Uninhabited combat module: an expensive toy or an element useful in battle?

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In Russia, in recent years, a large number of uninhabited combat modules have been created: "Crossbow", "Boomerang-BM", AU-220М "Baikal", "Epoch", etc. The new Russian main battle tank “Armata” received an uninhabited tower with the main armament complex. Despite the fact that uninhabited combat modules have existed for more than a dozen years, their use in battle still raises questions. The main one is: like weapon Is it a tribute to fashion or a really necessary technical solution?

Uninhabited combat module: an expensive toy or an element useful in battle?

Uninhabited tower for armored personnel carrier "Namer"


The appearance of uninhabited combat modules


Uninhabited combat modules, or, as they are also called, remotely controlled combat modules (DBMS), first appeared in the late 1980s. The need for such devices was felt by one of the most howling armies in the world - the Israeli. It was in this country that uninhabited combat modules were widely used; the Israelis installed a DBM on their armored vehicles and armored personnel carriers. The main purpose of the appearance of such installations was to reduce losses among personnel. Also, it always helps to reduce the number of crew of military equipment. Currently, Israel is actively continuing to develop such types of weapons, well aware of their importance in modern realities. One of the latest Israeli developments is an uninhabited turret with cannon and missile weapons for the heavy armored personnel carrier "Namer", built on the basis of tank Merkava.



The Israelis immediately appreciated the combat effectiveness of such modules. Their loss of manpower from random or dense fire during operations in the Arab territories decreased several times. At the same time, uninhabited combat modules showed their effectiveness both in the context of counter-terrorism operations in the open and in dense urban areas.

Following Israel, the Americans showed interest in uninhabited combat modules. The US Army felt the need for such weapons during the second Iraqi campaign, which began in 2003. The serial production of uninhabited combat modules for the needs of the American army was launched in 2006-2008. Moreover, suppliers of such systems were not only American companies, but also companies from Israel and Norway. In the end, the units that performed combat missions in Iraq used the 700 uninhabited RWS M151 Protector combat modules manufactured by the Norwegian company Kongsberg, as well as the 200 M101 CROWS modules produced by the American company Recon Optical. Typically, DBMSs were installed on HMMWV armored vehicles of various modifications, as well as Stryker wheeled armored personnel carriers.


RWS M151 Protector Remote-Controlled Combat Module


It is worth noting that uninhabited combat modules were previously used in aviation or navy, but in the ground forces began to be actively used only in recent decades. All such installations are implemented within the framework of one concept, when the main armament of the combat vehicle is carried out in a separate module, and the crew or crew is either reliably hidden by armor in the hull or capsule, or located at a distance from the combat module. At the same time, the crew or crew, being in conditions of the greatest possible security, are able to confidently hit targets on the battlefield, including using high-precision weapons. In modern realities, when local military conflicts arise around the world, the need for such modules, which increase the combat capabilities of motorized rifle units and provide reduced personnel losses, is only increasing.

In Russia today, a large number of various models of DBMs with machine-gun, cannon and cannon-rocket weapons have been created. In this regard, Russian designers are following global trends, although in our country such modules are still less common than in the armies of Western countries and are not mass-produced. With the exception of BMPT Terminator issued in homeopathic quantities, in which the main armament is carried out in a separate remotely controlled combat module.

The debate about the usefulness of an uninhabited combat module


Despite the fact that uninhabited combat modules with different composition of weapons are created, mass-produced and used in combat operations, disputes about their effectiveness and usefulness arise from time to time. If such modules were created by only one country and did not find wide application, this could still be said. However, such weapons are actively being developed by a huge number of states, have already been adopted and are used in hostilities. The same Russian BMPT “Terminator” were tested in combat conditions in Syria. Therefore, one should not even doubt the competence of designers who are constantly working on new remotely controlled combat modules.


BMPT "Terminator"


The main arguments of the opponents of such combat modules, sometimes called armaments for parades and shows, include the likelihood of light damage by small arms and the fragments of shells and mines from complex optical devices and other important equipment that are part of the fire control system. At the same time, in real combat conditions, all the optics that are important for the FCS are covered with armored shutters and bulletproof glass. Naturally, sophisticated optics, radars, sensors, like any other equipment, can be destroyed by concentrated fire or direct hits, including from large-caliber automatic weapons and automatic guns. But with the same success it is possible to disable modern panoramic and thermal imaging sights on tanks and other armored vehicles and with inhabited towers, which has been repeatedly demonstrated during the local military conflicts of recent decades.

At the same time, dense enemy fire or sniper fire, which poses the greatest threat to modern optics, is dangerous only at a limited range. Most of all in city conditions, when the enemy can get close to armored vehicles. But in this case, it is worth fearing not the defeat of the elements of the MSA, but the destruction of the entire machine together with the crew. At the same time, modern uninhabited combat modules are equipped with sophisticated reconnaissance and target designation systems, thermal imagers, target tracking machines, which significantly increases the fire capabilities of such devices. The presence in their composition of automatic artillery weapons and ATGM allows you to hit targets at a great distance. Therefore, armored vehicles equipped with such modules can confidently hit targets at distances up to 3-5 kilometers. At such a distance, a machine with a DBM is invulnerable to enemy fire, no matter how dense it is. And most snipers of squads or platoons are armed with weapons that can confidently hit growth targets at a distance of up to 600, a maximum of 800 meters. The use of professional snipers or fighters of special operations armed with large-caliber ultra-precision sniper rifles (anti-material) capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 1,5-2 kilometers to fight armored vehicles is also unlikely. In this case, it is much easier to use anti-tank systems, which, if the outcome is successful for the calculation, can disable any military equipment.

However, not every enemy in the arsenal has a sufficient number of anti-material rifles, anti-tank systems and missiles for them. Modern wars are not long ago clashes of equal strength in armies. Often, military operations are conducted against terrorist or weakly armed separatist units. In such conditions, armored vehicles equipped with uninhabited combat modules are especially effective, allowing you to confidently hit targets from a safe distance for the crew. As experts say today, thanks to the use of modern LMS in combat modules with good software and a computer component, the reconnaissance and targeting process has been significantly reduced compared to inhabited towers. It is the fast phase of guidance and the subsequent high-precision target destruction that is one of the advantages of modern DBMS.


Uninhabited AU220M Baikal combat module with 57-mm gun


The disadvantages of such modules are often also attributed to their poor maintainability in the field or in the rear of the army. Indeed, modern systems are very complex both mechanically and electronically. With a high degree of probability, such a module can not be repaired in the field workshop, which will require the sending of either a dismantled module or the entire machine for factory repair. On the other hand, in modern local wars this is no longer as critical as it would be in a large-scale armed conflict since the Second World War. At the same time, uninhabited combat modules save the most valuable resource of any country - human lives. The loss of a trained soldier to the state will potentially result in much greater material losses than the repair of the module. So this has long been no longer a matter of price, but a matter of development and improvement of technology.

Modern remotely controlled combat modules are not a tribute to fashion and not a waste of money. First of all, these are highly efficient and very complex systems that can significantly increase the combat capabilities of motorized rifle units while reducing human losses. Modern wars are getting closer to becoming machine wars. This is evidenced by the constant development of unmanned vehicles and a variety of robotic systems. Progress cannot be stopped, uninhabited combat modules are part of this inexorable progress in military affairs, and far from its most radical part.
85 comments
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  1. +6
    21 October 2019 05: 53
    Those who have forgotten both Chechen wars against combat modules have forgotten the mountains of the corpses of our soldiers. But many could be saved. You can’t rewrite history, but you need to learn to draw conclusions from wars — combat uninhabited modules are needed by the army of military personnel, and not by the army of mediocre officials, in the event of a major conflict, again overwhelming the enemy with mountains of sodatsky bodies.
    1. -3
      21 October 2019 06: 34
      Quote: Thrifty
      forgot mountains of corpses of our soldiers

      Quote: Thrifty
      again overwhelming the enemy with mountains of sodate bodies.

      Can you be more specific? and then this liberal nonsense already tired of listening and reading!
      1. +4
        21 October 2019 14: 16
        Sorry, there were no casualties in the first Chechen one. All the fiction of the press.
        1. +1
          21 October 2019 17: 53
          Quote: Pivot
          Sorry, there were no casualties in the first Chechen one. All the fiction of the press.

          There were. But there was no "filling up with corpses".
          And in the second and even the lion's share of losses did not relate directly to the influence of the enemy. The main danger is the careless handling of weapons and the detonation of their own mines.

          That is, if you want to avoid loss, you need to train, and not look for a prodigy like fashionable combat modules.
          1. +2
            21 October 2019 17: 56
            Tell this to the relatives of the guys from the 131st Maykop.
            1. -3
              21 October 2019 17: 57
              Quote: Pivot
              Tell this to the relatives of the guys from the 131st Maykop.

              And who did they "fill up with corpses" there?
              They decided to scare the Chechens with their power. Scared.
              1. +2
                21 October 2019 18: 01
                They did not decide to scare, they just understood that on the armor to enter the city suicide.
                1. +1
                  21 October 2019 18: 04
                  Quote: Pivot
                  They did not decide to scare

                  It’s scary. All this input of armored vehicles was, by and large, an attempt to scare the Chechens.

                  Quote: Pivot
                  on armor enter the city of suicide.

                  Many military men with real combat experience will tell you that everything is exactly the opposite. And climb into the village without armor is suicide
                  1. +2
                    21 October 2019 21: 46
                    It’s not armored vehicles that enter, but infantry-reinforced units reinforced by tanks, but how they sent Maykop’s was tantamount to suicide.
                    1. -2
                      22 October 2019 08: 25
                      Quote: Pivot
                      but how Maikop were sent

                      So they sent everyone. All entered into Grozny units. But not everyone carried out the order literally.
    2. +4
      21 October 2019 06: 40
      Thank you Sergey Yuferev for a detailed review and conclusions (+)!
      —- “... uninhabited combat modules save the most valuable resource ... human lives. The loss of a trained soldier ... will result in much greater material losses than repairs.
      —-... wars are getting closer and closer .. to machine wars ... the constant development of unmanned vehicles and robot systems ... uninhabited combat modules are part ... ”of the future

      —- I’ll add that the goal of the battle is with the “partners”, be it armored or aviation systems ... up to the trigger fighter - I discovered this, quickly found the necessary information (to) DESTROY FROM THE FIRST SHOT - modern arrangement of Suvorov’s “Eye, speed onslaught! ”
      —- This means that radio engineering detection systems, optimal and high-speed information support with maximum stealth are a necessity.
      —- partners (in particular, Americans) believe that 5+ generation armored vehicles use person in the role of an optional crew member with the AUTO SAPIENS STANDARD! This program Optionally Manned Fighting Vehicle (OMFV) - A Fighting Vehicle with a Man (crew) as an Option .. US Army M2 Bradley obsolete fleet replacement program.
      —- About this today in a detailed article on the topic “Robotize this: American tankers put on electronics. Novelties of armored vehicles at AUSA 2019 ”
      Alexei Tarasov: “In the United States, the exhibition and conference of the US Army Association AUSA-2019 ended ... the event is remarkable .. it was massively presented ... the results of the re-equipment of the armored units of the American army.
      https://iz.ru/933970/aleksei-tarasov/robotizirui-eto-amerikanskie-tankisty-staviat-na-elektroniku
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. 0
      21 October 2019 10: 49
      Quote: Thrifty
      Those who against the combat modules forgot both Chechen wars

      On the contrary, they have not forgotten.
    5. 0
      14 November 2019 12: 02
      Quote: Thrifty
      uninhabited combat modules are needed by the army of military personnel, and not by the army of mediocrity officials, in the event of a major conflict, again overwhelming the enemy with mountains of sodate bodies.

      If we have a local conflict with an underdeveloped state that does not have the ability to produce ATGMs and / or terrorists, then perhaps a module is needed.

      If we have a conflict with an industrially developed state capable of producing the entire line of anti-aircraft equipment, the module unfortunately will not save us. It’s simply because it can’t be repaired in the field workshops. It will be necessary to send it for repair, which will instantly lead to a sharp reduction in BTT at the front and an increase in infantry losses . It is not physically possible to produce the current tanks in volumes of the T-34, industry and economy will not pull (even mobilized). And you will have to rivet something quite simple, maybe even the level of T-34 ....

      This works in the opposite direction as well - those who attacked us will also have to take into account their large BTT losses in the war with us and the inability to quickly return them to service in case of further complication of the design

      I am sorry for the tank crews - but the infantry left without tanks due to the fact that someone will launch 500-1000 tanks with non-repairable modules instead of the 2000-3000 more easily restored is more pitiful - they will put it many times more

      Therefore, we must decide whether we are at war with terrorists / separatists / conditional Gabon and a module is needed here, or it is a war with an industrial state (even at the level of Ukraine) - and then the module is categorically contraindicated.

      Z.Y. it’s scary to choose, who will die more as a result of the decision: tankers or infantry ......
      1. -2
        23 December 2019 17: 34
        Everything is much simpler: there must be two armies. One classic, designed specifically for war with a strong enemy. And the second is the guard, just for minor govnokonfliktov. Two completely parallel line of weapons.
        1. 0
          23 December 2019 18: 59
          Quote: Basarev
          Everything is much simpler: there must be two armies. One classic, designed specifically for war with a strong enemy. And the second is the guard, just for minor govnokonfliktov. Two completely parallel line of weapons.
          -the first one disappears automatically - we won’t pull out wars with a serious opponent even at the level of Poland / Ukraine (they are all the more with us). We won’t be able to rivet the current tanks / planes. There’s no industry enough, even if nuclear weapons aren’t used ...
          That is why ALL sit on the priest exactly - only barking at us on command .... everyone understands that with a lack of strength - a nuclear club may be in the hands ....
          1. -1
            23 December 2019 19: 20
            And this is what distinguishes a truly developed country - it is capable of defeating any real enemy with purely conventional weapons, while suffering quite acceptable losses, and the economy and industry will be pulled out without overstrain. While this is not the case, it is assumed at any cost to live peacefully and cooperate in every possible way with the most powerful country. And, of course, at an accelerated pace to develop the economy and industry.
            1. 0
              23 December 2019 19: 32
              Quote: Basarev
              And this is what distinguishes a truly developed country - it is capable of defeating any real enemy with purely conventional weapons, while suffering quite acceptable losses, and the economy and industry will be pulled out without overstrain.

              - and can you give examples?
              which one of serious countries won without much loss after WWII?
              Yugoslavia / Libya - do not offer ......
              1. 0
                23 December 2019 21: 40
                Very easy - at least remember the Falkland.
                1. 0
                  23 December 2019 22: 05
                  Quote: Basarev
                  Very easy - at least remember the Falkland.
                  one and a half battles in 2,5 months ...
                  "258 people killed (including 3 islanders)
                  2 frigates (HMS Ardent and HMS Antelope)
                  2 destroyers (HMS Sheffield and HMS Coventry [en])
                  1 container ship “Atlantic Conveyor” (Atlantic Conveyor)
                  1 landing ship (Sir Galahad (English))
                  1 landing boat (Foxtrot 4)
                  24 different helicopters
                  10 Sea Harrier and Harrier GR.3 aircraft
                  In addition, 3 destroyers, 2 frigates, 1 landing ship received "serious damage"
                  And this provided that half of the bombs did not explode, and the Exocets were only 5 (FIVE !!!!!)- Why, I, sinner, did not know .... and if there were 50 or 500 recourse ?
                  another 10-15 ships of England, for example, to the bottom? I remember about the joke about grandfather, but your example is also not entirely correct ... it’s more likely to beat the babies ...
  2. +5
    21 October 2019 06: 07
    An uninhabited combat module is only the first step, the second is the installation of sensors and a computer that can automatically detect and identify targets, choose, directs weapons at them and, if the sectors of fire are set, automatically open fire, otherwise the operator needs confirmation to open fire. And to do all this as quickly and accurately as possible.
    This will allow the first to open fire to kill, which is especially important in urban combat.
    1. 0
      21 October 2019 19: 40
      ???? Ento how ???
  3. +4
    21 October 2019 06: 52
    1) the tough relationship between the use of DBMS and the reduction in the crew of a combat vehicle is doubtful;
    2) on the "Terminator" is not a DBM, but a low-profile turret with outboard weapons.
    1. +12
      21 October 2019 07: 09
      I don’t know how in Russia, but in Israel the use of modules did not affect the crew size. Just before the machine gunner was sitting in full view, and now he is under the armor.
      1. +5
        21 October 2019 08: 39
        I agree ! And my intelligent physiognomy was distorted by a grimace of bewilderment and surprise at the announcement of a decrease in the crew! belay Maybe the Author confused the DBM and robotic systems based on armored vehicles? Duc, the second tokas-tokas "emerge"! request
        1. +1
          21 October 2019 10: 38
          Nikolaevich I ... when declaring a crew reduction! Maybe the author confused DBM and robotic systems based on armored vehicles

          Probably wrote by analogy with aviation. When at the end of WWII they began to be used as defensive ones on bombers, several DBMs (upper; lower; tail ...) were controlled by one operator (which is also a navigator))) as the enemy fighter attacked from one direction rather than from all at once. Previously, an arrow was assigned to each point.
          With ground technology, contraction can be with cars with several independent modules, when the driver can turn on when firing from a standstill)) do not forget that on the first T44 / 54 there were rigidly installed machine guns from which the mechanic drive fired))). And also in the "network-centric" future - a remote operator.
          1. 0
            21 October 2019 11: 38
            Quote: anzar
            When at the end of WWII they began to be used as defensive ones on bombers, several DBMs (upper; lower; tail ...) were controlled by one operator (which is also a navigator)))

            Learn the materiel. On the B-29 with the most advanced fire control system in a crew of 11 people, 4 shooters. The meaning of remotely controlled turrets in aviation of those years is to reduce their dimensions and aerodynamic drag, because the tower no longer needs to be pushed as a whole person, but only the trunks.
            1. +1
              21 October 2019 20: 31
              On the B-29 with the most advanced fire control system in a crew of 11 4 arrows

              ...on 5 points))) But the light did not converge on the B-29. For example (we learn materiel)) Me-210 (410) He has 2 dist, points (left and right) and only 2 crew members (pilot and navigator / operator). Do you think the pilot controls the left point or the right? winked

              The meaning of remotely controlled turrets in aviation of those years is to reduce their dimensions and aerodynamic drag ...

              Eto too, but not only! And then, at the same time, a blister appears from the turret for that very head ...)) There is a LESS NUMBER of shooters, and different positions of the turrets and pressurized cabins, and radar sights ...
              1. -1
                21 October 2019 21: 09
                Quote: anzar
                ... by 5 points))) But the light did not converge on the B-29. For example (we learn materiel)) Me-210 (410) He has 2 dist, points (left and right) and only 2 crew members (pilot and navigator / operator). Do you think the pilot controls the left point or the right?

                Me-210 is an incorrect example, because on airplanes of this class, and so usually there were 2 people - a pilot and a gunner-radio operator (not a navigator-operator!). Take his predecessor Bf-110.
                Bombers, even post-war ones, have always had separate gunners. At least for the tail unit. Precisely because in battle it is necessary to observe the entire space around the aircraft, which one person cannot cope with (and it is simply not visible from just one place without the technology of the "glass cockpit"), and the navigator-bombardier has something to do. On the same B-29, by the way, the control of the turrets was switched so that any shooter could focus the fire of all points on one target.
                1. +1
                  21 October 2019 22: 50
                  Me-210 is an incorrect example, because on airplanes of this class ...

                  Why? Who talked about classes? It was (and with the author) about reducing the required crew (or increasing its capabilities)
                  Precisely because in battle it is necessary to observe the entire space around the aircraft, which one person can’t handle ...

                  I said "one (maybe) controls several", not "a single (arrow) controls ALL points"
                  ... and the navigator-scorer already has something to do

                  learn materiel))) At the same B-29, it was he who controlled the TWO points of the nose (upper and lower)
                  1. 0
                    22 October 2019 17: 40
                    Well, let's compare planes with and without remotely controlled shooting points:
                    So, Bf-110: one top point (1-2 barrels), manually controlled by a radio operator gunner. Shelling up and down and sideways, down sideways in a very limited sector.
                    Me-210: two side remote-controlled points with one barrel. Managed by one shooter, hover together. Side firing has improved (due to location) and, theoretically, in the entire lower hemisphere - but only the shooter from the cockpit down does not see a damn thing.
                    B-17G: 3 points in the nose (2 machine guns in the loopholes + Bendix lower nose turret with remote control), which are served by the navigator, the top turret (1 shooter), the lower turret (1 shooter), the upper back point (1 shooter) , side points (1-2 arrows), tail point (1 arrow)
                    B-29: 2 upper turrets, 2 lower, tail point. the front is controlled by the navigator, the rear, the side arrows (each on its own side), the tail - a separate shooter.
                    He-177: 1 nasal point, 2 lower in the gondola under the nose, 2 upper turrets (front with remote control, rear normal), tail point. Moreover, with a crew of 6 people, the turrets and the tail point were each serviced by a separate shooter, and the remaining points, obviously, by the navigator-scorer.
                    I can’t remember more than WWII aircraft with remote turrets. As you can see, the ratio between the number of firing points and the number of shooters does not really depend on whether they are remotely controlled or manually.
          2. +1
            21 October 2019 12: 02
            Quote: anzar
            With ground-based technology, the reduction can be with machines with several independent modules,

            T-35, T-28 in a "new way"? "Back to the Future" ? A modern uninhabited BM is not a cheap "pleasure" and, before installing more than 1 BM, they will "think 10 times" ... is it worth it? Occasionally, sometimes they put 2 turrets on an armored personnel carrier ... But exactly what: "occasionally, sometimes" ... and in this case, you can "attract" someone from the landing. I can assume the presence of "more than 1 BM", but on robotic complexes of the "near future" ... PS By the way, I once read about remotely controlled "modules" on some (about all types, I do not claim ...) Soviet bombers, transport aircraft ... the "flyers" "complained" of them about the roll controllability of the "modules" and the corresponding efficiency ... "The people" assessed them rather as "scarecrows"; than a really effective weapon ...
            1. 0
              21 October 2019 15: 16
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              T-35, T-28 in a "new way"? "Back to the Future" ?

              Development proceeds in a spiral (earlier spiral and now spiral laughing ).
              What was impossible with the technology of the 30s. of the last century (the idea of ​​round-fire), it is quite feasible now with the advent of the DBMS with stabilized weapons and observation devices - the maneuver of the machine in the interests of the use of primary weapons no longer interferes with the use of auxiliary weapons. Accordingly, it ceases to be a useless cargo, on the contrary, it can be useful, for example, in urban battles, where a machine can be attacked simultaneously from different sides.
            2. 0
              21 October 2019 21: 10
              T-35, T-28 in a "new way"?

              Rather, the Grotte tank wink T-14 Armata)) - it has two independent modules - main. a turret with a cannon and a "turret" with (for now) a 12,7mm machine gun. These are also used on other (old) tanks.
        2. -1
          21 October 2019 10: 45
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          I agree ! And my intelligent physiognomy was distorted by a grimace of bewilderment and surprise at the announcement of a decrease in the crew!

          Initially, projects to install 57 mm guns on the BTT required a loader.
    2. 0
      21 October 2019 10: 50
      Quote: infantryman2020
      the tough relationship between the use of DBMS and the reduction in the number of crew of a combat vehicle is doubtful

      There is no hard. But for some calibers this is true.
      1. 0
        22 October 2019 07: 21
        Quote: Spade
        Quote: infantryman2020
        the tough relationship between the use of DBMS and the reduction in the number of crew of a combat vehicle is doubtful

        There is no hard. But for some calibers this is true.


        Is this an objection to my phrase? I expressed myself very clearly.
  4. +4
    21 October 2019 07: 40
    The main advantage of the DBMS is the ability to increase the protection of the crew. Full - at the moment - implementation only in Armata. Why - the platform was created "from scratch" under the DBM. For all the rest, the implementation of the DBMS is a kind of tribute to fashion, which is why and discussions about expediency.
    1. +1
      21 October 2019 09: 00
      Quote: dzvero
      The main plus of the DBM is the ability to increase crew security.

      Quote: dzvero
      For everyone else, the implementation of DBM is a kind of tribute to fashion, and therefore to discussions about expediency.

      The creation of a DBM, in addition to taking the crew out of the risk zone, is also the initial stage of creating conditions for network-centric actions, when the DBM group can be managed from a single database control center using RUK-ROCK elements.
    2. +3
      21 October 2019 09: 12
      The battle module, essentially a tower, is the most armored part of an armored car. Inhabited from uninhabited differs only in size. But survivability affects the bone. For losses too. The article is drawn to behind the scenes.
      1. +5
        21 October 2019 10: 13
        Smaller module sizes - less reserved volume - less machine weight. The mass reserve can be used to increase the security of the habitable compartment while maintaining the overall dimensions. The survivability of the machine may not be reflected, but the survival of the crew will only have a positive effect. I can’t give you the numbers, but I have a feeling that quality crew training costs about a third of the cost of the tank.
        1. +3
          21 October 2019 17: 15
          Read, read comments ... well, at least someone pointed to the most important thing in the DBM is the layout gain... You can reduce the size of the tower to the size required only for weapons, sights, equipment and ammunition. There is no need for "air" in the tower for the gunner - and this is from 40-60% of the volume. It means that BM can be made easier, or thicker to book.
          The reserve of the mass previously used for booking the "air" for the gunner can be used for additional booking of the hull or specifically the "capsule" with the gunner.
          Well, the prospect of semi-robotized combat vehicles.
      2. +3
        21 October 2019 10: 57
        Quote: garri-lin
        Inhabited from uninhabited differs only in size.

        Security. Uninhabited people save a lot on it.

        In general, vehicles equipped with weapons in manned towers are more efficient. Here is the possibility of duplicating mechanics / electricians manually, and the best weapon protection, and the best situational awareness, and the ability to replenish BC ...

        Quote: garri-lin
        But survivability affects the bone.

        Directly affects. The crew and the landing are protected from detonation / detonation of BC. But this advantage is easily eliminated by not very smart actions in the form of placement in the reserved volume of additional. BC, as well as BK motorized rifle squad.
      3. +3
        21 October 2019 13: 04
        Quote: garri-lin
        Fight module, essentially a tower, the most armored part of an armored car

        Nonsense. Now, ideologically, this is not a tower, but a weapon module. And due to the lack of crew, modern DBMS on the contrary are weakly armored, and many are generally unarmored. Optics, boxes, projectiles / ammunition feed tapes sticking out from all sides, the darkness is shorter.
        To the first close gap or sighting line.

        The "Cheburashka" from UVZ is especially amusing, and its apologists, who think that since there is a tank chassis, the tower is armored.
        Yeah, schach. There it is good if bulletproof from 7,62, and on the sides 5,45.

  5. +5
    21 October 2019 07: 56
    Are there really opponents of uninhabited combat modules? I mean, the need for NBM is not a theorem, but an axiom ...
    1. bar
      +1
      21 October 2019 08: 56
      Are there really opponents of uninhabited combat modules?

      And then. The finance minister is probably against it.
    2. +6
      21 October 2019 10: 48
      Quote: Pike
      Are there really opponents of uninhabited combat modules?

      There are, and a great many. And practitioners, not theorists.
      The point is reliability.
      Uninhabited module requires it at the highest level. For no mechanical understudies and other things. If, for example, the electric trigger does not work, the machine is not operational. And in the old tower you can still get a little bother ...
      1. +2
        21 October 2019 18: 16
        You are absolutely right! RELIABILITY!!! Which at the moment does not yet meet the requirements. Maybe someday, on a full robot tank (Is it needed at all?). I suspect that the bulk of the local experts base their knowledge on the WoT game and on fantasy artwork. Only a human commander is able to assess the situation around, control the actions of the crew, control the operation of weapons and tank systems, eliminate malfunctions that occur during firing, command the commanders of other vehicles of his unit, etc. .... Believe me, we need eyes and brains, electronics, even the best can’t do it here. Well, maybe someday ...
  6. bar
    -3
    21 October 2019 08: 22
    At the same time, uninhabited combat modules save the most valuable resource of any country - human lives.

    Then it will be from whom to recover damage for damaged equipment.
    1. 0
      21 October 2019 19: 50
      I am a civilian, but I suppose that a shot at the claw barrel is fired into the building, and not at the tower, the question is, where is the module operator sitting?
      1. +2
        22 October 2019 00: 01
        Quote: tarakan
        I am a civilian, but I suppose that a shot at the claw barrel is fired into the building, and not at the tower, the question is, where is the module operator sitting?

        you are mistaken, testing was carried out and statistics were kept, and so from 80 to 90% arrives just in the tower, at the tank.
  7. +3
    21 October 2019 08: 54
    Quote: Thrifty
    Those who have forgotten both Chechen wars against combat modules have forgotten the mountains of the corpses of our soldiers. But many could be saved. You can’t rewrite history, but you need to learn to draw conclusions from wars — combat uninhabited modules are needed by the army of military personnel, and not by the army of mediocre officials, in the event of a major conflict, again overwhelming the enemy with mountains of sodatsky bodies.

    Also I think. +
  8. +5
    21 October 2019 08: 55
    Quote: bar
    At the same time, uninhabited combat modules save the most valuable resource of any country - human lives.

    Then it will be from whom to recover damage for damaged equipment.

    From the operator, with whom else. It would be a desire)
    1. 0
      22 October 2019 17: 50
      Quote: IAI-Azerbaijan
      From the operator, with whom else. It would be a desire)

      Yes, there, I think, from all the cameramen’s relatives, I’ll have to go to the third knee if we compare the price of the module and the average salary in Zamkadye.
  9. +7
    21 October 2019 10: 56
    The main value of the BMP modules is not in the optoelectronic equipment (which is already standing on the inhabited towers), but in the release of the internal volume of the machine from the ammunition, which allows you to place people in the 10 airborne compartment, and in special anti-mine seats with the comfort that ensures a long landing in car.
    1. +1
      21 October 2019 22: 26
      Quote: Operator
      The main value of the BMP modules is not in the optoelectronic equipment (which already stands on inhabited towers), but in the release of the internal volume of the machine

      A rare case when I completely agree with you. :) The external module is smaller in size, and you can place it anywhere, even in front, at least in the back, at least on the side. This is the main benefit.
  10. +5
    21 October 2019 11: 04
    Quote: Spade
    And in the old tower you can still flabber

    Type - if the engine stalled, then you can push the BMP manually laughing
    1. 0
      14 November 2019 21: 48
      Quote: Operator
      Quote: Spade
      And in the old tower you can still flabber

      Type - if the engine stalled, then you can push the BMP manually laughing
      -type if the sights are dead - to point the trunk. And this is not sarcasm ....
      At our place, the OPTAD commander practiced this among his officers
  11. +4
    21 October 2019 11: 13
    Indeed, modern systems are very complex both mechanically and electronically. With a high degree of probability it’s just not possible to fix such a module in the field workshop, which will require sending either a dismantled module,


    Typically, a module is created with certain capabilities for replacing components and components — to quickly change optics without removing the module from the equipment, possibly in a few minutes / tens of minutes.
    It all depends on the degree of damage.
    The main thing is that the damage would not affect the guide / centering elements in the power frame of the module, ensuring the alignment of the optics and weapons, otherwise repairs will be required in the factory.
    1. 0
      14 November 2019 21: 50
      Quote: DimerVladimer
      It all depends on the degree of damage.
      -There are tins, not armor ... there if something arrives at the level of 100 mm - you can immediately drop this piece of equipment, the module can no longer be restored ....
  12. 0
    21 October 2019 12: 27
    And how will a DBMS mounted on a tank or something else increase the chances of the crew to survive in battle? If it arrives, it arrives ... The main advantage should be to save space inside the car. Although Armata with DBM has become larger
    1. -1
      21 October 2019 14: 56
      And how will a DBMS mounted on a tank or something else increase the chances of the crew to survive in battle?
      The commander will no longer have to climb waist-deep from the hatch, turning into an ideal target in order to shoot from an "anti-aircraft" machine gun.
      1. -1
        21 October 2019 17: 55
        Quote: Corn
        The commander will no longer have to get out of his belt waist-high from the hatch

        Have to get out completely, and not just waist-high?
        Indeed, the DUMB does not solve the problem of insufficient situational awareness.
        1. 0
          21 October 2019 18: 11
          The problems of situational awareness have long been resolved with the help of stabilized optical and infrared high-resolution cameras and monitors to match these cameras.
          It’s not for you to peer into triplexes.
          1. 0
            21 October 2019 18: 18
            Quote: Corn
            The problems of situational awareness have long been resolved with the help of stabilized optical and infrared high-resolution cameras and monitors to match these cameras.

            Flat picture.
            And "leaning out to the waist from the hatch" has, firstly, a "stereo picture", and secondly, a wider field of view.
            Personally, I never liked to work from a car, it is much more convenient from a remote point, even if the car has the best optics.

            Plus, often "leaning out to the waist in the hatch" has not only a picture, but also a sound.
            1. +1
              21 October 2019 18: 53
              Flat picture.
              And "leaning out to the waist from the hatch" has, firstly, a "stereo picture"
              stereoscopy of human vision works effectively only at close range, the basis of spatial orientation is still the same “flat picture”
              Personally, I never liked to work from a car, it is much more convenient from a remote point, even if the car has the best optics.
              I’m directly wondering, in what domestic car is “the best optics”? Judging by the avatar, is it about the PRP or its landing counterpart?
              "leaning out to the waist in the hatch" has not only a picture, but also a sound.
              on roaring armored vehicles, and even in headphones / headset? Are you seriously?
              Better like this:
              1. 0
                22 October 2019 08: 53
                Quote: Corn
                stereoscopy of human vision works effectively only at close range, the basis of spatial orientation is still the same “flat picture”

                From my own experience, this is absolutely not the case.

                Quote: Corn
                I’m directly wondering, in what domestic car is “the best optics”? Judging by the avatar, is it about the PRP or its landing counterpart?

                The optics of the 14th and 18th vehicles are definitely better than the BI-8. However, shooting, that is, zeroing in and adjusting fire is much more convenient from a "takeaway" with binoculars.

                Quote: Corn
                on roaring armored vehicles

                She doesn't always roar. And the sounds are different.
            2. +2
              21 October 2019 22: 24
              Quote: Spade
              Flat picture.
              And "leaning out to the waist from the hatch" has, firstly, a "stereo picture", ...

              High-quality stereo images require optics with spaced eyepieces.


              The stereo tube is ordinary, artillery. :) And for especially delicate connoisseurs there were also rangefinders. There the stereo effect is very visual at all.
        2. 0
          21 October 2019 18: 20
          Even as you have to not only climb out of the tower, but also run around the tank! Anything can happen. I’m very interested, and what kind of work can only two people in a carriage do? Replace the truck, stretch the gun ??
          1. +2
            21 October 2019 19: 14
            Replace the truck, stretch the gun ??
            at the exit in the field, the truck cannot be replaced without special equipment anyway, and in the fleet it will serve the maintenance as it should, something like this has always worked in aviation, it is not necessary to carry all soldiers under bullets.
            1. 0
              21 October 2019 19: 34
              And on the battlefield? Yes, and what special equipment to perform such work?
              1. +1
                21 October 2019 19: 41
                It is customary to leave the immobilized equipment on the battlefield (depending on the situation), and there are (should be) rear armored personnel carriers with appropriate equipment to return the machine to the system, or to evacuate it.
                1. +4
                  21 October 2019 20: 18
                  You are probably not a tanker. I will explain. In TP there are only 3 ARVs in three TBs plus two ARVs in the repair company. In total, only 4 repair and recovery teams will take part in the battle. 1 AREM will work for the SPPM regiment. And this is for 94 tanks, not counting the forces given to the tank battalions. And the REGs will primarily be engaged in the evacuation of rocket launchers, points and control vehicles. So, the crews will do everything themselves. Regrettably. I'm not talking about jams and other crap. The last 7 years of my service as an ZKV tank regiment. Solving these issues was my concern.
                  1. +1
                    21 October 2019 20: 50
                    Won't 4 ARVs be able to serve 94 tanks if necessary? According to the repair machine for the tank company, there will still be one in reserve.
                    Regi will primarily be engaged in the evacuation of rocket launchers, points and control vehicles.
                    this is the misuse of technology. If the units do not have enough support machines, then it is necessary to deal with this problem, and not to shift it from a sick mind to a healthy one.
                    So, the crews will do everything themselves.
                    I doubt that at the exit it is possible to do this with the help of only one crew of 2, 3 or 4 fighters, and even without repair kits on each machine.
                    1. +3
                      21 October 2019 20: 58
                      “Can't 4 armored vehicles be able to service 94 tanks if necessary?” For a repair vehicle for a tank company, one more will remain in reserve. ”Maybe I didn't understand something. There are 9 tank companies in TP. 1 BREM for a tank battalion, there are three of them. What does not target use of technology mean !? These are the requirements of the Combat Manuals and the Evacuation Manual. Excuse me for asking, at what level did you have a connection with the army? I don't even know how to explain common truths for a military man. This is not Heaven, but Earth, here its own laws. No offense, dear.
                      1. 0
                        21 October 2019 21: 33
                        Maybe I didn’t understand something. In TP 9 tank companies
                        Of course you are right, I apologize for the freedom of inattention.
                        1 ARV per tank battalion
                        so it is necessary to tackle the survival of existing equipment in existing units, and not produce new brigades and divisions.
                        What does it mean not the intended use of technology !?
                        this means that there are RMOs for moving tangible property, and signalmen are involved in control points.
                        These are the requirements of the Combat Regulations and the Evacuation Manual.
                        The charters quickly become obsolete due to scientific and technological progress, while in the middle of the last century horse traction was not uncommon, but now insufficient motorization of units is simply unacceptable and unthinkable.
                        Sorry for the question, and at what level did you have a connection with the army?
                        at senior sergeant level
                        common truths for a military man.
                        you might be surprised, but not for all military “statutes and instructions” are common truths
      2. 0
        21 October 2019 20: 46
        If this DBM frees up space inside the car, then there is sense, otherwise it’s just a toy ... It’s also expensive
  13. +2
    21 October 2019 13: 12
    BMPT "Terminator" were tested in combat conditions in Syria. Therefore, do not even doubt the competence of designers

    Why is this?
    announced any super successes of the terminator? no.
    So why is their effectiveness beyond doubt?
    In my opinion, uninhabited modules are inextricably linked with the serious development of surveillance systems
    for example, Israeli virtual reality systems that provide a wide view inside the cockpit. And to achieve acceptable sensitivity against the disguised enemy is still a long way off.
    It is necessary to further develop surveillance systems, maybe even include directional microphones, so that the systems begin to compete on equal terms with human capabilities.
    Without the completion of these works, as well as obtaining practical results of the rearrangement in order to increase the reliability and combat stability of uninhabited modules,
    it seems too presumptuous to say “no doubt”.
    1. +1
      21 October 2019 18: 24
      I think that Teminator is a little thing for sale to someone, for yourself it is not necessary in combined arms combat, well, maybe during defense, if buried deep. His weapons are practically not protected.
      1. 0
        22 October 2019 11: 15
        I think that cars of this class are needed, but they need serious processing and attempts
        in the form that so far turns out, I think they are ineffective.
        We need a functional qualitative leap, but it is not there yet.
        this machine is NOT capable of chasing infantry, only make it temporarily retreat.
  14. +1
    21 October 2019 14: 49
    The same Russian BMPT “Terminator” were tested in combat conditions in Syria. Therefore, one should not even doubt the competence of designers who are constantly working on new remotely controlled combat modules.
    The best characterization of the whole article in two sentences. "Who knows, he will understand" (c)
  15. 0
    21 October 2019 17: 50
    All against banana countries and aircraft carriers, and remotely controlled modules ...
    not clashes of equivalent strength in armies. Often fighting is against terrorist or lightly armed separatist formations.

    The combat effectiveness of such modules Israelis appreciated

    chance light fire of small arms and fragments of shells and mines of complex optical instruments and other important equipment

    sophisticated optics, radars, sensors, like any other equipment, can be disabled concentrated fire or direct hits
  16. 0
    21 October 2019 20: 08
    In the sky, unmanned aerial vehicles, on land without crew tanks, on and under water without crew ships and self-propelled torpedoes .... The future? Fantasy? Reality! hi
  17. -2
    21 October 2019 22: 34
    The most interesting thing in the DBM is what the crew will do when using EM weapons, which will cut down all the electronics. And soon the Papuans will be able to collect such a thing. It has developed greatly in recent years.
  18. 0
    24 October 2019 13: 57
    It's cool, the other day I read about it on Yandexzen that its capabilities are ahead of the best world developments, the author described its capabilities interestingly, here is the link: https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5d87051b8f011100b7d4a4aa/noveishii-rossiiskii-tank- s-neobitaemoi-bashnei-5da7615179c26e61486b8740
  19. 0
    7 December 2019 18: 53
    The question that ALWAYS bothers me. And in conditions of massive use of electronic warfare, electromagnetic radiation, will this technique work?