Military Review

The image of the Russian CJSC "Malva"

115
An image of a new combat system created by Russian developers and manufacturers has appeared on the Internet. The design of self-propelled artillery guns can somewhat annoy the Belarusian authorities, as it is based on a domestic product, and not MZKT platforms.




We are talking about CJSC 2С43 "Malva", created in the framework of the R & D "Sketch". It uses an 152-mm gun as a fire component. The BAZ-6010-027 product manufactured at the facilities of the domestic enterprise, the Bryansk Automobile Plant, acts as a chassis. Allegedly, the wheeled platform arrived at the disposal of the Central Research Institute "Petrel", located in Nizhny Novgorod, in August 2019 year.

At the facilities of this research institute they must mount the entire combat system on the delivered chassis. Accordingly, in the near future we should expect the start of testing a new product in the factory.

Among experts, there is no unequivocal opinion on how much the Russian army needs of CAO, made on a wheeled platform. However, it should be noted that in the world market analogues of these products are in enviable demand. At the same time, the Russian Federation had virtually nothing to offer customers. It is possible that after the completion of OCD, such an opportunity will appear.

As part of the development work "Sketch" created several options for weapons. In particular, we are talking about a self-propelled mortar "Drok", included with the same "Mallow" in the "flower" composition of promising domestic developments.
Photos used:
Russian Arms Forum
115 comments
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  1. Tatar 174
    Tatar 174 17 October 2019 17: 40
    +13
    A large flower, not that my Cornflower once))) Well, where is the performance characteristics ??
    1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
      SERGEY SERGEEVICS 17 October 2019 17: 49
      +3
      Well, where is the performance characteristics ??
      Her first photo only appeared, before TTX it is still early, while only this is available.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. tol100v
        tol100v 17 October 2019 18: 33
        +10
        Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
        Her first photo only appeared, before TTX it is still early, while only this is available.

        Amazing times have come! The product is only in the project, and about it there is a chime for the whole world! You can understand in two ways: either advertising, or betrayal! Or are the concepts of State and Military secrets a thing of the past ?!
        1. Alexga
          Alexga 17 October 2019 19: 02
          +14
          I think advertising. Sample prepare for export. Usually, their new products are not advertised.
          1. Every
            Every 18 October 2019 12: 31
            +1
            Quote: AlexGa
            I think advertising. Sample prepare for export. Usually, their new products are not advertised.

            Likely.
            For our conditions, the wheelbase is not very suitable. Try to drive in the fall through a muddy field, then through a ravine and into a forest belt.
            Apparently in the world market there is a demand for such installations.
        2. venik
          venik 17 October 2019 20: 43
          +14
          Quote: Tol100v
          Amazing times have come! The product is only in the project, and about it there is a chime for the whole world! You can understand in two ways: either advertising, or betrayal! Or are the concepts of State and Military secrets a thing of the past ?!

          ========
          Awful long ago, back in the late 70s (or at the very beginning of the 80s? I don’t remember) at the training camp, we were shown an image of the F-16 (it had just finished testing and was called YF-16) from an American magazine. Moreover, in the image it was "without casing" - a diagram of the location of internal components and assemblies! Then (the boy was still) asked the officer - "This is" a secret! Why are they publishing it? "
          He looked at me with a grin:
          “Why do you think the image is true?”
          - Really "misinformation" ???
          - Why not? Yes and NOT THIS is the main thing! Here, after all, there is no MAIN information - FROM WHAT it is made of, at what frequencies and how the equipment works, etc. etc......
          Well, somewhere like that!
          So "don't panic, Major Kardash!" (The most important thing is all the same to you - they WILL NOT SHOW !!! soldier
        3. Chaldon48
          Chaldon48 18 October 2019 02: 52
          0
          All the secrets have probably gone into the "Nau-How" area, various technological subtleties. For example, in China, they still have not been able to establish the production of turbine blades of the same quality as in Russia.
        4. Vlad.by
          Vlad.by 18 October 2019 11: 41
          +1
          Amazing times have come! The product is only in the project, and about it there is a chime for the whole world! You can understand in two ways: either advertising, or betrayal! Or are the concepts of State and Military secrets a thing of the past ?!


          By the way, a very competent decision is to start an advertising campaign at the same time as the product design begins.
          You look at the beginning of production and the line of people who want to line up.
      3. kapitan92
        kapitan92 17 October 2019 22: 32
        +2
        Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
        Well, where is the performance characteristics ??
        Her first photo only appeared, before TTX it is still early, while only this is available.

        And what we saw is new ???
        France

        The CAESAR 155 mm / 52 artillery system of caliber was originally developed by Nexter Systems at its own expense, but “the end justified the funds” and this ACS was purchased by four countries.

        SAU of the French Army CAESAR 155 mm / 52 caliber has a protected cabin
        Similar systems are in service with Germany, Israel, Italy, and even Iran has already made a prototype and put it to the test.

        The first instance of Iran’s 155 mm / 39 caliber self-propelled guns is based on a 6 × 6 cabless chassis with an unprotected cab
        1. avg avg
          avg avg 18 October 2019 02: 56
          +1
          Yes, don’t talk! Some kind of disgrace, the platform is an ordinary car, without an engine on new physical principles, at least they stuck some kind of gravityap. Danelia still in some 80s shaggy used it on the set of the film. He himself admitted that he took from the military.
          The gun, again, is ordinary. And they could add an electromagnetic one with a portable atomic reactor.
          Disgrace, in a word!
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Yrec
      Yrec 17 October 2019 17: 50
      +5
      Most likely, a weapon from the "Coalition" with non-contact ignition of a metal charge. Maybe even with a variable charge.
      1. Agronom
        Agronom 17 October 2019 18: 07
        -7
        Infa slipped that the US artillery mount created a range of almost 1500 km .. Maybe this is something similar? I'm not special, but it looks like it. hi
        1. The popuas
          The popuas 17 October 2019 19: 14
          +5
          Why then short-range missiles !? recourse
        2. APASUS
          APASUS 17 October 2019 19: 22
          +7
          Quote: Agronom
          Infa slipped that the US artillery mount created a range of almost 1500 km .. Maybe this is something similar? I'm not special, but it seems like it

          Is this something?
          The US military ordered a cannon capable of hitting ground targets at a distance of 1000 nautical miles, or 1850 km, according to Popular Mechanics. It is not known exactly which technology will form the basis of such a monster.

          but the most interesting part in this material is this line:
          Colonel John Rafferty described it as “innovative” and so advanced that the Pentagon is not yet sure that it can afford it.
          1. avdkrd
            avdkrd 17 October 2019 19: 30
            +9
            Quote: APASUS
            Colonel John Rafferty described it as “innovative” and so advanced that the Pentagon is not yet sure that it can afford it.

            Come on, passing off hard drugs as an innovation is already too much.
        3. stalki
          stalki 17 October 2019 20: 11
          +1
          Infa slipped that the US gun mount created a range of almost 1500 km ..
          So far they only think about it, but have not created it.
          1. Siberian54
            Siberian54 18 October 2019 17: 09
            0
            the Americans tested the gausovka .. while the guide is enough for 3-8 shots. Moreover, not one to the grandfather’s village is the first one
        4. ROSS_51
          ROSS_51 17 October 2019 21: 10
          +1
          Already have created? The next line will be-adopted?
      2. Beby
        Beby 17 October 2019 18: 09
        +4
        But in the above image, the automatic loader is not at all visible, for example, from the same "Coalition" ... and this can have a very negative effect on the performance characteristics.
      3. Alexga
        Alexga 17 October 2019 19: 03
        +3
        I think this is Hyacinth on a new move
    3. Piramidon
      Piramidon 17 October 2019 18: 13
      -1
      Quote: Tatar 174
      Well, where is the performance characteristics ??

      You also need to give the keys to the apartment? It’s just being created, and you are already knocking your fists on the clave and trampling your legs in front of the sofa - and give me the technical specifications, technologies and drawings. Some users of VO have completely lost their impudence. fool
    4. Green Chukotka
      Green Chukotka 17 October 2019 18: 26
      0
      This is a sketch. what TTX ?!
    5. Ros 56
      Ros 56 17 October 2019 19: 49
      -1
      Ishsho is not stricken, but will be soon. lol
    6. YOUR
      YOUR 18 October 2019 03: 57
      +1
      See TTX Coalition - CB. The gun is the same, only put on a wheelbase.
  2. neri73-r
    neri73-r 17 October 2019 17: 49
    +3
    Interestingly, a tool from the Msta or the Coalition, or maybe another development.
  3. yfast
    yfast 17 October 2019 17: 56
    +4
    Domestic semblance of an archer?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 17 October 2019 18: 52
      +5
      Domestic likeness of "Caesar"
      1. L-39NG
        L-39NG 17 October 2019 19: 45
        +2
        In the picture there is a barrel with an ejector. With this design, self-propelled guns do not need an ejector, it will be possible to use the increased gas pressure in the barrel to increase the firing range. With regards to customers who want to eat. Of course, the price. The French - CAESAR, the Swedes - Archer, the Serbs - Nora B-52, the Krains do not sleep, the Israelis with their ATMOS 2000, etc. In this market, who is late, it is difficult to sell his goods then, and the main argument is not always cheap.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 17 October 2019 19: 47
          +4
          Quote: L-39NG
          In the picture there is a barrel with an ejector.

          The figure shows the trunk without breech 8)))
      2. garri-lin
        garri-lin 17 October 2019 19: 46
        0
        Do you mean that manual charging will be?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 17 October 2019 19: 56
          +4
          Without a clue.
          In patents, you can dig up a "motorized" Hyacinth of a similar layout (RU 2 355 977 C1)


          There is mechanized loading.
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 17 October 2019 21: 47
            +1
            Well, Caesar turns out to be mechanized too. And the archer has a gun. And with Eve. Or I misunderstand something. Why did you specify what will happen, most likely an analogue of Caesar?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 18 October 2019 09: 22
              +1
              Quote: garri-lin
              Why did you specify what will happen, most likely an analogue of Caesar?

              Because otherwise they would simply put the Coalition tower on the car base. But Vilimo decided to save money.
              By the way, the "Caesar" has mechanized delivery. Manual loading.
              1. garri-lin
                garri-lin 18 October 2019 09: 26
                0
                Now I understand. Thanks for the clarification.
  4. Polite Moose
    Polite Moose 17 October 2019 18: 23
    +2
    Specialists! Enlighten. Is the design from the drawing viable? And, most importantly, do we need such an artillery system? For, in my inexperienced view, the presented ACS does not have the ability to fire direct fire, its mobility is limited due to the need to unfold-fold the base plate, the horizontal guidance angles are limited. Why are the existing self-propelled guns of the same caliber "Msta" and "Coalition" not satisfied with the military? Are they going to take care of asphalt in cities?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 17 October 2019 18: 49
      +6
      Quote: Polite Elk
      Specialists! Enlighten. Is the design viable from the drawing?

      No.
      A gun without a breech can’t shoot. laughing

      Quote: Polite Elk
      Why are the existing self-propelled guns of the same caliber Msta and Coalition not satisfied with the military?

      The problem is mobility. Operational.
      1. loki565
        loki565 17 October 2019 19: 35
        +5
        If you need a wheeled self-propelled gun, but why didn’t they arrange the BEACH? on wheels and shoots out how sternly)))
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 17 October 2019 19: 38
          +3
          Quote: loki565
          and why did they not arrange the BEACH?

          This is not a self-propelled gun.
          1. loki565
            loki565 17 October 2019 19: 44
            0
            Yes? strange, on wikipedia it is written that self-propelled guns, though the caliber is smaller, 130mm.
            Description
            The advantages of a self-propelled artillery installation (ACS) include a large caliber, versatility in targets and ammunition used, the ability to work in any mode, up to fully automatic, high rate of fire (up to 12 rounds per minute).
            The computer system corrects the target designation of self-propelled guns in automatic mode.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 17 October 2019 19: 59
              +2
              Quote: loki565
              Yes? strange, on wikipedia it is written that self-propelled guns, though the caliber is smaller, 130mm.

              They write a lot on the fence.
              "Coast" art. installation of coastal defense with all that it implies: unitary loading, anti-aircraft shells, very redundant capabilities for target detection
              That is, using it for land purposes is impractical.
              1. loki565
                loki565 17 October 2019 20: 06
                +3
                And the tower doesn’t fit in from the AGREEMENT? although there is no turret in the picture, most likely there will be a type of this CAESAR 155 mm - 8x8 self-propelled guns chassis Renault Sherpa
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 17 October 2019 20: 13
                  +5
                  Quote: loki565
                  And the tower doesn’t fit in from the AGREEMENT?

                  What's the point?
                  As far as I understand, they decided to create a gun that was close in price to a pair of towed guns + a full-time tractor.
                  Indeed, an analogue of the relatively cheap "Caesar", albeit with its own bunch of shortcomings.

                  By the way, in this form factor, the leaders are not French, the Slovaks are the best example
                  ACS "Eva" with fully automatic loading (like the "Coalition" or "Archer"
                  1. bk0010
                    bk0010 17 October 2019 21: 37
                    0
                    What would a really towed gun not do to them? If necessary, you can replace the tractor and carry it separately, and if you need to quickly dump, do not disconnect the tractor before firing. And the tractor will be easier to pick up: it will not have to withstand returns. The only negative is that the power for the instruments of the gun will also have to be autonomous.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 18 October 2019 09: 19
                      +1
                      Quote: bk0010
                      The only negative is that the power for the instruments of the gun will also have to be autonomous.

                      The main disadvantage of towing in a serious limitation of the speed of the tractor when towing, especially on dirt roads and off-road.

                      And "before shooting, do not disconnect the tractor" is impossible. So you have to equip the axle boxes. a weapon with a self-propelled system and assistance mechanisms during deployment in combat / folding in marching. Yes, and "choose easier" will not work - the problem is in the load on the hitch
                      As a result, all this will result in a very high price of the towed gun + standard tractor system, comparable to the cost of a "motorized" gun
                      1. bk0010
                        bk0010 18 October 2019 21: 42
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        And "before shooting, do not disconnect the tractor" is impossible.
                        Why? Can self-propelled shoot, which interferes with firing if the tractor is nearby?
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 19 October 2019 13: 11
                        0
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Why?

                        Well, firstly, this will require fixed beds. That will greatly limit horizontal guidance angles, and a tractor hanging on the bed will also very much slow down the change of the shooting sector. And in modern combat it is very important
                        Secondly, it will make impossible the use of self-locking coulters. That is, the energy of the shot will not be transmitted to the Earth but to the tractor. With all the ensuing disastrous consequences.
                    2. bk316
                      bk316 18 October 2019 09: 58
                      0
                      What would a really towed gun not do to them?

                      What do you mean? And 2a36 what ended?
                      1. bk0010
                        bk0010 18 October 2019 21: 40
                        0
                        This is a classic towed gun, its long turn-turn. I propose making an actually two-component self-propelled gun, the difference of which from the described one is the possibility of undocking with a tractor and its replacement. Cheap will not work, but there will be certain advantages.
                  2. Boris Chernikov
                    Boris Chernikov 17 October 2019 22: 36
                    0
                    automation costs money .. the maximum that it makes sense there is a shaman with the placement of shells
    2. Franciscan
      Franciscan 17 October 2019 18: 56
      +3
      This is instead of towed guns created.
    3. K-612-O
      K-612-O 18 October 2019 08: 52
      +2
      The resource of the caterpillar chassis is not more than 3-4 thousand km. All the same, it is necessary to carry on platforms or trailers, and here just mobility increases many times and by the way the speed of deployment on a position and leaving it.
  5. steelmaker
    steelmaker 17 October 2019 18: 27
    -13
    It's bad that not the MZKT platform. It seems that with Belarusians began to settle accounts? So it would be reduced to Ukraine, they gave more reasons!
    1. Gray brother
      Gray brother 17 October 2019 18: 41
      +1
      Quote: steel maker
      So it would be reduced to Ukraine, they gave more reasons!

      They are engaged in their KrAZ.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 17 October 2019 18: 55
      +12
      Quote: steel maker
      Bad that not the MZKT platform

      It will be clearly redundant.
      Here the question is either KamAZ four-axle, or BAZ.
      From which side Belarusians were pulled here, I don’t know.
    3. Saul_Rhen
      Saul_Rhen 17 October 2019 18: 58
      0
      No, Belarusians need to be sponsored, like Ukrainians, to their own detriment, right? Minus
      1. Sally
        Sally 17 October 2019 22: 59
        0
        Why do we need this "Kursk ledge" to level the front line? It will be so easy to go there again.


        Ps sarcasm
    4. K-612-O
      K-612-O 18 October 2019 08: 53
      0
      Well, they refused to organize a joint venture with us with BAZ, and in Bryansk we also need to pay salaries.
  6. KJIETyc
    KJIETyc 17 October 2019 18: 46
    +3
    "The design of a self-propelled artillery gun may annoy the Belarusian authorities a little, as it is based on a domestic product, and not on the MZKT platforms." - Why are these scrapes on the fan? They will sell tractors to the Saudis or the Chinese. And then a small part of Russian society, called neo-Nazis and marginals, will blow up snot with bubbles what a bad daddy.
    1. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 17 October 2019 22: 33
      0
      Old Man himself is to blame and yes, until he sold anything to anyone
      1. K-612-O
        K-612-O 18 October 2019 09: 19
        0
        In addition to the Chinese CD))
        1. Boris Chernikov
          Boris Chernikov 20 October 2019 23: 22
          0
          and this is his problem)
  7. Franciscan
    Franciscan 17 October 2019 18: 49
    0
    Mzkt back in 2001 created his own sau with the Chinese and even fired from it. So here, with a lag of 18 years, Russians caught up with Belarus.


    1. Saul_Rhen
      Saul_Rhen 17 October 2019 19: 02
      +5
      And they built a lot for themselves or for export?
      Have you heard of this? The same prototype that hasn’t gone anywhere.

      The idea is so fresh and original that at the beginning of the last century similar self-propelled guns were built and applied.
      1. Franciscan
        Franciscan 17 October 2019 19: 12
        +2
        This sau marked the beginning of a family of Chinese wheeled howitzers. It was a howitzer PLL01, which is a clone of the Austrian 155-mm howitzer-gun GHN-45 (respectively, with a barrel of 45 calibers), which appeared in the PLA in 1987. This is the ancestor of the SH-1 self-propelled howitzer
        1. Saul_Rhen
          Saul_Rhen 17 October 2019 19: 22
          0
          You are now about what is shown in the photos in your post? Or about the photo in my post?
          1. Franciscan
            Franciscan 17 October 2019 19: 23
            -1
            About my pictures.
            1. Saul_Rhen
              Saul_Rhen 17 October 2019 19: 25
              +2
              Clear. Belarusian participation in this project is now near zero.
              1. Franciscan
                Franciscan 17 October 2019 19: 44
                -1
                Belarusians helped the Chinese work out the technology. and this is already a lot.
                1. Saul_Rhen
                  Saul_Rhen 17 October 2019 20: 11
                  0
                  Russians caught up with Belarus

                  And it was this help that made you squeeze it out of yourself?
                  1. Franciscan
                    Franciscan 17 October 2019 21: 34
                    +1
                    I don’t know what you’re squeezing out personally, I just cited the fact that it had already been tested 18 years ago. moreover, not in the form of cartoons or pictures, but in the form of a real-life and shooting sample, and launching into mass production will not be difficult with existing developments. The Chinese won out, and the Belarusians did not start because the old Soviet goods at the storage bases were still ramparting.
                    1. Saul_Rhen
                      Saul_Rhen 18 October 2019 00: 38
                      0
                      Oh, trainers about cartoons went. Quickly you are torn. MSTU K google, Or SU 12, to completely break the template.
                      1. Franciscan
                        Franciscan 18 October 2019 06: 57
                        +2
                        Msta-K is a Soviet experimental divisional 152 mm self-propelled howitzer, I emphasize SOVIET and NOT RUSSIAN. It was created and tested at the councils until the collapse of the USSR. The current Russian Federation has nothing to do with it,
                      2. Saul_Rhen
                        Saul_Rhen 18 October 2019 19: 19
                        -1
                        What are you saying
    2. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 17 October 2019 22: 33
      0
      This car was created as a replacement for towed guns for a specific R&D ... This is not because they were catching up for 18 years, but there was no specific task
  8. KJIETyc
    KJIETyc 17 October 2019 19: 05
    0
    Quote: Saul_Rhen
    And they built a lot for themselves or for export?
    Have you heard of this? The same prototype that hasn’t gone anywhere.

    Is it like a coalition on a wheeled platform?
    1. Saul_Rhen
      Saul_Rhen 17 October 2019 19: 26
      +3
      No. MSTA. More Soviet times.
  9. Catfish
    Catfish 17 October 2019 19: 14
    +1
    I doubt that the term "self-propelled" can be applied to this weapon. Can it fire straight away like the same "Coalition"? It is rather a SELF-PROPELLED gun, but not a self-propelled one.
    1. Saul_Rhen
      Saul_Rhen 17 October 2019 19: 28
      +1
      So historically.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 17 October 2019 19: 51
      +2
      The hamster who put a minus: at least explain why, underground worker. Minus me, "Coalition" or "Malve"? laughing
      1. bubalik
        bubalik 17 October 2019 20: 05
        +5
        Catfish
        Today, 20

        ,,, in my childhood, what two hamsters lived in the 3 lbank, and one day they ran away crying I did not find them request and only the cat, somehow with a lazy and well-fed look looked at my searches wink
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 17 October 2019 23: 39
          +2
          Hello, Sergey hi We also have enough cats here, only hamsters all the more under the floor snuggle, you won’t find right away. laughing
      2. Leopold
        Leopold 17 October 2019 20: 11
        +5
        Konstantin hi This is, according to my assumptions, for "SELF-MOVING". Someone thinks of the "stroller" sailed. feel For "SELF-MOVING" or "SELF-ALTERING DISLOCATION" would be a plus.
        Threat Minus is not from me, I stopped it. lol
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 17 October 2019 23: 35
          +1
          Thank you, Sergei. hi It's just that for me, a SELF-PROPELLED weapon is that it can fire immediately, or from a short stop. And the one that needs to be specially installed for firing a shot can, of course, be called whatever you like, but not by any means self-propelled. request
          PS I also canceled you a minus, a bad hamster will shock from powerlessness.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 18 October 2019 07: 30
            +1
            Which self-propelled gun fires like that? on the go or from the box. stop ?!
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 18 October 2019 07: 33
              -1
              Which self-propelled gun fires like that? on the go or from the box. stop ?!


              SU-76, SU-85, SU-100, ISU-152 ... Continue?
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 18 October 2019 07: 35
                +1
                You confuse tank destroyers and howitzers.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 18 October 2019 07: 38
                  +2
                  ISU - 152 tank destroyer? True, he was nicknamed "St. John's Wort", but the German 88-mm anti-aircraft gun fought with the same success, but this did not cease to be an anti-aircraft gun because of this.
                  1. Zaurbek
                    Zaurbek 18 October 2019 07: 48
                    0
                    To shoot and count and shoot are different tasks and different times.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 18 October 2019 07: 55
                      -1
                      Honestly, I didn’t understand what exactly you had in mind.
              2. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 18 October 2019 10: 51
                +2
                Quote: Sea Cat
                SU - 76, SU - 85, SU - 100, ISU - 152 ...

                I really want to look at firing on the go on the SU-152. More precisely, on the process of loading the guns on the go. smile
                In fact, all of the above you to the current self-propelled guns has a very indirect relationship. Because all Soviet self-propelled guns of the Second World War were either assault (SU-76, SU-122, SU-152, ISU-122, ISU-152), or anti-tank (SU-85, SU-100).
                The USSR did not build self-propelled guns for fire support - due to the lack of other components of the system in the country necessary for the full-fledged functioning of self-propelled guns: a set of equipment for advanced artillery corrector vehicles, ammunition transporters, reliable communications (according to test results, tank radios were unsuitable for adjustment). Without all this, self-propelled guns had no advantage over conventional towed artillery.
                And yes, as SW wrote. M. Svirin, one of the differences between the self-propelled guns and the tank is precisely that self-propelled guns do not keep moving.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 18 October 2019 16: 38
                  0
                  The IS of the third one also had a shotgun loading, and shot, at least on the TST, from short ones, but they charged on the go and did nothing, they coped. 152 mm heavier, of course, but I think in combat conditions they paid little attention to the weight of life, life is more expensive.
    3. Cympak
      Cympak 17 October 2019 22: 45
      +8
      Other self-propelled guns. This is an artillery gun with self-propelled units that allow it to independently carry out movement over short distances during battle; transported over considerable distances by an artillery tractor, similar to standard towed guns. Due to the possibility of self-propulsion (and, as a result, a quick independent change of firing positions), it is constantly in the battle formations of infantry and has the constant ability to fire direct fire
      The most famous example of a towed self-propelled howitzer FH70
      1. loki565
        loki565 17 October 2019 23: 26
        +1
        The most famous example of a towed self-propelled howitzer FH70

        But what about the Indian Super Pushkua ???)))
    4. Cat man null
      Cat man null 17 October 2019 23: 53
      +2
      Quote: Sea Cat
      I doubt that the term "self-propelled" can be applied to this weapon

      Um ...


      Prototype Slovak 155-mm / 52 self-propelled howitzer Zuzana 2

      This thing, too, cannot fire immediately. Until it comes to the support - figs ... But at the same time, it’s self-propelled request


      By the way, what about the Coalition - it definitely knows how to fire immediately? And she, in general, why should she?

      PS: I did not set a minus laughing
      1. Leopold
        Leopold 18 October 2019 02: 01
        +3
        Novel hi I’ll probably also put it in the piggy bank.

        South African self-propelled howitzer G6 "Rhino" ("Rhino")
  10. Klingon
    Klingon 17 October 2019 20: 52
    0
    Quote: Tartar 174
    A large flower, not that my Cornflower once))) Well, where is the performance characteristics ??

    the range will probably be 50+ 70 (with an active rocket), well, that's the assumption.
    1. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 17 October 2019 22: 27
      0
      will not, according to the drawing there is a standard gun from Msta-S .. and that means 29 km .. + the rate of fire will be much lower than that of Msta .. Of the pluses, this is a good and cheap replacement for towed Msta-B
  11. AAK
    AAK 17 October 2019 21: 02
    0
    In my opinion, the gun is still from Msta, the barrel length is standard, not increased, as in the Coalition, that is, the range is mediocre, there is no automatic loader either, the horizontal guidance angles, judging by the attachment point, are very small, in in general, something mediocre is obtained, plus there is no defense of the crew on the battlefield as such ...
    1. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 17 October 2019 22: 25
      +2
      an attempt to make an answer to the Wishlist MO in the form of the cheapest wheeled artillery installation ... alas, it didn’t work out very well
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 17 October 2019 22: 24
    0
    If this device would have been born 10 years ago .. it would have been cool, but now .. there’s a coalition based on Kamaz .. If patency is so important, then we put the module well, BAZ and all business .. Yes, it’ll cost cheaply .. theories
  14. Radikal
    Radikal 17 October 2019 22: 36
    -1
    Why fence a "vegetable garden" - there is a complex "Bereg", let it develop and improve. Of course, taking into account the policy of a strange department with the name of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, the main task of which to trade and arm foreign, native armies, and not then of course, will "roll" .... sad
  15. Cympak
    Cympak 17 October 2019 22: 40
    +1
    Finally! Our counterpart to the super-popular French CAESAR. Which the French successfully sell for export. This is a successful replacement for towed guns. The main advantage over self-propelled guns:
    - higher mobility due to the wheeled chassis (speed, range) on the roads
    - longer wheel chassis life compared to tracked
    - cheaper in production and operation
    - less weight, which allows you to use most bridges
    - the possibility of transporting BTA
    Advantages over towed guns:
    - the high speed of occupation and abandonment of the position, due to this significantly increases the possibility of getting out of the counter-strike.
    - the ability to automate guidance and the implementation of various fire modes due to a mechanized drive
    - higher rate of fire due to mechanization of loading.
  16. Corn
    Corn 17 October 2019 23: 48
    -2
    To succeed in the international arms market, wheeled self-propelled guns must be made on the basis of a civilian chassis, and even better, generally made a saddle trailer, under which any tractor can be taken.
  17. Pavel57
    Pavel57 18 October 2019 00: 12
    -1
    BAZ is not the most massive chassis. For export, it depends on which market is being viewed.
  18. Radikal
    Radikal 18 October 2019 00: 40
    0
    Strange, however, the audience (part) we have on "VO", everyone rushed to discuss the base, caliber, length, "size", photo, etc., etc. , and no one is interested - why, and for what, or who? sad
  19. Klingon
    Klingon 18 October 2019 02: 20
    0
    Quote: Radikal
    Strange, however, the audience (part) we have on "VO", everyone rushed to discuss the base, caliber, length, "size", photo, etc., etc. , and no one is interested - why, and for what, or who? sad

    there are too many "pros" lol
  20. Vanek
    Vanek 18 October 2019 03: 22
    0
    Tell me.

    Why reinvent the wheel? New wheeled chassis.

    After all, there are so many of them. Carnations, Acacia. Other Tulips Cornflowers.

    Just a tool to upgrade / modify.

    The issue of export is another question.

    Or maybe just launch the production of Compensators of Compensators? No?

    hi
  21. Nitarius
    Nitarius 18 October 2019 05: 44
    -1
    Yes, the president of potatoes was showing off! pancake! . you have to force your own!
  22. kalibr
    kalibr 18 October 2019 07: 16
    0
    Quote: Tol100v
    Or are the concepts of State and Military secrets a thing of the past ?!

    Long!
  23. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 18 October 2019 07: 29
    0
    Competitors are making lighter trucks. You don’t understand ours - a tower with 152mm and a AZ is placed on KAMAZ 8x8 .... and a lightweight system on a BAZ. The trendsetter is Caesar based on Renault 6x6 and Tatra 8x8. with armored cabins and without a tower, and the trunks are long.
  24. vnord
    vnord 18 October 2019 09: 28
    0
    Quote: Chaldon48
    in China, they still have not been able to establish the production of turbine blades of the same quality as in Russia.

    About 5-6 years ago, there was an interview with a professor at Kazan University (due to the fact that they got a super computer and they count turbine blades on it instead of a year, now they count a month), he said that 3 countries could produce a turbine blade from scratch and before production in the world.
  25. John_f
    John_f 18 October 2019 10: 40
    0
    But do we need it? or specifically on a wheelbase?
  26. PAVEL PYHTEEV
    PAVEL PYHTEEV 18 October 2019 13: 18
    0
    TTX are not known, as I understand it. Can someone tell me on the basis of the figure that the system has manual stabbing like CAESAR or cookies for the FH77BW L52 Archer?
  27. IAI-Azerbaijan
    IAI-Azerbaijan 18 October 2019 18: 05
    +4
    Congratulations, good idea. Yes, and good fashion went to wheeled self-propelled guns.

    (Litter for offtopic, and these are our wheeled self-propelled guns. Very accurate though, but bulky and only hit 20km. I think the Mallow will have about the same maximum firing range, instead of the acceptable 35-37km like 2C7 for example.)

  28. Cartridge
    Cartridge 19 October 2019 09: 15
    0
    As always, the question arises - what is primary? I answer. first, they develop cartridges (projectiles) with the necessary propellant charge. They are created according to the ordered characteristics (range, power, cost). After them, a barrel is created (withstands pressure on the walls when firing, ensures shooting accuracy, has an established margin of safety, etc.). After that, a base (wheeled, armored caterpillar, a machine with wheels, etc.) is created, which will be able to move the artillery unit from point "A" to point "B", and it will be cheap. The simplest ones are towed ("cheap and cheerful") - they are simply pulled, but there is a loss of time (deployment and abandonment of the OP) and maneuverability (all the same, a trailer, and this is sluggishness and 2 seats). Therefore, we need a choice - cheap towed, expensive but effective - self-propelled. We decided to do something in between (how it goes) - maybe the military will like it? In any case, this particular sample has every chance of becoming a serial (the barrel from MSTA-S means it can use the entire range of already existing power supply units; maintenance and service have already been tested; the price is unambiguously advantageous even in comparison with the towed version, since savings on the lower machine, not talking about the CAO; the accuracy is probably also at the level - there is a base plate, and not openers, which need to be buried to improve accuracy; etc.).
    Someone asked a question about shooting on the move. Modern SAOs do not fire right away, or from a short stop, except for PT SAO "Sprut-SD". The rest stand motionless, on a mountain brake to extinguish the recoil energy when fired.