Military Review

NATO decided to return to using maps and compass

170
Belgian army personnel participating in NATO missions will be trained in the use of a compass and topographic maps in the event of a failure of GPS devices whose signals may be vulnerable. It is reported by the Belgian edition The morning with reference to own sources.


NATO decided to return to using maps and compass


According to the publication, the Belgian military began training with topographic maps and a compass due to concerns about the vulnerability of GPS devices. The sad experience of the failure of the electronics, the newspaper writes, occurred last year during the NATO exercises in Norway, where Russia allegedly disrupted the GPS system, thereby trying to interfere with the alliance’s maneuvers.

Belgian soldiers must train again with a map and compass. Not because of nostalgia, but because of necessity: the army command is concerned about the vulnerability of GPS devices. Russia has proven that their signals are easily broken

- says the article.

At the same time, the source notes that in the Belgian army more and more training is carried out using staff maps and compass navigation. The Belgian Ministry of Defense declined to comment on this information, citing "operational security considerations." As noted, a similar trend is observed in the armies of other NATO member states.

Last year, the Norwegian military leadership and the Finnish Foreign Ministry accused Russia of allegedly interfering with the GPS system during the NATO Trident Juncture ("Single Trident") exercise. According to NATO, Russia allegedly suppressed GPS signals, thereby trying to prevent the alliance from conducting exercises.
170 comments
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  1. Tavrik
    Tavrik 22 October 2019 18: 59
    +23
    And we didn’t leave the compass and map anywhere!
    Technological progress made a circle and returned to its original position.
    1. figwam
      figwam 22 October 2019 19: 09
      +21
      You look and the curvimeter will return.
      1. maxim947
        maxim947 22 October 2019 19: 19
        +13
        And where without it when working with a card.
        They’ll remember about astronomy, and they’ll probably only swim around the navigator .. sorry - they go)
        1. figwam
          figwam 22 October 2019 19: 22
          +14
          Quote: maxim947
          and then probably only on the navigator and swim .. sorry - go)

          No, swim)
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 22 October 2019 21: 59
          +8
          Quote: maxim947
          And where without it when working with a card.

        3. Gnefredov
          Gnefredov 22 October 2019 23: 04
          +1
          Well, since the development of astronavigation systems was part of my personal responsibilities (I gave seven years if not more to these subsystems), then you will get a “fierce plus for your comment”.
          good
        4. Chit
          Chit 22 October 2019 23: 29
          0
          Yes, there seems to have been friends with astronomy. And they didn’t remove them from school programs, as in Russia.
          1. orionvitt
            orionvitt 23 October 2019 09: 33
            +1
            Quote: Chit
            not removed from school curricula

            In the west, all the exact, scientific subjects at school are studied in general. (that is, in general). The main emphasis is on the promotion of tolerance, and the like.
      2. venik
        venik 22 October 2019 19: 46
        +2
        Quote: figvam
        You look and the curvimeter will return.

        ========
        You look, and the Belgian "warriors" - will teach to read and write ... And if you also count - oo-oo-oo-oo !!!!! There will be no stronger army ... laughing
      3. geon
        geon 22 October 2019 20: 17
        +7
        for fragile minds, the name of this device can cause mental harm wassat
        1. raw174
          raw174 22 October 2019 21: 23
          +4
          Quote: geoan
          for fragile minds, the name of this device can cause mental harm

          "Where is your curvimeter?
          - I'm a family man, I can't use such things, I have a wife and a father-in-law! "Maybe not exactly, from the m / s" Destructive Power ")))
        2. Grits
          Grits 23 October 2019 02: 31
          +2
          Quote: geoan
          for fragile minds, the name of this device can cause mental harm

          Just yesterday I was in my wife's shop and asked for a curvimeter. She looked at me unkindly and asked, what kind of crap is this? Well, at least the saleswoman knew what it was. Since I ordered her to bring. Prior to this, the sellers did not know
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 23 October 2019 11: 37
            +3
            Quote: Gritsa
            Prior to this, the sellers did not know

            Any competent person, when he sees a road worker with a stick and a wheel measuring the width or length of the carriageway, will immediately remember the curvimeter - as they say, an enlarged copy of the curvimeter is still used.
      4. a.hamster55
        a.hamster55 22 October 2019 21: 36
        +2
        So I have a father, on one side miles and km. and on the other inches, and occasionally use it.
        1. Piramidon
          Piramidon 22 October 2019 21: 47
          0
          Quote: a.hamster55
          I occasionally use it.

          The size of the head before buying a hat can be measured.
      5. Petrograd
        Petrograd 23 October 2019 00: 28
        +6
        Quote: figvam
        You look and the curvimeter will return.

        The slide rule, I think they’ll drive them crazy, there are no batteries, they don’t need to connect to the Internet, and the wooden laughing
        1. Grits
          Grits 23 October 2019 02: 32
          +1
          Quote: Petrograd
          The slide rule, I think they’ll drive them crazy

          But this device is already a dark forest for me.
      6. Grits
        Grits 23 October 2019 02: 25
        +1
        Quote: figvam
        You look and the curvimeter will return.

        You will be surprised, but now the big problem is to buy a curvimeter in bookstores, as it was before. I’ve been looking for half a year and can’t find
      7. aszzz888
        aszzz888 23 October 2019 02: 46
        +1
        figvam (Sergey) Yesterday, 19: 09 NEW
        +13
        You look and the curvimeter will return.

        Where there are maps, there is also a curvimeter.
        Curvimeter is a device for measuring the length of curving lines, most often on topographic maps, plans and drawings. The curvimeter consists of a gear roller of known diameter on the handle and a counter of the number of teeth passed. To measure the length of the curve, a curvimeter roller is rolled along it
    2. Greg Miller
      Greg Miller 22 October 2019 19: 20
      +2
      And missiles, when flying to the target, will also use the map and compass?
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 22 October 2019 19: 28
        -1
        Instead of LDPE, a white cane will be installed on missiles bully
      2. Pereira
        Pereira 22 October 2019 19: 32
        +2
        Watch the movie "Be the First, Freddie". There is a biological guidance system. The secret is revealed at the end of the film. I will not tell.
        1. hly
          hly 22 October 2019 21: 00
          0
          Post pigeon? The main thing is to return home laughing
          1. Pereira
            Pereira 22 October 2019 22: 00
            0
            It is necessary to buy pigeons in the Baltic states. Baltic pigeons do not return home.
          2. aszzz888
            aszzz888 23 October 2019 02: 50
            +1
            hly (Eugene) Yesterday, 21: 00 NEW
            0
            Post pigeon? The main thing is to return home laughing
            Just not like in the movie
            https://www.kinopoisk.ru/film/63887/video/150616/
            wink That
            Pereira (Michael) Yesterday, 19: 32 NEW
            He also pointed to this.
      3. venik
        venik 22 October 2019 19: 47
        +2
        Quote: Greg Miller
        And missiles, when flying to the target, will also use the map and compass?

        =======
        Nah! There adding machine will put!
      4. not main
        not main 22 October 2019 21: 11
        +2
        Quote: Greg Miller
        And missiles, when flying to the target, will also use the map and compass?

        But do not they use it? Doppler system, and just gyroscopes ...
        1. Greg Miller
          Greg Miller 22 October 2019 21: 14
          0
          Quote: non-primary
          Quote: Greg Miller
          And missiles, when flying to the target, will also use the map and compass?

          But do not they use it? Doppler system, and just gyroscopes ...

          Well then, this weapon already immediately ceases to be precision ...
          1. not main
            not main 22 October 2019 21: 30
            0
            Quote: Greg Miller
            Quote: non-primary
            Quote: Greg Miller
            And missiles, when flying to the target, will also use the map and compass?

            But do not they use it? Doppler system, and just gyroscopes ...

            Well then, this weapon already immediately ceases to be precision ...

            But it remains reliable and if you "miss" a nuclear charge by 300 meters, then it does not matter!
            1. Greg Miller
              Greg Miller 22 October 2019 21: 31
              0
              And then whom will NATO bomb these charges?
              1. not main
                not main 22 October 2019 22: 43
                0
                Quote: Greg Miller
                And then whom will NATO bomb these charges?

                Well, you need to turn it out? Did I even mention NATO? Although you are right! They have such systems. And they will bomb the city! And the bigger the city the better! Fortunately, they have experience, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the closest example!
    3. tol100v
      tol100v 22 October 2019 19: 23
      +1
      Quote: Tavrik
      And we didn’t leave the compass and map anywhere!

      Paper media have long proven their worth! And there will be no questions about the battery "sat down", or the signal disappeared! Robotization is good. But a Russian soldier swearing - Better!
      1. Aerodrome
        Aerodrome 22 October 2019 19: 29
        -1
        NATO decided to return to using maps and compass
        this is bad .. it’s not worth hammering a mosk with this husk. stop yes
        1. not main
          not main 22 October 2019 23: 09
          +4
          Quote: Aerodrome
          NATO decided to return to using maps and compass
          this is bad .. it’s not worth hammering a mosk with this husk. stop yes

          I would like to see how you get out of the forest without this "husk", not otherwise, as on the couch arguing! Especially "mosk" plunged, you must not know your language to such an extent!
      2. Grits
        Grits 23 October 2019 02: 42
        0
        I wonder what a NATO soldier would say about the purpose of a set of such "complex items")




    4. tol100v
      tol100v 22 October 2019 20: 02
      +5
      Quote: Tavrik
      And we didn’t leave the compass and map anywhere!

      Well, what are you clever !? Better show your hand!
    5. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 22 October 2019 20: 05
      -2
      Not a circle, but a spiral.
      Instead of GPS, a new, more robust system is being developed, capable of
      distinguish, for example, a real signal from a fake one.
      Do not have the illusion that satellite communications will be easy
      drown out. The number of satellites is growing rapidly.
      One SpaceX has made applications for 42,000 new satellites.
      And global positioning support will be included
      in a mobile network.
      1. Ural-4320
        Ural-4320 22 October 2019 20: 28
        0
        Soon it will be like in the cartoon Wall-I, when he hooked on a rocket and flew to Axiom. laughing
      2. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 22 October 2019 20: 51
        +4
        I can apply for a million satellites. And can I do so much and run? Secondly, the GPS receiver may fail - then what should I do? Moreover, the situation is more than real. A friend said - his son flew to Afghanistan on Mi - 8. At some mattress super - duper helicopter, I do not remember the name - I do not want to lie. The system crashes, the GPS receiver is dead, and the pilot cannot read the map. An hour our pilot drove the mattress behind his tail to the base, because our pravak is guided by the map.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 22 October 2019 21: 47
          -1
          "Will I be able to do so much and run?" /////
          -----
          To do - exactly, yes.
          Communication satellites learned to sculpt like pies. Standard, compact.
          Run - there are disputes. The recent trial launch of Falcon with 60 satellites,
          when the second stage of the rocket "fired" them in a continuous burst as
          from a machine gun, gave an example. It was a test. Only three of 60 did not earn.
          This week there will be a second "machine gun burst" (the same 1st stage).
          After 3-4 starts, they will check the network's ability to receive signals.
          If the calculations are confirmed, "mascara the light" - we will see more in the night sky
          satellites than stars. recourse
      3. akims
        akims 22 October 2019 21: 16
        0
        Talk about the introduction of a new global positioning system has been going on for a long time, but it still doesn’t reach the introduction. The chip of such a system is precisely in the complete absence of the satellite segment and ground stations. The coordinates are supposed to be determined using the Earth's magnetic field. Current systems are very vulnerable and expensive. Let's see how it goes on ....
      4. Aqr009
        Aqr009 22 October 2019 23: 13
        +1
        Do not have the illusion that satellite communications will be easy
        drown out. The number of satellites is growing rapidly.

        Not all satellites are jammed, but only those in a certain area.
        When installing interference, it is much easier to replace the signal, as the satellite begins to feverishly adjust to overcome the interference.
        Naturally, he will not be able to overcome them, because the energy supply in it is obviously less than in the interference installer.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 22 October 2019 23: 33
          0
          Now there are very few GPS satellites. But (see above) their number will begin to grow soon
          in progression. And over each area there will be many of them.
          The idea that the Internet will go without providers. You buy a device for $ 200
          or a Chinese copy for ...? and secured. There is no censorship. Good or bad: ?
          But the Internet is of little power. Movies on it will not see.
          And so, news, etc. - please.
          1. Nastia makarova
            Nastia makarova 23 October 2019 07: 04
            0
            why then without normal speed then such internet?
      5. Petrograd
        Petrograd 23 October 2019 00: 36
        -1
        One SpaceX has made applications for 42,000 new satellites.
        - Forty-two thousand or 42 points? You have "," it is not clear ...
    6. Cut Samshitov
      Cut Samshitov 22 October 2019 21: 17
      +5
      And we didn’t leave the compass and map anywhere!
      Technological progress made a circle and returned to its original position.
      .D complained to me a year ago. armament regiment. Young lieutenants cannot use cards. ABSOLUTELY. On the art. firing rule on the application in smartphones. So the trouble is international.
    7. raw174
      raw174 22 October 2019 21: 18
      +3
      Quote: Tavrik
      And we didn’t leave the compass and map anywhere!

      Even a thread, in the absence of a curvimeter is applicable good
    8. L-39NG
      L-39NG 23 October 2019 08: 35
      0
      From October 11 to 20 in the mountains of Wales, in the United Kingdom, the next military international competitions Cambrian Patrol 2019 were held. They have been held since 1959.
      The track is 65 km, everything is dragged on itself - each 40 kg, the time is under 48 hours. The main goal is to be able to fight behind enemy lines. Reconnaissance, patrolling, ambushes, attack, release of prisoners, negotiations with the "rebels", medical aid, work in contaminated areas, taking the "language" and working with it. Cross the river by swimming at night. Working with unfamiliar weapons. This year, all of this was bolstered by rain and strong winds.

      Use of GPS is prohibited in these competitions.

      More than 100 groups from different countries participated.
  2. Nycomed
    Nycomed 22 October 2019 19: 00
    +3
    The right decision. The figure is not always good. good
    1. jjj
      jjj 22 October 2019 19: 24
      +2
      Others know how to travel by a pack of "Belomor". Seriously, how will NATO members become anchored to benchmarks?
      1. Terenin
        Terenin 22 October 2019 20: 01
        +5
        Quote: jjj
        Others know how to travel by a pack of "Belomor". Seriously, how will NATO members become anchored to benchmarks?

        What happened to NATO? belay Usually they accidentally poke on a world map, and then fight there.
    2. Major Yurik
      Major Yurik 22 October 2019 20: 08
      +3
      Quote: Nycomed
      The right decision. The figure is not always good. good

      Pralna, we will organize cooperatives for renting astrolabes and sextants for the "warriors of light" from Nata. A wide selection of Ivanov Susanins will also be presented, who will reliably lead the Pindo warriors into the forest thickets to meet with Lesh tete-a-tete. yes
  3. Observer2014
    Observer2014 22 October 2019 19: 01
    +1
    NATO decided to return to using maps and compass
    laughing Electronic "ponty" is certainly good. But you need to know the maps printed on paper. And be able to understand them. No impulse will destroy the printed card.
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 22 October 2019 19: 17
      -2
      No pulse will damage the printed card.

      Sergei hi , no impulse, except for "hitting the Globe in the region of Cherepovets" (approx. in military language - the defeat of the skull) will not incapacitate the brain, which even without a map will lead to victory. It has been tested on our own experience, when in the North Caucasus it was necessary to drive home, the necessary card, according to the law of meanness, never was. wink
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 22 October 2019 19: 20
        +6
        Quote: lexus
        No pulse will damage the printed card.

        Sergei hi , no impulse, except for "hitting the Globe in the region of Cherepovets" (approx. in military language - the defeat of the skull) will not incapacitate the brain, which even without a map will lead to victory. It has been tested on our own experience, when in the North Caucasus it was necessary to drive home, the necessary card, according to the law of meanness, never was. wink

        But it’s easier with the card, agree! If it's fresh, of course.
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 22 October 2019 19: 25
          -1
          If it's fresh, of course.

          Fresh 18 years did not come across, all were Soviet. Apparently, cartographers honor the law lol
          1. Aerodrome
            Aerodrome 22 October 2019 19: 31
            +5
            Quote: lexus
            If it's fresh, of course.

            Fresh 18 years did not come across, all were Soviet. Apparently, cartographers honor the law lol

            It was generally a matter of American use. horror.
            1. Lexus
              Lexus 22 October 2019 19: 37
              -4
              Where did you get it? As far as I remember in the 90s, Roskartografia, on the contrary, printed maps for the "American partners", since they were recognized as the most reliable (except for maps of Russia, of course, although oh-oh-very not sure). Maybe the "customer" received the necessary copies, and the rest was "rejected"?
              1. Aerodrome
                Aerodrome 22 October 2019 19: 50
                +4
                Quote: lexus
                Where did you please?

                Are you seriously ? and how long have we got satellite? request
                1. Lexus
                  Lexus 22 October 2019 20: 02
                  -2
                  I served in the old fashioned way. Although you didn't surprise me. Here "optimizers" all meteorological satellite constellation "derailed".
                  https://topcor.ru/11560-tri-invalida-na-orbite.html
                  Okay, civilian users are already used to the fact that the Roshydrometcentre only gives the exact weather for yesterday. But what about being a military? Aviation and Navy?
                  1. Aerodrome
                    Aerodrome 22 October 2019 20: 06
                    +1
                    Quote: lexus
                    "optimizers" all meteorological satellite constellation "derailed"

                    What am I for? and there is.
          2. Doliva63
            Doliva63 22 October 2019 20: 03
            +2
            Quote: lexus
            If it's fresh, of course.

            Fresh 18 years did not come across, all were Soviet. Apparently, cartographers honor the law lol

            Until the 91st card did not lie. Well, those on which in the upper right corner there was an appropriate inscription. Checked almost daily.
            1. Kerensky
              Kerensky 23 October 2019 03: 17
              0
              Until the 91st card did not lie. Well, those on which in the upper right corner there was an appropriate inscription.

              Valentine. But they didn’t say anything. In the Caucasus, every even patch of land is someone’s garden. So if you think (looking at the map), until dawn, skip this terrain above the village ... goodbye to stealth! Well, a lot of new roads have appeared.
              1. Doliva63
                Doliva63 23 October 2019 18: 47
                0
                Quote: Kerensky
                Until the 91st card did not lie. Well, those on which in the upper right corner there was an appropriate inscription.

                Valentine. But they didn’t say anything. In the Caucasus, every even patch of land is someone’s garden. So if you think (looking at the map), until dawn, skip this terrain above the village ... goodbye to stealth! Well, a lot of new roads have appeared.

                Large-scale usually did not lie, and they were often re-released. Another thing is that it was until some time.
        2. tol100v
          tol100v 22 October 2019 20: 06
          0
          Quote: Doliva63
          ! If it's fresh, of course.

          And a saucer with a blue border! Then yes!
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 22 October 2019 20: 12
            +1
            Quote: Tol100v
            Quote: Doliva63
            ! If it's fresh, of course.

            And a saucer with a blue border! Then yes!

            No, behind a saucer with a blue border - this is legs, legs.
      2. Observer2014
        Observer2014 22 October 2019 19: 34
        -5
        Lexus (Alex) hi By the way, you have described the old USSR-Rovsk problem yet. The absence in the units below the rank of cards. Suddenly, the soldiers will write something on them. The enemy will get laughing Many will say it’s not a motto. Maybe it can. This is total secrecy where it is not necessary. Often, bad jokes were played with our soldiers. My friend is the Major of the Bundeswehr. I talked about this in the late 90's. Imagine a major of the Bundeswehr! They studied us. And they study. And they know our vulnerabilities. I even tried to argue with him. But he understood and knew that this is so. Then this problem was transferred to the 90th Russian army. Now I don’t know. Our ordinary soldiers will be taught orienteering or not. But the fact that they don’t peel potatoes until morning is already good.
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 22 October 2019 19: 50
          0
          The absence in the units below the rank of cards. Suddenly, the soldiers will write on them what

          Soldiers were not given them at all when I served. Yes, and he drove with an empty one. What for? At the Central Dispatch Center, he could draw the entire grouping from memory on a "blank". At the same time, clowns came to instruct in the positions of deputy. regiment commander with painted maps and "bleated" amicably with their administration. I was 23 then. Dashing tear-off.
          Oh, I was again demoted to Colonels ... In Ahh, so everything is clear. Gone up. Ghouls climbed out ...
        2. Aerodrome
          Aerodrome 22 October 2019 19: 52
          +3
          Quote: Observer2014
          . But the fact that now they do not peel potatoes until the morning. Already good.

          but they don’t see freshly-fried! eh ...
        3. tol100v
          tol100v 22 October 2019 20: 14
          0
          Quote: Observer2014
          .Already good.

          What is cartography, I know not by hearsay. (Dunaev’s printing house) I also have in my archive the German map of 1939 of a large part of the Krasnodar Territory. So on it you can now safely walk to these places! That's how they prepared for war! So not just a map, but two kilometers!
          1. T.Henks
            T.Henks 23 October 2019 10: 22
            0
            And I have a German map of Driss and Kokhanovichi. From 1941. Compiled by Penkova, a cartographic technician in 1938. Oh, and we stumbled over it. Either the ford is not there, then the bridge, then the swamp. And not only.
        4. Doliva63
          Doliva63 22 October 2019 20: 15
          +1
          Quote: Observer2014
          Lexus (Alex) hi By the way, you have described the old USSR-Rovsk problem yet. The absence in the units below the rank of cards. Suddenly, the soldiers will write something on them. The enemy will get laughing Many will say it’s not a motto. Maybe it can. This is total secrecy where it is not necessary. Often, bad jokes were played with our soldiers. My friend is the Major of the Bundeswehr. I talked about this in the late 90's. Imagine a major of the Bundeswehr! They studied us. And they study. And they know our vulnerabilities. I even tried to argue with him. But he understood and knew that this is so. Then this problem was transferred to the 90th Russian army. Now I don’t know. Our ordinary soldiers will be taught orienteering or not. But the fact that they don’t peel potatoes until morning is already good.

          The soldier will not write anything on the map, this is strictly prohibited. But even if he does, then on the day he returns to the PPD this card will be handed over to the "secret", and only the special officer will find out what the fighter wrote there laughing
    2. venik
      venik 22 October 2019 20: 11
      +3
      Quote: Observer2014
      No pulse will damage the printed card.

      ==========
      Inspired ("bearded" anecdote):
      The Americans during Operation Desert Storm were extremely surprised by the extremely low efficiency of their electronic suppression systems ... It turned out that Kakashnikov's assault rifles, which were armed with Saddam's army, were absent ( request ) microprocessors!! wassat
    3. Nyrobsky
      Nyrobsky 22 October 2019 20: 46
      +3
      Quote: Observer2014
      NATO decided to return to using maps and compass
      laughing Electronic "ponty" is certainly good. But you need to know the maps printed on paper. And be able to understand them. No impulse will destroy the printed card.

      That's right. When only the navigators appeared, one acquaintance acquired this stray and drowned with it and two hounds into the taiga for hunting, decisively abandoning the remnants of the past, or a compass and maps. When in due time he did not appear at home, then, on the alarm raised by his relatives, they went to look for him. They searched for three days, but he drew himself, tired and losing one of the dogs. Trite - the battery died. So the compass and the map in the backpack should be registered on an ongoing basis, they do not take up much space and weigh almost nothing, much less depend on the availability of batteries and a GPS signal.
  4. Thrifty
    Thrifty 22 October 2019 19: 03
    +8
    We will launch drones with strong magnets, so that at the NATO military exercises, the north on the compass suddenly becomes the west. ... lol
    1. yaros
      yaros 22 October 2019 20: 12
      0
      You probably don’t know, but the compass has not shown the true north for a long time, the magnetic pole and the North pole are very different, and will be more different further, but let the sectars be mastered ....))
      1. Antares
        Antares 22 October 2019 20: 48
        +2
        Quote: yaros
        You probably don’t know, but the compass has not shown the true north for a long time, the magnetic pole and the North pole are very different


        The location of the south magnetic pole does not coincide with the geographic south pole. Currently, it lies on the edge of Antarctica.
        Traditionally, the end of the magnet, indicating the direction to the north, is called the north pole of the magnet, and the opposite end is called the south. As noted above, the difference between the geographic north magnetic pole and the earth’s north pole is negligible. Therefore, with a certain error, it can be argued that the compass with the blue part of the arrow points to the north (meaning both the geographical north magnetic pole and the north pole of the Earth).
        Generally speaking, magnetic poles are also spoken in physics and geography of class 10 ...
        Who generally thinks that the arrow points to the real north if a heap of metal distorts the compass data in cities and the compass on smart is generally lying ..
        The map is just more accurate!
        1. yaros
          yaros 22 October 2019 20: 52
          0
          If more precisely not a map but a globe, the map has projection errors))
      2. T.Henks
        T.Henks 23 October 2019 10: 28
        0
        That's right. Soon the North Pole will arrive at Taimyr. Bulgakov used to say that the earth does not fly on the celestial axis.
  5. Mainbeam
    Mainbeam 22 October 2019 19: 04
    -1
    According to NATO, Russia allegedly suppressed GPS signals, thereby trying to conduct alliance exercises.

    Yes, the stripes developed their technique and strategy, drawing on the experience of wars with banana republics. The Russian Federation, as a hacker, trying to find an asymmetric answer, constantly pokes their nose into their own vulnerabilities.

    Just in the continuation of the article on VO:
    US media "revealed" Russia's plan to confront NATO
  6. Evil echo
    Evil echo 22 October 2019 19: 06
    +6
    God forbid, they will start writing with a pencil ...
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 22 October 2019 19: 15
      -4
      Evil echo hi write, or write? ?? wassat
      1. Evil echo
        Evil echo 23 October 2019 08: 20
        0
        It depends on what you hold in your hands.
    2. sabakina
      sabakina 22 October 2019 21: 08
      0
      Quote: Evil Echo
      God forbid, they will start writing with a pencil ...

      Do not start. The realization that the chemical pencil must be slobber will never reach their consciousness. wink
  7. fruit_cake
    fruit_cake 22 October 2019 19: 08
    0
    progressing
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 22 October 2019 19: 35
      +1
      Quote: fruit_cake
      progressing

      Back in the 80s, when we conducted joint exercises with their scouts, they were not particularly friendly with the map, so progress is doubtful. Unless experience SA begin to adopt laughing
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 22 October 2019 20: 45
        0
        Quote: Doliva63
        they weren’t particularly friends with the map,

        They had one advantage that we didn’t have - they put a thin transparent plex on the card, on which they drew felt-tip pens in any situation, and after the exercises they erased everything. Well, after the exercises, maps with the printed situation were constantly destroyed, and one map was enough for them for a long time.
        It’s a pity that we didn’t adopt such an attitude towards saving military property, I hope that now at least there is no such wastefulness.
        1. Glory1974
          Glory1974 22 October 2019 22: 33
          +3
          It’s a pity that we didn’t adopt such an attitude towards saving military property, I hope that now at least there is no such wastefulness.

          We did not adopt, the militants adopted. They drew movement routes and caches on film and paper. Even the scheme captured from the killed action movie did not give anything, because it was not clear which map to apply it to.
        2. not main
          not main 22 October 2019 23: 30
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          Quote: Doliva63
          they weren’t particularly friends with the map,

          They had one advantage that we didn’t have - they put a thin transparent plex on the card, on which they drew felt-tip pens in any situation, and after the exercises they erased everything. Well, after the exercises, maps with the printed situation were constantly destroyed, and one map was enough for them for a long time.
          It’s a pity that we didn’t adopt such an attitude towards saving military property, I hope that now at least there is no such wastefulness.

          Why not? I remember how we in the 80s in the South-East European Union glued all the folds of the cards with thin tape! This extended their life three times! Actually, I'm talking about flight maps and a scale from "two" to "one hundred meters".
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 23 October 2019 11: 28
            0
            Quote: non-primary
            Well, why? I remember how in the 80s in the South-East state all the folds of cards were glued with thin tape!

            This is not entirely because in SV there was no question of gluing from a large number of sheets - this is a common event and all prepared maps were stored in their suitcases. But when the question concerned individual sheets and glues with the application of furnishing for the exercises, they were simply destroyed at the end, although they were in good condition, and this led to a large expenditure of maps. The NATO team decided this question easier - during the exercises they used a transparent plex superimposed on the card, and the card remained intact and lasted longer.
        3. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 22 October 2019 23: 36
          0
          It has always been like this in the army. Film on the map, for all commanders. Painted on
          washed away.
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 23 October 2019 11: 31
            0
            Quote: voyaka uh
            It has always been like this in the army. Film on the map, for all commanders. Painted on
            washed away.

            In what army has it always been like this - can you tell me the years and place of service? I then found a time when a thin felt-tip pen was a rarity, even in the GSVG, and you are telling something about the film here ...
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 23 October 2019 11: 35
              -1
              In Israeli. smile in the late 80s it was definitely already.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 23 October 2019 11: 54
                0
                Quote: voyaka uh
                In Israeli. in the late 80s it was definitely already.

                Yes, the magnitude of your theater of operations is so "huge", and requires such a large number of maps, that of course you were ahead of the rest of the planet, and you could not do without film already at that time ...
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 23 October 2019 12: 19
                  0
                  I was a radio operator for a company commander at one of the battalion exercises and saw how they worked with a map under a film at the commanders' "briefing". The marks were made on the film with colored markers. All the commanders of the companies were exactly like that.
        4. Doliva63
          Doliva63 23 October 2019 18: 25
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          Quote: Doliva63
          they weren’t particularly friends with the map,

          They had one advantage that we didn’t have - they put a thin transparent plex on the card, on which they drew felt-tip pens in any situation, and after the exercises they erased everything. Well, after the exercises, maps with the printed situation were constantly destroyed, and one map was enough for them for a long time.
          It’s a pity that we didn’t adopt such an attitude towards saving military property, I hope that now at least there is no such wastefulness.

          They didn’t draw anything on the cards. Generally. In any case, in intelligence. The edge that was was a tracing-paper on which it was possible to draw anything. But tracing paper was not made on the whole map, but on the site of specific events, if it fell into the hands of the enemy it could not be tied to a place. Therefore, when not needed, you can not even destroy, but simply throw it away. And the cards were both received clean and dealt. The cards were beautifully painted not for work (field), but for window dressing. Well, at headquarters, of course, they drew. Those that hung on the walls. Such, I think, the Yankees really painted laughing In CA, work with the card was perfected, I just said about tracing paper, and how much more there was!
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 23 October 2019 18: 43
            0
            Quote: Doliva63
            They didn’t draw anything on the cards. Generally. In any case, in intelligence.

            You didn’t draw this, but at the headquarters of the SPN brigade the whole situation is put on the map. I’m not even talking about the higher structure - everyone had it there. I just didn’t mean the map that the reconnaissance group commander took with him.
            Quote: Doliva63
            . The cards were beautifully painted not for work (field), but for window dressing.

            Well, it's you in vain - without a card it was generally impossible to set a task.
            Quote: Doliva63
            Well, at headquarters, of course, they drew. Those that hung on the walls.

            On the walls hung ordinary maps, on which not everything was reflected, and the workers were kept in the suitcases of all the officers.
            Quote: Doliva63
            In CA, work with the map was perfected,

            Here I agree - this was well trained, especially at headquarters.
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 23 October 2019 19: 18
              0
              Quote: ccsr
              Quote: Doliva63
              They didn’t draw anything on the cards. Generally. In any case, in intelligence.

              You didn’t draw this, but at the headquarters of the SPN brigade the whole situation is put on the map. I’m not even talking about the higher structure - everyone had it there. I just didn’t mean the map that the reconnaissance group commander took with him.
              Quote: Doliva63
              . The cards were beautifully painted not for work (field), but for window dressing.

              Well, it's you in vain - without a card it was generally impossible to set a task.
              Quote: Doliva63
              Well, at headquarters, of course, they drew. Those that hung on the walls.

              On the walls hung ordinary maps, on which not everything was reflected, and the workers were kept in the suitcases of all the officers.
              Quote: Doliva63
              In CA, work with the map was perfected,

              Here I agree - this was well trained, especially at headquarters.

              Funny, but where did the situation at the brigade headquarters come from, don’t you remember?
              And on the wall I saw a work card at the head of the operations department of the headquarters of the 20 Guards Military Aviation Administration. Just shuttered, no suitcase.
              You and I saw the same thing, sort of, but with different eyes. This, of course, is understandable - everyone did his own thing in its place. Service in the ORR, especially in the ORB, does not at all resemble a service in a brigade, for example, although there are a lot of intersections. The main thing is that we did one thing. And by the way, it’s not in vain that we have one Day - November 5 drinks
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 23 October 2019 19: 32
                0
                Quote: Doliva63
                Funny, but where did the situation at the brigade headquarters come from, don’t you remember?

                From the intelligence agency. The chief of staff of the brigade constantly arrived at the department - this was the case in my time.
                Quote: Doliva63
                And on the wall I saw a work card at the head of the operations department of the headquarters of the 20 Guards Military Aviation Administration. Just shuttered, no suitcase.

                On alarm, there is no time to take cards - that's why they are stored in a suitcase. This is how it works in all major headquarters. Cabinets remain under the protection of those who remain at headquarters and are engaged in the evacuation of property.
                Quote: Doliva63
                You and I saw the same thing, sort of, but with different eyes.

                That's right - we really did one common thing, but at different levels.
  8. Brturin
    Brturin 22 October 2019 19: 20
    0
    Maybe they’ll also tear themselves away from the monitors and look around to prevent frigates from encountering tankers ...
  9. Proton
    Proton 22 October 2019 19: 22
    +3
    As one smart person said: “What are these your electronic tablets, if something happens, neither a bonfire nor wipe” laughing
  10. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 22 October 2019 19: 32
    0
    No, no, you don’t need a compass and maps, this is a stone age, only electronics, you are not these wild Russians laughing

    Sarcasm if that wassat
  11. midshipman
    midshipman 22 October 2019 19: 33
    +3
    An old parable. "You see the military are marching in formation. Let's dump, otherwise they will come up and ask the way to the barracks. And the commander has a tablet with a map in his hands."
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 22 October 2019 21: 17
      +1
      Quote: midshipman
      An old parable. "You see the military are marching in formation. Let's dump, otherwise they will come up and ask the way to the barracks. And the commander has a tablet with a map in his hands."

      I also haven’t seen a tablet with a map .... We have tanks on the same track!
  12. Slon_on
    Slon_on 22 October 2019 19: 38
    +1
    And what, will they study, where is the "snail" 9?
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 23 October 2019 18: 27
      +1
      Quote: Slon_on
      And what, will they study, where is the "snail" 9?

      And every time they will be shocked that 9 is always in the center of the snail laughing
  13. kind
    kind 22 October 2019 19: 40
    +1
    Azimuth and maps are good, but do they have trigopoints? Without them, to bring artillery to the target will not work. Without satellites to determine the coordinates, except on the geodetic network and fail.
    1. tol100v
      tol100v 22 October 2019 20: 24
      +1
      Quote: Good
      Without satellites to determine the coordinates, except on the geodetic network and fail.

      It will turn out! By conditional
      signal: "Three green whistles in the direction of the forest" division opens fire and hits the specified targets!
    2. Glory1974
      Glory1974 22 October 2019 22: 35
      +2
      Without satellites to determine the coordinates, except on the geodetic network and fail.

      there are also landmarks. From practice, they were determined on the ground with an accuracy of 10 meters. This score is excellent.
    3. Doliva63
      Doliva63 23 October 2019 18: 29
      0
      Quote: Good
      Azimuth and maps are good, but do they have trigopoints? Without them, to bring artillery to the target will not work. Without satellites to determine the coordinates, except on the geodetic network and fail.

      It depends on what artillery. After all, there is shooting at the air benchmark, on the contrary, there is much more.
  14. PalBor
    PalBor 22 October 2019 19: 40
    +4
    Three thousand years after the invention of the compass by Taoist monks, the Belgians learned about its existence wink
  15. gabonskijfront
    gabonskijfront 22 October 2019 19: 50
    +4
    my teacher, by a compromise, the old artilleryman, over the argument with the slide rule overtook a student with a calculator in any calculations. At the same time he gave various introductory notes, be it an imitation of artillery fire or enemy attacks.
  16. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 22 October 2019 19: 51
    +3
    Quote: lexus
    No pulse will damage the printed card.

    Sergei hi , no impulse, except for "hitting the Globe in the region of Cherepovets" (approx. in military language - the defeat of the skull) will not incapacitate the brain, which even without a map will lead to victory. It has been tested on our own experience, when in the North Caucasus it was necessary to drive home, the necessary card, according to the law of meanness, never was. wink

    Why cards? There are taxis.
  17. Terenin
    Terenin 22 October 2019 19: 57
    +3
    ... during NATO exercise "Single Trident"

    Well, of course, NATO soldiers will never go on the offensive unless there is a cool name for the operation, for example: “desert storm”, what else is there? “Typhoon in the savannah”, “draft in the forest”, “breeze in the swamp” ... But it’s best to use the name of the animals! yes As in the film, the operation “sleeping ermine” will go right away. And even better - “pooping hedgehog”, “macaque anger”, “stuffed worm” - that’s all, there will be an operation! am
  18. akarfoxhound
    akarfoxhound 22 October 2019 20: 26
    +6
    It would be possible to neigh at the minke whales, BUT I forgot when I saw the navigator with an astrocompass, such as DAKDB, where are our numerous drive radio stations along the routes ??? They gave everything at the mercy of civil aviation, and there was a crowd of "effective economists with managers" who did not give up this whole crap of autonomous navigation when there was GPS. And the fact that these satellites will be there in an instant and that they are regularly switched off in our territory - none of the "collars" cares. If you look at RNA today and 10 years ago, then you want to cry - half of it is not, and 20 years old - it's so easy to burst out from the upper stupidity
  19. Bshkaus
    Bshkaus 22 October 2019 20: 29
    0
    Ah ha, the intellectual work has begun!
    It is safe to say that the vocabulary of an ordinary US soldier will be replenished with such concepts as: curvimeter, declination, azimuth, and most importantly - orienteering - this is truly intellectual and creative work, especially when navigating the Soviet map, when you have to combine the "actual state of affairs" with "pattern".
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 23 October 2019 18: 33
      0
      Quote: Bshkaus
      Ah ha, the intellectual work has begun!
      It is safe to say that the vocabulary of an ordinary US soldier will be replenished with such concepts as: curvimeter, declination, azimuth, and most importantly - orienteering - this is truly intellectual and creative work, especially when navigating the Soviet map, when you have to combine the "actual state of affairs" with "pattern".

      In Soviet troops, Soviet maps were accurate, if that.
      1. Bshkaus
        Bshkaus 24 October 2019 21: 02
        0
        In Soviet troops, Soviet maps were accurate, if that.

        If anything, he never served in the Soviet troops due to his small age, when he was engaged in tourism, he was content mainly with two-kilometer "schemes" from an ordinary store, according to which one could find himself in virtual reality (((
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 25 October 2019 16: 31
          0
          Quote: Bshkaus
          In Soviet troops, Soviet maps were accurate, if that.

          If anything, he never served in the Soviet troops due to his small age, when he was engaged in tourism, he was content mainly with two-kilometer "schemes" from an ordinary store, according to which one could find himself in virtual reality (((

          If you had in mind Soviet travel maps, then maybe. I didn’t use it, I don’t know.
          1. Bshkaus
            Bshkaus 25 October 2019 20: 58
            +1
            If you had in mind Soviet travel maps, then maybe

            No, this is not even a tourist card, but an ordinary two-kilometer map of the area, which is sold in bookstores.
            But the maps for orienteering have a small scale, for example 1: 5000 (1 cm 50 meters), so a rotten stump will be marked there, but you won't go far with them. Usually they go 1: 200 (two-kilometer), the maximum that I used on a hike is 000: 1 (five-kilometer), but this is already an extreme option, as they say "to hell with the details, the main thing is the direction."
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 26 October 2019 17: 30
              0
              Quote: Bshkaus
              If you had in mind Soviet travel maps, then maybe

              No, this is not even a tourist card, but an ordinary two-kilometer map of the area, which is sold in bookstores.
              But the maps for orienteering have a small scale, for example 1: 5000 (1 cm 50 meters), so a rotten stump will be marked there, but you won't go far with them. Usually they go 1: 200 (two-kilometer), the maximum that I used on a hike is 000: 1 (five-kilometer), but this is already an extreme option, as they say "to hell with the details, the main thing is the direction."

              And we sometimes carried several maps of different scales and different regions. This despite the fact that in preparation for the "hike" we studied the route and the surroundings by heart, it was quite possible to walk without maps laughing
              1. Bshkaus
                Bshkaus 26 October 2019 17: 39
                0
                And we sometimes dragged several maps of different scales and different areas

                I never taught beforehand. At our tourist school it was like this: a meeting on Saturday at 8 am at the station. metro Taganskaya, the group is given an envelope with the words "open at the Kursk railway station" ...
                At the Kursk railway station, you open it and read "get to the station. Vedenyapino", then follow the map ...
                But the routes traveled probably still remember)))
                1. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 26 October 2019 18: 02
                  0
                  Quote: Bshkaus
                  And we sometimes dragged several maps of different scales and different areas

                  I never taught beforehand. At our tourist school it was like this: a meeting on Saturday at 8 am at the station. metro Taganskaya, the group is given an envelope with the words "open at the Kursk railway station" ...
                  At the Kursk railway station, you open it and read "get to the station. Vedenyapino", then follow the map ...
                  But the routes traveled probably still remember)))

                  It was different with us. At least 3 days to prepare for the "hike". If "on the way" there were some infrastructure objects that needed to be "visited", then they made their models in order to know in advance the entrances and exits, so to speak. Ideally, all the way was sculpted on the model. And they learned everything by heart. Actually, maps were needed only on the route, if suddenly it needed to be changed with a big "hook", which sometimes happened.
                  But it happened when it was written in the "envelope" - the start of your route is tomorrow, 100 km from here, you have to be there at 9 am. And then yes, you need a map, quick legs and ingenuity. Late - lost. And then 3-5 days on the route. And there is one condition - if at least once was found on the nomination or in the area - you withdraw from the "competition". Probably we can say - military-applied tourism laughing Just kidding
  20. Berkut24
    Berkut24 22 October 2019 20: 36
    +2
    NATO decided to return to using maps and compass

    It is good that they have not yet grown to the curvimeter. We would have more susanins.
  21. ccsr
    ccsr 22 October 2019 20: 37
    -2
    Belgian army personnel participating in NATO missions will be trained in the use of a compass and topographic maps in the event of a failure of GPS devices whose signals may be vulnerable.

    This vulnerability was still known back in Soviet times, which is why then the development of the GLONASS system was curtailed in the interests of the Ministry of Defense. By the way, there were Soviet developments to determine the coordinates using data on working civilian radio electronic systems in peacetime, but because of the collapse of the country, this was turned off.
  22. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 22 October 2019 20: 47
    +1
    NATO decided to return to using maps and compass
    I think it’s too late, the buttons came to the army, they were too computerized there.
  23. Nadrub
    Nadrub 22 October 2019 20: 53
    +2
    I recently went to a bus stop in the center of Moscow and decided to look where my bus is, but the application says I can’t wait :)) you are in Sheremetyevo (and this is pardons a few tens of kilometers from my real location) ah, little fools! It was probably funny to them. Then he climbed into the Yandex navigator to look Che there, and there squeals half the type of Moscow - Aaaaa pamagite! where to go my brain (navigator) is buggy, Moscow already does not know Muscovites. If you cut off the navigation in half a day there will be chaos :)))
    1. T.Henks
      T.Henks 23 October 2019 10: 41
      +1
      And who remember the famous blackout in Moscow? Crowds surprised Muscovites with phones in their hands, poking at the buttons and not understanding anything? It was extremely interesting for us to watch this from the wild province. We then had a hundred two three of these gadgets.
  24. Prisoner
    Prisoner 22 October 2019 21: 08
    +1
    So they reach the flag semaphore.
  25. cniza
    cniza 22 October 2019 21: 11
    +1
    “Belgian soldiers must train again with a map and compass. Not because of nostalgia, but because of necessity: the army command is concerned about the vulnerability of GPS devices. Russia has proven that their signals are easily broken


    We need to tackle them in full, they forgot about the magnets ...
  26. sabakina
    sabakina 22 October 2019 21: 24
    0
    That's what I thought. Compass, whatever one may say, but a device. It may also fail. fall and break. What to do then? Just don’t tell them that there are trees with moss and without moss ...
  27. akims
    akims 22 October 2019 21: 25
    +1
    By the way, striped penguins actually have cards, as it were, to put it right ... almost traditional. Only not printed on paper, but on white dacron. Such fabric on the lining of clothes is used. It is synthetic: it does not burn (melts), is waterproof, does not decay, and does not wrinkle. I have been chasing after such a card for 10 years - to work at the museum.
  28. Mik2019
    Mik2019 22 October 2019 21: 55
    0
    Honestly, I discovered 2014 for myself, it turns out that for 5 years I was a visitor or reader of your site
  29. aries2200
    aries2200 22 October 2019 22: 21
    0
    Well, Russia has to displace the earth’s magnetic pole for the duration of the NATO exercises ......... laughing laughing laughing ...
  30. Aldmit_2
    Aldmit_2 22 October 2019 22: 35
    0
    Now Russia needs to show that it can distort the magnetic poles))))
  31. Romario_Argo
    Romario_Argo 22 October 2019 23: 14
    0
    Well, why did someone move the GPS indicators a bit
    on watch you shouldn’t kick at that time and the Norwegian Frigate wouldn’t encounter a tanker
  32. Moskovit
    Moskovit 22 October 2019 23: 27
    +1
    Recently, an acquaintance flew off in the Tver province to a ditch with a somersault. The places were unfamiliar, the road without cars, the mobile did not catch, pressed the alarming GLONASS. Nobody. I went along the road, caught a dude of some kind, drove into the village. By chance I saw the Mchsniks who were traveling somewhere perpendicular. Well the beeps, then ce. The guys stopped. Says where you are. I’m right around the corner. And they are him, man, and you are at the coordinates in another place. We go there and go.
    Well, of course they helped. But somehow it became alarming ...
  33. faterdom
    faterdom 23 October 2019 00: 13
    +2
    Quote: figvam
    You look and the curvimeter will return.

    And a protractor with a compass. Sextant, again, like James Cook. Astrolabe .... Warm tube sound.
  34. faterdom
    faterdom 23 October 2019 00: 15
    +1
    Quote: sabakina
    Compass, whatever one may say, but a device. It may also fail.

    Sebastian Pereira will fix it at a time. And at the same time take where necessary.
  35. Karaul14
    Karaul14 23 October 2019 01: 43
    +1
    They didn’t go anywhere in NATO from using the map and compass, this is all nonsense, everyone has always been taught in case GPS stops working.
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 23 October 2019 18: 38
      0
      Quote: Karaul14
      They didn’t go anywhere in NATO from using the map and compass, this is all nonsense, everyone has always been taught in case GPS stops working.

      Taught, probably not arguing. But it was funny to watch them use it. laughing
      1. Karaul14
        Karaul14 23 October 2019 21: 20
        0
        Quote: Doliva63
        Taught, probably not arguing. But it was funny to watch them use it.
        They use it better than any Russian conscript soldier, their training is good, the sergeant is really a sergeant and he is different in training from a private, and not like in Russia - whoever liked the commander more was given. And all NATO soldiers are professionals, not conscripts ala "I don't know what I'm doing here, I want to go home." Therefore, the only thing you can laugh with is what you write here.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 24 October 2019 10: 13
          0
          Quote: Karaul14
          And all NATO soldiers are professionals, not conscripts ala "I don't know what I'm doing here, I want to go home."

          Did you come across them yourself? Well, at least with the officers?
          It is not necessary to disseminate such statements, because the current contingent of NATO troops in terms of rank and file is overwhelmingly either losers, or those who dream of obtaining citizenship in an accelerated manner, or the person does not have the means to receive education after the army. So not everything is as beautiful as you paint - they also have problems with manning the army, as we do. By the way, in Germany until 2011 the army was manned by draft, although the unification of Germany took place 20 years before, and it would seem that they could afford to have a contact army, but they pulled to the last. Why do not you say?
          1. Karaul14
            Karaul14 25 October 2019 01: 58
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            It is not necessary to disseminate such statements, because the current contingent of NATO troops in terms of rank and file is overwhelmingly either losers, or those who dream of obtaining citizenship in an accelerated manner, or the person does not have the means to receive education after the army.
            They, in NATO, give soldiers all the conditions, provide psychological assistance, they are engaged in almost exclusively military training, and civilian personnel are removed and trained for them. But this is wrong. And rightly so: the soldier needs to be dragged forcibly into the army, immediately brushed out, and then he has to peel potatoes, wave a broom and march most of the time, this is a lucky one, and NATO losers)))
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 25 October 2019 17: 24
              +1
              Quote: Karaul14
              At them, in NATO,

              Did you manage to serve there? Maybe in Fort Bragg, share how it is served to those who contractually get there.
              Quote: Karaul14
              And rightly so: a soldier must be dragged forcibly into the army,

              Now a lot of people are going to serve in the Russian army voluntarily, and there have been cases of giving bribes to be called up for a contract. So do not worry too much - the conscript is now serving only a year, and the conditions there now are more reminiscent of a pioneer camp, but in the USA you have to sign a contract for at least two years - feel the difference ...
              1. Karaul14
                Karaul14 26 October 2019 01: 44
                0
                Quote: ccsr
                Now a lot of people are going to serve in the Russian army voluntarily, and there have been cases of giving bribes to be called up for a contract. So do not worry too much - the conscript is now serving only a year, and the conditions there now are more reminiscent of a pioneer camp, but in the USA you have to sign a contract for at least two years - feel the difference ...
                And then one to the other? Namely, who will be the more prepared, the professional, who deliberately joined the army, or the conscript who is there for one year, and even, as you put it, from the category of losers who could not repulse? All the same, the army of the Russian Federation, whatever one may say, consists mainly of conscripts.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 26 October 2019 12: 15
                  +1
                  Quote: Karaul14
                  All the same, the army of the Russian Federation, whatever one may say, consists mainly of conscripts.

                  You are mistaken - now a completely different trend in the Russian army, and in the near future they will refuse from conscripts altogether, because they are too expensive for the state, and the efficiency of their service is low.
                  1. Karaul14
                    Karaul14 26 October 2019 18: 59
                    0
                    Quote: ccsr
                    in the near future they will refuse from conscripts altogether, because they are too expensive for the state, and the efficiency of their service is low.
                    No one will refuse them, this has already been stated more than once, Shoigu personally stated this. And about the low efficiency, that's what I'm talking about. But the article says "your NATO contractors are suckers, they don't know how to use maps" and you told me that only losers went to the NATO contract, and the Russian conscripts are in no way inferior to them, now you have changed the record. It is clear that it is useless to say something here))) At least it is necessary to determine the position before arguing.
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 26 October 2019 20: 00
                      +1
                      Quote: Karaul14
                      No one will refuse them, this has already been stated more than once, Shoigu personally stated this.

                      Shoigu is not the most important one in this matter.
                      Quote: Karaul14
                      and you told me that one loser went to the contract in NATO, and the conscripts of the Russian Federation are in no way inferior to them, now you have changed the record.

                      I have not changed any records, you just interpret it the way you want it. Once again I explain that the Western contract armies are faced with the problem of the low level of conscripts, and in addition they do not come from the best sections of society, which cannot but affect the atmosphere of military collectives. We have another problem - conscripts for a year do not need the army at all, because for a year it is impossible to train a specialist, even if he is smarter than a Western contractor.
                      Quote: Karaul14
                      At least one needs to decide on a position before arguing.

                      My position is based on long-term service, but yours seems to be only on the basis of a one-year service, or maybe this is not, so I hardly need to argue with you, as with that pilot who did not see a living soldier on equipment, but tried to explain to me how to cook it.
        2. Doliva63
          Doliva63 24 October 2019 18: 09
          0
          Quote: Karaul14
          Quote: Doliva63
          Taught, probably not arguing. But it was funny to watch them use it.
          They use it better than any Russian conscript soldier, their training is good, the sergeant is really a sergeant and he is different in training from a private, and not like in Russia - whoever liked the commander more was given. And all NATO soldiers are professionals, not conscripts ala "I don't know what I'm doing here, I want to go home." Therefore, the only thing you can laugh with is what you write here.

          I don’t know how the topography of the Russian conscripts was, but the Soviets were in complete order. About "them", and it was a company of the 75th Rangers regiment, I can say that their sergeants were superior only in age, but not in brains and quality of training. Then the chief of intelligence of the British Rhine Army, General Rogers, said - the Yankees are sure that you set them up with the cadets of the military school, and not the conscripts. So keep quiet about what is not in the subject.
          And yes, sergeants in the SA, as a rule, were not trained in the troops, but in training units. And where they came to us from, they cooked them quite well. Of course, it happened that a person "did not pull", such turned into "free sergeants" in the position of an intelligence officer. They were brilliant as scouts.
          1. Karaul14
            Karaul14 25 October 2019 01: 45
            0
            Quote: Doliva63
            I don’t know how the topography of the Russian conscripts was, but the Soviets were in complete order. About "them", and it was a company of the 75th Rangers regiment, I can say that their sergeants were superior only in age, but not in brains and quality of training.
            And now the USSR is gone, there is the Russian Federation. And there was still a draft in the US Army under the USSR, and now it is a fully professional army.

            Quote: Doliva63
            So keep quiet about what is not in the subject.
            Mutually, otherwise I see that neighing with "stupid NATO soldiers who do not know how to use maps" are you in the subject? You are not in the subject even once if you say that.


            Quote: Doliva63
            And yes, sergeants in the SA, as a rule, were trained not in troops, but in training units. And there, from where they came to us, they prepared them very well.
            And again, why do I need the USSR if we compare NATO and the Russian Federation. The fact is that NATO has a different management system and organization, a sergeant is given a much larger role and more authority, and therefore a different preparation. The organization itself is less centralized and the military has a lot of authority to make decisions right on the spot, without any requests to the capital (as happens in Russia), and most likely, the decision to shoot down the Russian Su-24 was made by the Turkish military on the spot, without asking Erdogan in Ankara, this was only later reported.
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 25 October 2019 16: 57
              0
              Quote: Karaul14
              Quote: Doliva63
              I don’t know how the topography of the Russian conscripts was, but the Soviets were in complete order. About "them", and it was a company of the 75th Rangers regiment, I can say that their sergeants were superior only in age, but not in brains and quality of training.
              And now the USSR is gone, there is the Russian Federation. And there was still a draft in the US Army under the USSR, and now it is a fully professional army.

              Quote: Doliva63
              So keep quiet about what is not in the subject.
              Mutually, otherwise I see that neighing with "stupid NATO soldiers who do not know how to use maps" are you in the subject? You are not in the subject even once if you say that.


              Quote: Doliva63
              And yes, sergeants in the SA, as a rule, were trained not in troops, but in training units. And there, from where they came to us, they prepared them very well.
              And again, why do I need the USSR if we compare NATO and the Russian Federation. The fact is that NATO has a different management system and organization, a sergeant is given a much larger role and more authority, and therefore a different preparation. The organization itself is less centralized and the military has a lot of authority to make decisions right on the spot, without any requests to the capital (as happens in Russia), and most likely, the decision to shoot down the Russian Su-24 was made by the Turkish military on the spot, without asking Erdogan in Ankara, this was only later reported.

              Your "knowledge" is worthless. Professional army in the USA since 1973, after Vietnam. Since then, there have been no special organizational changes. Maybe, of course, it's just that the current contingent of the RF Armed Forces is inferior to them, but here I don't know, the patriots will tell you now laughing
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 25 October 2019 17: 31
                0
                Quote: Doliva63
                Maybe, of course, just the current contingent of the RF Armed Forces is inferior to them,

                He is not inferior in anything, but in many ways our man is more savvy in military affairs than the same Americans. I know the story of an American contractor who specifically decided to go to serve in Iraq, in order to later receive money for study. After staying there for less than eight months, I got a nervous breakdown, went to the U.S. military hospital for treatment, and somehow quit quickly after finishing treatment. But I kind of somehow decided my business, I don’t know the details, and this was not such a rare case.
                1. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 25 October 2019 18: 11
                  0
                  Quote: ccsr
                  Quote: Doliva63
                  Maybe, of course, just the current contingent of the RF Armed Forces is inferior to them,

                  He is not inferior in anything, but in many ways our man is more savvy in military affairs than the same Americans. I know the story of an American contractor who specifically decided to go to serve in Iraq, in order to later receive money for study. After staying there for less than eight months, I got a nervous breakdown, went to the U.S. Military Hospital for treatment, and somehow quickly fired drinks lsa after the end of treatment. But I kind of somehow decided my business, I don’t know the details, and this was not such a rare case.

                  Here is the first patriot! laughing drinks
                  I had a German friend in the GSVG, he was recruiting into the Foreign Legion, so over a glass of beer he used to talk about problems with their personnel, although, it seems, not the worst connection on the planet. In general, I have the impression that people still get information about the Western Armed Forces from the book "Gene Green - Untouchable" laughing
                2. Karaul14
                  Karaul14 26 October 2019 01: 46
                  0
                  Quote: ccsr
                  He is not inferior in anything, but in many ways our man is more savvy in military affairs than the same Americans.
                  Yes, smarter, quicker, more savvy, and you’re dumb and tight, all according to Zadornov. Everything is clear)))
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 26 October 2019 12: 19
                    0
                    Quote: Karaul14
                    Yes, smarter, quicker, more savvy, and you’re dumb and tight, all according to Zadornov. Everything is clear)))

                    Not at all, but only because those who have been professionally studying the armies of foreign states know more about them, and do not buy into cheap propaganda materials like "Saving Private Ryan" or about Demi Moore's service in the special forces.
                    1. Karaul14
                      Karaul14 26 October 2019 19: 03
                      0
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Not at all, but only because those who have been professionally studying the armies of foreign states know more about them, and do not buy into cheap propaganda materials like "Saving Private Ryan" or about Demi Moore's service in the special forces
                      Does anything suggest that I fell for it? But the fact that all of you here, according to Zadornov, think "NATO dumb with cards cannot, but naaash man is smarter and smarter", just speaks of some kind of shapkozakidatilstvo and complete bias.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 October 2019 20: 39
                        +1
                        Quote: Karaul14
                        that’s what you’re all thinking of Zadornov

                        Maybe you according to Zadornov evaluate all the local authors here - this is your right. I won’t persuade you of anything, but at least read what the Americans themselves write about their contractors:
                        the author of the book describes the stay of a group of “fur seals” on an aircraft carrier: “We were aboard the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk. During this period they had very serious problems. Several sailors, apparently former members of street gangs in the past, constantly provoked discipline violations. The commander of the ship called us to his place and informed us at what time the bandits were engaged in the gym. We went down to the simulator, the door locked behind us, and we solved the "gangster" problem. " This is probably exclusively an American method, to solve the gangster problem, in fact, gangster ways.

                        https://topwar.ru/128873-neskolko-slov-o-poryadkah-v-amerikanskoy-armii.html
              2. Karaul14
                Karaul14 26 October 2019 01: 42
                0
                Quote: Doliva63
                Your "knowledge" is worthless. Professional army in the USA since 1973, after Vietnam. Since then, there have been no special organizational changes.
                So I don’t know what year you met them there.
  36. Strashila
    Strashila 23 October 2019 06: 16
    0
    "NATO has decided to return to using maps and a compass," probably after lengthy scientific research, they came to the conclusion that electronic warfare does not affect paper media.
  37. olhon
    olhon 23 October 2019 08: 16
    0
    Maps, compass ... Well, maps are still clear, but what is a compass? laughing
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 23 October 2019 18: 44
      0
      Quote: olhon
      Maps, compass ... Well, maps are still clear, but what is a compass? laughing

      Are you encroaching on NATO's military secrets? So you can rattle under sanctions laughing
  38. Rzzz
    Rzzz 23 October 2019 08: 35
    +1
    By the way, here's what is curious. If the evil Russian distorted the GPS signal of the Norwegian frigate. So why did the tanker that he crashed into without problems?
    Yes, because the problem is not in GPS, but in the fact that brave sailors did not know how to control their longboat. And a mess in the wheelhouse with a bunch of strangers on a difficult site.
  39. Radikal
    Radikal 23 October 2019 19: 55
    0
    Quote: Gritsa
    Quote: figvam
    You look and the curvimeter will return.

    You will be surprised, but now the big problem is to buy a curvimeter in bookstores, as it was before. I’ve been looking for half a year and can’t find

    The chain of stores of the Splav company - I bought in one of them. hi