Military Review

Russia may revive Barguzin’s BJRK project in response to new US missiles

349
Russia may revive the Barguzin military rail missile complex (BZHRK) project or create a new mobile ground-based missile complex in response to the development by the United States of medium-range and shorter-range ground-based missile systems. This opinion was expressed by the editor-in-chief of the National Defense magazine Igor Korotchenko.


Russia may revive Barguzin’s BJRK project in response to new US missiles


According to Korotchenko, Russia may consider the revival of the military railway missile project as a response to the possible deployment of medium- and shorter-range missiles by the United States in Asia and Europe. At the same time, according to the expert, a lot of time will not be needed to revive the project, Russia has all the developments on this topic.

He noted that in the case of the creation of such trains, the United States will not be able to track them, which means they will be destroyed by the first blow. Several trains plying the territory of our country will significantly enhance the combat potential of the Strategic Missile Forces.

Earlier, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov, answering the question whether Russia will return to the BZHRK project after the US withdraws from the INF Treaty, replied that this was unlikely to happen, but added that it was his personal opinion.

Recall that the start of work on the Barguzin military railway missile complex (BZHRK) project was announced by the Russian Ministry of Defense in the 2012 year, the Yars rocket was chosen for it in 2014, and at the end of the 2017 year it was reported that the project was closed. As the Russian media wrote, the development was postponed indefinitely. However, it was reported that development work was fully carried out on the project, and missile throw tests for the complex were also successfully conducted. Later information appeared that the resumption of work on it is possible if the military-political situation changes.

The development of the BZHRK was conducted by the Moscow Heat Engineering Institute, taking into account the experience of creating its predecessor - the BZHRK with the Molodets rocket (RT-23 UTTH, according to NATO classification - SS-24 "Scalpel"). "

During the Soviet era, there were three divisions in the Strategic Missile Forces, each comprising four Good Forces combat missiles. Thus, twelve "nuclear trains" carried 36 missiles, each of which carried 10 warheads. BZHRK utilization took place in 2003-2006.
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
349 comments
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  1. Victor_B
    Victor_B 12 October 2019 18: 13
    +10
    It's time.
    Moreover, Yarses are lighter and smaller than Well done and can be reliably disguised as a regular freight train.
    If you do not let it in, both the letter and the railways will not be tracked.
    Although how can they not track if the train with its own steam train is traveling?
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 12 October 2019 18: 18
      +77
      Something often. We hear this news with the prefix “maybe”, “will” and “going”!
      I would like to hear - BZHRK BARGUZIN REVIVED.
      1. Victor_B
        Victor_B 12 October 2019 18: 23
        +14
        As part of the WWS, the number of other carriers would have to be reduced, because the amount should be constant.
        The Americans are clearly preparing a withdrawal from the treaty, which is why ours are "hinting".
        You can also make such trains for medium-range missiles.
        Then they will not fall under the restrictions.
        1. ProkletyiPirat
          ProkletyiPirat 12 October 2019 21: 11
          -19
          Nooo, in no case, you don’t need to make rockets on without a BZHRK and on the basis of ships, it is better to submarine and / or unpaved wheeled and / or aviation oversized with a discharge from the BTA (IL-76, etc.). Our (RF) disadvantage is that we (RF) do not have military access to the seas and railway lines near our borders because in wartime these transport routes are easily blocked by the enemy and we won’t be able to do anything (physically it is possible but economically it will be necessary to spend 5-10 times more resources than our opponents combined, which suicidal in economic terms ....).
          1. Monar
            Monar 13 October 2019 05: 50
            +6
            Why train near the border? The same "Well done" covers 11 thousand versts. Missiles under the INF Treaty - up to 5000.
            By the way, from Moscow to London - about 2 800. To Paris about the same. There will be 2000 reserve range in the direction of the Urals.
            1. ProkletyiPirat
              ProkletyiPirat 13 October 2019 10: 29
              -3
              Monar, tell me why the MoD has abandoned the already created BZHRK? Do you know these reasons? And then, as it were, the guide tells them (more precisely, I was in this museum at zero). Has anything changed today for these reasons?
              1. Monar
                Monar 13 October 2019 12: 43
                +3
                Causes? Signed agreement. 91st year restriction on routes, stood still. 93rd - removal from armament according to START-2, cut to 03 years.
                1. ProkletyiPirat
                  ProkletyiPirat 13 October 2019 14: 24
                  -2
                  Yes, the reasons, and this is NOT "START", there were, and there are still fundamental reasons, you just personally and 13+ people above this do not know and do not want to know, otherwise, you would google and find them and be would like me against the BZHRK. In short, compare two soil complexes first: based on w / d and second: on the basis of a \ d (wheeled) where, when and under what conditions the first \ second will be useful, where, when and under what conditions the first \ second will be harmful. So when you compare, then you will understand that the wheel version will be better in all respects (there are a couple of exceptions but they only confirm this rule).
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 13 October 2019 15: 21
                    +2
                    Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                    In short, compare the two soil complexes of the first: on the basis of railway \\ and the second: on the basis of \\ (wheel) where, when and under what conditions the first \ second will be useful, where, when and under what conditions the first \ second will be harmful . So when you compare, then you will understand that the wheel version will be better in all respects (there are a couple of exceptions but they only confirm this rule).

                    And even this is not the most important thing, because the deciding factor will always remain the cost of a kiloton, vulnerability, and all associated costs. When everything is scrupulously calculated, it turns out that the BRD complexes are significantly less expensive than wheeled vehicles, and the gain in vulnerability is negligible, given the fact that such complexes are being monitored. Given their operational capabilities and the cost of a kiloton, we can come to a general conclusion - this is the direction of development of our strategic nuclear forces in the current situation for us is unpromising.
                    1. Monar
                      Monar 13 October 2019 17: 58
                      +2
                      When everything is scrupulously counted, it turns out that the BRD complexes are significantly less expensive than wheeled vehicles
                      Can I have numbers? Well, at least primitive. The cost of salt and limpdrichesva. For a day of continuous movement.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 13 October 2019 18: 08
                        +3
                        Quote: Monar
                        Can I have numbers? Well, at least primitive. The cost of salt and limpdrichesva. For a day of continuous movement.

                        These numbers are classified, but believe me, stationary in silos are the cheapest kiloton and this was already known in the Soviet Army (at least to those to whom it was communicated). As for the cost of tanning salons, this is generally a penny in comparison with the cost of the entire complex, so the main costs are not inherent in these costs.
                      2. Monar
                        Monar 13 October 2019 19: 12
                        -4
                        that in stationary silos
                        And what does it have to do with it?
                        If you do not have numbers for the operation of automobile and railway complexes, then why so categorically affirm?
                        I proceed simply from the cost of the constant movement of equipment. For the railway, the main thing is the change of teams of drivers. All. For automobile - the same + constant refueling. Could you tell me how long it takes to fill the tank under the plug at the "Poplar"?
                      3. ccsr
                        ccsr 13 October 2019 19: 27
                        +3
                        Quote: Monar
                        If you do not have numbers for the operation of automobile and railway complexes, then why so categorically affirm?

                        No categoricality - any mobile device always turns out to be more costly to maintain the same type of weapons and equipment, especially expensive, than a stationary object. It’s strange that you don’t know this, but you probably don’t even understand the essence of the term "military economy".
                        Quote: Monar
                        For railway, the main thing is the change of the crew of the drivers. All.

                        This is too primitive an approach, because it does not take into account all the expenses incurred by civil structures for the creation and maintenance of normal activities of such a composition. I'm not talking about the fact that the very movement of missiles along such a route will require much more costs for the maintenance of rolling stock and the missile itself after duty than if it were in a silo.
                        Quote: Monar
                        Could you tell me how long it takes to fill the tank under the plug at the "Poplar"?

                        In fact, military equipment is supposed to be stored completely filled with all types of fuel and lubricants and liquids - I already realized that you were far from the army, once you ask such a question.
                      4. Amurets
                        Amurets 13 October 2019 23: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: Monar
                        The cost of salt and limpdrichesva. For a day of continuous movement.

                        You don't have to compare. BZHRK never went under electric traction. For Molodets, it was a DM-62 diesel locomotive; for Barguzin, the traction locomotive has not yet been identified.
                      5. Aldmit_2
                        Aldmit_2 14 October 2019 05: 59
                        0
                        Not a diesel locomotive, but diesel locomotives. And BZHRK spends a lot of time on the state network.
                      6. Amurets
                        Amurets 14 October 2019 07: 19
                        0
                        Quote: Aldmit_2
                        Not a diesel locomotive, but diesel locomotives.

                        The base locomotive is being determined, for Molodets it is a somewhat modernized locomotive DM-62 with the addition of special equipment.
                        And about the other changes in the diesel locomotive by reference. http://saroavto2.blogspot.com/2019/10/62.html
                  2. Monar
                    Monar 13 October 2019 17: 02
                    0
                    you and 13+ people above this
                    And where does this figure come from?
                    By the way, I have never claimed that the BZHRD has no shortcomings. Especially in its first implementation. What is at least the process of taking the contact network aside.
                    That's when compare then you will understand
                    Well, give your arguments.
                    1. ProkletyiPirat
                      ProkletyiPirat 13 October 2019 18: 00
                      +1
                      Quote: Monar
                      That's when compare then you will understand
                      Well, give your arguments.

                      Well, I have already cited above, but you did not express counter arguments, but I repeat going from another side.
                      For example_1: we can use wheel complexes outside the Russian Federation as well, we can export them, but with railway complexes this will not work (the exception is container complexes, and even that is not all).
                      For example_2: wheel complexes are always cheaper because they do not need to spend extra money on laying rails and hardening bridges and roads. (enough dirt roads)
                      For example_3: Wheel complexes have all the advantages with respect to the railway, provided that they can be transferred along the railway.

                      Already these three points are enough to cancel projects BZHRK.
                      1. Monar
                        Monar 13 October 2019 18: 18
                        +2
                        1. ICBMs for export? Are you kidding?
                        And 11 miles range. Why roll them abroad?
                        2. Yes, even under the USSR, I repeat, shifted for 1500 km from the base of the sleepers under such a load. For which Russian Railways is grateful. Heavy trains carry.
                        3. Can you have an example of a carriage, on which a tractor under the "Poplar" without dismemberment will fit?
                      2. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 14 October 2019 00: 52
                        -2
                        Quote: Monar
                        1. ICBMs for export? Are you kidding?

                        Highlight bold and underlined. Long-range ICBMs and missiles (from 500 \ 1000 \ 5000 \ ... \ km) with not nuclear combat units. For example, the sale of Nicaragua and / or Brazil and / or Venezuela of such missiles with the aim of destroying large industrial and cultural centers of the United States in the event of a US attack on these countries or or blocking their economic activity. There is just a range of 7-12 thousand km. Or For example Sale of such missiles of India with a range of 1000-2000km to protect against Pakistan. Yes, even South Korea can sell missiles with a range of 1000-2000km against Japan.
                        It was about export, now about internal use:
                        Quote: Monar
                        And 11 miles range. Why roll them abroad?

                        As a response to the deployment of missile defense systems along the borders of the Russian Federation, leading to the destruction of the parity of the so-called "nuclear shield".
                        ps Personally, I am against the storage of nuclear weapons in other countries, so I think it is better to develop underwater and air systems.
                      3. Aldmit_2
                        Aldmit_2 14 October 2019 06: 02
                        -2
                        Are you seriously? Sale of nuclear weapons? Do you want to open Pandora's box?
                        Russia will never do this.
                      4. Monar
                        Monar 14 October 2019 07: 58
                        +1
                        I single out bold and underlined ICBMs and long-range missiles (from 500 \ 1000 \ 5000 \ ... \ km) with non-nuclear warheads.

                        Sorry, Sergey, for harshness, but you froze stupidity. Nobody sells this category of weapons. And does not transmit.
                        By the way, is there an ICBM without a nuclear bomb?
                      5. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 14 October 2019 15: 14
                        -1
                        Quote: Monar
                        This category of weapons nobody sells

                        Presently, they do not sell, because from this there is harm "guaranteed" but the benefit "may" be (or may not be). But when you have already suffered this very "guaranteed harm", the sale becomes quite profitable.
                        .
                        Quote: Monar
                        By the way, is there an ICBM without a nuclear bomb?

                        If there is no problem then it’s a matter of more long-range iskanders and calibers as means of destroying cultural and industrial objects, that is, transferring means of influence on the United States into the hands of US opponents so that these opponents can use geopolitical and economic levers of pressure on the USA fearing military aggression on their part, for in the event of such aggression the United States will suffer disproportionate losses.
                        Judge for yourself whether a US businessman will vote for a "hot head" if he is 100% sure that his business (plant) will be attacked? In general, in fact, we will do with such missiles what the United States is doing against us, that is, we will create a ring of hostile associations that suck resources.
                      6. ccsr
                        ccsr 13 October 2019 19: 34
                        +1
                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        Already these three points are enough to cancel the projects of the BZHRK.

                        You have listed only what lies on the surface. And if you dig deeper, then even the cost of state tests when adopting the system will be much lower for ground complexes than for BZHRK. The same is true in the series - everywhere the costs will differ in favor of mobile Topol.
                      7. Monar
                        Monar 14 October 2019 08: 00
                        +1
                        Well, dig deeper. Explain what railway is more expensive than primer.
                      8. ccsr
                        ccsr 14 October 2019 11: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Monar
                        Well, dig deeper. Explain what railway is more expensive than primer.

                        Well, at least the cost of the railway itself. complex (without missiles) and a similar in total charge cost of several cars for "Topol". It is obvious that the costs of moving a larger mass of metal will be higher, as well as the fact that even the current maintenance of the railway. trains (not to mention repairs) will require more costs than wheeled vehicles. A simple example that is clear to any designer of military equipment - even the cost of climatic testing of individual sections of the train will require much more funds than the same test for wheeled vehicles.
                  3. lukewarm
                    lukewarm 15 October 2019 09: 44
                    0
                    IMHO, the possible reasons for "not START" should follow from the shortcomings. At that time, they were as follows:
                    1. Dimensions. 100% camouflage under the refrigerator did not work, because extra wheelsets and a long car.
                    2 Mass - reinforced tracks are needed, something has been reconstructed, but in general there is a restriction on the railway tracks. In short, he could not go everywhere, this train.
                    3. Dragged his reinforced locomotive. This is again unmasking. Especially if the train was on an electrified site.
                    4. This train must be inserted into the traffic schedule, this leads to a violation of the privacy regime. If at the very least it is being decided with the military (and that is, traitors), then this infa will fly straight from the Russian Railways straight to the CIA.
                    If you solve the issue of mass and dimensions ... Then maybe everything will be nice.
              2. kuz363
                kuz363 13 October 2019 20: 58
                +2
                Citizens, you are fooled by the authorship of the development of the Molodets RT-23 UTTX rocket. This is not the Moscow Institute of Heat Engineering, but the Southern Design Bureau in Dnepropetrovsk! Read Vivikedia
        2. KERMET
          KERMET 13 October 2019 07: 59
          +1
          As part of the WWS, the number of other carriers would have to be reduced, because the amount should be constant
          as far as is known in Russia about 1000 charges with a limit on contracts of 1500
      2. Ravil_Asnafovich
        Ravil_Asnafovich 12 October 2019 18: 28
        +13
        This is exactly hi, more boltology, and who is Korotchenko ???
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 13 October 2019 13: 36
          +3
          and who is korotchenko ???

          This person was dismissed from the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation at 35 years old, by inconsistency, from an engineering position. hi
          His comments are not worth discussing at all. IMHO.
          1. kuz363
            kuz363 13 October 2019 21: 02
            +1
            And he always carries a balcony, which does not coincide with reality. For example, the authorship of the Molodets rocket project, which he attributed to the Institute of Heat Engineering. Although it was actually developed by Yuzhnoye Design Bureau by brothers Academicians Utkin in Dnepropetrovsk
      3. Evil echo
        Evil echo 12 October 2019 18: 50
        -3
        Are you right in time and place of basing?
        1. YOUR
          YOUR 13 October 2019 02: 47
          0
          The location will be known, and at present it is difficult to hide. Software, verification of the functioning of rockets and equipment, routine maintenance. Whether all this is on the way or at some temporary parking in a row.
          Another question is whether these trains will be there permanently.
          He took off at night and left, and instead a dummy crawled out of the tunnel.
          1. Monar
            Monar 13 October 2019 05: 56
            +1
            And how do you distinguish a regular refrigerator from a BZHRK? From the satellite 24 hours a day? Yes, it’s laminar to deceive. Drive a dummy and with a rocket in the depot. And then let them wonder what went west and what went east.
            1. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 13 October 2019 08: 44
              +5
              The fact is that there are practically no refrigerated trains on Russian Railways. If you mask BZHRK then for passenger cars. And it was very easy to distinguish: a raft of eight-axle cars driven by three or four locomotives.
              1. Monar
                Monar 13 October 2019 09: 08
                +3
                Yes? 3 084 dm. for August 19 th year. So your "almost" tryndezh.
                And how do you see from the satellite the number of axles at the car? Again, promising missiles are easier. They need less sparks.
                1. AU Ivanov.
                  AU Ivanov. 13 October 2019 09: 19
                  +3
                  These 3 units are thermos and covered wagons converted from refs. And they will soon be decommissioned, since the last of them was built in 089 with a service life of 1993 years. In addition, going outside the composition of the freight train, under a separate locomotive, re-section, will cause very close attention. And, disguised as a passenger of normal composition (28-12 cars) BZHRK - no.
              2. K-612-O
                K-612-O 13 October 2019 09: 26
                +7
                Barguzin is no longer eight-axle, but is designed for a regular carriage, the rocket is 2 times lighter, and less diesel locomotives are needed, PU is developed and tested, automation, regulation and diagnostics systems are developed and delivered. The new train, if there is one, will not differ from the freight train, there is another option with a turbo-gas train instead of a diesel locomotive.
              3. Spambox
                Spambox 14 October 2019 08: 49
                0
                Excuse me, Sir, how do you count the axis from the satellite?
                1. AU Ivanov.
                  AU Ivanov. 14 October 2019 09: 01
                  -1
                  The length of the car body. The BZHRK wagon is longer than a conventional refrigerator.
                  1. Kochegarkin
                    Kochegarkin 14 October 2019 11: 08
                    0
                    not how much longer is it?
            2. Aldmit_2
              Aldmit_2 14 October 2019 06: 05
              +1
              Even during my service at the BZHRK, there were many unmasking signs, by which it was possible to distinguish the BZHRK from a conventional refrigerator ...
          2. Monar
            Monar 13 October 2019 09: 19
            0
            By the way, the place of basing was known before. But only in different directions from each, for 1 km the paths were altered under such a load. Even under the USSR. Go look for the wind in the field.
      4. Chaldon48
        Chaldon48 12 October 2019 19: 02
        -5
        The hope for friendship and normalization of relations remained upstairs.
        1. Prisoner
          Prisoner 12 October 2019 19: 56
          +12
          That's just friendship is not necessary. Collaboration, trade, coexistence and good! Anglo-Saxons are not made for friendship.
          1. bouncyhunter
            bouncyhunter 12 October 2019 20: 10
            +11
            Quote: Captive
            Anglo-Saxons are not made for friendship

            That's for sure . They love to only dominate. And they react extremely painfully to any attempt to poke their face in a brown substance (not chocolate). yes
            1. Prisoner
              Prisoner 12 October 2019 20: 20
              +3
              Into their own substance. I think so. hi
              1. bouncyhunter
                bouncyhunter 12 October 2019 20: 24
                +5
                hi
                Quote: Captive
                Into their own substance

                Tough, but fair! lol
                And then these "exceptional" ones are already too hungry ... stop
                1. poquello
                  poquello 12 October 2019 21: 35
                  0
                  Quote: bouncyhunter
                  hi
                  Quote: Captive
                  Into their own substance

                  Tough, but fair! lol

                  but to someone else? )))))
        2. iConst
          iConst 12 October 2019 20: 21
          -5
          Quote: Chaldon48
          The hope for friendship and normalization of relations remained upstairs.

          It's not even like that. If the project "One Belt - One Road" is implemented (and everything goes to that), then the Yankees with their pieces of iron will simply drive a nasty broom from Europe. It is no coincidence that Macron has already announced the European army several times. And Merkel agreed.

          And in Asia, where will they be located? I don’t see where they can sit down. Everywhere is hot with an unknown outcome.
          Funny as it may seem, the only peaceful place is Mongolia.

          You can invest billions in this project, but it can happen, it will simply not be needed. The Americans will merge. You can not be mistaken in such calculations.
          1. Grits
            Grits 13 October 2019 01: 35
            +6
            Quote: iConst
            And in Asia, where will they be located? I don’t see where they can sit down. Everywhere is hot with an unknown outcome.

            Have you ever traveled along the BAM and the Trans-Siberian Railway? And I often had to. I assure you that there are sooooo many places where you can hide not only the train, but also the aircraft carrier.
            1. Fan-fan
              Fan-fan 13 October 2019 16: 02
              +1
              And now a railway has been stretched to Yakutsk, and there you can hide a hundred of such trains.
      5. smart ass
        smart ass 12 October 2019 19: 42
        -5
        Barguzin if I'm not mistaken something like a gazelle))
        1. Yura
          Yura 12 October 2019 20: 50
          +7
          Quote: Clever man
          Barguzin if I'm not mistaken something like a gazelle))

          Wind on Baikal. Remember a folk song.
        2. Well done
          Well done 12 October 2019 21: 02
          +2
          Why the name "Barguzin"? The product is new. To vote! "Kirdyk, Kapets, Dryn, Karachun ..." Oh, and the Russian language is rich. Let the analysts there break their heads. laughing
          1. poquello
            poquello 12 October 2019 21: 37
            +1
            Quote: Welldone
            Why the name "Barguzin"? The product is new. To vote! "Kirdyk, Kapets, Dryn, Karachun ..." Oh, and the Russian language is rich. Let the analysts there break their heads. laughing

            rail
            1. LiSiCyn
              LiSiCyn 12 October 2019 23: 20
              +4
              Barguzin, also with meaning. The wind on Lake Baikal has the character of a bore, lasting 2-3 hours. wink
              Well, sable, like a furry animal .... laughing
              1. Grits
                Grits 13 October 2019 01: 38
                +3
                Quote: LiSiCyn
                Well, sable, like a furry animal ....

                It seems like a polar fox ... only faster
          2. smart ass
            smart ass 12 October 2019 21: 39
            +1
            Better call a democratic hello
      6. sagitch
        sagitch 12 October 2019 20: 39
        0
        America, in 3 months after the declaration of withdrawal from the INF Treaty, experienced a new one, i.e. prepared in advance. We need to withstand at least ... probably a year.
      7. Well done
        Well done 12 October 2019 20: 49
        0
        We hear quite often. But We will be the last to learn about the revival of the BZHRK. Alas. First, the Western media will scare the entire planet with another "Putin's hand", and only then, between times, as if apologizing, will our politicians begin to explain themselves ... But now we should show the "cartoon"! So that at least Europe shuddered! Poland and the Romanians will scratch their turnips. We have from cartoons to reality - six months.
      8. U-58
        U-58 13 October 2019 12: 21
        0
        So there is no money.
        The budget is planned to a penny, everything goes first, to the fleet, especially the underwater, to the second, to the Sarmatians, the proud Petrels, Poseidons, and the slurred SU-57.
        So, for Barguzin it is necessary to carry out one retirement rehwl ..
      9. Major48
        Major48 13 October 2019 23: 15
        0
        I think it’s ready. Just waiting for the moment.
    2. Nycomed
      Nycomed 12 October 2019 18: 27
      -22
      Yes, everything will be tracked and recognized, so why not spend a lot of money on the revival of this project. What was relevant in the 80s is now "past the box office". They'll stick some kind of microchip to it, the size of a pinhead, and that's it.
      1. Proxima
        Proxima 12 October 2019 19: 01
        +12
        Quote: Nycomed
        Yes, everything will be tracked and recognized, so why not spend a lot of money on the revival of this project.

        You have interesting logic. what Everything can, in principle, be tracked and recognized. An invisible hat only happens in a fairy tale. Example, is it possible to detect a masked gun? - sure! But for some reason, no one puts a gun in the open field for public display, but they try to hide it. Or your example, are you sure that the microchip will be attached to this BZHRK, and not hooked to some kind of train dummy? About mock-ups Have you heard anything?
        1. Nycomed
          Nycomed 12 October 2019 19: 04
          -16
          Have you heard anything about the spies?
          1. Vasyan1971
            Vasyan1971 12 October 2019 19: 36
            +10
            Quote: Nycomed
            Have you heard anything about the spies?

            So, at the same time, SMERSH will have to be revived.
            1. Nycomed
              Nycomed 12 October 2019 19: 38
              -8
              Well, and where without them! am
          2. Gardamir
            Gardamir 12 October 2019 19: 38
            0
            about shpienov
            I’ll add, my traders have enough. All secrets will be sold for a small bribe.
            1. Nycomed
              Nycomed 12 October 2019 19: 40
              +4
              Will definitely sell! And it’s not a fact that for a little, everyone has learned to bargain. Market. request
              1. The comment was deleted.
          3. Piramidon
            Piramidon 12 October 2019 20: 18
            +5
            Quote: Nycomed
            Have you heard anything about the spies?

            If you talk like that, then in general no weapons need to be produced, all the same, after all, spies will sooner or later recognize and track everything.
            1. Nycomed
              Nycomed 12 October 2019 20: 26
              -12
              So then let’s return the armored trains with carts, what are the little things? And on the armored train we’ll install those captured Napoleonic cannons that are in the Kremlin. There are a lot of them. Why are they just like that?
              1. NKT
                NKT 12 October 2019 21: 37
                +6
                And we already have armored trains in service
          4. Grits
            Grits 13 October 2019 01: 43
            +2
            Quote: Nycomed
            Have you heard anything about the spies?

            Have you heard about the number of trains running through Russia? In Israel, enough for all the spies?
            1. Nycomed
              Nycomed 13 October 2019 21: 34
              -1
              Take an interest in Israel. Why is there a question for me? request
        2. cormorant
          cormorant 12 October 2019 20: 52
          -1
          But Nycomed is right. With the number of sympathizers for the fifth column, they will track the BZHRK at each station and will follow along the way. Someone is an ideological Russophobe, and someone will be bought for money. Not to mention saboteurs in the threatened period.
          1. Nycomed
            Nycomed 12 October 2019 21: 25
            -7
            Yes, even at the sunset of Soviet times I knew where one such train is based. And recently I looked on the Internet (now all info is already open) and for sure, right there, right near Perm, not far from Kukushtan. So then every dog ​​knew about it there. And I’m not a railroad worker, not a military man, and even less so a spy.
            1. Grits
              Grits 13 October 2019 01: 50
              +3
              Quote: Nycomed
              Yes, even at the sunset of Soviet times I knew where one such train is based.

              So after all, where our mobile soil complexes are based is also not a secret for the adversary. Just for some reason, the adversary is very nervous about their presence. Although, it would seem, the soil complex is easier to track. And it’s easier to destroy than the railway.
              Suppose that even, as you say, the chip will be screwed to it, what will it give in an endangered period? Or are you sure that the American super new warhead will chase the train? During the time that a warhead flies toward him, the train leaves for tens of kilometers. And from there comes REMUNERATION!
            2. abc_alex
              abc_alex 13 October 2019 10: 46
              +6
              Quote: Nycomed
              Yes, I still knew at the sunset of Soviet times where one such train is based

              I also could not understand for a long time what the feature of the railway complex is. I myself live in a city with a railway junction and I understand perfectly well that it is not difficult to track such a train. It will take time to determine the exact composition of the train, and then you just need to observe. Especially now, when there is a phone with phones ready to put everything in a row for the sake of likes, not thousands, but millions.

              Then they explained to me that to intercept the US missile defense system, you need to know the azimuth from which the rocket will go. And if the same complex today threatens the west coast, and 14 days later the US east coast, with missile routes through the Atlantic or the Pacific Ocean, and during these 14 days threatens the central US regions with a flight route through the north pole, then its strategic importance very large.
            3. U-58
              U-58 13 October 2019 12: 34
              +3
              So this BASE was ... not far ... from Kukushtan, station South.
              And right now on Google map you can clearly see where the base station was (the rails were handed over to scrap metal for a long time). The area is 3 times larger than Perm-2 station.
              And the Americans from the satellites saw her perfectly.
              But there is not a chip in the location, but in the location of the train ..
              How do you imagine the online transfer to the NSA and the Strategic Command of the actual location of the train?
              Yes, he will leave 20-20 km from the transmitted coordinates in various ways in 30 minutes.
              So, bomb the whole Transsib?
              There will not be enough bombs ..
          2. poquello
            poquello 12 October 2019 22: 42
            +2
            Quote: cormorant
            But Nycomed is right. With the number of sympathizers for the fifth column, they will track the BZHRK at each station and will follow along the way.

            if it’s possible, it will be, only it is necessary to aim at them, to plan the neutralization, but it goes all the time
          3. kuz363
            kuz363 14 October 2019 14: 43
            0
            It is known who they will buy. Heads of stations and others.
      2. Xnumx vis
        Xnumx vis 12 October 2019 22: 13
        +5
        Quote: Nycomed
        Some microchip will stick to it, the size of a pin head, and that’s it.

        -
        *
        lol By analogy with your assumption. So you can mark any of the most secret weapons ... a beacon and hello. And even better immediately mine. And even better immediately atomic mine .. And even better shandarahanat atomic bomb and hello ... I, your aunt .. fellow
      3. Grits
        Grits 13 October 2019 01: 41
        +5
        Quote: Nycomed
        Yes, everything will be tracked and recognized, so why not spend a lot of money on the revival of this project

        You can track such a train in Israel. Because his tail will be in a neighboring country if he reaches the opposite end of the country. And on our open spaces not only trains are lost ...
        1. Nycomed
          Nycomed 13 October 2019 21: 39
          0
          I don't understand, dear, why do you always want to "attach" Israel to me? Apparently, this makes you feel better? May God grant you health! hi
      4. kuz363
        kuz363 13 October 2019 21: 07
        -1
        For example, along the paths, you can bury detectors with chips that will respond to the radioactive background of Barguzin. And send the encrypted signal to the satellite.
    3. Proxima
      Proxima 12 October 2019 18: 27
      +14
      If the armored train can be compared to a cruiser, then the BZHRK is undoubtedly a missile cruiser! good It’s bad that now we will restore what we recently put under the knife (12 trains !!!) Under no circumstances should the Anglo-Saxons be trusted! stop
    4. svp67
      svp67 12 October 2019 18: 51
      +3
      Quote: Victor_B
      It's time.

      Not long ago, but what time is right is a fact
      Quote: Victor_B
      Moreover, Yarses are lighter and smaller than Well done and can be reliably disguised as a regular freight train.

      Why only "Yars"? A series of such "trains" could be made for the installation of medium-range missiles ...
      Quote: Victor_B
      If you do not let it in, both the letter and the railways will not be tracked.

      Ha ha ha ha ...
      Quote: Victor_B
      Although how can they not track if the train with its own steam train is traveling?

      Well, of course ... the locomotive brigade is entirely officers, the locomotive is not changed, of course - a "regular" freight train
      1. Victor_B
        Victor_B 12 October 2019 18: 56
        +3
        Quote: svp67
        Well, of course ... the locomotive brigade is entirely officers, the locomotive is not changed, of course - a "regular" freight train

        Well, as part of the diversion of agents, you can run at least three dozen false trains.
        All that is needed is for the locomotive to be from someone else’s railway section.
        And so that it goes like a letter, and how to load it ... the military cargo is full.
        1. svp67
          svp67 12 October 2019 19: 02
          +7
          Quote: Victor_B
          Well, as part of the diversion of agents, you can run at least three dozen false trains.

          No need to let anything superfluous. Thank God, but there is very heavy traffic on our railways, so it's not difficult to get lost on them
          Quote: Victor_B
          All that is needed is for the locomotive to be from someone else’s railway section.

          I think this can be solved by periodically changing inscriptions on locomotives and adding and decreasing false cars ...
          Quote: Victor_B
          And so that it goes like a letter, and how to load it ... the military cargo is full.

          The tactics of their application have been worked out and systematized, so that they will get the old instructions, blow off the dust, "shamanize" a little, in the light of new realities and go
          1. Victor_B
            Victor_B 12 October 2019 19: 10
            +6
            Quote: svp67
            I think this can be solved by periodically changing inscriptions on locomotives and adding and decreasing false cars ...

            The fact is that the old BZHRK "rocket train" could be identified by any trackman from 100 meters by eye.
            And with a lighter missile, the wagons will not at all differ from ordinary refs.
            And cruise missiles, interspersed with ballistic missiles, can generally be placed on platforms in 40-foot containers, looking like ordinary ones, to be placed.
            Well, military lettering ordinary locomotives carry trains on their sections. With a shift.
            1. svp67
              svp67 13 October 2019 05: 09
              0
              Quote: Victor_B
              The fact is that the old BZHRK "rocket train" could be identified by any trackman from 100 meters by eye.

              Well, the presence of an "extra" wheelset is hard not to notice, even for an ordinary person
              Quote: Victor_B
              And cruise missiles, interspersed with ballistic missiles, can generally be placed on platforms in 40-foot containers, looking like ordinary ones, to be placed.

              Yes, modern technology provides an opportunity for maneuver. The difficulty with security, especially when stopping at stations, means they must be passed without stops, and for them to use not hub stations, but small stations and change them every time.
            2. saigon
              saigon 13 October 2019 07: 28
              +2
              I don’t know to what extent old rocket carriers with a retractable platform were old, only they looked like luggage cars with doors at the end of the car. .
            3. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 13 October 2019 08: 51
              +1
              It is necessary to mask either under covered or under fitting platforms with containers, or under the cars of the passenger fleet. There are no more re-sections on the road network.
            4. kuz363
              kuz363 14 October 2019 14: 48
              0
              And where will a 2500 km cruise missile fly from the Urals or Siberia? Only in their own way. It has long been necessary to stop praying for these Caliber, like the navel of the earth. And by the number of calibres Russia is far behind after the United States. And one of their destroyers in the number of Tomahawks exceeds the entire stock of Caliber of the Black Sea Fleet!
          2. Sergey M. Karasev
            Sergey M. Karasev 13 October 2019 17: 23
            +1
            Quote: Victor_B
            All that is needed is for the locomotive to be from someone else’s railway section.

            I think this can be solved by periodically changing inscriptions on locomotives and adding and decreasing false cars ...

            The inscriptions on the locomotives are optional. now often not only PM, but also the home road on locomotives do not write, only the Russian Railways logo.
            1. Amurets
              Amurets 14 October 2019 00: 21
              0
              Quote: Sergey Mikhailovich Karasev
              The inscriptions on the locomotives are optional. now often not only PM, but also the home road on locomotives do not write, only the Russian Railways logo.
              Pay attention to the 8-digit code on the sides of the rolling stock.

              "Eight-digit designation system for rolling stock (SS) of railways
              Since 1984 on the USSR main railways an eight-digit rolling stock designation system has been introduced. The reason for its introduction was the creation of a database and their processing in industrial computer centers in connection with the development of computer technology on the railways, as well as the need for a quick search for wagons in a large territory of the country. Such a system simplifies the maintenance of technical documentation, while for a traction substation it also improves the operational planning of its maintenance and repairs. Eight-digit numbers are assigned to each unit (wagon, section) of a traction, non-traction and special substation and are marked on them (on both sides of the side surfaces of the wagons, cabs of locomotive drivers). On passenger cars, such designations are applied in two lines, one above the other (three digits above, five digits below them). On all other PS units, the numbers are plotted in one line. The designation of the traction PS series and (through the dash) the serial numbers of their units (assigned by the manufacturer) on the end surfaces of the sections, buffer bars and other designated places is preserved. These numbers are the 5th, 6th, 7th digits of the 8-digit code of the traction PS, if they are three-digit. For 4-digit numbers and numbers of two- and many sectional locomotives, MVPS the formation of a new code.
              / Eight-digit designation system for the rolling stock (PS) of the railways% 20% 20 Well carriages ...% 20% 20 Vkontakte.htm
        2. _Sergei_
          _Sergei_ 12 October 2019 19: 18
          +3
          They looked like refrigerators. A civil engineer instructor sat on each locomotive. So the railroad workers knew which train was on. Just then there were a lot of refrigerators.
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 12 October 2019 20: 01
            +8
            Anyone could distinguish those refrigerators; they had three-axle carts.
            1. SHURUM -BURUM
              SHURUM -BURUM 12 October 2019 22: 15
              +2
              And there were also platforms with three-axle carts, on which stood at a decent interval from each other 3 luminous (in appearance) tanks, similar to large flattened milk cans. On the side of each can, apparently for idiots, was the inscription "Cement". Even then I drew attention to the absurdity of the inscription and the excessive power of the platform. I think someone has seen this too.
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 13 October 2019 07: 30
                +1
                There was not lumin, but a good 4-mm stainless steel: UDMH was taken to them.
                But this is not only for good "fellows", the voivode was also a drink, there were no TT engines for strategists at that time, and alcohol and kerosene could not carry such weights in acceptable dimensions.
            2. saigon
              saigon 13 October 2019 07: 24
              0
              Yes, from which re-feed the three axes on the ref section car? There is either an old CMV or just a freight trolley. Moreover, the ref section is mainly four refrigerators and a car with a diesel generator.
              1. Ural-4320
                Ural-4320 13 October 2019 07: 53
                0
                It was on the trolley that the ordinary ref was distinguished from the unusual. Look at the photo of the BZHRK in the museum.
              2. hydrox
                hydrox 13 October 2019 08: 12
                +1
                It is immediately obvious: either the Unified State Examination generation or all his life spent in Mukhoy! 100 km from the railway station and did not go on business trips to see what was in question, but was not shown to suckers. It doesn’t even occur to him that for BZHRK, resection is just a camouflage dummy, and if he had seen the thickness of those axes, he would have gone completely insane ... lol
                1. saigon
                  saigon 13 October 2019 12: 51
                  0
                  Well, of course, as well as trains for nuclear bombs, they also looked like a ref section. And there are transporters for special cargoes both in the cart and along the 4 axis.
                  .A where does the axle diameter if the axleboxes are standard, the bearings are standard, and the axle of a pair of wheels of more than one diameter along the entire length of the axis, does the axle diameter decrease towards the middle?
            3. _Sergei_
              _Sergei_ 13 October 2019 09: 43
              0
              The satellite does not show a triaxial or biaxial cart. And before, there were a lot of refrigerated cars, but now it is very rare.
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 13 October 2019 10: 34
                -1
                So this is because Putin gave all fishing to the liberoids from the Pr-va, and they all registered it abroad, that's why people are sitting without fish, and tax officials are without taxes, but no one can unprotect this gangster cootla.
                And then the maintenance crews would run on the Russian Railways for 20 pairs a day, and the Yankees spies would go crazy, counting the number of axles in the wagons of the wagons, and pounding the sleeper with a jammed radiometer laughing
              2. Amurets
                Amurets 14 October 2019 00: 47
                -1
                Quote: _Sergey_
                The satellite does not show a triaxial or biaxial cart. And before, there were a lot of refrigerated cars, but now it is very rare.

                Dachto all of you rested: "The satellite is not visible." There were a bunch of other unmasking signs, not on the train, but on the locomotive. Therefore, if you happen to see somewhere in the vastness of our railways a single-section diesel locomotive with "square" block buffer lamps, adjustable by a blizzard, or even manage to see the number plate "DM62-No. Such and such" on it, you should know, most likely these are the same locomotives that proudly drove the country's nuclear shield. https://zen.yandex.ru/media/1520/eti-teplovozy-vozili-iadernyi-scit-strany-i-rabotaiut-po-sei-den-rasskaz-mashinista-5c5b4e5a2c438f00adf69964
    5. dauria
      dauria 12 October 2019 18: 51
      +18
      Moreover, Yarses are lighter and smaller than Well done and can be reliably disguised as a regular freight train.


      Those who invented this weapon were not morons. There is no need to disguise it. Let’s say, beyond the Urals, a train goes back and forth along a dead-end protected branch 50 km long. He stands, goes, changes speed, goes the other way. According to a random schedule. Suppose, at the moment A, the enemy precisely detected his position. Rocket flight beyond the Urals from Europe A + 10 min. In 10 minutes the train will be anywhere + - 7 km from the point where it was spotted. For a nuclear munition, such a slip is unacceptable, the train is harmless to zero.
      And there are no self-guided ones yet. When they invent it, it will mean that the entire US carrier fleet will turn into garbage. laughing
      Throw the entire plot of 50 km with nuclear charges every 3 km - you are welcome, the alignment is in our favor.
      No guys, the Americans did not panic in vain. This thing is more serious than a submarine. At least a tail can be attached to the boat.
      1. _Sergei_
        _Sergei_ 12 October 2019 19: 20
        +8
        In Altai, he walked in a circle. The circle was approximately 700km
      2. Cympak
        Cympak 13 October 2019 02: 48
        +2
        I saw many times these "refrigerators" at one provincial station, when I went to the dacha.
      3. kuz363
        kuz363 14 October 2019 14: 55
        -1
        Just because there is no homing now does not mean that it will never be. Progress Can't Stop
        1. dauria
          dauria 14 October 2019 15: 04
          +1
          Progress does not stop


          Of course, do not stop. It will appear - the alignment will change. Both trains and aircraft carriers will be a thing of the past. How did the cavalry, battleships, next in line manned aircraft ... This does not mean that right now we must abandon the effective means. To do this, they keep smart people for a lot of money - to make out, count, predict the direction of development. When projects of such a scale are adopted, they do not dismiss opponents, but listen very carefully.
    6. g1v2
      g1v2 12 October 2019 18: 57
      -18
      Why the devil is he needed? There are mine and mobile-based yarses, there will be Sarmatians. There are submarines, there are strategic bombers. Do figs produce entities? It is not easier to build an extra submarine or an extra regiment of yars.
      1. Grits
        Grits 13 October 2019 02: 00
        +6
        Quote: g1v2
        It is not easier to build an extra submarine or an extra regiment of yars.

        Not easier. Can you imagine the cost of a strategic nuclear missile submarine cruiser? And how much with this money can you build BRD?
        In addition, the nuclear submarine is always at risk that it can be tailed by the enemy’s network at any time with the possibility of instant destruction. And what will sit on the tail of the BRD in the vast Siberia?
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 14 October 2019 01: 18
          0
          Quote: Gritsa
          In addition, the nuclear submarine is always at risk that it can be tailed by the enemy’s network at any time with the possibility of instant destruction.

          Especially if the SSBN is located at the base and can shoot being practically at the pier. lol
      2. hydrox
        hydrox 13 October 2019 08: 30
        0
        Do not simplify: strategic bombers have long been reluctant to carry bombs: their task is to destroy the US missile defense systems, perhaps with the use of small-caliber nuclear weapons.
        PLAs are unreliable and do not guarantee a strategic salvo schedule; the surface fleet is not included in the strategic order of forces at all.
        All that remains is the ground, aviation hypersonic and underwater non-mobile (Poseidon) components, on the basis of which it is possible to build a schedule for a retaliatory destroy strike.
    7. Ural-4320
      Ural-4320 12 October 2019 19: 03
      +5
      Yes, there were other trolleys under the refrigerator section. But the carriage notices everything, but does not hand over anyone. "This is our hard lot."
    8. astepanov
      astepanov 12 October 2019 19: 18
      +1
      Well, since the editor of the magazine has spoken, they will definitely listen to him and revive him. And they will tell everyone, and they will be sure to report to Korotchenko: "Your order has been fulfilled, comrade editor! We will provide you the route and schedule for publication tomorrow!"
      If my memory serves me, the existence of "Barguzin" was not particularly advertised. Maybe because Mr. Korotchenko was not an editor?
    9. venik
      venik 12 October 2019 19: 33
      0
      Quote: Victor_B
      Although how can they not track if the train with its own steam train is traveling?

      ==========
      Unless with the help of sensitive radiometers .... The heads are sound ... request
      1. Tersky
        Tersky 12 October 2019 22: 54
        0
        Quote: venik
        Unless with the help of sensitive radiometers .... G

        winked Maybe with dosimeters ...
        1. venik
          venik 13 October 2019 12: 15
          +1
          Quote: Tersky
          Maybe with dosimeters ...

          =========
          No, just RADIOMETERS! Dosimeter determines the ACCUMULATED dose (or dose rate) of ionizing radiation during its stay in the irradiation zone, whereas radiometer - the density of the flux of particles or quanta through the detector window (Geiger or scintillation). In everyday life, these concepts are often confused - as army devices DP-5 (field dosimeter) are more correctly called radiometers!!!
      2. hydrox
        hydrox 13 October 2019 08: 42
        0
        The radiometer does not determine the material of the signal emitter (the more so it does not determine the number of nuclear warheads), and it’s practically worthless to drive several hundred simulators on the country's roads to complete the task of blocking the useful signal of any field type radiometer with the background.
        1. venik
          venik 13 October 2019 12: 24
          +2
          Quote: hydrox
          The radiometer does not detect the material of the signal emitter

          ==========
          Hello to you !!! Yah? For this there are "radiometers-spectrometers" !!! The radiation spectrum can also be used to determine the material (for example, to distinguish uranium from plutonium, etc.). Although there is no particular need for this!
          And there is no need to count the number of heads - just install a highly sensitive "radiometer" next to the canvas (and they can be very compact) - and "vo a la!" -when passing cars with "nuclear filling" - it will register a surge in intensity !!
          1. saigon
            saigon 13 October 2019 12: 55
            +2
            You can even imagine how much nuclear crap fusses around, but the spies will jump off their minds having considered what the meter measures it.
            1. hydrox
              hydrox 13 October 2019 16: 58
              +1
              Don’t distract the little man: I’m talking about a field radiometer like a dosimeter, and he’s talking about a spectrometer the size of a two-story cottage with a two-story basement! laughing
              1. venik
                venik 13 October 2019 19: 00
                +1
                Quote: hydrox
                Don’t distract the little man: I’m talking about a field radiometer like a dosimeter, and he’s talking about a spectrometer the size of a two-story cottage with a two-story basement! laughing

                =========
                I don't know WHERE you saw a spectrometer the size of a "two-story cottage with a two-story basement" ("they don't live so long!") .... But the GDR "Robotron" which it used about 35 years ago had the height and width of a small diplomat (only 2.5-3 times thicker) and weighed approx. 3 kg !!! fool I doubt very much that since then such a technique has become HEAVIER and BIGGER !!!
                Well, if you have never seen anything other than a field radiometer DP-5 (A or B) in your life does not mean that there is NO such technique! By the way Hungarian field NC-425 dosimeters were almost half the size of the DP-5, and 4 times the weight! In addition, they were allowed to tune to various types of radiation)
                PS Do you see the gopher? No! And he IS !!!
                PPS Funny of course watching the attempts amateur, insert your "5 kopecks" but get bored very quickly!
                1. hydrox
                  hydrox 13 October 2019 19: 18
                  -1
                  EVERYTHING, everything! Get credit and calm down, just do not litter the space with your school offenders! negative
                  1. venik
                    venik 13 October 2019 23: 06
                    +1
                    Quote: hydrox
                    EVERYTHING, everything! Get credit and calm down, just do not litter the space with your school offenders! negative

                    =========
                    Take offense? On people like you? What do you! They are not offended by such stop ... those are sorry!
            2. venik
              venik 13 October 2019 19: 26
              +1
              Quote: saigon
              You can even imagine how much nuclear crap fusses around, but the spies will jump off their minds having considered what the meter measures it.

              ========
              Well, actually it is POSSIBLE to distinguish a nuclear warhead from uranium ore or radioactive waste or fuel elements .....
              The question just arose: "Is it possible to identify" YaBCH in the passing train "? The answer is - it is POSSIBLE!
              Another question is - HOW MUCH such devices need to (covertly) be dragged into the territory of the Russian Federation and installed (covertly) along ALL highways? The answer is oooooooo !!! what
              It is possible, of course, to "detect" from low-orbit satellites .... But here are the questions - firstly, the satellite must pass almost exactly over the train, while it transmits information, until it is decoded and processed - WHERE will this train end up ???
              Because BZHRK and effective - too fast move in space !!
          2. hydrox
            hydrox 13 October 2019 16: 53
            0
            I am familiar with such a spectrometer :: it requires a separate building for its installation (it’s just the spy that fits in your pants pocket!) - fantasize further, I already caught you on this ...
            1. venik
              venik 13 October 2019 19: 14
              +1
              Quote: hydrox
              I am familiar with such a spectrometer :: it requires a separate building for its installation (it’s just the right way to wear a spy in your pants pocket!)

              ===========
              Yah!!! And I did not know this and dragged his darling under my arm ....... request Well, I'm a healthy man! laughing wink
              But in general, after such an application, it became clear that you, my dear, have never seen such devices in your eyes !!! Here we got the sweetest !! .....
    10. hydrox
      hydrox 12 October 2019 19: 53
      0
      By the way, parking lots for sludge BZHRK are located SO that no one sees him, therefore, before the locomotives, the railroad should not have any questions.
      As for lettering, this is generally laughter: all the schedules are made on a computer and the BZHRK schedule can be made so that it follows the schedule of an ordinary commodity and does not attract anybody else's attention.
    11. signifera
      signifera 12 October 2019 19: 53
      +2
      I’ll add as a former railwayman, and then served in military transport. These trains, in addition to the non-standard number of locomotives (steam locomotives, as you call them), also have unusual colors, they immediately catch my eye - something is wrong here winked ... Plus the layout of such cars, which should not be nearby, not to mention additional locomotives. What is his invisibility, I still do not understand. Immediately visible. Who knows what to look for - will find it right away. An ordinary civilian manager who sits behind pieces of paper will not understand. And the enemy scout will immediately calculate. Very dubious "stealth". New developments to place missiles in containers is also nonsense. If a locomotive carries three wagons with containers, it is immediately clear that this is not an ordinary train. Now, if the launcher were to be made autonomous, filled with ordinary cargo and driven over the network, this is the case. And so all these are fairy tales for ordinary people.
      1. Ural-4320
        Ural-4320 12 October 2019 20: 39
        +4
        Well, partly you are right, but not quite. Where they run, such ligaments are in use, which can easily become familiar. 8-axle tanks frequented us once in the Kaliningrad region. Here was a shock from grandparents-retirees. They remember the shunting locomotives, they remember the twin trains to Vilnius, but they saw the 8-axles in the region for the first time.
        1. saigon
          saigon 13 October 2019 12: 59
          +1
          You can estimate the shock in the year somewhere 86-87 at the sorting in Krasnoyarsk the same 120-ton tank cracked in half and dripped on the way drinking alcohol that's where the shock was
          1. Ural-4320
            Ural-4320 13 October 2019 22: 32
            +1
            This is tough !!! Were such tanks allowed for dissolution? Although the grandfathers at work talked about such flights that the hair was on end, but the heads did not fly, because the movement was frantic and no one had time to debrief. It was enough that the rolling stock was serviceable. They say that they did not pay attention to the sliders, if only "the wheel was not square."
            I was already blown for the lack of a chain on the bleed valve and the broken handle of the end crane.
            1. bubalik
              bubalik 13 October 2019 23: 03
              0
              hi ,,, and the tragedy in Syzran 1980g?
            2. saigon
              saigon 14 October 2019 14: 58
              0
              Well, I can’t understand about the slider either, on the cargo admission to the slider more than on the passenger, but to the other in the cargo discharge cargo?
              Some kind of strange logic when releasing from the point of formation on wheelsets of a passenger car any serviceability is not allowed, but on the cargo from TO to TO and tolerances and, again, to a friend in a cargo explosive OPS
      2. prapor55
        prapor55 13 October 2019 05: 54
        +1
        The first sensible comment. hi
      3. hydrox
        hydrox 13 October 2019 17: 05
        0
        And who's stopping you?
        You take two 40-foot containers under the control and control units, and a passenger service wagon - and the mobile CLUB is ready, it will reach 1,5 kilograms - described 10 years ago.
        1. signifera
          signifera 13 October 2019 17: 56
          -1
          Ie two containers, a passenger car and a locomotive? Correctly? Everyone in the country will see such a bunch and poke a finger in a year already, such as this: look, a rocket train!))) It’s long been forbidden to put freight wagons and passenger cars together, it’s impossible. They will open right away. Plus a train from several wagons is also nonsense. A plus here I see only mobility and the incomprehensibility of where he will go, but he will not turn off the highway, anyway, the restriction on maneuver. It seems better to drive wagons to me. All over the country, and all, try to find them. A plus in refueling trucks and other options. Here they can be distilled anywhere you like, to the same Ukraine, they won’t find them))) or they won’t see them for grandmas. That NATO will be surprised. And to mask on the railway is all nonsense, I without special preparation and tolerances calculated super-secret trains while working on the railway.
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 13 October 2019 18: 49
            0
            Well, so drive your wagons, but it's more expensive ...
      4. hydrox
        hydrox 13 October 2019 17: 10
        0
        What they caught the eye of was steam locomotives: they always had bright green, clean and shiny!
    12. Berkut752
      Berkut752 12 October 2019 20: 06
      +1
      Follow the news and you will be happy, and not read the old news.
    13. regulus
      regulus 12 October 2019 20: 23
      -5
      The gut is thin, the polymers have already profiled. There is no one to collect the Barguzins.
    14. ROSS_51
      ROSS_51 12 October 2019 21: 17
      +6
      And with 2-meter conductors in combat unloading ..
      It has already happened when, back in the GDR, during exercises, 2-meter signalmen came to the combined-arms canteen and demanded their increased amphibious rations ..)
      1. Rwmos
        Rwmos 13 October 2019 22: 18
        0
        So sorry there are such. well - because the signalmen) The truth is somewhere nearby always Strategic Missile Forces
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 14 October 2019 11: 52
        0
        Quote: ROSS_51
        It has already happened when, back in the GDR, during exercises, 2-meter signalmen came to the combined-arms canteen and demanded their increased amphibious rations ..)

        It is strange that you have not heard about this norm, according to which all tall military personnel received additional nutrition:
        Extra food for military personnel
        conscripts and others
        contingents with a height of 190 centimeters and above
        55. Military personnel on military service, having a height of 190 cm and above, are allowed to give out additional food within half of the food rations provided for them. Supplementary meals are prescribed by order of the commander of a military unit based on the conclusion of the military medical commission or the head of the medical service of the military unit.
        Cash compensation and food and travel money in return for food rations to the military personnel specified in this clause shall be paid in one and a half amount from the established amount of monetary compensation (food and travel money).
        1. ROSS_51
          ROSS_51 14 October 2019 12: 37
          0
          Nothing strange considering that I served in the SA. In the Airborne Forces then there were increased oil rates and something else (I don't remember)). As far as I understand, the presence of rapid deployment troops was prohibited in the GSVG, so they went there as "signalmen".
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 14 October 2019 13: 11
            0
            Quote: ROSS_51
            Nothing strange, considering that I served in the SA.

            So in CA these standards also existed - you are simply not in the subject.
            Quote: ROSS_51
            As far as I understand, the presence of rapid deployment troops was prohibited in the GSVG, so they went there as "signalmen".

            The GSVG had one DShBr, five Oshb, one Special Forces brigade, five separate companies of the Special Forces and twenty-five long-range reconnaissance companies in reconnaissance battalions. And all of them were deployed to the states of peacetime, wore amphibious uniforms, so that "no rapid deployment troops" were required in the GSVG. They really got a different dietary rate - that's a fact. Therefore, either you were misled, or you yourself did not understand who was in front of you. By the way, there is a special radio communications detachment in the Special Forces brigade, so most likely you saw them if they came to the exercises or worked out their tasks. It's just that humorists usually serve there, so they wove you three boxes ...
            1. ROSS_51
              ROSS_51 14 October 2019 13: 43
              0
              You don’t understand .. This was my SPN company changed into signalmen.) And there was a communication group in my company — do you seriously think that they wore the form of signalmen?
              By the way, I also learned to tie a tie in the Airborne Forces. Can you imagine a company that, on command, do it once !, learns to knit a tie?)
              But that's another story)
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 14 October 2019 13: 58
                0
                Quote: ROSS_51
                This is my company SpN dressed up as signalmen.)

                Something I don’t remember, that the companies of the Special Forces from the Union arrived in the GSVG - at least for five years I don’t remember this.
                Quote: ROSS_51
                And there was a communication group in my company — do you seriously think that they wore the form of signalmen?

                I know very well that everyone in the company wore the same uniform. I do not understand the masquerade itself with dressing up as "signalmen" if they had a "mobuta", as far as I remember, and even the winter was envisaged. Although I admit that individual turbulences happened among our commanders, and they apparently thought that the work of the correspondent stations of this company could be passed off as a liaison, although any specialist understands that this is nonsense, and our enemy is not so stupid as not to identify communications sessions.
                Quote: ROSS_51
                Can you imagine a company that, on command, do it once !, learns to knit a tie?)

                Honestly, I have not heard about this, but I do not exclude it.
                Quote: ROSS_51
                But that's another story)

                I agree, there are many different stories that happened that are not entirely clear from the point of view of the inhabitants.
    15. IL-18
      IL-18 12 October 2019 22: 21
      -1
      Quote: Victor_B
      It's time

      This is a message from Korotchenko. That one ... That's when other sources will be, then you can discuss.
    16. NEXUS
      NEXUS 12 October 2019 22: 59
      +3
      Quote: Victor_B
      Moreover, Yarses are lighter and smaller than Well done and can be reliably disguised as a regular freight train.

      In fact, it was thought that it was not YRSs (RS-24) that were set on Barguzin, but Rubezhi (RS-26), which is twice as light as YRS, 80 tons against 40 at Rubezh.
      1. Grits
        Grits 13 October 2019 02: 07
        0
        Quote: NEXUS
        In fact, it was thought that it was not YRSs (RS-24) that were set on Barguzin, but Rubezhi (RS-26), which is twice as light as YRS, 80 tons against 40 at Rubezh.

        Also good. But then the missiles will not reach the main adversary. Only to their mongrel.
    17. Deck
      Deck 13 October 2019 07: 50
      +3
      And why did their traitors cut in the 2000s? When will they be responsible for this?
      1. armata_armata
        armata_armata 13 October 2019 08: 27
        +2
        And why did their traitors cut in the 2000s? When will they be responsible for this?

        When these traitors leave the government, then according to the experience of the 90s they will talk about it even then at the semi-official level ...
        In general, not earlier than 2024
  2. Aerodrome
    Aerodrome 12 October 2019 18: 14
    +12
    Russia may revive Barguzin’s BJRK project in response to new US missiles
    too many of these "cans" ... just do it!
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 12 October 2019 20: 49
      +2
      It makes sense to revive these train formations if the states deploy medium-range missiles in the EU. hi
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 13 October 2019 08: 48
        0
        A perfectly reasonable answer may come to the suicidal initiative of the States.
  3. Honest Citizen
    Honest Citizen 12 October 2019 18: 14
    +5
    According to Korotchenko, Russia may consider reviving the project of a military railway missile complex,

    Now I really do not understand. What does "can consider" mean? Actually, it was time to start implementation yesterday. And so that tomorrow they would go across endless spaces.
    1. Den717
      Den717 12 October 2019 18: 29
      0
      Quote: Honest Citizen
      Actually, yesterday it was time to start implementation. And that tomorrow they would go through the vast expanses.

      Are you sure that yesterday did not start something that is not yet time to talk about on the screen? In any case, the command to "land" the caliber has already sounded, and for a long time. I think who should remember about "Club ...." These "container" proposals fit well into the commands that were given. It is possible that they, these works on the BZHRK, like those gophers, are not visible or audible, but they are being carried out.
      1. Honest Citizen
        Honest Citizen 12 October 2019 19: 07
        +1
        Your words, yes to God’s ears. Well, if so.
  4. tol100v
    tol100v 12 October 2019 18: 15
    +4
    Yes, we utilized a lot for the joy of the Enemies!
    1. hydrox
      hydrox 12 October 2019 20: 07
      +2
      We didn’t recycle it: the process was led by the Pr-in, and we have it liberoid.
      1. KERMET
        KERMET 13 October 2019 08: 13
        0
        A non-resilient such disposal, one of the complexes at the time of destruction was on duty for only 11 years ...
  5. mavrus
    mavrus 12 October 2019 18: 15
    +2
    Everything was ... but the disposal has passed ...
    Now you need to create a new one.
    1. venik
      venik 12 October 2019 19: 43
      -2
      Quote: mavrus
      Everything was ... but the disposal has passed ...

      =========
      With the "Well done" - there was a big problem: Because of the huge weight (the rocket alone weighed more than 100 tons) - they simply broke the track ... Therefore, the missiles were stored at bases, and traveled along the roads empty trains (!!) - drivers and crews trained. It was assumed that in the event of a "aggravation of the situation" - the missiles would be loaded and taken to the launch site ..... So the complex was, let's face it - "boundedly-mobile".
      Now the situation has changed - "Yars" weighs less than 50 tons (according to some sources) and therefore the possibility of reviving the BZHRK (and REALLY highly mobile!) becomes a reality! Would there be money .....
      1. prapor55
        prapor55 13 October 2019 05: 58
        +4
        Here you are wrong, as a person who served as a 36 rd engineer, I can speak for sure.
        1. venik
          venik 13 October 2019 12: 40
          +2
          Quote: prapor55
          Here you are wrong, as a person who served as a 36 rd engineer, I can speak for sure.

          =======
          Well, I did not serve there, I just read and listened - therefore "for what I bought - for what I sell" !! request
  6. cniza
    cniza 12 October 2019 18: 18
    +8
    Russia may revive Barguzin’s BJRK project in response to new US missiles


    We must not speak, but do ...
  7. GRF
    GRF 12 October 2019 18: 18
    +2
    can revive, can write off
    chickens do not peck without responsibility or money?
  8. ccsr
    ccsr 12 October 2019 18: 19
    -1
    Earlier, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov, answering the question whether Russia would return to the BZHRK project after the US exited the INF Treaty, replied that this was unlikely to happen, but added that it was his personal opinion.
    ..... In the days of the Soviet Union, the Strategic Missile Forces had three divisions, each including four BZHRK "Molodets". Thus, twelve "nuclear trains" carried 36 missiles, each of which carried 10 warheads. Utilization of the BZHRK took place in 2003-2006.

    Of course it won't, because the USSR had about 18-20% of world GDP, and today's Russia is much less. So it’s not surprising - we simply don’t have the finances to resume this program, which is why, most likely, the Deputy Prime Minister told the truth, although he stipulated it “with his own opinion”. Korotchenko's wishful thinking is obvious.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 12 October 2019 18: 54
      -14
      "The USSR had about 18-20% of the world's GDP" - And a big deal in the pocket from the export of all these products, which the USSR supplied to 120 world parasites, since Russia is now earning money from its exports. BZHRK is too complex and expensive system - and the enemy's reconnaissance means, compared to the 80s, have gone far ahead.
      1. venik
        venik 12 October 2019 19: 49
        +8
        Quote: Vadim237
        BZHRK too complex and expensive system - and the means of reconnaissance of the enemy compared with the 80s went far ahead.

        ==========
        Even if modern reconnaissance means (can you tell me in what way?) It is possible to "spot" such a train, then can you tell HOW to retarget an ICBM at it (it takes into account that it "spits" along a track at a speed of 80-100 km / h, and its route is not predictable - it can turn off at any railway junction !!
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 12 October 2019 21: 50
          -9
          What kind of - yes, the same satellites are spies and satellites of the missile defense missile defense system that the United States has, and for all railway nodes tactical drones can work together BRDS - the road is destroyed and everything has stopped.
        2. Grits
          Grits 13 October 2019 02: 13
          +3
          Quote: venik
          Even if modern reconnaissance means (can you tell me in what way?) It is possible to "spot" such a train, then can you tell HOW to retarget an ICBM at it (it takes into account that it "spits" along a track at a speed of 80-100 km / h, and its route is not predictable - it can turn off at any railway junction !!

          Do not try to convince the supporters of the Navalny and Co. sect. For such - the American aircraft carrier formation is not possible to find, but to destroy it is an insoluble task. And their F-35 is invisible. But in their understanding, calculating the BRZD by some criteria is worth nothing. And to destroy with a "smart and beautiful" American missile is easier than a steamed turnip.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 13 October 2019 12: 05
            -2
            You are to me your idols - do not ascribe trumps.
    2. AAK
      AAK 12 October 2019 19: 03
      +6
      And there are finances, the price of one ICBM for a BZHRK is much cheaper than a PGRK, not to mention a silo rocket or an SSBN, and we are building quite a few of them. In addition, there is nothing to defend our SSBNs either on water or under water. Especially on the Barguzin, unlike the Molodets, not 3, but 6 ICBMs.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 12 October 2019 19: 08
        -12
        The composition will always be more expensive than a machine, and binding to a piece of iron drastically reduces the area of ​​movement of the complexes, compare the length of railways and roads - unpaved, asphalt concrete pavements.
        1. Naive
          Naive 12 October 2019 20: 37
          +6
          And you try to move the wheeled chassis with a rocket relatively secretively for 500 km.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 12 October 2019 21: 44
            -6
            You won’t hide the train either, since the coordinates of the places where the trains are based, as well as the PGRK, will be known to the enemy - the equipment and the spy satellite grouping has gone far ahead - the best thing now is to reduce the weight and size of the ICBMs using more powerful gunpowder for turbojet engines, more miniature warheads, control systems and lighter but more durable materials.
  9. evgen1221
    evgen1221 12 October 2019 18: 21
    0
    Well, everyone can express their opinion on this issue, they can do tea on their own money, they will not force ways, shelters and other things.
  10. Thrifty
    Thrifty 12 October 2019 18: 23
    -1
    Our liberties from the government will bury any good beginnings. ..
    1. knn54
      knn54 12 October 2019 18: 38
      +4
      The "London" shareholders of Russian Railways will be against it.
  11. eagle owl
    eagle owl 12 October 2019 18: 25
    -2
    I don't see any connection ... The withdrawal from the INF Treaty carries, of course, the revival of the threat of a "decapitating strike" and the work of these SD and MDs on the launching and disposition of strategists, but one dog - the RSD - is not an enemy to those who are behind the Urals ... For example ... They cannot do anything against the 62nd division, which they cannot do in the Krasnoyarsk Territory, even in theory. And her alone is enough.
    Trains - a good topic, but terribly expensive, because the tripods could not be made at all - the navel came loose. And we also have options now, abruptly trains
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 12 October 2019 18: 59
      -3
      Quote: Uhu
      For instance. They are nothing against the 62nd division, which in the Krasnoyarsk Territory - they can’t do, even in theory.

      That's why we need to transfer part of our nuclear potential to that region, protecting ourselves from the missile defense system in Poland and Romania. And for this, it is not necessary to create a BZHRK, but in order to save money, build new silos, which will provide a guaranteed retaliation strike.
      1. eagle owl
        eagle owl 12 October 2019 21: 28
        +1
        Stupid thing, but I will say.
        "Look, the mines. Great, but everyone knows that they have been
        seen from orbit. If anything - will your work? Although you have a mobile one, it’s not so good. Like a goat on a leash that is not 5 meters away, it does not play, you will not run away from your area. Without saying where the launches are possible, with a sudden attack - you will not run far. and it’s not in vain that your hangar opens ... //
  12. Stils
    Stils 12 October 2019 18: 25
    -5
    Eh, Korotchenko, Korotchenko .... dreams, dreams, dreams ... although useful idios you always need Russian authorities !!
  13. FRoman1984
    FRoman1984 12 October 2019 18: 30
    +3
    It would be better if the economy was revived in response to US sanctions. But apparently not a priority ...
  14. APASUS
    APASUS 12 October 2019 18: 32
    +2
    Russia may revive the project of the Barguzin combat railway missile system (BZHRK), this opinion was expressed by the editor-in-chief of the National Defense magazine Igor Korotchenko.

    Russia may or may not create. Another predictor, Korochenkov, in the wake of Rogozin
  15. I must
    I must 12 October 2019 18: 40
    +2
    When I read such bravura news about missiles and retaliatory strikes, for some reason I ask myself the question, will there be that "deflected strike" and so vividly imagine: here the president's finger reaches for the red button "key to start" and all around are assistants, generals and perhaps even Kremlin cooks throw themselves on their knees and lament: "Vladimir Vladimirovich, dear, dear you are ours, don't ruin it, there is a house in Florida, kids, my beloved girls, the only ones in Ella study ... We are Russia, like we will endure, and they are there, our girls like? ... ". And this is in the best case, otherwise they will twist their hands, they will say, what are you, completely crazy, houses, yachts, capital, kids!
  16. samarin1969
    samarin1969 12 October 2019 18: 44
    +5
    6-7 years ago, indeed, Mr. Korotchenko's forecasts and threats could be taken into account. Now - it's just the "Skabeeva tribe". bully
  17. rocket757
    rocket757 12 October 2019 18: 47
    +1
    The territory is large, it’s a plus ..... but it’s very useful to have rockets close, close to the potential enemy.
    The Club project is much more preferable in this respect.
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 12 October 2019 19: 58
      +4
      Quote: rocket757
      The territory is large, it’s a plus ..... but it’s very useful to have rockets close, close to a potential enemy

      Under the Union, the 5th OpEsk included cruisers pr. 68bis, which, like a pistol at the temple, were always assigned to aircraft carriers of Amers. Morality - in the case of a faq, within a few minutes a flurry of 152 mm shells hit the enemy, causing unacceptable damage to the enemy ... Exchange in tenge in our favor is an outdated cruiser for an aircraft carrier. It seems archaic, but practical. The Americans considered this to be a real threat, but they couldn’t drive away the Russian Federation’s non-threatening ships as they were today — they were really afraid and respected soldier
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 12 October 2019 21: 27
        +2
        Just regret that there was no point.
        We must live in the world that is and do whatever is necessary so that this world is preserved.
  18. Babur_Imperat
    Babur_Imperat 12 October 2019 18: 47
    -14
    It’s already useless at the level of technology that the United States possesses today, their systems detect any missiles from the Russian Federation and are escorted to the place of destruction, they conducted many tests, one of which was launching a rocket from an island closer to Turkey towards western Germany, the system instantly detected it was destroyed, it was destroyed within 5 minutes after the launch, they created a multi-level defense defense that starts from Europe to America, today it is impossible to go through such a pro, on top of that they are improving all this at a rapid pace.
    1. dirk182
      dirk182 12 October 2019 19: 04
      -1
      if it’s impossible to get through, then you have to get around) and this .... IMPOSSIBLE. The Russian man has always been distinguished by his ingenuity, intelligence and quick wit. The solutions were simple but effective. And if the leadership of the country restrains itself from the temptation, then the people will pull together. The Great Patriotic War was won not by Stalin, not communism, but by a simple Russian soldier. God forbid, of course. World Peace.
      1. AUL
        AUL 12 October 2019 19: 23
        +8
        100% impenetrable remedies do not even exist theoretically. And in practice - even more so. Do you believe US missile defense advertisements? Even if 25% of the missiles launched break through to the target, the adversary will have to be very sour. I do not think that such a prospect will please them!
        1. Babur_Imperat
          Babur_Imperat 12 October 2019 19: 43
          -12
          Yes, it is precisely today that it is impossible to break through even the simultaneous launch of all missiles, one system takes over 100 targets, and each missile to capture a free missile that is not captured by other missiles, so the whole system is integrated into a single system that distributes targets between missiles, and they are in an automated mode At the factory can produce thousands of such systems and missiles, they are already completely under the umbrella pro.
        2. dirk182
          dirk182 14 October 2019 15: 14
          0
          is that you asking me a question or baburu?
      2. Babur_Imperat
        Babur_Imperat 12 October 2019 19: 28
        -11
        There is no way around or passing, their agents are aware of the current situation, no, they are against their tools today, integrated circuits have helped them a lot and they have become leaders in communication technologies, information transfer, in communications, in software, in the field of they introduced artificial intelligence with a pro system that makes a decision and destroys a target in a very short time, it deprives other states of using a rocket against them, it nullifies the capabilities of a rocket, this is Mega dangerous.
        1. T.Henks
          T.Henks 12 October 2019 22: 37
          0
          Dear, are you playing tanks?
      3. kuz363
        kuz363 14 October 2019 15: 06
        +1
        The people won the war only with Stalin, the party and communism! Because there was an idea. And now what idea will they fight (if they do)? For the children and grandchildren of oligarchs, deputies, the son of Medvedev or the daughter of Peskov, who live in the west?
    2. kit88
      kit88 12 October 2019 19: 27
      -3
      Come on.
      The Russians, they say, also conducted tests of their own.
      The moment of opening the mine with ICBMs was detected by a reconnaissance satellite. And after 5 seconds. an interceptor rocket flew into an open mine, so ICBMs were destroyed right at the launching site.
      belay
    3. garri-lin
      garri-lin 12 October 2019 20: 25
      +1
      One feels western orientation. Once all thoughts, aspirations and desires are directed to the side of the setting sun. Like I want to go where the sun is shining now !!! About missile defense from Europe to America, it's pretty cool. Only the earth is round. Wherever you turn, America will be everywhere. Fly PDA Hosh.
      1. Essex62
        Essex62 13 October 2019 00: 31
        +2
        I’ll go to clean. No chance whatsoever, not even an answer. Probably Masonic vigorous gifts are already flying ...
        And why should they be afraid, they are not vulnerable, ahead of the rest and the masters of the World in general.
    4. Grits
      Grits 13 October 2019 02: 21
      +1
      Quote: Babur_Imperat
      This is already useless at the level of technology that the United States possesses today, their systems detect any missiles from the Russian Federation

      You will be surprised, but the "old" technologies possessed by the Russian Federation have long been able to detect any missiles from the United States.
  19. dirk182
    dirk182 12 October 2019 18: 59
    -1
    The idea of ​​the BZHRK was good .. the question is whether the problems associated with this complex have been resolved. The problem of topography, the problem of the destruction of the railway track of the BZHRK, the creation of the necessary infrastructure from scratch. Again, you need to train specialists for this complex. And all these if .. It's easier to upgrade what we have. And then again we start playing "star wars"
    1. _Sergei_
      _Sergei_ 12 October 2019 19: 25
      0
      And where does the destruction of the canvas. BZHRK one-time product, it was shot and all.
      1. dirk182
        dirk182 12 October 2019 20: 13
        0
        If he will stand in one place, and not ply the territory of the country, then what is its value?
  20. akarfoxhound
    akarfoxhound 12 October 2019 19: 02
    +3
    And why it was reduced, this did not work out the resource Well done / Scalpel, I would very much like to know from the guarantor belay
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 12 October 2019 20: 26
      +1
      A resource-not-missile complex with a resource-missile.
      1. akarfoxhound
        akarfoxhound 13 October 2019 06: 52
        +3
        I am not a "rocketman", but something brings to me analogies with my native military aircraft, when the single-engine scheme was recognized by the government as outdated and under this theme, to the delight of the "partners", in 1998 the entire IBA was destroyed (MiG-27, Su- 17M4), which has not worked out and half its resource. As a result, during the second Chechen war, when it became necessary to work on the Czechs more efficiently, not only in the PMU (simple weather conditions), where the Su-25 is not an assistant, they began to look for pilots and the subsequent de-mothballing of aircraft remains. And they are not. Neither the first nor the second. It was here that the introduction of the Su-34, the shock functions of the Su-27SM and other plots "suddenly" accelerated.
        Like everything in our native Russia - until the fried rooster pecks ...
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 13 October 2019 08: 39
          0
          The missiles were produced only in Ukraine. Resource 15 years. Overloading of rolling stock. There are many cons. There are many expenses. And at the same time, the other strategic nuclear forces are in order and the defense capability does not suffer. Can you imagine how much money you would have to invest in the development of your missile or "friendship" with Ukraine?
          1. Fan-fan
            Fan-fan 13 October 2019 16: 32
            0
            Why then were the Americans so afraid of the BZHRK? Why did they first impose on us a restriction on the radius of patrols of the BZHRK, and then generally demand to destroy this complex?
            1. garri-lin
              garri-lin 13 October 2019 17: 50
              +1
              Ask the Americans. What and why were they afraid. Well done had many advantages, but he did not give a decisive advantage. Just an element of a multifaceted system.
      2. KERMET
        KERMET 13 October 2019 08: 17
        +1
        In your opinion, is the Scalpel rocket resource 11 years old?
    2. Tersky
      Tersky 12 October 2019 23: 12
      +3
      Quote: akarfoxhound
      did not work out the resource Well done / Scalpel, I would very much like to know from the guarantor

      You ask Borka for a bruise. Well, if you don’t know the address, I’ll tell you, Yekaterinburg, "Yeltsin Center". You will find it quickly, I guarantee, by the smell of shit and ink stains. yes
      1. Observer2014
        Observer2014 13 October 2019 00: 57
        0
        Why don't you respect Vovka so much? Or "YeltsinTsentr" aliens built? Where is the logic or just a trend? wink laughing"Not bad" you are a watered commentator bully
      2. KERMET
        KERMET 13 October 2019 08: 19
        0
        Send to the wrong address, Borka did not dispose of any complex - send to the current guarantor
        1. Tersky
          Tersky 13 October 2019 13: 45
          +1
          Quote: KERMET
          Borka did not dispose of any complex - send to the current guarantor

          And what is Putin doing? On the contrary, he announced the possible withdrawal of Russia from the INF Treaty in 2000. in response to a US announcement of withdrawal from the ABM Treaty.
          1. KERMET
            KERMET 13 October 2019 14: 42
            +2
            With the cases that the utilization of all BZHRK occurred under Putin - there are questions to him, Borka, despite all the booze, is not here
            1. Fan-fan
              Fan-fan 13 October 2019 16: 41
              0
              Here is what is on the network:
              "Since 1991, after a meeting between the leaders of the USSR (Gorbachev) and Great Britain (Thatcher), restrictions were imposed on the patrol routes of the BZHRK, they were on alert at the point of permanent deployment, without leaving the country's railway network.
              According to the START-2 Treaty (1993), Russia was to remove from service all RT-23UTTKh missiles by 2003. At the time of decommissioning, Russia had three railways (Kostroma, Perm and Krasnoyarsk), a total of 12 trains with 36 launchers. Despite Russia's withdrawal from START II in 2, all trains and launchers were dismantled (destroyed) during 2002-2003. "

              Well, who ruled Russia in 2003-2007? Is Yeltsin? The guarantor sawed these trains.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 13 October 2019 21: 17
                0
                BZHRK Russia will no longer be engaged - since it will have to create a new missile, the complex itself has limited mobility in view of the link to the railway tracks, as well as the significant cost of its creation. All that is now in service with the Strategic Missile Forces and new types of missiles that have recently been demonstrated are more than enough for the long term.
      3. kuz363
        kuz363 14 October 2019 15: 08
        0
        In fact, they cut the BCW already under Vova.
  21. Old26
    Old26 12 October 2019 19: 03
    +5
    It will be the biggest mistake to recreate the BZHRK. In the USSR there were three divisions. And they planned 7. But either there was not enough money, or the management realized that the project was too costly. Even the infrastructure of the Krasnoyarsk division was not completed to the end, and according to those who served on them rolling stock for the regulations were forced to overtake in Perm
    "Barguzin" planned to deploy in the amount of ONE division with 5 trains (regiments) of 6 missiles each. Each composition (regiment) will have to create its own PPD. And this is by no means a dozen light structures of the "Krona" type. In fact, each regiment has its own railway station with railway routes and structures of the type shown in the photo




    Photos are only a part of the regiment's structures. Now imagine that there should be such "stations" FIVE
    In addition, you will need both "civilian infrastructure" - housing, schools, kindergartens, hospitals and military - barracks and infrastructure of the regiment. It will take either 5 small or one large military town. And this is oh what a lot of money.
    It’s easier, as Korotchenko says, to create a new PGRK ... Or to deploy an additional regiment in existing divisions ...
    1. prapor55
      prapor55 13 October 2019 06: 06
      +1
      Yes, you are right. All PPDs are already destroyed. And in 36 rd, in the summer we carried out even without freon. There was hell on the commander, I was more comfortable in the locomotive.
    2. Archivist Vasya
      Archivist Vasya 14 October 2019 15: 04
      0
      To rebuild the station, structures and access roads is not such a waste when compared with how stupidly we use funds for some projects (I mean in general, and not just in the army) ... And then 7 divisions are really too much, 2- 3 in general, that’s enough, and you can build next to the already formed high-frequency ones, to equip the current with a piece of iron.
  22. Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 12 October 2019 19: 17
    +5
    Quote: Old26
    It will be the biggest mistake to recreate the BZHRK. In the USSR there were three divisions. And they planned 7. But either there was not enough money, or the management realized that the project was too costly. Even the infrastructure of the Krasnoyarsk division was not completed to the end, and according to those who served on them rolling stock for the regulations were forced to overtake in Perm
    "Barguzin" planned to deploy in the amount of ONE division with 5 trains (regiments) of 6 missiles each. Each composition (regiment) will have to create its own PPD. And this is by no means a dozen light structures of the "Krona" type. In fact, each regiment has its own railway station with railway routes and structures of the type shown in the photo




    Photos are only a part of the regiment's structures. Now imagine that there should be such "stations" FIVE
    In addition, you will need both "civilian infrastructure" - housing, schools, kindergartens, hospitals and military - barracks and infrastructure of the regiment. It will take either 5 small or one large military town. And this is oh what a lot of money.
    It’s easier, as Korotchenko says, to create a new PGRK ... Or to deploy an additional regiment in existing divisions ...

    And let me tell you what a mistake we had in our search for mineral deposits. This money is roughly comparable with divisions, if not more, but what's there ... more. Democrats came (I politely - I do not call them crap ...) And they closed it all. It is very expensive, believe me - from scratch to create infrastructure. So the extraction of oil and gold, as well as rare earths, was a mistake in the USSR? I’ll even add you there ... but why do I need it.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 12 October 2019 21: 14
      -1
      Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
      So the extraction of oil and gold, as well as rare earths, was a mistake in the USSR? I’ll even add you there ... but why do I need it.

      You do not take into account one thing - the search for oil and gold subsequently made it possible to profit from the exploitation of the field and thereby all this went to the good of the country. The BZHRK did not give any profit, their maintenance was very costly, and these complexes did not radically change the overall combat power of the country. So it’s not worth it now to return to their creation, when it’s already obvious that for less money we can now create no less effective attack systems.
      1. Sergey Averchenkov
        Sergey Averchenkov 12 October 2019 23: 22
        +2
        You tell it to the Democrats - destroyed the expedition. Exactly where my parents worked, my brother and I - it's expensive to keep it ... feel the analogy? And yet, the search for deposits was not when there was no guaranteed profit - maybe you will find ... or maybe not ... but where without it? This is not a geologist with a hammer, this is a full-fledged exploration with drilling and penetration. This is probably my personal insult, but ... because without this, nowhere. If you want to have gold (I worked on gold) - invest money with an incomprehensible result.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 13 October 2019 09: 36
          -1
          Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
          And yet, the search for deposits was not when there was no guaranteed profit - maybe you will find ... or maybe not ... but where without it?

          Of course not. But we must not forget that smart people built socialism and they knew the scientifically based norms for the distribution of surplus product, where they determined how much money should be directed to development, how much to consumption and how much to the accumulation fund. That is why not all funds were spent on the search for deposits, and resources were laid for failure. So the Soviet model was well thought out and balanced, until various illiterate secretaries of the Central Committee, like Gorbachev and Yakovlev, got to it, but the consequences are known.
          1. Sergey Averchenkov
            Sergey Averchenkov 13 October 2019 10: 41
            0
            Totally agree with you.
    2. AKS-U
      AKS-U 12 October 2019 22: 30
      0
      Nah ... Mother Russia will not pull. There isn’t enough money; they have long been taken abroad. And with this money, weapons are riveted against us.
  23. Aliken
    Aliken 12 October 2019 19: 18
    +4
    And who was responsible for this disposal?
    1. hydrox
      hydrox 12 October 2019 20: 22
      +3
      So they still lead the country ...
  24. Vadim T.
    Vadim T. 12 October 2019 19: 19
    +2
    Rebuilding is always much harder than keeping what is. The Tu-160 was cut into scrap metal - and now what? Those that are in the ranks will have to be written off sooner or later. And there is still no replacement for them. Kazan plant is just beginning to prepare for the resumption of serial production. And how long it will take, only God knows. And if they kept at least half of the destroyed strategists - how much more powerful the VKS would be now. So it happened with the "Barguzins", and with aircraft carriers. And now you have to start all over again from scratch, with much less opportunities than at one time in the USSR. It's a shame that so many valuable resources and technologies were lost in vain.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 12 October 2019 21: 58
      -3
      Already in all production goes in 2022 they promise to lift the first 160M2 into the air, and while they finish two unfinished buildings.
  25. EDWARD
    EDWARD 12 October 2019 19: 21
    +8
    from the series .. our song is good, start over.
  26. Old26
    Old26 12 October 2019 19: 21
    +3
    Quote: rocket757
    The territory is large, it’s a plus ..... but it’s very useful to have rockets close, close to the potential enemy.
    The Club project is much more preferable in this respect.

    Subsonic? With a speed of 0,8M? Of course, more preferable than a rocket with a speed of 23-25M laughing

    Quote: AAK
    the price of one ICBM at the BZHRK is much cheaper than the PGRK

    Why would it be, if there and there will be the same "Yars" ??
  27. Old26
    Old26 12 October 2019 19: 30
    +2
    Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
    So the extraction of oil and gold, as well as rare earths, was a mistake in the USSR? I’ll even add you there ... but why do I need it.

    And where does it? We are talking about the profitability of creating BZHRK. Compared to deploying additional regiments in existing divisions, this is a huge amount of money. Moreover, having deployed 4 regiments of the PGRK, we will get more missiles and warheads than in five BZHRK trains. And there are no such enormous expenses for creating from the ground up the RPM of the division’s parts.

    Quote: akarfoxhound
    And why it was reduced, this did not work out the resource Well done / Scalpel, I would very much like to know from the guarantor belay

    The missile was created in Ukraine and EMNIP warranty period of operation it was assigned about 15 years. So the deadline is almost over. And the warranty service for these missiles would have to be done in Ukraine ...
  28. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 12 October 2019 19: 50
    +1
    Quote: Victor_B
    As part of the WWS, the number of other carriers would have to be reduced, because the amount should be constant.
    The Americans are clearly preparing a withdrawal from the treaty, which is why ours are "hinting".
    You can also make such trains for medium-range missiles.
    Then they will not fall under the restrictions.

    Not certainly in that way. Not the total quantity should be constant, but the total quantity should not exceed the agreed amount in the contract. As you know, we can, within the framework of the agreement, increase the number by several tens.
  29. Lapunevsky
    Lapunevsky 12 October 2019 19: 53
    -1
    Again, only desire and wishlist through "can" ... Russia can do a lot. But a solution is needed.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 12 October 2019 22: 05
      -1
      Russia will not do BZHRK - the MO has enough other expenses for the Strategic Missile Forces; they need to be re-equipped for YRS M, Sarmat, UR 100 - Vanguard, R 39 Liner, Bulava 40 and cruise missiles X 102 and X 50, and soon to create a new infantry rocket . Instead of BZHRK now Poseidon and Petrel are a prospect.
  30. ushakorv
    ushakorv 12 October 2019 20: 18
    -1
    Well, on the one hand. An interesting idea with modern means of delivery, which is much easier and less (special carts, frames and driveways are not needed) on the other hand, but how to really hide it. Indeed, now Any despatcher knows where what, where the train. If it’s supposed to be hidden under a normal load. Then the question is, who will lead him? Etc. a bunch of questions. And the answers can only be yes if only.
  31. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 12 October 2019 20: 23
    +1
    Since we are threatened by an attack from a distance in the middle range, then the Barguzins need to be made at the same distance, which will allow the train to be stuffed with a dozen mallet, and the cargo in the car will not go beyond w. q requirements, which is more than wonderful to mask such crafts.
  32. Tank jacket
    Tank jacket 12 October 2019 20: 25
    +3
    Barguzin is such a furry animal ... Everyone will like it, as indeed a polar fox ...
  33. kunstkammer
    kunstkammer 12 October 2019 20: 33
    +1
    Quote: venik
    Would there be money .....

    Well, immediately hit the sore spot! Or maybe: herself ... herself? This is more familiar to us.
  34. garri-lin
    garri-lin 12 October 2019 20: 34
    0
    For strategists, the railway platform is unnecessary. But you can try to revive the Pioneer analogue in the form factor of an ordinary container. Scare the Europeans. And let them ply on highways. From the railway to the barge, from there to the caravan, he spent a week in the jar and again on the road.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 13 October 2019 16: 49
      0
      We have the main enemy of the United States, and the Pioneers will not reach the United States. Barguzin would get it.
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 13 October 2019 17: 52
        +1
        But the Pioneers will multiply by zero the entire American infrastructure in Europe. Which is much more dangerous than middle class niggas escaping from the ghetto.
  35. Alien From
    Alien From 12 October 2019 20: 45
    0
    BZHRK great power! No wonder the mattresses were so happy for their cut .....!
  36. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 12 October 2019 20: 52
    -2
    Something seems to me, these complexes have long been there, far from paper.
  37. Old26
    Old26 12 October 2019 20: 54
    +1
    Quote: venik
    that he "spit" along the track at a speed of 80-100 km / h, and his route is not predictable - he can turn at any railway junction !!

    About "spar". He walked along the Transib at a speed of about 40 km / h and slowed down all movement. This was a headache for dispatchers. Only when I turned to the "ring", then at least on the track people calmed down.
    The route was predictable because navigation aids were hung on poles along the route. I don't remember the name exactly, but something like PDR-600. He could not move anywhere, because the halts where the train could be "uncoupled" into three launch modules were located in certain places. And these places had to have exact coordinates known to the launch crew

    Quote: Naive
    And you try to move the wheeled chassis with a rocket relatively secretively for 500 km.

    Have you decided to justify your nickname? Have you heard anything about the windows in the passage of satellites, as well as that the car chassis can be masked on the track? It (car chassis) is not tied to a piece of iron

    Quote: garri-lin
    For strategists, the railway platform is unnecessary. But you can try to revive the Pioneer analogue in the form factor of an ordinary container. Scare the Europeans. And let them ply on highways. From the railway to the barge, from there to the caravan, he spent a week in the jar and again on the road.

    And you will be able to shove the "Pioneer" into this "form factor"?
    1. prapor55
      prapor55 13 October 2019 18: 02
      0
      The speed of 40 was only in small areas along the main course, we confidently walked 80, if you are about the winter of 1996 in western Siberia. it was a chipboard error that gave me the wrong warning. The dispatcher canceled after the tail for the whole section gathered behind me. soldier
  38. rus-5819
    rus-5819 12 October 2019 21: 12
    +1
    According to Korotchenko, Russia may consider the revival of the military railway missile project as a response to the possible deployment of medium- and shorter-range missiles by the United States in Asia and Europe

    Ensign Ivanov, having sipped from the shell of "Hyacinth", looked sadly at the unaccounted for sealed warehouse: - "Yes Masha, we are parting with you, ... and you will go to Mother Russia, somewhere you will find shelter ... maybe even in You wave America "....
  39. Observer2014
    Observer2014 12 October 2019 21: 19
    +1
    The article is about nothing. Foolishness and slag. Three years ago the topic was closed. And all the attempts on this issue are PR or just getting the author’s money for the article.
  40. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 12 October 2019 21: 26
    +5
    Quote: Nycomed
    Yes, everything will be tracked and recognized, so why not spend a lot of money on the revival of this project. What was relevant in the 80s is now "past the box office". They'll stick some kind of microchip to it, the size of a pinhead, and that's it.

    Firstly, you need to know APPROXIMATELY where this steam locomotive stands in order to approach and attach.
    Second, the radius of your pin will be measured in meters. Third, after a week of functioning, the pin needs to change nutrition. Or change the pin itself. Fourth, if you think that a satellite can track nanowatts of a signal at a distance of five hundred kilometers, wouldn’t the security personnel with detectors guarding the engine locate a pin from a distance of several meters? How is it with your school education? Signal strength. as well as illumination (one physics of processes) falls inversely with the square of the distance.

    Do not watch stupid detective films. They are designed for and d and about t about in.
    1. kuz363
      kuz363 14 October 2019 15: 27
      0
      Through the chip, you can send signals to the satellite, no meters of action. There are things like batteries, batteries for recharging. How long does the battery work in a computer? In my laptop since 2007, I have never changed. And the CHIP signals can be sent only periodically, and upward.
  41. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 12 October 2019 21: 37
    0
    There was an article here that it is possible to disguise a caliber of the Caliber type as a container train ... in one wagon 4 pcs. With the right range.
  42. DPN
    DPN 12 October 2019 22: 03
    -4
    Maybe of course they’ll just add VAT on the products and all that, maybe it’s easier for the KUBU to ask for Russia to be included, sugar, bananas and other citrus fruits will be their own military base in comfortable conditions, not to mention the beaches for cold Russia. Barguzins are already the last century, as one said to Paradise others in HELL, there were enough nuclear stocks back in Soviet times.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 13 October 2019 12: 07
      -3
      You will feed Cuba at your own expense.
      1. DPN
        DPN 13 October 2019 21: 05
        -2
        It looks like YOU have fed all 14 republics, so the USSR didn’t overfeed, probably?
        Everyone feeds himself, but about fairy tales that someone feeds a lot of people.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 13 October 2019 21: 22
          0
          No, the USSR fed half of the world for decades - for loyalty and "coconuts" it finished it off in the 80s, and broke its "neck".
          1. DPN
            DPN 13 October 2019 22: 27
            -1
            The USSR fed half the world.
            And today, whom is Russia feeding? The natural resources remained the same, but the free ones evaporated: housing, education, medicine — on each channel, requests for help.
    2. kuz363
      kuz363 14 October 2019 15: 28
      0
      Once fed Cuba, writing off 30 mln. dollars. Is it too expensive a treat?
      1. DPN
        DPN 14 October 2019 19: 43
        0
        That's why they lived in the WORLD without war with the United States, until the 90s.
  43. AKS-U
    AKS-U 12 October 2019 22: 19
    +3
    A strange game. We deployed 3 divisions, reduced them. We carried out work on the Barguzin and closed it down. It was not easier to preserve it. Conserve the Scalpels. And to modernize them, according to "changes in the military-political situation."
  44. Old26
    Old26 12 October 2019 22: 31
    +3
    Quote: AKS-U
    A strange game. We deployed 3 divisions, reduced them. We carried out work on the Barguzin and closed it down. It was not easier to preserve it. Conserve the Scalpels. And to modernize them, according to "changes in the military-political situation."

    Preserve missiles that are about to end their useful life? For what? A solid rocket was made in Ukraine. In addition, by the time the complexes were decommissioned, it is not known what condition the Pavlograd plant was in. Could he do anything at all ...
    1. KERMET
      KERMET 13 October 2019 08: 27
      0
      Where did you get information about the life of Scalpel missiles? Have you heard anything about extending the life of strategic missiles?
      1. sabotage
        sabotage 13 October 2019 09: 13
        0
        Quote: KERMET
        Where did you get information about the life of Scalpel missiles? Have you heard anything about extending the life of strategic missiles?

        The main way to extend the service life is to control the firing of missiles. Nothing else to test a rocket in the TPK. New missiles nowhere to take. Therefore, shooting ammunition we get a reduction in the shock potential of the regiments.

        The story is the same as with the R-39 and 941 project.
    2. dirk182
      dirk182 13 October 2019 17: 45
      0
      Official reason, according to which the "Scalpels" are removed from service, is called the expiration of the service life, although if we take into account that they were taken into service in the years 91-94, this the term should expire only by 2018 provided that regular maintenance is carried out by the manufacturer. But the factory in Pavlovgrad (Ukraine) now makes trolleybuses instead of missiles. And Ukraine, having become a non-nuclear power, under the terms of the agreement can neither have, nor produce or service nuclear weapons, especially now that the new Ukrainian authorities have headed west. And the equipment for the production of rockets that are in service with Russia is launched for remelting.
  45. Nikolai
    Nikolai 12 October 2019 23: 04
    0
    In Europe and Asia, the United States will not be able to accommodate the INF. Time is not right. None of the European and Asian leaders will do this. Trump does not scare the rattle with Russia, but with China and S. Korea, while realizing that China, S. Korea and Russia will instantly increase the response potential of the INF Treaty by several times the potential American. And they will be forced to create a defense alliance in response to the American threat, and this is the last thing that NATO lacked.
    1. Sapsan136
      Sapsan136 12 October 2019 23: 15
      +3
      You are mistaken ... Romania and Bulgaria have already deployed a US missile defense system, and Tomahawk cruise missiles can be launched from these installations, including with a nuclear warhead ... Such installations may appear in Poland in the near future ... and patients with Russophobia republics of the former USSR can meet the United States to do their favorite thing - to spoil the Russian Federation ...
      1. Pavel57
        Pavel57 12 October 2019 23: 19
        +1
        Only Romania, without Bulgaria.
      2. Nikolai
        Nikolai 13 October 2019 17: 25
        0
        I did not mean the fact of the deployment of launchers in Romania and the planned deployment of launchers in Poland. I'm about the new ballistic RSD USA. I do not think that the United States will be able to deploy RSD anywhere else.
        1. Sapsan136
          Sapsan136 14 October 2019 07: 32
          0
          But Tomahawk cruise missiles have a range of up to 2500 km, are capable of carrying a nuclear charge and are quite suitable for medium-range missile standards, because the INF Treaty was buried by the United States and prohibited its deployment on land ... allowing them to be installed only on the fleet and aircraft
          1. Nikolai
            Nikolai 14 October 2019 16: 05
            0
            I'm talking about ballistic missiles with a short flying time.
            And this good (Tomahawk) they have enough in the Navy.
    2. dirk182
      dirk182 14 October 2019 15: 17
      0
      The GDP said that it would be unambiguously placed, therefore, it gave the go-ahead for the creation of a missile system that would break any missile defense
  46. Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 12 October 2019 23: 12
    +4
    It’s time to revive the BZHRK, this is a matter of national security. Their construction is cheaper than the construction of nuclear submarines, their service is safer, and the effect is almost the same as that of nuclear submarines ... It’s hard to find them, so they will be a great addition to nuclear submarines ... Weapons can vary, from YRSs, to Caliber and X- 101, which they have long wanted to adapt to launch with nuclear submarines, making it universal.
  47. Pavel57
    Pavel57 12 October 2019 23: 18
    +1
    The stability of the BRBD is higher than the SLBM, and it is cheaper in terms of total costs.
    1. Sapsan136
      Sapsan136 12 October 2019 23: 25
      +3
      This is how to say ... BZHRK can still fall even under the occasional strike of missiles, or enemy aircraft, for example, in a city that it will pass by ... With a nuclear submarine, this is not realistic ... But, as for me, the BZHRK is much more stable wheeled units of the same YaRS, and it can and should perfectly complement the submarines ...
      1. Pavel57
        Pavel57 12 October 2019 23: 28
        +1
        SLBM carriers are under the gun of enemy submarines and submarine forces. It’s purely my assessment that the probability of a successful combat mission is not high.
        1. Sapsan136
          Sapsan136 12 October 2019 23: 32
          +1
          Well this is not entirely true. Firstly, they can shoot today directly from the pier without even going out to sea, and secondly, the stability of different types of nuclear submarines is different in the sea. Old submarines, as a rule, are noisier, but there are exceptions ... For example, in the US Navy, the most dangerous opponents for our fleet are relatively old submarines such as the Sea Wolf, and not the new Virginia, which make more noise, because of cheaper and less high-quality housing cover.
          1. Pavel57
            Pavel57 12 October 2019 23: 35
            +3
            If you shoot from the pier, then why bother with a garden at all.
            1. Sapsan136
              Sapsan136 12 October 2019 23: 36
              +3
              Here I agree with you, but this is an extreme case when a launch order was received while parking at the port
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 13 October 2019 09: 52
      -1
      Quote: Pavel57
      The stability of the BRBD is higher than the SLBM, and it is cheaper in terms of total costs.

      But in any case, these complexes are inferior in cost to kilotons to conventional stationary mine launchers, and this fact has long been known to military specialists. So we must return to the old, old-fashioned ways of placing them in Western and Central Siberia, and not bother with new-fangled theories. The only thing required is to simplify the mines themselves, because it is unlikely that with a timely decision on a preemptive strike, something will remain in them for defeat, except for the duty shift.
      1. Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 14 October 2019 07: 35
        0
        Stationary mines are too vulnerable, since their coordinates are known to the enemy ... The whole point is to make it difficult for the enemy to establish the position of the launchers. For this, they are building nuclear submarines and building the BZHRK
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 14 October 2019 11: 29
          -1
          Quote: Sapsan136
          Stationary mines are too vulnerable, as their coordinates are known to the enemy ...

          The coordinates of all military units are known to the enemy - and now what?
          Quote: Sapsan136
          Here all the salt is to make it difficult for the enemy to establish the position of the launchers.

          The salt is not just this, but to open up the enemy’s preparation for a nuclear strike in advance and to release the entire ammunition on duty of the strategic nuclear forces on them until they are hit by the enemy. Even if the intelligence spoils everything, then anyway, from the moment the enemy detects the launch of their missiles, we have minutes to give the command back. So the whole problem lies in the quickest decision-making and the immediate issuance of a command to launch to the strategic nuclear forces on duty so that it is used 100% - then we will not need a missile defense system for silos.
          Quote: Sapsan136
          For this, they are building nuclear submarines and building the BZHRK

          Nuclear submarines are now being built, and first of all, so that part of our nuclear potential is located off the coast of America in order to reduce the flight time. Against China, we do not need nuclear submarines - this is obvious. But the BZHRK at a certain stage played a role in the nuclear confrontation, but now they are not needed for two reasons - firstly, there are mobile wheeled complexes, and secondly, hypersonic weapons are being developed, and it’s more expensive to transport them around the country, taking into account the fact that warheads will maneuver by themselves, which means that it will be difficult for the enemy’s missile defense systems to determine their trajectory, regardless of where they will be released.
          1. Sapsan136
            Sapsan136 15 October 2019 11: 38
            0
            Whether the submarine is at sea is not known to the enemy, it and the submarine ... And they built the BZHRK so that the launchers were lost in the vast expanses of the country from enemy satellites ... Wheel complexes are not the BZHRK, for them a march of 100 km is already a feat ...
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 15 October 2019 11: 55
              0
              Quote: Sapsan136
              The enemy does not know whether the submarine is at sea, for that it and the submarine ...

              This is the main advantage because of which we maintain and develop this nuclear component so far and reduce the large surface fleet.
              Quote: Sapsan136
              And the BZHRK was built so that the launchers were lost in the vast expanses of the country from the satellites of the enemy ...

              The American has an orbital grouping of 400 satellites and at least half of them are military, or at worst dual-use. So, even negotiations between road linemakers or workers providing maneuvering, they can classify if they use VHF radio stations during the passage of the BRC. From here and draw a conclusion about their capabilities.
              Quote: Sapsan136
              Wheel complexes are not BZHRK, for them a march of 100 km is already a feat ...

              I think that the main feat will be if they start right from the storage site a few minutes after receiving the command - I hope this requirement still remains valid.
  48. andelc
    andelc 13 October 2019 00: 17
    0
    Isn’t it easier to place containers with calibers on bulk carriers in all ports of adversaries?
    1. Sapsan136
      Sapsan136 13 October 2019 00: 43
      +1
      Not easier ... They have intelligence, and at the helm in Russia is full of people like Boriski Yeltsin’s son-in-law, whose wives and children are citizens of Austria and the USA ... Putin is in no hurry, alas, to get rid of Yeltsin’s rotten legacy ... and this a huge problem, including national security
      1. Pavel57
        Pavel57 13 October 2019 01: 10
        0
        Returning to the topic of the article, all costs of the options should be considered taking into account how the cost of building the platform, infrastructure, the availability of personnel, the lobby inside the MO, the fifth and sixth columns, possible answers of the enemy (opponents). Given the developed railway networks, BRDZ look very promising.

        The main question is when to have a deployed system.
        1. Sapsan136
          Sapsan136 13 October 2019 04: 23
          0
          You and I have no doubt about the need for the BZHRK for Russia, and this is the main thing. I hope the Ministry of Defense and the Government of the Russian Federation agree with us and Russia receives the necessary BZHRK ...
      2. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 13 October 2019 09: 23
        +1
        Not the rotten heritage of Yeltsin, but the rotten heritage of the CPSU. All these figures, at one time, carried a party card in their pockets.
        1. Sapsan136
          Sapsan136 13 October 2019 11: 08
          -1
          The CPSU is a separate issue, but specific individuals have spoiled it and this is Yeltsin, Gorbachev and Shevardnadze ... Kravchuk and Kuchmami also could not do it ... The tsars wanted to sit down and get 30 pieces of silver from the USA ... And Medvedev puts monuments to Yeltsin ... Putin in Moscow, Gorbachev is greeted as an honored guest ... speak of the CPSU ?! Is EP better ?! Or running to the US Embassy Noval to your liking ?!
          1. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 13 October 2019 11: 16
            +2
            And EP and consists mainly of former members of the CPSU. So to say heirs and successors. And their respective mentality is soviet. Navalny is also not much different from the current ones, and in addition he receives grants from overseas ones. Here is the reason for our troubles.
            1. Sapsan136
              Sapsan136 13 October 2019 11: 24
              +1
              So who is the president? Ivanova? Do you have your own party?
              1. AU Ivanov.
                AU Ivanov. 13 October 2019 13: 00
                0
                And there are no suitable candidates. Zugzwang, in the language of chess. They will not be until we learn how to organize ourselves. And the question is: is it impossible to live without leaders? We are not a mumbo-jumbo tribe.
                1. Sapsan136
                  Sapsan136 13 October 2019 14: 07
                  +1
                  Do you offer anarchy? So we will slide to feudalism ... And so we have almost slipped (in every region, such as Lithuania, the president sits, and even the former Soviet currency prostitute)
                  1. AU Ivanov.
                    AU Ivanov. 13 October 2019 14: 10
                    0
                    Not anarchy, but democracy. For example, the power of the Soviets, which was not in the USSR. (The Communists ruled everything and everything, and the Soviets were for decoration)
                    1. Sapsan136
                      Sapsan136 13 October 2019 14: 57
                      +1
                      Makhno offered the same thing ... It turned out chaos and banditry
                      1. AU Ivanov.
                        AU Ivanov. 13 October 2019 15: 09
                        0
                        Makhnov's chaos was no more than the then Bolshevik or White Guard. "Whites come - they rob, the red ones come - they also rob" The civil war itself is chaos. A shameful page in the history of our country.
                      2. Sapsan136
                        Sapsan136 14 October 2019 07: 37
                        0
                        Small-town gangs, such as Makhnovskaya, will bring any country to feudalism and the war of city-states against each other ... This is a utopia
                2. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 13 October 2019 21: 23
                  -1
                  Try searching in the Leaders of Russia contest.
  49. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 13 October 2019 02: 06
    +1
    As for the BZHRK ... I don't know, I don't know ....! Once I read an article "dedicated" to methods for detecting BZHRK and tracking them .... There were many methods. The author of his article tried to explain why Russia decided not to "revive" the BZHRK ... Now, one can recall the "mobile-ground" missile system developed shortly before the "death" of the USSR. They wanted to disguise him as a heavy truck ... ("truckers", sir!). What about 40-foot shipping containers? Ships, railroad trains, truck tractors, "air carriers", finally ... Modern results in the development of materials, rocket fuel, microminiaturization of electronics, guidance systems should help in the placement of long-range BR (CR) in 40-foot (or even in 20ft ...) containers!
    1. aszzz888
      aszzz888 13 October 2019 03: 05
      +1
      Nikolaevich I (Vladimir) Today, 02:06 .... And 40-foot sea containers? Ships, railroad trains, truck tractors, "air transport", finally ... Modern results in the development of materials, propellant, microminiaturization of electronics, guidance systems should help in the deployment of long-range BR (KR) in 40-foot (or even in 20ft ...) containers!

      I believe our developers have taken into account such options that can fully justify their mission.
  50. Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 13 October 2019 02: 23
    0
    To transfer such secretly to the same Maduro, the pi.sy decide to attack Venezuela and the unexpected will fly to them in Fashington laughing