Military Review

How are things with machine tools in Russia

51
In Russian media and in the public, such a difficult issue for the country as machine tool construction is often discussed. Compared to how this industry was developed in the USSR, today we can state serious problems. However, there are two details: firstly, with the creation of the necessary number of different machine tools within the country, problems also existed in the Soviet Union, and secondly, it is still impossible to call the machine-tool industry in modern Russia “ordered to live long”.


How are things with machine tools in Russia


Today in Russia there are many enterprises that are engaged in the production of machine tools. Of course, these are not giants, but still. Some industries have long used domestic-made machines, which in reality turn out to be no worse than at least the Chinese counterparts.

By the way, it was China that actually turned the world machine tool industry upside down. Huge plants create machines "for every taste and color." It is extremely difficult to compete with such a competitor. But a quite realistic model of competition is its internal version, when a domestic enterprise can serve one or another sector of the market. One of these niches is high-precision machine tool equipment.

About the Russian machine tool industry, its development and survival in a competitive environment with foreign companies is described in a video created based on the materials of the well-known site “Made with Us”.

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  1. Svarog
    Svarog 1 November 2019 11: 33 New
    +5
    By the way, it was China that actually turned the world machine tool industry upside down. Huge plants create machines "for every taste and color." It is extremely difficult to compete with such a competitor. But a quite realistic model of competition is its internal version, when a domestic enterprise can serve one or another sector of the market. One of these niches is high-precision machine tool equipment.

    It’s difficult for our liberals to compete with the Chinese ... they don’t know anything .. Although they could, all conditions allow, they used to kick at the fact that in China slave force is much cheaper, now the situation is the opposite .. Look for an excuse and nag, that's the fate liberals .. oh, and even under patriotic slogans.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 1 November 2019 11: 41 New
      0
      Quote: Svarog
      To look for an excuse and to cut, that’s the lot of liberals .. oh, and even under patriotic slogans.

      So it turns out, "Enemies burned down their home."
    2. Edik
      Edik 1 November 2019 11: 54 New
      +1
      Quote: Svarog
      Although they could, all conditions allow, they used to kick it

      Yes, they kicked you Svarog, kicked, explained! And here again! laughing You better tell us how you got to such a life, do you have information on how many days in the brain are delayed?
      And you forgot to compare there in the past, but really wanted to wink How much and what was built under Stalin and how much under Putin? If you persecute, then drive with the facts!
    3. Greg Miller
      Greg Miller 1 November 2019 11: 56 New
      14
      Machine-tool building not only in Russia, but throughout the entire post-Soviet space has been completely destroyed. Even Belarus, the only one who did not allow the plundering of its Soviet legacy and that, machine-tool building could not be preserved. What can we say about Russia, through which the "invisible hand of the market" walked like a hurricane ...
      1. Karen
        Karen 1 November 2019 12: 10 New
        +5
        In Armenia, the protege of machine tool building was led by Putin's protege R. Kocharyan ... Our machine tool factory named after Dzerzhinsky, all of whose products Iran was ready to buy in one gulp, he ironed and reformatted into a market for his homies ...
        1. Vladimir61
          Vladimir61 1 November 2019 12: 49 New
          -6
          Quote: Karen
          Putin’s protege defeated machine tool industry in Armenia
          In the post-Soviet space, in the stall "Putin's fault" is a new acquisition! Well, let's wait for the West to help you ...
          1. Karen
            Karen 1 November 2019 12: 57 New
            0
            I didn’t quite bring him to the place, it’s so ... But here is the fact that Putin has complicity in our affairs of 2008 - it is ...
            1. Russian jacket
              Russian jacket 2 November 2019 18: 00 New
              0
              Karen. I do not know who destroyed it and when, who was whose protege, but here is my life experience. Back in 1986 he graduated from a technical school in a Siberian town near Irkutsk. Specialty Electrical equipment of industrial enterprises and installations. Plants mostly sent in distribution requests. And there was one exception. A representative came, if my memory serves me correctly, the Yerevan plant of electrical engineering, I may be wrong .... But the family was Arakelyan. He promised mountains of gold .... When asked why he came so far, there was a stunning answer "Our youth does not go to factories, but to markets, to trade in fruits" .... So even in Soviet times, staff from all over the Union to your factories collected ... No offense to you said .... But the saying "to work in Russian" was not invented in Russia. hi
              PS I’ve been proud of our president for a long time, not a single mess in the world can do without him, even at the level of a shepherd’s hut in the mountains .... wassat
              1. Karen
                Karen 2 November 2019 18: 14 New
                0
                Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                So at your plants even in Soviet times, personnel from all over the Union were collected ... No offense to you ....

                I am very glad that our plant directors attracted specialists from all over the Union, and not only from local ones ... I knew about two Russian chief engineers of the largest plants ... One of them put obstacles for me so that the products of my cooperative (KDA) would not interfere Kazan products, but this is so, by the way ...
                On our machines - I know the details, and that does not sound ...
                1. comradChe
                  comradChe 29 November 2019 19: 39 New
                  +1
                  Sorry Karen, but I’ll tell you, if it’s not Russian that is not Russian, NEVER all Caucasian peoples independently in the conditions of the USSR have ANYTHING good in mechanical engineering and could NOT create and do it themselves. Some representatives who found themselves in the Russian team could rise in the level of skill. But this is rare. The mentality (false pride) does not allow us to recognize this. This is a big problem and most likely cannot be solved. The Russians have other PROBLEMS, and if they are (we would like with our help) do not decide, it will be bad EVERYTHING.
              2. NewDoctor
                NewDoctor 4 November 2019 10: 04 New
                0
                Actually it is. It is enough to recall the Armenian and Georgian machine tools that stood in the corner at the factories and were removed at best by blanks.
    4. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 1 November 2019 12: 30 New
      +4
      it’s not justification but economic realities. Suppose you are now intensely starting to build such plants. How are you going to recoup them? in order for their products to start buying, it must become competitive. which, in principle, cannot be. which means that the state will have to subsidize their purchase and not only build these plants. After 20 years of such investments, it may happen that the products become competitive, but here again they come out. technologies that do not appear from the air. this is still an investment and big. and no need for labor in China. it was she who gave them the opportunity to make a wild jump. this is their resource which we do not have. you are a liberal or a communist against elementary things, neither of those nor the others.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 1 November 2019 13: 10 New
        +3
        carstorm 11 (Dmitry) I will not tire of repeating that with the trillions of "raccoons" stolen over 20 years, the whole country could be rebuilt 2 times.
        And I remind you that, first of all, you need to invest in education and science, then there will be technologies and plants. Only current leaders do not need this.
        And one more point, the salary in China is higher than ours and the talk of cheap Chinese labor is the same propaganda trick as the growth of the economy’s decline by half a percent wink
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 1 November 2019 13: 25 New
          -2
          you hear again not what they say) you can build anything. and there is money for it. Are you going to do them competitive? do their prices lower than chinese for example? and no higher salary in China. only in big cities if. taking into account their work schedule, it is still necessary to calculate from whom it is higher in general. everyone hears an average salary of 5000 yuan, for example, but the fact that they work 12 hours a day seven days a week omits everything.
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 1 November 2019 19: 49 New
            +1
            With competitive advantages, you can still come up with something. But we have some kind of chronic impotence in the field of creating an after-sales service throughout the country.
            Well, for a good machine you need good accessories. German and Swiss motor spindles, for example. And then sanctions, we have to reinvent everything. And then it turns out this is not, there are no such technologies. And there is no around, and those who have either a collapse, then a breakthrough, then a change of leadership. In short, our native Russia. And when we get it, we need to check, break in, change. From the first time we can’t. From the second usually too)). And you need to get profit here and now.
          2. ruivit1988
            ruivit1988 3 November 2019 06: 30 New
            -2
            In order for the machines to be bought in our market, it is possible to import the trade, and oblige our businessmen to update their machine park, and it would be better if they also automate it. Thus, everyone would be in demand, both turner and engineers. You will say unprofitable expensively, but I will tell you. Here is the approximate price of an industrial robot manipulator 1000000 rudders. CNC machines also stand, simple machines are cheaper from a hundred to a million rubles! you say that I said it is expensive, but the fact is that the mistresses and other kids of businessmen smear their backs with black and red caviar, which is equivalent to a robot. Or the son of a respected merchant will break the car at a cost equivalent to the cost of machine tools of simple machines of the whole workshop. Well, or the cost of seventeen robots of manipulators, or seventeen CNC machines. That's the root, business or the domestic market there is no demand for industrial robots or the same CNC machines. Yes, and for simple machines the same low demand, because Kamut need caviar black to bring beauty to the ass.
      2. kin
        kin 1 November 2019 16: 30 New
        +4
        Why is it immediately competitive ?, they should be in demand domestically, give preferences to manufacturers, introduce import duties, buy only what they themselves do not produce. There will be real production in the country, there will be demand.
        1. passerby
          passerby 4 November 2019 06: 47 New
          0
          Something citizens did not run to buy domestic cars made on domestic machines, as well as domestic smartphones made on domestic machines. Judging by what you wrote, you suggest returning to the days of the USSR with long lines for refrigerators and washing machines, as well as other consumer goods. Stimulating the development of production is not carried out in the right way, and what you offer, in essence, means the return of all the most negative things that happened in the Soviet system, when in the absence of normal competition industry produced unnecessary trash to anyone, because it knew that the buyer had no place to buy and they will also say thanks, since consumer goods were practically in short supply.
          Quote: kin
          Why is it immediately competitive ?, they should be in demand domestically, give preferences to manufacturers, introduce import duties, buy only what they themselves do not produce. There will be real production in the country, there will be demand.
          1. zenion
            zenion 29 December 2019 16: 32 New
            0
            In your opinion - do it yourself - is harmful? Do you eat it yourself, or through a meat grinder made in the USSR, can an electric foreign one give in the teeth?
    5. Observer2014
      Observer2014 1 November 2019 21: 25 New
      0
      Quote: Svarog
      By the way, it was China that actually turned the world machine tool industry upside down. Huge plants create machines "for every taste and color." It is extremely difficult to compete with such a competitor. But a quite realistic model of competition is its internal version, when a domestic enterprise can serve one or another sector of the market. One of these niches is high-precision machine tool equipment.

      It’s difficult for our liberals to compete with the Chinese ... they don’t know anything .. Although they could, all conditions allow, they used to kick at the fact that in China slave force is much cheaper, now the situation is the opposite .. Look for an excuse and nag, that's the fate liberals .. oh and even under patriotic slogans.

      good yes And what else to add? NOTHING! hi
    6. nikvic46
      nikvic46 8 November 2019 06: 24 New
      0
      And China and other Asian countries are very careful about other people's experience. Using at the same time their best practices.
  2. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 1 November 2019 11: 39 New
    +6
    By the way, it was China that actually turned the world machine tool industry upside down. Huge plants create machines "for every taste and color."
    Until the 1961 of the year, the USSR supplied China with the most first-class machines, and now China supplies us with low-quality machines, and we are satisfied, as the Chinese were once satisfied.
  3. knn54
    knn54 1 November 2019 11: 45 New
    +1
    Cartoons, videos ... and that's it.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 1 November 2019 11: 55 New
      -6
      the volume of the domestic market matters - at the outskirts the outskirts fell off
      there are many difficulties, more than achievements.
      BUT THE PATIENT IS ALREADY LIVING
      1. zenion
        zenion 29 December 2019 16: 36 New
        0
        No one reads or knows that machine tools made in the USSR are still used in the provinces. They go to metal stockpiles and buy out machines that can still work for a dozen years. An American with a small factory wrote that it was good when turner experts and milling workers arrived in the United States. We worked until retirement, and now there is a factory, but there is no people who would like to work and show that they are universal. A lot of work. You can’t make several products on CNC machines, here you need to work in the old way.
    2. Lexus
      Lexus 1 November 2019 18: 31 New
      +3
      Now the main "industrialist" Vadim 237 will pull himself up - he will throw propaganda and advertising posters for 5 more articles in the comments. And he will prove with foam at the mouth that "vysyvreti" laughing
  4. afrikanez
    afrikanez 1 November 2019 11: 51 New
    +7
    We had a pompous opening of a machine-tool plant in our city, but not even a year has passed since the entire management was "packed" for bribes and registration. That's all production!
    1. Prisoner
      Prisoner 1 November 2019 11: 58 New
      +6
      It is already good that they have "packed". Positive, however. Fifteen years ago, the company would have been taken over, sold in parts to the Bahamas. hi
  5. Old Orc
    Old Orc 1 November 2019 12: 09 New
    10
    It is interesting how in the case of mobilization they will be able to increase production capacity if they can produce single unique objects.
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 1 November 2019 12: 14 New
      +5
      Quote: Old Orc
      Old Orc (Andrey)

      Quote: Old Orc
      It is interesting how in the case of mobilization they will be able to increase production capacity if they can produce single unique objects.

      They will not increase in any way. Heavy machinery and machine tools in the Russian Federation are destroyed, as a class.
      We are no longer Orcs.
  6. Mihail55
    Mihail55 1 November 2019 12: 19 New
    +5
    Yes ... that’s good in the movies. And the realities? Almost all good machines we buy are imported. And the equipment we produce is no longer quoted ... China, Taiwan are ahead ... sorry.
  7. Yrec
    Yrec 1 November 2019 12: 25 New
    10
    About machine-tool industry I will say this: to enter a machine-tool university, you need to score a little more than 50 points on the exam, the salary of a young specialist is at the subsistence level. And the very "machine tool" now - is the production of flexible production lines, and not a separate machine tool with a mechanic in the kit. Single unique machine tools were built in the USSR and boasted of them at every corner, and production lines were purchased in Germany. And now everything is much worse.
    1. Nasrat
      Nasrat 1 November 2019 13: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: Yrec
      ... to enter the machine-tool university you need a little more than 50 points for the exam ...


      Yuri, please indicate this university. really interested, there is not a joke. Please indicate this university.
      1. Yrec
        Yrec 1 November 2019 14: 11 New
        +4
        Quote: Nasr
        Quote: Yrec
        ... to enter the machine-tool university you need a little more than 50 points for the exam ...


        Yuri, please indicate this university. really interested, there is not a joke. Please indicate this university.

        Stankin, it was a little over 50 points, and now it is the basic university of the industry.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 1 November 2019 19: 38 New
          +1
          EC, native GLASS. Even before the exam, he could not boast of high competition. It was either a fallback or from vocational schools went there. When was the last time (this year) I did not find the actual design direction in its previous form. The MeUP faculty is no more.
          With salaries for young engineers in the Russian Federation, it has always been difficult if not IT or the oil industry. Now for beginning designers in Moscow, 35-50 thousand if I am not mistaken. Few would disagree.
    2. UserGun
      UserGun 1 November 2019 19: 46 New
      +3
      Quote: Yrec
      salary of a young specialist at a living wage


      Not only young, the vast majority as well. This, incidentally, is youth and scares. There are practically no fools to work for letters and badges of Kamunyak labor, so even the old ones have a simple conversation: “We are paid and we work.” This is only in the 237s and other affective hangers-on (probably living in Muscovy) hard workers can work for a bowl of soup in the name of someone's dough)))
  8. v_bueff
    v_bueff 1 November 2019 13: 27 New
    0
    Alksnis a week ago reduced the quality of the issue to the number of bearings produced. It is intelligible and clear.
  9. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 1 November 2019 13: 48 New
    +7
    In addition to the lack of machine tool industry, the question arises more and more sharply about who should work on machines? On old, on manufactured or acquired ... The staff of skilled machinists becomes obsolete even faster. Young people are not in a hurry to get up to the lathe or milling.
  10. Gennady Adonin
    Gennady Adonin 1 November 2019 14: 10 New
    +6
    We can’t build machine tools now, because correctly seen, no one to work. For 20 years, the government has been doing nothing to restore qualified production workers. After training go out
    managers unsuitable for production. Only after 5-10 years, how will the government wake up, change
    programs and training methods (we have already written about this several times) only then can the restoration of industry begin. In the meantime, we must engage in innovative production entrepreneurship. We (entrepreneurs 15-20 years, 30 years technical production managers)
    developed a methodology for the restoration of industry, farming, and entrepreneurship. Let's try
    Now transfer it to you. Dear colleagues, familiarize yourself with the methodology and express your opinion.
  11. Gennady Adonin
    Gennady Adonin 1 November 2019 14: 12 New
    +1
    The METHOD of restoring industry, farming, entrepreneurship, increasing the number of entrepreneurs to 20% and there is money for this, and 21 million beggars are ready to become entrepreneurs

    The main provisions of the methodology: 1. Amend Law 129 FZ of August 8, 2001 and other laws and regulations. Pointing out in new laws that entrepreneurs, together with the regional administrations, select topics for work and, together with the regional administration, sell entrepreneurs' products to the regional administrations: 2. Together with enterprises, develop plans to increase labor productivity and modernize production. Transfer the plans to entrepreneurs and on the terms of joint financing with the Ministry of Economic Development (co-financing of these works is provided for in the plans of the Ministry of Economic Development) to carry out these works. Invite scientific personnel on the subject of work on contractual terms. 3. Together with the trade departments, compile a list of top-selling products and hand them over to entrepreneurs. 4. Assign experienced and competent mentors to entrepreneurs. Mentors will help entrepreneurs at the first stage not to get confused, not to waste money, not to get enslaved by bribes of bandits from the Government. For example, I advise my entrepreneurs for free. To assign 10-20 entrepreneurs to each consultant is normal for consultation. Finding former defense workers in the regions is not difficult. Therefore, a team of consultants in each region is easy to select. 5. From the regional funds to provide entrepreneurs with the necessary production facilities. The Ministry of Economic Development has repeatedly mentioned this in its advertising booklets and there was no negative reaction from the regions
    1. Azis
      Azis 1 November 2019 22: 55 New
      0
      Quote: Gennady Adonin
      Entrepreneurs in conjunction with the administrations of the regions
      Strongly disagree with you. This bundle will not lead to anything positive, because most often the administrations have OWN entrepreneurs, and those who really want to produce something they need, are in demand, to PRODUCE, rather than resell, a little sawing - there are only a few of them, and they are outside the administration. Ready to discuss.
  12. Gennady Adonin
    Gennady Adonin 1 November 2019 14: 13 New
    +1
    6. Do not charge for connecting to public services for 5-10 years. When a person comes to the tax office and becomes an entrepreneur, he considers the costs of raw materials, production, and premises. But when he finds out how much it costs to connect to public services, he abandons this business and does not always manage to give out debts. For 20 years we have only 2% of entrepreneurs, and these 2% give 21,9 GDP, if using our methodology you can increase the number of entrepreneurs to 20%, then the income in GDP will increase to 50%. Now we have 92% of the regions subsidized, if by increasing the number of entrepreneurs to increase revenues in GDP to 50%, then the regions will not need tens of billions of rubles of subsidies. Perhaps the Ministry of Economic Development should consider that it is more profitable to pay subsidies to the regions or to keep the number of entrepreneurs at 20% and allow them to connect to public utilities with a deferred payment of 5-10 years. 7. To assist entrepreneurs in the sale of products both in Russia and abroad. This is in the plans of the Ministry of Economic Development, they have a whole arsenal of organizations and a chamber of commerce and agreements with large retail chains. It is necessary to help entrepreneurs. 8. Apparently, the President got acquainted with our methodology and offered feedback with the security and checking structures, but there is still a lot of work to be done to get the result. Yes, and advisers to the President, former Ministers of Economic Development and Trade, will try to justify their inaction for 20 years and the lack of results. Our task is for this information to reach the President, then we will all together make our Russia a rich country and force the entire power vertical to work for Russia, not for ourselves. 9. Conduct an advertising campaign to familiarize yourself with the methodology so that all people believe that the authorities will not deceive, will not take, will not make them homeless.
  13. Gennady Adonin
    Gennady Adonin 1 November 2019 14: 14 New
    +5
    When the powers that be learned about the methodology, all in one voice, we don’t need it from us, and so everything is fine. We wrote 9 open letters to the President, there is no answer yet. But the Ministry of Economic Development has banned entrepreneurship in garages and garden plots. Whatever it was like in China, in every yard, every barn
    mini factory. In China, 40% of entrepreneurs. We wanted to speak at the forum
    “My Business” on October 15, 2019 in Rostov-on-Don, to talk about our methodology, but the Ministry of Economic Development does not allow it. Afraid that we will tell you why entrepreneurship is not developing in Russia and the Don, where it is spent
    budget money, but no result. Dear colleagues, if we can
    disseminate the methodology on the Internet so that it is the will of the People, and the President and the Government must fulfill the will of the People.
    Recently, there were negative likes on the methodology, of course,
    the work of the Ministry of Economic Development and its activists. They don’t know how to do anything, but to like
    have learned. Gather us explain your position, say that you are against
    growth of material well-being of Russians. Justify everyone's denial
    paragraph and then we may agree with you. In the meantime, the economic bloc of the Government has spoiled 20 years of Russia and the Russians, making them poor and
    hungry, and continues from under the silence to spoil our technique. To answer
    where did the budget money go for 20 years of campaigning and propaganda
    agencies, farms, industrial recovery cannot and are afraid
    answer, and therefore will continue to interfere with the advancement of our methodology.
    But this will not stop us, we will continue to extend the methodology to
    victory. Victory will be ours.
  14. Bear040
    Bear040 1 November 2019 14: 43 New
    +7
    There are big problems with industry in the Russian Federation, and so far, fascist salaries of between 11350 and 15000 rubles will be offered at VASO-type factories for which you can only survive, but you cannot live, nothing will change for the better in the Russian Federation ...
    1. UserGun
      UserGun 1 November 2019 19: 57 New
      +5
      I’m afflicted entrepreneurs and guides, with 30 years of experience, as I understand it, such a trifle as the salary of hard workers, as described in their plan by the bulk above several posts, is simply not mentioned))) They apparently are not up to it))) Funny huh ?! But here they require money and preferences for their loved ones)))
  15. Armata T-14
    Armata T-14 1 November 2019 22: 00 New
    -2
    Well, not everything is so bad, gentlemen
  16. steelmaker
    steelmaker 1 November 2019 22: 11 New
    +1
    Why do we need to build if you can buy cheaply from others? In the 90s EBN started from this. If nails are cheaper in China, this does not mean that we should not do them! We just have a lazy government.
  17. nikvic46
    nikvic46 2 November 2019 09: 48 New
    +1
    Replacement of equipment at hydroelectric power plants will force us to work in this direction. It is not indicated here which electronic equipment is connected with "hardware".
  18. Alexander Khazhakyan
    Alexander Khazhakyan 4 November 2019 13: 43 New
    0
    I made a memo on how to make a breakthrough in machine tools. In the usual way, we will not catch up with Western technologies, we need to step over the existing level of machine tools! Many have heard about 3D modeling and additive technologies. This production requires cheap nanopowders and in large commercial quantities. We have such an installation with a capacity of 2 tons / hour, granularity up to 2 nm, and achieved powder packing density of 99-100%, NITU MISIS confirmed the possibility of using our powders. We need a government decision!
  19. Alexander Khazhakyan
    Alexander Khazhakyan 30 November 2019 14: 09 New
    0
    Does Russia have an opportunity for a technological breakthrough in the machine tool industry?

    You can answer positively! At the modern level of development of science, any industry is primarily technology. It is impossible to simply disassemble any part, equipment, copying its dimensions, for repetition purposes. The main thing is the technology and materials used. Example. Unsuccessful attempts to copy in the USA the Russian-made RD 180 engines it sells.

    For this reason, even in China, serious firms buy patents in the United States to produce original products.

    We cannot repeat this path under the conditions of the sanctions of the USA and other countries adopted against Russia.

    And here in Russia opens a window of opportunity!
  20. Levius RU
    Levius RU 1 December 2019 10: 56 New
    0
    1. This video is just an advertising video of one company. Although I agree that in the production of large machine tools we can. Compete. 2. We can compete in the production of small machine tools. But you need investments to output to the series. China makes even in small workshops a series of 20-50. When we make 2 machines a month they are expensive.