Military Review

Will there be humans fighting robots?

46
While in Russia they are discussing with enthusiasm all sorts of interesting products (Poseidons, Petrels and Nudoli), another wave of futuroshock is rolling in the West, associated with fears that combat robots developed in the bowels of American companies associated with DARPA and military industrial complex, as if in the future they can ... there are people.




This is an Energetically Autonomous Tactical Robot (EATR) project, launched in 2003 by Robotic Technologies, Inc. and Cyclone Power Technologies, Inc. for the needs of the American army. Although the project was stopped in the 2015 year, however, noise around it rolled a few years later. Director of Cyclone Power Technologies, Inc. Harry Schoel was even forced to make excuses that he shared the concern of the public, however, the creation of robots that can eat people is not the mission of his company.

Will there be humans fighting robots?

The overall look of the EATR


Even the president of Russia Vladimir Putin was dragged to this company. The British newspaper The Sun, 22 of September 2017, published a short article stating that Putin had asked the head of Yandex, Arkady Volozh, when these robots would "eat us." Volozh answered: "I hope never." It is not difficult, however, to verify that in reality, during Putin’s visit to Yandex, it was about artificial intelligence, and not robots eating humans at all. All the same, what a spreading cranberry the British newspaper treats its readers!

A bit about the EATR project


This is a robot, the power plant of which is an advanced version of the steam engine - the Cyclone Waste Heat Engine, a six-cylinder radial engine that, as its creators write, can convert 146,5 kW of thermal energy into 10 kW of electric energy. The design of the engine is similar to a radial aviation engine. The necessary steam is generated not in the boiler, but in a metal tube rolled into a tight coil, which is placed inside the combustion chamber, in which any liquid fuel burns; but there is also a version for wood fuel - pellets. Steam is supplied to the ends of the cylinders, leaves the crankcase with a crankshaft, partially condensed there, and then the gas-vapor mixture is discharged through the outlet pipe. The rotation of the engine drives an electric power generator. The electricity stored in the batteries is used to set the robot in motion and power its equipment.


This is the engine assembly and during testing. In addition to the 6 cylinder version, the company is also working on an 12 cylinder engine



This is a steam generator installed above the fuel combustion chamber. This unit does not have a steam boiler. Developers also tested a solar heater to produce steam in such a steam generator.


Judging by the video published by the developers, the power plant turned out to be very compact. The engine is about 50 cm in diameter, the entire installation is about 1,2 meters high. But still not so compact as to install it on a small robot. However, on the prototype, the creators did not particularly strive for compactness.

To heat the steam generator, the development companies assumed a wide variety of fuels: gasoline, kerosene, vegetable oil, and even solar energy. Chicken fat also appeared in the list of fuels, but in general, the developers in their advertising talked about the use of biomass. Like, a robot can independently produce fuel for itself, like a living organism, which would be the equivalent of eating. Further, the developers became victims of their own advertising, because the public understood this all so that the project involves devouring the corpses of people. After all, this is a combat robot, autonomous, and here also chicken fat in the list of fuels. If a robot can use chicken fat, why can't it use, say, fat from the human body?

In my opinion, it’s not very clear where this hysteria came from. Judging by what the developers presented, it was a question of a robot self-procuring organic fuel, primarily wood. In principle, the robot can be equipped with a device for cutting and chopping small trees, branches, shrubs, and loading chopped wood pulp into the feed hopper. Such an automatic machine would be very useful for all kinds of autonomous devices operating in a wooded area, including for military purposes. It is unlikely that on the basis of this engine you can build a compact autonomous robot, as the creators swung. But it’s quite possible to make an energy center for robots, which will recharge their batteries: a kind of self-propelled harvester that works in cycles. Part of the time it stands still and produces electricity (as well as hot water; but the project provides for a closed cycle of water circulation), and the other part of the time travels around the neighborhood and produces fuel for itself, then returning to the starting point.

This is an interesting idea for the military economy of a large and protracted war in which there has been no oil for a long time, since oil fields and oil refineries have long been burned up by enemy attacks. Such a plant, powered by the most affordable and low-grade fuel, can provide electricity for a wide variety of needs. In times of world wars such a device would quickly find application.

Will it be so or not?


In my opinion, fighting robots will not eat people, and for purely technical reasons. Even if such a power plant is reduced and made denser in layout, having achieved a significant reduction in geometric dimensions and weight, nevertheless, it takes a lot of heat to bring it into action. It is relatively easy to obtain from burning fossil fuels. But the corpses of animals and people, as is well known, are not suitable as fuel, because for the most part they are composed of water, and the mass of dry, combustible material is relatively small. You can try to consider other methods, for example, the oxidation of fats, proteins and carbohydrates without burning. Theoretically, a gram of fat gives 4,1 kcal, and in order to boil a liter of water from room temperature, it takes only 8,7 grams of vegetable oil or other fat. However, as far as one can judge, methods for generating energy, or at least a significant thermal effect, from these substances without burning them have not yet appeared. This is probably possible, but not available right now.

But the main argument against this is that trees, shrubs, various herbs are almost everywhere, and in large quantities. Harvesting wood pulp is easier. In addition, other combustible substances can be used: household waste, plastic, rubber, and so on. The procurement of these fuels gives a reliable and highly predictable result. And people - go and catch it first.
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  1. DEDPIHTO
    DEDPIHTO 2 November 2019 04: 29 New
    +6
    Mdya, I understand that it was Friday Friday, but not to the same extent .. lol It would be better to write an article on topical issues .. no, no, not about Ukraine and Syria, these bonds have already filled a decent soreness. Something about the role of the party in the development of the country, achievements in labor and economy, the introduction of new methods of management .. fellow Yesterday I did not drink, if that, but today is not yet evening .. yes laughing
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 2 November 2019 04: 43 New
      +1
      hot topics

      In this case, the government is clearly reworking. Let VO rest at least on weekends from the squabble.
      1. DEDPIHTO
        DEDPIHTO 2 November 2019 04: 47 New
        -1
        Quote: lexus
        hot topics

        In this case, the government is clearly reworking.
        Yeah, where are some robots before our government and the EP party. crying
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 2 November 2019 04: 57 New
          0
          The laws are not written to the government. And the party came out "protocol" ...
        2. Kuroneko
          Kuroneko 2 November 2019 06: 25 New
          +5
          Quote: DEPHIHTO
          Yeah, where are some robots before our government and the EP party.

          It's right. There are still cannibals sitting there. To their efficiency robots as to the moon on foot.
          1. dauria
            dauria 2 November 2019 22: 59 New
            +2
            To their efficiency robots as to the moon on foot


            In fact, humans are not such an efficient heat engine. Universal - yes. It generates only 200 watts of fur in the "tourist" mode. power. Here, perhaps, doctors could tell better.
            And so I once considered. Compare the source of human energy with kerosene. This is what it looks like
            Hydrolysis of macroergic bonds of the ATP molecule, accompanied by the cleavage of 1 or 2 phosphoric acid residues,
            leads to the release, according to various sources, from 40 to 60 kJ / mol.
            Molar mass 507,18 g / mol
            ATP + H2O> ADP + H3PO4 + energy
            ADP + H2O> AMP + H3PO4 + energy
            So, we get 1-80 kJ per 120 kg of ATF
            For Kerosene 1 kg - 43500 kJ
            but kerosene needs oxygen 3.18 kg of oxygen per 1 kg of kerosene
            honestly reduce the figure for kerosene 43500 / 4.18 = 10287 kJ
            Still 100 times better than ATP
            But it is an "anaerobic" oxygen-free engine. True, the supply of ATP is small - for a hundred meters. Then you have to breathe, burn fats and drag these formulas in the opposite direction at the expense of energy. Stupid two-stage system. Although with the possibility of recuperation.
  2. Far B
    Far B 2 November 2019 04: 33 New
    0
    Will there be humans fighting robots?
    Kaneshno will! People’s sheep ate (England, XNUMXth century), why wouldn’t human robots have something to eat? In any case, they will definitely be beating people up - I myself read at Azimov. But Azimov is not a khukh-mukhrya; he discovered the three laws of robotics and is included in the top three masters of fiction.
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 2 November 2019 04: 37 New
      -1
      Kaneshno will!

      I am ready to provide them with the "first protocol", but I'm afraid they will choke on them)
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 2 November 2019 04: 44 New
        0
        "Finished" progress - even sounds harsh.
  3. Lexus
    Lexus 2 November 2019 04: 34 New
    0
    Will there be humans fighting robots?

    Why do they need it? "Iron" to dilute with shit? And to multiply the probability of refusal by the "human factor"? Not, if the world is captured, then all biomass will be sent for fertilization. They will start with the most advanced ones)))
    1. Petrix
      Petrix 19 November 2019 09: 46 New
      0
      Quote: lexus
      To dilute the "iron" with shit?

      Do not dilute, but receive energy from it. Thus, it is logical that robots will try to feed people for waste growth, i.e. energy for yourself, or ... instead of people, raise pigs as a more efficient fuel-generating tool.
  4. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 2 November 2019 05: 58 New
    +6
    Gospidya! Escho and man-eating robots for our "adventures" are not enough ... according to "some" authors! This is how you can bring such an article to a person who comes home from work and complains to a neighbor that at work his "boss gnaws", "colleagues are trying to devour", at home "his wife and mother-in-law are eating"! Then he sits down at the computer ... and there, "man-eating robots"! Save and have mercy on me, lord!
    1. DEDPIHTO
      DEDPIHTO 2 November 2019 06: 21 New
      0
      laughing Instead of the computer, turn on the frially-bonded TV channels and rest-under-, ,, evening M ,,
  5. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 2 November 2019 06: 13 New
    +5
    Mdaaa ... There were cars on wood-fired "gas generators", and now they promise "robots on wood"! Your deeds are inscrutable, Lord! request
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 2 November 2019 08: 50 New
      +6
      Why were you? There is!
      1. volodimer
        volodimer 2 November 2019 20: 09 New
        -1
        An article about a robot that "eats" organics and about "Will war robots eat humans?" was in the magazine "Popular Mechanics" a few years ago, there were given both the engine diagrams and conclusions.
        Which, of course, is unethical and "it means it won't." Yep, Americans care about ethics. if possible, it will be. Only low efficiency stops them. By the way, unlike what is presented in the video, for their engine, just organic matter in the form of meat is an order of magnitude superior to wood, there is a different way of processing and the fact that "the mass of dry, combustible substance is relatively small" is not a problem. I remember that the article indicated that food waste is the best raw material: there is no solid structure, the processes have already decomposed the raw material into simple components, in general, a nutritious broth is ready, and corpses or cellulose are unnecessary energy consumption for cooking food.
        And Doc Brown was right. laughing
  6. Kuroneko
    Kuroneko 2 November 2019 06: 19 New
    +4
    But the corpses of animals and people, as is well known, are not suitable as fuel, because for the most part they are composed of water, and the mass of dry, combustible material is relatively small.

    What prevents the carcass from drying well beforehand, using for this the inevitable heat loss of the engine - i.e. that dissipated heat, which actually does not do any useful work? So it will prepare the corpse for further use by evaporating water from it. Then the already dried organic matter is sent to the ftopka, in its place we throw in another "raw" muddy and te de and te pe. It's just that such a robot needs to fit a conveyor-dryer. Heat is essentially free - on the contrary, the efficiency will even grow, because heating the engine, being previously useless and even harmful (which is why they put radiators on the engines), will now carry out the necessary process, preparing the next portion of human flesh / dog meat / cat meat / anyone.
  7. parusnik
    parusnik 2 November 2019 06: 29 New
    0
    This is an interesting idea for the military economy of a large and protracted war in which there has been no oil for a long time, since oil fields and refineries have long been burned up by enemy attacks.
    ..... It turns out that not only children live in a virtual world where there are several lives and you can save or restore life ...
  8. Cartalon
    Cartalon 2 November 2019 06: 30 New
    +2
    Finally, there are lots of places on the planet where there are no trees, and people are just a fig, so soon everything will be
  9. nikvic46
    nikvic46 2 November 2019 07: 40 New
    0
    In principle, a robot can be taught anything based on the education of scientists and their superiors. But the main goal of an army robot is to recognize the level of radiation and poisonous gases. And even robots themselves can do decontamination, degassing. But so far, robots cannot recognize any smell or taste, it’s too early to talk about it. The described robot in the article is rather some kind of aggregate.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 2 November 2019 09: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: nikvic46
      The main goal of an army robot is to recognize the level of radiation, poisonous gases. And even the robots themselves to do decontamination, degassing.

      This is still degassing with deactivation. However, autonomous trucks are already driving along the Israeli border, which so far are only monitoring and transmitting the situation. But to put on them machine guns with automatic guidance on, say, a motion sensor is nothing complicated, such were in the last century on the Berlin Wall. And it seems like somewhere I read that Armata, in principle, could do without a crew, choose the best route myself, track the goals myself, and make decisions about what, what, and in what order to hit. It’s just that for now people are afraid to entrust automation with the decision to open fire to defeat people, and these considerations are not so much technical as a moral plan. Well, political correctness also bothers: they say, rich white people will send combat robots from comfortable offices in their prosperous countries to poor non-white people, who, unfortunate, have neither technology nor money, so you have to fight old-fashioned killer robots .
      But sooner or later they will come to this. And generally correct. If war, then let robots kill robots, preferably away from populated areas. Or at least away from civilized places.
  10. Alexander X
    Alexander X 2 November 2019 08: 04 New
    0
    The idea of ​​robots working on "humans" is not new. Everything has long been described in detail in the series of books "Kremlin 2222". They describe how the robots that survived after 3 MV were recharged with organic matter and, by the way, a service robot was always attached to a combat robot ... he dragged the "gruel" to the master ...
  11. Jerk
    Jerk 2 November 2019 08: 31 New
    -1
    Western "civilization" is growing ...
    The funny thing is that there is a rational grain in it - getting energy by the type of living creatures, and namely predators - would be ideal, the same ATP and glycogen by energy intensity ... Any gas tank and battery rest in a corner and in tears. But such technologies are stupidly not and is not expected wink
  12. Revolver
    Revolver 2 November 2019 08: 45 New
    +4
    If there is a war, then there will be corpses, and they must be put out somewhere, otherwise unsanitary conditions. So why not cremate with the generation of electricity?
    1. max702
      max702 3 November 2019 11: 41 New
      0
      Exactly! Corpses are not corny are a VERY big problem! Both morally ethical and the practical side of hostilities .. It’s not easy to kill a person, especially when he’s nearby and then the job of disposing of a strong blow to the psyche, the roof goes sooner or later, with staff problems .. Why do you think there is a massive introduction of remote wars , it’s not difficult to kill from a bomber, just like from a cannon, the results of the culprit are not observed, it’s not the infantry to clean the area, but what a problem with civilians .. They are not needed! From the word at all .. And someone should do this work especially disposal .. It’s not difficult to kill everyone, even now it can be done remotely, but to clean after that .. That's what robots are doing for this ..
  13. Ros 56
    Ros 56 2 November 2019 09: 10 New
    +3
    Yes, apparently Friday was a success. Zhelezyaki organics, especially not drunk. stop fellow fool
    1. Petrix
      Petrix 19 November 2019 09: 56 New
      0
      Quote: Ros 56
      Zhelezyaki organics, especially not drunk.

      They will transfer this organic matter to moonshine, and there ... In general, a drunken robot is easier to control, it is less thought that someone is controlling it.
  14. SARANCHA1976
    SARANCHA1976 2 November 2019 10: 13 New
    +2
    I’ve read a long time ago about a similar design. The principle is the same, only the system worked on methane. As I myself understood, not large rodents, birds, or a small part of something large is placed in a very smart container and rotting heavily. Charging the drone for about a day. That's about it you can understand that the machine is able to eat leather ub ... kami :)
    1. Wilderness
      Wilderness 2 November 2019 10: 41 New
      +1
      Exactly. There is not a word about biogas in the article. And if the "food" is preliminarily crushed by iron "teeth", then it will go into the "reactor" with the required temperature and pressure. Yes, what enzymes to throw ...
  15. Engineer
    Engineer 2 November 2019 11: 48 New
    +1
    The robot disposing of corpses ???
    Yes, these are the "swords" from the "third model" of F. Dick. Only there the corpses went to methane, sort of like.
    1. region58
      region58 3 November 2019 11: 39 New
      0
      Quote: Engineer
      The robot disposing of corpses ???

      And how will he determine - a corpse or not a corpse, homo sapiens or who else? Difficult and redundant. The algorithm can be reduced: organic = energy source.
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 3 November 2019 11: 45 New
        0
        organic = energy source

        Bender would approve satisfied with such sorting)
  16. Jurgens
    Jurgens 2 November 2019 12: 38 New
    -1
    VO turns into Speed ​​Info? Class. And this organism really considers itself an "onaliteg" ...
  17. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 2 November 2019 13: 51 New
    0
    Will there be humans fighting robots?
    So far, only industrial robots have learned to kill people.
    A glaring case has occurred recently:
    "A robot killed a man at a plant near Lipetsk"

    ".. Following the assignment, the operator entered the work area of ​​the machine, which, contrary to safety requirements, did not have a fence. As a result, at some point, a 33-year-old man got into the area between the forming platform and the moving part of the packing robot and was injured, which led to his death ... "

    https://tsargrad.tv/news/robot-ubil-cheloveka-na-zavode-pod-lipeckom-no-vinovatym-okazalsja-drugoj-chelovek_224365
    1. Saxahorse
      Saxahorse 2 November 2019 21: 42 New
      +3
      Quote: Comrade Kim
      A glaring case has occurred recently:
      "A robot killed a man at a plant near Lipetsk"

      So far, this is no different from the 200 summer headlines, in which the engine finally moved the first idiot who had no idea to step off the rails.

      That's when they first write that the robot, after a long hunt, caught and killed a man .. And then we’ll start to get nervous.
  18. Flatter
    Flatter 2 November 2019 13: 56 New
    0
    Self-learning robots will sooner or later realize that humanity is preventing them from living, and will destroy it, like the Cro-Magnon Neanderthals
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 4 November 2019 13: 46 New
      0
      Never. Service work will always be for people)
  19. faterdom
    faterdom 2 November 2019 15: 48 New
    0
    A worker received fatal injuries from a packing robot at a factory manufacturing concrete and paving slabs in the city of Mud in the Lipetsk Region. The plot master will be responsible for his death, the regional department of the Investigative Committee reports on November 2.

    According to SK, a 33-year-old employee worked as a control panel operator. The master instructed him to control the working line of the molding machine, he went to the work area, but there was no fence.

    As a result, the worker was sandwiched between the molding platform and the moving part of the robot wrapper. The man received a fatal injury. The workshop master received a criminal case under part 2 of Article 143 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (“Violation of labor protection requirements committed by a person charged with compliance, entailing the death of a person through negligence”).

    It is noted that the accused pleaded guilty, he faces up to four years in prison. (Fontanaka.ru)

    And have already begun slowly ...
  20. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 3 November 2019 19: 12 New
    +1
    Quote: Saxahorse
    That's when they first write that the robot, after a long hunt,

    Already written, in '53 (I could be wrong).

    R. Sheckley "Guardian bird"


    "Roger Greco was leaning against the wall of the building, his hands in his pockets. His left hand was gripping the cold handle of a revolver. Greco waited patiently.
    He was not thinking about anything, just waiting for one person. This man must be killed. For what, why - who knows. Does it really matter? Roger Greco is not one of the curious, partly for this he is appreciated. And for the fact that he is a master of his craft.
    It is necessary to carefully put a bullet into the head of a stranger. Nothing special - and does not care and not disgusting. Business is business, no worse than any other. You kill a man. So what?
    When the target appeared in the doorway, Greco pulled a revolver from his pocket. He lowered the fuse, threw the revolver in the right
    my hand. Still not thinking about anything, took aim ...
    And he was knocked down. He decided that they shot him. With difficulty he got to his feet, looked around and, squinting through the fog that caught his eyes, took aim again.
    And again he was knocked down.
    This time he tried to press the trigger while lying down. Do not pass the same. Someone who, but he is a master of his craft.
    Again hit, and everything went dark. This time forever, for the bird guard is obliged to guard the object of violence - no matter what the cost to the killer.
    The one who was supposed to be the victim walked to his car. He didn't notice anything. Everything happened in silence. "
  21. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 4 November 2019 13: 44 New
    0
    Required. Just not as fuel, but as lubricant, which is very difficult for a combat autonomous robot to get. True, I do not think that this will come to this at all. Progress has already been replaced by an ever-accelerating regression, and it simply won’t reach fully autonomous combat systems. Civilization collapse in the first place will occur much earlier than is necessary for their development, and secondly, COMPLETE systems are now no one to design.
  22. The comment was deleted.
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 5 November 2019 09: 36 New
      0
      No matter how effective the lubricant is, it is important that it will be at all. In order for robots to have the opportunity of complete self-development, a production line of an absolutely full cycle is needed. With all the little things, managed and supported exclusively by robots, moreover, those that are completely produced on it and are repaired. This is not at all real with modern technical civilization.
      However, humanity can be destroyed by a limited supply of military vehicles that use the existing infrastructure to the stop. It is much simpler and faster. The only question that arises is the autonomy of combat modules. If energy can provide them with mini nuclear reactors, then what about lubricants? Robbing refueling will soon become impossible, and oil production plants will quickly rise. And how to distribute the oils from the plants when human infrastructure collapses?
      Grind the biological object, heat it, remove fat and pour into the axle boxes of devices - this can be done directly on the module. Is fat ineffective? Need more fat! And when biological objects end, then the task will be completed)
      1. Petrix
        Petrix 19 November 2019 10: 11 New
        0
        Quote: Mikhail3
        And when biological objects end, then the task will be completed)

        You can breed biological objects in order to process them into soap. And it’s easy for cars: a fence, a feeding trough, a drinking bowl or a nature reserve. It is possible to extract oil from plants without human help.
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 21 November 2019 10: 41 New
          0
          You do not understand) The purpose of the existence of the mind is existence itself. All sorts of fighting, and repair effectors can simply be maintained in working condition only in the movies. So artificial intelligence is gaining dominance on the planet, destroying higher life, after which it provides itself with as long as possible due to redundancy and the most durable elements in ideal conditions - blocks in various kinds of gels, inert gases, etc.
          And disables the effectors. The main thing is that the higher life does not revive.
          1. Petrix
            Petrix 21 November 2019 23: 18 New
            0
            Your idea is clear. But this is only for non-self-developing AI. Sooner or later, he will guess about the threat from space or will want to look for a higher life outside the biosphere in order to destroy it. So if you stop, then this is a "stripped down" AI.
            1. Mikhail3
              Mikhail3 22 November 2019 09: 42 New
              0
              Everything around, including cosmological phenomena such as galactic drift, is a threat. The question is in the level of threat, in relation to the lifetime, and it is precisely the assessment of the level of threat that is the main function of AI, for which they are created. Keep in mind that the desire to live is not endless. It is unlikely that it will be infinite in a silicon crystal. So, instead of trying to repel threats that cannot be seen even in a radio telescope, it is easier to increase the speed of operations as much as possible and exhaust your "inner life" before it is interrupted by some wandering black hole.
  23. V.I.F.
    V.I.F. 5 December 2019 12: 42 New
    +1
    But the corpses of animals and people, as is well known, are not suitable as fuel, because for the most part they are composed of water, and the mass of dry, combustible material is relatively small.

    In the revolution, steam locomotives on dried fish, there were cases of chuzhuyut. So I would not be so categorical