Opponents of the legalization of "gunshot" have new arguments after the shooting of the military in Transbaikalia

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For tomorrow, November 6, a meeting is scheduled between Salim Shamsutdinov and his son, who is in the pre-trial detention center as the main person involved in the case of the shooting of servicemen in one of the parts of Transbaikalia.

Opponents of the legalization of "gunshot" have new arguments after the shooting of the military in Transbaikalia




Recall that we are talking about the drama that unfolded in the military unit 25 on October, when a conscript soldier Ramil Shamsutdinov shot 8 other soldiers of the same unit, including two officers. Two more were injured and were sent to the hospital.

Salim Shamsutdinov previously commented on the description of his son, published with reference to the investigation, which states that during the service he was conflicted, aggressive, intolerant of forms of subordination. The father of the serviceman Shamsutdinov said that all this does not correlate with the nature of his son and that in a strange way, no commission revealed any aggressive signs of behavior in his son before he was called up for military service. Recall that earlier Shamsutdinov Jr. applied for admission to the military school.

The very case of the shooting of servicemen in Transbaikalia became the reason for new conversations about whether it makes sense to legalize gunshot weapons in Russia. Opponents of legalization of the so-called "short-barrel" use the described case for their own purposes. In particular, it is noted that if a soldier who has the right to carry firearms, who has passed a number of medical commissions, can rip off the roof, then in the civilian environment there will be many dubious individuals who will have access to weapons, and when in their heads “Something closes”, they also decide to use it immediately - for example, against offenders or those with whose opinion they disagree.

A case in Transbaikalia is used by opponents of the legalization of the “short-barreled” and in terms of this kind of logic: other military personnel, including officers, also had weapons, but the moment for the actual execution was chosen in such a way that they simply could not dispose of it - played a role surprise factor. Representatives of the side of the opponents of the legalization of short-barreled weapons in Russia continue the idea: if citizens have the opportunity to keep weapons at home, does this mean that in case of an emergency they will have time to dispose of them for self-defense?

Meanwhile, the investigation into the high-profile case of the massacre of servicemen in Transbaikalia continues.
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  1. +67
    5 November 2019 17: 42
    The point is not the legalization or prohibition of civilian weapons, the fact is that they have long been in full possession of scumbags, with the absolute impotence of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in all areas of activity. And all these conversations, if he had a gun ... in favor of the poor.
    1. Alf
      +46
      5 November 2019 17: 44
      Quote: MoJloT
      The point is not the legalization or prohibition of civilian weapons, the fact is that their illegal weapons have long been in the hands of scumbags, with absolute impotence of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

      Among the policemen is also full of scumbags and inadequate. But, for some reason, the opponents of the short-barrel are not going to take it from them. Maybe because the opponents themselves are from the System?
      And I want to ask the opponents, how can shooting by servicemen relate to the legalization of citizens’s weapons?
      1. +26
        5 November 2019 17: 54
        Among the policemen is also full of scumbags and inadequate. But, for some reason, the opponents of the short-barrel are not going to take it from them.

        Basil hi - they are the support of the regime and the "blank" wall separating the chic "get-together" from the "always dissatisfied" people with something.
        The current government will never agree to legalize "firearms", because for it it will be a death sentence. People simply will not seek truth and protection in impartial and independent courts only on paper, but will resolve issues on the spot. And who in our country today behaves like a pig towards ordinary people with absolutely impunity? Right! wink
        1. Alf
          +4
          5 November 2019 17: 58
          Quote: lexus
          Vasily - they are the mainstay of the regime and the "blank" wall separating the chic "get-together" from the "always dissatisfied" people with something.

          good
          1. +30
            5 November 2019 18: 52
            If the short barrel is allowed, then the multi-fiscal collectors will be very shy to approach the doors of fellow citizens Yes
            1. +2
              5 November 2019 19: 43
              Quote: Stroporez
              If the short barrel is allowed, then the multi-fiscal collectors will be very shy to approach the doors of fellow citizens

              yes they won’t, use your own weapons and sit down
              1. +27
                5 November 2019 19: 44
                Quote: Barmaleyka
                yes they won’t, use your own weapons and sit down

                The scary thing is not the application itself, but the understanding that there is a probability of application.
                1. +13
                  5 November 2019 19: 47
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  The scary thing is not the application itself, but the understanding that there is a probability of application.

                  Yes?
                  so today I can take pitchforks and a thief to plant a dog on them or let a dog down, well, at worst, crack a melon with a brick, what do you think will happen to me after that? !!!!!
                  but the criminal knows in advance that he violates the law and he is in the drum, and I am limited to the actions of article 114, which protects the criminal better than any bronik
                  1. +14
                    5 November 2019 19: 54
                    Quote: Barmaleyka
                    and I am limited to the actions of article 114, which protects the criminal better than any bronik

                    There is a good saying: "it is better to have 12 judged than six incurred"
                    1. +4
                      5 November 2019 22: 17
                      Well, well, I think when you are breaking a dozen you will say well, in FIG I banged him
                      1. +1
                        6 November 2019 00: 52
                        Quote: Barmaleyka
                        Well, well, I think when you are breaking a dozen you will say well, in FIG I banged him

                        Yeah, and think about who would bring the cloves to your grave ....
              2. -1
                6 November 2019 03: 59
                YES NO ... The man with the "Bumblebee" will knock and open it yourself.
              3. +1
                6 November 2019 10: 40
                Quote: Barmaleyka
                Quote: Stroporez
                If the short barrel is allowed, then the multi-fiscal collectors will be very shy to approach the doors of fellow citizens

                yes they won’t, use your own weapons and sit down

                Even as they will, you can then put the knives in their hands, cut yourself a little anatomically correctly and stand on their own
            2. +12
              5 November 2019 21: 24
              Quote: Stroporez
              If the short barrel is allowed, then the multi-fiscal collectors will be very shy to approach the doors of fellow citizens Yes

              Nonsense ... The short-barrel is banned, but I have a 12-gauge Saiga in my safe, like many of my friends (I’m a hunter, there are those among my acquaintances who keep it for self-defense). By your logic, this does not bother the collectors, but they’ll be afraid of PMchik ...
              1. +3
                5 November 2019 21: 30
                Quote: raw174
                Quote: Stroporez
                If the short barrel is allowed, then the multi-fiscal collectors will be very shy to approach the doors of fellow citizens Yes

                Nonsense ... The short-barrel is banned, but I have a 12-gauge Saiga in my safe, like many of my friends (I’m a hunter, there are those among my acquaintances who keep it for self-defense). By your logic, this does not bother the collectors, but they’ll be afraid of PMchik ...

                I haven’t yet met a man in VO who wouldn’t have anything = anything in the safe Yes
                Just how collectors learn about it laughing
                1. +15
                  5 November 2019 21: 44
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  Just how collectors learn about it

                  And how do they know about having a short one? In the same way, the probability is simply great ... Do not arm, it is empty, you need to expand the limits of permissible self-defense, but reasonably and carefully ...
                  1. 0
                    5 November 2019 22: 23
                    Quote: raw174
                    It is not necessary to arm, it is empty, it is necessary to expand the limits of permissible self-defense, but reasonably and carefully ...

                    Perhaps I would very much agree ..... besides, after the army of 10 years I could not look at the weapon at all, it was so sick of it ... But after surviving the 90s, the beginning of the zero, I firmly believe that the trunk is a very good argument, the larger the better good As they say in small "it's better to cut down the front sight !!! wassat Howitzers and anti-aircraft guns do not offer drinks
                    [media = https: //youtu.be/tPFOI-pCTOAhttp: //]
                2. +5
                  5 November 2019 21: 45
                  Quote: Stroporez

                  I haven’t yet met a man in VO who wouldn’t have anything = anything in the safe

                  So I will be the first. It was, in his youth, dabbled in hunting, TOZ-54, but .., sold, - a bird, and not only, it became a pity.
                3. +7
                  6 November 2019 00: 48
                  I haven’t yet met a man in VO who wouldn’t have anything = anything in the safe


                  Bah, Stroporez ... I don’t have it. Not only the trunk, but also no safe. And the desire to go to the store for bread with a barrel, looking around and looking around everyone, too, no. You go nafig with your bogeyman, short and long barrel. Go to South Africa, now everything is possible there. Pull yourself up to your fill.
                  1. -5
                    6 November 2019 01: 30
                    Quote: dauria
                    Bah, Stroporez ... I don’t have it.

                    Here you are, Colleague and have passed the test good the pros cons count later wink
                    By the way, from what kind of run up to the bullous did you suddenly come up with the idea of ​​how I will start to look at you through the slot of the sight? And isn’t there some kind of scraper who got drunk on the bayars, has an irresistible desire to fill your head with empty glass containers, thereby capturing your string bag, shoes, hat and purse?
                    Quote: dauria
                    Go to South Africa, now everything is possible there. Pull yourself up to your fill.

                    I didn’t expect from you .... I already walked up with different full-time and freelance gunshots .... enough for two lives and South Africa I now need only from the point of view of a traveler hi
                    1. +4
                      6 November 2019 01: 40
                      . I already walked up with a different firearm

                      Well, what the hell is there to tear a throat for a short barrel? I don’t want to do his job for the state - to plant and shoot bandits in cells. Under the Union, neither steel doors nor window grilles. The entrances wide open, in villages without castles. Well, you’ll get a hare in dancing, not without it. At the other end of the city, in a drunken brawl, they will kill someone for once - so the grandmothers at the entrance half a year gossip.
                      And so a whole year went crazy when he returned. Enough of it.
                      1. +9
                        6 November 2019 02: 16
                        Quote: dauria
                        Well, what the hell is there to tear a throat for a short barrel?

                        Comrade, where did I tear my throat? In this case, I am neutrality, although more "for" than "against", because in skillful hands there is a balalaika bolt, and in inept hands a balalaika is a bolt!
                        I remember everything about youth in the USSR and about dances, motorized teams, student teams and fights in village clubs, when they were with stakes and chains, and we with fists, there were a lot of yushki, but I don’t remember about the murders in the villages or in my native city, although youth was NORMAL!
                        The first killed in my life I saw after the Kabul transfer at the airfield, when the turntable, without landing on the chassis, dropped several, as it seemed, bags ... We were ordered to accept and we "accepted" .... as now I remember four of them, three all in bandages and bloodshed, count without a uniform, only vests, and the fourth ... all neat, only with a hole, exactly between the eyebrows .... They took them to the hospital cart and everyone immediately understood .. where we "arrived" ..Then, over the course of a year, eight months and eighteen days, I saw a lot of things and beds in tents "in white" tucked in with berets on pillows .., twice the Kabul hospital and the watchmen were shot down, since even the crew of the eight was rescued, only those first ones never forget ....
                        I tell you for 10 years I could not look at a weapon ... Then it came that I could not defend my family from 3-5 scum, this is not a movie, I would die myself, but no, I could not! And since the state is a gangster, it is difficult for a "balonka" to live with wolves ..
                        So you understand, chi neither?
                      2. +2
                        6 November 2019 04: 41
                        Okay, don’t be angry. This is me, for the rest ...
                        What city did you choose to live life? Can’t you really fall asleep right there without a gun?
                      3. +2
                        6 November 2019 13: 26
                        dauria (Alexey) So, what insults can be between fellow soldiers. drinks
                        Just exchanged views good
                      4. 0
                        6 November 2019 09: 18
                        Quote: dauria
                        Well, what the hell is there to tear a throat for a short barrel? I don’t want to do his job for the state - to plant and shoot bandits in cells.

                        Then why don't you want to force the state to do its job? Everything suits me? And there is no need to idealize the USSR in this area. Yes, there were few firearms on hand, but there was a lot of thugs "romance" and the inhabitants of at least the same Caucasus willingly used knives against the Russians.
                      5. +1
                        9 November 2019 15: 40
                        It depends on where and when. I myself am rural and I remember that we always closed the doors. This is in the children's film: "Aniskin and Fantômas" was not started, but in our country, alas: they locked up and locked themselves up for the night and untied the dogs
              2. 0
                6 November 2019 04: 02
                It's scary to look at a 12-gauge hunting Vepr with a long magazine .. But here really the PM or TT drives you into horror. Yes, a semiautomatic machine with a "Boar" can destroy the floor of the house until the pistol fires the clip. One hundred percent.
              3. +2
                6 November 2019 07: 40
                Nonsense ... The short-barrel is banned, but I have a 12-gauge Saiga in my safe, like many of my friends (I’m a hunter, there are those among my acquaintances who keep it for self-defense). By your logic, this does not bother the collectors, but they’ll be afraid of PMchik ...



                Can you protect your life or private property with the help of a hunting rifle without breaking the law? Permission of a short-barrel for self-defense requires the processing of the entire legislative framework, but if I think so, and Pmchik will self-defense from collectors and other evil spirits.
                1. +2
                  6 November 2019 12: 17
                  Quote: krops777
                  Can you protect your life or private property with the help of a hunting rifle without breaking the law? Permission of a short-barrel for self-defense requires the processing of the entire legislative framework, but if I think so, and Pmchik will self-defense from collectors and other evil spirits.

                  Well said good
              4. 0
                6 November 2019 10: 42
                Quote: raw174
                Quote: Stroporez
                If the short barrel is allowed, then the multi-fiscal collectors will be very shy to approach the doors of fellow citizens Yes

                Nonsense ... The short-barrel is banned, but I have a 12-gauge Saiga in my safe, like many of my friends (I’m a hunter, there are those among my acquaintances who keep it for self-defense). By your logic, this does not bother the collectors, but they’ll be afraid of PMchik ...

                And you open them with a barrel in their hands and follow the reaction
            3. +2
              5 November 2019 22: 25
              Quote: Stroporez
              If the short barrel is allowed, then the multi-fiscal collectors will be very shy to approach the doors of fellow citizens

              Behind the doors is not forbidden now "long-barreled", which will be more severe in every way. AND?
              1. +1
                6 November 2019 00: 02
                80% of the short-barreled wounded remain alive. In the case of shotgun wounds, the probability of survival is reduced to 10%.


                And more dangerous for you.

                80% of the short-barreled wounded remain alive. In the case of shotgun wounds, the probability of survival is reduced to 10%.
            4. +5
              5 November 2019 23: 27
              Weapons are responsibility, not the right of offended and losers to be masters of the universe.
              1. +1
                5 November 2019 23: 46
                Is this all that was said to? Here, are the children arguing about the cubes in the sandbox? negative
                1. +5
                  6 November 2019 04: 11
                  Are you really one of those
                  then thinks it is worth allowing the "short barrel", and immediately everything will be fine? Officials will stop stealing, people will respect each other? Who thumped that immediately change and become a teetotaler? Or from those who believe that the "short barrel" gives you the right to kill who, in your opinion, looked at you disrespectfully, or decided to disagree with your only correct point of view?
                  1. +1
                    6 November 2019 11: 16
                    I do not think that legalizing a short barrel is a panacea. If to kill everyone who is somehow unclean, then in the country there will soon be no population left. Those who thumped and thumped do not need a short barrel; they are already perfectly dispensed with kitchen knives.
                    Regarding the fact that a short barrel allegedly "gives someone the right to kill": well, exactly the same right is given to a kitchen noch, an ax, hunting and sporting weapons. That is why there is a medical commission to identify all kinds of inadequacies, but, you know, it does not give a XNUMX% guarantee.
                    You are here, in some way, personally switch arrows on me, but in vain, I do not need a short barrel, I have enough guns. But another thing revolts me: why in some huffed-up America any citizen can afford a short barrel if he wants, and some restrictions are imposed on me, a normal person who has served in the army. It degrades. So entrusting me with a tank for three years in the army is normal, but letting me buy a pocket bag doesn't? This is insanity of power and an insult to people.
                    I repeat, I don’t need anyone a short trunk. hi
                    1. +1
                      6 November 2019 12: 13
                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      buy a pocket bag

                      That's why I am against short-barreled weapons. You spoke respectfully about the tank ...
            5. +1
              6 November 2019 00: 15
              Quote: Stroporez
              If the short barrel is allowed, then the multi-fiscal collectors will be very shy to approach the doors of fellow citizens Yes
              -And who will suffer from this? Right-citizens ..... Surprise? not....
              It’s just that banks will stop giving loans to the most unsecured and the middle class, to two categories where loan defaults are greatest .....
            6. -1
              6 November 2019 01: 47
              When these creatures find out who lives outside the door - they are already tensing to come up! They only gas on normal and normal! And on the "unusual" - they are afraid! And bestial fear !!! I hate these scum!
            7. +1
              6 November 2019 12: 10
              Or the collectors themselves will squeeze money out of citizens with weapons laughing
            8. +1
              6 November 2019 13: 00
              Quote: Stroporez
              If the short barrel is allowed, then the multi-fiscal collectors will be very shy to approach the doors of fellow citizens

              And that he (the collector) will be shy, he will also have a trunk, and if applied, the collector will be right because he will use his weapon only in response to a citizen’s shot. Therefore, if a collector does not shoot a citizen in response, then he will get to the full extent and will collect debts from him, and he will be spent on treatment, and he will also receive a term. And the term will be considerable since the article provides for such an aggravating circumstance as murder in the performance of victims' professional activities.
        2. -4
          5 November 2019 18: 39
          or maybe for the reason that it is not necessary from the word at all?
        3. +23
          5 November 2019 18: 40
          Yes, there’s not even a brawl, but a mess in the division of responsibility between the attacker and the defender. My work colleague in 2005 beat off 2 robbers at the cost of his broken nose. After 2 weeks, he was summoned to the police station, allegedly, he killed a man. It turns out that one of the attackers took off the beatings and rolled the cart. And my colleague on old events collected medical certificates and proved that he was not a deer, and fought off two in this wasteland.
          1. +13
            5 November 2019 20: 20
            I also had a case: he took out a stick and swung to hit me on the head, I dodged and knocked him out. In court they asked: did you get hit on the head? I answered no! The court decided that I was to blame, because they didn’t hit on the head. He asked: and if he shot at me and didn’t hit, then what?
            1. +9
              5 November 2019 21: 38
              Quote: mig29mks
              In court they asked: did you get hit on the head? I answered no! The court decided that I was to blame, because they didn’t hit my head

              This is because you (as a large part of our population) are not legally literate, and you did not want to fork out for a lawyer. Therefore, on the applicant, all polls resort to the help of a lawyer. Are you accused of 6.1.1 of the Code of Administrative Offenses? It could have been avoided if you built the defense on the statement that you violated the Code of Administrative Offenses because you were really afraid for your life at that moment, the attacker was armed with an object and expressed a threat to you. Moreover, 119 of the Criminal Code does not objectively shine for him, but 90% would have justified you, well, or there are still circumstances that we do not know here.
              But in general, I am against the legalization of the short-barrel, but I believe that we need a significant expansion of the limits of permissible self-defense.
              1. +1
                5 November 2019 21: 54
                Quote: raw174
                But in general, I am against the legalization of the short-barrel, but I believe that we need a significant expansion of the limits of permissible self-defense.

                and rightly, otherwise the nerds will run around with a weak psyche and a gun at the ready, and if you give him a hit on the head, they’ll put you in prison
          2. +7
            5 November 2019 20: 47
            The media is full of examples that we can go to jail for resisting bandits.
            1. +4
              6 November 2019 00: 03
              The media is full of examples that we can go to jail for resisting bandits.


              In 2008, in the Moscow Region, according to the regional department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, citizens used traumatic weapons 30 times for self-defense, and each similar case was recognized as legal by law enforcement agencies. According to police lieutenant general Alexander Gurov, in Moscow annually, traumatic weapons are used for self-defense more than 500 times. At the same time, according to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, no more than 5 people were killed (including cases of suicide and self-defense) from traumatic weapons throughout the country over the past 100 years. Thus, even an imperfect traumatic weapon more often saves lives than destroys them.
            2. +2
              6 November 2019 00: 17
              Quote: Qwertyarion
              The media is full of examples that we can go to jail for resisting bandits.
              - more examples in the media of rudeness on the roads, for example ..
            3. +1
              6 November 2019 08: 33
              And how many examples in the media about how to close such cases before the trial, due to the lack of corpus delicti? The media are not interested in such things and their order is 80 percent.
            4. +1
              6 November 2019 10: 56
              Quote: Qwertyarion
              The media is full of examples that we can go to jail for resisting bandits.

              Better in jail than in a coffin
              1. 0
                6 November 2019 11: 41
                It’s never too late in the coffin, but you have to fight for life to the end.
            5. +1
              6 November 2019 11: 16
              There was a case in St. Petersburg several years ago. The brother walked the dog, and the man and his son made him a remark about the lack of a muzzle. He let the dog down, which eventually got, as it turned out, from the karateka. Then the brother pulled out a pistol and started shooting. The karatist killed a bandit in a fight. The court went on for several years, they wrote a petition for the peasant, although it is clear that it was self-defense. However, here is a quote from the site of the Investigation Committee: "In St. Petersburg, a local resident is suspected of killing a man who walked the dog without a leash and muzzle
              The investigative authorities of the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation in St. Petersburg have opened a criminal case against a local resident suspected of committing a crime under Part 1 of Art. 105 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (murder). According to the investigation, on the morning of July 21, 2012, the suspect, who was walking with his young son on the territory of the Krasnoselsky district, made a remark to the man who was walking the dog - a Staffordshire Terrier without a leash and muzzle. In response, the 40-year-old owner of the dog used foul language at the man and, taking out a TT combat pistol, fired at his feet. Then a fight ensued between the men, during which the attacker hit the owner of the dog several times on the head and body. The victim died from the received injuries. Currently, investigative actions and operational-search measures are being carried out aimed at establishing all the circumstances of the crime committed. The investigation of the criminal case continues. "
              1. 0
                6 November 2019 11: 54
                While we will practice the punishment of the victim of an attack for tough self-defense, the bandits will feel their protection at the legislative level
                (absurd, but such is reality)
          3. +1
            5 November 2019 20: 48
            It’s my fault. It was necessary to comply with the law - call the police, write a statement, remove injuries. It’s good that they didn’t make me guilty
          4. +6
            5 November 2019 21: 49
            Quote: Ural-4320
            My work colleague in 2005 beat off 2 robbers at the cost of his broken nose.

            Immediately the question, why did not he say? Robbery is a serious crime, why did you cover it? As the hospital explained a broken nose? After all, there is a cop when bodily ... Something darkens your friend ...
        4. 0
          5 November 2019 18: 49
          Lexus, you are close to the truth, but a small clarification: a complete ban on the possession of firearms was first introduced in 1961, and during EBN, there was talk about legalization
          1. +2
            5 November 2019 21: 15
            Quote: vladcub
            Lexus, you are close to the truth, but a small clarification: a complete ban on the possession of firearms, first introduced in 1961,

            Probably for this reason, the population has several million units of firearms in their arms? The ban was on rifled weapons, which the population was supposed to surrender and which only professional hunters were allowed to hunt. Yes, yes, there was such a profession at the councils.
        5. 0
          5 November 2019 21: 02
          Hmm .. and who is stopping you from making decisions "on the spot" today? wink In the country, several million legal trunks to buy a completely lethal firearm - you need a minimum of effort and about 40 rubles (the Kerch shooter will not let you lie). And somehow, by and large, there are no excesses, and the civilized SVD is in any way cooler than any pistol.
          Purely IMHO - gradually and the pestles will allow, just as recently they allowed to quietly relocate rifled cartridges and use carbines under pistol cartridges.
        6. +7
          5 November 2019 21: 27
          Quote: lexus
          The current government will never agree to legalize "firearms", because for it it will be a death sentence.

          The most ridiculous and baseless argument ... By your logic, if you allow the short-barrels, will everyone go to shoot the administration? Why don't they go with rifles, carbines?
          1. 0
            6 November 2019 08: 33
            The gun is more effective: he came to the administration of the homeless and takes out Magnum. It will be spectacular
            1. +1
              6 November 2019 21: 42
              Quote: vladcub
              The gun is more effective: he came to the administration of the homeless and takes out Magnum. It will be spectacular
              -will not come ... because he has no safe and permanent place of registration ....
              In glorious Estonia, he is only shining for up to three years for getting Magnum without threat to life and NOT conditionally
              1. 0
                8 November 2019 12: 58
                Well, I live in the south, and not in Estonia, and I have no idea what kind of order there is.
                Have you been there or do you know from the media?
                1. 0
                  8 November 2019 19: 26
                  Quote: vladcub
                  Well, I live in the south, and not in Estonia, and I have no idea what kind of order there is.
                  Have you been there or do you know from the media?
                  I read their legislation on weapons ... a very instructive reading ... puts brains in their place quickly - for those wishing to wave Magnum in public places

                  And at the same time - as soon as the opportunity arises to acquire a cop and the first people who have come to the administration with a pestle have the right to download - the officials will also buy the cop and begin to shoot such clever people. There are cameras, who pulled the first barrel - it’s clear ... pure self-defense ....
                  1. 0
                    9 November 2019 13: 23
                    Sorry, but I was going to go to the city hall tomorrow and wave there
                    1. 0
                      9 November 2019 13: 53
                      Quote: vladcub
                      Sorry, but I was going to go to the city hall tomorrow and wave there

                      Exceptionally quoted you .....
        7. +6
          5 November 2019 22: 12
          Quote: lexus
          The current government will never agree to legalize "firearms", because for it it will be a death sentence. People simply will not seek truth and protection in impartial and independent courts only on paper, but will resolve issues on the spot.

          For those who think in terms of lynching, legal weapons are simply worthless. Legal weapons may be needed only by those who are planning to be within the legal framework. You can also repair lynching with a kitchen knife. Legal weapons are needed precisely from those who prefer to "resolve issues on the spot"
        8. +7
          5 November 2019 22: 36
          Quote: lexus
          it will be a death sentence for her

          Isn't it funny yourself? What's the use of having weapons in every house? Will everyone rush to overthrow the government? "There are no real violent ones, so there are no leaders." You can't say more precisely.
        9. +6
          5 November 2019 22: 55
          Those who want to find the trunk will find it, illegally, what are you talking about!
        10. +1
          6 November 2019 01: 38
          No . I am against the legalization of the short-barrel simply because people like you will immediately begin to kill people by acquiring weapons. Moreover, you will kill people many times more than all organized and unorganized crime in the country. Not because you want to kill people, but simply because you are not adequate. A normal person now completely dispenses with a pistol and lives his whole life without the need for it. But if the cities are flooded with inadequate crowds with trunks, then the country will definitely turn into a battlefield. In the US, policemen massively kill unarmed people not because they want it, but because they are stupidly afraid. When everyone can have a barrel, the policeman would shoot better at any suspicion of a weapon than he would take the risk. In case of legalization, it will be the same with us.
          By the way, just the shooting in Transbaikalia is really an example of the fact that even an outwardly adequate guy can break away from external or internal reasons and begin to bring down real or imaginary offenders. This is a common thing. His colleagues, by the way, also had trunks, but they did not help them. Just because the shooter always has the right of the first shot. request
          1. +3
            6 November 2019 09: 34
            Quote: g1v2
            people like you will immediately begin to kill people by acquiring weapons. Moreover, you will kill people many times more than all organized and unorganized crime in the country. Not because you want to kill people, but simply because you are not adequate

            However. No way a remote psychiatrist was trying to find out. And even with the rights of the commission in full force.
          2. -1
            7 November 2019 04: 01
            You have shown very well with this comment your attitude towards fellow citizens, and to yourself the same. I do not think that it is worth it to openly demonstrate your own slavish psychology.
        11. +2
          6 November 2019 12: 24
          The evil power does not allow just anyone to buy weapons, while high-precision rifles such as "dusk" are being sold for hunting, from which even the snipers of the special forces will drool, this is so afraid the authorities.
      2. +34
        5 November 2019 17: 57
        In Estonia and Moldova, short-barrels are legalized. No surge in "firearms" crimes was noted.
        1. +14
          5 November 2019 20: 39
          After everyone OBLIGED to have firearms in the American city of Kennesaw, he turned from the most dangerous and criminal city into a city with an abnormally low level of violent crimes.
          1. +11
            5 November 2019 20: 52
            In essence, the bandit is not a warrior, he will attack only if he considers that the victim has no chance to fight back.
          2. +5
            5 November 2019 23: 26
            Quote: syndicalist
            After everyone OBLIGED to have firearms in the American city of Kennesaw, he turned from the most dangerous and criminal city into a city with an abnormally low level of violent crimes.

            That's just the laws! What is self-defense in the United States and in ours? I'm not even talking about a man (a freak on two legs), but if wolves or a bear or a lynx enter my yard, then everything is sad! Even with a gun, I can't use it! According to the law, only policemen can use weapons in the NP! If applied, I will be fined 50 tr and confiscated weapons! Of course this will not stop me, but the problems will be "over the roof"! Unfortunately, all the "lawmakers" live in Moscow! And the laws are molded "for themselves"!
          3. -3
            6 November 2019 00: 20
            Quote: syndicalist
            After everyone OBLIGED to have firearms in the American city of Kennesaw, he turned from the most dangerous and criminal city into a city with an abnormally low level of violent crimes.
            -In the USA it’s about 125 trunks on 100 people... Where to oblige even more ???
            fool fool
          4. +2
            6 November 2019 08: 18
            Once in the American town of Kennesaw OBLIGED everyone to have firearms

            If you didn’t buy a gun, they’ll shoot or life?
        2. 0
          6 November 2019 11: 05
          For a minute I imagined an Estonian at a high-speed shooting competition
      3. +10
        5 November 2019 18: 01
        Question to the very point.
        Why mix purple with hot?
        And about the medical commissions. We don’t know how the conscript goes through a medical examination? Including the mental state?
        1. Alf
          0
          5 November 2019 18: 06
          Quote: Chit
          And about the medical commissions.

          Before introducing a permit for free carrying-storage, it is necessary to restore order in the system for issuing permits for a short barrel.
          1. Only state commissions and God forbid the private trader, originally corrupt.
          2. The issuer of the permit, in case of unlawful use of the trunk, goes as an accomplice. And no conditions, only the real term.
          1. +26
            5 November 2019 18: 28
            Both items are marmalade pink snot, sorry. Point 1 - VVK is a government agency, and only smoke is taken by a pillar and criminal cases by a fountain. Paragraph 2-Then a commission of 100% of requests will be wrapped or workers will not be driven into these commissions. Do they need to be substituted for the term? The same adventurers will go, ready to take a chance and take on a paw. hi
            1. Alf
              0
              5 November 2019 18: 29
              Quote: Captive
              The same adventurers will go, ready to take a chance and take on a paw.

              After two or three cases of landings, issuing, real, 5 years, and even promoted in the media, will not be.
              1. +11
                5 November 2019 18: 34
                winked Well, then there will be no one to work in these commissions.
                1. Alf
                  -1
                  5 November 2019 18: 40
                  Quote: Captive
                  winked Well, then there will be no one to work in these commissions.

                  You’re just like Medvedev about the bureaucrat’s huge income, if we pay normally, then everyone will run away.
                  1. +11
                    5 November 2019 18: 51
                    Invalid comparison. It’s not necessary to be crazy to run into an article. And not always psycho-unstable can be detected. A person with a normal psyche can also commit a crime with a gun. And the psychiatrist with them to go under the article? Who wants to? winked
                2. Alf
                  +3
                  5 November 2019 18: 52
                  Quote: Captive
                  winked Well, then there will be no one to work in these commissions.

                  If it turns out that the realtor in the sale of the apartment was in conjunction with the organized crime group, he is seated. This is normal and no one has any questions. And for some reason, those who want to work as a notary do not get smaller.
                  1. Alf
                    0
                    5 November 2019 19: 14
                    Quote: Alf
                    If it turns out that the realtor in the sale of the apartment was in conjunction with the organized crime group, he is seated.

                    Does anyone disagree with this?
                    1. +1
                      6 November 2019 11: 12
                      Quote: Alf
                      Quote: Alf
                      If it turns out that the realtor in the sale of the apartment was in conjunction with the organized crime group, he is seated.

                      Does anyone disagree with this?

                      Because he’s an accomplice here, and these are two big differences
                  2. +8
                    5 November 2019 22: 04
                    Quote: Alf
                    If it turns out that the realtor in the sale of the apartment was in conjunction with the organized crime group, he is seated.

                    Because in this case there is a direct intent for the crime, and the one who issued the certificate does this without the intention of killing anyone by the recipient of the certificate. What kind of performance do you have? Are you 16 years old or something? I do not want to offend, but your comments smack of youthful maximalism.
                    1. Alf
                      -2
                      5 November 2019 22: 27
                      Quote: raw174
                      Your comments smack of youthful maximalism.

                      Of course, maximalism, but what about.
                      In our country, a little bit happened, so right away, ah, I didn’t know, ah, I didn’t think ..
                      You are put here not to distribute sweets, but weapons, and you must understand what your gouging and indifference can lead to. For some reason, the army doesn’t let anyone into the arms, even from a neighboring bunk.
                3. +3
                  5 November 2019 18: 53
                  Exactly. Then only a stick will have to be pushed into such a commission
          2. +37
            5 November 2019 18: 29
            The law on self-defense is needed first! normal!!! and only then everything that will flow from it ... wearing so wearing ... preliminary training means training ...
            1. Alf
              +12
              5 November 2019 18: 31
              Quote: d ^ Amir
              The law on self-defense is needed first! normal!!!

              I would put you a hundred pluses.
              1. +7
                5 November 2019 18: 36
                thanks of course, but in my opinion this is the first thing that needs to be done ... a lot of examples, after all ... then the case against the girl was opened which, with tailor scissors, fought off the rapist ... then ... it's full of ... stupid things .. .
            2. -7
              5 November 2019 19: 30
              Unfortunately, it won't work. Because training and wearing will cause a wonderful flurry of "tactical shooting" organizations and it will all cost very, very .. again, whoever has the loot will get an advantage. It's better if there is no one and cops to tear up like sidor goats for work .... maybe there will be progress, and so the slaughter will begin .... no one can drive a car normally, what kind of trunk is there ... responsibility for oneself your life and those around you 0.
              1. +3
                5 November 2019 20: 21
                we don’t have a normal car to drive, what kind of trunk is there ...

                Normally we drive cars. No worse than in Europe.
                And the fact that "whoever has the loot has the advantage" is still flourishing. What is visible on the roads of the country.
                That's just in the USA "God created people, and Colonel Colt made them equal", but in our country you can't make people equal ............
            3. +3
              5 November 2019 22: 08
              Quote: d ^ Amir
              The law on self-defense is needed first!

              Not a law, but amendments to the current Criminal Code, a resolution of the PVS of the Russian Federation will come down, expanding the limits of self-defense, but laws need not be created, bureaucracy ...
          3. +3
            5 November 2019 19: 44
            Quote: Alf
            Before introducing a permit for free carrying-storage, it is necessary to restore order in the system for issuing permits for a short barrel.

            first you need to allow people to protect themselves, to recall how they almost put the girl who had raped the rapist femoral artery ?!
          4. -3
            5 November 2019 20: 41
            1. Only state commissions and God forbid the private trader, originally corrupt.

            1. Only private commissions and God forbid state, initially corrupt.
            1. +4
              5 November 2019 22: 21
              Quote: syndicalist
              Only private commissions and God forbid state, initially corrupt.

              left help will be in the first and second
            2. 0
              6 November 2019 06: 02
              maybe a lot easier. not to give a bribe and then there will be no bribes .. You give a bribe and they take and not vice versa. so what do they have to do with it. You are primarily to blame for coming to them and knowing that you are forbidden. decided to help yourself in a bribe.
          5. +7
            5 November 2019 21: 54
            Quote: Alf
            Before introducing a permit for free carrying-storage, it is necessary to restore order in the system for issuing permits for a short barrel.
            1. Only state commissions and God forbid the private trader, originally corrupt.
            2. The issuer of the permit, in case of unlawful use of the trunk, goes as an accomplice. And no conditions, only the real term.

            Do you live in a parallel universe? Well, let's plant a university teacher for 5 years, whose graduate had a marriage at work ... Doesn’t it smell like nonsense? ..
        2. -7
          5 November 2019 18: 41
          medical commissions of conscripts are strictly and in full. do not write nonsense.
      4. +26
        5 November 2019 18: 03
        If today short-barrels are allowed, tomorrow every second guy from the southern republics will have it quite legally. Anticipating the arguments "They are all armed anyway," I will say that for many of them the presence of legal weapons will mean that they can be obtained legally, legally poke someone between their eyes, legally walk the streets and smack right and left. And I assure you, the infrequent cases of Caucasian weddings with shots in the sky will seem childish to you.
        For a young animal who, at best, just went to school, and most likely went there periodically, but succeeded in "wrestling-sambo-mma-yufs-khabibslamait", it will be very difficult for you to explain that the presence of legal weapons does not imply that it is possible get it out whenever you want.
        Anticipating the comments of people from the Caucasus and those Slavic men who "They know those lands, served there, etc. and so on, therefore, do not tell us nonsense, boy," I will say right away, I myself am an Azerbaijani and I understand what I am talking about.
        And those who, who will now say "We need to control the process of obtaining a firearms permit," I’ll say right away: I don’t know any of my relatives from the Caucasus who would honestly unlearn their license, without a bribe and honestly get a higher education, without bribing any of teachers. It will be the same with obtaining a firearm permit. By no means do I want to say that everything is bought, sold and lived there by one "wrestler-wrestler", but I think you understand the trend.
        And yes, if I’m a bully gangster, and you’re an armed decent man, and my goal is to pick up your gun, in two minutes I’ll become an armed hooligan, and at best you will become a candidate for patients in the nearest hospital. And so it will be in the vast majority of cases.
        Here is a video for an example. Do you know why this hero did not poke a guy in the face with a gun? Just because he didn’t have this gun. Just because.
        1. Alf
          0
          5 November 2019 18: 08
          Quote: Black_Jacket
          If the short barrel is allowed today,

          Read my post a little higher.
          1. +14
            5 November 2019 18: 15
            May no commission work properly. I live in a city where snow has been pouring almost non-stop for a week. Utilities said "Sorry, the snow will only start clearing from November 10, the contract is like this."
            Should the permit issuer go as an accomplice? And the seller of the shovel, must answer, if someone then breaks the skull with this shovel to a neighbor in the country? You are not writing about regulatory measures now, but about fiction, sorry for being blunt. And with hunting weapons, which is also a lot in the hands, now also need to do? Just try to give me at least one more or less robust argument, why should the issuing firearms for quite legitimate reasons be responsible for the further fate of this firearm?
            1. Alf
              -3
              5 November 2019 18: 25
              Quote: Black_Jacket
              Just try to give me at least one more or less robust argument, why the issuing gunshot for quite legitimate reasons should be responsible for the further fate of this gunshot?

              If you gave Xiva narik or inadequate or registered in a mental hospital. And I’m talking about a psychologist.
              1. +11
                5 November 2019 18: 34
                Any permission is issued including on the basis of honey. references. If for honey. If a citizen is healthy in documents, then what reasons can there be for the commission you mentioned above not to issue a citizen permission for a firearm?
                And here one more interesting point emerges - we have a lot of non-state offices, where medical commissions of various kinds are quite legally formed. From a driver’s license, then various security and hunting documents.
                But you have not answered the question. Should the shovel seller be responsible for the fate of this shovel? And the seller of the car is responsible, if then the brakes of this car failed and its new owner got into the pole?
                1. Alf
                  -2
                  5 November 2019 18: 38
                  Quote: Black_Jacket
                  Any permission is issued including on the basis of honey. references.

                  AGAIN. If it turns out that the person issued the certificate incorrectly or for grandmas, welcome to the bunk.
                  Quote: Black_Jacket
                  we have a lot of non-state offices, where medical commissions of various kinds are quite legally formed.

                  AGAIN. Only government agencies.
                  Is it really incomprehensible?
                  Quote: Black_Jacket
                  But you have not answered the question.

                  And I won’t answer. Because initially a shovel is not considered a weapon. And, judging by your monologue, you are a master to chatter.
                  1. +8
                    5 November 2019 18: 46
                    AGAIN. If it turns out that the person issued the certificate incorrectly or for grandmas, welcome to the bunk.

                    If it does not, explain the whole mechanism of this action.
                    AGAIN. Only government agencies.
                    Is it really incomprehensible?

                    Already today the medical commission for a smoothbore can be successfully held in private shops. But okay, be your way. What will fundamentally differ aunt-psychologist-narcologist in a private office, from the same aunt in the state. institution?
                    And I won’t answer. Because initially a shovel is not considered a weapon. And, judging by your monologue, you are a master to chatter.

                    I’m not a master at chattering, I’m just a lawyer and I’m thinking how the law works and how it should work. Therefore, he wrote about fiction above. We have such people sitting in the thought: first they’ll come up with a law, introduce it, and then we all figure out how this law should work. And all because very often athletes, economists, doctors, actors come up with these laws - all, but not lawyers. And yes, based on the fact that you answer me, this is most likely not a monologue, but a dialogue ... but I’m finding fault with it)

                    P.S. I’m not putting you cons. In general, I never put cons if there is no direct insult.
                    1. Alf
                      -3
                      5 November 2019 19: 09
                      Quote: Black_Jacket
                      P.S. I’m not putting you cons. In general, I never put cons if there is no direct insult.

                      I try to do the same.
                      Quote: Black_Jacket
                      What will fundamentally differ aunt-psychologist-narcologist in a private office, from the same aunt in the state. institution?

                      There is a difference. People go to state medicine to heal and save, and to hammer in commercial loot. It’s not for me to tell you how the diagnosis in a private clinic differs from the diagnosis in a district medical unit.
                      1. +3
                        5 November 2019 19: 46
                        Is it right in the state structures that they only go to save, treat and serve? You throw a lot of all sorts of different videos, where the doctors state. clinics, to put it mildly, do not properly perform their duties? This is not a serious conversation, I see no reason to discuss further.
                  2. +1
                    6 November 2019 00: 26
                    Quote: Alf
                    AGAIN. If it turns out that the person issued the certificate incorrectly or for grandmas, welcome to the bunk.
                    -that is, you are aware that a forensic psychiatric examination is carried out in a hospital and then the result is not always clear?
                    Do you want a psychologist to determine in 10 minutes - normal or crazy? Big cockroaches in your head or only when vodka gets drunk?
                2. 0
                  5 November 2019 19: 00
                  What to do in this case? Leave it as it is or look for a way out?
                  1. +1
                    5 November 2019 20: 00
                    The question is not on my salary)
                    Seriously, I think that our country is not ready for the fact that almost anyone can take possession of the short-barreled. It's a pity we are online, face to face, I would bet a large sum of money that I would take possession of your firearm if I set myself such a task without making great efforts, unless, of course, you are a frostbitten (in a good sense of the word) warrior- a paranoid who, leaving the entrance, immediately looks around, expects an attack from behind the door and looks under the car for mining, and reacts to a friendly greeting from a neighbor with the words "Hands up, face on the floor, rock the boat." But we have such people in a minority, and I think that many of them will agree that a simple civilian firearm will most likely not protect, but it can provoke more active actions from the bandos.
                    1. +3
                      5 November 2019 23: 00
                      I read your discussion with great interest, but this comment killed wassat i saw myself feel laughed for half an hour ... thank you very much !!! Every time I look under the car before starting the movement, for the presence of foreign objects in the form of kittens, children and other animals, I look at the wheels and really "pass" the environment and I am really called paranoid fellow Only I do this automatically, with love, so to speak ... Well, for about five years I have been studying psychology, since this is the problem of society.
                      As for the psychiatric examination, a normal psychologist will reliably identify an individual with an unstable psyche within an hour, but there is one thing, but under the pressure of life circumstances, the psyche can change in any direction within six months, that is, the validity of the certificate is limited. And one more thing, it turns out that 80% of the population is not quite adequate crying And this is genocide lol There are only pearls with "macaroshkas", "the state did not ask you to give birth" what are they worth, and these are people exposed by the authorities lol
                      Another trick, the police article on duty "used foul language, pestered a person" but there was no list of prohibited words in the federal law and there never will be wassat that is, everything is based on a purely personal perception of an individual, in fact giving justice to random hands and usually the head is not burdened with excessive intelligence ... The "justice" itself is a little clumsy in nature, plus the human skill to vulgarize in the form of judges ... There are certainly pleasant exceptions in life, but they are the same 20 percent. The problems are really very complicated, and the authorities are not at all interested in raising them and losing ratings, since the same notorious "totalitarianism" will be restricted anyway, and there will be 80% of those dissatisfied laughing do you feel the alignment? Therefore, "freedom" who needs it and how it should bully let the people hawala if they can ... Beauty, some have everything and are happy, others have nothing and brains to guess the same happy ... There are no unfortunate people in fool, they are each happy in their own way hi
                    2. 0
                      6 November 2019 05: 59
                      that's for sure. or are you walking down the street with the barrel ready to go. and you disperse everyone or then you can fill up and take away weapons without any problems.
            2. +3
              5 November 2019 18: 33
              Quote: Black_Jacket
              May no commission work properly. I live in a city where snow has been pouring almost non-stop for a week. Utilities said "Sorry, the snow will only start clearing from November 10, the contract is like this."
              Should the permit issuer go as an accomplice? And the seller of the shovel, must answer, if someone then breaks the skull with this shovel to a neighbor in the country? You are not writing about regulatory measures now, but about fiction, sorry for being blunt. And with hunting weapons, which is also a lot in the hands, now also need to do? Just try to give me at least one more or less robust argument, why should the issuing firearms for quite legitimate reasons be responsible for the further fate of this firearm?

              Regarding the commission, I agree that a person cannot guarantee that the other will not move off the coils after a while.
              But your example with a hunting weapon just shows that anyone who has it legally, tries not to violate. And statistics of offenses using registered weapons, including injuries, just confirms that the owners are trying to comply with the law, in contrast to the owners are not registered. hi
              1. +3
                5 November 2019 18: 38
                You and I both perfectly understand that a hunting rifle and a pistol are completely different things, both in terms of their purpose and the perception of their owner. I can't imagine the owners of their "Toziks" going out to the promenade with a gun. But with pistols everything will be completely different.
                1. +3
                  5 November 2019 18: 58
                  Quote: Black_Jacket
                  You and I both perfectly understand that a hunting rifle and a pistol are completely different things, both in terms of their purpose and the perception of their owner. I can't imagine the owners of their "Toziks" going out to the promenade with a gun. But with pistols everything will be completely different.

                  So inadequate even now, even with automatic machines can come out (well, maybe of course with civil versions). And what is characteristic, as a rule, these are either deputies or mayors (or their children). Those. it doesn’t apply to such laws even after the fact, since inadequate deputies and children of district heads have access to it.


                  Such indeed, and with a grenade launcher can. Maybe someone already has a tank.
        2. 0
          5 November 2019 18: 57
          Most of the notorious "day-gun" will be useless your arguments. Their song: "Give legalization of weapons!" endless! They have such a complex! winked
        3. +6
          5 November 2019 19: 25
          And yes, if I’m a bully gangster, and you’re an armed decent man, and my goal is to pick up your gun, in two minutes I’ll become an armed hooligan, and at best you will become a candidate for patients in the nearest hospital. And so it will be in the vast majority of cases.


          This is a very big question. The weapon itself sharply increases self-confidence and this confidence is justified. No strength of character would help Shamsutdinov deal with the guard if he were unarmed. The feeble soldiers, conscripts in Chechnya very quickly became soldiers, because 9 grams of lead is enough for any superbug. Korotkostvol is prohibited precisely because it increases the capabilities of its owner by an order of magnitude. A bully can take a weapon from one - two decent, and the third will end his path, even with fright.
          1. 0
            5 November 2019 20: 09
            You can safely put this confidence into any hard-to-reach place if the civilian does not have more or less acceptable skills, and most importantly, there is no firm intention to shoot.
            And what about Chechnya? There, people understood: either you learn to destroy the enemy, or the enemy will destroy you. Let’s compare peaceful life with the war ?! Do you often fall asleep under the cannonade in civilian life? Are you often shot at? Often hear grenade explosions? And while walking through the forest, do you look under your feet to hook the stretch?
            A hooligan, having taken the weapon from the first one, can make such cases that the second one is no longer needed, and there is no talk of the third. And yes, where did you get the idea that only decent people would run for permission to short-barrel? The question is rhetorical.
            1. +3
              5 November 2019 23: 50
              if the civilian does not have more or less acceptable skills

              Well, of course, skills will appear. If a person decides to buy a gun, by himself - he will want to undergo training, and then to maintain skills. This is possible now, and from military weapons. In Moscow, a bunch of shooting galleries - Izmalkovo, Scythian, Object, etc. But the sophisticated Federation of Practical Shooting does not wait. There are already 25 members.

              no firm intention to shoot.

              Here's the situation. And for this you do not have to be a seasoned commando, who has flunked a bunch of spirits. Do you think if someone brakes on the track a mother with two children in a car, she thinks? Or grandfather with stage 4 cancer and Colt 1911, walking with his granddaughter in the park will watch how the hooligans are trying to paw her? Yes, he’ll demolish them simply because they looked askance at her.

              A hooligan, having taken the weapon from the first one, can make such cases that the second one is no longer needed, and there is no talk of the third.


              We already have traumatic weapons in full swing. Have you heard that someone climbed to select him?
              And there will be even fewer volunteers. Will you reach for the gun in the hands of a young, scared girl? For example, I will not risk it.

              And yes, where did you get the idea that only decent people would run for permission to short-barrel?


              Mostly yes. The criminals already have it.

              According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Weapons Control (BATF) in the United States, 93% of the trunks used by criminals is acquired illegally.
        4. +8
          5 November 2019 20: 19
          Quote: Black_Jacket
          Anticipating the arguments "They are all armed anyway," I will say that for many of them the presence of legal weapons will mean that they can be obtained legally, poke them legally between the eyes, legally walk the streets and smack right and left.

          "Smacking right and left" with a registered weapon? You can get into a person. And to kill with such a weapon is like leaving your passport with your full name, year of birth, registration, etc., at the crime scene. sit down on a tag. And even for life. Something is doubtful to me that there would be many. What you described is made from unregistered, because it is difficult to find then impossible.

          This is on the one hand. And on the other hand, as soon as a dozen or two fans to swing their rights on a trifle, having run into steel Faberges, dress in a wooden Macintosh, then immediately the rest of the desire to "smack right and left" will diminish.

          PS. The largest number of crimes, with fatal or bodily injuries of varying severity, is committed with a kitchen knife. I emphasize - the kitchen. So where do opponents of legalizing kitchen knives look?
          1. +1
            6 November 2019 00: 29
            Quote: McAr
            And to kill with such a weapon is like leaving your passport with the name, year of birth, residence permit, etc., at the crime scene. sit on a tag.
            "And why did you get that he didn’t defend himself? He will swear by his mother, and will bring witnesses ....
            So what about tag-oh not a fact ....
            1. -1
              6 November 2019 02: 23
              Quote: your1970
              Quote: McAr
              And to kill with such a weapon is like leaving your passport with the name, year of birth, residence permit, etc., at the crime scene. sit on a tag.
              "And why did you get that he didn’t defend himself? He will swear by his mother, and will bring witnesses ....
              So what about tag-oh not a fact ....

              Yes, of course, not a fact! Gold is not 100%, what can we say about solving crimes.

              The liner, bouncing far away, stuck to the tread of a passing truck, and the bullet passed right through and flew off hell knows where. What weapons were fired and Holmes himself would not say. You see, neither mom nor fake witnesses are needed.

              It's not about that. The point is that from a registered weapon there would be less than one hundred times less to shoot than from an unregistered one.
        5. +5
          5 November 2019 20: 25
          Black_Vatnik

          Are you an Azerbaijani living in Russia?
          1. 0
            5 November 2019 21: 42
            Yes, is this amazing?)
            1. +4
              5 November 2019 21: 55
              It was amazing in the year 91 in Kazi Magomed ...
        6. 0
          5 November 2019 20: 27
          I hope this "eagle" from the video sat down on the bunk?
          1. +1
            5 November 2019 21: 41
            Sat down. And there it is not sweet, they can omit it.
        7. +3
          5 November 2019 20: 45
          Do you know why this hero did not poke a guy in the face with a gun? Just because he didn’t have this gun. Just because.

          Do you know why this hero will not poke a guy in the face with a gun? Just because this timid guy might have a gun too. And due to the weaker nervous system, he will apply it first.
          1. -1
            5 November 2019 21: 40
            The logic is not working, otherwise he would not rock the guy, not sure that he would not fight back. And yes, there were three victims, and there was only one "hero".
        8. +3
          5 November 2019 21: 18
          "If the short-barrels are allowed today, tomorrow every second guy from the southern republics will have it quite legally." And today almost everyone has it.
          1. 0
            6 November 2019 05: 54
            guys from the southern republics. always together and always all for each other and we pass by. or worse, we serve them for money. that’s the problem, they protect the friend of a friend and we. sitting in their apartments.
      5. +5
        5 November 2019 18: 06
        Quote: Alf
        Quote: MoJloT
        The point is not the legalization or prohibition of civilian weapons, the fact is that their illegal weapons have long been in the hands of scumbags, with absolute impotence of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

        Among the policemen is also full of scumbags and inadequate. But, for some reason, the opponents of the short-barrel are not going to take it from them.

        Right. Not so long ago, a case in the subway where an employee shot two colleagues from the Security Council. And remembering how inadequately the siloviki behaved during the Moscow protests (when rowing indiscriminately, even members of EP fell laughing) then it’s even more time to withdraw weapons from the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Russian Guard, in order to ensure the same security of citizens. At least this is logical, neither the security forces have weapons, nor the citizens, and no one will shoot anyone. There will be nothing (let them use hammers and screwdrivers).

        Ah, you can’t seize from the security forces, because does crime have a weapon? Crime always has it, he doesn’t need any permission for a weapon, he issues it to himself, at will. And then it turns out that all inadequate, except law-abiding citizens, already have weapons. Crime has betrayed itself, and the state has entrusted to inadequacies like Evsyukov. And yes, the mayor of Kisilevsk himself died, but he still managed to lay one of the attackers in place. So he managed to apply, although he himself did not save, but the gangsters didn’t find the walk easy.

        I, for allowing short-barreled weapons to citizens. But I wouldn’t buy it myself, I personally don’t see the need, but for my wife’s example, it’s quite possible. hi
      6. +12
        5 November 2019 18: 07
        Free possession of a firearm is fraught with the fact that people can get rid of such fundamental spiritual bonds as the honoring of bureaucrats-United Russia, when they commit some minor violation (a "drunk" boy will be knocked down there or at Zakharchenka). So the possession of a firearm is the lot of overseas sodomites. And Major Evsyukov will protect you and me.
        1. +1
          5 November 2019 18: 45
          Quote: d.olegov44
          people can get rid of such fundamental spiritual bonds as honoring the United Russia bureaucrats
          Those. Do you think "Tiger" is less suitable for this? Which side? Psychologically or technically?
          1. +2
            6 November 2019 12: 28
            Such as he do not plan not to tiger not pm to use them to kindle it all is necessary ...
      7. -6
        5 November 2019 18: 38
        and you ask the author of the article. let’s say, as a zealous opponent, this question didn’t even arise. And who exactly of the opponents said this?) I'm afraid the one who wrote this will say it gently invented everything)
      8. 0
        6 November 2019 07: 04
        Quote: Alf
        Quote: MoJloT
        The point is not the legalization or prohibition of civilian weapons, the fact is that their illegal weapons have long been in the hands of scumbags, with absolute impotence of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

        Among the policemen is also full of scumbags and inadequate. But, for some reason, the opponents of the short-barrel are not going to take it from them. Maybe because the opponents themselves are from the System?
        About a year ago there was a case when a veteran-Afghan 40 was obviously sick (behaving strangely) !!! the police did not get out to take away two working machetes (he chopped off the bushes) and shot him stupidly. Can you imagine what will happen if the short-barrel is allowed to citizens?
    2. +4
      5 November 2019 17: 56
      And there will be even more and the presence of your "short-barreled" will not save you from the word at all ... Who do you think is stronger, the one who has a knife or the one who has a pistol? The correct answer is the one who has the initiative to attack ... and if this is the owner of the knife, then no pistol will help his opponent in this case! Further, in the case of the widespread distribution of "short-barreled", Russia will be swept by a wave of shootings in everyday and especially street conflicts, and in the latter, weapons, due to fear of their presence in the opponent's possession, will be used almost immediately, without massacre ... plus accidental victims from ricochets and inaccurate shots. It seems to me that the toughening and inevitability of punishment for crimes associated with the use of violence (malicious hooliganism, robbery, robbery, etc.) are much better able to protect a citizen than a pistol in the pocket of every citizen.
      1. Alf
        +3
        5 November 2019 18: 01
        Quote: Greg Miller
        It seems to me that toughening and inevitability of punishment for crimes related to the use of violence (malicious hooliganism, robbery, robbery, etc.) are much better able to protect a citizen than a pistol in your pocket.

        I agree. But the authorities, prohibiting the short-barrels, for some reason do not take any action in the direction you indicated, unless, of course, you do not mean renaming the police to the police.
        1. +15
          5 November 2019 18: 35
          The current government does not serve the people, but itself. From the point of view of the current government, an ideal state has already been built - they all have and are not responsible for anything. And they want only one thing - to extend their Sabbath for the longest possible period.
      2. +8
        5 November 2019 18: 55
        Quote: Greg Miller
        Russia will be swept by a wave of skirmishes in domestic and especially street conflicts

        weird. I’m working at the forefront of these conflicts, or rather their consequences, but the number of stab wounds has fallen significantly, and there are no gunshots at all. Is the people smarter? There will be nothing upon receipt of the weapon, the question is who will receive it!
      3. +9
        5 November 2019 19: 08
        Further, in the event of a widespread distribution of "short-barreled", Russia will be swept by a wave of shootings in everyday and especially street conflicts, and in the latter, weapons, due to fear of their presence in the opponent's possession, will be used almost immediately, without massacre ... ricochets and inaccurate shots.


        An analysis of general international statistics on the number of weapons in the hands of the population and killings in 169 countries for which reliable data are available shows that there is a clear decrease in the number of killings, with an increase in the population's armament.
        Such an analysis allows you to break all these camps into 4 groups:
        - With high armament - more than 30 weapons per 100 people (there are 16 such countries). For them, the average homicide rate is 1,9 per 100 thousand people.
        - With an armed population of 20 to 30 weapons (there are 11 such countries), where the average number of killings is 3,4 per 100 thousand people.
        - With an armed population of 10 to 20 weapons (33 countries), where the average number of killings is at 9,6 per 100 thousand people.
        - With a population of less than 10 weapons (such countries 109), with an average number of killings of 11,8 for every 100 thousand people. Thus, a clear pattern is observed, according to which an increase in the mass of civilian weapons leads to a decrease in the number of criminal killings.


        The level of alcohol consumption in Moldova (13,2 liters per capita per year) is higher than ours in Russia (10,2 l / year). Short-barreled weapons are allowed in this country. The number of crimes committed with the use of firearms in 2010 was 25. The number of deaths from firearms is 1,9 people. per 100 thousand people (at least 13 people per 100 thousand are killed annually in Russia).


        If we accept the official statistics of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, then since 2006, about 115 thousand murders have been obtained. Over the same period, 70 people were killed from traumatic weapons, i.e. it is used only in 0.06% of kills.

        In 1987, Florida allowed citizens to buy weapons. Since then, state crime has fallen by 21%, while in the country as a whole it has grown by 12%. In Canada, the opposite is true: there before, weapons were sold freely, and after the introduction of severe restrictions, crime jumped up by 45%.
        1. 0
          5 November 2019 20: 30
          The data is interesting. But as far as I know, there is no direct correlation. About Florida, I read that yes, after resolving the weapons, the number of robberies by illegal Cuban migrants abruptly decreased.
        2. -3
          5 November 2019 20: 41
          Quote: Arzt
          Such an analysis allows you to break all these camps into 4 groups:
          - Highly armed - more than 30 weapons on 100 people (such countries 16). For them, the average kill rate is 1,9 per 100 thousand population.
          -this figure overlaps immediately and irrevocably in one word ........USA...
          Washington Post
          "US citizens own 393 million weapons, which is 67 million more than the country's population, reports the publication The Washington Post citing research from the Small Arms Survey project.
          Researchers studied data for 230 countries and did not take into account weapons used by law enforcement services and the military. According to them, about 4% of all people on the planet live in the United States, but they have almost 46% of all firearms in the world at their disposal.
          On the 100 US residents account for about 120,5 weapons, thus, even if you equip the entire population of the country, approximately 67 million weapons will remain orphaned.
          For comparison, the Small Arms Survey cited data for Yemen, where there are 100 weapons per 52,8 citizens. In terms of the total number of civilian weapons, India is closest to the United States with 71,1 million units. "
          Based
          Quote: Arzt
          Analysis general international statistics on the number of weapons in the hands of the population and killings in 169 countries for which reliable data exist, shows that there is a clear decrease in the number of murders, with an increase in the armament of the population.
          - in the USA there should be no murders at all, in principle .... fool fool

          Air force
          "According to the Archive of Violence with the Use of Weapons, since the beginning of this year, 9 people have been killed and more than 956 injured.
          So many people die from firearms in the United States that the number of casualties from the 1968 to the 2011 year exceeds the combined losses in all the wars ever waged by America. According to the Politifact project, during this period 1,4 млн deaths due to the use of firearms, while in all armed conflicts - from the War of Independence to the last Iraq campaign - they died 1,2 million people. "
          that is, translated into Russian - it is best for the Americans to kill the Americans, they apparently do not know how to fight.
          On average, 11 000 per year Americans are fired from pestles by their fellow citizens ....

          Z.Y. I would like to look at this demagogue with statistics - in the USA, where every hour a person is killed from a gunshot
          1. +3
            5 November 2019 22: 40
            I would like to look at this demagogue with statistics - in the USA, where every hour a person is killed from a gunshot


            Do not worry, you live in a country where they kill every 22 minutes, though not only from a gunshot.
            Here they counted more or less reliably, with verified links.

            https://aftershock.news/?q=node/777091&full

            Russia for 2018 - 23954 killings (16,2 on 100 000).
            USA - for 2017 - 25309 kills (7,76 on 100 000).

            the difference is TWO TIMES. Not in our favor. (Or ours if you want wink )

            So many people die each year from firearms in the United States that the number of casualties from 1968 to 2011 exceeds the cumulative losses in all wars America has ever fought. According to the Politifact project, 1,4 million deaths were caused by the use of firearms during this period, while 1,2 million people died in all armed conflicts - from the War of Independence to the last Iraqi campaign. "
            that is, translated into Russian - it is best for the Americans to kill the Americans, they apparently do not know how to fight.


            Your conclusion is also not entirely clear.
            As I understand it, the 1,2 million dead are AMERICANS who died in all the wars America has ever waged. Compare with OUR losses in all the wars that Russia has ever waged.

            Now think about whether the Americans can fight.
            1. +1
              6 November 2019 00: 12
              Quote: Arzt
              Now think about whether the Americans can fight.
              - they know how to fight, they know how ...
              True, there are nuances in the ability ..
              Grenada - they managed to lose several turntables during the occupation of the island on which there was not even an army. Just the Cubans were present, this was enough for the valiant American army ...
              Vietnam - everything is sad there
              Somalia - everything is adult there - they will come in - they will leave - they will enter again ...
              WWII - the Ardennes accidentally happened ... without fuel and aircraft, almost with the remnants of the forces the Germans pinched the tail of the USA .... And I can imagine what would have happened there if the Wehrmacht of the 1941-42 model was there. About Japan ... already lifeless and exhausted, after the atomic bombings - these craftsmen were at war - they planned operations on 1946 ...
              Iraq / Afghanistan - can learn to control the territory of checkpoints and garrisons
              PMV - in a year (1917-18) 117 465 people lost. Given that Germany was already on its knees almost ...
              and so about all wars

              they never fought for the real reason - nobody attacked their territory (except for Pearl Harbor). All their losses are losses of the occupying forces ...

              If you are hinting that the competent conduct of "combat" actions - after which everyone is obliged to the United States, yes, they can do that. To take away and divide the babos is sacred

              1,4 million deaths in the United States for the period from 1968 to 2011 - this is an average 32558 a year.

              And yes, these numbers are not ours - I specifically cited the numbers foreign Media
            2. -1
              6 November 2019 13: 31
              Quote: Arzt
              Russia for 2018 - 23954 killings (16,2 on 100 000).
              USA - for 2017 - 25309 kills (7,76 on 100 000).

              the difference is TWO TIMES. Not in our favor. (Or ours if you want to wink)

              And why do not you at the same time compare the number of population in Russia 146 million and the USA 326 million people. In the US, the population is 2,2 times larger, respectively, and the number on 100 thousand will be less. Sly, my friend feel
              1. 0
                6 November 2019 13: 54
                And why don't you compare the population

                Just compare, we have 16,2 they have 7,7 on 100 000. They have half as much.
                1. +1
                  6 November 2019 14: 35
                  Quote: Arzt
                  Just compare, we have 16,2 they have 7,7 on 100 000. They have half as much.

                  Russia: 23954 killings: 146 million people = 0,00016 killings on 1 people
                  USA: 25309: 326 million people = 0,00008 killings on 1 people
                  Almost the same number of murders, but the population in 2 is more than once, and the coefficient will be lower. Divide the number of murders in the USA by the same number of population as in Russia and get completely different 25309 numbers: 146 million people = 0,00017
                  1. +1
                    6 November 2019 18: 14
                    Russia: 23954 killings: 146 million people = 0,00016 killings on 1 people
                    USA: 25309: 326 million people = 0,00008 killings on 1 people
                    Almost the same number of murders, but the population is more than 2 times larger, respectively, and the coefficient will be less.

                    You all correctly counted on one person, now multiply by 100. And so it is clear, 000 is 0,00016 times more than 2, there are already 0,00008 zeros after the decimal point.

                    Why divide the dead Americans into living Russians did not understand.

                    Let's give a more clear example. Both in America and in Russia they killed about 25 each. Let it be 000 bottles of vodka. But there are 25 Russians, 14 Americans. The stump will be more clear for us, 32 bubbles for each and another bubble. And Americans have less bubble on their nose. tongue
    3. -1
      5 November 2019 17: 58
      with absolute impotence of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in all areas of activity

      Moreover, most of the "dirty trunks" are of MuVeDesh origin.
      1. +2
        5 November 2019 18: 46
        can you prove or blah blah blah is this such a way to throw a fan?
    4. +3
      5 November 2019 20: 50
      Quote: MoJloT
      The case is not the legalization or prohibition of civilian weapons
      Actually, the title does not correspond to reality.
      I, a Russian living in Russia, have a legal firearm, kept at home.
      Another thing is that tolerant pacifists want to tighten the nuts in the wake of the case ...
    5. 0
      6 November 2019 12: 07
      What, it is necessary to simplify the receipt of weapons? What will we simplify, a check with a narcologist or a psychologist, maybe training for using weapons?
      1. 0
        7 November 2019 04: 40
        Quote: Incvizitor
        What, it is necessary to simplify the receipt of weapons?
        Of course!
        Do you think everything is simple in the USA?
        It is necessary like this: rubber goggles are forbidden, KS is allowed - for carrying and self-defense up to 300 J, for sports - any (carrying only in a bag-safe), for hunting - from 700 J. The numbers are approximate.
        To get a car license, introduce a narcologist, update every 5 years, with exams for accumulated violations.
        Buying weapons without visiting the Rosguard - showed rights, chose a weapon, reserved, the store handed over documents to the Rosguard, sold the barrel, if the decision is positive.
    6. 0
      6 November 2019 21: 51
      Quote: MoJloT
      The point is not the legalization or prohibition of civilian weapons, the fact is that

      ... with such problems, the armed forces are not capable of solving combat missions. The "vertical" after this "incident" should provide social elevators for commanders who are able to establish military order.
  2. +9
    5 November 2019 17: 45
    What nonsense is this !!!!! And the execution of the Ingush policeman why not dragged? He generally walked under state guard, the guards did not help, and the short barrel would NOT help.
    PS. condolences to the relatives of all the victims.
  3. The comment was deleted.
    1. +1
      5 November 2019 17: 52
      Quote: Kronos
      He did everything right by killing 8 villains offending him if every citizen could bring down corrupt cops, judges, deputies and others like that, the country would be much better

      Stop. Everything has a measure.
    2. -1
      5 November 2019 17: 54
      No life is worth any wrongs.
      1. +1
        5 November 2019 18: 04
        I do not condone the commentator above, but you are also wrong. Sometimes resentment can ruin a lifetime.

        It remains to be guessed what the guy was so told that he shot 8 people. I hope this case will be a lesson to everyone else.
        1. +2
          5 November 2019 18: 13
          There are different people with different psyche. The guy was probably a clear leader and could not integrate into the "system" of subordination that was not built by him. A critical mass has accumulated and ... But you cannot kill people.
          1. -1
            5 November 2019 18: 49
            the sociopath does not have the value of human life in the program. he simply does not understand it. therefore, such a brake does not work. he’s just deep in the drum that he takes people’s lives. and repentance will not happen to him. moreover, he will repeat it easily.
            1. +1
              5 November 2019 18: 53
              I tried to imagine him in the place of a sergeant, or even more so an officer .. He would have infringed his subordinates to the fullest ..
              1. 0
                5 November 2019 19: 03
                there is such a peculiarity in children of a certain upbringing that it is impossible to achieve the fulfillment of orders of ordinary type cleaning from them. just open ignoring them. at least do something with him. and there are already some trying to deal with the like in an old and proven way. mows one - everyone suffers. the mistake is that you need to monitor this and have sergeants who control the situation. apparently there were no such people with this person. the fact that the company was the first to die says a lot. For this reason, I always believed that the transfer to a year of service in such cases would result. and not mistaken.
          2. +2
            5 November 2019 20: 16
            But you can’t kill people.
            This is the cant that humiliate people is also impossible. And this is impossible and that is impossible.
        2. +2
          5 November 2019 18: 13
          Quote: Voyager
          It remains to be guessed what the guy was so told that he shot 8 people. I hope this case will be a lesson to everyone else.

          No, that won't be a lesson. Which is personally surprising to me. How many of these cases have already been with hazing and subsequent executions. But all of them are the following, firmly convinced that this certainly will not happen to them. hi
          1. -4
            5 November 2019 18: 56
            Because this happens sometimes, and when every trash will be shot all the time, or at least every other day, then even it will reach them
            1. -1
              5 November 2019 20: 10
              Quote: Kronos
              Because this happens sometimes, and when every trash is going to be shot all the time, or at least every other day, then then even it will reach them
              - yes? sure?
              And in China, 25 is already being shot for corruption and something is not visible at the end of the fight ...
              They shoot an average of 3 people a day, in public, even in stadiums
              Has it reached the Chinese corrupt officials? Yeah, there are 3 candidates for tomorrow

              Z.Y. Already the children of those who were born - when they just started shooting ..
        3. 0
          5 November 2019 20: 33
          Sometimes resentment can ruin a lifetime.

          In the Moscow Region, an offended biker shot 5 people with a gun. Near Tver, in a holiday village, the offended returned with a barrel and killed 9 people. In this sense, resentment took the lives of innocent people.
          1. 0
            5 November 2019 20: 43
            And for the most part, all these killings are in a state of passion. As a rule, the external culprit of this condition also exists.
            1. +2
              5 November 2019 20: 47
              In a state of affect, this is when briefly under the influence of a strong emotional experience. And if you spent several hours going to Moscow to get a gun, or going to your dacha, there is no affect.
        4. +1
          5 November 2019 22: 20
          But after all, the victims had (each) a `` long-barreled '', and the killer did not stop it either ...
    3. +3
      5 November 2019 18: 50
      Quote: Kronos
      every citizen could bring down corrupt cops, judges, deputies and others so the country would be much better

      The country of frightened fool !!
      From polls:
      Do you believe the police?
      Нет!
      Believe the judicial system?
      Нет!
      For the death penalty?
      Yes!

      How can this be ??? what kind of perverse logic do you need to have for this? How much do you need to not have a brain - to answer NO and NO YES once to these questions ??? !!!!!

      People do not believe the police and want to arm themselves right away ... so that the police, following the example of the American cops, shoot anyone for no reason?

      And yes, something is a little heard about cases in the USA - so that citizens shoot corrupt bureaucrats .... And this is in a country where there are more weapons shops - than gas stations and fast food outlets .....
  4. -1
    5 November 2019 17: 52
    I fully support these arguments! We need such happiness as in the USA!
    Minusalsiki be prudent
    1. 0
      5 November 2019 18: 29
      Minusals did not seem to arrive ... when one of the "heroes" missed ...
    2. +8
      5 November 2019 19: 36
      I fully support these arguments! We need such happiness as in the USA!


      According to the Federal State Statistics Service, in 2009 in Russia 21,4 thousand murders were committed, or 15,1 murders per 100 thousand citizens. This is the highest homicide rate in Europe. For comparison, in the United States, similar figures, according to the FBI, were 13,6 thousand or 4,4 murders per 100 thousand inhabitants, respectively.

      For self-defense, weapons in the United States are used 60 times more often than for crimes. Moreover, in most cases (80%) the case is limited to a “psychological” counterattack on the offender, without killing or injuring him.

      In Vermont and Wyoming, states with free sale of weapons without a license, recorded 1,0 and 1,9 killings per year for every 100 thousand people. In Virginia, where weapons can be carried under license, the homicide rate for the same period (2007) was 5,3 per 100. In the District of Columbia, where the country's largest legislative restrictions on weapons were in force (it is forbidden to bring weapons into the county, it is also forbidden to sell and buy weapons, not to mention carrying them), then 30,8 killings per 100 thousand people were committed. Over the course of a moratorium on the possession of weapons for citizens of the city of Washington, the killing rate there rose by 134%.

      In general, in the US states where concealed carrying of loaded weapons is allowed, the overall level of criminal manifestations is lower by 22%, murders by 33%, robberies by 36%, robberies by 37%, and grievous bodily harm by 14% lower than in average for states where there is no such permission.

      If all the states that had not yet had laws on citizens' right to bear arms by 1992 adopted them in 1992, then since then some 1570 killings, 4177 rapes, and more than 60 serious cases of physical violence have since been prevented would be in the country annually.

      In Brazil, 9 weapons per 100 people and 20 killings per year for every 100 thousand people. In a number of neighboring Latin American countries where the use of CCW is permitted (Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay), murders are 2-4 times less than in Brazil, but weapons per capita are more than one and a half to two times - 17-13 units for every 100 people . There are very few weapons in Honduras and Guatemala (2 units per 100 people) and these same countries are world “leaders” in the number of murders (78 and 41 murders for every 100 thousand people in 2010, respectively)
      1. 0
        5 November 2019 20: 37
        In the USA, it’s very strange to consider those killed by a gunshot. For example, criminals who were shot while committing a crime are not taken into account. Like those killed by police officers. There are still all sorts of nuances. In general, if you calculate according to our standards, the statistics will be different.
  5. +13
    5 November 2019 17: 52
    Michael, I don’t recognize you in makeup ..! In general, I consider unethical to associate this tragedy with the legalization of the short barrel. And that is to say the least.
  6. +2
    5 November 2019 18: 04
    I would like to ask supporters of legalization if there were a lot of crimes suppressed by the ARMED security guards (and there are many such professionals), including the detention of a criminal. And what to expect from a simple citizen.
    It is much simpler to require siloviki to fulfill their DIRECT duties and bring certain laws to the norms.
    1. Alf
      +2
      5 November 2019 18: 10
      Quote: knn54
      It is much simpler to demand that the security forces fulfill their DIRECT duties.

      What prevents it from doing this?
      Quote: knn54
      reduction to the norms of certain laws.

      To power itself hewn?
    2. +5
      5 November 2019 18: 21
      Quote: knn54
      I would like to ask supporters of legalization if there were a lot of crimes suppressed by the ARMED security guards (and there are many such professionals), including the detention of a criminal. And what to expect from a simple citizen.
      It is much simpler to require siloviki to fulfill their DIRECT duties and bring certain laws to the norms.

      How much simpler, as much and pointless. See, for example, a video from Shies. Where the private security officers face the opponents of the landfill, and employees either defiantly do not notice violations, or even (it is clear that by order from above), cover the offenders. And how many of them were not called upon and did not demand to stop the illegal actions of the ChOPovtsy, but to what sense? At best, they turn away and do not notice. So, it’s empty, under the current system of power, to demand law and justice. And especially if somewhere smells ruble. hi
      1. -2
        5 November 2019 19: 11
        If there were guns at the opponents of the landfill, in the conditions of legalization of short barrels, they would not only be beaten, but also shot, quite legally! Emotion is a bad adviser!
        1. -1
          7 November 2019 08: 19
          They would not be touched with a finger. Private security companies also want to live.
          1. -1
            7 November 2019 08: 26
            The police would shoot them, and if they were so stupid that they would open fire on the police, they would be rolled out with light and tanks by army units. This is true in any state, except perhaps in some countries of Africa!
            1. -1
              7 November 2019 13: 16
              And it is weak to imagine oneself in the place of a private security company, who should kick an armed man in the face, who, moreover, is not alone. I would not do that, even if there is a OMON company behind my back. Personally, it will not help me in any way, except with a three-fold volley in three days, but such "help" is not interesting to me.
              1. -1
                7 November 2019 13: 28
                Boy! First, serve in the army in a hot spot, then start talking about weak O! Long ago I noticed that the more a person is notorious, the more he wants to prove his innocence with the help of a "gun" or a knife, forgetting that the enemy may have a bigger "gun" and a longer knife! Give a vigorous bomb to every citizen for self-defense! fool
                1. -1
                  7 November 2019 13: 44
                  Served. And in the "hot spot" and in the police. In the most "interesting" years, from 93 to 00. It would be interesting to read about your service, boy.
                  1. 0
                    7 November 2019 14: 25
                    If this were so, then you would not write this:
                    I wouldn’t do that even if there was a company of riot police behind me

                    Firstly, ChOPovets can also be armed. Secondly, the police will conduct video recordings and those who only try to demonstrate weapons will be neutralized (stupidly shot) as they will constitute a public danger, and any court based on the evidence will confirm these actions are legitimate! It should also be noted that in connection with the proliferation of firearms, the leash on the use of weapons by police will be released! This is exactly what happens in the USA, where weapons are publicly available!
                    "The most interesting years" and turned out under the ability to get firearms without problems! Alas, your comments and views cast doubt on your experience as a person who has not only been to a hot spot, but also as a former policeman. After all, as a policeman, you must understand that any armed person can become dangerous for you, precisely because of the difference of opinion with you, as a representative of the law, regarding the correct understanding of this law by you, with tragic consequences for you.
                    1. 0
                      7 November 2019 16: 31
                      Quote: Horon
                      the one who only tries to demonstrate the weapon will be neutralized (stupidly shot)

                      It would be funny if it were not so sad. You have absolutely no idea about the basis and procedure for using service weapons by the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
                      Quote: Horon
                      It should also be noted that in connection with the proliferation of firearms, the leash on the use of weapons by police will be released!

                      Do you think that I will be against ?! I have two knives during the service, if it were in my time, they would most likely not have been.
                      Quote: Horon
                      The most interesting years "and turned out to be able to get firearms without any problems!

                      Firstly, not at all because of this, and secondly, do not confuse criminal and legal weapons. Crimes using legal weapons are extremely rare, but self-defense is the opposite!
                      Quote: Horon
                      After all, as a policeman, you must understand that any armed person can become dangerous for you

                      Another phrase showing how far you are from the subject of judgment. A normal, law-abiding person will never raise a hand (whether armed or not) against a representative of the law. A striking example is the relationship of hunters and huntsmen. The huntsmen detained me and my friends on a hunt (by mistake), but no one even thought of threatening them with weapons. We figured it out, returned the weapon, even offered a ride where we needed.
                      By the way, to my question
                      Quote: Fikys
                      It would be interesting to read about your service.

                      You didn’t answer, which does not allow me to take your opinion seriously.
                      1. 0
                        7 November 2019 20: 33
                        Quote: Fikys
                        Quote: Horon
                        the one who only tries to demonstrate the weapon will be neutralized (stupidly shot)

                        It would be funny if it were not so sad. You have absolutely no idea about the basis and procedure for using service weapons by the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

                        This should be considered only if:
                        It should also be noted that in connection with the proliferation of firearms, the leash on the use of weapons by police will be released!

                        Otherwise, they will go to the police with great reluctance, and even sabotage their duties as representatives of the rule of law. (which, in principle, even now often happens, the outfit leaves for the same family showdowns with a great delay and with great reluctance.
                        Quote: Fikys
                        Do you think that I will be against ?! I have two knives during the service, if it were in my time, they would most likely not have been.

                        Then I did not quite understand what was not in your time? Weapons? Knives? Injured? request Do you think that if the attacker had a gun, you would have time to use your own?
                        Quote: Fikys
                        Quote: Horon
                        The most interesting years "and turned out to be able to get firearms without any problems!

                        Firstly, not at all because of this, and secondly, do not confuse criminal and legal weapons. Crimes using legal weapons are extremely rare, but self-defense is the opposite!

                        1. It is the presence of "free" weapons on hand that has led to the ability to resolve their differences with its help. 2. All those weapons that began to emerge en masse in criminal showdowns were once legal! The use of legal weapons for crimes is indeed rare, but crimes involving the use of something that is not a weapon are quite numerous. A kitchen knife is used much more often, but such a weapon can only be used in close proximity, which gives the victim a slightly more chance. The appearance of firearms, however, reduces the chances of the victim to escape to almost zero.
                        Quote: Fikys
                        Quote: Horon
                        After all, as a policeman, you must understand that any armed person can become dangerous for you

                        Another phrase showing how far you are from the subject of judgment. A normal, law-abiding person will never raise a hand (whether armed or not) against a representative of the law.

                        Law-abiding - yes, but then from whom to defend yourself if there are only law-abiding around! (sarcasm) No. The trouble is that the person does not say who he is, but even a law-abiding person can transgress the law and anything can become a reason, from a state of affect to an elementary misinterpretation of the situation. For instance:
                        Private security officers face the opponents of the landfill, and employees either defiantly do not notice violations, or even (it is clear that by order from above), cover offenders.

                        In this situation, the law will be on the side of Chopovets, because by threatening him with a weapon, a person himself violates the law on self-defense and, in fact, exceeds it! Being in private territory and the threat of weapons to working personnel (even a person cannot be beaten is also a violation). But even outside the territory this cannot be done, as the judge and lawyers will turn the situation against the protester! Impact is possible only by law, but for a long time it is not a fact that it will be decided in favor of the protester. Having shot the ChOPovets, a person will simply become on the other side of the law!
                        Quote: Fikys
                        By the way, to my question
                        Quote: Fikys
                        It would be interesting to read about your service.

                        You didn’t answer, which does not allow me to take your opinion seriously.

                        I served in the north, near Murmansk, it makes no more sense to speak. I haven’t been to hot spots - God was merciful. Although there was a time to be in Georgia, when Georgians raged there in the late 80s, but as I said - God had mercy! In the 90s, I often fell for inadequate people who like to poke weapons in the face. He also wanted a gun then, but those who liked to walk around with weapons multiplied by zero over time. For that, I have now seen enough of people who, having received rights, forget about traffic rules, as soon as they leave on the road on their own, and they try to uphold their innocence from screaming to injuries and gunshots. We must not forget that even now you can sit down for self-defense and no one can guarantee that even after receiving a gun, a law-abiding person can have serious problems with its use for self-defense, even more severe restrictions than even policemen! request
                        It would be funny if it were not so sad. You have absolutely no idea about the basis and procedure for using service weapons by the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
      2. 0
        6 November 2019 05: 44
        Yes, because then it’s necessary not to fight with ChOPom and arrange rallies. and firstly understand everything for a start. without listening to different talkers like a girl from Sweden e.g. and solve a problem in court. according to the law .. then the chop will not be needed ..
    3. +4
      5 November 2019 18: 57
      Quote: knn54
      It is much simpler to require siloviki to fulfill their DIRECT duties and bring certain laws to the norms.

      it is simply unreal nowadays!
      1. +8
        5 November 2019 20: 02
        Sylvester hi You are a doctor, as far as I am aware. Previously, the traffic light turned off - the traffic controller worked until it was repaired. And now? Two hours to wait for GAI officers on road accident. There are none, they were replaced by cameras. request I’m afraid that the doctors will change to the camera. recourse How to talk to him? Even at the Bank the girl asks why you want to carry out the current operation. Yes, because I trust people more than a piece of iron. Recording my murder on camera will certainly help find the killers. But by chance a crew of PPS or DPS passing by can give me a chance to be alive. I want to live and raise children, and not lie in the "damp earth". Over the years, the value of life increases - because the understanding of this value comes. But I will not defend the completely "frostbitten" - these themselves do not live and do not give to others. Number of these. Yes
  7. -6
    5 November 2019 18: 10
    No legalization of weapons, including even scarecrow. We have no reasons and grounds for its legalization. In addition, it is necessary to strengthen the criminal liability for the unlawful carrying and use of firearms.
    1. +6
      5 November 2019 19: 51
      No legalization of weapons, including even scarecrow. We have no reasons and grounds for its legalization.


      Street crime in the first year after the liberalization of the regime (1993-1995), arms trafficking in the Baltic republics decreased by 25-40%

      Yemen, the second most armed region in the world, with 60 trunks for every 100 people, is extremely criminally safe and has 3,3 murders per 100 thousand people a year (in Russia this figure is 13, respectively)

      At the minimum crime level in the USSR of the 1963 model, immediately after the period of sale of hunting smoothbore weapons without a license, 3,5 murders per 100 thousand people were recorded annually, i.e. more than in armed Yemen and slightly less than in modern US states where all civilian weapons are sold without a license. Subsequently, the level of murders in the USSR increased to 6,5 in 1980. In Russia, this figure is now in the region of 13 murders per 100 thousand people.

      In the Russian Empire, during the period of free sale of weapons, the level of murders was from 6 to 7 murders for every 100 thousand people a year, having jumped once during the reign of the first Russian revolution to 13 murders and then dropping back. In Russia, the 13 homicide rate today is the minimum in recent history, which causes considerable doubt among experts, since a significant number of criminal killings are hidden in the statistics of the Ministry of Internal Affairs behind the “missing” and “serious bodily deaths”, which does not take into account the main statistics.

      If we accept the official statistics of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, then since 2006, about 115 thousand murders have been obtained. Over the same period, 70 people were killed from traumatic weapons, i.e. it is used only in 0.06% of kills.

      In the Czech Republic, where KNO is allowed the number of murders per capita is 8 times less than in neighboring Belarus, where it is extremely limited only to athletes.
  8. +1
    5 November 2019 18: 11
    Quote: Black_Jacket
    If the short barrel is allowed today, tomorrow every second guy from the southern republics will have it quite legally.

    No one bothers to introduce a rule on the right to wear exclusively within the issuing region .. And to establish the qualification of residence - say 5 years of registration in the village where you are applying for a weapon. And you can 10.
  9. +5
    5 November 2019 18: 11
    A legal weapon among citizens is a whole SYSTEM, CULTURE ... training, control, training and much more! What we are most likely to succeed now ... would like the best, it will turn out as always.
    Self-arrows and something worse in the army has manifested itself since the time when the entire system began to "rot" ... morale and everything else, what makes a person a HUMANITY is not an empty phrase!
  10. 0
    5 November 2019 18: 12
    Sense of the short barrel? If you can’t use and apply it. Even in case of attack, robbery, etc.
    (If you defend yourself, they will put you in prison, you will not defend yourself, they will also take away the fine and sing
    In general, it is a good business and market.
  11. +3
    5 November 2019 18: 12
    Quote: Alf
    And I want to ask the opponents, how can shooting by servicemen relate to the legalization of citizens’s weapons?

    I was just going to write this. I completely agree. hi
  12. -7
    5 November 2019 18: 24
    Ukrainians gentlemen, comrade commentators, for example, where there is an abundance of any weapon, and, each his own king and god ....
    1. Alf
      0
      5 November 2019 18: 33
      Quote: Thrifty
      Ukrainians gentlemen, comrade commentators, for example, where there is an abundance of any weapon, and, each his own king and god ....

      They shoot in the streets like in Chicago in the 20s?
      1. -2
        5 November 2019 18: 38
        Alf, you won’t believe it, but there they shoot very often on the streets, used warriors and thugs, with whom their police do not want to get involved. ...
        1. Alf
          0
          5 November 2019 18: 43
          Quote: Thrifty
          Alf, you won’t believe it, but there they shoot very often on the streets, used warriors and thugs, with whom their police do not want to get involved. ...

          And what kind of weapon does the warrior have and from where? Pistols or assault rifles? Purchased officially? On the issue of unwillingness to communicate, I redirect to a state that does not want to restore order, as indeed in Russia.
          1. +1
            5 November 2019 18: 48
            Alf, weapons bought there, and stolen, just sort of really walk the field. ..
            1. Alf
              0
              5 November 2019 18: 48
              Quote: Thrifty
              Alf, weapons bought there, and stolen, just sort of really walk the field. ..

              But there is no official.
    2. +9
      5 November 2019 18: 43
      Quote: Thrifty
      Ukrainians gentlemen, comrade commentators, for example, where there is an abundance of any weapon, and, each his own king and god ....

      And why, neither in Moldova, nor in the Baltic states, did our former compatriots (from the USSR) shoot each other? And before the revolution, there was free sale in RI. It also somehow managed.
      What is wrong with the people again? Already tired of hearing that we are somehow not so moral or what?
      We’ll not shoot, my friends and I are so accurate. There, everyone has several hunting weapons and nothing, somehow surviving. No one has ever thought of it; grabbing it somewhere except hunting. And all because we, like most, are normal sane people. One of me has three hunting units, including a rifled one. Are not afraid? lol
      1. -1
        5 November 2019 18: 56
        Goblin 1975 - the social environment plays not the least. If the state is engaged in the economy, so that it is stable so that the standard of living does not fall, you won’t take up arms, especially since the military most often mobilizes weapons in terms of not grabbing at it when it’s not necessary. And the fact that you have three guns is not interesting to me, because it is purely your right to have hunting weapons in the quantity you need. ...
        1. +1
          5 November 2019 19: 07
          Quote: Thrifty
          Goblin 1975 - the social environment plays not the least. If the state is engaged in the economy, so that it is stable so that the standard of living does not fall, you won’t take up arms, especially since the military most often mobilizes weapons in terms of not grabbing at it when it’s not necessary. And the fact that you have three guns is not interesting to me, because it is purely your right to have hunting weapons in the quantity you need. ...

          About the social environment I agree completely. When the civil war begins, for example, and the state ceases to exercise its functions, no one cares where you got the barrel. People begin to survive, in any way. But so too are extreme circumstances. In a normal environment, citizens tend to abide by the rule of law. You can’t live all the time, according to the laws of wartime. hi
        2. +1
          5 November 2019 23: 23
          Quote: Thrifty
          moreover, the military most often mobilizes weapons in terms of not grabbing at it when this is not necessary

          By the way, I have never heard calls from the warriors to "crush with tanks" and in the same spirit, and there are no supporters of short-barrels among my acquaintances, retirees and employees, there are really two who would like to have a machine gun at home just in case ... When asked why not want - and why? belay Whether it’s a machine gun or a machine gun ...
          1. +1
            7 November 2019 08: 32
            This is because in our Armed Forces (except for the MTR, and even then not everywhere) the role of the short-barrel is purely decorative, it is a "symbol of power" and "to shoot himself." Hence the attitude of the professional military to him is as follows.
      2. +6
        5 November 2019 19: 04
        Quote: Leshy1975
        We’ll not shoot, my friends and I are so accurate.

        even if you have to shoot, then it’s better to be judged by 12 unknown people than by four close friends ...
        And then, you can get out of prison, never, from the grave ...
        The weapon in the hands of a normal person is not in order to kill, but for the fact that he himself remains alive
        1. +3
          5 November 2019 20: 25
          Quote: Silvestr
          Quote: Leshy1975
          We’ll not shoot, my friends and I are so accurate.

          even if you have to shoot, then it’s better to be judged by 12 unknown people than by four close friends ...
          And then, you can get out of prison, never, from the grave ...
          The weapon in the hands of a normal person is not in order to kill, but for the fact that he himself remains alive
          That's right, and here are my conclusions: in our country, legal weapons are evil, because of the legislative and judicial mess that allows prison sentences for real self-defense and protection of third parties. The punishments are the same for killing an attacker with a knife (or other object) or with the use of an illegal barrel. The punishment for an illegal trunk is not added to the punishment for its use - we do not live in America, where they can count a couple of life-long ones, summing up all the points. Then it’s only your choice to buy it or not. hi
        2. 0
          6 November 2019 05: 40
          and how to recognize who is normal and who is not. there are no such devices yet.
    3. +3
      5 November 2019 18: 58
      Quote: Thrifty
      Ukrainians gentlemen, comrade commentators, for example, where there is an abundance of any weapon, and, each his own king and god ....

      from which side is this example?
      1. +1
        5 November 2019 19: 02
        Sylvester, this is a warning to us, so that we do not become like our neighbors under the pretext of security and that we do not become armed savages.
        1. +2
          5 November 2019 19: 05
          Quote: Thrifty
          Sylvester, this is a warning to us, so that we do not become like our neighbors under the pretext of security and that we do not become armed savages.

          Something our authorities do not hear these warnings, but the bells are ringing.
          1. +2
            5 November 2019 19: 09
            Sylvester, it happens that he who has ears plugged them with a cap, or filled with wax, but he can only hear and listen to himself. ...
  13. -7
    5 November 2019 18: 27
    What trauma doesn’t suit you - the same short-barrel?
    Want more powerful-forward to the shooting club!
    And do not compare with the United States ...
  14. -3
    5 November 2019 18: 30
    Right, I'm brushing. All of these weapons are to blame. It's time to think about restricting access in the army to all kinds of shooting things that are dangerous to others. Hundreds of thousands of young people with a fragile psyche have lethal devices within walking distance. Where are the police looking? That’s why they need machine guns, that someone attacked us? Let them be kept under lock and guard by specially trained professionals. And you can work out with a wooden layout. In towns you can play, develops an eye. And the weapons aren’t, only by the police, they even shoot in supermarkets, but this is a necessary risk that you need to take.
    1. Alf
      +1
      5 November 2019 18: 44
      Quote: Ironcity
      the protection of specially trained professionals.

      Who guards the watchmen?
  15. -2
    5 November 2019 18: 49
    Well yes. Let's simplify access to the short-haul gopot and guests from the southern republics. We have so few problems in the country.
    It’s like with the legalization of marijuana while alcoholization of the population (still high, albeit declining). Burnt shed, burn and hut, Th.
    1. Alf
      +3
      5 November 2019 19: 16
      Quote: Durman_54
      Let's simplify access to the short-haul gopot and guests from the southern republics.

      Perhaps it is easier for guests from the south to restrict access to Russia?
      1. +2
        6 November 2019 05: 34
        Since we are talking about science fiction, it’s even easier to create a good police force.
  16. +5
    5 November 2019 19: 02
    Opponents of the legalization of the so-called "short-barrel"


    most of them have permission for "short-barreled" and the short-barreled itself in the pocket.
    As for weapons, in my opinion it is necessary to introduce a ban on injuries and a long barrel, and on the contrary, to allow a short barrel.

    if citizens have the opportunity to keep weapons at home, does this mean that in case of emergency they will have time to dispose of them for self-defense


    the point is not whether they will be able to take advantage or not, but the opportunity to provide them with this chance of salvation.
    1. -4
      5 November 2019 20: 49
      What kind of nonsense are you talking about? Are you not aware that you have the right to keep and carry hunting smooth-bore weapons? Unless you are crazy and not a drug addict or alcoholic. And you have a chance of "salvation" enshrined in the law on weapons. Why do you still need a short barrel? Having a short barrel with you significantly increases the likelihood of catching a bullet, as you will be in the false confidence that your short barrel will protect you and behave accordingly.
      And why would it forbid a smoothbore? How many of the recorded smoothbore kills are committed? Almost zero. Owners of hunting weapons are usually the most law-abiding citizens. At the command of the safes during all kinds of mundiales, they will be remembered by night, locked for a month and a half. For hell forbid it.
      1. +1
        6 November 2019 15: 36
        Are you deliberately misleading or don't you see the difference yourself?
        We are aware that there is a right to own hunting weapons.
        And now, in more detail, what is the right to wear it as a chance "for salvation"?
        Do you even know his mode of wearing? What is this "chance of salvation"?
        Now compare with the assumed short-barrel wearing mode?
        Same? The chance of wearing and using is the same?
        1. -3
          6 November 2019 22: 26
          I can see the difference and I am not misleading anyone. I spent more on training with the short barrel and smooth long barrel than the new Korean runabout is worth. Therefore, I understand a little what I'm talking about. I am of the opinion that the "chance of salvation" is nothing more than self-deception. Do you think that you will have time to snatch the short-barrel and repulse the unexpectedly attacked aggressor? I'll upset you. If you are not Jeri Mikulek, then most likely, when you try to get a weapon, you will be shot by an attacker, who has a pistol with a cartridge in the chamber in his hand, removed from the safety and aimed at you. The topic is well known. In the movie "Proof of Death" is voiced with statistics that the owner of a pistol has a 10 times higher probability of getting a bullet. Don't believe American statistics on this issue? I believe.
          For most people in the street, short-haired will give a false sense of security and provoke "adventure seeking". At the same time, the overwhelming minority of the newly-made owners will attend to the development of skills in handling weapons.
          Do you know many cases when armed "bad" ones were stopped by armed "good" ones? I know. They are extremely insufficient to drown short-barrels for the general arming of the inhabitants. More people will kill each other where before everything would have ended in a massacre. And in the kitchens, as they killed with kitchen knives, they will continue. It's just that a new column will appear in the murder statistics.
          I do not hope to convince you. Your reasons are clear to me. My words are for those who are able to hear arguments and have not yet made up their minds on the issue.
      2. -1
        6 November 2019 22: 30
        Quote: Mephody
        What nonsense are you talking about?


        it's you nonsense. As practice has shown, long barrel is the main weapon of crime in all the mass shootings that occur in all countries of the world.
        All over the country there are millions of pseudo hunters (the very ones who never went to hunt for an animal and will not go) who, under the pretext of hunting, acquire legally, first, a smooth long-barreled barrel, and over time they receive the right to a rifled long barrel. The situation with "traumatics" is generally awful, we will omit the mass redistribution for combat, because almost no one uses permitted cartridges for them, and due to the fact that this type of weapon is not fired, there is no base for it.
        For me, the right to store and wear a long barrel should be nullified if the pseudo-hunter did not go to the beast for 1-2 years.

        How many of the recorded smoothbore kills are committed?


        Remember the Kerch arrow? and so all his weapons were registered and in the Moscow office a clerk several years ago flunked people from registered weapons.
  17. +3
    5 November 2019 19: 06
    Excuse me, but what can you expect from Shamsudinov's father to say: "my nutcase"? On the contrary, he will tell how his son picked up and raised a kitten in some year and the road always turns to green light and at the same time apologizes to the drivers, which delays
  18. -2
    5 November 2019 19: 18
    These arguments are the same bullshit as they were before .... The stovlov buy the notorious marginalized and will wear them legally, and how many accidentally shot people will appear as a result of clarification of the emanations of the next asshole who consider themselves cool. Everyone for the appearance of a short-barreled people, imagine that your children, parents died in a random street shootout ...
    1. +1
      6 November 2019 15: 40
      Cool argument you have!
      With this approach, you probably hold onto any kilometer from any open water!
      To paraphrase you: "Now imagine how many people drown when bathing! And if your loved ones! Forbid bathing!"
      Anything can be promoted with this approach!
  19. +1
    5 November 2019 19: 18
    All that is said about loonies with weapons, legal weapons, is from fear. There are not a large number of robberies, etc. from official weapons. And there are many cases from illegal ones. But a simple kitchen knife is most often a defendant. Or an ax, a stick, a stone, a pipe. And in the army, there are regular soldiers in the army.
    Hazing at conscripts even in thoughts should not be. And if the officer got to blame himself. Authority must be earned, a personal example to educate personnel. soldier
  20. -1
    5 November 2019 19: 23
    What is legalization? You watch videos on YouTube in the subject of road accidents, etc., and in real life, we’ll shoot each other.
    1. 0
      6 November 2019 05: 38
      two men at home. in the winter, such a fight was staged due to the fact that one put the car in the place of the other. if they had trunks that would be.
      1. +1
        7 November 2019 13: 08
        There would be nothing. Would shout at each other and dispersed. Get in the face or get a bullet - is it the same thing? And to give in the face or shoot and sit down for ten years - is this also the same?
        1. 0
          8 November 2019 05: 18
          Who knows. weapons are such a thing. someone might have unnecessary bravado. grab a .invest. and the second answer. How to shoot from injuries. People are all different.
  21. +6
    5 November 2019 19: 36
    Opponents of the legalization of "gunshot" have new arguments after the shooting of the military in Transbaikalia

    Are you seriously discussing this issue here? What are the "opponents"? What legalization? Are you seriously? Do you even know how many people in the country "have the right" to keep weapons at home? There are hundreds of thousands of them across the country! If not more. The whole question is that the government may not resist against people with weapons. At one time I did not manage to cope with the pitchfork, but with the weapon .. And one more very interesting point must be taken into account. How then will the servants and people of the Caucasian nationalities differ from ordinary mortals, who have literally captured all levels of power and authoritative circles? Forget it. No one, under the current regime, will allow to have weapons and dispose of them as they please. Well, and such not unimportant moment as the mentality of the population .. In general, this is a utopia. In the Russian Federation, people are still fooled by the news that in the evil USA, evil policemen are shooting at everyone .. But here we have! True, no one thinks that the US, the probability of getting a queue from UZI point-blank, on a simple question, or maybe your documents, is hundreds of times less than in those very evil USA.
    1. +2
      5 November 2019 20: 51
      Do you even know how many people in the country "have the right" to keep weapons at home? There are hundreds of thousands of them across the country!

      Do you even know what the population is in the country? More than 140 million, by the way. And what percentage are those "hundreds of thousands" who have the right to keep weapons at home? There are hundreds of thousands of servicemen alone, and even more employees of other law enforcement agencies. Even not all of them, it turns out, have the right to their own weapons. Isn't this insanity?
  22. +8
    5 November 2019 19: 41
    legalization of a gunshot has one but invincible opponent - article 114 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (exceeding self-defense and causing harm to health)
    and while this article exists, all legalization is stupid and meaningless, the use of weapons is useless if it is NOT applicable
    1. -2
      6 November 2019 01: 34
      Barmaleka why is legalization stupid and pointless!?
      You know how much money this 114 article will bring to cops!? There millions of Zakharchenko were not standing nearby !!!!
  23. +4
    5 November 2019 19: 41
    I have long been convinced that any, even the most robust, idea can be brought to insanity! If desired, of course. What does this case have to do with the legalization of firearms ?!
    Well, in Naryan-Mar, a man stabbed a child. Let everyone who buys knives in the store - immediately arrest! What? !! Suddenly (!!!) he buys a knife to kill someone? !!!
    And those who buy guns in the store, so generally a rhinestone "life imprisonment"! Immediately! Without trial and investigation! fool Marasmus? I agree, insanity. What about the article? negative
    1. +3
      5 November 2019 19: 48
      Quote: senima56
      Let everyone who buys knives in the store - immediately arrest!

      the most common murder weapon
  24. 0
    5 November 2019 20: 28
    Quote: lexus
    Among the policemen is also full of scumbags and inadequate. But, for some reason, the opponents of the short-barrel are not going to take it from them.

    Basil hi - they are the support of the regime and the "blank" wall separating the chic "get-together" from the "always dissatisfied" people with something.
    The current government will never agree to legalize "firearms", because for it it will be a death sentence. People simply will not seek truth and protection in impartial and independent courts only on paper, but will resolve issues on the spot. And who in our country today behaves like a pig towards ordinary people with absolutely impunity? Right! wink

    Lynching court, come on right away laughing
  25. -2
    5 November 2019 20: 41
    What nonsense? Citizens of the Russian Federation have a completely legal way to keep at home up to 5 units of hunting smoothbore. For those who doubt, I advise you to read the Law on Weapons and shoot at a shooting range from a 12-gauge rolling rifle.
    That is, for many, many years, anyone who wants to be an adult citizen of the Russian Federation who has passed through a psychiatrist and narcologist can acquire a perfectly legal carbine, whose short-term firepower exceeds that of the AK-74.
    So in terms of the possibility of arranging a "Columbine" for the citizens of the Russian Federation, hands are not tied at all. Of course, permission to own a short-barreled gun (which will never be) will lead to a minor increase in the number of homicides with the use of registered weapons. But the overall picture will not change. You don't have to go far for examples. In a number of former Soviet republics, short-barreled ownership is allowed. Despite the fact that, unlike the Russian Federation, the possession of a rifled long-barreled hunting weapon may be prohibited there.
    Despite the foregoing, and a love of weapons, I am opposed to permission to own and carry a short barrel. For all the goals that come to my mind, a smooth-bore hunting is enough.
  26. +2
    5 November 2019 20: 44
    This case can be pulled to the circulation of civilian weapons only by the ears. Even using it as an argument to deprive military personnel of access to weapons (in fact, this has long actually happened - most conscripts hold it in their hands several times for the entire service, and officers go to the garrison patrol with an empty holster) is less nonsense than that. And what? Out-of-service guard duty in parts of private security companies, and the military - to do what they are now mostly doing, that is, housekeeping and combat training.
    1. Alf
      0
      5 November 2019 21: 14
      Quote: UAZ 452
      Guard service in the units of private security companies

      And who are PSCs? Yesterday's bandits, only legalized.
      1. -1
        5 November 2019 21: 27
        [B] [/ b]
        Quote: Alf
        And who are PSCs? Yesterday's bandits, only legalized.

        still cops in retirement.
        1. Alf
          0
          5 November 2019 21: 34
          Quote: Stroporez
          still cops in retirement.

          There are no former cops.
        2. 0
          6 November 2019 00: 13
          Wow. Yes, there are most military men, especially your type, when it’s impossible to work with the brain
  27. -2
    5 November 2019 21: 10
    I think the first couple of years there will be chaos with weapons, but then everything will sharply become cultural
    1. Alf
      +3
      5 November 2019 21: 36
      Quote: lestad
      I think the first couple of years there will be chaos with weapons, but then everything will sharply become cultural

      The most interesting thing is that for some reason the opponents firmly believe that if 1 numbers allow the free sale of weapons, then on 2 numbers the whole country will rush to arms stores. What this confidence is based on is personally for me a great secret.
      1. -1
        5 November 2019 22: 30
        Quote: Alf
        if 1 numbers allow free sale of weapons, then on 2 numbers the whole country will rush to arms stores.

        In the post-war years, the population had weapons in their hands, like emptying behind a bathhouse, but there were no armed crimes, as in our time. Paradox.
        1. +1
          6 November 2019 00: 17
          Give statistics in support. I personally looked at old operational matters (professionals will understand what I mean). Sling, Gangs were in that period, Gangs! And they dealt with them by the mid-60s, they started to decline. Therefore, departments to combat banditry existed. Enough everywhere to post their alien slogans from ignorance.
          1. -1
            6 November 2019 00: 40
            Roundabout (Alexey) Enough to pull the owl on the globe stop The fact that the gangs were a fact. Did you do it? Yes, they did it, taking into account the whole post-war gunshot on hand! But they did it because the cops were different and people were different.
            In the Soviet period, banditry was over, and now banditry or organized crime groups, if you like, were elevated to the rank of another more status organization. Kuschevka stretching to the very top is that? In Maskvastan, nadis, a couple of eshniks banged with control, is that how?
            And you didn’t understand what you read in the old operational affairs, not everyone is given patmushta Yes So sit still, get a pension, secluded from my parents ’pensions, and now mine, vote for Putin and protect Magnitopatyarochukuoshanarafshan laughing
            Threat. I won’t even put you cons, Boys will understand ....
            1. +1
              6 November 2019 05: 32
              and that under the USSR there were no gangs or something. or thieves. if we didn’t know all the information then. this does not mean that it was not. remember the gang of the fat man. made weapons themselves. . The people we ourselves have become different and have long been. . therefore, Kushchevka and racketeers and corrupt servants of the Law appeared.
            2. -4
              6 November 2019 09: 40
              Quote: Stroporez
              sit still, get a pension, secluded from the pensions of my parents, and now mine, vote for Putin and protect the magnetic five

              laughing Wow, how the hero of the underground parted! Mom’s folder knows what you’re doing here? Benefactor lol
      2. -1
        6 November 2019 05: 34
        Well, if not the second, then the first months will be a stir. for sure .. only the WTO, as during a two-year lawlessness, you can’t die from an accidental shot and don’t lose children.
  28. +3
    5 November 2019 21: 16
    The point is not in weapons, but in what is happening in a person’s skull, and you can kill with your bare hands and a stone, but this is not a reason to prohibit these objects.

    It's a shame that because of such inadequate characters, bunnies are wrapped.
  29. +3
    5 November 2019 21: 38
    The police are against it because they like to trade weapons themselves.
    1. 0
      6 November 2019 00: 46
      Show me the gun dealer who likes it)
  30. +2
    5 November 2019 22: 33
    Looking at how responsibly our fellow citizens use, for example, their suffrage - I want to protect them from any dangerous trinkets. Excuse me. Can you imagine the level of responsibility of an individual who voted, for example, for a dog? For Sobyanina? For Yeltsin? Yes, I saw in a nightmare a weapon suitable for hidden carrying in the hands of such comrades.
    1. -1
      6 November 2019 01: 36
      So maybe we'll go through "natural selection" faster, it's a pity only for the victims on the part of normal people ..
      1. 0
        6 November 2019 04: 00
        Quote: Roman 57 rus
        So maybe we will go through "natural selection" faster

        Selection to where?
  31. +2
    6 November 2019 00: 42
    At all times, until now, weapons were not only favorable to slaves, draw conclusions, gentlemen. A son (with a weapon) of some mayor in our country will love his son (with a weapon) of some kind of turner .. (but will he be alive ???). Until there is a law equal for everyone to talk about it - a simple concussion.
    1. 0
      6 November 2019 05: 28
      the mayor’s son will be to the right without a weapon. and that the mayor’s son be punished. we must all be human beings. or that you will not protect your child. even if he’s guilty .. so there’s nothing to do with whose son he is.
  32. -2
    6 November 2019 01: 25
    If the population will protect itself, it means that all privileges should be removed from the cops, they want to fulfill their duties, thereby undermining the internal policy of the state itself !!!
    First, cops have decreased income drug addicts are dying drug sales have decreased like crimes committed by drug addicts no disclosure no titles !!!!
    And so they came up with multi-paths such as Permission to fire a fire, shootings up and, accordingly, wealthy people (the poor will not buy a barrel) will be subject to investigation and prisons from investigators and FSIN guards will increase.
    Secondly, there is a parallel propaganda in the media about the fact that victims of road accidents can and should be made as guilty as possible, as an example Drunk children shot and killed in traffic accidents and everyone repeats
    CHILDREN ARE GUILTY !!!!
    All this is for the sake of motorists, people get rich buy rights and cars and cannot drive according to the rules and they must be "bred for grandmothers" as they commit a great variety of resonant accidents that must be justified FOR MONEY !!!!!
    And you and I would not be indignant until we knock ourselves in the yard or on the sidewalk !!!! (((((
  33. +2
    6 November 2019 01: 58
    It is not a matter of legalizing or banning civilian weapons, the fact is that they have long been in full possession of scumbags, with the Ministry of Internal Affairs absolutely impotent in all areas of activity. And all these conversations, if he had a gun ... in favor of the poor.
    Hammer
    It was always full
    And the police have enough killings
    And how many of them on the street ??? !!!!
    Lately I haven’t let my family go. Better than me.
    Do you all really think that the police work ??? I don’t want to upset you, but they only work on cases that have the prospect of disclosure !!! Not warning offenses, namely the prospect of disclosure! Everything else is archived! The papers are shifting. Here is their real job!
    You just can’t imagine how many paper files the trail has. Solid bureaucracy. When do they do business ?!
  34. -1
    6 November 2019 02: 05
    Again we began to "talk nonsense"! Take the United States ... perhaps the most "weapon-loving" country, with "wonderful" laws for "weapon lovers" ... But, for some reason, it is from there that reports of mass shootings and showdowns with use more often come " personal "weapon! So it turns out that the question: How many people in America were protected by laws on the free acquisition and possession of weapons remains open!
    1. -1
      6 November 2019 03: 33
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      So it turns out that the question is: How many in America were protected by laws on the free acquisition and possession of weapons, remains open!

      Torn off the tongue. After I posted my post, I saw yours.
  35. +3
    6 November 2019 03: 27
    The recent murder of the ex-governor. A man with a trunk came out and protected his family, and also saved one criminal. It is a pity that at the cost of his life. And if he didn’t have weapons, imagine what would happen to him and his family. And others. The head of the department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs was killed along with his brother, there were no weapons. They could not defend themselves.
    1. -1
      6 November 2019 19: 41
      Opponents of the weapon would prefer not to respond to such comments.
      Well, like they don’t see him at all and that’s it
  36. -1
    6 November 2019 03: 32
    There is no need to argue about how many thugs with weapons in our country. It is necessary to turn to the official statistics of the country where it is more common than anywhere else. Namely, to the static deaths from "household, etc." shootouts in the United States. In the United States, shooting in the streets annually kills more people than their own military personnel in "hot spots". And that's all there is to know about civilian short-handed.
    Those who need it will easily find these police statistics. For fidelity, it is quite possible to multiply it by 1,5, or even more, since it does not reflect the number of people shot by the police themselves.

    I repeat. We have a lot of scumbags or not a lot, but if you allow the secretive wearing of a short barrel on the street, shooting between civilians will become commonplace. And the police will immediately catch up and also begin to naughty indiscriminately (such as being proactive, as in the same states). I never doubt it, nor that the state should have the right to violence ONLY.
    1. +1
      6 November 2019 05: 07
      the right to violence should be ONLY with the state.
      Similarly, provided that the state itself is a state and not a criminal community mimicking it. This happens in the world too .. winked
      1. 0
        8 November 2019 05: 40
        Quote: DEPHIHTO
        provided that the state itself is a state and not a criminal community mimicking it. This happens in the world too ..

        Pardon ...
        Your position is convenient. It seems like all this came out, in a brown suit and at the same time, white and fluffy.)))
        As for me, it rarely happens otherwise. Those. what you are talking about is more likely an exception to the rule in the modern world.
    2. -2
      6 November 2019 19: 40
      Well, here already in the comments posted detailed statistics and not only in the United States, and statistics are not at all in favor of your opinion
    3. 0
      8 November 2019 05: 41
      Something tells me that just the same scumbags are minus. But to turn to the US statistics, they still seem to be a bit of a bitch. But this is not difficult and clear.
      Last year, in Chicago alone, several hundred people died from a civilian short-barreled gun. And this is not gangster fighters, times of Prohibition.
      Think about it. Think about the fact that your children on the street can get hit by bullets, only because someone missed, thinking that he can protect himself.
      By the way, I myself am not bad at shooting from different types. But I know for sure that the formula, "I saw a drunk - move away", works better than the ability to kick him in the head with a tire iron.
      I went to the 90 with a piano string (there was a time, there were reasons known to everyone), a down jacket tore up meat. It’s good that those days are over. But even then he did not think about the trunk in his pocket. Exactly whom the thread would shoot, although it was always distributing, in conflict situations.
  37. +1
    6 November 2019 04: 04
    The article "Bring it all together" - I did not understand under what affairs the Ministry of Defense and the legalization of weapons among the population !? Yes, and take away from the Ministry of Internal Affairs, there is OMON there is the National Guard - to leave only to the special units.
  38. -3
    6 November 2019 05: 23
    that will give a gun in your pocket, imaginary protection and confidence. and the law. and where are the guarantees that tomorrow. arguing whose car should be here. they do not shoot each other, and worse than that, they can also kill an accidental passerby. Well, a man has a gun. You are walking down the street to work. Before you is one - three people. are standing. what to do. get the barrel and shout in the side of his hands up. or pass by, but then you don’t have time to react to the attack ... you go home to meet the type. he shouted hey stand and hand in his pocket. what do you shoot ... and he climbed out for a cigarette. and not shoot first, he will pull out his barrel and that's it. . and collectors may not go into your apartment. and near the house to watch over your wife or child. than the gun will help you.
  39. 0
    6 November 2019 08: 44
    What does glasnost do with us? Now, in a dispute about justice, about politics, they are ready to fill each other’s faces. And here we have weapons. A phobia is the result of glasnost. A fearful person will always use it first. Only because they are afraid of what a person can do if he rises.
  40. +2
    6 November 2019 09: 33
    The main detail of any weapon is the head of its owner, it is an indisputable truth.
    But with these details in the country there are a number of certain problems.
    The thing is that with the onset of "democracy", in connection with some fears of the authorities, mass shooting galleries and places where citizens who did not have their own weapons could simply come and shoot at targets from the same airborne were simply erased in Russia ...
    Massively eliminated rifle sports sections at enterprises and in public institutions.
    The resulting vacuum began to be filled with all kinds of legally and illegally imported and sold "shooters" from disposable Chinese CO-shniks to Turkish pneumatics.
    For some time, the shooting population, brought up under socialism, treated this "weapon" with the necessary respect and observance of security measures.
    But now, as early as a dozen years, the generation that grew up on computer shooters has grown up. And this is striking, most of the "free shooters" that do not give it to their hands, will definitely try on neighbors, starting with cats and ending with shelling public transport and others like them, calling this dubious entertainment hardball.
    This, in fact, is already a serious pathology associated with the misunderstanding that the weapon is still a weapon, even if the handle has 12 grams of spray can.
    After all, there is no education, therefore, more and more often, various kinds of surveillance and security services prevent, or do not have time to prevent, various kinds of shooting incidents.
    In order to massively legalize a weapon, no matter what, in our conditions it is necessary to tackle brain rule, instilling an understanding of what it is and for what and what could be the consequences, a weapon is not only an opportunity, but it is also a responsibility.
    After all, they are going to train in driving schools in a similar way, and here it is the same.
    To give any weapon into the hands of a person on the basis of a medical certificate is simply irresponsible nowadays.
    Now I do not want to take the side of not opponents, not supporters of the legalization of weapons, each side has "iron" arguments.
    But law enforcement and legislative bodies are in this case the arbitrators in this dispute, there is an increasing volume of dangerous use of weapons in the country, therefore, in order to avoid a complete ban on the state’s possession and use by its citizens, it is necessary to organize the education of the right attitude to weapons, starting from the childhood age.
    The possession of a weapon should be based on a culture of its use, based on a thorough psychological preparation of the owner.
    You can’t give weapons into the hands of a person who is simply physically healthy and convict.
  41. +1
    6 November 2019 11: 41
    The very case of the shooting of servicemen in Transbaikalia became the reason for new discussions about whether it makes sense to legalize firearms in Russia. Opponents of the legalization of the so-called "short-barrel" use the described case for their own purposes. In particular, it is noted that if a soldier who has the right to carry firearms and who has passed a number of medical commissions can tear down the roof, then in the civilian environment there will be many dubious individuals who will have access to weapons, and when in their heads “Something closes”, they also decide to use it immediately - for example, against offenders or those with whose opinion they disagree
    those who use this incident as an argument against legalization are inadequate.
    and that in a strange way, not a single commission prior to conscription for military service revealed any aggressive signs of behavior in his son.
    Here is the main reason
  42. 0
    6 November 2019 12: 47
    If you think about the consequences of permitting the purchase and carrying a firearm, it becomes pleasant in the soul.
    YATD, that a couple of millions (not the best representatives of mankind) of citizens went to the country, 3-4 more lyam in jail.
    But this war will radically change Russian society for the better, and we must go through it.
  43. Kaw
    -3
    6 November 2019 13: 33
    This case speaks FOR the legalization of weapons. The man who passed through all the filters and the state entrusted him with the weapon, used it for other purposes. The same thing happened with Major Evsyukov. And if one of the visitors to the supermarket had a gun, then there would be fewer victims of Yevsyukov.
    In countries where it is not forbidden for the population to have weapons, mortality from criminal causes is much lower. The Soviet government took away our weapons, before that we had no bans.
  44. -3
    6 November 2019 15: 14
    In general, why would anyone need a short barrel, especially under our legislation ?? Injury will solve all problems and you will not be imprisoned if self-defense is exceeded, because most likely you will not kill from an injury. And there will be no casualties. I myself really like pistols, but I am categorically against the population having it.
  45. 0
    6 November 2019 15: 14
    Well, now what are we going to disarm the army with the police ?! Or is it better for those who are most afraid to turn to psychiatrists and drink sedatives ?! Order in the army needs to be put in place, that's what you need to think about! Everything from non-statutory relationships and from the fact that officers do not watch at night in units, as expected, but flee home, or to women ... and Pushkin to serve for them ...
  46. -2
    6 November 2019 16: 00
    Previously, everything was more honest, it was directly stated that the weapons were not laid down for slaves, slaves, and any others whom they want to control and exploit with impunity.
    But the owner always had the right to weapons!
    Now it has been masked, moreover, in the most interesting and profitable way: you are limited people, drunkards, inadequate people and so on.
    And many agree with this voluntarily, of course, excluding themselves by default, but around me there are definitely some "limited, drunkards, inadequate", they cannot have weapons.
    Meekly repeating what the "smart guy" said to them on TV.
    I would like to ask you friends, acquaintances, relatives, except limited ones, drunkards, inadequate people, or is it just such an environment that prompts such conclusions?
    One case of "inadequacy" is presented as the norm, you see all our people are like "born inadequate" !, but a bunch of others are hushed up, misinterpreted!
    For example, not so long ago, they killed a commando who stood up for the people being killed by a crowd, I think he knew how to use a combat pistol, but he didn’t have one! Here is the result!
    And, probably, in your opinion, a necessary sacrifice for the sake of preserving the ban on the short barrel, is it so?
  47. -1
    7 November 2019 07: 57
    While Vova and the company are at the helm, as well as such figures as Khinshtein, there is no trace of our lovers and simply preoccupied with their safety people. I want to remind you that after shooting in the Crimea, Vova told the Rosguards to take toughening measures and they took by permission for weapons.
  48. -3
    7 November 2019 14: 59
    That's how interesting it is, everything from hoplophobes who are opponents of the civilian short-barrel in Russia is good. Armed self-defense is prohibited, even imprisoned for unarmed self-defense. The government is only concerned with infringing on the owners of permitted weapons. Supporters of the short-barreled can only express their opinion, and even then not in every media outlet. But the hoplophobes are still scared, do not feed them with bread, but give me at least some reason to pull them in order to justify themselves for their fears. About such people, centuries-old folk wisdom very accurately said - the cat smells, whose meat has eaten ... And so the hoplophobes in their hearts constantly feel the shame and ultimate doom of their views.