catch them SSBN, unless now we will slam them with Poseidon. wassat By the way, titanium is still in order. K-276 “Crab”, K-239 “Karp”, B-276 “Kostroma”, B-534 Catfish (“Nizhny Novgorod”), B-336 “Perch” (“Pskov”). Already 5 pieces of titanium nuclear submarines. Not sickly so. And the developments with liquid metal cooling are apparently implemented in Poseidon. Therefore, the works did not disappear.
                      13. Good_Anonymous
                        Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 21: 52
                        +1
                        Quote: hrych
                        I feel in you a submariner of the steppes of Ukraine


                        Is there also Ukraine in your universe?

                        Quote: hrych
                        PLO ships have no need to hide and they echo


                        Have you already forgotten what you carried in the previous message? I remember:

                        Quote: hrych
                        The enemy stupidly has no chance of catching a tail. Not enough speed or sonar range


                        That is, then you talked about the sonar of the enemy, now - about sonar PLO. Cheap distort.

                        Quote: hrych
                        A submarine providing a PLO can pick up the echo of an enemy boat not from its sonar, but which the PLO ship emits


                        I already realized that you are from another universe.

                        Quote: hrych
                        By the way, titanium is still in order. K-276 “Crab”, K-239 “Karp”, B-276 “Kostroma”, B-534 Catfish (“Nizhny Novgorod”), B-336 “Perch” (“Pskov”)


                        For the sake of curiosity, I looked at the B-336. It was commissioned 26 years ago. More than a quarter of a century. Laid back in the USSR. And with a maximum speed of 35 knots - is this called a "racer" in your universe? But yes, they are not being built anymore.
                      14. hrych
                        hrych 10 November 2019 23: 10
                        -1
                        In short, Vasily, you are in my parallel universe. 35 knots is an underwater racer. The data are encyclopedic, but no one will tell the real speed. The boat is not for sale. Maybe she is less wassat And 26 years is normal, especially after repair and modernization in 2015. Ohio is the freshest 23 years old, the oldest 41 years old. Average them over thirty five laughing So what? Do not intend to write off. Oh yes, they are no longer being built either. In general, they have ICBMs at 70% SSBNs at 30% of the mine, while we have 30% SSBNs and 70% onshore, including mobile ones. We are a continental power and the number of our nuclear submarines, I would say, is very excessive. 5 titanium, 7 Anteev, 6 Dolphins, 3 Borea, plus 2 at the nearest approach, 3 more under construction, 11 Shchuk-B, 1 Shark, 1 Ash, 2 more will arrive in 2020, and 4 more will be built, 4 nuclear submarines under Poseidon, Losharik damaged, but corrected. It seems that I forgot the type of Sarov ... And a bunch of diesels. Like that
                      15. 2 Level Advisor
                        2 Level Advisor 12 November 2019 17: 44
                        -1
                        Hrych, just take an interest in how many of the submarines indicated in the table are in service, right at the pier or at sea .. you see, it’s also possible for Americans to include planes in the desert in storage in the Air Force .. And then, reading your discussion, it develops the impression that truth is not important to you, but the last word hi
                      16. hrych
                        hrych 12 November 2019 18: 10
                        +1
                        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                        Hrych, just ask how many of the submarines indicated in the table are in service

                        What should I be interested in if a bunch of Shchuk-B (half for sure) and Anteyev were driven out through overhaul and modernization and continue. While you were writing here, our submarines were tidying up, installing new equipment and new strike complexes. And it is right. In addition to new and wonderful Soviet can not be thrown ahead of time. The storage that you compared with a deserted American vault still has a bunch of boats, according to which fate is decided and they are not taken into account here, at least two giant Sharks. And there are not enough slipways, new ones are being built, old ones are being modernized. Yes, I would like faster, but there is nothing to rush. We have something to restrain the enemy from, even if there weren’t just one nuclear submarine at all. We have the main silo-based ICBMs like that. The last word? We have the only fourth-generation SSBNs like that. No one has. What else do you need? Four nuclear submarines are being redesigned for carriers of small submarines and Poseidon. Who has this? No one. Poseidon is generally something. This is a revolution, and you are all in the dreadnought. Everything, their time has passed, like galleys and sailboats. The time has come for global underwater drones and we are innovators here. Leaders !!! So much is invested in this, barely surviving after the shock of the country. No, everything is not enough for you ...
                      17. Tiksi-3
                        Tiksi-3 16 November 2019 12: 14
                        -2
                        Quote: hrych
                        By the way, titanium is still in order. K-276 “Crab”, K-239 “Karp”, B-276 “Kostroma”, B-534 Catfish (“Nizhny Novgorod”), B-336 “Perch” (“Pskov”). Already 5 pieces of titanium nuclear submarines.

                        are you really crazy or troll? .... facts and only facts and not wikipedia !! in the ranks of 5 titanium boats)) fool belay do not disgrace grunt .... ashamed to stupid in obvious matters we have 2 titanium walks .... those that really go !! AND PERFORM THE TASKS !!
                      18. Tiksi-3
                        Tiksi-3 16 November 2019 12: 12
                        -1
                        Quote: hrych
                        It’s ours under the guise of means of PLO naturally.

                        laughing fool belay ..... Yes, do you ever ever learn materiel? .....
                    2. Tiksi-3
                      Tiksi-3 16 November 2019 12: 11
                      -1
                      Quote: hrych
                      the hunt for our SSBNs in the Arctic is the prerogative of only nuclear multipurpose

                      Quote: hrych
                      the fastest of the planet’s SSBN and therefore unintercepted Borea with a mace

                      dear, are you a kremlebot? .... or a s \ n .... it is surprising that everyone in VO thinks of sheep who do not understand anything and do not serve in the RA. You just have to be ashamed of the heresy that you wrote .... although stop .... you are from the TARKVEMADA sect)) .... I’m sorry, I forgot, you have a goal for the star epaulets to not allow ANYONE but yours, the fact that you fight with trolls ..... yes you are those trolls who have materiel below the waterline !! ... good luck to blame everyone !!
                      1. hrych
                        hrych 17 November 2019 02: 04
                        +1
                        Quote: Tiksi-3
                        do not understand and do not serve in RA

                        Tell me then in the Navy, since such a very smart wassat We have 5 titanium submarines, whether you like it or not. And they are fine. The fact that modernization is wonderful. Any modernization is very good. Well, they did not consult with you how to deal with them and to whom. And they are walking now or not walking, no difference at all. Sleep calmly and don’t freak out, Satan keeps you (rocket) wassat Also you are not aware that Losharik is titanium. Yes, it’s damaged. But it’s still here. Correct. Therefore, there are five of them with Losharik. Spread fingers and count. Nizhny, Pskov, Kostroma, Karp and Losharik.
                        Quote: Tiksi-3
                        dear, are you kremlebot?

                        Consider, as you want, I am neither hot nor cold. And the Kremlin suits me, as long as there is no famine and unrest in the country, Crimea returns, Donbass holds on and Syria is captured. Well and so, on trifles, for example 3 Borea put into operation. The only 4-generation SSBNs in the world and the fastest SSBNs, with a multi-purpose speed ... Does this not please you?
                        Quote: Tiksi-3
                        to STAR epaulets

                        Is that so important to you? I did not have time to read it, minusanul. I'm sorry.
                      2. Tiksi-3
                        Tiksi-3 19 November 2019 14: 46
                        0
                        Quote: hrych
                        Spread fingers and count. Nizhny, Pskov, Kostroma, Karp and Losharik

                        I asked for neither Wikipedia, but reality !!! walking two !! Losharik laughing is now under repair and for a long time + it doesn’t affect the power of our Navy !! + no one modernizes our titanium and this is a fact !!
                        Quote: hrych
                        And the Kremlin suits me
                        you are one of those who stuck to the budget !! love Congratulations to us, most others !!
                        Quote: hrych
                        The only 4-generation SSBNs in the world and the fastest SSBNs, with a multi-purpose speed ... Does this not please you?


                        it pleases and very much, only it is necessary to finish the mace, and this does not mean that it (bore) is not vulnerable !!! The problem is that the Boreas will not even have time to get into the database areas, the American creatures will demolish them and that’s the point !!!
                        Quote: hrych
                        Is that so important to you? I did not have time to read it, minusanul. I'm sorry.

                        yes minus the health, you only need sectarians answers to posts that would be minus!
                      3. hrych
                        hrych 19 November 2019 23: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Tiksi-3
                        The problem is that the Boreas will not even have time to get into the database areas, the American creatures will demolish them and that’s the point !!!

                        What kind of pessimism? The old ones were not demolished, but here they will tear it down. One titanium has undergone modernization. The second set, the contract is signed. Boreas will walk under the ice. By tradition, we have a two-hull scheme, breaking ice. Unfortunately for the West, they have a long feud with ice. Well, as it were, we still have PLO. On the other hand, our triad puts mines and mobile ICBMs on mines, and the SSBN is like a bonus. There is, okay, I wouldn’t give a damn either. In armament ... if with torpedoes, plus or minus parity, then ours has an advantage with missile torpedoes (depth charges) Caliber (Wind and Waterfall). Of course without ice. When the Wind leaves the water and flies to the adversary with supersonic sound up to 100 km, and the Waterfall (Caliber) up to 50 km and again dives with a deep and nuclear bomb, or a torpedo. In short, the arms were longer. Even if they first manage to attack, but the first will be destroyed. And we have anti-torpedoes on Borea, with 324 mm TA package type. But they can’t fight off the Waterfall.
                        Quote: Tiksi-3
                        you only need sectarians answers to posts that would be minus!

                        Does that mean something? It affects the defense of the country or so, stupidly amuse pride. laughing
                      4. Tiksi-3
                        Tiksi-3 25 November 2019 11: 58
                        0
                        Quote: hrych
                        One titanium has been upgraded

                        not a single one passed!
                        Quote: hrych
                        The old ones have not been demolished, but here they will demolish

                        have we fought with the shtatovtsy? belay
                        Quote: hrych
                        Unfortunately for the West, they have a long feud with ice.

                        with them? belay ... yes, they conduct exercises 2 times a year with torpedo shooting precisely under a layer of ice !, and the last time we ?? ?? have already forgotten these old times!
                        Quote: hrych
                        Does that mean something?

                        Of course, because you do not need a discussion debate, but the number of comments for enhanced minus
                      5. Sandor Clegane
                        Sandor Clegane 25 November 2019 17: 37
                        +2
                        Quote: hrych
                        Lower, Pskov, Kostroma, Carp

                        Earlier it was also reported that the atomic ships of project 945 Barracuda and 945A Condor should go through modernization. However, in the message received by Admiral Chirkov, these boats are not indicated among those planned for modernization until 2020.
                        Quote: Tiksi-3
                        Of course, because you do not need a discussion debate, but the number of comments for enhanced minus

                        in vain you are so, grunt is not a troll and quite an adequate character hi
            4. Vol4ara
              Vol4ara 10 November 2019 12: 28
              -1
              Quote: hrych
              Quote: Vol4ara
              This is because Putin said so.

              Because he did not say, but did, he ensured a breakthrough in strategic nuclear forces and tactical nuclear weapons. Provided Victory in Crimean, Caucasian and Syrian companies.

              Throwing Blah Blah Blah, so our goal is victory or the inevitability of retaliation? And if the latter, then because Putin said so?
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 10 November 2019 12: 48
                -3
                Quote: Vol4ara
                so we have the goal of victory or the inevitability of retaliation?

                My personal goal is to prevent war. Guaranteed retaliation, IMHO, allows to achieve this goal.

                Victory in a world (and even not quite world) war is now technically impossible.

                Quote: Vol4ara
                because Putin said so

                Are you allergic to Putin? Or what did he say? wink
            5. Earthshaker
              Earthshaker 10 November 2019 12: 35
              +2
              Victory in the Caucasus? Is it a constant payment of tribute to Kadyrov - a victory? Is the Syrian company over?
              1. hrych
                hrych 10 November 2019 14: 10
                -2
                With the flight of the Americans and the French, as well as the defeat of the Daishaks, etc., the Syrian company ended. Moved to the stage of counter-terrorist, police operation. Tribute to Kadyrov, of course, is complete nonsense. Rosneft somehow shakes from Chechen wells, and for some reason your brother does not call tribute to the majority of subsidized regions of the Russian Federation. How so? Or should the region destroyed by the war be left behind? You are talking nonsense.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. sniperino
            sniperino 10 November 2019 21: 26
            -2
            Quote: Vol4ara
            or because we are no longer able to afford victory?
            Retaliation is a broader concept: it is not only a victory over the aggressor, but a common kirdyk is also possible, where there will be no winners. So to say, a combat draw.
        2. rocket757
          rocket757 10 November 2019 19: 33
          0
          Quote: Nikolai Ivanov_5
          our goal is not superiority and victory, but the inevitability of retaliation

          No one just succeeded in defending themselves and remain intact!
    2. hrych
      hrych 10 November 2019 10: 44
      -1
      Quote: Basarev
      with their technological dominance, they can afford a respite

      There is no such domination; they have no respite. Poseidon (God of the Seas) v.
      1. NordOst16
        NordOst16 10 November 2019 11: 56
        +1
        As everyone worked out with Poseidons and Zircons, which no one had seen in their eyes and not the fact that they would appear even by the end of the next decade. And if they do, then there will be negligible carriers by that time.
        And the American armada is already here and now. The Strategic Missile Forces can and will prevent direct aggression against the Russian Federation, but the lack of a fleet will block Russia in Eurasia, where China will push us on one side and NATO on the other.
        1. hrych
          hrych 10 November 2019 14: 45
          -3
          Quote: NordOst16
          the absence of a fleet will block Russia in Eurasia, where China will push us on one side and NATO on the other

          Do we have a fleet? We have a couple of the most kruppy atomic cruisers, there are destroyers, frigates and BODs, which are armed with strike and strategic systems. We have nuclear multipurpose aircraft, including Antey, Pike, Ash, and some titanium submarine fighter interceptors. There are even better strategic and long-range bombers. Therefore, without panic. Poseidon shook your rudders and twisted the screw. That Poseidon, that the Petrel - a torpedo and the Kyrgyz Republic of unlimited range and do not need carriers, at least 4 nuclear submarines are being converted. The dreadnought time has passed and there is no need to invest in an anachronism. Let the Chinese marmoset, one damn thing they will not have time. We have and are building an icebreaking fleet, we are preparing to dominate the onset of icing ...
          1. NordOst16
            NordOst16 10 November 2019 15: 30
            +5
            Quote: hrych
            We have a couple of the most kruppy atomic cruisers

            Two with outdated equipment (and the modernization of one will end no earlier than 21 years old). And the second one will have to wait another 4 years. in fact, we will have one cruiser. And Project 1164 cruisers are even worse.
            Quote: hrych
            there are destroyers, frigates and BOD,

            BOD are destroyers and they are already outdated and do not correspond to modern realities (the absence of long-range air defense systems, weak missile weapons and outdated sonar equipment) and this does not take into account the age of the corps itself. Frigates more or less modern are no more than a dozen.

            Quote: hrych
            We have nuclear multipurpose aircraft, including Antey, Pike, Ash, and some titanium submarine fighter interceptors.

            Ash 2, the remaining third-generation nuclear submarines, which are more vulnerable to modern nuclear submarines. At the same time, Ash plans to lay 7 pieces - this is not even funny against the planned 30 Virginia and about a dozen submarines of NATO countries.

            Quote: hrych
            There are even better strategic and long-range bombers.

            If you do not take into account rarities like Tu95, then more or less effective Tu160 we have 17 pieces left.

            Quote: hrych
            That Poseidon, that the Petrel - a torpedo and the Kyrgyz Republic of unlimited range and do not need carriers, at least 4 nuclear submarines are being converted.

            While Petrel does not want to fly further than Russian territory. With Poseidon, the situation is even darker. And it reminds these all miraculous weapons of the notorious SDI.

            And this is not taking into account the complete absence of MRA and anti-submarine aviation, as well as a sufficient number of mine minesweepers.

            Quote: hrych
            The dreadnought time has passed and there is no need to invest in an anachronism.

            Well, since the fleet became an anachronism - then fine, but rather it became an anachronism precisely in the Russian Federation because we have neither the means nor the ability to build it.

            Quote: hrych
            Let the Chinese marmoset, one damn thing they will not have time. We have and are building an icebreaking fleet, we are preparing to dominate the onset of icing ...

            And you are a joker. We will live with our icebreakers in the coming era of rivalry between the two superpowers - China and the United States, and Russia will be assigned the role of a supporting country.
            1. hrych
              hrych 10 November 2019 16: 02
              -6
              In short, you write a lot, a little sense. We have a decent number of diesel submarines because there is such a geography that we have a continental power and where we are bordered by seas and shelves, where atomic and loud cows are hard, but diesels are just right. Therefore, we have enough nuclear submarines to act in the zone of our interests, and for defense it is enough both nuclear submarines and diesel-electric submarines, which the USA, Britain and France do not have at all. The US nuclear submarines are not so much intended for us, but for world hegemony and the protection of its coast and its vital trade routes. Huge amounts of US spending to deter China, Iran and even its allies so far. Fershteen? Their pair of boats always guards the Persian Gulf, a pair of the Suez Canal and the Strait of Malacca. And the Panama Canal, and Aden, and Tsushima. We do not care about these ways, we have our own, land. Therefore, the number of boats for the United States will always be small. There is nothing to do in the Black Sea and Baltic submarines. Do not get into Okhotsk, etc. Therefore, think with your head, and not with other organs. Understand that there is a continental power, opposite to that which, without sea oil supplies, will bend completely.
              1. NordOst16
                NordOst16 10 November 2019 16: 39
                +3
                Quote: hrych
                In short, you write a lot, a little sense. We have a decent number of diesel submarines because there is such a geography that we have a continental power and where we are bordered by seas and shelves, where atomic and loud cows are hard, but diesels are just right.

                Well, where am I going to you)))
                It's just that they are being built with rather old projects (the development of Varshavyanka), and the new project (Lada) has not paid off. While Germans, French, Swedes, Koreans and Japs use either VNEU or capacious lithium batteries.

                Quote: hrych
                Therefore, we have enough submarines to act in the zone of our interests

                Where are our interests located? Off the coast, where anti-submarine aircraft cannot penetrate? For in the open ocean, our submarines are left face to face with modern US nuclear submarines and their anti-submarine aircraft. Without a surface fleet, our submarines are locked along the Russian coast.

                Quote: hrych
                The US nuclear submarines are not so much intended for us, but for world hegemony and the protection of its coast and its vital trade routes.

                A large surface fleet, anti-submarine aviation and nuclear submarines are involved in protecting trade routes.

                Quote: hrych
                Huge funds spent by the United States to deter China, Iran

                The first and second have extremely flawed both surface and submarine fleets and it is controlled by the American allies. This makes it possible for the States to use their nuclear submarines to patrol the territories of the possible deployment of Russian strategic missile carriers and to protect their strategic submarines from our multi-purpose nuclear submarines, and the lines of anti-submarine defense begin not far from our shores. Fershteyn?

                Quote: hrych
                Their pair of boats always guards the Persian Gulf, a pair of the Suez Canal and the Strait of Malacca. And the Panama Canal, and Aden, and Tsushima.

                Apart from the Panama Canal, in other places there are naval forces of their allies. So the Americans have the opportunity to begin tracking our multi-purpose nuclear submarines when they are still in Russian sea waters. For we have no (or extremely inefficient) anti-submarine defense.

                Quote: hrych
                Understand that there is a continental power, opposite to that which, without sea oil supplies, will bend completely.

                It’s just that our continental power has long sea borders and attacks from all strategically important objects of our country can be struck from this direction because we do not have the means to control our sea border. We have no way to drive the adversary from their shores.

                Quote: hrych
                Therefore, think with your head, and not with other organs.

                I can advise the same to you.
          2. Good_Anonymous
            Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 16: 20
            +3
            Quote: hrych
            getting ready to dominate the onset of icing ...


            Are you from a parallel universe? Because we are having global warming.
            1. hrych
              hrych 10 November 2019 20: 23
              -4
              Quote: Good_Anonymous
              Are you from a parallel universe? Because we are having global warming.

              Did Alik Gore tell you that? wassat And you believed. A new era of glaciation begins. So mammoths froze in the Arctic. Arias invaded China, India, Iran and the South of Europe, Arabia and even Africa. The following glaciation threw the Scythians to their southern relatives. The great migration of peoples made the Goths and the Vandals move south. Now the beginning of a new period, the Gulf Stream has slowed down, the altitude flow over Britain has changed. The Arab spring, the pogrom of Libya and Iraq, as well as the Balkan mess - an attempt by the West to prepare a southern bridgehead. And you continue to listen to Horus (but not the God of Egypt), but the beautiful, ancient Prince Charlie wassat
              1. Good_Anonymous
                Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 20: 27
                0
                Quote: hrych
                A new era of glaciation begins.


                So, we have another alien heated up.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 10 November 2019 12: 13
        +7
        "Poseidon (God of the Seas) against." ////
        --------
        Poseidon so far clearly on the side of the imperialists laughing
        They have more than 100 such birds.

        Poseidon P-8 "hitman" submarines
        1. hrych
          hrych 10 November 2019 14: 51
          -4
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Poseidon P-8 "hitman" submarines

          Not a killer, but a stupid and clumsy cow - the victim of our supersonic interceptors. Not a single boat was intercepted or destroyed in its history. Killer without victims wassat More like a digitist. wassat This cow does not have access to our shelf, where our SSBNs go.
          1. NordOst16
            NordOst16 10 November 2019 15: 32
            +4
            Well, we have the same ones, which have never destroyed anyone, C400, Poplar, Ash and Borea.
            A clumsy cow - are you talking about Antei? Yes, I agree.

            Quote: hrych
            This cow does not have access to our shelf, where our SSBNs go.

            Because there the American nuclear submarines quite calmly control the situation.
            1. hrych
              hrych 10 November 2019 15: 50
              -5
              Quote: NordOst16
              A clumsy cow - are you talking about Antei? Yes, I agree

              First, take the trouble to see its speed, and this is 32 knots and higher. All that more than 30 knots boldly call an underwater racer. So note. Warrior Wow called the plane a killer. So far, the S-400 has not been called a killer, so your analogy is insignificant.

              Quote: NordOst16
              Because there the American nuclear submarines quite calmly control the situation.

              No, they are not calm and do not control. There dominates our forces PLO. Noiseless Kilo there are no equal. One of their boats froze in the ice, yes. But these were not our heroes otherwise they would have been completely destroyed.
              1. NordOst16
                NordOst16 10 November 2019 15: 57
                +2
                Humor is good)))
                Only you forgot to mention the Squall M supersonic torpedo, which can be found by American submariners by the smell of dirty portages when they enter the area of ​​responsibility of our fleet xD
                1. hrych
                  hrych 10 November 2019 16: 09
                  -5
                  A flurry of completely necessary units and Iranian boats are now scaring Americans with it. Read better about the Wind and Waterfall rocket torpedoes. Now there are their analogues - modifications of Caliber. A rocket goes into the sky and the adversary does not go away and does not hide, will cover with a depth bomb or a minitorpeda. What rocket torpedoes did you think of? About Squall, Duc is an underwater, cavitation rocket rather. By the way, there is now a project where at the last stage there will be a similar thing, but not the point.
                  1. NordOst16
                    NordOst16 10 November 2019 16: 22
                    +2
                    Quote: hrych
                    What rocket torpedoes did you think of?

                    It’s not news that we (I don’t know the name), that the Americans (asroks or whatever) appeared long ago.

                    Well, that’s why Iranian boats scare the Americans that aircraft carriers in the Atlantic Ocean can get a flurry from the pier)))
              2. NordOst16
                NordOst16 10 November 2019 16: 45
                +1
                Quote: hrych
                First, take the trouble to see its speed, and this is 32 knots and higher. All that more than 30 knots boldly call an underwater racer.

                Still, at the same time, the boat would not make noise on the floor of the ocean and it would be wonderful, but soulless physics interferes)))

                Quote: hrych
                So note. Warrior Wow called the plane a killer. So far, the S-400 has not been called a killer, so your analogy is insignificant.

                Well, Antey is called the killer of aircraft carriers and nothing.

                Quote: hrych
                There dominates our forces PLO.

                Ahaha, what are these forces? How old are they?

                Quote: hrych
                Noiseless Kilo there are no equal.

                Silence is good, but at the same time it would be nice to hear the adversary, and there are problems with this
                1. hrych
                  hrych 10 November 2019 20: 11
                  -4
                  Quote: NordOst16
                  Still, while the boat was not noisy on the ocean floor

                  No more noise than other nuclear submarines. It was an American death about "roaring cows", but despite SOSUS and geography, they quite successfully made their way to the Atlantic. Now this is not required ICBM allows from the pier. The patrol route has changed and in fact it is not necessary to leave their PLO, their waters, etc. But now they have to hunt, where they are being raided. They cannot go in full steam, etc. I explain for the last time, the diesel-electric submarine completely disables all mechanisms ... completely and hangs with zero buoyancy, absolutely silently. The nuclear submarine does not have such an opportunity, the reactor should be. in constant work, a coolant must circulate through it, and intensively, and this is noise, but in the White Sea, where there is silence, the farting of white bears, the main noise. Sonars also work in active and passive modes. And the detection range is multiple. In our waters, our PLOs boldly work in an active mode, and it is death for them. The hydrophone of the diesel-electric submarines and nuclear submarines is the same, the detection range to the background level is the same, but the nuclear submarine cannot put its noise anywhere, and this is a fact. Also, the nuclear submarine is stupidly larger, it has more turbulence, there, besides the nuclear power plant, there are more physical noises, more people, other mechanisms, etc. More propeller, more rudders, more wake. Flurry is a relatively close combat weapon and a last-chance weapon trapped in our submarine. Even if they heard the first torpedo strike of the enemy, she started up and hit him first with its nuclear charge. Therefore, it is necessary to have it and it gives the same overwhelming superiority in combat up to 13 kilometers and of course in the nuclear version.
                  1. NordOst16
                    NordOst16 10 November 2019 21: 51
                    +2
                    Quote: hrych
                    No more noise than other nuclear submarines. It was an American death about "roaring cows", but despite SOSUS and geography, they quite successfully made their way to the Atlantic.

                    Well, at 30 knots, the submarines do not go because they make a lot of noise. In the maximum stealth mode, submarines of 5 generations and up to 3 of the fourth go to 20 nodes (because they are equipped with much quieter water jet engines), here the question is for Yasen because a strange choice was to provide him with screws instead of a water cannon (like Boreas), but this is a topic for a separate article.
                    And yes, so successfully that as soon as SLBMs with an intercontinental range appeared, they immediately hid in the bastions.

                    Quote: hrych
                    The patrol route has changed and in fact it is not necessary to leave your PLO, your waters, etc.

                    This is only because we, unlike the Americans, cannot ensure the safety of our submarines in the open ocean. In turn, Americans can deploy their Ohio relatively close to our territory and thus have the potential to launch a preemptive strike.

                    Quote: hrych
                    I explain the last time, DEPL completely disables all mechanisms ... completely and freezes with zero buoyancy, absolutely silent. The nuclear submarine does not have such an opportunity, the reactor should in constant operation, coolant must circulate through it, and intensively

                    Well then, I am also repeating for the last time that creating the minimum noise for a submarine is necessary, but not a sufficient condition, we must also hear the enemy. A nuclear submarine, although they have such noisy units as a reactor and a turbine, but at the same time, due to their size, they give designers the opportunity to use much more means to reduce noise. For example, the natural circulation of the coolant in the reactor, cascades of soundproofing platforms for noisy units. Active noise reduction. And the most important thing is that diesel-electric submarines, due to their modest size, equip a hull with much more modest characteristics. And it turns out that the nuclear submarine cannot detect submarines due to the low noise of the latter, but the nuclear submarines will not be able to detect the submarines due to the less perfect HAK.

                    Quote: hrych
                    yes in the White Sea, where there is silence, farting of white bears, the main noise

                    However, this is the only thing that allows (like the Sea of ​​Okhotsk.) To somehow ensure the safety of our SSBNs. For in the open ocean they would be more likely to be found.

                    Quote: hrych
                    The hydrophone, that of DEPL, that of the submarine is the same,

                    It’s fundamentally wrong, the submarine hull will always have higher performance, if only because more massive equipment can be installed on the submarine.

                    Quote: hrych
                    Therefore, you need to have it and it gives the same overwhelming superiority in battle to 13 kilometers and of course in the nuclear version.

                    Only if it’s nuclear, because otherwise it’s useless without a control system, but ours are unlikely to be the first to take up nuclear weapons because it is fraught with a nuclear conflict.

                    But even if they can provide protection for the SSBN, it will be very difficult for us to deploy their submarines in the open ocean without hindrance, because superior submarines, anti-submarine aircraft and surface ships will act against our boats. They also won’t be able to protect the northern borders from being hit by cruise missiles from under water, because in reality there is an insufficient number of surface ships and anti-submarine aircraft, as well as their moral and physical obsolescence.
                    1. hrych
                      hrych 10 November 2019 22: 17
                      -2
                      Quote: NordOst16
                      In maximum stealth mode, submarines of 5 generations and up to 3 of the fourth go to 20 nodes of the submarine (because they are equipped with much quieter water-jet propulsion)

                      Where is this complete nonsense. First, Ohio, the third generation, and Borey the fourth. Those. Northwind is equal to Virginia and Siowulf in a generation. In short, our underwater fighter (according to your logic) Ohio is too tough. What else is needed. But Borey is not inferior to their fighters. What is the argument then? Secondly, Borey’s exit is covered, like all PLO systems, not limited to a lousy passive sonar. There they scan with magnetrons, and look at the wake trace and use active echolocation, etc., including the same passive sonar. Do you understand this? This is our active area PLO. This is what we want and do. And if Boreas gave the tear of 30 knots, Sivulf cannot afford to chase him, with your super-secretiveness he should not exceed 20 knots wassat Do you understand this? And to be honest you with American superiority, which is not there, have already tired me wassat Firstly, that Virginia, that Pike-B will never reveal its true characteristics, in order to objectively argue. That's the secret state wassat Everything that goes in the open press is either hypothetically or frankly misinformation. Not only that, our mentality and tactics in technology - the characteristics are underestimated, but the Americans, on the contrary, overestimate for intimidation. In a real combat situation, our unpleasantly surprise the enemy, and their technique messes up. They are capitalists and Westerners, they have a mentality to advertise and intimidate, and we put to sleep vigilance, succumb, lure and kill. Napoleon with 600 million hordes enters and leaves ... one Na.pole.eon. wassat
                      1. NordOst16
                        NordOst16 10 November 2019 23: 33
                        +1
                        Quote: hrych
                        Where is this complete nonsense.

                        You read my mind directly.

                        Quote: hrych
                        First, Ohio, the third generation, and Borey the fourth.

                        Did I indicate somewhere that this is not so?

                        Quote: hrych
                        Those. Northwind is equal to Virginia and Siowulf in a generation.

                        It’s yes by generation, but it is inferior in terms of noise at least because of its size and, most likely, in terms of its HAC, because the superiority of Americans in electronics is enormous, but here it plays a huge role because it requires analysis of a large amount of information.

                        Quote: hrych
                        In short, our underwater fighter (according to your logic) Ohio is too tough.

                        In theory, yes, adjusted for the most likely less perfect HACK. But our multi-purpose nuclear submarines still need to get to the American missile carriers. For perhaps the most advanced PLO aircraft, surface ships and a whole fleet of submarines will interfere with us. So the likelihood that our submarines will be able to catch Ohio is very low.

                        Quote: hrych
                        Secondly, Borey’s exit is covered, like all PLO systems, not limited to a lousy passive sonar.

                        That's just a hundred years in the afternoon at lunchtime. They are very outdated, but must fight the fourth generation nuclear submarines. Do you understand this?

                        Quote: hrych
                        And if Borey gave the knot at 30 knots, Sivulf cannot afford to chase him, with your super secretiveness, he should not exceed 20 knots. Do you understand this?

                        The missile carriers so simply do not switch to 30 nodes (which can give out their position), but only in extreme cases. And if this happened, then this is very bad news for the submarine and it will most likely be sunk in combat conditions.

                        Quote: hrych
                        And to be honest you with American superiority, which is not there, have already tired me

                        But your reluctance to try to objectively look at the situation also upsets. Because, at the moment, the Americans are running the ball in the oceans and it makes me very sad.

                        Quote: hrych
                        Firstly, that Virginia, that Pike-B will never reveal its true characteristics, in order to objectively argue.

                        Of course, 90% of analytical articles on VO are more reminiscent of fortune-telling on coffee grounds. But there are some indirect data on which you can approximately look at the picture. And the catastrophic shortage of modern anti-submarine ships (destroyer) and anti-submarine aircraft in the face and this makes me very sad.

                        Quote: hrych
                        Not only that, our mentality and tactics in technology - the characteristics are underestimated, but the Americans, on the contrary, overestimate for intimidation.

                        Come on, come on. Now everyone is trying to overestimate the characteristics of their weapons (which are some "unparalleled in the world", etc.). Even if it is not inferior to us and even surpasses the American one in some way, the loss of competence in the production of large surface ships and anti-submarine aircraft is evident. And you would know how it upsets me.

                        Quote: hrych
                        In a real combat situation, our unpleasantly surprise the enemy, and their technique messes up.

                        Not only their equipment does not work as planned by the engineers. And our Armor passed drones to the base in Syria. The long construction of Ivan Gren, Gorshkov, the necessary modernization of Mi 28 helicopters (after the operation in Syria). And much more shows that people tend to make mistakes, regardless of their country of origin.

                        Quote: hrych
                        nor capitalists and Westerners, they have a mentality to advertise and intimidate, and we put to sleep vigilance, succumb, lure and kill.

                        Well, you are overdoing it. They like to advertise not only with them, but also with us.

                        I just think that underestimating the enemy is mortally dangerous, and many people commit this sin. Hope for the best, but get ready for the worst.
                      2. hrych
                        hrych 11 November 2019 00: 00
                        -2
                        Quote: NordOst16
                        yet the superiority of Americans in electronics is colossal

                        You are a colossal American scientist. wassat
                        Quote: NordOst16
                        Because, at the moment, the Americans are running the ball in the oceans and it makes me very sad.

                        In the northern latitudes, Russia rules. But it has enough funds to violate American hegemony anywhere
                        Quote: NordOst16
                        loss of competence in the production of large surface ships and anti-submarine aircraft.
                        The time of Drendouts, cruisers and aircraft carriers has passed. This is an anachronism and a big target. Promising samples such as intercontinental torpedoes and intercontinental cruise missiles, which have already appeared, do not need carriers at all. With the commissioning of the ZGRLS Container, it became possible to track the enemy for 3 thousand kilometers and attack the fleet’s ballistic missile connections when the flying time does not allow to escape from a powerful nuclear charge or weak warheads in a checkerboard pattern. The Chinese are following our old path with braking the BR for guidance, and we have a dagger with a range of thousands of kilometers. Having large ships and large connections is becoming .. stupid. In addition to the Mig-31K, we have the Tu22M3 with the same hypersonic dagger and near-hypersonic X-32
                        Quote: NordOst16
                        And our Armor passed drones to the base in Syria

                        No not missed
                        Quote: NordOst16
                        underestimating the enemy is deadly

                        To overestimate and panic is 100 times worse. We are superior to the Americans in radar technology in many respects, in particular in air defense systems, early warning systems and even airborne radar, in particular on the Su-35, he sees farthest, but in general, of course, parity. With some fright, we have to give in to echolocation. The principles are one and there are no secrets. Intelligence and industrial espionage works as a last resort. It is already clear to everyone that the Americans called our boats "roaring cows" precisely for misinformation. If there were such, on the contrary, it would be necessary to be silent and track, and at hour X, to destroy. But no. It's okay, we quietly broke through to the Atlantic, now it is no longer necessary. On the contrary, they need to come to us. Now they are "roaring cows" wassat
                      3. NordOst16
                        NordOst16 11 November 2019 00: 51
                        0
                        Quote: hrych
                        You are a colossal American scientist.

                        Apparently there is nothing else to say here and nothing to give out, except that it is not at all connected with the case. At least it pleases.

                        Quote: hrych
                        In the northern latitudes, Russia rules. But it has enough funds to violate American hegemony anywhere

                        Just the same maximum we can control the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, and the Barents Sea. Further, we have neither the means nor the opportunities. We have about 3 dozen large and very outdated ships for the entire fleet and the lack of modern anti-submarine aircraft.

                        Quote: hrych
                        The time of Drendouts, cruisers and aircraft carriers has passed. This is an anachronism and a big target.

                        For some reason, this idea only settled in our heads, while the rest of the countries that can afford the construction of ocean ships are being built by destroyers, cruisers, and aircraft carriers. It can be assumed that there are only fools at the helm, but only before the leadership of the Russian Federation insight has descended. But most likely - it's just an attempt to compensate for what we can not afford - the construction of a full-fledged ocean fleet. I would say that this can almost be called a painting under our powerlessness.

                        Quote: hrych
                        Promising samples such as intercontinental torpedoes and intercontinental cruise missiles, which have already appeared, do not need carriers at all.

                        They have not yet appeared and have not entered service. And it’s quite a possibility that they won’t stand up. And if they do, then the intercontinental KR is subsonic and there is no need to invent anything new to intercept it. A torpedo will be forced to go through all the same anti-submarine lines. Well, this is all if they are finalized and adopted in sufficient numbers. For each country has its own carriage and cart of unrealized projects.

                        Quote: hrych
                        With the commissioning of the ZGRLS Container, it became possible to track the enemy for 3 thousand kilometers and attack the fleet’s ballistic missile connections when the flying time would not allow them to escape from a powerful nuclear charge or weak warheads in a checkerboard pattern.

                        That's just the development of means of ship’s air defense also does not stand still, as well as the possibility of destroying or incapacitating SAM systems with the same DRGs using compact nuclear charges.

                        Quote: hrych
                        and we got a dagger with a range of thousands of kilometers.

                        And with unconfirmed guidance capabilities on moving targets. And information about a range of 1000 km is very controversial.

                        Quote: hrych
                        Having large ships and large connections is becoming .. stupid.

                        I repeat that this is only believed in Russia (well, in Ukraine with their mosquito fleet). Here, as I wrote above, there are only two options - either all around, or we can’t just do this.

                        Quote: hrych
                        No not missed

                        Even the photos were damaged aircraft.

                        Quote: hrych
                        We surpass the Americans in radar technologies in many respects, in particular in air defense systems, SPRN and even radar systems, in particular on the Su-35 it sees farthest, but in general, of course, parity.

                        Air defense - only land-based, naval air defense of the Americans surpasses everything that we have in the Navy, and for the atmospheric interceptors, and what we have at the disposal of the ground forces. SPRN - we have practically no satellite echelon for missile attack warning. Radar - we do not have a single mass AFAR in the fighter fleet. Su-35 sees farthest than all, but winning PFAR in terms of energy has flaws in terms of survivability and counteraction against electronic warfare.

                        Quote: hrych
                        With some fright, we must yield in echolocation.

                        The fact that we have a huge lag in electronics (not just computing).

                        Quote: hrych
                        It is already clear to everyone that the Americans called our boats "roaring cows" precisely for misinformation.

                        I do not argue that the Americans are exaggerating, but there is no smoke without fire. And in terms of the amount of modern technology, we are godlessly behind.

                        Quote: hrych
                        If this were the case, on the contrary it would be necessary to remain silent and track, and at hour X, destroy.

                        The smaller the opponent, the louder he is trying to show his strength (like Iran and the DPRK) and here, unfortunately, we are far behind.

                        Quote: hrych
                        It's okay, we quietly broke through to the Atlantic, now it is no longer necessary. On the contrary, they need to come to us. Now they are "roaring cows"

                        Only in your and my dreams. We do not break through only because we do not have opportunities for this.

                        It seems to me that it is worth completing our dialogue because, as it seems to me, we still will not come to a consensus)))
                        So I can only hope that I just thicken the colors a lot, and you have a more objective point of view.
                      4. hrych
                        hrych 11 November 2019 02: 06
                        0
                        Hmeimim fired from a mortar Cornflower. The story says the opposite, that we were the first to make the FAR on the fighter, which is the Barrier. The first made digital communication between fighters. The first to do ZGRLS and now there are no equal. Three spacecraft of the Tundra SPRN spacecraft in orbit, we don’t forget it, even though we made a bet on modular Voronezh. The GOS of our missile defense / air defense missiles show the best results, so self-abasement is enough and the dialogue should be stopped. It’s time to give up listening to Duc, but somehow we hold on and Crimea and Syria have been taken away from super-surpassing Americans.
                      5. Good_Anonymous
                        Good_Anonymous 11 November 2019 11: 59
                        -2
                        Quote: hrych
                        we were the first to make a FAR on a fighter


                        This was done by the Soviet Union. Which is long gone.
                      6. hrych
                        hrych 11 November 2019 12: 52
                        0
                        The Grand Duchy of Moscow, the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union and the Russian Federation are one ancient, millennial state of the Rus. The Russians made Mig-31, the Russians made FAR and the school did not stop. Georgia and Uzbekistan had an aviation industry. And where is it without Russia? Even in Ukraine there were Nikolaev shipyards for ocean-going ships, there was aviation Antonov and MotorSich, there was a space design bureau Yuzhnoye. Where is all this? Bankrupt and put up for sale, released one tank in Kharkov. Not a horse oats. And the Russian Federation, continued the work of their ancestors, the Voivode evolved in Sarmat, Poplar evolved in Yars. Su-27 evolved into Su-57. Just as the Great Russians were under the Tsar and the Secretary General, they remained under the President. And legally, the Russian Federation is the successor of the USSR in all international organizations and under contracts. Clear? Do not like it, contact the UN laughing
                      7. The comment was deleted.
                      8. hrych
                        hrych 11 November 2019 13: 20
                        0
                        Quote: Good_Anonymous
                        You even went for an alien

                        Firstly, the Russian Federation has remained the largest state on the planet. Secondly, taking into account the strategic nuclear forces and nuclear weapons, it remained the most powerful state. Therefore, it tore apart Georgia and Ukraine like torn cats, in front of the whole surprised world. I understand your upset Ukrainian-Israeli feelings, but nobody will allow you to engage in insults.
                      9. Good_Anonymous
                        Good_Anonymous 11 November 2019 13: 31
                        -2
                        Quote: hrych

                        First, the Russian Federation remained the largest state on the planet.


                        I remember that the Russian Federation has the largest territory. True, it is 80% not populated, but it is actually very large. In terms of population, the Russian Federation is about Japan, in terms of GDP (politely we take GDP at PPP) - between Indonesia and Germany.

                        Quote: hrych
                        Secondly, taking into account the strategic nuclear forces and nuclear weapons, it remains the most powerful state


                        Strategic Nuclear Forces and TNW guarantee one thing - freedom. No one will attack the Russian Federation, so it will develop (or degrade) as it sees fit. And "the most powerful" is fantasies, no matter what meaning is invested in "power" - military strength, wealth, standard of living, industry, science.
                      10. hrych
                        hrych 11 November 2019 14: 23
                        0
                        I will not give you a lecture about purchasing power parity and the real sector of the economy. It’s disgusting to communicate with you. There is a desire, you will find it yourself. But you will be surprised that per capita GDP of the real sector of the economy, that is, the production of inventory (industrial production, agriculture), and not services and trade speculation, is the same in the USA and the Russian Federation and exceeds China. Our standard of living is normal and decent, the Soviet man was simply a beggar in comparison. Nobody is starving and can afford all the benefits of civilization. Of course, in the consumer society there is no concept of saturation and everything is small. And look at the teaching staff that a German penny, receiving 100 thousand rubles in terms of money, can afford no more in Germany than our penny at home, receiving 10 thousand. Why German pence and love to ride to you, they feel superior. The presence of subsoil, rivers and forests is the true wealth of the state. Just like you brain spoiled GDP and other heresies. Science in the West is in extreme ... utter decline. Nobel is given for discoveries made 40 years ago and for graphene. Complete degradation. Our science also does not give out much, but there are brilliant attacks. Compact nuclear engine for example hypersonic resistant materials. The West did not give out anything like this for decades. We are also leaders in quantum devices. Top scientific and technological progress itself has reactive and nuclear technologies, less commonly medicine. Everywhere we are either leaders, or not inferior. What kind of science are you dreaming of? There are no inventions like the laser, fission of the nucleus of an atom, etc. There are no decades. According to the population with Crimea and Donbass, where the vast majority of Russians live, and in the future due to further Ukrainian migration, the population of the Russian Federation will exceed 150 million and growth will continue. Japan always eats about the land, but it is territorially larger than Germany, larger than Britain. Our population is larger than them by 25 million, well, such as today's Ukraine, not the most sparsely populated state. And population decline and aging in Japan intensified. Not the point. Of the mononations on Earth, some Great Russians occupy the 4th place after the Han, Hindustan and Bengal. But the Han people are a bunch of different ethnic groups that do not understand each other, and the northern Hindu residents with a Mongoloid impurity, and the southern ones with a Negroid (Dravidian). And okay, the Han, there you can recruit from sub-ethnic groups, we don’t touch them. But because of the racial impurities of the Hindustanis, Russians, purely Great Russians without Little Russians and Belarusians, are actually among the three mono-ethnic groups of the earth. People like you do not even know or think about it. They are looking at the rating by peoples, where we are faced with more Americans, Arabs and Brazilians. Here, for example, https://zen.yandex.ru/media/topcafe/samye-mnogochislennye-narody-mira-spisok-krupneishih-narodnostei-5c90b84731b65e00b39332cc
                        But the Americans are a mixture where there are whites from the Irish, Germans, etc. Brazilians are white, black, Indians, a bunch of creoles, mestizos, etc. Arabs generally need to be compared with the Slavs, Germans, but not with a mono-ethnic group. Therefore again you are sad. Although not the largest, but one of the largest mono-ethnic groups, owns the largest piece of Eurasia. And, of course, Ukraine is doomed to be devoured by us, which has begun, and the process will accelerate with the clown king. All for now, there is no time to enlighten you. Wind up on your mustache, read something there, maybe ... although unlikely.
                      11. Good_Anonymous
                        Good_Anonymous 11 November 2019 21: 18
                        -4
                        Quote: hrych
                        I will not give you a lecture about purchasing power parity and the real sector of the economy.


                        Well, in terms of GDP without PPP, Russia's place is in the second ten. And it would be interesting to listen to the lecture.

                        Quote: hrych
                        It’s disgusting to communicate with you.


                        And it’s fun to talk to you. When you still talk to an alien.

                        Quote: hrych
                        per capita, the GDP of the real sector of the economy, which is the production of inventory (industrial production, agriculture), and not services and trade speculation, is the same in the USA and the Russian Federation and exceeds China


                        The first time I hear that China has more trading speculation than the United States smile

                        Quote: hrych
                        Of the mononations on Earth, some Great Russians occupy the 4th place after the Han, Hindustan and Bengal. But the Han people are a bunch of different ethnic groups that do not understand each other, and the northern Hindu residents with a Mongoloid impurity, and the southern ones with a Negroid (Dravidian). And okay, the Han, there you can recruit from sub-ethnic groups, we don’t touch them. But because of the racial impurities of the Hindustanis, Russians, purely Great Russians without Little Russians and Belarusians, are actually among the three mono-ethnic groups of the earth.


                        Yes, you are also an anthropologist wassat

                        Quote: hrych
                        People like you do not even know or think about it. They are looking at the rating by peoples, where we are faced with more Americans, Arabs and Brazilians.


                        Like me, in general, do not care which of which ethnic group. Lish man would be good smile
                      12. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 11 November 2019 13: 00
                        -3
                        Quote: Good_Anonymous
                        Did it

                        The basis of the offensive REO complex B-1B is an AN / APQ-164 multifunctional monopulse radar station, created on the basis of the AN / APG-68 radar of the F-16 fighter with the replacement of a mobile slotted phased antenna array (PAR) with a solid-state one with electronic scanning
                        Aircraft multifunctional radar AN / APG-66 weapon control system for multi-purpose fighter F-16A / B, manufactured by General Dynamics, Fort Worth, pc. Texas, with support from the US Air Force, was developed by the Westinghouse Defense and Electronic Systems Center, Baltimore, PA. Maryland. This radar is designed in a modular fashion to increase reliability and maintainability.
                        The development of the WX designation of the Westinghouse family of radars made it possible to create the equipment that the company was able to offer for installation on a General Dynamics air fighter, in its modern version known as F-16A / B. The first serial radars entered service with the Air Force in June 1973, and by January 1984 more than 1700 such radar stations had already been launched.
                      13. Good_Anonymous
                        Good_Anonymous 11 November 2019 13: 17
                        -2
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        The basis of the complex offensive REO V-1V


                        Too lazy to look for when the B-1B was made, but it was about the headlamp on a fighter, which the B-1B is definitely not.
                      14. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 11 November 2019 13: 52
                        -3
                        Lancer radar is made on the basis of the F-16 radar which was already FAR and has been produced since 73 years.
                        station AN / APQ-164, created on the basis of the radar AN / APG-68 fighter F-16 with the replacement of a mobile slotted phased antenna array (PAR) solid state with electronic scanning
                      15. Good_Anonymous
                        Good_Anonymous 11 November 2019 13: 59
                        -3
                        And the source of this ... what? Wikipedia has the following to say:


                        The F-16A / B was originally equipped with the Westinghouse AN / APG-66 fire control radar.



                        The AN / APG-68 radar is a long range (up to 296 km) [1] Pulse-doppler radar designed by Westinghouse (now Northrop Grumman) to replace AN / APG-66 radar in the F-16 Fighting Falcon.


                        Anyway, argue better with a grunt. It's cool, I assure you.
                      16. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 11 November 2019 14: 04
                        -3
                        Quote: Good_Anonymous
                        what?

                        http://pentagonus.ru/publ/radioehlektronnoe_oborudovanie_bombardirovshhika_b_1b/18-1-0-1288

                        http://forums.airbase.ru/2002/03/t10739--rls-an-apg-66-so-srednej-chastotoj-povtoreniya-impulsov.3240.html
                        Quote: Good_Anonymous
                        with a grunt.

                        Have mercy on us sinners and save us
                        By the way, a curious interview on the topic
                        https://iz.ru/news/534821
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 10 November 2019 13: 06
      -4
      Quote: Basarev
      Americans, with their technological dominance, can afford a respite. But we have to act swiftly.

      We are already ahead in the question of SSBN mattresses. Now they are building Borei-A, but it will be necessary, they will start building Borei-B. Moreover, they differ from each other dramatically.
      1. Crash_117
        Crash_117 10 November 2019 14: 58
        +3
        Here's how to build it - then we'll talk. And so, throw your agidki elsewhere.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Crash_117
            Crash_117 10 November 2019 15: 35
            +1
            An analogue having no analogues in the singular?
            1. NordOst16
              NordOst16 10 November 2019 15: 58
              +1
              The rest are waiting in the wings on drawing paper in the carriage on the siding)))
          2. NordOst16
            NordOst16 10 November 2019 15: 36
            +2
            But do we (and indeed anyone) have the opportunity to threaten their third-generation nuclear submarines? They control the ocean and have the ability to safely bring their strategic missile carriers closer to the coast of the enemy. And we, God forbid, can ensure the relative safety of our missile carriers not far from our territory and then with tension.
            So we need to be careful about Virginia, which, with a quantitative advantage (if not qualitative) and almost complete absence of anti-submarine aviation, can control the deployment zones of our missile carriers.
          3. Good_Anonymous
            Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 16: 16
            +2
            Quote: NEXUS
            And Ohio mattresses are not a fact that will be laid in the year 20.


            It will definitely not be laid. Ohio has not been built for 20 years.
  2. certero
    certero 10 November 2019 08: 17
    +1
    Interestingly, about the propulsion system in the form of an electric motor, is this not misinformation from the Americans?
    1. Zhan
      Zhan 10 November 2019 08: 31
      +3
      Quote: certero
      Interestingly, about the propulsion system in the form of an electric motor, is this not misinformation from the Americans?

      It seems not a misinformation. We have a similar unit on the submarine submarine "LADA"
      1 х main propeller motor SED-1 (brushless low-speed all-mode electric motor with permanent magnet excitation) with a power of 4100 hp development CDB MT "Rubin" together with FSUE NIIEFA them. D.V. Efremova.
      1. certero
        certero 11 November 2019 01: 03
        0
        On diesel other engines for underwater and does not happen. It's about atomic.
    2. asv363
      asv363 10 November 2019 08: 40
      +2
      Now in many projects refuse screws. That is why the mention of permanent magnets, I did not understand.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 10 November 2019 11: 41
        +6
        On many submarine projects they refuse openly located screws, there can be screws and pumps in water cannons, but all of them will be driven by electric motors, but permanent magnets will be installed on them. On the direct run of water EM field of speech is not.
      2. NordOst16
        NordOst16 10 November 2019 15: 37
        +1
        In order not to use superconducting magnets.
      3. Good_Anonymous
        Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 16: 25
        +1
        Quote: asv363
        That is why the mention of permanent magnets, I did not understand.


        Permanent magnet motors. There will be Integrated Electric Propulsion.
  3. Nikolay Ivanov_5
    Nikolay Ivanov_5 10 November 2019 08: 17
    +3
    arms race is gaining momentum
  4. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 10 November 2019 08: 23
    +6
    Well what can I say ... Serious boats are going to replace the Ohio ... And those were - not a gift. And we - we need to thresh our shovel ... Our boats should be ... Maybe fewer in number, and not so noiseless. But no less deadly. So that the adversary does not even have a thought that it will be possible with impunity ...
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 10 November 2019 08: 38
      +1
      Does the keyword MUST? The arms race is now akin to the one that was thirty years ago. And how did it end for us? ..
      1. The popuas
        The popuas 10 November 2019 08: 50
        +2
        Than!? The collapse !? So not because of this the USSR fell apart, but because of officials and security officials who had accumulated solid capital under the USSR, and then simply seized public property! So not because of this ....
        1. Chit
          Chit 10 November 2019 10: 42
          -10
          Come on!
          What does privatization have to do with it?
          Mass privatization was allowed in 1991. In the same year, the USSR collapsed. Have you bought everything in a couple of months?
          And what solid capital do you mean? Yes, a bit of the party elite and government agencies may have turned over millions. Rubles.
          But not with the billions of dollars that Vekselberg, Abramovich, Rotenberg, Friedman, etc.
          Not because of privatization the Union collapsed. And even more so not because of a handful of traitors.
          And because of the collapse of ideology. Chewing gum with jeans defeated Marxism-Leninism. And this must be admitted. And tens of thousands of tanks and millions of soldiers in this case were powerless.
          Plus, the Union logically approached the finale of financial potential. Separation lost the cooperation of the capitalist world.
          Well, the arms race and falling oil prices finished off the Union completely.
          1. Chit
            Chit 10 November 2019 10: 48
            -10
            A little - part, EU-no.
        2. NordOst16
          NordOst16 10 November 2019 15: 38
          -4
          Rather, because of the failed economic system (I'm talking about the socialist system) and the disappointment of citizens in their country.
  5. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 10 November 2019 08: 46
    +6
    The fact that new nuclear submarines will be built to replace Ohio is normal. We, too, have already decently outdated "Dolphins" change to "Borei". As new nuclear submarines of the Ohio type come into operation, they will be gradually decommissioned.
    Another thing is that the amers have surface carriers of the CD already in such quantities that they will be able to form several shock fists from the Burks alone, capable of releasing so many Tomahawks that no air defense can cope! Here it is banal quantity beats quality request
    This is where you need to sound the alarm and think about how to neutralize more than 60 Orly Burke-class destroyers. what
  6. knn54
    knn54 10 November 2019 09: 04
    +1
    And what’s interesting, in the US Navy, NOT ONE DPL,
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 November 2019 09: 44
      +5
      They don’t need it - they don’t have to defend their own coast from the superior forces of the enemy fleet.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 10 November 2019 13: 38
        +3
        They began to build such unpretentious "hound" submarines. Found it under water - transferred Poseidon to the plane.
        He threw deep bombs ...
        1. Good_Anonymous
          Good_Anonymous 10 November 2019 13: 57
          -1
          Have you already started? More recently, these were just prototypes.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Armata T-14
    Armata T-14 10 November 2019 10: 54
    -4
    It makes no difference, because the United States will cease to exist during the last liberal global financial and economic crisis of 2021
  9. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 10 November 2019 11: 30
    +3
    "The new generation submarine will receive X-shaped aft rudders, as well as horizontal depth rudders mounted on the wheelhouse." Hello Operator (Andrey), let the Merikatos know, he is against these perversions!
    1. Operator
      Operator 10 November 2019 17: 35
      +1
      Chopping rudders reduce the ability of nuclear submarines to break through ice, so I only welcome their installation on Columbia laughing

      The advantage of these submarines is the X-shaped rudders with non-perpendicular pairwise planes (eliminating the effect of angular reflection of sonar radiation) and a direct-drive direct-drive rowing electric motor (ensuring the absence of gear noise in the entire speed range).
      1. Avior
        Avior 10 November 2019 19: 48
        0
        Chopping rudders reduce the ability of nuclear submarines to break through ice, so I only welcome their installation on Columbia

        no, they’re just put upright, they help cut through the ice.
      2. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 11 November 2019 04: 28
        +1
        These "radishes" under the ice, unlike our boats, do not need skerry. Almost the entire World Ocean is at their disposal. ((
  10. Old26
    Old26 10 November 2019 12: 28
    +2
    Quote: Armata T-14
    It makes no difference, because the United States will cease to exist during the last liberal global financial and economic crisis of 2021

    Yes, the prophet of you is not perfect. This is the third or fourth term of the collapse of the United States, which you are vanging. EMNIP at first it was the first quarter of 2019. Then - 2020, now 2021. You can print your forecasts on paper and hang them on a clove in the toilet. There will be more benefit from them.
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. Operator
    Operator 10 November 2019 19: 41
    +1
    Quote: hrych
    Russophobes have a different opinion

    Russophobes are forced to give out need for virtue because of hopelessness - nothing but PR for Western SSBNs of the past century model shines for them laughing
  13. Operator
    Operator 10 November 2019 20: 54
    0
    Quote: Avior
    they are simply placed vertically, they help cut through the ice

    Have you come up with? laughing
    1. Avior
      Avior 11 November 2019 02: 41
      0
      not Ohio, of course, but the principle is the same. The wheels themselves do not interfere with the float from under the ice.
      1. Avior
        Avior 11 November 2019 03: 04
        0

        here the Americans are surfacing. here's another Archerfish (SSN-678) pops up

        no big problem
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 11 November 2019 04: 32
          +2
          I wanted to write about the Sturgeon-type nuclear submarine, but I will write, this is not an SSBN, but an attack nuclear submarine, a good example, but not entirely correct.
          1. Avior
            Avior 11 November 2019 05: 26
            -1
            it was about the steering wheels on the wheelhouse, it has no direct relation to the type of boat.
            the principle of surfacing is the same in both Soviet and American, just like I wrote.
            and above not "Sturgeon"
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 11 November 2019 06: 06
              +2
              Sturgeon-class USS Archerfish (SSN-678), a Sturgeon-class attack submarine. And only on this type, EMNIP, the control wheels are turned vertically, just to break through the ice. Ohio doesn't have that.
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Archerfish_(SSN-678)
              1. Avior
                Avior 11 November 2019 06: 51
                -1
                The possibility of using rudder rudders in principle during ice passage was discussed.
                Chopping rudders reduce the ability of nuclear submarines to break through ice, so I only welcome their installation on Columbia

                no, they’re just put upright, they help cut through the ice.

                to be exact, didn’t I think up the possibility of turning the rudders.
                Not discussed at all Ohio- see above.
                So there is such an opportunity, I haven’t invented it, and such a technology was available to both Americans and the USSR.
                Therefore, if necessary, they will apply it.
                I do not see a subject for dispute.
                hi
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 11 November 2019 06: 55
                  +3
                  Quote: Avior
                  The possibility of using rudder rudders during the passage of ice was discussed.
                  to be exact, didn’t I think up the possibility of turning the rudders.
                  Not discussed at all Ohio- see above.
                  SSBN was discussed, and as an example the strike nuclear submarine is given, therefore the example is not absolutely correct.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 11 November 2019 07: 02
                    -1
                    The placement of rudders on the wheelhouse was discussed.
                    but, if you decide what was discussed, wedged into the dialogue, I will not interfere.
                    argue.
                    but without me.
                    I already wrote everything.
                    hi
          2. Avior
            Avior 11 November 2019 05: 39
            -1
            https://topwar.ru/133178-fakty-o-samom-strashnom-oruzhii-na-zemle-bumery.html
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 11 November 2019 06: 11
              +2
              In the article, the photo in the ice is not "Ohio", but the same "Sturgeon"!
              1. Avior
                Avior 11 November 2019 06: 51
                0
                this is to the author of the article
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 11 November 2019 06: 55
                  +3
                  You brought the article.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 11 November 2019 06: 59
                    -1
                    what?
                    I could write that I did not write that this is Ohio, but the question is broader-
                    you argue in vain in my opinion
                    I don't see the point in this argument
                    the whole conversation was not about Ohio
                    hi
                    1. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 11 November 2019 07: 08
                      +3
                      The whole conversation was about the promising Columbia SSBN, the Ohio SSBN is also, and you, as an example of rotary rudders, brought the strike nuclear submarine. Yes, this is a reason to close the dispute.
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 11 November 2019 07: 13
                        -1
                        `1. You, forgive me, interfered with other people's communication here at this place
                        Quote: Avior
                        they are simply placed vertically, they help cut through the ice

                        Have you come up with? laughing

                        in which it is clear and understandable that we are talking about depth rudders on the wheelhouse, in principle, and not with respect to the boat.
                        And you undertook to teach me what the conversation is not about with you.
                        2. There are generally three photos there, except for a comic one, if you have not noticed.
                        hi
                      2. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 11 November 2019 07: 20
                        +2
                        Actually Andrey answered me, you got in. And so yes, as an example, I saw the domestic Squid, or Dolphin, and he is SSBN.
                      3. Avior
                        Avior 11 November 2019 07: 24
                        -1
                        Sorry, but you already intervened in my dialogue with him, after his answer with an explanation of what we are talking about.
                        I haven’t written anywhere that it’s about Plarb or Ohio, or something else, purely about wheel controls in principle.
                        He did not believe me that it was possible, I brought some photos to illustrate how it looks.
                        that's all
                      4. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 11 November 2019 07: 34
                        +2
                        Do not consider this post a continuation of the argument. In a nutshell about the promising Amer SSBN, she has no need for difficulty with steering wheels, when they have a fleet under the ice, unlike our SSBNs, she does not need to climb at all. That is my opinion.
                      5. Avior
                        Avior 11 November 2019 08: 09
                        +1
                        I completely agree with you, this is clearly not necessary for them.
                        For multi-purpose, if the wheels are put on the wheelhouse - this is necessary, it is clear why.
                        hi
        2. Operator
          Operator 11 November 2019 10: 39
          +1
          Quote: Avior
          Archerfish (SSN-678) pops up

          Firstly, this is called turning (and not folding) the rudders, and secondly, it reduces (and does not eliminate) the capabilities of the nuclear submarines in terms of the thickness of the ice being opened - which I mentioned.
          1. Avior
            Avior 11 November 2019 14: 52
            0
            I did not write that this is folding.
            And does not reduce
            1. Operator
              Operator 11 November 2019 15: 02
              +2
              Sorry - you really wrote "put".

              The transfer of force to the knot of rotation of the cutting rudders significantly reduces the thickness of the cracked ice. The photo shows the structure of the cover raised by the submarine with chopping rudders - most of the snow / less ice

              1. Avior
                Avior 11 November 2019 15: 10
                0
                The wheels just cut through a narrow strip. Look at the photo.
                And the American strategists just don't need it
    2. Avior
      Avior 11 November 2019 02: 45
      -1
      and even from under the asphalt laughing
  14. Operator
    Operator 11 November 2019 15: 11
    +2
    Quote: Avior
    American strategists just don't need it

    "The grapes were green" (C)