22160 project corvettes will determine goals for Bastion complexes

Mobile coastal missile systems will receive target designation from ships and vessels of the Navy fleet, which will allow hitting enemy ships without revealing their location. New tactics have already been tested in the Black Sea Fleet. This is reported "News".

Modern 22160 project corvettes can direct Bastion coastal missile systems (DBKs) at the enemy, the Defense Ministry said. Ships created using stealth technology are able to monitor enemy ships and transmit the coordinates to missile systems, which, without using their own radars, remain undetected by the enemy. Fast, relatively compact, 94 m long and 1800 t displacement, corvettes are able to stay away from the coast for up to two months and play the role of scouts. According to the military, a bunch of corvettes - a missile system, can carry out surprise attacks that cannot be repelled.

This tactic has already been tested this year on the Black Sea, where the corvette of the 22160 project Vasily Bykov, accompanying American ships, conducted surveillance not only visually, but also with the help of radar and reconnaissance equipment, transmitting coordinates to coastal missile systems, ready to be applied hit.

Currently, the Russian Navy has only two corvettes of the 22160 project - Vasily Bykov and Dmitry Rogachev. Both ships are part of the Black Sea Fleet.

The Ministry of Defense noted that the experience of using the new tactics will be introduced in other Russian fleets.

Comments

[Nycomed]

Everything is clear, they will not use their radar, but after all, at launch their location will still be detected. Or am I misunderstanding something?

[Livonetc]

Detection during the startup phase does not matter.
The retaliatory strike on the launch coordinates will fall on an already empty position.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Nycomed

at startup, their location will still be detected.

Duc ... there will be a principle: shot and gang! It may take much less time for this than: 1. Radar detection; 2. definition (identification); 3 target designation ...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Nycomed

Everything is clear, they will not use their radar, but after all, at launch their location will still be detected.

You still ask - how to ensure the stealth of the corvette during reconnaissance and the issuance of the command.
Enchanting picture: an invisible corvette shining on the enemy radar and actively exchanging information with the shore.

[hrych]

To begin with, the Bastion shoots over the horizon and the target itself does not see. Secondly, it doesn’t see the launch and flight of a rocket until it jumps out of the horizon, and this is a second. The bastion with the supersonic Onyx and the subsonic Harpoon of the adversary gives Bykov a chance to fight back and not get an answer. The helicopter can also raise, expanding the radio horizon and UAVs. Therefore, the expediency for the work of the gunner is fully justified. Well, the radar still works in a passive mode and may not shine itself, and the transmission of information to the strike complex via a satellite channel with a short signal creates the enemy’s electronic warfare. Even Bykov has radio suppression systems and disrupting the systems of the adversary again helps Onyx get on board with impunity.

[Marconi41]

Not to say that a breakthrough, but the news is good.

[Alien From]

Will be like a swan, cancer and pike !!!

[Pashhenko Nikolay]

And it would not be bad for Bastion to have its own reconnaissance means in the form of drones. You can’t block all directions with corvettes. Especially considering their number.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay

And it would not be bad for Bastion to have its own intelligence in the form of drones.

This is a good idea! By the way, "variations" are also possible: manned AWACS helicopters, "remotely controlled" boats ("drones") ...

[keleg]

Outposts are already flying. But their range for the entire Black Sea is not enough.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: keleg

Outposts are already flying. But their range for the entire Black Sea is not enough.

Well ... on "Outposts", life, does not end!

[timokhin-aa]

Have you chewed thousands of times for Outposts, how much can you rave already?

[Zhan]

But can a corvette be hit? However, if full-scale hostilities begin, everything that works and flies will be launched and launched. But this tactic will be good only with an initial strike from an ambush. And then extras will go.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

The news is, to put it mildly, delusional. Bastions should be able to do it anyway, and they know how to get an external control center, they knew how to do this in the USSR in the 60s. It's just that no one knows what to do with the flawed 22160, and it seems that a "bright" thought came to someone's head - let's say that they will direct anti-ship missiles ... will handle 100500 times better

[Livonetc]

Like version.
The advantage of target designation of a corvette in front of a helicopter can be around-the-clock presence in the required square and all-weather.
And the news is not in the originality of the target designation method, but in working out the corresponding interaction with the corvette.
And expanding the scope of the underutilized resource that is in operation will not be superfluous.

[tlauicol]

MO is trying to make a good face with a bad game

[Livonetc]

If you remember, the construction of such ships was a necessary measure for a number of circumstances.
In particular, due to the lack of the possibility of producing engines for more serious warships.
And the restrictions imposed by the treaty and medium-range missiles.
What is the fault of the Ministry of Defense that the infrastructure of military shipbuilding in the USSR was distributed across the territory of the USSR.
MO couldn’t provide a budget for the rapid development of the defense industry in all necessary areas.
And at the moment, to use the maximum of all available resources is quite rational.

[timokhin-aa]

This trough and serious ships have ONE and SAME ENGINES.

Namely Kolomenskie 16Д49.

Tell tales in kindergarten.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

The news is, to put it mildly, delusional. Bastions should be able to do it anyway, and they know how to get an external control center, they knew how to do this in the USSR in the 60s. It's just that no one knows what to do with the flawed 22160, and it seems that a "bright" thought came to someone's head - let's say that they will direct anti-ship missiles ... will handle 100500 times better

Yes, the namesake also didn’t understand what it was all about ... but then such an idea came up, and if these corvettes transmit the control units on-line, and increasing the radius of detection of targets, at the border of the detection area of ​​ground-based radars of the Bastion?

[bk316]

The news, to say the least, is crazy.

Delusional not delusional I will not say, but this is exactly what some very much wanted in VO: a step in building a network-centric combat system. In such a target designation system any accessible means of destruction must be able to issue любые detection tools.
Actually, this is the point: multiple network duplication of information and flow control makes the system mega-stable.

I don’t even enter into the number of ardent supporters of network-centric models, because by virtue of my profession I understand the associated problems, but if I decided to to go then you have to go ....

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

This is a step in place, because, I repeat, our RCCs were able to receive external control systems in the 60 of the last century. Since it was originally intended to hit targets at ranges excluding guidance from the ship.
To date, the introduction of network centric would be missile guidance in flight

[Magic archer]

This is affected by the lack of reconnaissance and guidance means. With AWACS, we are also not so hot (I mean their mass), so this is a necessary measure, and the explanation of the situation is just an excuse

[ioan-e]

22160 project corvettes will determine goals for Bastion complexes

This is very good, but where are the weapons systems that should be used from containers (modules) for this type of ship?

[donavi49]

A multi-functional sports complex with a basketball court and a grandstand has already been completed at the head . It is converted into a banquet hall.

On the head now, only if you break it is possible to put a container. I don’t know about others.

[MrFox]

What is the stealth when using your own radar corvette?

[keleg]

ECO, passive radar mode, "Orlans" on board.

[Alexey from Perm]

you might think he is not visible at the same time ...

[Pavel57]

Use as a watch ship. Why not?

[Avior]

The patrol ship must have developed self-defense capabilities.
And 22160 has a 76 mm gun and MANPADS on board.

[keleg]

A serious air defense system can be thrust only onto a frigate-sized ship and it is very expensive.
Here another path is chosen - electronic warfare and the minimum size.

[Avior]

It is the size between a corvette and a frigate. And there is no sight

[timokhin-aa]

He xnumx tons, what is the minimum size?

[Old26]

Quote: Livonetc

Detection during the startup phase does not matter.
The retaliatory strike on the launch coordinates will fall on an already empty position.

Detection just allows you to prepare for the interception. Especially if the rocket goes along a high-altitude path

[Alexey RA]

Quote from rudolf

Lord, is it really possible for these patrol imperfections to finally find the tasks? Long thought, however.

C'mon, they previously planned to base them on the Ka-52 with anti-ship missiles.

[keleg]

Do you think that a stealth with a good radar was made on it purely by chance and now you’ve figured out where to use these stealth with a radar? :-)

[timokhin-aa]

You are responding to a citizen who naturally fell for it, as he says to "patrolmen" and spammed them with stupid praises throughout the Internet.

[tlauicol]

But what about the over-the-horizon radars that peak, drive the American sailors crazy? MO is now completely confused and will destroy the entire official mythology

[Avior]

Intelligence with a detection range of 30-40 km is something.
Well, maybe he could transfer the coordinates, they knew how to do it half a century ago, and so what?
How will this help this "corvette"?
Why did this 22160, a former patrol ship in the far zone, become a corvette?
And if he suddenly finds himself on his own head an enemy with capabilities a little more than that of the Ukrainian boat Gyurz, will he have time to convey the coordinates, is that another question?
For he will immediately receive a pair of anti-aircraft, and even a harpoon from the enemy and lose interest in the further transfer of information.
In my opinion, this is another notion of what to occupy 22160, which were built to fight the Somali pirates, but so far completed, the situation has changed. Now they’re thinking what to apply ....

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Avior

Why did this 22160, a former patrol ship in the far zone, become a corvette?

But because patrol ships are the FSB. And the Navy has its own classification.
And now the Navy, to which Commander-in-Chief Chirkov ordered the ships of the project originally intended for the FSB, frantically tries to cram the "alien" ship into its classification.

Quote: Avior

And if he suddenly finds himself on his own head an enemy with capabilities a little more than that of the Ukrainian boat Gyurz, will he have time to convey the coordinates, is that another question?

You still ask - will he even have time to find anyone before he is struck?
Well this is a "dove of peace": no air defense, no PLO, no modules. There is a cannon, a couple of machine guns, a helicopter, a GAS for detecting PDSS, empty spaces for modules and two months of autonomy. A normal PSKR for the FSB, which has nothing to do in the Navy.

[Avior]

Two months of autonomy and a place for a hospital.
What should he do in the FSB?
No, well, you can call it a corvette, it can stand the paper, only it cannot fulfill the function of a corvette.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Avior

Two months of autonomy and a place for a hospital.
What should he do in the FSB?

The faces have just the autonomy and living conditions of the crew in the first place. Take, for example, their PSKR Project 22460 - the same 60 days of autonomy.
And most importantly, the one under whom Pr. 22160 was created is clearly and clearly visible from the official list of tasks to be solved:

According to the demonstration materials of Zelenodolsky NW, presented at the Army-2016 and IMDS-2017, as well as data from the OSK website, the main tasks of PC 22160 are:
- borderline-patrol service for the protection of territorial waters;
- patrolling the 200-mile special economic zone in neutral and territorial waters;
- suppression of smuggling and piracy;
- Search and assistance to victims of maritime disasters;
- environmental monitoring of the environment;
- in wartime:
guarding ships and vessels at the transition by sea, protecting naval bases and water areas in order to warn of an attack by various enemy forces and equipment.

Now compare this with the problems of the "face" pr.22460:

PSKR of the 22460 project are intended for the protection of the state border, territorial waters, the continental shelf, for emergency rescue operations, as well as for environmental monitoring and liquidation of the consequences of natural disasters. Along with border protection, ships of this class may include operations to combat terrorism and maritime piracy.

By the way, there was a funny infa on 22160 on the Balancer:

Here the forty on the tail brought the results of 20385 under two engines (that is, in terms of power, a complete analogue of the 22160 installation), they got a speed higher than that of 22160, and this, mind you, with a much larger displacement! What kind of corps did such a gloomy collective genius of the "Northern Bureau" give birth to !?

http://www.balancer.ru/g/p7598545
Thanks for the link uv. mina030.

[Avior]

Only 22460 is three times less.
Space is not for the crew, but for additional services. To take it, you can, of course, organize a mini golf course
And what is surprising, 22160 is not a warship, the hull for another was optimized for the placement of various services needed in the distant seas, marines, a hospital, salvaged supplies for their feeding and watering, etc.

[garri-lin]

In our time, it is necessary that "Everyone can do harm to everyone. In real time. This will be news. When the troops work. Then it will be possible to rejoice."

[Alexey-74]

In the event of a conflict, corvettes will be destroyed first, and then what?

[Ros 56]

A very clever idea, cackled over the vorog and washed off quickly. A good idea, it is advisable to practice in conditions close to combat.

[Lapunevsky]

And if before that the vorogs cawed along the corvette and drowned, the Bastion turns blind. How will you crave?

[Ros 56]

Well, yes, I forgot that all ships, including corvettes, will be anchored and represent immobile targets. Then of course, I do not argue, you are right, as my right ... and even more to the right.

[timokhin-aa]

It cannot slow down slowly, even if your idea was realistic.

[Galleon]

The detection capabilities of that corvette are not that outstanding, but at 30-35 km it will detect the target. The coordinates will be transmitted. But what is the likelihood that he himself will not be in the firing sector of "Bastion" and will not rake his own anti-ship missiles under distribution? And the probability of being hit by this "friendly fire", purely mathematically, will be at least 0,25, but in practice (based on the difference probability of the gunner's position relative to the target) it will be about 0,4. But it cannot be that they do not think about it ...

[Revival]

As I understand it, "foreign" stealth is a fiction; we can see it as in the daytime, but we still have a full stealth ship?
Strange just how they can not notice the ship creeping nearby and directing other missiles.

[Sergey Pavlov]

This design fiasco, which showed a lack of speed of three knots at the factory sea trials with minimal excitement, would not be called fast.

[Lapunevsky]

That is - the corvettes will sink and the Bastions will go blind?

[petrol cutter]

* This tactic has already been worked out this year in the Black Sea, where the corvette of project 22160 "Vasily Bykov", accompanying the American ships, conducted observation not only visually, but also with the help of radar and reconnaissance equipment, transmitting coordinates to coastal missile systems ready for strike. *
Well, the devil knows him. I am not a military man. To date.
But if something worked, then probably it has the right to life?! ..
The military, they are so military that they do not consider it necessary to report to everyone and everyone what and how.
Let’s say we built a ship. Then move on, sorry. Not admitted. Know what and how. It will be necessary, call.
And this is apparently correct.

[Vladimir1155]

a wise and balanced decision instead of being given obsolete destroyers in the sense of defense of the coast = battleships, inconspicuous missile systems and inconspicuous corvettes .....

[Devil13]

Such inconspicuous, when exchanging data and working radar, that right now I will tear my stomach from laughter. They are invisible until the first transmission, and the first operation of the radar. So everything is noticeable.

[internal enemy]

Well, at least somehow 22160 will come in handy, why they were built at all, the FSB fleet is being updated faster than the military

[Devil13]

Sumptuously. Those. everything is so bad with sea reconnaissance and space reconnaissance, I understood, but the fundamentals of the Aigis-type information field were not heard at all.
Well, 22160 is simply, in principle, no more than a pelvis with radar, and so weak that you still need visual contact. Yeah.
Shame and shame on such a Navy.

[keleg]

Um, is this "Positive-MK" weak radar? 450 km passive and 150 km active.
Plus UAVs "Orlan" nest on it

[Pavel57]

The task of escorting enemy ships is often enough. Under the conditions of inherent modularity, perhaps air defense modules would be more useful than modules with Uranus.

[keleg]

One F-15E drags, EMNIP more than 20 gbu-39, recently they were attached to them by the GOS and the bomb became anti-ship. The discharge range is up to 90 km. Not a single Corvette (and Frigate) air defense of such a WTO can withstand, it remains to hit only on the carrier ... but long-range missiles and the corresponding radar also do not fit into the corvette. There are REP and stealth - which we see in stock at 22160.

[Devil13]

If there were rap, stealth, gap, gas, 533mm torpedo tubes, an anti-submarine helicopter, there would be no questions for him like a corvette.
Plo and plo. And so there was no meat, laundering the budget.

[cipher]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Quote: Nycomed

at startup, their location will still be detected.

Duc ... there will be a principle: shot and gang! It may take much less time for this than: 1. Radar detection; 2. definition (identification); 3 target designation ...

Probably, some people still think that Americans can offhand by the sound of a shot and missiles with a rocket, as in those distant times of the WILD West))