Military Review

"Ivan Papanin" and the 23550 project. Warship for peace work

78
On October 25, at the Admiralty Shipyards shipyard in St. Petersburg, a solemn ceremony was launched for launching the head patrol ship Ivan Papanin, which is being built under the new Arctic project 23550. The construction of the second ship of the same type is expected soon. Two new pennants in the foreseeable future will provide more efficient development and protection of the Arctic.



23550 Ave. Ship Image from Promotional Materials


Course of construction


All work on the 23550 project is carried out by enterprises from the United Shipbuilding Corporation. The design of a multi-purpose patrol ship was developed at the Almaz Central Design Bureau, and the construction was entrusted to the Admiralty Shipyards. A number of other enterprises are participating in the construction program as equipment suppliers.

The contract for the construction of two “Arctic” for the Ministry of Defense was signed in April 2016. According to the document, the lead ship “Ivan Papanin” should have been delivered to the customer before the end of 2019. The next “Nikolai Zubov” was planned to be put into 2018 and delivered to 2020-m Nevertheless, already during the construction, the financing plan was changed, as a result of which the deadlines shifted to the right.

Work on the design of "Ivan Papanin" began in the autumn of 2016, and on April 19 of the 2017, an official bookmark took place. 25 October 2019 g. The ship was launched into the water for subsequent completion at the wall. In the early twenties, the lead ship will go for testing. Its delivery is scheduled for 2023.

Plans for "Nikolai Zubov" are also adjusted. It was not laid in 2018 - this will happen only in 2020. The deadlines have shifted accordingly. The ship will begin service in 2024.

"Ivan Papanin" and the 23550 project. Warship for peace work


At the moment, only two ships of project 23550 for the naval contracted fleet. In the recent past, it was reported that the FSB border service could also acquire such ships, but it has not yet placed an order. Moreover, information about the interest from the border guards has not received official confirmation.

The purpose of the ships


“Ivan Papanin” and “Nikolai Zubov” belong to the class of universal patrol ships of the Arctic zone that is unique to our fleet. They are designed to work in the harsh conditions of the northern seas and therefore have a special design and special tasks. Etc. 23550 provides for the construction of a patrol ship with the functions of an icebreaker and a tugboat.

From icebreakers, new patrol ships receive a reinforced hull and other design features that ensure work in the Arctic. Ice class ship - Arc7. "Ivan Papanin" is able to overcome ice up to 1,7 m thick. Ice 1 m thick breaks through on a continuous course. The design of the ship as a whole and its individual systems is adapted to harsh northern conditions.

In terms of equipment and weapons, the 23550 Ave. combines a warship and a support vessel. There are sufficiently developed detection and lesion systems. There is also special equipment inherent to rescue ships and tugboats.


"Ivan Papanin" at the descent ceremony


A universal patrol ship should work in northern latitudes and solve a number of problems. First of all, he is a guard, because of which he must search and hit surface or air targets. Icebreaking capabilities can be used in their own interests or for escorting other vessels. For the same ship, 23550 Ave. needs towing equipment.

Design features


Ship Ave. 23550 has a full displacement of approx. 9 thousand tons with a length of 114 m and a width of 20 m. The characteristic rounded contours of the bow are provided. The tiered superstructure is offset back. In its aft there is a hangar for a helicopter. To use the last feed of the ship forms a take-off area.

The ship’s main power plant was built on the basis of four 28-9DG diesel generators of Kolomna production with 3,5 MW capacity. Concern Ruselprom supplies rowing electric motors with a capacity of 6,3 MW. The movement of the ship is provided by two such motors rotating two screws. There is also a bow thruster.
GEM provides a speed of up to 18 nodes and a maximum cruising range of approx. 10 thousand miles

The crew of the ship is 60 people. It is possible to take on board another 50 people. Stock autonomy - 70 days.

The Arctic project proposes the use of a set of various electronic systems for monitoring the situation, searching for targets and guiding weapons. Reported on the use of radar detection and guidance "Positive", navigation locator, shipborne electronic warfare system, etc.



The basic one weapons the 23550 Ave. guard is the bow 76-mm AK-176MA artillery mount. It also provides for the use of smaller-caliber barrel systems to protect against light craft. If necessary, the ship will be able to carry rocket weapons. For this, it is proposed to place a container version of the Caliber complex on it.

Aft hangar and platform provide for the basing of a Ka-27 or UAV helicopter of various types. There are volumes in the ship’s hull for transporting two speed boats of 03160 “Raptor” Ave. and one hovercraft of 23321 “Manul” Ave.

Ship Ave. 23550 has aft towing equipment. With its help, it is proposed to provide assistance to those in distress or to tow detained vessels. It is planned to install two electro-hydraulic cranes with 28 t lifting capacity for working with various loads.

Universal combat unit


Thus, in a few years, the Russian Navy, represented by the Northern Fleet, will receive the first of the promising universal ships capable of solving a wide range of combat and auxiliary tasks. Soon after, the second ship of the same type will enter service.

The implementation of the contract for two universal patrol ships, etc. 23550 will have obvious positive consequences. First of all, it should be noted that the structure of the surface forces of the Navy in the Arctic will include specialized ships adapted to work in this region. At the same time, they will be able to solve their own combat missions or perform the functions of icebreakers, ensuring the operation of other ships.



Available project data indicate the possibility of installing various additional equipment, such as containers of the Caliber complex or other equipment. Due to this, watchdogs will be able to perform various tasks, including transport and humanitarian nature. As noted at the launching ceremony of "Ivan Papanin" on the water, this is a warship designed for peaceful work.

However, there are reasons for criticism. So, the ship presented, with all its advantages, has a limited set of weapons. In the event of a collision with a serious opponent, it may be insufficient. A watchman can carry Caliber missiles, but they are not part of the standard weapons system.

To protect the Arctic part of the state border and the northern seas, only two ships of 23550 Ave. were ordered. The Northern Fleet has powerful surface forces, but it will only have a couple of universal patrol ships at its disposal. Perhaps in the future there will be a new order for patrolmen of a new type, which will strengthen the naval group.

The alarm is caused by the pace of construction. According to the 2016 agreement, the head ship Ivan Papanin was supposed to begin service this year, but so far it has only been launched. The construction of the second guard was planned to start a year ago, but now it has been moved to 2020. The reasons for such shifts are known and understandable, but the situation as a whole is worrying.

Nevertheless, the descent of the lead ship - even if it got out of the original schedule - in itself is an occasion for optimism. This event gives a start to a new stage of work, and in a few years, a fundamentally new multi-purpose ship will appear in our navy, and not the last of its kind. Having entered the service, “Ivan Papanin” and “Nikolai Zubov” will be able to demonstrate the full potential of the original concept, which, possibly, will be developed in new projects.
Author:
Photos used:
"Admiralty Shipyards" / admship.ru
78 comments
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  1. Aerodrome
    Aerodrome 29 October 2019 05: 59
    0
    about "Papanin", we can say that it has no analogues, without any sarcasm, the ship is really unique, very futoristic. look nice.
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 29 October 2019 06: 28
      +19
      analogues have been surfing for 10-20 years



      1. stalki
        stalki 29 October 2019 08: 00
        -5
        analogues have been surfing for 10-20 years
        And all with cruise missiles, right?
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 29 October 2019 08: 14
          +12
          they understand the tasks facing an icebreaking class patrol ship and do not fool around. However, the Danes hold slots for air defense, anti-aircraft defense and anti-ship missiles
          1. stalki
            stalki 29 October 2019 08: 18
            -8
            and do not fool around
            And our idichotes mean? Again, "Ivan-dukhak" climbs somewhere, ayayay is not good.
            1. tlauicol
              tlauicol 29 October 2019 08: 23
              +11
              Quote: stalki
              and do not fool around
              And our idichotes mean? Again, "Ivan-dukhak" climbs somewhere, ayayay is not good.

              why ? only fools fool around, and journalists who feed at the expense of these fools. There will be nothing superfluous
              1. stalki
                stalki 29 October 2019 08: 26
                -8
                why ? only fools fool around, and journalists who feed at the expense of these fools. There will be nothing superfluous
                Well, you wrote about nonsense, not me. Contradict yourself. The word is not a sparrow; you won’t fly out. Embarrassment however.
                1. tlauicol
                  tlauicol 29 October 2019 08: 50
                  +3
                  Where is the contradiction, indicate?
                  I called our "naval commanders" fools? well, deceivers, well, thieves wherever they went, but not fools!
                  fools are those who listen to these tales
                  1. stalki
                    stalki 29 October 2019 08: 56
                    -6
                    Where is the contradiction, indicate?
                    I called our "naval commanders" fools? well, deceivers, well, thieves wherever they went, but not fools!
                    fools are those who listen to these tales
                    I am not interested in your personal opinion about the decency or dishonesty of our leadership and executive in shipbuilding. We are talking about cruise missiles that will be on our ship, but not yet on strangers, that's all. And you called it a fool.
                    1. tlauicol
                      tlauicol 29 October 2019 09: 03
                      +4
                      Quote: stalki
                      Talk ... about cruise missiles that will be on our ship, but not yet on strangers, that's all. And you called it a fool.

                      so this is nonsense yes
                      ps minus not me request
                      1. stalki
                        stalki 29 October 2019 09: 09
                        -6
                        so this is nonsense
                        And you ask where is the contradiction? Here it is. To call foolishness that which, in fact, was already written in the article and not one, and confirmed. Accordingly, imply the nearness of our MO. And then say thieves, well, dealers, but not fools.
                      2. tlauicol
                        tlauicol 29 October 2019 09: 41
                        +3
                        I think that I write: they are thieves and deceivers. Media fools and liars. And those who believe are just fools
                      3. stalki
                        stalki 29 October 2019 09: 23
                        -4
                        ps minus not me
                        Yes, it’s harmless for me, I don’t pay attention to minuses, there is a lot of insect running around here, well, sometimes it’s minus the case, I also try so hard.
                    2. Avior
                      Avior 29 October 2019 09: 43
                      +7
                      who will be on our ship, but not on strangers yet, that's all.

                      Yes, you are a talent.
                      Both there and there is the possibility of installing slots with missiles, the missiles themselves are not in peacetime, and the Caliber’s container installations are not yet available at all, but you Avon deftly opened the question.
                      smile
                      1. stalki
                        stalki 29 October 2019 11: 04
                        +3
                        the missiles themselves are not in peacetime, and the Caliber’s container systems are not yet available at all, but you Avon deftly opened the question.
                        Oh well, I apologize for this. I sat down in a puddle, I was talking about container ones and I thought I was not aware that they weren’t released. I repent. hi so earned reproaches.
                      2. stalki
                        stalki 29 October 2019 13: 43
                        0
                        Both there and there is the possibility of installing slots with missiles, the missiles themselves are not in peacetime mode
                        Although I was not wrong, the source is not the first one and I hope not the last one that reports cruise missiles on this Icebreaker. ###### https: //comandir.com/2019/10/28/305881-ivan-papanin-rastorgnis-lyod-pred-stalyu-ledokola.html#######
                      3. Avior
                        Avior 29 October 2019 14: 44
                        +4
                        All these sources report that a container with Caliber can theoretically be mounted there. There are no regular launchers there.
          2. Serg65
            Serg65 29 October 2019 11: 08
            +5
            Quote: Tlauicol
            they understand and do not fool around.

            A light icebreaker with an 25-mm WEAPON and two Browning is truly a patrol ship, no more, no less.
        2. Meliodous
          Meliodous 29 October 2019 10: 22
          +2
          And where are cruise missiles? Container complexes are from the category of fairy tales
          1. stalki
            stalki 29 October 2019 13: 52
            +1
            And where are cruise missiles? Container complexes are from the category of fairy tales
            I threw the source above about the winged ones, but there about the caliber-nk.
        3. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 30 October 2019 09: 08
          0
          KR on them from our poverty. Not enough carriers and not enough storage for carriers ... 6 pieces will be placed on the ship ... what problem will they solve? And so, the approach is a good, versatile vessel. It does not need to be built to the teeth. Here the main control .... in the ice a lot of ships do not fall, and against ships, these ships are difficult.
      2. Winnie76
        Winnie76 29 October 2019 08: 01
        +2
        Quote: Tlauicol
        analogues have been surfing for 10-20 years

        What is the equivalent displacement?
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 29 October 2019 08: 14
          +4
          6 – 6500
          Quote: Winnie76
          Quote: Tlauicol
          analogues have been surfing for 10-20 years

          What is the equivalent displacement?
      3. Oden280
        Oden280 29 October 2019 09: 11
        +2
        The only really existing approximate analogue is the Norwegian patrol icebreaker "Svalbard" and then, compared to "Papanin", it is very dead. Everything else is wet wishlist.
      4. venik
        venik 29 October 2019 10: 40
        +11
        Quote: Tlauicol
        analogues have been surfing for 10-20 years

        =========
        Yes, my friend - already more than 70 years:
        Military icebreaker "Westwind" (WAG-281) - 1944:


        The ice-class border guard patrol ship Purga - 1957


        Icebreaker "Ivan Susanin" project 97P - 1973:


        Icebreaking border guard ship “Volga” of project 97P on guard of the coast of Kamchatka.


        And finally: The latest frontier patrol ship of the 1st rank of the icebreaking class "Polar Star" of project 22100 "Ocean" 2012:


        So, not only abroad, but also in our fleet, ice class warships have a long history.
        In this case, all of the above it was not a mobilization conversion of civilian vessels into military ones, but was built exclusively as military equipment (except project 97P, which was created as a development of civilian project 97).
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 29 October 2019 11: 40
          +3
          Quote: venik
          Icebreaker "Ivan Susanin" project 97P - 1973:

          The photo is still with weapons. Then the concept changed - and the patrol ICE was re-qualified as a base supply vessel (port icebreaker), removing all weapons.
      5. Aerodrome
        Aerodrome 29 October 2019 10: 48
        -7
        Quote: Tlauicol
        analogues have been surfing for 10-20 years

        I do not observe "calibers" at "analogs" ..
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 29 October 2019 10: 51
          +3
          So Papanin will not have them
          Quote: Aerodrome
          Quote: Tlauicol
          analogues have been surfing for 10-20 years

          I do not observe "calibers" at "analogs" ..
    2. Civil
      Civil 29 October 2019 07: 40
      +3
      They write that "Palpatine" has GAS and anti-submarine training, for some reason they do not write about this in "VO". And so a very nice ship. And considering the Northern Sea Route, it is very necessary.
      1. Avior
        Avior 29 October 2019 09: 38
        +1
        And your Palpatine’s submarine’s weapons

        Shiv Palpatine; OK. 82 to me. b. - 4 p. b. - Sith, Senator and Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Republic, and later Emperor of the Galaxy,
        laughing
        are there?
        Or just GAS for reconnaissance of ice?
        1. venik
          venik 29 October 2019 12: 55
          +5
          Quote: Avior
          Do your Palpatine have any means of defeating submarines?

          ======
          Sergei! Do you know how to read ??? lol
          It seems like it was written - the system "Caliber-NK" is provided (and there are also 91P anti-submarine missiles. Moreover, there is a Ka-27 (and it is not only in the rescue, but also in the anti-submarine version!) ... ...
          PS Sometimes it's better to be silent than "open your mouth" (especially with pathetic attempts at sarcasm!) fool
          1. Avior
            Avior 29 October 2019 17: 04
            +1
            Do you know how to read?
            There will be no Caliber NK there and was not originally planned.
            Actually, I wrote not to you, and about a typo too.
            The one to whom I wrote understood my joke about his typo adequately and with a sense of humor.
            hi
        2. Civil
          Civil 29 October 2019 14: 39
          +2
          Quote: Avior
          And your Palpatine’s submarine’s weapons

          Shiv Palpatine; OK. 82 to me. b. - 4 p. b. - Sith, Senator and Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Republic, and later Emperor of the Galaxy,
          laughing
          are there?
          Or just GAS for reconnaissance of ice?

          May the Force come with you!
    3. Skubudu
      Skubudu 29 October 2019 16: 49
      +1
      Quote: Aerodrome
      about "Papanin", we can say that it has no analogues, without any sarcasm, the ship is really unique, very futoristic. look nice.

      What is launched for the better is different from the futuristic picture, and it's not just about the color.
    4. g1v2
      g1v2 29 October 2019 17: 16
      0
      There was infa that for the FSB, too, two of these will be ordered. With features naturally. But for them it’s generally a great ship for the North.
    5. Alien From
      Alien From 30 October 2019 20: 52
      +2
      I’ll say more, our shipbuilders really pleased!
  2. tlauicol
    tlauicol 29 October 2019 06: 18
    +4
    three times stretch the deadlines - it must be able to! Well done boys negative
    1. venik
      venik 29 October 2019 13: 15
      0
      Quote: Tlauicol
      three times stretch the deadlines - it must be able to! Well done boys

      ========
      "....However, already during construction was changed financing planas a result of which the deadlines shifted to the right...... "
      And now the question immediately: A WHO to blame? Constructors? Shipyard? Government?? Taxpayers ???
      Ivan! Are you sure that you pay ALL taxes (without hiding anything!)? Are you sure that companywhere you work - pays ALL taxes (without hiding anything and none of the managers does not steal anything) ???
      So maybe, as Zhvanetsky said: "Do you need to fix something at the conservatory?" ...
      It is now fashionable to "roll a barrel" on the government and the leadership of the country (and in general it is necessary! In order not to burrow), But sometimes you also need to think about yourself: "But really Я such honest and such principled? "..... and Я really all i can do to MY и OUR Country there was no corruption and bureaucrats did not steal?
  3. YOUR
    YOUR 29 October 2019 06: 48
    0
    The main armament of the gun is a caliber of 7.62 mm. And maybe it’s possible to install Caliber family missiles. At the same time ... First of all, he is a guard, because of which he must search and hit surface or air targets. ...
    Is it a 7.62 mm cannon?
    The ship of words is not very interesting. But so much but. For those tasks that they cut a very large crew - 60 people.
    The presence on board a helicopter and three boats, as well as the possibility of being on board another 70 people suggests that the ship can be used as a landing. Able to drop off quickly enough or vice versa to remove almost a company, in almost one flight. Those. in this regard is very mobile.
    But with the weaponry it was somehow rather weak. I think after the final commissioning of the ship they will drive it in the tail and mane testing and practicing its application. And subsequent changes will be made.
    1. Avior
      Avior 29 October 2019 09: 30
      +12
      Gun 7.62

      Useful weight wink
    2. venik
      venik 29 October 2019 14: 11
      +3
      Quote: YOUR
      But with the weaponry it was somehow rather weak. I think after the final commissioning of the ship they will drive it in the tail and mane testing and practicing its application.

      =========
      Funny namesake! And here is another example of using a "purely peaceful icebreaker":

      Tests of the "mobilization option" with weapons
      1. YOUR
        YOUR 29 October 2019 14: 26
        0
        A slightly different case.
        1. venik
          venik 29 October 2019 15: 19
          +3
          Quote: YOUR
          A slightly different case.

          =======
          The case is different, but the PRINCIPLE is the same!
          1. YOUR
            YOUR 29 October 2019 15: 56
            0
            The principle is yes. But in the photo, if necessary, a civilian ship is armed, and here, initially, the battle ship will be forced to re-equip, invent something. This is wrong.
    3. venik
      venik 29 October 2019 15: 18
      0
      Quote: YOUR
      First of all, he is a guard, because of which he must search and hit surface or air targets. ...

      =======
      You are "not pgava in cognition", namesake! First of all, this is a PATROL ship, the purpose of which is to escort ships and caravans, rescue operations (in the Arctic), protect the economic zone (from poaching) and the state maritime border! Well, as well as other operations (in peaceful и military time!). Alas, this is SO !!
      1. YOUR
        YOUR 29 October 2019 15: 53
        0
        Well, actually, I quoted a phrase from an article.
    4. The Dragon
      The Dragon 2 December 2020 13: 17
      0
      Main armament: 7.62 mm cannon

      weaponry
      1 × 76,2 mm artillery mount AK-176MA;
      2 × 30 mm AK-630M;
      4 × 12,7 mm "Cord";
      MANPADS "Igla", "Verba";
      2 container launchers of the Kalibr-K missile system (4 each 3M-54, 3M-14 Caliber) or 2 container launchers (4 Uranus X-35U anti-ship missiles each).
      1. YOUR
        YOUR 2 December 2020 14: 50
        0
        The main armament is 76.2 mm cannon and AK-630M. I would not consider machine guns and MANPADS which can be put in any cabin or in the galley under the table to be considered the armament of the ship, machine guns and MANPADS.
        Container launchers are not his weapons, they can be delivered during a threatened period. So these launchers can be put on any ship in general, if only the place and displacement allow.
  4. engineer74
    engineer74 29 October 2019 07: 51
    0
    In 9000 tons of displacement, so few weapons crammed? Somehow this is not our way ... recourse
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 29 October 2019 08: 17
      +2
      He needs: a strong body, autonomy, towing equipment and a powerful crane. A gun, a patrol helicopter and a pair of boats. All !
      1. timokhin-aa
        timokhin-aa 29 October 2019 11: 13
        +5
        No, not everything. Pressure chambers for divers, all necessary equipment for diving.

        In principle, this can be pushed into the modules, but not convenient.

        I would also make a dropable GAS to work from a stop in wormwood or in open water. And the arsenal of ASP for a helicopter.
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 29 October 2019 11: 31
          0
          And the promised Azipods, which are not
          1. timokhin-aa
            timokhin-aa 29 October 2019 12: 38
            +1
            Well it was unsolvable then. But the option with diving equipment was discussed.
          2. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 29 October 2019 13: 41
            +4
            Quote: Tlauicol
            And the promised Azipods, which are not

            The budget does not stand Azipoda. That's why they cost a couple of DGs and four EDs with a drive for two screws. They also set the steering column. But practice shows that the thruster’s tunnel is regularly clogged when sailing in broken ice. And when swimming in ice fields of a thickness of half a meter or more, this taxis will not live long.
            So steamboat looks good. But everyone forgets about the human factor - who will work on it? Swimming in ice is, I must say, a whole science. Icebreakers-navigators in Rosatom on the contrary. And in this case - a warship.
            1. andrey-ivanov
              andrey-ivanov 29 October 2019 14: 54
              0
              As regards Azipods, the matter is not in the budget, but in the fact that this is exclusively foreign equipment. In addition, it will be a bummer with spare parts. In Russia, this is not done in principle.
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 29 October 2019 20: 00
                +2
                Quote: andrey-ivanov
                In the case of which there will be a bummer with spare parts

                So this is the problem of the budget - setting is not cheap, but expensive to maintain.
                1. andrey-ivanov
                  andrey-ivanov 30 October 2019 12: 28
                  0
                  Once again, the problem is not with the budget, but with the termination of the supply of spare parts and services by a foreign manufacturer. It is impossible to buy when they are not selling. I work on a ship with Azipods, and I know the hassle with maintenance, especially with regard to electronic components and software for them.
                  1. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker 30 October 2019 14: 30
                    +2
                    Good. Persuaded.
                    Do we work for Novatek?
                    1. Leopold
                      Leopold 1 November 2019 22: 32
                      +2
                      Ilyich hi You are a terribly kind person. Colt is only 11,45 mm, and you have 122 mm for conviction. I would agree to all your arguments. wink And then you will shy away with a land mine, there even the "Tigers" were demolishing the tower. good drinks
    2. venik
      venik 29 October 2019 14: 16
      +2
      Quote: engineer74
      In 9000 tons of displacement, so few weapons crammed? Somehow this is not our way ... recourse

      ========
      Dmitry! So HE is - PATROL! I think in an extreme situation, you can cram there very quickly, God knows how many weapons (it’s not for nothing that it is written that with a full-time crew of 60 people, he can take on board up to 70 more!). And this can not only be Marines, but also combat calculations of weapons systems !!
  5. Azis
    Azis 29 October 2019 08: 36
    0
    The alarm is caused by the pace of construction.
    already during the construction, the financing plan was changed, as a result of which the deadlines shifted to the right.
    The main thing is that it does not happen again ... The ship is good.
  6. Avior
    Avior 29 October 2019 09: 26
    +1
    First of all, he is a guard, because of which he must search and hit surface or air targets.

    From a slingshot will hit air targets?
    Somehow anti-aircraft systems are not provided.
    The author would think what he writes.
  7. Armata T-14
    Armata T-14 29 October 2019 09: 52
    +8
    Cool sturdy
  8. Meliodous
    Meliodous 29 October 2019 10: 25
    +2
    In short, a very strange unit. For some reason, I immediately remembered patroller 22160. The only difference is that for this, at least some tasks can be invented
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 29 October 2019 12: 39
      +3
      No, a military icebreaker is needed. Unlike 22160
      1. Meliodous
        Meliodous 29 October 2019 23: 52
        0
        If needed, this is very good. I just don’t quite understand why to fence a garden with these container complexes. Need rockets? So do uksk, otherwise it’s such a healthy ship, but it looks unarmed. Not needed? So why then these containers?
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 30 October 2019 08: 39
          +1
          The fleet has a diving complex in containers. For 22160 it’s like a cow village, but on the icebreakers it will be very useful, although, of course, it was necessary to do all this in-built, but as it is.
          Calibers there are past from the word "in general", they probably will not be, but the diving "containers" will be very relevant.
  9. Eremin AB
    Eremin AB 29 October 2019 10: 26
    +2
    All health. 9000 tons is the destroyer ?! Or I'm wrong? There are few weapons, as I understand it, most of the reserves were given for icebreaking towing and other features. So why is it not clear for other fleets a maximum of 5000 tons (((
  10. rumpeljschtizhen
    rumpeljschtizhen 29 October 2019 12: 20
    0
    I think a similar ship as a guard ... should have an anti-submarine weapon in the first place .... with such threats it will stumble in the Arctic ..... and a 76 mm gun is for self-restraint .. yeah, the calibers are not needed there
  11. Old26
    Old26 29 October 2019 15: 21
    +5
    Quote: stalki
    To call foolishness that which, in fact, was already written in the article and not one, and confirmed. Accordingly, imply the nearness of our MO. And then say thieves, well, dealers, but not fools.

    A specialized ship is being created. And if we are talking about its military purpose (that is, use as a patrol ship), then it would be necessary at least to have a more or less adequate air defense system (not the S-300 or S-400, of course, but one that could actually protect this icebreaker). Plus perhaps small-caliber rapid-fire artillery.
    Place the same "Caliber" IMHO with reality utter nonsense. 8 rockets won't make the weather. Further, who will give target designation on this station wagon? Deck helicopter? So he is not AWACS and can detect the target only visually. And what is the need to have a complex with 8PU anti-ship missiles. What will they do?
    And we, unfortunately, as something new appears, so at all levels they try to shove it into any "trough". And Caliber is no exception.

    Quote: Avior
    and Caliber gauge containers are not yet available at all

    Not just not released. For those 10 years (approximately) how these containers were dragged around at all exhibitions, not a single country was found that would buy them. Since using them on a warship does not make sense (it is easier to put standard launchers), and using them on civilian ships, if they do not carry the flag of auxiliary ships of their fleet, is fraught with accusation of piracy with all the ensuing features.
    It is not clear why these container installations are at all at Papanin. Well, I would like to - put the cells behind the gun mount and all the business. Although I understand why they are needed there. It would be better to strengthen artillery and air defense.
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 29 October 2019 20: 27
      0
      Vertical launchers are good because they can carry both air defense and shock. 8-12 cells nominally given under the BC air defense and, if necessary, you can put Caliber / Onyx. Logical than containers in the stern.
      1. samaravega
        samaravega 30 October 2019 20: 09
        -2
        I ask you to give an example, which air defense missiles of the Russian fleet can be launched from the UKSK, intended for "Caliber" and "Onyx"? Do not confuse them (UKSK) with American VPUs. Completely different designs and launch methods ("hot" for the Americans and "mortar" for us, although you can hardly understand the difference). And by what means will these air defense missiles in this project be provided with target designation and guidance? Navigation radar? Our VPU, by definition, CANNOT carry both missiles and drums. I already wrote: you don't know, not tryndi.
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 30 October 2019 20: 22
          +1
          Well, here I admit, clumsily wrote. On the Papan you need a PLACE for installing what you need. And you need at least some air defense of the middle zone. With all the attendant attributes. Between the superstructure and gun mount and not in the stern.
          1. samaravega
            samaravega 1 November 2019 19: 39
            -1
            I just wrote you a tough answer on the Shilka modernization. But here you have pleased me, you have set me up from a pure soul. + The fact that they "wrote clumsily" does not matter, it’s a gain. But your train of thought is correct.
            Quote: garri-lin
            On the Papan you need a PLACE for installing what you need. And you need at least some mid-air defense. With all the attendant attributes.

            Very correct direction! No fun, no mockery, honestly! Why would a ship on SevMorPuti need long-range KR? Yes, there is nothing! "Puzik" V.V.P. warm with dreams. But the air defense and anti-aircraft weapons are just right. Regarding the range and location - a technical question, I will not bore you with the details of the impossibility and inexpediency of placing medium-range air defense systems on this project, but the general direction of your thoughts is correct - EXPECTIVENESS. Thank you, you made me happy.
            1. garri-lin
              garri-lin 1 November 2019 20: 32
              0
              RCC is not needed. Identity gauges, in principle, are not needed, but you can scare your neighbors north. But that's why medium-range air defense does not need a ship the size of a destroyer is a mystery. And on placement. The feed that the containers want to put on is useful for another. Yes, and the Papanin helicopter is like an orphan.
    2. LiSiCyn
      LiSiCyn 30 October 2019 00: 49
      +1
      Quote: Old26
      It is not clear why these container installations are at all at Papanin.

      I went to about. Bear, unloaded one or even two containers (there are still in the holds) and left. Riding such a NATO convoy ... laughing It will work, such an option.
      Quote: Old26
      It would be better to strengthen artillery and air defense.

      Well, a couple of AK-630s will be delivered. Or, as an option "Polyment". But PLO, love it is necessary. yes
  12. Old26
    Old26 30 October 2019 11: 57
    +2
    Quote: LiSiCyn
    Quote: Old26
    It is not clear why these container installations are at all at Papanin.

    I went to about. Bear, unloaded one or even two containers (there are still in the holds) and left. Riding such a NATO convoy ... laughing

    And it is not known whether there are still containers in the holds. And these launchers themselves are not disposable and there is no need to have containers in the holds. But after unloading the containers on about. Bearish no problems for the NATO convoy, he will not deliver. In the "container system" complex, a separate container with a radar complex must be present. On "Papanin" it is not due to the fact that, most likely, the standard radars of the icebreaker can be used ...
  13. Kettle
    Kettle 30 October 2019 15: 49
    +1
    As far as I understand, it is still wrong to call pr. 23550 an "icebreaker".
    Never a sailor, but if you look at our classification of ice classes, then there are clear definitions for each of them.
    Ice1 ... Ice3 - independent swimming in the shallow rarefied ice of the non-Arctic seas (as I understand it, individual small ice floes).
    Arc4 ... Arc6 - in rarer Arctic ice (probably large, but still separate ice floes).
    Arc7 (just "Papanin") ... Arc9 - in solid ice (ice fields, drifting, but already clinging to each other) and overcoming ice barriers by raids.
    And all this is an independent voyage, i.e. "for private purposes".
    And then icebreakers come
    Icebreaker6 ... Icebreaker9 - they are already for solid ice and for "public" icebreaking work - carrying other vessels in any ice - from thin to solid.
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