Military Review

How to make out hazing

295

No hazing, you say?


In this article I want to present a slightly different view of things. We saw the look of Alexei Roshchin, saw the opposite Roman Skomorokhovand now I will present my own, so to speak, from fresh memories. The author served in the valiant troops of the National Guard (abbr. VNG) from the winter of 2016 to the winter of 2017. Someone may notice that VNG is not the Ministry of Defense (abbr. MO) and there are other orders, but this is not so. When communicating with the guys from neighboring parts of Moscow Region, it became clear that the situation there is the same.


How to make out hazing


To begin with, I would like to draw attention to some places by the author Skomorokhov, which made me smile:
Because the author, who clearly did not serve a single day, did not know that serving in a dress was another thing. That is, they go to the outfit in turn. Or as a disciplinary sanction, the outfit is out of turn, if someone messed up. But so - I agree, there is a reason for contacting The Hague. So to violate human rights ...


Well, I don’t know of course whether this was ever so, perhaps now in some parts. Is there a schedule of outfits? Of course I have. Do guys walk on it in outfits? No. Here, probably, it should be clarified. There is such a problem or a fact how to look at it: approximately 20-25 percent of the personnel are representatives of the North Caucasus region. I'm talking about the parts adjacent to major cities (Moscow, St. Petersburg and so on). These guys are not in the outfit. That is, in general. Many officers and warrant officers simply do not want to contact them, because even if this soldier enters the outfit, most likely he will simply shift the duties to other orderlies. And no one will say anything. Tribesmen intercede for him, and no one will intercede for the Russian boys. Can officers besiege them? Yes. I even saw: three times a year. How do they gain outfit? They take two sensible soldiers, who then themselves choose the poor fellow for washing toilets. And there wasn’t much choice there, we had three soldiers, one held the unofficial position “ZamPoOch”, the deputy brigade commander for washing the toilets (that's not once hazing, aha), and two of his assistants. And they had no choice, they washed the toilets in the company, if they got into the medical unit, washed them there, in the fields they dug up the toilet and washed it, and so on until the end of the service.

That's all, thanks, enough. Standing on one leg for several hours a day - everything is clear. "I did not serve, but I condemn it in advance." Personally, in the most terrible times of the bloody Soviet past, in preparation for the most massive action - the Parade on Red Square, I did not stand on one leg for hours. Like all the participants, I guess. What I hasten to notify Mr. Roshchin, but he is unlikely to believe me.


Well, here Russia overtook the hated USSR! There were parades, starting in February, in the wonderful frosts of St. Petersburg, after the morning divorce, the guys stood for two hours (for the sake of fairness I will say, they change their legs in one and a half minutes), then for ten minutes they warm themselves in the company and drink tea, and stand back two hours before lunch . Well, after lunch we marched before dinner. They spent a month in this state, then in the morning they just started marching. Probably necessary, the parade is still, but still controversial.

Everyone is now happy that the soldiers are not beaten in the army, but an achievement! That's just such a thought did not arise in my head when, in the first month of service, three half-year-olds beat a soldier in the shower for refusing to give one of their new registered socks and take in exchange for footcloths. And the company washed itself behind the wall, everyone heard, but pretended that there was nothing. 2017 year! And laughter and sin. And the paramedic who examined before bedtime and saw the marks on the body simply grunted and left. Many may say that this is an isolated case. No matter how. Soldiers in the army are beaten (not all and not always, but still), and other soldiers, and sergeants, and even officers (but officers less often, I can recall four cases in a year). But why doesn't this all pop up? Where are the criminal cases? Everything is simple: the scheme is the same. The beaten soldier goes to the headquarters, and the headquarters offers transfer, demobilization, any relief, if only история not surfaced. But the soldiers usually don’t need more, as far as I remember, only the guy who broke his collarbone got to the prosecutor’s office.

In 2017, a convoy of vehicles following the Victory Parade crashed. Does anyone remember how a soldier is placed in the Urals? Three benches, two along the sides and one in the center, with 11 soldiers on each, no belts, no strong structures. And now - the blow of four cars. 70 people were beaten to varying degrees of severity. Only one was released from the parade, to which a piece of the shutter of a broken machine gun entered his leg. The rest with painkillers - go ahead! And again: where are the criminal cases? But not them.

How they “eradicated” it


And now I will share my observations why hazing was “eradicated”, and soldiers periodically shoot and die. Firstly, I was unpleasantly struck by the similarity of the military units (during my service I visited three) with the prison and its concepts. I'll explain now. If you yourself have faded during the initial period of service, your place is on the “bucket”. The toilet is your place until the end of the service. If you were hit or somehow showed an improper relationship, then an attempt to turn to your superiors is perceived as "squealing." An attempt to turn to the psychologist of the unit, generally an attempt to turn to medrot, means "deviators" who do not want to serve. By force I took one guy there who said that it wasn’t "manly," in a semi-conscious state - pneumonia turned out to be. With appropriate attitude to them. Contracted servicemen encourage theft, if not, steal. Who do you want. If you want to sort things out, welcome to the dryer (there are no cameras there). Do the officers know about this? Yes. Officers of the Northwest Headquarters? Yes. Headquarters officers? Of course, yes, they simply don’t care, they have more important tasks, plans for the offensive, probably.

Secondly. It has been suggested that hazing is allowed by officers, dropping everything on sergeants. But some time ago, the position of DORS was introduced - a duty officer of the management team. An officer who is in the company for a day. And here we are witnessing a transformation. The actions for the soldiers remain the same, but the term changes. Hazing smoothly flows into statistism. Crawling in bulletproof vests under the beds? Why not. Bring foam in a company in chemical suits and body armor, jumping on one leg? Let's. To stand with stools in outstretched arms? Wrap two. The main thing is not to hit the face. Duty?! Yes! Drive them like dogs! Well and further in this vein. It’s just when grandfathers did it - it’s a violation of the Criminal Code and the charter, when contractors do it - it’s collective education measures. Double standarts.

Thirdly. Solyanka. Can someone explain to me what kind of practice it is - to replace criminal punishment with service? Adult foreheads caught in hooliganism, property damage, robbery, light bodily and other things offer instead of a term a place in the armed forces. A fifth of the personnel from the Caucasians, a fifth of the half-criminals, two fifth of the stupid come from the villages and a fifth of the caught or surrendered deviators. A year in one place without a normal amount of food, cigarettes, without a normal clothing supply, with constant lack of sleep are spent by people who are different in life beliefs, age (from 18 to 27 years) and religious beliefs. Sergeants were recruited from these people. And at the same time - the indifference of the officers. I can smell the equal right!

In our army there is no hazing, there are no grandfathers there long ago, as they switched to the annual system. It’s worth learning at least that.


I like to command ...


Well look. There was an army. And there was hazing in her, which, for all her problems, was a pretty effective way to manage personnel. And suddenly abandon her? Everything is simpler. He served himself a soldier, served, realized that he liked to command, and signed a contract for two years. He is no longer a grandfather, we do not have such a term, he is now a contract sergeant. What do you think a person wants to sign a contract in the environment described above? This is the result we get.

I am infinitely glad (without irony) that we have parts where everything is fine. I am happy for the artillerymen, communications troops, construction battalions, missile forces, EW troops, which now look more like an annual amusement park. What will we do with the rest of the infantry? WITH tank troops? With the main body of the army? Further say that everything is fine there? And the soldiers will shoot at each other.

Hazing in the army IS. It is NOT uprooted and will never be. In one form or another, it is present in all the armies of all countries. And it will continue to be. So, if someone is lucky to get to where it is less, does not mean that others will not get to where it is more.
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  1. Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 7 November 2019 15: 19 New
    -41
    Author, why are you so ... hazing has always been. It was much more serious than you say. So what now? Guys transferred to Russia? Oh hell, fell off the bench ... Here's the tragedy ... Everyone went through this - no need to make yourself special.
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 7 November 2019 15: 45 New
      47
      And at VO, isn't it? Here a pack of "grandfathers" in a crowd pounces on one if something does not suit them. They seem to be adults, but they behave like punks from a special detention center.
      1. Sergey Averchenkov
        Sergey Averchenkov 7 November 2019 15: 57 New
        -13
        Are you complaining to me? Understand yourself. They are what? Are you being beaten? Can't you answer them? Stop it, it’s just sugar compared to CA.
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 7 November 2019 16: 08 New
          11
          Are you complaining to me?

          Where did you see the complaint? Just a statement of fact.
          Stop it, it’s just sugar compared to CA.

          Why not with RA?
          1. Sergey Averchenkov
            Sergey Averchenkov 7 November 2019 16: 21 New
            +1
            I do not know RA, served in CA 84-86.
            1. VeteranVSSSR
              VeteranVSSSR 7 November 2019 22: 37 New
              +4
              Spirit DMB 77/79
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 8 November 2019 08: 11 New
                +4
                Quote: VeteranVSSSR
                Spirit DMB 77/79

                90-92. Hazing without kinks is normal. With compatriots, everything is much more complicated. in our country, the Uzbeks kept the "bump", and they did not care. how long have you served. You get hooked on one, sort of like giving it to him, but you still get rid of the others.
                1. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 8 November 2019 19: 13 New
                  17
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Quote: VeteranVSSSR
                  Spirit DMB 77/79

                  90-92. Hazing without kinks is normal. With compatriots, everything is much more complicated. in our country, the Uzbeks kept the "bump", and they did not care. how long have you served. You get hooked on one, sort of like giving it to him, but you still get rid of the others.

                  80s-90s. There is no hazing without excesses, no need to fantasize. It's easy with the community - a leader for 2-3 days in the basement with educational work. Then the l / s is informed that the Uzbeks are surprisingly sick with broken kidneys. If you do not lose vigilance, no one particularly companions. As soon as a hint of the Ingush, for example, one of them is invited to the carpet, for a start, perspectives are simply drawn in case "if something". God forbid, something happens, a nefromal leader in the basement, on others - criminal cases, disbat. And at the same time, constant pressure - there is one nationality in the army - soldiers. In the army, there should be no hazing, no compatriotism, there should be a sergeant, and the choice of a sergeant was always a question in units where the platoon commander is a sergeant, not an ensign. Force a Chechen to wash the toilet? Yes, easily! 3 days in the company of the nearest disbat, and no problems. But this was an extreme case, usually they settled this issue themselves. There was such a law for lieutenants - not yet 100% sure that you are in order - you live in a company.
                  1. VeteranVSSSR
                    VeteranVSSSR 8 November 2019 19: 35 New
                    -1
                    This is how the shpaki lived ...
                    1. Doliva63
                      Doliva63 9 November 2019 17: 45 New
                      0
                      Quote: VeteranVSSSR
                      This is how the shpaki lived ...

                      I'm talking about personnel, actually. Blazers (but not shpaki) we had translators. These houses usually lived.
                      1. VeteranVSSSR
                        VeteranVSSSR 9 November 2019 17: 48 New
                        -1
                        And I'm talking about personnel, the letter after VU who? - `` shpak '' and you don't need to go to the grandmother ...
                      2. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 9 November 2019 18: 15 New
                        0
                        Quote: VeteranVSSSR
                        And I'm talking about personnel, the letter after VU who? - `` shpak '' and you don't need to go to the grandmother ...

                        Not reflected, however. Chew the slow-witted.
                2. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 8 November 2019 20: 15 New
                  +3
                  In theory, everything is simple, but when there are only 20 Russians in a company of the whole composition (including Belarusians, Ukrainians), I would have looked how you could have put the theory into practice.
                  Quote: Doliva63
                  Make a Chechen toilet wash?

                  I once saw how they tried to force a Chechen to wash the floor on a "quiche". He was shoved into the trash with rifle butts and truncheons, but he did not wash the floor. I won't say for all the Czechs, but this one was stubborn.
                  1. Wolverine
                    Wolverine 9 November 2019 10: 35 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    In theory, everything is simple, but when there are only 20 Russians in a company of the whole composition (including Belarusians, Ukrainians), I would have looked how you could have put the theory into practice.
                    Quote: Doliva63
                    Make a Chechen toilet wash?

                    I once saw how they tried to force a Chechen to wash the floor on a "quiche". He was shoved into the trash with rifle butts and truncheons, but he did not wash the floor. I won't say for all the Czechs, but this one was stubborn.

                    Haha, a letter to parents and relatives about how gloriously their offspring serves and that's it.
                  2. Doliva63
                    Doliva63 9 November 2019 17: 49 New
                    0
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    In theory, everything is simple, but when there are only 20 Russians in a company of the whole composition (including Belarusians, Ukrainians), I would have looked how you could have put the theory into practice.
                    Quote: Doliva63
                    Make a Chechen toilet wash?

                    I once saw how they tried to force a Chechen to wash the floor on a "quiche". He was shoved into the trash with rifle butts and truncheons, but he did not wash the floor. I won't say for all the Czechs, but this one was stubborn.

                    I was not talking about my part, but just about those who have "only 20 Russians", from time to time we helped them to restore order among the l / s. We didn't have such problems.
                  3. VeteranVSSSR
                    VeteranVSSSR 9 November 2019 18: 09 New
                    0
                    Well, I don’t know how it is possible to eat bacon, but how to wash a jerk !!!
                    I served right for a long time, but ... let's talk about sexuality. In the location, i.e. in the Liftovo barracks there are notable corridors, and the floors in the Hermitage ... are parquet, however, and that they were characteristically dirty right away.
                    How to deal with this? Wash correctly, so that they do not dry out.
                    Here, many speak of veterancy, hazing, not a mouthful relationship, but on the floors, as a rule, the punishment was worked out not by spirits, but already held Warriors ...
                    And believe me, three meters of the floor, this is not the sun on the horizontal bar to twist.
                    The procedure is simple: the parquet (length depends on the punishment) is urinated with water, a disc of scintillation (tank) is taken, wrapped with two close-up rugs and ... went to goblet.
                    You know, I always thought how Peter’s Liftov’s sidekick was, the barracks were built in the distant shaggy year, and the parquet wasn’t scraped.
                    It seems that the Preobrazhensky Regiment is there now and I'm sure that `` sex life '' hasn't changed a single gram ...
                3. nznz
                  nznz 12 November 2019 09: 38 New
                  0
                  thank you, old man, I wrote the right things. Where a person has a dignity, he organizes work so that they do not humiliate others. For humiliating others, the educational basement is forgiven. Although this is a crime, the guys will not be spoiled by the rest. I would distribute 2 Caucasians per company. On Novaya Zemlya (I was already there at 28-30 years old) they were brought there, some wise guy came up with to break ties with the locals. They rotted and commited, but ... the troubles caused by them were great. They always put together a group — this is not taken into account by any laws and military commissars. This is a national peculiarity of the national minorities. As a matter of fact, the warehouse grows in place of the storekeeper, the key posts are food and equipment and here is the power for you. Nador gave me a special ditr of the pier for 25 rubles. A special Caucasian cuts in half the sleeve of his back, writes off the half as whole, gives it away. Offered a ram carcass! There was no lamb for sale, brought to warehouses, possibly admiral. Well, in all the warm places Caucasians sat. What was going on in the mouths of the construction battalion was the most intelligent person to tell me, he served there and got a job for us. He lived in a hostel, got excited, I gasped in it from tattoos all over my body to gandelupin rings in the members of the ring — a complete set of zone lotions. He asked, all the show-offs, you won’t go, you’ll reject yours as a coward. I can’t describe the process, but I told you in detail. Before the army I was engaged in holograms in the research institute, according to the Denisyuk method, I presented one-lion face for memory. He lives in Moscow
          2. Gregory Gore
            Gregory Gore 11 November 2019 19: 26 New
            -1
            My son would have served in training in Grozny, would have known hazing, for 15 years of service he had observed in all its manifestations, in various branches of the armed forces (until 1985).
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Masha
        Masha 7 November 2019 21: 14 New
        +7
        So, you, a mighty bunch !!!! belay
        1. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 8 November 2019 00: 53 New
          0
          Thank you, reminded of a mighty bunch ... and this is Mussorgsky including ... Balakirev ... Thank you so much, and I have already begun to forget. But in principle, I do not agree with you.
      2. Mouse
        Mouse 7 November 2019 21: 31 New
        +6
        Run around the branches +/- arrange, their pride satisfy, which in real life did not work, so at least hang in cardboard tyrnets stars, and even that is not fair

        So, you put everything on the shelves ... tell me honestly, have you copied from yourself? Well, one to one! yes
    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 November 2019 13: 57 New
      15
      Quote: lexus
      And at VO, isn't it? Here a pack of "grandfathers" in a crowd pounces on one if something does not suit them. They seem to be adults, but they behave like punks from a special detention center.

      You can bring a lot of allegories! In fact, in any social environment there will be a conflict. Let's conditionally call it “fathers and children”. VO - in our case, not an exception, but just that “rule”, moreover, with the “administrative resource”!
      Now, from my own experience, I have been catching mice in the buried VO since 2014. My character is not sugar, I caught seven bananas a day and a couple dozen minuses at a time, but?
      My subjective opinion is that the “people” on the forum live, in principle, are normal, adequate, competent and erudite. With whom to enter the peak of the discussion is primarily interesting, exciting and informative. In most cases, on the story branch in addition to the author’s work, you get a great analysis from the members of the forum, which in terms of volume and content exceeds the article by an order of magnitude !!!
      Now, in the army, the Author of today's article reveals a serious sore on the body of the Russian Guard! To my deep regret, I must regretfully agree with him. There is a problem, and it is most clearly expressed in the former Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia. I will not go deep how I know it, I just know that! Who's guilty? Trite, how can I access the KHS without the knowledge of the company commander? Where did these bulletproof vests, OZK and gas masks come from in the location of the barracks? There are other questions ....
      Now I will ask a terribly unpleasant to everyone and the whole question, why do we need the Rosguard? To perform police functions? Isn’t it easier to strengthen the police? In this case, an employee sharpened by this competence will defend the public order; he alone will replace 10 conscripts or 2 contractors. But most importantly, he will be included in the socio-economic environment, he will have a family and children, which in the first place will make him think twice to use special means or physical force. By the way, the Russian Guard has so far not abandoned the attributes of the police. He rides cars with the inscription police, steps up to protect public order in the form of police, etc. Thus, they discredit the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia.
      And finally, at KMB we beat our commander, who refused to dig potatoes on an equal footing with us! Fathers commanders saw this and knew, but let it go on the brakes! After 25 years, I understand them one hundred percent! If you are the boss, then your repaired is your rear! The simple rule is that you cannot even do all the clever work, you won’t get results from under the stick, where you don’t kiss the subordinate - everywhere you’re a “priest”, but with a competent carrot and stick, especially if every sergeant is aware that he is doing the right thing and the common thing, if he doesn’t “score” glasses, then this will be your “sergeant” and this will be your team !!! It may be pathetic, but in a different way it is impossible!
      Yesterday I was in charge, again looked at the unfortunate Rosgvardeytsev, once again there was a desire to move their lieutenant in the ear! Desire crushed, for me my people and they can’t fail! By the way, the jerk of the lieutenant has the same salary as mine!
      Regards, Your Kote!
      1. AK1972
        AK1972 8 November 2019 14: 12 New
        +3
        Bravo, Vladislav !!!
      2. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 12 November 2019 01: 14 New
        +1
        Vlad, I agree with everything, akromya functions of the police and the Russian Guard. Have you been talking to the police for a long time? Tame will not be up to the functions of the Russian Guard (BB), the police will be the police, there will be no time for their turnover. I still remember the MIS - VV in police uniform. VV performed the functions of the police - the protection of public order, and not vice versa. Further, according to the old, the operational regiments and brigades of the Russian Guard (BB) are armed with heavy armored vehicles, aviation, and artillery. How will the police in this case?
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 November 2019 05: 19 New
          +3
          Question?
          Let's think, and against whom do we need heavy armored vehicles, artillery, aviation of the Russian Guard?
          A classic example is the Chechen wars! For such a reticence, it may and should have an analogue of the internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, but there are many but!
          Chechnya and similar interethnic conflicts are problems and burps of political mistakes and it is possible to solve them only by political and socio-economic measures! Guns and tanks in such situations during the span, and given that the main component of the National Guard is a recruit or contractor with a service life of less than three years, this leads to general incompetence and lack of motive. The presence of riot police does not solve this problem - it is banal and expensive and few! Departmental security is now excluded from the system of public order protection, and therefore loses the experience that has been gained.
          So today, in any conflict, the state has fewer resources than in the late USSR, and then fire departments could be attracted.
          So the inclusion in the solution of the problem at the level of one subject of the Russian Federation of the army is not inevitable. We return to our question why the tanks of the Russian Guard?
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 12 November 2019 11: 57 New
            -2
            Well, why do armored vehicles, artillery and aviation of the explosives and their counterparts - the sad past combat experience. Lack of interaction with units of the Ministry of Defense, death from "friendly" fire. The storms of Kara-Makhi and Chaban-Makhi, the storming of Komsomolskoye are an example of this. I would not like to "approbate" the Russian Guard today. Generals fight in past wars. So it is here.
            And for the police - in my memory - since 1992, how many cardinal changes have been in law enforcement agencies, not only in the police, FSNP and FSNK, are an example of this. Do not count. Like the new ministers of the Ministry of Internal Affairs or the leaders of the AP, etc., there are different reforms, especially of law enforcement agencies, not of the system, but of the authorities. Reforms of the prosecutor's office were? Yes miserable. Ships? Minuscule. In which countries there have been so many changes and reforms in such a short period of police-police? That's the problem. Again, IMHO.
  2. Revival
    Revival 7 November 2019 15: 48 New
    -17
    "Fell off the bench", so that the bolt from the broken ak entered your leg?
    What a fragile machine they began to give out to people, it just fell from the bench, and it all breaks ((
    1. neri73-r
      neri73-r 7 November 2019 16: 09 New
      14
      Thank you, a balanced and reasoned article. A personal, fresh experience is provided.
      Quote: Revival
      What a fragile machine they began to give out to people, it just fell from the bench, and it all breaks ((

      There it was about a collision (accident) of four cars, I recall that two cars collide at a speed of 20 km each = 40 km per hour, try to enter the wall at this speed. Of course, we don’t have the conditions for that accident, but since the machine broke down, we can assume that the accident was serious, there were no airbags and seat belts, the result was expected, it’s good that no one died.
      1. Revival
        Revival 7 November 2019 16: 52 New
        +1
        I understand this, and I meant that "the poor thing just fell off the bench" is inappropriate here
    2. Sergey Averchenkov
      Sergey Averchenkov 7 November 2019 16: 10 New
      -24
      Well now what to do ... I'm really sorry for your foot. Do you want to regret you somehow? You are a soldier, and soldiers must (remember - must) steadfastly endure all the hardships of service.
      1. Revival
        Revival 7 November 2019 16: 50 New
        31
        You regret my leg in vain.
        A soldier must endure the hardships of service, but if the hardships of service are the result of something stupid tyranny and the like, then this one must inevitably bear responsibility and then yes, everything is in place.
        1. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 7 November 2019 17: 26 New
          -11
          No, not in vain ... I'm absolutely serious. I'm really sorry. I know what it is - a fracture of the maxillofacial joint is the smallest that I had during the service.
          1. VeteranVSSSR
            VeteranVSSSR 7 November 2019 22: 42 New
            +1
            Oh, I feel sorry for you, after an injury, only sucking movements could execute ...
            Traumatic dislocation of the elbow joint, fracture of the clavicle, weakly ..., right, you need to land on your feet, your hands are extra ...
            1. Sergey Averchenkov
              Sergey Averchenkov 8 November 2019 00: 41 New
              -6
              Do not feel sorry for me. I myself can pity anyone. Do you want to?
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 7 November 2019 17: 05 New
        29
        Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
        soldiers must (remember - must) endure all the burdens of service.

        Hazing and nonsense officer indispensable components of the service? laughing
        For example, two adjacent BDKs are “Crimean Komsomolets” and “N. Filchenkov. " On the first - an excellent commander and a start-up and horror, not any girlhood. On the second, it’s also not bad, but the nightly “fights without rules”. So where does the “burden of service” have to do with it?
        1. brat07
          brat07 12 November 2019 03: 49 New
          0
          Quote: Silvestr
          Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
          soldiers must (remember - must) endure all the burdens of service.

          Hazing and nonsense officer indispensable components of the service? laughing
          For example, two adjacent BDKs are “Crimean Komsomolets” and “N. Filchenkov. " On the first - an excellent commander and a start-up and horror, not any girlhood. On the second, it’s also not bad, but the nightly “fights without rules”. So where does the “burden of service” have to do with it?

          Sorry, what year did you serve?
          For me, to be honest, "is this:
          On the first - an excellent commander and a start-up and horror, not any girlhood. On the second, it’s also not bad, but the nightly “fights without rules”. So where does the “burden
          - "das ist fantastishc".
          If it’s not a secret, then what years and where?
          I am DMB 81-83. Kazakhstan.
          And, we had a "cool hazing", that is. complete non-statutory.
          The "Germans" (we called the officers that way) looked at it "through their fingers." Everything suited them.
          They benefited from the so-called. "hazing".
          Yes, there were "statutory" parts, but only after the Great Emergencies. And only after the commissions arrived from Moscow.
          And there was a FULL "ustyak".
          ALL officers of the military unit were completely changed.
      3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 November 2019 14: 05 New
        +7
        Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
        Well now what to do ... I'm really sorry for your foot. Do you want to regret you somehow? You are a soldier, and soldiers must (remember - must) steadfastly endure all the hardships of service.


        Any soldier is someone's son! It’s not necessary to feel sorry for the soldier, but his mother and father, his girlfriend at last !!! Damn it, the soldier has a “commander,” who for the first is responsible to his relatives.
        From my experience, I lost my subordinates twice! Two watchful times, for which I still can’t forgive myself!
        Sorry for the emotions.
        1. mmaxx
          mmaxx 8 November 2019 15: 58 New
          +6
          A lot of people speak about a citizen about the valiant defenders of the Motherland, etc., etc. For 2 years, I have never heard that a soldier was told something high. On the contrary, - only the last bestiality. And the word warrior and hired woman sounded with undisguised contempt and mockery. However, we paid the same officer. Who served, remember and write what officers were called in Sodat? In different places and in different ways. We have shmatkov and fritsa.
          But in history there have been cases when they were treated in a good way. Suvorovs, Napoleons there ... One, by the way, could be prescribed for discipline and sticks, the other - to shoot. Do not fuss. I remember one word they said soldiers tore the enemies to shreds.
          But when I was here, I personally will not hide it, I would have slammed some without hesitation, if there had been a war. And I would know that they would not install me. Something tells me that I'm not alone. I read someone’s memories. There, soldiers on the way to Chechnya played a battalion commander in cards: who will bang him. He, however, washed off along the road.
          Such a dick.
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 8 November 2019 19: 32 New
            0
            Quote: mmaxx
            A lot of people speak about a citizen about the valiant defenders of the Motherland, etc., etc. For 2 years, I have never heard that a soldier was told something high. On the contrary, - only the last bestiality. And the word warrior and hired woman sounded with undisguised contempt and mockery. However, we paid the same officer. Who served, remember and write what officers were called in Sodat? In different places and in different ways. We have shmatkov and fritsa.
            But in history there have been cases when they were treated in a good way. Suvorovs, Napoleons there ... One, by the way, could be prescribed for discipline and sticks, the other - to shoot. Do not fuss. I remember one word they said soldiers tore the enemies to shreds.
            But when I was here, I personally will not hide it, I would have slammed some without hesitation, if there had been a war. And I would know that they would not install me. Something tells me that I'm not alone. I read someone’s memories. There, soldiers on the way to Chechnya played a battalion commander in cards: who will bang him. He, however, washed off along the road.
            Such a dick.

            So I was a political officer after college, "spread rot" to the personnel, as expected. They don't like zampolitov here). But already, as a commander, he received letters in the hospital from those fighters with whom he was a political officer. Probably, it's all about professional qualities. Father, also an officer, a veteran of the Great Patriotic War, taught - only you decide which of your people will die now, who later, and who will remain alive. This is an awesome responsibility, and fighters must understand this.
            1. mmaxx
              mmaxx 9 November 2019 06: 03 New
              +3
              Maybe that's why they said thanks for doing what we needed. I would also meet some with pleasure. And some even now nailed. Over 30 years have passed.
            2. mmaxx
              mmaxx 9 November 2019 07: 01 New
              +3
              I thought a little. And everything returned to the same.
              The question is who served where. When a part (in general, like ours) is doing something incomprehensible - maintaining their own pants - then the officers begin to play the role of concentration camp guards. In which they drove the soldiers it is generally not clear why. But they called it a service to the motherland. Officers degrade professionally. Soldiers try to confront them and look for adventures on their ass. This is where the negative qualities of both appear. Each at its own level.
              But at the moments when the battalion was beginning to engage in combat training, it was transformed before our eyes. Anxiety about and without, day, night. twice a night, organization and marches, etc. In general, it’s not good news. A different feeling appeared among the soldiers. But all this did not last long. Less than a month at the beginning of each school year. Well, and even when the brigade commander shone a replacement, he wanted to go away well. And all a couple of months also engaged in combat training. They even passed the test normally, for which the brigade commander then thanked everyone.
              But it all quickly ended and the same thing began. Meaningless existence and the struggle for life.
              There is no combat training - the army is decomposing before our eyes.
              1. Doliva63
                Doliva63 9 November 2019 18: 07 New
                +2
                Quote: mmaxx
                I thought a little. And everything returned to the same.
                The question is who served where. When a part (in general, like ours) is doing something incomprehensible - maintaining their own pants - then the officers begin to play the role of concentration camp guards. In which they drove the soldiers it is generally not clear why. But they called it a service to the motherland. Officers degrade professionally. Soldiers try to confront them and look for adventures on their ass. This is where the negative qualities of both appear. Each at its own level.
                But at the moments when the battalion was beginning to engage in combat training, it was transformed before our eyes. Anxiety about and without, day, night. twice a night, organization and marches, etc. In general, it’s not good news. A different feeling appeared among the soldiers. But all this did not last long. Less than a month at the beginning of each school year. Well, and even when the brigade commander shone a replacement, he wanted to go away well. And all a couple of months also engaged in combat training. They even passed the test normally, for which the brigade commander then thanked everyone.
                But it all quickly ended and the same thing began. Meaningless existence and the struggle for life.
                There is no combat training - the army is decomposing before our eyes.

                I’ll tell you in other words: the army exists only in 2 states - when it is at war or when it is preparing for war, in any other state it’s just rabble. So you are right in some ways.
                1. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 9 November 2019 20: 13 New
                  +2
                  So that's about the hardships. In combat training, you can not come up with hardships. One sheer burden and sheer deprivation. Take and overcome. Why endure hardships in everyday life? And in empty domination like baboons?
              2. Fisherman
                Fisherman 15 November 2019 14: 19 New
                0
                Quote: mmaxx
                There is no combat training - the army is decomposing before our eyes.

                fully support
      4. mmaxx
        mmaxx 8 November 2019 15: 44 New
        +7
        The hardships should be from the service, and not from whose sloppiness and unwillingness to fulfill their duties. There, drive out the people in the field and arrange TSP.
  3. Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 7 November 2019 16: 13 New
    16
    Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
    Author, why are you so ... hazing has always been

    Of course it was, but not always, in the post-war times, it was called mentoring. My Barja urgently served as a mechanical driver on 34-ke for 3 years and never said anything like that.
    According to senior comrades, bullying began from the moment when the army began to take the convicted.
    1. Sergey Averchenkov
      Sergey Averchenkov 7 November 2019 16: 26 New
      -2
      I can not object to you - my personal experience since the 84th year. I know everything about that time.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 7 November 2019 16: 32 New
        +5
        Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
        I can not object to you - my personal experience since the 84th year. I know everything about that time.

        I asked Bati and his peers a hundred times, no one had ever heard of hazing! There was fraternity, there were fights, but hazing, no.
        1. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 7 November 2019 16: 51 New
          0
          I do not know the age of your bati (with all due respect). But what happened to me ... how can I forget this? Maybe I was just unlucky and I ended up in the newly formed part? There are such thoughts.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 7 November 2019 17: 02 New
            0
            Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
            Sergey Averchenkov (Sergey Averchenkov)

            I called two years later, so they drove us like cats ...........! I described below on the branch. repeat
        2. Andrey VOV
          Andrey VOV 7 November 2019 16: 59 New
          +8
          My father also served in the 3s for 60 years ... yes, he didn’t talk about hazing, but then they used to call brakes ... then my father devoted all his life to the army, and he was a platoon and company man .. kept everyone in a fist , but I didn’t allow bullying .... I myself was called in 94 ... it’s only a year ... but I didn’t do it for other reasons ... they shot a little plywood, then it wasn’t up to her ... it all depends on the soldier and the officer. ..in my opinion
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 8 November 2019 18: 52 New
      +5
      My father was called up to artillery in the 1940 year, in principle, then there was no hazing. He did not know how to handle horses at all (called up by the Ferghana State Military Commissariat), the old-timers explained everything to him and showed him. His ski training, introduced in the winter of the 40 of the year, proved it — he fled to aviation at the earliest opportunity, reasonably deciding that there are no horses or skis in aviation.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 8 November 2019 19: 17 New
        +3
        Quote: Aviator_
        His ski training, introduced in the winter of 40, proved his worth. He fled to aviation at the earliest opportunity, reasonably deciding that there are no horses or skis in aviation.

        Huge respect to your Father, he made the right decision.
        Aviation was my dream, but it didn’t work out, my great-uncle said, if you don’t come out as a pilot, you’ll be a “bag”. Something like this.
        I hope your dad lived to victory?
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 8 November 2019 19: 57 New
          +4
          I buried him in 2004 at the age of 82. For the war 2 Red Stars. So he died with several unweighted fragments from the Swiss "Oerlikons", which the neutral Swiss supplied the Germans.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 8 November 2019 20: 13 New
            +2
            Aviator_ (Sergey) I get the impression that with the departure of our fathers, the roots are being torn out of us, and we will have nothing to settle on. Hello from the Ancient! hi
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 8 November 2019 20: 30 New
              +4
              There is, of course, some reason for pessimism. But only some. There is a stratification of society. Young people are now trying to comprehend the current state of affairs, I am helping as much as possible. I also teach - my former student (a good guy) went to work for the Sukhoi firm and died in Indonesia during the RRJ-100 crash when the plane crashed into a mountain. In our office, the average age of employees is about 45 years, which is not bad - they managed to attract young people. And more recently, the average age was for 60. So we are trying. It's nice to deal with a like-minded person. From me, respectively. hi
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 8 November 2019 20: 40 New
                +2
                Aviator_ (Sergey)
                Dear Sergey! hi If you remember this, the SSI wrote, "shouted", here at VO 5-6 years ago.
                And how many of their real people, before self-forgetfulness, the bureaucratic bureaucrats of aviation left this site. Remember the conversation that if we collect all the pilots on the site and with the designers organize an air regiment and a design bureau, we would create a line of aircraft. hi
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 8 November 2019 21: 03 New
                  +4
                  Well, I've only been here for 3 years, so I didn't find many. On your own, on enthusiasm, you can only assemble a hang glider, as we did in our student years in the mid-70s. And they independently learned to fly on it. While learning, two hands were broken (for different enthusiasts). Here (on VO) it is important to propagate ideas, including aviation ones. I already wrote about the stratification of society, and so, the rich are usually stupid. Judging by the students, smart people always study on a budget, and on paid education - gouges who believe that since their parents paid for them, then you can continue a happy childhood. And they don't care about any ideas other than personal well-being. So we hope that "the idea will take possession of the masses." hi
    3. nznz
      nznz 12 November 2019 09: 45 New
      0
      that's for sure. The convicts introduced the zoning concept faster than the political craps of their crap.
  4. New Year day
    New Year day 7 November 2019 16: 21 New
    26
    Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
    Guys transferred to Russia?

    Not yet. One will remain silent, the second “by consent” will go into demobilization, and the third will take the machine gun and put the offenders, and along the way they find themselves at the wrong time in the wrong place. In the distant Soviet Union, too, there were such problems: one sailor hanged himself on the gun barrel, and the second overboard and swam.
    I read the author and thought, executions, as in Transbaikalia, will continue.
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 7 November 2019 16: 49 New
      +6
      Quote: Silvestr
      In the distant Union, there were also such problems

      In our unit, hazing was tough, perfumes were worn around the clock.
      There was such a case in a mortar company, there were average Asians there were 80%, the rest of the spirits put one on guard on fuels and lubricants, Duc his own scoops began to get him there, dushara put half a horn under their feet! well, so as not to be bullied. Damn, state of emergency, naughty to heaven, political officers, political instructors, battalion commanders, company commanders, inspectors. In short, after a week of regulations, drill and other "amenities", grandfathers from all companies went to the mortarmen laughing After this event, we began a well-fed and "resort" life good The spirit of that somewhere failed for two weeks, I don’t remember, either on the lip, or somewhere else, and then returned to the unit, he did not surrender anyone, such as inept handling of weapons, turned out to be quite a decent guy and a fighter.
    2. Sergey Averchenkov
      Sergey Averchenkov 7 November 2019 17: 02 New
      -8
      I'm glad not. So the men remained in our country. You know, I’m probably going to start talking quite unpleasantly now ... For example, for me, squealing is something impossible and unworthy. It doesn’t matter who you knock on - one way or another you knock. People have changed, become tolerant, but their core has disappeared. Yes, it is the rod that keeps the back straight and does not allow to bow. Well, they raised me like that, I can not do anything about it.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 7 November 2019 20: 33 New
        25
        For example, for me, squealing is something impossible and unworthy. It doesn’t matter who you knock on - one way or another you knock.


        This is the main reason for the existence of bullying in our army. No "grandfather" of the Bundeswehr would think to dip a young man into the toilet, he knows very well that he will immediately report to the military police, there will be a showdown before the parliamentary defense commission, and the dude will receive a not weak term 100%.

        The thought of unworthiness of "snitching" along with ritual humiliation and jargon was brought into the army by criminals, who, by the decision of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU, began to be drafted into the army in the SA in the 60s, which had previously been completely ruled out.
        Life "by concepts" is very convenient for thieves: we are thieves (grandfathers), so we are not supposed to work, and you are men (spirits), you have to work, count the days until the end of the term (demobilization) and not rock the boat. Sometimes we will "educate" you, and especially greyhounds "put down", but you are still silent, "knocking" is not a man's thing (but silently substituting a backside, like a man's).
        The topic is how much is embedded in the consciousness, starting from school, that as we see, people prefer to kill everyone, but they won’t go to the prosecutor’s office.
        1. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 8 November 2019 00: 37 New
          -6
          Yes, I know such opinions. But I can’t redo it. It seems that the army went through with dignity, and I remember it now with some longing. Even the foreman with whom I did not work out (they fought several times, and this is the ensign ... and I am an ordinary soldier) does not cause me to be rejected.
          1. AK1972
            AK1972 8 November 2019 12: 16 New
            +2
            Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
            It seems that the army went through with dignity, and I remember it now with some longing.

            So I remember my 2 years of service with warmth. Of course there was a lot of unpleasant, but these memories faded, and many were forgotten altogether, and there were cheerful and bright moments. I will never forget my army youth, like my fellow soldiers, with whom I communicate, and sometimes meet (this is a holiday), although this year I’m 20 years old. Thanks to the quiet minusers. Now you can easily calculate how many people on the site who were not serving, ordinary untrained with generals and marshals epaulets on nicknames. Minus one more, your minuses for statistics are very important to me.
        2. nznz
          nznz 12 November 2019 09: 51 New
          0
          Tell me, did you serve at the political councils or did you just think so abstractly?
          I had examples when I went to my father, the commander, the political officer, and this caused an offender with a cudgel and scribbled, I know a lot.
          Then the offended became an outcast of the unit.

          It was even worse — after his grandfather found out that he had been young, he grabbed some alcohol and put the informer in the dryer. In the morning he was sitting at a separate table, no one was sitting nearby. I know this for sure. The guy from Kolomny. Slim and very clogged. Aozil our shift on Novaya Zemlya. Then he was transferred, and another driver told me. He was always late, he couldn’t refuse the foreman if he intercepted him somehow .. how they take them to the army. He thought, complained and did not merge ..
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 12 November 2019 12: 03 New
            +1
            Tell me, did you serve at the political councils, or did you just think so abstractly? I have examples when I went to my father, the commander, the political ....


            Yes, urgent even with the political parties 87-89. The officer is already at a swing on educational.

            The question of "snitching" is very complex and has many shades.
            One constantly keeps up to date with the foreman or platoon (company) commander receives less work orders, dismissal, etc. on small things.
            The second one communicates with the company political officer (part), here the information is deeper, he receives a letter of thanks to his homeland, Komsomol letters, on demobilization - recommendations for joining the CPSU.
            The most advanced ones do not waste time on trifles, they go directly to the special officer. Everything is serious there - type in the internet "work with agents in the KGB", read the governing documents of those years.
            These guys work by vocation, in their field of vision is everything, including officers. After the service, an agent’s business travels with them to a civilian, where work continues. The reward is material, protection from the Ministry of Internal Affairs, bandits and other assaults and, most importantly, career growth. The higher the source sits, the more it knows and can, so that the authorities pull their informants up by the ears, regardless of their professional qualities. This is one of the reasons for the large number of fools upstairs.

            From a moral point of view, you need to understand a few simple things.
            The army is part of society and there are similar laws of life.
            If someone runs to the boss for the sake of small nishtyakov, then this is a rat. No difference in the company or in the office.
            But if someone sees that the soldiers quietly take the trunks out of their arms and throw them over the fence, or bearded faces drag bags and boxes to the Theater Center on Dubrovka at night, then you need to call.
            If heels of drug addicts regularly pinch you in the doorway, take money, a cell phone and say that real boys should be silent, then keep quiet. Or take the barrel, shoot a couple and sit down for ten years. But it’s easier to pass them, the air will be cleaner.
            The same is in the barracks. If you work, and grandfather is resting, then everything is fine old grandfather, he is tired. But if you are dipped in the toilet with your head, then this is not human and that means all means are good. There is no strength to defend yourself, merge them calmly to the prosecutor, these are not your friends, but simply temporary companions in your life, you will forget them in a year.

            Once again - the concepts were invented by thieves for men. At the same time, the thieves themselves quietly merge their own, if necessary. This is just one form of struggle.
            1. nznz
              nznz 12 November 2019 22: 08 New
              0
              like you all mixed and spread over different processes.
              One thing-bullying killed equal by law, and in fact, all soldiers.
              Another thing robbers and terrorists
              unites only one thing - this is a crime against the whole society, from children to the disabled and pregnant ..
              I didn’t write about squealing — you apparently ran between the lines — but that the report that had suffered under the current commanders turned into a disaster for the person who reported it.
              Usually, the commander (I repeat since it didn’t go all over again) calls the criminal and tells him who complained to him and chastises. Neither the investigation, nor the protocol, nor the progress of the case, nothing. Therefore, it is natural that the pumped-up criminal goes to the complainant and often teaches him to keep his tongue with friends for knocked out teeth. Or even worse, it degrades because in prisons it’s not always, but only out of lawlessness. If in the area for lawlessness a godfather can ask from a thief, then no one in the army asks anyone. Hush up suffer.
              The fear of superiors before punishment from a superior will never allow them to overcome inconsistency.
              If it were my will, I would clearly clarify that the commander is not punished for reporting a crime (non-statutory, etc.), but only when providing a detailed report, who was investigated for what, by whom, and what was done as a result, who was sent to the disbat.
              And then clouds will probably suddenly dance. A detailed report and investigation, if necessary with the prosecutor’s office, investigators, etc., will at the same time exclude slander and blackmail by the victim. Violence needs to be proved.
              Preventive measures would be divided into educational ones — disciplinary and humiliating for the offender — washing toilets, floors, and other household work — up to and including work on a pigsty for especially stupid infidels, there are a great many options, taking into account national characteristics. disbat from 1 month (easy immersion) for those who can still embark on the path of correction, before a decent period, for those who stubbornly. There are no indestructible. Especially when no one sees.
    3. ZAV69
      ZAV69 8 November 2019 09: 25 New
      +5
      Quote: Silvestr
      I read the author and thought, executions, as in Transbaikalia, will continue.

      Of course they will. Everything depends on the fathers of the commanders. 89-91 year, FORWARD, stand. As the company or political commissar is on duty, there is silence, like a platoon, so lawlessness. Grandfathers could send a platoon, and a company grandfather in a chancellery could kill off that much ..... Anyway, what do you want to do with him. And the political leader was respected.
      If there will be fathers-commanders with personnel engaged all the way day and night, there will be sense. And they will go to the office according to the scheme and the grass will not grow so there will be lawlessness. And where there is no strife there are shoots, fights, ponazhovism.
      1. Leaning
        Leaning 8 November 2019 22: 35 New
        0
        Do you want the officer to be a teacher? This young Leiteha, who has been cheating for 3 years at the school? We (86-88) in the Airborne Forces had 2 types of officers, MUZHIK and. And they didn’t put company chmyrs, respectively, of the chief of staff and former company commanders. But hazing has always been and will be.
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 10 November 2019 21: 03 New
          +3
          Quote: The Leash
          Do you want the officer to be a teacher? This young Leiteha, who has been cheating for 3 years at the school? We (86-88) in the Airborne Forces had 2 types of officers, MUZHIK and. And they didn’t put company chmyrs, respectively, of the chief of staff and former company commanders. But hazing has always been and will be.

          Soviet officers were, by definition, educators — did you see their training program?
          Studied at the school for 4 years (command and political) and 5 years (command-engineering and engineering), where did you see 3 years?
          Somehow inattentively you served in the army laughing
          1. servant.
            servant. 11 November 2019 05: 34 New
            0
            They were teachers and could not cope with hazing ...
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 11 November 2019 19: 38 New
              +1
              Quote: serviceman.
              They were teachers and could not cope with hazing ...

              Where they wanted, managed.
              1. servant.
                servant. 12 November 2019 07: 58 New
                0
                In the USSR then? So she went from there ...
          2. Leaning
            Leaning 20 November 2019 23: 35 New
            0
            I’ll say those more, I myself joined the army after the pedagogical institute)) and we all roughly know how we studied pedagogy in military schools ...
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 21 November 2019 18: 07 New
              0
              Quote: The Leash
              I’ll say those more, I myself joined the army after the pedagogical institute)) and we all roughly know how we studied pedagogy in military schools ...

              I even remember the name of the subject: WFP - military pedagogy and psychology. laughing Normally taught, by the way. Another thing is how someone studied. For example, it came in handy.
    4. Den717
      Den717 8 November 2019 09: 39 New
      +7
      Quote: Silvestr
      I read the author and thought, executions, as in Transbaikalia, will continue.

      Maybe yes. Will happen periodically. Which, in fact, is almost there. As in Soviet times, and today, the army remains a reflection of society. And if "snitching", in other words, a report on the problem "on command", is perceived in the society not quite positively, then it is foolish to think that it will be different in RA. If in all branches of production in the country there is underfunding to ensure the assigned tasks while maintaining a strong demand for its implementation, then the army method "steal but do" will live forever. For there are no preconditions for a positive movement. And as for the legal leverage on the "deposition" nat. I have already written from the side of the junior officer corps - the State should stand like a mountain behind the lieutenant's back, and the very reaction to the imposition of legal discipline should not be a brake on the platoon commander in his career. Any soldier who has tried to put himself in a privileged position must clearly know his future path - the outfit - the guardhouse - discipline. battalion - ITK. Regardless of nationality, faith, party affiliation. There is no other way.
  5. Alekseev
    Alekseev 7 November 2019 16: 22 New
    24
    Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
    Author, why are you so ...

    The question is not simple. Soldiers' self-government was at all times. read "Quiet Don" and many other testimonies which are 100 years old or more.
    But ... the main thing is to keep it within limits, not to let the "chaos" grow.
    I will touch upon only one, but very important component in maintaining military discipline.
    This is a system for evaluating the work of commanders. Here, apparently, it was not possible to get away from the principle - if there are no violations, then you're done.
    The principle should be different if you uncovered a violation of discipline and took the right measures, up to and including "arrest and prosecution", only then you well done.
    The army is a harsh place, but there should not be bullying and beating for not changing socks for footcloths.
    If a "horseman" does not want to serve in a dress and tries to replace himself with someone weaker - this is not a joke at all, but a crime against military service.
    If a health worker hides the beatings, this is also a crime. And if different "landowners" came to investigate, they were hanged for such things according to the Charter of Peter the Great. let them not hang them now, but in the "prison companies", but letting them go is criminal!
    Some officers will not impose order in the army, a sergeant corps is needed, and in the first place, they should recruit and spend financial resources not clerks, etc., but separated commanders.
    It would be nice to introduce fines for disciplinary sanctions, especially those related to non-insurgency, this is in the spirit of the times. wink
    In general, political will is needed, but something is missing.
    Before the war, the army was decomposed due to repression extremely. nobody wanted to put things in order in principle so as not to get denunciations of themselves in the organs.
    In 1939, the defense narcotist had to issue an order to bring violators of military discipline to justice under wartime laws.
    Now such measures are probably unnecessary, but order needs to be put in place: you can’t shorten the service life to a week and boast then that, they say, there is no bullying, hurray!
    1. Sergey Averchenkov
      Sergey Averchenkov 7 November 2019 17: 10 New
      -3
      I read "Quiet Don".
  6. Civil
    Civil 8 November 2019 12: 53 New
    0
    It's time to put together an exhaustive list of "hardships and hardships", for example:
    The list of hardships and hardships of a soldier includes:
    1. All outfits of a senior servant and respected soldiers from the North Caucasus.
    2. Drying the body on the uneven bars of the bed daily, and in case of bad mood of employees from paragraph 1 - hourly.
    3. Treatment at his own expense of damaged internal organs from colleagues.
    4. .....
  • Lexus
    Lexus 7 November 2019 15: 21 New
    20
    approximately 20-25 percent of the personnel are representatives of the North Caucasus region ... These guys are not put on the outfit. That is, in general. Many officers and warrant officers simply do not want to contact them.

    Congratulations ... have arrived!
    Either the "white bones" have weakened, or they have been successfully worn down by the Laws and Military Regulations.
    1. ul_vitalii
      ul_vitalii 7 November 2019 18: 20 New
      -16
      Quote: lexus
      Laws and Military Regulations successfully tested.

      Watch the tongue, you do not live in America "patriot".
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 7 November 2019 18: 33 New
        +9
        In this tone, I allow my protégés to communicate.
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 7 November 2019 15: 32 New
    12
    Well, here's a "look from the other side", as opposed to Skomorokhov. Let's see if this Battle will continue ...
    1. 210ox
      210ox 7 November 2019 16: 07 New
      +3
      The author we found somewhere building ... what
      1. Agieros
        7 November 2019 21: 29 New
        +9
        Probably I incorrectly put it. Relatively close to us was part of the provision of the Railway Troops, which we ourselves called the construction battalion. The guys went there, fixed the railway track, fired twice a year - once 6 shots, once 35. 26 standard 5,45, 9 tracer, just so that does not fit in one store. Somehow in my head it was postponed - building battles. Perhaps this should be called parts of the rear support?
        1. VeteranVSSSR
          VeteranVSSSR 7 November 2019 23: 04 New
          0
          ... once 6 shots ....?
          Each exercise / shooting has its own name.
          -Exercise number 1: 3 cartridges target 100 meters; 6 cartridges falling target (forgot whether 150, 200 meters roofing felts)
          I remember exactly that the target ,, machine gun (double) 250 m.
          1. Agieros
            8 November 2019 08: 40 New
            +3
            Exercise number 1, 100 meters, the target is a regular circle like what is in the dash, with zones marked by points. Three shots, but give six. Initially, it is assumed that the soldiers do not know how to shoot, do the first three, after which the officer goes and tells each soldier where his bullets went from the center and how to adjust the scope, and after three already to offset, so to speak. Exercise on 35 shots I don’t remember the name, it is not numbered, one chest target is 150 meters, it is allowed to hit single, lying position, the second machine gun calculation is 250 meters, from this target everything is allowed to hit only in bursts, then the soldier gets up and runs along the path on command deep into the field, if grenades were given up to this point, at a certain point it stops and throws a grenade at a group target of 20 meters, if you did not give it out, then you should hit the rising growth target 50 meters on the go. Machine gunners and a sniper hit the target not on the move, but from the knee. And at the end of the movement, the platform, two moving growth targets 400 meters are struck from it, any position for firing (lying, from the knee, standing) is allowed.
          2. bubalik
            bubalik 8 November 2019 10: 33 New
            +5
            ,,, we had more interesting. I don’t remember what the exercise is called exactly. You advance to the firing line by running 1 km, in armor, in a gas mask. The first shooter (or machine gun calculation what ) in the window opening, like 100m, 6 cartridges. Crossing 50m, shooting at the moving moving figure 400m, 6 cartridges. You shoot in a gas mask too.

            ,,, but if you don’t hit, then destroy the enemy in hand-to-hand combat wassat crawling to a growth figure and with a cry of Ur you are dropping the enemy laughing

            In firing training such were 2 once a week + nightly.
        2. ZAV69
          ZAV69 8 November 2019 09: 31 New
          +3
          Quote: Agieros
          Probably I incorrectly put it.

          All correctly put it. I served in such a company, the company worked at a military factory which produced small things for KECh, sheds, plugs, carpentry is different. It was at the end of 80 and beginning of 90. Judging by the Internet, she still exists and is doing the same. Yes, I saw the machine only on the oath and shooting in front of her in training. And I never saw him in a company.
          1. Fan-fan
            Fan-fan 8 November 2019 17: 18 New
            0
            And once they gave me an assault rifle to shoot at a target, and once they fired from a pistol and once they tried to put the pontoon bridge over the aryk and that's all. He served in Central Asia, in the engineering troops under the USSR, so I will tell you, there was such a nonsense: the officers were half drunk, the other half were indifferent to everything, for the whole part one officer was a normal person. I didn’t learn anything there, even in ranks and asterisks I still don’t understand, like this, and served 2 years, since they did everything (they built, cleaned, repaired, even gardened at the general), not even military affairs, even training passed by.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 9 November 2019 13: 38 New
              0
              Quote: Fan-Fan
              I didn’t learn anything there, even I still do not understand the ranks and asterisks on uniform

              But at VO you are already a whole "captain", and you are trying to teach others how to live ...

              Is everything right here? what wink

              Dear friend, you climbed where from a machine gun (and not only), at least - they know how to shoot. I am already silent about the "stars" laughing
              1. Rusland
                Rusland 9 November 2019 13: 48 New
                +2
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                Quote: Fan-Fan
                I didn’t learn anything there, even I still do not understand the ranks and asterisks on uniform

                But at VO you are already a whole "captain", and you are trying to teach others how to live ...

                Is everything right here? what wink

                Dear friend, you climbed where from a machine gun (and not only), at least - they know how to shoot. I am already silent about the "stars" laughing

                My friend, there was a cartoon in our times with the song "Film, Film, Film", cinema and contributed to the formation of those who were not involved. smile
                "Girl, you haven't learned your part again, but it's so simple:" Ku-ku ".
    2. Rusland
      Rusland 7 November 2019 18: 15 New
      +5
      Who did you put in the end?
  • Li17
    Li17 7 November 2019 15: 32 New
    24
    It is logical. You can read the story "One Hundred Days Before the Order" by Y. Polyakov. And a lot of things. Serving as a commander, I came to the conclusion that this is our nature. Moreover, the animal itself in the senior period is usually the very beginning of the service. How did I fight? In the first place, they were afraid of me, and more got to those who allowed this in relation to themselves. There were also enough Asians and Caucasians, they broke according to the method of General Ermolov - strength and cruelty are the norm for them. Justice and honesty, got caught, answer! EVERYTHING was establishing internal order, you live here! Well, he drove in all martial disciplines, he was always at the head! I planted a couple of special ones, although this is still the same problem. At that glorious time, when November 7 was the holiday of the Great October Revolution (congratulations, colleagues!), The commander had more methods and rights. Now I don’t even know, it looks like a kindergarten, and already if in a year a complete ATAS ..... We degrade along the male line!
    1. Sergey Averchenkov
      Sergey Averchenkov 7 November 2019 16: 02 New
      -12
      I guess I agree with you - in the SA there were no special nationalities - all plowed. There was a categorical division by service life, but by nationality ... maybe something very small and in the bud.
      1. Xnumx vis
        Xnumx vis 7 November 2019 17: 58 New
        15
        Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
        I guess I agree with you - in the SA there were no special nationalities - all plowed. There was a categorical division by service life, but by nationality ... maybe something very small and in the bud.

        I do not agree with you. Before the army was an internationalist to the marrow of bones ...! Respected and loved all people, all races and nationalities! I realized in the army that I was wrong .. I’m sure that no need to call Comrade in the army from the north Caucasus .. They just do not need in the army. Headache for officers and personnel .. Source of conflict.
        1. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 7 November 2019 19: 15 New
          -5
          Maybe this is a headache for you personally? I don’t protect them; I still have graters with them. But it seems that in our country where hazing was put at the forefront, they were normal. Not that I was in love with them, but they serve and they serve.
    2. Prisoner
      Prisoner 7 November 2019 18: 50 New
      13
      We have normal nature. We need to work with personnel. Not to take to the throat or something else. Although reasonable doses are required. The main thing is not to settle oneself, puzzling the younger commanders. I remember in those times the fate bestowed me with seven miraculous heroes from the Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic. Was in those ancient times such. To say that the platoon was in full contact means to embellish the situation and not slightly. In general, the Dzhigits went into complete denial. Outfit for the company, oh my God, mopping, cleaning up a washroom, mopping a latrine is not a man's job, Eh! Lieutenant a little more than six months from the school. The guy is a strong, athletic, excellent melee holding on, but it seems to explode soon. Need to do something. They lined up the proud sons of the mountains and I gave them a speech describing their immediate prospects. The lips reacted with a grin to the promise, the promise of the disbath illuminated their faces with a malicious smile. Not penetrated. And then like a flash ... and away we go. Ok guys, listen here. Tomorrow I will sit down for a thank-you letter to your parents describing your exploits in the field of maintaining cleanliness and order, I will especially click on how you conscientiously. honestly, wash the floors in the arrangement, wash the sinks and clean the tiles in the toilet. I’ll send a copy to the chairman of the local council. And it penetrated! Almost with tears in their eyes they asked not to send letters of thanks, explaining that they would not suffer such a shame. What am I? I have less scribbling, but an agreement to drag out the service and add money as expected. lol Drew in, served fine. Only on a demobilization six left. Seventh in OrdzhVOKU entered.
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 9 November 2019 14: 00 New
        +4
        Quote: Captive
        Outfit for the company, oh my God, mopping, cleaning up a washroom, mopping a latrine is not a man's job, Eh!

        Service in the army, according to "their religion", is a "military campaign". In a military campaign there is no "non-male work" request No.

        The mullah was nearby, they explained to him what and how ... he wrote for these feeds to the children with beads in their faces. Dropped at a time.

        Materiel, materiel ... many-sided laughing
        1. Prisoner
          Prisoner 9 November 2019 19: 30 New
          +1
          We didn't bother too much about religion. That was the time. There was such garbage as the national mentality, and then the special officers. It dawned on us how ... in general, the guys worked in the right direction. Seriously for religion, they began to build us in the south. What is haram (not allowed), what is ginah (sin), the "rank-and-file parties" were already explaining outside the Union. And with our Muslim brothers in the Union, we quite famously dealt with the meat of the "polar bear", which relied on the DP for winter outings and did not disdain alcohol. Of course, "those who have it," as V.S. Vysotsky. winked
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 9 November 2019 21: 34 New
            +2
            Quote: Captive
            As for religion, we didn’t bother much

            Well, in my case it was easier. Non-invasive surgery laughing
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 7 November 2019 15: 37 New
    18
    There is such a problem or a fact how to look at it: approximately 20-25 percent of the personnel are representatives of the North Caucasus region. I'm talking about the parts adjacent to major cities (Moscow, St. Petersburg and so on). These guys are not in the outfit. That is, in general. Many officers and warrant officers simply do not want to contact them, because even if this soldier enters the outfit, most likely he will simply shift the duties to other orderlies. And no one will say anything. Tribesmen intercede for him, and no one will intercede for the Russian boys.

    Everything would be fine, but I received exactly the same information from a person who served in Transbaikalia, where the natives of Dagestan were vividly represented - "Dagi", as they were called. Some kind of nonsense to look for in a mold of society - the sun, other relationships. Look at the people around you, at those who throw the leftovers of food from a cool foreign car onto the road, who do not like to get stuck in traffic jams, and consider pedestrians as garbage on the doorstep. Listen to the officials, listen to those to whom fate has allocated a higher "six" ... Very sad information ...
    I already thought that this situation does not happen everywhere. The military fraternity should be above criminal concepts, but remembered how
    In Syria, a Russian soldier - sergeant Ruslan Ilyasov killed his subordinate - sailor Almaz Abutaliev.
  • Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 7 November 2019 15: 40 New
    +2
    A big mind is not necessary ... The first physical examination will reveal it with guarantee
  • AK1972
    AK1972 7 November 2019 15: 45 New
    -8
    in the fields they dug a toilet and washed it, and so on until the end of the service

    This is generally a masterpiece! Could the author explain to me the technology of washing a field toilet? What to wash something? Cesspool? is it easy to dump shit with a shovel in a point? During my service, these field constructions were simply densely covered with bleach, so that any inspector could not come closer than 10m without damaging the olfactory receptors.
    1. Agieros
      7 November 2019 15: 53 New
      15
      Blame, not fully described the technology. The toilet was not just a hole in the ground, there was some improvement, something like a large wooden booth around this hole, with wooden floors, this structure was dismantled when the unit left the exercises and was buried. Accordingly, upon arrival, it was necessary to dig a hole back and collect this wooden house back. And since bleach was not always, and soap and a car with water in the fields were more frequent, make yourself a mop and go mine. You will find bleach, work bleach. But bleach was given out by doctors to be painted, if it was, that is, never.
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 7 November 2019 16: 01 New
        +6
        Thanks to the author for the article and the discussion.
        What about guardhouses now?
        1. Agieros
          7 November 2019 16: 13 New
          14
          I don’t know how in other parts, our guardhouse was synonymous with a week's vacation. The first time they were sent to the guardhouse, usually the soldiers were given seven days (seven days are still in service, so they started from this period) and they left after an exemplary divorce. There are no duties there, the daily routine is simpler than in the part, the food is better. Such an army option "for a week to Turkey". There were, of course, champions who had 45 days in total on their lips, but they also did not grieve.
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 7 November 2019 16: 20 New
            0
            you just had to carry yours to the lip of the MO and from there to you. immediately the desire to consider this a vacation will disappear as well as the desire to get there at least once.
          2. Engineer
            Engineer 7 November 2019 16: 22 New
            +9
            It's just tin
            In our garrison on the lip was feeding cold slurry, lack of smoking. Fizeau in the form of a pile of firewood and a two-handed saw. And the cherry on the cake is loading coal. After 4 days, people howled.
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 7 November 2019 16: 29 New
              +2
              and the desire to squint disappeared like smoke.
              1. Nestorych
                Nestorych 8 November 2019 10: 54 New
                -1
                It didn’t disappear, it was even considered a special difference among the soldiers to sit on the lip.)
          3. AK1972
            AK1972 8 November 2019 12: 26 New
            +1
            I do not know about you, but our lip was self-heating. so that the skiers (deserters) and other kosyamniks had to take a little coal in the winter with chopped crowbars and deliver to the stoker in cold weather at -40, so this work was not very fun. In addition, no one canceled the 100% charter, outfits and combat training. Not only the gateway was hemmed, but also the cuffs of the sleeves and the belt of the tunic, and God forbid that the hem was not snow-white. Those who were there were ready for any hazing, if only they were not tired. Here is such a Turkey.
            1. VeteranVSSSR
              VeteranVSSSR 8 November 2019 19: 49 New
              0
              And where is so much sheet on the lip that would hem everything?
              Our coat was a mattress and a sheet and a blanket. On the lip, as on the lip ...
          4. VeteranVSSSR
            VeteranVSSSR 10 November 2019 23: 57 New
            0
            Oh, author, you did not serve, oh did not serve ...
            The length of stay on the lip is measured by the DAY ...
  • Mcar
    Mcar 7 November 2019 15: 48 New
    13
    Hazing in the army IS. It is NOT uprooted and will never be. In one form or another, it is present in all the armies of all countries. And it will continue to be.

    I would add: hazing is not only in the army, it is present in one form or another in any organized or unorganized community of three or more people.

    Anyone who at least once poured into an established team can recall a lot of what can be mistaken for hazing. To clean the snow? Like who? Brand new! Unload coal? Well, what kind of question? He is! etc. Those. the most black or less paid job is the salage.

    It seems to me that hazing begins when humiliating human dignity. And everything that goes to this brink fits perfectly into normal relations - a master and an apprentice.
  • Revival
    Revival 7 November 2019 15: 50 New
    13
    "These guys are not put in the outfit. That is, at all. Many officers and warrant officers simply do not want to get involved with them, because even if this soldier joins the outfit, most likely he will simply shift responsibilities to other orderlies. And no one will say anything. ".
    This survived, such a disgrace, and even not as an exception!
  • And
    And 7 November 2019 15: 56 New
    -8
    "A fifth of the personnel are Caucasians, a fifth are half-criminals, two-fifths come from the villages out of stupidity, and a fifth are caught or surrendered deviators" - and the author considers himself interesting to whom.
    Regarding the article, this is an army, not a holiday home. Of course, there should not be any humiliation and bullying. Hazing in one form or another has always been and will be. Do I need to shout about the horrors of hazing if the overwhelmed and relaxed lent, who refuses to obey the order, will be given an accelerating pendal or pumped in a dryer? Smartphones were taken away - what a horror, they don’t allow to communicate with relatives, sit in chat rooms and upload photos.
    I emphasize once again that there should not be any bullying and humiliation, but if a person deserves punishment and does not reach him within the framework of the charter, then he should receive it, if it weren’t.
    The question is, what is hazing or insurgency better? It remains open and everyone decides for himself.
    1. Agieros
      7 November 2019 16: 06 New
      +8
      Surrendered dodger.
      1. And
        And 7 November 2019 16: 13 New
        +3
        Honesty and directness are meritorious qualities.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 7 November 2019 17: 11 New
          +9
          Quote: And
          Honesty and directness ...


          ... Nowadays they are very expensive, as a rule, for the speaker
      2. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 7 November 2019 16: 18 New
        -16
        Quote: Agieros
        Surrendered Dodger

        In combination - a storyteller?

        There were a lot of questions for the author, but now, perhaps, no longer wink

        But the trolls of the local expanse - oh, jumped laughing
        1. tesser
          tesser 7 November 2019 16: 24 New
          10
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          In combination - a storyteller?

          Do you want to object essentially or simply to sketch?
          1. Revival
            Revival 7 November 2019 17: 46 New
            +6
            He, by definition, is simply a sketch. This work.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 7 November 2019 17: 55 New
              -6
              Quote: Revival
              This work

              Che, ringing in your ears again? Then Sylvester wanders nearby, says that the doctor laughing
              1. New Year day
                New Year day 7 November 2019 20: 36 New
                +5
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                here Sylvester wanders nearby, says that the doctor

                have any doubts? You can drive up, I’ll help you. At your choice: sigmoidoscopy, colonoscopy or colostomy, but immediately.
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 7 November 2019 20: 49 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Silvestr
                  At your choice: sigmoidoscopy, colonoscopy or colostomy, but immediately

                  Well ... three options, and all - in one place laughing

                  Thank you doctor ... don't need request

                  A comrade Revival complained at one time about ringing in the ears. Help a man yes
                  1. New Year day
                    New Year day 7 November 2019 20: 50 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    Thank you doctor ... don't need

                    believed, well, thank God. Health and not meeting doctors
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    Well ... three sentences, and all - in one place

                    so I'm not a dentist!
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 7 November 2019 20: 57 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Silvestr
                      I'm not a dentist

                      Yes, I understand laughing

                      Quote: Silvestr
                      Health and not meeting doctors

                      Thanks for your kind words yes
    2. qQQQ
      qQQQ 7 November 2019 16: 14 New
      +8
      Quote: And
      The question is, what is hazing or insurgency better? It remains open and everyone decides for himself.

      Thanks to the author, he served for 2 years, everything is approximately the same, only much tougher, and the statutory work is not terrible, if it concerns everyone, and when only the "chosen ones", then this is real hazing. And yet, as I already wrote, all non-statutory lawlessness dies when the unit is engaged in normal combat work, which is what the army is needed for. There are alternative workers for washing toilets, carrying outfits.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 7 November 2019 16: 22 New
        0
        oh how))) that is, someone should clean up after you iron you wash?))) what kind of kindergarten is this? part and adjacent is your home. in which you do everything yourself. and so much has been removed and everyone is complaining.
        1. qQQQ
          qQQQ 7 November 2019 16: 29 New
          +4
          The question is different, but what is the army for? How do you personally want to be protected by a soldier who learns to fight all his time or a soldier who serves his life most of his time and only occasionally, in his spare time, picks up a weapon? Why are there civil servants, janitors, etc. Do you want to clean the toilet at your work? Why should someone do this for you? For this reason, children of 18 years are taken into the army, which would make it easier to force non-core occupations.
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 7 November 2019 16: 40 New
            +3
            Yesterday already wrote but I will repeat. I started at age 14 with IEDs. then 5 years school. all by handles. you want 18 year old male people to serve someone. when the war begins, will you take these seamstress cleaners and other personnel with you? will they dig for you to clean up your waste? if in peacetime they can’t what will happen if there is a war? they either run or just die right away. the main mistake of such opinions and articles is a complete misunderstanding of what the army is. without romanticism and flera, this is a hard, dirty, everyday work. it is a separate world with its own laws and regulations.
            1. ℳy ℒiƒℯ
              ℳy ℒiƒℯ 7 November 2019 17: 07 New
              10
              when the war begins, will you take these seamstress cleaners and other personnel with you? will they dig for you to clean up your waste?

              Right. Therefore, instead of real training, let the soldiers go to work in a labor colony. And if suddenly a war, well, the old-fashioned machine gun in the teeth and forward, with a cry of "hurray" storm the height.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 7 November 2019 17: 23 New
                -4
                let's do it. here I had the tankers the basic skills and knowledge they needed. at the same time they serviced their cars and imagine both the streets of the shallows and the barracks were torn. and they took off the glass with take-off when the time came and rubbed it. They went into dresses and removed snow in the town. and many many many more. and imagine it turned out. different and the calls were people. and there were a lot of things. and even went to hell for potato pancakes. as well as polygons. and survived) you know nothing fell off. when you studied at the institute you went down for several pairs and then didn’t clean the house? did not cook? didn’t go to the cottage? it's about the same thing but unhappy boys can’t imagine ?!
                1. Revival
                  Revival 7 November 2019 19: 39 New
                  +7
                  As I understand it, training above the base level is harmful to the soldier and is it not necessary?
                  I naively thought that it was desirable for a soldier to know military affairs as best as possible, and that military service should be directed precisely at that.
                  Therefore, our losses during wars are "basic", and the enemy often has less, until our soldier, right in battle, finally learns above the basic
                  1. mmaxx
                    mmaxx 8 November 2019 17: 16 New
                    +1
                    It has long been clear that our military commanders need stupid slaves. Hence, all their messages about too complex a technique for an ordinary conscript. Either the tanks are complex, then God forbid a whole machine. Instead of teaching military affairs, it’s easier to get people to do all kinds of crap. Although, often, by intellect, the average conscript is superior to the officer.
                    Why doesn’t anyone ask the question: why is everything breaking down in the airborne forces, but only under duress into ordinary units? The answer is simple. Among other things - there is combat training. And in a serious form. And this is every normal guy wants to go through. And there people are killed in the exercises regularly. For some reason, after the inhuman Drochilov, people, not having handed over to the maroon beret, cry, but in other places they run, shoot, shoot. And the endless digging of ditches, grades, and humiliations is unclear from anyone who logically attracts no one.
                    Maybe the army should do just combat training ??? Teach a soldier something? For example, everyone has a right to drive a car. Shoot well. I remember from the old: every Wehrmacht soldier is a driver. There is 24 hours in a day. There are many interesting things in the army.
                    Combat training will make a man faster and better from a guy than breaking through a knee through zone orders.
                    And all because combat training is work for commanders. And they don’t need it. No one is even trying to fix something. One shtafirke, by the name of Shoigu, came up with the idea of ​​washing machines in the barracks and showers. Such a bold thought did not occur to any of the military.
                    Soldiers hate their technique. With very few exceptions. Because it is necessary to dryuch it, and why, no one understands, because they still do not use it.
                    And washing toilets for alternatives is a good idea. It serves everyone. Serving with weapons is an honor and money. Without weapons - toilets and garbage. It’s much easier than running around the house with some kind of machine gun.
              2. raw174
                raw174 7 November 2019 19: 02 New
                +2
                Quote: ℳy ℒiƒℯ
                Therefore, let them instead of real preparation, the soldiers will make aki in a labor colony.

                What do you mean by "real preparation"? And under "ishachit"? Wiping your ass - is it shattering or not? And how to wash the dishes behind you and the floor in your barracks (room)?
                1. Fan-fan
                  Fan-fan 8 November 2019 17: 38 New
                  -2
                  Maybe a warrior should cook himself with a shul at the stake? Does the bread itself bake? Itself repair a tank, a plane?
                  1. raw174
                    raw174 8 November 2019 21: 38 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Fan-Fan
                    Maybe a warrior should cook himself with a shul at the stake? Does the bread itself bake? Itself repair a tank, a plane?

                    Yes, in the field, in combat conditions, the soldier himself must do all this, since civilians have no place on the battlefield! Who is cooking in the field kitchen? Cook for hire? No, SOLDIER! And I’ll tell you a secret, the driver in the tank is the MECHANIC driver .... Do you know the task of the mechanic?
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 8 November 2019 22: 01 New
                      0
                      Quote: raw174
                      Do you know the task of the mechanic?

                      Where from?

                      Quote: Fan-Fan
                      He served in Central Asia, in the engineer troops under the USSR ... I have not learned anything there, even in ranks and asterisks on uniform I still do not understand ...

                      Are you still sure this can a person be convinced of something? wink
        2. Warrior2015
          Warrior2015 10 November 2019 20: 39 New
          +1
          Quote: carstorm 11
          that is, someone should clean up after you iron you wash?))) what kind of kindergarten is this? part and adjacent is your home.

          To do this, in normal armies there are support units, and units that take on all non-combat work from civilian civilians.
          1. servant.
            servant. 11 November 2019 05: 38 New
            0
            And so it was with us, but not for long .... After Serdyukov everything was turned off ... saving ...
      2. AK1972
        AK1972 8 November 2019 12: 34 New
        0
        Quote: qqqq
        For washing toilets, wearing outfits, there are alternative people..

        In the internal outfit, in patrol, guard, KTP, KPP, are you also willing to put alternatives? I do not envy these alternatives. 2 military police officers would have to be assigned to each to ensure the safety of their mental and physical health.
        1. qQQQ
          qQQQ 8 November 2019 15: 14 New
          0
          Quote: AK1972
          In the internal outfit, in patrol, guard, KTP, KPP

          Alternative specialists can completely clean themselves in all the internal premises, this will complicate the service with weapons (guard, etc.), but I think it’s possible to cope if the soldiers are really soldiers, and not dishwashers. By the way, repair services are allowed in the guard as well, when the forces of the squad fail to cope.
          1. AK1972
            AK1972 8 November 2019 16: 34 New
            +3
            Quote: qqqq
            By the way, repair services are allowed in the guard as well, when the forces of the squad fail to cope.

            Repair teams from separate units are allowed, a sapper company, a communications company, rem. company. What should civilians do on guard? Will alternative workers also go to the patrol to catch self-propelled gunners and monitor the appearance and correct delivery of the military salute by the servicemen on leave? Alternate on the bedside table: "Company duty alternate Pupkin!" not funny?
            1. qQQQ
              qQQQ 11 November 2019 10: 58 New
              0
              Quote: AK1972
              Alternate on the bedside table: "Company duty alternate Pupkin!" not funny?

              Do not distort, alternatives can only do cleaning.
  • Invoce
    Invoce 7 November 2019 16: 07 New
    -11
    20-25 percent of the personnel are representatives of the North Caucasus region. Many officers and warrant officers simply do not want to contact them, because even if this soldier enters the outfit, most likely he will simply shift the duties to other orderlies. And no one will say anything. Tribesmen intercede for him, and no one will intercede for Russian boys.

    That is, the fellow was "offended" by the close-knit rural children, and besides, of a different nationality! That's where the dog fumbled! And hazing (there are 2 conscriptions! All of the same age !!) and the community and the national question ... Is it not destiny to look in the mirror? Who are you? why are you offended?
    An article of a guy offended by the Armed Forces that neither himself nor him personally defended anyone ..
    If the year of service was silent, why now deal with nagging? Who is lucky and carry it! Take it further ... and cry that the world is unfair negative
    1. Agieros
      7 November 2019 16: 27 New
      14
      https://78.ru/news/2019-10-23/posle_draki_ryadovogo_razvedroti_iz_lebyagi_s_oficerom_vozbudili_ugolovnoe_delo?utm_medium=mycom&utm_source=i

      Well, if after that you think that the whole problem is in the united rural children, then yes, you are right.
      1. garrett
        garrett 7 November 2019 16: 37 New
        +8
        swan last 10 years - really cesspool .... overpopulation in the barracks and poor infrastructure .... instead of building new barracks, they built a new club and medical unit ... a brilliant solution))
        ps quit from there in 2016
    2. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 7 November 2019 16: 27 New
      -11
      exactly. I heard such matches many times. it's some kind of circus. we probably have few children born because men disappear at a wild speed. maybe I'm too strict but they become a man through overcoming all kinds of difficulties. when two years there were elephants who plowed for all, regardless of their service life. how they put themselves and lived. in general, several real ones should pass through such a sieve. life will not get any simpler. and at age 18 it’s time to change. to become stronger.
      1. tesser
        tesser 7 November 2019 16: 40 New
        +5
        Quote: carstorm 11
        maybe I'm too strict but become a man through overcoming all kinds of difficulties

        You are absolutely right. At age 18, it is time to be minimally adapted for life in Russia. In particular, it’s very useful to know how to solve issues with corrupt government skins, or to learn how to run from rubbish.
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 7 November 2019 16: 43 New
          0
          I somehow didn’t run and didn’t solve questions and don’t decide ... well, you know better.
          1. tesser
            tesser 7 November 2019 16: 55 New
            0
            Quote: carstorm 11
            I somehow didn’t run and didn’t solve questions and didn’t solve

            But you learned a lot in the army. To each his own.
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 7 November 2019 16: 59 New
              -5
              I didn’t just learn, I also taught. and about which skins and about what cops I don’t understand.
              1. tesser
                tesser 7 November 2019 17: 24 New
                -3
                Quote: carstorm 11
                and about which skins and about what cops I don’t understand.

                Well, you see. They learned something, missed something, it always happens.
    3. Revival
      Revival 8 November 2019 20: 25 New
      -2
      Well, with this approach, I brought it further ..
  • DrVintorez
    DrVintorez 7 November 2019 16: 18 New
    +2
    Conclusion from the article: there is a massive outrage in the Russian Guard, because the author separately noted that in three parts, and this is a decent sample for one year.
    And the author personally witnessed this.

    Question to the author: was ZamPoOch in all three parts?
    1. Agieros
      7 November 2019 18: 30 New
      +1
      The post went to the owner. Unknowing soldiers have always been warned of his special status. As soon as he was demobilized, the post passed to one and his deputies.
      1. DrVintorez
        DrVintorez 7 November 2019 18: 44 New
        -3
        unlucky to see the author.
      2. AK1972
        AK1972 8 November 2019 13: 39 New
        +2
        Sergei! I'll tell you a story from my service. When I was a lieutenant, a platoon commander, a young replenishment came and I commanded a KMB company. Naturally, I selected the fighter fighters for the sapper company. so one of them after a while comes up to me and says: "T-shch, lieutenant, let me help you, report what is happening in the company, what the soldiers say about officers, etc., etc." I wanted to immediately pierce him in the sternum, but I resisted and asked: "What do you want for this, son?" Answer: and you will let me go on sack more often, fewer outfits.
        Well, I promised him outfits on a common basis, and I need more demand, and with any jamb, build a company and tell everyone about his proposal. He served a year honestly, served as all of his call, but a year later he nevertheless stole the bolt from the AK-74 from a gun for the purpose of selling. All! vacation, dismissal is prohibited. We shook everything and found the bolt wired into his work pea jacket, he confessed right away. The commander did not report on the state of emergency. But I fulfilled my promise. What happened next you understand. As a result, I had to transfer it to another part. I don’t know, fame stretched after him or not, but rather yes.
        I hope you are not one of those. By the way, we had hazing, but reasonable, without bullying. if he gets a fighter from his grandfather or from a foreman (whom they loved by the way) into his soul, then only for the purpose of education and science. In the event of conflicts between spirits and senior employees of other units, their grandfathers stood up for them. A responsible officer or contractor was in the company every night, so lawlessness was not allowed. The contractors weren’t what they are now - mature uncles who had served in the SA even two passed the 1st Chechen one. Yes, the soldiers did not address them by rank, but Uncle Vanya, Uncle Vitya, Uncle Slava. The service, of course, was not sugar, not a sanatorium, but my soldiers quit as adults, courageous men, although they came into the company with fear of driven animals in their eyes. Sorry to be long.
        1. Agieros
          8 November 2019 23: 56 New
          +1
          In my first part I was remembered as an uncomfortable soldier. After six months of service, a part of the company was seconded for two weeks to my first part (without me, to ensure the arrival of some delegation), and upon arrival they told me very funny stories about me, a half-crazy conscript who was in conflict with the locals. They were very surprised that in the new company no one had watched me like that. Towards the end of the service, I met in part of my old political officer, he was also surprised that nothing had happened to me. Strange people.
  • garrett
    garrett 7 November 2019 16: 20 New
    +1
    the author in 33 obron served most likely
  • Engineer
    Engineer 7 November 2019 16: 33 New
    +5
    After reading the article, I was once again convinced that there should be a personal choice to serve, not serve
    In the next room are two small, bespectacled graduate students. Physicists themselves, code, do calculations for a very large Dutch company. They are already earning big money for our firm. They have nothing to do in the Armed Forces, no matter what they write about "real men"
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 7 November 2019 16: 46 New
      +6
      My son is coding in the same way on freelance. He served - it only benefited him. Like it or not, even a year of service character tempers.
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 7 November 2019 17: 00 New
        0
        These people are not just coding. They do complex applied calculations in a software environment which they themselves modify to fit their tasks. One will receive a PhD in Eindhoven. The second here is on the HSE line. Without any pathos, this is the intellectual elite of our country.
        The army is not included in their plans, and I cannot blame them for this.
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 7 November 2019 17: 08 New
          +1
          For applicants for the elite, service is just needed. For mere mortals, this is not so significant.
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 7 November 2019 17: 10 New
            -2
            I still want this to be a conscious voluntary choice.
            1. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 7 November 2019 17: 16 New
              -6
              A conscious choice is the prerogative of adulthood, but not of youth.
              1. Engineer
                Engineer 7 November 2019 17: 18 New
                -3
                Lord, the world is changing.
                People in the 18-22 of the year start-ups create, go to overseas universities. I am silent about creating families. If they are graduate students, then it is clear that their age is 22 +. Not young men in any way.
                1. Warrior2015
                  Warrior2015 10 November 2019 20: 46 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Engineer
                  Lord, the world is changing.
                  People in the 18-22 of the year start-ups create, go to overseas universities. I am silent about creating families. If they are graduate students, then it is clear that their age is 22 +. Not young men in any way.

                  And many people simply cannot understand this.
                  They even did not understand the terms that you wrote.
                  A professional army of highly trained specialists from volunteers who choose to serve, without a zonal conceptual atmosphere - this is an ideal combat organization.
                  1. Engineer
                    Engineer 11 November 2019 21: 17 New
                    +1
                    Perfect maybe
                    But it seems to me that even in our conditions it is possible to achieve something worthwhile if you answer a simple question to start with yourself. What is the draft army for Russia?
                    1. School of life
                    2. A tool for hot war
                    3. Mobilization reserve.
                    4. The selection of personnel for the professional army.
                    And then the questions arising from here
                    Why in the army are gonads weighing 60 kg? Serve as an example? Squealing over them like chukhany and rags?
                    Why, when preparing food in a certain factory (grandmothers whispered at the entrance), one month was enough, provided that the person knew what the army was and was familiar just with the gunner.?
                    For one month, a fighter from scratch was trained to give injections, put a dropper, navigate on the map and on the ground, plus the basics of tactics. At intense firing.
                    Think about what criteria you can identify and use the abilities of a draftee.
                    Example. Private K-at the end of KMB performs UKS perfectly. One of all replenishment. For the first time in his life, he kept an automatic machine. After a year ml. Art. K-a second time performs UKS. The rating is excellent. He may be a Marxman, and he spent two years in checkpoints at the checkpoint.
        2. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 7 November 2019 17: 39 New
          0
          Speak only for yourself. After many years after graduation, I calmly solve systemic equations and if there is a need, all my children and grandchildren run to me. And this is not only in mathematics - literature, physical chemistry, in drawing, am I really good at it, fine arts? Yes Easy. You stood in the Hermitage and looked at Delacroix's "Lion Hunt"? Music? Even easier. The first tenor in the world? Who! You think now you will climb to find out, but you do not have your own opinion.
    2. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 7 November 2019 16: 46 New
      -3
      yes of course) let them sit cod. grandmas earn. they will give the debt back and at least do something) the year of life is not the biggest payment for the fact that you can do it. and with their skills they find business there.
      1. tesser
        tesser 7 November 2019 16: 54 New
        -2
        Quote: carstorm 11
        give the debt and at least do something

        Nobody owes you anything.
        Quote: AS Ivanov.
        He served - it only benefited him.

        Your son is lucky. It could not be lucky. For him and you, this risk is acceptable, for others - no.
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 7 November 2019 17: 01 New
          -2
          you should not. and you must. to give his homeland military duty as a man. and only so.
          1. tesser
            tesser 7 November 2019 17: 22 New
            -2
            Quote: carstorm 11
            to give his homeland military duty as a man. and only so.

            Of course not. If I’m really going to not run, but to fight, when the kneading happens, I must independently prepare for this state of affairs. If I want to prepare at the government expense, then the year is clearly not enough, and only a few units (SPN, etc.) are suitable for me. Ideally, I need to go to Israel, serve 3 years there, then return and prepare to defend my homeland privately, in the worst case, signing a contract with the Armed Forces or in a well-known catering establishment. After the service, I have to seriously maintain my level, which is not possible for all HUS and is, frankly, fraught with serious risk. In our country, they don’t like initiators, especially armed ones.

            This is the first. And secondly, the Motherland is what I am. What I owe myself - I will decide for myself.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 7 November 2019 17: 31 New
              0
              Quote: tesser
              Homeland - this is me

              good laughing good # faceted !!!

              Quote: tesser
              What I owe myself - I will decide for myself

              Nah ... request
              1. tesser
                tesser 7 November 2019 17: 40 New
                0
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                # faceted !!!

                Thank you.
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                Nah ...

                This is better for me to know. Specifically, for the debt to the motherland that is being discussed, the author describes the contingent of debtors as follows:
                A fifth of the personnel from the Caucasians, a fifth of the half-criminals, two fifth of the stupid come from the villages and a fifth of the caught or surrendered deviators.

                The rest, apparently, are either running better or are restructuring their debt to the Homeland in some way.
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 7 November 2019 17: 43 New
                  +5
                  Quote: tesser
                  the author describes the contingent of debtors so

                  Do you believe the author? Your business ... I was especially impressed with the "piece of the automatic shutter in the leg" ...

                  How old is it, "Motherland itself"? wink laughing

                  Quote: tesser
                  I better know that.

                  The hopes of young men feed ...
                  1. tesser
                    tesser 7 November 2019 17: 53 New
                    -6
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    I was especially impressed with the "piece of the automatic shutter in the leg" ...

                    Do you get to the lights? The very possibility of injury does not raise questions for me. The shutter was there or the brake compensator - for me it does not matter. Even if the author is not right in this particular moment - for me this text as a whole does not compromise.
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    How old is it, "Motherland itself"?

                    Number of years = number of bastards between avatar and nickname. I am not going to drink with you behind garages offline.
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    The hopes of young men feed ...

                    In the original, the science of the young men feeds.
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 7 November 2019 18: 00 New
                      +4
                      Quote: tesser
                      Do you get to the lights?

                      Aha yes

                      Quote: tesser
                      The shutter was there or a brake compensator ...

                      Sun, present "brake-compensator" from AK ... to the studio laughing

                      Quote: tesser
                      for me this text as a whole does not compromise

                      There are many places like this. Who served will understand.

                      Quote: tesser
                      Number of years = number of bastards between avatar and nickname

                      Clear. Schoolboy request
                      1. tesser
                        tesser 7 November 2019 18: 33 New
                        -7
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Sun, present "brake-compensator" from AK

                        Look at the disassembly diagram in your post below.
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        There are many places like this. Who served will understand.

                        Essentially, please.
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Clear. Schoolboy

                        As you say.
                      2. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 7 November 2019 20: 06 New
                        +3
                        Quote: tesser
                        Look at the disassembly diagram in your post below

                        There is no "brake-compensator". What is there is called differently laughing

                        But in general - I like to listen to stories about the army ... never serving in it wink
              2. DrVintorez
                DrVintorez 7 November 2019 18: 01 New
                +4
                Quote: tesser
                This is better for me to know.

                Apparently for you Homeland, this is where W is warm. Well, straight brother2.
          2. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 7 November 2019 18: 02 New
            0
            Well, with your thinking you really have a road to Israel) you are such a person and you vegetate on a Russian military site) a nightmare. do not waste time on us plebeians! Burn to the democratic corners of the world where you can decide what you want, but we have such laws and we live by them.
            1. tesser
              tesser 7 November 2019 18: 35 New
              -7
              Quote: carstorm 11
              do not waste time on us plebeians!

              Do not value, I look, people who are ready are already coming back from Israel to defend their homeland.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 7 November 2019 18: 50 New
                +1
                experience tells me that people running back and forth can but they will not protect anything.
            2. mmaxx
              mmaxx 8 November 2019 17: 29 New
              +1
              The most interesting thing is that a person wants to serve 3 years in the Israeli army and does not want 1 year of the Russian. Why's that? Can anyone think about the lost time?
        2. Fan-fan
          Fan-fan 8 November 2019 17: 48 New
          -4
          you should. pay military duty to your homeland

          Can these words be said to the sons of Sechin, Rogozin, and others, vaguely?
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 12 November 2019 01: 28 New
            0
            Yes, you already got with your yachts, “army man”. There are other sons Pulikovsky, Shpak - google. Fathers were generals, google the fate of sons and do not write for yachts anymore. Otherwise, you look like a patient from House No. 6.
  • leybshtandartss
    leybshtandartss 7 November 2019 16: 38 New
    -2
    Grandfather can not be traced) it all depends on people on their character.
  • Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 7 November 2019 16: 55 New
    +7
    My son served in the Russian Guard, part of Dorozhnaya Moscow Street, autumn 17 autumn 18, he went to the army himself, without entering the institute, 11 classes behind him, a medal ... they went to look at him like a museum. Once for the service he got a conflict, was bobbing a bit with the conscript. Who remembers the championship was, and his son is very good with English, so the officers constantly pulled as a translator, and then it turned out that he was playing wind instruments, transferred to an orchestra, like a lafa, but in fact, before anybody got ready to get divorces on the parade ground and so on, outfits, yes, they were .. once I went to the medical unit, but the company himself took him away, there was something with a knee ... he served, he served several friends with whom he is constantly in contact, he matured, he never started smoking, which is good ... in a conversation he says that of course, by and large, interest for 50 I, but no regrets ... were they and Dagestani, but got along.
  • bubalik
    bubalik 7 November 2019 17: 12 New
    +9
    Good day hi
    Can a respected author explain: how to change three military units per year? What are the reasons?
    1. Agieros
      7 November 2019 18: 04 New
      10
      Strictly speaking, I served in two parts, and one was sent for a month. The first part is where the training was. Distributed to the author. There I became an uncomfortable soldier. The second day in the company - a conflict with two Caucasians, they tried to force them to wash the floors instead. The commander simply screwed everyone up. The second conflict was in the dining room, just a couple of Dagestanis tried to force them to wash the floors after a potato peeling outfit (I was in the dishwashing group at that moment). Well shouted, threatened. But the political officer took me to the note. As soon as the neighboring part filed a transfer request, they immediately transferred. In the second part, they were transferred only once to another company, well, it was a bureaucracy, at the time of the transfer I was listed as a BTR-80 gunner and machine gunner, and every six months, all gunners, snipers and machine gunners were removed from their posts and transferred to other companies. That's all.
      1. bubalik
        bubalik 7 November 2019 18: 10 New
        +4
        The first part where there was training
        ,,, after training is assigned a sergeant (ml.ser-ta), or is there no such thing now?
        1. Agieros
          7 November 2019 18: 22 New
          +8
          There are two kinds of what we have called training. The first is a monthly KMB, the second is, if I'm not mistaken, a six-month training for some specific positions, but this is mainly for remrots. For the second, sergeants were previously given, but in the past few years these are only contract positions. Conscripts can get the maximum corporal, but it depends on the position. Lance corporals are given to machine gunners, gunners and other "narrow" servicemen. Theoretically, you can get a junior sergeant on the draft, but I saw only two of them - one guy from the commandant company, who stood up as a senior in the squadron of the headquarters (for some reason they did not have enough sergeants at that time and he was given a rank) and one guy from medrots, I do not know his position. Like a nurse.
          1. bubalik
            bubalik 7 November 2019 18: 25 New
            +3
            ,,, so it turns out now all the sergeants are contract soldiers?
            1. Agieros
              7 November 2019 18: 32 New
              +4
              In the National Guard, yes. The Ministry of Defense may be different, although it seems to me there too.
              1. bubalik
                bubalik 7 November 2019 18: 37 New
                +4
                Agieros
                Today, 19: 32

                ,,, still a strange situation. Officers, sergeants are contract soldiers, just soldiers are contract soldiers and some percentage of conscripts who serve a year. And the situation is this request ambiguous. I thought it all stopped in 00 of the year.
                1. Agieros
                  7 November 2019 18: 51 New
                  +6
                  Well look. The officers who come to the unit after the institute are disappointed in the service for a year approximately, even faster. Someone becomes aggressive, someone passive. In the summer of 2017, 10 young officers came to our unit, after a month of service, 4 quit, terminated the contract. With a corresponding fine in 400000, if not mistaken. They thought it was better to pay than spend 20 years. Those who have no choice remain. Further. sergeants. People who agreed to a contract for military service were divided into four categories. The first is poor fellows. Those who were riled in the service, who decided to sign a contract to ease the conditions of service. They give a phone, pay money, you can leave the unit. The second is unemployed. Strictly speaking, those who do not have work in their hometown / village. They adequately understand that they will not get into the institute by knowledge, they cannot pay, there is no work. Still others are cruel individuals. He liked stealing, hooligan, fighting in a civilian woman, but there he was in prison for it - and then they pay money for it. They usually work with aggressive officers. Fourth - Caucasians. Well, with them, and so it is clear. They roof their own people, they love to mess (like bringing snus into the territory of a unit and selling it to soldiers). That's what we get in total.
                  1. bubalik
                    bubalik 7 November 2019 18: 58 New
                    +6
                    ,,, and it turns out the conscript himself sad
                  2. garrett
                    garrett 8 November 2019 09: 20 New
                    -2
                    Sergey, you have some youthful maximalism in reasoning ... everyone has different motivation, that 20 years ago, that today ... do not simplify please)
                  3. Warrior2015
                    Warrior2015 10 November 2019 20: 51 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Agieros
                    In the summer of 2017, 10 young officers came to our unit, after a month of service, 4 quit, terminated the contract. With a corresponding fine in 400000, if not mistaken. They thought it was better to pay than spend 20 years.

                    Awesome statistics. What did these jerks think about when they entered the Officers' College?!? Daddy forced? Delicious salary seemed? ... OFFICER is a vocation.
                    1. servant.
                      servant. 11 November 2019 05: 42 New
                      +1
                      And besides calling, maybe you still need to comply with the law on the status of military personnel?
  • g1v2
    g1v2 7 November 2019 17: 21 New
    15
    To begin with, in terms of hazing, the army of zero and modern is a huge difference. I served urgently in BB in 2001-2, my younger brother in the motorized rifle brigade was already 10-11m. And the hazing that they had, in comparison with ours, caused only a smile. I’m not going to tell scary stories from my life, how, after the grandfathers brought up the young, they had to wash the toilet from the blood, etc. Those who served in the 90s and the zeros themselves can tell a lot of such things. But in general, the life of the soldiers and relations were completely different. request
    Hazing has always been a clear hierarchy, tied to the service life and cohesion of the call. This is not a matter of strength, but of cohesion of the call. You can be a jogger or a kmc to fight, but when a person of 8, with his fists wrapped in wet towels, educates you, neither strength nor regalia will help you. Checked more than once. Accordingly, there has always been a hierarchy and their rights and obligations at each stage of service. I repeat - this was not a matter of strength, but of hierarchy and structure. That is, all the work has always been done by spirits and young people. It doesn't matter if they are cool like a ninja or not. But in terms of bullying, it all depended on how friendly the call was. If friendly, then grandfathers touched him carefully and without excesses. It is clear that in any appeal there were pariahs, that is, those who constantly muttered and, because of this, were humiliated. Since they framed everyone with their jambs, they also raised them all. If there were threaded ones which, with their finger gnawing, substituted a brigade, then the officers themselves left their bringing to life to their grandfathers. According to the charter, an officer cannot beat a soldier, even if he sends him publicly to hell, but for this he can deprive grandfathers of dismissals, concessions, and drive them according to the charter. And then the grandfathers themselves will explain everything to the cause of which they suffer.
    About the dirty work. Well, for example, I never washed the toilet during the entire service, even in the attire. I always found someone who would do it for me. But at the same time, the officers could drive on the glasses any delinquent - even grandfathers. But dirty and hard work was enough for everyone. As for the Caucasians - the question of their number and unity of the unit. When a Caucasian is always a great guy. Two three are tolerant, but small problems are already starting, as they must keep the mark in front of each other. If more, then they begin to advance their hierarchy if they are not stopped in time. request
    What has changed now. It is clear that the parts are different in location and relations within. Different in contingent. Having served in one, it’s stupid to say that everything is the same everywhere. To begin with, the hierarchy has disappeared. That is, there is no longer such that you have to do dirty or humiliating work just because of the service life. And that has changed a lot. Second - life has changed. Such a simple thing as a washing machine, when you do not need to wash your uniform in cold water with your hands at night and put it on wet in the morning - it costs a lot. Further, sergeants are contract soldiers and officers who are constantly in the barracks. That is, a massive pumping of spirits or large-scale beating without a pale can not be arranged. Further, regular inspections. Maybe the medical unit will only grunt at the bruise, but something more serious will immediately provoke a reaction and investigation. request
    On the whole, young males serve urgently in the army at a time when their psychology clearly requires self-affirmation and determination of their place in the social hierarchy. Therefore, as in any male team, alpha males, beta and outsiders inevitably appear in it, which roll down and become pariahs. The main thing is that this is determined by personal qualities and how you set yourself, and not by the service life. Naturally, the fraternity has not disappeared and will not disappear. Moreover, they come not only from the Caucasus. And naturally, a sergeant or officer always has the opportunity to educate a fighter by driving in accordance with the charter. 6 hours drill or sports training, hand-to-hand combat training with a completely legal scuffle. Write the main outline. Driving under the charter can be cooler than any hazing. request
    In part of my brother, and he served in the headquarters, 13 corpses passed in a year. All of stupidity and gouging, there were unregistered and fraternity. But there wasn’t the main thing - hazing as a hierarchy. That is, the relationship in the team no longer depends on the service life. There is no such thing that any conscript must go through his period of humiliation and dirty work. Now everything is individual and depends on how each particular soldier put himself. Plus, any serious self-harm cannot go unnoticed without investigation. In general, when my brother told me about their hazing, then I had a feeling that he was in the resort, and not in the army. By the way, the feelings from the author’s story are the same. This is not hazing - it's snot with sugar. And cause only a smile. It is clear that there are parts and where relations are steeper, but this is not a system, but anomalies. request
    About the soldier in Transbaikalia. As I understand it, there is one of the dead officers, built a system in which a group of soldiers "educated" those to whom he points. And the shooter was threatened that if he mowed, he would be raped. And the frightened fighter, who was intimidated, grabbed the machine gun. Here you also need to understand that it is Transbaikalia, the Altai Territory and the region as a whole that are now the most criminogenic part of the country. This is the main focus of AUE in schools and, accordingly, criminal concepts, along with schoolchildren, come to the army. And there is a threat to "drop". , almost the main threat. As I understand it, out of the 8 victims and the dead, only two were not aisles. The rest are just those who threatened the boy. Tch guy is mentally healthy, but intimidated. In general, the conclusion is simple - some must be cleaned, like all parts located in this region must be checked. And finally, to take up the eradication of AUE in schools in the region, so that this infection does not flow from schools to the army. hi
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 7 November 2019 17: 44 New
      +5
      Quote: g1v2
      g1v2 (Vitaliy)

      I would have the opportunity to put 100 pluses
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 7 November 2019 18: 41 New
      +3
      g1v2 (Vitaliy) Today

      Colleagues please pay attention My positive feedback on Vitali's comment at 18:30 Moscow time 3 minuses, and Vitaly’s comment scored at the same time 6 pluses good
      It woke up our local bullets from "plasticine" , they are "minus writers enthusiasts" laughing Who are already afraid to polemize in the open, so they, like small fleas from under the sofa, bite laughing laughing laughing
      Keep up the good work, but I give you the last Chinese warning, no rules means no rules! your will! And fingers and the "-" button on the keyboard should be protected wink
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 12 November 2019 01: 34 New
        0
        A bread cutter, specifically one minus from me, never hid from a gopota. I explain - what did the previous commentator write in the end? Fight AUE. Do you want to hear your speechless comments with “garbage”? Are you still applauding? Look palms do not fill, Bread cutter.
    3. Doctor
      Doctor 8 November 2019 11: 50 New
      +1
      In part of my brother, and he served in the headquarters, 13 corpses passed in a year.

      that he was in the resort, not in the army.


      13 corpses per year? And how many people in part? Even if the level of the division, it’s still some kind of a creature, not a resort.
      1. g1v2
        g1v2 8 November 2019 14: 05 New
        +4
        The brigade is about 4-4,5 thousand people. In general, the number of corpses throughout the army is approximately 500 people per year. Over a million goals are few. By the way, various New newspapers liked to use this, finding the graves of such soldiers with the date of death and shouting that they had died in the Donbass, in Syria, and so on.
        All deaths are due to stupidity and carelessness, and not because of the conditions of service or hazing. For example, two drunken in the kunga choked on vomit - recorded as carbon monoxide poisoning. Another one on the parade ground said "do you think I'm weak?" and blew my brains out. They wrote it down naturally as careless handling of weapons and so on.
        1. AK1972
          AK1972 8 November 2019 15: 00 New
          +2
          I absolutely agree, Vitaliy! In our neighboring regiment, after the oath of two Muscovite recruits, our parents took them to the city. Naturally brought in a bag of all sorts of nishtyakov. Having their parents on the train, they decided to have a bite to eat and swept almost all of their food so as not to share. Two corpses with a rupture of the stomach. The pathologist who opened them was very surprised, because the stomach can expand by a maximum of 2 cm, and they have been expanded by 16 (I can not vouch for accuracy, not a doctor, I write what I heard). There were 2 corpses during exercises, but also due to sloppiness. Three infantrymen found an unexploded ordnance and in order to get TNT they began to open it with what the infantry had - MPL. One was smarter and said he could jerk. They said to him: If you do, go away. He went behind a tree. As a result, the ss ... for a concussion and stuttering, and daredevils gathered in parts.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Golovan Jack
    Golovan Jack 7 November 2019 17: 24 New
    -1
    Only one was released from the parade, to which a piece of the shutter of a broken machine gun entered the leg

    Question to the author: what "piece of the shutter"? A piece - a shutter, what, also broke? How is it necessary to break the machine gun so that the bolt "fits in the leg"? belay



    Or did the author mess up the shutter with something else? wink

    Three benches, two along the sides and one in the center, 11 soldiers each, no belts, no strong designs

    The author burns with napalm... but somehow his faith is less and less request
    1. Agieros
      7 November 2019 17: 52 New
      11
      The machine was broken in half (to be honest, only one broke the machine). The broken-off shutter head entered the boy in the adducting muscle of his left leg (he kept the machine between the legs during the trip). And as for the rigid structures, well, the benches are attached with a pair of bolts to the bottom, side to the walls of the body, you can easily break everything off with your hands. How to scientifically describe this, from the point of view of the theorem I do not know.
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 7 November 2019 18: 04 New
        0
        Quote: Agieros
        The machine was broken in half ... The broken shutter head entered ...

        All. Thank. I have no more questions.

        I will only note that breaking an automatic machine like that is impossible just theoretically... There is too much iron around this very "bolt with a head" request
        1. DrVintorez
          DrVintorez 8 November 2019 06: 29 New
          +2
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          I will only note that breaking the machine like that is impossible just theoretically. There is too much iron around this very "bolt with a head"

          quite possible. but then all the "4 Urals", together with the contents, would turn into selected minced meat.
    2. ZAV69
      ZAV69 8 November 2019 09: 53 New
      +4
      Quote: Golovan Jack
      Or did the author mess up the shutter with something else?

      Most likely ran into the protrusion of the bolt frame, they definitely can break a leg.
  • samarin1969
    samarin1969 7 November 2019 17: 34 New
    +7
    M-dya .... It turns out that nothing has changed since Soviet times. Morals like on pirate ships. Doesn't the state have a task to burn out this "kid's lawlessness" with a "hot iron"?
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 7 November 2019 17: 45 New
      +4
      Please read the comments. It specifically and substantively explains that the author's experience is a kindergarten in comparison with what "real men" went through. It should be so. The author almost chilled himself with a hookah. And if he is weak in spirit, then these are his problems. "Real men" only get stronger from this. And in general, in the old days ... wow.
      1. samarin1969
        samarin1969 7 November 2019 18: 22 New
        +7
        I read the comments and the article with great interest. In the 80s he served in the classical unit with all the attributes of army humor: outfits, training grounds, "ethnographic vinaigrette", parade ground, lockers, etc.
        No big problems happened. I had to think quickly, work and remain men in any situation. This pile of iron and people was least of all like an army: something in between a zone and a pioneer camp. Of the officers and warrant officers, the most decent tried to escape to civilian life. The rest of the alcohol was divided into careerists and those who were "loved by the soldiers." Among the conscripts, sergeant stripes meant nothing. There was complete "grandfather's self-government." True, no one twitched against the orders of the officers, even the "natives of the mountains and deserts." In reality, this community of "non-men" had little to do with the army. Combat and physical training was symbolic. Mainly contained themselves. At night there was complete anarchy in the barracks. The clashes of the fellow countrymen turned into a scuffle. We also have a conscript shot in 87m at the "grandfathers". There were both hanged and broken. ... And this was considered one of the most combat-ready units of the Odessa district.
        I repeat. With such morals - this is not an army of real men. This is a parody of her.
        1. Warrior2015
          Warrior2015 10 November 2019 20: 58 New
          +1
          Quote: samarin1969
          In reality, this community of "non-men" had little to do with the army. Combat and physical training was symbolic.

          Here! But the state is cheap and some officers are comfortable - there are always a lot of gratuitous working hands and just a contingent, from which we can have various nishtyaks.
  • Sergei 777
    Sergei 777 7 November 2019 18: 04 New
    +7
    He himself served in the RViA 2017-2018. We have no maladies. There were sometimes disassemblies among themselves, but this is so pure everyday life. In general, it is surprising that many expect 100% order from the army. The army is a cast of society, and society is far from perfect.
  • BISMARCK94
    BISMARCK94 7 November 2019 18: 15 New
    -1
    The term in peacetime is the last century, as I thought before the service, and I think after the service. Make adequate military training 3-5 months. with the study of materiel and other preparations, it’s quite enough to train as an ordinary.
  • Moore
    Moore 7 November 2019 18: 16 New
    +5
    Tribesmen intercede for him, and no one will intercede for the Russian boys.

    The author, never thought why this is so (and it really is). And who exactly should stand up for the Russian guys?
    1. Agieros
      7 November 2019 18: 40 New
      +6
      They themselves do not want. There is no team. There is a set of individuals in platoons, not 18-year-old boys, but 23-26-year-olds who can rally the team, but they don’t want to. Usually they do not unite in their collective (clerk, senior departments, and so on). They protect themselves, they know where to get something, there is cooperation with a similar set of individualists from other companies. Keep neutrality with the Caucasians. Other guys defend themselves with them only if there is a chance of global problems for the entire company (for example, a check from Moscow tomorrow, and the soldier does not have a neat uniform or insignia or does not know something, then they’ll put him on and teach him and protect him from other soldiers).
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard 7 November 2019 20: 14 New
        +9
        Quote: Agieros
        They themselves do not want. There is no team. There is a set of individuals in platoons, not 18-year-old boys, but 23-26-year-olds who can rally the team, but they don’t want to. Usually they do not unite in their collective (clerk, senior departments, and so on). They protect themselves, they know where to get something, there is cooperation with a similar set of individualists from other companies. Keep neutrality with the Caucasians. Other guys defend themselves with them only if there is a chance of global problems for the entire company (for example, a check from Moscow tomorrow, and the soldier does not have a neat uniform or insignia or does not know something, then they’ll put him on and teach him and protect him from other soldiers).

        This is the problem, there were fewer of us in part, and we held each other tightly. touched one immediately rose all together. twice they fought with crowbars, mounts and hammers, even a certain number left for the hospital. But they stopped climbing to us, were forced to reckon.
      2. Moore
        Moore 8 November 2019 04: 16 New
        +8
        In his Lieutenant-Starleysky time, he explained to his 18-20 year old aliens that if they themselves did not learn to confront the same proud sons of the Caucasus, willingly rushing to pay off five or seven, no Zampolitian hand, prosecutor’s office, or I myself could protect them. It may be fortunate that in my squad (infantry platoon) there were only light brown heads, but for some time I managed to put together a semblance of a team in which proud carriers namusa did not climb. But they themselves didn’t, didn’t want to ... It was back in the 80s, and what’s happening now with the developed atomization of society - the son-officer tells.
    2. VeteranVSSSR
      VeteranVSSSR 8 November 2019 20: 16 New
      -1
      Well, I don’t know .... I always thought that such authority as Kalashnikov (AKM) would always come to the defense ....
  • orcinus
    orcinus 7 November 2019 18: 35 New
    14
    It must be admitted that the case in Transbaikalia "revealed the secret" that hazing "still exists." I would like to immediately answer the "old guard", which served back in Soviet times, and believes that hazing "is and will be ... and nothing terrible will happen from the back of the head ..." - understand, the new young generation is different: they do not have those concepts the decency on which you grew up during the Union. Five for one, please, "knock" - no problem. Look how many videos on the Internet, where children at 11, 12, 13 years old are beating demonstratively or bullied on one! The next reason for everything that we are discussing here is the cultural environment: hundreds of "idiotic" TV series about bandits and concepts, chanson festivals (most performers even boast about their connections with the underworld). I agree, someone has already written about the "sergeant school". We can laugh at the "stupid Yankees" as much as we want, but their sergeancy system is three heads more perfect than ours, and it's a sin not to admit it. And, lastly, a question for those who graduated from military universities: in what subject were you taught to lead people? Not to set a task a la "from the fence to sunset", and then through the mighty Russian demand (and, sometimes, many enter "satanic rage"), namely, to correctly set goals, define tasks, understand what you are legally and how you can to demand from subordinates?
  • 113262a
    113262a 7 November 2019 18: 45 New
    +3
    He served in the GSVG 83-85 Tanker. in 23 TP and 95 and 70 TP the orders are the same! Each of the three tank battalions of the regiment was recruited from the same period. HAZARDS WAS NOT! In the supply platoons in them, there, yes, rabble-cambrod, the spirits were hung up! In SME regiments, the same garbage-crews of BMPs of the same period, landing-JIGITYKHAKASYARMYANS diluted by the Slavs. Ivot there ... Morality is just such an organization! I understand that the combat readiness of the baht after training is so-so. But the training was different - we are from Elany-, a third are from Karakau, Germany. Elanskie-on the head were more prepared.
  • yehat
    yehat 7 November 2019 18: 52 New
    +2
    hazing may not be eradicated, but such bullying is necessary and possible.
    for example, giving everyone a weapon. it’s very interesting how grandfather will rot the soldier who has a loaded machine gun. But it is, a trash version of the American type.
    Surely there is better. Extortions and robberies, coercion to condemned acts - all this should be severely punished!
    Even if 5 cents shot. See how other armies deal with this.
    There are junior officers. many that serve for many years. They need order and all their soldiers are afraid.
  • Stalker84
    Stalker84 7 November 2019 19: 08 New
    14
    Thank you very much Avto. He described everything correctly and carefully. I want to add on my own - the topic of Caucasians in the army is sooooo carefully studded and circumvented. And in the same. They pretend that there is no problem, but it is. And awesome. Caucasians behave like savages and arrange outrage. If there are more than 5 people in the company, this is already a problem. If they are half, then the company as a combat unit ceases to exist at all. This is a gang of gangs. About criminals, the same is true when I served there were several of these in the company, while they boasted about it openly. Even in the hospital, there was one type who was lying there, so he praised the same, I raped the girls in civilian life with my friends, when the cops came to them and the uncle colonel sent him to dig him. About 20 people in the company were drug addicts, another 10-12 people had mental problems, the same number of Caucasians of which 5-6 were without problems. The only normal ones are rural ones in the Chita and Irkutsk regions. Not very educated, but strong and on your mind. I myself, eyesight - 4, scleosis, flat feet, underweight, without tears you will not look. Which of me is a fighter, why take these to the army? Contractors are simply rabble, drunks, drug addicts, idlers, by the way, they encouraged the same theft. In general, honestly, I can’t imagine how such, a part can fight, and it’s sad ....
    1. evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru
      evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru 9 November 2019 18: 18 New
      -1
      And how the stupid armed forces of a stupid state will fight?! History has given clear answers to this question more than once.
      RI collapsed without a visible impact, at ne x n and x ,, enemies. The union repeated the path of the empire. Millions of loafers from power structures did not devalue the protection of these states from the enemies of the internal and external.
      Only a REAL state can have a real army. The analogy with the family is appropriate. It is unlikely that a family of drunks and loafers raised a hardworking son - a teetotaler.
      ... The Union began to deteriorate in the second half of the 70s. Accordingly, from his sun went a kind of "plow". And by the beginning of the 80s, which was no longer in the SA, BB and Navy ... . Parts where all these achievements were absent were rare, being an exception to the rule. ,, P teryl, state and lost the Army. ,, The fish rots from the head ,, ... How many centuries of this folk wisdom?
      On the jacket of Leonid Ilyich there was not enough space due to the abundance of Hero stars, but in 1976 he also hung the Order of Victory, ignoring the status of the award. He made the whole country take notes, little gray ones, the little books of his memoirs - ,, Small land ,,, Renaissance ,, .... Nobody stopped. No one corrected. But veterans of the Second World War were still strong and were s and l about. A powerful organization called ,, CPSU, ”which looked? Millions of Communists and Komsomol members.
      ,, Pustot, ,, does not work. Even participation in the database does not make HOMO sapiens out of a homo, but from a “conscript” a warrior. And you don’t have to invent anything. ,, Bicycle ,, in this matter has long been invented and ,, America ,, opened centuries ago. The Great Suvorov said: ,, To teach the faithless army - what to grind burnt iron ,,. Who doesn’t understand that it’s worth listening to Alexander Vasilievich? Kutuzov did not force Borodino to repeat the statutes of the troops and did not give out popular prints of Rastopchin ... But he ordered the Smolensk Icon of the Mother of God to be brought before the troops.
      In the most fierce years of the Khrushchev persecution of the Church, the country built a memorial in the city on the Volga. The name, Stalingrad, was banned. A sculpture of the Motherland was built. Former commander of the 62nd Army Vasily Chuykov rushed after the war Vuchetich .... He and thousands of soldiers of the Red Army saw with their own eyes the appearance of the Mother of God at Staligrad. Exactly the way the Soviet sculptor later ripened (making forced minor adjustments to the image) ... Go, tell them, who went through the hell of Stalingrad, that, it seemed, that, it seemed, ....
      Three, whales, have been holding Russia for centuries - ORTHODOXY, SELF-POWER, PEOPLE. All other new-fangled notions of outright enemies and ordinary fools- ,, smoke ,,,, void ,,,, mirage ,, ... I also want to play a game? There is reason to believe that the current state can be repeated ,, mournful way ,, of their predecessors ..
      However, the game, in Orthodoxy, will not help. ,, The number of temples per capita, does not play a role. It is necessary to teach the Law of God both at school and in higher educational institutions of the RF Ministry of Defense. It is necessary that the little man knows that he, in full view, in front of the Creator.
  • Engineer
    Engineer 7 November 2019 19: 11 New
    +2
    By the way, the topic of the ratio of non-regulation for combatant, shooting units engaged in intensive combat training and rear-support and material support units was already touched upon here.
    Continuing this topic
    In 2006, I came across such statistics (Distributed with us in the form of manuals for junior officers)
    The number of violations detected (unfortunately, at least kill, I do not remember the reporting period) in parts
    1st place - Tambov Special Forces Brigade.
    2nd place - Presidential Regiment
    3rd place OSBRO
    We see that all these are elite units. It is possible that it was because of the increased attention and a record number of checks that a record number of offenses were revealed in them, and not because the tin was there. But it is significant that it was these parts that were among the first to be completed entirely from one call.
    Maybe someone has something to add. I once found this information very interesting
    1. Agieros
      7 November 2019 21: 03 New
      +5
      Well, if you are interested, in companies now hang out such documents as the Certificate of Violations, and the Incident Sheet. If I remember their names correctly. On the first, statistics of criminal cases from their unit and nearby units are given, on the second, "accidental" injuries to soldiers.
      For understanding, on the first sheet one of these guys took the first place, I don’t remember the last name
      https://bryansktoday.ru/article/50215 Предыдущий призыв был, вроде адекватный. Потом дали 18 лет ему. Ну и в общем на первом листке печаталось все, что не возможно скрыть - первые двое убийства, третий тяжелые телесные, четвертый доведение до суицида и так далее. На втором листке писалось все, что можно завуалировать. Солдат утром поскользнулся заходя в душевую - получил перелом ключицы. Перед зарядкой "случайно" оступился и сломал ногу. Третий также "случайно" уронил что-то на ногу. Ну и в том стиле. И уже правонарушений и нет, есть просто много невезучих солдат, и статистика выправляется.
    2. Doctor
      Doctor 7 November 2019 21: 39 New
      +3
      The number of violations detected (unfortunately, at least kill, I do not remember the reporting period) in parts
      1st place - Tambov Special Forces Brigade.
      2nd place - Presidential Regiment
      3rd place OSBRO


      For our special forces, this is in the order of things, there it is considered to be part of the combat training, and the Presidential Regiment on this list for another reason, they have a very high level of detection and fixing of offenses. In general, I had to go there, terrible statism in its worst manifestation.
      1. AK1972
        AK1972 8 November 2019 12: 56 New
        0
        So I also happened to be in the commandant regiment in Lefortovo. That's where the w-pa with the three O's. And I saw the drill of the company of the guard of honor. After I told about what they saw to my soldiers, they realized how lucky they were to serve in a division of constant combat readiness (in the late 90s there were only 3 of them).
  • Li17
    Li17 7 November 2019 19: 46 New
    +8
    Quote: Captive
    Ok guys, listen here. Tomorrow I sit down for a thank-you letter to your parents describing your exploits in the field

    Reminded. I had one such one, from Azerbaijan. I even remember my last name. I got it. I wrote a letter to my parents. His father came with a wand and his older brother. They laid a table in the office, listened ... In general, they beat him so he already tried to grab them by the hands and a stick (he sat and was expanding his son under the table). The best soldier has become, and his fellow countrymen are also looking at it! I not only sent him a letter, but also sent his father to the village for education!
    1. garrett
      garrett 8 November 2019 09: 25 New
      0
      there were several similar cases))) as a rule, the guys were from the Caucasus)
  • Tank hard
    Tank hard 7 November 2019 19: 55 New
    +7
    The article made me remember the past ... I graduated from school in 1990, studied at a physical education institute, the years were cool. there was no hunt to serve, but there was no military department either; I transferred to correspondence and went to serve myself (there was an opinion then that the earlier you sit, the earlier you leave). I received a referral to one of the units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the republic, I came to the unit myself, the foreman gave everything I needed. some of them were in the exercises, went to the gym, worked with a 140 kg barbell when the guys came in in sewn, shchyogol ones. lace-up boots. We looked at the weight of the projectile. grunted, said - go and left. Later they summoned me to the head of the unit, where he simply informed me that I now represent a part in the kettlebell lifting competitions and it would be better for me to take some kind of prize. I understood everything correctly and the whole service was the champion of our garrison. It helped me a lot, I had good nutrition (in those days it mattered), I was often freed from exercises, the champion must train (honestly sleep in the gym). There was no hazing, there was a community. Most of the personnel are Kyrgyz. We were "Ukrainians". even two Tatars and a Turk - a Meskhetian, honestly doing namaz by the hour. kept together and gave a tough rebuff all at once. There were fights and non-regulations. For non-statutory actions, they removed the stripes from me twice, the first time from a sergeant to a junior, the second from a senior to a sergeant, two times they began an official investigation. the second time is very serious. they wanted to jail (the officers complained about me), the head of the unit decided everything is simple, called a friend and I was transferred to another unit, where mostly professionals served on a contract, everything was calm there, there was no one to fight with, all the men were adults. everyone is busy, everyone treated each other with respect. There he met a demobilization. Yes. I became a professional in my field, I knew everything clearly, my mother believed that I had matured. I learned to cook and in general the service was good for me. And I have always counted and count. that this time (spent in parts) I could spend with greater benefit for myself. If what the author described is now - very bad. Much depends on the officers. It is much better to engage in combat training than disassembly and non-regulation. request
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 7 November 2019 20: 46 New
      +4
      Quote: Tank Hard
      Much depends on the officers.

      "The reviews about Senior Lieutenant Daniil Pyankov, whom Shamsutdinov killed first. The officer humiliated the soldier, forced him to buy him food before going on guard, was rude and arrogant "
      https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/248333/
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard 7 November 2019 21: 03 New
        +8
        Quote: Silvestr
        "The reviews about Senior Lieutenant Daniil Pyankov, whom Shamsutdinov killed first, were unflattering. The officer humiliated the soldiers, forced them to buy him food before going on guard, was rude and arrogant."
        https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/248333/

        I will say that in our unit all the officers were aware of what was happening. there were always individuals who informed the command staff about what was happening. As a result of a conflict with some of them, official investigations were initiated in my case. In my case, it all ended with the transfer of the evil "non-regulator" (ie me) to another part. So, if necessary, the conflict can be resolved, if there was a will. The head of the unit decided everything. I remember already in another unit, when the next check from the headquarters arrived, the familiar officer, seeing me and talking with the command staff of the unit, was surprised. that I am not a hooligan and I am not fighting with anyone. To which I explained to him with a laugh. that this is not necessary here and no one gives a reason, the service was organized in such a way that all the personnel were busy with business and no one wanted to do the foolishness. So, a lot depends on the officers. request
      2. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 7 November 2019 22: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: Silvestr
        Silvestr (Sylvester)

        This summer of a suspect in the toilet was kunal, and after the guard he promised to omit it. Everything is in YouTube. So to hell with such a current army army! Let the dairyman send his daughters to combat units.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 8 November 2019 10: 47 New
          +3
          Quote: Stroporez
          This summer of a suspect in the toilet was kunal, and after the guard he promised to omit it.

          so he was lowered ... to the ground
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 8 November 2019 07: 24 New
      +1
      Hello zema! hi
      Quote: Tank Hard
      Got a referral to one of the units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs

      Shumkar or convoys?
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard 8 November 2019 07: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: Serg65
        Shumkar or convoys?

        Hi! hi
        svpch-4 OPO MVD Bishkek.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 8 November 2019 07: 50 New
          +1
          Quote: Tank Hard
          svpch-4 OPO MVD Bishkek.

          smile Well, I understand that on Kronstadt!
  • pogis
    pogis 7 November 2019 20: 38 New
    +4
    Hazing gave its first shoots in the late 60s after a decrease in service life and flourished in a wild color in the early 70s, after the veterans left the army and a sharp increase in the quality of life in the USSR. and also as a result of the last factor of reducing the influence (level) of propaganda and the formalization of military-patriotic education. As long as there is a conscript service, there will be hazing, even if the service life is reduced to 6 months. Someone heard about hazing in the police, OMON, SOBR, Emergencies Ministry, Federal Penitentiary Service, etc. structures where there is no conscription service? "Prison and the army are sisters" ie conscription service is servile with all the ensuing consequences, sometimes bloody and merciless. The level of responsibility is zero (this is how a conscript who burned a brand new BTR-82 stands before his eyes). Where is the exit? Stop conscription for 3-5 years, thereby changing the mentality of officers and military personnel under contract, thereby curing the army from a cancerous tumor of non-statutory relations. Well, yes, frenzied propaganda (like the last 5 years about Ukraine) and military-patriotic education (real) ... That is, it is possible to interrupt the vicious tradition only with the elimination of the transmitting-receiving link.
    1. Berg berg
      Berg berg 8 November 2019 00: 33 New
      0
      You do not know history well, hazing howled even in tsarist times, when they served for 25 years! So do not grind nonsense!
      1. pogis
        pogis 8 November 2019 06: 27 New
        -1
        Read my comment carefully.
        1. Berg berg
          Berg berg 27 February 2020 15: 01 New
          0
          Hazing just went from the service life, not from conscription! That's why they said, first serve with mine, and then get clever! And to whom is the commander more trusted, an old-timer or a newcomer to complete a task or equipment!? And grandfathers and young people were sent to clean floors and toilets in our company, and my grandfather directed more, but he also instructed how to do it right, since he had already done this when he was young and knows how they will take work with us!
  • infantryman2020
    infantryman2020 7 November 2019 21: 40 New
    -2
    One thing is clear - the army is seriously ill.
    The personnel management system is distorted, distorted and ineffective.
    It is not surprising that against the background of such wild lawlessness there is a massive interest in how all this (exactly) works for others. I'm talking about the famous YouTube blog about the American army (I will not specify, so as not to be considered advertising).
    Well, let’s compare: a quarter of the company - African-Americans - humiliate and harass the rest of the company, whites. Lol!
    Yes, there is also not everything perfect and its own specifics, but the system works.
    Here, in such an army would serve the one who wants to serve! But we don’t have one, but you can’t betray your homeland.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 7 November 2019 22: 15 New
    +4
    .. In varying degrees of severity, 70 people were beaten. Only one was released from the parade, to which a piece of the shutter of a broken machine gun entered his leg ....

    Dear author, I will not dispute the main content of the article, I largely agree, however, I would like more details about the "piece of the shutter of a broken machine gun". And in general, you saw the shutter of the machine gun (we are probably talking about the AK, or AKS-74), or imagine how it looks, and what is needed, and with what force to do with it so that its "piece" would enter somewhere ?! winked
  • Samum
    Samum 7 November 2019 22: 30 New
    -9
    Well, the fact that the majority of the warriors are inherently rotten people This is 100% of this and it turns out they "screwed up" the business entrusted to them, earlier for free food and at 45 now for free food and at 45 nothing has changed one word officers are left and bravado! !!!
    Scum, well, why do Russians still trust you with their children!?
  • VeteranVSSSR
    VeteranVSSSR 8 November 2019 00: 08 New
    +3
    Quote: Agieros
    I don’t know how in other parts, our guardhouse was synonymous with a week's vacation. The first time they were sent to the guardhouse, usually the soldiers were given seven days (seven days are still in service, so they started from this period) and they left after an exemplary divorce. There are no duties there, the daily routine is simpler than in the part, the food is better. Such an army option "for a week to Turkey". There were, of course, champions who had 45 days in total on their lips, but they also did not grieve.

    Oh, my friend !!!, by your conversations about the lip you know by hearsay. You were not on the lip, oh was not !!!
    The garrison `` lip '' of the Order of Lenin of the Moscow Military District (Moscow Military District), in everyday life, the `` Alesha barracks '', it is next to Lfortovo, if there were readers there, then share your impressions ...
    Personally, for a year and a half, 37 days, of which 10 days from the commandant of Moscow, General / Lieutenant Serykh + 7 days of DP, but this is nonsense, since all these days were already being a sergeant in the last period, that is, `` grandfather '' and we were guarded by the third Ukrainian (the guard battalion of the commandant of the city of Moscow - only (practically) Ukrainians) .And the grandfather, grandfather, sees from afar, after all, they served in one ,, box '' ...
    This is what I’m talking about, and, my friend, they sent us on the lip to the glorious town of Balash Ishu to VVshniks and here’s the daily routine for how long I’ll live:
    -5/00 we rise, until 6/30 we stand at attention
    -6 / 30-7 / 00 morning toilet, appliance
    -7 / 00-7 / 03 breakfast (with heat)
    -7 / 05_8 / 00 drill
    -8 / 00-10 / 00 fizuha
    -10/00 -11/00 drill
    -11 / 00-13 / 00fizuha
    -13/15 -13/30 lunch (there is no hotter)
    -14 / 00-16 / 00 drill
    -16 / 00-17 / 00 fizuha
    -17 / 00-19 / 00 drill
    -19 / 30-19 / 35 dinner
    -20 / 00-21 / 30 at attention
    -22/00 hang up.
    1. Agieros
      8 November 2019 11: 36 New
      +1
      Of course, by hearsay, our opinion was based on the reviews there. I do not know the routine, nor the occupation.
  • bessonov932
    bessonov932 8 November 2019 00: 24 New
    +1
    Barracks hooliganism, the nonsense of individuals, the harsh principles of forming a male team - this is not hazing! Hazing is a system. What, someone does not know how the "spirit" differs from the "scoop"? Or a test: a spirit, a young man, a scooper, a grandfather, a demobilizer - whom could an officer hit, and whom did he not touch with his finger?
  • Berg berg
    Berg berg 8 November 2019 00: 29 New
    +5
    Maybe you need to do military service for one month and then hazing will disappear! What is the fault of the Russian officer? Let's invite an American! So seniority has always been and always will be. A unit is one close-knit unit, and if everyone suffers because of the one who refuses to obey orders, then they will naturally take charge of it. You see, religion does not allow one to wash the floors, and who will do it for him? Who in the army washes toilets, who works out the lift command - hang up! And because of one, everyone suffers, how to teach such a person if he does not want to carry out the order? What to call his mom, dad? He doesn’t want to carry out the order, even if he doesn’t get out of his mouth until the end of the service. Who the commander should lean on, who has served and has at least some experience, or the young one who cannot and does not want anything, but everyone suffers!
  • Radikal
    Radikal 8 November 2019 01: 47 New
    +2
    Quote: Radikal
    .. In varying degrees of severity, 70 people were beaten. Only one was released from the parade, to which a piece of the shutter of a broken machine gun entered his leg ....

    Dear author, I will not dispute the main content of the article, I largely agree, however, I would like more details about the "piece of the shutter of a broken machine gun". And in general, you saw the shutter of the machine gun (we are probably talking about the AK, or AKS-74), or imagine how it looks, and what is needed, and with what force to do with it so that its "piece" would enter somewhere ?! winked

    Judging by the minus - I did not see the shutter! wassat
  • d.olegov44
    d.olegov44 8 November 2019 02: 40 New
    0
    In fact, everything is much worse than the author described. And not only in the army. A nightmare both in the Ministry of Internal Affairs and in the Ministry of Emergencies (from where is our Minister of Defense, by the way. What is the case with Igor Ivanovich Kobzev?



    The main personnel officer of the Ministry of Emergencies, who first became a colonel, and then a lieutenant general in this way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL-OHOm-IFU

    For such services, Putin subsequently made him Deputy Minister of the Russian Federation for Civil Defense, Emergencies and Disaster Management - the chief state fire inspector of the Russian Federation.

    https://ria.ru/20191104/1560567243.html


  • Clueless
    Clueless 8 November 2019 05: 10 New
    +3
    There is no place without hazing, for driving a bunch of men into one room, most of whom have hormones and don’t want clothes to go .. It’s logical that the crowd will always find someone who will do it for them.
    Moreover, all hazing in our country sometimes comes just from sergeants - they must fight it, but usually they lead it. For officers, the main thing is that there are no flights.
  • Gennady Bogdanov
    Gennady Bogdanov 8 November 2019 05: 59 New
    +3
    I don’t know, maybe we had another hazing? But I am for this! The barracks and point were torn both night and day, they sang songs until the grandfathers did not like, etc. etc. But there was never bullying, suction for soldering! After auto quarantine, I ended up in an excellent division, and on the nose there was a check from the division, so the young warrior should be ready. Once I clashed with an old man from a neighboring unit (we fought on belts) our grandfathers came running, they broke him, scolded me. Well, there were some slaps, jokes and that’s it! If you don’t squint, if the unit doesn’t press because of you, then no one has bothered you too much. True, he served for a long time (1974-1976), Strategic Rocket Forces, 382 Guards Rocket Regiment, driver-mechanic of multi-axle vehicles.
  • edelweiss968
    edelweiss968 8 November 2019 09: 53 New
    0
    the army is part of society, just like soldiers are part of the country's population. if the country does not live according to the law, but according to the concepts, what is the conversation about? should everyone fulfill their duties, in any position, if this does not happen - why does he get his salary? fraternity is the first step to the emergence of a showdown in the army on ethnic grounds, those who do not fight this take a step towards the collapse of the state. one country was destroyed, but now they want another, but where is the work of those responsible? but not her! in order for hazing to disappear, it is necessary to change the very conditions in society, society will change and the army will change.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 8 November 2019 18: 17 New
      -5
      That's right, there is no order in the country, and there will be no army.
  • tasha
    tasha 8 November 2019 10: 14 New
    +3
    "And a car came from the rear, and a dirty, silent sailor, who had been told in his head for ten years that he would defend his Motherland in the service, loaded all this shit, turned over the oozing and ch.mo. calories, tamping." A. Pokrovsky "72 meters".
    It is interesting what the American intelligence officers wrote in the declassified memorandum "Problems of Morality and Discipline in the Armed Forces of the USSR" dated April 1977. In their opinion, among other chronic problems of the Soviet Army were including:

    -ethnic relationships;
    The dispersion policy of ethnic minorities in the armed forces is partly designed to promote a Soviet national identity that surpasses ethnic loyalty. Dispersion excludes ethnically homogeneous units, which in times of crisis may be more loyal to their ethnic compatriots than to the central government. The relative lack of education of some ethnic minorities does not allow them to be admitted to certain specialties and, therefore, excludes the filling of related posts by people of the same ethnic origin. The Soviet military has no alternative to ethnic integration, despite the side effect of increased ethnic hatred. Soldiers from the Muslim minorities of Central Asia and the Caucasus are the main targets of ethnic tension due to the racism of other soldiers, the lack of the necessary education, the inability to speak Russian and a different way of life.
    Allowing Jews and Germans to emigrate from the USSR led to discrimination against these nationalities, limited their ability to enter military schools because of fears of violating the secrecy regime.

    - disobedience of conscripts to junior officers and sergeants;
    The journal “Communist of the Armed Forces” (No. 5, March 1976): “It is known that some officers are not always
    succeed in maintaining the proper soldier order and organization in their units. Most often this happens because, demanding the exact implementation of the rules or instructions from subordinates, they themselves do not set an example. " Young Soviet officers strive to maintain informal contact with ordinary soldiers, because most Soviet sergeants are conscripts who serve
    all 2 years, their inexperience forces junior officers to provide direct control. As a result, there is no separation between officers and privates, and a violation of subordination may be left without punishment.
    In some specialized units, commanders weaken disciplinary responsibility
    due to inadequate support from the authorities or due to dependence on the activities of subordinates, the need to implement the plan. The Soviet press generally pays little attention to discipline in military-construction units.
    hazing;
    The Soviet command admits that the arrival of inexperienced conscripts in the army creates opportunities for abuse by senior conscripts. Old-timers of all ranks intimidate new recruits and force them to perform tedious work in their place. The Soviet system of education can encourage such abuses. Major General D. Volkogonov wrote in the magazine “Soviet Warrior” (No. 12, June 1976) that relations between military personnel, as a rule, depend on informal leaders who go beyond military ranks. Sometimes it happens that a “leader” in a detachment or crew can be a person with negative characteristics that do not contribute to the establishment of a healthy moral atmosphere.

    Please forgive the clumsiness of the translation. I don’t want to be honest ...
    And the conclusions? Draw your own conclusions ...
  • Nestorych
    Nestorych 8 November 2019 10: 44 New
    0
    laughing Nothing changed...
  • kit88
    kit88 8 November 2019 12: 04 New
    +5
    About the broken shutter I will not write. Everything is already written.
    Yes. It turns out that the body of the Urals is not equipped with safety belts - you can not carry fighters.
    Hazing, you say. And grandfathers from Mars to the Army? Your friend was outside the shower room (!) / We didn’t have water in the company for a year and the batteries didn’t get warm from the word at all / no one, nobody helped him in the shower. And who should have helped him, if not you yourself? What an approach, that someone should do everything for you. A hundred men gathered in one place - naturally, someone will start to bull; Do you need a nanny to watch everyone?
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 8 November 2019 17: 51 New
      0
      If we consider the absence of water and heat correct, then we can ask: is there no water and hot at home and are the batteries cold too? Maybe enough about heroic nonsense and overcoming difficulties? Normal living conditions are the simplest. And colds after the army - this is for real men ?? Are you out of your mind? The difficulties must be of a different kind. Pass a standard for a good grade.
      I’m telling everyone that we have had hepatitis for 2 weeks with almost no medication - no one believes. And in the summer of 86th, 600 people fell ill. from almost 2 thousand. Yes, and then enough. How many have already been buried with cirrhosis? Be proud of it?
      1. kit88
        kit88 8 November 2019 18: 20 New
        +6
        Maybe enough about heroic nonsense and overcoming difficulties?

        And for what reason is "enough"? It was so. It is a fact. Why can't you voice the fact?
        Nobody is suggesting disconnecting batteries now. It is proposed to look at their problems through the experience of older comrades. When there were no washing machines, showers and cell phones. Now you can dial the number, call "mom" and the next day there will be a bunch of inspectors in the unit, headed by the committee of soldiers' mothers. And then the only argument against uninvited guests breaking into the arrangement was a stool flying towards them.
        I am not saying that serving is easy now. And my grandfather would probably laugh at my difficulties, and his grandfather, in turn, at his difficulties. But everyone would agree that military service at all times is certainly not a walk with a beauty along the boulevard.
        1. mmaxx
          mmaxx 9 November 2019 13: 10 New
          -2
          Because to tell how someone heroically lived in a cold barracks, washing a form with cold water can be endlessly and with pleasure. Only such living conditions of the army is a crime on the part of the command. One should not be proud of this, but be indignant. All these charms were enough for me in one way or another. I see no reason to brag. I was familiar with sore joints at 22 years old after such charms. Why is the country such garbage? They pulled a man out of life, in the army he was engaged in all kinds of crap that no one needed at all, and even lost his health. There is no war around.
          But if a person complied with, for example, the standard for installing an extended mine clearance charge at least 4 in winter, you can be proud of this on bare ground without snow. How many times does this damn charge need to be dragged on the belly, assembled, disassembled, dragged? What other difficulties are needed here? This is not a sport. Why would he heroically lose health in the cold barracks after that? A set of forms, by the way, is one. After such feats, it must be washed, dried, stroked. Or walk like a bichara. Oh yes! According to the charter, a bathhouse in our area was once every 10 days. But we will be proud to have overcome the CRIMINAL inaction of senior management. Which doesn’t care what the army does, eating up people's money.
  • BAI
    BAI 8 November 2019 15: 21 New
    0
    Firstly, I was unpleasantly struck by the similarity of military units (during my service I visited three) with the prison and its concepts

    But with this, everything is extremely simple. Hazing in the Soviet army began when criminals began to be called up for war. The father in the mortar platoon had a ratio of 50 to 50. Prior to the arrival of the felons, there was no hazing; when it arrived, it started right away. And this is the war! In 1943.
  • Doliva63
    Doliva63 8 November 2019 20: 15 New
    +2
    Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
    Yes, I know such opinions. But I can’t redo it. It seems that the army went through with dignity, and I remember it now with some longing. Even the foreman with whom I did not work out (they fought several times, and this is the ensign ... and I am an ordinary soldier) does not cause me to be rejected.

    I served an urgent, foreman always digging up to me - I’m not standing, not going. Well, something personal, probably). Time passes, a new foreman is being transferred to my company. Mine Gott, this is the same scary! Others would freeze on it, and I just brought up (in the process of push-ups). It is necessary to be more attentive to people.
    1. edelweiss968
      edelweiss968 8 November 2019 21: 02 New
      +3
      served in different parts, and where hazing was and where fraternity was present. it all depends on the immediate commanders. for in one case they fight, in another they shift their responsibilities to others. how to fight? an order is given, which by concepts is not feasible, and an explanatory note is taken, which is attached to the rapport about the refusal to fulfill the order. the rapport is sighted by the senior commander or chief and the offender appears before the eyes of the military prosecutor. receiving an official prosecutorial warning to begin with. 2 warnings for six months and the fighter changes the usual part to the disciplinary one. it was. at the beginning of each training period, all potential violators were taken to the nearest area, where local staff told and showed what awaited them in the future, if nothing was changed. those who did not understand were driving a diesel engine. upon returning from the disbath, in the presence of the entire unit, they talked about their life in the disbath. but it’s faster and more efficient to make something heavy and dumb, but not all fighters, and this is the problem of the whole society, because alone you can’t change the whole world, and a society consisting of high-moral cowards will be crushed
  • Egor-dis
    Egor-dis 8 November 2019 22: 59 New
    +2
    He served himself a soldier, served, realized that he liked to command, and signed a contract for two years. He is no longer a grandfather, we do not have such a term, he is now a contract sergeant. What do you think a person wants to sign a contract in the environment described above?

    Interestingly, who prevented the author from concluding the same contract, if only in order to reduce the number of "wrong" sergeants? But this is not even the main question. And the main question is - after what period of time would the author, being the squad leader, understand that the list of punishments set out in the disciplinary charter is insufficient and ineffective in modern conditions, and that without the hazing / hazing system he would not be able to do anything? The author is probably not aware that the sergeant is responsible for his personnel, starting from how the duffel bag is equipped and ending with so that the personnel do not drink and do not fuck in the service and outside it, and then get drunk, or stoned, did not join into forced intimate contacts with the local population, agricultural and domestic animals. Because the sergeant will always be responsible for such actions. Therefore, yes, the sergeant is screwing and will be screwing the privates. Or he will cease to be a sergeant.
    1. Agieros
      9 November 2019 00: 18 New
      0
      Can't win - lead? I didn’t want to be there for a year, but to stay for two is already too much. In the first three months, the author learned that there is not only a Disciplinary Statute, there are charters, Internal Service, Commandant’s and so on. The collection of charters begins precisely with the Charter of the Internal Service, which defines even in the initial articles, if I am not mistaken, 36 and 42, what is the One-Man Command and what is the Order. What relations can be between a boss and a subordinate, and what orders can be given in peacetime and wartime. Punishment does not require a disciplinary charter, there is prevention, the Charter of the Military Service. It’s just that drill training is carried out, which according to this charter is not only and not so much walking on the parade ground, but also landing in vehicles and unloading from them, working out the movements of soldiers in battle, and many other goodies. In my memory, it was so possible to destroy any soldier, in fact, in the isolated cases I have described above of taming guests from the Caucasus, the officers chose this method. Pretty effective. But you need to know what soldiers should do and how. But the sergeants do not know. Do I know that sergeants are liable? Oh sure. Which also did not prevent us from collecting money from us for chevrons, insignia, hemming, and so on, since in part of all this was not and should be. Thank God, at least they didn’t take it for cleaning equipment. We also paid one sergeant the cost of the player he lost. And one tried to collect on a broken phone. The staff could not plump. And it was difficult to get stuck. It was not possible to enter into forced sex with the local population, but did not want to be with each other. You can not say about sergeants. They had snus. Three boasted in front of the company that they had lowered their entire monthly salary in a sauna in one night (and then they begged the soldiers for a month to buy something in the teapot). Two competed who is stronger and somehow more intricate will be able to gouge a company (well, for example, the first gives a command to a fire, after the second starts to play 5 / 45, five times lift-hang for 45 seconds, but then they stopped, one guy lost consciousness on the third round). There is a line between keeping privates in check and actions punishable by law and the Criminal Code.
      1. Egor-dis
        Egor-dis 9 November 2019 20: 35 New
        +2
        Quote: Agieros
        Can't win - lead? I didn’t want to be there for a year, but to stay for two is already too much.
        This is the point. The "smart" ones do not want to be and do not want to drag sergeant duties, they prefer to simply rewind their year and leave, and then, in civilian life, complain about the "bad sergeants." Accordingly, contract sergeants become not so much those who are worthy as those who agree.
        Quote: Agieros
        Punishment does not require a disciplinary charter, there is prevention, the Charter of the Military Service. It’s just that drill training is carried out, which according to this charter is not only and not so much walking on the parade ground, but also landing in vehicles and unloading from them, working out the movements of soldiers in battle, and many other goodies. In my memory, it was so possible to smash any soldier ...
        In the end, in the end, we still returned to hazing, which, as mentioned above, also refers to hazing. At the expense of "breaking any soldier" - relatively sane - it is possible. Have you ever tried to practice drill with stoned junkies, bruises, idiots (as well as smoky idiots), mentally retarded? Ah, ... well, yes, this is too much for you, let the "bad sergeants" do this, and we will criticize from the outside. wink
        1. Agieros
          10 November 2019 20: 38 New
          +2
          If you re-read my article, then the conclusion about those who remain agree and there is. And about the statutory. If you stupidly drag a company before dinner, walk on the parade ground until you turn blue (because you don’t know other combat techniques) - this is statism. If a summary is prepared specifically for the drill plan and is carried out by a person who can even alternate with boxes, ceremonial aisles, song aisles, not for any miscalculation, but in advance, according to a lesson plan, so that the soldiers do not have the impression of punishment for anything, and then just because of fatigue there was no desire to squint and conflict - this already looks like some kind of science.
          Have you ever tried drill training with stoned pimples, bruises, idiots (as well as smoky idiots), mentally retarded?
          I tried to admit it. They gave orders. At the expense of "smart". If you think that I didn’t say this to sergeants and officers in the service, but I speak only here, your choice. I told them. If you think that everything is fine, it should be so and my words are a whim - well, send your children there. My whole call went away with injuries of the back, neck and joints, specifically, I have acquired osteochondrosis of the lumbar spine and problems with the left knee. I think this is too high a price for the self-affirmation of individual "bad sergeants" At the moment, I have dissuaded three people from the service. Hopefully I'll dissuade more.
          1. Egor-dis
            Egor-dis 11 November 2019 20: 31 New
            +1
            Quote: Agieros
            conclusion about those who agree and so there are.
            If you re-read my comments, you will see that I point to the reason for this conclusion, and not to the conclusion itself.
            Quote: Agieros
            ... and then simply because of fatigue there was no desire to squint and conflict - this already looks like some kind of science.
            which are all smart around until they become sergeants wink
            Quote: Agieros
            Tried to confess. They gave orders.
            If they gave orders, then it was not you who worked with them, but they with you.
            Quote: Agieros
            My whole call went with injuries to the back, neck and joints, specifically I have acquired osteochondrosis of the lumbar spine and problems with the left knee.
            In secret. All this bouquet with the same success is acquired by a civilian. And osteochondrosis - generally from the school bench.
            Quote: Agieros
            At the moment, I dissuaded three people from the service.
            those. three potential "good" sergeants, who will now be replaced by potentially "bad" sergeants.
  • lopvlad
    lopvlad 8 November 2019 23: 53 New
    +1
    in a capitalist state, a state without a state ideology, the army should be exclusively contractual and not drive young people there. In the best case, it will lose a year of life (now this year is not taken into account anywhere and does not go into retirement experience) and in the worst it will come with broken organs and become disabled in the beginning of his life. And the disabled, as you know, are nowhere and useless to anyone.
    I am especially amazed by the expression "the army will make a man out of a boy." Being in a closed community (boarding school, prison, army) only sharpens character traits, the one who was a good person will become even better and the one who was bad will become even worse.