In search of the "macaroni substitute": about modern Russian pistols

Back in the early 90 of the last century, the Makarov pistol - PM, which for many years was in the arsenal of the Soviet army, and then the Russian army, was recognized obsolete and began to look for a more powerful and modern replacement for it. As they say on the net: in search of a "macaroni substitute."

Legendary PM

Over the past period, such models of short-barreled weaponslike Yarygin’s pistol (ПЯ), GSh-18 pistol, Serdyukov’s self-loading pistol (SPS), Lebedev’s pistol (PL-14), Swift’s bezurkovy automatic pistol, PSS-2 Vul’s unique silent pistol and other small arms, often distinguished by a non-standard approach to the project on the part of gunsmiths.

Weapons expert Andrei Ulanov in the next plot on the channel "TacticMedia" will analyze history the appearance of modern models of short-barreled weapons, starting from the 80 of the 20 century.

He will tell you why the Russian security forces have been trying for almost twenty years to find a replacement for Makarov’s pistol and why they did not like the legendary short-barreled classic. The expert will also stop at more modern and advanced pistols, which are now armed with law enforcement agencies and can become a worthy replacement for the PM itself, which is declared morally obsolete.

Comments

[Terenin]

I can’t say anything about new types of pistols. They are certainly better. ... But, I will not forget my "good old" Makarov pistol (PM) with which I served 35 years (in the calendar)
Py.Sy. As the saying goes: "A pistol is only a working tool, a weapon is you yourself"

[novel66]

Gene, the kindest !! Well, is the macarque weak? There was a case, went into the machine, a fighter 6 bullets caught and alive, the chamber is weak

[Terenin]

Quote: novel xnumx

Gene, the kindest !! Well, is the macarque weak? There was a case, went into the machine, a fighter 6 bullets caught and alive, the chamber is weak

Roma Moreover, there was a case of applying PM to a head injury from three meters, and the bullet bounced off the forehead ... But, "knocked out".

[Terenin]

Quote: novel xnumx

went into the machine

Roma but do not whisper a single fire to file for competitions in bullet shooting. We indulged in this. Sinful

[novel66]

I don’t know for sure, the case was on the lip, the patrol delivered a violent Georgian fighter, yelled noisy, kicked the door, then asked for the pot, and then the chief, who told him “if anything, I’ll throw it down” pulled the bolt and went merry - the whole clip was automatic ... so that everything was finally clear - this guy decided to clamp the barrel with his hand, the bullets went right through ..

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Terenin

I can’t say anything about new types of pistols. They are certainly better. ... But, I will not forget my "good old" Makarov pistol (PM) with which I served 35 years (in the calendar)
Py.Sy. As the saying goes: "A pistol is only a working tool, a weapon is you yourself"

And someone served with TT or with a gun, they remember how they did not disappoint, and .....? "The doctor said to the morgue, then to the morgue" (from an anecdote)

[Viktor123]

I agree with you. Good old PM. The very last 15 years before being transferred to the reserve passed with the PM release of 1953 of the year. only positive emotions from its exploitation. Centrifuge, short soft descent. Not a single breakdown, not a single misfire.

[Monster_Fat]

Recently, in a military museum in the Finnish Suomenlinna, I saw a Korovin 6.35 mm pistol. I was struck by the highest quality of its finish and coating. Despite the age, the gun looked like new. My Makarov from the service produced in 1964 was also in excellent external condition. This is what the modern Russian pistols that I saw look just look terribly rough exterior finish, low-resistant non-uniform coating, it is simply unpleasant to pick them up - no aesthetic pleasure from the fact that you take this weapon in hand.

[Lexus]

Do not trust your eyes and your hands, but trust the promises. / "Military acceptance", "Nightingale droppings" and Prokopenko

[tetragram]

Makar is an excellent gun, you can upgrade a bit to the requirements of each specific service and operate further.

[Rwmos]

Makar - great!

If I were you, I’ll get drunk!
You would be in my place - missed

[Rwmos]

I won’t even say such a drunk

[Avior]

To replace a pistol, you must first clearly articulate his appointment in the army, and there are obvious problems with this

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Avior

To replace a pistol, you must first clearly articulate his appointment in the army, and there are obvious problems with this

This is true. As an option. A pistol for the army: "One in three persons." Requirements for all three "persons" are needed, they are contradictory. Weight, dimensions, combat effectiveness depends on the purpose.
Pistol "wearing peacetime", "military weapon of officers, self-defense", "military weapon of special forces". Ideally, one cartridge, parts and design. Barrel length, magazine capacity, automation, materials vary. Currently, you can leave the PM as a PNMV.

[Nick]

Quote: Avior

To replace a pistol, you must first clearly articulate his appointment in the army, and there are obvious problems with this

Personal weapon of the officer. If you want, then a symbol of the military leader’s power.

[Rwmos]

Guys, and who is real - will they be able to give requirements to the army pistol now? Ideal - APS, about the APB - there are few, but there are ... And I think that they took it in vain
To drag - you are tempted, but it is a weapon. not Makar

[tracer]

An army pistol should conceptually be built on a small-caliber high-speed cartridge. By type FN 5/7 caliber 5.7 × 28. A smaller caliber bullet will have a higher trajectory stability and accuracy, as a result of a lower recoil momentum, and the ammunition in the store will increase significantly as with the Kel Tec PMR 30. The use of different types of bullets with alloy hearts will solve the problem of penetration of protective vests. Based on this cartridge, you can make a compact PP. So something like that ..

[Rwmos]

Tasks? But from aps, with a frame, know?
I personally - I’ll put a Kalashmat

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: tracer

An army pistol should conceptually be built on high speed small caliber cartridge. By type FN 5/7 caliber 5.7 × 28. A smaller caliber bullet will have more high speed trajectory persistence and accuracy, as a result lower recoil momentum, and the ammunition in the store will increase significantly like that of the Kel Tec PMR 30. The use of various types of bullets with hearts made of alloys will solve the problem of penetration of protective vests. Based on this cartridge, you can make a compact PP. So something like that ..

Everything is not simple, but very complicated. Great speed = big boost! Important. Small caliber = light bullet weight = fast loss of speed. For a pistol is not relevant.
“Conceptually, an army pistol should be built according to the requirements of not only combat, but also the total requirements for the pistol, because for a guaranteed, powerful defeat of the enemy, it is enough for officers to issue a machine gun, as it was during the Second World War. And in the Civilian commanders with a rifle in a bayonet went.
Why does an officer need a gun? Shoot at the Germans? No, for this he has a division, a unit. It is a self-defense weapon. He uses it in Bo.Ob. from time to time, to shoot at 200 m, nonsense. But there must be a powerful stopping effect. Why do other "users" need a gun? Same. They have the main weapon, different. Tank, plane, mortar ... Another thing. peacetime, there is no need to carry a heavy "gun" constantly.
CONCLUSION: In peacetime, leave PM, good enough in the army. And for war, create a more powerful, albeit heavier tool.

[tracer]

I gave an example of the FN 5/7 pistol, it is already there. And it is considered the latest "squeak" of fashion. Check out its characteristics.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: tracer

I gave an example of the FN 5/7 pistol, it is already there. And it is considered the latest "squeak" of fashion. Check out its characteristics.

Brutal characteristics for special forces. You think, so what, specifically. "Oh, what kind of woman would I like this"?

[tracer]

Whoever put a minus is simply "KU" (a close-minded bird of the woodpecker family who does not understand anything about weapons).

[Strashila]

Only one thing was correct in the film; the customer or customers do not know what they need. One thing is clear, the caliber is 9 mm, but in what version it is 18 mm or up to 21 mm, no one can really say.
And next compare PM, about PMM in the slip. If we compare the good old grandfather Makarych with newcomers, then you can see the potential for modernization in terms of mass dimensions and barrel length.
I note one thing, we always consider only the gun itself, there are no variations, as the only option, then abroad it is considered as the basis for the production of various modifications united by one concept, for economy during operation.
Here contradictions arise, one thing in the police, another special structure, the third military, the special forces is a completely different story everywhere their requirements, and the gun is one without any possible variations.
Give the students and they will draw you options for the same old man, PM or PMM, preserving, by 80 percent, components, but with different possibilities.
Now the whole essence of these movements is not to save state money, but to turn it into big ones for circulation.

[ssergey1978]

The development of the COP without a civilian market will not be. Example of SAIGI and Tiger. Allow the COP to the citizens and I will draw the optimal COP. IMHO

[Sapsan136]

For me personally, of the pistols created to replace the PM, Berdysh is most attractive and the idea is in it (the possibility of using several types of ammunition when replacing the barrel, making it a more universal weapon) ... A full replacement of the PM with more powerful pistols is not possible at all. replacing the production of a more accurate Baryshev pistol, after a well-known refinement, this will not give an increase in power, only an increase in accuracy. The fact is that the main advantage of the PM is the simplicity of its design, but the use of more powerful cartridges makes its use impossible and leads to a complication of the design ... But the PM cartridge is sufficient for civilian weapons and possibly a police officer, rather weak for military weapons ... It is for the army, because of the weak cartridge, the PM is not suitable ... The army needs a pistol with a more powerful cartridge for hitting targets protected by body armor, and the PM has an insufficient range of fire for an army pistol (50 meters on paper, 25 meters in reality (firing at firing ranges from PM is carried out precisely from 25 meters)

[hhurik]

Curious, who in their right mind would need a gun with THREE barrels for different types of ammunition? How to take all this into account, store, supply and repair - and why, what is the sacred meaning? Holes that PM, that others - do the same. But the weight and size are different.
The pistol is, by and large, a status weapon, showing who is in charge, who, in theory, can ever be useful to someone for their primary purpose (like an obsolete bayonet-knife). Pampering is all this.

[Sapsan136]

A gun is a weapon of last resort, not status. Obviously, for civilians, the police and the army, weapons need different capacities, for different ammunition and tasks ... If the stopping action of a bullet is important for civilians and the police, then for the army the penetrating ability of a bullet ... One pistol can be fired for different ammunition, and this is economically feasible than having pistols of fundamentally different designs in service, for which different parts are needed, the maintenance of which needs to be individually trained shooters

[serge siberian]

An analogue of the PM is IZH -71 by 17, only a bullet made of lead. This is how they designated "civilian (service) weapons. And it has been produced since the 90s. Yes, for each campaigner, this pistol can be made with different bp. In the second half of the 80s at competitions policemen from different countries Czechs fired from PM but took second place with their cartridges.

[Gas smoke protector]

Sumptuously! And only about a year ago they convinced us that they had found a replacement and already rearmament. Again nonsense?

[Basarev]

I predict that with PM it will be like with SVD and AK - until the end of the reign of the person there will be a lot of talk, but no one will take it seriously. Only cut the loot under the gossip about the replacement will be. And in the post-personal period we will enter as an empire in the Crimean.