Military Review

Flight from Ukraine

123

But it was already


Here's a strange thing about life: there is simply a gigantic library of Soviet (in the sense of anti-Soviet literature) of the Soviet period. Just monstrous in its volumes. With the exposure of "totalitarian regimes." And you can argue with her, but you can agree, however ... However, I have to admit that, despite all the shortcomings of the Russian Empire, it would be categorically desirable for this very “glorious era” of 1917-1953. passed us. I would very much like that.




There was famine, and civil war, and arrests, and executions. Yes, there were a lot of things. And there was a long period of fear and poverty. And, most interestingly, people from this country fled. By the way, now it is categorically difficult to understand. Understand in modern Russia where to go wherever you want, in any direction. You get used to the good quickly.

We must pay tribute to the Bolsheviks, who, having come to power in the midst of the collapse of the monarchy and the collapse of the empire (Nicholas II was not overthrown by Lenin!), Were able to save the “remnants of past luxury”, but living in the Land of Soviets with “any hair color” was normal time is categorically impossible. By the way, harsh power and harsh ideology were almost inevitable in a poor, backward country, located in a "hostile environment."

But people from the Land of Soviets tried to slip away. And by the way, yes, it turned out quite funny: on the one hand, the USSR actively positioned itself as a “beta version of a better future for all of humanity”, on the other hand, it was impossible even to leave “the country forward” before the end of the Soviet Union. Neither a stuffed animal, nor a carcass.

And this is precisely what created the most serious problems for Soviet ideologists: if you are so good and wonderful, then why are people fleeing from you? And by the way, yes, they also fled from the GDR, and they are still fleeing North Korea. And now you know what's interesting? No one in the West raised the question of what is “impossible”, that these citizens, while fleeing, violate the laws of their country ... It was clear to everyone that this was a goofy “totalitarianism” and it was necessary to fight it.

Now, by the way, it is difficult to discuss this topic already, because many in Russia simply cannot imagine a society where climbing Elbrus is much easier than crossing the Soviet-Finnish border. And even the very desire to leave "over the hill" could be regarded ... well, in general, negatively regarded by the relevant authorities.

I’m all about conveying the “aroma of the era”. And the points in the questionnaire: do you have relatives abroad? So that’s the most interesting. All this “canoe” began just in February of 17 ... if anyone did not understand. That is, the author is, as it were, a “monarchist” approximately in the sense in which German prisoners of war who collaborated with Soviet propaganda were called not “anti-fascists”, but “kashists” (they were better fed).

Somehow, you know, these phrases about the revolution and the fundamental socio-economic reorganization of society are scary. There are serious consequences. But this is so, “for the atmosphere”. You know, a strange feeling sometimes arises: the impression is that you lived alone in the USSR. In the sense that for some reason no one draws analogies between the "first-ever state of workers and peasants" (under the close scrutiny of state security) and Ukraine, which arose after February (!) Of the 2014 year.

This is strange and incomprehensible. The Soviet citizens of the Brezhnev (herbivore!) Era were fascinated by the opportunity to "go to the White House and call the US President a fool", while in the USSR any a public “anti-government” statement could lead to rather sad consequences. While the “damned tsarist power” in the 1916 year was not openly scolded only by the lazy. Both in the Duma and in the liberal press. During World War II, there was more freedom in Russia than in the peaceful 1986 year. Paradox.

And it was not only in Russia


That is, in some measure Russia of the year 1916 was even more democratic and freer than Russia of the year 2016. How much time we lost in telling “sharp” political jokes in an undertone in dark corners. So, the most interesting thing, shortly after the “revolution of dignity”, the freedom of the press in Ukraine ended. Journalists and editors were arrested, intimidated and simply beaten. Something like the rise to power of Hitler / Mussolini in Europe.

But nothing “particularly unique” in the events in Ukraine on February 2014 is visible. It was in Europe (southern and eastern) between the two world wars, it was repeatedly in Latin America. Dictatorial mode. Arising in a previously relatively free country. And by the way, not only the Argentine-Chilean-Brazilian dictators had external "sponsors". Hitler and Mussolini, they also had a place to be.

That is, just the Ukrainian "revolution of hydrology" is not unique even once. It has been repeatedly. And people fled not only from the USSR, but also from Hitler Germany and Italy Mussolini. Not always successful. From Latin American dictatorships also fled. They also fled from Ukraine after the Maidan-2. Yes, there were economic reasons, but political emigration began, and massive!

And for some reason this was not reflected in the mass consciousness. It's not that Poroshenko came to replace Yanukovych. The fact is that the regime itself has changed dramatically. For some reason, the fact that "pro-Western Ukraine" is a much poorer country than "anti-Western Russia" is well known. Although in Kiev and Minsk this fact is persistently ignored. But the fact higher freedoms for some reason, few people are interested.

No, of course, you can “fester” for a long time on the topic that, they say, “Ukraine is fighting external and internal enemies and cannot afford”. Yes, the topic is credible, even Stalin wrote "essays" on it. And before Stalin ... In revolutionary France. When "Bosko chopped on the conveyor", and the people heroically starved and fought with enemies. Internal and external.

All this was (and “struggle”, and revolution, and cutting heads), but you know, somehow you sometimes want to live in a calm, civilized European country. No excesses. Eating to the fullest, scolding power and not fearing night arrests. Never had such a desire?

Oddly enough, but Louis XVI France was much more well-fed and free country than France Robespierre. The huge Bastille prison in the center of the glorious city of Paris (symbol of absolutism!) Stood almost empty and was guarded by a small group of disabled people. In “free France” Robespierre, the prisons were crowded, and the guillotines worked without ceasing. And the workers had nothing to eat (hunger began after and as a result of the revolution, but not vice versa!), And there was a massive political emigration. Somehow it happened. It's nobody's fault. But all historians are “for revolution” and “against rotten absolutism”. I do not envy them childishly.

Would you absolutely definitely want to live in an “interesting time”? I understand when “boys run to war”, but when adults sincerely admire hunger, a mess and mass executions, it is much more difficult to understand. You would be there, dear ones, in that very “great era”.

Why run away from a fairy tale country?


Again, in the Soviet era, the comparison of the GDR and the Federal Republic of Germany was a hackneyed moment, then for some reason they forgot about it sharply. So, before 1991, both Ukraine and Russia were part of the same state (like Germany before 45). Moreover, the Ukrainian SSR lived richer than the RSFSR. And it makes sense to compare yourself! And we can make a bold conclusion that the socio-political model chosen in Moscow turned out to be better than the similar model chosen in Kiev. East Germans fled to the West. Citizens of the USSR - too. Ukrainians fled and are fleeing to Russia. Not looking for analogies?

If you have such a wonderful society, then why do people flee from it? This question can be addressed to so many countries. The former USSR and BSSR are naturally included in their number. Not many people fled from Brezhnev’s USSR, but global conclusions were drawn from this! The number of "escaped" from Ukraine to Russia is in the millions, but no one is interested. So, a trifle that does not deserve attention (people have temporary economic difficulties).

That is, oddly enough, the fact itself does not mean anything (without propaganda treatment!). Periodically, Belarusian professional propagandists tell us what a poor oligarchic regime in Russia is and what a fellow “dad”, the fact of the mass exodus of Belarusian workers in the Russian Federation is completely ignored by them. Not if everything is “so cool” for you, why do people run from you to where everything is “bad”? Why? A question that still haunted the ideologist Suslov.

By the way, this same mass migration is ignored by both the Belarusian opposition press and the Belarusians themselves (supposedly those who are smarter go to Poland, and Russia is so ... temporarily). You know, it is already tired that representatives of states "teach us life", the masses of whom flee to Russia. Annoying. Take home, to Belarus / Ukraine, millions of your migrants and migrant workers, and then criticize. Make us ride to you. As in France, but not today, burning with terrorist attacks and protests, but in the well-fed and calm 80's.

But the “economy” is just less interesting for the author in this case, although Poland cannot provide Ukrainians with anything like earning money from Siberia’s oil fields. But with regard to "freedoms" and political emigration - here, yes, here it is more interesting. As we know, comrade Shary broadcasts to Ukraine from behind a hillock. It’s simply dangerous for him to appear at home, they’ll kill him. How they killed Olesya Buzina. And again, what is interesting: no one answered for the murder of Elder, and no one called the Kiev regime fascist. Everything is fine!

Now, if Buzina was killed in Moscow, then yes, then news I didn’t leave the front pages of leading world publications. And so - everything is in order. By killing Elderberry, Kiev "European" authorities showed: "in order not to lose your head, it is better to shut your mouth." As we well know, it is precisely in Russia that opposition blogging has an emphasized internal character. That is, just in Russia it is not customary to kill people "for wrong views."

And to run over the hill to “broadcast the truth” is somehow not practiced. The modern "political émigré from Russia" is a former major official or banker who becomes a "fiery fighter against the regime" immediately after the initiation of criminal proceedings on the fact of embezzlement of budget funds or withdrawal of the bank's funds to the left.

Imperceptible freedom


I just want to understand when, finally, in Ukraine there will be a normal life, that is, without political excesses? That is, for the author, those same political freedoms are valuable in themselves, even without an economic dimension. Although just after the Maidan-2, the illegal “squeezing” of various “tasty” objects in Ukraine began. But not the point.

And it’s already clear that the fascist regime in Ukraine - at least for a long time. Paradoxically, it is perceived quite normally in Europe, and in the USA, and in Belarus. When people are arrested and killed “for wrong” political views. In general, for the presence of such views. And there is nothing surprising here. This also happened in the democratic “postversal” Poland of 20's - 30's. This was the case in Latin America after WWII and up to our time. And the West (both the United States and Western Europe) quite supported themselves "death squads." What do you want? There was a struggle against communism, but everything is allowed in the war.

The difference between Latin America and Eastern Europe is perhaps the following: in Latin America, “gringos” are hated, in Europe, Eastern Yankees are widely admired. The idea of ​​external management through the American embassy is completely rejected by the Latinos and is perceived as something quite natural in the Eastern European capitals.

And the Czechs, and Poles, and Croats, and Bulgarians consider this situation to be quite normal and natural. From their point of view, this is “freedom”, and there will never be internal protest there. But at least they gave the happy Poles money. With Ukraine, it was decided to follow a “tough Latin American scenario.” When the too “left” president is overthrown, after which censorship is introduced, mass arrests are carried out, and the most popular leaders (lawyers, priests, university teachers) simply “disappear”.

And then “new democratic elections” are held. At the same time, the country remains as poor as before the “transformations”. And elections were also held in the "classical" L. America (this is if someone starts drowning for Zelensky). And in place of one American puppet they chose another. Nothing new, “business as usual,” as they like to say.

That is, the “banana dictatorship” in Ukraine is at least a very long time. For some reason, they like to analyze the situation in Ukraine from the point of view of our bilateral relations (if they still remain), from the point of view of the economy, but not from the point of view of the very level of freedom. Or what, Zelensky will disperse the radicals, return the country to the legal channel, stop the war in the Donbass? What are you!

About how Finland and the Baltic states did not want to participate in the “greatest social experiment of the era” and left the borders of the former Ingushetia, so Donbass and Crimea “went out” of the Maidan that defeated it from Ukraine. Simply, many people want to live in a relatively normal society "here and now", and not participate in a circus show. The lawlessness of special services and social experiments are much less interesting to them than the normal boring life of a respectable burgher.

Ukraine wants to surprise everyone and prove to everyone? For God's sake! Flag in her hands. But at least from the age of 20 we have brought out both that simple truth that the execution of criminal orders is criminal, and that no one is obliged to participate in other people's social experiments against their will. And by the way, yes, the Finns at one time, too, very decisively fired from the "social experimenters", as did the Poles.
Author:
Photos used:
mtdata.ru
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  1. Mcar
    Mcar 30 October 2019 06: 51
    +12
    And this is precisely what created the most serious problems for Soviet ideologists: if you are so good and wonderful, then why are people fleeing from you?

    Also a philosophical question for me. Well, if they run from good and wonderful, then that means? This means that they themselves do not correspond to this status of being good and wonderful. Like attracts like. The converse is also true. In Russia, even such an honorary title was a geek and an outcast.

    The most disgusting libel. What kind of people are they? Instead of piling some imperishable on the tablets of eternity, they scribble vile libels ... Or is it "talent" only to poke around in garbage dumps and to throw what was found on the fan?
    1. 210ox
      210ox 30 October 2019 07: 10
      +15
      Well, different people live with us .. Here he is on a parallel branch holding a poster with the support of the dive planted for terrorism. The author of these should be. By the way, I, as a Soviet man, didn’t admire the possibility of someone over the hill to call their president a fool .. Yes, and now try calling, like .. They’ll trample to the fullest. And people are fleeing with today's Russia. But that's another story. The main thing is to pour dirt on That State ..
      1. Cut Samshitov
        Cut Samshitov 30 October 2019 07: 17
        +17
        God, what a style the author has! "Get out, googly." The pressure of intillation is immediately felt.
        1. Alexander Suvorov
          Alexander Suvorov 30 October 2019 09: 02
          +20
          Yes, the author generally burns with napalm:
          But people from the Land of Soviets tried to slip away. And by the way, yes, it turned out quite funny: on the one hand, the USSR actively positioned itself as a “beta version of a better future for all of humanity”, on the other hand, it was impossible even to leave “the country forward” before the end of the Soviet Union. Neither a stuffed animal, nor a carcass.
          In this case, the author forgets about the fate of the blame. When there was an ideological confrontation between the USSR and the West, then migrants were received there with a bang, making them symbols of the struggle against Bolshevism. And when the USSR died, then these miscarriages were no longer needed in the West. And they flooded in a friendly crowd back to Russia.
          As for my family, neither in the USSR, nor now, anyone was going to immigrate and is not going to, in spite of the fact that everyone is living quite difficult.
          1. Olezhek
            30 October 2019 09: 19
            -16
            In this case, the author forgets about the fate of the blame.


            The author went to listen to Willy Tokarev ..
            1. 210ox
              210ox 30 October 2019 12: 52
              +3
              Oleg, do not disgrace. yes
              1. Shurik70
                Shurik70 30 October 2019 23: 33
                +5
                It would be categorically desirable that this very “glorious era” of 1917-1953. passed us

                it’s already clear that the fascist regime in Ukraine - at least for a long time

                And how it is in one author that both hatred of Stalin and contempt for the current regime of Kiev coexist.
                It turns out there are such people laughing
                1. cradle
                  cradle 31 October 2019 09: 48
                  0
                  The mystery ... however belay
              2. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 1 November 2019 10: 03
                0
                Quote: 210ox
                Oleg, do not disgrace. yes

                I agree, hi hi Well, very unexpectedly. Past articles did not portend such an article
          2. Arthur 85
            Arthur 85 30 October 2019 16: 50
            +1
            "Miscarriages" is five! laughing
          3. dauria
            dauria 4 November 2019 17: 48
            +1
            neither in the USSR, nor now, anyone was going to immigrate and is not going to

            An old joke.
            1992, Jew at OVIR
            - Tell me, can I go to Israel?
            - yes, go
            -Hmm ... And in the USA?
            - you are welcome
            to France?
            - do not fool your head, here is a globe for you, choose and drive
            -Hmm..And you have no other globe?
        2. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka 30 October 2019 13: 32
          +4
          Immediately felt the pressure of intuition.

          If you are talking about the pressure that a faience friend accepts, I strongly agree!
        3. cradle
          cradle 31 October 2019 09: 47
          0
          through the letter E- if Cho laughing And then you sprayed his pressure. laughing
          1. Rey_ka
            Rey_ka 6 November 2019 11: 52
            0
            I would very much like to know in the country of developed socialism in 1991 there were more than 200 million builders of communism. The question is, where did they all go, or did they sell all their ideals for 300 varieties of half-sausages? And what do you want from such a corrupt and treacherous electorate? And you hope that it will be better? God willing will be even worse!
        4. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 1 November 2019 10: 00
          +2
          Quote: Cut Samshitov
          God, what a style the author has! "Get out, googly." The pressure of intillation is immediately felt.
          The author in the 90s was a schoolboy unfinished, probably.
      2. Chaldon48
        Chaldon48 30 October 2019 10: 42
        +2
        People do not flee from planet Earth just because there is no physical opportunity for this.
      3. Victor N
        Victor N 30 October 2019 18: 40
        +2
        Gentlemen, did anyone come across official published data on the ethnic composition of the emigration stream from the USSR-Russia? According to various accounts, there are very few Russians among emigrants, especially among men. It is very interesting!
    2. Civil
      Civil 30 October 2019 07: 24
      +3
      . Moreover, the Ukrainian SSR lived richer than the RSFSR. And it makes sense to compare yourself! And we can make a bold conclusion that the socio-political model chosen in Moscow turned out to be better than the similar model chosen in Kiev

      And if you compare with Tajikistan or Zimbabwe, then in general we do it at a time. laughing
      1. Olezhek
        30 October 2019 09: 07
        +2
        And if you compare with Tajikistan or Zimbabwe,


        Sorry, Ukraine in 91 (being still within the framework of the USSR) was richer and more developed than Russia

        something like this. Zimbabwe and what?
        1. WIKI
          WIKI 30 October 2019 11: 11
          +4
          Quote: Olezhek
          Ukraine in the 91st (while still within the framework of the USSR) was richer and more developed than Russia

          This is for you to write future articles and a correct understanding: GDP per capita PPP
          in US dollars.

          1970 Spain-7921 USSR -5569 RSFSR-6100 Italy-9508 Japan-4760
          1989 Spain-10500 USSR -9303 RSFSR-10326 Italy-15500 Japan-20000
          2007 Spain-25500 Ukraine-7832 Russia-10845 Italy-29000 Japan-36000
          1. Mestny
            Mestny 30 October 2019 13: 04
            -2
            And in the USSR they ate in 1989 what - articles from official statistics about GDP? And in the teaching staff?
            Between what was in reality and what Soviet propaganda wrote is an abyss. As if from different planets.
            1. Mcar
              Mcar 30 October 2019 14: 53
              +2
              Quote: Mestny
              And in the USSR they ate in 1989 what - articles from official statistics about GDP?

              In the USSR, by 1989, capitalism de jure was already two years old. Suddenly, huh? That's capitalism and fed what it was.
              1. Olezhek
                30 October 2019 19: 20
                -3
                In the USSR, by 1989, capitalism de jure had been like two years already. Suddenly, huh?

                Suddenly.... belay
                1. Mcar
                  Mcar 30 October 2019 23: 57
                  +3
                  Quote: Olezhek
                  In the USSR, by 1989, capitalism de jure had been like two years already. Suddenly, huh?

                  Suddenly.... belay

                  And how!

                  You, in this case, are from the majority. A very rare person will confidently name at least years, not to mention the exact date when in the USSR a) there was a change of one socio-economic formation to another - socialism to capitalism, and b) the liquidation of Soviet power as a system of Soviets took place.
            2. Rey_ka
              Rey_ka 6 November 2019 11: 54
              0
              Well, no one died of hunger!
          2. Edward Vashchenko
            Edward Vashchenko 30 October 2019 21: 46
            0
            Victor,
            And you can link to the source.
            hi
            1. WIKI
              WIKI 30 October 2019 22: 13
              +1
              https://www.proza.ru/2010/09/05/46
              1. Edward Vashchenko
                Edward Vashchenko 31 October 2019 08: 27
                0
                Thank you very much!
          3. EvilLion
            EvilLion 31 October 2019 11: 24
            0
            And now the question is where this GDP is redistributed.
      2. Chaldon48
        Chaldon48 30 October 2019 11: 06
        0
        And you don’t want to strain your imagination to the limit and imagine something of what is happening now in Ukraine, what would it look like in the days of, say, Vladimir the Saint?
    3. ratfly
      ratfly 30 October 2019 14: 22
      0
      The author was not forgiven for the USSR, there is such an audience. But in fact, everything is true. I support.
  2. 210ox
    210ox 30 October 2019 06: 52
    +9
    Oleg, during the period from! 917-53. There was anything. But! The Great Country was built. By the way, according to the camps and executions. In our large families, my wife, relatives, there was only one case of "landing" .. An ancestor worked as an accountant. screwed up and sat down for five years.
    1. Olezhek
      30 October 2019 09: 01
      0
      Oleg, during the time with! 917-53gg. Everything happened. But! A Great Country was built.


      but no one argues.
      but people fled.
      Something like that.
      One does not exclude the other
      China when building the Great Wall was the greatest empire
      but people fled from there, oddly enough
      Including the Wall was supposed to stop them ...
      1. freddyk
        freddyk 30 October 2019 09: 22
        +2
        Quote: Olezhek
        but no one argues.
        but people fled.
        Something like that.

        And now they are running, even more. Only no one makes a tragedy out of this. Uzbeks and Tajiks compensate.
        1. Olezhek
          30 October 2019 09: 23
          -5
          And now they are running, even more


          Bring numbers.
          Scare
          Toko do not say that every third is ready to leave.
          1. freddyk
            freddyk 30 October 2019 09: 30
            +6
            Quote: Olezhek
            And now they are running, even more


            Bring numbers.
            Scare
            Toko do not say that every third is ready to leave.

            Every second is ready, who is against living somewhere in Nice, only who needs them there. And who is needed has long been piled up. Only our authorities are not bothered by this; they have other, more important concerns, their own pockets, for example.
            1. Sergey1987
              Sergey1987 30 October 2019 11: 14
              +2
              Quote: freddyk
              Every second is ready, who is against living somewhere in Nice, only who needs them there. And who is needed has long been piled up.

              You do not give out your speculation for reality. Have you conducted a poll?
              Quote: freddyk
              Only our authorities are not bothered by this; they have other, more important concerns, their own pockets, for example.

              Thanks to the current government, people just don’t run like in the 90s. living standards have grown significantly.
          2. Mcar
            Mcar 30 October 2019 10: 12
            +7
            Quote: Olezhek
            Bring numbers.
            Scare
            Toko do not say that every third is ready to leave.

            Just among young people every third would like to leave. And if from all ages - every tenth.
            https://www.rbc.ru/society/02/07/2018/5b39cc759a79476a67d3b610

            You say "people fled" ... Let's leave the quality of these people outside the brackets, although each was foul. I'm talking about something else. About the quantity. So how many of these "people" were running? I couldn't find statistics. And it seems to me that he could not only because the percentage of those who fled would look something like this: 0,0000 ... 00001%.

            There is such an expression "to inflate an elephant from a fly." In this regard, the question - why do you need this?
            1. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 30 October 2019 12: 20
              0
              Who wanted - he left. Despite any difficulties. The rest is nothing more than blah blah blah.
      2. Gato
        Gato 30 October 2019 09: 28
        +3
        China when it built the Great Wall was the greatest empire
        but people fled from there, oddly enough
        Including the Wall was supposed to stop them ...

        laughing Where did you run to? To the Mongols?
        1. Olezhek
          30 October 2019 09: 30
          -9
          Are you laughing in vain?
          The wall had a dual purpose.
          In general, today this is not denied.
          And in imperial China, life was so "fun"
          that you will run to Mars
          1. Gato
            Gato 30 October 2019 09: 44
            +3
            The wall had a dual purpose.
            In general, today this is not denied.

            If you mean the days of helmsman Mao, then, apparently, yes. And from medieval China there was simply nowhere to run.
            By the way, the history of China has an interesting nuance - all emperors, coming to power, carefully destroyed all the chronicles and documents of their predecessors. And then the Hongweibins worked hard. Therefore, now the Chinese can invent any story for themselves, as far as fantasy is enough fellow
      3. 210ox
        210ox 30 October 2019 10: 19
        +6
        And I do not care about those who run. And now they are fleeing from Russia. Not the best representatives. What's this? A mass phenomenon? No. They are fleeing, for example, from North Africa, Syria ... Yes, this is massive. And do not spit in the well, Oleg. Have to get drunk.
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 30 October 2019 12: 25
          +3
          Quote: 210ox
          And I do not care about those who run. And now they are fleeing from Russia.

          I also don't care about those who run, but only because I'm not going to run anywhere. But the state should not "care" or "don't care." For him, it is more important - with what runs and who arrives ... yes
          Here, in the 90s, we didn’t spit (or puke) until half of the country was pulled apart and copied to ourselves and to foreign friends.
      4. WIKI
        WIKI 30 October 2019 11: 29
        0
        Quote: Olezhek
        but people fled from there, oddly enough
        Including the Wall was supposed to stop them ...

        For understanding. Where can I read about it? It is well known that the wall was built to protect the nomadic Hunnu tribes.
        1. Harry.km
          Harry.km 5 November 2019 16: 11
          0
          Quote: WIKI
          It is well known that the wall was built to protect the nomadic Hunnu tribes.

          Who knows this? The Wall (WALLS) was built almost 2000 years, different dynasties in different directions and from different materials. Some of the walls were then destroyed, some connected. There are 1.5 dozen of these walls in China ... Right now, new historians generally say that the wall was in the wrong direction with loopholes, they just don’t say which wall is in which place)) And that there are parallel walls, but there are which pass from north to south .. . so that there is nothing well-known!))
      5. Arthur 85
        Arthur 85 30 October 2019 16: 55
        +1
        When China built the wall, for an ordinary person (not a military man, not a merchant, not a Shaolin master) to leave the community / village, this is almost the same as death. They are not further than 100 km from the place of residence.
        Where did they run? To the north, to the Mongols?
        1. Olezhek
          30 October 2019 17: 36
          -1
          to leave from the protection of the community / village is almost the same as death. They are farther than 100 km from their place of residence.


          I strongly recommend studying the customs of China of that era.
          So there the slave trade was actively conducted. Wholesale slave ...
          The Chinese themselves, if that.
          Tough tax pressure. You can’t pay - sell yourself as a slave to your family
          It was by no means a paradise life that had a place to be ...
          Community protection ... such protection ...
          It was somewhat worse than even in the Roman Empire.
          And the people really fled from despair ...
          In fact, all this is no secret.
          1. Arthur 85
            Arthur 85 30 October 2019 17: 43
            +1
            Weakly know the history of China, extrapolated to Europe ... And yet. Familyless man was a rarity for those times. And with a bunch of children and relatives, but without money, where will he go? He will be sold into slavery at the first intersection. And if there is money, they will be stupidly taken away, feudalism however ... And a state that is not tied to land is not very interesting for the state, let it run.
            1. Olezhek
              30 October 2019 17: 59
              0
              Weakly know the history of China, extrapolated to Europe


              China - it is like that - autochthonous independent culture
              and they all have their own.


              The construction of the first wall began in the III century BC. e. during the reign of Emperor Qin Shi-huangdi (Qin dynasty), during the Warring States (475 — 221 BC) to protect the state from the raids of the nomadic people of the Hunnu. One fifth of the country's population, that is, about a million people, participated in the construction. The length of the wall is 8 thousand 851 kilometers and 800 meters. [1]

              The wall was supposed to serve as the extreme northern line of the possible expansion of the Chinese themselves, it was supposed to protect the subjects of the "Middle Empire" from the transition to a semi-nomadic way of life, from merging with the barbarians. The wall was to clearly fix the borders of Chinese civilization, to contribute to the consolidation of a single empire, just made up of a number of conquered kingdoms.


              Although ... not everything is clear with this wall.
              But the variant of "non-release" of refugees does exist.
              1. Edward Vashchenko
                Edward Vashchenko 30 October 2019 21: 49
                0
                It’s fantastic what I am in the steppe, it’s quite a disaster: lasso on the neck and slavery.
                1. Olezhek
                  31 October 2019 06: 58
                  0
                  It’s fantastic what I am in the steppe, it’s quite a disaster: lasso on the neck and slavery.


                  Your division: Russian peasants were actively exploring Siberia (it was dangerous there, but there was no "good" bosses)
                  The Spaniards and the Portuguese mastered Latin America - it was also very dangerous there, but the people just went there
                  Or do you think that something good was waiting for the migrants in the taiga / jungle?
                  1. Edward Vashchenko
                    Edward Vashchenko 31 October 2019 08: 25
                    +2
                    You are all confused: the peasants mastered Siberia, after the Cossacks fairly cleaned and thinned it, and the Bashkirs besieged Yekaterinburg in the 18th century, also with the Spaniards and Portuguese. Both those and others (Cossacks) - conquered open spaces, clearing of enemies, but did not run ...
                  2. EvilLion
                    EvilLion 31 October 2019 11: 29
                    +2
                    The Russian peasants didn’t master anything there, mastered the Cossacks with rifles that were totally superior to the local militaries, and then after them the peasant somehow didn’t go there especially, it’s bad to live in Siberia. Easier yasak with local demand. And there are no Chinese there, that's why. Tales about the fact that they filled the whole of Siberia only for those who do not understand the local conditions.
    2. cradle
      cradle 31 October 2019 09: 59
      0
      Well Duc for the affair Well love. For three spikelets did not plant, these are bikes. And for real: nakosyachil- either sat down or against the wall. Depending on the size of the joint. IVS liked to joke, but to a certain limit.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 31 October 2019 11: 31
        +1
        You understand that the cost of controlling the theft of spikelets exceeds the cost of the spikelets themselves. However, specially for you, according to the OGPU reports of those years, one guy from the collective farm field easily cuts kg of spikelets a night before 20. What is characteristic, the peasants themselves killed horse thieves without any options, and just those who go to the spikelet to cut spikelets.
  3. 113262a
    113262a 30 October 2019 07: 12
    0
    Alas, he suffered from the fate of Ukraine and others, no one is safe! If Yeltsin did not get tired and left, if the Chekists of Putin did not reign, the result would most likely be deplorable! For the Russian Federation! And Putin never found a receiver. Clear and consistent. And God forbid ...
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 30 October 2019 07: 33
      +13
      Quote: 113262
      if the KGB Putin did not reign

      If they were real Chekists, they would not allow the collapse of the USSR and the arrival of Yeltsin.
      1. 113262a
        113262a 30 October 2019 07: 48
        0
        Also, see, pressed! And pressed not only the Chekists, but also the aligarchs. The same Usmanov. And when you were sleeping, they overslept!
        1. 210ox
          210ox 30 October 2019 08: 07
          +11
          Not overslept, ordered not to rock the boat .. And as for the receiver, here's what I’ll say. Not him, Putin to choose him. This must be done by the people. However, this is not done with us ..
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 30 October 2019 09: 02
            0
            What will people choose? The people have no idea what kind of people there are.
            1. Ross xnumx
              Ross xnumx 30 October 2019 12: 28
              +1
              Quote: EvilLion
              What will people choose? The people have no idea what kind of people there are.

              But now, even here, people have completely read and remembered all the tales of local storytellers.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 30 October 2019 09: 01
      -3
      Or, I hope, it does not extend without giving the possibility of direct liquidation, as it was apparently done with Kirov, who was Stalin's best friend and, apparently, should have taken his place.
  4. Ham
    Ham 30 October 2019 07: 44
    0
    Well, where we do not...
    1. Rey_ka
      Rey_ka 6 November 2019 12: 22
      0
      perhaps because it’s good that no
  5. Avior
    Avior 30 October 2019 07: 53
    +9
    It would be interesting to read a serious analysis of the state of affairs in Ukraine. But this is not about the author’s article.
    Of particular interest is the illustration.
    On it are refugees from the LPR.
    The author modestly cut it off so as not to embarrass people with car numbers.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 30 October 2019 08: 08
      +1
      I saw these crowds .. By the way, we drove on good cars .. Not on "constipations" ..
      1. Avior
        Avior 30 October 2019 08: 25
        +3
        I suspect that anyone that was on that and went.
        Yes, and the Cossacks in Ukraine are not so much left in operation
        1. 210ox
          210ox 30 October 2019 08: 28
          +2
          This is a question of what kind of "refugees" they are .. Here, many of this foam in the Kuban were driven from the villages with dirty rags. But at first they received it well, helped as much as they could.
    2. Olezhek
      30 October 2019 08: 57
      -7
      It would be interesting to read a serious analysis of the state of affairs in Ukraine. But this is not about the author’s article.
      Of particular interest is the illustration.
      On it are refugees from the LPR.


      Come to Kiev and tell about LPR
      And what the hell is LPR?
      Where did she come from?
      Why do people flee from Ukraine in millions and regions?
      Why is Ukraine running at all?
      1. Avior
        Avior 30 October 2019 09: 21
        +8
        Well, in a serious article there would be a serious analysis, with figures, facts, and more.
        But this is not about yours. Not a single digit except dates.
        "Facts" also depress you.
        Shary, for your information, escaped from Ukraine from the same Yanukovych in 2012, as a staff member of the pro-Ukrainian resource Observer. But the article shows that you are either not aware of such subtleties, or deliberately mislead readers.
        Which, after a cut photo, is not surprising.
        hi
        1. Olezhek
          30 October 2019 19: 01
          -2
          Well, in a serious article there would be a serious analysis, with figures, facts, and more.
          But this is not about yours. Not a single digit except dates.


          And you do not admit the option that the author is not interested in a "serious analysis" of the country of Ukraine? That her future is deeply violet to him?
          That from his point of view, she simply does not deserve such an analysis?

          What does he see this beautiful country only and exclusively as a source of problems?
          As a place from which to "tear the claws"? (this is exactly the point of the article).

          Something like that.
          I was not going to prove anything with foam at the mouth directly to the residents of Ukraine.
          Somehow it's a little late. request
          1. Avior
            Avior 30 October 2019 19: 29
            0
            I admit another option. The author clearly saw that the work was unsuccessful, so he decided to pretend that it was not really necessary.
      2. 210ox
        210ox 30 October 2019 10: 32
        +3
        Because there is no life, no work. Because somewhere is better. And do not confuse the terms. "Run" and "Leave". So, in 2014, people just fled. They are leaving now. Have an opportunity. We will have this too, if people have "Schengen". And if our leaders don’t come to their senses that their people and economy are more important.
        1. Olezhek
          30 October 2019 19: 04
          -2
          And do not confuse the terms. "Run" and "Leave". So, in 2014, people just fled. They are leaving now. Have an opportunity.


          I don’t really care about terms and features

          We will have this too if people have Schengen


          In fact, even in the 90-e Ukrainian emigrants in the world was much more Russian
          (I do not consider German re-emigrants)
          1. 210ox
            210ox 30 October 2019 19: 13
            0
            I will not argue about the number of emigrants. Moreover, they, former Ukrainians, settled in certain countries. Portugal, Germany, less in Italy. To clarify, they left for work and settled there over time. Specialists from "Buhler" go to our work on business trips. One of them is Ukrainian, a native of Zaporozhye. Lives in Romania.
    3. Olezhek
      30 October 2019 19: 13
      0
      It would be interesting to read a serious analysis of the state of affairs in Ukraine.


      understand one thing - just the author is not interested in Ukraine itself.
      The conversation is not about her.
      And about how to part with it.
      1. Edik
        Edik 31 October 2019 05: 27
        +2
        Quote: Olezhek
        The conversation is not about her.

        So they’re not talking about her! They really don’t like this:
        Would you absolutely definitely want to live in an “interesting time”? I understand when “boys run to war”, but when adults sincerely admire hunger, a mess and mass executions, it is much more difficult to understand. You would be there, dear ones, in that very “great era”

        But shy to say feel And they like to impose Ukraine on us ... hi
  6. Antares
    Antares 30 October 2019 08: 29
    +1
    oh well ... dictatorship ..
    the government and the president can be covered whatever you want and live, even threaten
    we have a slightly ideological trading dictatorship but weak
    ordinary country but with nationalist troubles, war migration, development, etc.
    1. Gato
      Gato 30 October 2019 09: 33
      +1
      oh well ... dictatorship ..

      Yes .. Ukraine is more and more reminiscent of the operetta Anchuria from "Kings and Cabbage". By the way, the film of the same name is no worse than a book.
      And the reasons for the flight - 99% are purely economic in nature
    2. Arthur 85
      Arthur 85 30 October 2019 17: 05
      0
      Well, in medieval Poland, the magnates also did not put the king in authority. Remember how it ended? And Zelensky ... Well, I sincerely hate Poroshenko, but at least he was a politician. Yes, you scoundrel. Yes, the tribunal is crying over him ... But here's a comedian at the head of state - history has never known such a thing. Was the founder of the Lanister family a jester in A Song of Ice and Fire?
  7. EvilLion
    EvilLion 30 October 2019 08: 30
    +7
    to this very “glorious era” of 1917-1953. passed us. I would very much like that.


    And who is to blame for it? The Bolsheviks already got such a country, as well as the need to defend it, if the tsarist regime hadn’t slept everything, you’ll look at the very idea that no one would come to attack Russia.

    And this is precisely what created the most serious problems for Soviet ideologists: if you are so good and wonderful, then why are people fleeing from you?


    And this is, like in a fantasy about fellow travelers, where a loser, having fallen into another world, becomes a hero and not a manure cleaner like he was at home. However, in the west, the concept of freedom is such that everyone has the right to choose where to die.

    And the points in the questionnaire: do you have relatives abroad?


    Very important in the case of recruitment, and especially serious operations, what happened.

    for some reason, no one draws analogies between the "first-ever state of workers and peasants" (under the scrutiny of state security) and Ukraine, which arose after February (!) of the 2014 year.


    But they do not have these analogies, because the Bolsheviks had ideas, and the revolution was for the people, and not for replacing some thieves with others. Accordingly, the Bolsheviks, destroyed by joint efforts in the 1917th state apparatus, were restored in some form, but on the territory of the former. USSR, it simply degrades. Actually in 2014 there was a usual coup, not a revolution.

    This is strange and incomprehensible. The Soviet citizens of the Brezhnev (herbivore!) Era were delighted with the opportunity to "go to the White House and call the US President a fool," at a time when any public "anti-government" statement in the USSR could lead to rather sad consequences. While the “damned tsarist power” in the 1916 year was not openly scolded only by the lazy. Both in the Duma and in the liberal press. During World War II, there was more freedom in Russia than in the peaceful 1986 year. Paradox.


    I don’t see any paradox, to rewind from 1916 to 1886 and see how it was possible to talk about the tsar-father. And if you think that the Bolsheviks came up with the 3 year for spitting in the portrait of Stalin, they inherited it directly from the tsarist society, and it didn’t surprise anyone, there was one power and another. And there’s nothing to say badly about her. With 1985, we also said anything about the country, after 6 years it was gone. 10 Years passed before Brezhnev closed his eyes. Well, the 1916th is already the oncology of the 4th stage for the Republic of Ingushetia, when propaganda and law enforcement agencies fail even in wartime conditions.
  8. EvilLion
    EvilLion 30 October 2019 08: 40
    +8
    All this was (and “struggle”, and revolution, and cutting heads), but you know, somehow you sometimes want to live in a calm, civilized European country. No excesses. Eating to the fullest, scolding power and not fearing night arrests. Never had such a desire?


    That's just to the very possibility of humanity living this way has come a very long way.

    Oddly enough, but France Louis XVI was a much more well-fed and free country than France Robespierre. The huge Bastille prison in the center of the glorious city of Paris (symbol of absolutism!) Stood almost empty and was guarded by a small group of disabled people. In “free France” Robespierre, the prisons were crowded, and the guillotines worked without ceasing. And the workers had nothing to eat (hunger began after and as a result of the revolution, but not vice versa!), And there was a massive political emigration. Somehow it happened. It's nobody's fault. But all historians are “for revolution” and “against rotten absolutism”.


    It is rather strange to talk about the horrors of revolutions without understanding the causes of revolutions. And yes, well-fed and rich bourgeois somehow did not live very much in absolutist France, they did not really understand how it was, why they had the money, but some incomprehensible noblemen, who often already had a penny to their hearts, had power, only ancestors who conquered something in the dense 13th century. Capitalism does not need a tsar and feudal systems in general. This is an objective reality. In our country, it seems, they did not really understand it even when in 1861 the peasants were "freed" so liberated that they only got rid of the ransom payments in 1905-1907.
    1. Olezhek
      30 October 2019 10: 16
      -6
      It is rather strange to talk about the horrors of revolutions without understanding the causes of revolutions.


      Well, the consequences also do not bother to think.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 30 October 2019 12: 25
        +2
        Let's just say that without the elimination of feudalism, no universal education, etc., of things for all would simply exist. They contradict the very essence of feudal power when you are oppressed or oppressed simply because you are lucky or not lucky to be born in such and such an estate.
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 30 October 2019 12: 21
      +1
      Quote: EvilLion
      Eating to the fullest, scolding power and not fearing night arrests.

      Even if not scolding, but having to express their point of view on her manipulations with laws ...
  9. 7,62x54
    7,62x54 30 October 2019 08: 56
    +2
    Yeah, they’re not fleeing from Russia. And they are dying in Russia. So much so that the influx from the fraternal republic is not enough to cover losses.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 30 October 2019 09: 04
      -1
      No, they don’t flee from Russia, even in the 90s they didn’t particularly run away, because Russia is a home for Russians, and Uzbekistan for an Uzbek is just a territory where it’s bad to live, I’m silent about incomprehensible Ukraine.
      1. 7,62x54
        7,62x54 30 October 2019 09: 07
        0
        "... nothing terrible is happening, no fires, only one tree is burning, keep calm ..."
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 30 October 2019 09: 08
          -3
          I understand that you won’t believe the statistics, just leave the Russian Federation and don’t bother us to live well.
          1. 7,62x54
            7,62x54 30 October 2019 17: 35
            +2
            Ridiculed thanks
      2. 210ox
        210ox 30 October 2019 11: 36
        0
        And for the Uzbeks it is a house., And not a "territory" Moreover, they are sedentary, unlike their neighbors.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 30 October 2019 12: 31
          0
          The great-grandfather did not know from the Uzbek that he, it turns out, was an Uzbek. This was already said to him under the Bolsheviks. There were simply no national states there, and the inhabitants of neighboring territories were not their own for Central Asians, as for us their inhabitants of Novosibirsk or Kazan.
          1. 210ox
            210ox 30 October 2019 13: 00
            +1
            Yes, I’m not talking about the state, but the people .. By the way, the Uzbeks, as I noted above, are saddled, unlike the nomadic Kyrgyz. They seriously look after the same house territory, more economic and prosperous. This is my opinion and my observations.
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 30 October 2019 13: 04
              +3
              The adjoining territory is also for the Galician, but he will immediately exchange it for the adjoining territory in Poland, "where it is good, there is the homeland." Typically, residents of the center went to the Donbass to fight. and east. The Ukrainian SSR, because they were brought up in such a way that the state ordered, we must do it. And the Westerners in the coffin saw this state, especially since that Lvov grandfather in the joke changed several states without leaving this Jewish city.
    2. Victor N
      Victor N 30 October 2019 17: 26
      0
      And the article is about Ukraine! And the discussion aspect is interesting!
  10. EvilLion
    EvilLion 30 October 2019 08: 58
    +6
    That is, for the author, those same political freedoms are valuable in themselves, even without an economic dimension.


    This does not happen. There can be no freedoms in a poor country. A beggar is not free by definition.

    About how Finland and the Baltic states did not want to participate in the “greatest social experiment of the era” and left the borders of the former RI


    And let's remember their story.

    Finland. Received by the Russian Federation from Sweden, after which the Finns painted their own state with their army, money, customs, Russians were not allowed there. On one condition, the portraits of the Russian Autocrat should be hung everywhere. In general, the outer roof was provided by Russia, Finland itself was only fattening, moreover, even territories were transferred to it, which is why the Finnish war later happened. So it’s not very surprising that the Finns dumped right away, with gratitude they are no better than the Poles or Bulgarians, and they don’t remember how the signs in Swedish were hanging, saying "dogs and Finns are not allowed in." And it is not surprising that neither Lenin, who collected almost all of the RI, nor Stalin even tried to hang the Finns around their necks again. What the Finns are good at is that having received a lull in the Second World War, they concluded that it is stupid to trade profitably with Russia, and it is in their internal. business will not climb.

    The Baltic states. Peter I bought these lands from the Swedes in order to have access to the sea, in addition, there was always a lot of German population, educated, local peasants were not interested in anyone. As a result, in the Republic of Ingushetia, thanks to the local Germans, these were very developed territories with sales markets throughout the Republic of Ingushetia. And as soon as they left RI, they immediately received exactly the same karachun who is with them now, only the Germans are now gone, everyone was kicked out after the Second World War. Yes, for a while, it might have been more satisfying at the expense of fat, while the huge USSR was shaking with its problematic territories and socio-economic reforms, but by the end of the 1930s, when collectivization shook out and new plants gave production, the situation turned so that a Latvian from a well-known saying could only envy Russians from the USSR. And in 1940 they entered the Union very willingly.
  11. Yrec
    Yrec 30 October 2019 09: 09
    +3
    A brief conclusion from this article is known "not only to everyone" - the people have the ruler they deserve. If you want to change the world for the better, start with yourself.
    1. Squelcher
      Squelcher 30 October 2019 10: 54
      +2
      It’s an excellent idea, though most require changing the whole system, the head, the boss, the janitor, but not his beloved ones.
  12. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 30 October 2019 09: 19
    0
    About how Finland and the Baltic states did not want to participate in the “greatest social experiment of the era” and left the borders of the former Ingushetia, so Donbass and Crimea “went out” of the Maidan that defeated it from Ukraine. Simply, many people want to live in a relatively normal society "here and now", and not participate in a circus show.
    People want to live, and whoever wanted to, fled from the "banana republic" from the emerging fascism (there is no secret, and there is no need to be offended either), but they are forced to return to this regime, not realizing that people do not accept the regime. Initially, after the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine was the richest country in the former space, for several years everything went by inertia, they sucked "bad" Russia, begging for gas, oil (already fuel), minerals and, most importantly, all components for all manufactured products, from bicycles to rockets. And suddenly Russia realized it was time to stop the "fraternal" impudence, and at one point Ukraine simply settled. And as always, in such cases, there appears either a totalitarian regime or fascism covered by a national idea. Have arrived! And until the economy rises, this regime will not go away, because national fascists can only destroy, not build, just like the communist internationalists. So we have what we have for a long time.
  13. Ros 56
    Ros 56 30 October 2019 09: 24
    +3
    Gentlemen moderators, such articles should be put in the stove for kindling, and not laid out on the site.
    1. Olezhek
      30 October 2019 09: 27
      -3
      Alas ... modern newspapers will no longer go to the stove or toilet. crying
      They say digitalization ...
      I answer them - degradation ...
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 30 October 2019 09: 28
        +1
        I agree, and the complete degradation.
      2. 210ox
        210ox 30 October 2019 13: 03
        0
        Yes, they will all go ... To the trash can on the "desktop" ... With one click of the mouse ..
  14. Free wind
    Free wind 30 October 2019 09: 35
    0
    Article 16, time has passed a lot.
  15. LON
    LON 30 October 2019 10: 48
    0
    And to run over the hill to “broadcast the truth” is somehow not practiced.
    The meaning of running over the hill from Russia. People like Shariy, living in Russia, also broadcast their point of view to us via the Internet. Only those who can express only a limited truth that does not affect the main causes of accumulated problems are allowed to the central channels. Yes, and the problems themselves are not put up for discussion.
    Simply, many people want to live in a relatively normal society "here and now",
    According to the FSB for 2019 in a normal society they want to live:
    1. 210ox
      210ox 30 October 2019 13: 04
      0
      Shary not in Russia, but in Germany. Note..
  16. meandr51
    meandr51 30 October 2019 11: 07
    +1
    The impression is that he plunged into "perestroika" again. I barely washed myself ...
  17. VicktorVR
    VicktorVR 30 October 2019 11: 09
    +4
    Do not quite understand what the author wanted? To kick Lenin and Stalin once again? Compare Ukraine with dictatorships?

    And, most interestingly, people from this country fled. By the way, now it is categorically difficult to understand.

    But it was difficult for me to understand why in 1941 there were queues for military commissariats. Then I realized - because the people really felt like the master of their country. By analogy: will I protect the plant in which I work from redeyer's capture? - In no case, it’s deeply violet to me who is the boss, he only paid money. And it’s a completely different matter - a plot in the village, with a house that I built with my own hands for 10 years.

    somehow sometimes I want to live in a calm, civilized European country. No excesses. Eating to the fullest, scolding power and not fearing night arrests. Never had such a desire?

    And who's stopping you? I live and work, eat my fill, raise two children for one of my salaries, scold the authorities and am not afraid of night arrests. Not quite in Europe, of course, beyond the Urals ...
  18. Mestny
    Mestny 30 October 2019 13: 08
    -1
    Quote: 210ox
    And I do not care about those who run. And now they are fleeing from Russia.

    There is no need to run now. You can just leave.
  19. Roms
    Roms 30 October 2019 13: 39
    -1
    Quote: Olezhek
    but people fled.

    the author, obviously, calls scum, traitors to the Motherland "people" .. What to talk about ?! Creative - guano, AM.
    Even reading further is not interesting.
  20. Arthur 85
    Arthur 85 30 October 2019 16: 48
    0
    And what, someone else thinks that Nicholas was overthrown by Lenin? And is he also the illegitimate son of Alexander the 3rd? .. In short, horses, people, and thousands of volleys mixed in a heap .... experts merged into a long howl.
    In Ukraine, the banana dictatorship exists as much as it (not financially - there are ridiculous pennies, but from the internal squabbles between packs of spiders) America is holding. If the spiders get out of control, or America loses interest, or the internal squabble in America itself between the Republicans and the Democrats leads to a serious crisis, Ukraine will not last six months.
    1. Rey_ka
      Rey_ka 6 November 2019 12: 44
      0
      And you ask schoolchildren who overthrew the tsar in 1917 and not only schoolchildren but also some adults will confidently answer you that the Bolsheviks! And as for the February Revolution, as no one thinks
      1. Arthur 85
        Arthur 85 6 November 2019 15: 24
        0
        We need to make a movie. Lenin - Krupskaya: "Nadenka, we no longer need to hide! Everything will be as we want! I am more powerful than Kerensky himself! I ... I can overthrow him!" "But at what cost, Volodya ?! You're a good person, don't do this!" And a laser saber bzhzhiuu! ... No, I'm kidding. Even the generation with clip thinking will remember this way.
  21. BAI
    BAI 30 October 2019 16: 51
    +1
    I watched the Solovyov show yesterday (it happened). What amazed. Representatives of Ukraine - directors of political institutions, etc. in all seriousness they argued that the United States and Europe (and the businessmen of these countries) SHOULD be financial donors to Ukraine and at their own expense restore its economy in order to then conduct trade relations with it and make a profit. In particular, donors "must" unfold 500 billion dollars or rubles for the restoration of Donbass (I don't remember any more). The position of a dependent is simply unique, it has already reached the very top of Ukrainian society. After all, these are not marginal people.
    1. Rey_ka
      Rey_ka 6 November 2019 12: 45
      0
      so we have the same thing here we are also all sure that the Government owes everything to us!
  22. Russo Turisto
    Russo Turisto 30 October 2019 20: 43
    +1
    Everything is just like that. Slaves begin to parse commas and synthetics pronunciation, but in fact they fled from the USSR, but not in the USSR.
    And with Ukraine the same as with other republics of the former USSR. Except perhaps the Baltic states.
  23. Dali
    Dali 31 October 2019 10: 03
    +1
    And I have a question for Mr. Oleg Egorov - did you communicate with living witnesses of that (1917-1953)?

    But I talked ...
    For example, my grandfather told me that people cried when Stalin died.
    According to this question, and by whom else did the people cry in Russia?

    The time was tough then ...
    And opinions on what, the same is not one ...
    And opinions, could it be otherwise, the same is not one ...

    But one fact of the current moment of history, says a lot, just give a list of those who unambiguously or even mainly paint the Stalin era with black colors ... and everything will become clear !!!
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 31 October 2019 11: 35
      0
      Well, that’s why they cried because they brought the country out of all this fun, and by the 1950s they started to live well again and the cards in the 1948s had already been canceled.
  24. cdrt
    cdrt 1 November 2019 00: 38
    +2
    Well, the fact remains. Trying to leave the USSR was a criminal offense and fled, and sat down for it.
    It turned out funny :-)))) “a bright future for all of humanity” with an incentive in the form of an article in the Criminal Code :-)))))
  25. AleBors
    AleBors 1 November 2019 10: 10
    -1
    Fierce game. The style and pathos of the degenerate.
  26. bratchanin3
    bratchanin3 3 November 2019 14: 01
    0
    In principle, I agree with the author, but I think it is not correct to compare the states and peoples of 1916 and 2016. This is even understandable to a goat!
  27. acetophenone
    acetophenone 4 November 2019 22: 18
    0
    Do not attach the legs of a snake. (China.)
    All or almost all emigration is "sausage". People simply saw that material goods were significantly different for comparable labor costs. And they "voted with their feet" against it. And the measure of "democracy" - despite the fact that the people have never ruled anywhere - or, accordingly, dictatorships - is just a way of the ruling classes to keep the population in check. Just a remedy.