Military Review

The Ministry of Industry and Trade has signed a contract to develop a new aircraft to replace An-2

99
The contract for the development of a new light multi-purpose aircraft for the replacement of An-2 has finally been signed, the work will be done by the winner of the open tender - Baikal Engineering LLC. This was reported by the press service of the Ministry of Industry and Trade.


The Ministry of Industry and Trade has signed a contract to develop a new aircraft to replace An-2


According to a published report, the Ministry of Industry and Trade and Baikal Engineering LLC signed a contract to create a new light multi-purpose aircraft to replace An-2. Serial production of the new LMS is planned to be deployed on the basis of the Ulan-Ude Aviation Plant (part of the Russian Helicopters holding).

As a result of the 10 contest held on October 2019, Baikal Engineering LLC signed a R&D contract for the implementation of research and development as part of the project to create a light multi-purpose aircraft for local airlines. Information about this is available on the website of the Unified Information System in the field of Procurement

- said the press service.

The single-engine TVS-2021DTS Baikal aircraft, previously planned for serial production from 2, developed by the Siberian Research Institute aviation will not be produced on the basis of Kukuruznik, it is a technological demonstrator created as part of the implementation of research projects aimed at conducting comprehensive research in the field of creating promising small aircraft. Developments on it will be used to create a new LMS (light multi-purpose aircraft).

The scientific and technical backlog obtained during the creation of the demonstrator, as well as during other R&D, is planned to be used in the development of a serial aircraft as part of the project to create a light multi-purpose aircraft for local airlines

- stated in the Ministry of Industry and Trade.

The decision to replace the An-2 with a new aircraft was announced in August this year. It was reported that a light multi-purpose aircraft with a capacity of 9-14 passengers will be developed, capable of providing passenger and cargo transportation at the regional level. Work on the new aircraft should begin this year, the first prototype of the aircraft for static testing should be ready until December next year.
99 comments
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  1. Sergei 23
    Sergei 23 17 October 2019 08: 55
    +13
    How long have they been harnessed to us? !! ​​(cry of the soul).
    1. svp67
      svp67 17 October 2019 08: 56
      +6
      Quote: Sergey 23
      How long have they been harnessed to us? !! ​​(cry of the soul).

      ..hope to be driven quickly ... (folk wisdom)
      The Ulan-Uda plant is vitally interested in this aircraft, since the production of helicopters on it is stopped. The question is in the same engine. Previously there was a version with a TV engine, maybe now they will be able to install our TV-7 on this aircraft
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 17 October 2019 09: 03
        +13
        Quote: svp67
        The plant in Ulan-Ude is vitally interested in this aircraft.

        Wishlist manufacturers do not matter.

        The fact is that the country itself needs a plane. Now, in so many areas, helicopters are simply replacing it. Which is very expensive. Especially in forestry
        1. svp67
          svp67 17 October 2019 09: 17
          +4
          Quote: Spade
          Wishlist manufacturers do not matter.

          Well, how can I say, this manufacturer has an interest, hard-earned. Otherwise, a factory for sale, people on the street
        2. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 17 October 2019 10: 28
          -2
          Lopatov (Lopatov)
          A plane without airfields is a piece of iron.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 17 October 2019 10: 41
            +6
            Quote: Stroporez
            Lopatov (Lopatov)
            A plane without airfields is a piece of iron.

            Also a problem. But we, as the Turkmen Komsomol, love to create difficulties for ourselves and then heroically overcome them.
            As with kindergartens. They pumped it up, and then for a lot of money they restored it with an ass in soap. The funny thing. that very soon you will have to deal with previously "optimized" schools in the same way.
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 17 October 2019 10: 46
              +3
              Lopatov (Lopatov)
              And then with "optimized" hospitals, factories, research institutes
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 17 October 2019 16: 41
                +4
                Pony girls riding
                Pony Boys Rides
                Pony running around
                And he thinks circles in his mind ... (C) A song from m / f

                "Running on the spot" also pays well here. The main thing is to shout the "correct" slogans.
          2. dauria
            dauria 17 October 2019 12: 47
            +6
            A plane without airfields is a piece of iron.

            Do you think that a helicopter does not need an airfield? For kerosene in the selmag, we’ll charge the batteries in Uncle Vasya’s garage, for service to the local auto service, and instead of the ATC, the traffic cops will work? laughing
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 17 October 2019 12: 53
              0
              dauria (Alexey Ha ha))) Needed, but tiny))))
              1. dauria
                dauria 17 October 2019 12: 58
                +5
                Needed, but tiny))))

                So An-2 can easily land on any helicopter airfield (Well, of all those that I have ever seen). Drive the cows from the meadow, but collect the rake - that’s the strip is ready. In winter, it’s hard for helicopter pilots to have sugar in the winter - dig out the parking lot with the first BC and the road for APA and TK. laughing
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 17 October 2019 13: 38
                  +3
                  dauria (Alexey)
                  You say everything correctly, only in the modern Russian Federation problems arise everywhere and always.
                  By the way, where to get the pilots?
      2. donavi49
        donavi49 17 October 2019 12: 32
        +4
        Um, how's the plant?
        Ulan-Ude - this is where the Baikal fuel assemblies were planned to be made. The reason for the site? Excellent composite workshop. That is, retrofitting is the minimum necessary.

        However, the helicopter factory is certainly interesting. But not so, that is directly a matter of life. Now, taking into account the closure of Kumertau and the transfer of Ka-32 / 27 to the KVZ - Ulan-Ude, it is planned as the only site of the Mi-8 family. At the same time, they have the most advanced board now on sale with the A2 (from which the KVZ fell ill immediately, the same Indians chose Ulan-Ude). And A3 in the development and development with the help of the head KB. They no longer make 100 helicopters per year, but still do 60-70 - while the KVZ with 100 per year fell by ~ 20 by Mi-8.

        UZGA, this is the current planned site - now there is chocolate. The factory on 100% is loaded with a screwdriver and various additional production. An order under LMS for UZGA - this will in fact result in expansion of the plant.

        They now have a big UAV contract.


        Assembly work eLok.


        Well, a big diamond screwdriver. MO ordered 35 + another option. Civilian training ordered under 100. In general, a lot of work even now.
        1. svp67
          svp67 17 October 2019 15: 29
          +1
          Quote: donavi49
          Well, a big diamond screwdriver.

          About turntables forgot to tell ... Bell 407
          1. donavi49
            donavi49 17 October 2019 15: 56
            +1
            Everything is very weakly screwed there. They were even condemned, forcing to pay a fee:
            Declared goods imported by UZGA are not separate parts ("for their own needs"), which are covered by customs rate 0%, two American helicopters (serial numbers 54608 and 54609) delivered to the company in the analysis. Based on this, it was decided that the company should pay customs fee in the amount of 15,7%.

            If Helivert there is making plans for localization and so on. That UZGA just docked according to the instructions and sells. There are no special plans. And the demand for 407 Bell is not fantastic.



            1. svp67
              svp67 18 October 2019 05: 21
              0
              Quote: donavi49
              They were even condemned, forcing to pay a fee:

              Already condemned in the opposite. From the 17th attempt, the UZGA was able to prove that their assembly was not screwdriver, but highly intelligent wassat ...
              Quote: donavi49
              And the demand for 407 Bell is not fantastic.
              Our regional Ministry of Health is lobbying for their purchase for points along the routes of "disaster medicine"
    2. jayich
      jayich 17 October 2019 09: 01
      0
      Yes, it’s not already a frank drank dough. They did Baikal, they were going to start the series, but no, the demonstrator turned out to be there, there were 4 or 5 cars before the Baikals, the only minus is the American engine on it, but we won’t saw a new one.
      1. svp67
        svp67 17 October 2019 09: 19
        +6
        Quote: jayich
        They did Baikal, they were going to start the series, but no, the demonstrator turned out to be there, there were 4 or 5 cars before the Baikals, the only minus is the American engine on it, but we won’t saw a new one.

        What about the carbon fiber body? How many enterprises do we have that know how to work with him, but on such important and voluminous details? In any case, "Baikal" could not become serial. Now it will be customized to the capabilities of the manufacturer. And today, this plant was our only one that produced carbon fiber blades of helicopter propellers.
        And further. UZGA planned to produce a mono-verkhoplan, based on the AN-2, I believe that such an aircraft is worth working out and preparing for release. the buyer must have a choice
        Something like this
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 17 October 2019 11: 23
          +2
          Quote: svp67
          And the carbon fiber casing? Do we have many enterprises that know how to work with him, but on such important and voluminous details?
          Well, you need to make sure there are a lot of them. It seems to me that it’s easier than developing a new plane again, then certifying, then launching into production. We have it for 10 years. In itself, such a building is progress, forward movement, the advantage of Baikal over competitors. New minesweepers are building carbon fiber and no one has the idea to recycle the project. And then the finished plane, already launched into production, is cut down at the last moment and begin to invent new things. Although on the other hand, what to expect from a sociologist, as Minister of Industry request
        2. Genry
          Genry 17 October 2019 13: 20
          -1
          Quote: svp67
          In any case, "Baikal" could not become serial. Now it will be customized to the capabilities of the manufacturer.

          The point is not in the capabilities of the manufacturer, but in the aircraft itself, in which, although they decided to use modern materials, the design itself has long been outdated:
          - single-engine - can fly only where unforeseen landing is possible: water, forest and mountains are contraindicated to him;
          - there is no front landing gear (goat);
          - the chassis is not removable (speed and profitability);
          - there is no exit at the cockpit (pilots walk at the feet of passengers and they can only be evacuated through a window).
          And yet it does not fit into the international and modern Russian classification for passenger capacity. By design, he is allowed to carry up to 10 people, although he can 14 (overweight).

          Need an option similar to the reduced L-410.
          1. Avis-bis
            Avis-bis 18 October 2019 09: 03
            0
            Funny.
            Quote: Genry

            - single-engine - can fly only where unforeseen landing is possible: water, forest and mountains are contraindicated to him;

            You do not say this to the "grand caravan" and "Otter" - they will beat nafig.
            - there is no front landing gear (goat);

            Generally, planes with a nose stance are more prone to scolding. Aircraft with a tail support have a different problem.
            - the chassis is not removable (speed and profitability);

            See above about "cessna" and a colleague.
            - there is no exit at the cockpit (pilots walk at the feet of passengers and they can only be evacuated through a window).

            What a problem. :) 99, (99)% of aircraft do not have such a door and pilots not only evacuate through a window or hatch, but also along a tightrope (the last one is about "large" aircraft) ..
            1. Genry
              Genry 18 October 2019 10: 49
              -1
              Quote: Avis-bis
              You do not say this to the "grand caravan" and "Otter" - they will beat nafig.

              Someone gets their silver coins for this ....
              Quote: Avis-bis
              planes with a nose stance are more prone to kidding. Aircraft with a tail support have a different problem.

              Somehow you briskly started and abruptly stumbled.
              Quote: Avis-bis
              See above about "cessna" and a colleague.

              See above for silverfish.
              Quote: Avis-bis
              99, (99)% of aircraft do not have such a door and pilots ...

              Well, just a couple for an example .... Even your favorite "Grand -..." has a door in the cockpit of the rafts.
              1. Avis-bis
                Avis-bis 18 October 2019 11: 02
                0
                Quote: Genry

                Someone gets their silver coins for this ....

                Yeah. This is a world conspiracy. :)
                Somehow you briskly started and abruptly stumbled.

                "Reasonable enough." But, I see that I was wrong with the intelligence of "Genry".
                See above for silverfish.

                This is already completely insanity. Srebreniks (exactly like that, and not some kind of drug addict "silvermen") receive (who?) For the creation / operation of "uneconomical slow-moving"? :) Quit smoking the crap you are sitting on now, jump off to a less high-rise and start learning aerodynamics.
                Well, just a couple for an example .... Even your favorite "Grand -..." has a door in the cockpit of the rafts.

                You will "well-kat" your horse if you earn. But you won't earn it. Look for examples yourself. "Caravan" has nothing to do with it. I wrote everything from the very beginning. Reasonable enough, but you can't explain it to a fool, even if you chew it up and shove it into the skull. Dare, vyunosh, discoveries never seen before are waiting for you. :)
                1. Genry
                  Genry 18 October 2019 11: 23
                  -1
                  Quote: Avis-bis
                  Yeah. This is a world conspiracy. :)

                  Where is the plot? Single-motor vehicles can be safely operated over territories where there are no problems with emergency landing. But to apply them where there are no such conditions is simply stupidity or stupid idiocy.
                  Quote: Avis-bis
                  "Reasonable enough." But, I see that I was wrong with the intelligence of "Genry".

                  How sharply you "skidded". Afraid to answer meaningfully?
                  Quote: Avis-bis
                  This is already completely insanity. Srebreniks (exactly like that, and not some kind of drug addict "silvermen") receive (who?) For the creation / operation of "uneconomical slow-moving"? :)

                  Biblical story problems? Was Judas paid "silver coins" (Slavic coin) - a specific insanity?
                  Quote: Avis-bis
                  You will "well-kat" your horse if you earn.

                  Problems with Russian speech? Or do you really say "well" to your horse ... ???
                  Quote: Avis-bis
                  Look for examples yourself. "Caravan" has nothing to do with it.

                  You and I did not drink to the Brudershaft and are unlikely to get drunk .... But you must confirm your words yourself or because of age you still do not understand.
                  Quote: Avis-bis
                  Reasonable enough, but you can’t explain the fool, even if you chew and put in the skull box.

                  Oh, how flooded your "intelligence" ...
        3. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 17 October 2019 13: 41
          -1
          And further. UZGA planned to produce a mono-verkhoplan, based on the AN-2, I believe that such an aircraft is worth working out and preparing for release. the buyer must have a choice
          I think this plane is a freak. Only a biplane, for the hinterland. For the central part, even on a goat.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. loki565
        loki565 17 October 2019 13: 51
        0
        Did Baikal, were going to let in a series

        There, a foreign engine falls under sanctions, so this is a dead project. Yes, everyone has already proved that the biplane is inferior to the monoplane. So it will be like Cessna Grand Caravan for 10 passengers

    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 17 October 2019 09: 04
      +2
      Quote: Sergey 23
      How long have they been harnessed to us? !! ​​(cry of the soul).

      Capitalism, there's nothing to be done.
    4. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 17 October 2019 10: 21
      +3
      Quote: Sergey 23
      How long have they been harnessed to us? !! ​​(cry of the soul).

      There is no one else to harness and not everything is clear with the route of the trip ...
      Information for consideration.
      Perhaps the An-2 (and its new incarnation) has its own niche, but let's imagine what it will cost to fly 14 people and 2 crew members to a distance of approx. 400 km Let me remind you that the An-2 was created as a means of transportation in off-road conditions with the possibility of landing on a dirt airfield.
      Fuel consumption - 500 liters at a price of 75 rubles per liter (A-91) - 37 rubles. Based on the estimated cost of the aircraft 500 rubles and its life of 150 and a half hours flight time = 000 ... But !!! Every 000 hours, the aircraft must undergo maintenance according to the time between overhaul resources. Add, let's say 20 (replacement of worn parts, the work of technicians). The operation of the device involves some kind of airline and personnel servicing flights, maintenance of buildings, equipment, etc. etc. We add another 000 + the salary of 11 flyers for an hour and a half (based on 250 rubles per month) = 2000 ... Total, for an hour and a half of flight passengers will have to pay 8 rubles one way ...
      Perhaps I considered it wrong. Then we calculate by comparison. A ticket for the Kemerovo-Novosibirsk bus costs 900 rubles (previously - 4, 50). It was possible to fly by plane for 9 rubles ... Let the cost of a flight for 400 km be worth 1 ... How many more settlements in the country where you have to fly “on business”, “urgently” for 800 rubles “without amenities”?
      At the current level of average salaries of residents of regions where this vehicle will be in demand? Not sure what will happen ...
      hi
      1. Avis-bis
        Avis-bis 17 October 2019 11: 06
        0
        Quote: ROSS 42
        flight of 14 people and 2 crew members

        12 passengers. You have not yet taken into account airport taxes and services: fees for take-off / pos, for SAB, for passenger clearance, and so on. For example, the charge for take-off / by + SAB alone in our OHGG will amount to 1500 rubles / ton of take-off weight. Each pax - 960 rubles / pass. Etc.
      2. dauria
        dauria 17 October 2019 13: 12
        0
        At the current level of average salaries of residents of regions where this vehicle will be in demand?


        Only where there is no other way to get and nowhere to go. According to the old memory of the USSR, the flight hour of the Mi-8 is 800 rubles. At a price of kerosene 110 rubles per ton.
        1. Town Hall
          Town Hall 17 October 2019 13: 18
          0
          Quote: dauria
          At the current level of average salaries of residents of regions where this vehicle will be in demand?


          Only where there is no other way to get and nowhere to go. According to the old memory of the USSR, the flight hour of the Mi-8 is 800 rubles. At a price of kerosene 110 rubles per ton.

          Seriously?
          Shipment Basis Density Cost per ton The cost of a liter
          Aviation Kerosene RT 0,795
          39500
          31,50 - -
          Aviation Kerosene TS-1 0,800
          39000
          31,20
          - -
          1. dauria
            dauria 17 October 2019 13: 33
            0
            Seriously?

            What's so surprising? Household kerosene for bottling in the village - 7 kopecks per liter. Consider the density of 0, 78. Plus the fact that TS-1 is not a routine.
            And so it will turn out. Naturally, I myself did not buy it, just the numbers in my head were deposited when the whole three tons from the tanker were poured into the ditch next to the airfield because of the ice in the bank for "sludge"
            1. Town Hall
              Town Hall 17 October 2019 13: 43
              0
              I thought you were talking about modern prices)
  2. Andrey591
    Andrey591 17 October 2019 08: 56
    +10
    In general, it is customary to give an order to several design bureaus, and according to the test results to choose the best.
    1. orionvitt
      orionvitt 17 October 2019 10: 06
      +3
      Survived. Aircraft of the 1946 model (according to some reports, Antonov developed it before the war), they can’t repeat it. A shame. Where is the technology, where is the progress? In any case, whatever they come up with, the AN-2 will remain the best.
  3. Prisoner
    Prisoner 17 October 2019 08: 58
    +9
    Now they are going for a long time. Along the way, managing to poke harness elements. recourse
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 17 October 2019 09: 21
      +5
      Quote: Captive
      Now they are going for a long time. Along the way, managing to poke harness elements. recourse

      They flush the upper or lower wing and slap the freak, according to the western model. For the West, the monoplane is normal, for us idiocy.
      On the site six months ago, the topic was already discussed and prototypes were dismantled. For our field airfields - only a biplane. Yes, and the failure of the engine is not so critical. Speed ​​is secondary, safety is the main thing.
      1. dauria
        dauria 17 October 2019 13: 19
        +2
        For our field airfields - only a biplane.


        Under capitalism, the best plane for us is a collective farm mare with a cart.
        Biplane, biplane. Then the fuel cost a penny, and the government paid for it and for the plane, not the passenger. The ticket price was determined on the basis of "higher" considerations.
  4. AlexVas44
    AlexVas44 17 October 2019 08: 58
    +8
    The 5th time I read this news for probably a month. One can feel how the ministry works (and the ministries as a whole) - well, very slowly.
    1. Kurare
      Kurare 17 October 2019 10: 04
      +1
      Quote: AlexVas44
      One can feel how the ministry works (and the ministries as a whole) - well, very slowly.

      hi Quickly, slowly, did the wrong thing, did the wrong thing, etc. on the list - this is not the question now.

      I am sure that an excellent glider can be made in Russia. They will be able to make it exactly for the needs of Russia, i.e. with acceptable characteristics, simple and inexpensive - hopefully. But what will be the "heart", i.e. flaming motor! That's where we hang!

      If they do it with two engines, then, I can even imagine, it is possible to put the RED A03 / V12 from Altius. You can kill two birds with one stone: there are engines and you can set them up really massively both for the civilian and for the Ministry of Defense.
      1. Avis-bis
        Avis-bis 17 October 2019 10: 56
        +3
        Quote: Kurare
        If they will do twin-engine

        It is not excluded. The article lists a very sly range of passenger capacity. In Russia, a single-engine aircraft has the right to carry no more than 9 passengers. This is also why the passenger capacity of the "Grand Caravan" was limited, despite the fact that it can carry up to 12 passengers. So, it is possible that at first they will launch one program, and in a couple of years, when the budget is already tired of this embezzlement, they will divide the project into "9-seater aircraft" and "Aircraft up to 14 seats", such as in the framework of expanding the capabilities of the fleet MVL. I don’t know if this funding will double, but it will definitely increase one and a half times.
        1. Kurare
          Kurare 17 October 2019 11: 03
          +1
          Quote: Avis-bis
          Not excluded. The article indicates a very crafty range of passenger capacity.

          Yes, in general, this reeling is not very good. Because of this, there is no normal motor engineering program. And we won’t fly anywhere without engines!
          1. Tektor
            Tektor 17 October 2019 11: 28
            0
            The aircraft building program may or may not, but the engine may already be in 2021: the Adaptation program is underway to refine the super-efficient Cortege engine for use as an aircraft (https://politexpert.net/159223-motor-avtomobilei-semeistva- kortezh-prevratyat-v-aviadvigatel)
            1. Kurare
              Kurare 17 October 2019 11: 43
              +2
              Quote: Tektor
              ... the program "Adaptation" is underway to refine the super-efficient engine "Cortege" for use as an aircraft ...

              History knows extremely few examples when a car engine has been successfully adapted to the needs of aviation. On the contrary, yes. Completely different approaches and requirements.
              In addition, the new LMS requires an engine in the region of 1000 hp. Will the Cortege's engine pull?
  5. Basarev
    Basarev 17 October 2019 09: 00
    +3
    I would really like it to be just a new aircraft, and not just an An-2 modernization. It is too ancient and completely technically outdated.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 17 October 2019 09: 14
      +4
      Technically, how old is it? In terms of service and repair, this is probably the best aircraft. Cheap and cheerful. A hole in the wing or fuselage can be repaired in fifteen minutes, and in the plastic version it is a whole science.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 17 October 2019 09: 17
        +1
        Do you propose to return to the level of the First World War, do you even understand this?
        1. Dangerous
          Dangerous 17 October 2019 09: 38
          +5
          Do you need supersonic sound at these distances? We need a conventional piston aircraft, with the ability to plan in case something suddenly, and the ability to take off / land on the ground. It is not speed and technology that are important here, but simplicity of design and operation, reliability and cost of use.
        2. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 17 October 2019 10: 29
          -1
          Quote: Basarev
          Do you propose to return to the level of the First World War, do you even understand this?

          We understand that, in the absence of a stamp, they write in simple. In the world, trains running on magnetic cushions travel at a speed of 600 km / h, and we are trying to outline the outline of a project of a cheap means of air travel ...
          It’s just right to start adapting the RIAC ... With landing, however, there may be "tension" wassat
          1. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 17 October 2019 11: 16
            +3
            Where is the magnetic cushion train around the world? There is one single line in China, the Germans and the British abandoned these trains, as unprofitable.
          2. yehat
            yehat 17 October 2019 12: 46
            +1
            we additionally need an airplane that competes with buses in conditions of poor development of roads and flight infrastructure within a radius of 200-500 km. Now An-2 can not do this, because buses developed 70 years, while the an-2 remained the same. Too archaic car, too expensive operation. And the resource of most cars is already ending.
        3. Glory1974
          Glory1974 17 October 2019 10: 41
          +2
          You suggest returning to the level of the First World War,

          I agree. It is necessary to work at a modern level. There are projects of flying cars. For our country, the very thing. You go, the road is over, you released your wings and took off. This is the technique of the 21 century. Prototypes have been around for 20. Why do we need the I-16 in a modern version?
          1. mark1
            mark1 17 October 2019 13: 07
            +2
            Quote: glory1974
            You go, the road is over, you released your wings and took off

            - You are flying, you are flying ... but there is still no road and no ... how are you going to sit down? On the "belly"? wassat
            1. Glory1974
              Glory1974 17 October 2019 19: 26
              +1
              how are you going to sit down? On the "belly"?

              To save money, the roads will not be continuous, but in pieces. The distance between the pieces is equal to the flight range of the car, on the piece there is a gas station, cafe, air station, paramedic point.
              UV
              I’ll write a little more and a federal program for the development of remote territories. laughing
        4. Ros 56
          Ros 56 17 October 2019 11: 10
          +1
          And how will the new aircraft differ from the An-2 except for the materials in its manufacture. In addition to the multiply increased price and difficulties in the service staff, nothing. Sometimes a horse with a cart is much better and more convenient than a cool jeep.
    2. Avis-bis
      Avis-bis 17 October 2019 09: 26
      0
      Quote: Basarev
      I would really like it to be (...) not just a modernization of the An-2.

      Who's talking about this? "Baikal", although made from An-2 (by the method of the Tin Woodman from "The Wizard of the Emerald City"), but in the end it is a completely new plane. And the "modernization of the An-2" was done by the "Antonov" - the An-2-100. Although, in modernization, as such, there is nothing wrong. The same DHC-3 as an example.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 17 October 2019 10: 32
        -2
        Well, I don’t know, I would be closer to a completely new aircraft, created in complete isolation from the An-2 design.
        1. Avis-bis
          Avis-bis 17 October 2019 10: 39
          +1
          Quote: Basarev
          Well, I don’t know, I would be closer to a completely new aircraft, created in complete isolation from the An-2 design.

          Yes, there is nothing "from the design of the An-2", how many times do you need to talk? From An-2 there is only a general layout - the relative position of the main units of the aircraft: wings, empennage, fuselage, landing gear and power plant. Oh, two more pilots there. Straight, everything is like in An-2, yeah ...
  6. rocket757
    rocket757 17 October 2019 09: 02
    +4
    As I see something on this topic, I don’t know, swearing or sobbing?
    There is already a link to harness for a long time, and then gallop ... I can not believe it!
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 17 October 2019 10: 32
      0
      Quote: rocket757
      There is already a link to the fact that harness for a long time, and then gallop ... I can’t believe it at all!

      For effective managers who prepare the horse, the main thing is that her head be in flowers ... Like a wedding team. What if the ass is in the soap ... wassat
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 17 October 2019 10: 46
        +1
        That is why they do not fly, they still do not do that there are more than one "nannies". And all are busy ... but what are they doing, you can't understand this without half a liter.
  7. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 17 October 2019 09: 04
    +4
    The single-engine TVS-2021DTS "Baikal" aircraft, previously planned for serial production from 2, developed by the Siberian Research Institute of Aviation on the basis of "Kukuruznik", will not be produced.
    This was planned in the 1921 year in a series (a series of how many) and where is this series. Again design work, again the wrong company and beyond. So when will the new AN-2 fly in the vastness of Russia ??? Or maybe just continue to release the good old, reliable AN-2, among the people of Annushka, you can put a new anatomical seat for the pilot and fly for the benefit of the people. And if without irony, then it’s scary to imagine what is happening in Russian aircraft construction.
  8. Avior
    Avior 17 October 2019 09: 05
    +3
    Honestly, I have not heard something about the success of the winner of the competition in the field of aircraft construction.
    Or I'm wrong?
  9. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 17 October 2019 09: 08
    +2
    very soon, these planes and no one else will do other equipment, there is no training of workers around, only drivers, sellers and security guards all sailed
  10. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 17 October 2019 09: 18
    -3
    Is “Baikal” already just a “demonstrator”? laughing lol love Clear. Looking forward to the next ..... "demonstrator" .... yes
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 17 October 2019 09: 36
      0
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      Is “Baikal” already just a “demonstrator”? laughing lol love Clear. Looking forward to the next ..... "demonstrator" .... yes

      Robot "Fedor" is our everything wassat
      1. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 17 October 2019 10: 58
        0
        Robot "Fedor" is our everything

        Not only ..... there is another, RD-180 .... yes
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 17 October 2019 11: 09
          +1
          Monster_Fat
          This is a cutthrough fellow
  11. Sether
    Sether 17 October 2019 09: 33
    -2
    Even during the USSR, the Poles made the replacement of An 2 and built the M 15, which was superior to An 2 in everything.
    1. Avis-bis
      Avis-bis 17 October 2019 10: 41
      +4
      Quote: Sether
      Even during the USSR, the Poles made the replacement of An 2 and built the M 15

      Ahhh ?! Have you seen this M-15? The question is rhetorical - not seen.
      which surpassed An 2 in everything

      KB Antonova in life did not participate in clowning and stupid contests. Only in such competitions M-15 favorite.
      The main thing that the desire was

      Well yes. Here you had a desire to blurt out stupidity, you realized it. :)
      1. Sether
        Sether 17 October 2019 13: 45
        0
        In our city at the airport there were M 15 and An 2 and my friends pilots and technicians served and flew on one and the other and preferred M 15 both in terms of productivity and economy and so on. Do you judge M15 from which sources?
        1. Avis-bis
          Avis-bis 17 October 2019 21: 47
          -1
          Quote: Sether
          In our city at the airport there were M 15 and An 2 and my friends pilots and technicians served and flew on one and the other and preferred M 15 both in terms of productivity and economy and so on. Do you judge M15 from which sources?

          Hmm ... Poor you know people. Those whom you considered your friends, held you by the clown, over whom you can make fun of how cruelly. I should sympathize with you, but I am not Commissioner Megre.
  12. itarnmag
    itarnmag 17 October 2019 10: 10
    0
    How much can you research, develop. How much squealing was about these beautiful planes. It's time to let out at least something
  13. bratchanin3
    bratchanin3 17 October 2019 10: 36
    +3
    In Soviet times, the AN-2 was simply indispensable in the national economy. It seems that the new development of this class of aircraft liberal government red tape. Oh, again, for some reason, I remembered Comrade Stalin!
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 17 October 2019 12: 01
      +1
      But the Soviet time is gone. It is now a priority to use different planes - in different niches. To create hubs - where to lease services. For with collective farms that’s all. And farmers do not even need one plane. But he will want to take the service there 10 once a year. Another couple of farmers are similar and are already paying off.

      In Russia, specialized farmer aircraft are mass-produced (yes, although this is a special development, but with a high% of imports, they have not yet been hit by sanctions). It is cheaper, cheaper to operate and more efficient in this niche than An-2



      If you take a light aircraft, primarily for transporting people and goods from unequipped sites in the 9-14. It’s Grand Caravan and the newcomer (10 of years on the market just recently) Quest Aircraft. They are superior to An-2 in their niche. For the price, by the way, it’s quite affordable, well, you need to see how much the new aircraft will be - for example, Quest Aircraft naked in the form of 1,95-2,05 million dollars right now, in a full package (trunk, water skiing, a more powerful engine, the avionics kit is cooler) - 2,35-2,48 million

      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 17 October 2019 19: 19
        +1
        But the Soviet time is gone. It is now a priority to use different planes - in different niches. To create hubs - where to lease services. For with collective farms that’s all. And farmers do not even need one plane. But he will want to take the service there 10 once a year.

        The most Soviet system. It was called MTS - a machine and tractor station. They had equipment and ensured the work of 3-4 collective farms. When the country became rich, they decided that each collective farm needed its own equipment. From that moment, many collective farms became unprofitable.
        So your option is life tested, and quite viable. It remains only to find interested people who can organize this in small aircraft.
  14. mik193
    mik193 17 October 2019 10: 42
    +1
    How much can you create? It’s time to do it already!
  15. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 17 October 2019 10: 55
    0
    Something give birth to this topic for a long time. On the other hand, the old man An-2 is working and may soon wait for retirement.
  16. Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 17 October 2019 11: 04
    0
    A funny contest where the winners change periodically. I hope at least this decision is final.
    1. mark1
      mark1 17 October 2019 13: 18
      0
      Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
      A funny contest where winners change periodically

      Most likely, it is here that it is necessary to look for the possible interest of Minister Manturov. The fact is that, it seems, JSC “UZGA” is controlled by Viktor Grigoriev. When the future minister headed OPK Oboronprom JSC, Grigoryev was his first deputy in this organization.

      Now Viktor Evgenievich is a successful banker. He controls NK-Bank, which, by a “lucky coincidence”, from time to time transfers interesting assets of ROSTEH, in which, as you know, the minister is the chairman of the supervisory board
      By the way, Yuri Borisov is also interested in the work of UZGA JSC. Even when he was deputy defense minister Sergei Shoigu, Yuri Borisov pushed for UZGA JSC to place an order for the production of 30-40 L-410 and L-610 aircraft per year, for a period of 5 to 10 years for the Russian Defense Ministry.

      Source: https://versia.ru/chi-interesy-lobbiruet-ministr-denis-manturov-v-stranax-vostochnoj-evropy

      Here is a version ..
  17. Berkut24
    Berkut24 17 October 2019 11: 29
    +2
    Not even 20 years have passed since the screams of local airlines ... During this time, much larger and more complex planes have already taken place, and then the officials finally decided that it was possible to take on the "corncob-2".
  18. Vitalii21
    Vitalii21 17 October 2019 11: 36
    0
    This plane is needed not yesterday, but only tomorrow! if yesterday or today, then without subsidies he will not survive. And tomorrow it will be available to everyone as a means of transportation, not luxury!
  19. senima56
    senima56 17 October 2019 12: 04
    +2
    And why did TVD-2TVS "Baikal" not suit you ?! They will again spend (plunder) a lot of money in a few years, and then they will say: "Well, it didn't work out!" And we will assemble imported aircraft with a screwdriver! It's time to bring the "enemies of the people" and "wreckers" in government agencies to clean water again!
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 17 October 2019 13: 31
      0
      The American engine and the price did not suit.
  20. yehat
    yehat 17 October 2019 12: 34
    0
    Quote: Sergey 23
    How long have they been harnessed to us? !! ​​(cry of the soul).

    this is not true. More like crooked. Already 3 projects to replace the old An-2 have failed.
    This is the fourth that I know of.

    What issues are not resolved - I will list what I know myself
    1. multi-fuel engine. We need the same unpretentious as on Cessna, and OUR engine with the right power so that you can fill in the available fuel. Now the An-2 uses too rare and expensive.
    2. fuel efficiency. A new car should be at least one and a half times more economical.
    3. Avionics. We must produce at least part of modern avionics ourselves at a good level, so that this does not increase the cost of the machine, which should be AVAILABLE both in price and in repair. It is necessary to ensure the normal ability to fly on devices, including at night, in the basic configuration of the machine.
    4. Communication equipment. We must do it ourselves and again at a high level.
    Well, the last thing - on a new machine it is highly desirable to maintain a number of An-2 features - the ability to refuel yourself, a short take-off / landing on the ground, low-cost operation and it is advisable to increase cruising speed by 20-40km without significantly increasing landing.
    And you also need to leave some kind of modernization potential in order for the aircraft to truly become multi-purpose, for the passenger option it would be nice to provide a more stable flight, the availability of a toilet and a number of other comfort requirements.
    Provide a rational alignment of cargo.

    It is IMPOSSIBLE to carry out all these tasks in huffs, so I look very negatively at the stated timelines and consider the new project another cut.
  21. yehat
    yehat 17 October 2019 12: 38
    +1
    Quote: donavi49
    But the Soviet time is gone. It is now a priority to use different planes - in different niches. To create hubs - where to lease services. For with collective farms that’s all. And farmers do not even need one plane. But he will want to take the service there 10 once a year. Another couple of farmers are similar and are already paying off.

    this is called the Soviet repair and transportation stations, technical centers that they began to create under Stalin. So no Soviet time has passed. Learn the story.
  22. yehat
    yehat 17 October 2019 12: 40
    -1
    Quote: senima56
    And why did TVD-2TVS "Baikal" not suit you ?!

    very expensive. This is a small aircraft for billionaires
    And you need a plane for ordinary people. Well, a number of problems were not solved in the project.
    For example, there was a low cruising speed.
    and another question - where can you repair its wings? There is simply no such repair base.
    1. mark1
      mark1 17 October 2019 13: 34
      0
      Quote: yehat
      very expensive.

      Cost from 2,5 to 3 million dollars (150-180 million rubles ... with a high share of foreign components)
      - For 2021-2025, documents have already been signed for the production of 200 aircraft for civil aviation on the routes of Yakutia. 6 aircraft requested by a Mongolian company. Southern countries show great interest - we are talking about the acquisition of 50 to 80 aircraft. Our representatives also negotiated in Malaysia and Indonesia,

      Do not compose wink
      1. yehat
        yehat 17 October 2019 13: 42
        0
        sign companies that have currency and quite money companies. In rubles, the plane is expensive. So can the Russian post exploit this? Yes, definitely not.
        And in local passenger transportation, the payback of such an apparatus will exceed 20 years.

        and about operation. Recently, the Poles completed their tour on the An-2 in our country.
        We flew the entire territory from Vladik to Warsaw, visited most of the significant airfields of small (and not only) aviation, and during the entire journey we met only 1 (!) TVD-2TVS "Baikal" aircraft, and it did not belong to an ordinary owner and was not engaged in active flights ...
        such a reality.
        1. mark1
          mark1 17 October 2019 14: 03
          0
          Quote: yehat
          So can the Russian post exploit this?

          Russian Post can even operate the Tu-204 (which it successfully does)
          And you probably think that every Russian should have the opportunity to purchase TVS-2DTS (or something like that for thousands of let's say for 500?) L-410 costs more than 5,5 million dollars.
          Quote: yehat
          and during the entire journey we met only 1 (!) TVD-2TVS "Baikal" plane, and that one did not belong to an ordinary owner and was not engaged in active flights.

          Yes, the owner is not simple - SibNIIA and not a lot of copies were made because - "technology demonstrator" We were lucky that we met.
          Do not compose wink
        2. donavi49
          donavi49 17 October 2019 14: 59
          +2
          Well, so it was only in 21 that they planned to put Baikal in a series.

          What about expensive? And what is cheap? Will the new aircraft be much cheaper? There’s T500 - which I posted above the photo, it’s 10 times cheaper - about 15 million rubles. Moreover, there is also a foreign engine - Lycoming. And the modular sprayer is also foreign.

          If we go to the conditions of the 9-14 competition, people use it everywhere (modularity, modular water skiing, modular roof rack, etc.) - we will take again the fresh and popular Kodiak. 1,95-2,05million dollars right now, in a full package (trunk, water skiing, a more powerful engine, an avionics kit more cool) - 2,35-2,48 million. This is taking into account the assembly in the Arizona region.
          It carries 9 people or 1,5-2 cargo in the cabin of 7 cubometers.


          Or, again, 208 Cessna is worth 2.6 million dollars 9-13 passengers or 2-2,5 cargo.



          If we are talking about the American engine. What will it be? There are no others.
          Cup - does not pull 9-14 people. Well, it’s more likely to stretch, but then we cross out work from the ground and highlands. Or install the 2 engine, then the installation will be on 30-40% more powerful than necessary, but this is the 2 engine, more fuel consumption, twice as much expenditure on maintenance and service.

          TVshka - make a VTOL aircraft laughing . Well, in general, even the weakest, twice as powerful as necessary. This is a greater fuel consumption. Glider overweight, due to the need to strengthen the engine. Less engine life and more maintenance costs.

          A light and preferably multi-fuel engine in ~ 1000-1150 horses does not even have a design board.
  23. yehat
    yehat 17 October 2019 12: 47
    0
    Quote: Ros 56
    Cheap and cheerful.

    Is pneumatics cheap?
  24. yehat
    yehat 17 October 2019 12: 49
    +1
    Quote: Basarev
    Well, I don’t know, I would be closer to a completely new aircraft, created in complete isolation from the An-2 design.

    A complete separation is not necessary, just need to try to maintain the most successful.
    the only controversial point in essence is whether or not to save the biplane scheme.
  25. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 17 October 2019 13: 37
    0
    Peeling the budget again! And where is the engine for him to get? The demonstrator was American ...
  26. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 17 October 2019 13: 40
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: Stroporez
    Lopatov (Lopatov)
    A plane without airfields is a piece of iron.

    Also a problem. But we, as the Turkmen Komsomol, love to create difficulties for ourselves and then heroically overcome them.
    As with kindergartens. They pumped it up, and then for a lot of money they restored it with an ass in soap. The funny thing. that very soon you will have to deal with previously "optimized" schools in the same way.

    Already, in Chelyabinsk this fall in one of the schools opened 20 (twenty, Karl!) First classes!
  27. yehat
    yehat 17 October 2019 15: 39
    0
    Quote: mark1
    And you probably think that every Russian should have the opportunity

    the small aviation competition window is pretty narrow
    if exceeded, small aircraft will simply die.
    and in fact a plane similar to the an-2 should not be more expensive than 15 million rubles or a discounted analogue. Otherwise, it makes no sense. Because small aircraft must serve lightly loaded routes and pay off with an affordable ticket price and not full load.
    say, 8 tickets within 1.5-2 tr for 200 km of flight.
    Now even the old An-2 is not capable of this.
    L410 may be close to such prices, but with a full load.
  28. yehat
    yehat 17 October 2019 15: 57
    0
    Quote: donavi49
    If we are talking about the American engine. What will it be? There are no others.
    VKashka - will not draw 9-14 people. Well, it’s more likely to pull it out, but then we cross out work from the ground and highlands

    The VK-cabinet pulls out calmly, you just need to redo it according to new standards and provide a normal compressor. An-2 has a large supply of power - it takes off almost like instant-29, if it wants.
    the problem is different - the VK-eats the wrong fuel and too much. Therefore, the engine must be changed thoughtfully.
    Everything is foreign to the furnace - due to the understated ruble rate by two, the aircraft will turn out to be golden.
    the biplane scheme will ensure take-off everywhere, but the monoplane can be done.
    I would also like to keep simple effective solutions like automatic slats
  29. yehat
    yehat 17 October 2019 16: 00
    0
    Quote: Dzafdet
    Peeling the budget again! And where is the engine for him to get? The demonstrator was American ...

    an engine can be made in 2-3 years or adapt an existing one.
    and even just redoing VK-shku on a new technological base will already be a gain.
    and it’s better to immediately choose both the parameters of the machine and the power so that it is possible to choose engines.
    now the an-2 is a little out of the general "trend" in terms of power.
  30. Mainbeam
    Mainbeam 17 October 2019 18: 15
    0
    VERY bad article. Three (or more) multiple repetitions of the same thoughts in different formulations, starting with the title of the article. It would be possible to shrink the second text. Make it more specific. Add photo TVS-2DTS "Baikal", finally. You read a shitty article and then filter comments to catch up with more competent information.

    This is noticeable in several recent articles on VO. Remove repetition in the text. No need to insert a quote, and then retell it in the text in your own words. Dry the water. Very disgusting to read. You think there are a lot of beeches in the text, there will be some sense. Oh no. Empty rubbish.