Military Review

In China, they were outraged by the statement that the K2 Black Panther tank was completely superior to the Type99A

65
Manufacturers showcase upgraded version at ADEX 2019 in Seoul tank K2 Black Panther. This is a South Korean tank with dynamic protection NERA, which was adopted by the country's army in 2014.


In China, they were outraged by the statement that the K2 Black Panther tank was completely superior to the Type99A


The hype surrounding the display of this tank arose in China. The reason for the hype was that experts in the Republic of Korea, discussing the updated version of the Black Panther, said that it "significantly surpasses many modern tanks, including the Chinese Type99A." Type99A - a Chinese tank, which in the PRC media is often called "one of the most advanced."

They were outraged in China by the fact that in South Korea they declared the complete superiority of the K2 over the Type 99A in terms of maneuverability, survivability and firepower. Moreover, a particular discontent in the PRC media is due to the fact that South Korean colleagues, talking about the Black Panther version, carried out a comparative analysis with the Chinese military machine. In particular, in Seoul they said that “if we compare the South Korean and Chinese tanks, then we can say that one K2 is worth several Type99A in its most important indicators.” It is difficult to say on what basis such a conclusion was made, but the fact that he clearly hurt the Chinese experts is a fact.

In response to South Korean trolling, Chinese media reported that "in fact, the Black Panther tank repeatedly demonstrated poor maneuverability during demonstration operational races at exhibitions, failing to overcome even simple obstacles."

Such reciprocal injections in the media can hardly be called truly expert assessments. To a greater extent, they resemble attempts to hurt an opponent and advertise their own weapons in the international arena.

Some TTX K2 and Type99A:

The length of the hull with the gun forward is 10,8 m and 10,92 m, respectively, the combat weight is 55 t and 54 t, the caliber is 120 mm and 125 mm, the ammunition load is 40 and 41 shell, the engine power is 1500 hp for both tanks, the range on the highway is 450 km for both tanks, the wall to be overcome is 1,3 m and 0,85 m, the ford to be overcome is 1,4 m and 1,3 m.
65 comments
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  1. Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 20 October 2019 21: 20
    +22
    They were indignant in China with the fact that in South Korea they declared the complete superiority of the K2 over the Type 99A in terms of maneuverability, survivability and firepower.

    Business then! To land somewhere on an uninhabited river island two-by-two and let them butt on the principle "there should be only one left." Tote again, then ...
    1. Shurik70
      Shurik70 20 October 2019 21: 33
      +8
      The overcome wall of 1,3 meter.
      Very impressive. I wonder how this was achieved.
      The larger the wheel, the greater the obstacle it can overcome. Replacing the wheel with a caterpillar, the size of the wheel changes to the height of the drive wheel. So nothing comes to mind except to raise the drive wheel higher.

      The decision, in my opinion, is controversial. Patency is better, but the caterpillar target is getting bigger.
      On the other hand, recent battles with the destruction of tanks have shown that now they are most often struck by force rather than accuracy. Bombs, heavy shells, anti-tank missiles. All this struck into the hull or tower, but not into the caterpillar.
      1. Hog
        Hog 21 October 2019 01: 35
        +12
        Hydro-pneumatic suspension, you can pick up the nose and call on a high wall
      2. self-propelled
        self-propelled 21 October 2019 11: 03
        -2
        Quote: Shurik70
        The overcome wall of 1,3 meter.
        Very impressive. I wonder how this was achieved.

        you know a joke about an old man with a young wife and an old neighbor, who saysthat can in its 80 years, three times a night. ...so you say...
        here just now it was said that the Chinese tanks "type ...- .." are superior to the T-90, and, as a result, now the Korean K2 is also superior ... you see a good tank school that the PRC has, that of South Korea ... and fired in battles T-90 and _72 (with letters), so, about nothing ... "you say the main thing ..."
        incidentally, and the "javelin", it turns out, smashes the T-72 in rags ... here they explain with reference to events -
        https://cont.ws/@fanC/1478986
        wassat
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 21 October 2019 16: 49
          0
          The Chinese all our technology was blamed as best they could at any opportunity.
          The Koreans decided that they could do the same and issued a "comparison". laughing
      3. mvg
        mvg 23 October 2019 02: 06
        -1
        except raise the drive wheel higher

        Does the option "hydro-pneumatic suspension, with adjustable ground clearance" mean anything?
    2. Cut Samshitov
      Cut Samshitov 20 October 2019 21: 39
      +16
      Yeah .. I remember the Leopards were also considered super tanks. But how they got into battle - they burn! So the main thing in the tank is the crew plus the organization of interaction with other branches of the armed forces. The experience of World War II confirms.
    3. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 20 October 2019 21: 43
      +5
      They were outraged in China by the fact that in South Korea they declared the complete superiority of K2 over Type 99A

      Look how the Chinese have become touchy! As they say, "dear mom" is straight forward!
      This they supposedly wanted to say, we copied everything correctly, even improved it, but they screw us up?
      So let them say so bluntly that they did better after making improved copies of tanks and planes!
      1. Siberia 75
        Siberia 75 21 October 2019 07: 26
        +5
        Quote: Starover_Z
        Look how Chinese have become touchy

        Maybe it's good that Donald our Fredovich RNND collapsed. I always believed that the main threat to Russia is not soft hostages, but a half billion yellow rabbits.
  2. V1er
    V1er 20 October 2019 21: 27
    +12

    K2 Black Panther.
    Combat weight, t 55,0
    Layout: classic Soviet. Crew 3
    Dimensions:
    Case length, mm 7500, length with gun 10 800 mm. Width, 3600 mm. Height, 2200 mm
    Reservation
    Armor type: combined, anti-cannon armor. Case forehead: mm / deg. n / a / <650mm from the KS (there is evidence of damage from RPG-29). Tower forehead: mm / deg. n / a / 1000-1300mm from the COP. Dynamic protection - NERA
    Armament:
    Caliber and brand of gun 120 mm Rheinmetall Rh-120. Type of gun: smooth-bore caliber 55. Ammunition: 40 shells
    Machine guns: 1 × 7,62 mm MG 3i, 1 × 12,7 mm K6
    Other weapons: ATGM KSTAM
    Mobility
    Engine type: Doosan Infracore DV27K hp with. 1500. Speed ​​on the highway, km / h 75. Speed ​​on rough terrain, km / h 50. Cruising on the highway, km 450. Suspension type: individual hydropneumatic. Gradeability, hail. 31 °, wall, m 1,3, ford, m n / a (4,1 s ATR)


    Type 99 (ZTZ-99A)
    Combat weight, t 54,0
    Crew, pers. Xnumx
    dimensions
    Length with gun forward, mm 10920. Width, mm 3372. Height, mm 2200. Ground clearance, mm 470
    Booking:
    Armor type: steel rolled and cast combined, anti-shell. Forehead, mm / city. equivalent to armor: 500-600 mm against BOPS. Tower forehead, mm / city. Equivalent to armor: 700 mm against BPS, 1000-1200 mm against cumulative ammunition
    Active Protection: JD-3
    Dynamic Protection: Built-in
    weaponry
    Caliber and brand of gun 125 mm ZPT-98 (unlicensed copy 2A46M). Type of gun - smoothbore. Barrel length, caliber 48. Ammunition of the gun: 41 (of which 22 in the AZ). Angles VN, deg. −6 ... + 14 °. Firing Range, km ATGM: 5,0
    Machine guns: 1 × 12,7 mm QJC-88, 1 × 7,62 mm Type 86
    Other weapons: ATGM "Reflex"
    Mobility:
    Engine type MB 871 Ka-501. Engine power, l with. 1500. Speed ​​on the highway, km / h 80. Speed ​​on rough terrain, km / h 60. Cruising on the highway, km 450 (700 with external tanks). Specific Power, l s / t 27,8. Suspension type: individual torsion bar. Track width, mm 580. The overcome wall, m 0,85
    Overcoming ditch, m 2,7
    Walking ford, m 1,4 (5,0 with OPVT)
    1. Vasyan1971
      Vasyan1971 20 October 2019 21: 32
      +3
      The Korean looks more modern, but "don't drink water from your face."
      1. yehat
        yehat 22 October 2019 11: 56
        0
        Korean adapted for mountain action
        stronger emphasis on the frontal armor; more elaborate shooting options with large vertical angles
        and tip99 is a flat tank that the Chinese are trying to make long marches (not very successful so far)
        Type-10 is not comparable with these tanks in terms of protection - significantly inferior, but much better in mountains and narrow roads.
    2. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter 20 October 2019 22: 05
      +7
      Plus minus these are equal machines, similar in their capabilities. Here I would add Type-10. (main battle tank of Japan).
      1. Private-K
        Private-K 21 October 2019 06: 57
        0
        Still, the Type10 was made fundamentally lighter - 44 tons against 54-55 from the Chinese and Korean iron counterparts. And this, t.s., imposes. The reservation will probably be weaker. But there is no open data about him.
    3. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter 20 October 2019 22: 17
      +2
      The main characteristics of the Type-10 tank.
      Main characteristics

      Classification - main battle tank;
      Mass - 44 tons;
      The layout scheme is classic;
      Crew - three people;
      Years of production - since 2010;
      Years of operation - since 2012;
      Total released - 76 pieces.
      dimensions

      Length with gun - 9485 mm;
      Case width - 3240 mm;
      Height - 2300 millimeters.
      Reservation

      Type of armor - anti-shell, modular combined.
      weaponry

      Caliber and brand of gun - 120 mm Rheinmetall Rh-120;
      Type of gun - smoothbore;
      Barrel length - 44 caliber;
      Machine guns - 1 × 7,62 mm Type 74, 1 × 12,7 mm M2HB.
      Mobility

      Engine type - diesel supercharged;
      Power - 1200 horsepower;
      Speed ​​on the highway - 70 kilometers per hour;
      Specific power - 27 horsepower per ton;
      Suspension type - hydropneumatic, active

      The link below is a lot of videos of the Type-10 tank.
      http://tanki-tut.ru/japan/tip-10-novejshij-yaponskij-osnovnoj-tank/
      1. Chaldon48
        Chaldon48 21 October 2019 02: 44
        -1
        Let them butt, reminiscent of a kid’s showdown, you do ak, no it's you ak. And our T-90 is in authority and that’s it.
        1. missuris
          missuris 21 October 2019 06: 20
          0
          T-90 is simply much cheaper and more technologically advanced in production (production technology is better developed).
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 21 October 2019 12: 33
            +1
            Quote: missuris
            T-90 is simply much cheaper and more technologically advanced in production (production technology is better developed).

            Not only .... Soviet (Russian) tanks for war, and are the most warring tanks in the world. A Black Panther, Types Japanese, Chinese, Turkish tank, etc. are more for parades, although they are capable of shooting and something to overcome there. Today, only two tank building schools are the best in the world, this is ours and German, precisely because the Second World War gave a strong impetus to the development of these schools.
            1. yehat
              yehat 22 October 2019 11: 57
              +1
              WWII experience is already outdated by 80 years. do not overestimate it.
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 22 October 2019 14: 34
                0
                Quote: yehat
                WWII experience is already outdated by 80 years. do not overestimate it.

                The question is not in experience, but in the impetus of development. We are a continental power and therefore armored forces are vital for us.
                1. yehat
                  yehat 22 October 2019 14: 53
                  -1
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  armored forces are vital to us.

                  Turkey has a population of 82 million, tanks about 4000 thousand - from the old American modernized to leopards and Altai.
                  RF population 130 million, 3k tanks in service, 10k in storage
                  it turns out that in the ranks of our tanks many times less than that of the Turks per capita.
                  and I will notice that Turkey has never been a tank mecca.
    4. Spike Javelin Touvich
      Spike Javelin Touvich 21 October 2019 19: 47
      0
      Engine type: Doosan Infracore DV27K power l. from. Xnumx
      Not certainly in that way . This is the license of the German MTU-1500
      1. V1er
        V1er 21 October 2019 20: 29
        0
        Thank you for correcting. But, alas, comments can be edited here only a short time after publication)
  3. Nycomed
    Nycomed 20 October 2019 21: 27
    +9
    We saw a Chinese tank stalled at a tank biathlon. According to the Chinese tankman, the weather was to blame. request
    1. Cheerock
      Cheerock 20 October 2019 21: 34
      +6
      And a fallen skating rink. The weather was also to blame, apparently.
      1. Nycomed
        Nycomed 20 October 2019 21: 41
        +1
        Well, definitely!
      2. Ravil_Asnafovich
        Ravil_Asnafovich 20 October 2019 22: 52
        +4
        Well, yeah, and you have to invite the Korean to the tank biathlon very persistently
      3. avdkrd
        avdkrd 20 October 2019 23: 27
        +5
        Quote: CheeRock
        And a fallen skating rink. The weather was also to blame, apparently.

        Since the Korean was not at the biathlon at all, this is not the fact that he is better. In general, the panther has a Leopard ideology and is hardly very different in combat capabilities. The Chinese are at least half the price, which in my opinion makes him the leader in this comparison. The characteristics are generally similar, albeit on paper, but China does not depend on imported components and owns a full cycle of technology. Engine, gun, SLA, chassis, all their own. Korea simply has a Lego, from imported components, perhaps even a successful one, but a Lego.
        1. Private-K
          Private-K 21 October 2019 07: 00
          +1
          What can I say - invite all three to biathlon! wink And arrange a peaceful competition of military vehicles.
          1. Marconi41
            Marconi41 21 October 2019 11: 08
            0
            Quote: Private-K
            What can I say - invite all three to biathlon! And arrange a peaceful competition of military vehicles.

            And what should we put on this biathlon? T-72, T-90 ??? Or even immediately T-14. Although the T-90 is precisely their classmate, but will it cope?
            1. Private-K
              Private-K 21 October 2019 16: 11
              0
              T-90M what is bad? Why not cope? Here the work of the crew is more important than formal characteristics - they are then approximately equal.
              1. Marconi41
                Marconi41 21 October 2019 18: 22
                -1
                Quote: Private-K
                T-90M what is bad? Why not cope?

                T-90 is less technological, which means it can lose at the firing range.
        2. Private-K
          Private-K 22 October 2019 07: 40
          0
          The new Korean tank has the "ideology" of the French Leclerc!
          They are very similar in appearance. And the loader is crazy. And 3 crew members.
          And the Leopard concept has nothing to do with it.
    2. Chaldon48
      Chaldon48 21 October 2019 07: 15
      +1
      Well, yes, everything hinders a bad dancer, and the weather and the floor of the curve are not well trained.
  4. svp67
    svp67 20 October 2019 21: 35
    +8
    Moreover, a particular discontent in the PRC media is due to the fact that the South Korean colleagues, talking about the Black Panther version, carried out a comparative analysis with the Chinese combat vehicle.
    The casket just opens, this tank is now being considered by the Taiwan authorities for purchase to equip its own army.
    They were indignant in China with the fact that in South Korea they declared the complete superiority of the K2 over the Type 99A in terms of maneuverability, survivability and firepower.
    The best exam for armored vehicles is combat. Before the "test by force" and "Leopard-2" was considered the most advanced combat vehicle, but after the "fiasco" in Syria, the opinion changed dramatically.
    In this case, not the one, not the other tank "test by force" did not pass. Alternatively, it would be necessary to invite the teams of China and the Republic of Korea, to come with these tanks to our "tank biathlon", that's where they would be compared.
    1. _Ugene_
      _Ugene_ 20 October 2019 21: 50
      +1
      Alternatively, it would be necessary to invite the teams of China and the Republic of Korea, come with these tanks to our "tank biathlon", that's where they would be compared.

      if on our biathlon tanks were shooting at real targets and not at plywood and targets would shoot in response, then it would be possible to compare the technique, then what happens on this "biathlon" is very far from a real battle, it is more of a show
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 20 October 2019 22: 05
        +7
        Quote: _Ugene_
        very far from a real battle, it’s more like a show

        Conventionality certainly holds. However, everything is on an equal footing. And our tankers win it regularly ... The Chinese comrades are offended. Already half of the armor of the tank became removed, but still.
        Compete in a real battle - God forbid. However, tank training is the most important factor in victory. No technique will help.
        1. _Ugene_
          _Ugene_ 20 October 2019 22: 29
          +1
          so I’m talking about it - almost everything here depends on the crew’s training, and since our tracks are, our tank crews can train on them all year round, therefore it’s problematic to evaluate the real combat effectiveness of the equipment based on the results of these competitions
          1. svp67
            svp67 21 October 2019 04: 31
            -2
            Quote: _Ugene_
            so I’m talking about it - almost everything here depends on the crew’s training,

            No, not at all. The Chinese were superior in accuracy to our tanks, they were equal in speed, but they turned out to be worse in reliability. And here the training is no longer how the Chinese crews could not help
      2. Salty
        Salty 20 October 2019 22: 05
        +3
        Quote: _Ugene_
        if on our biathlon tanks shot at real targets and not at plywood and shot at targets

        This is overkill. What is called "biathlon" is a hybrid of standard UUS and driving with show elements. You will not see more anywhere, in peacetime, at least.
      3. svp67
        svp67 21 October 2019 04: 26
        +2
        Quote: _Ugene_
        what happens on this "biathlon" is very far from the real fight

        I do not agree. Skills on the action of an individual crew are practiced quite on the level.
        Quote: _Ugene_
        rather show

        I will not argue, but this is a "show". And nevertheless, thanks to this, as well as on demonstration sites at large arms exhibitions, everyone can clearly see the speed and maneuverability of the tank, its ability to overcome obstacles, as well as the time to detect targets and the time to open fire, as well as accuracy hits. It is worth mentioning the reliability. Remember that the Chinese tank is just that much inferior to ours. So, there is something to compare.
        It would be interesting to see how the German-Korean creation will behave in these extreme conditions.
      4. Private-K
        Private-K 21 October 2019 07: 03
        0
        But the rules of tank biathlon can give at least some idea of ​​the combat characteristics of vehicles outside of commercials and the claimed indicators.
    2. Vita vko
      Vita vko 20 October 2019 22: 12
      0
      Quote: svp67
      Alternatively, it would be necessary to invite the teams of China and the Republic of Korea, to come with these tanks to our "tank biathlon", that's where they would be compared

      How can you compare anything in modern combat? For example, under equal conditions, the average tank lifetime is from 7 to 12 minutes. Therefore, it is not necessary to invent tank confrontations. In modern warfare, the one who will be able to get more complete information about the enemy and hide information about the actions of his troops will win.
      1. svp67
        svp67 21 October 2019 04: 29
        +1
        Quote: Vita VKO
        For example, under equal conditions, the average tank lifetime is from 7 to 12 minutes.

        A tank platoon, company, battalion ...? If you have already decided to duplicate these mathematical calculations, continue them and you yourself will MUCH be surprised at the order of numbers
        Quote: Vita VKO
        Therefore, it is not necessary to invent tank confrontations.

        Sorry, but this is a purely marketing gimmick aimed at increasing sales of their defense products.
  5. Graz
    Graz 20 October 2019 21: 37
    +1
    Well, the Korean is likely to be of better quality, but he probably stands like 2-3 Chinese tanks
  6. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 20 October 2019 22: 01
    +5
    Bring us to biathlon laughing That will be a more or less objective comparison. Who travels faster and more accurately erases. What waste paper to dirty ...
    1. Nycomed
      Nycomed 20 October 2019 22: 07
      +2
      So the Chinese already arrived with their equipment. They made a full talk. lol
  7. rocket757
    rocket757 20 October 2019 22: 19
    +2
    Everywhere Kuliki and everyone has their own swamps !!!
  8. Ural-4320
    Ural-4320 20 October 2019 22: 26
    +2
    Inspired by ...
    - M-cooler than Kalash!
    - M-shit, Kalash is cooler!
    - 4-1 cool - shoots three rounds!
    - Bullshit is complete, 3-2 is better than her.
    1. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith 21 October 2019 07: 49
      0
      Contra?))

      Kalash is killer, more precisely + PBS))
      1. Ural-4320
        Ural-4320 21 October 2019 10: 03
        0
        I had it !!!!!
        So it was - counter 1.6 laughing
  9. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 20 October 2019 22: 55
    0
    Diesel - Derivatives of MTU?
  10. Pavel57
    Pavel57 20 October 2019 23: 28
    +1
    Let face off in Alabino.
  11. shadow
    shadow 20 October 2019 23: 56
    +2
    Want a new tank in tank biathlon? Let the Chinese invite the South Koreans with their tank to participate in it. This is where their tank looks better.
  12. Klingon
    Klingon 21 October 2019 00: 16
    +1
    business then! both on tank biathlon (at least) let's see which of them jammed the tower wassat
  13. tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 21 October 2019 04: 07
    0
    - "to advertise their own weapons in the international arena" is a completely normal phenomenon, all according to the regional committee option.
  14. IAI-Azerbaijan
    IAI-Azerbaijan 21 October 2019 06: 47
    +3
    The fact that instead of a single Korean, you can get several Chinese can be a plus. But on constant servicing - that is, will delivery and replacement of often multiple trunks be easier and cheaper than for a single tank? Will there be cheaper fuel and oil for several tanks than for one?
    Fight for example on the Syrian plain at a distance of 5 km, on the one hand there are 2 Chinese tanks with a maximum firing range of 3-4 km, and not so accurate, against one Korean, with a maximum (and accurate) firing range of 6 km. Who has a plus?
    (One commando with a modern RMB at a distance of 1500m is capable of destroying three barmales with ak47.)

    Now, many third countries need cheap, maximally efficient and survivable tanks, and not enough money for Koreans and Germans - they buy T72 all the same wherever they find, in the Russian Federation, Belarus or Ukraine, and in no way even look in the direction of the Chinese new tanks that have been aggressively offered to them by the Chinese side for 10 years. What is wrong with Chinese tanks? I know for sure that it’s not a matter of advertising, they have it as good as possible. What then?
    1. Private-K
      Private-K 21 October 2019 07: 10
      0
      Now, many third countries need cheap, maximally efficient and survivable tanks, and not enough money for Koreans and Germans - they buy T72 all the same wherever they find, in the Russian Federation, Belarus or Ukraine, and in no way even look in the direction of the Chinese new tanks that have been aggressively offered to them by the Chinese side for 10 years. What is wrong with Chinese tanks?


      Because 100 old ones, with limited combat characteristics, are better than 10 brand new supposedly super-dupers.
      In addition, these countries do not engage in large-scale tank battles with an equal or stronger enemy. For them, tanks are mobile micro-fortresses with powerful lay arms; infantry fire support; means of breaking and crushing the defense ...
      1. IAI-Azerbaijan
        IAI-Azerbaijan 21 October 2019 07: 42
        +3
        Against the militants, with their rifle, with a maximum of carts and guns, I agree that 100 old T72s are better than 10 ultramodern tanks.
        But personally, my opinion is, if an army is an army - 50 ultra-modern tanks are better than 100 old T72s. This is purely IMHO. Ie 1 good is better than 2 bad.
        1. Private-K
          Private-K 21 October 2019 08: 06
          0
          So it does not work out such a ratio! The difference is 5-10 times!
  15. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 21 October 2019 07: 44
    +1
    In China, they were outraged by the statement that the K2 Black Panther tank was completely superior to the Type99A


    Is it true that it hurts your eyes?)) At least for the price it certainly surpasses the Chinese tank))

    Yes, and let the Chinese relax, there are enough tanks in the world that are superior to the Chinese tank))
  16. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 21 October 2019 08: 32
    -1
    China will never make the world's best tank, plane, rocket. For, the factory of the world, there can be no KB of the world. The Russian Federation (USSR) is the KB of the world. The USA cannot pretend to be a design bureau - it is a printing press of the world, they buy all their brains and ideas at the root.
  17. Khrundy Kabanovich
    Khrundy Kabanovich 21 October 2019 17: 36
    +2
    Tank biathlon, of course yes ...
    The hosts will search the track for 500 times, until automatic, and then heroically defeat all the guests ......
    The conditions are as close as possible to combat, do not go to the boot .....
  18. RF 99450
    RF 99450 22 October 2019 15: 18
    0
    After the Chinese tank collapsed at the last tank biathlon, I believed in the invincibility of Chinese tanks))
  19. Tarasios
    Tarasios 22 October 2019 18: 18
    0
    I really want to stir up the poster, like:
    Who is better?
    K2? Type 99A.
    K2? Type 99A.
    K2? Type 99A.
    ... T-14 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    :)))