Military Review

Ukraine had shipyards for the construction of cruisers, now rejoiced on decommissioned boats - Chinese experts

115
In the Chinese media, stories are published in which readers are told that the United States delivered its decommissioned Island-class boats to Odessa. Today "Voennoye Obozreniye" in one of its news The materials reported that the boats P190 "Slavyansk" and P191 "Starobelsk" were launched while unloading the transport vessel Ocean Freedom.




Chinese military experts reported that these boats became so desirable for Ukraine, were puzzled. First of all, this perplexity is due to the fact that Ukraine, it would seem, has enough of its own capacities to build boats of this class.

One of the remarks in the military section of the Chinese portal SINA:

Ukraine at one time had a Black Sea shipyard, which allowed building cruisers. Now they got into it.

Indeed, it is more than strange to lose a powerful shipbuilding industry and now rejoice at the delivery of foreign decommissioned boats.

Comment in the same information source:

Ukraine got in touch with the West. But just what benefits can the West bring to Ukraine?

In fact, foreign experts are talking about obvious things - those about which Russia has been speaking about Ukraine in recent years. And the fact that the West has not yet brought (and is unlikely to bring) real benefits to Ukraine was realized even in China, which is thousands of kilometers from Kiev and Odessa. And only in Ukraine, apparently, there are individuals who continue to believe that the West will help.

If the boats written off by the United States and repainted by Ukraine are taken seriously as “tangible military assistance,” then it is unlikely that the same people should expect an intelligible answer about what happened in recent years to their own, Ukrainian, shipbuilding industry.
Photos used:
Facebook / Naval Forces of Ukraine
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  1. Honest Citizen
    Honest Citizen 23 October 2019 14: 42
    +19
    For what they rode, they got it ...
    1. Proxima
      Proxima 23 October 2019 14: 56
      +5
      And this is the country that built aircraft carriers as part of the Union! (Nikolaev Shipyard). Himself not ashamed ?! fool
      Quote: Honest Citizen
      For what they rode, they got it ...
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 23 October 2019 15: 18
        +8
        Quote: Proxima
        And this is the country that built aircraft carriers as part of the Union! (Nikolaev Shipyard).

        After all of us, everything that happened to us after the collapse left something and even a lot. But slowly someone crawls out of the pit, someone crawled out, but some only fall down, and the parachute does not open. But they do not understand that he may not be revealed.
        1. Honest Citizen
          Honest Citizen 23 October 2019 15: 25
          +7
          But slowly someone crawls out of the pit, someone crawled out, but some only fall down

          Can you give a little more detail, who crawled out?
          IMHO, after the collapse of the USSR, not one of the republics included in it has yet crept out as a state. The RSFSR also - the loss of production capacity, a drop in the level of education, medicine ....
          I won't talk about individual Sechins / Millers / Rottenbergs - they have been crawling for a long time
          1. Proxima
            Proxima 23 October 2019 16: 46
            +8
            Quote: Honest Citizen

            Can you give a little more detail, who crawled out?

            Russia crawled out, it crawled out! Not without loss of course. We were saved in the 90s that the defense industry, devoid of government orders, began to work for export. This saved many defense industries (not all of course). Now we see the following picture: Russia in second place in arms exports and almost caught up with the United States (this is with such a huge American GDP and the "ability" to push weapons to satellites according to NATO standards). And most importantly: thanks to an ordinary defense industry robot who worked in the dashing nineties just for the idea! hi
            1. Honest Citizen
              Honest Citizen 23 October 2019 17: 05
              +2
              So in Russia and in addition to the defense industry there was production. Now Rosstat "draws" rainbow pictures for Medvedev, but in fact - there is practically no work. And what's the point if we are the second largest exporter of weapons, if, for example, I have nowhere to work?
            2. Rzzz
              Rzzz 23 October 2019 19: 53
              +2
              Quote: Proxima
              Russia crawled out, it crawled out! Not without loss of course

              You would watch less TV. I’m only watching cartoons and all sorts of discoveries. Last time I watched the news a few years ago.
              But I look around and draw conclusions that I really don’t like.
              You are probably taken in an area where everything is fine. Well, so lucky for you.
              The main damage that Russia has suffered is time. All material resources can be returned gradually. But in technology, we are 30 years behind in most industries. After all, these turbulent events in our history fell precisely on the era of technological leap. And we just had no time for rearmament. So the majority of enterprises have died - not because of the malice of under-oligarchs, but simply because of their futility.
              It turns out that 20 percent of Soviet industry survived. The most sought after and best equipped at the end of the 80s, and those that were able to integrate into new realities. Plus, there are still not many new enterprises and agriculture has grown well, sort of. Anyway, not enough !!
              Inflated to disgrace and completely ineffective, the state apparatus with the siloviki of all stripes and the entire enormous service sector are not included in these calculations. The state does not earn money on them; this is the ballast of the economy.
          2. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 23 October 2019 19: 00
            +3
            Quote: Honest Citizen
            Can you give a little more detail, who crawled out?

            But relative to others, Russia still crawled out, although not to the full level, but it did not fall.
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 23 October 2019 22: 03
          0
          Quote: tihonmarine
          But they do not understand that he may not be revealed.

          Just "friendly" Anglo-Saxons, instead of a parachute bag, gave a bag of bricks in the form of promises of a bright, rich and comfortable life and the IMF with a policy of robbing countries.
      2. Greg Miller
        Greg Miller 23 October 2019 15: 21
        +1
        No need to laugh at Ukraine, Russia is no different from it. We also had 4 shipyards where nuclear submarines were built, and there was only one left ... And how many factories built planes, tanks, and so on ... and what of this survived the Yeltsin era and "stability"?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 23 October 2019 15: 38
          +8
          Quote: Greg Miller
          Russia is no different from it.

          Yes?
          And how many decommissioned American boats do we have in service?
          1. Honest Citizen
            Honest Citizen 23 October 2019 15: 43
            +4
            And how many Boeings and Airbases do we have? Where are the modern TU, ILs?
            Or the Sukhoi Superjet - which is jointly developed and produced with France - is the "measure" of success?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 23 October 2019 15: 53
              +9
              Quote: Honest Citizen
              And how many Boeings and Airbases do we have?

              Written off and donated? No one.
              1. Honest Citizen
                Honest Citizen 23 October 2019 15: 55
                0
                Written off and donated? No one.

                Do not be ironic. You perfectly understood what I meant.
                And then, I strongly doubt that the Yankees just "gave it". They even sell humanitarian aid, so here I suppose, too, they gave a loan on the sly, and, under the guise of money, lent old stuff.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 23 October 2019 16: 00
                  -2
                  Quote: Honest Citizen
                  Do not be ironic. You perfectly understood what I meant.

                  Naturally understood. You have no arguments, so you decided to replace them with verbosity.

                  I will repeat the question again. How many decommissioned boats donated by the Americans are in the ranks of Russia? More than Ukraine, or none at all?
                  1. Honest Citizen
                    Honest Citizen 23 October 2019 16: 03
                    +8
                    As far as I know, Russia did not buy and did not accept decommissioned boats as a gift for the needs of the Navy.
                    But the speech is initially about the fact that the industry was lost, and now they are happy with the old. As an example, that we have the same thing, I brought aviation. The only difference is that we bought Boeings and others after 15 years of operation. And they ruined their own under the guise of "non-competitive".
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 23 October 2019 16: 11
                      0
                      Quote: Honest Citizen
                      As far as I know, Russia did not buy and did not accept decommissioned boats as a gift for the needs of the Navy.

                      Q.E.D. And the planes also did not accept as a gift.
                      Quote: Honest Citizen
                      But it was originally about the fact that they had cheated the industry, and now they are happy with old age.

                      They are not happy with the old, they are happy with the freebies. Instead of developing your own. At least restoring and modernizing what was received from the USSR. For reference: Ukraine initially received 30 warships and vessels. So to speak, "lifting".
                      1. Honest Citizen
                        Honest Citizen 23 October 2019 16: 12
                        +2
                        Rejoice not in old age, rejoice in freebies

                        I do not even know.
                        So you will be delighted if they give you an old cassette recorder? It’s kind of like a suitcase without a handle. And it is a pity to throw out and use is difficult.
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 23 October 2019 16: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Honest Citizen
                        So you will be delighted if they give you an old cassette recorder?

                        Given that I do not produce them?

                        And you will be delighted if a neighbor drives you a three-day fried egg, because you have a full refrigerator, but cook too lazy?
                      3. Rzzz
                        Rzzz 23 October 2019 20: 00
                        +3
                        Quote: Honest Citizen
                        So you will be delighted if they give you an old cassette recorder?

                        I would be glad. I would have it repaired, put in order, close to the state of the new, and sold to connoisseurs of retro for normal money. laughing

                        I would have done about the same thing with a boat, it just begs the conversion into a yacht.
                      4. Leopold
                        Leopold 23 October 2019 20: 40
                        +1
                        "Humpbacked" Zaporozhets is no less worth it. And if you also make a yacht out of it ... good
              2. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 23 October 2019 19: 08
                +5
                Quote: Spade
                Written off and donated? No one.

                And with their own, not someone else's ships, and with their "Calibers" from the Caspian Sea, ISIS were carried away. And "friends" from the West try to bypass us in the sea and in the air.
            2. Private-K
              Private-K 24 October 2019 07: 51
              0
              As for Russian civil aviation, here, filling it with Boeing and airbuses instead of carcasses with silts is a completely and completely political decision of the liberal figures of the Russian government. Those. - deliberate spreading the industry.
              Outside Ukraine, the situation with shipbuilding is somewhat different ...
          2. novel66
            novel66 23 October 2019 15: 47
            +1
            not yet evening...
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 23 October 2019 15: 53
              0
              It’s not evening yet.
          3. Aleks2048
            Aleks2048 23 October 2019 16: 23
            +5
            And how many decommissioned American boats do we have in service?

            And how many surface ships of the ocean zone are laid and built in the Russian Federation? Do not be shy, let us already boast of the successes of our shipbuilding.
            1. Brturin
              Brturin 23 October 2019 17: 17
              +4
              Quote: Alex2048
              Do not be shy let's already boast of the success of our shipbuilding

              From the latest news - The first tanker of the Aframax type will be launched in the near future at the Zvezda shipbuilding complex (SSK), + icebreakers have been laid down ... I would like more, but .... do not build ...
              1. Aleks2048
                Aleks2048 23 October 2019 19: 47
                +3
                It was about military surface ships ... And you are talking about tankers and icebreakers ... In fact, we are talking about commercial transport ...
                1. Brturin
                  Brturin 23 October 2019 21: 12
                  +1
                  surface ships of the ocean zone laid

                  for me, in order to build a military fleet, you need to master the civilian sector of this zone well, but for now we are just catching up ... It's commercial, of course, but no matter what taxes they pay, so on September 25, the United States imposed sanctions on part of the Chinese COSCO division, and they have a stake in a company that owns six Arc7 class tankers for Yamal LNG, not fatal, but ... True, they quickly outplayed and the tankers were taken out of sanctions, but the sediment ... the tankers started, they will reach the gas carriers, and there. .. wait and see....
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 23 October 2019 17: 32
              0
              Quote: Alex2048
              And how many surface ships of the ocean zone are laid and built in the Russian Federation?

              Question to question?
              1. Aleks2048
                Aleks2048 23 October 2019 19: 47
                0
                And why not?
              2. Aleks2048
                Aleks2048 23 October 2019 19: 52
                +1
                And how many decommissioned American boats do we have in service?

                But in fact, they correctly told you that the Russian Federation is not much different from Ukraine in terms of the fleet ... We rejoice at launching RTOs as small children ... Absolutely stubborn urapatriots tell tales about how modern RTOs will sink avik from the last century ... Idiocy . If only they wrote with their tenacity to the sites of ORT or the Rossiya TV channel, they might find more understanding there, and to go to more or less specialized sites with such ideas they only put themselves in a silly position.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 23 October 2019 20: 17
                  0
                  Quote: Alex2048
                  But in fact, they correctly told you that the Russian Federation is not much different from Ukraine

                  Essentially, they told me. But no one could argue this thesis.
                  Including you.

                  In reality, Russia is very different from Ukraine. Moreover, even such post-Soviet countries as Georgia or Latvia-Lithuania-Estonia are much ahead of Ukraine in terms of their development.
                  The armies of the Baltic countries were once welcomed by the ancient rusty rifleman from the warehouses of the Scandinavian countries. Which in the 80s of the last century was forgotten to be disposed of. Because they did not inherit anything from the Soviet Army. Unlike Ukraine.
                  And now they are buying quite modern weapons. They buy, but do not get a freebie after a long whining and many requests.
                  1. Aleks2048
                    Aleks2048 23 October 2019 20: 20
                    +1
                    In reality, Russia is very different from Ukraine.

                    No verbiage ... About countries in general ... About weapons in general ... and more specifically about the surface fleet of the ocean zone have something to say?
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 23 October 2019 20: 23
                      -1
                      Quote: Alex2048
                      No verbiage ...

                      That's it!
                      Could you indicate how many American decommissioned boats are in the ranks of the Russian Navy? No.
                      So what's the question? And who needs to address the phrase about "no verbiage"?
                      1. Aleks2048
                        Aleks2048 24 October 2019 06: 11
                        0
                        So what's the question?


                        In reality, Russia is very different from Ukraine.

                        But the question is not
                        And how many decommissioned American boats do we have in service?

                        Let's get to the arguments.
                        We look at the policy of Ukraine and very quickly understand that NATO and the United States are not enemies of Ukraine, Turks are not enemies for Ukrainians either, but the enemies of Ukraine turned out to be the Russian Federation, which for almost 30 years of its independent existence has not built a single surface ship in the ocean zone. And it turns out that Ukraine will receive a fleet corresponding to its enemy. And our fleet is opposed by a fleet of NATO countries, but why is there only one US fleet that will be enough for our fleet to once again die heroically.
                        And as for the boats themselves, so the decommissioned US boats are not ready to act in a network-centric war, that our modern MRKs are not capable of this.
                        So is the difference so big?
            3. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 23 October 2019 19: 13
              +3
              Quote: Alex2048
              Do not be shy, let us already boast of the successes of our shipbuilding.

              They do not need to be shy, but it is also impossible to haul achievements. All the same, there is a positive trend. And do not forget that you are no longer living in a popular state, but in a capitalist state, and these are other economic relations and a different life. You can’t live old, you need to live in new conditions and survive.
              1. Aleks2048
                Aleks2048 23 October 2019 19: 57
                +2
                They do not need to be shy, but it is also impossible to haul achievements. All the same, there is a positive trend.

                The trend regarding what? At the time of the formation of the Russian Federation, it is not surprising that the figures for creating ships was zero.
                And do not forget that you are no longer living in a popular state, but in a capitalist state, and these are other economic relations and a different life. You can’t live old, you need to live in new conditions and survive.

                I have not forgotten anything. As well as the fact that the USSR has not existed since 1991. So what have we created in Russia for almost 30 years? And all the same we grin at other post-Soviet republics.
                1. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 23 October 2019 21: 16
                  +2
                  Quote: Alex2048
                  So what have we created in Russia for almost 30 years? And all the same we grin at other post-Soviet republics.

                  I really have nothing to do with it. And it's always like laughing, "It's good that your neighbor's home is dead."
          4. Greg Miller
            Greg Miller 23 October 2019 18: 13
            0
            10 years ago, no one even allowed the possibility of installing Chinese engines on our ships ... with such a pace of development of Russia, we will survive to Chinese used ships ...
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 23 October 2019 18: 14
              +1
              Quote: Greg Miller
              10 years ago, no one even allowed the possibility of installing Chinese engines on our ships ...

              Put Ukrainian?
            2. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 23 October 2019 19: 27
              +2
              Quote: Greg Miller
              10 years ago, no one even allowed the possibility of installing Chinese engines on our ships.

              So what about the Chinese, the ships are theirs, but they are needed, time will pass and theirs will appear, not to wait for their engines to appear in the right amount. And they will appear. Yes, the whole world also builds the same way. After all, we are building ships, so we won’t reach B / U.
            3. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 23 October 2019 20: 14
              +1
              Quote: Greg Miller
              10 years ago no one even allowed the possibility of installing Chinese engines on our ships

              Because they were preparing to put the German. smile
              The worst thing is that the domestic ship diesel engine "in the rough" has long been there. But he is not of interest to either the plant or the Navy. The plant does not want to bring it to mind, because the requirements of the fleet are tough, and the volume of the order is small - and it is easier and more profitable for the plant to drive the shaft for Russian Railways. And the fleet is not interested in it, because the plant frankly gave up on fine-tuning (in the first 20380, even after five years of fine-tuning, there were accidents up to fires) and offers an engine in the style of "take what is, there will be no other."
              1. Rzzz
                Rzzz 23 October 2019 21: 48
                +1
                Quote: Alexey RA
                The plant does not want to bring it to mind, because

                Recently there was an exhibition Neva-2019. I there at the stand of the Kolomna plant asked about marine engines. I was shown a model of a v-shaped 16-cylinder monster with two turbochargers and with a capacity of about 3000 kW. I asked, is there anything simpler? I need a power of 1100, in-line for 6 cylinders (for less vibration and generally simpler repairs) with less supercharging from one turbocharger (longer service life and cheaper repairs), well, and many other qualities of a classic marine diesel engine.
                The young man at the stand didn’t understand me at all, he looked like a fool. How they have such a cool engine, but I need some kind of primitivism. In his eyes, super cars with the v16 Biturbo shone directly.
            4. Rzzz
              Rzzz 23 October 2019 20: 15
              +2
              In 2010, the workshops of the Dvigatel Revolyutsii plant in Nizhny Novgorod were demolished. The shipyard has had a hard time with an excellent old line of 36/45 marine engines and a new 22/28 line is ready for production, which would perfectly replace the Wårtsilå engines, which are now used everywhere, on small transport vessels. The enterprise worked, the demand, although small, was stable. Suddenly, the leadership changed and production was stopped. It is believed that this was the lobby. How Renault shut down the Ikarus plant in Hungary.
              And now the same Wårtsilå has transferred production to China. The mechanics on the steamboats begin to recall abusive words.
              Now, when the law on import substitution came out, everyone began to think sharply, but with what, in fact, import substitution?

              Quote: Spade
              Put Ukrainian?

              By the way, yes. There was also "Yuzhdizelmash" in the city of Tokmak. Produced a 12/14 line with a capacity of up to 100 l / s. The plant has long been commissioned into ferrous metal, and now WeiChai is replacing these engines
              1. Greg Miller
                Greg Miller 23 October 2019 21: 04
                +2
                I will answer immediately to all about German, Chinese, etc. diesel ...
                For 20 years, the pseudo-patriots ruling in Russia have been telling us that all this devastation, which deprived us of the fleet and, in general, most of the military-industrial complex, is all due to the era of Yeltsin's rule, but at the same time it was they who built the Yeltsin Center. Over the 20 years that have passed from 1945 to 1965, the half-destroyed USSR launched the FIRST satellite into space, the world's first man into space and the first man into outer space ... About a country completely rebuilt after the war, from absolute zero I don't even want to talk about the built nuclear industry. And what was the USSR unable to achieve and what could the Russian Federation achieve in 20 years? Twenty years after the beginning of "stability", 20 dollar billionaires appeared in the Russian Federation, fighters of "Alpha" and "Vympel" began to rob banks, officials with foreign citizenship appeared, colonel-billionaires appeared in the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB, and so on. All this was not even when Yeltsin was drunk !!! It becomes scary from what awaits Russia in this era of "stability", if it does not change, of course ...
                1. bukhach
                  bukhach 23 October 2019 23: 05
                  0
                  You reduce your pathos, you hurt your eyes. Under Yeltsin, it wasn’t exactly like that, there was darkness and hopeless silence in all cities and towns, and not even quiet shooting. And the achievements of the post-war USSR undoubtedly cause respect. you yourself know the bill and now suggest that the people tighten their belts to achieve something so that he doesn’t switch over to bread and water, but at least he will have to refuse the car, so they will take you to hell. Some people curse the authorities from the lack of jamon , from raising the retirement age they stand on their hind legs. But under the Soviet regime, it was not immediately and not everyone began to pay pensions, and I didn’t hear any protests, I’m silent about the absence of normal grubs.
      3. Ros 56
        Ros 56 23 October 2019 16: 43
        0
        Sergey, shame and raguli, the concepts disjoint from the word at all. request hi
    2. den3080
      den3080 23 October 2019 18: 48
      +2
      Quote: Honest Citizen
      For what they rode, they got it ...

      The Chinese comrades did not understand. The point here is not in the miserable old wardrobe, although those involved in this peer-mog and sawed a little pennies (without this in any way)
      But the main point of the action was ... there are two of them:
      1. Lick the ass owner.
      2. Show by oath ... to the rocks: scho: America from us
      The Chinese can never understand this, the more they have already bought in 404 everything they could and managed (technical documentation, technology, people).
    3. cost
      cost 24 October 2019 06: 33
      +2

      Boat USCGC Cushing TTX:
      The vessel has a full water tonnage of 170,9 tons. Its length is 33.52 meters. Length with aft platform - 34.44 meters. The greatest width is 6,4 meters. The largest draft is 2,13 meters. Height - 16,7 meters.

      The boat can reach speeds of up to 29,5 knots. The nominal transfer rate is 18 nodes. Speed ​​of economic progress 12 knots. Slowest patrol speed: 10 nodes. Minimum speed (on 2's DG): 9 nodes. Cruising range with 90% fuel and lubricants reserves: 2307 miles. Cruising Range: 2058 miles

      The ship may contain a crew of 16 people. The autonomy of the boat is 5 days. It is limited by food supplies, but can be increased.

      Fuel capacity (95%): 35223 liters.

      Water supply: 3558 liters (replenished with desalination plant).

      Engine oil reserve: 412 liters.

      Armament: 25-mm automatic artillery mount Bushmaster Mk 38 Mod 0 2-4 and 12,7-mm machine guns M2NV.
  2. Magic archer
    Magic archer 23 October 2019 14: 44
    +3
    In less than 30 years, not only industry but also brains must be destroyed, this talent is needed ... The whole country is for sale ...
    1. Proton
      Proton 23 October 2019 14: 51
      +9
      Paraphrasing the general from the National Fishing Features “If you look west for a long time, you can become a fool” laughing
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 23 October 2019 15: 22
      +2
      Quote: Magic Archer
      but also brains, this talent is needed ..

      And there were brains and talent was, but ..... everything went into a flat corkscrew from which rarely anyone gets out.
      1. Leopold
        Leopold 23 October 2019 20: 06
        +2
        Vlad hi Not so simple. "Don't be in a hurry, kids, just give you a time limit. You will have a squirrel and a whistle." Classic, however. Patience, my friend, patience. Though sometimes it ends for me.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 23 October 2019 21: 25
          +2
          Quote: Leopold
          patience, my friend, patience. At least sometimes it ends with me.

          Well, yes, "Patience and work, they will grind everything." Good formula.
          1. Leopold
            Leopold 23 October 2019 21: 34
            +2
            From! Correct wording. By the way, the "flat corkscrew" is included in the mandatory aerobatics program. I don’t know about the pilots, but I do it regularly. Women, sir! As Igor Mamenko said: - They need liquid, but "dry" fuel. I agree with him.
  3. Livonetc
    Livonetc 23 October 2019 14: 49
    +4
    That's strange Chinese.
    They don’t understand.
    It’s necessary to build the cruiser, and not to take the money in your pockets.
    And here is the honey theme Freebie.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 23 October 2019 15: 24
      +1
      Quote: Livonetc
      It’s necessary to build the cruiser, and not to take the money in your pockets.
      And here is the honey theme Freebie.

      Yes ! Soviet jokes were based on real facts.
  4. Vadim02rus
    Vadim02rus 23 October 2019 14: 49
    +11
    That's not true at all. Not in Ukraine, but in the USSR.
  5. Well done
    Well done 23 October 2019 14: 50
    +4
    Already the Chinese have taken root over the non-profit! Oh, for some reason I’m not funny.
    1. Andrey Chistyakov
      Andrey Chistyakov 23 October 2019 15: 05
      0
      Quote: Welldone
      Already the Chinese have taken root over the non-profit! Oh, for some reason I’m not funny.

      Well yes. After May 2, 2014, where to laugh.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 23 October 2019 15: 28
      +4
      Quote: Welldone
      Oh, for some reason I’m not funny.

      So how many lived together in sorrow and in joy. I can’t gloat and laugh.
    3. demo
      demo 23 October 2019 15: 32
      +2
      And I'm not having fun.
  6. Alien From
    Alien From 23 October 2019 14: 55
    -3
    The industry ..... drowned .........
  7. Baloo
    Baloo 23 October 2019 14: 57
    +1
    KVN, KVN in the 95th quarter will soon move smoothly into the carnival. Now there are excursions to the Chernobyl zone. The Ukrainian Navy will dominate the Black Sea, a couple of hundred more of these pelvis and all, the Russian Black Sea Fleet will simply have nowhere to go by sea. Then ....
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 23 October 2019 15: 38
      +2
      Quote: Balu
      KVN, KVN in the 95 quarter will soon move smoothly into the carnival. Now there are excursions to the Chernobyl zone. Ukrainian Navy will dominate the Black Sea, a couple of hundred more such pelvis and all

      This is all true the rulers of Ukraine and especially the throaty mass media are well-traveled by the people. I do not want to gloat and insult, because among us there are many participants from Ukraine, normal Soviet and post-Soviet people, they look in silence, but they can’t even answer us, because you can’t say anything, but they are offended by their rulers. Maybe when everything falls into place.
  8. Avior
    Avior 23 October 2019 15: 00
    +1
    First of all, this perplexity is due to the fact that Ukraine, it would seem, has enough of its own capacities to build boats of this class.

    Why are you surprised?
    They give it for free. For free and sweet vinegar.
    Or in China differently?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 23 October 2019 15: 40
      +1
      Quote: Avior
      Or in China differently?

      Definitely. They will buy, steal, but they will not be dishonored.
      1. Avior
        Avior 23 October 2019 16: 35
        +2
        Come on.
        Nobody refuses freebies
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 23 October 2019 17: 39
          +1
          Good. How many Chinese are in the ranks of decommissioned American boats?
          1. Avior
            Avior 23 October 2019 17: 45
            0
            And how much did they offer them?
            It’s hard to refuse what no one has offered
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 23 October 2019 17: 51
              +1
              Quote: Avior
              And how much did they offer them?

              I didn’t ask. But they could. Given that China and the US were virtually allies in the Cold War
              1. Avior
                Avior 23 October 2019 21: 10
                +1
                See how simple it is. how much was offered, so much is smile
              2. Avior
                Avior 23 October 2019 21: 20
                +2
                Given that China and the US were virtually allies in the Cold War

                Such allies that only in 1979 established diplomatic relations.
                And before that, the last Chinese warnings were dispensed with.
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 23 October 2019 20: 16
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            Good. How many Chinese are in the ranks of decommissioned American boats?

            Do we consider all of China, or just continental? wink
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 23 October 2019 20: 18
              -1
              Quote: Alexey RA
              or just continental?

              laughing
    2. Naval
      Naval 23 October 2019 16: 34
      +2
      Duck, not quite a freebie, was canned, restored, trained two crews, and transported from the Ukrainian budget, and if you add delegations' trips and kickbacks here, a couple of lemons of greens for each, at a minimum.
      1. Avior
        Avior 23 October 2019 16: 38
        +1
        Do not quite understand what kind of kickbacks? Who and for what?
        In any case, much cheaper than doing it yourself.
        But the boats are good, not Gyurza.
        Not enough for the ocean, but just right for the sea
        1. Naval
          Naval 23 October 2019 16: 46
          +1
          kickbacks is when you write two, but three came to mind laughing
          But seriously, then in the repair sheet you indicate one amount of work, it is calculated and billed. but something else is being done, the difference is divided as agreed in each specific situation
          1. Avior
            Avior 23 October 2019 16: 48
            +2
            With the Americans on the state program? I doubt it.
            1. Naval
              Naval 23 October 2019 17: 06
              +2
              They gave a decommissioned boat, that's all for the state program, and everything else is paid from the budget of Ukraine, that is, it is the customer. Performers are private shipyards. By the way, in bourgeois shipping companies, where the owners consider their money well, the superintendent, who oversees the repair of the vessel in the shipyard, if he does not scratch himself for a new boomer, considers the repair unsuccessful laughing And here is the budget, why be shy, a common pocket
              1. Avior
                Avior 23 October 2019 17: 13
                +2
                What about the rest?
                They didn’t do the modernization, they transferred the light maintenance.
                The habit is for sure according to the state program and at fixed prices
                1. Naval
                  Naval 23 October 2019 17: 39
                  +1
                  I like your optimism, and faith in a brighter future. hi
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 23 October 2019 17: 48
                    0
                    And what does a bright future have to do with it?
                    It's not about that.
                    Nobody has canceled Okama's razor.
            2. Antares
              Antares 23 October 2019 22: 36
              +1
              Quote: Avior
              With the Americans on the state program? I doubt it.

              there, for the first time, the practice of transferring for free + payment of training and equipment from that American aid money was applied.
              Not a dollar passed through the pockets of others. (Well, if only in the United States through other channels)
              I looked at the fleet base (NISMF-I think on Topwar everyone knows what it is)
              found what was offered earlier

              but while stopped on these boats, they need more (and cheaper)
              of course there’s even a base
              USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) This is the last non-nuclear aircraft carrier built for the US Navy.
              bred in 2007 (half a century of life)

              USS Forrestal (CV-59) has already been recycled
              there is anything but old or purely American (the same Ticonderoga, landing ships, etc.)
              or for museums.
              The decision was made on the principle - stretch the legs on clothes.
  9. 7,62x54
    7,62x54 23 October 2019 15: 05
    +5
    What do they write about the purchase by Russia of a batch of corn in China?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 23 October 2019 15: 40
      +1
      Well, what can I write? Another industry in which Ukraine crashed.
    2. novel66
      novel66 23 October 2019 15: 49
      -2
      and here it is not necessary here! nothing at all ... almost ..
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 23 October 2019 15: 55
        +1
        You may not be aware, but An-2 on the territory of the RSFSR ceased to be produced in 77
        1. 7,62x54
          7,62x54 23 October 2019 16: 03
          0
          And for almost 30 years of independence they did not create their own
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 23 October 2019 16: 19
            +2
            Quote: 7,62x54
            And for almost 30 years of independence they did not create their own

            Yeah. And bananas also did not learn to grow. Together with coffee.

            But we have an excuse. We fully hoped for sanity in Ukraine. Investing big money in their aviation industry.
            1. 7,62x54
              7,62x54 23 October 2019 16: 32
              0
              I made fun, thanks.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 23 October 2019 17: 33
                0
                Not at all. It's nice to see such a sense of humor - I sat in a puddle and laughs.
                1. 7,62x54
                  7,62x54 23 October 2019 17: 50
                  -2
                  Waiting for you narrow-minded, hope to sit, sprinkle on shoulder straps.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 23 October 2019 17: 53
                    +1
                    Quote: 7,62x54
                    Waiting for you narrow-minded, hope to sit, sprinkle on shoulder straps.

                    I always said, as soon as some arguments run out, they immediately turn to the individual. And then the moderators knock. And I get warnings ... but I'm already a scientist, I do not succumb to provocations ...
            2. Avior
              Avior 23 October 2019 16: 49
              +2
              And what side is Ukraine here?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 23 October 2019 17: 38
                0
                Quote: Avior
                And what side is Ukraine here?

                And who did we design and manufacture aircraft of this type in the USSR?
                For the RSFSR, the smallest transport was the IL-76
                1. Avior
                  Avior 24 October 2019 06: 50
                  +1
                  OKB-153 for civil and transport aircraft at the Chkalov Novosibirsk Aviation Plant. Oleg Konstantinovich Antonov became its chief designer. The OKB's first task was the agricultural aircraft SHA-1, later renamed An-2

                  After the OKB-153 moved to Ukraine, such aircraft were no longer developed.
                  The last such aircraft in Ukraine was launched in 1963. In Russia - in 1971.
                  It is not clear how you fastened Ukraine here.
                  Single-engine propeller aircraft were made only by Yakovlev, if I'm not mistaken
        2. Avior
          Avior 23 October 2019 16: 39
          +2
          Actually in 1971.
          Then the Poles did
  10. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 23 October 2019 15: 12
    +2
    Ukraine at one time had a Black Sea shipyard, which allowed building cruisers. Now they got involved in it
    And not one shipyard, and not only the cruisers were built, but your first Chinese aircraft carrier also left these shipyards. There was a power, but what remains?
    1. novel66
      novel66 23 October 2019 15: 51
      0
      the song ... remained ...
  11. maidan.izrailovich
    maidan.izrailovich 23 October 2019 15: 36
    +2
    The entire powerful industry created in the Ukrainian SSR was created by the multinational Soviet people. And the main role in this was played by the Russian people. The rejection of all Russian in Ukraine, automatically entailed the collapse of industry.
  12. Igoresha
    Igoresha 23 October 2019 15: 40
    0
    Well, right, in the Belgorod hotel hang Zhytomyr boilers of 2015 release. What is this talking about? About Industrial Crash
    1. Rzzz
      Rzzz 23 October 2019 20: 30
      +3
      Quote: Igoresha
      What does this mean?

      Only that they are cheaper. Nothing more.
  13. Langf
    Langf 23 October 2019 15: 41
    +1
    And why should they, Blakitnym, bother about the loss of the shipbuilding industry, as well as other ruined industries? For people not from labor, dreamers-freeloaders and “progressive” Nazis, among daily “gilakel” and stable vandals, the word “industry” has absolutely no connotation - it is beyond the understanding of the emotional cattle run wild from impunity. All values ​​are "greenery", heritage is sorrow for sadists, the future is a flat globe, and the industry is something like a murky reality between the "occupied" Crimea and the dying Donbass, which is not feeding.
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. cheburator
    cheburator 23 October 2019 16: 14
    -2
    It's simple! Disposal of these rusty vessels costs money, it is more profitable for lamers to "give" them, and then the bent Khokhloins will pay them for the maintenance of this trash. You look, they will get another loan, they still have nothing to return except the territory. So they are selling themselves, their Khokhlostan, and for the future several generations of their Khokhloduriks, who will be forever "grateful" to them for this! Lard khokhloine, lard! We are Russians, God is with us!
  16. Old Horseradish
    Old Horseradish 23 October 2019 16: 59
    +2
    Zombies, do not gloat over Ukraine. Chinese writers write about Russia even worse.
  17. Alexey from Perm
    Alexey from Perm 23 October 2019 18: 34
    +4
    But in China, they do not comment with bewilderment at the news that Russia wants to purchase Chinese versions of AN2?
  18. Spring fluff
    Spring fluff 23 October 2019 19: 06
    0
    About boats is a separate topic. Need no need, gift or money. This must be understood. But why Ukraine cruiser? What tasks can they solve for her and at what cost? Who else and in what fleet owns this theater?
  19. APASUS
    APASUS 23 October 2019 19: 16
    +3
    Sagged such a country!

    Nikolaev, the end of the 80s of the twentieth century.

    Today Odessa .................................
  20. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 23 October 2019 20: 55
    +1
    Wah! Just Wah! .. how strained the supply of boats. And I just observe the tremendous bubbling of liquids in all respects devoted to this fateful event.
    All that characteristically notified, all reported. All this caused a homeric laughter ... And jokes of a joke.
    Once again, the steamboats may well deliver many sorrows. Ukraine is not under sanctions, rather the opposite. To upgrade them if necessary, I do not see the slightest problem at all. What comrades must assume and will do in the near future.
    Install weapons, etc. .... I do not see any particular problems. Recycle barbets and foundations ... Everything is solvable. I think people have been thinking about this for a long time. You should not consider them round ..... There is not a tower gun in three hundred millimeters to digest caliber ....
  21. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 23 October 2019 21: 23
    +2
    Quote: Alexey RA
    The worst thing is that the domestic ship diesel engine "in the rough" has long been there.

    I have been in the fleets since 1964, and since then we have had problems with marine engines. We did good steam, but the diesel problem. There was a way out, the ships were bought in the CMEA countries, and the navy was deprived of it, but still they were spinning, they came up with something but the fleet was. (turbines do not count, only diesel)
  22. Bear040
    Bear040 23 October 2019 22: 09
    +2
    Shipyards were in the USSR, and not in Ukraine! Ukraine has not built a single cruiser, and Vladimir the Great cannot even build a corvette ...
  23. Antares
    Antares 23 October 2019 22: 47
    +2
    comments in style - the cow completely died from the neighbor.
    I am especially glad that they pissed away "such a country" and photos from the times of the USSR.
    When Mriy is credited with the Russian Federation or the USSR, the fact that Ukraine retained a flying and working copy is not taken into account (such as a common merit and Ukraine has nothing to do with it). But in the collapse of Soviet industry, only Ukraine is to blame. In the Russian Federation, this was not spawn. Ukraine alone was ruining a powerful shipbuilding industry. Ships of the first rank above the surface apparently in the Russian Federation rivet like pies. Unlike Ukraine.
    And this fashion is to compare the economies of Ukraine and the Russian Federation. Not well, if Ukraine is an example, then this is cool. There is something to strive for. And when compared with equal economies ... then something does not stick in the economy either.
    Well, the United States gave the ship itself (and bought the rest). It was cheaper than building. (It is difficult for Ukraine to build even a corvette - all subcontractors are not in Ukraine).
    Everyone knows that Ukraine in the USSR is a huge assembly workshop. But only Ukrainians collapsed.
    Not everyone knows that the United States has been offering them for a long time. Ukrainians all turned out to be
    Abandoned f 18 from Canada, from Perry, from the Islands .. (agreed only recently). Trite money and the inability to use.
    And without ships it is impossible. Our economic zone is used as neighbors want (the Russian Federation generally extracts there and does not blow into the mustache), and not for every violator Neptune (who is not ready yet) will be threatened.
    The United States intends to strengthen this particular sector (protection of the economic zone) and not the offensive potential at sea.
  24. Daria Dneprovskaya
    Daria Dneprovskaya 24 October 2019 17: 04
    0
    They don’t look a gift horse in the mouth, there is such a saying. Well, the fact that all unnecessary trash is brought to Ukraine is not an order.