Recent major victories of Denikin

Smoot. 1919 year. On 20 of September 1919 of the year Denikin’s army took Kursk, on October 1 - Voronezh, on October 13 - Orel. This was the peak of the success of the White Army. The entire Denikin front passed along the lower Volga from Astrakhan to Tsaritsyn and further along the line Voronezh - Oryol - Chernigov - Kiev - Odessa. The White Guards controlled a huge territory - up to 16-18 provinces with a population of 42 million people.


Recent major victories of Denikin

General A.P. Kutepov in the form of the Drozdov riflemen and captain of the Markov Infantry Regiment. 1919. Watercolor P.V. Robike


Offensive development


After the unsuccessful August counterattack of the Red Southern Front and the defeat of the strike group Selivyachev, Denikin’s army developed an offensive in the Moscow direction. The 1th army corps of Kutepov, having defeated a large group of Reds, on September 7 (20) on September 1919 took Kursk. Fierce fighting went on in the Voronezh direction. The Kuban corps of Shkuro, with the support of the remaining Cossacks in the Mamontov corps and the left wing of the Don army, suddenly crossed the Don in the vicinity of the Liski station. The fierce battle lasted three days. Both sides suffered heavy losses. However, the White Guards broke through the red front. Units of the 8 Red Army were driven east. The troops of Shkuro on 1 on October 1919 attacked and captured Voronezh. On the whole front, whites captured thousands of prisoners and huge trophies.

Kutepov’s corps continued to develop an offensive in the Oryol direction. After the capture of Kursk due to the influx of volunteers, new units were formed. On 24 of September 1919 the White Guards took Fatezh and Rylsk, on October 11 - Kromy, on October 13 - Oryol and Livny. Advanced white intelligence was on the outskirts of Tula. On the right flank, the Kuban Cossacks of Shkuro from Voronezh broke into Usman. On the left flank of the 5th cavalry corps of General Yuzefovich took Chernigov and Novgorod-Seversky.

Meanwhile, a threat arose on the left flank of the Volunteer Army. The southern group of the 12 Red Army under the command of Yakir (two rifle divisions and Kotovsky’s cavalry brigade), cut off from their own after the capture of Odessa by whites, began to break through the Right-Bank of Little Russia to the north, to their own. These territories were occupied by Petliurists, but they did not want to fight with a powerful group of Reds, so they turned a blind eye to its advancement. In response, the Reds did not touch the Petliurists. As a result, a group of Yakir left behind Denikin. On the night of October 1 of 1919, the Reds suddenly appeared for whites near Kiev, shot down the enemy’s weak barriers and burst into the southern capital of Russia-Russia. Parts of General Bredov retreated to the left bank of the Dnieper, but were able to retain the bridges and heights of the Pechersky Monastery. Recovering from an unexpected blow and regrouping forces, Denikinites counterattacked. Stubborn battles continued for three days, and volunteers returned Kiev to their control by October 5. The southern group of Yakir retreated beyond the river. Irpin, united with the main forces of the 12 Army and won Zhytomyr from the Petliurites. Thus, the 12-I Red Army regained its integrity and located on both banks of the Dnieper north of Kiev, dividing into the Right-Bank and Left-Bank groups of troops.

Volunteers also repelled a counterattack of the Reds and won on the right flank. In October, the 10-I red army of Klyuev, replenished at the expense of parts of the Eastern Front, launched a second attack on Tsaritsyn. The Wrangel’s Caucasian army, weakened by the diversion of part of its forces to Astrakhan and Dagestan (a powerful uprising against whites developed there), could resist. The 2th Kuban Corps of Ulagai stopped the enemy, then after the 9-day battles Denikins counterattacked. At the forefront of the attack were officer regiments - Kuban, Ossetian, Kabardian. The red troops again threw back from the city.

At the same time, the Don Army of Sidorin went on the offensive. Under the guise of a militia of old people and youth, which held a fort for a fortnight on the right bank of the Don, the personnel Cossack divisions were able to rest and replenish the ranks. 3 Corps The Don Corps forced the Don in the Pavlovsk region, defeated the 56th Rifle Division of the Reds and began to move east. The Soviet command threw reserves and stopped the breakthrough. However, in the area of ​​Kletskaya another group of White Cossacks crossed the river - the 1 and 2 Donskoy corps. The 2th Don Corps under the command of General Konovalov was the main striking force of the army, the best horse units were concentrated in it. Konovalov’s corps broke through the enemy’s defenses, connected with the 3 m Don corps, with the joint efforts of the White Cossacks defeated two red rifle divisions. The 9-I Red Army of the Southeast Front began to retreat.

The southeastern front was formed on 30 on September 1919 in order to defeat the enemy in the Novocherkassk and Tsaritsyno directions and occupy the Don region. The front included: 9 and 10 Army, from mid-October - 11 Army. The front commander is Vasily Shorin. The command of the Southeast Front tried to stop the enemy’s breakthrough at the turn of the river. Hopra, but it failed. The Don army was reinforced by reinforcements — hundreds, militia units holding defenses along the Don. They were now transported to the right bank of the river and replenished regular units. The Red Army was pushed north. Belokazaki again completely occupied the Don Army Area. Cossacks took Novokhopyorsk, Uryupinskaya, Povorino and Borisoglebsk.


Team tank "General Drozdovskiy". September 1919

At the peak of success


This was the pinnacle of success for the White Army. In the main direction, volunteers occupied the line Novgorod-Seversky - Dmitrovsk - Orel - Novosil - south of Yelets - Don. The entire Denikin front passed along the lower Volga from Astrakhan to Tsaritsyn and further along the line Voronezh - Oryol - Chernigov - Kiev - Odessa. The White Guards controlled a huge territory - up to 16-18 provinces with a population of 42 million people.

The situation of Soviet Russia at that moment was extremely difficult. The Soviet government had to mobilize all forces and means to repulse the blow of Denikin’s army. “Economic Life,” the organ of the Supreme Council of the National Economy, wrote in the fall of 1919:
“No matter how difficult it is, at the present time it is necessary to abandon further advancement in Siberia, and all forces and means must be mobilized in order to protect the very existence of the Soviet Republic from the Denikin army ..."


However, the rear of the army of Denikin was unsatisfactory. The Denikin administration established in the rear was weak and unprofessional. The best people were either at the forefront or already dead. Behind the rear was a huge number of opportunists, careerists, adventurers, speculators, all kinds of businessmen, "fishing in troubled waters", various evil spirits that the Russian unrest raised from the bottom. This has led to many problems, abuse, fraud, and speculation. Crime walked with might and main, the great criminal revolution continued. The peasant war continued, gangs and chieftains walked around the provinces.

At the same time, the “democracy” introduced by the Provisional Government continued. During the war, political freedoms acted. A variety of presses came out almost without restrictions, city self-government bodies were elected, political parties, including Socialist-Revolutionaries and Social Democrats, acted as hard as they could to harm the White Guards. It is clear that all this did not strengthen the position of the All-Union Socialist Union.


Lieutenant-General N.E. Bredov tastes food from the cauldron of the regimental field kitchen of the infantry-artillery sample of the troops of the Kiev military region of the VSYUR. Kiev, September 1919 of the year. Source: https://ru.wikipedia.org/

War in the North Caucasus


The situation in Denikin’s army was also worsened by the ongoing war in the North Caucasus. Here the White Guards had to keep another front. In the summer of 1919, Dagestan revolted. Imam Uzun-Haji declared a holy war against the infidels and in September his fighters began to push the white troops of the North Caucasus under the command of General Kolesnikov. The White Guards retreated to Grozny. The imam of 19 of September created the North Caucasus Emirate - an Islamic state (Sharia monarchy) that existed in the mountains of Dagestan and Chechnya, part of Ingushetia. His forces amounted to 60 thousand fighters.

The uprising was actively supported by the governments of Azerbaijan and Georgia, fearing the victory of the White movement and Turkey. Although Turkey was engulfed in its own civil war between the Kemalists and the Ottomans, it did not abandon plans to capture the Caucasus. From Turkey through Georgia, caravans traveled with weapons, military instructors arrived. The commander of the Turkish troops in Dagestan, Nuri Pasha (the former commander of the Caucasian Islamic Army), was constantly in touch with Uzun-Haji. The command of the Uzun-Haji army included officers of the Turkish General Staff, including Hussein Debreli and Ali-Riza Corumlu (the first was the head of the cavalry, the second - artillery). In September 1919, Georgia sent an expeditionary force led by General Kereselidze to assist the emirate’s troops. The Georgians planned to form a corps, and then an entire army. But Kereselidze did not reach the village of Vedeno, the capital of the imam. He was defeated and robbed by the Highlanders, who did not recognize any power. Kereselidze returned to Georgia.

Also, the Reds were part of the army of the North Caucasus Emirate. Gikalo led the remnants of the defeated 11 Red Army - in 1918, he led the defense of the red Grozny. The red regiment of Gikalo became part of the Uzun Khadzhi army and held positions near the village of Vozdvizhenka, covering the Vladikavkaz direction. Gikalo's troops received instructions from both Vedeno and Astrakhan, with which they maintained contact through couriers. As a result, the Reds fought with the Islamists against the Whites.

As a result, there was a stalemate in the North Caucasus. The rebel army had an overwhelming numerical superiority over the White Guards, but was significantly inferior to the enemy in combat effectiveness. The untrained and undisciplined mountaineers could not resist the regular troops, but they knew the area well, and riding mountain trails and gorges were invincible. The weapons of the mountaineers were in bulk - from Turks, British, Georgians, broken Reds, but the problem was in the ammunition, they were sorely lacking. Cartridges even became the only hard currency of the North Caucasus. Small White Guards simply could not control such a huge and poorly connected territory of communications, and crush the uprising. However, it was impossible to turn a blind eye to the emirate. The troops of Uzun_Haji threatened Derbent, Petrovsk (Makhachkala), Temirkhan-Shura (Buinaksk) and Grozny. Highlanders raided the Cossack villages and lowland settlements.

In addition, independent highlanders and various bandits continued to rage. The desertion of the highlanders, who mobilized Denikin's army, intensified. They carried weapons with them, created gangs and took advantage of the absence of a male population (Cossacks) in the rear, engaged in robbery, looting, murder, violence and abduction.

The white command had to transfer units from the northern front to the south, to form a new front. In order, if not to destroy the enemy, then at least block him. Significant forces of the Terek Cossack army under the command of Ataman Vdovenko, who remained to defend his villages, were switched off from the war with the Reds in the main direction. So that the war does not take on the character of the massacre between the Tertsy and the Highlanders, the Kuban and volunteer units were transferred here. It is clear that this also affected the position of Denikin’s army in the Moscow direction. First of all, of course, the situation in the North Caucasus affected the Wrangel army, the rear of which was threatened by an uprising in Dagestan and received reinforcements from the Kuban, Terek and mountain peoples.


Uzun Haji hosts a parade of troops

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1919 year

How the British created the Armed Forces of the South of Russia
How to restore Soviet power in Ukraine
How Petliurists led Little Russia to a complete catastrophe
How defeated Petliurism
Give the boundaries of 1772 of the year!
Battle for the North Caucasus. How to suppress the Terek Uprising
Battle for the North Caucasus. CH 2. December battle
Battle for the North Caucasus. CH 3. The January accident of the 11 Army
Battle for the North Caucasus. CH 4. How the 11 army died
Battle for the North Caucasus. CH 5. Capture of Kizlyar and the Terrible
Battle for the North Caucasus. CH 6. Furious assault of Vladikavkaz
How Georgia tried to seize Sochi
How the Whites crushed the Georgian invaders
The war of February and October as a confrontation between two civilization projects
How did the "Flight to the Volga"
How Kolchak's army broke through to the Volga
Catastrophe of the Don Cossacks
Verkhniyon uprising
How "Great Finland" planned to seize Petrograd
"All to fight with Kolchak!"
Frunze. Red Napoleon
The missed opportunities of the army of Kolchak
May offensive of the Northern Corps
How white broke through to Petrograd
Battle for the South of Russia
Strategic change on the southern front. Manych operation
Crimea on fire Russian distemper
Crimea in 1918-1919. Intervents, local authorities and whites
How did the uprising of ataman Grigoriev
Nikifor Grigoriev, "ataman of the rebel forces of Kherson region, Zaporizhia and Tavria"
Odessa operation ataman Grigoriev
Uprising in the Ukraine. How failed the “Blitzkrieg” of Grigorievka
Ufa operation. How were defeated the best parts of the army of Kolchak
Moscow campaign army Denikin
"All to fight with Denikin!"
Battle of the Urals
The defeat of the Siberian army. How the Red Army liberated Perm and Yekaterinburg
The defeat of Kolchak in the Chelyabinsk battle
August Counterattack of the Southern Front
The battle for Siberia. Recent operations Kolchak
Pyrrhic victory of the Kolchak armies on Tobol
Operation "White Sword". Beat at the heart of the revolution
"Do not give up Petrograd!"
General battle for Russia
Avalov Army Campaign in Riga
The defeat of the Kolchak armies in the second battle on Tobol
Victories of Denikin’s army in New Russia and Little Russia
White Movement Top
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  1. serg.shishkov2015 7 November 2019 06: 06 New
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    Today is the day that divided the history of Russia into BEFORE AND AFTER, And the debate about this day will not end until the last of us leave, We remember who our ancestors were until 1917, the ruling class or descendants of serfs, and while we are alive, we will continue to be divided into white and red, each of us has our own truth,
    1. Lieutenant Teterin 7 November 2019 10: 07 New
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      If we focus on the origin, then the father of General Denikin was a serf. This is the question of social elevators in the Republic of Ingushetia.
      1. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 12: 17 New
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        Lieutenant Teterin
        If we focus on the origin, then the father of General Denikin was a serf.
        However, this did not prevent his son from fighting to make the peasants serfs again. There are no worse tyrants than yesterday's slaves. (Plato)
        This is the question of social elevators in the Republic of Ingushetia.
        In tsarist Russia such upstarts could be counted on the fingers, but in the USSR, social elevators became available to absolutely everyone!
        1. Lieutenant Teterin 7 November 2019 21: 44 New
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          Nonsense is complete. The White movement never aimed to challenge the Manifesto of Emperor Alexander II of February 19, 1861.
          In Imperial Russia, there were literally thousands of people like Denikin. In another branch, I cited a study of the social composition of the officer corps of the Empire, by 1912 the nobles were already in the minority there.
        2. not main 7 November 2019 23: 43 New
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          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          Alexander Suvorov (Alexander Suvorov) Today, 12:17 New

          +8
          Lieutenant Teterin
          If we focus on the origin, then the father of General Denikin was a serf.
          However, this did not prevent his son from fighting to make the peasants serfs again.

          This is what a fright? And where did you find the idea of ​​serfdom?
      2. icant007 7 November 2019 12: 32 New
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        The Russian Empire began to socially "lift" in the first world war. There were not enough officers, they were made from men.
        And if you look at other eras. By the end of the Northern War of 1721, about 20 percent of the officer posts in the Russian army were occupied by immigrants from the non-noble environment.
        Under Peter I, there was apparently the only time in the history of pre-revolutionary Russia when abilities were not valued.
    2. antivirus 7 November 2019 11: 13 New
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      Behind the rear, the Denikin administration was weak, unprofessional. The best people were either at the forefront or already dead. Behind the rear was a huge number of opportunists, careerists, adventurers, speculators, all kinds of businessmen, "fishing in troubled waters", various evil spirits that the Russian unrest raised from the bottom

      - THERE HAS BEEN DETERMINED BY THE "SOCIAL BASIS" OF THE FORMER STATE-- - DIDN'T LACK THE DEDICATED PEOPLE FOR DIFFICULT TIME (including crisis managers).
      Comedians and Soviets defeated the noble assembly before the end of the War Grad
    3. bandabas 7 November 2019 14: 58 New
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      And normal people have never shared Russia. And, here, collect, collected. Your untruth, Mr. Shishkov, a descendant ..... it is unknown what.
      1. serg.shishkov2015 9 November 2019 12: 50 New
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        I myself will not call anyone lord and I ask you not to call so
  2. Basil50 7 November 2019 06: 47 New
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    HAPPY ALL YOU Dear FRIENDS!
    Denikin was replaced by Wrangel since neither sponsors nor officers forgave preferences for Poles and finals. And the remarks addressed to the Romanovs were also recalled.
    It’s interesting that dictators and those in * supreme .. * crawled through everything like that with non-Russian surnames and roots.
    The Vaughn and the Romanovs were proud of the calibration with the imported militizer * royal houses *, and, accordingly, those around and loyal subjects tried hard to calibrate with the import nobility, among which it was the rule to buy titles, or even win cards.
    1. Olgovich 7 November 2019 07: 38 New
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      Quote: Vasily50
      HAPPY ALL YOU Dear FRIENDS!


      And you with a holiday memory of the Monk Matrona (Vlasova) (November 7, 2019) hi

      Quote: Vasily50
      It’s interesting that dictators and those in * supreme .. * crawled through everything like that with non-Russian surnames and roots.

      Yeah, the Bronstein, Movshevich, Apfelbaum, Zalkind, etc. red leaders can’t be called non-Russian ..... wink yes
      Quote: Vasily50
      Vaughn and Romanovs were proud calibration with imported miliperserious * royal houses *, well, respectively, the surrounding and loyal subjects tried hard to calibrate

      What kind primordially Russian words ..... Still translation ..... request lol
      1. bober1982 7 November 2019 07: 58 New
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        Quote: Olgovich
        Still a translation ...

        see translation from English, translated as ........ very tiny, tiny
      2. Looking for 7 November 2019 15: 54 New
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        PERSONALLY YOU. Bulkohrust-liberalst. I congratulate you on the occasion of GREAT OCTOBER !!!!!
      3. Nikolai Korovin 7 November 2019 22: 59 New
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        Well ... Eta, mean ... Lenin - well, yes, that Jew. But Trotsky is ours, a fighting one !!! The son of the Tambov Governor, who went against his class. In-of.
    2. bober1982 7 November 2019 07: 39 New
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      Quote: Vasily50
      were proud calibration with imported millipeser * royal houses *

      Quote: Vasily50
      tried to go round with import nobility

      This is already from the field of gardening.
    3. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 09: 05 New
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      Vasily50 (Dmitry) Today, 06:47
      HAPPY ALL YOU Dear FRIENDS!
      I join everyone with the holiday! Happy Great October Socialist Revolution! Thank God that there were people who threw all this white trash into the backyard. It is a pity that Comrade Stalin did not live long and buried not all of these disadvantages. With the coming to power of Khrushchev, they all together began to climb into the party’s structures, which ultimately led to the collapse of my great USSR. And now they rule the ball, but everything flows, everything changes, we lost the battle in 1991, but it’s far from the fact that we lost the war. So, let’s see who will take it, gentlemen of the baker’s crunch, so you rejoice early.

      P.S. I have such a double holiday, today is my birthday!
      1. Basil50 7 November 2019 17: 16 New
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        Happy Birthday. I wish you health and fulfillment of desires.
        1. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 21: 38 New
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          Thanks Dmitry!
      2. parusnik 7 November 2019 19: 26 New
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        Although late, I join in the congratulations hi
  3. Olgovich 7 November 2019 07: 20 New
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    These territories were occupied by Petliurists, but they did not want to fight with a powerful group of Reds, so they turned a blind eye to its advancement. In response, the Reds did not touch the Petliurists.

    On September 19, the imam created the North Caucasus Emirate - an Islamic state (Sharia monarchy) that existed in the mountains of Dagestan and Chechnya, part of Ingushetia. His forces amounted to 60 thousand fighters.

    Rebellion is active supported by the governments of Azerbaijan and Georgia, feared victories of the White movement and Turkey.

    Also in the army of the North Caucasus the emirate also included red. Highlanders raided the Cossack villages and lowland settlements.

    What a touching UNITY of the Reds with all Russophobic evil spirits: they united with ALL haters of Russia, striving to tear it to shreds.

    For this they paid the nationalists with Russian lands, Russian villages, Russian villages, permission to evict and genocide the Russian population, the destruction of Russian names, the Russian identity of the former Russian villages, cities, territories.

    That is why terrible battles took place in the village of Samashki in the 90s-2000s: the Russian, Cossack population of the Russian village of SAMASHKINSKAYA was evicted and cut out red one hundred years ago, as in dozens of other villages and villages of Chechnya and the Caucasus, and their houses and lands transferred to the Red Highlanders.

    So destroyed Russian Chechnya, the Russian frontier in southern Russia.

    So destroyed Russian New Russia, which became the so-called "uraine."

    White Russia fought against thisfor the One and Indivisible Country, against the criminal division of Russia and its current borders of the 17th century, cut by the Bolsheviks, against the transformation of the Russian people and Russia into disenfranchised and endless donor and servant suburbs.

    and, of course, she coped with all the nationalists with ease, but she had to throw the main forces against the criminal invaders of the Bolsheviks ...
    1. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 09: 10 New
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      and, of course, she coped with all the nationalists with ease, but she had to throw the main forces against the criminal invaders of the Bolsheviks ...
      And these "powers" pumped all that could! The film “Running” shows very well how these “valiant warriors” fled, throwing not only the remnants of their belongings, but also the remnants of honor and conscience, if any!
      1. bober1982 7 November 2019 09: 27 New
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        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        The movie "Running" is very well shown

        No restaurant, no girls! Green longing.
        General Khludov
      2. Olgovich 7 November 2019 09: 57 New
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        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        prokakali all that could be!

        these so-called "winners" of the Thief. Yeah : no country, no army, no people, no competitive economy, no money, no history, no idolsnor culture -NOTHING not left all :
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        prokakali
        yes lol

        FULL BANKRUPTlost
        = Alexander Suvorov] remnants of honor and conscience, if any!
        1. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 10: 26 New
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          Olgovich (Andrey)
          these so-called "winners" of the Thief. yeah: no country, no army, no people, no competitive economy, no money, no history, no idols, no culture —NO-CHE-GO left, everything:
          Exactly after RI there was NOTHING left but devastation. But the legacy of Stalin still can not plunder. EVERYTHING on which today's Russia is based is ALL the legacy of the USSR.
          FULL BANKRUPTS LOST
          Your bakers YES, namely complete bankrupt, and the current authorities are also not far gone. Under Stalin, for 2 five-year periods, we first overcame the lag behind the West in 50-100 years, and then for 2 five-year years we lifted the country out of ruins, created a vigorous bomb and laid the groundwork for manned space flight. And for 28 years of post-Soviet life, we have reduced the economy to a miserable 1-1,5% growth.
          I repeat your miserable attempts to denigrate the USSR and its achievements do not impress anyone here, except for you and a couple of similar crunchy cripples like you.
          1. Olgovich 7 November 2019 12: 15 New
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            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            Exactly after RI there was NOTHING left but devastation. But the legacy of Stalin still can not plunder. EVERYTHING on which today's Russia is based is ALL the legacy of the USSR.

            yes, yes, EVERYTHING was brought in a sealed wagon apfelbaum with zalkinda lol : and RUSSIAN scientists who created atom and space: Vernadsky, Ioffe, Keldysh, Khlopins, Mysovskys, etc., 130 thousand schools, former by 1917, hundreds of thousands of teachers, former by 1917, Baltzavods, Putilovsky, Izhora, Sormovsky, shipyards , ports, Transsiberian, etc., etc.

            But in this case they were not able to build a bridge longer than ALEXEEVSKY in 70 years, to build the Trans-Siberian Railway, or at least one battleship, no matter how many tried.

            The largest country, they also brought in a bowler hat of the form, and not the Russian people created it for 1000 years.

            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            Your bakers YES, namely complete bankrupt, and the current authorities are also not far gone. Under Stalin, for 2 five-year periods, we first overcame the lag behind the West in 50-100 years, and then for 2 five-year years we lifted the country out of ruins, created a vigorous bomb and laid the groundwork for manned space flight. And for 28 years of post-Soviet life, we have reduced the economy to a miserable 1-1,5% growth.
            I repeat your miserable attempts to denigrate the USSR and its achievements do not impress anyone here, except for you and a couple of similar crunchy cripples like you.

            surprisingly exact word you have chosen about the final RESULTS of the Bolsheviks:
            : no country, no army, no people, no competitive economy, no money, no history, no idols, no culture -NI-CHE-GO left, everything:
            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            prokakali

            Maladets! hi
            1. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 12: 23 New
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              Olgovich (Andrey) 130 thousand schools that were by 1917, hundreds of thousands of teachers who were by 1917,
              Only exist in your sick imagination!
              Maladets!
              Kaneshna!
              1. Olgovich 7 November 2019 12: 41 New
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                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                Only exist in your sick imagination!

                To school, ignoramus! lol

                Already not maladets request
        2. Looking for 7 November 2019 16: 04 New
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          the winners were our great-grandfathers and grandfathers and fathers, that’s what they had EVERYTHING — and the country and the army and history. and the economy. And the money was there. It was everything — Soviet. and raise our heads. we didn’t destroy you. without any law. with our own vessels. VERY SORRY !!!!. But. - it’s not too late. !!!!
    2. abc_alex 7 November 2019 10: 03 New
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      Quote: Olgovich
      White Russia fought against this for a united and indivisible country.

      Uh ... Well, actually, no. White Russia fought primarily for power. Moreover, in the same way as the Reds did not neglect the help of any foreign land. The British, Shtatovtsy and Japanese occupied quite a Russian city. And I want to note that Islamic rebels with the support of purely secondary countries are not the same as the military contingents of the leading countries of the world, entrenched in the country's largest ports. How the whites were going to drive the invaders out of the country, if they defeated the red, is a huge question. Moreover, the Republic of Ingushetia gained so many debts for the war on such conditions that it was not just reproachful, but even looking in their direction was reproachfully dangerous.
      Apologists for the white movement believe for some reason that the main problem of the whites was the reds. But any historian will tell you that the main problem of the whites was the lack of a normal program of post-war actions. The idea of ​​the Constituent Assembly was not bad in February 1917. And by 1918 it was already rotten. The peasants wanted land here and now, immediately and guaranteed. White did not even think about it. And with indivisibility there were also nuances. For example, the independence of Ukraine was recognized by the EaP Kerenskono. And how were White going to return to the Empire, for example, Poland? War again?
      1. Olgovich 7 November 2019 10: 18 New
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        Quote: abc_alex
        Uh ... Well, actually, no. White Russia fought primarily for power.

        Ahhhh ... actually, YES: read the policy statements of the Russian government, Denikin and Kolchak: the power should belong to the PEOPLE who chose the CSS,
        Quote: abc_alex
        Moreover, in the same way as the Reds did not neglect the help of any foreign land. The British, Shtatovtsy and Japanese occupied quite a Russian city.

        They spit on the whites: they had their own interests.
        Quote: abc_alex
        How the whites were going to drive the invaders out of the country, if they defeated the red, is a huge question.

        This is a question only for those unaware of the history of their country:
        -Antanta tore Brest betrayal and returned to the country sold by the Bolsheviks
        -USA drove yapps from the Far East
        The SAMI interventionists left when they completed their tasks. The Reds who defeated and cut Russia turned out to be more profitable for them than White
        Quote: abc_alex
        Moreover, the Republic of Ingushetia gained so many debts for the war on such conditions that it was not just reproachful, but even looking in their direction was reproachfully dangerous.

        Uh, England. France scored no less, but, in the end, everything was decommissioned.
        Quote: abc_alex
        Apologists for the white movement believe for some reason that the main problem of the whites was the reds. But any historian will tell you that the main problem of the whites was the lack of a normal program of post-war actions. The idea of ​​the Constituent Assembly was not bad in February 1917. And by 1918 it was already rotten.

        the idea of ​​the power of the people cannot foul: it is still alive
        Quote: abc_alex
        The peasants wanted land here and now, immediately and guaranteed. Whites about it even did not think.

        nonsense.
        Quote: abc_alex
        For example, the independence Ukraine recognized more VP Kerenskono.

        belay lol
        DON'T SAY NONS.
        Quote: abc_alex
        And how were White going to return to the Empire, for example, Poland? War again?

        Poland became independent, but its border was very far in the West. And without any war: Russia, as the winner of the war, no one would say a word. This is not some kind of loser loser SNKiya
        1. Foul skeptic 7 November 2019 11: 31 New
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          SAMI interventionists left when they completed their tasks. The Reds who defeated and cut Russia turned out to be more profitable for them than White

          With this "interpretation" questions arise:
          1) why then the interventionists were on the side of the “white” and not the “red”, if the goals of the “red” met the goals of the interventionists (to defeat and cut Russia)? Some very ornate "multi-path" is obtained.
          2) the interventionists left, completing the tasks. It turns out that if there were a victory for the “whites”, the tasks of the interventionists would not have been fulfilled. It turns out that they would not have a reason to leave, because Russia is not defeated and not cut. How would White decide this issue?
          Uh, England. France scored no less, but, in the end, everything was decommissioned

          Great Britain paid debts for WWI only by 2015.
          Poland became independent, but its border was very far in the West. And without any war: Russia, as the winner of the war, no one would say a word.

          So how then to realize this same “One and Indivisible” in those conditions? Poland, Ukraine, Finland, the Caucasus, Central Asia have shown that they are not “united”. Poland has shown that it is not "indivisible."
          1. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 12: 08 New
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            Vile Skeptic (Timur)
            With this "interpretation" questions arise:
            1) why then the interventionists were on the side of the “white” and not the “red”, if the goals of the “red” met the goals of the interventionists (to defeat and cut Russia)?
            Timur hi , it’s the same “olgovich” in his parallel universe, his own parallel story, in which milk rivers flowed in the Republic of Ingushetia on the jelly banks, where the peasants were completely literate, well-fed and happy, etc. etc. and other nonsense of a madman from ward number 6. So do not pay attention, he has an exacerbation today, a day of mourning for boulder crackles.
          2. Olgovich 7 November 2019 12: 34 New
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            Quote: A vile skeptic
            1) why then the interventionists were on the side of the “white” and not the “red”, if the goals of the “red” met the goals of the interventionists (to defeat and cut Russia)? Some very ornate "multi-path" is obtained.

            Find out the history of the country and the oddities will disappear:
            -The main goal of the intrusion was not Russia. as such, and the exclusion of the participation of the country's resources on the side of Germany. Everything else is insofar as.
            - Deliveries to Denikin went only with March 1919ending soon, whites are not recognized as allies, abandoned by them without resources and support.
            - "Let them boil in their cauldron as they want," is their motto.
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            the interventionists left by completing the tasks. It turns out that if there were a victory for the “whites”, the tasks of the interventionists would not have been fulfilled. It turns out that they would not have a reason to leave, because Russia is not defeated and not cut. How would White decide this issue?

            Under white rule, intervention is IMPOSSIBLE, because there is no reason: no traitors, no intervention.
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            Great Britain paid debts for WWI only by 2015.

            Do not carry nonsense: it is a debt under the STATE DOMESTIC BONDS for 120 thousand creditors.
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            So how then to realize this same “One and Indivisible” in those conditions? Poland, Ukraine, Finland, the Caucasus, Central Asia have shown that they are not "united" ..

            Which, in u, is "Ukraine?" There was NO “ukrina”, it was a Soviet invention, and Denikin did a great job with the embryos. The same was true for Wed. Asia, Caucasus.
            Poland - independence was already promised. Yes, and with her.
            1. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 12: 49 New
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              Olgovich (Andrey)
              Under white rule, intervention is IMPOSSIBLE, because there is no reason: no traitors, no intervention.
              Ha ha ha laughing laughing laughing and that is why the intervention was only where the white were, but for some reason they preferred the red interventionists were not, because they could rake in the snot. But in the territory controlled by white, these creatures bloodthirsty drank plenty of people's blood. That is precisely why the people must have thrown a shaft to the red and drove both whites and interventionists into the neck.
            2. Foul skeptic 7 November 2019 16: 07 New
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              -The main goal of the intrusion was not Russia. as such, and the exclusion of the participation of the country's resources on the side of Germany. Everything else is insofar as.
              - Deliveries to Denikin went only in March 1919

              But the goal is not constant. “excluding the participation of resources on the side of Germany” could (and was one of) be a goal until November (even October) 1918. Later on this date, Germany was not talking about any resources for it as an excuse for finding a number of states on the territory of another state. can not. Especially if you know about such an event as the Iasi Conference (by the way, just in November 1918). What brings us back to the “multi-way” - if the “defeated and cut Russia” is more profitable for the interventionists, then why didn’t they help the “Reds” after the end of the WWII and the neutralization of Germany?
              Under white rule, intervention is IMPOSSIBLE, because there is no reason: no traitors, no intervention.

              The struggle of the “white” and “red” for power since what year began? What year did the intervention begin? If the "whites" win this struggle, then the troops of foreign states at this moment are still on the territory of our country. And here are two options, and both contradict you:
              1) The interventionists quietly leave, but then it turns out that they do not care whether Russia is “torn” or not, although you write a message earlier that the interventionists left when they achieved their goals, once the Reds “torn” the country.
              2) The interventionists continue to pursue their goals until Russia is torn apart. How will white solve such a problem?
              Do not carry nonsense: it is a debt under the STATE DOMESTIC BONDS for 120 thousand creditors

              Do you have the word debt in your message? Present. What are the claims then. In 1932, the state issued bonds because it could not pay debt - due to the rejection of the gold standard in 1931, the budget became scarce. And private individuals paid US debt. Therefore, the creditor simply changed from the state to private individuals. What is debt relief? No, this is a restructuring. And before the 30s tell how the repayment happened? Germany owes money for reparations of Britain and France, Britain and France owe US ​​money for loans. The United States gives a loan to Germany, and that this loan pays with Britain and France for reparations. And Britain and France repay US loans with this money. Where is the cancellation of debts?
              Which, in u, is "Ukraine?" There was NO “ukrina”, it was a Soviet invention, and Denikin did a great job with the embryos. The same was true for Wed. Asia, Caucasus.
              Poland - independence was already promised. Yes, and with her

              Normal, with a Directory. The very existence of such formations shows the centrifugal forces existing in the state. With which you need to do something. And as the whole history of mankind shows, the forceful solution to such problems is not the best way out.
              Ah, Poland was promised ... So it’s not necessary to fill in about a single and indivisible one, since what is needed is not “single and indivisible”, but power over what remains.
              1. Olgovich 8 November 2019 10: 53 New
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                Quote: A vile skeptic
                But the goal is not constant. “excluding the participation of resources on the side of Germany” could (and was one of) be a goal until November (even October) 1918. Later on this date, Germany was not talking about any resources for it as an excuse for finding a number of states on the territory of another state. can not.

                What are you saying? lol
                Very "subtle" remark.
                Naturally, they also solved their GEOPOLITICAL tasks: weaken Russia, create a cordon around it. And let them boil in their cauldron. Having done this, they stopped supporting White, betrayed them and recognized the Reds.
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                “crushed and cut Russia” is beneficial, why didn’t they, after the end of the WWII and the neutralization of Germany, help the “Reds”?

                belay
                WHAT FOR?! For what? to help ISIS (Comintern) against ... yourself?
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                there are two options, and both of you contradict:
                1) The interventionists quietly leave, but then it turns out that they do not care whether Russia is “torn” or not, although you write a message earlier that the interventionists left when they achieved their goals, once the Reds “torn” the country.
                2) The interventionists continue to pursue their goals until Russia is torn apart. How will white solve such a problem?

                1. White would have been in power in 1917. November: There would be no intervention. What's not clear?
                2. The West is quietly cleaning up: it didn’t work, it didn’t work, and after the World War there were enough worries and there was simply no home and strength for a new war.
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                Do you have the word debt in your message? Present. What are the claims then.

                Large: I talked about the "debts of England, France," see above. What does France have to do with ... English domestic bonds? Naturally, we are talking about external borrowings, which you perfectly understood, but, having gotten into a mess, you get out.
                And the United States returned .... only a FOUR of $ 10 billion in debt, and with inflation, 10%. The rest is forgiven.
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                Normal, with a Directory. The very existence of such formations shows the centrifugal forces existing in the state. With which you need to do something. And as the whole history of mankind shows, the forceful solution to such problems is not the best way out.

                Forces were, yes, but powerless. The directory has power in the territory of the carriage it occupies.
                History shows that during the war years, all issues are exacerbated, but then subside.

                And Ukraine then, it’s never ukromonstergrown by you: this is Russian territory in spirit and letter: the whole of New Russia, Slobozhanshchina, even Kiev met White enthusiastically.
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                Ah, Poland was promised ... So it’s not necessary to fill in about a single and indivisible one, since what is needed is not “single and indivisible”, but power over what remains.

                It is necessary, comrade, it is necessary: ​​look, WHAT you and the country have done in 70 years: Russia has never experienced such a wild defeat NEVER (17th century!).
                The work of the Russian people during TWO CENTURIES-cat down the drain.
                1. Foul skeptic 11 November 2019 12: 04 New
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                  Naturally, they also solved their GEOPOLITICAL tasks: weaken Russia

                  Eeee .... and recklessly take such "allies" as allies?
                  WHAT FOR?! For what? to help ISIS (Comintern) against ... yourself?

                  Why against yourself if the activities of the "Reds" coincided with the geopolitical goals of the "Allies"? You yourself wrote above - in order to achieve your geopolitical goals faster - weaken Russia.
                  White would have been in power in 1917. November: There would be no intervention. What's not clear?

                  It is unclear why you are writing about what did not happen. White did not appear in power in 1917. But, let’s say, they come to power later, having won the Civil. Let's consider this option.
                  The West is quietly cleaning

                  Such a good chance to achieve their geopolitical goals is to weaken Russia ... And is it just getting out?
                  Large: I talked about the "debts of England, France," see above. What does France have to do with ... English domestic bonds? Naturally, we are talking about external borrowings, which you perfectly understood, but, having gotten into a mess, you get out.

                  And what, I wrote somewhere about France related to English war bonds? I only showed by the example of England that no one forgave anything, but restructured, after which I paid anyway.
                  And the United States returned .... only a FOUR of $ 10 billion in debt, and with inflation, 10%. The rest is forgiven.

                  I would be grateful for the source of the information, it is interesting to read, I just have other information (that England, according to the results of the agreements (after another restructuring in exchange for abandoning the gold standard) of the early 30s, should have paid in full, and the amount of payments should have been something about 4,6 billion)
                  1. Olgovich 11 November 2019 12: 51 New
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                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    Eeee .... and recklessly take such "allies" as allies?

                    but there are other "allies"? They are all and always the same. They were all well aware of St. Dolochism.
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    It is unclear why you are writing about what did not happen. White did not appear in power in 1917. But, let’s say, they come to power later, having won the Civil. Let's consider this option.

                    in fact, they were in power until November 17: NO intervention at all.
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    Such a good chance to achieve their geopolitical goals is to weaken Russia ... And is it just getting out?
                    Б

                    Russia is weakened, the cordon is standing, the goal has been largely achieved.
                    I wanted more, but strength and of no
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    And what, I wrote somewhere about France related to English war bonds? I only showed by the example of England that no one forgave anything, but restructured, after which I paid anyway.

                    This I emphasized to say again about external the nature of the debts I mentioned.
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    I would be grateful for the source of information, interesting to read, I just have other information

                    https://vakhnenko.livejournal.com/48104.htm
                    1. Foul skeptic 11 November 2019 13: 01 New
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                      Thank you, Andrey. I read
                    2. Foul skeptic 11 November 2019 15: 19 New
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                      https://vakhnenko.livejournal.com/48104.htm

                      Andrei, the author of this LJ, used the book "A Diplomatic History of the American People" as a source. If you spend a little time, you can find out that the information on debts for the First World War applies to the period until 1940, when the first edition of this book was published. That is, the fate of debts in a later period must be sought additionally. And, most likely, in English literature.
                      PS By the way, the fact that money does not receive debt through direct transfers does not mean that money does not receive on other things. Everything is quite confusing. I have so far found three sources of such indirect debt repayment:
                      1) the abolition of trading in gold and the transition to settlement in dollars
                      2) reduction of trade duties on goods imported from the USA by 80%
                      3) transfer of the island of Chagos for 50 years (but this is already possible at the expense of debts for WWII, as happened after WWII).
                      1. Olgovich 12 November 2019 10: 00 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        PS By the way, the fact that money does not receive debt through direct transfers does not mean that money does not receive on other things. Everything is quite confusing. I have so far found three sources of such indirect debt repayment:
                        1) the abolition of trading in gold and the transition to settlement in dollars
                        2) reduction of trade duties on goods imported from the USA by 80%
                        3) transfer of the island of Chagos for 50 years (but this is already possible at the expense of debts for WWII, as happened after WWII).

                        This confusion suggests that there was NO return.
                        All these "indirect" "repayments" could have a bunch of other reasons: the same transition to dollars would occur in ANY case, due to objective processes of development of the world market.
                      2. Foul skeptic 12 November 2019 10: 12 New
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                        This confusion suggests that there was no return

                        You may well be right, I still do not have accurate information. As already said, you have to search in the English-speaking sector of the Internet and on paid resources.
                        Just the first two points have one reason - this was the condition for the transition from 5% to 3,3% rate.
                        Switching to the dollar. Don’t be WWII thing controversial enough. The Americans have something to learn in this regard, they use financial instruments brilliantly.
                  2. Foul skeptic 11 November 2019 15: 50 New
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                    in fact, they were in power until November 17: NO intervention at all

                    Was it exactly? And here are some characteristics of contemporaries about power between February and October:
                    - cadet Trubetskoy - "ten power"
                    - leader of the People’s Freedom party Milyukov - "polyarchy"
                    - Commissioner of the Saratov province Semenov - "anarchy"
                    Russia is weakened, the cordon is standing, the goal has been largely achieved.
                    I wanted more, but I don’t have the strength and resources.

                    If they knew what would happen in 30 years, I think they would not stop.
                    But a lot of forces and means would not be needed, I think enough nationalists of all stripes would have been warmed up. And to receive not a federation, as happened with the USSR., But fragmented individual small states.
                    Do you have a cordon between whom and by whom and from whom? )))
                    1. Olgovich 12 November 2019 10: 11 New
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                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      Was it exactly? And here are some characteristics of contemporaries about power between February and October:
                      - cadet Trubetskoy - "ten power"
                      - leader of the People’s Freedom party Milyukov - "polyarchy"
                      - Commissioner of the Saratov province Semenov - "anarchy"

                      Power was, albeit weakened. Moreover, Russia - "the freest country in the world! " (lenin)
                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      If they knew what would happen in 30 years, I think they would not stop.
                      But a lot of forces and means would not be needed, I think enough nationalists of all stripes would have been warmed up. And to receive not a federation, as happened with the USSR., But fragmented individual small states.

                      I do not know....

                      Then they lived today, and the day was terrible: France and England suffered such inconceivable losses to them in people and means that they never suffered in history.
                      France was generally broken FOREVER. So that... recourse

                      Nationalists then were weak and they were beaten all-white and red (red-after use for its intended purpose.)
                      We had to go with them ourselves ...
                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      Do you have a cordon between whom and by whom and from whom? )))

                      Well, what about? belay
                      Remember card b. RI ....
                    2. Foul skeptic 12 November 2019 10: 32 New
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                      Moreover, Russia is "the freest country in the world!" (lenin)

                      Two remarks)):
                      1) as of April 1917 compared with previous months
                      2) among the warring countries
                      The nationalists were weak then and they were all beaten

                      their weakness in their fragmentation, as in the parable of the twigs of a broom. For strength, they lacked the centralization of their actions, which the intervention countries could provide, having previously recognized and officially secured an agreement on granting independence of neoplasms so that nationalists had motivation. I think so.
                      Well, what about? belay
                      Remember card b. RI ....

                      Well, I don’t think the conversation about the cordon between Russia and the former Triple Alliance is serious, they are losers. The main violin is behind the Entente countries. And there were no common borders with them (Romania and Poland should not be offered).
                    3. Olgovich 12 November 2019 11: 43 New
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                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      Well, I don’t think the conversation about the cordon between Russia and the former is serious Triple Alliancethey are losers. The main violin is behind the Entente countries. And there were no common borders with them (Romania and Poland should not be offered).

                      they are -Europe. so yes yes: romania poland baltic
                    4. Foul skeptic 12 November 2019 12: 00 New
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                      )) just in the context of your words
                      the main goal of the intrusion was not Russia. as such, and the exclusion of the participation of the country's resources on the side of Germany.

                      I naturally excluded the triple alliance
                    5. Olgovich 12 November 2019 12: 15 New
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                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      I naturally excluded the triple alliance

                      No, it’s not natural: the war is already over.
                    6. Foul skeptic 12 November 2019 13: 15 New
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                      the main goal of the intrusion was not Russia. as such, and the exclusion of the participation of the country's resources on the side of Germany

                      in this message we are talking about the opposing countries-opponents of Germany, because in relation to the countries-allies of Germany and Germany itself, the phrase "excluding resources on the German side" does not make sense - they themselves could not exclude them))) Based on this and it was concluded that the tripartite alliance is not considered.
  • abc_alex 7 November 2019 13: 37 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    Ahhhh ... actually, YES: read the policy statements of the Russian government, Denikin and Kolchak: the power should belong to the PEOPLE who chose the CSS,


    Yes? Did Denikin and Kolchak ask the people? Did the people need CSS? US still does not know how and when they were going to form. Let me remind you that the election law of RI did not provide for equal representation. And no one spoke to White about equal representation. And the people needed land and peace. Here and now. Immediate and guaranteed.
    And democracy was already realized through the Soviets. They were much more popular.

    Quote: Olgovich
    They spit on the whites: they had their own interests.


    Without a doubt. Turn Russia into a colony, rob if possible, shift the burden of the post-war reconstruction of Europe onto the Russians. But they supported the whites. Strange ...

    Quote: Olgovich
    -Antanta tore Brest betrayal and returned to the country sold by the Bolsheviks
    -USA drove yapps from the Far East
    The SAMI interventionists left when they completed their tasks. The Reds who defeated and cut Russia turned out to be more profitable for them than White


    What, what did she tear, what did she return? You are not lost on the Timeline? The Brest peace was concluded in the spring of 1918, and already on November 13, 1918, the Bolsheviks terminated it themselves in connection with the collapse of the German Empire. And the intervention from England continued until at least the 20th! And the Japanese kept Sakhalin right up to 1921.
    The Compiegne truce was concluded on November 11, 1918. From this moment the interventionists could have had NO legal goals in Russia. BUT they’ve sat and thought for a couple of years. Until they realized that Russia was not going to fall apart, and the new government, to put it mildly, was not friendly.

    Quote: Olgovich
    Uh, England. France scored no less, but, in the end, everything was decommissioned.


    Oh, my friend, you’re a pink-cheeked optimist! First, look at the conditions under which foreigners provided loans to the Imperials in the last years of the war. Maybe you will see clearly. And NEVER confuse the attitude of Europeans towards each other and the attitude of Europeans towards Russia and Russians! These are two big differences.

    Quote: Olgovich
    the idea of ​​the power of the people cannot foul: it is still alive

    There is such a word - nonsense. This is what you just designed. The power of the people was then easily realized through the Soviets. Moreover, it was the Soviet system that was precisely the people’s, simple and understandable to the people. In contrast to the half-doomed Doom and CSS.

    Quote: Olgovich
    nonsense


    Truth. Objective reality.
    You just don’t understand what country you are talking about. Once again: the population in 1917 needed two things immediately: peace and land. Precisely because neither you nor your heroes understood this, they lost the war, even with external support.

    Quote: Olgovich
    DON'T SAY NONS.

    ??? Yes, how would it be a story as it is:
    On June 28 (July 11), a delegation of the Provisional Government arrived in Kiev, consisting of A. Kerensky, I. Tsereteli, M. Tereshchenko in order to establish relations with the Central Rada. The delegation stated that the government would not object to the autonomy of Ukraine, but requested that it refrain from unilaterally declaring this principle and leave the final decision to the All-Russian Constituent Assembly.
    And you did not know ???

    Quote: Olgovich
    Poland became independent, but its border was very far in the West. And without any war: Russia, as the winner of the war, no one would say a word. This is not some kind of loser loser SNKiya


    Once again I ask: if you are talking about a commitment to "one and indivisible" then explain HOW were the whites going to return Poland to Russia? What about Finland? The latter generally had all the rights to autonomy, since it joined Russia as a personal union. War? Do not blaze through the tree - tell me, by war?
    1. parusnik 7 November 2019 20: 06 New
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      The Brest peace was concluded in the spring of 1918
      ... A little a month earlier, the Ukrainian directory, and at their request, the occupation of Ukraine by the Austro-German troops began, the so-called whites did not rush to form detachments to repel the invaders, and the resistance was rendered by the Red Guard detachments. Colonel Drozdovsky, who made his way to Don from the Romanian front, did not engage in battles with the Germans, but slowly defeated the Red Guards ... As they say, he fought with the "German mercenaries" laughing
    2. Olgovich 8 November 2019 11: 20 New
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      Quote: abc_alex

      Yes? Did Denikin and Kolchak ask the people? Did the people need CSS? US still does not know how and when they were going to form. Let me remind you that the election law of RI did not provide for equal representation. And nobody spoke of equal representation among whites.

      1. Need. As confirmed by the election in the CSS. But the so-called SNK-not needed, as confirmed by the non-election there
      2. Do not write nonsense: ALL EQUALS in ALL rights is the White Program. Unlike red segregation
      Quote: abc_alex
      And democracy was already realized through the Soviets. They were where more popular.

      Let me remind you, "folk": Unequal, Indirect, Non-Secret, Non-General NON-ELECTIONS, about profanity.

      Quote: abc_alex
      Without a doubt. Turn Russia into a colony, rob if possible, shift the burden of the post-war reconstruction of Europe onto the Russians. But they supported the whites. Strange ...

      RED supported, in the end, leaving White.
      Quote: abc_alex
      What, what did she tear, what did she return? You are not lost on the Timeline? The Brest peace was concluded in the spring of 1918, and already on November 13, 1918, the Bolsheviks terminated it themselves in connection with the collapse of the German Empire.

      Go to SCHOOL: ANTANTA tore Brest in Compiegne. And only then, grunting, annulled.
      Quote: abc_alex
      And the intervention from England continued until at least the 20th! And the Japanese kept Sakhalin right up to 1921.

      Until 1925, unlearned.
      So what? Thief and Brest caused an intervention, before them they WASN’T. And, naturally, ALL England solved their tasks to weaken the competitor
      Quote: abc_alex
      The Compiegne truce was concluded on November 11, 1918. From this moment the interventionists could have had NO legal goals in Russia. BUT they’ve sat and thought for a couple of years. Until they realized that Russia was not going to fall apart, and the new government, to put it mildly, was not friendly.

      ITS goals were, but by 1920, basically, they were removed: Russia was cut, crushed by the Reds, a cordon was created.
      Quote: abc_alex
      Oh, my friend, you’re a pink-cheeked optimist! First, look at the conditions under which foreigners provided loans to the Imperials in the last years of the war. Maybe you will see clearly. And NEVER confuse the attitude of Europeans towards each other and the attitude of Europeans towards Russia and Russians! These are two big differences.

      Uh, son, go to the SCHOOL and find out that the debts have been forgiven by ALL, and these are dozens of countries.
      And then Russia was SAME, like everyone else.
      Quote: abc_alex
      There is such a word - nonsense. This is what you just designed. The power of the people was then easily realized through the Soviets. Moreover, it was the Soviet system it’s popularsimple and understandable to the people. In contrast to the half-doomed Doom and CSS.

      This was ANTINARIAN power. Learn what ELECTIONS are. in the USSR they _NOT BEEN.
      Quote: abc_alex
      Truth. Objective reality.
      You just don’t understand what country you are talking about. Once again: the population in 1917 needed two things immediately: peace and land.

      Which was what White gave.
      The Reds gave instead of the world a wild SLAUGHTER, more dangerous than the WWII, instead of land, robbery and slavery for decades.
      This is just a fact.
      Quote: abc_alex
      ??? Yes, how would it be a story as it is:
      On June 28 (July 11), a delegation of the Provisional Government arrived in Kiev, consisting of A. Kerensky, I. Tsereteli, M. Tereshchenko in order to establish relations with the Central Rada. The delegation stated that the government would not object to the autonomy of Ukraine, but requested that it refrain from unilaterally declaring this principle and leave the final decision to the All-Russian Constituent Assembly.
      And you did not know ???

      WHERE is the independence about which you lied? And then there was September and October, when the VP selected this too.
      Read the Bolsheviks who cried about it in the Manifesto
      Quote: abc_alex
      Once again I ask: if you are talking about a commitment to "one and indivisible" then explain HOW were the whites going to return Poland to Russia? What about Finland? The latter generally had all the rights to autonomy, since it joined Russia as a personal union. War? Do not blaze through the tree - tell me, by war?

      1. Poland was released, in the future, by a possible decision of the CSS
      2. No “personal union” existed: you, excuse me, are illiterate.
  • albert 7 November 2019 18: 12 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    Denikin and Kolchak: the power should belong to the PEOPLE who chose the CSS,

    Bu-ha-ha, monarchist, Kolchak himself dispersed the founding member in Siberia and declared himself supreme ruler.
    1. Olgovich 8 November 2019 11: 22 New
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      Quote: albert
      Boo-ha-ha, monarchist, Kolchak founding dispersed in Siberia and declared himself supreme ruler.

      To school, ignoramus
  • Alexander Greene 7 November 2019 18: 41 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    Ahhhh ... actually, YES: read the policy statements of the Russian government, Denikin and Kolchak: the power should belong to the PEOPLE who chose the CSS,

    They promised a lot of things ... But from the promised, only the peasants overtook everyone in the villages.
    1. Olgovich 8 November 2019 11: 23 New
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      Quote: Alexander Green
      They promised a lot of things ... But from the promised, only the peasants overtook everyone in the villages.

      AND FULFILLED.

      Yours have not done ANYTHING.
      1. Alexander Greene 8 November 2019 17: 09 New
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        Quote: Olgovich
        AND FULFILLED.

        Indeed, for example, Kolchak overcame the whole of Siberia, for which the peasants defeated his army.
        1. Olgovich 9 November 2019 07: 46 New
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          Quote: Alexander Green
          Indeed, for example, Kolchak overcame the whole of Siberia, for which the peasants defeated his army.

          the Communists put "DANE" all over Russia (Stalin), for which they were thrown out forever.
          1. Alexander Greene 9 November 2019 11: 01 New
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            Quote: Olgovich
            the Communists put "DANE" all over Russia (Stalin), for which they were thrown out forever.

            The rumors that you spread are greatly exaggerated ...
            1. Olgovich 9 November 2019 12: 51 New
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              Quote: Alexander Green
              Quote: Olgovich
              the Communists put "DANE" all over Russia (Stalin), for which they were thrown out forever.

              The rumors that you spread are greatly exaggerated ...

              read Stalin
              1. Alexander Greene 9 November 2019 16: 09 New
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                Quote: Olgovich
                read Stalin

                I read Stalin everything, but you pull quotes and even single words out of context.
                1. Olgovich 10 November 2019 07: 23 New
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                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  I read Stalin everything, but you pull quotes and even single words out of context.

                  No pulling: the people paid the tribute to the regime: so Stalin declared
                2. Alexander Greene 10 November 2019 08: 22 New
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                  Quote: Olgovich
                  No pulling: the people paid the tribute to the regime: so Stalin declared

                  Pulling out is not only their text but also out of time.
                3. Olgovich 10 November 2019 10: 34 New
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                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Pulling out is not only their text but also out of time.

                  You’re ridiculous: when you are pressed against a wall, you start general empty chatter.
                4. Alexander Greene 10 November 2019 12: 05 New
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                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Pulling out is not only their text but also out of time.

                  You’re ridiculous: when you are pressed against a wall, you start general empty chatter.

                  I hope you already read the above folk wisdom about laughter for no reason ....
  • parusnik 7 November 2019 19: 58 New
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    The idea of ​​the Constituent Assembly was not bad in February 1917
    ... But the Provisional Government did not convene him ..
    And by 1918, it was already rotten.
    ... The Socialist-Revolutionary majority of the Constitutional Assembly convened by the Bolsheviks did not even want to approve the Decree on the Earth, created by the Social Revolutionaries and worked out by the Bolsheviks ... It was already rotten ... I don’t like alternatives, but imagine if the Constitution approved the Decree on Earth, rejecting the rest of the Soviet decrees adopted at that time by the Soviet government, how and where did history go? I don’t offer many options ... But they are tormented by the thought that the Soviet government could not resist ... Here we must pay tribute to the pragmatism of the Bolsheviks by adopting the Decree on Earth, they clearly understood when convening the CSS that neither Dean Soviet decree, including on the Earth will not be adopted and approved by the US ...
    1. abc_alex 7 November 2019 20: 29 New
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      Quote: parusnik
      The CSS approved the Decree on the Earth, rejecting the rest of the Soviet decrees adopted at that time by the Soviet government, how and where did the history go? I don’t offer many options ... But they are tormented by the thought that the Soviet government could not resist ...


      You are a little confused. The Soviets in 1918 had a rather weak relationship with the Bolsheviks. Almost everywhere, the Soviets were in the hands of the Mensheviks and essays. Significantly represented were the bourgeois and nationalist parties. In principle, the CSS could proclaim a bourgeois republic, but the real situation of dual power in Russia already existed and the people massively voted for the Soviets. They simply were more understandable to the bulk of the population: they were directly elected and allowed to recall the elected deputy at any time. So, most likely, the Soviets would crush the bourgeois republic.
  • Sugar Honeyovich 7 November 2019 14: 17 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    What a touching UNITY of the Reds with all Russophobic evil spirits: they united with ALL haters of Russia, striving to tear it to shreds.

    Result - Russia has been restored to almost its former borders.

    What did white do?
    "They fought with the Bolsheviks, they fought with the Ukrainians, and with Georgia, and Azerbaijan, and only a little was enough to start fighting with the Cossacks, who made up half of our army and in their blood on the battlefields soldered the connection with the regular units. As a result, proclaiming a single, great and indivisible Russia, we came to the conclusion that all the anti-Bolshevik Russian forces were divided and divided the whole of Russia into a number of entities that were at war with each other "(P.N. Wrangel).
    Then they lost. And in our time .... Your words: "Look at what flag is over the Kremlin." Therefore, the borders of Russia are now like in the 17th century. White won a century ago - the 17th century would have come then. Best case scenario. stop
    1. Olgovich 8 November 2019 11: 30 New
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      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
      Result - Russia restored in almost the same boundaries.

      This country did not have a relationship with Russia: see today's borders of RUSSIA.
      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
      Then they lost. And in our time .... Your words: "Look at what flag is over the Kremlin." Therefore, the borders of Russia are now like in the 17th century. White won a century ago - the 17th century would have come then. Best case scenario

      The causal relationship is unfamiliar, yes: I recall the chronology: VOR, Union of 15 States, Russian borders 17th century created by in 1917-1940 killers of Russia.

      School-help you for sclerosis. hi
      1. Alexander Greene 8 November 2019 17: 23 New
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        Quote: Olgovich
        School-help you for sclerosis.

        And the hospital is for you from whooping.
        1. Olgovich 9 November 2019 07: 49 New
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          Quote: Alexander Green
          And the hospital is for you from whooping.

          The FACTS of the annihilation of Russia are simply given, cram the chronology once again: the VOR, the Union of 16 States, the borders of Russia of the 17th century (created in 1917-1940 by the destroyers of Russia)
          1. Alexander Greene 9 November 2019 11: 02 New
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            Quote: Olgovich
            Just FACTS

            These are not facts, this is nonsense of a sick imagination.
            1. Olgovich 9 November 2019 12: 53 New
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              Quote: Alexander Green
              These are not facts, this is nonsense of a sick imagination.

              delirium is that emptiness or lie that instead of these FACTS existed in the so-called owls "stories"
              1. Alexander Greene 9 November 2019 16: 08 New
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                Quote: Olgovich
                delirium is that emptiness or lie that instead of these FACTS existed in the so-called owls "stories"

                There was no lie, it was our happy life, and if some facts were not exaggerated in the media for nothing, it was done for the purpose of uniting all nations into a single state, and now, they pulled the light of day, for example, the celebration of Kazan, Tatar nationalists immediately raised their heads. Why pick a healed, few new sores? And what you call facts is the nonsense of your teacher Goebbels ..
                1. Olgovich 10 November 2019 10: 12 New
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                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  There was no lie

                  lol
                  .
                  Examples of heinous lies - MILLION, I have given many times
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  b, and if any facts were not exaggerated for nothing in the media, so this is done with the goal of uniting all nations into a single state

                  1.Op-pa. already recognized. that lied instead of truth

                  2. Not yours it’s up to you to decide what people need to know and what don’t: chop on your nose with an ax!
                  All people are EQUAL in rights, including on information.
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Why pick a healed, few new sores?

                  Didn’t get it yet? In order not to repeat this horror.
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  And what you call facts is the nonsense of your teacher Goebbels ..

                  And you refute, and do not talk in vain. In 33 g, millions died of starvation, and someone in the meantime called them ... wealthy people. There are no words ....
                  1. Alexander Greene 10 November 2019 12: 02 New
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                    It is useless to argue with you, because you do not even understand what you read.
                    Here is an example of your sick imagination.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    b, and if some facts were not exaggerated in the media, it was done for the purpose of uniting all nations into a single state

                    1.Op-pa. already recognized. that lied instead of truth


                    From which finger did you suck out your conclusion of my confession: "What LIED is the truth"?
                    And so you have everything, so you urgently need to "ward number 6".
                    1. Olgovich 11 November 2019 07: 02 New
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                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      From which finger did you suck out your conclusion of my confession: "What LIED is the truth"?

                      Sclerosis is incurable:
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      b, and if any factwe haven’t been exaggerated in the media, so this is done with the goal of uniting all nations into a single state

                      What is this?
                    2. Alexander Greene 11 November 2019 20: 14 New
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                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Sclerosis is incurable: ..... WHAT is it?

                      Dullness is also incurable. "... the facts were in no way exaggerated in the media ..." - means that the facts are known, but, unlike you, they were not savored in the media, so as not to incite passions for the destruction of society.
                    3. Olgovich 12 November 2019 10: 33 New
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                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Dullness is also incurable. "

                      Ek, you are self-critical ... Well, you know better hi
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      ..the facts were not in vain exaggerated in the media ... "- means that the facts are known, but, unlike you, they were not savored in the media, so as not to incite passions for the destruction of society.


                      Nope, this means that they hid an absolutely terrible truth from people and LIED about millions ... "prosperous", but for some reason, people who died of hunger.

                      How many SECONDS of yours would remain in power if you told the truth and allowed the election?


                      Let me remind you: it's NOT up to you to decide what to know and what not.
                    4. Alexander Greene 12 November 2019 18: 19 New
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                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Ek, you are self-critical ... Well, you know better

                      This comment once again convinces you that you finally fell into childhood.
  • Naz
    Naz 7 November 2019 08: 33 New
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    Happy November 7th! Hooray comrades!
    1. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 09: 07 New
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      Thank! And you happy holiday! hi
  • SERGEY SERGEEVICS 7 November 2019 08: 59 New
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    One of those respected and worthy people who showed his devotion and showed allotment to his beloved Homeland. Eternal memory to him, so that everyone knows and remembers that we had such outstanding Heroes!
    1. abc_alex 7 November 2019 10: 09 New
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      Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
      One of those respected and worthy people who showed his devotion and showed allotment to his beloved Homeland. Eternal memory to him, so that everyone knows and remembers that we had such outstanding Heroes!


      Are you talking about Denikin? This is a difficult question. He was a good officer in his own way, a patriot, but got into such complex political processes that he could not figure out. In fact, it became the flag and the club of a case that was obviously doomed due to the lack of an idea and an adequate understanding of the causes of events. Is it boring to remember - yes. Do I need to be respected - yes. Whether it is necessary to exalt - no. Not in his case, he climbed.
      1. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 10: 33 New
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        abc_alex (Alexey) Is it boring to remember - yes.
        Remember you need to agree, history in general needs to know and remember!
        Do I need to be respected - yes.
        Respect the traitor? Who called on the US to war against its homeland and its people? Let’s then “respect” everyone and Krasnov and Shkuro and Vlasov, and what are they of the same type, too, "in their own patriots" ...?!
      2. SERGEY SERGEEVICS 7 November 2019 10: 43 New
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        Are you talking about Denikin?
        Yes.
        He was a good officer in his own way, a patriot,
        Exactly, he was a worthy officer and patriot. Who did not give up his country and defended its interests until the last, and many simply took and left.
        got into such complex political processes that he could not figure out.
        So he was a military man and he had to defend these complex processes. So - as the civil war was already going on. And he had to resort to this in order to establish power in the country and preserve it.
        In fact, it became the flag and the club of a case that was obviously doomed due to the lack of an idea and an adequate understanding of the causes of events.
        No, he defended the interests of people who lived in the Tsarist Empire and maintained the integrity of the country.
        Is it boring to remember - yes. Do I need to be respected - yes.
        You rightly said that. This is also our story and it must not be forgotten, with its Heroes.
        Whether it is necessary to exalt - no.
        Nobody extols him, I write the facts that were and are allotment, and not somewhere in the books.
        Not in his case, he climbed.
        He was a military man who at one time took the oath, which says: to protect and protect your country and ruler. So he did this and for him these words were a non-empty place.
        1. abc_alex 7 November 2019 14: 07 New
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          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          Respect the traitor? Who called on the US to war against its homeland and its people?

          Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
          No, he defended the interests of people who lived in the Tsarist Empire and maintained the integrity of the country.


          This is not entirely true. I would venture to assert that we and many do not quite correctly understand the motives of white officers. Not all of them fought against the Reds for political reasons. The fact is that since 1916, there were strong suspicions in the Russian officers that the imperial elite was struck by betrayal. In general, the army and the population were very seriously looking for traitors, since it was difficult to explain the defeats of the Russian army. Therefore, the army did not support H2 and its overthrow in fact was a conspiracy of generals. Especially got his wife H2.
          That is why the Bolsheviks, contrary to common sense, were accused of betrayal and work for the Germans. Stupidity, of course, but it was a very simple and reliable way to quickly and sharply discredit them.
          Therefore, for so many white officers, the war with the Reds was a continuation of the 1MB but only a "front inward." Kolchak and Denikin were exactly what officers were and they continued to fight “with the Germans,” they were extremely far from political programs and state building.

          Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
          He was a military man who at one time took the oath, which says: to protect and protect your country and ruler. So he did this and for him these words were a non-empty place.


          The problem is that the army is not a hammer, you can’t just beat them wherever they say. And the civil war is more difficult than hammering nails. The whites, of course, defended the usual way of the country to which they swore allegiance. BUT, on the other hand, the Reds had the same officers and they also swore an oath to Russia and also believed that they had not violated it.

          Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
          How could he call to fight with the motherland? Do you even know what the homeland is? Most likely not, just write such nonsense. He did not call for war with the Motherland, and how is it even possible? You will first study these words and what it means.


          Well, just like that. Advised Denikin US intelligence on the fight against the USSR. Including promoted the idea of ​​a financial blockade of the USSR. This is in 1946, when the USSR was recovering from the war. In fact, he promoted the idea of ​​economic strangulation of the country. I don’t know how much this fit into his patriot logic, but frankly, all this would not bring joy to the people of the USSR, the Russians.
          1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS 7 November 2019 14: 39 New
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            Here you have personally written practically everything in essence, much of which, in fact, was in fact, if you take all of this from history.
    2. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 10: 36 New
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      SERGEY SERGEEVICS (SERGEY SERGEEVICS)
      One of those respected and worthy people who showed his devotion and showed allotment to his beloved Homeland.
      Well, yes, he showed how. He "loved" his homeland so much that he called on the United States to war with that same homeland; good "love" cannot be said!
      Eternal memory to him, so that everyone knows and remembers that we had such outstanding Heroes!
      Well, what traitors themselves, such are your “heroes” ...
      1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS 7 November 2019 10: 57 New
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        Well, yes, he showed how. He "loved" his homeland so much that he called on the United States to war with that same homeland; good "love" cannot be said!
        How could he call to fight with the motherland? Do you even know what the homeland is? Most likely not, just write such nonsense. He did not call for war with the Motherland, and how is it even possible? You will first study these words and what it means.
        Well, what traitors themselves, such are your “heroes” ...
        No, it’s with you. When writing about the heroism of the Reds, whom you betrayed and continue to do so now.
        1. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 11: 11 New
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          SERGEY SERGEEVICS (SERGEY SERGEEVICS)
          How could he call to fight with the motherland?
          Well, yes, you have the concept of homeland, it seems where it is warmer? For me, the motherland is where he was born! And Denikin was born in RI, which then became the USSR, but this is the MOTHERLAND! And he called on the United States to war with Russia-the USSR. Or was the wrong people living in the USSR and you think you can destroy it? But our crystal-bakers have good concepts, always their people are not the same. That is why these people went after the Bolsheviks, and not after your crunchy selling garbage.
          1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS 7 November 2019 11: 52 New
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            Well, yes, you have the concept of homeland, it seems where it is warmer?
            It’s you who are writing to yourself now and don’t know the whole meaning of these words.
            Or was the wrong people living in the USSR and you think you can destroy it?
            And what did not the people live in the Tsarist Empire who cleaned out cleanly, but who managed to survive, then they were sent to the camps?
            And Denikin was born in RI, which then became the USSR, but this is the MOTHERLAND!
            You hear what you are talking and writing about. How can you fight with land, forest? He probably called on the Bolsheviks to demolish, and not fight against land and forest.
            But our crystal-bakers have good concepts, always their people are not the same.
            And what are your ideas when they drove their people to camps, which were for the Reds, they fought for you, and then they were written off unnecessarily.
            That is why these people went after the Bolsheviks, and not after your crunchy selling garbage.
            The people went to go for the Bolsheviks, and then the Bolsheviks paid them for this with camps and executions.
            1. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 12: 03 New
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              SERGEY SERGEEVICS (SERGEY SERGEEVICS)
              And what are your ideas when they drove their people to camps, which were for the Reds, they fought for you, and then they were written off unnecessarily.

              The people went to go for the Bolsheviks, and then the Bolsheviks paid them for this with camps and executions.
              Well, then everything is clear to me and not interesting to you. Regular liberal cliches about camps and other nonsense ...
              It you
              Not respected, I with YOU did not drink on brudershaft, and I will not sit down on one hectare.
              1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS 7 November 2019 12: 29 New
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                Well, then everything is clear to me and not interesting to you. Regular liberal cliches about camps and other nonsense ...
                That is the point, that you are the very liberal who is hiding behind the Bolsheviks and the USSR in order to write this pretext and write that everything is bad and terrible here.
                Not respected, I with YOU did not drink on brudershaft, and I will not sit down on one hectare.
                With people like you, only you, even this one, will have a lot for you. And you can leave these show-offs for yourself. You still have not earned my respect to stick out, so sit on your hectare and you will always be on you.
                1. Alexander Suvorov 7 November 2019 12: 41 New
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                  SERGEY SERGEEVICS (SERGEY SERGEEVICS) You have not earned my respect yet to give up, so sit on your hectare and you will always be on you.
                  Well, the culture of the bakers is rushing out of all the cracks, but how about white bone, blue blood, the color of the nation, so to speak, yes mr? Only here, comrade Lenin very accurately said about you that the Russian intelligentsia is not the color of the nation, but the ram of the nation, and you are all so noble and intelligent, aren't you?
                  1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS 7 November 2019 12: 56 New
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                    How so! your words are written
                    Well, then everything is clear to me and not interesting to you.
                    Besides the fact that in socialism you do not understand, you also refute your own words. laughing Oh well.
                    Well, the culture of the bakers is rushing out of all the cracks, but how about white bone, blue blood, the color of the nation, so to speak, yes mr?
                    According to the documents, they yes, many in the Tsarist Empire were considered white bone, they were Russian, why they had to be completely cleaned and sent to camps, if many of them went voluntarily to the Reds.
                    Only here, comrade Lenin very accurately said about you that the Russian intelligentsia is not the color of the nation, but the ram of the nation, and you are all so noble and intelligent, aren't you?
                    He said a lot of things and what is the use of it, if they destroyed their own country. And now you liberals are hiding this to say and reproach that everything is bad and terrible here.
                  2. abc_alex 7 November 2019 20: 36 New
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                    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                    Only now, comrade Lenin very accurately said about you that the Russian intelligentsia is not the color of the nation


                    Well, why generalize? In general, Lenin did not mean the whole Russian intelligentsia, but absolutely specific individuals with a completely clear position. We read in a letter to Gorky:


                    It is wrong to confuse the intellectual forces of the “people with the“ forces ”of the bourgeois intellectuals. I will take Korolenko as their sample: I recently read it, written in August 1917, the brochure “War, Fatherland and Humanity”. After all, Korolenko is the best of the "okolokadetsky", almost a Menshevik. And what a vile, vile, vile defense of the imperialist war, covered by sugary phrases! A miserable tradesman, captivated by bourgeois prejudice! For such gentlemen, 10 killed in the imperialist war is a matter worthy of support (by deeds, with sugary phrases “against” the war), and the deaths of hundreds of thousands in a just civil war against landowners and capitalists cause aah, ooh, sigh, hysteria.

                    No. It is not a sin for such “talents” to spend weeks in jail if this is necessary to prevent conspiracies (like Krasnaya Gorka) and the deaths of tens of thousands. And we discovered these conspiracies of the Cadets and the "okolokadet". And we know that the near-cadet professors give help to the conspirators all the time. It is a fact.

                    The intellectual forces of the workers and peasants are growing and gaining strength in the struggle to overthrow the bourgeoisie and its accomplices, intellectuals, and lackeys of capital, who consider themselves to be the brains of the nation. In fact, it is not the brain, but g ...

                    To “intellectual forces” who want to carry science to the people (rather than serve the capital), we pay a salary above the average. It is a fact. We protect them. ”
  • Yaik Cossack 7 November 2019 17: 53 New
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    at the forefront of the attack were the officer regiments - Kuban, Ossetian, Kabardian

    Which of the "Ossetian" regiments was an officer? How many were there?
    In fact, the "Ossetian officer regiment" did not exist during this period ...

    This specific piece and the subsequent A. Samsonov in the sense borrowed from a certain Shambarov ("White Guard") - a well-known confusion.
    What is the point of once again giving a summary of secondary and amateurish works with an insane amount of errors and inaccuracies? Fee?
  • Boozer 7 November 2019 18: 17 New
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    Thanks to the author for the detailed article, but could you please publish something about the Turkestan and Aktobe fronts ...
    1. Yaik Cossack 7 November 2019 18: 39 New
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      Shambarov has already written about this))))
      It’s true that at least stand, at least fall. But fans of the secondary product like it, they ask for supplements)))
  • Yaik Cossack 7 November 2019 20: 24 New
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    I read a discussion here, had fun. Most are chegevars in half with schors, lovers of Soviet antiquity and whispers of whites. You feel right at the congress of the CPSU, it is filled with pride from the Leninist University of millions. But white ones, white ones, but Soviet ... hoo.

    Only where in the 1991 year did all these Soviet patriots, coupled with the 5 millionth army and the 1.5 million KGB Ministry of Internal Affairs, go when three drunken men ... easily eliminated the country in front of the 20 millionth party? Have the party members read Bebel's correspondence with Kautsky or stood in line for detergent? What was a country that is so easy to destroy.

    After the Bolshevik coup d'état for national Russia (and not at all for the monarchy) whites went to fight against international utopia, they were not afraid to enter the fight, they were in the minority, but the war went on for almost 4 of the year, and for the Soviet power in 1991 there was no against traitors even a maaalenky partisan detachment. Well, at least the awful Chapaev or Felix Edmundych.
    And this is the verdict of history. Final. Do not believe it - ask Zyuganov)))) And the shock on the Internet now, after giving up the fight then - is just a subject for studying the hysterical complexes of the post-Soviet society.
    1. Alexander Greene 7 November 2019 21: 51 New
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      Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
      After the Bolshevik coup d'état for national Russia (and not at all for the monarchy) whites went to fight against international utopia, they were not afraid to enter the fight, they were in the minority, but the war went on for almost 4 of the year, and for the Soviet power in 1991 there was no against traitors even a maaalenky partisan detachment. Well, at least the awful Chapaev or Felix Edmundych.

      The whites fought for their privileges, for their private property, which the Soviet government nationalized. Because of their greed, during the 4 of the Civil War, they destroyed the entire infrastructure of Russia and killed a lot of people.

      In 1991, there were Soviet people, there were communists who were against the coup, but they understood that the mass consciousness of the Soviet people was ready for this, they had been bullied since perestroika.

      And what to do when the majority of the people succumbed to this intoxication? Start a war against the people, how white? Destroy the entire infrastructure again and destroy a lot of people?
      Do terror?

      No, these are not communist methods. The Communists understood that the dark masses were learning from their own experience. And indeed, the peoples of all the former republics of the USSR have already understood today. how they got involved with privatization. So you hurried with the verdict. The class struggle is still flaring up.
      1. Olgovich 8 November 2019 11: 34 New
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        Quote: Alexander Green
        No, these are not communist methods. The Communists understood that the dark masses were learning from their own experience.

        70 years of your teachings and everything ... dark ?! belay lol laughing
        1. Alexander Greene 8 November 2019 17: 19 New
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          Quote: Olgovich
          70 years of your teachings and all ... dark?

          But you forgot how you and your supporters brought down a bunch of slander and lies on the people and offered a "sweet" life in the West. Then whoever you want the wing to go.
          1. Olgovich 9 November 2019 07: 50 New
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            Quote: Alexander Green
            But you forgot how you and your supporters brought down a bunch of slander and lies on the people and offered a "sweet" life in the West. Then whoever you want the wing to go.

            You did not answer the question: have you been able to raise DARK people in 70 years?
            Shame ....
            1. Alexander Greene 9 November 2019 11: 18 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              You did not answer the question: have you been able to raise DARK people in 70 years?

              And they could, and brought up, and defeated the open enemy in the war, and many gave their lives for the Soviet Motherland, but the unfinished enemies of the Soviet government, who sat in the gaps or in the Gulag, remained alive and then transferred all their hatred of the Soviet system to their descendants which, by the time of perestroika, had bred like cockroaches, climbed into all the structures of a co-state, poured all their nonsense on the Soviet people, destroyed the state, seized public property, and pursued a policy of extinction of the common people.
              1. Olgovich 9 November 2019 13: 03 New
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                Quote: Alexander Green
                And they could, and brought up, and defeated the open enemy in the war, and many gave their lives for the Soviet Motherland

                That you called the people DARK-forgotten already ?! Respond for your words!

                People fought for the MOTHERLAND. And when it was necessary for the "advice" to fight, nobody got up. 1991
                Quote: Alexander Green
                who stayed in the crevices or in the Gulag, survived and then transferred all their hatred of the Soviet system to their descendants, who by the time of perestroika had expanded like cockroaches, climbed into all the structures of the state of conscience, poured all their nonsense on the Soviet people, destroyed the state, seized the state public property, and pursue a policy of extinction of the common people.

                Yeah. The beaten debris- bred and won, and the Unbroken rightful communists, under ideal conditions of THEIR regime .....- died and wounded together. lol
                WHAT do you have with logic? lol
                1. Alexander Greene 9 November 2019 16: 16 New
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                  Quote: Olgovich
                  That you called the people DARK-forgotten already ?!

                  Your thinking is too straightforward, it feels that you have crammed geometry, so you cannot understand the dialectics of rebirth and the shift of the mass consciousness of the people towards bourgeois ideology. With this kind of thinking, you don’t see yet another shift in thought towards socialist ideas, so you will again oversleep your end.
                  1. Olgovich 10 November 2019 07: 26 New
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                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Your thinking is too straightforward, it feels that you have crammed geometry, so you cannot understand the dialectics of rebirth and the shift of the mass consciousness of the people towards bourgeois ideology. With this kind of thinking, you don’t see yet another shift in thought towards socialist ideas, so you will again oversleep your end.

                    Empty BLADDER in response to SPECIFIC facts:
                    1 .. The beaten derelicts- bred and won, and the Unbeaten rightful communists, under ideal conditions of THEIR regime .....- died and fled.
                    2. For the homeland people fought. And when it was necessary for the "advice" to fight, nobody got up. 1991
                    3. You HAVORATED the whole nation, calling it ... DARK (when he sent you on)
                    1. Alexander Greene 10 November 2019 08: 29 New
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                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Empty BLADDER in response to SPECIFIC facts:

                      I already wrote to you that because of your straightforward thinking, you are not able to understand the dialectical development of society. I sympathize with you, but I can’t help with anything, learn dialectics, I don’t like Marxist-Leninist, learn from Hegel.
                      1. Olgovich 10 November 2019 10: 20 New
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                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        I already wrote to you that by virtue of your straightforward thinking, you are not able to understand the dialectical development of society.

                        Your curvilinear thinking allows you to answer idle talk to direct specific questions and think that you ... have successfully turned around.
                        Funny, right! yes
                      2. Alexander Greene 10 November 2019 12: 04 New
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                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Funny right

                        Laughing for no reason is a sign of foolishness. Folk wisdom
                      3. Olgovich 11 November 2019 07: 03 New
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                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Laughter without a reason - a sign of foolishness. Folk wisdom

                        And UNDERSTAND it -You are not given, alas ....
                      4. Alexander Greene 11 November 2019 20: 17 New
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                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And UNDERSTAND it -You are not given, alas ....

                        In order to understand your reason, you need to lie down in ward number 6.
  • Yaik Cossack 7 November 2019 22: 10 New
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    Quote: Alexander Green
    The whites fought for their privileges, for their private property, which the Soviet government nationalized. Because of their greed, during the 4 of the Civil War, they destroyed the entire infrastructure of Russia and killed a lot of people.


    It seems to me that the study of spelling should precede more complex subjects, right?
    And did White want universal suffrage as its narrow privilege?
    1. Alexander Greene 8 November 2019 17: 30 New
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      Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
      And did whites want universal suffrage as their narrow privilege?

      And what does that change? The main thing for them was privileges and property, i.e. who has the property and power and privileges. and the people have general elections, so that they choose a master who will have their stretch for several years. What are we, for example, observing everywhere today? ..
  • Yaik Cossack 7 November 2019 22: 13 New
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    Quote: Alexander Green
    In 1991, there were Soviet people, there were communists who were against the coup, but they understood that the mass consciousness of the Soviet people was ready for this, they had been bullied since perestroika. And what to do when the majority of the people succumbed to this intoxication? Start a war against the people, how white? Destroy the entire infrastructure again and destroy a lot of people? Do terror?


    You are a genius! This is a new word in the theory of the proletarian revolution! It turns out that Marxists are always ready to abandon the revolution if someone does not agree with them. Bernstein is resting.
    It is true what to do with the fact that the Bolsheviks in the elections to the Constituent Assembly were supported by a minority, but they nonetheless boldly decided on a coup and started a civil war? This somehow does not fit with your theoretical contribution to the theory of the proletarian revolution, do not you? The majority in 1917 did not succumb to Bolshevik fervor, it is a fact. But this did not bother the real revolutionaries.
    1. Alexander Greene 8 November 2019 17: 44 New
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      Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
      This is a new word in the theory of the proletarian revolution! It turns out that Marxists are always ready to abandon the revolution if someone does not agree with them. Bernstein is resting.
      It is true what to do with the fact that the Bolsheviks in the elections to the Constituent Assembly were supported by a minority, but they nonetheless boldly decided on a coup and started a civil war? This somehow does not fit with your theoretical contribution to the theory of the proletarian revolution, do not you?


      You do not know Marxism very well. In such cases, your like-minded Odgievich sends you to school, but I will send you to work V.I. Lenin (PSS, T.30, S.282), where he writes. that for the victory of the socialist revolution it is necessary to have the sympathy of the masses. And in 1991, the heads of the people were drugged by the sweet promises of the liberals to get rich without working, so they sympathized with Yeltsin, who was thrown off the bridge.
  • Yaik Cossack 7 November 2019 22: 15 New
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    Quote: Alexander Green
    So you hurried with the verdict. The class struggle is still flaring up.


    Well, how are the successes of the class struggle with the 1991 of the year expanding and growing? When to wait for a socialist revolution? Is the armored car ready for Zyuganov? Ulyanov had a party, but do you have one? Or are you writing from Geneva?
    1. Alexander Greene 8 November 2019 17: 46 New
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      Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
      So how has the success of the class struggle since 1991 been expanding and growing? When to wait for a socialist revolution?

      Everything has its time, take care of the budennovka ....
  • Yaik Cossack 7 November 2019 22: 28 New
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    Quote: Alexander Green
    In 1991, there were Soviet people, there were communists who were against the coup, but they understood that the mass consciousness of the Soviet people was ready for this, they had been bullied since perestroika.

    Your will, I would like to believe you, but here is some kind of nonsense. Inconsistency. Soviet consciousness was built from 1917 years, more than 70 years. The hostile classes were destroyed, the valiant Chekists who were needed and not needed to be shot, life became better, life became more fun, and here you are .... for some 3-4 years of perestroika everything went to pieces. And without repression and intervention ... But what about the party, the KGB and the faithful sons of the fatherland? They all become traitors?
    But what about the most correct and advanced science of Marxism? She believed that socialism had finally won, it was a more advanced formation and there were no conditions for the restoration of capitalism.
    1. Alexander Greene 8 November 2019 17: 50 New
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      Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
      Your will, I would like to believe you, but here is some kind of nonsense

      To this concept, do not be too lazy to read the link:
      https://pkbu.ucoz.ru/publ/6-1-0-86
  • Anmamalia 8 November 2019 22: 14 New
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    Without politics, just finishing touches to the portrait of Denikin’s family, in the city of Azov in 1919-1920 there was a concentration camp for captured Red Army soldiers, where about 20 thousand people died from hunger, cold, and disease, and the wild detachment of Mr. Ikaev cleaned up the city - he hung up without information and consequences and it is not clear why several citizens
  • VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK 11 November 2019 13: 57 New
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    White simply did not have a single command: Denikin in the south, Kolchak in Siberia. Yes, and the final goals after the victory were different. Often they did not coordinate their offensives. And the Red Army won due to April and deception. How many peasants fought in the Red Army. They believed the land to the peasants, the factories of the workers. What did the peasants then have? Even passports were taken away until Khrushchev’s time. If they knew the poor.