The mass of the first prototype IL-112В transport aircraft was reduced by a ton

The mass of the first prototype of the IL-112В light transport aircraft was reduced by one ton; work in this area continues. This was reported by the press service of PJSC Il.

The designers of Ilyushin reduced the weight of the first prototype of the Il-112В transport aircraft by one ton due to the use of new materials and modified equipment. Work on reducing weight is carried out at the VASO manufacturing plant in consultation with the Ministry of Defense. After completion, the aircraft will return to flight tests.

The aircraft implemented solutions to optimize take-off mass, which allowed to reduce the weight of the structure by more than a ton. This was achieved through the use of composite materials, improving systems and equipment of the aircraft

- said in a statement.

Earlier in Ilyushin it was reported that during the refinement, in agreement with the Ministry of Defense, the mass of the light transport aircraft Il-112В will be reduced by 2 tons. For this purpose, some units are being replaced on the aircraft and minor changes are made to the internal structure of the aircraft. In particular, the ramp and the doors of the cargo hatch are being replaced, work is underway to reduce the composition of the navigator's workplace, etc. At the same time, work is carried out immediately on all four aircraft.

Light military transport turboprop aircraft Il-112V is created for replacement in the transport aviation An-26 and An-24 aircraft, whose resource will soon be exhausted. The aircraft is the first developed from scratch in Russia, work has been ongoing since 2014. Designed for transportation of military personnel, military equipment, various types of weapons and other goods. The carrying capacity is 5 tons, the flight range is 5 thousand km, the aircraft is able to land and take off from unpaved airfields.

The first flight of the aircraft made 30 March this year.

Comments

[Nycomed]

Well done! If only it had no effect on the carrying capacity and flight data of the aircraft.

[210ox]

Weight reduction? Of course it will. He can take more on board.

[figwam]

Quote: 210ox

He can take more on board.

It would be nice if the Il-112 took on board the Tiger armored car.

[Observer2014]

Quote: figvam

IL-112V

Good. If the weight and dimensions fit.

In particular, the ramp and the doors of the cargo hatch are being replaced, work is underway to reduce the composition of the navigator’s workplace, etc.

What does this mean for the latest aircraft? When they designed it, they knew the task? Or is it not a new plane? And cobbled together from previously made planes? And when they did it. It turned out that it wasn’t suitable for those missions of defense mines? And now customize new!!! An airplane under the requirement of ordering defense mines? Where have you seen such upgrades in a newly designed airplane for those tasks? Is it that a new generation fighter that designers are walking on an unknown road?
I then wondered. Googled. And hallelujah googled!

No wonder. Who commanded the parade! Who?!

[Souchastnik]

No wonder. Who commanded the parade! Who?! laughing

Who cares, look on the Internet, in the Ministry of Industry and Trade, most of the leaders after the academies are deputy general directors, general directors, heads of departments of the ministry right away. ZMO Krivoruchko is an effective manager. The Kalashnikov Concern raised its knees, as it became the holder of a large stake.

[TANKISTONE]

https://yandex.ru/video/preview?filmId=5903432321849329225&text=%D1%82%D1%8B%20%D0%B6%D0%B5%20%D1%8D%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82%20%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE&text=%D1%82%D1%8B%20&noreask=1&path=wizard&parent-reqid=1573299267044700-148591315855504411300130-man1-1462&redircnt=1573299272.1

[78bor1973]

Designing is a rather complicated process, from the parts that are in production, you need to mold the product and then modify it and, in particular, reduce the weight, and if the designers are still doing this for the first time, then it takes longer than we would like to “modify it with a file”!

[Stas157]

I was always interested in the question.
In what characteristics is the Il112 superior to the An-26 and An-140? (This is despite the fact that Il has a new, more powerful engine.)
Anyone answer?

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Stas157

Me always interested in the question

Have you always been banned in google too? Engineer

[Stas157]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Have you always been banned in google too? Engineer

Hi Kisul! For a long time did not react to me! What happened ?? Did you get sick?

If for you the answer to the question is so simple and obvious, then answer me, without sending resources! And then it looks corny like a sketch.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Stas157

it looks corny like a sketch

No, I was just amused that it "always" interested you.

At the same time, for this "always" you have never bothered to read at least something on the topic ... but then you ask "like clever questions" here .. in-same-ner

[Stas157]

Quote: Golovan Jack

you never for this "always" didn't bother read at least something on the topic ... but ask here "crazy questions".. in-same-ner

Kisul! I understand there will be no answer, just edification? Tie flood then!

[svd-xnumx]

I was always interested in the question.
In what characteristics is the Il112 superior to the An-26 and An-140?

The IL112 will be "finished" and it will fly, and the Academy of Sciences in Russia will soon develop a resource and become a joke. And there is no new place to come from.

[Stas157]

Quote: svd-xnumx

IL112 will be "finished" and it will fly

I have no doubt about that. But the question was something else. About ALREADY doped aircraft. I personally see only one advantage of the new aircraft, this is an increased cross section of the cargo compartment. But I would like more advantages for the latest aircraft in the 21st century.

[avg avg]

Excuse me, please, of the dense Russian designers! But gravity caps have not yet been invented, and there are big problems with the new physical principles for creating lift.

[TermNachTer]

There is simply no point in talking about An - 26. He is years old and there is no memory. The difference is that the An - 140 was originally passenger, it was later converted into a military-technical cooperation. But the main difference is that there is a rework on An - helicopter TV - 3 - 117. But in order to twist the pulling screw, we put the gearbox from the shaft that goes back. The weight and dimensions are much larger, which means aerodynamics are worse, fuel consumption is greater. But this is so, very briefly ...

[Stas157]

Quote: TermNachTER

fuel consumption more

According to Wikipedia, less.

An-140 with a fuel reserve of 4440 kg: 1 km with a maximum load of 300 tons (no ramp)
IL-112 with a fuel reserve of 5760 kg: 1200 km with a maximum load of 5 tons
An-26 with a fuel reserve of 4850 kg: 1 km with a maximum load of 100 tons (there is a ramp)

IL-112 clearly does not shine characteristics. I will be glad if you correct me. Only objectively and in numbers.

[TermNachTer]

Have you personally measured kilograms, kilometers, etc.? I can draw you such tsifirki that you sob. Find on Wikipedia the photos of the An - 140 and Il -112 engines, then there is no need to explain anything further. Although, I’ll clarify one detail. TV - 7 - 117 - axis - centrifugal compressor - 7 steps, TV - 3 - 117 - axial compressor - 12 steps. TV - 7 - 117 - shorter, lighter, more powerful, specific fuel consumption less. Where did you get your tsifirki, I don’t know - probably the source was Banderlogovsky?

[Stas157]

Quote: TermNachTER

You personally measured kilograms, kilometers, etc.? I can draw such numbers for you that you sob.

Why are you so keen on this? I didn’t mean to offend you.

Quote: TermNachTER

Where did you get your tsifirki, I don’t know - probably the source was Banderlogovsky?

I indicated the source. Can you refute these figures? And the fact that the IL-114 has a new and more powerful engine, I wrote about it myself above.

[TermNachTer]

I was not at all offended, just, having worked for many years in the police, I believe only in what I saw myself or in the iron material evidence. I saw the "Motor" engine myself and even touched it with my hands, asked questions to people. I only read about Russian, but people say that Russian is better, for the reasons listed above.

[Vladimir1155]

the task is complex, quite wide (to fit the car) and short ... but made worse by massive protrusions for the chassis ... I think it was necessary not to try to shorten the long IL 76, and use the arrangement of the BE200 engines, but it’s low-wing, then the chassis would be removed into the wings, the plane could be narrower, and therefore aerodynamically better ...... the chief designer there is not an inventor, but a copyist

[Svetlana]

>>>> When did they design the task they knew? <<
Do you think that they designed without it? From the flashlight?

[boriz]

"Where have you seen such upgrades on an aircraft redesigned according to those instructions?"
Why are you surprised? In 1994. there was not enough money for this plane. In 2004. IL won the competition for characteristics, but some clever guy in the MO decided that the MO needed NA. Another 15 years have passed. The CEOs probably cared about their salaries, but what about the designers? Or should they, like a staunch tin soldier, wait all their lives, dying of hunger, for their beloved country to remember them? Therefore, in 25 years, those who are older - have retired / died, those who are younger - have done something else, more money. As a result, yesterday's graduates are probably sitting there. We still need to make constructors from them. And this takes time and someone who can do it. CEO, what will he do? So they are all "effective managers". Rogozin alone is worth something (both son and father). They can only bend their fingers like a fan and cut financial flows.
So, your perplexity is just strange.
And this will continue if those who made a mess of the 90s do not answer, if you don’t attract the general who decided the question in favor of an airplane of an unfriendly country (2004 is just the year of Maidan-1).

[Timx]

Exactly! You very accurately described the situation, which, incidentally, is characteristic not only of the defense industry, but also of all types of activity in our country. I myself regularly talk about this, but each time I meet surprised comrades (as if they were in some kind of fictional world) ...

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: 210ox

Weight reduction? Of course it will. Will be able to take more on board

There is a ton left to "save" ... It is not at all easy on an airplane of this size and weight. I think they will manage ... But henceforth science will ... observe weight discipline ... Science is expensive. Deadlines are missed, penalties ...

[Marconi41]

Quote: 210ox

Weight reduction? Of course it will. He can take more on board.

A ton is not enough. On assignment, the aircraft should be two lighter. That is why the Moscow Region is in no hurry to accept it.

[avg avg]

And where should the MO take it? Do you have at least some ideas about the design and manufacturing cycle of an airplane? Including the procedure for passing the machine tests and presenting it to these same tests?

[Marconi41]

Quote: avg avg

And where should the MO take it?

I’m not an aviator, of course, but I didn’t invent anything. After the first test flight, the MO itself announced claims for this aircraft. And the main remark was precisely an advantage by 2 tons regarding the Assignment. This was colorfully told simply on Voronezh TV. I was just there on vacation.

[Bar2]

The mass of the first prototype IL-112В transport aircraft was reduced by a ton
Today, 10: 58

in general, there is nothing to rejoice from such a presentation of information. Due to which the mass of the aircraft is reduced, due to the decrease in strength? Then this approach is not acceptable, because it is a military aircraft and structural strength is the most important thing in military technology. If the structural strength of the aircraft remained at the same level, then you can praise.

[RUSS]

Quote: Bar2

Due to what the mass of the aircraft is reduced, due to the decrease in strength?

The Russian government has approved a comprehensive plan to reduce the weight of the promising Il-112 military transport aircraft. The first prototype, which began the cycle of airfield tests at the Voronezh aircraft plant, turned out to be too heavy. Yes, we overweight the aircraft. There are objective reasons for this - a change of generations of designers has taken place in the aviation industry. Replenishment was weak, technical universities lost their popularity. As a result, a serious question was raised this year that the aircraft does not meet the tactical and technical specifications - in particular, the transportation of five tons at a distance of 1200 kilometers to a third-class airfield, - said Nikolay Talikov, chief designer of Il PJSC. His words are quoted by "Red Star".

A comprehensive plan to reduce the weight of IL-112 provides for a change in secondary structures that do not affect strength, the introduction of composite materials.

- We do not touch the load-bearing structure. And we perform all three main parameters - range, carrying capacity and airfield category. Only the very first car, "one", will remain in the increased weight category, ”Talikov explained.

[dauria]

Replenishment was weak, technical universities have lost popularity.

And the general for what? To state that he has an ass in the KB? In the USSR, and not such "bloopers" were. The war between the overweight Tu-14 and the "illegitimate" Il-28 was such that the dust was a pillar. Tupolev used all his "relatives". Stalin had to decide the question.
It is not the young people who are to blame, the system is asking for bricks. All over the face.

[Nycomed]

Yes, it was, both two or two doors to the Kremlin were almost opened with a foot ...

[dauria]

Sometimes it is striking - under that "totalitarian" system, there were strong people with characters. And now, from top to bottom, the parquet shuffling for the upper ones "what do you please, your excellency?" and a formidable roar on the bottom "go out, fired"


§ 1 Materials on violation of “NLP” by the leading test pilot Yu. V. Kurlin should be sent to the flight inspection of the Ministry to decide on the possibility of further use of Yu. V. Kurlin for flight work.
§2 Lead test engineer Yu.M. Kirzhner from his post to remove and use at the discretion of the personnel department of the plant.
diagonally in large letters in red pencil the following resolution is drawn:
“I have authorized flights on the An-14 plane with passengers and landings on sites selected from the air, and will continue to allow them. You can use me at the discretion of the personnel department. Antonov. "

[Rzzz]

So that - ANTONOV. Where to find such great people now?

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Bar2

The mass of the first prototype IL-112В transport aircraft was reduced by a ton
Today, 10: 58

in general, there is nothing to rejoice from such a presentation of information. Due to which the mass of the aircraft is reduced, due to the decrease in strength? Then this approach is not acceptable, because it is a military aircraft and structural strength is the most important thing in military technology. If the structural strength of the aircraft remained at the same level, then you can praise.

That's due to what they will reduce the mass of IL-112V.

in order to reduce weight, some devices and installations will be involved. So, according to the agency, the production of a new ramp and a hatch for the cargo hatch is currently launched.
It is planned that some lightweight units are likely to be installed in the machines at the end of the test activities. In addition, it is planned to reduce the weight of the aircraft by reducing the composition of the navigator's workplace.

https://riafan.ru/1194625-stalo-izvestno-kak-umenshat-ves-il-112v-na-dve-tonny

Reducing the weight of the aircraft will be achieved through optimization of the design, modernization of equipment, as well as the use of composite materials. Weight loss measures will be implemented on the third and fourth machines, which are now laid in production

https://aviation21.ru/kompozity-pozvolyat-snizit-ves-il-112v/

By the beginning of May 2019, it was possible to reduce the weight of the aircraft by 2082 kg. Another 500 kg is planned to be removed during the modernization of the aircraft and the equipment complex, the transition to an electro-remote control system, optimization of the hydraulic system. This set of measures will allow you to get a reduction in aircraft weight by 2472 kg. All updates will be implemented on the next machine (0103), the appearance of which will fully correspond to all subsequent serial machines.
In addition to the design of the airframe, the TV7-117ST engine turned out to be somewhat overweight. Its developer - JSC "UEC-Klimov" must reduce the mass of the motor by 90 kg, the corresponding work is underway. Until the end of the test the mass of the engine will be reduced.

https://novosti24.su/il-112v-pohudeet-s-zapasom/

[The leader of the Redskins]

I don’t even want to remind how a couple of years ago everyone knocked together in unison over An 178, with its plates behind the pilot's cabin ...

[figwam]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

I don’t even want to remind you how a couple of years ago everyone unanimously fought over An 178

It’s one thing to reduce the overall weight of the aircraft, and another violation of the alignment of the aircraft like the ANA from 1.5 to 3 tons is a constructive miscalculation that may not be eliminated.

[The leader of the Redskins]

Eliminated. But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the miscalculation in general.

[mmaxx]

This is our tradition, ss. MIG-23 flew with a piece of iron kg 200 in the tail.

[Dude]

By the beginning of May 2019, it was possible to reduce the mass of the aircraft by 2082 kg. Still 500 kg it is planned to remove during the modernization of the aircraft and the equipment complex, the transition to an electro-remote control system, optimization of the hydraulic system. This set of measures will allow to reduce aircraft weight by 2472 kg. All updates will be implemented on the next machine (0103), the appearance of which will fully correspond to all subsequent serial machines.
In addition to the design of the airframe, the TV7-117ST engine turned out to be somewhat overweight. Its developer - JSC “UEC-Klimov” must reduce the mass of the motor by 90 kg, related work is underway. Until the end of the test the mass of the engine will be reduced.

Something I'm confused in the figures given Either I do not understand anything in arithmetic, or Mr. Talikov, or the journalist who wrote the article, a quote from which you quoted.
And what is hidden behind the words

... transition to an electro-remote control system, optimization of the hydraulic system ...

?

[SSR]

Quote: Bar2

Due to what the mass of the aircraft is reduced, due to the decrease in strength? Then this approach is not acceptable, because it is a military aircraft and structural strength is the most important thing in military equipment.

Why did you decide that only the strength of the aircraft?
I’ll tell you a secret, only high-pressure hoses and microwave cable systems and other cable-harness products can not only free up space but also mass, and there are many such things on the plane, even seats and seats can be facilitated.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Bar2

Due to what the mass of the aircraft is reduced, due to the decrease in strength? Then this approach is not acceptable.

Wasn’t there enough patience to read the article? Urgently needed to comment?

The designers of Ilyushin reduced the weight of the first sample of the Il-112V transport aircraft by one ton due to the use of new materials and modified equipment.

[Zaurbek]

There, probably, they changed me more than once ... they wanted to get on time. So they blinded, flew and are now finishing.

[dinis]

An interesting opinion, similar to the truth.

[antivirus]

haha another spoonful of balm ... for the cons

[mikle1999]

Sometimes it seems that it is easier to copy the An-24 of the 1959 sample, well, it can remotorize it. In the end, they managed to copy the B-29s, and here there is some kind of documentation and operational experience. But somehow it is too painfully sorry for all of this.

[Go_ga]

An-24 was created in Novosibirsk. Actually, the design bureau itself is Novosibirsk. Wikipedia look through. Do you propose to copy your own, dill?

[The leader of the Redskins]

I’m not dill, but ... since 1952, Antonov Design Bureau has been working in Kiev. And the An 24 aircraft was designed there. So read better you Wikipedia. And the fact that the design bureau was born in Novosibirsk is a fact, but only this fact does not give the right to intellectual property.

[Zaurbek]

Ukrainians did so with Saudi money

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Well done! If only it had no effect on the carrying capacity and flight data of the aircraft.

You are probably a little off topic.
All this mass reduction could be done at the design stage, but ...
But then there would be no bonus.
The premium to the designer goes for reducing the mass of the aircraft for each kilogram, and here the whole TON.
So these guys are fooling everyone.
I know all this because I myself work as an aircraft designer.

[Dikson]

And remove the latrine .. the plafond in the cabin is plastic and not glass to make .. what else is there? the heating system can be dismantled .. and if the navigator is put on a canvas belt, and not in a chair. then it’s still possible to lose half a ton of weight!

[210ox]

And if you also reset the navigator with his slide rule? Why is he needed ?. Just kidding ... but in fact we will fly on the Belomor map ..

[Dikson]

Yes, and I, to be honest, too .. I remembered the movie Pearl Harbor .. how they facilitated cars there ...))

[askort154]

210qu ...And if you also drop the navigator with its slide rule? What the hell is he for?

I remember that our teacher at the CSW had a favorite saying.
As long as the wind exists, navigators will be needed. Now he wouldn’t say that already. :

[210ox]

Yes, how can I tell you ... In civil aviation, it turns out that I don’t really need it ... But this is a military aircraft, here you can fly anywhere and land where there is only a flat platform ..

[swnvaleria]

and get pe-2

[IL-18]

Quote: swnvaleria

and get pe-2

By the way, in 1942, the Yak-6 with two M-11s was created. He carried half a ton for 900 km. Somehow in this direction we are quiet now.

[Den717]

Quote: Dikson

and if the navigator is put on a canvas belt, and not in a chair

It’s immediately obvious that the technical diploma was learned from the memoirs on the creation of the IL-2. Yes, they also gave birth with difficulty ...

[parkello]

normal load capacity of 5 tons ... what else do they want? As for composites, they did the right thing to increase their share in the design. I flew in childhood on An -2 with my father, so he was completely covered with an air base .. it was possible to make a hole in the wing with a finger, and nothing .. flew to himself and flew and jumped from them and flew into the mountains ... and any hole could be sealed if that. especially the new transportsman ... at least he takes more aboard than the D-10 Dakota. and this is his class, it’s kind of like. (I could be wrong, I’m not very on planes ..) but I like

[donavi49]

They want IL-112B to show the declared characteristics. The actual carrying capacity is about 3t, plus a strong shortage of range with the load. For the plane is overweight.

That makes it easier - to fit into the declared characteristics.

[parkello]

So I have nothing against the relief of the design. where it’s possible, of course, it’s better to lighten to the maximum. I just looked at what was stated and .. here I didn’t know that it does not reach the declared characteristics. And as it is written 5 tons, it seems quite to myself ... well, let them work on the weight. you will always be in time to close the project, and the plane can be very necessary in places, even as it is, although it does not suit everyone.

[Piramidon]

Quote: parkello

normal load capacity of 5 tons ... what else do they want?

It is also a reserve for the future. Typically, in a series the mass of aircraft grows due to the installation of various additional equipment.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: parkello

An -2 (...) covered by an air agent was

Percaglio. And "avisent".

D-10 Dakota

What is this "beast"?

[parkello]

Douglas S-47 Skytrain. We have them encoded as D-10 Dakota.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: parkello

with us they are encoded as D-10

What is this nonsense?

[parkello]

but how do I know what kind of nonsense? we have so-called ... somewhere it may be called differently.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: parkello

but how do I know what kind of nonsense? we are called that ..

Have the insane? Nude ...

somewhere it may be called differently.

Normal people don't call it that. English speakers call "Dakota", "DC-3", C-47, etc; we (normal) are called differently: "Dakota", "DC-3", "C-47" and so on. But no one (normal) has the designation "D-10".

[parkello]

from whom, what normal?

[Avis-bis]

Quote: parkello

from whom, what normal?

"The drain is read," as they say.

[Lord of the Sith]

With the same performance characteristics, reducing the weight of the aircraft is excellent.
Work, brothers!

[donavi49]

“Yes, we pulled the plane. There are objective reasons - in the aviation industry, a generational change of designers has taken place. Replenishment was weak, technical universities have lost popularity. And a young specialist came to us, looked around, learned a bit and went to the place where they pay more, ”the chief designer said.

According to Talikov, the developers "in many ways have missed the weight problem." “This issue was considered both with the military and at the level of the profile deputy prime minister of the Russian government. They approved a comprehensive plan to reduce the weight of the aircraft, ”said the specialist.


It is within the framework of this that they are trying to squeeze into the declared characteristics.

[Vladimir1155]

demagogy, but new development tools appeared, and generally blamed on young specialists, this is an attempt to hide their incompetence as managers, and the fact that experienced specialists weren’t cared for, the bosses grabbed and the old and young specialists didn’t get anything, people ran away, all this we saw everywhere and always

[donavi49]

Talikov was removed from his post for the design failure of IL-112V. Now this is perhaps the highest measure of responsibility, if no one was killed and there is no particular resonance.

Well, under Stalin, they would have acted differently. Or not. Here to recall the same Sylvanas. Another would be shot for intentional wrecking. But Kaganovich’s son-in-law. How to repress such a person. As a result, Shakhurin was able to disperse his design bureau and take off all this. And this is due to the fact that Sylvansky lost the coast and there was a local public outcry (the chief designer during working hours, he drives girls to restaurants at the state VIP ZiLke, and even drunk ZiLok broke) that reached Stalin.

[Potato]

Initially, they try to fix an unsuccessful design by trimming everything that is possible. Ahahaha. Talikov was right about the designers. Ilyushin - forgive us all ...

[Zaurbek]

And on the other hand, who will do it? In the beginning, they wanted to license a Canadian plane. Prior to that, they gave An140 carte blanche (by the way, it disappeared somewhere). Where do you get these engineers? So, by trial and error, and while learning .. but there are many lawyers and managers. You would also ask how much they are paid!

[Brodyaga19]

The potato specialist has no place here, scatter!

[Amateur]

the mass of the light transport aircraft Il-112V will be reduced by 2 tons.

Napilling?

[AU Ivanov.]

Not - Doping.

[Good_Anonymous]

Quote: Amateur

Napilling?

Peeling.

[Bar2]

Quote: Piramidon

Wasn’t there enough patience to read the article? Urgently needed to comment?
The designers of Ilyushin have reduced the mass of the first sample of the Il-112V transport aircraft by one ton due to the use of new materials and modified equipment.

and where is it written about the structural strength of the pyramidon?

[Kenxnumx]

Sweep and throw away empty bottles? And all sorts of different alignments and other tricky words that should have been laid in the project - how?

[Dikson]

A terribly ugly car .. The feeling that it was blinded from different elements of different projects .. Well, it was blinded, according to the recognition of the enterprise itself - anyhow ..

[donavi49]

MO then wanted its Spartan (so that the armored car could intermeddle), but smaller. So they did.

[mmaxx]

On the contrary. The car is beautiful and rational.

[Dikson]

The taste and color, as they say ..)) Rational - maybe .. And about beauty .. - "swollen" belly for roominess, hump on the back, rickety narrow planes with small motors and straight, hefty, like stuck from another car , keel ...

[mmaxx]

Fuselage for capacity. But the wing is technologically assembled as a whole. Then it closes with a zaliz. And not the console separately, the center section separately. Due to this, the fuselage is one barrel. And the capacity is good and technologically.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Dikson

The taste and color, as they say ..)) Rational - maybe .. And about beauty .. - "swollen" belly for roominess, hump on the back, rickety narrow planes with small motors and straight, hefty, like stuck from another car , keel ...

Worldview of a tenth grader with a pink pompom on a felt-tip pen.

[Dikson]

Yes, of course .. Sergey .. you are probably a great connoisseur of pompons and felt-tip pens .. it has always been that way .. Who among our great ones said that an ugly car will not fly? And you, the gentleman from Addis Ababa, confuse the worldview with aesthetic perception .. At least a hundred drawbacks slap ..) Here is the IL-76 - a beautiful airplane. Its power and solidity are visible .. And the present Il, with all its dubious qualities and childhood sores, looks like a humpbacked donkey .. It’s good if it is as unpretentious and hardy as this animal ..

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Dikson

Yes, of course .. Sergey .. you are probably a great connoisseur of pompoms and felt-tip pens .. it has always been that way .. (...) And you, Mr. Adis Ababa, confuse the worldview with aesthetic perception .. At least a hundred minuses slap ..)

Nonsense from beginning to end. Work on yourself, malcheg ...

[senima56]

Not true! The plane is beautiful. Just not painted yet. This is how all planes look "ugly" before painting!

[mikle1999]

It remains incomprehensible, have they reached the An-24/26 level? Or not yet? Or, on the contrary, surpassed?

[garri-lin]

So while it is not clear. Words have a lot of information. An 26 5500 like drove to 1200km. And with this it is not clear where the plans and intentions are and where the confirmed result is.

[Genry]

Quote: garri-lin

An 26 5500 like drove to 1200km.

IL-112 lighter class. Its maximum take-off weight is 21 tons, and the An-26 is 24 tons. Therefore, in terms of payload (5000 kg) it will be inferior to the An-26, but in range it will be much better, thanks to more efficient engines.

Quote: garri-lin

And with this it is not clear where the plans and intentions are and where the confirmed result is.

They will assemble a third aircraft at the beginning of 2021 and there will be a result.

[garri-lin]

Could more vividly voice info about the actual situation.

[mikle1999]

But as if 50 (fifty, Karl!) Years had passed. Radio stations became a little lighter, engines too, new materials appeared. It is logical to assume that the weight of the structure required to move the same load should decrease. What is the general idea of ​​making the plane WORSE AN-26? If it’s from homelessness, then it’s time to surrender to the West, and not try to resist it with technologies of half a century ago.

[mikle1999]

Amendment, and with an-24 and all 60 years.

[Genry]

Quote: mikle1999

with an-24 and all 60 years

Instead of the An-24, the Il-114 is launched, which, thanks to the "low-wing" layout, has more high flight characteristics, which translates into a 40% improvement in fuel efficiency. The Il-114 can replace the An-99 in almost 26% of cargo transportation, where the remaining 1% (even less) will be impossible to transport wheeled vehicles.

Quote: mikle1999

What is the general idea of ​​making the plane WORSE AN-26?

IL-112 will be no worse than An-26. Payload, when transporting wheeled vehicles, 5000kg. The An-26 has a weak floor, so the load on pallets or bulk could be 5500 kg, and the wheeled machinery was only 4200 kg and could only be loaded with additional floor coverings with boards and with a low height, such as an army jeep without a cabin (with the windshield folded down).
An-26 can be called a "transport worker" very tensely, since it very rarely transports transport equipment - it is a "truck", with incomprehensible and ineffective operation as a passenger.
The IL-112 was developed to meet the requirements of the military, for the cargoes that are most characteristic of their use, primarily: aircraft engines, helicopter blades, small wheeled vehicles or weapons (which is now done by half-empty IL-76). The An-26, with its elongated and narrow cargo compartment, is not capable of these tasks (except perhaps the blades).
There is still a huge difference in the chassis of aircraft. Il's narrow track with short landing gear allows you to sit on stripes with loose coating. The An-26 has widely spaced main landing gears, which, when touched with one wheel, lead to a strong turning moment ....

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Genry

Instead of the An-24, the Il-114 is launched, which, thanks to the "low-wing" layout, has more high flight characteristics, which translates into a 40% improvement in fuel efficiency.

In fact, the low wing has worse flight characteristics than the high wing. For example, his resistance is higher. Low wing wins only in the operational sense.

[Genry]

Quote: Avis-bis

In fact, the low wing has worse flight characteristics than the high wing.

Boeing and Watermelon so "agree" with you that they make planes to their detriment. Prompt at least one long-range (strategic, intercontinental) aviation with high-wing aircraft.
High planes are popular only where it is impossible to compose a low plane (transporters, hydro ...). In small aircraft it’s very convenient to make high-planes, but anyway, for some reason (in your opinion) they are tormented with low-planes.

Quote: Avis-bis

Low wing wins only in the operational sense.

Tell the military and special forces. They even install engines in the tail, just squeeze the characteristics. But they do not make them high plans.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Genry

Quote: Avis-bis

You really do not know about the An-124 and C-5?

It remains to compare them with the Boeing 747-8

Well, it remains, so compare. The time has gone.

Airbus-380-800

There is no such plane. There is an Airbus-380-800, there is an Airbus-380-800, there is an Airbus-380-800. But Airbas-380-800 is not. Learn the materiel.

If about airplanes at the price of a car - then this is a high plan.

Show me a "car" for the price of C-5 or "Mriya". And what is, by the way, "car"?

But it is worth taking into account flight performance and efficiency

It is profitability that is higher, all other things being equal, in a high-level organization. Malcheg, well, do not disgrace so cheaply, but ...

Best sellers

What is that word?

Cessna 421C Golden Eagle, Pilatus PC12, Beechcraft King Air, ...

Just, the "bestseller" from "Cessna" is not the C-421, but even the C-208 / -208B and other high-profile designs from this company. Learn materiel.

[Genry]

Quote: Avis-bis

There is no such plane. There is an Airbus-380-800, there is an Airbus-380-800, there is an Airbus-380-800. But Airbas-380-800 is not. Learn the materiel.

Ohhh, you speak different languages ​​.... Each nationality has its own pronunciation. Something you are not surprised at their difference and do not require a pure Anglo-Saxon pronons. We communicate in Russian (very far from English ...) and my Russian is also a different pronunciation.
And you are by chance not from Zhmerynka (Ukrainian)? They love to makat and mkat there - so their Polish pans taught to speak, like cattle.

Quote: Avis-bis

Show me a "car" for the price of C-5 or "Mriya". And what is, by the way, "car"?

You have a phenomenally short memory, or problems with logic. The paragraph was about small airplanes.
And again you forgot that the C-5 and your Mriya are transporters and it is impossible to make them according to the "low-wing" scheme because of the enormous costs of the long ramp and the complexity of high struts for heavy weight and the demands of the military for airfields. And their flight characteristics are much inferior to low-wing aircraft in the same weight category.

Quote: Avis-bis

It is profitability that is higher, all other things being equal, in a high-level organization. Malcheg, well, do not disgrace so cheaply, but ...

You girls should learn how to cook soups and not get into serious topics.

Quote: Avis-bis

What is that word?

You can’t answer on the topic - cling to the letters ...

Quote: Avis-bis

Just, the "bestseller" from "Cessna" is not the C-421, but even the C-208 / -208B and other high-profile designs from this company. Learn materiel.

You have decided that you can pronounce the name of the American company "in Zulu". In the USA they say "sesna" - how dare you deviate from your own principles. I'll check your reaction: "Airbus" ....
And the 208s were released ten times less than the An-2.
And yes, most cheap planes are low-speed high-wing planes with fixed gear. It is necessary to move to a more expensive segment, where the landing gear is retracted and the characteristics are better, we immediately see a low wing. And I don’t remember sporting high-ranking officials, because the requirements there are abrupt than those of the military.
And it’s not possible for you to understand that no materiel controls physics, but only bends under its laws.

[Timx]

This is not an easy class, and the lack of a suitable motor has led to the fact that for almost 30 years they have been trying to come up with a niche for this `` miracle '' of engineering.
Well, do not combine the carrying capacity of the An-32 with engines for 2500-2800 hp. no matter how hard you push, no matter how you blame the `` weak '' designers - so they will continue to cut the money until a decent engine appears.

[Town Hall]

Quote: TimX

so they will continue to cut the headstock until a decent engine appears.

Well, it means they will be sawing for a very long time

[Timx]

So already how much they saw something - the initial terms of reference were blinded even under Gorbachev .. in 1989, if memory does not change. So, they are not used to it)))

[Town Hall]

It is difficult for local comrades to understand that this is the payment that one has to pay when both hands vote for "... it is not necessary to close dying design bureaus and aircraft factories in the name of preserving some mythical competence for a brighter future .." For the sake of this bright future, these 30 years are already only sawing a budget with zero exhaust in the 100500th attempt to "modernize" projects 40 years ago

[Timx]

You seem to be saying everything correctly, but ... Here the example of the United States rises before your eyes, where for almost 40 years (from the early 60s to the late 90s) there was a stubborn struggle with small and stunted air companies (Curtis, Martin, Hughes, Grumman, North American, Fairchild and a dozen other lesser known even to air amateurs) by combining them with large and successful industry leaders. And what did they do in the end? 2-3 clumsy super-corporations with huge budgets, staffs of lawyers, marketers, managers and lobbies in the Senate and the White House .., devouring hundreds of billions annually, don't get it .. I don't know if we should definitely step on their rake; although observing what Messrs. Chemezov and Serdyukov are stubbornly leading us to, for them this `` rake '' is the main goal ..

[Town Hall]

The enlargement of aircraft manufacturing companies is an objective process related to the economy. This happened in Europe, not only in the USA. A small company cannot afford to spend $ 10 billion or euros on the same R&D and build aircraft worth 200/300/400 million for thing and most importantly, it is not able to provide a global network of their services. And without this, the aircraft is initially dead in a market sense.
In any case, the main difference is that in the USA all these firms are private and do not hang dead weight on the neck of the taxpayer.

[Timx]

All this, of course, is right and even necessary in the civilian sphere, but here they talked about military state programs, where, as the history of the same West showed, this approach leads to exactly the opposite results (well, neither the F-22, nor the EF -2000 Typhoon at own expense of air companies, and consequently, the other pluses of large corporations yielded nothing but extremely inefficient spending of state funds of their states by them).

[Town Hall]

And why should private air companies build military aircraft at their own expense? The state needs military planes, it pays for them. And R&D and construction. I don’t see honest connections between Lockheed, Boeing, Airbus and Ilyushin Design Bureau. The first planes are built hundreds of years a year and bring income to all participants of the process. The second-live on lordships without nothing for decades

[Timx]

You’re already arguing with yourself, I did not say a word about passenger airliners, we are discussing the Il-112 program here, and the Ilyushin Design Bureau in particular, which has not officially been engaged in commercial aviation for 20 years (after leaving the MC-21 and RRJ programs [the current Superjet] more in the early stages). So your comments are a bit wrong)))

[Town Hall]

You pulled into the topic of Boeing, Airbus, etc. whose main activity is civilian aircraft

[Timx]

And what, in the USA and Europe there are separate companies only for military programs? There is no Boeing and Airbus doing this, no? I believe this can already be stopped))) Have a good and good night!

[Avis-bis]

Quote: garri-lin

An 26 5500 like drove to 1200km

I didn’t carry it. At 1200km, the An-26 burns 2,9 tons, and the free tonnage is 8 tons. Well, with a violation of M, the max., Of course, can carry ...

[garri-lin]

Do not quite understand. It turns out 8 minus 2,9?

[Avis-bis]

Quote: garri-lin

Do not quite understand. It turns out 8 minus 2,9?

... and minus ANZ. In general, "5,5 tons per 1200 km" is unrealistic.

[garri-lin]

Now I understand. Thank.

[senima56]

That was reduced by a ton, good. We still need to look for reserves to reduce the mass by another ton ... Probably they will find it ... But tell me: how did the design bureau design the plane, that it turned out to be 2 tons heavier than the design weight ?! And who answered or paid for this "mistake" with his post? ...

[Jager]

Reading comments I understand how far commentators are far from development and production.
For example, a car, before getting onto the conveyor, is created in the amount of several dozen for various tests and subsequent modifications. And even then, after the approved reference sample is still modernized in the production process.
And even taking into account 3D modeling, there will be some flaws in ANY project.
Diesel locomotives, for example, are being developed by DECADES. New technologies, new tasks, a new approach to the subject - everything is changing and modernizing.
Except for Lenin. Ilyich - he is forever!

[Dikson]

Ilyich, are you talking about VL-80?

[Jager]

This is about my love of communism (irony).
And to replace the VL-80, we have long been going new electric locomotives. Although the design of the Vals I really like.
Take the same gas turbine locomotive GT-1h. The first car, the one it got out of the factory gate on its first day and the third number under construction now, they are infinitely far apart. Although the name is the same.

[Dude]

Reading comments I understand how far commentators are far from development and production.
For example, a car, before getting onto the conveyor, is created in the amount of several dozen for various tests and subsequent modifications.

To overweight the aircraft with a "carrying capacity" of 2 tons by 5 tons, while not reaching these 5 tons, and not achieving the planned range - this is very not a weak jamb of developers. And what the people of Ilyushin are trying to do now cannot be called "subsequent improvements"This is an attempt to fix very serious jambs. And what will happen in the process of relief, for example, with centering is a question. I was also strained by the phrases about" optimization of the hydraulic system "and" transition to an ESDU ".
The challenge is for designers.

[mmaxx]

Put on statics, smash back and forth. Stresses will reveal the actual. There will be information for thought and relief.
There are even such construction methods when a deliberately overweight structure is created, so that it can be reduced by real stresses in the structure. I’m not saying that it’s right, but it’s possible. Why not?
But I don’t envy the plant. Redo the whole plane.

[Dude]

There are even such construction methods when a deliberately overweight structure is created, so that it can be reduced by real stresses in the structure.

Yes, I do not argue. But it's one thing when we designed, say, a wing that was overweight, and, according to the test results, made it lighter. Or the chassis. But, judging by the list of what, according to the Civil Code, they are going to lighten the car, we are not talking about the design method, but about "removing the mass wherever possible."

[Timx]

Yes, this is not a jamb of developers, but 30 years of attempts to `` pull an owl on a globe. '' Replace the 3500-4000 hp engine. (which remained in pictures after the defeat of the Klimovsk company in the 90s) on a dead TV-7 (albeit twice already forced) for 2500-2800 hp. without reducing the characteristics of the aircraft. No such miracles have been registered in technology yet.

[Dude]

There, not only the circus you indicated took place to be But, for the sake of justice, everything is not so primitive / negative, don’t distort it.

[Timx]

And no one is distorting))) You’re just talking in the forehead that in the country for 30 years not a single new aircraft engine has been made, and therefore waiting for some breakthrough planes and helicopters is simply silly Is it really that hard to understand?

[Dude]

Unfortunately, over the past 30 years, nothing new at all. In addition to schemes and methods, as if to snatch even more in your pocket.

[Jager]

Even locomotives can overwhelm. The same GT-1h in the metal did not pass according to the weight standards of the axle load. Engineers torn to the British flag, but were able to rebuild it and reduce weight.
Locomotive! And then the plane)) Experienced machines are created for this purpose, in order to exclude problems with serial ones in their experience. And then the first plane was made and that’s all, everything was lost - there is no alignment, the developers are solid birdies, the project is unsuccessful, etc.
Make a series - then we'll see.

[Dude]

Even locomotives can overwhelm.

Let's make a series, see, cry, and cut into metal, do you suggest that? And, yes, judging by the results, the developers, quite possibly, "PTUsniki".

[Jager]

Do you know how to read, or so, between the lines? The experimental series is called EXPERIENCE. To eliminate to the mass series all the comments.
Can you imagine how MUCH the same experienced diesel locomotives were created and cut right there in the same USSR? To create such that now 40 years work without interruptions.

[Al_lexx]

Everything is cool, but the chassis is liquid for a military transporter. Or it seemed to me?
How will he sit on the primer with such rollers at full load? About take-off, under the same conditions and even more so in silence. He burrowed into the ground.
Correct me, who is in the subject. I will be glad.

[Dude]

It seemed. Normally there with the chassis. Or did you want a three-axle main strut?)) Too much. Moreover, this is still the first flight.

[Vladimir1155]

Can it be used as a very necessary PLO aircraft? aircraft mines?

[ezdiumno ru]

It's time to release a new transporter. An-26 and 26 have long been outdated.

[Rzzz]

And what about the information about jambs with balancing, and the fact that the plane flies with ballast? Did you decide this somehow?

[cat Rusich]

In the USSR, designers worked on drawing boards and counted on "scores" and we (the USSR) flew into space ... Today everyone is obsessed with "digital" (computers) and "miscalculations" began in the design ... When a "designer" without "experience "(brain)" digit "(computers) does not help (the computer does not" work "for the" constructor "). Hope for "digital", but think with your own head ...

[donavi49]

Well, the USSR also had problems. And the same. The top design bureaus rowed the most promising ones even from the university, giving hands to any other smaller ones. Like where you climb, Tupolev has already written out this young specialist.

As a result, small design bureaus experienced staff shortages and extremely low staff training. From which they usually bent even on a layout or purge. Less commonly on pilot flights.

Also IL. What is Talikova to do? He has a staff of grandfathers in retirement. There is a young replenishment. But the design bureau is poor and without special prospects. The best go to practice in Irkut, Sukhoi. Where the double salary and employment record will well influence the further move to Arbuzik or AVIC. As a result, those who went to normal design bureaus did not take to Il. Plus, an extremely bad story happened there. When IL-112В was frozen once again, Irkut puffed with forcing the MS-21 and bought out specialists. As a result, a whole department of sternists in full force moved to Irkut for almost three times a lot of money.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: cat Rusich

In the USSR, designers (...) counted on the "accounts"

On the rulers.

[G. Georgiev]

... even a ton less, and the plane will be able to board my son’s toy box.

[G. Georgiev]

.... And the REB system, protection against shells. is there .. Vitebsk?

[grumbler]

There was an article (unfortunately I sowed a link), where representatives of the design bureau admitted that the car was made by "young, inexperienced" designers who replaced the old staff. Allegedly, they overweight many parts (which is a typical mistake for inexperienced / poor engineers - they do not know how to calculate trusses, use thin-walled shells, stiffeners, honeycomb structures, caissons, supporting bodies (this is really an art, given the conflicting requirements for cyclic and shock loads, vibrations, fatigue, corrosion, etc.) And strength is achieved using heavier monolithic parts. This is where weight is gained on each part. Partial "loss of competence"? - you may have to learn to design aircraft again.

[Piramidon]

Quote: parkello

Douglas S-47 Skytrain. We have them encoded as D-10 Dakota.

At "you", this is, excuse me, where? Here we have never heard of the D-10. Its variants are DC-3, C-47, PS-84, Li-2 ... Maybe you confused it with DC-10, but this is from a completely different "opera"