Genuine armor and fake armor

74
- This is the great Van Gogh.
- What a great one, of course. But is Van Gogh?
Dialogue from the movie "How to Steal a Million"


Military museums of Europe. Finally, there was time to talk about the long-promised, namely, the definition of the authenticity of the old weapons and armor. In fact, for some reason, many people believe that ... the armor in museums in Europe is completely new, but should be rusty. And since, they say, there are no traces of rust on them, then they have been made recently. Well, say, last year. For some reason, such people completely ignore the simple fact that the armor of the knights did not fall from the sky, that they ordered the craftsmen, and they entered into commodity-money relations with them. The fulfillment of the requirements of the parties was ensured as follows: in the presence of notaries, the prescribed contracts were drawn up in detail, money was released from the treasury, and the manufactured armor, in turn, was accepted by the knight according to the inventory. Sketches of armor and patterns were drawn on them by famous artists who created entire albums of samples, which were then embodied in metal. All this has survived to the present day, though, and not all, of course, and not for every armor. But for many, that's for sure. Many armors also have the stigmas of famous masters in the past, and although the stigma itself seems to be worthless, forging the style, the “handwriting of the master”, the manufacturing technology, and finally the metal itself is very expensive and such work will not pay off absolutely.



Genuine armor and fake armor

The first picture from the popular in the 60 years American comedy film "How to Steal a Million" directed by William Wyler. Starring the inimitable Audrey Hepburn and charismatic Peter O'Toole. We see Nicole Bonnet telling her dad Charles Bonnet that fakes in marble fail!


Today, as illustrations for this article, we use frames from three films, which, probably, are best described about fakes in the field of art. And this will be our first topic. The second topic is, as always, photos of real artifacts and, for the sake of interest, we will alternate them.

However, there was a time when armor was indeed faked. It's like a fashion - in one era, paintings are faked, in another - knightly armor and items made of gold and silver.


The main helmet of the bourguignot of the Duke Alessandro Farnese (1545 — 1592), the Duke of Parma and Piacenza, approx. 1580. Manufacturer: Lucio Piccinino, Milan. Manufacturing technology: chasing on iron with polishing, burnishing, and finish with silver and gold foil and wire. (Imperial Arsenal, Vienna) The helmet belonged to the headset for the rider and horse, which did not survive. Only separate details have survived to this day. The helmet is not exposed, so in principle it is an ideal object for fake. However, well, who will undertake today to reproduce all this in the same manner?

Again, in the same Egypt, there were entire clans of people engaged in the manufacture of “warmest antiques,” but today this craft has acquired a completely different sound. But then again, there was a time immediately after the discovery of Champollion, when there was a fashion for everything Egyptian in Europe and the European public itself was pushing the Egyptians to the immoral path. It was fashionable to collect “antique”, and “antique” were faked. It was a fashion to have your own art galleries at home (it still hasn’t passed!), And paintings both steal and fake. The same goes for armor. However, discoveries in the field of science and technology made the profession of counterfeiters too dangerous and unprofitable.


But this is already a shot from the movie of our day: the detective comedy of the Polish director Julius Makhulsky “Vinci” (in the Russian box office “All-in 3”) 2004 of release. This beauty should fake a painting by Leonardo da Vinci “The Lady with an Ermine”, which is the national treasure of Poland and exhibited in the museum in Krakow



But this charming scoundrel Tsuma should decorate her


In the past, this specialist in armor, an appraiser and seller of antiquities, as well as the buyer (and first of all the buyer!) Should have known that the armor of one or another year should have corresponded to its era, especially if the item was associated with a specific historical face. Decor, inscriptions and coats of arms should not cause the slightest suspicion, and again, any era had its own style in font and drawing, and its own technique for applying them. If there were inscriptions on the armor, it is obvious that each time has its own form of expression of thoughts, and in poetry there is a certain direction. The forger cannot know everything. He is a master technologist, a blacksmith and a metalworker, and in order not to be mistaken, he needs knowledge in the field of philology or the history of culture. But ... when and where to get them, when it is desirable to forge and quickly. It’s dangerous or expensive to invite a specialist. And no one wants to share evenly!


Everything is simple with painting: scrubbed off the primer from old paintings of the 19th century, the benefit of mediocre painters has been like dirt all ages, prepared paints in oil of that time and with the necessary dyes, and look at your epidemioscope and write ... That’s what Bonnet’s dad did, and then he sold it when the paint dries completely ... ("How to Steal a Million")



And he was very glad that the great Van Gogh signed so short!


For example, you decided to fake antique plate armor, say, 1500 of the year. It should be remembered that, although they made it and were made of an iron sheet, this sheet itself was obtained not by rolling, but by crushing pieces of critical iron by a blacksmith hammer. They were forged many times, and then given it the desired shape with flat hammers. In this case, the sheet always warmed up unevenly. In some places it was hot, but somewhere only hot. Because of this, traces of a hammer should always remain on the back of the armor parts. Today, it is enough to look at such a sheet under a microscope to determine before or after rolling a metal sheet was “knocked” with a hammer. And you can do even easier: burn a piece of metal in a flame and look at its spectrum line through a special lens. This method is called spectral analysis, and it will accurately show the composition of the metal. Since there is data on the metal of armor, the authenticity of which is beyond doubt, it is enough to compare their spectra to see ... where is the old metal and where is the new. Well, the presence of radiant metals also speaks for itself. By the way, forging a sheet of iron with a thickness of 1,5 or 2-3 mm is a very laborious task, and there are many such sheets.


However, even such “scanty” tournament armor is very difficult to fake. The fact is that they are so smooth and shiny on the outside, and inside they carry a lot of marks from hammer blows


It is very difficult to make a breastplate of armor, that is, a cuirass, this is, firstly, and secondly, it is also very difficult to make a helmet, especially a helmet of the 16th century. The same morion masters of that time forged from one whole sheet. Accurate manufacture of such a helmet using old technology will minimize all profits from the sale. Therefore, morions are made of two halves, carefully weld them along the ridge, and the seam is cleaned. But it is impossible to clean it from a microscope.


Sometimes it’s easier to write a fake picture than to find a walnut board on which the original was written. I have to buy and “gut” a chest of drawers of the 15th century ... In a movie it looks beautiful and natural. But do you try to find something suitable for knightly armor in this way?


They give out a fake, or rather, they gave it to specialists of the 19th century ordinary rivets. The fact is that medieval craftsmen made them by hand, and already at that time they were made on machines. And it was worth comparing the two armors, as the difference became visible even with a simple eye.


Helmet Morion from the Army Museum in Paris. It is very beautifully minted, but it can be clearly seen that it is forged from two halves, welded along the crest empty inside



Another ceremonial bourguignot helmet and a ceremonial round shield to it. Very beautiful products, one might even say too much. And it’s quite obvious that faking them by hand, which will make it possible to get all the necessary marks and traces on the metal, will require such enormous work and skill that ... it’s easier to make ten galvanic copies of this masterpiece and sell them as copies, rather than just working on one his fake!

However, from the 1580's you can really see helmets of this type, which were made of two halves; for example, the famous lions morion, which always consist of two parts. And then blacksmithing is always very different from electric arc welding! But even if you made metal armor, you need someone who takes care of the skin and ancient velvet that trimmed the armor from the inside. Yes, and silk would also not hurt, but where can I get silk of the same 1580 of the year today? When our Russian historian V. Gorelik, for example, needed a harness to reconstruct the equipment of an eastern warrior, he went to Istanbul and bought the leather parts he needed, including a saddle. But both he and the museum, for which he did all this, knew that it was a reconstruction, and no one gave it out for true antiquity. And the skin from the new equipment smelled more than one month ... And on the skin there were no cracks or signs of use. So the reconstruction, including the museum, is one thing, but the fake of an old artifact is something completely different.


After a long adventure, Vinci’s picture returns to its place, and rich scammers remain with fakes in their hands! (“All-in 3”)

Patina appears on bronze from time to time and modern chemistry allows it to be imitated. So, rust on iron also seems to some to be a sign of antiquity, but this is not so. This is the opinion of green amateurs who do not really know that this is not proof of antiquity at all, that there are iron products that do not have a single spot of rust, which are four hundred years old or more. But rust can be created artificially by treating metal with sulfuric and hydrochloric acids. Previously, someone hung products in a chimney, someone buried them in the ground; and rust appeared on them. But at the same time, rust appears, which has a bright red color, and it is easily erased with a finger, and it is not in the recesses, but on flat and open surfaces. It is clear that something needs to be done with her. But removing it, you will not be able to change the metallographic and spectral analysis of the metal, that is, all your efforts will eventually go to dust and it’s simply impossible to sell your armor expensive. Why then fake it if it’s not very expensive? It’s easier to tell the truth that this is a remake, an exact copy of the armor from such and such a museum. In any case, this will give earnings to its manufacturer, that's just not so big.


Well, there’s no point in making such armor. They will cost more than the original! (Imperial Arsenal, Vienna)


There is another interesting way to determine a fake in the metal directly on the eye. Look for signs of wear, which in any case are obtained only in certain places. You can take the genuine part of the old armor and supplement it with the missing parts and decorations to make the whole armor more valuable. But ... the question is where to get it and how to get the appraisers to look only at it. Again, many people who faked armor in the past were ignorant. Not all of them, for example, knew that medieval engravers, drawing a drawing on an object, scratched it on it with either bone tools or wood. Iron was rarely used. It was ... not accepted. But then they forgot about it, so that late work can always be distinguished from the old one in too thin lines. And then counterfeiters do not like to mess with acids. But even when they used it, genuine etching always turned out to be deeper than fake. Fake gilding is also defined in the same way. In the past, gilding with mercury amalgam was used. Therefore, traces of mercury are retained in gold. Even after hundreds of years! In modern gilding with an electrolyte, mercury does not smell!


Surprisingly, the most acceptable for falsification today are ... children's armor. They need less metal, fewer documents have been preserved on them, that is, this is not such a rarity "that everyone is talking about." Here, for example, is one of two similar armor made around 1635-1638. for the two sons of Archduke Leopold V Sigmund Franz and Ferdinand Karl, commissioned by their mother Claudia Medici. Master: Hans Frick from Innsbruck. Materials: blued iron, leather, blue and dark cherry satin. However, there will be just a lot of work on them (Imperial Arsenal, Vienna)

Many people think that if a product is inlaid with gold or silver, then it cannot be fake. Maybe, of course, but there is one subtlety. Medieval inlaid craftsmen inserted pieces of gold into the contours of the picture, which they forged with a hammer, because of which they turned into a polygonal section and ... short. At a later time, the gold wire was choked into the drawing, so its pieces were longer. And under the magnifying glass it is clearly visible that in one case the wire segments are short, and in the other - long. It’s hard to drop objects. The easiest way is to heat the metal in hot ash, but ... ash needs a lot, it must be well heated, and this requires a lot of ... charcoal. And modern charcoal is saturated ... with radioactive elements that were absorbed by a living tree during nuclear tests. Today there is even a dendrochronological table of such tests, the time and place of which is determined by the annual rings of wood saw cuts and the percentage of certain isotopes in them. Blackening transfers some of them to the surface layer, as indicated by the same spectral analysis.


This helmet was pulled from the bottom of the sea. And what can be faked here? Layers of mineral and biological deposits? (Sea Museum, Ayia Napa, Cyprus)


Chasing for metal requires considerable work and great skill. Today, minted armor can be produced on stream, you can easily make their galvanoplastic copies and even ... print them in 3D technology. The only question is that all this is so expensive that "the sheepskin is not worth the candle." What will be manufactured can be sold as a remake, but for ... "modern price." Every Antika customer will require supporting documents, and if they are not, the results of two or three independent examinations. And at this stage everything will end!

Even today, enamel jewelry can be faked a whole problem since the old enamel is not very clean and quite dull in some places. Today, opaque white enamels are not difficult to make, but in the old ones there are tiny bubbles, which are not found in the latest ones. Even antique Japanese porcelain is easier to fake than armor. It is enough to cook the product, cover it with watering and burn it not in the gas stove, but in the wood-burning stove and at the moment when the watering starts to melt, do not knock on its walls. Tiny coals will surely fall into the molten watering and the fact that they burned the product in a wood-burning stove will not cause anyone the slightest doubt. And it is unlikely that anyone will allow to crack a piece of clay from his fragile cup in order to conduct its spectral analysis. But with metal, you can easily do this.

By the way, if the details of the armor were painted with oil paints, and this was also practiced, then those who would like to keep its traces in the recesses should remember that the old oil paint is very different from the modern one: in terms of color and composition, it resembles clean linseed oil. A thick layer of varnish with the addition of resinous substances began to be used only in the XVIII century. Of course, and this is antiquity, but not so big.


Here you will have to fake not only metal, but also shield wood, leather and paint! (Imperial Arsenal, Vienna)


In general, with the accumulation of our knowledge of the past and the widespread availability of the Internet, it becomes unprofitable to engage in fakes in all respects. Without even turning to experts, you can, for example, learn from information on the Web that art, for example, cutting precious stones is not so ancient. Although it is also known that diamond polishers in Nuremberg were mentioned in documents already in the 1385 of the year, and in the 1456, Ludwig von Berkan learned to grind diamonds with diamond powder. Nevertheless, only in the 1650's, by order of Cardinal Mazarin, were the first diamonds cut in the shape of diamonds, and wide distribution began only at the end of the 17th century. So even if someone finds a document, well, let's say that knightly armor decorated with pearls and diamonds was ordered in 1410 - and this is a true fact that a certain knight John de Fiarles gave 1410 to Burgundy gunsmiths in 1727 pounds for armor, a sword and a dagger, decorated with pearls, and even with diamonds, then in fact we can not talk about diamonds in our understanding of the word. Diamonds were not faceted; they were only turned and polished. And if you don’t know this, but try to make armor ... on the basis of this document and modern faceted diamonds, even Wikipedia will help to determine that this fake!


Hammered armor is also very difficult to fake. For example, here's a cuirass from the Army Museum in Paris


A well-known specialist in the field of weapons, in fact, even the person who laid the foundations for it is Wendelin Beheim, the keeper of the imperial arms collection in Vienna, at the end of the 19th century in his Encyclopedia of Weapons / Transl. with him. A. A. Devell et al. Ed. A. N. Kirpichnikova. SPb .: Orchestra, 1995 ”, wrote, for example, that at that time fake dagger hilt and saber trimmed with engraved jade spread in Europe. At the same time, counterfeiters were the victim of a widespread misconception that untreated pieces of jade in Europe did not go on sale. Meanwhile, this semi-precious stone, already known in antiquity and often used in the Middle Ages in the East to decorate weapons, came to Europe at the beginning of the 18th century. And to make a copy of a popular product from it was then masters quite capable. Yes, but that was then, that is, while he was writing his book. Now, various types of stone-on-stone analyzes will not leave any, even the most high-quality fake.


It is unlikely that any weapon collector would have resisted such a bourguignot helmet with hammered ornaments and a dragon instead of a pommel from the Army Museum in Paris. That's just the technology of its manufacture turns this artifact into something inconceivably expensive. And everything that is expensive should have a certificate of authenticity certified by many experts



Round hammered shield shield of the 16th century. Army Museum in Paris. Such shields had both military and ceremonial purposes. With them at the door to the chambers of kings and dukes stood a guard, and among the warriors-rondashey or were officers who showed in this way ... not only their material capabilities, but also their nobility!


When evaluating the antiquity and authenticity of any work, the product features due to the tastes of the time are primarily important. For example, I got into the hands of a wedding ring in the late XIX century. He was branded: "92ЧЗ". ChZ is pure gold, and 92 is its test. But the most amazing thing was that a white metal strip was visible on it, that is, it was ... soldered with silver! The landlord told me that he had handed it over to a pawnshop more than once and ... the appraisers there, they only had to get into this soldering, they immediately accused him of fraud, but ... having tried the metal with an acid nearby, they immediately agreed to its high price . But very surprised by his "antiquity." And the fact that it was more like copper than our modern gold. And hardly anyone today could forge such a ring for real money. And whoever could, would demand such a fee for him that it would devalue any sense of selling it.

It is equally difficult to fake an old tree, which sometimes falls into the weapons of past centuries. The fact is that an old tree is usually damaged by a carpenter. Such a tree is sought, bought and resold at high prices for just such fraudsters-forgers. But it has been noticed, and for a long time, that the dreamer never gnaws wood along the thread, but makes long transverse passages in it. So to remake one "piece of wood" in another is very difficult. You can still write a picture on an antique walnut board. But how to make a shaft of a knightly spear or a sheath for a sword from an old chest of drawers? And in which shed of which grandmother can such a fake be found?

Even more trouble remains to be taken by those who plan to carry out fake antique firearms. The fact is that in the XVI century it was possible to decorate a tree of a box and a stock with bone and mother of pearl inlays. In those distant years, this was done manually. But today you can embed a pattern on a CNC machine. But ... it will be too smooth and accurate. Meanwhile, as with manual cutting, minor defects have always occurred. Mother of pearl plates, so that the picture does not have the slightest gap, had a long and difficult to customize. Forgers of the XIX century, the arising gaps were filled with mastic of different composition "under the tree." Today you can do without it, but then you will need laborious work on artificial aging of the product itself. Nevertheless, here it is easy to make a mistake. It is enough to take the “wrong chemistry”, as it immediately leaves its traces and makes the fake object vulnerable to analysis.


Wolfgang von Polheim armor (1458 - 1512). Made around 1510. Perhaps belonged to the famous Wolfgang von Polheim, who became the Knight of the Golden Fleece in the 1501 year and held high judicial posts at the court of Emperor Maximilian I. Material: iron with etched decoration and traces of rust. No armor parts for hands (Imperial Arsenal, Vienna)


As a result, we have the following conclusion for today: the modern fake of ancient armor and weapons at a level that guarantees their sale to museums and very wealthy collectors is simply unprofitable. She will not pay off. Copying armor from museums - but as many as you like, and the more precisely this copying is done, the more expensive, naturally, these armor will be. Some fakes of the period of the XVIII - XIX centuries. it is possible that they still exist today, but the offices and apartments of wealthy citizens adorn. Today, this is its own category of "antique" and they are valuable already because they were made at the indicated time. As for well-known museums, the possibilities for examining their artifacts are so great that ... you can consider this topic in relation to their expositions closed forever! You can steal a famous painting or even knightly armor today, of course. It will be very difficult to sell them. To fake ... it will be technically very difficult and simply speaking unprofitable!


"8 Ocean's Friends." Another American comedy-crime film directed by Gary Ross about fakes and robbery. His heroines work on the most modern equipment - an installation for 3D printing. And nevertheless, their fake can only deceive the thugs-guards. The specialist discovers it immediately


That's about the same thing you can do today and a copy of any knightly armor. That's just replacing them will not be easy. After all, many of them weigh 28-30 kg, and if with horse armor, then all 50 and more!
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74 comments
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  1. +6
    30 October 2019 18: 35
    Okay, well, persuaded, already quit this lesson, although he did not start. It's easier to fake it. Oh, if not for my incurable genetic change. hands from the ass grow, it remains only to groan, looking at this beauty. Thank.
  2. +7
    30 October 2019 18: 39
    Beautiful helmet
    1. +1
      30 October 2019 21: 50
      Only a helmet?))
      1. -1
        30 October 2019 22: 48
        Well, maybe a helmet ...
    2. +2
      30 October 2019 21: 59
      Quote: Dalton
      Beautiful helmet

      Which one of?
  3. +1
    30 October 2019 18: 51

    "Bluff", 1976. Helm of the Nibellung!

    And this one is Alexander the Great! wassat
  4. +2
    30 October 2019 19: 02
    It will be very difficult to sell them. To fake ... it will be technically very difficult and simply speaking unprofitable!

    Here, then, just the opposite.
    Today, the fake antiques market has gained momentum. Amounts spinning on it are colossal. Antique does not mean excellent. Any antique dealer will tell you that antiques are a great way to increase capital. Typically, investments bring 15-20 percent per annum, but often the value of a picture, porcelain or coin doubles!
  5. 0
    30 October 2019 19: 11
    Thanks for the interesting article. Respect for the author good
  6. +2
    30 October 2019 19: 15
    Good evening to everyone! Vyacheslav Olegovich, and after all, the armor of von Polheim not only lacks parts for hands.? But also a little lower incomplete! laughing Or the idea of ​​the master?
    1. +3
      30 October 2019 19: 35
      Sergey! An interesting question ... First, in my opinion, the skirt from the stripes should be longer and yes, in the last strip there is a notch for ... But ... there are no lower parts and one can only guess. Secondly, this detail might not exist at all. Although the armor of the era when they just appeared! It is necessary to consult with specialists, which is very difficult.
      1. +3
        30 October 2019 19: 44
        And in my opinion, it’s there! There definitely should be protection.
  7. +2
    30 October 2019 19: 45
    Been to exhibitions of weapons and armor in St. Petersburg (Menshikov Palace, Hermitage),
    I noticed one interesting feature:
    The more vegetables stuck on iron, the closer it is to Italy, and ...
    and the simpler and more elegant the pattern on armor or weapons, the closer it is to Germany ...
    1. +1
      30 October 2019 21: 00
      Been to exhibitions of weapons and armor in St. Petersburg (Menshikov Palace, Hermitage),
      I noticed one interesting feature:
      The more vegetables stuck on iron, the closer it is to Italy, and ...
      and the simpler and more elegant the pattern on armor or weapons, the closer it is to Germany ...
      The farther south the more colorful, the north the stricter. Geographically dependent mentality of one or another ethnic group. Here is the pattern.
      1. 0
        30 October 2019 21: 05
        "The farther south, the more colorful, the farther north, the stricter"
        I completely agree, but ...
        Their language doesn’t turn to be colorful, rather rather lurid ...
        but the German ones, but fascinate with their laconicism and completeness! ...
        1. -1
          30 October 2019 21: 06
          I completely agree, but ...
          Calling them colorful doesn’t turn
          I agree, multi-fanciful hurt.
  8. +6
    30 October 2019 19: 53
    It turned out interestingly, Vyacheslav Olegovich. Send it to read Fomenko. laughing
    However, the topic of armor fakes is, as it were, not in trend. Well, if you wrote about the falsification of chronicles, documents, etc., then they, who are still alive and look in here, would surely break through. laughing
    But so good. good
    1. +4
      30 October 2019 21: 14
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      Send it to read Fomenko.
      However, the topic of armor fakes is, as it were, not in trend.

      This is small for Fomenko / Nosovsky. They have the whole Novgorod the Great (all layers) forged and buried in the right place and at the right depth. laughing
  9. +1
    30 October 2019 20: 21
    When the daughter got married, the engagement ring was taken from the great-grandmother's box, where the mix was gold and jewelry.
    Modern jewelers found it difficult to determine whether gold or not, and the stigma and color. The ring turned out to be royal gold.
    56th test, if not mistaken.
    I’ll remove the stigma on occasion.
    1. +3
      30 October 2019 21: 36
      It was the same with me ... a family engagement ring of such a high standard that jewelers could not determine it on our scale. So armor was covered like this and where to get it so much?
      1. +3
        30 October 2019 22: 19
        Quote: kalibr
        a family engagement ring of such a high standard that jewelers could not determine it on our scale.

        The pictures were mentioned in vain. There is an example in history when Van Megeren was tried for the sale of a national treasure. Until he exploded at the trial: "Fools, I painted these pictures myself!" For a long time, this addict then proved that the paintings of the 17th century were his daub. I had to draw one more.
        1. +2
          31 October 2019 00: 19
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          In vain the paintings were mentioned.

          Not put it that way. I want to say that I am absolutely convinced that in any large museum there will be a bunch of counterfeits, only no one will conduct an examination. The reputation will suffer. If the same Van Megeren had not sniffed his picture of allegedly Vermeer of Delft "Christ and the Judges" to Goering, in whose collection the Americans found it, they would have considered these paintings to be originals.
        2. +1
          31 October 2019 07: 50
          This is exactly what the movie "How to Steal a Million"
      2. +12
        30 October 2019 23: 04
        The ring turned out to be royal gold.
        56th test, if not mistaken.
        I’ll remove the stigma on occasion.


        "Tsarskoe Zoloto" is no different from the modern one, except for the measurement system.
        Noble metal sample - determination by various analytical methods of the proportion, weight content of the base noble metal (gold, silver, platinum, palladium, etc.) in the alloy being tested.
        Until 1927, a spool test was used, built on the basis of the Russian pound containing 96 spools. The spool test in the designation corresponds to the number of spools of the precious metal in 96 spools (1 pound) of the alloy being tested.
        Therefore, the 56th test means that in the 96 spools of the jewelry alloy there are 56 gold spools, i.e. the proportion of gold is 0,583.
        Since 1927, the metric system of samples has been operating - the number of milligrams of the base noble metal in 1 gram (the percentage of pure metal in the alloy when a comma is added after the second digit) of the alloy being tested.
        Thus, the 56th test of "royal gold" corresponds to 583 modern, although 585 is more commonly used.
        a family engagement ring of such a high standard that jewelers could not determine it on our scale. So armor was covered like this and where to get it so much?
        There are no problems with the determination of the sample if you have an electronic tester such as "AuRACLE Gold & Platinum Tester AGT-1", which is not in any normal laboratory.
        The highest fineness - 96 tsarist or 999 "Soviet" or 24 carats American, is practically not used for jewelry, since gold is very soft and such an ornament, especially a ring, is deformed right on the finger. Therefore, the 56/585 sample is considered optimal even today under the kings. Very rare 92/958.
        1. 0
          31 October 2019 12: 01
          Well, this is our optimal 585, and everyone who has been to the Arab countries do not forget to mention that their gold is yellower than ours, with a higher breakdown.
          1. +2
            31 October 2019 12: 35
            The fact that gold is "yellower" does not mean that it has a higher purity. The yellow alloy has two compositions. The first - 75% gold, 17% silver and 8% copper, respectively - 750 standard.
            The second - 58,5% gold, 18,75 silver and 22,75 copper - 585 fineness. And they are almost the same in color.

            Left 585, right 750.
            Color is not an indicator at all. The same test gold 585 can be red, pink, green and white. It all depends on the supplements.
            1. -2
              31 October 2019 17: 10
              I advise you to understand the essence of the question. And do not write nonsense. By the way, there is also "black gold" - oil is called.
              1. +1
                31 October 2019 17: 13
                You will determine your own place, or tell you?
      3. -2
        31 October 2019 17: 01
        And where did your "last name" shine? Was it not in the Jewish ghettos of Uman or Berdichev?
  10. +2
    30 October 2019 20: 54
    I once remembered a picture from "The Matchmaking of a Hussar" - and, please, a set of possible fakes.

    And not all Black Squares.

    How conventional are these "upper prices". A little for the functionality - the rest for the legend.

    "For sale: buy what I own.
    I will give a ladder to heaven cheaply "(c).
  11. +3
    30 October 2019 21: 09
    I was always amazed at the amazing beauty of ceremonial armor! In battle, the enemy simply had to stop, mouth agape, and lower his sword, so as not to spoil such beauty! laughing

    Dear Vyacheslav Olegovich, many thanks for such magnificent illustrations, this in itself is a masterpiece. I was in the Dresden Gallery and the Vienna Armory, but I didn’t get such pictures ...

    Although I don’t know about the cost of fakes, it seems to me that with modern technologies, the availability of metals, materials, the comparative cheapness of silver and gold, it’s still easier to manufacture and if you then sell such beauty for several hundred thousand euros, then the master will not be left out !
    1. +5
      30 October 2019 21: 41
      I know about a topic that is close to me, in the 70s of the 20th century, many tried to fake silver Sasanian plates in Iran: simply and quickly, like coins are found in all shahinshahs, so copy, the release of Sasanid silver onto the market at first didn’t surprise anyone, but then it was proved that hats in toreutics and coins among the Shahinshahs vary. So, you can still find on the internet an image of some fakes. but also fakes become antik laughing laughing
    2. +3
      30 October 2019 21: 52
      Quote: Mikhail Matyugin
      In battle, the enemy simply had to stop, mouth agape, and lower his sword, so as not to spoil such beauty!

      Feverishly pondering in your mind how much it will be possible to bail out for "beauty" and how much will the relatives dump for the boy, inside her, if he can be captured? And what is the best way to sell them - separately or as a set? laughing
    3. +3
      30 October 2019 22: 36
      This is Isaac from York worried about the safety of the armor.

      But he had a lot of this armor. This is always the case: "To Caesar - what is Caesar's."
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. +4
    30 October 2019 21: 29
    bourguignot helmet with hammered ornaments and a dragon instead of a pommel from the Army Museum in Paris
    ,, that's interesting recourse one or several people made this helmet and how long did it take to make?
    1. +2
      30 October 2019 23: 12
      Quote: bubalik
      , it’s interesting that one or several people made this helmet and how long did it take to manufacture?

      As I know a little the production process in the Italian arms workshops of the 15 century - even relatively ordinary armor was already made according to the type of manufacture, in the flow, several people, or even dozens of people (thanks to this process, if not the conveyor, then at least the separation of tasks, so abruptly labor productivity has increased and the production of armor, which was previously done by one master for months, or even years), has increased.

      And such masterpieces as a ceremonial bourguignot with such a shield - I think a whole team of specialists did. The grandmaster probably only followed the general level of quality and personally brought the finishing touches.
      1. +4
        31 October 2019 06: 33
        Mikhail Matyugin
        Yesterday, 00: 12
        ,,,thank Yes
  14. +4
    30 October 2019 21: 31
    Bravo Vyacheslav Olegovich,
    I love movies about antiques, but such stories about weapons even more.
  15. +5
    30 October 2019 21: 33
    Quote: Mikhail Matyugin
    comparative cheapness of silver and gold

    Dear Michael! Cheap gold from India, cheap silver from Mexico. And in them characteristic impurities. Obtaining gold and silver TOGO composition is a difficult task. It is necessary to take into account how much will go into the cinder, but most importantly ... radiation metals that pollute alloys. % of them in the alloys of that time and modern is known, there are tables. So the first spectral analysis will show ....
    1. +1
      30 October 2019 22: 47
      Quote: kalibr
      but most importantly ... radiation metals that pollute alloys. % of them in the alloys of that time and modern is known, there are tables. So the first spectral analysis will show ....

      I didn’t think about this, but anyway, it seems to me that if you don’t really cut the price, then the client may not be dragged away for spectral analysis, and you can still sell new-made armor of such quality with good profit. The question is, where else can you find masters who could do SO - after all, every piece of armor here is a masterpiece of art in itself!
    2. +6
      30 October 2019 23: 38
      A few clarifications.
      radiant metals - what kind of metals are those unknown to science.
      Obtaining gold and silver TOGO composition is a difficult task.
      There is no difficult task in obtaining "that" gold if you have the appropriate knowledge, which is by no means a secret with seven seals.
      But the technical examination of gold products is really a rather complicated issue. And if the falsifiers are professionals, then the issue of identifying fakes by composition is very complicated.
      More recently, a method based on the property of gold to bind alpha particles (helium), produced by the radioactive decay of uranium and thorium, usually present in gold in an amount of about 1 ppm, has recently appeared. Independent measurements of the concentration of helium and uranium / thorium in gold, taking into account the time of the corresponding half-lives, make it possible to determine the age of the product, more precisely, the time elapsed since the last strong heating of this metal, since helium leaves the metal at temperatures close to the melting point.
      That is, scientists are trying to create something like a "helium clock" for dating archaeological gold, since the accumulation of helium in the metal begins from the moment of manufacture (the last strong heating) of the object. In view of the novelty of the method, it is too early to speak about its effectiveness.
      1. +1
        31 October 2019 17: 13
        Yes. RADIATING METALS is something. !!!! Perfectly characterizes the level of education Shpakovsky.
      2. 0
        21 February 2020 16: 13
        Anything can be faked. Even experts. Vaughn, the USSR, carefully nurtured "experts" in Western departments, in order to then poke the people, they say: "Even the great scientist Basil Pupkinsen agrees with our policy." And how many rich scum in the world - ooh! They can forge not even for profit, but just for fun. And then for half a century the people will be brainwashed that this armor was worn by Nero himself. And they will find a marble stele and witnesses, and they blind the parchment. And independent experts will be dynamited through dummy laboratory gaskets, they say, all research only through the laboratory. Basil Pupkens.
        1. 0
          21 February 2020 17: 11
          You can fake everything.
          Intelligence cannot be faked. For no money. Or he is, or he is not.
          1. +2
            21 February 2020 17: 21
            Quote: Undecim
            Intelligence cannot be faked. For no money. Or he is, or he is not.

            In a certain sense, even a spider possesses intelligence. And therefore it does not need to be faked)

            You are probably talking about "high intelligence". Here is another question - who will decide whether it is high, and is it high enough? What is measured, how much to hang in grams. Etc.
            1. 0
              21 February 2020 17: 41
              You are probably talking about "high intelligence".
              I am about human intelligence.
              In a certain sense, even a spider possesses intelligence.
              Cognitive ethology and Nadezhda Nikolaevna interpret this question somewhat differently.
              1. +2
                21 February 2020 17: 51
                Quote: Undecim
                You are probably talking about "high intelligence".
                I'm about human intelligence

                Does the concept of "intelligence level" exist, or not? If yes, then your "either is or not" is incorrect.
                1. 0
                  21 February 2020 18: 02
                  My "either is or not" does not play any role in the definition of intelligence. Here people, from Thomas Aquinas to Wissner-Gross, have worked hard to dot the i.
                  The level of human intelligence, this is a completely separate issue, does not apply to our discussion, since human intelligence and animal intelligence are completely different things.
                  1. +2
                    21 February 2020 18: 06
                    Quote: Undecim
                    The level of human intelligence, this is a completely separate issue, does not apply to our discussion

                    I do not agree.

                    Quote: Undecim
                    Intelligence cannot be faked. Or he is, or he is not

                    This is a black and white model. I have a different model, implying the existence of a certain gradation of this property of the human personality. I'm still talking about intelligence. I will repeat the question once again: does the concept of "level of intelligence" have a right to exist, or not? What do you think?
                    1. 0
                      21 February 2020 18: 43
                      It has a right to exist, but "either is or not" does not affect mine in any way, since if we discuss the level of something, then this "something" is implied.
                      Therefore, speaking of the level of intelligence, we automatically mean its presence. That which is not can not have a level.
                      1. +2
                        21 February 2020 19: 05
                        Quote: Undecim
                        does not affect my "either is or not"

                        I understand you. This is scholasticism. Thank you for the informative conversation. laughing
                      2. 0
                        21 February 2020 20: 45
                        To health. And all the best to you.
  16. +4
    30 October 2019 21: 44
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    Now, if you wrote about the falsification of chronicles, documents

    Here I am not a very big specialist ... But ... yesterday I was in the archive of OFOPO GAPO. This is the former OK CPSU archive. Five floors without elevator. Crammed with paper cabinets. Yellow, all sorts of ... which is just not there. Starting from documents on the organization of rallies condemning the enemies of the people in the 37th with a report of how many workers from which plant participated, how many spoke and who said what, up to the personal affairs of 1963 of the year on the expulsion from the ranks of the CPSU of communist husbands and the artificial insemination of sows. Question: what is there to fake and why? What is the fake trend, so to speak? How to find out what documents will be needed through 10,20, 50 years? Therefore, it makes no sense. It’s very expensive and, most importantly, dangerous because of the presence of cross-references in other archives and copies of the entire Penza archive in the central archives, which is still a mess. Yet copied and stored by us and in Moscow! Not enough, no strength, no money, no mind, no imagination to rewrite all these five floors! And two or three pieces of paper will not do the weather. Homosexuals there ... hundreds!
    1. +4
      30 October 2019 21: 58
      What a blow to the staples)) hi
      1. +2
        31 October 2019 07: 39
        Yeah! Moreover, I work in the archive not one !!! Another YOUNG MAN, collecting material for a book on the Civil War, which he wants to publish for YOUR MONEY! That’s what it came to. I spoke to him ... how ... I told him - yes, I need to earn money. He told me - people should know the truth, I’m getting to the bottom of ... both on the other side and the other. Everything will be according to the documents. An unthinkable situation in recent times.
    2. -1
      31 October 2019 17: 17
      I would not allow such "Palestinian Cossacks" like you to be a mile away from the archives of the CPSU and the USSR.
  17. +11
    30 October 2019 21: 57
    Quote: Mikhail Matyugin
    I was in the Dresden Gallery and the Vienna Armory, but I didn’t get such pictures ...

    Now I have contacted the press center of the Metropolitan Museum, where the exhibition of ARMORs of MAXIMILIAN I is taking place. I received from them a photo from the exhibition of museum quality and permission to use them. Essentially the same armor that I shot, but with excellent quality. I have already written the first article - wait. The second is written. I look and rejoice myself. Every rivet is visible! I want to send their letter and photo to our Armory ... to show how people are treated "there". Since for similar photos from our ward they asked me for more than 2200 rubles. a piece. Well, at least 200 ... It is clear that shame is not urine, it does not eat eyes, but still. Let them know!
  18. +3
    30 October 2019 23: 40
    The beauty! Interesting article
  19. -1
    31 October 2019 04: 15
    Vyacheslav, your articles on medieval armor do not cease to please, but do you have any plans to lay out a couple of similar antique armor?
    Three years ago, the whole family went to an exhibition of artifacts from Pompeii and Herculaneum. The condition of the ironing armor (marmillon helmet and greaves) made a strong impression. The condition of the helmet was no worse than that of perfectly preserved medieval helmets from your photographs.
    Not too lazy to check with the administration, are they genuine? They confirmed that everything is real.
    1. +2
      31 October 2019 09: 45
      Vyacheslav, your articles on medieval armor do not cease to please, but do you have any plans to lay out a couple of similar antique armor?

      a couple of years ago there was a cycle on "anatomical cuirasses". I remember exactly. He also wrote on Mycenaean armor. hi
    2. -2
      21 February 2020 16: 06
      The jewelry salon is also in a hurry to assure that blue cubic zirconias are real topazes. And how much howlite under the guise of turquoise was sold - not to count.
  20. +3
    31 October 2019 05: 51

    Portrait of Whistler's mother. Reconstruction.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav - I read it in one breath, and the bourgeois photos are simply stunned good What is not a product is a masterpiece!
  21. +1
    31 October 2019 07: 34
    Quote: Comrade
    They confirmed that everything is real.

    So they are bronze! And bronze is very well preserved, even better than pure copper!
    Now about your question. There are two options: the first to go there yourself and take pictures, read the necessary books and write. But this is unlikely to succeed in the next five years. The second is to contact the administration and ask ... But then 50% on 50 ... Italy is not Austria and not the USA ...
  22. +1
    31 October 2019 07: 44
    Quote: Mikhail Matyugin
    and you can still sell with good profit and make-up armor of this quality.

    Now it has become a business. A COPY OF THAT is indicated ... and these copies are also exhibited in museums, but indicating - A COPY! And they are expensive!
  23. +1
    31 October 2019 07: 45
    Quote: bubalik
    one or several people made this helmet and how long did it take to make?

    I know for sure that a few. But I don’t know how much. Now we are looking for this ...
  24. +1
    31 October 2019 07: 48
    Quote: Undecim
    No problems with the determination of the sample with an electronic tester such as "AuRACLE Gold & Platinum Tester AGT-1", which is in any normal laboratory

    It was during the Soviet era in 1974. There were no testers. The ring was smeared with some kind of acid and looked through a magnifying glass. That's the whole "laboratory".
    1. +5
      31 October 2019 08: 30
      This is called assaying using assay reagents. Very accurate method, just fuss more. It is applied today.
      To test alloys of gold 375, 500, 583, 585, 750 samples, respectively, acid reagents 375,500,583 / 585, 750 are used - solutions of hydrochloric and nitric acids of various concentrations.
      Chlorine gold is also used - for testing gold alloys up to 600 samples, a solution of potassium iodide - for testing gold alloys from 800 samples.
      1. +2
        31 October 2019 10: 28
        You see, what interesting things you know!
        1. 0
          31 October 2019 14: 14
          You see, what interesting things you know!

          Victor Nikolaevich, I think, knows such subtleties of metals "perfectly well" - a profession, sir! good And if he doesn’t know, he will find ... However, respect for Viktor Nikolayevich drinks
          1. +3
            31 October 2019 14: 55
            A relative of my fellow student was a famous Ekatirinoslavsky jeweler. His home kept a similar set of reagents, only in the corresponding mid-XNUMXth century wooden box and made in Germany. We all joked that Leve was left with more than just a box of reagents and offered surrender. His dad really didn’t like our jokes.
            1. +1
              31 October 2019 16: 13
              We all joked that Leve was left with more than just a box of reagents and offered surrender. His dad really didn’t like our jokes.

              as if a joke was told with a serious face laughing good five points! drinks
  25. +1
    31 October 2019 10: 31
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    a couple of years ago there was a cycle on "anatomical cuirasses". I remember exactly. He also wrote on Mycenaean armor.

    Yes, sir, it was all ... but you must admit that it takes a long time to look. Then most normal people forget things uncharacteristic of their specialization after 90 days by 90%. And through 180? So something can and should be repeated, but at a slightly new information level.
  26. 0
    31 October 2019 10: 37
    Quote: Mikhail Matyugin
    even relatively ordinary armor was already made according to the type of manufacture, in a flow, several people, or even dozens of people (it was thanks to this process, if not the conveyor belt, then at least the separation of tasks, labor productivity so sharply increased and the output of armor that was previously made by one master increased months, or even years).

    Exactly! There are even instructions - who was the chaser, who engraved, who drew a sketch, who covered with gold! But not always in museums this information is laid out. There is no single standard for signing an exhibit. For example, product dimensions are indicated, but not weight. Weights and sizes and full name are indicated. masters and their hometown and year, but not always ... And not in all museums. For example, in Vienna this is not practiced!
  27. 0
    31 October 2019 12: 47
    Quote: Terenin
    Any antique dealer will tell you that antiques are a great way to increase capital.

    Tell traders of Soviet faleristics - they will tell you a lot about price changes over the past 4 years.
  28. -2
    21 February 2020 16: 00
    It is a pity that the article does not deal with the possibility of forgery, not a thing, but history. After all, if government agencies need material for their ideological obscenities, the local businessmen will make anything and in any complexity, and in total conspiracy. Relatively recently, it was only rumored that the marble Laocoon was not the handiwork of the ancient Greeks, but Michelangelo, who could have turned out to be that still a rascal who splashed "antique finds" left and right. He hastily and burned his archive before his death, as if he wanted to hide something. So here - the magnificent armor to them. So-and-so. So-and-so could be made by order of the ruling elite. It’s not out of pocket to pay them. It is not for nothing that historians have been nicknamed "large caliber gossips."

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