Military Review

And you Brute? The death of the Soviet "Caesar"

222

Reason not established


The next anniversary of the tragic and mysterious death of the battleship Novorossiysk, formerly the Italian Giulio Cesare (Julius Caesar), is approaching.




On the night of October 29 of 1955 in the Northern Bay of Sevastopol right on the parking lot (barrel number 3) after a strong explosion, the flagship of the Black Sea squadron of the Soviet Navy, the battleship Novorossiysk sank, more than 600 sailors died.

According to the official version, an old German bottom mine exploded under the bottom of the ship, but there are other versions, more or less plausible. This article is another attempt to deal with this terrible secret, as well as pay tribute to the memory of our sailors.





At the moment, the true cause of the death of the battleship has not been disclosed, despite the many publications and discussions of the tragedy in various television programs. For example, the TV channel “Star” in the program “Clue from the Past” also failed to put a final point. Nevertheless, the simulation of several explosions in the laboratory and on the computer made it possible to conclude that the explosion of the bottom mine, which is the main emphasis in the official version, cannot be an explanation for the death of the battleship.

All the bombings of the ships (ours and allies) on German ground mines did not have a case of through breakdown of the hull, as on Novorossiysk. After the war, on 17 on October 1945, the cruiser “Kirov” was blown up on a German bottom mine in the Gulf of Finland. The depth and power of the explosive are close, the explosion also occurred in the area of ​​the bow towers, but the nature of the damage was completely different, the cruiser received a general shell concussion of the ship’s hull, welds seated in places, various mechanisms failed. Novorossiysk also received a through hole while maintaining the operability of mechanisms outside the affected area.

These are fundamental differences refuting the detonation of the Novorossiysk battleship on the bottom mine.

It will be useful to once again emphasize that by the 1955 year all the batteries of the surviving German bottom mines were completely discharged (incapable). No other explosions occurred, although mines were still found before and after the tragedy.

So what if not a bottom mine? Generally not an explosion at the bottom? In various versions of this tragedy, even alien intervention is present, it is difficult to add a fundamentally new here, but there is common sense and obvious facts that need to be connected, and, based on them, look for the only true explanation for the death of the battleship.

During the explosion of the Novorossiysk battleship, we see that almost all of the explosion’s energy rushed up, there were minor deepenings (up to 1,5 meters) at the bottom, but the ship’s hull was pierced through, from the bottom, through steel sheets, to the upper deck, with the explosion blasting into sky.



Could not charge or two charges (two funnels found on the ground under the ship) to cause such catastrophic destruction to the battleship and leave such small traces at the bottom. The dimensions of the funnel during the usual explosion of a ground mine on the ground and damage to the ship are interrelated phenomena, and they should be either equally huge or equally insignificant. In our case, this is not.

The version of the explosion of the 320-mm gun ammunition, as well as the gasoline depots, was refuted initially. The artillery shells and powder charges to them remained intact, this was confirmed by eyewitnesses and a further examination. Warehouses of gasoline were empty for a long time and did not pose a threat to the explosion, especially of such a force. Then what if it is not an accident, not a disturbed and “woken up” old mine, not a fire and explosion in artillery cellars?

It is known that the option of sabotage categorically did not suit our KGB, since it turned out that the intelligence service looked at agents of a foreign power, allowing them to penetrate the main base of the Black Sea fleet. Moreover, at the same time, the image of the entire Soviet Union, and not only the KGB or the leadership of the fleet, in the person of its commander in chief, Nikolai Gerasimovich Kuznetsov, suffered on the whole.

In this regard, I would like to immediately draw a line for all the conversations in the version about the involvement of the Soviet special services themselves in the sabotage to discredit Kuznetsov. This seems completely absurd, at the level of spiteful critics about the "bloody geben".

In general, to discredit or even physically eliminate someone who is objectionable to the Secretary General, the KGB would have had more simple and reliable methods. Nothing prevented Nikita Sergeevich from shifting the priorities of military development, not only to the detriment of the fleet, but also aviation. For example, nothing prevented him from transferring Crimea from the RSFSR to the Ukrainian SSR or imposing corn on crops. It is unlikely that Khrushchev needed a special reason for the removal of Kuznetsov, all the more so when his own special services actually had to destroy the flagship battleship, which is very necessary in that difficult international situation, to destroy many of its sailors.

Yes, the loss of the ship and the great casualties among the personnel for Kuznetsov undoubtedly complicated the situation, but this was already a consequence of the tragedy, and not its cause.

Not only was Admiral Kuznetsov punished, who was dismissed, but Admirals Kalachev, Parkhomenko, Galitsky, Nikolsky and Kulakov were punished, they were demoted in posts and ranks.

It is possible that the official version allowed us to “save face” to our special services, giving Khrushchev an extra reason against Kuznetsov and the fleet as a whole, but it does not explain the true cause of the explosion. The tragedy itself did not happen because of “unacceptable and criminal negligence”, but, as it should be noted, from a cold-blooded and cruel sabotage.

Who blew the battleship Novorossiysk and how?


Speaking of sabotage, they primarily recall the “black prince”, Valerio Borghese, the former commander of the Italian combat swimmers of the 10 flotilla of the IAU, with his belated confessions, in his fanatical desire to take revenge on the Bolsheviks for raising the Soviet flag over the Italian battleship.

It must be assumed that there is as much truth in this as in the accusations that the Soviet special services were involved in undermining their own warship.

Firstly, before the outbreak of the war, the Soviet Union collaborated with Italy. Almost all of the new Soviet destroyers and cruisers were made in one way or another under the influence of Italian projects, the Italian shipbuilding school will be traced in the architecture of Soviet warships for a long time after.

The famous leader “Tashkent” was ordered and purchased from Italy shortly before the attack of Nazi Germany on the USSR. Active hostilities between Italy and the Soviet Union were virtually nonexistent during the war years, and if Borghese was to be hated, the same English as former enemies in naval battles in the Mediterranean Sea, or even Germans who drowned battleship controlled bombs in 1943 Roma, who was going to surrender to Malta.

In addition, former Italian saboteurs were under the scrutiny of both our and foreign special services, it is unlikely that preparations for "revenge" could go unnoticed.

By the way, during the Second World War, Borghese himself was a member of the famous bombing of two British battleships in Alexandria. This is interesting as a comparison to the explosion on the battleship Novorossiysk.

On December 19, Valerio Borghese led the sabotage operations of the Italian Navy's assault unit (1941 MAS flotilla) on British battleships in the port of Alexandria.

The Italian saboteurs, using human torpedoes, entered the guarded port and mined two British battleships, Queen Elizabeth (Queen Elizabeth) and Valiant (Valiant). The transported explosives were fastened under the keel and dumped on the ground under the bottom.

As a result of the sabotage, “Valiant” failed for six months, and “Queen Elizabeth” - for 9 months. Victims were avoided at Valiant, and 8 sailors died on the battleship Queen Elizabeth.

And you Brute? The death of the Soviet "Caesar"


The British caught all the participants in the direct mining of the ships almost immediately, the Italian saboteurs turned into prisoners of war.

These are real wartime facts, and it should be noted that when attaching magnetic mines and installing explosives, the most vulnerable places are selected, such as artillery cellars, the central part of the hull, but not the fore tip.

In the case of the battleship Novorossiysk, a powerful charge was found in the bow, not in the center of the ship, not under the powder cellars, not even under the rudders and propellers. The explanation for this fact is difficult to find, it is not rational for underwater sabotage, since it requires maximum damage with minimum risks, and not maximum problems, with the expenditure of time and energy to obtain the required explosion power.

We must take into account the details that many leave behind the scenes, producing the most time-consuming and fantastic versions in the tragedy of Novorossiysk, considering the most incredible schemes of how an external explosion could cause such monstrous destruction to the ship.

Here is a piece from a flooded barge as a screen for a directed explosion, and a bunch of mines that the Germans thought of leaving from the war, carefully laying a cable for remote detonation from a secret place on the shore along the bottom. Particularly impressive is the towing of tons of explosives from an external raid with a youthful raid of mini-submarines of saboteurs. All this is too long and too troublesome, and most importantly, all this does not explain the strength and nature of the explosion at the battleship.

The version where the Italian "old robbers" allegedly hit a personal vendetta against the USSR fleet also does not hold water. Rather, these are “revelations” for diverting eyes from true customers and performers. To everything else, no one, not even the Italian Navy, would have dragged on such an operation against the USSR at that time, all the more without NATO sanction, without US permission. Only one country at that time could do this without the sanction of NATO and the United States — Great Britain, the former USSR ally in the anti-Hitler coalition.

Now important historical moment that needs to be said. During the Second World War, Malta was the base of the British Navy, being the headquarters for the Mediterranean theater of operations. It was in Malta that the remaining Italian ships came to surrender in the fall of 1943, among which was the Giulio Cesare. In Malta, the battleship stood with the British until 1948, after which it was transferred to the Soviet Union for reparations.



Understanding the causes of the 1955 tragedy of the year, one must not forget the story: the transfer of the battleship of the USSR took place in a sharply aggravated international situation, by the 1948 year the former allies became enemies, the prospect of a new war arose quite realistically. In fact, Winston Churchill’s anti-Soviet speech in Fulton was already heard, and the United States had plans for atomic bombing of Soviet cities. It is very doubtful that the Soviet Union was also wished well in the event of a forced transfer of a strong naval combat unit by reparation.

The Soviet leadership hoped to get one of the new Italian battleships, Littorio or Vittorio Veneto, but the former allies, citing the fact that the Soviet Union was not actively involved in the Mediterranean war, agreed to transfer only the older Giulio Cesare. In other words, the future Novorossiysk was chosen for the transfer of the USSR from the very beginning.

This is important, since the ship had a unique feature with a bow tip in the process of pre-war modernization, in addition, there was time to study the ship in detail and use it against strengthening the Soviet fleet.

Directly before the transfer of the battleship to the Soviet Union, its partial repair was carried out, as was noted, mainly of the electromechanical part. The battleship, the only one of all transmitted Italian ships, was transmitted with full ammunition.

It is known that the transfer and the transition itself to the USSR took place in an extremely nervous environment, rumors of mining and possible sabotage worried the whole crew.

Have you searched for possible explosives after? Yes, they were looking, in addition, the ship from 1949 to 1955 had undergone various repairs and modernization eight times. An explosive device was not detected. There may be several reasons for this, one of them is the insufficiently complete documentation of the ship's drawings up to the intentional distortion of the compartment diagrams, the difficulty of translating from Italian. It should be noted that the professionalism necessary for such a level of sabotage is in the very secrecy of mining, and a high degree of camouflage of the place of charge laying.

To guarantee the exclusion of such a bookmark, it was required not just a selective inspection, but a complete dismantling of the overhead part of the nasal tip, which was not done.

No external detonation would have had the nature of the damage that was at Novorossiysk, would not have caused such damage. It can be argued that the explosion that destroyed the battleship Novorossiysk was internal. Only the features of internal mining could give such a powerful directional explosion.



The internal explosion is also indicated by the testimonies of witnesses who claimed that after the explosion a strong smell of explosives was felt on the ship, which is possible only with an explosion in the air, that is, inside the battleship’s body. It doesn’t even matter how the internal charge was activated, with the explosives already laid down, well-thought-out methods, even one scuba diver could sabotage, while getting the maximum cost and risk.
It was a powerful explosion in the Novorossiysk building that burned all the air in the adjacent space, creating a vacuum. The vacuum created a pressure difference in which gushing streams of water bent the notches of the hole inward. In addition, the flow of water involved bottom sediment.

The most likely place for the bookmark is the junction of the old dreadnought nose with a new nasal tip, which was added during the pre-war modernization of the battleship in Italy. Moreover, the bookmark was as close as possible to the artillery cellars of the bow towers.

Naturally, secret mining was carried out when the battleship was determined for transfer to the Soviet Union. The former allies did not risk anything here, you could always blame everything on the Italian fascists. The alleged explosion during the transition did not take place for several reasons, including due to the precautions taken by the Soviet side, but a dangerous “gift” remained with the ship “on demand”.

Why did they remember the “gift” in the nasal extremity only in October 1955?


The Suez Canal, Egypt, the strengthening of the Soviet Union in this region, which is very important for Great Britain, the direct preparation of our squadron, led by the Novorossiysk, for entering the Mediterranean Sea at an extremely tense political moment. Finally, a lot of time has passed since the transfer of the ship, which would also complicate any accusations and reduce the political risks for the customers of this war crime.

The official version under Khrushchev is almost "he drowned" ... All the materials of the commission investigating the tragedy were classified, most of the materials were completely destroyed. Nikita Sergeyevich hushed up a difficult-to-prove and inconvenient incident, turned arrows on the negligence of Admiral Kuznetsov, and less than six months later, when he arrived at the British "partners" with a visit to Misty Albion, to establish peaceful coexistence with the West.

By the way, gentlemen distinguished themselves there in April 1956 with the cruiser Ordzhonikidze, but this is another story, known as the “Krebb affair”. Here we can only add that, fearing an international scandal, this case was also hushed up, mainly thanks to the British Prime Minister Anthony Eden.

Like this. “And you, Brutus?” - the Soviet steel Caesar could say on a cold night 29 of October 1955 of both the former allies of the anti-Hitler coalition and Khrushchev, who later found an excuse for cutting the ship and the pogrom of the USSR shipbuilding program.

The death of the battleship Novorossiysk is not just sabotage. After the Stalin era, this was a litmus, a watershed in Khrushchev’s inhibition of the development of a powerful ocean fleet and in flirting with socialism flirting with a deadly enemy in the hope of “peaceful coexistence” with an antagonist, antipode, ready for any crime.
Author:
Photos used:
youtube.com, vkerchi.com.ua, ruread.net, arsenal-info.ru, kreiser.unoforum.pro, forum.katera.ru
222 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 26 October 2019 18: 20
    +23
    Very interesting version. At least, more or less reasoned. The main conclusion is that the sabotage was carried out by the British, with which I agree. Whatever retired Italian combat swimmers would chat in port taverns later, they couldn’t do it on their own, and at the state level no one could give them such an order at that time or provide them with funds.
    1. Kenxnumx
      Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 20: 06
      +6
      In 1955, the Italian swimmers were still quite imagined. In general, they were very serious and trained personnel.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 26 October 2019 20: 15
        +5
        The frames were. There was no one to give them the order.
        1. Kenxnumx
          Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 20: 17
          +1
          Yes, there was someone to give the order. And the technology was also willing. But why. I am lost in conjecture. Mining can most likely
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 26 October 2019 21: 01
            +2
            And who could give the order in defeated Italy and provide all the technical means, primarily delivery vehicles?
            1. Town Hall
              Town Hall 26 October 2019 21: 08
              +1
              It is reliably known that among the crews of Italian bulk carriers flying to the Crimea at that time were special services
            2. vladcub
              vladcub 26 October 2019 21: 19
              +2
              After the war, it was not difficult to get technical means, there would be a desire, but ALL can be found
            3. Captain45
              Captain45 26 October 2019 21: 32
              +10
              Quote: Aviator_
              And who could give the order in defeated Italy and provide all the technical means, primarily delivery vehicles?

              I remember reading a book by G. Gellert "Mafia" about the Italian, more precisely the Sicilian mafia. So he there describes the political situation in Sicily and in general throughout Italy after the war, so there was such a mess there that there can be no question of any order to blow up the transferred battleship. At that time, the political, as they say, the Italian establishment was not at all up to the battleship, they were interested exclusively in the internal political struggle for power. Here they had fun and shot and blew up, using the mafia, but inside the country.
              1. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 26 October 2019 22: 00
                +7
                And I mean the same thing. Then in Italy, the Communists almost came to power.
                1. Town Hall
                  Town Hall 26 October 2019 22: 04
                  0
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  And I mean the same thing. Then in Italy, the Communists almost came to power.

                  In what year did this miracle almost happen?
                  1. Aviator_
                    Aviator_ 26 October 2019 22: 06
                    +5
                    After the war, at the end of the 40's - the beginning of the 50's. The Americans had to fork out well to shake the economic and political situation.
                    1. Town Hall
                      Town Hall 26 October 2019 22: 11
                      0
                      Elections 1948 of the Year
                      (1948)
                      Seggi camera
                      Seggi senato
                      Italian Communist Party
                      126 / 574
                      76 / 343

                      The first line is the lower chamber of Parliament. The second line is the Senate.
                      In your opinion, these numbers are called "almost won"?
          2. Town Hall
            Town Hall 26 October 2019 21: 07
            0
            Quote: Ken71
            Yes, there was someone to give the order. And the technology was also willing. But why. I am lost in conjecture. Mining can most likely

            The Italian sailors took the transfer of the ships of the USSR very painfully and considered it a matter of honor. And the orders were special services, the CIA, Gladio. The Cold War is
            1. seregatara1969
              seregatara1969 26 October 2019 21: 59
              +1
              military sabotage and crime will never emerge in all its glory. all talkers are destroyed immediately
        2. Warrior2015
          Warrior2015 26 October 2019 21: 44
          +3
          Quote: Aviator_
          The frames were. There was no one to give them the order.
          You obviously do not know the situation with Italian society. There, it’s not at all like ours — and the same in the army — there (especially in those years) there were quite large clans, headed by often publicly known figures. And since the Italian fighting swimmers as a whole were part of the personal clan of one prince, on the whole - yes, there was someone to give a personal order. For this, no official order from above was required. Not at all. It's just that someone said something to someone - and that’s all, the wheels spun ...

          And the fact that the "bookmark" could have been made in Malta - so why not? I would even say that the Italians could have put the bookmark back in Italy. They cleverly disguised it (the British really missed it and deliberately "missed it") and thought to smash the lx still at the allies, but then decided to flood it in the Soviet port.
          1. Town Hall
            Town Hall 26 October 2019 21: 56
            0
            Quote: Warrior2015
            You obviously do not know the situation with Italian society. There, it’s not at all like ours — and the same in the army — there (quite especially those years) there were quite large clans

            And which clans in the Italian army are known to you?
    2. YOUR
      YOUR 27 October 2019 03: 29
      +8
      The same opinion. All these are movie tales, such as gathered specialists sadly sat around the fire smoking and passing around a bottle of grappa, brushing away a mean male tear and decided to blow up the ship.
      Without government support, this can only be done in the movies.
      Another question is who is behind this. The article is clearly described as a version. For me it is very believable.
  2. EXPrompt
    EXPrompt 26 October 2019 18: 21
    +6
    It’s a long and dark matter ..
    I think we will never know the truth. 50+ years have passed, but the truth has not surfaced. Chances are unfortunately not enough.
    Unless to invent a time machine and see)))
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 26 October 2019 18: 57
      +6
      Quote: EXPrompt
      It’s a long and dark matter ..
      I think we will never know the truth. 50 + years have passed, though it hasn’t surfaced

      But what about Kursk? it seems that they also hushed up as much as possible, if only there was no war
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 26 October 2019 20: 20
      +10
      Quote: EXPrompt
      It’s a long and dark matter.

      The matter is not very dark, it could have been rebuilt in hot pursuit, but this was not fully done, at least from the fact that a lot of "blunders" not associated with the explosion would pop up. Like being on board before the explosion of the district command, finding soldiers transferred to sailors and arriving the day before the explosion, who were stupidly ditched, removing the senior officer from command (he had a clever idea, to pull the ship to small size by tugboats and put it on the ground.) and so on. But this is a diversion, many people know about it. Who needs sabotage? Khrushchev, GB and "company" is not very, the military also does not need. Here is a symbolic explosion or some kind of message. Specialists in the affairs of "black sabotage" are the British, and their reason and opportunity, most likely, everything was done in Malta. But now it has become history, like Mary "and many other things. And nobody needs it, not before.
  3. Grim Reaper
    Grim Reaper 26 October 2019 18: 28
    +16
    A couple of years ago, I stumbled upon a storage tank of KBS. It is KBS. Date of manufacture 74i. Almost all of Kurva-mother (7pcs out of 8) were able to get a 6.3-volt light bulb for about 20 minutes. Then they died of course, forever. 45 years. Fuck ...
    It's me that batteries / batteries sometimes show a miracle of endurance.
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 26 October 2019 18: 59
      +2
      Quote: Grim Reaper
      Date of manufacture 74

      Perhaps a different manufacturing technology, probably came up with 30 years. In addition, the batteries did not lie in the water
    2. Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat 26 October 2019 19: 03
      +11
      "Kirov" was blown up on the move and the mine exploded not exactly under it, hence the shell concussion and other damage different from those that the "Novorossiysk" received. Besides, what kind of mine exploded under Kirov? what position was she in? The fact is that the Germans had several types of magnetic-acoustic mines and the damage from detonation on them differed. For example, the RMH mine (which is the "accused") was of the "box type" and had a hemispherical recess in the fighting compartment in which the mechanisms and accumulators of the mine were placed, that is, when the mine was in the position of this recess upwards, there could well be a cumulative effect ( up) from the explosion, which destroyed all the decks of the ship. More interesting is the second explosion - which, according to eyewitnesses and records of seismic sensors, occurred after 30 seconds from the first explosion - he made a dent on the port side. How could a mine explode? Well, first of all, German mines, in addition to electric circuits for detonation, had mechanical ones that were triggered by hydrostats, attempts at demining and shifting mines. So, the battleship could easily hook a mine with a chain while "circling" around the barrel and set such a chain of detonation into action. Well, about the "discharged" batteries - about the fact that all the batteries of all German mines by that time were discharged. The check was carried out at the batteries that were in the warehouses, and not in the mines found at the bottom, and even in them, judging by the act, up to 50-60 %% of the charge remained, which supposedly was not enough for an explosion. However, the mines that were at the bottom in a constant temperature environment could well retain more charge in the batteries, which is quite sufficient for an explosion. In the internet there are references to the explosions of bottom mines found by modern "metal seekers" and the death of these "seekers" during detonations, which shows quite efficient mechanical channels of fuses for such mines up to the present time. The "second explosion" is interesting. What was it? The official version is that a "bundle of two mines" exploded. And this can be, since as many as 3 were found near the site of the tragedy! others, similar mines. However, during a survey at the scene of the explosion, the remains of the stern of some small vessel, such as a barge, were found in the funnel. There is a version that a barge with ammunition from the Sevastopol fortress, which the allies drowned in different parts of the Sevastopol bay, when they left Sevastopol, during the civil war, could explode (detonate).
      1. Warrior2015
        Warrior2015 26 October 2019 21: 49
        +5
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        The test was carried out on batteries that were in the warehouses, and not in the mines found at the bottom, and even in them, judging by the act, there was a charge remaining up to 50-60 %%, which was supposedly not enough for an explosion. However, in mines that were at the bottom in a constant temperature environment, it could well have saved more charge in the batteries, quite enough for an explosion.

        I was told by a man - an old Volga river worker - that the last German mine dropped from the air into the Volga (and the Volga is far from the sea) found its victim - a tug that entered the backwater - something around 1955. So they really could not find a "hotel", and the charge could well be enough ...
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 27 October 2019 18: 33
        +2
        "There is a version that a barge with ammunition from the Sevastopol fortress could have detonated" fig knows it, possibly detonation, but after 1920 and 1941 EPRON officers did not check anything there? Once I read a book about the history of EPRON, and it was written that they carefully examined the entire flood in order to put it into action. Although who knows how he was examined. Indeed, since 1944, immediately after the liberation of the city, everything was also examined there, and the mines were overlooked
      3. Per se.
        29 October 2019 11: 59
        0
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        that is, when the mine was in the position of this recess up, there could well be a cumulative effect (up) from the explosion
        Could not, the cumulative jet does not spread in the aquatic environment, moreover, having overcome a dozen meters of the water column from the bottom, breaking through the bottom of the ship, all the steel plates of the hull, with the explosion of the flame into the sky. It is interesting that the mine suddenly found itself in the place where the Novorossiysk had moored ten times earlier, and the battleship Sevastopol 134 times, at different times of the year, but the explosion took place on the night of October 29, 1955, and only under the flagship.

        The Navy monitored a batch of German captured trophy batteries for explosive devices used in German mines of the RMH type, in the amount of 244 pieces, with the production time of 1943-1944 years, showed that after 9 years all 100% of the batteries were not operational and could not lead to action of the M1 explosive device mines RMH.

        In addition, the nature and areas of damage localization received by the battleship "Novorossiysk" are qualitatively different from the damage to ships in a non-contact explosion of a conventional bottom mine, in which, as a result of the impact of the shock wave front on the ship's hull and its propagation through the ship structures within a radius of several tens of meters from the foundations and mechanisms fail, the body structures are destroyed, the skin is deformed and its seams diverge (what is in the figurative sense in the text of the article "shell shock").

        Now, funnels at the bottom, as modern analysis with computer modeling showed, similar funnels at the bottom could only form when the charges were located and activated in the immediate vicinity of the bottom of the battleship Novorossiysk, that is, in any case, this is not a bottom mine, not a bunch bottom min.

        In general, I did not want to comment on anything, the article is not a defense of the dissertation, but a personal opinion. Let there be an exception.
        This is simplified, as an illustration for everyone who wants to laugh about vacuum and notches with streams of water ...
        There is such a thing as IMPLOSION, if explosion is a sharp increase in pressure and an “explosion outward”, then implosion is a diametrically opposite process: a sharp drop in pressure and an “explosion inward”. During implosion, the vacuum bubble instantly collapses to a point; the phenomenon is very similar to the cumulative effect. In a tiny bubble with lightning-fast advancement of matter toward the center, gigantic speeds and pressures inherent in scientific accelerators and nuclear explosions are locally achieved.
        If "Novorossiysk" did not die from a bottom mine, at least I tried to find another reason, but this is only sabotage. The article is not a verdict, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Thank you all for your attention.
        1. Monster_Fat
          Monster_Fat 29 October 2019 12: 05
          -4
          Mine explosions happened after the war. In my memory, in Novorossiysk a ship of the "Split" type at the end of the 70s anchored in the roadstead in Tsemesskaya Bay and hooked a mine - or an anchor or a chain - an explosion occurred. Unfortunately, it is not known whether this mine was anchor or bottom.
        2. Operator
          Operator 29 October 2019 12: 26
          +1
          Quote: Per se.
          such funnels at the bottom could only form when the charges were located and activated in the immediate vicinity of the bottom of the battleship Novorossiysk, that is, in any case, this is not a bottom mine, not a bunch of bottom mines

          On the contrary, a small funnel on the seabed and breaking through all the decks of the ship indicates the directional nature of the explosion, i.e. about bottom cumulative.

          To your knowledge - a cumulative stream along the drum - the physical nature of the penetrated obstacle (from steel to water).
          1. Per se.
            29 October 2019 13: 11
            +2
            Quote: Operator
            To your knowledge - a cumulative jet stream along the drum - the physical nature of the penetrated obstacle (from steel to water)
            The cumulative jet is not on the drum distance, it is not a laser. Directional blast and cumulative jet are not synonymous. As for the directional explosion, it could be when the main charge was located in the ship's hull, where the direction was created by the hull itself, like a screen, in the articulated bow end. As for the rest, your business is what to believe, we will not prove anything. Nevertheless, the mere fact that in England under the Ordzhonikidze cruiser a muddy story repeated itself, six months after the Novorossiysk was destroyed, sabotage seems more plausible to me personally, and precisely from the "decent" gentlemen.
    3. vladcub
      vladcub 26 October 2019 20: 36
      +3
      In principle, this is possible under certain storage conditions. In fact, the "kbs" were not whimsical
  4. New Year day
    New Year day 26 October 2019 18: 29
    +9
    I had a chance to talk with a participant in the rescue operation: he sank right under the hospital of the KChF, a lot of victims.
    According to experts, there would be fewer deaths in the event of a competent struggle for survivability. This was not. The commander of the ship was not on board. The admirals who came in were themselves in charge, in turn. Komflot Parkhomenko after the death of the battleship was removed.
  5. tlauicol
    tlauicol 26 October 2019 18: 36
    +10
    gushing streams of water bent notches
    negative
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 26 October 2019 19: 00
      +4
      Quote: Tlauicol
      gushing streams of water bent notches




      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 27 October 2019 04: 41
        +7
        2 atmospheres, Karl! A tissue paper boat?
        This is an explosion at the side outside
      2. Saxahorse
        Saxahorse 27 October 2019 20: 10
        +3
        Wow dents! It obviously jerked outside, and something large and not directly adjacent to the board. The version of the explosion at the bottom is the most plausible with such damage.
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 26 October 2019 19: 12
      +8
      I agree, Ivan! Even 2mm brass does not bend under pressure in 5 bars.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 26 October 2019 19: 39
        +8
        And here 14-16 mm of the skin was bent by a stream of water at a depth of 17 meters.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 26 October 2019 19: 44
          +10
          In my opinion, the author tries to describe the consequences of "explosive decompression", having little understanding of the process itself, and its probability in a liquid medium.
          What is called: "and the hamster, tearing apart!".
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 26 October 2019 20: 39
            +3
            The hamster is sorry
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 26 October 2019 20: 41
              +3
              Me too, but I never quit smoking.
    3. Catfish
      Catfish 26 October 2019 19: 38
      +9
      Yes, Ivan, you’re right, you won’t bend such steel with water, it’s already too much.
  6. Dmitry Taravan
    Dmitry Taravan 26 October 2019 18: 38
    +7
    I do not want to go into details, but why no one ever (possibly mistaken) draws an analogy of Julius Caesar with Empress Maria ???
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 26 October 2019 18: 55
      +5
      Quote: Dmitry Taravan
      but why no one ever (possibly mistaken) draws an analogy of Julius Caesar with the Empress Maria ???

      a natural question, especially since they died in almost the same place and the details of the death are similar.
      1. Kenxnumx
        Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 20: 04
        +2
        The place is damned. In general, according to the number of those who died in the bay of their ships, the Sevastopol Bay should be buried and opened in another place.
        1. Xnumx vis
          Xnumx vis 26 October 2019 21: 22
          +3
          Quote: Ken71
          The place is damned. In general, according to the number of those who died in the bay of their ships, the Sevastopol Bay should be buried and opened in another place.

          Best in Haifa!
          1. Kenxnumx
            Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 21: 42
            +4
            Appreciated. But I’m afraid the Haifa people will be against it, it’s hard to dig there and it’s hard to hire Ukrainians. I would try to rent a pier in Haifa instead of Tartus.
            1. Xnumx vis
              Xnumx vis 26 October 2019 21: 58
              +1
              Only at the invitation of the Government of Israel .. And the fee, as in Syria 1 dol. in year ! He joked and then thought ... God forbid !! This will mean that the Arab world has united ... Better we will be in Sevastopol!
              1. Kenxnumx
                Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 22: 01
                +1
                Here damn lovers freebies. $ 1 + restoration of destroyed Syria. For me it’s better than $ 1 million and no additional payments.
                1. Xnumx vis
                  Xnumx vis 26 October 2019 22: 05
                  +2
                  Protection is expensive! Syria will restore itself ... And without Russia it would have been gone for a long time ... "Partners" will gobble up without leftovers ..
                  1. Kenxnumx
                    Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 22: 07
                    +2
                    Syria will not restore itself. Construction contracts will go to our companies, and who will pay for it - think for yourself. Syria oranges, good west, Iran or someone else
                    1. Xnumx vis
                      Xnumx vis 26 October 2019 22: 11
                      +1
                      Syria buys Crimean bread (grain of wheat). Building materials from Sevastopol, Crimea. Citrus fruits, olives, fruits, consumer goods, chemistry, money are being brought from Syria!
                      1. Kenxnumx
                        Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 22: 16
                        0
                        Russia's trade with Syria. Do you honestly think that Syria pays for all this?

                        Russia's exports to Syria in 2018 amounted to $ 397, an increase of 224% ($ 655) compared to 41,94.

                        Russia's imports from Syria in 2018 amounted to $ 4, an increase of 240% ($ 635) compared to 45,57.

                        Syria's share in the foreign trade turnover of Russia in 2018 amounted to 0,0583% compared to 0,0484% in 2017. In 2018, Syria took the 87th place in the share of Russian goods turnover (in 2017 - 92nd place).

                        Syria's share in Russian exports in 2018 amounted to 0,0883% compared to 0,0784% in 2017. Syria took 2018th place in the share of Russian exports in 77 (2017th in 76).

                        The share of Syria in Russia's imports in 2018 amounted to 0,0018% compared to 0,0013% in 2017. According to the share of Russian imports in 2018, Syria took 130th place (in 2017 - 135th).
                      2. Xnumx vis
                        Xnumx vis 27 October 2019 11: 38
                        +1
                        The main thing is that there will be no gas pipeline through Syria to Europe ...
        2. antivirus
          antivirus 26 October 2019 21: 46
          -1
          HERE AND UKRIANS ARE SUITABLE for everyone to find work
          and we laughed at the diggers of the Black Sea
        3. Nikolai Korovin
          Nikolai Korovin 1 November 2019 22: 54
          0
          Pretty weird logic. Let's bury Leningrad, that is, St. Petersburg, and build in another place! It hurt there a lot of people died.
          However, it seems that after 20 years, real measures to save the city will need to be taken if the warming continues.
          1. Kenxnumx
            Kenxnumx 2 November 2019 11: 56
            0
            That was the irony. About our fleet base, which over and over again becomes a trap
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 26 October 2019 20: 57
        +5
        Dear comrades: Dmitry Tarakan, Silvester, there is a certain similarity, but there are also many differences: the "empress" touched upon at the height of WWI and, in peacetime, "Novorossiysk" is so in passing. The "Empress" "was undergoing repairs and there were strangers on the ship besides the crew, which means it was not difficult for the saboteur to get on board. The nature of the explosion: the" Empress "" had an explosion under the bow tower, and the "Novorossiysk" in the depths of the hull. I don't remember how many died on the "Empress", but I don't want to get into Vika.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 26 October 2019 21: 04
          +2
          Quote: vladcub
          There is a certain similarity, but there are many differences:

          we do not argue with this, just the fact of death in the Sevastopol Bay. By the way, the moment of the explosion of the "Empress" was filmed in the photo, which indicates the participation of outsiders, to whom you indicated
          1. Kenxnumx
            Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 21: 47
            +2
            And there the artist happened to be there - also a spy
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 27 October 2019 00: 17
              +9
              At the end of the Second World War, in the archives of Abwehr in Königsberg, this image was discovered.

              The famous photo is the fire on "Maria" after the explosions, but at the same time it is curious in many aspects:
              1. The point of shooting.
              2. Shooting technique.
              This picture is widely circulated on the Internet today, but - with one peculiarity - it is in the "Internet version" - a mono-picture. In fact, this is a STEREO shot. A similar technique was used by photographers at the beginning of the century for sure. It was called "panoramic binocular photography".
              Questions:
              1. How did a photographer with sophisticated equipment find himself in the right place at the right time?
              2. How was the picture in Koenigsberg?
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 27 October 2019 00: 22
                0
                It’s customary to give links, since I quote ...


                Doctor, you’re not a belmez in photography ... there’s a mistake in the phrase, which one I won’t say.

                1. New Year day
                  New Year day 27 October 2019 00: 24
                  +2
                  for your sake, Roman. Waited for correct. The essence does not change. You see the topic is also interesting
                  1. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack 27 October 2019 01: 08
                    0
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    for your sake, Roman. Waited when correct

                    good laughing good
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. New Year day
              New Year day 27 October 2019 01: 00
              +4
              Quote: Ken71
              And there the artist happened to be there - also a spy

              "VI. Comparing the relative probability of the three assumptions made about the causes of the fire, the commission finds that the possibility of malicious intent is not excluded, but its enforcement was facilitated by the significant deviations from the requirements for access to the cruise chambers and imperfections to the workers' ship. "
              A. Krylov "My Memories" 2014
              this photo is there
      3. frog
        frog 27 October 2019 11: 16
        -1
        Maybe they are similar ... Just compare how many died on the "Empress" and how many on this dilapidated battleship ...
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 26 October 2019 19: 02
      +1
      Quote: Dmitry Taravan
      does not draw an analogy of Julius Caesar with Empress Maria ???

      What is the analogy? well in the same place exploded. How many ships exploded? 1 link for the British, 2 for the Italians, 2 for the Japanese
      1. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 26 October 2019 19: 08
        -3
        Well ... at least in the fact that all the "big ships" moored to the barrels in one place for many, many years and knowing this, the Germans stuffed these places with mines, which is confirmed by the fact that they found several more bottom mines in this place after the tragedy ...
        1. frog
          frog 27 October 2019 12: 57
          +1
          Yeah, moored in the same places. And then why didn't these German mines go off in so many years? And, by the way, why did not those EMNIP, 19 bottom mines, which were allegedly caught after the explosion of Novorossiysk, did not work? Detonation canceled?
          Generally speaking, the number of times when already domestic .... characters in the course of the exercises penetrated the bases and did all sorts of things there .... "dirty tricks" at a much later time, are calculated quite a decent figure. That speaks about the quality of service. The last games of this kind took place already in the 80s, with the same effect.
          As for the Italians, by the way .....
          L. Ferrari:
          “This question is not new for us. He was already asked to us in different letters. Everyone asked if we had blown up Giulio Cesare in Sevastopol? I speak responsibly and definitely: these are all inventions. At that time, our country was in ruin, there were enough of our problems! .. Yes, and why do we need all this? This is a distant story. I would admit my participation without any problems, but I do not want to invent something that was not there.
          ... I can’t imagine 95 percent who, besides Italians, could do this. But 100 percent sure that these are not Italians. We had both equipment and trained people. It seems that there is no one besides us, many argue this way. But we have nothing to do with this act. This is absolutely accurate. He was useless to us. And in general, you know, Senor Alessandro, if I had blown up the Giulio Cesare in combat, I would have reported this to you with pride. I don’t want to ascribe this to myself. ”

          E. Marcolini:
          “We are all aware of the fact that more than a ton of explosives exploded under the battleship. On my “Mayal” (guided by a torpedo, the driver of which during the war was E. Marcolini) I could deliver no more than 280 kilograms. To deliver our charge to the battleship, we would need security equipment: either a submarine or something like the “Olterra”. And so that they are not far away. Because there would be practically no power reserve for the return: the torpedo would have to be drowned later, and they would just get out by themselves.
          But this is physically impossible in a little-known place. Yes, in a matter of minutes ...
          About swimmers from the "Gamma" and say nothing. In your water, they would not have survived for a long time (the water temperature on 28.10.1955/12/14 in the Sevastopol region was XNUMX-XNUMX degrees). So I can’t imagine how I would do it myself. And why did we need this? ..
          If we actually participated in the undermining of Giulio Cesare, then everyone would immediately know that, and then we would be dealt with very quickly, torn to pieces. And above all, our left, they then had great power in Italy. "

          E. Legnani answers questions, including about the oath of Prince Borghese on his golden sword to drown the battleship, but not to let the Bolsheviks serve him:
          “Fancy it all. The prince, as far as I knew him, did not give any such oaths to anyone. And the swords we all had were the same. And in general, why did we Italians have to take risks to blow up this rusty box, which barely swam and could hardly shoot ?! I personally know this better than others. Because of him, there was nothing to risk, even if he swam and ruined your treasury ... And if anyone had revenge, it’s England and America — they took the brand new battleships “Vittorio Veneto” and “Italy” from us, and the Germans bombed the "Roma" on the day of the armistice. So, on any side, this action with Giulio Cesare in Italy was absolutely unnecessary ... Guilty and interested must be sought elsewhere. "
  7. knn54
    knn54 26 October 2019 18: 49
    +3
    On October 20, 1916, on the battleship "Empress Maria", in the same bay, powder magazines exploded, the ship sank -225 dead, 85 mutilated. The reason has not been established.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 26 October 2019 19: 39
      +7
      The reason was established by the NKVD in the thirties after the arrest of German agents in Nikolaev. The explosion of the "Empress" is a sabotage.
      1. Kenxnumx
        Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 20: 03
        -2
        And they were agents of England, France, Japan and Burkina Faso. What did the investigators find on the map
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 26 October 2019 20: 07
          +7
          Very witty and completely unproven. They would be silent if there was nothing worthwhile to say.
          1. Kenxnumx
            Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 20: 10
            0
            Well, of course, Verman’s ridiculous affair in which they didn’t even shoot anyone or condemn anyone, and almost all the port engineers along with the mayor were recruited, this is evidence.

            In World War I, they were torn apart in vain. Unworked new explosives.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 26 October 2019 20: 17
              +4
              And the sequential shooting of the explosion of a battleship from a good place and dragging a photo box on it? Well this is not a soap box removed.
              1. Kenxnumx
                Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 20: 20
                +1
                Here you know better, I did not see the photo of the explosion. But this is not the only explosion successfully shot. By the way, why should the spyen shine so much - to remove the work of his vile hands

                Yes I found a bad photo of the fire after the call
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 26 October 2019 20: 33
                  +1
                  By the way, why should the spyen shine so much - to remove the work of his vile hands


                  And you need to ask this vile spy. Maybe as a keepsake, maybe for a report, or maybe just out of love for photo art, who's in love ...
                  1. Kenxnumx
                    Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 20: 35
                    +1
                    Lay out pliiz photo of the explosion. A photo of a fire is not so interesting, because there is a very high probability of an accidental photographer.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 26 October 2019 20: 47
                      +1
                      It would be laid out, look for yourself, I will try too.
                      As for the accidental, it’s unlikely that at such an early time to carry a heavy box on the mountain, for what?
                      1. Kenxnumx
                        Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 21: 52
                        +3
                        There were even two photographers, which draws just a conspiracy

              2. Captain45
                Captain45 26 October 2019 21: 42
                +4
                Quote: Sea Cat
                And the sequential shooting of the explosion of a battleship from a good place and dragging a photo box on it? Well this is not a soap box removed.

                I remember in the magazine "Technology of Youth" for 1977 or 1978, I don't remember exactly, there was an article about "Maria", a drawing of the ship was given and four small photographs were posted sequentially showing the stages of the disaster: a ship with a large column of smoke above the bow, a slightly tilted ship , a heavily banked ship and a ship half-hidden under water. And it is absolutely true that this is not a "soap dish", although it seems that the Germans already had "watering cans" or not?
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 26 October 2019 21: 57
                  +5
                  There was such a writer - Yolkin, after the storming of Königsberg, he found the German Maritime Atlas in the ruins, and it contained these very photographs. He then, on his own initiative, began to investigate the disaster, even met with the widow of Admiral Kolchak. I wrote a book about it, but I don't remember its name. And most likely his article was in "Technique". hi
                  1. beeper
                    beeper 26 October 2019 23: 55
                    +6
                    hi In the late 60s and early 70s in "TM", in the section "Antalogies of Mysterious Cases", there was, with sequels, about the explosion on the "Empress Maria" (but about "Novorossiysk" nowhere, no gu-gu !!! about him only in summer 1986 in the Crimea, in secret, from one Sevastopol resident who opened his heart and was encouraged by Gorbachev's "glasnost", I heard about this tragedy)!
                    There are also two photographs found in Koenigsberg.
                    1. New Year day
                      New Year day 27 October 2019 00: 19
                      +5
                      Quote: pishchak
                      There are also two photographs found in Koenigsberg.

                      obviously one of two
                      1. beeper
                        beeper 27 October 2019 00: 58
                        +5
                        hi Yes, this one, comrade Sylvester! And one more, also with smoke, somewhere they recently came across to me among my old clippings from magazines!
                      2. New Year day
                        New Year day 27 October 2019 01: 07
                        +4
                        Quote: pishchak
                        ... among my old magazine clippings

                        I, too, have not been interested for a long time, there is no time, but today they again carried away this topic
                        two books on "The Empress" discovered:
                        "My Memories" A. Krylov, 2014 and
                        "Empress Maria - Return from the Depths" S. Vinogradov.
                        So there are pictures too.
                        If we take into account that the explosion was at 6-20 in the morning, then the presence of photographs is very explainable in only one way .. hi
                      3. beeper
                        beeper 27 October 2019 09: 45
                        +6
                        hi A. Krylov's book is generally incomparable, not only about "Maria"! good
                        And in the book of S. Vinogradov, a case is also described when the raised hull of the battleship was examined in the Sevastopol dry dock and, among other things, a hammock, they found a sailor chest with boot accessories and blanks from strips of artillery gunpowder of main-caliber charges improvised to be used for the soles of sailor boots! That is, not everything was so simple with access to the GK artillery cellar and the safety of charges!
                        As for the photo of the fire ALREADY AFTER the explosion, nimble photographers from numerous private photo studios could have hurried in advance to somehow earn extra money on the sensation, although I do not exclude a conspiracy ("reporting") moment, after all, there were enough spies, not only German ones, in the main base of the Black Sea Fleet always and, possibly, the disposition of the water area of ​​the bay they "photodocumented" every day (as well as the Japanese Pearl Harbor) ?!
                      4. New Year day
                        New Year day 27 October 2019 10: 10
                        +4
                        Quote: pishchak
                        That is, not everything was so simple with access to the GK artillery cellar and the safety of charges!

                        Krylov also describes that access was free, although he denies carelessness. As far as I remember, the "Empress" of the Germans was chasing the Black Sea and to facilitate / speed up the loading of the guns, some doors were simply removed
                      5. Saxahorse
                        Saxahorse 27 October 2019 20: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        If we take into account that the explosion was at 6-20 in the morning, then the presence of photographs is very explainable in only one way ..

                        And it’s even clear in what :) The then photographers were like non-bloggers. All around filmed. The explosion itself replaced the alarm clock. And the city there is around the bay, it’s enough to go to the window for shooting.
                    2. Catfish
                      Catfish 27 October 2019 11: 37
                      +1
                      Greetings, Buddy. hi
                      In Königsberg, not two were found, but a whole series of photographs successively displaying the explosion of a battleship. Someone was preparing for the shoot in advance.
                      1. beeper
                        beeper 27 October 2019 11: 43
                        +2
                        hi Good Morning, Comrade Konstantin!
                        With "Empress Maria" sabotage has not been done, it's a stopood!
                        As, however, with the "Novorossiysk" -IMHO
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 October 2019 11: 45
                        -1
                        Most likely, but both there and there, as Vic Nikolayevich correctly noted, all this was facilitated by our eternal gouging. drinks
                      3. beeper
                        beeper 27 October 2019 12: 09
                        +2
                        hi drinks Yes, I agree that "healthy indifference" in our life "takes place" - I myself am the same, disorderly, in most cases - "Until the thunder breaks out, the man does not cross himself"! yes
                      4. Saxahorse
                        Saxahorse 27 October 2019 20: 32
                        0
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        In Königsberg, not two were found, but a whole series of photographs successively displaying the explosion of a battleship. Someone was preparing for the shoot in advance.

                        Not a blast but a fire. And the spies must have been in Sevastopol. And of course they either made the photos themselves or tried to buy it right there. That's just their involvement in the explosion, it still does not prove. Although in my opinion the probability is high. But it could be just gouging. I read somewhere that the sailors of the gunpowder tape, at that time, used to pad shoes. So as not to slip.
                2. vladcub
                  vladcub 27 October 2019 18: 50
                  +1
                  I don’t know much about the history of photography, but it seems that there were already compact cameras
            2. your1970
              your1970 26 October 2019 20: 31
              0
              And the case when sabotage was revealed was sentenced to be shot, but then they pardoned and all the engineers and technicians left to work in their places - don’t you remember for an hour?
              1. Kenxnumx
                Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 20: 35
                +2
                Here is a retrospective investigation
          2. Warrior2015
            Warrior2015 26 October 2019 21: 53
            -1
            Quote: Sea Cat
            Very witty and completely unproven. They would be silent if there was nothing worthwhile to say.

            No, Ken said everything right, the documents of the 20s, made by the Cheka-NKVD, can simply not be considered. They beat out such "pearls" that such marshals as Tukhachevsky and Blucher turned out to be the heads of the world conspiracy against the USSR, didn't you read it?
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 26 October 2019 21: 08
        +4
        A cat, purely out of disgust: they could have confessed to those "saboteurs" in the explosion of the battleship "Petropavlovsk" in 19057 and in the explosion of the Tunguska methiorite. The NKVD knew how to "persuade".
        Although even then they did not rule out sabotage
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 26 October 2019 22: 03
          +2
          Not in this case, Svyatoslav. Then they worked with Germany seriously and the NKVD did not dismiss the "playful hands" in relation to them. For them, when it was necessary "for the plan" and among their fellow tribesmen, there were enough "spies".
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 27 October 2019 18: 56
            +3
            Kot (Konstantin?), And in what year did the NKVD establish this, it seems, in 1937? And then there was a cooling in relation to the Reich-Soviet Union.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 27 October 2019 18: 59
              -1
              I don’t remember the year, but they continued to drive the wheat and buy warships from them, too.
      3. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 26 October 2019 22: 31
        +1
        Quote: Sea Cat
        The reason was established by the NKVD in the thirties after the arrest of German agents in Nikolaev. The explosion of the "Empress" is a sabotage.

        You read Akunin’s there, they carried a Chinese man in a tool box, put it through the barrel into the tower. But in general, the Empress’s gunpowder was burning, which means it’s possible to spontaneously ignite or sloppily, did our warehouses burn out, exploded?
      4. Amurets
        Amurets 27 October 2019 01: 24
        +7
        Quote: Sea Cat
        The reason was established by the NKVD in the thirties after the arrest of German agents in Nikolaev. The explosion of the "Empress" is a sabotage.

        What about this version? But this is VO. 06.VII.2018 year.
        https://topwar.ru/144019-%5Bfont%20color=blue%5D%5Bfont%20color=blue%5Dkt%5B/font%5D%5B/font%5Do-vzorval-imperatricu-mariyu.html
        “An interesting version was presented by midshipman Vladimir Uspensky, who commanded the main caliber tower on the battleship Empress Maria and that unfortunate morning was the ship's chief of watch. Shaposhnikov, 2 years after the tragedy, when the ship was at the dock, he found a sailor's chest containing two stearic candles, a box of matches, a set of shoe tools and two pairs of boots, and chopped strips of smokeless powder were nailed to the boots. There was also such a skilled sailor, then it is likely that gunpowder, which had been in a sealed box for a year and a half, could release ethereal vapors that flared up from a burning candle. Combustion of four pounds of gunpowder in a small room of the tower could lead to the explosion of 599 canisters. "
  8. Jerk
    Jerk 26 October 2019 18: 50
    +4
    Yes, there was already a story about tightly brewed spaces just where the hole is ... What is there - but the hell knows, in the documentation - is silent
  9. Russian Bear_2
    Russian Bear_2 26 October 2019 19: 02
    +2
    It is a possible version.
  10. Igorpl
    Igorpl 26 October 2019 19: 16
    +6
    The notch vacuum will not bend inward.
  11. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 26 October 2019 19: 18
    +11
    The vacuum created a pressure difference at which gushing streams of water bent the notches of the hole inward. . In addition, the flow of water involved bottom sediment.
    I especially liked this, as the explanations of the explosion inside and the edges of the hole were also bent inward ... At the same time, the same author considers the other versions to be untenable .. Ndaaa ..
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 27 October 2019 01: 41
      +8
      The vacuum created a pressure difference in which gushing streams of water bent the notches of the hole inward. In addition, the flow of water involved bottom sediment.
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      I especially liked this, as the explanations of the explosion inside and the edges of the hole were also bent inward ...
      This is how much the author had to drink to write this. What vacuum can bend sheets of metal 14-16 mm thick in the region of the explosion, if only obscene?
  12. Corn
    Corn 26 October 2019 19: 18
    +4
    It was a powerful explosion in the Novorossiysk building that burned all the air in the adjacent space, creating a vacuum. The vacuum created a pressure difference in which gushing streams of water bent the notches of the hole inward.
    um ... what?
    Could the author explain this point in more detail?
  13. bubalik
    bubalik 26 October 2019 19: 31
    +5
    ,,, this is the work of the Soviet special services, which performed the task of discrediting the chief of the Navy Nikolai Gerasimovich Kuznetsov, objectionable to the country's leadership.

    29 October 1957 year, at the plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU Nikita Khrushchev:
    "
    We were offered to invest more than 100 billion rubles in the fleet and build old boats and destroyers armed with classical artillery. We had a big fight, removed Kuznetsov ... thinking, taking care of the fleet, and defense, he was unable. We need to evaluate everything in a new way. It’s necessary to build a fleet, but above all, to build a submarine fleet armed with missiles. ”
    1. bubalik
      bubalik 26 October 2019 20: 50
      +7
      1. The commission has already given a conclusion two and a half weeks after the disaster. The ship has not even been lifted.

      2. At the time of the explosion, the ships of the water protection division, whose duty it was to guard the entrance to the main base of the Black Sea Fleet, were in a completely different place. On the night of the disaster, the outer raid was not guarded by anyone; the network gates were wide open, and the noise finders were inactive.

      3. The ship, after lifting, was quickly cut into metal, and the case was closed.

      4. Criminal punishment, after such a disaster, no one was carried. The battleship commander Kuhta was demoted and sent to the reserve. They were also removed from their posts and demoted: Rear Division Admiral Galitsky, commander of the division for the protection of the water region, acting squadron commander Nikolsky and a member of the Military Council Kulakov. After a year and a half they were restored belay in the ranks. Fleet Commander Vice Admiral Viktor Parkhomenko was severely reprimanded, and on December 8 of 1955 of the year he was removed from his post.
      But in 1956, the commander of the USSR Navy, Admiral N.G. Kuznetsov, was removed from his post.

      5.Gorshkov, all the ideas about awarding orders and medals to all sailors who died along with the battleship, as well as 117 people from among those who survived the explosion, sailors from other ships who came to the aid of Novorossiysk, divers and doctors who distinguished themselves during rescue work wrapped up.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 26 October 2019 22: 07
        +5
        2. At the time of the explosion, the ships of the water protection division, whose duty it was to guard the entrance to the main base of the Black Sea Fleet, were in a completely different place. On the night of the disaster, the outer raid was not guarded by anyone; the network gates were wide open, and the noise finders were inactive.

        Sergey, hello! hi Well, this directly suggests itself:
        1. bubalik
          bubalik 26 October 2019 22: 08
          +4
          Konstantinhi so what, saboteurs 2 and dragged explosives?
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 26 October 2019 23: 20
            +1
            And who knows, pasta, maybe they sailed on three torpedoes. Just kidding. I do not claim that it was so. Just a beautiful illustration. request
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 27 October 2019 10: 20
            +3
            Quote: bubalik
            Konstantinhi and what, saboteurs 2 tons of explosives dragged?

            the version was such that before the transfer of the battleship, the Italians carried out welding work on it. When receiving the ship, there were no documents on it; there were not even layout schemes for the compartments. At our acceptance, the presence of fresh welds in the hold was noted. Some compartments were unverified again due to the lack of technical documentation. It can be assumed that the Italians laid the explosives before the transfer of the ship, the compartment was brewed. Borghese could deliver his mine precisely under the indicated compartment. Further explosion is detonation. After some time, Borghese was awarded. It may be by accident. or maybe not
            1. Town Hall
              Town Hall 27 October 2019 10: 33
              0
              Quote: Silvestr
              After some time, Borghese was awarded. It may be by accident. or maybe not

              Who and when was awarded the disgraced and convicted Italian court Borghese?
              1. New Year day
                New Year day 27 October 2019 10: 43
                +4
                Quote: Town Hall
                Who and when was awarded the disgraced and convicted Italian court Borghese?

                Proponents of the Italian version claim that some time after the death of Novorossiysk, a message appeared in the Italian press about the awarding of orders of a group of officers of the Italian Navy "for performing a special task." However, so far no one has published a single photocopy of this message.
                1. Town Hall
                  Town Hall 27 October 2019 10: 45
                  +1
                  Quote: Silvestr
                  Quote: Town Hall
                  Who and when was awarded the disgraced and convicted Italian court Borghese?

                  Proponents of the Italian version claim that some time after the death of Novorossiysk, a message appeared in the Italian press about the awarding of orders of a group of officers of the Italian Navy "for performing a special task." However, so far no one has published a single photocopy of this message.

                  Fake of course. Therefore, there are no photocopies
                  1. New Year day
                    New Year day 27 October 2019 10: 54
                    +2
                    Quote: Town Hall
                    Fake of course. Therefore, there are no photocopies

                    perhaps. Is it officially possible to reward for this. However, Borghese and Skorzeny lived in Spain. Skorzeny Italian congratulated.
                    Ugo D'Esposito, a veteran of the Italian unit of Gamma combat swimmers, said in an interview with Italian media that he was involved in the preparation of the explosion of the Soviet battleship Novorossiysk in Sevastopol Bay on October 29, 1955.
                    https://aif.ru/society/history/mest_pobezhdennyh_italyanec_priznalsya_v_unichtozhenii_linkora_novorossiysk
                    1. Town Hall
                      Town Hall 27 October 2019 10: 58
                      0
                      I know that. Fake is about the awards. By the way, look at how another Italian ship ended its "life", the transfer of which to the USSR caused a real shock among the Italian sailors and who wanted to blow it up even before the transfer - the sailing ship Cristoforo Colombo. After the transfer - Danube
            2. ABM
              ABM 5 November 2019 14: 56
              0
              the entire area of ​​the hole is bent inside - an external explosion
  14. Undecim
    Undecim 26 October 2019 19: 37
    +16
    Another fairy tale of an unknown storyteller from the cycle "The Englishwoman crap".
    At the moment, the true cause of the death of the battleship has not been disclosed, despite the many publications and discussions of the tragedy in various television programs.
    The true cause of the death of the battleship lies on the surface - the boundless sloppiness and incredible negligence and incompetence of the naval command, whose efforts the ship, standing in the port at a depth of 17 meters, staying afloat for three hours after the explosion, drowned with 829 sailors.
    As for the involvement in the explosion of the British, who mined the ship, why would they hide the explosives in the compartments of the ship? Assuming that they had an explosive device capable of maintaining operability for seven years, it was much easier to equip any of the main-caliber shells or any of the charges or one charge in each of the cellars and get five charges weighing from 35 tons under two-armed towers to 52,5 tons under three-gun. The explosion of a pair of cellars is guaranteed to destroy the battleship.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 26 October 2019 19: 52
      +8
      One interesting point. In 1916, on the "Leonardo da Vinci" of the same type as "Novorossiysk" in the port of Taranto, due to negligence when loading ammunition, their detonation occurred. 248 people were killed, the battleship sank at a depth of 11 m, the Italians spent three years on its rise. So the sabotage of the Austro-Hungarian saboteurs was officially named the cause of the explosion.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 26 October 2019 21: 21
        +6
        Good evening Vic, congratulations - you are a "foreign agent"! laughing
        But I’m not about that. I have a friend, Kolka Cherkashin, a military sailor, he wrote books, maybe you read him. He said that in one of the bases of the Italian Navy (I don't remember exactly where exactly), there is a museum and there is a hall of Military Glory with the names of the victims. So, in this room, on opposite walls, there are two huge paintings, one of which is in full swing "Cesare", and the other two light divers astride a torpedo. By chance, there were only these two paintings in the hall?
        In general, I have the feeling that we have already talked about this here.
        But I’m saying that maybe it’s not worth it to discount Italians, although in such a diversion, to be honest, I see no reason.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 26 October 2019 22: 13
          +3
          The museum you are talking about is obviously the Museo tecnico navale in La Spezia.

          I leave the story about the hall on the conscience of your friend, a well-known fan of the version with Italians.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 27 October 2019 10: 55
            0
            Victor Nikolayevich, I really appreciate your knowledge and respect your opinion, but I have known Nikolai for a long time and trust him completely. I believe in this case too. smile
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 27 October 2019 17: 45
              -2
              Faith is the recognition of something true regardless of the factual or logical justification, mainly due to the very nature of the subject's relationship to the subject of faith.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 27 October 2019 18: 57
                -1
                Well, it already gives away fanaticism. smile
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 27 October 2019 19: 14
                  -1
                  I believe in this case too - Your words, so you know better.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 27 October 2019 20: 20
                    -1
                    You know better.

                    This is true, everyone carries his own cross. request
          2. Kenxnumx
            Kenxnumx 28 October 2019 20: 45
            0
            The same thing in Rome in the Museum of Banners and in Venice in the Museum of the Arsenal. In Venice there are examples of form and, in general, more
    2. alstr
      alstr 26 October 2019 23: 23
      +6
      Or maybe both versions need to be crossed?
      Those. quite an option:
      Explosive was laid in the battleship. The swimmers set an external mine, which was supposed to initiate the explosion of an internal mine. In this case, a lot of explosives are not needed.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 27 October 2019 04: 58
        +2
        It’s easier to hide the 20n5 pencil case in the powder cap and the explosion of the cellar is guaranteed. Or a fire during welding work to arrange and the ship does not need to be transferred. All these versions of bullshit
        1. alstr
          alstr 27 October 2019 13: 25
          +1
          The fire will not pass. Because, in this case, I would have to give another battleship.
    3. New Year day
      New Year day 27 October 2019 10: 21
      +3
      Quote: Undecim
      boundless sloppiness and incredible negligence and incompetence of the naval command, the efforts of which the ship standing in the port at a depth of 17 meters, having survived afloat for three hours after the explosion, drowned with 829 sailors.

      this is the cause of death. Originally, there was still an explosion
  15. Kenxnumx
    Kenxnumx 26 October 2019 20: 01
    +4
    Streams of water bent the edges of the hole inward? What is it like. The explosion of the explosive bookmark in hundreds of kg turned the minimum outward, and the flow of water bent inward. I do not really believe it. And the smell of explosives could well have been in the explosion on the body and the breakthrough of gases inside. Probably still a mine bank or Italians.
  16. Catfish
    Catfish 26 October 2019 20: 05
    +13
    In my opinion, the version with the British sabotage is pretty stretched. If "Novorossiysk" was going to be sent with a squadron to Mediterranean
    The Suez Canal, Egypt, the strengthening of the Soviet Union in this region, which is very important for Great Britain, the direct preparation of our squadron, led by Novorossiysk, for entering the Mediterranean Sea at an extremely tense political moment.
    it wasn’t easier to set up a detonation already there, not "making a garden" with penetration into the guarded roadstead of Sevastopol. However. here it is difficult to say something definite without knowing how the explosion was initiated, if it was sabotage at all.
    The Soviet leadership hoped to get one of the new Italian battleships, Littorio or Vittorio Veneto, but the former allies, citing the fact that the Soviet Union was not actively involved in the Mediterranean war, agreed to transfer only the older Giulio Cesare.

    As far as I know from the memoirs of the Admiral of the Fleet of the USSR Nikolai Gerasimovich Kuznetsov, the fate of large ships of the Italian fleet, like the German one, was decided by a banal toss, they just pulled pieces of paper with the names of the ships from someone's cap. And here I believe Kuznetsov more than the author.
    And speaking seriously, by the mid-fifties battleships as a striking force of the fleet absolutely lost their former importance, especially as such an old man built at the beginning of the century, like "Caesar". The British put their Vanguard on pins and needles right from the stocks, and the Americans did the same with the excellent Alaska-class battlecruisers. "His Majesty" the Aircraft Carrier became the king, and "Novorossiysk" did not pose any danger for the aircraft carrier formation. I treat the "Englishwoman who always crap" appropriately, but this version, in my opinion, does not work.
    In Sevastopol there is a very beautiful and solemn memorial dedicated to the sailors who died on the "Novorossiysk" and if the local guys in the mid-seventies had not taken us to the "Black Sailor", we would never have learned about what happened then in Akhtiarskaya Bay. Everything was hushed up.
    Peace be upon them and a blessed memory ... soldier
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 26 October 2019 22: 19
      +1
      Quote: Sea Cat
      wouldn’t it be easier to set up an explosion there

      There was a version that the Soviet Union developed atomic shells for a battleship. And in the event of detonation from Sevastopol, there would be little left
      Quote: Sea Cat
      the fate of the large ships of the Italian fleet, as well as the German one, was decided by a trivial draw, they simply pulled pieces of paper with the names of the ships from someone's cap. And here I believe Kuznetsov more than the author.

      The Soviet side laid claim to one of the two new battleships, superior in power even to the German ships of the Bismarck class.
      But since by this time the Cold War had already begun between the recent allies, neither the United States nor Britain sought to strengthen the Soviet Navy with powerful ships. I had to throw lots, and the USSR got the group "C".
      New battleships went to the USA (“Littorio”) and England (“Vittorio Veneto”)
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 26 October 2019 23: 26
        -1
        Something I doubt about the possibility of detonation in atomic weapons. But I can’t pretend, not a specialist. Maybe one of the men will clarify the situation.
    2. beeper
      beeper 27 October 2019 00: 31
      +3
      hi My friend Konstantin, a Sevastopol resident, who first told me about the tragedy with the Novorossiysk at the Simferopol airport in 1986, talked about fifteen hundred (the number I call from my memory) who were loaded on the eve of the explosion on board the battleship of the landing troops, of which almost none survived, and the planned the campaign of our squadron in Romania, it seems that there were some unrest (from a "series" of pro-Western post-Stalinist "troubles" in the "countries of the socialist camp", which began in the summer of 1953 with the then GDR ...)
      And we ALREADY discussed on VO a similar topic of the explosion of "Novorossiysk" under a corresponding, much better quality (IMHO, some of the current JACOBS "WRAPPED with water inside", presumably before these thick steel plates of the battleship, turned out after an internal explosion, raise some doubts !! !), An article by Andrey from Chelyabinsk, about two years ago! request
    3. Amurets
      Amurets 27 October 2019 02: 15
      +3
      Quote: Sea Cat
      And speaking seriously, by the mid-fifties battleships as a striking force of the fleet absolutely lost their former importance, especially as such an old man built at the beginning of the century, like "Caesar".
      Tsvetkov Igor Fedorovich, in his book "Battleship" October Revolution "wrote how in the early 1950s he was doing practice on the battleship" Sevastopol ". And as he wrote when firing with the main caliber of the battleship, elements and parts of the hull that had rusted through and fell off and fell off. I do not think that the state of the building and systems of "Novorossiysk" was in a better condition than that of its peer < > The resulting ship was in an extremely neglected state, as from 1943 to 1948 it was laid up with minimal crew and no proper maintenance. Immediately before the transfer to the Soviet Union, the battleship underwent minor repairs, mainly affecting the electromechanical part.
      The main part of the armament, the main power plant and the main hull structures below the armored deck were in satisfactory condition. General ship systems — pipelines, fittings, servicing mechanisms — were in very poor condition. Inoperative were emergency diesel generators. Operational technical documentation and documentation on unsinkability were practically absent - they could not use scattered documents in Italian, since no one knew Italian. Sent translators were helpless, because they did not have special terminology. There was almost no intra-ship communication, radio communication, and there were no small-caliber radars and anti-aircraft artillery at all.
  17. Avior
    Avior 26 October 2019 20: 29
    +4
    The version of why the edges are bent inward, in my opinion, does not hold water.
    And without a real explanation of the reason why, with an alleged internal explosion, the edges are bent inward, all versions of the charge embedded inside can be immediately discarded as insolvent.
    Could the mine lie on the bottom?
    Quite a few years they got a similar one in Sevastopol, they wanted to turn it over for scrap.
    And the fact that they did not clear it thoroughly is undoubtedly the fault of the fleet leadership.
    Let me remind you that recently in Feodosia from the fortress, where the military had been for many years, they got a whole arsenal.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 27 October 2019 10: 42
      +1
      Quote: Avior
      Could the mine lie on the bottom?

      In 1956-1958, after the explosion of the battleship, another 19 German bottom mines were discovered in the Sevastopol Bay, including three at a distance of less than 50 meters from the place of death of the battleship. Testimonies from divers also spoke in favor of the mine version. As the Kravtsov branch commander testified: “The ends of the skin of the hole are bent inwards. By the nature of the hole, burrs from the sheathing, the explosion was from the outside of the ship. ”
  18. Tavrik
    Tavrik 26 October 2019 20: 31
    -1
    Quote: Sea Cat
    and if the local guys in the mid-seventies had not taken us to the "Black Sailor", we would never have learned about what happened then in Akhtiarskaya Bay. Everything was hushed up.

    Intrigued! So what really happened?
    "It's clear that it's a dark matter."
  19. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 26 October 2019 20: 42
    +7
    The author is a supporter of the version of the death of the battleship "Novorossiysk" from an internal charge laid before the transfer of the battleship to the Soviet Union. And yet the version of the death of the battleship from the explosion of a German bottom mine, or, most likely, a "bundle" of two mines, tk. witnesses speak of a double explosion, most likely. I have already defended this version in the comments when discussing the article "Was the battleship Novorossiysk blown up in 1955 by combat swimmers of the Italian Navy?"

    The mine was disturbed either by a jet from the working screws of the battleship or auxiliary tugs, or by anchors (anchor chain), as to get on the barrels is not an easy task, and the main propulsion system does quite a few reverses, and the anchors are repeatedly given to quench the inertia of the ship or deploy the hull. In addition, when docked on barrels, anchors are also used to securely hold the vessel.

    Setting the battleship on the barrels ended about 19 hours, perhaps the bottom mine timer, which was launched at that time, counted down 6 hours and worked. The explosion of the first mine led to the detonation of another, which was nearby. Moreover, the water area of ​​the Sevastopol bays was just stuffed with them, the Germans threw them directly into the water during retreat without any system.

    Mina lay for more than 10 years, did not succumb to trawling. Perhaps the multiplicity device did not work, perhaps self-liquidator. During the operation of the screws, these devices could restart. The fact that the batteries do not serve as much is not a fact. An example of this was found on May 31, 2006 at the bottom of Kamyshovaya Bay, a German bottom mine, which was neutralized and in which the battery and all the fuse devices were operational.

    And in February 2004, a similar find caused the death of people. The bottom mine was lifted from a ten-meter depth in the area of ​​Kamyshovaya Bay for dismantling for scrap. Despite the fact that the mine lay in the water for 60 years, its battery and all the fuse devices were in good condition. During mechanical action, two of the six safety traps were triggered. As a result of the explosion, two people died and one was seriously injured.

    The bend of steel sheets of the bottom sheathing inside the hull speaks in favor of the version of the death of a battleship from a ground mine explosion. The explosion broke through several decks, broke out onto the main deck, covering it with a thick layer of silt. This suggests that the charge was outside the hull, and the force of the explosion was directed upwards. If the charge laid inside the hull were blown up, then the destruction of decks and bulkheads would be in all directions.

    This is evidenced by the area of ​​the hole - 150 square meters. and the casing around is the result of a powerful hydraulic shock of water (the liquid is not compressible), and therefore a large hole. If the mine were attached to the body, the area of ​​the hole would be slightly smaller, and the sheathing sheets around the hole would be bent into a roll.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 26 October 2019 21: 34
      -1
      I have already defended this version in the comments when discussing the article "Was the battleship Novorossiysk blown up in 1955 by combat swimmers of the Italian Navy?"
      Have you ever tried to figure out what should be the charge power to break through a battleship from the bottom to the upper deck, including three armored decks with a total thickness of 135 mm?
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 27 October 2019 07: 06
        +4
        Quote: Undecim

        Have you ever tried to figure out what should be the charge power to break through a battleship from the bottom to the upper deck, including three armored decks with a total thickness of 135 mm?

        In the nose? outside the citadel? he already has vertical cardboard booking ...
        Well, there are Kavurov reservation schemes - there in the total of 30 millimeters
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 27 October 2019 07: 49
          +6
          Those. horizontal of course, deck, cardboard
      2. Avior
        Avior 27 October 2019 11: 20
        +3
        The path of the first explosion passed through sailor's cubes
      3. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 28 October 2019 19: 52
        +1
        Quote: Undecim
        Have you ever tried to figure out what should be the charge power to break through a battleship from the bottom to the upper deck, including three armored decks with a total thickness of 135 mm?

        An explosion of two bottom mines, in each from 850 to 1000 kg of explosive, is quite enough to make a hole of 150 square meters. m. and break through all the decks.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 28 October 2019 22: 52
          -3
          Based on what do you make such a conclusion? Are you a specialist, can you confirm with calculations, examples?
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 29 October 2019 01: 26
            +1
            Quote: Undecim
            Based on what do you make such a conclusion? Are you a specialist, can you confirm with calculations, examples?

            In military specialty, I am an engineer in mine-torpedo and anti-submarine weapons. What calculation do you still need when there is a fact: a hole of 150 sq. m, around the dent and bent into the inside sheets of the casing of the bottom of the body, the charge is estimated at almost 2 tons of explosive. In addition, the discharge of silt onto the bulkhead deck suggests that these were bottom mines, as Neither the hidden charge in the body, nor the attached charges to the body of the discharge of sludge can give.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 29 October 2019 08: 18
              -2
              If you are truly a specialist in mine-torpedo and anti-submarine weapons, then you should know what calculations are carried out to determine the necessary power of the crawler and know examples of the effects on the design of ships of mine explosions and torpedoes.
              If you just have a mark on your military ID, this will change things a little.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 29 October 2019 14: 43
                0
                I wonder what kind of "people's avenger" nominated comments in a row for almost 2000? Who I offended so much, I wonder?
              2. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 30 October 2019 02: 03
                +1
                Quote: Undecim
                You must know what calculations are carried out to determine the necessary power of the creep and know examples of the impact on the design of ships of explosions of mines and torpedoes.


                Do you think that all mine, torpedo, and anti-submarine weapon engineers are calculating how to “explode twin towers”? No, they have other tasks.

                Although in my youth I had to deal with this, I witnessed the undermining of our ships by scuba divers in the summer of 1986 in the port of Namibe (Angola). Two of our ships, KM Vislobokov, KM Chirkov, and the Cuban Havana, were blown up there. For the detonation, mines of international production were used: a case of 300x400x200 mm in white metal - English, a fuse - Japanese, a Dutch battery - TNT equivalent of 12 kg.

                There, our comrades had to make some calculations, but alas, not one of them was confirmed. Therefore, I assure you that no matter what the calculations are, they are all approximate, taking into account a number of conventions, limitations and simplifications, all models are idealized, and the formulas are empirical. The reality is much more diverse.

                For example, Captain Chirkov has three mines with a total TNT equivalent of only 36 kg. made a hole with an area of ​​more than 30 sq. m .. And on the battleship "Novorossiysk" - loaded 2000 kg, catch the difference?
                1. Serg koma
                  Serg koma 24 November 2019 05: 55
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Two of our vessels, KM Vislobokov, were blown up there,


                  At the end of the nurse of 1945, I was summoned by the chief of staff of the Black Sea Fleet, Vice Admiral S. G. Gorshkov, and informed me that on my way from Odessa to Albania, on the way to Constanta, I got off the fairway and was blown up by a non-contact mine the ship "Captain Vislobokov". There was an Albanian diplomatic mission on the ship.
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 24 November 2019 10: 21
                    +1
                    In Angola, another ship was blown up - the motor ship "Captain Vislobokov", built in 1967, and about which Panchenko writes - a steamer built in 1919 in the United States, at that time was part of the Far Eastern Shipping Company, then it was renamed "Omsk" and transferred to 1946 to the Black Sea Shipping Company. In 1977, the ship was scrapped.
                    1. Serg koma
                      Serg koma 25 November 2019 14: 52
                      0
                      drinks
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      motor ship "Captain Vislobokov"

                      Thank you, "in the know." Built in 1967 was decommissioned after being blown up.
                      The name is fate.
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 26 October 2019 21: 36
      +2
      Very plausible, but I do not exclude Borgose
    3. New Year day
      New Year day 27 October 2019 10: 29
      +5
      Quote: Alexander Green
      And in February 2004, a similar find caused the death of people. The bottom mine was lifted from a ten-meter depth in the area of ​​Kamyshovaya Bay for dismantling for scrap.


      remnants after the explosion of the "trap".
      “They were all by a hair's breadth from death, since under the mine hull, sappers discovered living batteries that could spark a charge at any moment!

      “It cannot be that for sixty-odd years the batteries have not died!” I did not believe.

      - German quality! - explained the officers of the Ministry of Emergencies.

      Note that the Germans, to whom the Ukrainian sappers sent a request, did not find similar items in the archives of the mine case, advised to blow up the find on the spot. "
      https://www.crimea.kp.ru/daily/23226/26971/
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 27 October 2019 11: 41
        +2
        Judging by the thickness of the walls of the hull, this device could not be a sea mine. In the photo it’s not at all clear what it is.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 27 October 2019 22: 09
          +2
          Quote: Sea Cat
          In the photo it’s not at all clear what it is.

          so the Germans could not identify
          .... Germans to whom Ukrainian sappers sent a request without finding similar items in the mine archives ....
      2. Flatter
        Flatter 27 October 2019 15: 46
        0
        - German quality! - explained the officers of the Ministry of Emergencies.

        Regarding quality, the assessment is ambiguous. Let’s say a chemical fuse is installed in the mine. The chemical has eaten the electrical insert, the circuit is closed, the mine is ready for work. Violation of the manufacturing technology of such a fuse leads to explosions and after decades, the battery capacity for the electrical circuit will last for a longer time. So, due to the negligence of the Germans, the ship was lost and self-confident metalworkers suffered.
  20. Catfish
    Catfish 26 October 2019 20: 45
    +7
    Here, just in memory of the dead ...


  21. IL-64
    IL-64 26 October 2019 21: 07
    +4
    Everything's OK. Only one question: were there any detonators that could initiate a "delayed" detonation of the bookmark months after the detonator was put into combat state? I don't believe in the version with a radio fuse, since the ship's hull is such a Faraday grid, through which not a single radio signal will pass
  22. vladcub
    vladcub 26 October 2019 21: 12
    +4
    Quote: Undecim
    One interesting point. In 1916, on the "Leonardo da Vinci" of the same type as "Novorossiysk" in the port of Taranto, due to negligence when loading ammunition, their detonation occurred. 248 people were killed, the battleship sank at a depth of 11 m, the Italians spent three years on its rise. So the sabotage of the Austro-Hungarian saboteurs was officially named the cause of the explosion.

    And here for a change the diversion of the British
  23. vladcub
    vladcub 26 October 2019 21: 32
    +3
    The author expressed an interesting version, but the reasoning is at the level: "this is so because I want it so". Not seriously..
    Kamrad Ken below suggested that a mine bank or Italians.
    Maybe so: the Italian found bottom mines and installed a magnetic mine. That is my version: a bottom mine and revenge of Borgose
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 26 October 2019 22: 14
      +2
      "the Italian found bottom mines and set a magnetic mine" ////
      -----
      This is a very realistic option. Scuba divers did not have to lug
      carry a large explosive charge. Explosives already lay under the ship - German
      bottom mines. It remains only to detonate one of them with a small magnetic
      mine.
      1. Town Hall
        Town Hall 26 October 2019 22: 33
        +3
        "Recognition" that this is the handiwork of Italian saboteurs, this stuff comes from.
        Ugo D'Esposito, ex incursore del mitico Gruppo Gamma della Xma Mas, esperto di codici cifrati, agente dei servizi segreti. La sua risposta, contenuta nel libro, è semplice e schietta: “Siamo stati noi, noi della Decima Mas. Nessuno voleva che il Giulio Cesare andasse ai sovietici, quindi doveva essere affondata. Io non ho partecipato direttamente all'azione contro il Novorossiysk, ho partecipato a un'azione per affondarne un'altra: ma quella volta c'era sicuramente Eugenio Volk, il comandante del Gruppo Gamma, e Junio ​​Valerio Borghese, comandante era certamente informato. Non servivano tanti uomini per portare a termine la missione, il gruppo era composto da cinque incursori, non di più, perfettamente addestrati ".
        Hugo D'Esposito, ransomware from the Gamma 10th MAC.
        "We did it. 10th MAS. Nobody wanted Giulio Cesare to be handed over to the Soviets, so it was decided to sink it. I was not directly involved in the operation with Novorossiysk, but I took part in another one, also connected with the transferred Italian ship. I definitely participated in the operation. Eugenio Volk and Borghese knew about the operation. The group consisted of 5 well-trained fighters. "
      2. Avior
        Avior 26 October 2019 22: 54
        +6
        That is, the Italians began a complex operation in the expectation that it is under this battleship that there is a bottom mine?
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 26 October 2019 23: 00
          +1
          No. They wanted to blow it up. They made reconnaissance.
          Found that under it are German mines. The task is simplified ...
          The option is more or less realistic.
          Or bottom mines themselves detonated. But usually there is some kind of trigger.
          1. Avior
            Avior 27 October 2019 00: 11
            +7
            They made reconnaissance.

            And so you imagine it?
            The Soviet Navy did not know what these mines were, and the Italians by RA-two.
            In addition, the explosion occurred a few hours after the mooring - the Italians had to
            1. To know that he, in principle, will be in the base at this time - he might not have been, but they sent submariners
            2. Know that he will be in this place, because he could not even moor there
            3. Know in advance exactly where the mines lie.
            4. Make sure that it was he who came.
            And all together, and each munt individually is unrealistic.
            Starting from the fact that the group was not known where they were sent, because at that time the ship was generally at sea
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 27 October 2019 00: 30
              +3
              If not Italians, then spontaneous detonation of bottom mines.
              The bottom of the case clearly received a hydraulic shock. So looked
              submarine hull after the explosion of depth charges.
              1. Avior
                Avior 27 October 2019 05: 51
                +2
                The fact that it was at least one bottom mine is the main version, and, in fact, there is no reason for doubt.
                As for the second explosive version, that this is the detonation of ammunition from a flooded barge, but I do not really believe that the second explosion was single, which means one large ammunition, which says that the second explosion was a mine explosion.
                It just raises big questions about saboteurs of any kind, Italians, British, Americans, anyway who allegedly blew up the ship literally a few hours after it arrived at the base.
                In addition to the fact that the penetration of saboteurs into the Sevastopol Bay in peacetime is in itself an unthinkable thing, not to mention the preliminary underwater reconnaissance of mines drowned in viscous silt, the time factor itself clearly shows, in my opinion, the impossibility of such an action under those conditions what were.
                hi
            2. Town Hall
              Town Hall 27 October 2019 00: 31
              0
              Several parts of the flotilla were stationed near Borghese in the Crimea in 1942/44. There were also bases there
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 27 October 2019 10: 00
            +1
            Alexey hi How do you imagine this intelligence? Where was the main carrier of saboteurs: 1). The submarine, but where did it come from, by this time all the swimmers were already private individuals.
            2). Surface ship? Whatever flag it may fly under, it would never be allowed into the Akhtiar bay, and sailing from the Cossacks in an oxygen tank is not serious.
            3). The last thing remains - they came to Sevastopol as tourists diving with scuba gear. laughing , this is more real, but still from the realm of fantasy.
            In short, these saboteurs went back and forth under the water for several nights and searched for mines, found, left and returned with an initiating charge, and all this in the center of the largest military base. You yourself are not funny?
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 27 October 2019 11: 06
              +3
              It happened in peacetime. The Soviet fleet did not have any visible opponents in the Black Sea. I suppose the fleet has relaxed. And the Italians, if you recall, succeeded in sabotage against the British bases at the height of the war, when they guarded the raids in earnest.
              1) the Italian version has only indirect evidence - the recognition of saboteurs.
              2) the English version has no evidence.
              And the body concave inward does not agree with the hypothesis of an explosion from the inside.
              3) the version of spontaneous detonation of bottom mines is also rather weak. There had to be a trigger.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 27 October 2019 11: 20
                -2
                Alexey, I agree with you on all three points. There is no talk at all about the English version - everything is written with a pitchfork on the water.
                With regard to Italian ... For me, everything depends on the medium that brought the performers to Sevastopol. Yes, peacetime, yes, compared to the war days, we relaxed, in some way, but ... We have always acted on the principle of "it is better to stay out", so I don’t think that there could be some kind of submarine that would not she is an anti-submarine line. What then?
                Somehow, few people pay attention to this factor, but it, in general, is decisive.
                And in a fuse with a deceleration set in advance, even less is believed, i.e. I can’t believe it at all. hi
      3. tlauicol
        tlauicol 27 October 2019 05: 08
        +7
        And if you hadn’t found it? Would destroy a battleship 10 kg of TNT? laughing Like, I’m going to swim - suddenly there’s a mine cluster there. And if not, then I’ll go back and drag 2 tons - until Friday I’m completely free
      4. Catfish
        Catfish 27 October 2019 10: 16
        -1
        Alexei, it’s impossible to do this in scuba gear - they will immediately give out air bubbles bursting from the apparatus to the surface. Only oxygen with a closed breathing pattern. But the equipment still needs to be delivered to Sevastopol, on what?
  24. Old26
    Old26 26 October 2019 21: 38
    +5
    Quote: Aviator_
    And who could give the order in defeated Italy and provide all the technical means, primarily delivery vehicles?

    Italy since 1949 a member of NATO. so that the hands of the Italian fighting swimmers could do it. And to whom to give orders and equip technical means is not a particularly difficult question.

    By the way, in the late 80s and early 90s, there were several serious publications on this topic in the "Marine Sbornik" magazine. All versions were considered ...
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 27 October 2019 19: 55
      +2
      And the author’s version, that the internal explosion drove the metal inward?
  25. Basarev
    Basarev 26 October 2019 23: 05
    -3
    It is strange that the Union did so toothless and agreed to the ruin of the times of the First World War. Could call, speak from a position of strength. In general, it is very significant. The pre-war (in the sense, to the First) ship, far from the most powerful military power and far from the most developed, not at all a naval fashion trendsetter ... It turned out to be the strongest ship in the Black Sea Fleet - they simply do not give the flagship. The true level of the technological lag of the USSR is immediately visible.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 26 October 2019 23: 09
      +3
      Quote: Basarev
      It is strange that the Union did so toothless and agreed to the ruin of the times of the First World War. Could call, speak from a position of strength.

      The trophy fleet was divided according to the principle of who gets what. It seems like they wrote the names of the ships on pieces of paper, and then they pulled them out of their hats.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 26 October 2019 23: 27
        -7
        I used to think that there were clear agreements - who needs what boats. And it is clear that the superpowers (the Union climbed from the age of 45) rely the very best. That is just Littorio. But here the Union was bred like a sucker, they handed in an illiquid asset, to nobody needing junk. Hold on, wretched, that we are worthless.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 27 October 2019 00: 09
          +3
          Quote: Basarev
          But here the Union was bred like a sucker, handed illiquid,

          AVT wrote about this to me. Just no luck in this lottery.
          1. Basarev
            Basarev 27 October 2019 00: 15
            -4
            Oh, such an AVT?
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 27 October 2019 00: 20
              +1
              Quote: Basarev
              Oh, such an AVT?

              Our forum member. The same old-timer, like you. Must remember, probably. wink
      2. Amurets
        Amurets 27 October 2019 02: 33
        +4
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        The trophy fleet was divided according to the principle of who gets what. It seems like they wrote the names of the ships on pieces of paper, and then they pulled them out of their hats.

        Everything is correct. There is not one article on this topic, just give links. https://topwar.ru/86053-kak-delili-germanskiy-flot-chast-ii.html
        https://flot.com/blog/piton56/43972.php
        https://wiki.wargaming.net/ru/Navy:%D0%A2%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%84%D0%B5%D0%B8_%D0%B8_%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%92%D0%9C%D0%A4_%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A0_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B5_%D0%92%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD%D1%8B
      3. vladcub
        vladcub 27 October 2019 08: 06
        +3
        This has already been published. And one of the comrades recalled this yesterday
  26. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 27 October 2019 08: 08
    0
    No need to invent too much. Everything that seems very complicated can be very simple. For example, there is such a hypothesis: naval miners conducted training on the mining of the ship, according to our disorder, instead of training charges, they were placed combat. After the death of the ship, everything was classified in order not to be dishonored.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 27 October 2019 10: 17
      +3
      Quote: Jurkovs
      For example, there is such a hypothesis: naval miners conducted training on the mining of the ship, according to our disorder, instead of training charges, they were placed combat. After the death of the ship, everything was classified in order not to be dishonored.

      This is how many charges do you need to cause such damage?
      1. Saxahorse
        Saxahorse 27 October 2019 20: 39
        +1
        Quote: Amurets
        This is how many charges do you need to cause such damage?

        This was what the Italian said. What are we talking about tons of TNT, so many do not drag underwater swimmers. The assumption of detonation of a flooded barge with ammunition was mentioned above.
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 27 October 2019 22: 44
          +2
          Quote: Saxahorse
          The assumption of detonation of a flooded barge with ammunition was mentioned above.

          The version of the barge with ammunition raises doubts because at the end of 1944 and beginning of 1945, in preparation for the Yalta Conference, security measures were taken and I do not think that such a rather large object as a barge with ammunition could go unnoticed and not destroyed in the area around the mooring barrels.
          Sevastopol greets guests

          While negotiations were being held in Yalta, the Black Sea Fleet ensured the safe parking of American and English ships arriving in Sevastopol for communication between the heads of government of the countries participating in the Yalta Conference.

          After completing the first part of the mission, three American minesweepers entered the Sevastopol Bay, the US President Roosevelt’s communications ship Katoktin, and the British Navy’s command ship, which earlier operated on the London-Sydney line, William Blount military transport. Having heard about the serious mine danger on the approaches to Sevastopol, the Americans took with them minesweepers.

          The escort and staging of foreign ships in the Sevastopol Bay was provided by the naval service of the Black Sea Fleet. Before staging the American and British ships at the berths, the raid of the Sevastopol Bay was once again carefully examined for the presence of German bottom mines. Security ships of the Black Sea Fleet blocked the entrance to the Sevastopol Bay in case of possible sabotage. The British headquarters ship stood on barrels on the north side, and the American communications ship was delivered at the Ugolny berth
          https://sevastopol.su/special-projects/sekretnaya-operaciya-argonavt
          1. Saxahorse
            Saxahorse 28 October 2019 00: 25
            0
            Quote: Amurets
            Before staging the American and British ships at the berths, the raid of the Sevastopol Bay was once again carefully examined for the presence of German bottom mines.

            However, while it is known that several more bottom mines after the death of the battleship were still found.

            It is not so easy to find something in the thick, semi-liquid silt of the Sevastopol Bay. This is not an aquarium with sand. There, which only over the centuries did not drop to the bottom and the uneven bottom, and the appearance of zero for complete happiness.

            Judging by the photos of the damage to the bottom, it is difficult to believe the version of the explosion inside the ship. If the charge were adjacent to the case from the inside or even from the outside, the brisance of the explosive would certainly have affected, the leaves of the skin would be torn and disheveled.
            1. Amurets
              Amurets 28 October 2019 01: 03
              +1
              Quote: Saxahorse
              However, while it is known that several more bottom mines after the death of the battleship were still found.

              I agree with you, especially since mines have been found in Sevastopol until recently. That at the beginning of the Second World War, there were no means of dealing with magnetic mines, except for demagnetizing the hulls of ships. They tried to destroy acoustic and magneto-acoustic mines by driving torpedo boats and "Sea Hunters" on raids, bombing the squares where the mines fell, with depth charges. . This I met in many memoirs of sailors. And the film "Allegro with Fire" quite truthfully tells about the essence of the problem of fighting magnetic mines.
              I have doubts about the version with a barge with ammunition near the anchorage.
              1. Saxahorse
                Saxahorse 29 October 2019 00: 06
                +1
                Quote: Amurets
                I have doubts about the version with a barge with ammunition near the anchorage.

                As far as I understand, it was a question of small supply lighters. The remains of something like this were found in a funnel under a battleship. But she could just wallow at the bottom.

                I read a little about German bottom mines. 1) Type LMB, aluminum case, 690.39 kg. hexonite, 2) type RMH, wooden case, 907.184kg hexonite. In TNT equivalent it is 1000-1400 kg. BB Also more than worthy.
  27. dgonni
    dgonni 27 October 2019 08: 53
    +1
    The first one! Kirov also blew up on a bottom mine and nearly drowned! But the depths were by no means similar! And the funnel is small in the place of blasting for one reason, rocky ground!
    And Kuznetsov and the admirals were removed correctly, for they had to try hard to drown the battleship in their harbor!
    P.S. Novorossiysk for 1955 was wild junk and its value as a warship at that time was striving for zero!
  28. geniy
    geniy 27 October 2019 10: 14
    0
    Question to the author: please clarify the issue of the prolonged lack of gasoline in the nasal tanks? that is, whether there was a seaplane on Novorossiysk in 1955, and if it was then for flights he needed gasoline. And also clarify the issue with the bow diesel power station - did you need diesel to power it? The stock of which, of course, is hundreds of times less than the main fuel (fuel oil) for boiler plants., But still this could be enough for an explosion.
  29. Flatter
    Flatter 27 October 2019 11: 35
    +2
    Germany produced underwater magnetoacoustic mines weighing up to 2 tons. Dry elements, such as KBS, can retain capacity under normal conditions for decades. A relative who served at the Black Sea Fleet at that time, who witnessed the explosion on the shore, was firmly convinced, and not only he, that the ship was blown up by a mine
    1. frog
      frog 27 October 2019 15: 40
      +1
      Observations of a batch of German trophy batteries in the Soviet Navy of the USSR in the amount of 244 sets consisting of elements of the ECT type manufactured in 1943-1944 make it possible to fairly accurately assess the probability of failure-free operation of M-2 proximity fuses (V.Yu.G. Author of the book. The RMH mine could be equipped exclusively with M1) in bottom mines of the RMH type. The self-discharge of batteries was monitored under laboratory conditions since 1948, i.e. after four years from the date of their manufacture. For a battery failure, the fact of a voltage drop below 7 V.
      Of the 244 batteries after 4 years from the date of manufacture, 110 (45%) were not operational
      after 5 years - 159 (65%),
      after 6 years - 195 (80%),
      after 7 years - 226 (92,5%),
      after 8 years - 241 (98,8%),
      after 9 years - 244 (100%).
      1. Flatter
        Flatter 27 October 2019 17: 13
        +1
        In the same place, if I am not mistaken, it is noted that the residual capacity necessary for the fuses to operate was not checked.
        There is such information, the first of which is given in the book of B.A. Karzhavin:

        "... c) the battery of the 9-volt liquidator of the" C "mine, disarmed on October 3, 1955, manufactured on week 47 of 1941, had existed for 14 years at the time of disarmament. It had a voltage: V = 8,5 volts, V at 100 ohms = 8,2 volts and V at 60 ohms == 6 volts, which was quite enough for a fuse to explode (actually tested with a light bulb) ... ".

        The second came from a retired naval mine specialist from Wilhelmshaven (asked not to be named):

        "... 20 years after the end of the war, they detonated a German magnetic mine with a magnetic trawl."

        https://www.liveinternet.ru/community/1106169/post122624580/
        1. frog
          frog 27 October 2019 17: 27
          0
          Given that there were enough mines .... enough, but only this one was blown up, sorry, sobbed, which had no practical value, it all sounds strange. The charge for German products was, EMNIP, less than 700 kg. That does not add up to the resulting destruction. But even if we assume that this is so, then we will have to admit the utter gouging of the fleet command, as the Black Sea Fleet itself, in general. they have dozens of workable mines lying around in the database, and they don’t even blow into the mustache. 10 years....
          1. Flatter
            Flatter 28 October 2019 16: 05
            0
            The well-known saying, the fall of an icicle is a regularity, for someone's mind, this accident also applies to this story, where the mine appeared in the role of an icicle.
  30. DRM
    DRM 27 October 2019 11: 52
    0
    The end of the article is simply epic: the British blew it up, BUT Khrushchev is to blame. How long can the modern political mainstream be attracted to the analysis of old historical events "by the ears" ?!
    PS. And the English version is really convincing.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 27 October 2019 20: 05
      +3
      And how did the English initiate the explosion? This is the first, and now the second: how did the metal go inside?
  31. NF68
    NF68 27 October 2019 14: 25
    +1
    the cruiser received a general shell shell ship


    Cool. It turns out that ships also receive a general concussion.
  32. BAI
    BAI 27 October 2019 17: 05
    0
    The version is quite believable.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 27 October 2019 20: 11
      +3
      With a "ship concussion"? I'm not going to justify the British at all, but V.N .: it was possible to mount the fuses in the shells. Not as you wish, but the author's version is curious, but with complete zero argmentation
  33. sibiryouk
    sibiryouk 27 October 2019 20: 24
    0
    No mine could destroy the battleship! Battleship is not a barge, not a boat! During the 2nd World War, there was not a single case of the sinking of a battleship with a mine; destroyers, leaders, or other ships of similar size were killed. The battleship is too big a goal - you need a bunch of at least 3 bottom mines detonated in the most vulnerable place under the bottom (This, incidentally, was indicated in the conclusions of the government commission in 1955)
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 28 October 2019 06: 30
      +1

      here the weather drowns Cesare battleship Odeshies, having been blown up on a mine of mountainaaaaaazdo of less power
  34. Saxahorse
    Saxahorse 27 October 2019 20: 35
    0
    Quote: Amurets
    moreover, cut strips of smokeless powder were nailed to the boots.

    Exactly! I remembered this story. Of course, there could be saboteurs, but their slobs are much more common with enemies. Not one shpien will come up with such a thing.
  35. enky
    enky 27 October 2019 22: 13
    +1
    The version with Italian swimmers, and any swimmers already stationed in advance near the bay, who know which and where the ship will moor, walking around the military base in a submarine, and even on mini-torpedoes with a shuttle from a submarine carrying 2000 kg of explosives in October water 12 degrees or "imperceptibly" trawling the bay in search of mines not found in 10 years, otherwise they forgot their explosives at home ... this version, frankly from the category of fantasy, "Star Wars" looks much more realistic ... With pensioner Borghese sleeping and seeing, as it were 10 years later, sinking a rather outdated ship is generally out of the area of ​​distraction. If everyone is so sure of sabotage, then why does no one ask the main questions: Why this particular ship? If, nevertheless, the choice of the target is not accidental, then what task could Novorossiysk perform and where, and when? Whose plans could be thwarted? A rather realistic version sounded about a trip to the Mediterranean Sea with 1.5 thousand troops on board, but it was also blown away in Romania ... And what, in 1955-56, nothing interesting was started in Middle-earth? Doesn't the privatization of the Suez Canal count? It turns out that Israel and a number of allied countries are preparing for the seizure of Sinai in 1955 and the seizure itself in 1956 to the point that the USSR threatened to send troops, and the United States exerted political pressure, such trifles in the region do not count and are not interesting to anyone?
  36. tlauicol
    tlauicol 28 October 2019 05: 35
    +1
    Quote: Amurets

    This is how many charges do you need to cause such damage?

    the equivalent of 1200kg of TNT. The Germans were more powerful. And the place of the explosion is not armored.
    Dunkirk is the newest battleship. explosion of 1400kg TE in the area of ​​the armored belt + armored decks, which Caesar never dreamed of - 225mm side + 180mm decks through and through
  37. Unknown
    Unknown 28 October 2019 08: 18
    0
    reading the comments you wonder how many versions you can’t read, and of course the author poured pepper to taste, only the British and the point. they do not obey the Americans, and are free to make decisions themselves. rave. if you turn on your head and ask yourself the question, what combat value, was the battleship of the time of P.M. in 1955? with the development of missile weapons, and jet aircraft? yes not what. another three years, well, a maximum of five, and they themselves scrapped him. the time of battleships is a thing of the past in P.M. the war. in V.M. war, besides the battle, Bismarck, with, thin, there were no more battles between battleships. almost all the warring states kept their expensive battleships at their bases, and at best allowed themselves. rare exits to the sea, and at worst were subjected to air strikes, and drowned at their own bases, like the same Italians, ours in Kronstad, and Americans, in pearl harbor. the time of battleships is a thing of the past. And to think that for the sake of this junk, the British, or pasta, will carry out a special operation, with the threat of the start of a third world, but already nuclear, is already the height of fantasy. in real life there are no fools in the world. there is an official point of view, and along the way it is true.
  38. Alsur
    Alsur 28 October 2019 11: 31
    0
    Quote: Sea Cat
    The reason was established by the NKVD in the thirties after the arrest of German agents in Nikolaev. The explosion of the "Empress" is a sabotage.

    Quote: Ken71
    And they were agents of England, France, Japan and Burkina Faso. What did the investigators find on the map

    You are laughing in vain, maybe now the NKVD of the USSR sounds comical for you, but in addition to the attributed bloodthirstiness, we must remember that he became the forerunner of the KGB of the USSR, and of the FSB of the Russian Federation. And the investigation really was and saboteurs were exposed, they were Russian ethnic Germans.
  39. Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 28 October 2019 13: 32
    0
    There is no doubt that Novorossiysk was destroyed by the British, although this does not remove responsibility from Khrushchev and his Bandera half-admirals, such as Porkhomenko, for the extremely poor security of the Sevastopol military base ... I hope that someday there will be people in Russian special forces who want to take revenge for the vile murder of Russian sailors and some sort of British ship, such as the aircraft carrier Queen Elizabeth, will fly into the air ....
  40. svp67
    svp67 28 October 2019 19: 40
    +2
    It will be worthwhile to emphasize once again that by 1955 all the batteries of the surviving German bottom mines were completely discharged (incapable).
    I read a book with materials on the investigation of this catastrophe, and there is a report from one of our institutes, which says that when examining German bottom mines that were discovered just at that time, it showed that on a very small part of them, but the batteries kept their minimum performance
    1. Saxahorse
      Saxahorse 28 October 2019 23: 57
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      I read a book with materials on the investigation of this catastrophe, and there is a report from one of our institutes, which says that when examining German bottom mines that were discovered just at that time, it showed that on a very small part of them, but the batteries kept their minimum performance

      This is probably - in the book of B.A. Karzhavin:
      "... c) the battery of the 9-volt liquidator of the" S "mine, disarmed on October 3, 1955, manufactured on week 47 of 1941, had existed for 14 years at the time of disarmament. It had a voltage: V = 8,5 volts, V at 100 ohms = 8,2 volts and V at 60 ohms == 6 volts, which was quite enough for the fuse to explode (actually tested with a light bulb) ... "


      or here:
      The second came from a retired naval mine specialist from Wilhelmshaven (asked not to be named):
      "... 20 years after the end of the war, they detonated a German magnetic mine with a magnetic trawl."


      Those. some batteries were still operational. But the mines were there.
      "divers discovered 1951 LMB mines and 53 RMH mines in 5-19"
  41. Operator
    Operator 29 October 2019 13: 33
    0
    Quote: Per se.
    As for the directed explosion, it could have been at the location of the main charge in the ship's hull

    In this case, the edges of the holes in the bottom would be bent outward.
  42. Denimax
    Denimax 29 October 2019 18: 36
    0
    Mines can be very simple and also dodgy ammunition. Suppose the enemy realized that this mooring place is very convenient for large ships. In my opinion, you can lay a simple charge, given that the ship drops anchor and pulls. In short, the mine itself has an anchor and loop cables for which the ship’s anchor itself can catch. Mine anchor tension can be triggered by a chemical or galvanic fuse. It turns out that here the batteries are not needed at all, only the tightness of the structure is needed.
  43. Pyctam
    Pyctam 3 February 2020 18: 33
    0
    And I thought something was really new to the article ... This is just a retelling of an article from the magazine "Modelist-Constructor" as much as a quarter of a century ago. In general, PLAGIUM.