Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact - an immoral conspiracy or a pact of future Victory over Nazi Europe?

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August 23 2019 marked 80 years since the day the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was signed, which is still a factor in the geopolitical agenda. Since the 80 of the 20 century, the thesis of the immorality of the agreement (in liberal vocabulary - conspiracy) about non-aggression between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany of the 1939 year, its meanness and dishonesty has firmly entered the public consciousness of Soviet citizens (later - Russians). This opinion continues to be expressed by many well-known politicians, historians, public figures, journalists, while not giving a justification for such a position.

Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact - an immoral conspiracy or a pact of future Victory over Nazi Europe?

Stalin and Ribbentrop




The Russian historian Igor Shishkin, the author of the book “The Flawless Pact”, without hiding his point of view, openly considers this international agreement not as a “non-aggression pact,” but as a “fair” treaty whose main purpose was to divide the spheres of influence between Stalin and Hitler. According to Shishkin, this particular document was of decisive importance for the role of the Soviet Union in the Great Victory over Nazi (fascist) Europe in the 1945 year. The very definition of "Nazi Europe" for the 30-40 years is quite appropriate, because in the war of aggression against the USSR, along with the German army, troops of many European states took part.

How did the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact affect the balance of power in the world? Why this particular international agreement is the key link in the revision historical events of the last century? Why is Shishkin sure that the future of the world largely depends on whether we understand this event correctly or not? How did the non-aggression pact between the USSR and Nazi Germany turn into a detonator for the destruction of the British Empire and become a Victory Pact as a result? The answers to these and other questions can be found in the video:

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  1. +18
    14 October 2019 19: 46
    How tired of chewing on this contract.

    That's it.
    1. -9
      14 October 2019 19: 54
      That's it.

      Well, Zionist propaganda, it is, yes ....
      1. +7
        14 October 2019 20: 35
        Quote: lucul
        Well, Zionist propaganda, it is, yes ....

        But now it’s not clear, but what does this have to do with it?
        1. +1
          14 October 2019 22: 58
          They always laughing
          1. +1
            15 October 2019 05: 26
            Quote: Astronaut
            They always

            well, yes, well, yes ... if there is no water in the tap ... and wait, is this a "chapel" they?
            1. 0
              15 October 2019 07: 44
              Quote: svp67
              and "chapel" are they?

              "Not ... They were Arabs in the eighth century."
      2. +2
        14 October 2019 21: 31
        "" "" "" "" Everything I do is directed against Russia; if the West is too stupid and blind to understand this, I will be forced to come to an agreement with the Russians, smash the West, and then, after its defeat, gather my forces and move to the Soviet Union "- Hitler declared on August 11, 1939 to the Swiss diplomat Karl Burckhardt, who at that time he was the High Commissioner of the League of Nations on the issue of Danzig (Polish Gdansk) contested by Germany. The famous German military historian Rolf-Dieter Müller (Enemy in the East: Hitler's Secret Plans to Invade the Soviet Union) quotes this quote in his book.
        And yet .. how can one study the reasons and, the preparation of the ideology of the future Second World War and the roots of national socialism in Germany, with a ban on his program document "..." .. ????
        1. +4
          14 October 2019 22: 00
          Quote: To be or not to be
          Hitler declared on August 11, 1939 to Swiss diplomat Karl Burkhardt

          That’s all right, Stalin counted on the fact that by smashing the West, Hitler would become stuck as in WWII, that the West would give everything up practically without a fight, there was no calculation.
    2. +3
      14 October 2019 20: 35
      Quote: Dart2027
      That's it.

      I wonder why one and the same document is called either a "pact" or a "treaty". Although in official documents it is written everywhere: "Agreement"?
      1. +4
        14 October 2019 22: 58
        Quote: svp67
        I wonder why one and the same document is called either a "pact" or a "treaty".

        Because they want to emphasize that this supposedly was a wrong agreement ... Unlike their agreements.
        1. 0
          15 October 2019 05: 21
          Quote: Dart2027
          Because they want to emphasize that this supposedly was a wrong agreement ... Unlike their agreements.

          Well then, judging by the link provided, then the agreement between Poland and Germany is a pact, that is, WRONG. Why are they silent about this?
          1. +1
            12 November 2019 19: 50
            Quote: svp67
            Why are they silent about this?

            Because they concluded it.
    3. +3
      14 October 2019 21: 17
      No, another plus - this pact and the Axis collapsed. He was imprisoned during the war with Japan ... And Japan was very offended and went not to the Far East, where everyone shoved her - from the USA to Germany. Bam - in one contract - and consider the war and win, what would happen without Siberian and Far East divisions near Moscow in December?
    4. +1
      15 October 2019 04: 27
      For starters, stop calling agreement- a pact.
    5. -12
      12 November 2019 18: 55
      Everyone is talking about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact for one single reason: it was after the signing of this pact that World War II began.
      For some reason, the signing of other treaties by other countries did not lead to such a result.
      1. -2
        25 November 2019 14: 05
        Munich agreement. Teach a materiel!
  2. -5
    14 October 2019 20: 05
    Yes, they really pulled up already to cover up their gates, soiled with tar, with one spoonful of sour cream ("the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact"). And when you poke their noses in their "pranks", they pretend to be a little self-saleswoman from the XNUMXth century, when she sees the abbreviation "STD" - "What is it? And, in any case, it does not concern me."
    1. +2
      15 October 2019 00: 57
      Since this pact is so "criminal", historical justice must be restored. By all means!
      The main beneficiary is today's Ukraine, which owns the lands "squeezed out" by Stalin in Poland, Slovakia, and Romania. So let Ukraine return these territories to its neighbors. After all, they were connected "criminally".
      And it looks like this.
      Someone took the wallet from a citizen and gave it to me. Time passed, someone died, and I, emboldened, began to curse and condemn at all corners of the robber (and in fact, my benefactor). But when they say to me, they say, it’s good that you so vehemently condemn the criminal, but if you want to return the wallet taken by him to the victim, I begin to shout in response that I will not give anything to the victim. I need his money more!
      Here is such a paradox. I condemn the offender with foam at the mouth, but I want to use the fruits of the crime and will use it.

      The same applies to Lithuania. From Poland was taken away and the Lithuanians were "cut" what they would never have received from the Poles in their lives. And now these ungrateful ones are cursing Comrade Stalin at every corner, instead of thanking him for returning them their ancestral lands, once taken away by Poland.
      1. -1
        15 October 2019 05: 07
        The territory of Ukraine without Crimea (transferred to it in 1954) is 576 700 km².
        Of them :
        a) The liberation campaign of the Red Army in Poland - 196 000 km².
        b) Bessarabian operation - 50 762 km².
        c) Agreement on the entry of the former Subcarpathian Rus into the Ukrainian SSR - 12 753 km².

        Total: 259 515 km² was "criminally" slaughtered by Comrade Stalin in Ukraine in three stages, of which 246 762 km² (from 576 700 km²) - as part of the reaping of the fruits of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
        1. -1
          15 October 2019 19: 41
          Quote: Comrade
          Territory of Ukraine

      2. 0
        13 November 2019 05: 29
        Quote: Comrade
        The main beneficiary is today's Ukraine, which owns the lands "squeezed out" by Stalin in Poland, Slovakia, and Romania.
        Not only but also the Baltic countries. We should remember who then belonged to Vilnius
  3. +2
    14 October 2019 20: 11
    "In favor of the Soviets, it must be said that it was vital for the Soviet Union to push as far west as possible the starting positions of the German armies ... If their policy was coldly calculating, it was also ... highly realistic."
    W. Churchill.
    1. +2
      14 October 2019 21: 49
      Like the policies of states in Europe, and not only ... With wolves live, howl like a wolf.
  4. +3
    14 October 2019 20: 18
    If there weren’t the Molotov-Rebbentrop Pact, Japan would have entered the war against the USSR, like Germany 22 on June 1941. This saved the Soviet Union.
    1. +1
      14 October 2019 20: 37
      Quote: tihonmarine
      If there weren’t the Molotov-Rebbentrop Pact, Japan would have entered the war against the USSR, like Germany 22 on June 1941. This saved the Soviet Union.

      In full it can be ... Really demonstrative signing of this treaty, at the moment when Japan was "kicked in the neck" on Halkin Gol, it was certainly not comme il faut, from the point of view of the imperial officials and the Emperor of Japan himself
      1. +3
        14 October 2019 20: 54
        Quote: svp67
        Really demonstrative signing of this treaty, at the moment when Japan was "slapped in the neck" on Halkin Gol

        Of course, it was sobering, but also alarming, the main ally and suddenly betrayed. And when the war began, Opanasenko sent almost all of the DCK troops to the Western Front twice, but did not expose the front line. Everything went to the West, all weapons remained from the time of the Civil War. But the forces were sent large, which did not allow Hitler to break through to Moscow. Yes, everyone knows this is not worse than mine.
        1. +2
          14 October 2019 21: 12
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Everything went to the West, all weapons remained from the time of the Civil War.

          Well, like the T-26, BT-5 and 7 tanks, the I-16, I-153, LaGG-3 and so on and so forth ... were not used in the Civil ...
    2. 0
      15 October 2019 04: 09
      Quote: tihonmarine
      If there were no Molotov-Rebbentrop Pact, Japan would enter the war against the USSR, as Germany did on June 22, 1941.

      ... and Hitler would start to Leningrad not from the eastern borders of Poland, but from the eastern borders of Estonia and it is not a fact that he would not take him on the move like Minsk and Vilnius. I would connect with the Finns and then xs how it would end ...
  5. +5
    14 October 2019 20: 21
    In general, who cares and what they think !!! The USSR acted in its own interests. So everything was done right!
  6. +2
    14 October 2019 20: 32
    The most normal, most verified, most correct and HUMANE agreement. And the "secret" protocol to it is perfectly time and place. With all the different attitudes towards Kobe, here he, as a geopolitical player, was at his best. Only this bar had to be maintained further, and not to demand more from the United Europe the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles.
    1. 0
      14 October 2019 21: 10
      That's just what we palm off under the guise of secret protocols has nothing to do with the originals
      1. 0
        14 October 2019 21: 19
        Have you seen the originals?
        1. +2
          14 October 2019 21: 45
          And they are not, it is not for nothing that the historian at the end of the interview says: "Think!"
          And if you think about it, why should you write some secret agreements on a piece of paper that have no legal force (such agreements are discussed privately verbally), and even supposedly denying their existence and storing them (why?) folder all these years? Some kind of masochism ....
          1. 0
            15 October 2019 01: 22
            So it was the deputies of the Supreme Council that accepted these pieces of paper with a bang by some "democrat" from the rostrum of the Congress! True, he said that these are copies of this agreement. But the originals are hidden, the age of freedom cannot be seen, and copies are from them! It was some kind of madness. How could one rely on copies (and then understand what it was) mistaking them for the original ??? !!! It would be interesting to know these people by name.
            1. 0
              15 October 2019 06: 35
              The names of these people are known, that "democrat" was the well-known "foreman of perestroika" Yakovlev, whose goal was to shake and destroy the USSR, the so-called secret protocols were one of the tools for this
              1. 0
                15 October 2019 10: 06
                That's why we live like that. No one is responsible for anything. He stole a billion in civil service and dumped in London. And what is SK for him, the prosecutor’s office. And if he knew that the cleaners would come, he would not steal.
          2. 0
            15 October 2019 15: 09
            And they are not,

            Everything is published already.
            http://historyfoundation.ru/2019/05/31/pakt/
            1. 0
              15 October 2019 17: 46
              Yeah, published .... It is unclear what fund, it is unclear what pieces of paper one in one repeating goslepovskoy fake of the 46th year.
              "Evidence" for Katyn has also been published, but there are no historians who can think (like Zhukov), all do not believe them
              1. 0
                15 October 2019 18: 13
                Yeah, published .... It is unclear what fund, it is unclear what pieces of paper one in one repeating goslepovskoy fake of the 46th year.
                "Evidence" for Katyn has also been published, but there are no historians who can think (like Zhukov), all do not believe them

                It was discussed. Fund manager A.R. Dyukov is unnoticed in his sympathies for the liberals; Great-grandson I.G. Starinov, by the way. The same one.
                For example, his statement on the anti-Soviet Latvian film "Soviet History": "I am a calm person, but after watching 2/3 of the film I had one desire: to personally kill the director and burn the n * t * r Latvian embassy."

                But as a professional historian-archivist (RGGU), he recognizes both secret protocols and the Katyn execution: “I believe that the execution of the Poles near Katyn was carried out by the NKVD. For me, it remains a mystery why the Soviet authorities made this decision, however, the fact that it was carried out by the NKVD, I have no fundamental doubts here: the available source base speaks about this. ”
                V. Matvienko, D. Medvedev, V. Putin and many other smaller ones agree with him.

                In the preface to the collection (see the link on the site) V. Krasheninnikova says:
                "We are deeply grateful to the Historical and Documentary Department of the Russian Foreign Ministry and personally to the director of the department, Nadezhda Mikhailovna Barinova, for the documents provided, photographs of which are given in the book, and for valuable advice on understanding historical issues."
                1. 0
                  15 October 2019 18: 55
                  What was discussed is certainly a strong argument. Especially if such a historian as V. Krasheninnikova ....
                  Well, it’s not clear who financed the fund publishes scans (without an archival link), while nodding at the Historical and Documentary Department of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which hasn’t been on this site for 10 years now. Is this what documents are now entering into historical circulation?
                  I asked a couple of comments above a question - can you clearly answer it?
                  So, Doctor of Historical Sciences Yuri Zhukov also asks questions about Katyn, will there be answers to them? or as you say - has already been discussed? Moreover, such authorities as V. Matvienko, D. Medvedev and V. Putin ...
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. 0
                      15 October 2019 22: 20
                      Quote: Arzt
                      It was discussed on this site.
                      https://topwar.ru/162144-nevyuchennye-uroki-vtoroj-mirovoj-vojny.html#comment-id-9672154

                      Yeah, it was discussed - you and I had a little chat in the comments, so what? This is far from the only discussion even on this site.

                      Quote: Arzt
                      The Fund is a non-profit public organization, pro-government.
                      The director of the foundation is grateful to the President of the Russian Federation (January 18, 2010) for his active participation in research, journalistic and popularizing work to counter the falsification of history to the detriment of Russia's interests

                      Yeltsin and Solzhenitsyn and Chubais have gratitude to Putin. What should this gratitude tell me?
                      Here I have highlighted a piece of quotation - for me, throwing such "secret protocols" into the masses, as well as an admission of guilt in the Katyn events, is a direct damage to Russia's interests.
                      Quote: Arzt
                      There are huge amounts of information. All publish any site is not enough.

                      Laying out "secret protocols" which for some reason hid from the public for almost 20 years is not an ordinary event - a couple of lines on the official website would be enough, otherwise there is nothing besides this "old thing"! :
                      "Until 1989, Moscow officially denied the availability of the original protocols, which made it possible to question the reliability of the texts published in Western sources. In 1989, at the II Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR, the Commission on Political and Legal Assessment of the Soviet-German Non-Aggression Treaty, chaired by A.N. Yakovlev, made public and introduced the secret protocol of August 23, 1939 into official use. * Moreover, in the resolution Congress pointed out that "the originals of the protocol were not found in either the Soviet or foreign archives. However ... the examination of copies, cards and other documents, the compliance of subsequent events with the contents of the protocol confirm the fact of its signing and existence. ” It was also noted that if the content of the non-aggression pact “did not contradict the norms of international law and the contractual practice of states,” the secret protocol “was, from a legal point of view, in conflict with the sovereignty and independence of a number of third countries.” Having approved the conclusions of the Commission, the congress condemned the secret agreements with Germany and declared them “legally insolvent and invalid from the moment of their signing” *

                      In 1990 and 1992 texts of closed protocols were published in the editions of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs “Year of the crisis, 1938-1939.” and “Documents of the Foreign Policy of the USSR, 1939” from copies stored in the archives of the Ministry.

                      In 2002, the A.N. Yakovlev Commission announced that the original documents “were found in the archives of the CPSU Central Committee”. In 2003, on their basis, a publication was prepared in the journal "New and Contemporary History"
                      ."
                      Quote: Arzt
                      I understand that the Chairman of the Council of the Federation of the Russian Federation and the two Presidents of the Russian Federation are not authorities for you, but still listen to them:

                      You probably joked ..... But for the sake of respect I listened - I’d better advise you to read the same Yu. Zhukov, a very intelligent historian.


                      Quote: Arzt
                      Now think, why should they hang other people's crimes on themselves and the country? If there were doubts, even the slightest, even Yeltsin would refuse.

                      Come on! For a moment, forget about the regalia, the posts held and the accolades of authorities and turn on the logic. They don’t hang anything on themselves, on the country? - Yes, but they hang on the USSR (which, from the point of view of the social system, is the antagonist of the current capitalist Russia), so, according to the logic, everything is simple - the more dirt we pour, the less chance, repetition (this Well, a nightmare of any democrat).
                      Yeltsin, as one of the partners in the collapse of the USSR, has the direct benefit of pouring mud on the latter.
                      That's just throwing stones into the past, they fall into modern Russia, which is the legal successor and heir to the achievements of the USSR.
                      Think now you and help me to explain logically, otherwise I do not catch up:
                      Quote: KERMET
                      Why should I write on paper some secret agreements that have no legal force (such agreements are discussed privately orally), and even supposedly denying their existence and storing them (why?) in some folder all these years? ...
                      1. 0
                        15 October 2019 23: 05
                        Think now you and help me to explain logically, otherwise I do not catch up:
                        Quote: KERMET
                        Why should I write on paper some secret agreements that have no legal force (such agreements are discussed privately orally), and even supposedly denying their existence and storing them (why?) in some folder all these years? ...

                        Cool. This is the line of the new frontier Do you propose to orally discuss? And the accession of Bessarabia to the USSR? And the question of the very existence of the state of Poland?
                        Imagine that the issue with the Kuril Islands was solved orally. Or with the Crimea. Try to verbally define the boundaries of the plots with neighbors in the country.

                        The contract itself is just common words. Just the EVERYTHING of the contract was in the Appendices. That is why they are SECRET. The most important information in the world is under the heading of secrecy. And of course in writing, certified by signature. Only then does it have legal force.
                      2. 0
                        16 October 2019 00: 51
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Cool. This is the line of the new frontier Do you propose to orally discuss?

                        Well, firstly, the line of demarcation was discussed, and then printed in the central newspapers in September of the 39th (Treaty of Friendship and Border between the USSR and Germany) and it passed almost along the line of Curzon

                        Quote: Arzt
                        And the accession of Bessarabia to the USSR?

                        And this has something to do with it? The USSR never recognized the seizure of Bessarabia by Romania and Germany in this matter "went through the forest" from the very beginning.
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Imagine that the issue with the Kuril Islands was solved orally. Or with the Crimea. Try to verbally define the boundaries of the plots with neighbors in the country.

                        And you imagine that I shared your apartment with your neighbor without your knowledge and even designed it on a piece of paper lol What value will such a treaty have?
                        According to the general opinion of historians and public figures, the secret protocol is in the legal sense an initially unlawful document. Neither the governments, nor the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, nor the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, nor the Reichstag were informed about the existence of the protocol.
                      3. 0
                        16 October 2019 13: 22
                        Well, firstly, the line of demarcation was discussed, and then printed in the central newspapers in September of the 39th (Treaty of Friendship and Border between the USSR and Germany) and it passed almost along the line of Curzon

                        Yes. This is the next agreement, after the actual partition of Poland. They finally fixed what was not discussed, but WRITTEN in a secret annex to the agreement on August 23.
                        What does this have to do with it? USSR never recognized capture of Bessarabia

                        Yes. But those were words. And it became documented in paragraph 3 of the secret additional protocol to the pact: "Regarding South-East Europe, the Soviet side emphasizes the USSR's interest in Bessarabia. The German side declares its full political interest in these areas."
                        And you imagine that I shared your apartment with your neighbor without your knowledge and even put it on a piece of paper lol what value would such an agreement have?

                        If you assure this piece of paper as it should be, at a notary public - your apartment. So people become homeless.
                      4. 0
                        16 October 2019 15: 48
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Yes. This is the next agreement, after the actual partition of Poland. They finally fixed what was not discussed, but WRITTEN in a secret annex to the agreement on August 23.

                        First they secrecy, writing down approximately (?) The border, which they forget (?) To convey to the armies on both sides (to see well, it’s very secret), then a month later they draw a completely new print in the press .... Is this your logic?
                        Why should something be secretly logged if, in fact, it has no value?
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Yes. But these were the words. And it became documented in paragraph 3 of the secret supplementary protocol to the pact

                        Once again, what is the great value of this document before words, if it has no power (it is not recognized, communicated or ratified by any government)?
                        Quote: Arzt
                        If you assure this piece of paper as it should be, at a notary public - your apartment. So people become homeless.

                        If I certify (how interesting?) This piece of paper with a notary, then at least it ceases to be secret - don’t you think? A question for you - where and to whom were the "secret protocols" certified?
                      5. 0
                        16 October 2019 16: 37
                        First they secrecy, writing down approximately (?) The border, which they forget (?) To convey to the armies on both sides (to see well, it’s very secret), then a month later they draw a completely new print in the press .... Is this your logic?
                        Why should something be secretly logged if, in fact, it has no value?

                        The logic is simple. Stalin and Hitler agreed to cut Eastern Europe, while Poland was cut in half, as a result of which it disappeared from the map. Since from the point of view of international law this act does not look very beautiful, the essence of the matter, namely the drawing of borders along the rivers Vistula, Narew, San, the fate of Bessarabia, the Baltic States and the independent Polish Government is kept secret, and the contract itself is on display, which only general words about friendship.
                        The troops are assigned tasks in which the boundaries are defined (directive No. 16633 of the BOVO, directive 16634 of the KOVO, etc.). After reaching the approximate border, the troops stop and the border is specified. Somewhere the Germans climbed forward (Lviv), somewhere we (Suwalki). The troops are withdrawn, the demarcation of the new border is being carried out, it is confirmed by a new treaty, published in newspapers.

                        Once again, what is the great value of this document before words, if it has no power (it is not recognized, communicated or ratified by any government)?

                        A question for you - where and to whom were the "secret protocols" certified?

                        Article VII This agreement is subject to ratification as soon as possible. Exchange of instruments of ratification should take place in Berlin. The contract comes into force immediately after its signing.
                        Certified by the signatures of the parties at the bottom of the pages, as is customary throughout the world.
                        Ratified by the USSR SSR on August 31, 1939. The Germans went the next day.

                        If I assure (how interesting?) This scrap of paper from a notary public, then at least it ceases to be secret - you don’t find it?

                        I say that all serious agreements are written on paper, and not verbally. And signed by the parties. This is actually a natural practice, more than one century. Especially in international relations.
                        Did you at least sign a contract at the time of hiring? Or verbally decided on a salary?
                        Initially, the notary's papers are not secret, but contracts and annexes between countries and other documents are often under the stamps. Why not reassure them now? That's what secret workflow is, and subscriptions to security tolerances of varying degrees.
                      6. 0
                        16 October 2019 17: 07
                        Quote: Arzt
                        The logic is simple. Stalin and Hitler agreed to cut Eastern Europe

                        I am familiar with the version of the State Department, it was for it that these "secret protocols" were concocted
                        Quote: Arzt
                        The troops are assigned tasks in which the boundaries are defined (directive No. 16633 of the BOVO, directive 16634 of the KOVO, etc.). After reaching the approximate border, the troops stop and the border is specified. Somewhere the Germans climbed forward (Lviv), somewhere we (Suwalki)

                        Those. troops of both sides violated secret agreements?
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Article VII This agreement is subject to ratification as soon as possible. Exchange of instruments of ratification should take place in Berlin. The contract comes into force immediately after its signing.
                        Certified by the signatures of the parties at the bottom of the pages, as is customary throughout the world.
                        Ratified by the USSR SSR on August 31, 1939.

                        The agreement was ratified by the Supreme Soviet of the USSR a week after its signing, moreover, the presence of a “secret additional protocol” was hidden from the deputies - This is from Wiki. So the secret protocols (unratified) are just a piece of paper, why then?
                        Quote: Arzt
                        I say that all serious agreements are written on paper, and not verbally.

                        I completely agree with you, but "secret protocols" is a frivolous document from the word completely
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Did you at least sign a contract at the time of hiring? Or verbally decided on a salary?

                        And according to your logic, two uncles I didn’t know about secrecy from me could accept me for work, just assuring it with a secret piece of paper lol
                      7. 0
                        16 October 2019 19: 18
                        I am familiar with the State Department version

                        This is a matter of terminology. The fact remains - it was the state of Poland, and then disappeared. The territory is divided between Germany and the USSR.

                        moreover, the presence of a “secret additional protocol” was hidden from the deputies

                        Yes, they were not even allowed to read the text of the contract, what would shepherds and milkmaids understand there?
                        Just like the current deputies.
                        From Molotov’s speech:
                        "There is no need here to dwell on individual clauses of the treaty. The Council of People's Commissars has reason to hope that the treaty will meet your approval as one of the most important political documents for the USSR. (Applause.)"
                        Full text:
                        http://www.odin-fakt.ru/biblioteka/v_m_molotov_o_ratifik/
                      8. 0
                        16 October 2019 20: 15
                        Quote: Arzt
                        This is a matter of terminology. The fact remains - it was the state of Poland, and then disappeared. The territory is divided between Germany and the USSR.

                        There is a fact, it is interpreted only in different ways - there is a "Soviet version" of what happened (without mentioning secret protocols) there is an alternative (based on the existence of these protocols)
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Yes, they were not even allowed to read the text of the contract, what would shepherds and milkmaids understand there?
                        Just like the current deputies.

                        The whole list of Soviet deputies with their education and professions is hardly known to you, and it does not matter. An important fact is that the "secret annexes" to the treaty have not been ratified by the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, and without this they are invalid. just paper
                      9. 0
                        15 October 2019 23: 43
                        Come on! For a moment, forget about the regalia, the posts held and the accolades of authorities and turn on the logic. They don’t hang anything on themselves, on the country? - Yes, but they hang on the USSR (which, from the point of view of the social system, is the antagonist of the current capitalist Russia), so, according to the logic, everything is simple - the more dirt we pour, the less chance, repetition (this Well, a nightmare of any democrat).


                        Then let's admit that we wanted to attack Germany, did not fly into space, Kennedy is also our business.
                        No matter how antagonistic the USSR is, everyone understands that Russia is his successor. Putin and Matvienko were born and raised under socialism, GDP has always said that the collapse of the USSR is the biggest tragedy. He checked everything a hundred times before taking on such a thing. To fabricate documents, a bunch of evidence, to ward off the memorial and everything so that socialism does not happen again? In terms of logic, this is nonsense.
                      10. 0
                        16 October 2019 01: 12
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Then let's admit that we wanted to attack Germany

                        Well, some of the current shit and pseudo-historians come to this.
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Putin and Matvienko were born and raised under socialism

                        And also Solzhenitsyn, Yeltsin, Gaidar, Chubais ... the list is long - the birth under socialism is some kind of quality mark or what?
                        Quote: Arzt
                        He checked everything a hundred times before taking on such a

                        Did he tell you personally? Someone did an examination of documents from these special folders (which, by the way, magically appeared at the right time to push the collapse of the USSR) apart from the words of A. N. Yakovlev that graphological, phototechnical and lexical examinations of copies, maps and other documents were allegedly carried out? And what exactly did Putin take upon himself? - These documents were not found or fabricated by him. He pleaded guilty for Katyn, trying to get momentary benefits in Polish relations, and in the end gave them only trump cards in his hands. Once again, listen to Zhukov, what he says about Katyn.
                        And I didn’t hear a logical answer to my question ...
      2. +1
        14 October 2019 22: 05
        Quote: KERMET

        That's just what we palm off under the guise of secret protocols has nothing to do with the originals

        Well, why don’t you like secret protocols, and they’re not so secret, if at once everyone knew about them, there’s nothing secret there.
        1. 0
          14 October 2019 22: 11
          Well, firstly, what is called secret protocols first surfaced in the year 46 at the beginning of the Cold War, secondly, their goal is to shift the blame on the beginning of WWII to the USSR with a further review of all the results of this war, so what should I like about this fake?
    2. 0
      18 October 2019 12: 18
      The most normal, most verified, most correct and HUMANE agreement. And the "secret" protocol to it is perfectly time and place. With all the different attitudes towards Kobe, here he, as a geopolitical player, was at his best.

      A. Speer "Memories"

      "Exactly three weeks later, we heard that the German Foreign Minister was negotiating in Moscow. During dinner, Hitler was handed a note. He scanned it with his eyes, for a moment, blushing in front of his eyes, he turned to stone, then hit the table with his fist so that glasses shook and exclaimed: "I caught them! I caught them!" But in a second he regained control of himself, no one dared to ask any questions, and the meal went on as usual.

      After her, Hitler invited people from his circle to himself: “We conclude a non-aggression pact with Russia. Here, read. A telegram from Stalin. " She was addressed to the "Reich Chancellor Hitler" and briefly informed about the unity. It was the most amazing, exciting turn of events that I could imagine - a telegram that amicably connected the names of Hitler and Stalin. Then we were shown a film about the Red Army parade in front of Stalin with a huge mass of troops. Hitler expressed his satisfaction that such a military potential was now neutralized and turned to his military adjutants, intending to discuss with them the quality of weapons and troops on Red Square. The ladies remained in their company, but naturally, they immediately learned the news from us, which was soon made public on the radio.

      In the evening of August 23 after Goebbels commented on the sensational news at a press conference, Hitler asked to be associated with him. He wanted to know the reaction of representatives of the foreign press. With frantically brilliant eyes, Goebbels told us what he heard: “The sensation could not be grander. And when the outside rang of bells, a representative of the English press said: "This is the death knell of the British Empire." This statement made the strongest impression on Hitler's euphoric drunkenness that evening. Now he believed that he had ascended over fate itself.

      At night, Hitler and I stood on the terrace and admired the rare game of nature. A very intense aurora {123} for a whole hour filled with red light the opposite one, covered in legends of Untersberg, while above it the sky was blazing with all the colors of the rainbow. It was impossible to imagine a more spectacular staging of the final “Twilight of the Gods”. Our faces and hands seemed unnaturally red. Hitler suddenly said to one of his military adjutants: “It looks like a stream of blood. This time, the use of force is indispensable. ”
  7. 0
    14 October 2019 20: 39
    Recently, this was a topic, did not everyone find out?
  8. +1
    14 October 2019 20: 46
    the question itself in the title is rather mildly stupid. asking such questions one should expect a discussion which is immoral in nature. this is exactly what the West is doing. What does this question mean? that at least there is a point of view such and such. and they essentially should not be. it's like asking-rape is a crime or not. this agreement is our business, as are dozens of others, the business of those who signed them. it was profitable for us at that moment and therefore dosvidos analytics. that is how idiotic questions appear in narrow circles, and maybe Leningrad needs to be turned over and people’s lives must be saved and so on.
  9. -4
    14 October 2019 21: 35
    Yes. Defining. They gave the Nazis to deal with Poland, France, and the British on the mainland.
    Therefore, on June 22, they were left face to face against the most powerful army in the world.
    Only half the country was in occupation, and then they put in 30 million to release her back.
    1. 0
      14 October 2019 23: 01
      Quote: maden.usmanow
      They gave the Nazis to deal with Poland, with France

      Otherwise, they could be against them all at once.
    2. 0
      15 October 2019 01: 39
      I agree with the ending. But in October 1922 the war ended. In 1939, a new one began, with the Finns, not from a good life. In 1914, the first world war, by 1917, went over to the revolution, where one half of the population killed the other. And this is not the saints of the 90s! Those. 27 years of peaceful life! The country is in ruins. A hidden war is going on against the new government of its own citizens. By the year 39, the KV tank appeared, an art system. Numerous boxes of future plants are being built in the east of the country. Numerous URs. By the way, UR in Karelian stopped the Finns, preventing them from reaching Leningrad.
    3. +1
      15 October 2019 02: 34
      that is, in the opposite case: the British landed in Normandy in 1941, the Poles fought not in alliance with the Wehrmacht, but in alliance with us, the French still capture Alsace ... wake up, you rave, you have a high fever. The little shavers would have remained behind the puddle, the Poles, together with the Wehrmacht, would have attacked the USSR, and the French lost on any in 1940.
      1. +1
        15 October 2019 10: 54
        Poles together with the Wehrmacht would attack the USSR


        August 23 sign a pact
        September 1, the Germans begin the occupation of Poland.
        The Germans developed a large-scale military operation against Poland in just 7 days, and before August 23 they wanted to attack the USSR with the Poles
        Yes Yes Yes. Tell tales to children.
        It turned out how it happened. Stalin provided the Nazis with a reliable rear in the East, and when the Nazis dealt with all, there remained 1 on 1.
        Half the country is occupied, millions of civilians rotted in concentration camps left by the running Red Army.
        What was not like that?
        Nothing prevented the Germans from hitting the rear when they pulled all their forces against the French.
        Nothing prevented a strike on the Wehrmacht when, after the occupation of Poland, he had absolutely no left, neither fuel and lubricants, nor ammunition.
        Stalin did not do this, received what he received.
        1. 0
          15 October 2019 19: 26
          Quote: maden.usmanow
          Nothing prevented the Germans from hitting the rear when they pulled all their forces against the French.
          Nothing prevented a strike on the Wehrmacht when, after the occupation of Poland, he had absolutely no left, neither fuel and lubricants, nor ammunition.
          Stalin did not do this, received what he received.

          Yeah, and instantly become an aggressor country that violated peace agreements? those. to give all the bargaining chips to Hitler, who squealed about the communist threat to all of Europe? It was precisely in this trap that Stalin did not fall
        2. 0
          16 October 2019 02: 55
          Yes, yes, the Germans developed an operation in a week, aha. Gianni Rodari you are ours. Stalin provided ... that is, it was he who declared war on Hitler stomped on the spot .... not shavers with paddling pools, no. Hitler pulled forces against the French in 1940, and not in 1939 - feel the difference. And the ITT had no plans to start the slaughter, unlike the West. The Wehrmacht directly reached the line of demarcation with the Red Army in Poland with dry tanks and without shells and ammunition ... aha ... the FSE spent on the valiant Poles ... well, yes ... the industry of half of Europe could not keep up with the release of ammunition ... well Yes. And why was the IVS harnessed for Poland, which prevented harnessing the harbor for Czechoslovakia? Where is the reason? If the Poles expected with the Germans to march across the USSR? What is the profit when one enemy destroys another, stop him?
    4. 0
      15 October 2019 07: 47
      Quote: maden.usmanow
      Yes. Defining. They gave the Nazis to deal with Poland, France, and the British on the mainland.
      Therefore, on June 22, they were left face to face against the most powerful army in the world.
      Only half the country was in occupation, and then they put in 30 million to release her back.

      Autumn is raging ...
  10. +1
    14 October 2019 22: 01
    . Since the 80 of the 20 century, the thesis of the immorality of the treaty has firmly entered the public consciousness of Soviet citizens (later - Russians)
    Outright nonsense. The bearers of "Western values" tried to promote the immorality of this treaty. But even the modern government, for all its ambiguous attitude to Stalin's policy, does not mention this treaty in such a context.
    1. 0
      15 October 2019 08: 57
      The bearers of "Western values" do not see anything immoral in the treaty itself; immoral in their eyes are the so-called secret protocols, which our modern government happily recognizes
      1. 0
        16 October 2019 05: 19
        mentioned in the context of the immorality of the contract itself, because secret protocols are so secret that no one has ever seen them.
        1. 0
          16 October 2019 09: 42
          This window of overtone is in action, at first a completely harmless agreement is taken, then secret protocols are "accidentally found" to it, which make the agreement immoral and criminal, thus the signatories to this agreement automatically become accomplices in a criminal conspiracy and initiators of war - in many countries this is already calmly perceived. equating fascism and communism. Further, since one of the winners turned out to be a "criminal", one can quite calmly raise the question of the illegality of post-war borders and, in general, of revising the results of World War II
          1. 0
            17 October 2019 11: 14
            This is all fixed by a good pendal.
  11. +6
    14 October 2019 22: 53
    absolutely any contract. in any configuration. and if it’s for the good of its state .. it’s good and it is a priori. and the rest is from the evil one.
  12. 0
    16 October 2019 15: 33
    The West, represented by the British Empire, helped Germany because BI, as usual, needed a counterbalance, this time, France, whose army was considered the most powerful in the world following the WWI. Stalin did everything possible to send Germany westward this time. What's bad about it? Later, on 22 on June 1941, it turned out that Stalin was also mistaken, but all the same, the British were muddied.
  13. 0
    31 October 2019 00: 25
    Without taking into account the Munich agreement, Japan's attack on China, Italy's attack on Ethiopia, the annexation of Czechoslovakia and Austria, the US "neutrality", the ideological factor (hostile environment), it is impossible to understand Stalin's logic. The Second World War did not begin with Hitler's attack on Poland, but at least the Second World War in Europe began with the partition of Czechoslovakia between Nazi Germany and "democratic" Poland.
  14. 0
    14 November 2019 12: 17
    Now all the same events are happening as before the Second World War. As soon as a common border appears in NATO, war will begin.
  15. -1
    27 December 2019 19: 57
    How much can this contract be procrastinated ?! The USSR concluded this treaty after England and France refused to conclude a treaty against Hitler and Poland concluded a similar treaty with Hitler (to Molotov Ribbentrop). And after the Munich agreement it was necessary to be completely serene so that nothing would be done .... If there is so much howling about this treaty among liberals and universal people, then the treaty is correct

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