U.S. Army moves to M17 pistol

98
The U.S. Army is gradually moving to the new M17 modular pistol, which will become the main short-barrel weapons for all units of the armed forces. The army pistol, developed as part of the Modular Handgun System program, is the first step towards a general modernization of the small arms of the American army, which will continue in the coming years. On October 20, 2019, the Defense Blog announced that the weapon was being commissioned. In particular, the new 1st guns are received by military personnel tank division.





The first to receive new weapons (at the end of the 2017 year) were the fighters of the famous American 101 Airborne Division. According to previously published information, the U.S. military expects to purchase up to 421 thousands of M17 and M18 pistols (compact version): 195 thousand for the army, 130 thousand for the Air Force, 61 thousand for the Navy (all M18), and 35 thousand for the Marine Corps. The value of the signed contract, which is designed for 10 years, amounted to 580 million dollars.

New Gun Competition


In September 2015, the Pentagon initiated a competition to select a new modular pistol for the armed forces. The weapons were to replace the 9-mm M9 pistol, developed by the well-known small arms manufacturer Beretta, and the M11 pistol, developed by SIG Sauer specialists based on the P226 model. The first time they tried to announce the competition back in 2011, but numerous delays dragged on the selection process.


9 mm Beretta M9 gun


The winner of the competition was announced on 19 on January 2017 of the year. The victory and impressive contracts went to representatives of SIG Sauer, who presented for testing the modular pistols XM17 and XM18, created on the basis of the SIG Sauer P320 model. The models were adopted by the American army under the designations M17 and M18, respectively, M18 is a compact version of the gun and differs in its smaller size and weight. The main difference between the pistols in the barrel length, for the M17 model is 120 mm, for the M18 model is 98 mm. The Pentagon expects to completely rearm the army with new pistols in about 10 years. Announcing the adoption of new pistols, the U.S. Department of Defense said that the triple M18 pistols successfully fired at 12 thousand rounds without a single delay with an acceptable rate - 12 delays at 5 thousand shots. In addition, all SIG Sauer pistols successfully passed the test for accuracy and interchangeability of parts.

The main reason the US command decided to tackle army pistols is the same as when replacing the numerous Colt M1911A1 with Beretta M9 pistols in the 1980 years. Pistols wear out at the end of their life. Any firearm, no matter how good it is, has a finite life cycle. Naturally, you can change some elements, such as trunks, springs, various linings, but the frame itself also wears out. M9 pistols, taken into service in the 1985 year and began to be massively supplied to units at the end of the 80s of the last century, have been in operation for more than 30 years. During this time, weapons are outdated not only physically, but also morally. The US military decided to turn to new pistols due to design flaws in the M9 pistol.


9 mm SIG Sauer M17 gun


To the problems of this model of small arms, the American military include insufficiently good ergonomics, a large effort on the trigger, the absence of Picatinny rails, an inconvenient location of the fuse and other design flaws, including susceptibility to clogging. In desert conditions, as in Iraq, this often became a problem. In general, polls conducted back in 2006 showed that US military personnel who had visited Afghanistan and Iraq and were armed with M9 pistols were unhappy with this model. In 2006 and later, two modernizations of the pistol were undertaken, Picatinny rails and the possibility of installing a silencer appeared on it, but the situation did not change dramatically, and the M9A3 model could not pass the competition announced by the US military in January 2015. It is worth noting that the SIG Sauer P320 XCarry was also chosen by the Danish army to replace their pistols. At the same time, the model of gunsmiths from Switzerland bypassed representatives of Glock, Smith & Wesson and Canik.

M17 Modular Gun


The full-size version of the new modular M17 army pistol and its compact M18 version were officially adopted in the 2017 year, since then these pistols are mass-produced and gradually go to various units of the US Armed Forces. In October of 2019, new guns were tested at the shooting range by fighters of the 1th battalion of the 67th tank regiment of the 3th tank brigade from the 1th tank division. According to Michael Preston, the second lieutenant (ed. Corresponds to the rank of lieutenant in the Russian army), the transition to the M17 modular pistol will be of great benefit to the armed forces, especially in combat conditions. According to him, the new gun easily adapts to the fighter, it is lighter and more ergonomic than the 9-mm M9 pistol.


9 mm SIG Sauer M17 gun


The new gun is lighter, its weight is 30,8 American ounces (873 grams), a very good indicator for weapons of this class, it is almost exactly 100 grams less than the previous model of the main army M9 pistol. The weapon received a more perfect strike mechanism, it is better precision and increased lethality due to the use of new cartridges. The design and shape of the pistol have undergone changes and become more ergonomic, the weapon has practically no extra protruding elements, so the situation is almost eliminated in which the pistol can catch on elements of clothing or equipment. The new M17 self-loading pistol does not have safety mechanisms with protruding levers, and also did not receive the trigger / hammer lever from the cocking. Together, this leads to the absence of protruding parts, makes the weapon more compact. The gun has a small thickness, which makes it convenient for hidden wearing. Announced overall dimensions: total length - 203 mm (183 mm), width - 35,5 mm, height - 140 mm.

American tankers and a larger store compared to the M9 pistol noted. The standard magazines for the Beretta M9 pistol contained 15 cartridges, the new M17 pistol is equipped with standard magazines with 17 cartridges or enlarged magazines with 21 cartridges. As fighters from the 1 Tank Division noted: “Soldiers using the new M17 pistol will potentially feel better in combat due to the reduced weight and improved model design compared to the M9 pistol.”

The M17 self-loading pistol frame is represented by two main parts. The first is a body made of high-strength polymer with a handle and trigger guard, the second is a frame made of corrosion-resistant stainless steel. The frame combines the trigger, the slide stop and the slide-cover guide. The modular design of the weapon makes it easy to change the caliber of the pistol, if necessary. The model is available in three versions: chambered for 9x19 mm Parabellum, .357 SIG (9x22 mm) and .40 S&W (10x22 mm). In order to change the caliber of the pistol, the shooter needs to change the barrel, the bolt, as well as the return spring with the guide rod and the magazine. Thus, the shooter can adapt the pistol to suit his needs and preferences. Especially for the new pistol, Winchester has developed two new 9-mm cartridges - M1152 (a bullet with an all-metal jacket and a flat nose) and M1153 (special purpose, expansive ammunition). The last cartridge is intended more for the civilian market and police structures.


Cartridge Winchester M1152


In addition to changing the caliber, the gun allows the shooter to easily adapt the weapon to his hand and the features of carrying weapons. Handles of different sizes are available: Full-Size, Compact and Subcompact, which makes it easy to adapt the gun to a comfortable grip. The model is initially equipped with a Picatinny rail, which allows you to place the necessary tactical kit on the gun, for example, install a tactical flashlight or laser target designator. The sights of the gun are distinguished by the presence of luminous contrasting tritium points, which facilitates the aiming process in the dark.

It is known that the company SIG Sauer in the second half of the 2018 of the year launched the sale of commercial versions of the new army pistol. Representatives of the company noted that everyone will be able to purchase an exact copy of the pistol (up to the original box), which entered service with the American paratroopers from the 101 division. The gun is available in the US civilian market along with removable sights, grip pads and three magazines (on the 21 and on the 17 cartridges). The cost of the gun at the time of the start of sales was 1122 dollars.
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  1. +1
    24 October 2019 07: 24
    No matter how good the gun, but for 70 rubles in the civilian market - a little expensive.
    1. +14
      24 October 2019 07: 34
      We're talking about a country with an average salary of a little over $ 500. And the price for a new zero barrel is quite reasonable. Especially for the "Sieg Sauer"
      1. -3
        24 October 2019 15: 16
        Quote: Zeev Zeev
        We're talking about a country with an average salary of a little over $ 500. And the price for a new zero barrel is quite reasonable. Especially for the "Sieg Sauer"

        Again these tales about the "average salary". The funny thing is that most of them also have enough money - for food, clothing and housing, oh, and even credit. Although in the case of the bloated budget of the US Armed Forces, it is true, they could buy gold coins for their warriors.
      2. 0
        19 January 2020 02: 53
        Glock 17 of the last generation costs about $ 650 in the American market and the price in this regard, according to American amateurs, is really high
    2. -4
      24 October 2019 19: 35
      Well, the zigzauer should somehow feed. Here and spread the horses on the headstock. They just sold their lobby. TAP PALNO great pistols.
    3. 0
      28 November 2019 10: 59
      https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/105886/sig+sauer+p320+m17+9mm+17%2b1+47in+manual+safety

      A maximum of $ 700 with all accompanying expenses, but in the USA.
  2. +10
    24 October 2019 07: 27
    This is how it is done. Competition, tests in the army, selection, purchase. And no dancing with tambourines.
    1. -3
      24 October 2019 08: 10
      Quote: Zeev Zeev
      Competition, tests in the army, selection, purchase.

      transparent competition)) And Beretta, after all, is a beautiful machine, not like this M17, and he has some kind of diarrhea color. But reliability and convenience are paramount ...
      1. -1
        24 October 2019 08: 15
        Well, his color is not diarrhea, but protective.
        1. sen
          +2
          24 October 2019 08: 32
          We would have such an opportunity, finances - the ability to change old equipment to new.
          1. 0
            24 October 2019 08: 35
            And how much will a lot of pistols cost for the whole army? Like one modern tank or like 100 flight hours?
            1. +2
              24 October 2019 16: 10
              like 100 modern tanks, but why the guns surrendered, if the army even buys bulletproof vests in small batches of 50000 each, and the armor plates deteriorate many times faster than pistols, they need to be changed every 5 years even from conscripts because this is essentially clothing
          2. +2
            24 October 2019 11: 01
            Guns do not win ...
          3. +3
            24 October 2019 13: 37
            But the problem is one !!!! You need to steal less, and will be enough for everything !!!!!
          4. +3
            24 October 2019 16: 14
            "We would have such an opportunity, finances - the ability to change old equipment for new"

            We need to buy a couple of hundred of these pistols to shoot our thieving officials and more opportunities will immediately appear))))
        2. +2
          24 October 2019 08: 36
          Quote: Zeev Zeev
          his color is ..... protective.
          I'm wondering why the gun needs a protective color?
          1. -1
            24 October 2019 08: 39
            Well, firstly, it’s beautiful ... And secondly, in NVD, black weapons stand out very well against the background of their uniforms.
            1. 0
              24 October 2019 08: 44
              Quote: Zeev Zeev
              Well firstly, it's beautiful ...

              such a diarrhea color? laughing There would be no signature that this is a combat pistol, I would have thought it was a cheap Chinese toy.
              Quote: Zeev Zeev
              And secondly, in NVD black weapons stand out very well against the background of their uniforms.

              ???? it seems to me that the anti-glare coating of the weapon plays a greater role there, and against the background of a person, such a detail as a pistol half hidden in the hand is not such an unmasking factor
              1. +1
                24 October 2019 08: 51
                There is an ancient anecdote about "this is beautiful". And in night vision devices with light amplification, any contrasting detail is very noticeable.
                1. +2
                  24 October 2019 08: 55
                  Quote: Zeev Zeev
                  And in the night vision light-emitting diode any contrast detail is very noticeable.

                  I agree, but it depends on what to contrast and I already mentioned that 50% of the visible part of the gun is too insignificant part of the volume of a person with all the ammunition. But God be with them, the gun is not ours)))
          2. +3
            24 October 2019 10: 06
            Why is the gun a protective color?

            color is sandy. Probably for desert action. In the sun, black is very hot.
          3. +1
            24 October 2019 12: 36
            Of course, to make it easier to lose.
          4. 0
            11 December 2019 12: 30
            So that the enemy does not find the lost weapon.
    2. +2
      24 October 2019 08: 33
      And it is surprising that the second time the United States chooses a foreign pistol for arming its army. At the same time, the country has enormous achievements in short-barreled weapons.
      1. +1
        24 October 2019 09: 41
        Choose what is best.
        1. 0
          2 January 2020 08: 30
          In the book "Modern Small Arms" published by Rusich in 2000, it is literally written the following: "The Swiss firm" ZIG "produces the world's best samples of firearms"
      2. +4
        24 October 2019 13: 35
        Quote: YOUR
        And it is surprising that the second time the United States chooses a foreign pistol for arming its army. At the same time, the country has enormous achievements in short-barreled weapons.

        Rumors about the foreign origin of the Zig-Sauer pistol are greatly exaggerated. Concerns such as "Beretta", "Heckler und Koch", "FN" and the same "Sieg-Sauer" have production facilities in the USA, and they are often even larger than European ones there. In fact, these concerns have been American for a long time.
    3. 0
      24 October 2019 09: 25
      Quote: Zeev Zeev

      This is how it is done. Competition, tests in the army, selection, purchase. And no dancing with tambourines.

      Oh, how beautiful "Competition, selection, purchase" was written so on paper, but they forgot about the ravines. And this is the guy from Israel speaking. The true formula is - "Vasya-Vasya, rollback, purchase." And be it the USA, Israel, Russia, not to mention Africa and Ukraine.
      1. -6
        24 October 2019 09: 40
        I’ll tell you a little secret - beyond the borders of the former USSR, everything does not work at all the way you are used to.
        1. +2
          24 October 2019 11: 20
          Quote: Zeev Zeev
          I’ll tell you a little secret - beyond the borders of the former USSR, everything does not work at all the way you are used to.

          There is no secret, they take it everywhere (in Israel, too, by the way) I saw all this with my own eyes both in the USSR and outside the former USSR. For I also live beyond it. To the fuss of Zeev Zvev, Lehitraot!
          1. +1
            24 October 2019 11: 34
            Yes of course.
            1. +4
              24 October 2019 11: 46
              Quote: Zeev Zeev
              Yes of course.

              How is a person different from an animal? By greed.
        2. 0
          25 October 2019 09: 29
          In the United States or Israel, any average business, let alone big business, is impossible without "connections" (tm). Americans are not ashamed of this and perfectly demonstrate it in hundreds of films and TV shows.
      2. +3
        24 October 2019 10: 05
        The true formula is: "Vasya-Vasya, rollback, purchase.

        In the USA, lobbying is officially permitted. That is, an official for the money is taken to push through the necessary law or influence the choice, for example, weapons for the army. It officially receives money for this and pays taxes on them.
    4. 0
      24 October 2019 12: 38
      this is not dancing - this is theft and kickbacks
    5. 0
      24 October 2019 13: 26
      Quote: Zeev Zeev
      This is how it is done. Competition, tests in the army, selection, purchase. And no dancing with tambourines.

      And roll back?
      1. 0
        24 October 2019 13: 43
        What for? Then to fight back in the commission of Congress and have problems with reputation? Who needs this?
    6. +3
      24 October 2019 15: 19
      Quote: Zeev Zeev
      This is how it is done. Competition, tests in the army, selection, purchase. And no dancing with tambourines.

      Tales again. In the USA, these dances with a tambourine around replacing the M9 are YEARS already, for which they put advantages? For what you want to hear? So I wrote a fact - they have been dancing with the replacement of M4 and M9 for almost the last ten years, but they will roll off the minuses right now, because it is not so pleasant that they have the same dances.
      1. 0
        24 October 2019 16: 23
        M9 was adopted in 1989, and 30 years calmly served. When it became necessary to change - changed. The M4 joined the army in 1994, first to the special forces, as a short version of the M16A2, then, according to the experience of Iraq and the war in the building-up, the whole army. When a replacement was needed, the M4A1 came out. Will need a replacement for him - will be replaced.
        1. -2
          25 October 2019 10: 44
          Quote: Zeev Zeev
          When a replacement was needed, the M4A1 came out. Will need a replacement for him - will be replaced.

          The situation with the M4 was initially quite delusional. The Americans brought the M16 to their minds for 30 years and brought it just when the NIB, improving the sights and increasing ranges, made the 5,56 cartridge obsolete.

          The Americans are now really serious about changing the weapon-cartridge system. What will come of this - God knows, the Americans have a million failed shooting programs. In the meantime, the ILC will push through the HC under the guise of a light machine gun, the special forces will push through the "modular" FN SCAR and, while talking about this modularity, will change the caliber to 7,62 NATO.
          1. 0
            25 October 2019 15: 13
            They will not change .223, not this decade. Like Russia will not change 5.45.
            1. 0
              25 October 2019 15: 32
              Quote: Zeev Zeev
              They will not change .223, not in this decade

              There is a year left from this decade. The understanding that 5,56 Chinese bronik does not take has been around for quite some time. In armaments in recent days, 2 articles about 6,8mm.
              Quote: Zeev Zeev
              Like Russia will not change 5.45.

              Russia yes, no money, but you hold on.
              1. 0
                27 October 2019 09: 53
                I did not mean in the next ten years. By the way, 7.62x39 also does not take the Chinese bronik, and 6.8 does not. If bronik 4 classes. But this is garbage, in battle it is more important not to kill, but to disable, .223 American problems have other problems, for example, the instability of the trajectory. Therefore, the main cartridge of NATO is the Belgian SS-109.
                1. -1
                  27 October 2019 15: 52
                  Quote: Zeev Zeev
                  not in the next ten years.

                  Wait and see.
                  Quote: Zeev Zeev
                  7.62x39 also does not take the Chinese bronik, and 6.8 does not. If bronik 4 classes. But this is garbage, in battle it’s more important not to kill, but to disable, from the Americans .2

                  Just 6,8 in the available samples (6.8mm Remington SPC) is radically different in this sense from 7,62x39 and approaches 7,62 NATO.
                  Quote: Zeev Zeev
                  American .223 has other problems, such as path instability.

                  Old 5,56 was optimal for an unprotected carcass, not even out of place. For (at least somehow) a better protected Belgian version.
                  1. +1
                    27 October 2019 16: 19
                    I smoked a topic here, and this is ... You are right, and .223 and 7.62x39 furnish the new cartridge one and a half times.
                    1. -1
                      27 October 2019 16: 45
                      Quote: Zeev Zeev
                      and .223 and 7.62x39 the new cartridge furnishes one and a half times.

                      It is not clear there. Considering what cartridges, bullets and pressures are painted there, something can be prohibitively tough, tougher .300Win. With such pies, the main issue will be recoil control in automatic fire and barrel survivability, but range and armor penetration will be much higher than SVD.
                      1. 0
                        27 October 2019 18: 33
                        Brand new with plastic telescopic sleeve?
                      2. 0
                        27 October 2019 19: 12
                        Quote: Zeev Zeev
                        Brand new with plastic telescopic sleeve?

                        About tekstronovsky in general it is not clear, there is nothing to compare. But even the simplest of them, 6.8 Sherwood, resembles .270 Redding, for example. And this is a very hot thing, her homemade products swing up to 3000 f / s per 130g, even 140g pool. That is, the speed is almost 5,56 with a weight of almost 7,62.
        2. +1
          27 October 2019 09: 33
          Quote: Zeev Zeev
          M9 was adopted in 1989, and 30 years calmly served.

          Yes, if they left Colt 1911 (just rearmament with new ones), Colt would have served as calmly wink It’s just that someone made a small gesheft on Beretta, and now he will make a gesheft on Zig Zaur, and of all things ... request
  3. -1
    24 October 2019 07: 35
    But isn’t it forbidden in mattress to sell expansive bullets to civilians? And is the capacity of a civilian weapons store not limited to 10 cartridges? (Although the same store volume limiters are easily removable)
    1. 0
      24 October 2019 07: 39
      Why should expansive bullets be banned? And what kind of restrictions on store capacity are we talking about, what staff?
    2. +7
      24 October 2019 08: 33
      Quote: Stroibat stock
      sale of expansive bullets to civilians

      Not prohibited. It is forbidden to use the military, civilians for hunting are allowed.
      1. -2
        24 October 2019 08: 43
        And not just for hunting.
      2. +1
        24 October 2019 15: 20
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Quote: Stroibat stock
        sale of expansive bullets to civilians

        Not prohibited. It is forbidden to use the military, civilians for hunting are allowed.

        The United States put a ban on the use of expansive cartridges by the military, watch a video about their base in Syria, they directly show expansive cartridges in boxes.
        1. -1
          24 October 2019 16: 14
          lol, how were they going to fight with the bangs in the bronics? or in that area were only poor fellows without 500 bucks per plate?
        2. 0
          24 October 2019 16: 17
          The United States puts everything - the strong is always right. request
  4. +6
    24 October 2019 09: 12
    The modularity of a pistol in real combat conditions is a big question. The gun is generally an auxiliary weapon for the military. It’s only in the movies they shoot guns. It is better for soldiers to take a couple of extra stores to the machine gun; officers do not shoot at all. And the anti-terror specialists have been targeting one pistol for years, and they have nothing to do with multi-caliber.
    1. +7
      24 October 2019 10: 02
      It’s only in the movies they shoot guns. It is better for soldiers to take a couple of extra stores to the machine gun; officers do not shoot at all.

      I don’t remember the name of the US Army sergeant. He was awarded a medal for killing 6 opponents with a pistol. Enemy soldiers burst into the position, he snatched up a colt and voila, 6 corpses.
      Therefore, in the US Army, which, as you know, only does what it fights around the world, questions about the need for a pistol do not arise.
      1. +1
        24 October 2019 13: 40
        It was a PMV with Colt 1911
      2. +2
        24 October 2019 13: 51
        Sergeant Alvin York. Under cover of comrades' fire, he attacked the position of the German troops, getting close from the flank. First, he shot with a rifle, after the cartridges ran out, the Germans launched a counterattack (against one soldier) and Sergeant York killed six with a pistol, after which the Germans surrendered. 135 people.
        1. -2
          24 October 2019 15: 22
          And if, instead of a pistol, this sergeant would have been given a handful of cartridges, then the outcome would have been the same.
          1. 0
            24 October 2019 16: 24
            Is not a fact. All the same, the Springfield M1903 pistol is much inferior in rate of fire.
  5. -1
    24 October 2019 09: 15
    And why should the short-bar Picatinny rail? He doesn’t shoot further than 30.
    1. 0
      24 October 2019 09: 28
      And why should the short-bar Picatinny rail?
      For the best effective shooting (flashlight, collimator sights, etc.)
      1. -1
        24 October 2019 09: 30
        You can still agree with the flashlight, but the collimator on the 30 m is too much
        1. +1
          24 October 2019 09: 32
          but the collimator at 30 meters is a bust
          The collimator does not have to be used at 30 meters, for effective shooting it is used by many at 5-10 meters.
          1. 0
            24 October 2019 09: 52
            and this whole farm will be in the army holster?
            1. +2
              24 October 2019 10: 04
              And this is already at the request of the soldier, the law says that the soldier has the right, at his own expense, to buy all this economy (as you said) separately from the property issued to them.
          2. 0
            24 October 2019 20: 05
            At 5-10 meters, the enemy needs to be shot from the hip, and only bedbugs on the wall can be aimed at such a distance through the collimator.
        2. -3
          24 October 2019 09: 59
          You can still agree with the flashlight, but the collimator on the 30 m is too much

          There are different collimators. You can aim from the hip, guided by the red dot on the enemy. A great opportunity for accurate shooting.
          1. +2
            24 October 2019 16: 16
            so it’s already
  6. 0
    24 October 2019 09: 57
    Confusion again between "modularity" and "unification".
  7. +2
    24 October 2019 10: 55
    hi ... the new M17 pistol is equipped with standard magazines for 17 rounds or enlarged magazines for 21 rounds
    1. +2
      24 October 2019 11: 41
      Hi Sasha! hi And what, a normal gun, since the Yankees believe that it is possible to spend money on it, then health. And the fact that the color is sand, so nowadays the fashion is like that, they paint everything no matter what they get, there, men are in khaki on the bridges of warships, and soon everyone will be dressed in camouflage on submarines. smile
      1. +2
        24 October 2019 12: 13



        hi ... Good morning Cat!
        Alternative option:

    2. 0
      25 October 2019 09: 37
      Chic roller - demonstrated all the capabilities of the gun.
  8. -8
    24 October 2019 12: 50
    Quote: glory1974
    It’s only in the movies they shoot guns. It is better for soldiers to take a couple of extra stores to the machine gun; officers do not shoot at all.

    I don’t remember the name of the US Army sergeant. He was awarded a medal for killing 6 opponents with a pistol. Enemy soldiers burst into the position, he snatched up a colt and voila, 6 corpses.
    Therefore, in the US Army, which, as you know, only does what it fights around the world, questions about the need for a pistol do not arise.

    Unlikely. Most likely he killed six civilians, and they imagined that they were militants. Or shot the prisoners.
  9. -1
    24 October 2019 13: 43
    Well, "tupyyyyyyye", whether we have PM and APS, which the sofa experts consider the best for all time in the universe and its environs, and which, according to their words, do not go crazy and do not jam !!!
  10. +1
    24 October 2019 15: 05
    B7 hello from Argentina!
    Many years ago I bought a Brazilian "clone" Beretta 92. Uhh .... For $ 300. I read the article ... and decided that my Taurus92 is better, yes, and more beautiful. The clear light is that I am a "civilian" person. I do not serve in the Argentine army.
    This M17, as I understand it, has no fuse, is that so? And does not "cling" to clothes?
    I, here, a local friend, criticized me for Taurus92, says that it is too big, it is not convenient to "secretly" wear .... not quickly "pull out" ....
    And I ... uh ... when I take it with me, I take it out "in advance" ...
    Without fanaticism and paranoia.
    Here, in Argentina, express attacks are very, "popular", what would blow them up .... The bandit decides to attack at the last second, but for this he, the bandit, "observes" and "evaluates" everything. But this, very much even "noticeable", and I, while I can still, but as they say, and the old woman comes ... there is time, calmly prepare for the "defeat" of the bandit.
    The bandit is not a duelist, not an enemy soldier, not Robin, God forgive me, Hood. And if he does not succeed with me, well, in a couple of minutes, he will rob another, and a third ..... Therefore, instructions from the Taurus "hip" cause, well, while I was "lucky", "a slight stupor". I repeat, this is all without fanaticism and paranoia on my part.
    Something I’m here, in the old man’s way, is loose, but, like that, a pistol, if you “frantically” try to pull it out, and dream that it would not get caught anywhere, then it seems to me that you have already “lost” ... to get it, the pistol, "in advance".
    Even in war.
    1. 0
      24 October 2019 15: 22
      Duc, then I remembered that I "came in handy", that is, when I "pulled out and instructed", Taurus92 only then three or four times for the whole time.
      Много это или мало?
      How to know, how to know .....
      1. 0
        25 October 2019 09: 41
        3-4 times for a civilian is a lot. For each of them is an Event; he is imprinted in the psyche and reflexes.
  11. 0
    24 October 2019 15: 24
    Quote: glory1974
    It’s only in the movies they shoot guns. It is better for soldiers to take a couple of extra stores to the machine gun; officers do not shoot at all.

    I don’t remember the name of the US Army sergeant. He was awarded a medal for killing 6 opponents with a pistol. Enemy soldiers burst into the position, he snatched up a colt and voila, 6 corpses.
    Therefore, in the US Army, which, as you know, only does what it fights around the world, questions about the need for a pistol do not arise.

    Well, yes, and the army of the USSR after the Second World War and the army of the Russian Federation in the 90s just sat on a picnic and marched in parades? What is the worship of the USA? A gun is a dead weight to a soldier, only shoot himself and look cool in the photo, and exceptions only confirm the rule.
    1. +3
      24 October 2019 15: 53
      A gun is a dead weight to a soldier, just shoot yourself and look cool in the photo, and exceptions only confirm the rule.

      A dagger is good for someone who has one, and bad for someone who doesn't have one.
      In war, weapons cannot be superfluous. Yes, there’s no point in attacking with a gun. But as a weapon of last chance, it should be. And those cases that you call exceptions are actually indicators of the need for a gun. Since, those who didn’t have a gun would already tell anyone.
      Well, yes, and the army of the USSR after the Second World War and the army of the Russian Federation in 90 simply sat on a picnic and marched in parades? What is the worship of the USA?

      What does the worship of the USA have to do with it? fool
      An article about the United States and that they adopted a pistol and what they repelled from.
      If there was talk about the Russian Federation, I would give a bunch of examples about the Russian Federation. By the way, I know them much more than about the United States.
    2. 0
      25 October 2019 09: 44
      The pistols of the USSR have been stagnant since the 1950s. This is a fact.
      USA is the leading "pistol" power. And by the weapon itself, and by the method of its use. And in terms of prevalence. This is a Fact.
      For the military, a gun is: a) a weapon of self-defense; b) status. That is how he has been considered for a long time.
  12. +4
    24 October 2019 18: 24
    no change of calibers on the army M17 is provided
    all "modularity" for him consists in three standard sizes of a handle for three sizes of a hand
    Well, even in the event of a failure from getting a fragment, you can not immediately drag the gun to the gunsmith, but order one more handle of the required size from it (or take it from a colleague), and WHILE USING ONE OF THE REMAINING - less convenient, but possible. The question is where do they store the zip TO GUN.
    Third-party companies can also make handles for this gun - legally, the handle is not a weapon. that is, a CAM soldier can buy a frame of interest to him. Say - in the configuration MPE FLUX MP17
    1. 0
      25 October 2019 09: 48
      Plus. Replaceable parts do not store. Simply, on the basis, a person is selected the size necessary for him and, in the future, he walks with him. That's all.
      From the US military, they buy something for themselves, in the overwhelming number of cases, special forces and part of the paratroopers. And then, for this they have "common" and "regimental" money.
  13. 0
    24 October 2019 18: 33
    Interestingly, does anyone have statistics on the defeat in the war from a pistol? From the whole insole, the defeat is about 15%, from the pistol I suppose well 1/1000. It turns out that this gun will actually increase the effectiveness of the defeat only of these 0,015%, but the contract for 500 million is more convenient to wear. That's why we do not change PM, because investments are large, but you need essentially to shoot yourself. You can spend money more efficiently. It will be much more interesting to watch how they will change the main caliber by 6,8 mm., Then these 15% will really increase
    1. +3
      24 October 2019 22: 45
      Regarding the effective spending of funds, it is not for us and not in this country to argue !!! How many passes by the cash register, it would be possible for each gr.f.
      1. 0
        24 October 2019 23: 14
        Be that as it may, they are sawing money everywhere, somewhere more, somewhere less. In our country, I consider the military budget in recent years to be considered (I am a little connected with this topic at work) and consider how it is more efficient for the army to spend. The gun should be in last places. One change of caliber from 9x18 to 9x19 will cost giant money
    2. 0
      12 January 2022 22: 24
      The question is extremely interesting. There are statistics that "tunnel rats" were armed only with pistols.
      It’s hard for an operator of heavy weapons like the Kornet or a sapper to carry a machine gun, and it just gets in the way, which is why the sappers’ machine guns stand aside, no matter how hard you scold. And the pistol on the belt is a chance to shoot in the direction of the enemy and crawl to your machine gun.
      And it’s also worth remembering that the military goes on leave, and in all Syrias there is also a risk of being killed while entering the city to the market. So let it be.
  14. 0
    24 October 2019 19: 18
    I understand that the M9 has flaws, but physical obsolescence, as the reason for the replacement, is completely incomprehensible to me. What is the problem to write off the old ones and produce new ones? If they are morally outdated, then this is how it should be written.
  15. +1
    25 October 2019 13: 57
    There is no manual fuse in the basic civilian P320, and the army m17 is distinguished by the presence of a fuse and the impossibility of complete disassembly without a special tool. In the photo to the article, the fuse is perfectly visible.
  16. -1
    25 October 2019 23: 48
    It is strange that the kit does not include a light butt, as for Glock.
    Still, there are few cartridges, it’s a pity to smear. With the butt, it’s safer to get there.

    There are simpler butts than in the figure.
    1. +2
      26 October 2019 01: 28
      And why the military this butt? What to do with him?
      1. -1
        26 October 2019 01: 38
        From a pistol beautifully fall into the dash. And in the movies.
        And during the fighting, the chest heaves (out of breath), sweat
        floods eyes, cough from smoke, etc. Any nasty thing interferes with "shine".
        And if you push the butt in the shoulder, there is a chance to get at least 25 m,
        and without it - shooting at milk.
        1. +2
          26 October 2019 07: 30
          I’m talking about this. A pistol is not a means of self-defense in combat against an adversary with an automatic rifle. This requires a minimum of software.
          And to use a pistol for police functions, which are sometimes involved in the military, or as a personal weapon of officers, this folding butt is not needed. It is rather for civilian weapons.
          1. 0
            26 October 2019 11: 49
            "This requires a minimum of PP" ////
            ----
            A pistol with a butt - this is almost PP.
            For a soldier, he is needed as a spare "second barrel"
            to the extreme (purely defensive!) case
            something happened to the main weapon (the ammunition ran out,
            damaged by a shard, etc.).
            Therefore, such a gun should be 1) very light
            2) multiply charged 3) with a tight butt
            1. +2
              26 October 2019 13: 08
              Almost PP is not PP.
              PP provides the density of fire required by army self-defense weapons. No gun.
              Neither the Mauseta, nor the Stechkins with the butt took root in the army.
              Cases in which a gun can serve as a weapon of defense are, of course, possible, but very rare. In cramped rooms, perhaps.
              Gone are the days when, in close combat, a pistol or revolver surpassed an infantry store magazine rifle in rate of fire, and a rifle bayonet in range.

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