Katyn is an instrument of ideological, informational, hybrid warfare

One of historical events, which are actively discussed in our country and abroad (primarily in Poland), are associated with events in the area of ​​the village of Katyn, Smolensk region. A huge number of controversies, legends and outright black myths circulate around the Katyn events of many years ago - so many that the reconstruction of a real historical picture now plays a very important role.

They tried to understand the situation in the next issue on the Day TV channel, where Aleksey Plotnikov, doctor of historical sciences, became a guest. Professor Plotnikov is one of the leading experts in Russia on the issue of Katyn events.

Alexey Plotnikov:

Katyn is an instrument of ideological, informational, hybrid warfare. Katyn theme is important for our enemies weapons to destroy the integrity of our consciousness.

At the end of the 80, as Professor Plotnikov notes, it was precisely the destruction of consciousness among the citizens of our country. On such subjects as “crimes of the Stalinist regime in Katyn” a whole ideological line was built, which led to the fact that many people simply stopped loving their country. A complex of guilt was instilled into the consciousness, the need to constantly repent and abandon one’s past.
Reflections of Professor Aleksey Plotnikov on the air of “Day TV”, in the program about the Katyn scam:

Comments

[Hunter 2]

But do we really need this complex? After - what is happening with the monuments of Soviet Warriors of the Liberators, in Poland?
The traitor and Judah - Brokeback ... handed over incomprehensible documents ... What and How - is incomprehensible! I am sure that the Nazis shot.

[AU Ivanov.]

According to Polish sources, at least 1920 Russians died in Polish camps in 80000. So, it doesn’t matter who shot the Poles: what measure you take - that’s how you will be measured.

[Alex_You]

In the Polish camps in 1920, according to Polish data, at least 80000 Russians died

And where did 80000 Russians come from in Polish camps in 20?

[AU Ivanov.]

According to the results of the war with Poland in 1920. Thanks to Tukhachevsky’s military talent, about 160 thousand were captured. Only half of this amount returned home. Mortality in Polish camps was no lower than in Hitler's.

[rocket757]

Quote: Hunter 2

But do we really need this complex?

To be honest, I would pack everything and send them in wagons! To fight the dead with the dead ... let's just return those who are exactly identified as Polish citizens ... the old monument is there.
And we should make the burial of our citizens, let them rest in peace.

[Dmitry Potapov]

Yes, only we don’t overthrow their skeletons, we don’t recall the Polish intervention (although we should do this often), we have to raise the question with an edge, do not want to have monuments to our wars at home, take yours from us! And let different evil spirits feel shame for the history of Russia, and I am proud of the history of my country.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Hunter 2

Traitor and Judah - Brokeback ... handed over, incomprehensible documents ...

The fact that the humpbacked Judah is not in dispute, only the documents were handed over and repented to the Poles by Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev.
Although Comrade Ilyukhin made a report on Katyn, proving in this report that the Poles were shot by fascists!

[Greg Miller]

Quote: Hunter 2

But do we really need this complex? After - what is happening with the monuments of Soviet Warriors of the Liberators, in Poland?
The traitor and Judah - Brokeback ... handed over incomprehensible documents ... What and How - is incomprehensible! I am sure that the Nazis shot.

We, ordinary citizens, definitely do not need it, but for the ruling in Russia, a pack of offshore maggots, it is extremely necessary! Indeed, despite all the contradictions between Putin and his Polish counterpart Duda, in the fight against the memory of a truly glorious Soviet past, they are loyal allies to each other.
PS I pass this "Memorial" in Katyn almost every week, a couple of years ago I even went there ... And what is in the last 3 photos was not there yet ...

[Etienne]

Hunter 2 I'm sure that the Nazis shot.

Main Military Prosecutor's Office - The Main Military Prosecutor's Office classified all materials on the Katyn case, without bringing them to court. It was the documents that Mr. Shakhrai used in the Constitutional Court in the KPSS case on Katyn that were recognized as fake and were not considered by the court. It is also interesting that Germany did not even try to support Goebbels's version. She was silent - as she took water in her mouth. And what is more surprising, from Poland, which most of all shouts about the "bloody NKVD", there was not a single official statement about the refusal of the GVP to transfer materials on Katyn to the Court! In general, no matter how strained the gentlemen (former comrades), all the steam went back to GUDOK.

[rocket757]

EVERYONE has skeletons in their closets! Especially in such a terrible period of the existence of mankind, as the great, bloody wars of the 20th century!
You can’t forget anything, so as not to make similar and other mistakes!

[Vogel]

What are the skeletons? Sewn with white thread everything. It’s not clear to Vova and Dima why they bowed to the pshek. So they and Yeltsincentr banged ...

[rocket757]

Quote: Vogel

Sewn with white thread everything.

Everything, everything is straight sewn?
Any business must be completed and put a bullet point on that. Only do it publicly, objectively, so that we are sure that EVERYTHING, THE BUSINESS IS CLOSED!
There Smolensk disaster ... the investigation was conducted, the case is closed!
The Poles tried to arrange a screech, only ANYTHING IS NOT INTERESTING TO ANYONE! because everything, the case is closed and the DOT.

[Mcar]

Quote: rocket757

Everything, everything is straight sewn?

Yes, that's all. Are there doubts? So you have no doubt - the Germans shot the Poles.

[Alexander Suvorov]

McAr (Alexander)
Yes, that's all. Are there doubts? So you have no doubt - the Germans shot the Poles.

Although I’m sure that the Poles were shot by the Germans, I must agree with the commentator above. In principle, we had the full moral right to shoot them for the atrocities that they committed to our prisoners. And indeed, for all the evil that Poland has brought us throughout our joint history, we had every right to destroy them almost without exception. In 1945, we had exactly the same right to do everything with Germany and its people, up to and including complete destruction. But we are Russians, we have a wide soul, we are compassionate over those whom we defeated. Therefore, instead of destroying the German people, who by the way were still mostly Nazi-minded, we fed them from the field kitchens, often taking them off from us, but giving them to the German children so that when they grow up they safely forget who they really owe their lives to.
But nothing, we are not vindictive, we just have a long memory, someday let’s remember the Poles, the Germans, and every kolyamsurengoy too, they will answer for everything at once.

[rocket757]

It is good to have a "long" memory and you can be angry, although this is just not good ..... but you must always remain a person!
Smear why, why, I won’t, I’ll just remain a person, and not vindictive, vicious .........

[The leader of the Redskins]

in principle, we had the full moral right to shoot them for the atrocities that they committed by our prisoners.
Did not have. For we ourselves will become the same beast. There are conventions that must be followed.

[rocket757]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

Did not have. For we ourselves will become the same beast. There are conventions that must be followed.

At the expense of conventions and other "international and general human" ... this is of course pf-e!
You must always be NORMAL people! In all cases, always!

[Doctor]

And indeed, for all the evil that Poland has brought us throughout our joint history, we had every right to destroy them almost without exception.

And what evil did they bring to us throughout our joint history?

[rocket757]

Quote: Arzt

And what evil did they bring to us throughout our joint history?

Evil is a very .... loose concept, therefore there is no legal one, for example.
Mutual claims regarding specific events ... here measured by claims back and forth, pointless! Those who can be presented, have long been gone, and such sophisticated / perverted memorability will not bring anyone any good!
We must live in the future .... not forgetting the past, of course, but only in order not to make the previous mistakes!

[rocket757]

Quote: McAr

Yes, that's all. Are there doubts? So you have no doubt - the Germans shot the Poles.

I have no doubt in the correctness of the decision made by our bodies at that moment.
I do not like the bodyagion, which is brewed NOW, at the very top!
Here is a Yankee flight to the moon ... there was an OFFICIAL statement by the Soviet leadership that a fact had a place to be and NONE of the upper, official, never said anything else .... I accept this fact! And until the opposite is proved, the previous official statement is disavowed, all sorts of conjectures DO NOT interest me!

[Mcar]

Quote: rocket757

Quote: McAr

Yes, that's all. Are there doubts? So you have no doubt - the Germans shot the Poles.

I have no doubt in the correctness of the decision made by our bodies at that moment.
I do not like the bodyagion, which is brewed NOW, at the very top!
Here is a Yankee flight to the moon ... there was an OFFICIAL statement by the Soviet leadership that a fact had a place to be and NONE of the upper, official, never said anything else .... I accept this fact! And until the opposite is proved, the previous official statement is disavowed, all sorts of conjectures DO NOT interest me!

My friend, but this position does not remind you: Shaw? The general said? .. Well, actually the crocodile flies. Only low, low.

Tomorrow they will tell you to consider green to blue, blue to orange, and orange to purple ... So what? Ask what time is it? After all, speculation is not of interest.

You never know what OFFICIOSIS stamps. The head is on the shoulders not only to have it. I also don’t feel like a kneeling Putin about Katyn. So what? Tomorrow they will sell us for meat - will we agree?

And by the way, not a single earthman has ever been on the moon.

[rocket757]

Quote: McAr

The head is on the shoulders not only to have it.

Man, did you want to express something to me? ..... and read, carefully, WHAT was officially announced? ... "By means of technical control it was established that the transmission was carried out from the SURFACE of the earth satellite!" - and EVERYTHING! the Soviet leadership did not declare anything else ...
that the Soviet government did not try to confirm or disprove all other documents, photos, movies, because they could objectively prove that it would be reinforced, ours could not. Very reasonable approach, don’t you?
It's not in vain that the Yankees declared "the zone of their first landing on the moon" untouchable territory ... this is a treasury of evidence that they ... do not tell the truth!
The truth will come out anyway, but it’s so overwhelming that no one can blather against anything.

Quote: McAr

And by the way, not a single earthman has ever been on the moon.

But I would rather believe this than "Hollywood and State Department fairy tales." But, we will wait for the official conclusions.
PS ... by the way, if the general says to jump upside down or with an umbrella ... I will demand a parachute, at least ... this is the REGULATION and the charter does not contradict this.

[at84432384]

The Katyn case was closed in 2004. And classified. Obviously, the successors of Yeltsin's rule of power had something to hide, but rotten and corrupt government can hide nothing. During the exhumation of corpses, the GVP discovered steel casings produced by the Gekko company (for the Walter pistol). The Gekko company switched to the production of such casings after Hitler's order in July ... 1941. The exhumation was attended by representatives of the Polish prosecutor's office, as well as a bunch of all "democratic" trash, when it is simply impossible to hide information. And the picture is typical for modern Russia: everything is clear, but it is impossible to prove. Here in this video, the historian refers to circumstantial evidence, knowing that there is direct and non-killing, but it cannot be officially appealed to, it is forbidden. On the internet there is a photo of both these casings and Walter pistols found in the graves (Soviet soldiers were criminally liable for weapons). I mean, sometimes you have to make a decision yourself whether to put a "bullet", or wait for someone to put it.

[rocket757]

Quote: at84432384

And the result is a picture typical of modern Russia: everything is clear, but it cannot be proved.

It was necessary to put a fat, final point, right away ... excessive secrecy, incompleteness of the process allows the current, different, to carry all nonsense! Even worse, this tramp has the fact of being at the very top.
Ugh, looking at all this is disgusting.

[Doctor]

Gekko's company switched over to the production of such cartridges after Hitler's order in July ... 1941.

The issue of the weapons used during the executions of Polish prisoners of war arose during the exhumation of the graves of victims of massacres carried out by the German commission in 1943. In the report of the German commission of G. Butts 1943 it was indicated:

[i] Pistol ammunition of this brand, used in Katyn, has been manufactured at the Gustav Genschow & Co. factory for many years. AG in Durlach near Karlsruhe (Baden). The clarification received from the company [2] indicates changes in the marking of pistol cartridge cases over the past ten to fifteen years. The marking of the cartridges found in Katyn allows us to confidently conclude that the ammunition used for the execution was manufactured in Durkhlakh in 1922-31 years. [/I]

[at84432384]

And you wanted a different conclusion from the commission sent by Goebbels? What to do with steel sleeves ?! They were only produced in the middle of 41, and they were found there. This is 100% proof.

[Doctor]

And you wanted a different conclusion from the commission sent by Goebbels? What to do with steel sleeves ?! They were only produced in the middle of 41, and they were found there. This is 100% proof.

Weapons, bullets and cartridges are the most reliable proof in any crime. If the Germans fabricated evidence, then of course they would have found a couple of thousand rounds of ammunition from the TT, by 1943 they had this good. It is simply unbelievable that the Germans didn’t take this into account.
So yes, this is 100% proof, but only the other way.

[Vogel]

So there is no twine either, and the method of execution and preparation for execution are absolutely not accepted in the USSR. What guided our graces, is unclear. The occupation administration is not otherwise ...

[anjey]

And what to repent of, the WWII began, Poland refused to help the USSR, maintaining a hostile position towards us after the Polish campaign of 1921, we were captured a lot of irreconcilable enemies, the USSR and its own were in abundance, and the conflict with Germany, despite the pact, it was predicted, sooner or later, at the top.
It was fraught to have irreconcilable captured Poles in the rear, the Bohemian bloody rebellion of 1918 was still in memory, and they made a tough decision to shoot the revealed and most implacable enemies. The Germans, in turn, attacked the USSR and discovered a burial place in Katyn twice as many killed Soviet citizens and buried there, dumping everything on Stalin and the Communist Party ...

[rocket757]

There is something to be presented by the Pole, and not a little .... our long patience and other nonsense comes out of the country.

[anjey]

By the way, where are the monuments to our captive Red Army soldiers in Poland (the Belopolsky War of 1919-1921), What can we talk about, seeing what sophisticated devilry they get up with the monuments of the Soviet soldiers who died with German fascists.
To hell with repentance to the pre-remembered, Western human-like Russophobic creatures, mainly who are now in power in Poland, it is certainly not correct to speak like this for the whole people, of course, but this die-hard Polish "one-sided position" has already got it ..

[rocket757]

Let them rage .... if the grabs are pulled by someone else's, then they will receive it.
We must go about our business, we all benefit, the rest do not, will disappear by itself.

[Jerk]

Damn, what are we talking about? How many Soviet prisoners of war returned alive from Poland after the Soviet-Polish war? Why so little? Maybe because, for example, Polish zholner practiced cutting techniques on Soviet prisoners of war? And this is a war crime, and after the disintegration (liquidation) of the state of Poland, many of these "heroes" ended up in the development of our law enforcement agencies. And what do you want to do with such zholneers? There, pure water is the highest measure, I do not even understand, why the heck would we be ashamed of shooting Polish war criminals ?! Although it is very vague about who exactly shot them. You can just remember that there are songs about the bloody Stalinist regime, he killed everyone, only one remained. The truth is not to understand in any way - since everyone was killed, who is running at the parades of veterans of the SS troops in Ukraine and in the Triboltik? It means that not everyone was found there and shot in 60 years after the war, but in Poland everyone was killed in a year ...

[your1970]

Quote: Jerk

The truth cannot be understood - since they killed everyone, who runs in Ukraine and Triboltik at parades of SS veterans?

Do you believe in those SS Veterans?????
Where, in which processions can a person participate in at least 90 years of age (so that he is at least 15 years old in 1945) ??
The bulk of real veterans died long ago ......

[Jerk]

Kuchma - who? Yes, and "death always takes the best", so these wiped out should generally live - forever

[Alexander Suvorov]

sv1970 (Sergey)
Do you believe in those SS veterans ?????

Well, of course, there really was nobody left alive, but their children, who at the time of 1945 were a year or two, or even less, got Nazi awards from their caches, Nazi tunics sewed themselves and now march bravely across Vilnius, Riga and Tallinn. It makes no difference to us which of these disadvantages to bury, fathers or their degenerates. We do not understand the grades of shit, all to the scrap ... definitely!

[Vogel]

Kravchuk, the first hohlopresik, from the messengers of the OUN, well, and he is not alone, I think, he is alive.

[your1970]

"Leonid Danilovich Kuchma (Ukrainian. Leonid Danilovich Kuchma; born August 9 1938 (!!!!!!!), Chaikino, Novgorod-Seversky district, Chernigov region, Ukrainian SSR, USSR) "- also consciously fought with Radyanska Vlad in the ranks of the SS ??? oh how ...
I thought at the age of 6 years do not join the SS ....
maximum could Bandera after the war, drag fat into caches .... and then by his conscious age they were practically dispersed ...

"Leonid Makarovich Kravchuk (Ukrainian. Leonid Makarovich Kravchuk; born January 10 1934, the village of Veliky Zhitin, Volyn Voivodeship, the Polish Republic "is also no other than an SS veteran (who joined at the age of 10). However, this one could have had time to banter after the war a little ...

[Ross xnumx]

From this video it became clear to me that the era of the HMS was the beginning of the "fifth column" procession, which marked the beginning of the destruction of the USSR statehood. Now it became clear where this "toothlessness" of the GMC came from in relation to the representatives of the coup d'etat - the EBN and the company from where these Chubais, Gaidars and other evil spirits could emerge, with an effect growing like a snowball.

[Mcar]

Around the Katyn events of many years ago there is a huge amount of controversy, legends and frank black myths - so much that the reconstruction of a real historical picture now plays a very important role.

Yes, there are no "disputes, legends and outright black myths" here. There are 3-4 badly slapped fakes. Dot. There is nothing else. Everything else that is, from bullet holes in the skulls to the bunker built by the Nazis, irrefutably testifies that the Poles were shot by the Germans.

By the way, we ourselves should wrinkle our foreheads less on this topic and, in a worried and bewildered tone, broadcast about "disputes, legends and outright black myths" in the context of Katyn - it can become expensive. To each.

[Doctor]

Everything else that is, starting from bullet holes in turtles

What about bullet holes?

[apro]

The story of Katyn is not Poland’s blow to Russia. It’s a blow from the Kremlin to the USSR ....

[Livonetc]

Katyn is not a tool.
This is a tragedy from a series of tragedies of the 20th century.
But those who humiliate the memory of the dead, using the tragedy for their own low goals, are a dumb, mean tool.

[nikvic46]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

According to Polish sources, at least 1920 Russians died in Polish camps in 80000. So, it doesn’t matter who shot the Poles: what measure you take - that’s how you will be measured.

This is very important for us. You should not give trump cards to Polish propaganda. This was important during the war. Because during the hostilities there was also an information war. During the war, a film was released where the USA, Great Britain and the USSR exhumed and, as corpses, was an unambiguous conclusion was made. The shooting was carried out by the Germans.

[Aleksey412]

No joint exhumation of the corpses of the USSR, the USA and Great Britain was carried out. Not a single person from among the allies was invited to the Burdenko commission, even the Poles from the Polish Army who fought on our side.
One day, foreign journalists were brought to the excavation site. One of them, Sunday Times correspondent Edmund Stevenson later recalled:
"Nikolai Burdenko, an outstanding Soviet surgeon, accompanied us. His thankless, not to say impossible, task was to convince us that the Germans were responsible for this massacre. Burdenko and his assistants, no doubt, were instructed, but their messages seemed strained and unconvincing "

[Karabin]

On such subjects as “crimes of the Stalinist regime in Katyn” a whole ideological line was built, which led to the fact that many people simply stopped loving their country. A complex of guilt was instilled into the consciousness, the need to constantly repent and abandon one’s past

...

[Alexander Suvorov]

Well, yes, the case of the Khrushchev-tagged-drunk lives and thrives on the lush growth of terry Russophobia. And the Kremlin didn’t hit a finger to pinch the tail of this Russophobia at least somewhere in the world.

[Karabin]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

And the Kremlin didn’t hit a finger to pinch the tail at least somewhere in the world

How to pinch your tail, if on your knees you crawl and pour mud on the country that you raised and defended by the oath?

[Aleksey412]

From the memorandum of the Polish embassy in Moscow to the Soviet government of May 19, 1942:
"... Although the Soviet authorities have exact lists of former Polish prisoners of war who, for an unknown reason for the Polish side, cannot return to the battlefield, meeting Soviet wishes and to facilitate the search for the missing, General Sikorsky, Commander-in-Chief and Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the commander of the Polish armed forces in the USSR, General Anders, on March 18, 1942, handed the lists requested by it to the Soviet side.
The above lists with great difficulty were compiled from the memory of the few former prisoners of war from Kozelsk, Starobelsk and Ostashkov, who, for one reason or another, managed to escape the fate of the officers taken out of these camps in 1940.

... None of these people have yet returned to the ranks of the army, no one has made themselves felt. "

On June 13, 1942, the Polish embassy sends a new note to the Soviet government, which, inter alia, states:

"... In a number of negotiations with high-ranking representatives of the USSR authorities, the issue of the release of the military who were in the camps Kozelsk, Starobelsk and Ostashkov was raised. These camps were liquidated in 1940, and the prisoners of war were taken out in an unknown direction in April and May of the same year. and every trace of them has been lost. ”The NKID has not yet provided the embassy with any explanations on this matter.
... The Embassy of the Rzecz Pospolita will be extremely obliged for the soonest possible answer on the issue of former prisoners of war from the camps Kozelsk, Starobelsk and Ostashkov, especially since 30 months have passed since the conclusion of the agreement of July 1941, 10 ... "

[nikvic46]

What I’m now writing about the USSR, I heard back in 60 years on different radio voices. A big request. Write in your own words. And you are unlearned from some kind of literature. Otherwise, you become hostages to the ideology in which you generally will not believe in anything. This is probably the main goal of this bacchanalia.

[Aleksey412]

"Write in your own words. And not learned from some literature."

Nobody writes historical documents in their own words, they simply quote them, which was done.
And about "your words" ... You wrote above in your own words about the fact that the USA, Great Britain and the USSR carried out a joint exhumation of the Katyn corpses - and it turned out that you were simply misleading the respectable public. And if they cited a document, there would be at least some benefit.