Russ in the Caspian. The death of the Russian army on the Volga

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Russian campaigns in the Caspian were associated with the economic and commercial interests of Russia. The desire of the soldiers to take rich prey, cut a road to the East. Also, the campaigns were associated with the union of Russia and Byzantium, directed against the Arabs.

Russ in the Caspian. The death of the Russian army on the Volga

Russ. Warriors of the North. Artist I.E. Ozhiganov




Fairytale East


The unknown eastern countries, from where merchant caravans with goods surprising to Europe arrived to the markets of Constantinople and Kiev after a long journey, always attracted the Russians (Russians). From the East to Byzantium, to Russia, to other European countries, the finest fabrics and damask steel, precious stones and beautiful horses, carpets, gold, silver, bronze articles, etc., fabulous eastern countries attracted Europeans, did not give rest to merchants and soldiers .

Russian trading people have long paved the way to the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium), to Syria, Bulgaria, Hungary, Poland and German lands, but the East seemed inaccessible. On the eastern routes stood the hostile Khazar Khaganate. The Khazars controlled trade routes along the northern coast of the Black Sea, along the Don and along the Lower Volga. In the hands of the Volga Bulgars and Burtases, tributaries of the Khazars, there were ways along the Oka and the Middle Volga. It was impossible to go to the Caspian Sea, Transcaucasia and further to the countries of Near and Central Asia, the Khazar and Bulgarian outposts interfered.

With each decade, the growing and developing Russian power more acutely felt the isolation from the trade routes leading to the East. And the fame of the rich eastern shopping centers increasingly reached the Kiev rulers. In Kiev, they already knew well about the rich cities of Abesgun and Sari, lying on the southern coast of the Caspian Sea, from where the road to Khorezm opened through Khorasan and Maverannahr. To the west were the rich lands of Tabaristan and Gilan. In Transcaucasia, on the Kura River, the local "Baghdad" - Berdaa - was famous for its bazaars.

These eastern lands and cities to the IX-X centuries. became part of the Arab caliphate. The Caliphate subjugated almost the whole of Transcaucasia, part of Central Asia, and continued its offensive in the Middle East, approaching the Byzantine possessions in Syria and Asia Minor. The Caliphate became the main and mortal enemy of the Byzantine Empire. In the South Caucasus, the caliphate vassals were located - the rulers of Maverannahr, Khorasan, Tabaristan and Gilan. To fight them, the Second Rome mobilized all its allies, including Khazaria. Already from the 7th century, the Khazars fought with the Arabs who tried to break through the Derbent "iron" gate to the North Caucasus and further to the Sea of ​​Azov and the Lower Volga. In 737, the Arab army, under the command of Marwan, broke deep into the territory of the Kaganate, took the then capital Semender. The Khazar Khagan fled for the "Slavic River" (Don). Arabs also encountered Slavs, some of whom were vassals of Khazaria. Thousands of Slavic families were taken into slavery. So the Rus, some of which was dependent on the Khazars, entered into a confrontation with the Arab conquerors.

In the following decades, the confrontation between Byzantium and Khazaria (in the armies of which there were many Slavs) with the caliphate continued. At the end of the VIII - beginning of the IX century, Russia became a formidable force in the region. The second Rome tried to use the Rus in the fight against the Arabs. Khazaria at that time weakened. Khazaria was tormented by the Pechenegs, Arabs and their allies ruled in the former Khazar possessions in the North Caucasus. The Slavic-Russian tribes were liberated one after another from the Khazar yoke. Under Prince Oleg Veshch almost all Slavic lands freed from the Khazars. Byzantium needed a new military force, which could be opposed to the Arab and Islamic world instead of the fading Khazaria. So rapidly developing Russia entered the sphere of influence of Constantinople.

Campaigns to the East


The first known blow to the East was dealt by Russia in the 60 years of the 9th century, shortly after the campaign to Constantinople. It was a trip to the city of Abesgun, which was the key to the trade route to Central Asia. Rus came to the southern coast of the Caspian, walked along the coast. The ruler of Tabaristan, the vassal of the caliphate Hassan ibn Zayd, sent his army against the Russians. In a fierce battle, according to a Persian source, the Russians were defeated and retreated. It is possible that this campaign was connected with the union of the Rus with Byzantium. Russia fulfilled allied commitments, diverting the Arabs in this region.

It is obvious that Khazaria, as an ally of Byzantium, let a detachment of Rus into the Caspian through its possessions. Although the Khazar rulers hated the Rus, since Russia already hung formidable shadow from the north over the kaganate. And soon, Grand Duke Oleg will ask the Slavic tribes: “To whom do you give tribute?” - and when he heard “Kozar”, he will proudly say: “Do not give Kozar, but give me”. But it still will be. In the meantime, reluctantly, and blocking themselves from the Rus by the Sarkel fortress, the Khazars passed the Rus through their outposts into the Caspian and Transcaucasia.

Rus came to the Caspian region, to the famous trading harbor of Abeskun, a large economic center of the whole region, from where the way to Khorezm went. That is, the interests of political, allied obligations to the Second Rome, went here hand in hand with the trade, economic interests of Russia. Warriors could take rich prey here, punch the road further to the East.

In 907, between the Second Rome and Kiev, a new treaty of "peace and love" was concluded, which included the help of the Rus of the Byzantine Empire. The pay for help was an annual tribute to Byzantium. In 909 - 910 years. Russ embarked on a new campaign to the East, and again to Abesgun. Again through the territory of Khazaria. About this campaign reports the Persian author of the XIII century. Ibn Isfendiyar in "Stories Tabaristan. " He reports that in the 909 year a Russian squad appeared on the 16 ships (rooks accommodated from 40 to 60 warriors). Rus came by sea and devastated the coast. The next year, the Russians came in even greater numbers, burned the city of Sari in the southeastern part of the Caspian Sea. On the way back, the Russian detachment withstood the battle with the troops of the local rulers - Gilyanshah and Shirvanshah. It is possible that the Rus did not return to their homeland for the first time, but remained here for the winter (as later), and then in the summer, when it was convenient for sea crossings, again fell upon the enemy. On the whole, the campaign was large-scale, the Russians were fighting for at least several months, the troops of the rulers of Shirvan and Gilan were chained to themselves.

The Russ campaign in the Caspian was part of a larger confrontation. Byzantium fought a hard fight with the Arabs. At the same time, Russian squads appeared in the Byzantine army. In particular, they conduct operations against Arabs in Crete. In the east, the Byzantine ally, the Armenian king Smbat, rebelled and tried to throw off the power of the Arabs, who relied on the forces of their vassals, the rulers of Maverannahr and Khorasan, in the South Caucasus and the Caspian region. That is, the campaign of the Rus in the Caspian was to help the Armenian king. So Kiev paid for the Byzantine tribute, for trade privileges to Russian merchants, for the access of our merchants to the markets of the empire. At the same time, Russia respected its military-strategic and economic interests, tried to pave the way to the East.

Khazaria in this military operation acted as a tactical ally of Russia, as it was bound by obligations to the Byzantines. Several directions are known in which the Rus could get to the Caspian. It is known that the Rus went on ships (boats or boats) first along the Dnieper, then along the northern coast of the Black Sea, past the Crimea, where there were Byzantine possessions, through the Kerch Strait to the Sea of ​​Azov. From there, up the Don, dragging to the Volga and down the Volga to the Caspian. Another way is along the Don, and from there to the Volga, or along the Volga, through the possessions of the Volga Bulgaria and Khazaria. Thus, in the Sea of ​​Azov, on the Don and Volga, the Rus were supposed to go along the Khazar possessions, which was possible only with their permission. The army of Prince Oleg the Prophet or his governor marched through the territory of Khazaria, with which the Russian prince waged stubborn wars for the liberation of part of the glorious Russian tribes from the Khazar yoke.

By the force of historical circumstances, the great game of that time, mortal enemies, Russia and Khazaria, were forced to enter into a tactical alliance against a common enemy - the Arabs. If the caliphate and its Muslim allies threatened the Khazaria’s possessions in the North Caucasus and the Volga region, and the kaganate fought for its sphere of influence, then Russia used this situation to break through to the East. Pave trade and military routes into rich lands that have long attracted Russian merchants and combatants. At the same time, the Russians carried out strategic reconnaissance in the lands of Khazaria and its allies. We studied the terrain, routes, convenient parking lots, outposts and fortifications of the enemy.

Hike 912 of the year. Battle on the Volga


In 911, an article appeared in the Russo-Byzantine treaty that revealed the meaning of allied assistance from Russia. Already in 912, the Russian army again found itself in Transcaucasia. According to the Arab author Al-Masudi, a fleet of Rus from 500 ships (20 — 30 thousand soldiers) entered the Kerch Strait. The Khazar king allowed the Rus to go through the Don to the Volga, and from there go down to the Caspian Sea. At the same time, the kagan demanded to give him half of the future production.

The blow of the whole Russian army on the Caspian possessions of Muslim rulers was terrible. At first, the Russians fell on Tabaristan. They attacked, as before, the city of Abesgun, then turned west, walked through the lands of Gilan and appeared in the "oil-bearing region on Absheron" (Absheron is a peninsula in modern Azerbaijan, on the western coast of the Caspian Sea). As was usual in those days, the Russians robbed local settlements, took prisoners and severely suppressed any attempts at resistance.

Arab sources report that the Russian troops were in those places "for many months", smashed by detachments of local Muslim rulers. Shirvanshah’s fleet had the imprudence to attack the Rus, but was destroyed. Thousands of Muslim warriors perished. The Russians wintered on an island near Baku and moved home the next year. On the way, the Russian commanders again contacted the Khazar ruler, sent him gold and mining, by agreement. However, the Khazar Muslims and Arabs, who formed the guard of the kagan, demanded revenge for the blood of their brothers. The destruction of the Russian army was in the interests of Khazaria. Also, the kagan and his entourage wanted to capture the huge prey that went to the Russians in the Caspian.

Obviously, local Muslims and Khazars gathered a large army, otherwise they would not have dared to attack governor Oleg (or himself). The Rus had a fleet of 500 rooks, from 20 to 30 thousand fighters. The Muslim Guard entered the battle - 15 thousand soldiers, chained in iron, the Muslim militia of Itil, the new capital of Khazaria, the squad of the nobility. A fierce battle lasted three days and ended in the death of the Russian army. Only part of the army broke through the Volga, but there the Khazars, the Burtases and Bulgars, finished off the Rus. Apparently, they were also warned in advance about the appearance of the Rus. Nevertheless, part of the Russians cut through to their homeland and reported on the betrayal of the Khazars. It is possible that it was in this campaign that the Prophetic Oleg laid his head. He died in 912. According to legend - from a snake bite. The serpent is a symbol of betrayal. The Khazars betrayed the Russians, they let them in as a union in the struggle against the Arabs, and received a large payment for this.

Thus, the Russian campaign began in accordance with the old alliance with Byzantium. Khazaria, performing an allied duty to the Byzantines, missed the Russian army into the Caspian. But then the old, bloody contradictions between the Rus and the Khazars affected. The Khazars had a great opportunity to destroy a strong army of Russians, thereby improving the situation on the northern borders, trying to turn the general situation in relations with Russia in their favor. The reason was the discontent of the Muslim Hagan Guard, which demanded revenge for the blood of co-religionists. Which led to the attack of the Khazars and their allies on the army of Oleg, weighed down by huge booty and not expecting a traitorous blow.

In addition, at this time, relations between Byzantium and Khazaria were greatly damaged. The Khazar nobility adopted Judaism, which was negatively met in Christian Byzantium. The guard of the kagan was mainly from Muslim and Arab warriors. The Khazars begin to disturb the Crimean possessions of the Byzantine Empire. In response, Constantinople entered into an alliance with part of the Pecheneg clans, set them against Khazaria.

The destruction of the Russian army finally determined the relations of Russia and Khazaria. The tactical alliance was destroyed. The rumors, hidden discontent and hardly suppressed contradictions between the old rivals ended. Russia faced the question of just revenge, the destruction of the Khazaria and control of the interfluve of the Volga and Don, trade routes leading to the East. The Khazar barrier had to be destroyed. What did the great Russian prince Svyatoslav (Svyatoslav’s strike on the Khazar "wonder-yud"; How Svyatoslav squads defeated the state of the Khazars).


Prophetic Oleg. Farewell to the horse. Artist I. Ozhiganov
94 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. +10
    16 October 2019 06: 57
    sources? Are there any traces of the destruction of the Russian army by the Khazars? Of course the theory is folding, but where are the facts on which it rests?
    1. +19
      16 October 2019 09: 43
      but where are the facts on which it rests?
      Judging by the theory, its source is Papaver somniferum.
      As a result, the author’s vision of history has this form.
      1. +5
        16 October 2019 10: 33
        Quote: Undecim
        her source is Papaver somniferum

        Not sure. It seems to me more common with this:
        1. +6
          16 October 2019 11: 39
          Yeah. "Jah will give us everything!"
          "Sensimiglia will be enough for everyone as long as reggae sounds" (c)
      2. +7
        16 October 2019 11: 42
        Something they have some kind of strange color.
        "Over Canada the sky is blue
        Along the elephants, slanting rains
        Although it looks like Russia
        But still not Russia "???
        1. +6
          16 October 2019 11: 54
          Something they have some kind of strange color.
          So the author sees.
        2. +3
          16 October 2019 21: 03
          Quote: 3x3zsave

          Something they have some strange color ....

          "Pretty funny joke
          The guys played with elephants:
          Painted pink
          They made me swear. "
          (c) (almost).
      3. +3
        16 October 2019 20: 05
        I saw elephants among birches, and you?
      4. -3
        17 October 2019 00: 12
        As a result, the author’s vision of history has this form.

        The author raised a topic that is too sensitive for Ashkenazi Jews - it is not surprising that they "stomped on" it here)))
        Below, in the comments, the census can be done simply)))
    2. +7
      16 October 2019 10: 19
      Quote: horus88
      sources? Are there any traces of the destruction of the Russian army by the Khazars? Of course the theory is folding, but where are the facts on which it rests?

      This is described by Al-Masudi, it is supposed in ser. X century: also Muhammad ibn Isfendiar, a Persian-speaking author of the beginning of the XIII century, reports on the appearance of Rus on the southern coast of the Caspian in the 2 half of the IX century
      1. +5
        16 October 2019 13: 06
        Quote: Wend
        This is described by al-Masudi

        Arab authors strictly distinguish between Rus and Slavs.
        The descriptions of the funeral rite of the Rus made by the Arabs exactly correspond to what we see in the mounds in Sweden, in Gnezdovo and in Ladoga. Identical rite and funerary equipment.
        The first information about the presence of the Rus state on the territory of Eastern Europe - the most famous embassy of Flofei to Louis the Pious ("the people grew", which, as it turned out, "Sveons") - 839.
        In short, the author wants to present us with the usual Scandinavian raids, which then affected all of Europe, as organized military campaigns subordinated to a single political and strategic plan during the organized struggle of the Russian-Byzantine coalition against its southern and eastern neighbors. At the same time, for some reason, nothing was said about the raids of Russia (not the state, but the Scandinavian sailors) on the same Byzantium. They didn’t care who to rob.
        1. +1
          16 October 2019 14: 41
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Quote: Wend
          This is described by al-Masudi

          Arab authors strictly distinguish between Rus and Slavs.
          The descriptions of the funeral rite of the Rus made by the Arabs exactly correspond to what we see in the mounds in Sweden, in Gnezdovo and in Ladoga. Identical rite and funerary equipment.
          The first information about the presence of the Rus state on the territory of Eastern Europe - the most famous embassy of Flofei to Louis the Pious ("the people grew", which, as it turned out, "Sveons") - 839.
          In short, the author wants to present us with the usual Scandinavian raids, which then affected all of Europe, as organized military campaigns subordinated to a single political and strategic plan during the organized struggle of the Russian-Byzantine coalition against its southern and eastern neighbors. At the same time, for some reason, nothing was said about the raids of Russia (not the state, but the Scandinavian sailors) on the same Byzantium. They didn’t care who to rob.

          Yes, they differ, only to the Scandinavians Russ have no relation whatsoever. And all Europe before the Scandinavians is not a shiver laughing In England there was a curse "What would you see Irish sails in the window!", That's who they feared in England, not the Scandinavians. A furore Normannorum libera nos, o Domine! they mainly refer to this phrase, but the fact is that the Cathedral in Metz, on May 1, 888, at the height of the Viking warfare on the Seine and Rhine, decided to include divine services in the text. Just a prayer for victory in a military conflict. And nothing more. And they fanned another myth about the Scandinavians.
          1. +2
            16 October 2019 15: 09
            If only this prayer spoke of the Viking campaigns, you could argue. Unfortunately for you, there are so many independent sources talking about the Viking raids, they are described in such detail and vividly that I do not even see any reason to bring them. Take any chronicles or annals of that time and be convinced. But if for you the proverb that arose when it is unknown, where it is unknown and for what reason (which, by the way, I hear for the first time) outweighs the cross-sectional data of dozens of independent sources, then I’m afraid to argue with you is a waste of time, because your conviction lies in the field of irrational.
            And, by the way, when a believer asks God for victory, he just says: "grant me victory" over such and such, and not "deliver me from the rage" of such and such. For the people of that time, the pagan Viking raids were not a military conflict (military conflicts are internecine wars between nobles), but a punishment, retribution for sins, including those very nobles. Therefore, the church did not call on them to fight, but only asked God for mercy to "deliver".
            Quote: Wend
            Russ have no relation to the Scandinavians

            Do you also think that the Russians are "non-Poles"?
            And I also wanted to ask: are those thoughts that you stated in your message are the result of your own thoughts or are you gleaned from some kind of literature? If the second, then do not refuse courtesy, acquaint me with the authors and the names of their works.
            1. +4
              17 October 2019 10: 23
              A proverb, or rather prayer, arose when, as I pointed out, in the commentary. You can read in chronographs or
              L. Musset Barbarian onslaught on Europe: German onslaught 2008
              Ireland and Scotland in the Dark Ages
              Morton A.P. History of England
              Vikings? What kind of Vikings are these?
              Are they not those who are mentioned in Icelandic sagas, which are considered unreliable sources, the authenticity of which was confirmed only by a paleographic method and which have survived only in later copies. Danish archaeologist Johannes Brøndsted: "The Icelandic sagas were influenced by romantic ideas ... about an ideal warrior community."
              Or are these Vikings?
              "When they went to the east to the sea, they were attacked by the Vikings. These were fouls. They captured both people and goods. They killed some of the captured, they divided among themselves as slaves" - "Circle of the Earth" S. Sturluson
              Or these Vikings, which are NOT REFERRED to in Anglo-Saxon sources and early Frankish annals, which are known only by “pagans” (“pagani”), “pirates” (“piratae”), “barbarians” (“barbari”) “plebs impiissima ”(“ Wicked people ”) and a specific enumeration of peoples.
              Or maybe these that were NOT KNOWN in the 16 century, for example, the Swedish historian and writer of the 16 century, Olaf Magnus - does not use the word “Viking” at all. He uses the two terms Normans Latin pirates. However, in translating his work into modern Swedish, the Vikings are substituted for the original pirates.
              Or maybe these Vikings, which are not in the Adelung dictionary in 1808 and are not found at Brockhaus in 1837.
              Or these Vikings, Danish and Swedish historians Thomas Aldrup and Oke Persson believe that the Vikings myth was composed of Scandinavian romantics, using data from continental material culture.
              Maybe these Vikings?
              Lind, “The Conquest of Russia by a Viking”, until the 80s of the last century the word Viking was practically not found in the works of Soviet authors, then from the beginning of the 21st century in Russia began to appear work after work with the word Viking in the title. We can even be glad that the tourism industry, using the Viking brand, guarantees the best sale of our work to us. "
              So what kind of Vikings did you mean?

              What other underpoles? You kindly do not know the history of Slavic Europe. Read for example Joachim Herrmann.
              1. 0
                17 October 2019 14: 49
                Quote: Wend
                A proverb, or rather prayer, arose when, as I pointed out, in the commentary.

                Try to understand.
                Quote: Wend
                In England there was a curse "What would you see Irish sails in the window!", That's who they feared in England, not the Scandinavians

                So a curse, a proverb, or a prayer? Actually in England or maybe in Scotland or Wales? In which century - in the ninth fifteenth or the eighteenth? For what reason? Maybe about the Irish raid on the coast of Wales in the XNUMXth century? By the way, how do you like this old English proverb: "Do not be afraid of the Irish on the doorstep, be afraid of the Norwegian overseas." Shall we study history according to proverbs?
                Now about the Vikings.
                What they were called then and are called now is not so important for me personally: Vikings (from the Scandinavian "Vick" - a campaign or, perhaps, a city), Normans (do you need to explain the etymology? smile ), pirates, kings of the sea and other kennings. It is important that the sources that are different in place and time of origin call the same phenomenon. Unfortunately, there was no way for the ancient chroniclers to agree on the terminology among themselves, therefore they wrote about the same phenomenon in different words, you should understand this.
                Of the literature you listed, I read only Morton and then for a long time. I decided to refresh my memory and here’s what I found, and right away:
                “18 of June 793,” the chronicle says, “the pagans subjected the church of God in Lindisfarne to terrible destruction by robbery and murder."
                This short entry opens a narrative of disasters and battles that lasted about 300 years, during which foreigners captured half of England, and the Scandinavians and their customs left an indelible mark on this country. The invaders were called by the common name "Danes" or "Scandinavians"; the two Scandinavian peoples who were here in mind mainly were so related to each other, and their movements were so closely intertwined that it is not always possible to say with certainty which one we are facing in each individual case. Their army, in all likelihood, was often mixed in composition, but mostly the Danes invaded England, and the Norwegians invaded Ireland and Scotland. Although these peoples in a number of aspects stood at a lower stage of development than the Anglo-Saxons, they possessed one art that made them the most dangerous enemies.

                Source: https://historylib.org/historybooks/A--L--Morton-_Istoriya-Anglii/9
                I suspect that the other sources you cited are waiting for you the same, as it were, failure. I would venture to suggest that you yourself did not read them, but write about them from someone else’s words, possibly from the Klesian creations or the Great Guru himself.
                Quote: Wend
                What other underpoles? You kindly do not know the history of Slavic Europe.

                I think I know the history of Slavic Europe, at least not worse than you. This, of course, concerns objective history, and not "patriotic", in which I am not strong.
                I don’t know if I need to explain to you that in ancient times the Slavs were divided into three main branches - eastern, western and southern. So, the Slav and Baltic Slavs, all kinds of Lutichs, Bodrichs and others, belonged to the Western group - the same as the Poles, Czechs, etc. By the way, Novgorod Slovenia and Krivichi are also originally from there. But the meadow, Drevlyane, Vyatichi and others. - To the east, that is, much more distant relatives.
                I called the Baltic Slavs under-Polish because they, in fact, represented a single ethnic group with future Poles at that time and could well have developed circumstances in a different way, or to have become part of the Polish state painlessly, or created their own and preserved their linguistic and national identity, having stood in front of the Germans.
                Did not work out. Failed. They could not resist. Unlike the Poles, who could. Therefore, the "non-Poles".
                By the way, the Prussians, to whom our local "patriots" from history are so fond of attributing the origin of the word "rus", are not Slavs at all, but the Balts (relatives, of course, but very distant). smile
                Your Slavic-patriotic frenzy in the study of history, of course, does honor your civic position, but in the most deplorable way compromises your ability as an objective researcher, unfortunately.
                1. +4
                  18 October 2019 10: 20
                  Regarding the proverb and prayer, this was not written for you, I apologize for the oversight. History is studied according to all available and known facts. The question is interpretation. Nothing arises from nothing and disappears into nowhere. Everything has real facts under it. This proverb shows that Europe was not only trembling before the Scandinavians. According to the Dutch documents, the Lutichs with the Saxons robbed the British island from the time of Henga (a) hundred and Horse (s).
                  Regarding the books I have indicated, they were read as a consequence of the general orgy about the "Great Scandinavian conquerors of Europe". Specifically, I was interested in the Irish pirates, who appeared before the Scandinavians. Of course, it doesn't matter to you what they called it then and now, because it breaks the general crazy theory about the Scandinavians holding everything at bay. Europe .. Western chroniclers not only use “pagans” (“pagani”), “pirates” (“piratae”), “barbarians” (“barbari”), “plebs impiissima” (“ungodly people”) and specific enumeration of peoples. participants in the attacks on England by ethnic composition, describe not only the Scandinavian tribes, but also mention the Frisians, and also indicate the Vandals, as the inhabitants of the South Baltic were called at that time (Roger Wendoversky, “Flowers of History”, Matthew of Westminster, Matthew of Paris, “Great Chronicle ”) And even directly called Lyutiches and Poles! (“ Church History ”, Orderyk Vitaly).
                  Now to the posted excerpt from the book to Mr. Morton. In the chronograph describing the attack in Lindisfarne there is not any definition of a people, there are indicated pagans. AND EVERYTHING! There are no Danes or Scandinavians there. Do not believe me, look at the original text in Latin. Many of my colleagues commit such fraud laughing
                  Warning your question, because the people of your flight ask the same questions, not only the Scandinavians pirated in those days. Frisians, Ests, Slavs, Curonians and birch bark beetles were hunted by this business (it is not possible to determine who this is).
                  Then they begin to stress that later Ireland was plundered by the Scandinavians.
                  So in the 795 year, Ireland was devastated. For the Irish, the conquerors were either strangers or the attackers were from different nations. So they designated the same army in three terms. “White Aliens (Fion-Gul)”, “Black Aliens (Dubh-Gal)” and “Island Aliens (Innis_Gal).
                  Scandinavian founders of Dublin. According to the Irish annals, the founder of the fortress in Dublin was Turgesius, or Turgeys - a semi-legendary character, the names bear little resemblance to the Scandinavian ones. But in the sagas written later appears Torgils.
                  And finally, let's turn to archeology, supposedly a lot of Scandinavian weapons were found. Swedish historian Eric Nyulen “The three main weapons were the sword, ax and spear. They are often considered to be specifically northern, "Norman"; but in reality this armament is pan-European. ”
                  Moreover, a young science based on DNA is now gaining experience. So, not only Scandinavians, even Persians are found in the burials of the "Vikings". I understand that it is too early to stake on this, but this, along with archeology, greatly undermines the "Scandinavian theory"
                  Polish archaeologist Leszek Gardela identified the remains of a woman found many years ago in a Viking cemetery on the Danish island of Langeland. A woman warrior from one of the Slavic tribes was buried in the grave.
                  Science in Poland talks about the discovery. Dr. Leszek Gardela was able to identify the remains, first of all, by the typical Slavic ax found in the grave. It is amazing how researchers did not notice this before.
                  You know, to reduce the Western Slavs to the Pole is stupid and stupid. If you were a historian, I would say unprofessionally. And so ... Moreover, the different Slavic tribes were included in the composition of different peoples. For example, the composition of the Franks, Danes, even the Swedes and Norwegians. Archeology eloquently speaks of the Slavic footprint throughout Europe and Scandinavia.
                  Summarizing what was said, I would like to say that blind faith in historical books can only be dispelled with the reading of chronographs.
                  1. +2
                    18 October 2019 18: 33
                    Pretty boy! good
                    According to the article, Sasha Samsonov is an ardent Russophile and loves his people very much. In places, too frivolously interprets history, to the delight of the Normanists. What are they glad.
                    Here, rarely can anyone answer them reasonably. Thank you for that. hi
          2. +2
            16 October 2019 23: 52
            Apparently the area of ​​Denlo or dates. Danelagen; English Danelaw was formed in England after the conquest of the Danes by the Irish; English Is Danegeld the Irish name for the tribute paid by the English kings, apparently also of Ireland? Yes, and the Normandy province in France is just a name or Rollo Pedestrian still chopped it off from Karl Prostovaty, and before that it was called Lugundum like. And they weren’t afraid, yes.
          3. -1
            17 October 2019 01: 33
            Well, don't tell me .. And the prayer "Save us from the fury of the Norman" from the 8th to the 11th century, all Western Yavropa, writing out of fear, repeated this prayer
            1. +1
              17 October 2019 10: 30
              Quote: alexey alexeyev_2
              Well, don't tell me .. And the prayer "Save us from the fury of the Norman" from the 8th to the 11th century, all Western Yavropa, writing out of fear, repeated this prayer

              Do you think so? Well, many ancient chroniclers will disagree with you. For example, listing the participants in the attacks on England by ethnic composition, they describe not only the Scandinavian tribes, but also mention the Frisians, and also indicate the Vandals, as the inhabitants of the Southern Baltic were called at that time (Roger Wendover, “Flowers of History”, Matthew Westminster, Matthew Paris, “ Great Chronicle ”), and even directly called Lyutich and Poles! (“Church History”, Order Vitaliy). And the Anglo-Saxon and early Frankish annals are known as “pagans” (“pagani”), “pirates” (“piratae”), “barbarians” (“barbari”).
              1. -1
                17 October 2019 23: 38
                I'm embarrassed to ask ... And what languages ​​did all the tribes listed by you speak ... Since you mentioned the phrase "ethnic composition"
                1. 0
                  18 October 2019 09: 38
                  Quote: alexey alexeyev_2
                  I'm embarrassed to ask ... And what languages ​​did all the tribes listed by you speak ... Since you mentioned the phrase "ethnic composition"

                  Feel shy laughing Chronists are silent about this, but given the presence of unions among the different peoples of Europe mentioned by different chroniclers, I think they could agree. Moreover, the opportunity for this was, because the common language for the Christian states and peoples who adopted Christianity was the Latin language.
                  1. 0
                    18 October 2019 12: 58
                    Well, you are driving me into the paint ... At that time, classical Latin was the destiny of only a small number of learned men, and the people did not use the vulgar so-called Latin .. Well, you probably know that Dante was the first compiler of the Cuman dictionary. Why did he need this? Where are the lousy nomads and where is Italy .. But it wasn’t too lazy .. made up ..
                    1. +1
                      18 October 2019 17: 00
                      Quote: alexey alexeyev_2
                      Well, you are driving me into the paint ... At that time, classical Latin was the destiny of only a small number of learned men, and the people did not use the vulgar so-called Latin .. Well, you probably know that Dante was the first compiler of the Cuman dictionary. Why did he need this? Where are the lousy nomads and where is Italy .. But it wasn’t too lazy .. made up ..

                      All Western chronographs and "Acts of the Danes" are recorded in Latin. It all came down to the Christian church and its ministers. They have always been in the capacity of translators and chroniclers. I could be wrong, for example, the official Swedish language took shape in the 15-16th century.
                      1. 0
                        19 October 2019 00: 55
                        The fact that they are written in Latin does not mean anything. At that time Europe spoke Rustico Romano With a few exceptions .. The Basque language is still a mystery ... Rustico was considered a rough rural dialect ... But it was spoken by the whole of Europe. And everyone understood each other .. The greatest connoisseur of the Russian language, A. Pushkin, did not accidentally put the epigraph to Eugene Onegin "O, Rus", that is, the village .. By the way, Alexander Sergeich is a genius Slavist .. He felt the shades of different Slavic dialects. Surely the nanny's lessons did not go to waste. On one occasion he pinched Prosper Merimee in forging his songs of the Western Slavs. You are mistaken with Swedish. Even Peter the first communicated with the captured Swedish generals without an interpreter. And Charles the Twelfth in general, during the Turkish honorary captivity, turned to the Mazepa Cossacks without translator and they understood him. By the way, the capital of Sweden in diplomatic correspondence was called -Stekolnaya. In fact, all European languages ​​began to form somewhere in the 17th century. French is based on the Provencal dialect after the Resilier reform, and it is quite possible that D Artagnan cackled about the way the Croatians are now trying. English -after the reform of Elizabeth. By the way, Ivan the Terrible called her
                        pliable girl .. in official diplomatic correspondence !!! German-after the reform of Luther ..... If you are interested in Google to help .. Although, as I understand it, you are from the Pepsi generation
                      2. 0
                        21 October 2019 10: 35
                        Quote: alexey alexeyev_2
                        The fact that they are written in Latin does not mean anything. At that time Europe spoke Rustico Romano With a few exceptions .. The Basque language is still a mystery ... Rustico was considered a rough rural dialect ... But it was spoken by the whole of Europe. And everyone understood each other .. The greatest connoisseur of the Russian language, A. Pushkin, did not accidentally put the epigraph to Eugene Onegin "O, Rus", that is, the village .. By the way, Alexander Sergeich is a genius Slavist .. He felt the shades of different Slavic dialects. Surely the nanny's lessons did not go to waste. On one occasion he pinched Prosper Merimee in forging his songs of the Western Slavs. You are mistaken with Swedish. Even Peter the first communicated with the captured Swedish generals without an interpreter. And Charles the Twelfth in general, during the Turkish honorary captivity, turned to the Mazepa Cossacks without translator and they understood him. By the way, the capital of Sweden in diplomatic correspondence was called -Stekolnaya. In fact, all European languages ​​began to form somewhere in the 17th century. French is based on the Provencal dialect after the Resilier reform, and it is quite possible that D Artagnan cackled about the way the Croatians are now trying. English -after the reform of Elizabeth. By the way, Ivan the Terrible called her
                        pliable girl .. in official diplomatic correspondence !!! German-after the reform of Luther ..... If you are interested in Google to help .. Although, as I understand it, you are from the Pepsi generation

                        Google is not an authority for me))) Thanks for the Pepsi generation, I felt a little younger))) The definition of the language that the whole of Europe supposedly spoke began around the 16th century. According to the documents of the Roman Catholic Church, it turns out that the overwhelming majority of the population of Italy in other countries in the 16th century used the so-called language "rustico romano". Probably they could have used it at an earlier time, but for example I do not know the data about this.
          4. 0
            19 October 2019 01: 41
            Quote: Wend
            And all Europe before the Scandinavians is not a shiver

            In general, I agree. It’s just that Europe has long had an excellent antidote against the Vikings - horse knight squads. And that is why the Vikings raid was primarily a sudden pirate attack on undisguised settlements - it captured, plundered and fled.
          5. -2
            19 October 2019 14: 42
            "There was a curse in England" What would you see Irish sails in the window! "////
            ----
            Ireland at that time was captured by the Scandinavians.
            So the "Irish sails" are the sails of the Vikings.
        2. 0
          19 October 2019 01: 39
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          In short, the author wants to present us with the usual Scandinavian raids, which then affected all of Europe, as organized military campaigns subordinated to a single political and strategic plan during the organized struggle of the Russian-Byzantine coalition against its southern and eastern neighbors. At the same time, for some reason, nothing was said about the raids of Russia (not the state, but the Scandinavian sailors) on the same Byzantium. They didn’t care who to rob.

          In fact, everything was more complicated there. Even in the raids on England there was a system, and on long-distance expeditions across the Baltic Sea, across the vast Russian plain to the Caspian, there was clearly an organization.
          1. 0
            22 October 2019 22: 28
            Well, what’s it, speak directly - the General Staff, led by Marshall Hrorekr.
            Maps, plans, disposition, deployment, two left. Pay for the first second! Sergeant Hrodgar, where is your platoon? Catch up with ...
        3. 0
          22 October 2019 22: 24
          You're lying, as usual.
      2. -1
        16 October 2019 13: 15
        This is true, but for the Trilobites, the Arab chroniclers are not authority, alas. As well as the presence of the "Russian Kaganate" according to the testimony of the Arabs (it does not matter under whose rule - the Varangians, Normans or Slavs - this is a different matter) - also means nothing to them. “There was no organized military force in Russia and that's it!” - and here, at least a stake on the head of such an “academician,” everything is useless.
        1. +3
          16 October 2019 13: 36
          Trilobites all suffer from dyslexia as one - they do not understand the meaning of what is written: in the Bertin annals it is clearly said about the Swedes' attempt to deceive Louis for free with a version cobbled together on their knees that they are some kind of "Ross led by a khan"; from which Russophobes make a profound conclusion about the existence of the "Russian state" - a neighbor of Byzantium in 839.

          After which the trilobites begin to rave about the "Scandinavian Ross, headed by the khan" laughing
          1. 0
            16 October 2019 15: 33
            Quote: Operator
            knuckled version

            You said it well, you can immediately see the expert and craftsman.
            In 839, a group of international swindlers-swindlers arrived at the imperial court in Constantinople, who assumed the status of diplomatic workers. Having nailed one emperor, they say, we are from such a state, "the kaganate of the dews", you do not know about him, but it is very powerful, they decide not to limit themselves to what has been achieved and also to steam the second one. We got a letter from Philotheus, I suppose they cut some more money for the road, and to Louis. And he turned out to be not a mistake, saw through them by the Sveonsky accent, deprived of diplomatic immunity and ... then the story is silent, but however, it is clear that the Scandinavian fraudsters received their well-deserved punishment. What was done with them in the dungeons of Aachen, while the West Slavic Rus were tirelessly building a state in the East Slavic Krivichi, we better not know the glades and slovens. But since then, the "Sveons", who looked at this blissful process from the Aachen prison window, and their heirs, overwhelmed by fierce envy and anger, have been climbing with their "knee-bound versions" that they are the founders of the ancient Russian state ...
            - probably in your opinion our real, true and patriotic story looks like. smile fool
    3. -1
      16 October 2019 13: 22
      Yes of course! How then without TRACKS? Just think, a thousand years have passed. Otherwise, they will announce a fake. I’m holding a clay tablet in my hands: it says: I, Kagan of Khazarsky, in agreement with Beck and at the behest of the people of Itil, ordered my faithful to destroy the obstinate Rus of Helga Konaz, who illegally enriched themselves with booty if the Kaganate’s will was improperly executed. 10th century. Number. Signature. Print. Sapplement: fragments of Helga's sword, a cast of the Russian bast shoe print, plus alcoholized Russian onuchi. Here's a scumbag, to be honest, TRACES serve!
      1. 0
        16 October 2019 21: 38
        Quote: andrew42
        imprint of the print of Russian bast shoes, plus alcoholized Russian onuchi

        with a convoy or something .. although if from birch bark ("birch-footed", "lapotniki")
        it is unlikely that the climate then forced the bast shoes in Russia to weave ... but onuchi ..
        they are enough for a week! There’s no time to spare during fights ...
  3. +2
    16 October 2019 07: 02
    I did not like the article too much. A bunch of facts turned upside down, far-fetched. There is no desire to sort through the items. By the way, it seems that Helgard (Prophetic Oleg) died in Norway in a saga, accidentally tripping over the skull of a horse lying in the grass outside the village when he went hunting. Already in old age.
    1. +1
      16 October 2019 11: 05
      Historians identify or rather correlate the story about Oleg in the PVL with the saga about Odda Orvar (Arrow). The main similarity is death from a snake in the skull of a beloved horse.
  4. +5
    16 October 2019 07: 05
    Interesting story. Corresponds to illustrations Ozhiganova: the same unusual and unprovable ....
  5. +10
    16 October 2019 08: 33
    To put it mildly, an unprovable anti-scientific fiction. Not far from ancient ukrov the author left.
  6. +10
    16 October 2019 08: 53
    The Rus, who carried out expeditions to the Caspian Sea (as well as to the Iberian Peninsula under the leadership of the not-so-famous Askold Dir - this name was worn by one person according to the Arab chronicler of the 9 century), were Western Slavs living in the Baltic, including at the mouth of the Rusa River - Today's Neman (territory of the current Kaliningrad region).

    According to German chroniclers, the Russians aborted merchant ships in the North Sea, starting from the 6 century. According to the Scandinavian chroniclers, the Rus regularly ravaged the Danish settlements on the Jutland coast, starting from the 8 century.

    Russes (Rusichs in local pronunciation) became Eastern Slavs, after the creation of the Russian Land state, headed by the Prince of Western Slavs Rurik with the capital in Novgorod.
    1. +3
      16 October 2019 11: 16
      Quote: Operator
      Russes (Rusichs in local pronunciation) became Eastern Slavs, after the creation of the Russian Land state, headed by the Prince of Western Slavs Rurik with the capital in Novgorod.

      Yes, we know, Prince Gostomysl dreamed on his deathbed that out of ... to avoid the anatomical details, let's say, a spreading tree (probably cranberries) grew up in the lower abdomen of his daughter ... Therefore, they immediately sent messengers to the West (not to the hosts there? wassat ) either to the Poles, or to their siblings, in short to some of these Western ones ... They arrived and their memory disappeared right away, they forgot the way back, they also forgot relatives who remained there in the Kaliningrad region and began to to be friends and relate exclusively with the Scandinavians ...
      And what, the normal version, and linguistically confirmed. There, the Western Slavs still have names: Zdenek, Wojtek, Lelik, Bolik, and of course, Rurik, from the same place. True, there are no other confirmations, but, in fact, why they are needed, and everything is also clear. Lelik, Bolik and Rurik, as required.
      1. +11
        16 October 2019 11: 52
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        Lelik, Bolik and Rurik, as required.

        And also Gagik, Frunzik and Ashot.
    2. +1
      20 October 2019 17: 38
      V. Kozhinov claims that Rurik was invited not to Novgorod, but to Nevogorod (Ladoga), and Lord Veliky Novgorod was founded in the 2nd third of the 10th century. Now I will not say exactly who he refers to, you need to re-read. But he is a solid person, without checking, he would hardly write. And there is a very interesting poem by A.K. Tolstoy "Borivoi". Written in 1870 http://www.world-art.ru/lyric/lyric.php?id=16358. What year does this refer to? As for the vocation of Rurik, one can safely say. And more specifically? Here's something about Arkona. There is a clue. But many, many burned down in the estates after 1905 ...
      1. 0
        23 October 2019 21: 50
        Quote: Nikolai Korovin
        V. Kozhinov claims that Rurik was not invited to Novgorod, but to Nevogorod (Ladoga), and Mr. Veliky Novgorod was founded in the 2-th third of the 10 century.

        By the way, he is not alone. Indeed, it was Ladoga that was the first capital of Norman Russia (to the south were the vast lands of Rus of Khazar), and this is confirmed by archeology - the number of Scandinavian-Viking artifacts in Ladoga is huge, and it is it that the earliest Scandinavian legends mention, and not Novgorod.
  7. The comment was deleted.
    1. +8
      16 October 2019 11: 57
      What is the root of that evil
      I expressed my opinion in a comment.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. +4
                16 October 2019 14: 51
                As Averchenko was there, if I’m not mistaken:

                “Can you shield the shield at your gate?”
                - Yes, stab health, if not laziness. smile
                1. -1
                  17 October 2019 19: 21
                  The question is - why was my comment removed, in which there was nothing else besides the engraving of the famous Russian artist, academician and professor of the Imperial Academy of Arts Fyodor Antonovich Bruni "Prince Oleg nails his shield to the gates of Constantinople?"
                  1. -1
                    17 October 2019 19: 46
                    Difficult to answer, Vic Nikolaitch. request For me, these "dances with tambourines" have always been a great secret. Here, on different branches, there is almost no frank mat, and nothing. There, after all, some comments have been deleted, maybe through negligence "for the company"? I cannot suggest anything else. Even if there is some prejudiced attitude towards you, then F.A. Bruni has nothing to do with it.
    2. -5
      16 October 2019 13: 08
      Yes, that's always the Trilobites in history like this: once, and STE happened! Why? - And because! This is what the "masters of history" think. The fact that the military organization, individual nagging of combat and command, weapons could not appear at Svyatoslav Igorevich with a wave of a magic wand, is not known to the Trilobite Master. There is such a thing called "Military Tradition". Created for GENERATIONS. How many rakes do not give out to the "Khazar tributaries", they will not learn to wave them, to walk in formation too. The Varangian military component is also apparently unknown to the Trilobite Master. It's Rurik - Bolek - Lelek! There was no such thing, because it could not be. Old songs. Moget, since the time of "Khazar insult"?
      1. +2
        16 October 2019 13: 19
        Trilobite is a Tatar, therefore, since the time of insults from Ivan IV bully
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +10
        16 October 2019 13: 32
        Quote: andrew42
        Moget, since the time of "Khazar insult"?

        You would take the trouble to express your thoughts more clearly. I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but if it is correct, then you attribute to me something that I did not say or write. Up to Yaroslav the Wise, the Russian princes were the heirs and bearers of the Scandinavian military culture or "Military tradition", if you like - a fight on foot behind a wall of shields. So Svyatoslav fought (Svendisleiv Ingvarson smile ), so Vladimir and Yaroslav fought. Echoes of this tradition are heard even in the battle on Lipitsa 1216 g., When the Novgorodians abandoned the horses and went on foot on foot.
        So what did you write about? Once again, please and try more clearly.
        And I remembered Lelik and Bolik especially for those who even agree to assert that our first princes were some kind of "non-Poles", almost completely absorbed by the Germans after three hundred years, but not the Swedes, because they are offended.
      3. +6
        16 October 2019 19: 55
        Quote: andrew42
        The fact that Svyatoslav Igorevich, with a wave of a magic wand, could not appear in a military organization, individual skills of conducting combat and command, was unknown to the Trilobite Master.

        Do you think that Svendisleiv Ingvarson is such a "Mowgli" brought up in the forest by bears? Did I understand you correctly?
    3. +4
      16 October 2019 21: 42
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      dependence (psychological or physiological) of the author on publication

      neither the first nor the second.
      His horse-russians, super-russians, gigarussians ... In general, the goal is to prove the existence of the Russian super-civilization many millennia ago (which our "seekers of antiquity" are reproached for)
      therefore, everything is going in that direction.
      Someone is pleased to read his works. They heat up national identity.
    4. 0
      17 October 2019 00: 06
      It is hard to say what makes people come up with similar, very strange theories. I think there is a whole palette of reasons, one is not enough for the formation of such a vigorous mishmash of speculation and stupidity. Rather, option two, exacerbated by the excessive use of psychostimulants of artificial origin and mushroom tincture. Although there are several more adherents of a similar worldview, it is difficult to say whether they use the same substances or a similar effect is achieved by different derivatives.
    5. 0
      17 October 2019 09: 18
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      I wonder what is the root cause of such opuses.

      Exceptionally prophetic dreams after drinking alcohol or eating mushrooms.
  8. +2
    16 October 2019 10: 34
    The pictures are funny, and the article, well, the article, well, people can do it.
    1. +5
      16 October 2019 19: 44
      Quote: Free Wind
      Well, an article, well, it happens to people.

      Passes, unfortunately, not at all.
  9. +6
    16 October 2019 10: 55
    having read the name right away and saw the picture, I realized Samsonov, bullshit wet dreams, we will start and end right away with the fact that all the swords found during archaeological excavations dating from the Middle Ages are German-made before the Urals there was no high-quality iron ore in Russia
  10. +5
    16 October 2019 11: 12
    It seems to me alone that an article on Rus in the Caspian should have been written by Vashchenko or Shpakovsky?)
    1. +9
      16 October 2019 11: 21
      Quote: Engineer
      It seems to me alone that an article on Rus in the Caspian should have been written by Vashchenko or Shpakovsky?)

      Vashchenko or Ryzhov. Vyacheslav Olegovich is more in material culture, but here the specifics are completely different - written sources, events, their sequence, etc.
      1. +4
        16 October 2019 11: 28
        Samsonov Alexander can be sympathetic. I feel that he will get from followers of both folk and traditional history am
        1. +4
          16 October 2019 20: 49
          Quote: Engineer
          Samsonov Alexander can be sympathetic. I feel that he will get from followers of both folk and traditional history am

          Yep two times laughing now the administrative resource will be tightened and we will be allowed to go nuts! wink
          1. +3
            16 October 2019 20: 55
            Yes, everything seems normal for now. The author walked very hard from the very beginning, but it seems that the administrative resource was not involved. I got warnings for less. Until everything is OK.
            1. +4
              16 October 2019 21: 01
              Dear Denis! There is an old parable lived-was in VO Kotische! He didn’t grieve, he caught mice, but he rats. One day, seven bans caught and .....
              now there are no cats, removed from VO without the right to correspondence!
              The author is rumored first-hand people are not bad enough, but the principle of “slippers by the crib” and “licked dishes” has not yet been canceled!
              Regards, Vlad!
              1. +4
                16 October 2019 21: 07
                I myself am a very subjective person. But honestly, I didn't quite understand why such a reaction. This is not the strongest article, but the author was simply trampled upon. I will not say that it is undeserved, but the reaction was just too sharp. Perhaps for the past. I want to say that I do not remember this, especially in the "historical" section where everything is usually more restrained. Strange somehow
                Best regards
            2. 0
              17 October 2019 00: 09
              Samsonov is possible. According to Skomorokhov, try to get so drawn back at the moment of warning, at least.
          2. +4
            16 October 2019 21: 45
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            now the administrative resource will be tightened and we will be allowed to go nuts

            I was somehow slapped "for disrespect to the author."
            apparently you can not criticize. It's a shame to them.
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            One day, seven bans caught and .....
            now there are no cats, removed from VO without the right to correspondence!

            apparently before that he had three ... (10 seems to be needed for annihilation)
            my record is 4 in one day, one article.
            But this is politics ... (must be pronounced as in the movie Neighbor)
      2. +8
        16 October 2019 11: 32
        Now I looked at the search there are quite decent articles on VO Oleinikov and Ryzhov on the topic of "Rus". It is a pity that they did not become a kind of standard for other authors.
        1. +7
          16 October 2019 12: 00
          Denis hi
          You still have a look at the section "About the edition", you will get really sick.
          1. +4
            16 October 2019 12: 10
            I’m probably stupid, but I don’t understand what kind of section this is)
            1. +8
              16 October 2019 12: 21
              If you "use" from a computer: the slider to the very bottom, there in the "basement" is the "User" column (which, as a rule, is not paid attention to), in it is the desired section. Ask the author's status and then
              Quote: Engineer
              can sympathize
              will be to us all.
              1. +6
                16 October 2019 12: 27
                Found.
                But in fairness, I must say that the author’s specialized articles about WWI do not cause rejection for me (but not those articles where the author heavily interferes with the theory of conspiracy and treacherous Anglo-Saxons.). Perhaps simply because I am not competent in this matter).
                1. +6
                  16 October 2019 12: 57
                  Quote: Engineer
                  heavily interferes with the theory of conspiracy and treacherous Anglo-Saxons

                  Oh it is without a doubt! Perhaps only the geographical direction of the movement of the heroes of the article prevented the author from inserting a couple of sacramental phrases about the evil Masters of the West.
                  1. +6
                    16 October 2019 13: 07
                    As can be assumed, the Masters of the West at that time clustered in the Khazaria, who converted to Judaism. Alexander made a hint to thoughtful readers, but could not formulate his idea directly. Perhaps, after countless revelations on the pages of VO, these same "owners" made our author an unequivocal suggestion that they would no longer tolerate their schemes to be revealed with such ease and convincingness. We should support Alexander in an unequal struggle. No more derogatory comments from me under this article).
                    1. +4
                      16 October 2019 20: 51
                      Good evening!
                      It's easier to be friends against someone than just like that!
                  2. +3
                    16 October 2019 21: 50
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    Perhaps only the geographical direction of the movement of the heroes of the article prevented the author from inserting a couple of sacramental phrases about the evil Masters of the West.

                    nothing like this.
                    In the article itself, the thread is unstoppable (when the connection between Byzantium and Russia, Khazaria and the Arabs is described)
                    and traces of the "Damned West" ...
                    It’s just that the Anglo-Saxons have not yet begun .. But the machinations have already been tried. laughing
              2. The comment was deleted.
  11. +3
    16 October 2019 12: 56
    With all due respect to Alexander Samsonov, I dare to note that the historical outline of events seems to me pretty twisted. Christian Byzantium could not be a tactical ally of the Jewish Khazaria in the 9-10th centuries, since the 9th century is already a dense rule of the Jewish elite, the Obadia coup took place long ago. It is logical, on the contrary, that the Byzantines considered the Khazar Kaganate as an enemy, with whom they played politically in the presence of a predator more dangerous for the Byzantines - the Caliphate. Plus, the author himself draws attention to the fact that Muslim soldiers constituted the majority of the professional army of the Kaganate. The relationship of Byzantium and the Kaganate is "the enemy and the enemy of the enemy at the same time." The passage of the Rus troops through the Kaganate, by the "order" of the Romans, is something unimaginable. If the Romans had a real tactical alliance with Khazaria against the Caliphate, then the Russians would not be needed by Constantinople from the word "in general". So the "Gumilevskaya" (or whatever else it is called) interpretation of the Rus campaigns to the Caspian Sea looks more plausible: it is a "Tribute in blood", a tribute of the Rus to the Kagan, and the reprisal of the Khazar employer against mercenaries "involuntarily" who have become unnecessary and who can not pay - the classic write-off of consumables, very Jewish. And Byzantium hardly has anything to do with the Rus campaigns to the Caspian Sea, for the Romans it would have been just a fortunate coincidence.
    1. +1
      16 October 2019 14: 52
      Dear connoisseur of Judaism, would you be so kind as to enlighten about the "classic write-off of consumables, very Jewish"? Where and in what treatise is it said and explained?
      1. +4
        16 October 2019 15: 49
        Well, what about?
        "Israeli," I say, "the military
        Known to the whole world!
        Like a mother, I say, and like a woman
        I demand them to answer! " laughing
        1. 0
          19 October 2019 22: 41
          Well, this is all nonsense. In fact, there never was such a meeting. The referent could not confuse anything - it is more expensive for himself. And then, correctly not "Known", but "Known". But why was the good King Saul removed? Exactly - as it became objectionable, so it was removed. But how kind he was! So Orakul2000 is indignant in vain. Was the case - the king was removed?
      2. +4
        16 October 2019 18: 31
        Yes, I can easily explain. In the art of managing money, the Jews have no equal and never had. From Carolingian France to the Arabian East. It happened historically. Money perfectly knew how to count at all times, and know how. Therefore, the elimination of mercenaries is a logical move. Therefore, for the "Russian squad" it was a kidok, and for Itil it was quite a reasonable action in his own interests. And there is no need to include your resentments here, there is no denial of the Holocaust.
        1. +1
          16 October 2019 21: 53
          Quote: andrew42
          Therefore, the elimination of mercenaries is a logical move. Therefore, for the "Russian squad" it was a kidok, and for Itil it was quite a reasonable action in their interests.

          there are many cases in history when we leave mercenaries who have not yet been paid (but have already used them) and hire new mercenaries in order to cope with the first. As a result, it was usually necessary to pay less. As far as I remember, Carthage became so famous for it. It only turned out badly in the end ...
          One of the battles of the detachments could inflate to a key event.
          usually from ordinary cases in history, historians make Hollywood. According to its scenario and with advertising. Especially if there are no direct sources. And indirect ones are easy to interpret in their favor.
    2. 0
      19 October 2019 22: 32
      This comment is more consistent with the interpretation of events by V. Kozhinov than the presentation of the author. Indeed, the author seems to have mixed up a little with the relationship between Russia, Byzantium and Kaganate.
  12. +7
    16 October 2019 13: 26
    hard to read when paragraphs are often repeated, only in different words. And I would like to know on the basis of what sources this story was compiled ..
    1. +6
      16 October 2019 15: 53
      "World history as presented by the Satyricon"?
    2. +3
      16 October 2019 20: 53
      Dreaming is not harmful, it is harmful not to dream!
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    1. +5
      20 October 2019 20: 12
      T.N. Caucasian Albania: from the figurative meaning of the Latin word alba - "white" meaning "free". The Romans and Byzantines gave the name Albania to the zones of free tribes (mainly mountain ones), which were not subject to the power of any state formation:
      - Scottish Albania;
      - Balkan Albania;
      - Caucasian Albania;
      - White Croats (Sudeten Slavic tribes before moving to the Balkans).

      The zone of Caucasian Albania was limited to Dagestan, Chechnya, Ingushetia and Azerbaijan. The unification of the tribes existed in this zone from 1 to 5 century of our era and then was conquered by Armenians in the west and Persians in the east.

      The ethnic composition of Caucasian Albania was mainly represented by the Northern Semites (carriers of the haplogroup J2), their native language is Nakh, religion is paganism. After the conquest, the western tribes switched to Armenian, the eastern tribes to Persian. After the next conquest by the Khazars, the tribes converted to Judaism, after the conquest by the Arabs - into Islam, after the conquest by the Turks, the southeastern tribes switched to the Turkic language (current Azerbaijanis).

      The modern population of the former Caucasian Albania, having preserved their native language, are Chechens, Ingush and some small peoples of Dagestan.
      1. 0
        21 October 2019 19: 09
        Quote: Operator
        After the conquest, the western tribes switched to Armenian, the eastern tribes to Persian. After the next conquest by the Khazars, the tribes converted to Judaism, after the conquest by the Arabs - into Islam, after the conquest by the Turks, the southeastern tribes switched to the Turkic language (current Azerbaijanis).

        I read with Zia Buniatova that in the beginning there was a community of 26 Gargar tribes (if I do not confuse) ...
        Well, we consider them Udis ... Our brothers were ... by faith, by custom ... Our Mesrop Mashtots composed the alphabet for them (now for some reason they give him Lezgi by their blood).
        A nightmare for Caucasian Albanians occurred during the Byzantine-Persian wars of the first third of the 628th century ... Somewhere in the year XNUMX ... The Byzantine allies who flooded there, slaughtered the autochthonous population of Caucasian Albania ... The countries that survived in the west were mainly accepted our Gregorian faith and gradually assimilated ... The remaining survivors of the eastern part were assimilated by numerous subsequent conquerors ...
  17. +2
    19 October 2019 01: 57
    Yes, for a long time I did not go to VO, and just some kind of horror in the historical section.

    Quote: Samsonov Alexander
    In the hands of the Volga Bulgars and Burtases, tributaries of the Khazars, there were ways along the Oka and the Middle Volga. It was impossible to go to the Caspian Sea, Transcaucasia and further to the countries of Near and Central Asia, the Khazar and Bulgarian outposts interfered.
    With each decade, the growing and developing Russian power more acutely felt the isolation from the trade routes leading to the East.
    A simple fact is that the Kiev land was exactly the same province of the Khazars as Bulgaria and Burtasia. One of. Until the time.

    Quote: Samsonov Alexander
    At the end of the VIII - the beginning of the IX century, Russia became a formidable force in the region. The second Rome tried to use the Rus in the fight against the Arabs. Khazaria at that time weakened.
    Sorry, but the author does not know the most basic things - incl. from the Khazar history. Just at this time - the beginning of the heyday of the power of Khazaria, which lasted until the middle of the 10th century. "The Reconquista of Prince Oleg" ended sadly and with nothing. Apparently, after the initial victories, he was forced to become a vassal of the kagan, and his life path in general ended somewhere in Moravia, where he was forced to flee after the defeat of his campaign to the Caspian.

    Quote: Samsonov Alexander
    Khazaria in this military operation acted as a tactical ally of Russia, as it was bound by obligations to the Byzantines.
    Khazaria then was not an ally of Russia, but a suzerain who sent his mercenaries-Rus and the "hunters" who joined them to the hostile lands of the Caliphate. And then they just took and "threw" their type of allies-vassals, who were weakened by losses and at the same time carried a lot of valuable trophies ...
    1. 0
      20 October 2019 17: 52
      In general, it is difficult to argue. Only
      A simple fact is that the Kiev land was exactly the same province of the Khazars as Bulgaria and Burtasia. One of. Until the time.

      “Well, probably still not exactly the same.” Significantly more restless and causing a kagan-bek a lot of trouble.
      1. 0
        23 October 2019 22: 04
        Quote: Nikolai Korovin
        well, probably still not exactly the same. Significantly more restless and causing a kagan-bek a lot of trouble.

        I understand that there is trouble with the Khazar history, and even more so among the visitors of the site "VO", but still. In general, for simplicity, in a nutshell - conditionally Kiev Rus ("Podkhazar", in fact, vast territories of the Eastern Slavs from the Carpathian region in the west and the Volga-Oka interfluve in the north to the basin of the middle Volga) - did not cause much trouble to the Khazars. Any attempts to cause something were destroyed at the root by the huge army of the Kaganate, which included heavily armed cataphracts "Al-Larissiyya" from Muslim mercenaries and even heavily armed infantry from the Vikings / Slavs "Askar al-Sakaliba" (modeled on the "etherea" among which the Byzantine army) apparently there were even those who converted to Judaism.

        It was conditionally "Russia of Askold" (and Dir?). Kiev was then a large multicultural trading post on the Dnieper. This Russia supplied various things to the indigenous lands of the Kaganate in the form of tribute and mercenaries / volunteers / forcibly collected soldiers.

        But there was also "Rus of Rurik", centered in Ladoga and Novgorod - that, yes, supplied Khazaria with problems in the main. It even led to an extensive war, conventionally called the "Reconquista of Prince Oleg". With which the kaganate as a whole successfully dealt with at that time.

        And until these centers were united (and other tribes were not attached to them, such as the Radimichi and Vyatichi along the Volga and Oka), there was no serious threat to Khazaria.

        In general, during the 7-9 centuries. for Khazaria, the main problem was the war with the Arab caliphate and the issue of opposing the waves of nomads coming from the steppes of the Urals due to the Lower Volga, and the Slavic-Russ tribes were generally simple and reliable suppliers of everything (from furs to slaves and slaves).

        The problems of the Khazars began with the unification (as usual by force, but objectively true) of the East Slavic tribes, when Novgorod merged with Kiev, and then other centers were also annexed. And yes, it was gradually becoming more or less tolerant, but from the beginning to the middle of the 10 century, management problems began to grow due to the increasingly gaining strength of United Russia. The result - an unexpected and unique operation by Prince Svyatoslav brought success and the defeat of the main centers of the khanate.

        Moreover, how this happened in the operational and tactical plan is still unclear due to the scarcity of written sources (the Slavs-Russians in the era of Svyatoslav had no cavalry, all the more difficult, and it is not clear how they lured and neutralized the mobile field forces of the kaganate, while unexpectedly the rook army descended from the north from the Volga destroyed the metropolitan centers).
  18. 0
    2 December 2019 11: 19
    Oooh ... Another dose of folk fantasy. fellow
  19. -1
    27 December 2019 11: 17
    Quote: Undecim
    but where are the facts on which it rests?
    Judging by the theory, its source is Papaver somniferum.
    As a result, the author’s vision of history has this form.

    In fact, in Russia, moose were called "elephants", so ... "Russia is the homeland of elephants" is unambiguous)))