Extra displacement of the fighter P-38 "Lightning"

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Lockheed P-38 Lightning is an unusual fighter. And the story of Lightning will begin with an unusual question.





Why does Lightning need such a hefty cabin?


The aircraft was built according to a two-beam scheme with a cockpit located in the fuselage gondola in the middle. And there’s one mystery connected with this gondola. The gondola is large - its length was over 6 meters, and the largest lateral dimension (height) in the place where the pilot's seat was, reached 2 meters!

This is very funny, because the central section of the Lightning is longer than the entire Soviet I-16 fighter, from the propeller to the trailing edge of the rudder! And just a couple of meters shorter than the MiG-3.



The 6-meter section of the MiG fuselage was enough to place an engine weighing almost a ton (the length of the AM-35 cylinder block is more than 2 meters!), With all the necessary fuel fittings and cooling radiators, weapons, then the cockpit, with the seat, instruments and controls, followed by a lowered garrot, smoothly turning into a vertical keel. Kiel added the remaining couple of meters to the length of the MiG (the full length of the fighter is 8,25 m).

For some reason, the Lightning's fuselage gondola (also over 6 meters) was enough only to the pilot's cabin and weapon: 20-mm gun and four machine guns. No wonder for that era. One of the modifications MiG-3 also demonstrated the possibility of installing two synchronized 20-mm guns above the engine, in front of the cockpit (there was enough space, the question was about the engine with the required power).

The middle section of the Lightning was not only long, but also unexpectedly high! A fuselage of such dimensions would be enough to accommodate an engine with an oil cooler sticking out from under it.

Extra displacement of the fighter P-38 "Lightning"


But the Lightning engines were placed in front of the fuselage beams, to the left and right of the central gondola.

Lightning's fuel tanks were in the wing.

Nothing more substantial in the central section of the P-38, in theory, should not be. Because of its lightness, the gondola even received a supporting skin (i.e., without power set): smooth duralumin sheets provided the necessary strength.

What was the useful place in the gondola spent on?


Answer: its entire lower part was occupied by the nose landing gear compartment! And at this place story "Lightning" turns into the most complete absurdity. However, this is never a joke. Everyone can verify the validity of the conclusions by comparing the figures and drawings.

For the first time, twenty years ago, the Russian historian-researcher Oleg Teslenko drew attention to the paradoxical construction of Lightning. He then expanded his view of the problem somewhat and obtained unexpected results. It can be said that he did all the work for Clarence "Kelly" Johnson, a famous aircraft designer, in addition to Lightning, who had a hand in creating the U-2 and the controversial F-104 fighter, nicknamed the Widower.

You can have a different attitude to the opinion of enthusiasts and all kinds of lovers. But, as follows from the epic with F-104, even professionals in their field, such as Kelly Johnson, are capable of making serious mistakes.

Therefore, the presented point of view has the right to be voiced. It provides a lot of food for the mind and develops creative thinking.



The entire bottom of the fuselage nacelle P-38 was occupied by the nose landing gear compartment. But that's not all. Even taking into account the maximum tire diameter (500 mm) between the retracted landing gear and the cockpit flooring, an 30-centimeter “clearance” was obtained. Extra free space.

Further in the design there is an even more paradoxical element.

Ideally, the nacelle was long enough to fit the landing gear wheel behind the back of the pilot's seat. In reality, it was exactly under the cockpit. As if Clarence Johnson did everything to increase the height of the gondola!

And he really did.



Clarence Johnson was aware that with a three-point chassis design with a bow strut, the length of the main struts was not enough to provide a safe distance from the propellers to the ground. Especially in the case of "Lightning", in which the location of the engines was purely geometrical disadvantageous compared to classic fighters, in which the propeller was located in the bow, which was highly "raised" above the ground.

Only the long nose stance, which in this case turned out to be too long and fragile, could "lift" the plane. The threat of frequent breakdowns of the landing gear was created.

Many designers found themselves in a similar situation - when for various reasons the aircraft required a large "clearance" without the possibility of lengthening the landing gear. Therefore, the designers changed the aircraft itself, in one way or another, "underestimating" it in the places of mounting the racks.

The most famous example is the German Stuck dive with a W-shaped kink. Also did the creators of "Corsair"; the durability of a landing gear for a deck aircraft was a sacred parameter.

In this case, the creators of Lightning artificially increased the dimensions of the gondolaso that its bottom edge is as close to the ground as possible.

The payment for this decision was the increased drag. But the designers had no choice ...

Any problem can be solved. And solved not only in one way


Clarence Johnson managed to build an unusual aircraft with a nose landing gear, avoiding the dangers associated with the fragility of the landing gear.

But the question arises: were there any alternatives to a very difficult decision?

Of course they were.

Aviation He knows an example of an aircraft of a similar pattern - the German intelligence officer FW-189 (nicknamed "Rama"). The Germans managed a classic for that time chassis design with two main struts and a tail wheel. Which was removed by turning to the left, into a special niche located in the thickness of the stabilizer.



As for the bulky central gondola 6 meters long and 2 meters high, then excuse me ... There were jobs for three crew members, two movable firing installations and reconnaissance equipment. A high-resolution stationary camera mounted on a massive frame - such a "pinhole", created in the first half of the twentieth century, had outstanding mass and dimensions.

In general, the designers of the Fokke-Wool company simply did not bother with the nose strut of the chassis due to the not-so-special need of such a scheme for a piston-era aircraft.

The creators of the P-82 Twin Mustang, whose design was very similar to the Lightning (except for the lack of a central gondola), found an even more beautiful solution. For such a "square" aircraft with two fuselages, the most suitable ... four-point chassis.



Such a scheme significantly increases steering stability and virtually eliminates the problems associated with touching the ground with the tail during landing.

Together, all the solutions presented would save for Lightning several hundred kilograms of mass and significantly reduce drag. The need for a front strut, its hydraulic drive and a separate turning mechanism would disappear, the size of the nacelle would be reduced, the chassis compartment would disappear - along with the drive of its wings. On the other hand, the fighter’s performance, stability and patency would increase, especially when taxiing and taking off from unpaved airfields.

All this could be considered a naked theory, but the FW-189 and P-82 are real machines that have successfully proved themselves in practice and in military operations.

But Clarence "Kelly" Johnson decided in his own way.

For what purpose did he obsessively try to “shove” a bulky nose stance onto the fighter, “stretching” the central gondola in all directions? This moment will forever remain an unsolved mystery of aviation.

Lightning first had a tail chassis


Fighter "Lightning", most likely, was originally designed for the scheme of the chassis with a tail wheel. The proof is the "rudiment" in the form of a tilt of the main landing gear. O. Teslenko draws attention to the fact that the struts in the released position have a pronounced forward inclination, which is senseless and even harmful for a three-post aircraft with a nose wheel.



By all the rules of physics and geometry, the landing gear should be as far away as possible from the center of gravity of the aircraft. By the way, it is no coincidence that the Lightning has such a long gondola - it was necessary to place the nose strut as far forward as possible, away from the line of the main landing gear.

The forward landing gear of the main landing gear was an essential feature of all piston aircraft with a tail landing gear, which made it possible to increase their stability during take-off. Aircraft that had a nose stance, on the contrary, tilted the main stances back. An obvious example is the Bell P-39 Aerocobra:




The scheme of the MiG-3 with a tail wheel and the inclination of the main struts forward


Lightning is an amazing airplane in every way.


I'm afraid that from this point I will no longer tell anything that could be new or unknown to the reader.

The P-38 Lightning was not a bad fighter, but it cannot be called the most successful. The evolution in aviation was amazingly fast, and the fighter created in 1939 was soon outdated.

The effectiveness of Lightning depended heavily on theater conditions.

The Germans considered the "Doppelschwanz" the weakest and most "light-weighted" Allied fighter. The main reason was the engines, which had poor performance at altitudes above 6000 m, despite the presence of turbocharging. By the way, all fighters with Allison engines (P-38 Lightning, P-39 Aerocobra, P-40 Tomahok) showed themselves only at low and medium altitudes.

Another problem was the cockpit, unable to provide heating during flights at high altitudes, where the temperature overboard could drop to minus 50 °.

Finally, insufficient roll speed. The most important parameter for a fighter, which in practice determines, for example, the ability to leave the enemy’s sight at the last moment.

Lightning’s career on the European theater was short (1943-44), in the last year of the war it was completely replaced by more advanced fighters. Nevertheless, fighters of this type managed to complete 130 000 sorties over Europe with a loss level of 1,3% (over 1700 aircraft).

In the Pacific, Lightning appeared earlier and was able to reach its full potential. It seemed that this heavy fighter was specially created for long flights over the ocean. Two engines gave twice as many chances to return home. Weapons without synchronizers allowed to increase the rate of fire. The location of the trunks near the longitudinal axis of the aircraft provided excellent accuracy of fire. One of the first fighters with turbocharged engines (the presence of this system played a role in the choice of layout). Thanks to the exhaust combined with a turbocharging system, the Lightning was at first considered one of the “quietest” fighters. Armed to the teeth and equipped. Not a plane - a dream.

Despite the relatively small number of Lightnings (the smallest series, among other well-known fighters - Thunders, Mustangs, Hellkets, Corsairs, Tomahokov ...), the brainchild of Kelly Johnson earned his fame. At the "Lightnings" flew the top three overseas aces. “Lightnings” were used in the most striking operations, for example, the elimination of Admiral Yamamoto. At the Lightning, St. Exupery flew off on his last flight.

It was an interesting car. The only question is: could it be better?



When writing the material, the article by O. Teslenko “Lightning” was designed irrationally ”.
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  1. +15
    2 November 2019 06: 05
    Great plane. It was on the P-38 that Yamamoto was "thanked" for Pearl Harbor. And, alas, the reconnaissance "Lightning" of the "little prince", Antoine de Saint-Exupery, was powerless against the "pumped-over" classic FW-190D12.
    1. +16
      2 November 2019 09: 03
      The plane had nothing to do with it, Exupery simply did not see who shot it down, the German pilot himself told about it, who shot it down and was very sorry about it. There was a documentary on this subject.

      PS By the way, just like Ivan Kozhedub shot down a jet Me-262. He saw his baw, went up behind and gasped from his guns.
      1. 0
        3 November 2019 12: 46
        His health was so-so and a creative crisis, well, he drank, of course, it just happened.
    2. +5
      2 November 2019 09: 16
      Something I missed.
      Regarding the shooting down of Exupery FW.
      Now I went through the Internet.
      Far from certain.
      Recognition of the 88-year-old German pilot in 63 years.
      No other evidence.
      As they did not reveal traces of shelling on the detected plane Exupery.
      1. kig
        +4
        2 November 2019 10: 18
        No traces found on discovered debris, but in general they are scattered over a large area, moreover, over so many years their number has decreased significantly.
      2. +3
        2 November 2019 17: 16
        For what purpose did he obsessively try to “shove” a bulky nose stance onto the fighter, “stretching” the central gondola in all directions? This moment will forever remain an unsolved mystery of aviation. (From the text)
        Oleg, no "unsolved aviation secrets" exist at all! Maybe due to the fact that the constructor designed the world's first aircraft with nose landing gear? And for the first one, a certain technological reserve is needed. Do you need to talk about the advantages of the front pillar? - convenience during take-off, landing, taxiing ..
        This is the first, the second: you mentioned that there is only one cannon and four machine guns in the gondola. Is this not enough for you? Do not forget that the caliber of these machine guns is 12,7 mm and, most importantly, for ease of operation and maintenance (installation of ammunition and ejection of cartridges) these units are located in more than one section of the nacelle. Here is the whole "unsolved secret" for you. hi
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. +4
          2 November 2019 20: 09
          Quote: Proxima
          designed the world's first aircraft with nose landing gear?

          Not the first.
          1. -1
            2 November 2019 23: 06
            Quote: Avis-bis
            Quote: Proxima
            designed the world's first aircraft with nose landing gear?

            Not the first.

            Be so kind as to name the first one. However, the question is rhetorical, your answer (in my opinion, of course) will turn out to be incorrect.
            1. +3
              3 November 2019 06: 39
              Quote: Proxima
              Quote: Avis-bis
              Quote: Proxima
              designed the world's first aircraft with nose landing gear?

              Not the first.

              Be so kind as to name the first one. However, the question is rhetorical, your answer (in my opinion, of course) will turn out to be incorrect.

              Your opinion is wrong. FW.19 "Ente":


              1927 year.

              If you need a mandatory retractable SEW, then YFM-1A is at your service - it was built in 1938, a year earlier than the first flight of the P-38go.
    3. +5
      3 November 2019 06: 56
      Quote: lexus
      Great plane.

      Still just good. Although, in any case, he is the best of twin-engine, heavy fighters. We were sorely lacking aircraft of this class throughout the war. Although there were plenty of projects

      Tairovsky Ta-3

      Yakovlevsky I-29
      Polikarpovsky TIS

      Mikoyan and Gurevich MiG-5
      but the only serial was the Pe-3,

      passed the "glorious battle path" from fighter to bomber and back, which unfortunately did not benefit him ...
  2. +1
    2 November 2019 07: 21
    It would be interesting to lead to illustrations with the "Airacobra" type bow strut and possible changes in the layout and geometric dimensions. Maybe someone will try someone in harmony with design programs. feel
    1. +5
      2 November 2019 14: 17
      possible changes in layout and geometric dimensions.


      Where did the author find an empty spot in the central gondola? It is compressed to a minimum, even already engines. Submachine guns, ammunition, rack. Only the gnome pilot remains, then you can pinch your nose. Here is the layout, see for yourself.

      1. +2
        2 November 2019 15: 34
        Quote: dauria
        Where the author is an empty place

        incomprehensible tunnels of design thought)))

  3. +2
    2 November 2019 07: 35
    Good article. Never when I was not interested in "Lightning", now it is necessary to take a closer look at it.
    1. 0
      2 November 2019 07: 47
      Perhaps the reason for using the nose strut was the placement of turbochargers with air intakes in the tail (maybe the beams are weakened, maybe the equipment is tender, it is afraid of dust and shock ...)
    2. +6
      2 November 2019 18: 00
      Quote: mark1
      .... look at him more closely.

      hi .... I repeat feel

      The creators of the P-82 Twin Mustang found an even more beautiful solution.
      1. 0
        2 November 2019 18: 05
        Yes, I understood for a long time, if I said it more carefully, then I had to look more carefully from the beginning and then make assumptions. If you wrote something. then there is one white field, but I accept criticism anyway.
        1. 0
          2 November 2019 18: 34
          Everything has opened. Thank!
      2. 0
        2 November 2019 20: 54
        The movie about R-38 is too long. A film in 54 minutes is not something they will watch on the site in passing.
  4. +2
    2 November 2019 08: 07
    Extra water ... what ?! what
  5. +8
    2 November 2019 08: 21
    For a long time Kaptsov was not visible. Looks like the "vacation" was beneficial, and the article is interesting.
    1. -1
      2 November 2019 20: 12
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      Kaptsov has not been seen for a long time.


      Waiting for the height of autumn.
  6. 0
    2 November 2019 08: 36
    It was an interesting car. The only question is: could it be better?
    Of course she could. As the author of the article wrote, it was necessary to free the gondola from the front landing gear. And this place should be filled with anything. At least put a radar there. And there would be a chic night fighter. And you can fantasize at least until tomorrow. YesThe only thing that really was not enough maneuverability due to the design of its glider. But the flight range was super. As a child, I had his model.
    1. +5
      2 November 2019 08: 46
      And I am proud to have seen him in flight! When I was behind the "hillock", I accidentally witnessed the flight of a "light", a "corsair" and a couple of propeller-driven aircraft, participants in an air show held in a nearby town.
      1. +4
        2 November 2019 09: 45
        I envy you "white" envy. fellow
    2. +3
      2 November 2019 16: 59
      Quote: Observer2014
      It was an interesting car. The only question is: could it be better?
      Of course she could. As the author of the article wrote, it was necessary to free the gondola from the front landing gear. And this place should be filled at least with something. Although, for example, a radar should be put there. And there would be a chic night fighter.

      Don't think Johnson is an idiot. When Molniya was created, there were no onboard radars yet. And when it was needed, the radar was stuck in the P-38.




      P-38M, sign in receipt.
      1. -2
        2 November 2019 17: 06
        Avis-bis (Sergei)
        Don't think Johnson is an idiot. When the "Lightning" was created, there were no airborne radars yet. And when it was needed, the radar was stuck in the P-38. P-38M, sign for receipt.
        And no one considers him an idiot. We are discussing the article. And the fact that you posted it did not surprise me even once. You read the article first. And then you will show something. And your photos, solid confirmation of the correctness of my first comment on this article.
        1. 0
          2 November 2019 17: 09
          Quote: Observer2014
          And the fact that you posted me did not surprise even once.

          Then what is your posting for?
          You read the article first.

          I did not respond to the article.

          And then awake something.

          What did I "show" to you then?
  7. +2
    2 November 2019 08: 59
    It would be interesting to simulate a modern analogue of SuperTukano based on a similar frame. As a cheaper counterpart to attack helicopters.
    1. +1
      2 November 2019 09: 29
      something like something else else they use
      North American OV-10 Bronco
  8. +4
    2 November 2019 10: 02
    Somewhere after the description of the MiG-3, a guess crept in - was it not Kaptsov? When I got to the "absurd" front pillar I realized - just Kaptsov. Somehow I'm not used to such a trick in articles about aviation.
    1. 0
      2 November 2019 10: 25
      Yes, come on, everything was clear in the title.
    2. +1
      2 November 2019 13: 04
      Quote: Narak-zempo
      and not Kaptsov?

      And what other author can find such a nuclear mixture of illiteracy and amateurism?
  9. +4
    2 November 2019 10: 53
    The problem of insufficient roll speed was solved by installing aileron boosters in modification J, after which the P-38 was one of the best in this parameter.
  10. +8
    2 November 2019 11: 50
    From an engineering point of view, a slight forward tilt of the main landing gear in the extended state (with the scheme of their retraction in flight) is the most optimal in terms of the reliability of this mechanism and the fixation of the drive levers. Since, with such a "triangle of forces" scheme, the weight of the aircraft itself will additionally hinder the folding of the landing gear (operating on the ground). IMHO

    The given examples of "Airacobra" and "MiG", in my opinion, are incorrect, since they have the main landing gear, folding sideways in flight!
    1. +1
      3 November 2019 11: 16
      That's right, Comrade Pishchak! There is an understanding of technology and knowledge of physics. Well done!
      1. +2
        3 November 2019 11: 19
        hi Well, the Soviet engineering school and decades of industrial practice! Yes
        1. Alf
          +3
          3 November 2019 20: 53
          Quote: pishchak
          hi Well, the Soviet engineering school and decades of industrial practice! Yes

          You do not understand anything, here the best of the best experts have gathered! laughing
          If there are some, thanks to Jupiter Optimus, they even kicked out Alt Alt ...
    2. +1
      5 November 2019 09: 57
      I will support. Anyone who understands the kinematics of mechanisms understands that the legs are tilted forward so that the racks pass the dead center. Even if the legs are not locked, you will have insurance against folding the chassis.
  11. +8
    2 November 2019 15: 13
    For the first time, twenty years ago, the Russian researcher Oleg Teslenko drew attention to the paradoxical construction of Lightning. He then expanded his view of the problem somewhat and obtained unexpected results.
    Teslenko got an "unexpected result" in all the historical issues he touched upon wassat
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +4
      2 November 2019 17: 02
      is it not the same as "yellow foam"?
      1. -2
        2 November 2019 19: 18
        As you know, from genius to madness is one step. Therefore, it is not surprising that some sound ideas of O. Teslenko are accompanied by obviously strange ones.

        I'm not going to agree with everything Teslenko writes about, but he has some really interesting thoughts. The same lightning - none of us noticed its features, but he noticed

        And you are probably more interested in polystyrene
        1. +3
          2 November 2019 19: 46
          Quote: Santa Fe
          As you know, from genius to madness is one step.

          Hmm ... heal.
        2. +1
          2 November 2019 19: 55
          Quote: Santa Fe
          The same lightning - none of us noticed its features, but he noticed

          Oleg, it's up to you, but still in vain you have now reached Teslenko. Nobody will ever forget the structural protection of ships, but here it is.
      2. +2
        2 November 2019 19: 32
        Quote: Avis-bis
        is it not the same as "yellow foam"?

        He is.
        1. +3
          2 November 2019 19: 45
          Quote: tesser
          Quote: Avis-bis
          is it not the same as "yellow foam"?

          He is.

          ... and then I swearingly obscured ...
          1. +1
            2 November 2019 19: 50
            There is so much empty space, because Johnson put cubic meters of yellow polystyrene into the lightning. To provide displacement, in the sense of buoyancy. Tricky plan.
            1. +2
              3 November 2019 00: 26
              Moreover, Johnson went through as many as six options, blew them in the pipe and chose, as Kaptsov established, the worst.
              1. 0
                3 November 2019 00: 46
                Howard Hughes was Johnson’s competitor in the BBC competition, both prototypes were very similar in design and performance. The latter accused Johnson of plagiarism. Indeed, some of the Hughes technicians moved to Johnson shortly before the competition.
                1. +2
                  3 November 2019 01: 22
                  USAAC Design Competition X-608 was attended by Boeing, Consolidated, Curtiss-Wright, Hughes, Lockheed, Vultee.

                  Hughes D-2 submitted by Hughes.
                  1. +1
                    3 November 2019 01: 25
                    Hughes is not so wrong in his suspicions judging by the photo
                  2. +2
                    3 November 2019 01: 26

                    Vultee XP1015. As you can see, everything with a front desk in accordance with the terms of the competition. But for Kaptsov this is a mystery.
                    1. +1
                      3 November 2019 01: 33
                      So TTZ was like that.
                      Another "feature" of the aircraft was that the engines rotated in opposite directions, which eliminated many problems with the aircraft control and when taxiing on the ground and in the air.
                    2. 0
                      5 November 2019 16: 01
                      Quote: Undecim
                      As you can see, everything with a front desk in accordance with the terms of the competition.

                      It is immediately clear to the designer that the "head" was originally designed for the front leg: otherwise it would have been pushed back, and large movements of the central nacelle during the design process are extremely unpleasant, so I strongly doubt that Johnson reworked the chassis scheme along the way. affairs.
                      That was originally conceived. Why - a separate issue (this must be read in the original TK).
  12. +12
    2 November 2019 16: 02
    the story of Lightning is turning into a complete absurdity. as presented by the author of the article, Oleg Kaptsov, inspired by the research of a certain noun-name Teslenko, who, completely lacking even the initial concepts in the field of creating any mechanisms, suddenly decided. that they can criticize in such terms "Kelly" Johnson, the designer who has created more than forty aircraft, many of which are "first in the world" and many awarded the Collier Trophy, and is ranked eighth in a hundred "stars of the aerospace era."
    Specially close-up layout of the fuselage R-38.

    "For what purpose did he obsessively try to 'push' a bulky nose pillar onto the fighter, 'stretching' the central gondola in all directions? This moment will forever remain unsolved secret aviation." Again, this moment is an unsolved mystery only for the author, because if you look into any textbook on aircraft design, which describes in detail the advantages and disadvantages of the three-leg landing gear scheme with tail and front support, how the unsolved mystery is easily solved.
    1. +9
      2 November 2019 16: 10
      Fighter "Lightning", most likely, was originally designed for the scheme of the chassis with a tail wheel
      The Lightning fighter was never designed for a tail-mounted landing gear, since the Circular Proposal X-608 (USAAC specifications, according to which the aircraft was designed) immediately laid down the requirements for a front support.

      Pictured is Lockheed 22, the prototype that would later become the Lightning R-38.
      1. +9
        2 November 2019 16: 31
        O. Teslenko draws attention to the fact that the struts in the released position have a pronounced forward inclination, which is pointless and even harmful for a three-post aircraft with a nose wheel.
        It is senseless and harmful to write articles on subjects in which the author has no idea.
        The main geometric parameters of the landing gear scheme with the front support are the longitudinal base, track, chassis height, the removal of the main supports relative to the center of gravity, as well as the angles: parking (angle between the fuselage axis when the aircraft is stationary and the ground plane), landing (angle between the fuselage axis and the line connecting the point of contact of the wheels of the main supports and the ground with the safety support on the fuselage), the angle of removal of the main supports and the angle characterizing the track. Most of the parameters listed are related.
        And this configuration of the racks provides the optimal combination of the above parameters.
        1. -5
          2 November 2019 19: 21
          And how does your professional commentary answer the question posed?

          Why the angle of removal of the main supports P-38 (forward) does not correspond to that adopted for aircraft with a nose landing gear
          1. +9
            2 November 2019 19: 50
            Why the angle of removal of the main supports P-38 (forward) does not correspond to that adopted for aircraft with a nose landing gear
            Because you didn’t even bother to figure out what you are asking. Firstly, the angle of removal of the main supports is only for aircraft with a front support. Aircraft with a tail support do not have this characteristic.
            Second, it does not exist "forward" and "backward", since it is not determined by the inclination of the landing gear, it is determined by the position of the center of mass of the aircraft and the angle of overturning of the aircraft.
            And you can "see" it only if you have the aircraft alignment and the drawing.

            On the diagram:
            b - chassis base;
            B - track chassis;
            H - chassis height;
            e - removal of the main supports;
            g is the angle of removal of the main supports;
            jo - tipping angle;
            jst - parking angle
            The angle of removal of the main supports g = jо + (1 - 2 degrees)
            1. +5
              2 November 2019 20: 02
              Quote: Undecim
              Because you didn’t even bother to figure out what you are asking.

              Do not shoot at the Red Cross (pianist))
            2. -6
              3 November 2019 08: 16
              Quote: Undecim
              The angle of removal of the main supports g = jо + (1 - 2 degrees)

              This is undoubtedly useful information, which was so lacking for discussion))

              And the question was -

              CT Lightning is located in the area where the engines are installed, the most massive structural elements. Where the wing and the gondola are located. Those. 100% somewhere between the bow and the main landing gear.

              Then why do the main landing gears have a slope
              towards the center of gravity of the aircraft, i.e. reducing the "shoulder"


              Indeed, by all the rules of logic, physics and geometry - for greater stability of the object, its supports should be spaced as far as possible from the center of gravity.

              So at Lightning, the main supports should have a slope away from the DH, not the way we see the diagrams. There must be an explanation for this, but apparently you do not know him.

              What terms are used by professionals - in this case, it does not matter. And what kind of professionals are they, if they are unable to clearly answer the simplest question, trying to hide their ignorance behind technical terms?
              1. +10
                3 November 2019 11: 14
                Kaptsov, the whole problem is that you persist in your ignorance and demand an answer to the stupidity formulated or borrowed from the same ignoramus in the form of a postulate by all the rules of logic, physics and geometry - for greater stability of the object, its supports should be spaced as far as possible from the center of gravity, and unwillingness or inability to understand the explanations presented to you of how the chassis parameters are determined by covering trolling about someone else's inability.
                Meanwhile, in the commentary in Russian it is written that the center of rotation of the main landing gear and the track is determined not by the stupidity of "as far as possible" or "as wide as possible", but in the condition of ensuring the necessary position of the aircraft in the process of landing, the minimum takeoff and run distances, and runway stability and maneuvering.
                Therefore, it is not the inclination of the struts that matters, but the optimal position of the centers of rotation of the wheels of the chassis relative to the center of gravity of the aircraft, obtained by calculation by the appropriate method. It is with this parameter in mind that the designer composes the chassis and, to ensure this parameter, can tilt the racks forward, backward or leave them vertical.
                As for your "as far as possible", if the extension of the main supports is carried out in accordance with this "method" and is more than 20% of the longitudinal base of the landing gear, then it becomes difficult to detach the front support when the aircraft reaches the takeoff angle of attack. In this case, the separation will occur at a higher speed and, therefore, the length will increase
                take-off run.
                If it is reduced to less than 15% of the longitudinal base, an easy separation will be ensured.
                front support, however, with a small extension, the aircraft can be transferred to the tail.
                The extension of the front support a is selected so that when the aircraft is stationary, the load on it is 6 ... 12% of the weight of the aircraft. If the load on the front support is too low, the controllability of the aircraft when taxiing is impaired. With an increase in load, the mass of the support and the mass of the nose of the fuselage increase.
                In the same way, "as shirshe as possible". Track B depends mainly on the height of the center of mass of the aircraft. At the same time, the desire to follow the track "as wide as possible" is limited by the dimensions of the airfield runway and the aircraft may simply not turn around on it.
                On this I close the course of educational program.
                1. -1
                  4 November 2019 06: 08
                  Quote: Undecim
                  Therefore, it is not the inclination of the racks that matters, but optimal obtained by calculation by the appropriate method the position of the centers of rotation of the wheels of the chassis relative to the center of gravity of the aircraft.

                  Awesome knowledge, how about this I did not know about this before))
                  What you wrote can be read at the beginning of the textbook. But it would be desirable for you, as a professional, to understand and explain the essence, and not
                  Quote: Undecim
                  The angle of removal of the main supports g = jо + (1 - 2 degrees) - (This undoubtedly gives a scientific look, but nothing will clarify the essence of the question)



                  If without fussing, here we take the picture you provided:

                  I’m interested in the parameter γ (which you didn’t even mention anywhere, instead telling about the height and track - commendable, brave)

                  Gamma - the angle between the center of rotation of the main chassis and the center of mass

                  The question is, in the case of an airplane with a nose stand and a CM located between the front and main landing gear (lightning), should the gamma angle be positive or negative, counting from the normal (we will take: clockwise - positive, counterclockwise - negative).

                  In other words - should the designer strive to reduce the base - so that the distance between the centers of rotation of the chassis is less than the distance between the places of attachment of the struts to the fuselage

                  3. If the centers of rotation naxle and main chassis are located ahead of the center of mass - Does it somehow affect the stability of the aircraft?

                  Still, a purely leading question - in which case the truncated pyramid becomes more stable - put on a large or small basis
                  1. +1
                    4 November 2019 08: 48
                    Kaptsov, Oleg! After reading your last comment, I am at a loss.
                    On the one hand, I have to apologize, because when I inserted the text I did not notice that the text editor replaced the letter γ (gamma) with the English g.
                    That is, it should be like this
                    b - chassis base;
                    B - track chassis;
                    H - chassis height;
                    e - removal of the main supports;
                    γ is the angle of removal of the main supports;
                    jo - tipping angle;
                    jst is the parking angle.
                    And so
                    γ = jо + (1 - 2 degrees)
                    That is parameter γ (which you did not even mention anywhere) - This is just the angle of removal of the main supports, which I always mention.
                    Accordingly, the center of rotation of the main struts "in front" of the center of mass cannot be, the plane will overturn "on its tail".
                    This is on the one hand. On the other hand, your last comment convinces me that I’m right (sorry again) that you don’t understand the question at all, because you don’t even compare the diagram and the text and you weren’t able to read the textbook, as if you had reached to the chapter on chassis calculation, you would immediately see an error in my text.
                    Therefore, I apologize for the error or typo. Everything else about your knowledge in the field of aviation remains valid.
                    1. 0
                      4 November 2019 10: 02
                      Good day!

                      Well, this is a question for the great specialist - that he needs five comments the size of a brick to even come close to answering a simple question. And here is not about a typo with a symbol. A typo is a trifle. The problem is that the specialist "poured water" clogging up your comment with irrelevant details. And in this thread it was difficult to get common sense, but with a confused symbol it was generally impossible.

                      The main thing is:
                      "the center of rotation of the main struts" in front "of the center of mass cannot be, the plane will overturn" on its tail. "

                      "If it is reduced to less than 15% of the longitudinal base, an easy separation will be provided.
                      front support, however, with a small offset it is possible to transfer the aircraft to the tail


                      Those. minimum gamma angle - 15 degrees.

                      When the height of the center of mass of Lightning above the ground (approximately) is 2 meters, the center of rotation of the main landing gear must be at a distance least tangent 15 deg. * 2 = 0,5 m



                      That's the way to explain rather than retyping tutorials.
                      "The main geometrical parameters of the landing gear layout with the front support are the longitudinal base, track, chassis height, extension of the main supports relative to the center of gravity, as well as the angles: parking (the angle between the fuselage axis when the aircraft is parked and the ground plane), landing (the angle between the fuselage axis and by a line connecting the point of contact of the wheels of the main supports and the ground with the safety support on the fuselage), the angle of the main supports and the angle characterizing the track Most of the listed parameters are related.
                      And this rack configuration provides an optimal combination of the above parameters. "
                      1. +1
                        4 November 2019 10: 35
                        It is certainly more convenient, to blame someone for your own ignorance. But let's not talk about that. Where did you see the angle of 15 degrees?
                        I have it written "15-20% of the longitudinal chassis base".
                        The longitudinal base of the chassis is b, which is measured in meters.
                        Sorry again, but who are you in basic education - humanities?
                      2. 0
                        4 November 2019 11: 34
                        You are so good at clogging your comments with irrelevant information that you can confuse any opponent. Was this a fact? Had. The claim was to the point.

                        Flipping "bricks" is hard on a mobile screen. And just before that there was a conversation about corners. But I apologize of course

                        So, the value "e" should be within 15-20% of the base
                        Lightning base - 3 meters
                        This means, under specified conditions, the center of rotation of the chassis should be no closer than 0,5 meters behind the center of mass, and no further than 0,6 meters

                        As for the tilt of the racks - in Lightning, the main chassis compartment would be shifted back, which, apparently, is determined by the internal layout. That’s the whole explanation, without further details.
                      3. +1
                        4 November 2019 12: 07
                        I am glad that our discussion has borne at least some fruit. And yet, if you think about writing a "detective" again, try to objectively assess your knowledge of the issue in question.
              2. +3
                3 November 2019 19: 05
                Quote: Santa Fe
                for greater stability of the object, its supports should be spaced as far as possible from the center of gravity ......

                The supporting surface of the main landing gear must just be located near the center of gravity (if you look along the axis of the aircraft), since almost all the weight of the aircraft is on them. And based on this, the R-38 wheels themselves are exactly where they should have been. But the landing gear of the landing gear, most likely due to the peculiarities of the internal layout of the nacelle, had to be shifted a little back.
          2. +7
            2 November 2019 20: 03
            By the way, your thesis "According to all the rules of physics and geometry, the landing gear should be as far from the aircraft's center of gravity as possible. By the way, it is no coincidence that the Lightning has such a long nacelle - it was necessary to place the nose pillar as far forward as possible, away from the main landing gear line. is another nonsense, sorry for directness, since the removal of the front support is determined by the track of the chassis and the removal of the main supports.
        2. +4
          3 November 2019 11: 27
          There is no need to criticize Teslenko and the author of the article. The depth of knowledge is always long. Imagine this comment of yours built a little differently: "The configuration of the landing gear of the P-38 Lightning aircraft provides an optimal combination of such parameters as: longitudinal base, track, landing gear height, extension of the main supports relative to the center of gravity, and angles: parking (the angle between the fuselage axis when the aircraft is parked and the ground plane), landing (the angle between the fuselage axis and the line connecting the point of contact of the wheels of the main supports and the ground with the safety support on the fuselage), the offset angle of the main supports and the angle characterizing the track. Most of the parameters listed are related. "
          It seems to me that your comment looks more interesting.
    2. +6
      2 November 2019 19: 37
      Quote: Undecim
      a certain Taylenko noun

      If nouname. This is the greatest man of all whom the orderlies have not yet fixed. Collaboration of two such Olegs - what could be more enchanting !?
      1. Alf
        +5
        2 November 2019 20: 46
        Quote: tesser
        . This is the greatest man of all whom the orderlies have not yet fixed.

        Nope. The greatest was, not to be remembered by nightfall, Zeus-Carbine, a fan of a DT heavy rifle on a bipod and Kiraly, the best submachine gun of WW2. Thank God, it seems, he was "fixed".
    3. +1
      3 November 2019 16: 19
      Quote: Undecim
      For what purpose did he obsessively try to "push" the bulky nose pillar onto the fighter, "stretching" the central gondola in all directions? This moment will forever remain an unsolved secret aviation. "Again, this moment is an unsolved mystery only for the author, because if you look into any textbook on aircraft design, which describes in detail the advantages and disadvantages of a tricycle landing gear with a tail and a front support, it looks like an unsolved the mystery is easily solved.

      Good afternoon.
      Given the logic, geometry and other elementary things, is it possible to assume that the following nuances can be indicated in the answer to the author’s question:
      1. The front strut is flush with the propellers. The clearance between the ground and the edge of the propeller blade is 25cm (Data from the flight manual). That is one of the reasons for this arrangement of the points of the chassis is a small clearance of the propeller with all the ensuing risks during landing.
      2. If you look at the history of the creation of aerocobra, gruman, thunderbolt ... then the barrel-shaped, symmetrical, licked shape of the body is dictated by the desire to achieve minimal aerodynamic drag. It turns out that Johnson just had to make the gondola chubby. The fact that he did not fill it with trash is dictated by the lightweight design of the gondola with not the highest strength of the hull.
      Somewhere like that.
      1. +2
        3 November 2019 16: 43
        Here, as in the case of the chassis, there is no need to "open" anything. Fuselage "Lightning" has a classic semi-monocoque design, which allows to provide the necessary strength and rigidity with minimal weight and consists of a working skin, reinforced by the frame and providing good aerodynamics.
        1. +1
          3 November 2019 23: 00
          Quote: Undecim
          allowing to provide the necessary strength and rigidity with a minimum weight and consisting of a working casing, reinforced by a frame and providing good aerodynamics.

          Yes. I agree completely.
    4. 0
      5 November 2019 16: 10
      Quote: Undecim
      if you look at any textbook on aircraft design, which describes in detail the advantages and disadvantages of the three-leg landing gear scheme with tail and front support, how the unsolved mystery is easily solved.

      Well, not so simple ...
      A plane is always some kind of compromise, the rejection of something in favor of another something. So that - in principle - it can be assumed that the layout of the central gondola on the Lightning was not optimal - it was just that the task was different.
      The most unpleasant thing here is that the author fundamentally ignores the TTZ for this car: it turns out that Johnson sat for a long time and picked his nose, and then suddenly, "bam!", And gave birth to "Lightning" ... But it was all completely different : there was an order for a very specific aircraft from the military (whether that order was successful or not is a separate song), but the author of this order is not gu-gu. Either he has no idea what he is writing about, or he wants cheap scandalous popularity ...
  13. Alf
    +3
    2 November 2019 17: 12
    P-82 - real cars that have successfully proven themselves in practice and in hostilities.

    In what ? Twins did not participate in WW2 due to being late.
    In Korea, they proved themselves "splendid", shooting down as many as 4 aircraft during the entire period.
    F-82 gained 4 air victories in Korea and destroyed 16 more enemy aircraft on the ground.
    1. +3
      3 November 2019 11: 31
      My father fought in Korea. He told me that the Twin Mustang was used there as a tactical scout. He did not win any laurels there. When MiGs or Korean Yak-9 appeared, it turned around and with a decrease went to the rear.
      1. Alf
        +1
        3 November 2019 20: 59
        Quote: rubin6286
        Korean Yak-9 unfolded and with a decline went to the rear.

        I did it right. How to fight with the YAKs, if at 6000 Twin climbed right in 7 minutes, and it's scary to even think about the horizontal. But he was called a fighter ...
  14. +1
    2 November 2019 18: 12
    Beautiful plane
  15. +3
    2 November 2019 20: 04
    Layout options R-38 was about a dozen. Hence the atavisms in the construction, inexplicable at first glance.
  16. +5
    2 November 2019 21: 10
    I wonder how long it will take amateurs to make "phenomenal discoveries" ...? Maybe you should open the textbooks for a start?
    The vertical layout of the gondola is primarily a solution to the problem of track stability, which is initially insufficient on a two-beam scheme. And the stiffness of the beams does not allow to increase the size of the keels.
    1. -6
      2 November 2019 21: 24
      Then what ensured the track stability of the P-82 Twin Mustang. Without any gondola

      This fact alone makes your explanation incomplete. If true at all
      1. +5
        2 November 2019 23: 00
        Twin Mustang spark - there are two normal fuselages with full keels and having a corresponding vertical section. Lightning does not have fuselages but beams - and almost round in cross section ...
        1. -6
          3 November 2019 09: 06
          Taoist, road stability consists of two factors - vertical plumage and the surface area of ​​the fuselage Beyond the center of mass

          1. The vertical plumage of Lightning and Twin Mustang was basically identical and consisted of two keels

          2. How a gondola could affect track stability if most of it was in front of the center of mass

          3. Lightning beams in their dimensions and shape are practically indistinguishable from the Mustang's fuselage. And you are wrong, describing them as round in cross-section - you can easily verify this by looking at the P-38 diagram in any projection



          4. One of the earliest layout options for Lightning was the layout with the motors in the front of the beams, and the cockpit in the left beam. WITHOUT ANY GONDOLA

          5. Modern Virgin Galactica - two completely round fuselage beams



          All this means one thing - you, Taoist, once again cleverly ridiculed nonsense and are trying to look like a specialist. The choice of a large gondola has nothing to do with track stability
          1. +7
            3 November 2019 17: 20
            You write nonsense ... Open the textbook on aerodynamics. To start. And compare the relative area of ​​the vertical tail and the vertical projection of the fuselage ... It is hopeless to argue with you, but it is worth remembering that, unlike you, airplanes are designed by people who taught this to you.
            1. -3
              3 November 2019 23: 12
              Quote: Taoist
              And compare the relative area of ​​the vertical tail and the vertical projection of the fuselage ... It is hopeless to argue with you, but it is worth remembering that, unlike you, airplanes are constructed by people who taught this to you.


              You and compare - lightning and twin Mustang. I regularly bring you facts, and you just puff out your cheeks
              1. +3
                3 November 2019 23: 38
                You do not give facts, you give speculations ... And the facts ... Well, take and impose side projections - let's see what happens. (do not confuse the main scale) well, and the section of the fuselage by spations ... also helps a lot. However, you always sweep away everything that does not fit into your speculation ...
                1. -2
                  4 November 2019 05: 36
                  Quote: Taoist
                  And the facts ... Well, take and apply side projections - let's see what happens.

                  Do, do, show everyone your innocence

                  Why opponent should do it for you
                  Quote: Taoist
                  You do not give facts, you give speculation ...

                  Those. Do you not believe in the existence of the Lightnig variant without a gondola?
                  Or virgin glactica?

                  What do you think provides their track stability
                  1. +2
                    4 November 2019 15: 02
                    Interestingly, the Tu-16 has two boxes of not small size, where, it seems, there is nothing except the chassis - and this does not cause any questions.

                    And at Lightning a little added the height of the gondola (rather narrow, I must say), so that the front desk fits - and a dispute .......
              2. -1
                4 November 2019 16: 49
                what aggressive .sky disholysis.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  17. +2
    2 November 2019 21: 11
    Honestly, I usually like Kaptsov's articles, lush, well-illustrated, not standard little. :)

    On the other hand, weirdnesses regularly occur, like this one:
    In this case, the creators of Lightning artificially increased the dimensions of the gondola so that its lower edge was as close to the ground as possible.

    The payment for this decision was the increased drag. But the designers had no choice ...


    On the one hand, it is written about the increase in the length of the nose gear of the length of the gondola. On the other hand, we immediately write about increasing the height of the gondola to reduce the length of the chassis apparently :)

    Well, how do you finally need to decide whether the gondola is long at the R-38 or is it still high? laughing
    1. -4
      2 November 2019 21: 25
      Both long and high
      1. +3
        2 November 2019 21: 29
        Quote: Santa Fe
        Both long and high

        And which of these do you think has become a serious problem? I see that Lightning quite successfully hides his stick under his belly and uses a long gondola as a container for weapons and ammunition. Which is commendable.

        What is your problem?
        1. +2
          2 November 2019 21: 53
          My personal opinion is that Clarissa Johnson has stocked so much space in width in the gondola for the navigator. So to speak, a stock pocket does not pull. That is, he saw his airplane double all the same. The navigator, the bomber sight would have climbed quite well. And God himself ordered to lower the beak of the gondola down - to provide an overview when approaching, when attacking an air or ground target. See how it was done for a moment 27.
          And the armament is weak. There would be a standard 4 to 20 just right. Maybe he made a reserve for more powerful weapons, but the military did not want to change, and then they did not change the equipment. And do not forget that, unlike forum sofas, Johnson did not hesitate to spend time blowing in the wind tunnel, thanks to which he became the chief designer of the lockhide. It is likely that the shape and size of the droplets were justified aerodynamically, and were found during numerous purges.
          1. +1
            2 November 2019 22: 06
            As an option, carrying forward a heavy strut was a forced decision to achieve more front alignment, so as not to touch the structure of the junction of the wing and beams, and not to remodel the entire aircraft.
            For example, the plumage and beams were heavier than anticipated, the fuel in the rear of the fuselage was heavier, and so they moved their beak down and forward to compensate for the mixing back centering.
            Guys, think over a model of lightning in a pipe, fly around an experienced aircraft, measure the max and min, then it may be clear. Or maybe not. Reptilians they are secretive .....
          2. +3
            2 November 2019 22: 53
            Quote: sergevl
            That is, he saw his airplane double all the same. Navigator, a bomber sight would have climbed

            And climbed. Modifications Drop Snoot and Pathfinder.


          3. Alf
            0
            3 November 2019 21: 02
            Quote: sergevl
            There would be a standard 4 to 20 just right.

            It is unlikely that they got in there, and even with BC.
        2. -2
          2 November 2019 23: 08
          If the upper part of the gondola is filled in an obvious way (the cabin and in front of it are weapons), then the lower part of the gondola actually exists for the chassis compartment

          Due to the inability to make the stand long enough, it was necessary to increase the size of the gondola - so that its lower edge was as close to the ground as possible.

          All this is excess weight and resistance in flight.

          As practice shows, similar aircraft (Twin Mustang and Rama) cost a simpler chassis layout.

          Kelly Johnson probably had the most serious reasons to do his Lightning only with a bow stance. Why - neither I, and none of the commentators know this. All of the above explanations (insufficient strength of the beams, ensuring track stability, etc.) are clearly insufficient

          In any case, the example with Lightning shows what an expensive price you have to pay for one, it would seem, not the most important and complex structural element. And, you see, such a technical detective turned out to be much more interesting that a retelling of known facts about Lightning hi
          1. +6
            3 November 2019 00: 12
            Kelly Johnson probably had the most serious reasons to do his Lightning only with a bow stance. Why - neither I, and none of the commentators know this.
            Kaptsov, stubbornness and stubbornness, as well as pride and pride are different things. Your article "detective" can only be for the same ignorant people in aviation as you.
            You could just as well write a "detective" why the Douglas A-20 Havoc, or the Douglas XB-19 or Douglas A-26 Invader, Fairchild AT-21 “Gunner”, Grumman F7F Tigercat, etc. the like.

            There will be enough plots for a long time. Agatha Christie will surpass.
          2. -4
            3 November 2019 00: 32
            The gondola is large - its length was more than 6 meters, and the largest transverse size (height) in the place where the pilot's seat was, reached 2 meters!

            In fact, everything is simple. The central gondola had to be taken down so high because of the need to give lateral visibility. Because of the motors, the pilot would not see anything to the sides, if the gondola was "lower"
            1. 0
              3 November 2019 07: 51
              Quote: Town Hall
              The central gondola had to be lowered so high due to the need to give lateral visibility. Because of the motors, the pilot would not have seen anything to the sides if the gondola was "lower"

              No, Town Hall, this is not true.

              The upper part of the gondola just does not stand out. The whole interest is related to the fact that under the pilot’s feet there was an 1 meter of emptiness (unexpectedly capacious compartment of the chassis, more than the dimensions of the rack itself required)
          3. 0
            5 November 2019 16: 40
            Quote: Santa Fe
            In any case, the example with Lightning shows what an expensive price you have to pay for one, it would seem, not the most important and complex structural element.

            What is this "expensive price" ?! Have you evaluated it, "weighed" it?
            A dumb guy blurted out that - in his amateurish opinion - the gondola is too big, and you repeat, you yourself just do not understand that ...
          4. 0
            5 November 2019 16: 41
            Quote: Santa Fe
            And, you see, such a technical detective turned out to be much more interesting that a retelling of known facts about Lightning

            It's not the same for everybody! It’s just the time for the sofa analyst, and it’s boring for the professional to read such nonsense ...
            I wanted to throw the link to my nephew, but as I got to your pearl about the geometry of the chassis, I immediately realized that there was nothing for youth to brainwash this rubbish.
          5. 0
            5 November 2019 16: 45
            Quote: Santa Fe
            Kelly Johnson probably had the most serious reasons to do his Lightning only with a bow stance. Why - neither I, and none of the commentators know this. All of the above explanations (insufficient strength of the beams, ensuring track stability, etc.) are clearly insufficient

            As I already wrote here, it was necessary to bring the text of the TTZ to the competition. You did not do this, and the commentators claim that this text is known and there it was clearly said about the front "leg".
            It’s not so bad that you made some mistakes, but that you don’t want to admit it ...
  18. +1
    2 November 2019 21: 46
    The article does not say anything about the reconnaissance version of the Lightning. Exupery flew just such an airplane. Where was the camera located in the car? How big was it? If it was located at the place of armament, how did it take pictures, if there was a landing gear underneath?
    Maybe this is one of the reasons for the development of such a variant of the gondola?
    1. +5
      2 November 2019 22: 25
      Reconnaissance options Lockheed P-38 Lightning:
      F-4, F4A, F5A, B, C, D, E, F, G.
      The re-equipment was carried out by removing the standard weapons and installing four Fairchild K-17 cameras in its place.
      Converted P-38 modifications starting with E.

      Lockheed P-38 Lightning F-5A
      1. +3
        2 November 2019 22: 26

        Installation of cameras.
        1. +4
          2 November 2019 22: 27

          Camera maintenance.
          1. +3
            2 November 2019 22: 29

            Fairchild K-17 camera.
            1. 0
              2 November 2019 23: 02
              And in the reconnaissance version under the hood there is really a lot of "air"
            2. +1
              3 November 2019 06: 51
              Thank. Very intelligible.
            3. +1
              4 November 2019 13: 08
              I can imagine a lot. But I can’t imagine the misery of an individual who puts a minus under the image of the camera.
              1. +1
                4 November 2019 16: 07
                He painted himself in those colors that painted)))))
      2. +2
        2 November 2019 23: 29
        A curious episode is connected with Lightning. One instance of Lightning had the "honor" of being the last aircraft shot down by a biplane in history)
        It happened in February 45 over Croatia. The German biplane pilot Fiat CR42 shot down Lightning in an air battle)
        1. +1
          3 November 2019 01: 30
          Thank! Interesting fact.
          1. 0
            3 November 2019 01: 39
            hi it happened on February 8, 45. Lightning belonged to the 14th Fighter Group USA. and the Fiat CR42 -2 squadron from NSGr 7 (Nachtschlachtgruppe 7)
          2. 0
            3 November 2019 01: 46
            Other Lightning records are the first American plane to hit a German plane (Condor), the first escort fighter to reach Berlin, and the only American fighter to be launched from the first to the last day of World War II
        2. Alf
          +2
          3 November 2019 21: 04
          Quote: Town Hall
          A curious episode is connected with Lightning. One instance of Lightning had the "honor" of being the last aircraft shot down by a biplane in history)
          It happened in February 45 over Croatia. The German biplane pilot Fiat CR42 shot down Lightning in an air battle)

          Golubev in 43rd on Ishak dumped Fokker. Competent tactics and choice of the moment.
  19. +5
    3 November 2019 00: 08
    Quote: Santa Fe
    As you know, from genius to madness is one step. Therefore, it is not surprising that some sound ideas of O. Teslenko are accompanied by obviously strange ones.

    I'm not going to agree with everything Teslenko writes about, but he has some really interesting thoughts. The same lightning - none of us noticed its features, but he noticed

    And you are probably more interested in polystyrene

    I read an article on Lurka, looked at the Teslenko site ... I dig into the memory, compared the style, vocabulary, terminology and, Eureka !!! I remembered everything! Teslenko is the very one whose article on the Tu-154 crash (near Irkutsk like the a / c Baikal, when they broke into a tailspin in the third U-turn) was published by Komsomolskaya Pravda. The article caused a huge amount of emotions: from surprise to nausea and shame. In it, the author spoke about the causes of the disaster. A shock was the mention of carcass control: roll, allegedly, is achieved by reducing / increasing the thrust of the side engines.
    SPECIALLY FOR OLEG KAPTSOV: Oleg, and after all Teslenko's "opuses" do you refer to him as a reliable and reasonable source? If so, then that's all, finish. We arrived ... Turn off the engine, drain the water ...
    1. -5
      3 November 2019 00: 58
      Now suppress emotions and turn off caps lock

      I am not interested in either the Tu-154 disaster in the Komsomol, nor the yellow polystyrene, why discuss really erroneous and meaningless things

      But Teslenko has many interesting articles. For example, you can take - "damage to the cruiser Prince Eugen in the dock." Google. Read. What do you think is wrong in that article, what is the contradiction, where is the author wrong. If there are no contradictions, then you have to admit - he is right

      With Lightning, it’s even easier - he was the first among Russian-speaking authors to notice the curious features of its design. Further analysis, comparison and conclusions are the business of everyone who is interested in the topic.

      It was a discovery for me - how such a seemingly insignificant element (landing gear) so influenced the entire design of the fighter
      1. +6
        3 November 2019 01: 29
        Oleg, well, without emotions, well, nothing will come of it, not an arithmometer, tea. And Caps Lock is just for attention.
        Oleg, here you write that you are not interested in either polystyrene or Tu-154. Good. The truth is not clear why. This is his works, but you somehow cut them off ...
        Teslenko has a lot of interesting articles. I won't talk about Eugen, the fleet is not mine. Today I read about aviation on his website about the Tu-204 in Vnukovo and about stopping the engines (due to the addition of water by the refueller instead of the stolen and drunk kerosene). Many things.
        And do you know what is the constant leitmotif of all his works? That's right: "falsified", "do not represent", "false", "erroneous" ... In all articles the author points out that before him everyone knew nothing and did not understand, but he already ...
        Here in the above article about "Eugen" gunpowder is mentioned: I'm not a specialist, but it could be TNT, ammotol, melanite, smoky / smokeless powder, pyroxylin, finally. The terminology and comparisons about the room in the article are at the level of the typographer of the typography. "His monstrous erudition bordered on monstrous illiteracy."
        You see, if a person is literate, then this will be seen in all his works. Or vice versa.
        And more about Lightning and the features found. Throw on the scales the achievements of the designer of Lightning and Teslenko's regalia. And there will be nothing more to say. Words are empty, and actions speak for themselves.
        1. -2
          3 November 2019 09: 27
          Quote: dmmyak40
          This is his works, but you somehow cut them off ...

          I find his "disaster investigations" pointless and uninteresting.
          And for example, I find his articles about ships interesting.

          That it was written by one person - what difference does it make. Truth does not depend on who speaks it
          Teslenko really has a lot of interesting articles.

          What is the argument then
          Correct: "falsified"

          What can be done if his conclusions ("Damage to Eugen" or "Picture of Bismarck's sinking to the bottom") contradict data from other, canonical sources. But he analyzed the official facts and found a lot of contradictions in them.
          The fact that he is not always familiar with the terminology is secondary. He's not to defend a thesis. We have 100 "pseudoscientific" workers in Russia with degrees and competent speech, writing their dissertations about "turbulent flows in sanitary ware". Without opinions and thoughts at all
          Quote: dmmyak40
          Throw on the scales the achievements of the designer of Lightning and Teslenko's regalia.

          The thoughts of Teslenko and 99% of the local commentators, who cannot give birth to a single interesting idea, should be thrown into the balance. They can only "obscenely keep silent" (s)

          And Kelly Johnson has nothing to do with it. As I already answered: "Kelly Johnson probably had the most serious reasons to make his Lightning only with a nose strut. Why - neither I, and none of the commentators know this. All the explanations given (insufficient strength of the beams, providing directional stability, etc.) are clearly insufficient

          In any case, the example with Lightning shows what an expensive price you have to pay for one, it would seem, not the most important and complex structural element. And, you see, such a technical detective turned out to be much more interesting that a retelling of known facts about Lightning
  20. +3
    3 November 2019 04: 30
    But, as follows from the epic with the F-104, even professionals in their field, such as Kelly Johnson, are capable of making serious mistakes.

    It was not Kelly Johnson who was mistaken, but the military who issued those. task to the car. "Starfighter" became notorious in the Air Forces of Germany and Canada, where the car was "raped" and turned from the original designed and built as a high-speed interceptor aircraft into a low-altitude fighter-bomber. The Japanese, who have operated more than 200 F-104Js, and the Spaniards who used them for their intended purpose, have not lost a single aircraft in more than a quarter century.
    1. 0
      4 November 2019 16: 02
      Joke? Not a single one lost? In twenty five years?
      1. 0
        7 November 2019 16: 37
        The Spaniards, yes, but there is a shorter period, not 25. In Japan (from 1962 to 1986) 36 cars were written off from the 230 in operation for various reasons, but the Starfighter did not kill a single pilot.
  21. +4
    3 November 2019 12: 15
    This is very funny, because the central section of the Lightning is longer than the entire Soviet I-16 fighter, from the propeller to the trailing edge of the rudder! And just a couple of meters shorter than the MiG-3.

    And what's funny? If you look closely at the longitudinal section of the MiG given in your article, you will see that these very "couple of meters" are practically not occupied with anything. There is 80% air.
    For some reason, the Lightning's fuselage gondola (also over 6 meters) was only enough for a pilot's cabin and weapons: a 20-mm cannon and four machine guns.

    Only? And nothing that one large-caliber machine gun weighs as much as three ShKAS? And there are four of them, plus a 20mm cannon that weighs like two heavy machine guns. Do not forget about the ammunition load of 2000 rounds of 12,7mm instead of 300 pieces. the MiG, and 150 rounds to 20mm. The Lightning armament layout clearly shows that the entire front part is literally crammed with weapons and ammunition. Well, about the "excessive displacement" everything is well explained by the arrangement of the units on the longitudinal section of the MiG - there is also a void in the very "couple of meters". Aerodynamics dictated to finish the gondola with "excess volumes". Or maybe the general designer was planning to place something promising there in the future? Anything that was just planned for development or was abstractly blurred by the customer's obscure "Wishlist". A brake parachute, for example, or a defense system against an attacking fighter from the rear hemisphere. Beyond the framework of the "legalized" terms of reference, there are a lot of backstage conversations with the customer in the style of "maybe ..." or "but if only, then ...". And any general designer must take into account these very "Wishlist" because we have a competition ... competitors are not asleep.
    1. -2
      3 November 2019 23: 09
      And what's funny? If you look closely at the longitudinal section of the MiG given in your article, you will see that these very "couple of meters" are practically not occupied with anything. There is 80% air.

      Then even funnier. 6-2 was enough for a moment = Only 4 meters to accommodate the engine, cab and weapons

      6 meters lightning has only a cabin and weapons (there is nothing more at the top of the gondola)

      Weapon gauges are not an explanation. Weapons and ammunition were also located at the top of the gondola

      Excessive dimensions of the nacelle are a consequence of the nose gear. And this is an interesting example of how one minor element can affect the design.
  22. +1
    3 November 2019 23: 23
    Quote: Santa Fe
    Then even funnier. 6-2 was enough for a moment = Only 4 meters to accommodate the engine, cab and weapons

    But for me one cellophane mesh is enough for going to the store ... only now I had to order the refrigerator home "with the delivery of the seller." What is wrong I don’t understand ...

    Quote: Santa Fe
    Weapon gauges are not an explanation.

    Well, if you "forget" that the mass, which is three times more for a 12,7mm machine gun compared to a 7,62mm, implies a certain multiple increase in volume. But this is not accurate ... But if you put two 12,7mm and 7,62mm ammunition side by side, then it's a nightmare!

    Quote: Santa Fe
    Weapons and ammunition were also located at the top of the gondola

    But what about layout drawings? Well, God bless them with these drawings ... Let's in a modern way - in the pictures, so to speak. What do we twist on the picture? Where is the ammunition for 12,7mm machine guns located?

    Quote: Santa Fe
    Excessive dimensions of the nacelle are a consequence of the nose gear. And this is an interesting example of how one minor element can affect the design.

    But are you looking for Oleg a black cat in a black room?
    1. 0
      4 November 2019 05: 25
      Quote: DesToeR
      Well, yes, if you "forget" that the mass, which is three times that of a 12,7mm machine gun

      Just look at the situation broader. There was a cannon modification of the MiG-3 (52 released aircraft) with a pair of 20 mm SHVAK. There were fighters of similar sizes even with three synchronized cannons (La-7). There was enough space under the engine hood, and the size of the weapon was always small compared to the power plant

      So the weapon has nothing to do with it. The entire lower part of the gondola is the nose strut compartment, with its hydraulic drive

      Quote: DesToeR
      Let's in a modern way - in the pictures so to speak. What do we twist on the picture? Where is the ammunition for the 12,7mm machine guns located?

      In your photo - just a good angle.

      If you look at the gondola as a whole, then the visible drums with b / c - this is only the very edge of its bow
      The breech of the guns takes place in the top. in front of the cabin, and that's it
      Quote: DesToeR
      Where is the ammunition for the 12,7mm machine guns located?

      With b / c machine guns there is also a question - a disproportionate amount, 500 on the barrel
      Even the heaviest Thunders did not do more 425, but usually flew with 300. In order not to overload, the full b / c was considered redundant

      500 rounds - this is a minute of continuous queue, there will hardly be a chance to use them in battle. Moreover, the ammunition load of the lightning gun is much less - only 150, at the same rate of fire

      It seems that the gondola turned out to be so voluminous that I had to fill it with at least something. It was impossible to establish a couple more firing points - their breech-sticks would stick out in the chassis compartment. because loaded drums with cartridges in the bow
      1. +1
        4 November 2019 09: 47
        Quote: Santa Fe
        Just look at the situation broader.

        I work as a designer, I can’t look at the situation already or wider. There is a technical task of the customer and it must be completed.
        Quote: Santa Fe
        In your photo - just a good p

        I look at the layout drawing and clearly see five large-caliber firing points, four boxes with 12,7mm rounds for the full width of the nacelle plus four feed hoses for feeding ribbons from these boxes, I also see a separate magazine for the gun for 150 rounds. And I also imagine that it is necessary to "smantyrit" at least five more ways to "evacuate" spent cartridges bypassing the boxes and feed hoses. All this is placed rather compactly and easily accessible for maintenance. Those. the designer fully complied with the requirements of the specification for a set of weapons. Why criticize him? Over 500 rounds per barrel 12,7mm? There is practically no air there. The analogy method like two or three guns on the MiG / Lavochkin does not work here, because the designer works with those samples that were approved by the Customer. Well, as far as I remember, initially in the TZ the armament was not a 20mm gun, but a 37mm one, and as they say in Odessa, there are two big differences.
        Quote: Santa Fe
        So the weapon has nothing to do with it. The entire lower part of the gondola is the nose strut compartment, with its hydraulic drive

        Again, what are the questions for the designer? So the customer wanted. Or do you think the customer was wrong?
        1. -1
          4 November 2019 11: 04
          I don't care who you work, just answer to the point. And not meaningless statements "I clearly see five points of large caliber." And what's next, what do you see. This could be seen on many WWII fighters. And this is never a record. With the size that Lightning's gondola had, its weapons occupied only the upper bow

          And if we exclude the absurd possibility of carrying ammunition from 2000 cartridges, then everything would fit in front of the cabin, and the lower part would not be used at all



          Half of the gondola exists only for the sake of the landing gear (you can see the length of the wing of the compartment in the picture)
          "so WANTED" customer " - the customer wanted a fighter with a mass of weapons and b / c no more than 227 kg (500 lb., including ammunition). Therefore, the creators of Lightning tricked him into the Air Force competition as an "interceptor" with significantly heavier weapons.
          However, most of the sorties took air instead of ammunition - 500 cartridges per barrel were redundant, 300 was taken to save weight

          Those. the designer fully complied with the requirements of the ToR for a set of weapons.
          Not performed

          "Initially, in the TZ, the gun was not 20mm, but 37mm, and as they say in Odessa, there are two big differences." - if memory serves, 23 mm.

          And we are not in Odessa, at that distance to the cockpit, in the upper part of the nacelle it was possible to freely install an aircraft gun of any caliber, it did not intersect with the landing gear
          1. +2
            4 November 2019 12: 57
            Quote: Santa Fe
            I don’t care what you work with, just answer on the merits.

            People have already competently answered all your questions. Essentially. And for the chassis with their angle of inclination, and for the weight loss of "excess displacement", and for the aerodynamics of the "nacelle". I was surprised by your lack of understanding of simple things, therefore, having recognized your degree of qualification and the ability to read the drawing, I brought a picture. The layout of the units on the longitudinal section of the MiG, you probably did not even analyze before writing the article. As well as the density of use of the internal volume of the FW-189. I advise you to simply compare the degree of use of internal volumes with the P-38 Lightning.
            Quote: Santa Fe
            This could be seen on many fighters of the WWII era. And this is never a record.

            Not a record. The record is to evaluate the volume using only the length (6m!) And height (2m!). If you are not able to understand that four 20mm cannons distributed throughout the wing and two large-caliber machine guns in the FV-190 fuselage take up more space, then this is not for me.
            Quote: Santa Fe
            Half of the gondola exists only for the sake of the landing gear (you can see the length of the wing of the compartment in the picture)

            For the first time, I see when, when evaluating the effectiveness of a layout, they only operate on length and height ... as a rule, this TEC is the ratio of volume (useful) to some of the characteristics (weight, area).
            Oleg, do you say humanities?
            1. 0
              5 November 2019 16: 58
              DesToeR (Anatoly) Yes, you end with him!
              The guy is off topic: explaining to him what is clear to us and so is not real because he does not know this and DOES NOT WANT to know.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. 0
            6 November 2019 12: 12
            Quote: Santa Fe
            Half of the gondola exists only for the sake of the landing gear (you can see the length of the wing of the compartment in the picture)

  23. +7
    3 November 2019 23: 47
    A couple of amateurs (to put it mildly) consider themselves smarter than one of the best aircraft designers in the world.
    Let's analyze the main points - overweight and increased resistance.
    1. The weight of a couple of square meters of thin-walled aluminum cladding is not as great as the authors are trying to imagine. If used on the Lightning a chassis with a rear support, the main struts would have to be moved forward and lengthened to provide a normal anti-hoop angle. The expected weight gain is lost, visibility on takeoff and landing is impaired, and the risk of accidents during landing increases.
    2. All "aerodynamic deterioration" in the article is reduced to an increase in frontal projection. But this, here's a surprise, is far from the main factor of resistance. For example, the forehead "pitcher" P-47 had a lower drag coefficient than the nicknamed "thin" Bf.109.
    Even if, in theory, you cut the bottom of the Lightning's nacelle (by switching to a landing gear with a tail support or by retracting the nose pillar with a 90 degree turn), this will not improve the aerodynamics of the nacelle ... Johnson (intuitively or based on the results of blowing) completed the contours of the gondola according to the as yet undiscovered area rule! And aerodynamically competent contours gave a much greater effect than reducing the midship area.
    However, it is useless to explain this to authors who have negative knowledge of the subject.
    1. -1
      4 November 2019 01: 59
      For example, the forehead "pitcher" P-47 had a lower drag coefficient than the nicknamed "skinny" Bf.109.

      Awesome specialist did not notice the difference between the coefficient and the resistance value itself (which, in addition to Cx, also depends on the projection area S, the density of the medium and the square of the speed)

      Suppose air density and speed are the same, but S is different!

      If he had noticed, then he would not have cited this example with Messer and Thunderbolt, because in this case it does not make sense
      1. 0
        4 November 2019 09: 19
        I heard a ring, but don’t know where he is.
        S in this formula is not "projected area", but the so-called. "characteristic area". In particular, for the fuselage (our case), it is defined as 2/3 of the volume.
        1. -1
          4 November 2019 10: 21
          Quote: Snakebyte
          S in this formula is not "projected area", but the so-called. "characteristic area"

          You can now search for terms and try to look like a specialist
          А my comment did not violate the essence - drag depends on the properties of the medium, speed and object parameters (dimensions and dimensionless coefficient)

          You screwed up in the first comment, for some reason giving a meaningless example, apparently trying to boast of knowledge
          Your words - the "pitcher" P-47 had a lower drag coefficient than the nicknamed "skinny" Bf.109. "

          But this does not mean at all that the P-47 had low drag. The large value of S was never good in calculating the resistance
          Quote: Snakebyte
          In particular, for the fuselage (our case), it is defined as 2 / 3 volume.

          So guess how big the gondola is!

          And how much can you save by "cutting off" the lower part
          1. +2
            4 November 2019 11: 11
            Quote: Santa Fe
            And my comment didn’t violate the essence - the drag depends on the properties of the medium, speed and object parameters (dimensions and dimensionless coefficient)

            Well, yes, if with an important look to utter common truths, you can seem smart.
            Quote: Santa Fe
            You screwed up in the first comment, for some reason giving a meaningless example, apparently trying to boast of knowledge
            Your words - the "pitcher" P-47 had a lower drag coefficient than the nicknamed "skinny" Bf.109. "

            But this does not mean at all that the P-47 had low drag. The large value of S was never good in calculating the resistance

            1. The drag coefficient characterizes the aerodynamic perfection of the design.
            2. In addition to the so-called resistance at zero lifting force there is also inductive resistance, wave resistance and friction (however, at subsonic speeds it is negligible).
            Therefore, the Thunderbolt wing has much less drag than the Messer wing, despite the large absolute area. In general, the S value has much less impact on aerodynamics than it seems.
            Quote: Santa Fe
            So guess how big the gondola is!

            And how much can you save by "cutting off" the lower part

            Minuscule. Because:
            1. The volume of the gondola is negligible compared to the area of ​​the wing.
            2. The shape will become less optimal for flow around, i.e., the C coefficient will increase. For example, when the XP-40 radiator was moved under the engine (it was originally under the wing), the speed increased from 480 to 550 km / h. But the value of S has practically not changed.


            Write better about the importance of booking boat minesweepers.
    2. +2
      4 November 2019 16: 00
      The area rule is relevant in a narrow range of transonic speeds. For lightning, it’s no sideways ...
      1. 0
        5 November 2019 22: 55
        It starts to work from about 0,7-0,75M. For Lightning it is quite relevant.
        1. 0
          7 November 2019 19: 38
          Find at least one Boeing passenger airliner or an airbus made according to the area rule. That is, with the waist on the fuselage at the intersection with the center section.
    3. +2
      5 November 2019 10: 07
      Of course, you have turned down the rule of squares, but what is the bottom in aerodynamics is absolutely right.
      To draw pictures on projections is the lot of alternative dreamers. About 15 years old is a good thing.
  24. +1
    4 November 2019 00: 01
    Quote: Snakebyte
    2. All "aerodynamic deterioration" in the article is reduced to an increase in frontal projection. But this, here's a surprise, is far from the main factor of resistance. For example, the forehead "pitcher" P-47 had a lower drag coefficient than the nicknamed "thin" Bf.109.

    Did Messer's wing make a contribution?
    1. 0
      4 November 2019 05: 04
      Yes, no, everything is easier there. Cx is only a coefficient indicating that the Thunderbolt assembly was better, less gaps, licked appearance + lack of camouflage coloring on American aircraft

      But in absolute terms, due to the significantly larger area of ​​the midsection and wings (almost 2 times), the frontal resistance of Thunder was, of course, higher
      1. +1
        5 November 2019 10: 04
        It’s strange that they got it. Plusan.
        It was in Thunder that the superiority of American science (aerodynamics) and technology came to light. The gloomy Teutonic genius was not a genius. The rest also applies.
        1. 0
          7 November 2019 19: 10
          Actually, Russian science. Ripablik is Seversky and Kartshvili. Emigrants from the USSR.)))
          1. 0
            8 November 2019 15: 09
            Yeah. And television Zvorykin invented. And Russia is the birthplace of elephants. You just do not understand what it is about.
          2. 0
            8 November 2019 23: 08
            О чем? Тандер это развитие всей линейки. Истребителей Северского. Плохо, если вы неграмотный и не знаете истории авиации. Давайте по порядку: p 35, xp39, xp41, xp43. И только потом п-47. Ну и напоследок: https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%84%D1%8C%D0%B5%D0%B2-%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9,_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80_%D0%9D%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
            1. 0
              8 November 2019 23: 16
              Read about the Seversky hero of Russia flew with one leg, in the prosthesis, when it smelled of kerosene he dumped in the states,
            2. 0
              9 November 2019 14: 41
              Don't be like your neighbors from Ukraine. And then Sikorsky is a great Ukrainian designer. Seversky is ours. And Kartveli ?? He's a Georgian. Explicit. This means the great Georgian aircraft designer. If they did it while living (and for a long time) in the USA, then they are American designers. And the aircraft is built primarily on the basis of aerodynamic developments. It was not Seversky who created a wing profile that provided low drag. Surely and blew the plane somewhere else. Check out profile albums. How many TsAGI, Göttingen, and how many NACA are there. And the technology of aircraft construction in the United States was developed not only at the Republican firm. By the way, it was the Americans who invented a system of tolerances and landings for mechanical engineering and a plaza-template method for aircraft construction.
              Our laboratory assistant was a grandfather. He was a technician on the haul of aircraft from the United States. He said that from any aircraft (of the same type - this is clear), one could safely take the wing console or hatches and rearrange them to another. We have not had this and are close to the last time. And he spoke of American planes as very perfect.
              1. 0
                9 November 2019 17: 21
                So I am the very neighbor from Ukraine.) And about the Americans, I confirm, even in small things. For example, they have absolutely compatible tampaks and cardboard tubes for them. Take and rearrange. And our women walked with cotton wool, shame is a shame simply. Moreover, a real American Snickers also fits any package. Even bitten. I'm not talking about Xerox, but real American cigarettes, even when they forgot, smell like a good prima. Because they have democracy. And the constitution.
                1. 0
                  9 November 2019 17: 22
                  And American chewing gum could be chewed for two three weeks. All the same, the taste remained.
                  1. 0
                    9 November 2019 20: 07
                    Ohhhh! And what were the bubbles from her! Now they don’t do that.
              2. 0
                9 November 2019 20: 09
                Yes, and the introduction of nose racks on airplanes is also an American idea.
  25. +1
    5 November 2019 10: 01
    An amazing conclusion about the uselessness of the nose landing gear for piston aircraft. Just there she is most needed. To the problems of the rear wheel circuit, the propeller torque is added.
    The advantages of the rear wheel scheme are clear: the weight of the aircraft is less, there are no problems with the release mechanism on the front support.
  26. 0
    5 November 2019 15: 35
    The author writes:
    By all the rules of physics and geometry, the landing gear should be as far away as possible from the center of gravity of the aircraft.

    Alas, this is not true! At some point during the take-off run, the aircraft has to tear off one of the supports (front or rear - it depends on the chassis layout). The larger the shoulder of the main landing gear legs to the C.T., the greater the moment the stabilizer must create, and at takeoff its capabilities are extremely limited. Therefore, the angle of removal of the main racks is always limited.
    So the bullshit's ...
  27. 0
    7 November 2019 13: 29
    1. For starters, there is no evidence that the P-38 was designed with a tail wheel.
    2. There is no point in nodding to the German "Rama" (FW189) in this matter. This aircraft, unlike the R-38, was originally designed as a multipurpose aircraft! And its central gondola was supposed to be multi-species and at the same time interchangeable directly in combat units and in the field !! The question arises: why does Kurt Tank also need to bother with the nose wheel when it is necessary to provide the reconnaissance navigator with a very good view downward?
    3. I wonder if the author can tell you exactly what the distance between the floor of the pilot's cabin and the nose wheel in the retracted position on the very first experimental XP-38 was. Especially taking into account the fact that the bow stand on it was different and had a different design, there was no armament on it and the cockpit light was also different in design ...
    In general, another nonsense, rewritten by one amateur (Oleg Kaptsov) from another (Oleg Teslenko). It's funny that they have the same name.