“We need an analogue of the Russian R-37M”: in the USA, they thought about creating a new rocket

103
In the twenties, the US Air Force will receive at least two types of new air-to-air missiles designed to replace existing AIM-120 AMRAAM products. We are talking about the Raytheon Peregrine and AIM-260 missiles, which will become the answer to foreign models.





In September, Raytheon announced the development of the Peregrine project. An initiative is creating a family of missiles for promising fighters. In terms of combat characteristics, the new missiles will be close to the existing AIM-120, but they will be made more compact and light.

The main reason for the appearance of the Peregrine project is the limitations of fifth-generation fighters. They have internal arms bays of limited sizes. Fighter F-22 can carry 8 missiles on the internal suspension, F-35 - half as much. The Peregrine missile will be about half the size of AMRAAM, which will allow the F-22 and F-35 to carry solid ammunition from 16 and 8 products, respectively.

The Peregrine project was conceived on the initiative of Raytheon. The Pentagon, in turn, launched the AIM-260 project. It focuses on combat qualities, but not dimensions. The appearance of this project is due to the limited characteristics of the AIM-120 missiles and the emerging lag behind the foreign weapons.

The AIM-120C missile has a range of 105 km. The newer and more expensive AIM-120D flies, allegedly, on 180 km. Meanwhile, China has a PL-15 missile with a range of 200 km - as Chinese manufacturers themselves say. Russia has K-77 and P-37М missiles flying at 200 and 400 km, respectively. As a result, the US Air Force announced that they needed a new long-range or super-long-range missile - an analogue of Russian air-to-air weapons.

The situation is exacerbated by several additional factors. The R-37M rocket develops such a speed (expected - hypersonic) at which the attacked aircraft should respond as quickly as possible. New models are equipped with modern effective homing heads, increasing the likelihood of a successful defeat.

A retaliatory attack may be difficult. Russia and China are creating subtle and super-maneuverable fighters. The probability of effective destruction of such an aircraft by an AIM-120 rocket falls to an unacceptable level - the combat effectiveness of the Air Force is reduced.

The solution to the problem is seen in the AIM-260 rocket. It will be distinguished from AMRAAM by increased flight characteristics and a more advanced GOS. This will allow US fighters to effectively deal with the newest foreign aircraft carrying advanced missiles.

The Raytheon Peregrine, similar in its characteristics to the AIM-120, will also become the weapon of the fifth generation fighter. It can be used in battles with the air forces of developing countries, operating old-style equipment. In this context, the main advantage will not be the characteristics of the missiles, but their number on board the fighter.
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    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. 0
      21 October 2019 14: 41
      Russia has K-77 and R-37M missiles flying 200 and 400 km, respectively

      the probability of effective destruction of such an aircraft by the AIM-120 missile falls to an unacceptable level

      those. today - no chance. The difference is four times. Even China has overtaken. wink
      Oh, the most expensive and powerful army in the world ... tongue
      1. -16
        21 October 2019 14: 47
        Quote: tatarin_ru
        those. today - no chance. The difference is four times. Even China has overtaken.
        Oh, the most expensive and powerful army in the world ...

        Russia has no nicherta yet, we read further
        R-37M rocket develops such a speed (expected - hypersonic)

        as always we will say cheers fellow
        The basis of the videoconferencing is so long as the junk that remains of the tips, they were already outdated both in electronics and in size.
        1. +3
          21 October 2019 14: 55
          Quote: Arturov
          Quote: tatarin_ru
          those. today - no chance. The difference is four times. Even China has overtaken.
          Oh, the most expensive and powerful army in the world ...

          Russia has no nicherta yet, we read further
          R-37M rocket develops such a speed (expected - hypersonic)

          as always we will say cheers fellow
          The basis of the videoconferencing is so long as the junk that remains of the tips, they were already outdated both in electronics and in size.

          Eka is tearing you apart. Only the United States wants to ban the Russian missile as much as the UN Charter ...
          1. -9
            21 October 2019 15: 14
            Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
            Quote: Arturov
            Quote: tatarin_ru
            those. today - no chance. The difference is four times. Even China has overtaken.
            Oh, the most expensive and powerful army in the world ...

            Russia has no nicherta yet, we read further
            R-37M rocket develops such a speed (expected - hypersonic)

            as always we will say cheers fellow
            The basis of the videoconferencing is so long as the junk that remains of the tips, they were already outdated both in electronics and in size.

            Eka is tearing you apart. Only the United States wants to ban the Russian missile as much as the UN Charter ...

            I generally drum, only the article and the headline is the usual thick heading about nothing. and what is there to prohibit, a man wake up from the ury of the world.
            you don’t even have to go far
            https://topwar.ru/163650-rakety-ili-muzejnye-jeksponaty-chem-rossijskie-istrebiteli-budut-voevat-protiv-zapada.html
            laughing
            1. +2
              21 October 2019 15: 19
              Quote: Arturov
              Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
              Quote: Arturov
              Quote: tatarin_ru
              those. today - no chance. The difference is four times. Even China has overtaken.
              Oh, the most expensive and powerful army in the world ...

              Russia has no nicherta yet, we read further
              R-37M rocket develops such a speed (expected - hypersonic)

              as always we will say cheers fellow
              The basis of the videoconferencing is so long as the junk that remains of the tips, they were already outdated both in electronics and in size.

              Eka is tearing you apart. Only the United States wants to ban the Russian missile as much as the UN Charter ...

              I generally drum, only the article and the headline is the usual thick heading about nothing. and what is there to prohibit, a man wake up from the ury of the world.
              you don’t even have to go far
              https://topwar.ru/163650-rakety-ili-muzejnye-jeksponaty-chem-rossijskie-istrebiteli-budut-voevat-protiv-zapada.html
              laughing

              I don't care about you either. Don't push too hard. Pull up the letter, then "philosophize".
              1. +1
                21 October 2019 15: 43
                Well, it’s necessary to think ...
            2. SSR
              -1
              21 October 2019 15: 56
              Quote: Arturov
              Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
              Quote: Arturov
              Quote: tatarin_ru
              those. today - no chance. The difference is four times. Even China has overtaken.
              Oh, the most expensive and powerful army in the world ...

              Russia has no nicherta yet, we read further
              R-37M rocket develops such a speed (expected - hypersonic)

              as always we will say cheers fellow
              The basis of the videoconferencing is so long as the junk that remains of the tips, they were already outdated both in electronics and in size.

              Eka is tearing you apart. Only the United States wants to ban the Russian missile as much as the UN Charter ...

              I generally drum, only the article and the headline is the usual thick heading about nothing. and what is there to prohibit, a man wake up from the ury of the world.
              you don’t even have to go far
              https://topwar.ru/163650-rakety-ili-muzejnye-jeksponaty-chem-rossijskie-istrebiteli-budut-voevat-protiv-zapada.html
              laughing

              Comrade, why are you laughing, who is this "expert" Legate?
              What is this "expert" known for?
              Experts are at least such names.
              Mikhail Barabanov (Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies)
              Alexander Mozgovoy (National Defense magazine)
              Ilya Kramnik (independent military expert)
              Vladimir Shcherbakov ("Independent Military Review")
              Prokhor Tebin (independent military expert)
              1. +6
                21 October 2019 20: 10
                Quote: Tony (Tony)
                Work on the creation of the R-37M was launched in the late 2000s. It was originally planned that the novelty will also go into service only with MiG-31 interceptors. But later it was decided that after completion this munition will also become the main weapon for the fourth-generation Su-30 and Su-35 multipurpose fighters and the promising fifth-generation fighter, the Su-57. To do this, I had to reduce the starting weight and length of the product.

                Content source: https://naukatehnika.com/finalnyie-ispyitaniya-sverxdalnobojnoj-giperzvukovoj-raketyi-r-37m.html

                okko077 (Valery), as always - not true! Materiel is waiting for you to study, and not only!
              2. -1
                22 October 2019 08: 23
                Thank you for not including Pasha Filkinnaer
          2. -3
            21 October 2019 16: 51
            Dear Andryusha! What do you know about the R-37M rocket? There are very unflattering reviews about its capabilities ...
            https://army-news.ru/2018/09/obespechit-li-raketa-r-37m-gospodstvo-nad-aviaciej-nato/
            Second, who can carry it? At the moment, no one except MIG -31BM! And how many MIG-31BM do we have, and how many of them can be from the remaining 140 last MIG-31 in general?
            Learn the materiel and be careful in your assumptions ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. -3
                21 October 2019 18: 22
                For idiots. The mass-produced Su-35S and Su-30s in our Air Force are not equipped with the R-37M missile ... They can carry it, but after completion .... If you do not agree, indicate at least one source, not yours and other Wishlist. .. Wanting and being able is not the same thing ... To stink about conscious lie evidence is needed ...
                From your headline:
                The novelty will be part of the armament of Russian fourth and fifth generation fighters.
                Future time !!!!
                1. +4
                  21 October 2019 18: 28
                  okko077 (Valery), are you tired of lying?
                  Quote: okko077
                  https://army-news.ru/2018/09/obespechit-li-raketa-r-37m-gospodstvo-nad-aviaciej-nato/

                  Quote: okko077
                  Second, who can carry it? At the moment, no one except MIG -31BM! And how many MIG-31BM do we have, and how many of them can be from the remaining 140 last MIG-31 in general?

                  You even try to write on your link lie! At least read the article by Evgeny Damantsev, to which you refer ...
                2. +3
                  21 October 2019 18: 36
                  For idiots! The hopes of young men feed ...! The missile is in service! Teach materiel!
                  1. -9
                    21 October 2019 19: 03
                    Dear kettle, who has not served in the Air Force for a day, no one argues with you ... There are no options for arming our Su-30 and Su-35S with the R-37M ... Remember ...
                3. -5
                  21 October 2019 18: 44
                  Read those:
                  https://topwar.ru/147598-snova-na-starye-grabli-chego-zhdat-ot-r-37m-bez-prjamotochnoj-naparnicy.html
                  and comments too ...
                  1. +5
                    21 October 2019 18: 54
                    Quote: Yevgeny Damantsev
                    As for the on-board electronic equipment of the rocket, in particular, the active radar seeker, then, at first glance, everything is pretty good. The 9B-1103M-350 “Puck” active radar homing head with an antenna blade diameter of 350 mm (mounted on a standard P-37) allows you to capture a target with an EPR of 1,5 square meters. m (F / A-18E / F "Super Hornet" with suspension) at a distance of 30 km...
                    ... The developer claims that the range of the radio correction channel from the carrier of the standard P-37 reaches only 100 km (1/3 of the radius of action). This means that, starting from a distance of 100 km, the R-37 (and possibly R-37M) switches to semi-active radar homing

                    Teach the materiel along with Evgeny Damantsev, who does not know how to count range and assumes what he does not know ...
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. -1
              22 October 2019 08: 25
              Unflattering reviews from Eugene Damantsev? So this is the best advertisement!
        2. +5
          21 October 2019 15: 41
          Quote: Arturov
          Quote: tatarin_ru
          those. today - no chance. The difference is four times. Even China has overtaken.
          Oh, the most expensive and powerful army in the world ...

          Russia has no nicherta yet, we read further
          R-37M rocket develops such a speed (expected - hypersonic)

          as always we will say cheers fellow
          The basis of the videoconferencing is so long as the junk that remains of the tips, they were already outdated both in electronics and in size.

          So run then calm your American comrades, otherwise they, unlike you, do not know what Russia has and what doesn’t.
          The resulting backlog was used to create an aviation interception complex for the MiG-31BM fighter-interceptor. The modified missile, made of Russian components, received the designation K-37M (product 610M). Under the designation RVV-BD, the rocket was repeatedly exhibited at exhibitions of military equipment. The state tests of the 610M product have been completed, the production of the on-board control complex has been entrusted to the Ural Design Bureau "Detail". MiG-31BMs are equipped with a new weapons control system and radar station, which will detect and simultaneously track up to ten air targets at a range of 320 kilometers.

          In 2014, the RVV-BD missile was adopted by the Russian Air Force, its mass production was officially launched (Bulletin of KTRV. No. 8 for 2015).

          http://авиару.рф/aviamuseum/dvigateli-i-vooruzhenie/aviatsionnoe-vooruzhenie/sssr/aviatsionnye-rakety/upravlyaemye-rakety/ur-vozduh-vozduh/upravlyaemaya-raketa-bolshoj-dalnosti-r-37-k-37-rvv-bd/
          1. +6
            21 October 2019 16: 35
            That's it, comrade
            Arturov Today, 15:14 PM NEW
            -1
            blown away. There is nothing to write about the essence of the matter. fellow
        3. 0
          21 October 2019 17: 46
          What, my dear, "green grapes"? bully Blow to Odessa there you have brought salvage boats. laughing
        4. -1
          22 October 2019 08: 21
          Russia has no nicherta yet, we read further
          -------------
          Yeah, and still write without grammatical errors
      2. -1
        21 October 2019 17: 42
        Yes, it seems not "expensive and powerful", but powerfully expensive. hi
    3. +7
      21 October 2019 14: 41
      The end of the article is fascinating ... Developing countries ... Only with them mattresses and fight
    4. +5
      21 October 2019 14: 58
      Damn, who is creating this news? America decided to reduce the backlog from the Russian auto industry: the Cadillac company launched the X4 crossover, which became the answer to the promising Russian Lada 4x4 Vision. Previously, the Cadillac model range did not have compact crossovers, but now, having realized their lag behind the VAZ, the Americans are trying to level the advantages of Russian manufacturers.
      1. +6
        21 October 2019 15: 52
        You do not touch our domestic auto industry. We do not live as a single VAZ. There is also GAZ, UAZ, Lada, PAZ, KAMAZ.
        On October 1, sales of the new UAZ "Patriot" in a version with automatic transmission began. The novelty is presented in four different trim levels. The price of new items starts at 1 rubles. Four complete sets: Optimum, Premium, Status and Edition I.
        As it was already reported on SuN, the Zavolzhsky Motor Plant, located in the Nizhny Novgorod Region, began mass production of ZMZ Pro engines prepared for working with “automatic machines”.

        https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/125227/
        1. 0
          21 October 2019 17: 06
          Yeah, 2019 is in the yard. An automatic transmission was invented at UAZ ... News from the category: how do you like Ilon Mask.
          Interestingly, what will the manufacturers of the Jeep Wrangler answer to the Russian novelty? How will their gap be reduced this time?
        2. 0
          21 October 2019 18: 39
          Ural forgot ...
          1. +3
            21 October 2019 19: 46
            Ural - yes, a fierce car. He was previously engaged in special equipment, in the middle lane they ordered at KAMAZ trucks (comfort, economy, etc.), and in the north, only the Urals. It will pass where it is generally possible, and if the Urals do not pass, then it is not possible, in principle.
            1. +1
              21 October 2019 21: 42
              I agree. I remember the Urals with the army. we had 4-5 Uralov. Germans gave their. I remember dragging us to the Urals and Styer and Reo. this is exactly what happened, if Reo or Stayer got stuck, they called the Urals for help, always pulled out. and if the Urals got stuck somewhere, then either a swamp is swampy. or a minefield. in general, no one will pass there, if the Urals did not pass, then that's it. direction crossed out.
        3. 0
          21 October 2019 22: 14
          You know the story of how a UAZ Patriot warranty got into an ankle-deep puddle, stalled and caught fire, burned out like a candle, with documents, money and things, the owner managed to snatch only a small son.
          The owner sued for a long time, received compensation, and the plant refused to correct the design defect in the transmission. Until the next burned ....
    5. +10
      21 October 2019 15: 02
      Quote: Arturov
      Quote: tatarin_ru
      those. today - no chance. The difference is four times. Even China has overtaken.
      Oh, the most expensive and powerful army in the world ...

      Russia so far nicherta doesn't have we read further
      R-37M rocket develops such a speed (expected - hypersonic)

      How always wake up cheers fellow
      The basis of the videoconferencing is so long as the junk that remains of the tips, they were already outdated both in electronics and in size.


      Go to school, you scumbag. I already did not begin to put punctuation marks. Oluh King of Heaven, there, in the elite row!
      1. -13
        21 October 2019 15: 33
        When there is nothing to answer - jump on literacy. Look at the content.
        1. +2
          21 October 2019 16: 08
          Quote: Crash
          When there is nothing to answer - jump on literacy. Look at the content.

          Look at the content.
          with the State Machine-Building Design Bureau "Vympel" them. I.I. Toropov, a state contract was signed for the manufacture and supply of "Product 180".

          https://ria.ru/20190627/1555978861.html
          Product 180 is K-77M, having a range of 200 km, and not K-77, as it is written in the article.
          Russia has K-77 and R-37M missiles flying 200 and 400 km, respectively.
        2. +4
          21 October 2019 16: 17
          The Chinese probably also do not know that Russia has nothing.
          K-77M uses a two-pulse solid-fuel engine, which, according to Sina, can provide high-altitude maneuvering. Actually, it is thanks to this power plant that the new missile is capable of destroying targets at a distance of 192 kilometers, which is much more than that of American counterparts from the AIM-120 family. In addition, a new combined control system consisting of an inertial navigation system and an active homing radar head is installed on the rocket.
          According to Chinese experts, Russia has acquired a real “iron fist,” which will knock out the United States in the production of air-to-air missiles. The development of Vympel already surpasses the latest American AIM-120D missile in all respects, so, apparently, a really formidable weapon is being prepared for the Su-57.

          https://politros.com/146773-tainstvennoe-izdelie-180-rossii-vpechatlilo-kitaiskie-smi
        3. 0
          22 October 2019 08: 28
          There is something to answer, but if the author of the post is not even able to write correctly - this already shows his level.
    6. +11
      21 October 2019 15: 07
      Damn, well, this happens: first in the hypersound the USA will catch up with the Russian Federation, then in the RVV database, then in fast reactors on liquid metal coolants, so, horrified, it will reach the elemental base of electronics laughing

      1. -2
        21 October 2019 18: 45
        It won't come, almost all research institutes dealing with microelectronics and materials have been closed since 91. Well, what microelectronics is without science ?! closed every one of the plants producing equipment for production. Buy only imported products. And the most modern and worth hundreds and hundreds of millions, and it is not sold. Only Americans do it. In Zelenograd there are only two factories with outdated equipment. Who is involved in "nanotechnology"? Right. Chubais. You don't have to ask him about the results ...
    7. +4
      21 October 2019 15: 45
      Quote: Crash
      When there is nothing to answer - jump on literacy. Look at the content.

      Illiterate expert. Jump on. Maybe you’ll agree on something with him. Take someone third.
    8. +2
      21 October 2019 15: 48
      Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
      Quote: Arturov
      Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
      Quote: Arturov
      Quote: tatarin_ru
      those. today - no chance. The difference is four times. Even China has overtaken.
      Oh, the most expensive and powerful army in the world ...

      Russia has no nicherta yet, we read further
      R-37M rocket develops such a speed (expected - hypersonic)

      as always we will say cheers fellow
      The basis of the videoconferencing is so long as the junk that remains of the tips, they were already outdated both in electronics and in size.

      Eka is tearing you apart. Only the United States wants to ban the Russian missile as much as the UN Charter ...

      I generally drum, only the article and the headline is the usual thick heading about nothing. and what is there to prohibit, a man wake up from the ury of the world.
      you don’t even have to go far
      https://topwar.ru/163650-rakety-ili-muzejnye-jeksponaty-chem-rossijskie-istrebiteli-budut-voevat-protiv-zapada.html
      laughing

      I don't care about you either. Don't push too hard. Pull up the letter, then "philosophize".

      The expert does not need a diploma. For here they have already objected to my post that one should not look at the letters, but at the thought.
    9. 0
      21 October 2019 16: 10
      "In such a context, the main advantage will not be the characteristics of the missiles, but their number on board the fighter." laughing
      In this case, it is necessary to change the missiles to PC blocks laughing
    10. -2
      21 October 2019 16: 25
      Yes, but f35 was in a very awkward position. Missiles have little speed, so you need to fly closer to our fighter plane closer than 40 km for the missile to fly, and from this distance the SU-35 OLS will notice it even in the front hemisphere. Yes, and the radar will certainly detect.
      1. +3
        21 October 2019 17: 47
        Yes, and the Pentagon went into denial. Doesn’t you want to understand the fabulous devices to buy. winked
        1. +1
          21 October 2019 17: 56
          Yes, the pindagon will buy them, it’s just that the allies will identify all the defects, they will finalize the car.
          1. +3
            21 October 2019 18: 07
            Exactly! Then the Pentagon will fork out. In the meantime, the United States takes allies for a throat and shakes their moshna. winked Nothing personal business.
            1. +1
              21 October 2019 18: 48
              And then not everyone agrees
      2. -3
        21 October 2019 20: 01
        "it is necessary to fly closer to our fighter obviously closer than 40 km" ////
        ----
        AMRAAM-120 confidently hits from 70-80 km.
        Which fighter? The Su-35 is visible very far away, its EPR is large.
        Su-57 when approaching head-on-forehead is more difficult to notice, of course.
        But F-35s usually work in groups, at a solid distance from each other.
        There is no ordinary master-slave deuce.
        Several F-35s exchanging information attack from several sides,
        without getting involved in the carousel. In the US exercises, the F-35 pair won
        at faster F-15s, using its stealth.
        1. 0
          21 October 2019 20: 32
          With 70 kilometers ??? After forty, he will simply turn around and the rocket will not physically catch up with him. The start-up range of the catch is about 15% of the maximum. This is a fighter and not a civilian liner with his missile launch warning system.
          1. -4
            21 October 2019 20: 41
            Missile defense maneuvers are possible if a missile is seen.
            You can run away with afterburner. In aerial combat - hundreds of options.
            1. -1
              21 October 2019 20: 54
              4 Su-30s of the Indian Air Force left a whole volley of missiles of two dozen missiles. Because it was far away. The Ethiopian su-27s in the first air battles could not hit targets because they made launches from long distances.
              1. -5
                21 October 2019 21: 41
                РЇ СЃРѕРіР »Р ° сен.
                Long-range explosive missiles have never been used in air
                battles. Medium-range explosives usually hit at distances
                half of the maximum performance characteristics.
                1. -3
                  21 October 2019 23: 05
                  Mostly closer than 20km.
      3. -2
        21 October 2019 22: 45
        Quote: Herman 4223
        in a very awkward position was f35. Rockets little speed little


        The missiles are already 6, not 4.

        Quote: Herman 4223
        it’s necessary to fly closer to our fighter than 40km


        How is the number 40 obtained? Why not 45, not 35, namely 40?
        1. -3
          21 October 2019 23: 03
          OLS su-35 in the front hemisphere the plane sees at a distance of 40km, in the rear 80. Near forty, you have to fly up so that the rocket just flew to the plane. There are not even forty, but even closer. How do you think the maximum missile launch range is obtained, under what circumstances?
          1. -3
            21 October 2019 23: 09
            Quote: Herman 4223
            OLS su-35 in the front hemisphere the plane sees at a distance of 40km


            They say it is impossible to shoot according to the OLS indications. And according to the stories of the participants in the training battles with the F-22, "you can already see it with your eyes, but the radar does not see it."

            Quote: Herman 4223
            Closer to forty you have to fly so that the rocket just flew to the plane. There are not even forty, but even closer.


            That is, you need to fly up not even 40km, but even closer. How much closer and how is this figure obtained?

            Quote: Herman 4223
            How do you think the maximum missile launch range is obtained, under what circumstances?


            Maximum - launch into the front hemisphere on the enemy in the opposite direction; there may be some other limitations. But the maximum range of the AMRAAM is 180km, where do you get 40km?
            1. -1
              21 October 2019 23: 12
              180 on a collision course, is that right, but also?
              1. -2
                21 October 2019 23: 14
                Is this an exam or are you just trying to get away from answering the question "how did you get the figure below 40 km"?
                1. -4
                  21 October 2019 23: 33
                  I don’t think you just take a look at the Internet and you’ll understand everything yourself. To begin with, you need to understand how to get a 180km number from a rocket whose initial launch range was 50-70 km, without changing the external dimensions. Direct technical revolution, but which for some reason does not occur in ground-based air defense systems. The Patriot rocket flying initially at 80km, did not fly at 180 or at least 120km. It is flying at 100km now. The launch range of the VV rocket depends on the height and speed of the launch. Imagine throwing a spear. If you throw it from a place, then it will fly a certain distance, but if you make sure it will fly a little more. The maximum launch range is obtained at maximum altitude, maximum speed, altitude target, on the opposite course. When starting from low altitudes, the launch range is not more than 30% of the maximum, to catch up to 15%, provided that the target does not fly at a higher speed than the plane from which the launch is carried out.
                  1. -4
                    22 October 2019 02: 11
                    Quote: Herman 4223
                    First you need to understand how to get the figure of 180 km from the rocket, the initial launch range of which was 50-70 km, without changing the external dimensions.


                    Is the "original" range the same as 30 years ago? Since then, new materials, new fuel could appear, the engine could be modified, aerodynamics improved.

                    Quote: Herman 4223
                    Direct technical revolution, but which for some reason does not occur in ground-based air defense systems


                    Americans traditionally neglect ground-based air defense systems. However, the AIM-120D is quite new - maybe still to come.

                    Quote: Herman 4223
                    Patriot rocket flying initially at 80km, did not fly at 180 or at least 120km. It is flying at 100km now


                    Do you have the same questions for R-37M and S-350?

                    Quote: Herman 4223
                    180 km was received from the board of f22, whose ceiling is 20 km, the maximum speed is 2400 km, and it is possible to launch missiles at supersonic speed.


                    "Supersonic speed" is only more than 1200 km / h. The F-35 is developing it, and on the Internet they say that he knows how to launch missiles at supersonic sound. What will prevent the AIM-120D from operating at full range?

                    Quote: Herman 4223
                    When starting from low altitudes, the launch range is not more than 30% of the maximum, to catch up to 15%, provided that the target does not fly at a higher speed than the plane from which the launch is carried out.


                    Finally, formulate the conditions in which the AIM-120D has to be used from a distance of less than 40 km. Type "start-up and higher".
                    1. -3
                      22 October 2019 07: 25
                      Oh, I think you have formulated everything. In order for a type of fighter target to be hit, the launch range should not exceed the effective one.
                      1. +1
                        22 October 2019 08: 38
                        Unfortunately, not all. There are also such concepts as the probability of hitting a target (depending on the type of target, its height, speed, angle), there is the concept of a zone of guaranteed destruction (non-escape zone, if it’s easier for someone).
                        Only, I'm afraid your opponent will be completely confused. He has already added S-37 to R-350M
                        1. -2
                          22 October 2019 09: 43
                          Quote: sivuch
                          Only, I'm afraid your opponent will be completely confused. He has already added S-37 to R-350M


                          I'm afraid you didn't notice how my opponent attached the AIM-120D to the Patriot. But, if you didn't know, surface-to-air missiles can be made on the basis of air-to-air missiles, so in some ways he is right.
                        2. 0
                          22 October 2019 09: 58
                          Of course they are. Here are just a technique for determining ranges is completely different
                        3. -2
                          22 October 2019 10: 00
                          Quote: sivuch
                          range determination technique is completely different


                          Say this to Herman 4223.
                        4. 0
                          22 October 2019 10: 26
                          I know this, and I’m trying to explain it to you on my fingers.
                        5. -1
                          22 October 2019 10: 06
                          Where did you see it? Petriot has another rocket, I brought it for example.
                        6. -3
                          22 October 2019 12: 25
                          Quote: Herman 4223
                          Petriot has another rocket, I brought it for example.


                          You have expressed doubts about the actual performance of the AIM-120D based on the fact that

                          Direct technical revolution, but which for some reason does not occur in ground-based air defense systems.


                          Hence the question - and you do not doubt the characteristics of the R-37M? The S-350 was also cited as an example, as was the Patriot.
                        7. -2
                          22 October 2019 18: 30
                          There, the same principles apply, no matter which rocket, at least p37, at least a120 is not important. First, the rocket receives an initial impulse, this is the height and speed of the carrier, then it accelerates due to its engine, and then much of it flies through energy like a projectile only controlled.
                        8. -2
                          22 October 2019 20: 29
                          There is no need to explain the principles - they are clear. The question is in the influence of air-to-air missiles on anti-aircraft missiles. If you expect this kind of impact in the case of the AIM-120D, you should expect it in the case of the P-37M.
                        9. -1
                          22 October 2019 09: 50
                          I’m trying to chew him how it turns out.
                    2. -3
                      22 October 2019 07: 32
                      At full range, the f35 will be prevented from launching a flight altitude lower by 2 kilometers and a speed lower by 500 kilometers than that of the f22. And the maximum range obtained from this aircraft.
                      1. -2
                        22 October 2019 09: 46
                        Quote: Herman 4223
                        At full range, the f35 will be prevented from launching a flight altitude lower by 2 kilometers and a speed lower by 500 kilometers than that of the f22. AND


                        The absolute height does not play a big role - the difference in heights with the height of the target is important. But if you think that a potentially lower launch speed of 500 km / h will reduce the range by 4.5 times - well, let it be.
                        1. 0
                          22 October 2019 10: 13
                          A rocket, when launched from a carrier, receives an initial impulse at launch, the higher the speed, the greater the initial impulse. At higher altitudes, the air is more discharged, the resistance to air flow is less. The difference in height also plays a significant role, so sometimes I write "with the maximum excess (kilometers).
                        2. -2
                          22 October 2019 10: 21
                          All your (indisputable) reasoning is qualitative: "more", "less", "plays an essential role." But 40 km is a very specific figure. How it is derived from "more" and less ", you do not explain.
                        3. 0
                          22 October 2019 11: 14
                          At the beginning I wrote about a specific aircraft and the possibility of its OLS. I’ll try to explain it again on my fingers. The maximum launch range is 180km. It was received from the f22 aboard at maximum altitude and speed. The missile launch range in catch-up (the most effective launch range, no maneuvers will save.) About 15% of the maximum. For the A120d, this is approximately 27 kilometers. This is what is called in greenhouse conditions. The F-35 will not even be there 27 km. In a real fight, both height and speed will be less. Forty kilometers or more is just a great distance where the plane will have time to turn and change altitude.
                        4. -2
                          22 October 2019 12: 21
                          Quote: Herman 4223
                          At the beginning I wrote about a specific aircraft and the possibility of its OLS.


                          You didn’t write why you should approach the theoretical limit of detecting an OLS for launch (and why exactly an OLS, not a radar). What prevents you from launching a rocket from a distance of, say, 50km (10km to the detection border), you did not explain.

                          Quote: Herman 4223
                          I’ll try to explain it again on my fingers. The maximum launch range is 180km. She received from the board f22 at maximum height and speed.


                          You are constantly talking about it. Do you have a link? I think arithmetic will be simple.
                        5. -4
                          22 October 2019 17: 44
                          From 50 km, the missile itself will be detected. The average EPR of explosive missiles ranges from 0.05 to 0.15. A Su-35 radar sees a target with an ESR of 0.1 at a range of 90 km, a radar detects missile launch at a maximum detection range. For the old Su 27 it’s 30 km, for the Su-35 it’s 80 km. If you launch a rocket from such a distance, then the attacker will have time for a missile defense, jamming.
                        6. -6
                          22 October 2019 21: 28
                          Quote: Herman 4223
                          From 50 km, the rocket itself will be detected.


                          ... and therefore we must start it with 40km.

                          Quote: Herman 4223
                          Su-35 radar target with EPR 0.1 sees at a range of 90 km


                          According to official data - 160 km. But don't forget to add "with a probability of 0.5".

                          In short, do you have a link to material on how the characteristics of the AIM-120D were filmed, or not?
                        7. 0
                          23 October 2019 07: 30
                          Sorry, what did you make of how the data was filmed? You didn’t fucking .. didn’t you understand? The best result is obtained from the best carrier of these missiles. And in the USA it’s just f22.
                        8. -2
                          23 October 2019 12: 02
                          Quote: Herman 4223
                          Sorry, what did you make of how the data was filmed?


                          Curious to me.

                          Quote: Herman 4223
                          You didn’t fucking .. didn’t you understand?


                          Just began to suspect that you, as it were more polite, juggle the facts.
                        9. 0
                          23 October 2019 12: 31
                          Why juggle them? There is evidence of maximum missile performance. If there is an understanding of how characterization is obtained, and there is general knowledge of carriers. It’s not difficult to guess from which device they were received.
                        10. -3
                          23 October 2019 12: 38
                          Quote: Herman 4223
                          Why juggle them?


                          Well, why do people even lie? Here it is the same.

                          Quote: Herman 4223
                          it’s not difficult to guess from which device they were received.


                          Guessing is great. Only now to guess at what speed and at what height the launch was made is impossible. This will not be a hunch, but a fantasy.
                        11. The comment was deleted.
                        12. +5
                          23 October 2019 01: 06
                          German 4223 (Alexander), you are grossly mistaken! Radar N035 "Irbis" target with
                          Image intensifier = 0,1 m2 detect at range D = 171 kmgoal with Image intensifier = 0,05 m2 on distance D = 143 km and everything in free space ...
                        13. 0
                          23 October 2019 06: 34
                          Sorry, I wanted to write 0.01, a typo.
                      2. -5
                        22 October 2019 10: 09
                        Almost all aerial combat was conducted at a pre- or transonic speed of 0.8-0.9 MAX. Explosives launched at 1/2 - 2/3 of their maximum range.
                        How will it be "in the future" - we'll see ...
                        1. -2
                          22 October 2019 11: 39
                          Nus if the attack goes on some old plane of the 80s, of course there you can beat and from large distances. Warning systems are weak or absent there. When the attack is noticed it will be too late. Therefore, moment 21 of you India was knocked down from a decent distance.
                        2. -6
                          22 October 2019 11: 53
                          Stealths introduce a fair amount of uncertainty into future air battles. Aircraft radars do not stealth even when IR optics already see it. But the radar should lead its rocket. Before the rocket hooks the target of its GOS. Moreover, this GOS should also be with IR video, and not with a locator, otherwise the stealth is not visible enough to fly to it.
                          That is: "I see stealth, I can't shoot, but I can run away."
                          The battle, as it were, is not lost, but his command will not let him run away endlessly. They will say: "forward! Shoot down the enemy!"
                        3. +6
                          23 October 2019 01: 17
                          Quote: voyaka uh
                          Stealths introduce a fair amount of uncertainty into future air battles. Aircraft radars do not stealth even when IR optics already see it. But the radar should lead its rocket. Before the rocket hooks the target of its GOS. Moreover, this GOS should also be with IR video, and not with a locator, otherwise the stealth is not visible enough to fly to it.
                          That is: "I see stealth, I can't shoot, but I can run away."

                          Horror! Warrior! It is useless for you to explain something with such knowledge. I tried several times, and you, as always, repeat your mantra on VO and actually what is beneficial for Israeli children’s strategists on VO ...
                    3. +6
                      23 October 2019 00: 55
                      Quote: Good_Anonymous
                      "Supersonic speed" is only more than 1200 km / h. F-35 develops it, and on the Internet they saythat he knows how to launch rockets at supersonic.

                      Good_Anonymus (Vasily)! F-35 can't fly with cruising supersonic speed throughout the flight without afterburner - in view of this, it is not a 5th generation aircraft. Therefore, the United States came up with a tale about some part of the flight at this speed for fools on the Internet who ate it and are nonsense on the Internet. Illiterate ignoramuses ...
                      1. 0
                        23 October 2019 10: 15
                        "throughout the flight without afterburner -" ////
                        ----
                        No plane can.
                        F-22 can fly at a speed of 1.6 MAX approximately 1500 km without afterburner.
                        And F-35 - with a speed of 1.2 MAX approximately 350 km without afterburner.
                        That is, he formally fulfilled the minimum requirement for the 5th generation.
                        1. -3
                          23 October 2019 12: 36
                          Quote: voyaka uh
                          And F-35 - with a speed of 1.2 MAX approximately 350 km without afterburner.


                          The F-35 accelerates to supersonic afterburner, then flies supersonic for a while. So the "minimum requirements" will be met by all supersonic aircraft.
                        2. 0
                          23 October 2019 13: 04
                          Many fighters can fly in supersonic mode. But usually - without hanging weapons and containers. "With a clean glider". The F-22 and F-35 always have a clean glider. With a weapon inside.
                          So, the comparisons are very conditional. F-35, I agree, cannot work as an interceptor or fighter to gain air supremacy. But aerial combat can be no worse than the F-16 (and Norwegian pilots claim that it’s even better).
                        3. 0
                          24 October 2019 01: 47
                          voyaka uh (Alexey), don't "put an owl on the globe" and write lies about the F-35.
                          Quote: voyaka uh
                          And F-35 - with a speed of 1.2 MAX approximately 350 km without afterburner.
                          That is, the minimum requirement for To the 5th generation, he formally performed.

                          Carefully! "But the lighter American F-35 fighter, which the United States itself also ranks as the fifth generation, corresponds to it only partially. Due to the design features, this aircraft can fly over-the-air without turning on the afterburner only about 150 km(according to other sources, no more than 150 miles or 240 km), or less than ten minutes "- https://stimul.online/articles/science-and-technology/favority-neba/. No wonder they call him a penguin ... Penguins do not fly like birds! wassat
                          Quote: voyaka uh (Alexey)
                          So, the comparisons are very conditional. F-35, I agree, cannot work as an interceptor or fighter to gain air supremacy. But aerial combat can be no worse than the F-16 (and Norwegian pilots claim that it’s even better).

                          For us, the United States is not liberated because it is sung for the sake of its patron. There are many statements by pilots in the United States and other countries on the Internet, where they clearly speak of the F-35 as an under-plane ...
                        4. 0
                          24 October 2019 08: 53
                          "There are many statements by pilots from the United States and other countries on the Internet" ////
                          ----
                          There were. Look at the dates.
                          Since December last year, all restrictions on glider overloads were removed.
                          And on the F-35 began to perform the same aerobatics as on the Su-35, Rafal and other fighters.
                        5. The comment was deleted.
                        6. 0
                          24 October 2019 09: 22
                          Quote: voyaka uh (Alexey)
                          Since December last year, all restrictions on glider overloads were removed.
                          And on the F-35 began to perform the same aerobatics as on the Su-35, Rafal and other fighters.

                          Alexei, you just made me laugh. And how is it possible? Equate the F-35 to the Su-35S and equalize the Su-35S with Rafal ... Learn concepts such as thrust-weight ratio, maneuverability, over-maneuverability, wing load and so on. Su-35S refers to super-maneuverable aircraft due to its engines with an all-round controlled thrust vector, but Rafal and F-35 do not, since they do not have such engines. Pilots Rafal and F-35, F-22 (they cannot be compared in view of the deviation of the thrust vector only in the vertical plane) and so on, cannot perform aerobatics, which is performed by pilots on the Su-35S - that’s the whole question. And especially firmware on aerodynamicit has no effect on the aircraft, if a priori it was initially sacrificed to stealth ...
                          No need to write fairy tales in view of the fact that the F-35 was purchased by Israel.
                        7. +1
                          24 October 2019 09: 31
                          "all the more, the software firmware does not affect the aerodynamics of the aircraft," ////
                          ----
                          On the F-35 - a central computer with an open architecture, not firmware. And it was the software that limited the plumage turns and engine power on bends. Because of this, the first pilots called the F-35 awkward.
                          Since the end of 2018, aces pilots showed sharp turns, stops in the air at a high angle of attack and other techniques for maneuverable aerial combat on the F-35.
                          I was glad to increase your knowledge of the F-35 aircraft fellow
                        8. +1
                          24 October 2019 09: 40
                          Thank you Alexey! I was glad to talk! Great plus for you perseverance!
                      2. -3
                        23 October 2019 12: 12
                        Quote: SETSET
                        F-35 cannot fly at cruising supersonic speed throughout the flight without afterburner


                        And, according to reports, after a minute of flight on the afterburner, the stealth coating begins to collapse (I don’t remember if it won or not).

                        Quote: SETSET
                        in view of this, it is not a 5th generation aircraft.


                        I have nothing against depriving the F-35 of the title of "fifth generation aircraft", but it is still a stealth striker with advanced sensors and sensor fusion, and decent characteristics for air combat (approximately F-16 or F-18). And which generation should be attributed to - yes at least to the third.
                        1. 0
                          24 October 2019 01: 58
                          Quote: Good_Anonymous
                          I have nothing against depriving the F-35 of the title of "fifth generation aircraft", but still it stealth-Drummer with advanced sensors and sensor fusion, and decent characteristics for air combat (about F-16 or F-18).

                          Do not write the word stealth - invisible aircraft do not exist in nature, at least not yet ... The N035 Irbis Su-35S radar will detect the F-35 at a range of D = 225 km in free space and a missile with ARGSN will hit it. However, only real air combat can dot all the i's.
                        2. -3
                          24 October 2019 10: 38
                          Quote: SETSET
                          Do not write the word stealth - invisible aircraft do not exist in nature


                          "Stealth", if anything, means "unobtrusive".

                          Quote: SETSET
                          The N035 "Irbis" Su-35S radar will detect the F-35 at a range of D = 225 km


                          Let's get 2250km. What they, the busurmans, to regret.
                        3. 0
                          24 October 2019 14: 23
                          Quote: Good_Anonymus (Vasily)
                          Quote: SETSET (Eugene)
                          Do not write the word stealth - invisible aircraft in nature does not exist, at least for now ...

                          Stealthif that means "inconspicuous".

                          Direct translation from english word stealth - invisible.
                          Quote: Good_Anonymus (Vasily)
                          Quote: SETSET (Eugene)
                          The N035 Irbis Su-35S radar will detect the F-35 at a range of D = 225 km in free space and a missile with ARGSN will hit it. However, only real air combat can dot all the i's.

                          Let's get 2250km. What they, the busurmans, to regret.

                          Your sarcasm is inappropriate in this case. Here is the calculation for radar!
                2. -3
                  21 October 2019 23: 39
                  180 km was received from the board of f22, whose ceiling is 20 km, the maximum speed is 2400 km, and it is possible to launch missiles at supersonic speed. At f15 whose speed is greater and the same flight altitude, such a range will not work because he is not capable of launching rockets at super sound, f35 will also fail. its altitude and maximum speed are lower.
    11. +1
      22 October 2019 06: 50
      Peregrine rocket will be about half the size of AMRAAM
      Two times smaller in size, that is, 8 times less volume. But the range is declared no less, and even higher. Have they invented gravitsapu? Not otherwise than here Gridasova read. With his alternative approaches to the laws of nature. Developers urgently need to develop a space rocket and give Ilon Mask. With such a leap in efficiency, it will be a monopolist of launches for centuries to come.
      The Raytheon Peregrine, similar in its characteristics to the AIM-120, will also become the weapon of the fifth generation fighter. It can be used in battles with the air forces of developing countries, operating old-style equipment. In this context, the main advantage will not be the characteristics of the missiles, but their number on board the fighter.
      Yes, naughty NURsami. You can cram them uh ... a lot.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. -3
        22 October 2019 13: 21
        Quote: abrakadabre
        Two times smaller in size, that is, 8 times less volume.


        Why guess? Peregrine is announced to have a weight of 22kg and a length of 1.8m (4 and 2 times less than Sidewinder).

        Quote: abrakadabre
        But the range is declared no less, and even higher.


        Who is declared?
      4. The comment was deleted.

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