Stalin's industrialization was called "not much cooler" Putin

When considering the economic indicators of Russia and the Soviet Union, it is customary to compare industrial processes then and today. In most cases, experts admit that the industrial breakthroughs of the Soviet Union, primarily the Stalin era, were so overwhelming that they could not even come close to those in modern Russia under any circumstances.

Meanwhile, on the well-known YouTube channel Time Forward! They decided to compare Stalin's and Putin's industrializations, trying to show that today's rates of commissioning of new large enterprises are also high.

The following facts are cited as a kind of proof: at the Novovoronezh NPP a month earlier, the 2-th innovative power unit based on the VVER-1200 reactor was commissioned; in Perm, a platform was opened for the production of RD-191 rocket engines for 2 billion rubles; in the Leningrad region, the production of drive equipment for 2,5 billion rubles was opened, in Omsk - a solar power station, in the Kursk region - a pig farm for 69 thousand heads.

Further, the authors of the video ask: "Whose industrialization is cooler?"

Noting that it is pointless to compare epochs and indicators, “Time and Go!” Is nevertheless taken for such a comparison. It is stated that during the first 13 years of Soviet industrialization, about 9 thousand plants and industrial facilities (together with reconstructed ones) were built. In Russia, as the authors note, over the 7 years, the opening of approximately 3 thousand new production has been documented.

From the material:

On average, we lag behind the pace of Stalinist industrialization not so dramatically: we build 428 objects per year instead of 692.

The video itself with the final conclusions:

Comments

[Svarog]

Further, the authors of the video ask: "Whose industrialization is cooler?"

What kind of nonsense .. Stalin and Putin can’t even be put next to ..
In modern Russia, the volume of the corruption market exceeds 240 billion dollars. According to the estimates of the INDEM fund, this value is even higher: only in the business sphere of Russia the volume of corruption increased between 2001 and 2005. from about 33 to 316 billion per year (9,6 times)
a) The national income per capita of the USSR was ($, in 1980 prices):
1913 g. - 350 (15% of US level)
1920 g. - 120 (5%)
1929 g. - 365 (13%)
1938 g. - 640 (24%)
1950 g. - 1100 (26%)
in 1987 - 3900 (57% of US level), that is, under Stalin, it was possible not only to completely restore the level of citizens' well-being after 3's destructive wars and multiply it several times, but, despite the wars, 2 times overtake Americans in growth rates. And this in the most difficult external conditions and without any help, whereas, for example, by 1913, the share of foreign capital (French, Belgian, English and German) in investments in the Russian economy reached 72%.
For comparison, in the 2007 year, the level of GDP per capita, calculated at purchasing power parity, Russia amounted to 28% of the US level. That is, compared to the Americans, we have degraded 20 for about 2 years - and this is without any wars!
Social labor productivity in 1950 increased in comparison with 1913 in 3,2 times.
b) Total industrial output per capita for 1913-1950. in the USSR increased by 4 times. The share of world industrial products of the USSR:
1913 - 3,6%
1920 - 0,6%
1938 - 5,6%
1950 - 6,9%
1986 - 14,6%
In 2007, Russia's share in world GDP is 3,2%.
Growth in the production of agricultural products by 1938 was + 45% compared to 1913 and + 100% compared to 1920.
c) It is interesting to compare the economic decline during the war period 41-45 and in the period 1990-2010.
1940 year - 100%
1945 year:
Industry - 92% (8% drop)
- production of capital goods - 112%
- production of consumer goods - 59%
National income - 83%
Fixed assets - 88%
Investments - 90%
And what is the fall rate over the past 20 years? Here it is (1990 - 100%):
2000 year:
GDP: 65,1%
Production: 52,5%
Investment: 26,1%
2010 year:
GDP: 103%
Production: 77,1%
Investment: 56,8%
As the saying goes, the verdict is obvious. 20 years of reign of irresponsible power were much worse than the Nazi occupation.

[GKS 2111]

Quote: Svarog

What kind of nonsense .. Stalin and Putin can’t even be put next to ..

Heaven and earth. Agreed. And now, too, is industrialization going on? It’s invisible somehow, if the plants are closing more and not being built ...

[Lexus]

Heaven and earth. I agree.

All the "neoplasms" that appeared after the collapse of the Soviet Union are nothing more than maggots in the body of the deceased KIT. No matter how much they gobble up, they will not be more than he. And numerous kings are just dust from the boots of GENERALISSIMUS STALIN. There is not even anything to compare.

[Cut Samshitov]

Like in that movie: - I'm a straightforward, rude person, so I’ll be honest: you are a genius !! Clearly licked.

[Ehanatone]

"I'm a straightforward, rude person, so I'll be honest: you are a genius !!
In order to increase self-formation:
Did I miss something:
Do not specify pzhlst - who licked the kaama, why it is necessary to expose, otherwise it was bewildered as it were - like an atomic ahlikharka, but someone had already managed to lick terribly everything from head to toe ...
"I am a direct person, rude" - nevertheless, in the last word it would be necessary to replace the letter "b" with the letter "l", so you will probably be more correct ...

[New Year day]

Quote: GKS 2111

Is industrialization going on now?

do not scold the agitator, he forgot the prefix "de-"

[WIKI]

Quote: GKS 2111

Heaven and earth. I agree.

Yes, in general, it makes no sense to compare the activities of these two leaders with billions, tons, square meters. Tsarist Russia was an agrarian country in 1913. 85% of the working-age population was employed in agriculture. The main task of Stalin was to radically change the agrarian system to an industrial one. To do this, it was necessary to train the illiterate population migrating from village to city. In 2000, Putin got an industrial country, with a share of agricultural workers of 13% of the total number of people employed in the economy. The tasks that confronted Stalin were not comparable with Putin's.

[257950]

To what extent was it easier for Stalin to have a powerful administrative resource behind him, and Putin didn’t make porridge for this liberal resource

[g1v2]

The original goal of Stalin's industrialization was to restore what was destroyed during the Civil War, when 80 percent of industry perished. If you remember, in all films and speeches the achievements of the USSR were compared with 1913. It was the peak of tsarist Russia, to which the USSR could only reach after 20 years at the cost of great hardships and sacrifices. We had a similar situation. During the 90s and the collapse of the USSR, 100 percent of industry throughout the country suffered. All production chains were broken. Finances were defeated. All zero we tidied up what was destroyed during the new civil war of the 90s and the collapse of the Union.
Which industrialization is cooler? Well, of course, the scale of the Stalinist. That's just Putin did not require the repression of millions of people, mass executions and forced labor of other millions of people. It can be much slower, but much more comfortable for the population.

[WIKI]

Quote: g1v2

It was destroyed during the civil war, when 80 percent of the industry perished.

About death, it's you too much. "The domestic market was dominated by foreign companies. The Russian economy was severely affected by the First World War, and then by the October Revolution of 1917. The economic growth rate turned negative, a significant part of industrial capital was destroyed." This is not about the physical destruction of enterprises, but about the fact that financial capital has left the country.

Quote: g1v2

It was the peak of tsarist Russia, to which the USSR could only reach after 20 years

About 20 years you also turned down. "In 1928, per capita GDP was about the same as in 1913. Then the growth rate of the Russian economy accelerated significantly, as did the growth of investment."

Quote: g1v2

During the 90s and the collapse of the USSR, 100 percent of industry throughout the country suffered. All production chains were broken. Finances were defeated.

If the head is not enough, then you can break anything. When Primakov_ Maslyukova, as it all miraculously worked.

Quote: g1v2

Which industrialization is cooler?

Putin's industrialization is particularly characterized by the fact that the budget is 43% dependent on oil and gas. Whereas in the USSR it was 6%.

[ochakow703]

“But Putin's didn’t demand repression of millions of people, mass executions and forced labor of other millions of people.”
Perhaps you are right, but if you take into account how many beggars have become as a result of Putin's "industrialization", how many people died from vodka and hopelessness, how many got into the noose. And believe me, not all of them were drunks and quitters. We only shout from the screen about the social orientation of the state. In fact, the landmark is completely different - a small handful of state thieves fill their pockets, and the rest of the people eats up without salt.

[g1v2]

Are you sure you are not talking about the 90s? Over the past 20 years, I have not seen anything like it. And about how the population lives now, the numbers speak best. In 2018, the Russian population spent $ 32 billion on personal and tourist trips abroad. This does not include business travel. This amount is equal to the entire export of our gas for the same year. How much the country earns from gas exports, so many citizens are exported to Turkey, Egypt, Georgia, the EU and so on. Including countries of the former USSR.
Over the years, citizens have more than 2 times more cars. Chain stores are crowded with people, housing is being built and bought up at a frantic pace. Well, everyone loves to complain.
In the 90s in St. Petersburg, all trash bins were constantly surrounded by pensioners. As early as 15 years, I have not seen a pensioner delving into the trash or collecting bottles. If someone told me in the 90s that pensioners can stupidly eat sausage and meat, then I would laugh at this tale. Senior citizens? Meat? Now my parents eat quite normally and live separately on their pensions. Mother also works, PM manages to travel around the world.
It didn’t happen by itself. There was no old Hottabych. What time - and everything has changed. I remember too well the late 80s and 90s and I understand that it was Uncle Vova who pulled us out of this pit.
Now various silly women laugh over ukrami and point fingers at dill. Why laugh it? Everything was the same with us. It was just that Uncle Vova came to power, but they don’t. And so in the 90s they lived even better than us.
Well, about the thieves. The population simply does not understand the order of the numbers. Ulyukaev was taken for a bribe of $ 2 million. It's a lot. Such officials who could steal or receive something like that - well, if there are a thousand per country. Others stupidly have no access to such money. What is $ 2 million for a government? This is exactly half a tank. Let's say this thousand steals 2 million a year. Okay, let it be 5 million. Walk, so walk. It will be $ 5 billion a year. We receive over $ 200 billion from hydrocarbon exports every year. And practically all this money goes to the state. World Cup 18, rearmament of the army, large-scale projects, etc. - all this money. The YAMAL LNG project alone costs $ 26 billion in total. Against this background, $ 5 billion, which theoretically could be stolen by all officials who have access to large sums, are not noticeable at all. Tch stories about thieves who allegedly stole everything - this is a stupid explanation for the layman who does not understand the order of numbers and more complex explanations. But "plundered" is clear and accessible to everyone.

[Chit]

Yeah ... Beautifully stated.
Almost all the money from hydrocarbon exports, therefore, goes to the state?
May be...
But it may be that much more money has settled in offshore during the fat oil years.
But who will show us these numbers, right?

[user]

It can be much slower, but much more comfortable for the population.

Only during this time, little has changed in the country, well, the oligarchs have earned well. But in the country (if you do not take Moscow and St. Petersburg) what happened in the life of the common people and to whom it became comfortable? Although if you listen to the EP’s speech at the St. Petersburg forum, we have the lowest inflation in history and the unemployed are less than 1 percent.
Maybe he was talking about some other country, I just don’t understand?

[Far B]

I got too fucked up. Under Pitung, it turns out there was industrialization. Did I miss something ???

[Greg Miller]

Quote: GKS 2111

Quote: Svarog

What kind of nonsense .. Stalin and Putin can’t even be put next to ..

Heaven and earth. Agreed. And now, too, is industrialization going on? It’s invisible somehow, if the plants are closing more and not being built ...

I agree that "Putin's" industrialization is best compared with "Yeltsin's" ... Although under the last one there were at least 100 times less dollar billionaires from Russia ...

[demo]

Why so many words? Why numbers?
The current pygmies are power in the Kremlin, they know their worthlessness.
And their attempts, to be on a par with Gulliver, look funny and nasty.
And their tasks are different. Unlike Stalin.
Comparing the Sovereign, with Huckster - is not serious.

[Svarog]

Quote: demo

Why so many words? Why numbers?

This is for "believers" and those without knowledge ..

[demo]

Faith is the recognition of something true regardless of the factual or logical justification, mainly due to the very nature of the subject's relationship to the subject of faith.
If you rely on the classical wording, then you are absolutely right.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Svarog

This is for "believers" and those without knowledge ..

Vladimir - there are no more believers here. There are paid. Throw out as many facts as you like, they will repeat one thing. They are all God's dew.

[Svarog]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Quote: Svarog

This is for "believers" and those without knowledge ..

Vladimir - there are no more believers here. There are paid. Throw out as many facts as you like, they will repeat one thing. They are all God's dew.

Yes, I took in quotation marks

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Ingvar 72

throw out as many facts as you like

Kitty, dumped by you (though - not only by you, there are such a whole team) facts, as a rule, bring with them a distinct aroma of info-wash

[Tibidokh]

And besides dirt, can you contrast something with the one expressed above?

[Vlad.by]

This is the protocol of the secret meeting of the liberals stigmatizing the government laid out?
What have you done, except howling from the sofa?

[Tibidokh]

Quote: Vlad.by

meeting of liberals

Do you know who the main liberalist in the country is? Surprise right now ...

[Vlad.by]

That's why you are sausage here!
Liberal and liberal are different.
Putin is a liberal, from the word freedom. He is free from restrictions, in fact, like Stalin. With all its shortcomings, there are some, for example, a lack of decisiveness - he is a patriot who is trying to figure out the situation for 5-10 moves ahead. Yes, it is bound by the norms of universal morality. Therefore, we do not yet have the death penalty. Although it is high time, for some.
But you can bile come to naught as much as you like. Set cons, write “sultry-smart” comments. Welcome!
To me, and most of you in Russia are up to us!
Defecate in your circle. Even more correctly - inside your circle.
And, for Tibidoch and the like - not at all surprised by Peskov's words.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: demo

Comparing the Sovereign, with Huckster - is not serious.

Why can not you compare the "Putin" and "Stalin" industrialization
Production and business, industrialization and propaganda are two different things. And those an average of 428 facilities per year, where jobs at best under a hundred - a significant contribution to the treasury of the promised 25 million jobs. Populists, cynics and liars. One indicator of economic growth at 000% is worth ... Ugh ...
Tell us about power plants, about the created shipyards ... The country of banks, pharmacies, dental offices, massage parlors, hairdressers and shops ... Erase these Putin's achievements when the pension is enough to make ends meet ...

[freddyk]

Quote: ROSS 42

Erase these Putin’s achievements when pensions are enough to make ends meet.

If so. Not enough to make ends meet. Otherwise, pensioners would not work for us.

[Varyag71]

You forgot to write about the little pothouses yet. Sometimes in one house there are three pubs

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Svarog

Svarog

"Svarog", have you ever learned how to give a link to a source? And that turns out badly, plagiarism, you know ...

 USSR under Stalin. Facts only

https://pikabu.ru/story/sssr_pri_staline_tolko_faktyi_1080767

The source is pikabu ... I knew

Quote: Svarog

Stalin and Putin can’t even be put near ..

But you said that correctly. About the same as some thread George Washington - with trump

Different eras, "Svarog". But you are not interested in it, you know you muddy the water and collect pluses

[Doctor]

What kind of nonsense .. Stalin and Putin can’t even be put next to ..

There is one trick. You give statistical indicators, which is generally correct, but the article talks about specific, quickly implemented projects (power units, pig farms, etc.).

But you must always remember that over 70 years of technology, especially in the field of construction, have gone far ahead. Descendants will say that Putin built the Crimean bridge in 3 years, and Stalin could not for the entire period of his reign.

Our current leader understands all this well, he personally has already achieved everything, it’s time to work on history books. Hence the craving for memorable megaprojects such as cosmodromes, Olympiads, bridges, small victorious wars and the accession (return) of new lands. Maybe we'll see an aircraft carrier.

However, in fairness and in defense of GDP, it must be said that, firstly, they are all the same, since the time of Cheops, and secondly, the general standard of living can be called, if not the golden, then the silver age of Russia over the past 100 years, and most importantly, no he will call Putin a bloody tyrant and executioner of his people (though it is still not evening).

[New Year day]

Quote: Arzt

Stalin could not for all the reign.

suppose Stalin built a bridge across the Kerch Strait. Another thing is not permanent.

Quote: Arzt

ora work on history books

he is already in history

Quote: Arzt

most importantly, no one will call Putin a bloody tyrant and executioner of his people

what a correct clarification

Quote: Arzt

(though it's not evening yet).

[Doctor]

suppose Stalin built a bridge across the Kerch Strait. Another thing is not permanent.

Of course. And for those times it was a great achievement.

I say that the authors of the video are cunning, directly comparing the construction of enterprises in those days and in ours. 70 years have passed, the technology, the level of mechanization and the conditions are different. So you can generally compare everything in favor of our current rulers.
The number of cars, refrigerators, televisions per capita, the development of cellular communications, space flights, nuclear power plants - everything is steeper now. But this is not the merit of modern "super-managers", but the natural development of the historical process. If you compare with Alexander I and Ivan the Terrible, it will come out even more beautiful.

[New Year day]

Quote: Arzt

If you compare with Alexander I and Ivan the Terrible, it will come out even more beautiful.

all true!

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Arzt

Hence the craving for memorable megaprojects such as cosmodromes, Olympiads, bridges, small victorious wars and the accession (return) of new lands. Maybe we'll see an aircraft carrier.

We are in such megaprojects, "as in a royemie litter" ... Either the Olympiad, equal to which the world has not seen in terms of costs and cuts, now the world championship in conjunction with the pension reform, or the cosmodrome from which only flies do not fall, led by a former Komsomol propagandist then colonels and senators with their stolen billions.
We saw how, in order to stay at the trough, the "high" titles of United Russia members are being refused (analogy with membership in the Communist Party of the Soviet Union). The next stage is the great relocation to the estates procured (bought) abroad, so that they would not be raised on the pitchfork ... It's like two fingers on the asphalt ... Like an annual increase in pensions by 1000 rubles. And still ahead are tomatoes, shoes flying into the head and spitting into the car window ... Cynical? What is there to do?

[Moore]

Quote: Arzt

and most importantly, no one will call Putin a bloody tyrant and executioner of his people (though it's not yet evening).

A very true idea is enclosed in brackets, however, it can be considered in two ways:
- The darkest one will begin to be reputed as a kgovy teggan, plunging trembling youths and youths into prison, sprinkling them with a good portion of free-thinking intelligentsia with "good faces" and thereby causing indignation of the entire progressive world;
- there will be a "Cornfield" for him, who will write his own version of the story after the departure of the Darkest One in every sense of the word.
The first option is interesting, but the likelihood of embodiment is negligible. The second is very likely.

[Mikhail Drabkin]

On average, we lag behind the pace of Stalinist industrialization not so dramatically: we build 428 objects per year instead of 692.

-Under Stalin - production giants were created, and now - most of these industries are no more than the shops of Stalin's plants in comparison.
—- How to compare the production of motorcycles and scooters in the category “personal vehicles”

[16329]

Have you ever seen modern production in the west or with us?
Why now the production giants of the full cycle, they simply are not needed
Modern manufactures are more likely reminiscent of previous assembly shops and service workshops; components are obtained from third-party suppliers.
Modern production facilities, large agricultural enterprises, huge volumes of housing construction are being created, everything is developing normally.
But the Stalin period has remained in the distant past, now a completely different society and the world must belong to the Stalin period without hysteria and pathos, a normal period in the history of the country, a way out of the time of troubles with the costs and achievements typical of the 20s-50s of the 20th century
It was a time of great achievements, gigantic wars, victories, the efforts of the people and great sacrifices in the name of these victories.
It's time to turn to reality and look forward and stop falling into nostalgia

[The Sparkle]

And before World War I, Russia's GDP was also considered in dollars? As far as I remember, then the dollar was not yet a world currency.

[Procopius Nesterov]

Total industrial production per capita for 1913-1950 in the USSR increased 4 times. Share of world industrial production of the USSR:
1913 - 3,6%
1920 - 0,6%
1938 - 5,6%
1950 - 6,9%
1986 - 14,6%
In 2007, Russia's share in world GDP is 3,2%.
You are manipulating, first, the population of the USSR was 2 times the population of Russia.
Second in 1986, the world's population was less than 5 billion, now 7,7 billion. Growth by more than 50 percent.
The contribution to world GDP, for example, Great Britain and France, has also decreased because of this.

[16329]

In general, the volume of the Russian economy (in the period of relative stability) is, on average, according to various estimates, approximately at the same Fifth-Sixth place in the world
In order for this volume to be more, it is necessary to have other climatic conditions, a geographical location or create political conditions, including by the method of waging various kinds of imperialist wars.
Imperialist wars provide new markets, this creates the conditions for the development of the economy and the breakthrough of isolation into which geopolitical opponents are always trying to push Russia
Now Russia is waging such wars, one of them is in the Middle East

[Alexey LK]

For some reason, I thought that the period for which Putin is responsible is 20 years, from 1999 to 2019, but here you have the indicators from 1987 to 2007. This is called juggling, if not cheating. Then, for the USSR, indicate the percentage of global industrial production, and for the Russian Federation in 2007. - a percentage of world GDP ... Maybe you are right in some ways, but with your approach you only discount your arguments. And then, I do not want to justify anyone, but the methods of the two compared industrializations, their prices in human destinies and lives, are still incomparable. Yes, in the 90s it was difficult, even with work, not to mention, if not. But people were not sent in batches to the camps; they were not shot for their origin. And after 1999 - you can call it in different ways, but not degradation.

[ZAV69]

Let’s be completely honest, the statistics are for the Russian Empire (Poland and Finland in its composition), the USSR before the war (there are no Baltic states), the USSR after the war, and modern Russia (excluding the republics).
How can we compare countries that are completely different in composition? You get the beautiful picture you juggle and make a loud statement.
How can we compare the GDP of the late USSR and Russia? As part of Russia, there are no longer the most powerful enterprises in Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan, you can not even talk about the rest.

[bk316]

And what is the fall rate over the past 20 years? Here it is (1990 - 100%):

Vladimir in your head what?
You write about Putin and take 100 for 1990%. Why on earth? YOURSELF WRITTEN FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS. What year was 20 years ago?
And about Stalin, in general, the same mess, how did Stalin influence the economic indicators of the 13-20 years?

Of course, Stalin's industrialization is much cooler than Putin's, but the activities of such frenzied people like you compromise these facts. So I look at your posts and think: maybe the Cossack is mishandled?

[Arkon]

Quote: Svarog

c) It is interesting to compare the economic decline during the war period 41-45 and in the period 1990-2010.
1940 year - 100%
1945 year:
Industry - 92% (8% drop)
- production of capital goods - 112%
- production of consumer goods - 59%
National income - 83%
Fixed assets - 88%
Investments - 90%
And what is the fall rate over the past 20 years? Here it is (1990 - 100%):
2000 year:
GDP: 65,1%
Production: 52,5%
Investment: 26,1%
2010 year:
GDP: 103%
Production: 77,1%
Investment: 56,8%

Over the past 20 years? 1990 - 2010? Are you a guest from the past? That's right in the yard in 2019. Well, oh well, I'll fill the gap.

So,
Industrial production 1999 - 100%, 2017 - 170% growth 70%
PPP GDP 1999 - 1454.2 billion dollars - 100%, 2018 - 4213.4 billion dollars - 289%, growth 189%

Where is the fall you are claiming? Do not be ashamed to juggle the numbers?

[smart ass]

Someone count closed production

[Tibidokh]

It was considered that Putin's deindustrialization is in no way inferior to Stalinist industrialization.

[Alexey LK]

I met statistics that in the USA 80-90% of new enterprises do not survive the first two years and are closing. So what? And nothing, there is no tragedy. How many closed enterprises were profitable? I think there were practically no such, otherwise they would not have closed (a change of ownership is another). And what, it was necessary not to close unprofitable production? What to do with them? How should their losses be financed? At the expense of the budget? Those. on social would the scope be even smaller? Do you know how under Thatcher coal mines in Britain were closed, for example?

[smart ass]

I remember the time when I raised contributions to the pension fund from 6 thousand rubles a year to 36 thousand rubles, I myself stood in line for closing un) I was just a queue for closing I never saw this! In a small town that was happening in big cities I can’t imagine

[Alexey LK]

And how is this connected with the closure of factories ?? I do not say that state. management was and is very effective, but do not interfere with everything in one boiler ...

[smart ass]

The fact that any business was once small

[fruit_cake]

the liberals first looted and sold everything, now they are trying to make something out of the wreckage of Soviet industry and science, and shout about their successes on parasitizing on Soviet technologies

[paul3390]

Under Comrade Stalin, the most important thing was that people were sure that the future would only be brighter. And their children and grandchildren will live much better than them. Now - the situation is radically opposite. Every year, every year, the bourgeoisie under Putin - completely lost the coast from unbridled greed. And the future of the people is getting darker and darker. So how do you compare these two personalities? Against the background of Joseph Vissarionovich-GDP is just a tiny insignificant pygmy .. Yes, and even a fierce enemy of the people.

[tracer]

Paradox, I alone want you to polish the tinsel? For the "pathetic pygmy." This at least shows the wretchedness of your thinking. At least lick each other's flock of frostbitten "straters" on the site, whining with disgust and ignoring any facts of Russia's development. Though you wriggle here longing for "the time where everything was fine." Nothing depends on you in the economy that is not to your liking. Vorya is enough with young "technocrafts" but people who do their job well too.

[Greenwood]

Quote: tracer

I alone want you to polish the tinsel? For the "pathetic pygmy."

Putinoids are so funny in their anger. Probably voted for him, admit ?!

[tracer]

Yes, and I will vote, unlike you, miserable. Though it is much more difficult for me than for you. And what about "funny" or. Perhaps I will switch to a person, but it's you who are funny, although of course you secretly consider yourself just a genius.

[ZAV69]

Yes, not only under Stalin, back in 89 I was in my future when I joined the army, in 91 I demobilized in a completely different country. And now I’m not sure of anything, it’s like there’s a permanent job, everything seems to be stable, but what if the leadership in Moscow will happen again? There is no certainty

[The leader of the Redskins]

Well, why ... You can compare ... Happy 1913 year! How many nuclear power plants were built there under the tsar? What about tanks? Or jet aircraft?

[Svarog]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

Well, why ... You can compare ... Happy 1913 year! How many nuclear power plants were built there under the tsar? What about tanks? Or jet aircraft?

Under the tsar, in general, there was already UOOOOs .. 14% of the population was able to read ... the rest did not know how .. Actually now everything goes to this ..

[New Year day]

Quote: Svarog

14% of the population were able to read ... the rest did not know how ..

Under the tsar, workers had an average salary of about 1913 rubles in 37. A pound of medium quality pork at that time cost about 20 kopecks. The Russian pound weighed 0,41 kg. So, a kilogram cost 49 kopecks. Thus, the worker could buy about 75 kilograms of pork for his salary.
In 1940, the average wage of a worker in industry was 358 rubles, and pork of average quality cost 14 rubles. A worker could buy no more than 26 kg of pork for a salary.

[Mcar]

Quote: Silvestr

Under the tsar, workers had an average salary of about 1913 rubles in 37. A pound of medium quality pork at that time cost about 20 kopecks. The Russian pound weighed 0,41 kg. So, a kilogram cost 49 kopecks. Thus, the worker could buy about 75 kilograms of pork for his salary.
In 1940, the average wage of a worker in industry was 358 rubles, and pork of average quality cost 14 rubles. A worker could buy no more than 26 kg of pork for a salary.

When the king of workers was not more than 7%. There were very few skilled workers. The overall picture was similar to the present - there are salaries of 30 million (there are few) and there are salaries of 15 thousand (there are many). And on average, not bad. The Union did not have such a variation in income.

[tracer]

And in this caste of pathological haters of the "Putin regime" it is not customary to think. The main thing is to "hyip" on your nonsense.

[Procopius Nesterov]

Well, the older generation was illiterate in the Russian Empire, under Nicholas the Second, at the end of the reign there were more than 100 thousand schools, where more than 8 million students studied.
I cite the Soviet data, most likely understated, since Russia and tsarism could not be shown in a good light.

[Mcar]

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

under Nicholas II, at the end of the reign there were more than 100 thousand schools, where more than 8 million students studied.

Of course, the situation with literacy improved towards the end of the Republic of Ingushetia - life forced tsarism to form its own people, since they realized that the country could not survive in a new capitalist formation with a people who could not even read. However, when you find out that 90% of the children studied no longer than two years, the picture is not so funny.

When a person without teeth is offered a selected steak, this is called bullying. They built schools, yeah. Yes, peasant life, which consisted exclusively of hard physical manual labor, demanded the employment of all family members, and the children here were the same workers as adults. They were loaded from morning to night no less than adults, albeit with all possible effort. This is on the one hand. On the other hand, why would the peasant need literacy if he never wrote anything in his life, composed, or invented? Signs to read? But for this or what? So there were one and a half pieces to the village.

Where they understood the importance of literacy, children studied. Such peasants became prosperous, not least because of the ability to use their knowledge. And neighbors looked at them crookedly, for whom the highest justice is when everyone is equally poor and clogged.

If education in pre-revolutionary Russia would be such an accessible thing, then the Bolsheviks would never have to carry out the elimination of illiteracy. There would be nothing to eliminate, any villager, even under the tsar-priest, would exercise his right to an affordable education, unless higher mathematics would be available to him. According to the census of 1897, there were regions in the Republic of Ingushetia (in the European part) where illiteracy reached more than 90%, but basically it was possible to talk about about 25% of the literate population.

[Procopius Nesterov]

You take 1897, so I would like to compare what Nicholas II did by 1917. I think that a lot.
Second, the educational program was essentially bureaucratic in nature, and a person was taught to read a signature or sign.
About two years - In 1911, 45% of Zemstvos who had a school network plan came from a four-year school course, and another 36% from a combination of three-year and four-year schools
As for the success of the Bolsheviks in the school field, let us turn to the congress of the Bolsheviks and give them a speech below on the screen.

[Mcar]

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

You take 1897, so I would like to compare what Nicholas II did by 1917. I think that a lot.

Well, that's just "think" and remains. There are no objective data. Therefore, every Ostapov artist: I see so!

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

Second, the educational program was essentially bureaucratic in nature, and a person was taught to read a signature or sign.

Aren't you ashamed to make such sounds? Not good. You are in society.

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

About two years - In 1911, 45% of Zemstvos who had a school network plan came from a four-year school course, and another 36% from a combination of three-year and four-year schools

It does not matter which and what came from there. Dad will say: I’ve unlearned for two years and I’m good, not wanting to wipe my pants, there’s a lot to do in the house. And the forest went all the zemstvo plans. This is not Soviet power for you, when every young citizen has control, and if he doesn’t go to school, an immediate reaction. This, in the Republic of Ingushetia, is free, read - liberal, relations. Nobody cares whether you learned or remained illiterate. Exactly as it is now.

[Procopius Nesterov]

Well, if you can’t find the data, this does not mean that they are not. I spent a couple of minutes and found.
In 1896, 78 thousand educational institutions, 3 million 800 thousand students.
It turns out that for 18 years, by 1914, the growth of students more than 2 times to 8 million 150 thousand.

[Mcar]

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

Well, if you can’t find the data, this does not mean that they are not. I spent a couple of minutes and found.

I did not say that there is no data at all. No objective. Those. universal and comprehensive, which could be trusted unconditionally.

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

It turns out that for 18 years, by 1914, the growth of students more than 2 times to 8 million 150 thousand.

Yes, at least 3 times. Again. 90% of children did not finish primary school. Yeah, I would be in RI and Gagarin, and Korolev, and another galaxy of outstanding people who did not even finish elementary school.

How unavailable was education in the Republic of Ingushetia can be judged by this fact - only 1% of the total number of subjects continued education above the initial one. In other words, there were horribly few people with higher education.

PS. If presenting a document, explain what it is. And so - filkina letter.

PPS To calm your soul, let me end where I started. Now in bold.

Quote: McAr

It is of course literacy situation improved by late RI - life forced tsarism to educate its people, as they realized that the country could not survive in the new capitalist formation with a people who could not even read.

[Procopius Nesterov]

Data taken from the book of 1898. Statistical information on primary education in the Russian Empire for 1896. http://istmat.info/files/uploads/25555/nachalnoe_obrazovanie_ri_1896_-3.pdf
Where is even more objective and more precise?
But you don’t bring any documents, for example your statement 90% of children did not finish primary school. what is it based on?
Yes, it is not based on anything. It is based on hatred of Russia and any positive processes and trends that have occurred to you are hated.
life forced tsarism to educate its people, as they realized that the country could not survive in the new capitalist formation with a people who could not even read. And what's wrong with that? can you change tsarism to communism in your phrase, and then what? What is wrong with that when the king decided to build schools and educate the people?

[Mcar]

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

Data taken from the book of 1898. Statistical information on primary education in the Russian Empire for 1896. http://istmat.info/files/uploads/25555/nachalnoe_obrazovanie_ri_1896_-3.pdf
Where is even more objective and more precise?

So what does your "over 18 years" have to do with it? Do you understand the numbers? Those. which is more, which is less? The census in RI was in 1897, and you mean some information for 1896. Can't figure out which year was earlier - 1987 or 1986?

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

But you do not bring any documents, for example, your statement 90% of children did not finish primary school. what is it based on?

Yes please! I really thought you were up to date on the topic of open mouths.

By 1911, 90% of children studied for only one to two years. In total, in towns and villages, only 12% of boys and 8% of girls attended school for more than 3 years. As noted by A. V. Zakharov, “A three-year-old school course designed to give a complete primary education, that is, to communicate a certain amount of knowledge, gives most students only literacy - the ability to read and don't always write", A.V. Zakharov, School accessibility and literacy in the Kostroma provinceKostroma, 1913, p. 37.

It is important to note here that 90% of students 1-2 years and 10% of students more than 3 years, this is not the total number of children school age. As of January 1, 1915, out of 15259,8 thousand school-age children only 51% studied. In a number of regions of the country, the percentage of children studied was even lower: in Siberia, for example, 39%, in the Caucasus - 37,2%, in the steppe and Central Asian regions-14,2%, in the Hernwan province - 12,3%, in the Yakutsk region - 10,7%, in Samarkand - 1,9%.

In 1911, only 23,8% of children aged 7-14 years old studied in rural elementary schools. The proportion of students in the entire rural population of European Russia for 1880-1911 increased only from 1,5% in 1880 to 4,5% in 1911

To understand the picture: Only 1/5 went to school at all, and of those who did go 9/10 did not even finish the initial one. Champagne to all!

The text review of the materials of the first general census of 1897 says: “With education Above the initial in the whole empire, there were 1 individuals, or only 364%. In particular, among males there were 143 or 1,102% of the male population and 848 female or 932% of all women. It should also be kept in mind that the given digital values ​​do not exhaustively indicate the number of people who have truly completed their education, but they only indicate that so many of them studied in various institutions, and how many of them graduated is unknown. ” A general set of empires on the results of the development of the data of the first general census of the population, made on January 18, 1897, St. Petersburg, vol. I, p. XVII

[Procopius Nesterov]

You wrote a lot, but didn’t answer the question where did the data say that 90 percent didn’t finish school? You look generally confused, then half went, then 1/5 in another paragraph.
As of January 1, 1915, out of 15259,8 thousand school-age children, only 51% studied.
Only 1/5 went to school at all, and of those who did go 9/10 did not even finish the initial.

[Mcar]

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

A.V. Zakharov, School accessibility and literacy in the Kostroma province, Kostroma, 1913, p. 37.

You would be a deputy - just right. There guys, if they don’t understand from one time - they read two, three times.
A.V. Zakharov, School accessibility and literacy in the Kostroma province, Kostroma, 1913, p. 37.
Can highlight in red?

[Procopius Nesterov]

I opened this 37 page long ago http://starina44.ru/d/327942/d/nachalʹnaya_shkola_(1913).pdf and I don’t see about 90 percent of those who didn’t graduate from the school. And if you find this figure, explain in what side the data on Kostroma counties you extrapolate and loudly declare that 90 percent did not finish school in Russia.
And if you go to page 39 there is a good percentage of literates. As I said, the trend is visible the younger the more literate and this is in 1897. By 1917 I think the results are better.

[Mcar]

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

As of January 1, 1915, out of 15259,8 thousand school-age children, only 51% studied.
Only 1/5 went to school at all, and of those who did go 9/10 did not even finish the initial.

You got it. 1911 less, 1015 more. What should I repeat in each comment - has the situation with education in RI improved? It improved, but it was deplorable compared not even with Europe, but at least with the Baltic states.

[New Year day]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

How many nuclear power plants were built there under the tsar?

You can take another parameter, which always existed - the number of cattle.
Herd of the Russian Empire by 1914 it was in first place in Europe in terms of the number of cattle (more than 50 million animals) and second in the world after the United States (61,4 million animals).
In 1916 in the Tomsk province without cows and horses there were only 9,2% of households. 59,7% of households had 3 or more horses; 43,1% of households had 3 or more cows. Altai: horseless farms 6,5%, cowless 6,8%; but 34,1% of households had 4 or more horses; 33,4% had 3 or more cows. It turns out that in Siberia more than half the peasants were “fists”!
According to Rosstat July 1, 2018 the total number of cattle was 19,7 million heads, of these cows - 8,3 million heads in farms of all categories.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Silvestr

According to the Federal State Statistics Service on July 1 2018. the total number of cattle amounted to 19,7 million heads, of which cows - 8,3 million heads in farms of all categories.

And there, in the video, they boast that they built a large, very large pigsty.

[New Year day]

Quote: Mordvin 3

that a big-big pigsty was built.

comparable to Dneproges!

[Moore]

Quote: Silvestr

It turns out that in Siberia more than half the peasants were “fists”!

Yes, that's right. But where did the famine of 1891-92 come from with such an "abundance"?
With a kgovy tegan, it's clear - he pulled out all the veins from the peasantry, a ghoul with a mustache. But what about with the anointed crown bearer, and with the darkness of "kulaks"?

[Procopius Nesterov]

Under Stalin, more people died from starvation than from starvation for the entire 19th century in the Russian Empire.

[Moore]

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

Under Stalin, more people died from starvation than from starvation for the entire 19th century in the Russian Empire.

Can you give the numbers, or is it a pen test?
I just dug a little - from 1891 to 1913 people who died of hunger and typhus in the Republic of Ingushetia - 17-19 million souls. The lion's share - children, from diseases and malnutrition, which provoked these diseases.

[Procopius Nesterov]

Well, this is simply a lie. The documented figures for the change in the number of births, who died in the Russian Empire are documented and there are no such figures there.

[Moore]

Well, bring the documents. I call the numbers used in the Duma by the cadets who did not like Stolypin much.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

Well, why ... You can compare ... Happy 1913 year! How many nuclear power plants were built there under the tsar? What about tanks? Or jet aircraft?

And you can compare for flax, Vologda oil ... But who knows?

[paul3390]

Quote: Svarog

Stalin and Putin can’t even be put near ..

Stalin-was the greatest Russian emperor in our history .. And his time - the highest rise of the country's power and confidence in the bright future of the people ..

[Lexus]

In ancient Rome, such emperors were called soldiers' emperors. They enjoyed the unconditional support of the army and the respect of the people. Significantly, their traitors poisoned.

[petrol cutter]

* On average, we are not so dramatically behind the pace of Stalinist industrialization: we are building 428 objects a year instead of 692. *
This is not buzzing. It is necessary to catch up and overtake. In fact. Otherwise, I will have to * blush * in front of Comrade Stalin. And he is a stern man! You don’t forget about him! .. Maybe ask in all severity- what did you do and why didn’t you justify? ...
I would even say, failed! The industry entrusted to you. Ay ?!

[Nikolay87]

In my opinion, the recently published video about Angstrom-T quite clearly describes the current production. And the point is not even in Putin, but in the economic model itself. When you know the root cause, the consequences cease to amaze.

[Svarog]

Quote: Nikolay87

it’s not even Putin, but the economic model itself

And whose associates and subordinates built this model? Is not Putin? The point is Putin, it’s stupid to take responsibility from him when he has been in power for 20 years ..

[Nikolay87]

Quote: Svarog

Quote: Nikolay87

it’s not even Putin, but the economic model itself

And whose associates and subordinates built this model? Is not Putin? The point is Putin, it’s stupid to take responsibility from him when he has been in power for 20 years ..

What do you want from him with the capitalist economic model in the state? To start large-scale industrialization? And the market? or do you want to do it contrary to the laws of the market? It is foolish to blame one person or a small group of people for everything. This is a weak position, based on this logic, you will not make a better country. The problem is not in them.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Nikolay87

And the market?

Russia itself is a very big market, and even with the capitalist model, a self-sufficient, progressive economy can be built. The problem is that the goals of those in power are opposite. Pension reform is the most striking example - apart from the IMF recommendations, there was not a single reason for raising the retirement age.

[Nikolay87]

Quote: Ingvar 72

and even with the capitalist model, a self-sufficient, progressive economy can be built. The problem is that those in power have opposite goals.

You contradict yourself. The goal of those in power is to "cut the dough" if there is profitably build a progressive economy, it will be done, otherwise it will be contrary to the laws of the market. And as for me, you greatly overestimate the domestic market.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Nikolay87

You contradict yourself. The goal of those in power is to "cut the dough", if it is profitable to build a progressive economy, this will be done,

What is the contradiction? A progressing economy is always beneficial because the tax base will be higher. Accordingly, there is more dough in the budget. The fact is that "our" powers that be, see some kind of restrictions on the development of the country from the IMF and the world government. This is certainly my vision.
Regarding the size of the market - let's estimate - 140 million people - is this a big market? In my opinion a big one.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Russia itself is a very big market, and even with the capitalist model, you can build a self-sufficient progressive economy

To sell something in this market, it is necessary, at least, that this “something” be competitive. Well, or close the market again, as in the Soviet Union.

It is strange that you, as an "economist", do not understand this.

Quote: Ingvar 72

apart from IMF recommendations, there was not a single reason for raising the retirement age

Suggest you take a word? It somehow doesn’t work out ... kitty

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Golovan Jack

To sell something in this market, it is necessary, at least, that this “something” be competitive. Well, or close the market again, as in the Soviet Union.
It is strange that you, as an "economist", do not understand this.

The state has many levers in order to create greenhouse conditions for its own producer. In some areas these levers are used.

Quote: Golovan Jack

Suggest you take a word? It somehow doesn’t work out ... kitty

You somehow did not believe me, losing a bottle of tequila. Does the experience of your own mistakes teach you nothing?

[AU Ivanov.]

The topic of raising the retirement age was for the first time touched upon by the government of the pre-minister Ryzhkov, i.e. under Gorbachev. There is only one reason - the demographic situation.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

There is only one reason - the demographic situation.

Andrey - with a budget surplus, demography is not the reason. If there were a budget deficit for several years in a row. then yes, we could talk about demography as a reason.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Russia itself is a very big market, and even with the capitalist model, a self-sufficient, progressive economy can be built.

Russia is capable of supplying to the foreign market (for currency, for gold) something exclusive that the world does not have, and instead squandering natural resources, as if it were the legitimate private property of the khanig group. They don’t even itch to fulfill the promise, but we compare their vile speculation with industrialization. You answer yourself - are you not disgusted with these arrogant, shameless faces, which cannot be driven out of shafts from armchairs? They don’t even know how to live this way, not at the feeding trough. And it’s time for us to draw this perspective for them.

[New Year day]

Quote: Nikolay87

It is foolish to blame one person or a small group of people for everything. The problem is not in them.

decrypt pzhl

[Witness 45]

Yes, you are right, one cannot blame one person for events of such a scale as a radical change in the socio-political and structure, everyone is to blame, the whole people, broke down, surrendered the ideals of 1917, and this surrender began long before Putin came to power, back then. when the Red Flag was flying over the Kremlin, and when we diligently studied the "truth of the last resort of the faithful Leninists" that sounded at the CPSU congresses in political studies. Although it is also difficult to blame the people, too difficult trials fell to his lot when he chose the path in the 17th year of building a new society, these trials broke him both physically, and most importantly morally, undermined faith in these ideals, and now we have something, what we have.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Svidetel 45

and when we diligently at political studies studied the "truth of the last resort of the faithful Leninists" that sounded at the CPSU congresses.

When you studied "these truths" and "took notes" there were many questions "why?" And everything happened due to the fact that socialist principles began to distort, veil with petty-bourgeois ideology.
But even in the post-Stalin era, the country's leadership didn’t care about the fate of the people, and theft on a large scale and speculation (in currency) were severely punished ...

[Doctor]

What do you want from him with the capitalist economic model in the state? To start large-scale industrialization? And the market? or do you want to do it contrary to the laws of the market?

Determine the main directions of the development of science, invest in secondary, specialized secondary, higher education, specialized research institutes in the main areas with access to specific products of the next generation.

Put gangsters, thieves, and corrupt officials for serious terms, regardless of personal relationships and positions.

Align salaries in the regions and in the center in budgetary institutions, establish a clear tariff schedule.

Civil servants have only one citizenship - Russia.

To review the leadership of the Government, the power block, state enterprises with priority to representatives of the indigenous peoples of the country.

Etc.

In short - Belarus with our budget.

It is foolish to blame one person or a small group of people for everything. This is a weak position, based on this logic, you will not make a better country. The problem is not in them.

The problem is in them. All of them perfectly know the truth about themselves. And the truth is that this is a thief that fate temporarily brought to the top of the country, and there is no brain to understand a simple thing - without their state and people they are nobody. Their degenerative, weak, depraved children will quickly devour everything, everything that lies in foreign banks will be stupidly taken away, so a change of elites is inevitable, the process has already begun. And not the fact that it will be evolutionary.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Arzt

The problem is in them. All of them perfectly know the truth about themselves. And the truth is that this is a thief that fate temporarily brought to the top of the country, and there is no brain to understand a simple thing - without their state and people they are nobody.

It is time to develop the regions, returning to the center a fixed part of the profit. Then there will be no cancerous tumor in the form of Moscow (moving the capital is a very good decision) and the regions will start to wonder what they should build: bugs or production, fight Putin’s enemies or start working ...

[Mcar]

Quote: Nikolay87

What do you want from him with the capitalist economic model in the state? To start large-scale industrialization? And the market? or do you want to do it contrary to the laws of the market? It is foolish to blame one person or a small group of people for everything. This is a weak position, based on this logic, you will not make a better country. The problem is not in them.

I already checked - this idea is unpopular in VO.

The absolute majority does not understand that personifying evil or good is not constructive or even harmful. Many live in the illusions that it’s worth only replacing the bad tsar, boyars, eruptive officials, etc., with good tsars, boyars, silent officials, and all will be happy at once. Naive ...

What the hell is industrialization if capitalism is in the yard? Those. in the yard there are conditions in which the purpose of production is not providing needs, but selling, or profit. Who will buy? Now half a country is barely making ends meet, saving on everything. And a dozen of two million so specifically die out. Is it they who will buy the giants produced by the new industrialization produced by the giants?

No, friends and foes, until we change the capitalist formation to a socialist one, there will be no industrialization, no serious "import substitution".

[DNS-a42]

Indeed, the problem is not in personalities, but in the social system - capitalism. While this idea reaches the masses badly, but nothing, life will teach.

[Mcar]

Quote: DNS-a42

Indeed, the problem is not in personalities, but in the social system - capitalism. While this idea reaches the masses badly, but nothing, life will teach.

I am glad that you understand this. Unfortunately, there are still few like us.

One thing pleases - the truth is behind us, and sooner or later it will punch the road. There will come times when the masses will be surprised - but how could this be so that not some primates, but reasonable people would be sure that all their sorrows and sufferings from certain people.

[Nikolay87]

Quote: McAr

I already checked - this idea is unpopular in VO.

The absolute majority does not understand that personifying evil or good is not constructive or even harmful. Many live in the illusions that it’s worth only replacing the bad tsar, boyars, eruptive officials, etc., with good tsars, boyars, silent officials, and all will be happy at once. Naive ...

Thank. I am very glad to see such a comment here. We will conduct educational work

[Mcar]

Quote: Nikolay87

Quote: McAr

I already checked - this idea is unpopular in VO.

The absolute majority does not understand that personifying evil or good is not constructive or even harmful. Many live in the illusions that it’s worth only replacing the bad tsar, boyars, eruptive officials, etc., with good tsars, boyars, silent officials, and all will be happy at once. Naive ...

Thank. I am very glad to see such a comment here. We will conduct educational work

Comrade and ally of the word one exodus, one basis. Our cause is just, capitalism will be defeated, victory will be ours - for progressive brains and muscles. The question now and for a long time now has been this way - either death (in a nuclear fire) or the prosperity of all mankind. I don’t even want to talk about a nuclear fire. So, one thing remains - to educate at every convenient and every inconvenient case. Every lost soul can instantly become Danko on its own scale.

[tracer]

Yes Svarog "hype" on his favorite topic. He's probably waiting for his belly to be scratched by his fellow believers on the site. He looks for and gives examples "simple as a shovel". The fact that now is a different time and in general everything else is impossible for him to understand. "There are two Bronetsky on the left, one is Mr. Marian, and the other is Andrian ....." (M. Bulgakov). But he always turns out "Mandryan" or comes down to him.
Here is the level of his understanding of the current economy of Russia and, accordingly, of his conclusions with examples.

[smart ass]

Do you think industrialization is related to the market? But what about the construction of roads, bridges, junctions, the modernization of the railway, hydroelectric power station, nuclear power plant, and heavy engineering enterprises, should small business also deal with this?

[Nikolay87]

Quote: Clever man

Do you think industrialization is related to the market? But what about the construction of roads, bridges, junctions, the modernization of the railway, hydroelectric power station, nuclear power plant, and heavy engineering enterprises, should small business also deal with this?

And why do you need a tender for yours?
Under capitalism, any enterprise must be profitable, otherwise it will be a burden on the budget. It can be unprofitable, subsidized from the fed. budget, but vital for the state. So Russian Railways, Aeroflot, etc. subsidized from the budget so that the "good" uncle capitalist does not raise the prices of ordinary people for transportation. Or should Putin be responsible for this too (I mean "responsible for the honesty of managers") ?! I can start writing with quotes from great people, but nobody wants to hear the truth about myself. Such people. That's how we are.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Svarog

The point is Putin, it’s stupid to take responsibility from him when he’s been in power for 20 years ..

I still think that it is not in it. He is just a pawn, fulfilling the will of a handful of oligarchy, and building himself a cool Chekist. As long as he suits the real powers that be, they will not be removed anywhere.

[Van 16]

Another mantra about how wonderful everything is with us. Found what to compare, heaven and earth. Then there was development, now degradation.

[paul3390]

Quote: Svarog

Case in Putin

A ruler is ALWAYS a spokesman for the interests of an exclusively ruling class. And only him. In our case, Putin is simply a protege of the big bourgeoisie. And naturally, it acts exclusively for its well-being. For everything else-they do not care .. And the people as well. For they themselves - for a long time ago they did not consider themselves part of the people living in the Russian Federation ..

[Vitaly Tsymbal]

It is not the comparison of epochs that worries me, I am alarmed by the course of some "bastard political strategists" who are trying to create an image of a new leader of nations and revive the "cult of personality" - namely, the cult of Putin's personality. True, I may be mistaken, but Putin himself is not against this, at least one cannot hear the team addressed to these technologists - stop. But Putin is not Stalin, and not even dear Leonid Ilyich. For a personality cult, terror is needed against those who disagree, even in trifles, by the leader of the ruling ideology - that is, "who is not with us is against us." But the modern political elite also lacks an ideology based on a dictatorship (there was a dictatorship of the proletariat in the USSR); there are no prerequisites for a dictatorship. But there are attempts. Stalin became the "Father of Nations" after 7-8 years (including due to industrialization), Putin has been in power for 20 years and there are no significant results in the development of the country, especially in improving the welfare of the population. Yes, and Putin's age is no longer "dictatorial" ... and Putin is not a political adventurer, but a very, very, and sometimes, beyond need, a cautious politician (maybe this is good). So all these comparisons of "industrializations" are a simple formula for earning "capital", financial or political, at the expense of "w-lease."

[Svarog]

Vitaly Tsymbal] It is not the comparison of epochs that worries me, I am alarmed by the course of some "zadoliznyh political strategists" who are trying to create an image of the new leader of the peoples and revive the "cult of personality" - namely, the cult of Putin's personality.

You are not mistaken, I have the same feeling and it annoys even more ..

[New Year day]

Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal

alarming is the course of some "bastard political strategists" who are trying to create an image of the new leader of the peoples and revive the "cult of personality" - namely, the cult of Putin's personality.

and not even political technologists, but the presidential administration

Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal

... but Putin himself is not against it ...

still would!

Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal

For a personality cult, terror is needed against those who disagree, even in trifles, by the leader of the ruling ideology - that is, "who is not with us is against us."

but is it possible to clean up a political lawn, prohibit all kinds of objectionable rallies, push only favorable deputies and governors to him, a zombie is not a terror.

[Mixweb]

How do they dare to stutter about Putin’s proximity to the greatness of Stalin ?? Father of the oligarchy against the Father of the Nations.

[Witness 45]

“Father of the oligarchy” !?

[Mixweb]

Well, what a compliment ... You yourself confirmed my words) The Father of Nations served for the benefit of the peoples inhabiting the USSR. The father of the oligarchy serves the good of the oligarchs. Everything is correct)

[7,62x54]

Incorrect comparison. It must be compared with the year 1913. Moreover, the king is ours all for that period and looks around. What the current regime has succeeded in is verbiage and embezzlement.

[Nyrobsky]

Found something to compare with. If Stalin started industrialization practically from scratch, the USSR left a colossal "start-up capital" for this liberal Caudla, which was ineptly wasted and mostly destroyed. Not only factories have disappeared, scientific research institutes, design bureaus and entire manufacturing industries such as electronics, machine-tool building, aircraft building, chemical industry, etc. have disappeared, which are now trying to revive both within the framework of import substitution and thanks to sanctions. Okay, at least they try.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Nyrobsky

then the USSR left a colossal "start-up capital" for this liberal Caudla, which was ineptly wasted and for the most part destroyed

Everything is correct. Only the Caudla, who plundered and destroyed, at some point was replaced by another team, which began to restore. Already on the basis that came from Caudla. Without much "inheritance", but with colossal debt to the same IMF, for example.

Am I misunderstanding something?

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Everything is correct. Only the Caudla, who plundered and destroyed, at some point was replaced by another team, which began to restore. Already on the basis that came from Caudla. Without much "inheritance", but with colossal debt to the same IMF, for example.
Am I misunderstanding something?

In principle, so. In addition to the debt to the IMF, Russia up to a heap single-handedly paid the debts of all the republics formed at the time of the collapse of the USSR - the last payment was made to the Croats in 2017 or 2018. Nevertheless, looking at the actions of the economic bloc of the government, keeping in the "team" of Kudrin and some reformers at a close distance to state funding such as A. Chubais, the work of the HSE which has gathered under its roof ardent Russophobes such as Huseynov and clearly pumping anti-Russian interests, the idea arises of the fact that all this public, contrary to the declared statements on development, sets as its main task the development of mechanisms to restrain Russia's economic development. Cleaning up some of the "gifted" in the upper echelon of power is needed not tomorrow, but already yesterday.

[Procopius Nesterov]

You are confused, as Kudrin was the Minister of Finance from 2000 to 2011 and all debts were paid with him.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

You are confused, as Kudrin was the Minister of Finance from 2000 to 2011 and all debts were paid with him.

No Procopius, I am not confused. The fact that Kudrin was finance minister, and a very beloved finance minister for the Fed and the IMF, who praised him as the best minister is a fact. I gave up the debts and + brought colossal funds to the welfare fund, which are called a "safety cushion" and which are in great danger. "partners" should do nothing with them the same as with the gold reserves of Venezuela, by imposing an arrest on them. This money does not participate in the development of the real sector of the Russian economy, but brings some% for the fact that it is used in the West. De jure, they are ours, but de facto, they are theirs ... I am not an economist, but I understand the situation with this fund money as follows. If I'm wrong, correct it.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Nyrobsky

Cleaning up some of the "gifted" in the upper echelon of power is needed not tomorrow, but yesterday

They reminded me of a toast - "for our opportunities to coincide with our desires." I'm talking about the team that changed the codela, if you understand.

Hence

Quote: Nyrobsky

keeping Kudrin and some reformers in the "team" at a close distance to state funding such as A. Chubais, the work of the HSE, which has gathered under its roof ardent Russophobes such as Huseynov

Chubais and Kudrin, by the way, are not on the team. There is such a position - "ambassador to Zopu", this is exactly about them

Okay, your point is clear, thanks

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Chubais and Kudrin, by the way, are not in the team.

If Chubais is not in the team, then he is still in control of the "vacuum cleaner" that sucks out budget money in the absence of any significant results of the work of the "Rusnano" office. Maybe everything is so "nano" that the result can be contemplated only through a microscope, but no one has yet seen this tangible and tangible "miracle". At one time, the great storyteller G.H. Andersen perfectly described the process of creating "nano clothes" in the fairy tale "The Naked King", here is Chubais, he is still a storyteller, but with a security certificate. As for Kudrin, this gingerbread, as you know, rules the Accounts Chamber, and plays the role of a watching pike, so that the head of the government "crucian" does not doze, and therefore this accountant is one of the significant elements of the team.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Nyrobsky

... here is Chubais, he is also a storyteller, but with a security certificate. As for Kudrin, this gingerbread, as you know, controls the Accounts Chamber ...

I repeat: for both this significant loss of former positions. That is exactly - an honorary appointment

Quote: Golovan Jack

Ambassador to Zopu

As for everything else, unfortunately, there are no wizards in Putin's team. To "by the pike's command." And you have to work in the circumstances that are, and often with those people that are. The same Kudrin is a good accountant, his very place is in the Accounts Chamber. To be in plain sight, and not to go into politics especially. Including the economic one.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Golovan Jack

I repeat: for both, this is a significant loss of former positions.

It’s hard not to agree.

Quote: Golovan Jack

The same Kudrin is a good accountant, the very place for him is in the Accounts Chamber. To be in sight, and did not go into politics too much. Including - and in economic.

Hmm. Maybe this is some kind of logic.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Nyrobsky

It's hard to disagree

Three are against it ... for now. Baba Yaga collective, probably

It will be a result, IMHO, with a dozen. Yes, let them rage, for me - exactly

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Yes, let them rage, for me - exactly

Exactly, not exactly ... BUT the day before yesterday, namely on November 6, Comrade Stanovsky swore about the fact that VVP on Chubais's chest hung the order "For Merit to the Fatherland." And you know Golovan, in the light of the latest personnel decisions with the leaving of the LADY as prime minister, the adoption of a number of laws that worsen the situation of Russians (the pension law), including this award, I do not quite understand the GDP. What is it? A challenge to the people, ignorance of the interests of the people, or a demonstration that the government has completely lost the position of the Constitution, which says that the source of power is the people? Well, for the life of me I don't understand why Chubais was awarded the Order of Merit to the Fatherland. Looking at what is being done to strengthen the army and what is being done to strengthen Russia's position in foreign policy, which certainly arouses pride, I absolutely do not understand what is being done in domestic policy, which is aimed at causing a large-scale popular protest and dissatisfaction with what the authorities are doing, pulling out with their own hands those braces, which they speak of as the foundation that holds the state organism together.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Nyrobsky

What is this?

Wind. Like a model. I just looked at the weather map now, there too - a vegetable that you understand ... but it works

Okay. Seriously, but on frivolous topics ... like a thread then. Friday, night ... horizontal, definitely

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Golovan Jack

was replaced by another ... team, which began to rebuild.

What did she "restore"?

Quote: Golovan Jack

Without much "inheritance"

Remind me how many resources are in Russia, as a percentage of the world?

[AU Ivanov.]

Resources still need to be developed, mined and a buyer found on them. And supply in the world market exceeds demand.

[Ingvar 72]

I do not understand, now you have called resources a burden?

[AU Ivanov.]

No, resources are by no means a burden. This is the skin of an unkilled bear. The bear must first be baited, fill up, freshen, and then sell this skin. If there is a buyer for it.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Remind me how many resources are in Russia, as a percentage of the world?

Again "quietly with myself", my friend?

They started talking about the inheritance from here:

Quote: Nyrobsky

If Stalin began industrialization from scratch, then the USSR left this liberal Kodla colossal "start-up capital", which was ineptly wasted and for the most part destroyed. Not only disappeared factoriesdisappeared research institutes, design bureaus, and entire manufacturing industries such as electronics, machine tools, aircraft manufacturing, chemical industry, etc.

That is, speech, as it were, not really about resources... kitty

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Golovan Jack

They started talking about the inheritance from here:

This does not change the essence of my question about what the new Codla restored.
P.S. finally you have calmed down, and even sign Kisoy. Progress is evident!

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Ingvar 72

finally you calmed down, and even sign Kisoy

Yes, I, in general, did not worry

And you, my friend, do not distinguish the signature from the appeal ... you are not friends with commas, a campaign ... kitty

Quote: Ingvar 72

This does not change the essence of my question that the new Codla has restored

And why did you decide that you have the right to ask me questions? That's funny

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Golovan Jack

you are not friends with commas, a campaign ... kitty

Kitty, you again have a logical failure, where did you see the commas?

Quote: Golovan Jack

not really about resources ... pussycat

Quote: Golovan Jack

you are not friends with commas, a campaign ... kitty

One point, kitty! your processor urgently needs an upgrade .

Quote: Golovan Jack

And why did you decide that you have the right to ask me questions? That's funny

Again, instead of answering, "leftist" excuses. Although it was not worth expecting anything else from you, you are not responsible for the words at all.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Remind me how many resources are in Russia, as a percentage of the world?

remind ... and also do not forget to indicate in which warehouse they all lie together and to whom you decided to sell them at once !!!

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Nyrobsky

If Stalin began industrialization from scratch ...

... then Putin and the team brought it almost to zero:

GDP growth in 2018 may be near the upper limit of the forecast range of the Bank of Russia - 1,5–2%, - noted in the Central Bank.

For all that, the main growth was the increase in VAT and energy tariffs, which raised prices for goods and services. In quantitative terms, the numbers look just ridiculous ...

[vvnab]

It should cause a contemptuous smile, but for some reason, it infuriates ...

[7,62x54]

You see, Vasyuki will soon turn into New Vasyuki. ... and then Ostap suffered ....

[7,62x54]

I express my disrespect to the government and the president in a decent manner for all their "achievements"

[Prisoner]

Starting conditions are not the same this time, the second under Stalin, these were real indicators, current ones raise doubts. And in terms of everyday life, I want to relax and live peacefully in my declining years. But no! Tool in the teeth and forward soldiers! Life is more expensive every year, but in theory it should be cheaper. Demands decrease with age. I know that. It was enough for three days before the box of cognac, and now for the second month there’s a bottle of barren languishing in the bar.

[Mordvin 3]

Italian cosmetics factory at 40 jobs! Greenhouse complex! Ugh, their mother ... Yes, such offices under Stalin artels and collective farms called names, and did not go to statistics.

As a result of the implementation of the second five-year plan for the development of the national economy of the USSR, 4500 large state-owned industrial enterprises were put into operation.

[Procopius Nesterov]

I found a list of 500 enterprises "built in industrialization" http://istmat.info/node/9384, and you start checking. So many were built under the king, and for some reason they were included in the list.
“Red triangle” is one of the oldest Russian industrial enterprises in St. Petersburg, specializing in the production of rubber products, created in 1860.
Red Athlete "- factory in Moscow 1887
Tentelevsky Chemical Plant in 1875, became a Red Chemist. I think that if you spend time and check the whole list, the picture will sparkle with unpleasant colors for the Communists.
And how many communists destroyed factories because of the revolution and civil war?
I found a list in only one Moscow and the province was 1600 factories http://elib.shpl.ru/ru/nodes/19215#mode/inspect/page/60/zoom/4, how many of them did not survive all this turmoil.
Developing in an evolutionary way, it would not be necessary to tear guts and create competitive products that people need. All these factories would develop naturally. How many were there throughout Russia if there were 1600 in Moscow and Moscow Region alone.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

The scale, sir. That you are looking for data - I can only welcome, but conclusions should only be drawn on a comparison of scales. The Bolsheviks indeed often erected a new factory on the site of a handicraft workshop, but this does not mean that everything was built under the tsar. The same applies to 1600 "factories"

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

I found a list of 500 enterprises "built in industrialization" http://istmat.info/node/9384, and you start checking. So many were built under the king, and for some reason they were included in the list.

I do not see in this list either the Athlete, the Chemist, or the Triangle.

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

I found a list in only one Moscow and the province was 1600 factories http://elib.shpl.ru/ru/nodes/19215#mode/inspect/page/60/zoom/4, how many of them did not survive all this turmoil.

He looked. Dux Bicycle Factory has become State 1 Aircraft Plant.

By the beginning of the 1930-s, the factory number 1 monthly built up to 100 aircraft, releasing almost all parts and assemblies independently, except for motors and devices. However, a further increase in productivity was restrained by inadequate production space, since there was no longer room for expansion of the plant in the Tverskaya Yamskaya Sloboda. Even the construction of a four-story assembly building in 1926 did not solve the problem, especially since the significant increase in the size of the aircraft produced also created special problems.

By 1930, a spacious building of the aircraft building workshop was erected on the Khodynsky field near the Botkin Hospital. Here, procurement workshops were formed.

http://duks.su/history

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

How many of them were all over Russia if only in Moscow and Moscow region there was 1600.

Give examples.
In my city, within 15 minutes of walking from home, 4 enterprises were destroyed, 2 in 90, 2 in 10.

[Procopius Nesterov]

Well, then look bad. Turn on the search on the page. Here is a screen.

[orcinus]

I remember that six months ago I wrote about this YouTube channel for "unicellular") It seems that it was about shipbuilding, oooh, how the "local hurray-guard" minus me here.

[Vladimir Matveyev]

Do not tell my sneakers.

[paul3390]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Only the Caudla, who plundered and destroyed, at some point was replaced by another team, which began to restore. Already on the basis that came from Caudla. Without much "inheritance", but with colossal debt to the same IMF, for example.

Not really. For it is worth seeing what exactly they type restore. Basically - funds for the sale of resources abroad with the subsequent withdrawal of the same dough received there. For example, LNG development in the north. It seems like the business is necessary - but what for us? Well, will they sell gas for some more there, will anything break off from the people from this? Yes, nevermind there .. And so - in almost all respects. Basically, what is needed and beneficial to the big bourgeoisie, and not to the country and people, is being built. So - I don’t see anything particularly joyful in this ebullient activity ..

[Procopius Nesterov]

Taxes to the budget, jobs, what's wrong? The USSR pulled a pipe to Europe as well .. Competitive goods on the world market. What kind of products do you propose to produce that will occupy its niche and will be competitive?

[TAMBU]

What is going on here?))))))))

[Chaldon48]

In the days of Stalin, among other things, there was also a colossal emotional upsurge of the masses. People just burned themselves at work for the future bright future.

[Procopius Nesterov]

yeah, slaves worked for food cards until 1935, compared to the lives and wages of workers in imperial times, slaves.

[wooja]

another comparison of square with green ...., deflection before the Kremlin counts ....

[Sansculotte]

The difference is very easy to determine.
If under Stalin the results were compared with 1913, the BEST year of the last power
That the results of Putin are compared with the 90s - with the WORST years of the "past" power. Only against their background can Putin overcome. It's as if Stalin compared his achievements with 1921)

[Procopius Nesterov]

Well name the best year of Soviet power, we will compare with these indicators.

[savage1976]

It is impossible to compare people who dream of doing everything to them, and they only get a good salary when a person works and achieves small but small successes.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Procopius Nesterov

Well name the best year of Soviet power, we will compare with these indicators.

It is necessary not to compare in terms of indicators, but in terms of GDP growth, but for comparison, take the GDP of other countries. Do you offer GAZ 21 with Vesta to compare.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Ingvar 72

It is necessary not to compare by indicators, but by GDP growth

Is GDP growth not an indicator?

Quote: Ingvar 72

and for comparison, take the GDP of other countries

Was there a, um, catastrophe there too? By the way, "growth" itself - but what about, "economist"

Quote: Ingvar 72

you offer GAZ 21 with Vesta compare

Well, you compare ... kitty

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Is GDP growth not an indicator?

You slow down Kitty -

Quote: Ingvar 72

and for comparison, take the GDP of other countries.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Ingvar 72

for comparison, take the GDP of other countries

Quote: Golovan Jack

Was there a, um, catastrophe there too? By the way, "growth" itself is about nothing, "economist"

In Nigeria, they say, "growth." But for some reason you don't really strive there, right, kitty? Why? There is also "growth", just a growth

Funny you ... buddy

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Golovan Jack

In Nigeria, they say, "growth."

They say chickens are milked! Add living standards to GDP, and you will be happy.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Standard of living add to GDP

It's not "I add", it's you - add:

Quote: Ingvar 72

and for comparison, take the GDP of other countries

You corrected yourself, well done, kitty

Quote: Ingvar 72

and you will be happy

Not to us, but to you (s).

[Qiman Kyrivo]

Nonsense. Full. City of Rubtsovsk. Altai Territory. Industrialization was successful. Only the ruins of the plants remained.

[Strashila]

Industrialization in a modern design, when a plant for a lard of greens is declared bankrupt without having yet committed to work, industrialization in modern times is when you are told from abroad whether you can produce for export or not. About financial flows aimed at plundering the country is not even worth talking about.

[nikvic46]

Such comparisons are useless. If, after the revolution, most scientists left the country with their labors. After 1991, most of them remained at home. Now the costs of education are high. But to conduct educational program in the country, expenses were also required. Compare, teach people read and write. Another thing is to accept the reading country.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Complete nonsense. We have counted how many enterprises have been commissioned in the Russian Federation. And how many quietly died during this time, they forgot to indicate. Not a word about the growth in the volume of commercial products. So it turns out that, according to such "statistics", the closure of one city-forming plant of the giant and the opening of two locksmith shops give a terribly positive dynamics ...

[7,62x54]

All this Putin's "industrialization" is the construction of enterprises and infrastructure for the extraction of natural resources and their transportation over the hill.

[DNS-a42]

There is only one question for the video: "How much is opium for the people?"

[Ros 56]

On average, we lag behind the pace of Stalinist industrialization not so dramatically: we build 428 objects per year instead of 692.

A small amendment, during the time of Stalin they built 692 from scratch and they went a plus to the full picture, and now they build 428, and how much it took minus existing enterprises during this time, and nowhere, they can’t even be restored. I think everyone had this phenomenon before their eyes. And now, taking into account the killed industries, bring the balance.

[rocket757]

Compare and overtake ..... but is it necessary?
Just remember, but develop in the way that is now possible and optimal.
This is if you do not try to prove that we are going the wrong way and you need to change it ... a separate topic.

[paul3390]

Quote: tracer

not one wants to polish your tinsel?

The polishing has not grown yet, the salabon is inet ..

[bk316]

Somehow recently, the world has gone crazy.
Journalists wrote nonsense, they just didn’t even particularly bother to put some texture under this nonsense.
Although they could write a lot of things right in this direction!
Immediately, other zhurnalyugi wrote their own, supposedly refuting nonsense, also without arguments.
And it happened -the main thing is hype. The most important thing to write to the first!

Get on already. You can’t compare the incomparable, but if you’re trying (I’ll make it), then think a little before writing.

The industrialization of Stalin and Putin cannot be compared primarily because these processes have only a common name. For the dull I will explain. Stalin pushed the country out of the deepest pit (World War I and the Civil War) and dragged it uphill into the ranks of the leading economies of the world. Putin slowed down the remnants of this economy racing from this mountain into the abyss at a wild speed. If it were not for Stalin, Germany would have rolled us to 41, if not for Putin, the United States would have rolled us at the beginning of the XNUMXs. In either case, Russia would no longer be a state. Obviously, both of them coped with their tasks.

[Alexander Ra]

Quote: bk316

Stalin pushed the country out of the deepest pit ... and dragged him uphill into the ranks of the world's leading economies. Putin slowed down the remnants of this economy racing from this mountain into the abyss at a wild speed. If it were not for Stalin, Germany would have rolled us to 41, if not for Putin, the United States would have rolled us at the beginning of the XNUMXs. In either case, Russia would no longer be a state. Obviously, both of them coped with their tasks.

The metaphors are beautiful. But oversimplification. “Both did it” - there is no identity. Under Stalin, hardships and labors melted into strength and contemporaries. Today, by virtue of the state, people are sacrificed, you did not notice - our people were "rolled" - under Putin. And not to pass the "point of no return".

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Alexander Ra

our people "rolled out"

What does this mean in ordinary, human Russian? Translate.

[Alexander Ra]

Neglected the interests of the people. If you do not use the national level, then we have nothing to talk about at all.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Alexander Ra

Neglected the interests of the people

Thanks, that’s more clear.

Quote: Alexander Ra

If you do not use the national level, then we have nothing to talk about at all

But what is the "people's level" that should be "used" is again not entirely clear.

Quote: Alexander Ra

there is nothing to talk about

I’ll say for myself - yes rather than no. Well, as with Gridasov, for example

You express your thoughts too specifically. Not only is the terminology not generally accepted, it is also ambiguous. Have you heard the word "demagoguery"? For some reason I remembered it

[Alexander Ra]

Quote: Golovan Jack

But what is the "people's level"

- An individual is a clan (tribe) is a people. A common mutual interest works on a collective-national level, as on this site, for example. We use the interindividual level in personal practical matters.

Quote: Golovan Jack

there is nothing to talk about

I’ll say for myself - yes rather than no.

- Be determined by yourself and be consistent.
It is difficult to discern a desire to receive information in your questions. But one can clearly see the desire to “roll out” the statements of others. This role - once again I will not please with terms - a mental destructor, a utilizer and gives away with misanthropy, but I would like everyone to EXPRESS their thoughts.

Quote: Golovan Jack

You express your thoughts too specifically.

- any tools and methods - metalwork, scientific and so on. specific, like any word. Again, sort it out yourself - which garden to plow, which not, everyone will not adapt to the specificity of your perception. Thank you for the criticism.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Alexander Ra

any tools and methods - metalwork, scientific and so on. specific like any word

You see ... a good specialist, as a rule, knows how to clearly and simply state what he is a specialist in. I have repeatedly seen this myself.

The overload of speech with "special" (or, more simply, personally invented) terms is characteristic, for example, of the local Gridasov ... well, you get the idea, probably.

Quote: Alexander Ra

everyone will not adapt to the specificity of your perception

Don't want to be understood - well, keep inventing words and concepts

Quote: Alexander Ra

It is difficult to discern a desire to receive information in your questions. But one can clearly see the desire to “roll out” the statements of others

I am absolutely not interested in someone there to "roll out". I received the information that I wanted to receive. thanks for communication

[Stalnov I.P.]

Why the whole conversation, they wrote a lot about these numbers, they talked. There’s nothing to add. The whole thing is that the current leaders NEVER WILL BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE WHAT THE PEOPLE AND STALIN HAVE DONE, because of this they and HISTORY do not change these figures. They say that in that period, people worked better, more productively, were more honest, disciplined, responsible, intelligent. Born to crawl, can’t fly.

[Sapsan136]

Under Stalin, for 1941, the USSR had 6 latest cruisers of the Kirov type, with a displacement of over 9000 tons ... Under Putin, the surface fleet of the Russian Federation received only 6 frigates, much smaller ...

[trophy]

"Time forward". What a name! Clowns are poor.

[bbss]

Bullshit! The owner of the country was the people, and now a bunch of nouveau riche bloodsuckers.

[Ehanatone]

"in Omsk - a solar power plant, in the Kursk region - a pig farm"
And what’s not at the joint venture, there is generally all summer light!

[Ehanatone]

"And it RAPED - the main hype. The most important thing is to write to the first!"
Tires - they will find a fashionable word and pop into all holes!