Rampant liberalism? Why the empire fell apart

194
“The tragic ring of the Russian is turning stories. We are witnessing the eternal Russian drama of the destruction of centralism, which holds giant spaces together, many peoples, languages, cultures, ensures the existence of Russia as a whole. The liberalism of Yeltsin, who divided the Soviet Union, after the 1991 year ... "
A. Prokhanov






Sad history lessons


Of course, quite often history is a policy that has been overturned into the past. Of course, some historians like to study history the way they like, and to learn exactly the lessons that need to be learned based on the current political agenda. Of course, history can be interpreted very, very differently, including in the way that certain political forces like it.

However, the desire to portray the collapse of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union precisely as a consequence of the "rampant liberalism" seems strange enough for anyone who is even a little familiar with Russian history. Everything was a little wrong there.

Neither Nicholas II nor Gorbachev were democrats, no matter what anyone said. And that would be half the trouble. True, the womb is that they were not strong (or at least not bad) rulers either. If someone does not remember, then Nikolai literally forced abdicate, and during the rapid transformation of Russian society at the beginning of the 20 century and even during the war for no he did not want to go for real reforms. I didn’t want to. Even at gunpoint. And he was not going to share real power with any Duma.

Already at the end of the century of the 20, in the non-belligerent industrial superpower of the USSR, Mikhail Sergeyevich behaved completely similarly. He did not want any real democratization and any real political reforms. He was more engaged in PR. By PR of yourself, beloved. Why do you need some kind of “democracy” when you have such a good, beautiful (and talkative) Secretary General as the head of state? And even in December 91 (!) He categorically did not want to leave the government. When everything was already lost and the whole society was forgiving him. And there was no longer a country called the USSR.

Then Raisa Maksimovna “chatted” him. By the way, one cannot fail to draw another analogy between these "great politicians", namely, the female factor in discrediting them: the "German queen" - Raisa Maksimovna. Why is this so important? And this moment was noted by Kara-Murza Sr. What is most important in the Western political system - the standard of living. The system quite easily perceives the discredit of individual politicians and the entire system, but ... a drop in living standards leads to dramatic consequences.

In Russia, this is not so. By itself, the decline in living standards still does not lead to anything, but the “murdered prince” changes everything categorically and dramatically. “The Tsar ... is not real!” Therefore, oddly enough, in Russia, the moral and reputational aspect of maintaining power is dominant. You can lose all the money, you can lose the battle, but you can not lose the reputation. No way. That is why the “violent activity” of Alexandra Fedorovna and Raisa Maximovna had very serious consequences. Yes ... Caesar's wife should be beyond suspicion. There is no arguing.

But in general, both Nikolai and Mikhail did not show any “creeps” towards democracy. Both the one and the other wanted to rule alone ... but they could not. Just because of their personal qualities, they could not fully rule such a complex country as Russia. It did not work out for them. Jamb after jamb, failure after failure.

That is, as we all perfectly understand, a bad driver can break a car, not because this is his goal, but because this is the end result of his activity, aimed at something completely different. Both tsarist Russia under the leadership of Nikolai Alexandrovich and the proletarian USSR under the leadership of Mikhail Sergeyevich smoothly moved not towards democracy, but towards chaos. The system was rigid, the system was secret, the system was anti-democratic. But the "edit" did not work. Hungry, and therefore angry peasants, “aggressive” neighbors, “untimely” technical revolution ... Yes, a lot of things. And everything went awry, and everything was peddling.

What is the root cause of the collapse?


And this is characteristic: both the Soviet Union and tsarist Russia had a very solid base, a very healthy foundation, very serious achievements, very interesting prospects ... and then it all went down the drain. The problem, it seems now, was still not in the liberal liberals, but in the "control loop" itself.

Gorbachev everything happened much faster (the era of scientific and technological revolution after all!), But Nikolai had a good chance to think it over and weigh everything ... The war with Japan and the revolution of the 1905 year is a kind of very easy version of what happened later with Germany. A kind of "echo of the future." There Nikolai still rushed to battle cruisers to build samurai for revenge ... That was not what they had to do. Not at all.

War is a reassessment of values ​​and the balance of forces on the battlefield. One side demonstrates superiority over the other. With all the ensuing consequences. The problem of Nicholas II was precisely in the numerous failures in the military. Too many defeats. Too many “stocks” of management in general. And step by step, discontent and misunderstanding grew in the country.

And what happened in February of 17 is a kind of “accumulated amount”. The autocrat did not play any “democracy”. He could not manage the country.

With Mikhail Sergeyevich, everything happened much faster, although there was no big war and the people were by no means starving (at first). But the growing "shoals" in management. Over and over and over and over again ... But even in the hot summer of 91, Mikhail Sergeyevich categorically did not want to resign and did not see his mistakes fundamentally. And he was not going to change anything.

The “revolutionized” situation with both Gorbachev and the last Romanov looked something like this: they already "got" and "pissed off" all of Russia, but they themselves sincerely wondered: what’s wrong? The “bewildered” Nikolai was soon shot, and Gorbachev continued to sincerely be perplexed: what’s wrong? Even after the collapse of the USSR. Although, in principle, Nikolai also managed to observe the complete collapse of "his" empire.

That is, tough management in itself does not lead to victory and few people are interested in general. “Managed”, oddly enough, are primarily interested in the results of this “tough management”. Stalin did get to Berlin, although not on the first try. Lee Kuan Yu made the same pearl from Singapore, although it is not so simple with the causes and consequences.

Brezhnev was blamed not for lack of democracy, but primarily for stagnation. "Fell asleep on the road" our dear secretary general. Therefore, the opposition between “rotten liberalism” and “tough authoritarianism” looks somewhat far-fetched. Stalin was great not for his authoritarianism, but for his victories. "No matter what color the cat is, the main thing is that it catches mice." That's what the father of the Chinese economic miracle used to say.

By the way, why are there Japanese, Korean, German, Chinese, Singaporean economic miracles, and the combination of “Russian miracle” causes only irony? In the case of “rotten liberalism”, which destroyed both the Romanov empire and the “Politburo empire”, it seems to me that the cause is actively and purposefully confused with the investigation. That is, just the “rampant liberalism” in Russia is, as a rule, not the reason for the collapse, it is rather a consequence of the collapse of the rigid system.

But the slaughter phrase “But under Stalin there was order!” You must answer like this: “But under Stalin there were victories.” And not a dull sitting in a swamp, voiced by patriotic slogans. Remember that Jew in the Tretyakov Gallery who advised a fellow officer to imitate not his "accent", but already directly and directly to Count Suvorov-Rymniksky? The situation is somewhat similar.

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  1. +24
    11 October 2019 06: 03
    He was more engaged in PR. By PR of yourself, beloved. Why do you need some kind of “democracy” when you have such a good, beautiful (and talkative) Secretary General as the head of state?
    ... That's for sure ... But the PR continues, only in a slightly different form ...
    1. +12
      11 October 2019 06: 13
      Yes, Alex ... Something vaguely reminds me of ... The current situation ..
      1. +13
        11 October 2019 07: 45
        Quote: 210ox
        Yes, Alex ... Something vaguely reminds me of ... The current situation ..

        The current situation is really similar .. Tops can't, bottoms don't want .. Classic and same rake ..
        1. +5
          11 October 2019 09: 34
          Now the tops do not want, the lower classes do not want and cannot
          1. +4
            11 October 2019 18: 15
            What is the root cause of the collapse?
            And this is characteristic: both the Soviet Union and tsarist Russia had a very solid base, a very healthy foundation, very serious achievements, very interesting prospects ... and then it all went down the drain. The problem, it seems now, was still not in the liberal liberals, but in the "control loop" itself.

            The problem was still precisely in liberalism, i.e. in the bourgeois-pro-Western degeneration of the "top" of society.

            Under Nicholas II, it was the growing bourgeoisie who betrayed the Russian monarch, and mainly from the side foreign capitalist owner in RI. The February revolution in RI was precisely LIBERAL, i.e. bourgeois. Even the top of the Russian Orthodox Church betrayed the king and sang with the bourgeoisie.

            And in Soviet times, the collapse began with Khrushchev, who opposed the course of Stalin's personality and the construction of socialism in a single country. Those. with the departure of Khrushchev himself and the Central Committee of the CPSU from the communist ideology as such. That the class struggle in the USSR does not exist and its liberal consumer understanding of communism is only a desire for a purely increased consumerism in the country, as in the West. It was then that Khrushchev threw a cry to the USSR "Catch up and overtake America!" And this was nothing more than consumer-bourgeois LIBERALISM, which led to the further geopolitical disintegration of Russia as a result of a natural bourgeois coup in the country.

            Why did Russian boots lose to American boots? A. Fursov. Published: 11 Oct. 2016
            1. 0
              11 October 2019 20: 05
              Quote: Tatiana
              Under Nicholas II, it was the growing bourgeoisie who betrayed the Russian monarch, mainly from the side of the foreign capitalist owner

              Around treason, and cowardice, and deceit


              This is Nicholas II about a foreign capitalist owner, did I understand you correctly?
              1. 0
                11 October 2019 20: 50
                Quote: tesser
                This is Nicholas II about a foreign capitalist owner, did I understand you correctly?

                Now I don’t remember when exactly Nicholas II personally said this. But, in my opinion, allegedly from the recollections of eyewitnesses, when Nicholas II signed the abdication of the throne of the Republic of Ingushetia at the insistence of the provocateur-disinfector general and the traitor Alekseev, whose reports the tsar believed about the situation on the fronts, about the situation in Petrograd itself and about the danger for members of the monarch families.

                On the railways and transport junctions of the rear zone, in the second half of February of the 1917 of the year, extremely low discipline was also observed, high corruption in places.
                The Marxist Narodnik N. F. Danielson wrote that: “Railways, along with commercial banks, are the main pumps pumping resources from the village to the city and prosperous capitalist segments of the economy due to the impoverishment and degradation of the peasantry. ” And PMV did not stop this speculative process, but only intensified it toxicly.
                1. +1
                  11 October 2019 20: 57
                  Quote: Tatiana
                  Now I don’t remember when exactly Nicholas II personally said this.

                  Strange, pretty famous phrase. This is a diary entry after renunciation.
                  Quote: Tatiana
                  the traitor Alekseev, whose reports he believed about the situation on the fronts and about the situation in Petrograd itself and about the danger to members of the royal family

                  Sorry? Was the infantry general M.V. Alekseev a foreign capitalist owner? Was he somehow connected with them?
                  Quote: Tatiana
                  Marxist Narodnik N.F. Danielson wrote

                  I'm completely confused. The emperor ruined the very fact of the existence of railways?
                  1. 0
                    11 October 2019 21: 06
                    Quote: tesser
                    I'm completely confused. The emperor ruined the very fact of the existence of railways?

                    You asked about capitalism in RI, I answered you.
                    Quote: Tatiana
                    On the railways and transport junctions of the rear zone, in the second half of February of the 1917 of the year, extremely low discipline was also observed, HIGH CORRUPTION in the field.
                    Simply put, theft of goods into private ownership or the massive accumulation of initial private capital by thieves and speculators.
                    The Marxist Narodnik N. F. Danielson wrote that: “Railways, along with commercial banks, are the main pumpspumping resources from the village to the city and providing prosperity to the CAPITALISTIC SEGMENTS of the economy due to the impoverishment and degradation of the peasantry. ” And PMV did not stop this speculative process, but only intensified it toxicly.
                    1. 0
                      11 October 2019 23: 33
                      Quote: Tatiana
                      Simply put, theft of goods into private ownership or the massive accumulation of initial private capital by thieves and speculators.

                      I lost the thought again. Is it that foreign capitalist owners plundered goods on the railway? Initially, the problem was in them, it seems.
                      1. 0
                        12 October 2019 00: 50
                        The fact is that the large industry in the Republic of Ingushetia, including the railway, before the WWII mainly developed rapidly due to foreign investment and, accordingly, with the participation of foreign private owners and corrupt managers.
                        In the war, all who enriched themselves as they could were enriched. Like, the war will write everything off.
                        Why not understand something?
                      2. +2
                        12 October 2019 12: 38
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        Why not understand something?

                        Quote: Tatiana
                        developed rapidly due to foreign investment and, accordingly, with the participation of foreign private owners and corrupt managers.

                        Which railway in 1914 was controlled by foreign capital? What kind of "corrupt manager" do you mean, can you name at least 3 names? How did "corrupt managers" and especially "foreign private owners" affect the state of affairs on the railway in February 17th?
                      3. 0
                        16 October 2019 11: 15
                        Nicholas signed the abdication in the railway carriage, the railwaymen are to blame for everything, is it purely incomprehensible? wassat
    2. +5
      11 October 2019 07: 24
      Gorbi did not do PR ... Raisa did PR. HMS was engaged in the destruction of the ideological system. Systemically.
      1. +11
        11 October 2019 08: 43
        There is a whole bunch of them. With Yakovlev headed ..
      2. +10
        11 October 2019 09: 20
        Gorbi did not do PR
        ..

        You just didn’t watch TV then.
        He did not climb out of it
        1. +4
          11 October 2019 10: 10
          Quote: Olezhek
          You just didn’t watch TV then.
          He did not climb out of it

          I even remember that he said without a piece of paper .. Only thoughts were not there. There was a program. Everything is upside down. 5 people, graduate students and candidates of sciences, who listened to him for an hour, then asked each other: - "did anyone understand anything?" As a result, the fight against alcoholism ended with the cutting down of vineyards and the abolition of the state monopoly on vodka production. Belief in Marxism Leninism has become a belief in the power of the market. And so on ... This is not accidental, a stupid person could not act like that.
          1. -9
            11 October 2019 15: 17
            Unfortunately, the collapse of the USSR was not in Gorbachev and in the cutting down of vineyards - the country simply started running out of money in the early 80s, export made a profit in the form of a real minimum wage. The USSR had 20% of world GDP, which should bring the country from foreign trade from 500 to 800 billion rubles - that money, but in fact the largest export was in 1985 - 72664 million rubles with a total GDP for the same year of more than 3 trillion rubles, the same year the USSR traded with 145 countries.
            1. +4
              11 October 2019 18: 45
              Quote: Vadim237
              in the early 80s money just started to run out

              wassat laughing you contradict yourself! :
              Quote: Vadim237
              The USSR had 20% of world GDP
              - it was industrial production - turbines, airplanes, spare parts, rolling mills, semiconductors, textiles .... Now we have 3 percent of world GDP due to oil.
              Under that system, man was in demand!
              Quote: Vadim237
              The USSR traded with 145 countries.
              it also somehow does not combine with your position.
              The Soviet Union was collapsed with the help of the KGB, where spies climbed to the very top. Andropov's team pushed their own. Gorbachev, as a comfortable talking head ...
              1. -8
                11 October 2019 19: 14
                And what am I contradicting - the fact that the USSR didn’t make a damn on its exports, this is a fact, since there was exports in exchange for loyalty and "coconuts" and more than 70% of these 145 countries could not pay with currency, since they did not have it , 23 countries paid with money from the USSR "It was industrial production" - It was in the bulk of the same minerals and resources - 1986 machines were sent abroad 9100 pieces - here for more details http://istmat.info/node/9321 that the USSR exported and how much, and with whom he traded, export is especially interesting - which is equal to import. Turbines for aircraft may have been exported - but the USSR did not make gas turbines, but in Russia they did "Now we have 3 percent of world GDP at the expense of oil." - Oil and gas industry occupies from 19 to 34% in the structure of Russia's GDP.
                1. +4
                  11 October 2019 20: 29
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  And why am I contradicting the fact that the USSR didn’t earn nichrome on its exports?

                  The fact that the USSR has built enterprises, factories, plants and dams in friendly countries. The fact that he had nothing from this either. If he had a share of the profits of those enterprises, if he retained the right of ownership to them, the situation would have been different.
                  Responsible people did not understand the meaning of politics then. The idea of ​​universal equality and fraternity gave an obvious inclination, and instead of noticing it and correcting the course, they continued to shout a meaningless slogan. What could not but affect the attitude to power. Precisely because sense was lost, and fell asleep at party meetings
                  1. +1
                    11 October 2019 23: 53
                    He built, gave loans, pumped up with weapons - in short, he put all the world's parasites on his neck, but his neck could not stand it - they were still amazed, "And what is this deficit in everything, like we can and do everything." The country needed money, but don’t expect money from rogue countries - loyalty and barter were the basis between them and the USSR.
                  2. 0
                    12 October 2019 23: 35
                    Quote: aybolyt678
                    Precisely because the meaning was lost
                    So. And then money, rallies, and the sale of the USSR for dollars.
                2. 0
                  15 October 2019 06: 10
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  but the USSR didn’t do gas turbines,

                  Who told you that? Our 6,3 MW, in the West, 16 MW were purchased for the Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod gas pipeline.
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  export is especially interesting - which is equal to import.

                  Because the turnover was mainly carried out on barter, and the main thing was not the external but the internal market, where currency is not needed. all this would work if the internal "market" was at least 30% of the market and not a planned economy.
        2. 0
          11 October 2019 13: 02
          Quote: Olezhek
          He did not climb out of it

          As far as I am informed, Mikhal Sergeyevich closer to the 90th year tried to transfer the center of gravity of power from the CPSU to the state (President of the USSR, that’s all). The collective system of leadership of the CPSU began to constrain him from a certain moment. Malenkova at one time the same attempt (but forced, unlike the MS) led to Ekibastuz. Gorbachev was only in Foros (this is a plus), but on the other hand, for the Communist Party and the USSR, it ended fatally.
          1. +1
            13 October 2019 00: 18
            Quote: tesser
            Mikhal Sergeyevich closer to the 90th year tried to transfer the center of gravity of power from the CPSU to the state
            Mikhal Sergeevich is not himself. The power of the CPSU was ideocratic, without A. Yakovlev it could not do. In order to get involved in the political struggle with the Politburo of the CPSU, it was necessary to see this as the most clear meaning, or to have external management. MS itself today is similar to the CPSU of its time
            Feelings are reflected on the face, but I do not see the point in the eyes. To reform the USSR, it was necessary to bring something new to Marxism, and they replaced it with consumerism.
            1. -1
              13 October 2019 00: 42
              Quote: sniperino
              The power of the CPSU was ideocratic,

              Quote: sniperino
              in order to reform the USSR, it was necessary to introduce something new into Marxism,

              Come on you. All this bodyagie has been dead since the 60s.

              From a distance, Gorbachev’s mistakes seem obvious. It was just to return to the purity of Leninist positions. The only question that matters is the question of power, everything else is tactical details. About rhetoric - communism, socialism, that's all - and it’s ridiculous to speak.

              Consequently, it was necessary to move on to an ordinary rational dictatorship without any ideology. How did China. But no, M.S. All his life he lived in the atmosphere of a comprehensive Soviet lie and, unfortunately, was not enough bastard to act in Lenin's way.
              1. 0
                13 October 2019 00: 44
                Quote: tesser
                that's all
                The only thing that made the power of the CPSU legitimate.
                1. 0
                  13 October 2019 00: 53
                  Quote: sniperino
                  The only thing that made the power of the CPSU legitimate.

                  The rifle gives rise to power. Specifically, one can take an interest in the legitimacy of the Octobrists and right-wing Social Revolutionaries.
              2. 0
                2 November 2019 09: 44
                Quote: tesser
                Come on you. All this bodyagie has been dead since the 60s.

                From a distance, Gorbachev’s mistakes seem obvious. It was just to return to the purity of Leninist positions. The only question that matters is the question of power, everything else is tactical details. About rhetoric - communism, socialism, that's all - and it’s ridiculous to speak.

                Consequently, it was necessary to move on to an ordinary rational dictatorship without any ideology. How did China. But no, M.S. All his life he lived in the atmosphere of a comprehensive Soviet lie and, unfortunately, was not enough bastard to act in Lenin's way.

                STA? !! Does economics mean sideways? Well, if you look like that then the main reason is the huge, just overwhelming number of fools in this country. Which, instead of at least sorting out something, they preferred a monkey to bluntly copy the behavior of Western successful countries. How, at the same time, they didn’t completely ruin everything, a riddle over which more than one generation will guess.
        3. -3
          11 October 2019 22: 33
          Oleg, thanks for the article! hi
          Alas, modern Russia repeats all the mistakes of both the tsarist and the USSR. The introduction of disobedience, the substitution of religion for education, medicine, and science, fawning over the national republics, window dressing instead of solving pressing problems, and suppressing them are all markers of the ongoing collapse.
    3. +2
      11 October 2019 09: 45
      The main ideological blow was inflicted on the most inexperienced and easily guided part of society to the pupils of the last classes and students. What in the Russian Empire, what in the USSR it turned out to be that part of the citizens that is little thought out and easily influenced. Peasants, workers, and the military in the bulk joined later. Even now, Western emissaries are betting on the same strata of society of pupils of the last classes and students. And they who do not know the real life, the real situation in the country, the real economy, etc., frantically violate the law, and then arrange a squeal that they are fined, tried, etc. As the saying goes, what about us? We are fighting for a better future. Three different Russia, but there is only one scenario, maybe it’s not only in power, but in ourselves. It’s like with Makarevich, under the USSR he was against power, under Yeltsin he was against power, under Putin he was again against power. Probably it’s not in power, but in Makarevich.
      1. +2
        11 October 2019 13: 05
        Quote: Wend
        The main ideological blow was inflicted on the most inexperienced and easily guided part of society to the pupils of the last classes and students.

        Excuse me, are you talking about? About junkers?
        1. +1
          11 October 2019 13: 32
          Quote: tesser
          Quote: Wend
          The main ideological blow was inflicted on the most inexperienced and easily guided part of society to the pupils of the last classes and students.

          Excuse me, are you talking about? About junkers?

          I'm actually talking about students. Junkers are students of a military school.
          1. +2
            11 October 2019 13: 42
            Quote: Wend
            I'm actually talking about students

            Sorry, I did not understand. Which revolution did students make? 68 year?
            1. 0
              11 October 2019 13: 56
              Quote: tesser
              Quote: Wend
              I'm actually talking about students

              Sorry, I did not understand. Which revolution did students make? 68 year?

              I forgive you, but do you even read what is written?
              1. +1
                11 October 2019 14: 53
                Quote: Wend
                Do you even read what is written?

                I read. It says that you are trying to make up the events of the Russian revolution under the current propaganda. You The main ideological blow was dealt (Hindeburg) for high school students, and the Petrograd Soviet of Workers and soldiers deputies in conjunction with the ship committee of the cruiser "Aurora" and personally Comrade Belyshev, a prominent school student, connected later.
                1. 0
                  11 October 2019 15: 36
                  Quote: tesser
                  Quote: Wend
                  Do you even read what is written?

                  I read. It says that you are trying to make up the events of the Russian revolution under the current propaganda. You The main ideological blow was dealt (Hindeburg) for high school students, and the Petrograd Soviet of Workers and soldiers deputies in conjunction with the ship committee of the cruiser "Aurora" and personally Comrade Belyshev, a prominent school student, connected later.

                  Well, do not read the same) I explain. Student unrest began even before the revolution. For example. In 1886 year. Crowds of young people came to serve a memorial service at the Volkovo cemetery in order to honor the memory of the famous writer Nikolai Dobrolyubov, who during his life often criticized the authorities. However, the action was interrupted by the gendarmerie. Doesn’t resemble anything?
                  By the way, after that the terrorist organization "Narodnaya Volya" got a student, Alexander Ulyanov, into its ranks.
                  On the eve of the First World War, 8,5 thousand of Russian citizens studied in foreign universities. Most all received education in Switzerland, Germany and France .. The flow of students abroad began in the 1860's. Many were predisposed to radicalism. Doesn’t resemble anything?
                  The terrorist organization "Narodnaya Volya" actively involved students in its activities. One of the terrorists by the name of Andreyushkin sent a written message to a certain student Nikitin in Kharkov, in which he informed in a camouflaged form that a "big deal" was planned. And this letter by coincidence falls into the hands of the gendarmerie, which immediately sets up surveillance of the revolutionaries.
                  Sound familiar?
                  Tools and human material (for such organizations students are just material for achieving a goal) are the same in all three eras.
                  1. 0
                    11 October 2019 16: 14
                    Quote: Wend
                    However, the action was interrupted by the gendarmerie. Doesn’t resemble anything?

                    You mean that the second operpolk is on the fast track? Witty.
                    Quote: Wend
                    The flow of students studying abroad began in the 1860s. Many were predisposed to radicalism. Doesn’t resemble anything?

                    No alas. Those were returning. These left forever. And they are not at all inclined towards radicalism; they are mainly disposed to work and earn money. Not in Russia and not for Russia.
                    Quote: Wend
                    a written message to a certain student Nikitin ... falls into the hands of the gendarmerie

                    And what should this remind? Which of the First Martians was a student?
                    1. 0
                      11 October 2019 17: 05
                      And you turn everything funny, taking it out of context) However, I already answered you in my post. The last two lines. I can write again.
                      Tools and human material (for such organizations students are just material for achieving a goal) are the same in all three eras.
                      And finally
                      One Russian journalist once asked Tony Rocky about the possibility of turning Russian universities into “hot spots” of society.
                      Tony Rocky replied, despite the presence of short-term causes of university conflicts, the long-term reasons for connecting universities with a wide social movement have not yet ripened.

                      Tony rocky (Toronto, Canada). Master in historical sciences with a specialization in the pre-revolutionary history of Russia.
                      Research interests: political terrorism in the Russian Empire; Black-Hundred movement; political parties and social movements in pre-revolutionary Russia; the history of European revolutions and counter-revolutions; modern European political parties; religious and ideological eschatological movements in Russian and European history.
                      1. 0
                        11 October 2019 17: 27
                        Quote: Wend
                        Tools and human material (for such organizations students are just material for achieving a goal) are the same in all three eras.

                        Are you talking about the fact that Mikhailov and Perovskaya were "instruments"? Whose, if not secret? Really Tony of Toronto?

                        Quote: Wend
                        long-term reasons for connecting universities with a broad social movement have not yet matured.

                        And do not ripen. And what is so interesting about this? Or do you think the Canadian specialist in the history of the revolutionary movement caused such a stir?
                      2. 0
                        12 October 2019 21: 50
                        Quote: tesser
                        Are you talking about the fact that Mikhailov and Perovskaya were "instruments"? Whose, if not secret? Is Tony from Toronto?

                        At that time, all revolutionaries warmed London. And Toronto is a city in Canada, which is now a member of the British community.
                      3. 0
                        12 October 2019 23: 01
                        The Englishwoman blew up the king-liberator? Original version, not heard before.

                        Although if you recall that Marx and Engels, in the economic sense, are English ... There is something in this.
                      4. 0
                        14 October 2019 15: 26
                        Quote: tesser
                        Quote: Wend
                        Tools and human material (for such organizations students are just material for achieving a goal) are the same in all three eras.

                        Are you talking about the fact that Mikhailov and Perovskaya were "instruments"? Whose, if not secret? Really Tony of Toronto?

                        Quote: Wend
                        long-term reasons for connecting universities with a broad social movement have not yet matured.

                        And do not ripen. And what is so interesting about this? Or do you think the Canadian specialist in the history of the revolutionary movement caused such a stir?

                        You continue to flip all mi trolls)) well, well))) you are just an entertainer mass media player))
  2. +4
    11 October 2019 06: 13
    In one century, two collapses of the Great Empire - it's terrible! We survived the last ..... God forbid repetition!
    1. +7
      11 October 2019 06: 17
      The first collapse in a fairly short time managed to overcome. But with the second something, a hitch came out.
    2. +12
      11 October 2019 07: 27
      Quote from Uncle Lee
      In one century, two collapses of the Great Empire - it's terrible! We survived the last ..... God forbid repetition!
      Empire No. 1 was mostly barefoot and it did not fall apart but turned into the USSR! But the collapse of the USSR is a crisis in the control system
      1. -16
        11 October 2019 09: 17
        The problem of Nicholas II was precisely in the numerous failures in the military. Too many defeats. Too many “stocks” of management in general. And step by step, discontent and misunderstanding grew in the country.
        There were problems. I agree. Nicholas II did not take responsibility, did not crush the fifth column in 1905, and the reptile poisoned the country. Half the trouble became defeats. Ulyanov and others like him wished defeat to their homeland. What is democracy that smoke?
        1. +12
          11 October 2019 12: 22
          Not the Motherland, but the system. Can't you see the difference? Lenin first of all, by decree, introduced an 8-hour working day (out of hatred for the Motherland, I suppose), and the current "lover of the Motherland" was going to cancel all Soviet standards en masse - there is not only an 8-hour working day, but a lot of social guarantees, soon everything we will face this. The concept of "Motherland" is different for everyone. For some, this is the land where he was born, friends and people who surround him, the culture of their ancestors, for others, "Deep Purple", castles on the Cote d'Azur, battleship-sized yachts and "civilized countries" (these are those that formed the system of colonialism, and now developing countries are milked, including ours).
          1. +15
            11 October 2019 13: 47
            Quote: at84432384
            The concept of "Motherland" is different for everyone. For some, this is the land where he was born, friends and people who surround him, the culture of their ancestors, for others, "Deep Purple", castles on the French Riviera, yachts the size of a battleship

        2. +2
          11 October 2019 13: 36
          Yes, he never and for nothing "took responsibility" = "mediocrity" that ruined the country
        3. 0
          12 October 2019 21: 53
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          Ulyanov and others like him wished defeat to their homeland.

          It sounded like "the development of an imperialist war into a civil war"
    3. +11
      11 October 2019 08: 26
      We see that the system is degrading and there are no prerequisites for a trend change. This cannot go on forever.
    4. 0
      11 October 2019 08: 26
      We see that the system is degrading and there are no prerequisites for a trend change. This cannot go on forever.
    5. -8
      11 October 2019 09: 35
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      In one century, two collapses of the Great Empire - it's terrible! We survived the last ..... God forbid repetition!
      It will be if the fifth column of Democratic Libels is not driven under slippers.
      and during the rapid transformation of Russian society at the beginning of the 20th century, and even during the war, he did not want to make any real reforms. I didn’t want to. Even at gunpoint. And he was not going to share real power with any Duma.
      It must be such an idiotom, demand reform, during the war!
      That is, as we all perfectly understand, a bad driver can break a car, not because this is his goal, but because this is the end result of his activity, aimed at something completely different.
      Well, the reasons for a broken car can be a dozen more. Sawed-down brakes (democratization, democracy), a road in bumps (War), shooting on wheels (disruption of supplies by partner allies), bringing the driver to an insane state (conspiracies, murders of civil servants) ..... The car was broken not through the fault of the driver, but by the fact that he interfered with so many. And pull an owl on the globe, under the next nonsense, as many times as you like.
      1. +2
        11 October 2019 12: 56
        That is, after 1905, reform could not begin?
        There were many more years before the war.
        Yes, he simply was not going to do anything for the people, that’s the result of his actions
  3. +7
    11 October 2019 06: 15
    Three countries are flying around the country:
    Bear, Raika, perestroika ...

    I don’t agree about Marked One: this one just democratized. Mindlessly, in Seljuk style, but democratized. Because glasnost and multi-party system is still democratization. Through glasnost went watering g ... m of the Soviet past - also ... democratization. The Congress of People’s Deputies, where the hell do you understand who they’ve chosen - he himself once admitted to Pozner in an interview that he didn’t want to choose any Sakharov people’s deputies, he had to rig the election results very much ... For the sake of democracy, of course. Pre-democratized, bitch.
    1. +13
      11 October 2019 06: 24
      Glasnost - Already talked so much! Still chemical burping!
      Perestroika - everyone broke, but they didn’t build anything new!
      Acceleration - turned into braking!
      I here recently heard from the guarantor: "Acceleration!", So something so-such "dense" inspired!
      1. +18
        11 October 2019 06: 32
        Yomayo ... are you still listening to the guarantor? Strong-willed you are a man. I just read the extracts from his speeches, I’m not enough for more.
        1. +5
          11 October 2019 06: 39
          Quote: Dalny V
          lacks.

          I am a radio operator. And from all the ethereal noise I isolate only what I need.
          Automatically.... wink
        2. +9
          11 October 2019 08: 28
          . I only read extracts from his speeches

          Already sick from squeezing
      2. +3
        11 October 2019 07: 54
        Quote from Uncle Lee
        I here recently heard from the guarantor: "Acceleration!

        And as I saw the acceleration, I thought so - and with what sign?
        1. +3
          11 October 2019 13: 39
          So now there is a new trend: "negative growth", for example.
          And so, if we take the laws of physics, then acceleration is inevitable in the fall, as an option.
          1. +2
            11 October 2019 15: 39
            then acceleration is inevitable in the fall, as an option.


            Nope ... Figurines. The main thing is to choose the right frame of reference. Then you can stand still while "falling". And Rosstat will help you choose. laughing
    2. +10
      11 October 2019 06: 33
      Michael, I agree with you in the assessment of the Tagged. But I want to supplement your thought a little. The problem is not what is better, but what is worse for Russia / USSR: democracy or authoritarianism. The problem is different: to the extent of responsibility for their actions. Why did Stalin, for example, despite his mistakes and miscalculations, until his death, remain a respected leader of the people? Yes, because he carried the entire responsibility for the country and people. And comparing his personality with modern politicians, we often forget about it. I repeat once again: Stalin was ready to answer for every action he made and every decision he made both to the party and to the people. And such as Gorbachev and others like him (EBN, Gaidar, Chubais and others) were not only not ready for this, but they were panicky and afraid to answer for what they had done to the country. Why do you think the tagged donkey over the hill, if he was a citizen of the USSR? Because he is afraid. Moreover, he is not afraid of our liberal court - he is afraid of the PAYMENT OF RETURN. And he is not alone, by the way.
      1. +5
        11 October 2019 06: 37
        Remarochka:
        if he was a citizen of the USSR?
        this bastard was not just a citizen, to say the least.
        The rest I agree. Yes, afraid. Although he sincerely does not understand why they hate him. But, on the other hand, many other characters provoke / provoke no less hatred - Chubais, Gaidar, EBN ... Of these, no one has left the country ...
        1. +6
          11 October 2019 06: 42
          Out of this horde of reformers, only one got his own. For some reason, fate is for some reason too supportive.
          1. +2
            11 October 2019 06: 49
            And one is who? As for me, so far none of them have felt the full power of gratitude.
            1. +1
              11 October 2019 15: 31
              A friend and accomplice of Tolik Rusty, who went into the systemic opposition, and then inadvertently caught a bullet.
        2. +4
          11 October 2019 10: 20
          Quote: Dalny V
          Chubais, Gaidar, EBN ... Of these, nobody left the country ..

          they will leave the country when we realize what the execution of the Supreme Council is. In fact, it is worse than the House of Trade Unions in Odessa. But then we looked at it as an element of democracy, and only now we are seeing clearly ...
          1. -3
            11 October 2019 19: 58
            But then we looked at it as an element of democracy,
            Many did not even know how many people died ...
      2. +10
        11 October 2019 09: 00
        In my opinion, speaking of the responsibility of Stalin, ((Vadim T.)) It is impossible not to say about the responsibility of the Bolsheviks immediately, from the very beginning. There is such a party!----that's what. Everything that happened after October 1917 --- the Bolsheviks did not refuse responsibility for any side of life.
      3. +4
        11 October 2019 12: 42
        Stalin served his people, and was responsible to them. And what "people" does the current government serve? The answer is not at all difficult - just look at their second passports and the passports of their loved ones. Here they answer to him, and serve him. This "people" is called financial globalism. Here, however, an unexpected thing happened - this globalism began to collapse (as Marx and Lenin had foreseen in their time). A problem arises for the Russian liberal get-togethers - they will have to answer!
        1. +9
          11 October 2019 13: 52
          Quote: at84432384
          And what "people" does the current government serve? The answer is not at all difficult - just look at their second passports and the passports of their loved ones.

      4. +4
        11 October 2019 13: 50
        Quote: Vadim T.
        ... which is worse for Russia / USSR: democracy or authoritarianism.

        For Russia, the worst thing is the irresponsibility of the authorities, how they get to it and devour, devour and still not choke. If they died about busting, it would be good, but they multiply and multiply. Here's the trouble! And the example comes from above. each one below takes an example from the one above. This is called "vertical"
    3. +3
      11 October 2019 07: 36
      Quote: Dalny V
      I don’t agree about Marked One: this one just democratized. Mindlessly, in Seljuk style, but democratized. Because glasnost and multi-party system is still democratization.

      Under Gorbachev there was no democracy - there was ochlocracy (power of the crowd). And this crowd, according to special manuals, was deprived of the inner core - faith in the greatness of the achievements of grandfathers and fathers.
      On whose money did Solzhenitsyn and AIDS print information ??? all kiosks of the country were inundated!
      Try to say at least a word in defense of socialism during the period of perestroika! remember Yegor Ligachev? or "a letter from Nina Andreeva"? You would be immediately pecked, ostracized, or made a chop
      1. 0
        11 October 2019 13: 14
        Quote: aybolyt678
        Try to say at least a word in defense of socialism during the period of perestroika! remember Yegor Ligachev? or "a letter from Nina Andreeva"? You would be immediately pecked, ostracized, or made a chop

        To be honest, I didn't quite understand the thesis. E. Ligachev, member of the Politburo. N. Andreeva, published her manifesto in the newspaper "Soviet Russia". Some of them were shot? Planted? Forced to emigrate? "Made a chop" - it's like Kashina, or what?
        1. +1
          11 October 2019 18: 34
          The press made a mockery of Yegor Ligachev! in my opinion this is the first case with a member of the Politburo.
          Prior to this, there was a case with the top officials of the party elite of the Baltic republics - who came to Gorbachev with proposals on measures to preserve the republics within the USSR, Mikhail Sergeyevich listened to them, pointed out the importance of the proposals, and then they were arrested at the plane ...
          1. -1
            11 October 2019 20: 01
            Quote: aybolyt678
            The press made a mockery of Yegor Ligachev!

            Horrible. How is it with Mr. Medvedev or B.N. Yeltsin of the year 99?
            Quote: aybolyt678
            and then they were arrested at the ramp ...

            Here is more detailed, if possible. What organizations did the liberals establish to arrest the secretaries of the Central Committee of the republics?
            1. 0
              11 October 2019 20: 20
              Quote: tesser
              Here is more detailed, if possible. What organizations did the liberals establish to arrest the secretaries of the Central Committee of the republics?

              I read about this in detail in the book by Lisichkin et al. "The war after the war. Information occupation continues," after reading it, everything becomes completely clear.
              Liberals did not organize organizations. They used existing ones. They called their actions "new thinking", did what they wanted, and the people looked forward to the imminent victory of the market economy and prepared to own villas on the Cote d'Azur.
              1. 0
                11 October 2019 21: 03
                Quote: aybolyt678
                Liberals did not organize organizations. They used existing ones.

                Sorry, I didn’t quite understand you. Member of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU, chairman of the KGB of the USSR Army General Kryuchkov - was a liberal?
                Quote: aybolyt678
                people ... preparing to own villas on the Cote d'Azur.

                Sorry, I don’t remember about the pitchfork. Where did such a stupid people come from in the USSR? Or did you specifically mean someone?
                1. 0
                  12 October 2019 05: 59
                  Quote: tesser
                  Chairman of the KGB of the USSR Army General Kryuchkov - was a liberal?

                  in this case, we mean people breaking the existing system. Liberalism does not think beyond breaking up the system and selling resources.
                  Quote: tesser
                  Sorry, I don’t remember about the pitchfork. Where did such a stupid people come from in the USSR?

                  The people then had seen enough of Hollywood films, with an abundance of cars, villas, and other capitalist nishtyaks. Do you remember video salons at every step ???
                  1. +1
                    12 October 2019 12: 41
                    Quote: aybolyt678
                    in this case, we mean people breaking the existing system.

                    Do not understand. Again.
                    Quote: tesser
                    What organizations did the liberals establish to arrest the secretaries of the Central Committee of the republics?

                    Who arrested?
                    Quote: aybolyt678
                    The people then had seen enough of Hollywood films, with an abundance of cars, villas, and other capitalist nishtyaks

                    In the 80s?
                    Quote: aybolyt678
                    Do you remember video salons at every step ???

                    In Moscow? Do not know. In our village? There was not one.
                    1. 0
                      12 October 2019 19: 51
                      Quote: tesser
                      In Moscow? Do not know. In our village? There was not one.

                      Have you lived in Russia? since 88, they have been ubiquitous like mushrooms after rain.
                      Maybe you and AIDS INFO did not read in the late 80s ??
                      1. +1
                        12 October 2019 20: 28
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        since 88, they have been ubiquitous like mushrooms after rain.

                        I don’t know, maybe I was looking badly. But in our early 90s, a private video recorder was a rarity, maybe one on a nine-story staircase.
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Maybe you and AIDS INFO did not read in the late 80s ??

                        Firstly, I never read this publication even by accident, somehow life has developed.
                        Secondly, there was no Speed-Info in the 80s. The first issue is the end of the 89th, millions of copies are approximately 92nd. The main newspaper of the last years of the USSR was "Argumenty i Fakty".
                        Thirdly, the names have no meaning. I remember the article of the 90th, it seems, of the year in which the author, in white and white, urged the Russians to abandon the socialist path.

                        Article in the magazine "Krestyanka".

                        And, finally, fourthly, the "foreign countries" of that time was represented by "Slave Izaura", sorry. Domestic authors mainly wrote about domestic realities. And they wrote, as a rule, quite rightly. In particular, that Robespierre from the magazine "Krestyanka" analyzed the story of the deaths of several workers who were trying to clean the manure storage in violation of technology, and came to the conclusion that "the whole system needs to be changed" through a long series of really controversial decisions of responsible comrades of different levels that influenced the circumstances this accidental, in general, tragedy.
                      2. +2
                        13 October 2019 05: 35
                        Quote: tesser
                        Thirdly, the names have no meaning.
                        drinks
                        Here! smile somewhere here we have a common denominator! the fact is that Gorbachev's rise to power was marked by the fact that the chief editors of all popular media such as Ogonyok were changed. There were many programs denigrating life such as "Look". Literally everything was poured with slops, vicious relationships were revealed, the system was called upon to change ... And the market was offered. Market relations which according to Marx wassat must tidy up the country. On this Yavlinsky got out. As soon as someone tried to say something good about the Communists or Stalin, or called not to break the system but to properly adjust it, they were harassed.
                        Solzhenitsyn appeared in all the kiosks. The story of this is well described by J. Matlock in "The Fall of an Empire"
                        In addition, the story of the plane on Red Square allowed to clear the top of the army !!!!!
                        as a result, public consciousness imprisoned for justice hated the communists. There was no one to defend the USSR, the last heroes died in the building of the Supreme Council as in the House of Trade Unions in Odessa. These tragedies are completely similar.
                        putting together the facts, we can conclude that Perestroika was played out according to notes, that this was not stupidity of one leader but a planned operation, with carefully thought out moves
                      3. -1
                        13 October 2019 10: 27
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        we can conclude that Perestroika was played out as if it were notes, that this was not stupidity of one leader but a planned operation, with carefully thought out moves

                        Forgive me, but I find it hard to believe that a person who saw that orchestra and those conductors with his own eyes could say such nonsense. M.S. at a certain moment he decided to play the game "the tsar with the people against the broken boyars." Uzbek business, etc. Glasnost initially went to the same piggy bank, thrust criticism and self-criticism, a very Soviet topic.
                        Uncomplicated, like, a game, but, as it turned out, not for him.
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Literally everything was watered by slops, vicious relationships were revealed, it was called to change the system ...

                        You see. The problem of publicity was that the Soviet Union of that period looked something like this.

                        Naturally, when they allowed me to speak, many proposals appeared to demolish him.

                        The problem is that how to demolish is understandable, but how to build is not. A bunch of it’s come out, sincerely believing that Russia is the Soviet government = Finland. More reasonable people who said that Rhodesia + democracy = Zimbabwe do not remember a single one. This thought seemed insulting.

                        But it was precisely democracy in its African version that should have taken a closer look. The countries of Central Asia showed this almost instantly (but they are all our (27+ people) compatriots, who now remembers this?). For some other post-Soviet countries, this took longer.

                        The picture with the house, by the way, is from free Russia in 2016, like, of the year, Arkhangelsk.
                      4. +1
                        13 October 2019 23: 00
                        you seem to have forgotten Tsoi, this bloated mediocrity hungry for change ..
                        For me, the USSR looked different, I lived in the North, in the Magadan region in the middle of the taiga sea. You know, there is such a song - under the wing of an airplane the green sea of ​​taiga sings about something.
                      5. +1
                        13 October 2019 23: 53
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        you seem to have forgotten Tsoi, this bloated mediocrity hungry for change ..

                        First of all, what kind of country is this that "inflated mediocrity" can destroy? Over there Timati the moment has come to change everything in life (and go live in London) 10 years ago, then what? By the way, why did Choi ruin a country that Vysotsky did not ruin?

                        Secondly, why is this desire for change not in tune with Soviet ideology? If anything good was in the Soviet regime, it was a powerful modernization impulse. Where he went by the 80s is not a question for Tsoi.

                        The USSR of the 80s, even the 70s, is not the country that launched Gagarin.
                      6. 0
                        14 October 2019 09: 42
                        Quote: tesser
                        First, what kind of country is it that can be destroyed by "inflated mediocrity"?

                        A lot of mediocrity came out, Affectionate May for example. They formed a worldview.
                        Quote: tesser
                        Secondly, why is this desire for change not in tune with Soviet ideology?

                        very much in tune. Soviet ideology implies social justice, public ownership of the means of production and the scientific Marxist basis on which the socialist state was founded.
                        Another thing is that they made a dogma out of ideology, they stopped developing it. How do you compare the goals of the Communist Party before Khrushchev and after: - "the all-round development of the personality of every Soviet person and the improvement of material well-being" and
                        another: - "More complete satisfaction of the needs of the Soviet people" ???. Satisfaction of needs is a basic element of Capitalism, from that moment the USSR was doomed. I believe that Khrushchev's entourage included people who, using his erratic character, pumped him up with emotions, and then Nikita Sergeevich beat him with a slipper at the UN, offered the Chinese Stalin's coffin and fought the Expressionists. Khrushchev left, but those people stayed and continued the work.
                      7. +1
                        14 October 2019 12: 39
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Affectionate May for example

                        Yura Shatunov ruined the USSR with Tsoi? Hour by hour is not easier.
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Satisfying needs is a basic element of Capitalism, from that moment the USSR was doomed.

                        I agree with that. Where Stalin’s covenants are true — specifically, in North Korea — socialism is not bad at all. Where there is satisfaction of needs, there is no socialism. Including Chinese rebirths.
                      8. 0
                        14 October 2019 15: 03
                        Quote: tesser
                        Where Stalin’s precepts are true - specifically, in North Korea - socialism is quite good

                        In China too. I draw your attention to the fact that China has implemented the NEP and Industrialization in one bottle.
                        Quote: tesser
                        Yura Shatunov ruined the USSR with Tsoi? Hour by hour is not easier

                        Yes Yes! Elena Yakovleva in the movie interdevochka smile
                        Quote: tesser
                        Where there is satisfaction of needs, there is no socialism.

                        satisfaction of needs is not the Party's task. Just as the Church does not have to fulfill the functions of God lol
                      9. +2
                        14 October 2019 19: 41
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        I draw your attention to the fact that China has implemented the NEP and Industrialization in one bottle.

                        Yeah. And he built such a special version of socialism, with the stock exchange and billionaires.
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        satisfaction of needs is not the task of the Party

                        It is what it is.
                      10. 0
                        14 October 2019 21: 33
                        Quote: tesser
                        Uh-huh.

                        Quote: tesser
                        It is what it is

                        something completely manual became .... smile
        2. 0
          11 October 2019 20: 53
          Quote: tesser
          Have any of them been shot? Planted? Forced to emigrate?

          I remember the Komsomol meeting of the Institute’s stream, where this article was discussed, was found to be inappropriate to the new thinking, and harmful. When voting was warned that dissent will be recorded by name.
          1. 0
            11 October 2019 23: 31
            Quote: aybolyt678
            When voting was warned that dissent will be recorded by name.

            Horrible. Well, recorded, so what?
            1. 0
              12 October 2019 05: 55
              and the fact that these names would later appear in the institute wall newspaper, they would be persuaded at meetings, deprived of permits to the camp, well ... it wasn’t accepted to stand out, it’s unpleasant.
              1. 0
                12 October 2019 12: 42
                Quote: aybolyt678
                well .. it wasn’t accepted to stand out, it’s unpleasant.

                If I understood correctly, you said that these people destroyed your homeland.
                Quote: aybolyt678
                bowed at meetings, would deprive vouchers for the camp

                Wow.
                1. 0
                  12 October 2019 19: 48
                  I was too young, everyone around was too young ... Hollywood showed a different life, we all lived in anticipation of something new. Everyone was tired of the old people at the head of the country, not a single sane person believed that they could do anything. No one thought that the USSR would collapse!
                  1. 0
                    13 October 2019 20: 05
                    How old are the current leaders?
      2. 0
        13 October 2019 21: 40
        And you do not think why so? Forgot empty shelves in stores? People then (except for experienced, wise old people) were happy about the collapse of the USSR - they thought they would live better, as in the developed countries of the world, no one in a nightmare could think that we would get to today's impoverishment of the people
    4. +2
      11 October 2019 07: 36
      I don’t agree about Marked One: this one just democratized. Mindlessly, in Seljuk style, but democratized.


      The courtyard was attended by the end of the 20 century.
      The era of scientific and technological revolution, as they wrote then.
      The times of "enlightened absolutism" have irrevocably sunk into oblivion
      By that moment ...
      And so yes, Michael would not have refused the mantle ...
    5. +1
      11 October 2019 10: 13
      Quote: Dalny V
      people didn’t want to choose any Sugar in people's deputies, I had to rig the election results very much ... For the sake of democracy, of course.

      Yes! The electoral system of the USSR was not perfect. The result of the vote, given the existence of a one-party system, was known in advance. But the votes of ordinary people were counted without falsification. Hence the high turnout in the elections. In modern Russia, the electoral system has degraded so much that people stop going to the polls, not believing in the objectivity of this system. Recognizing that this system is rotten, Panfilova does not see any options for reforming it in the context of the existing "political strategy." Is the circle closed?
      1. +3
        11 October 2019 13: 01
        The Soviet system was simple as a turnip and formed a social cast of society. True, by bureaucratic methods, but nonetheless. In the Soviets, in certain proportions, party and non-party, workers, engineers, collective farmers, and doctors were represented. teachers, academics, actors and so on. and so on. Now only the bourgeois and their representatives can be elected. This is not even a caricature of Western democracy; it is already an estate-bourgeois system. Such a design is not viable and will collapse. Most likely very soon. I would like it without blood. but how can it be ...
        1. 0
          11 October 2019 20: 47
          Quote: at84432384
          In the Soviets, in certain proportions, party and non-party, workers, engineers, collective farmers, and doctors were represented. teachers, academics, actors and so on. and so on. Now only the bourgeois and their representatives can be elected. This is not even a caricature of Western democracy; it is already an estate-bourgeois system.

          about the class bourgeois system to the point ++, but not about the Soviets. Under Stalin, they were formed according to the production principle — the larger the enterprise, the more deputies there defended the interests of their voters (enterprises) —they served labor.
          under Khrushchev, the Soviets began to be formed according to the territorial principle - as a result, there could be one person from the city-forming enterprise and many from housewives. I exaggerate, of course, this system began to slow down the development of production and introduced confusion in the interaction of enterprises.
  4. +4
    11 October 2019 06: 30
    I personally think that the empire was ruined by the stupidity of one person who did not want or could not reform the state, and the party nomenclature, which was the capitalists of that time, as well as speculators and guilds who wanted to legalize capital, ruined the USSR.
    1. +4
      11 October 2019 07: 36
      Quote: Pessimist22
      and the Soviet Union collapsed the party nomenclature, which was the capitalists of the time

      they were not capitalists but constituted the bourgeois stratum of Soviet society
    2. +2
      11 October 2019 14: 55
      God be with you! Some insignificant Gorbachev (who never learned to pronounce the word "azerbaijan" correctly) could have ruined the USSR ?! Remember how Romanov (the Leningrad leader) and the Belarusian leader Masherov (just physically) were destroyed? The nomenklatura wanted to have privileges and not be responsible for them, firstly, and pass them on by inheritance, and secondly. This was done. Gorbachev-Yeltsin were only a tool in this "transformation". What happened, we see. How long? We will see.
      1. 0
        11 October 2019 15: 59
        Vladimir. Everything is much simpler here. Not a single high-ranking official forgives when he develops vigorous activity below the rank and enjoys popularity among people. By this, he overshadows a high figure. It was, and it will be.
      2. 0
        11 October 2019 20: 49
        Quote: at84432384
        What happened, we see. How long?

        to win, sometimes you need to burn Moscow smile
  5. +8
    11 October 2019 06: 35
    Impunity and irremovability of mediocre leaders lead to sad results. In the USSR, those who fell into the "cage" were dragged from one chair to another as they failed in their activities. And the names of Mutko, Serdyukov, etc. do not remind of anything?
    1. +6
      11 October 2019 07: 42
      Quote: Michael m
      Impunity and irremovability of mediocre leaders lead to sad results. In the USSR, those who fell into the "cage" were dragged from one chair to another as they failed in their activities. And the names of Mutko, Serdyukov, etc. do not remind of anything?

      We have "amazing" managers, they managed to copy and multiply all the vices, and the achievements were crossed out, crumpled up and thrown into the trash.
      1. +6
        11 October 2019 09: 11
        Quote: Svarog
        ...... We have "amazing" managers, they managed to copy and multiply all the vices, and the achievements were deleted, crumpled and thrown into the trash ..
        This is all the more "amazing" because they got their opportunities thanks to the USSR, which, not only is now so vilified, blamed, but also try to pretend that the USSR did not exist at all. And everything somehow by itself ...
        1. 0
          11 October 2019 09: 22
          Just not surprising. They are brought up by the communist system and nothing else can be expected from them. It would be strange to expect creation from the heirs of party nomenclature.
    2. +1
      11 October 2019 08: 10
      Frau Merkel is already 4 years old - this is me about the "turnover" of power in Europe, and the topic of "armchairs" can be studied following the example of the behavior of the US State Department.
      But only Russia is blamed for this!
  6. +2
    11 October 2019 06: 46
    Internal tensions and disagreements, different levels of development, national question. The complexity of management increased, the quality of the elite decreased. Instead of solving problems, they moved to other levels; the deficit of everything and everything began to grow. Not a great country, but a musical instrument on which they skillfully played to destroy the country. Who is a separate issue. And the collapse solved some problems and laid bare others. Time heals but also teaches, if not, then everything can happen again, on a different scale.
    1. +3
      11 October 2019 07: 51
      Quote: Ali Kokand
      The complexity of management increased, the quality of the elite decreased

      Exactly. As indeed now! There is no elite training system. The trouble is that the term Elite itself is replaced by a different concept. Elite is the best, social function of the Elite is to set an example of how to live and die. In our country, the elite is called Bablonauts in power, and the Soviet elite were figures who skillfully used communist rhetoric to disguise their bourgeois status.
      In general, the author’s intention to draw an analogy between RI and the USSR is unsuccessful. Instead of an analogy, it would be better to use an analysis method to identify the difference between the two systems.
      the analogy there is only that there has been a degeneration of power.
      1. +3
        11 October 2019 07: 56
        In general, the author’s intention to draw an analogy between RI and the USSR is unsuccessful.


        1 Well, why not?
        Religion does not seem to forbid.
        17-91 mapping provides a lot of material for analysis
        2 Cycle for Russia: imperial order-democratization-chaos and collapse
        not built by the author
        Not my idea ever.
        1. +1
          11 October 2019 08: 21
          Quote: Olezhek
          a lot of material for analysis

          analysis is a philosophical method of disassembling facts, synthesis assembly, analogy is something else than analysis .. I’m talking about this
  7. +1
    11 October 2019 07: 18
    “Some Western Sovietologists predicted that the cause of the collapse of the Soviet Union would be the struggle of non-Russian nations for independence. This did not happen. As always in Russia, everything was decided in the center. And it was not so much perestroika in itself that was disastrous for the regime (and, of course, the economic reforms that made up its essence were poorly thought out and even worse implemented), as much as publicity, disorienting, disarming and confusing the ruling political class and the ruling elite.

    How could this elite allow such a turn of events? Gone mad? Rushed like a whale, dying herself ashore? Or, conversely, did a grandiose, unprecedented historical maneuver, getting rid of the Marxist ballast?

    Even if we proceed from the fact that society as a whole is ripe for changes, both materially and spiritually, these changes could not have occurred if the ruling elite had not changed, primarily its ideological component, including those people who influence on Gorbachev when he began perestroika. "

    Georgy Ilyich Mirsky “Life in three eras”
  8. +7
    11 October 2019 07: 32
    all their heads were duped, with all this perestroika, glasnost, and new thinking together. well, because at the beginning of this collapse, like some kind of veil, my eyes were shrouded. In the year 84 I came home from work and worked right away, and as I remember now, these are all perestroika conversations in the cabins, during lunch, and the end of work. it’s a domino, and the argument is hoarse, almost a fight, here are cotton cases in Uzbekistan, the first elections to the Supreme Council, and most importantly this idiotic prohibition, who remembers what happened in the lines. and then it began to seem like they were driving a nose, but I can’t understand how. here the Balts voiced that they were forcibly joined the union, and all the other republics followed, and everything went to hell. the hunchback is exactly to blame for everything, but the soul has a bad sediment, they themselves all scammed something wrong, then they did it.
  9. +6
    11 October 2019 07: 33
    Russia and the Russian world can survive only when existing as an empire. Such a vast territory and numerous nations cannot be controlled otherwise. Who calls for a different path of development of the country, either a traitor, or.
  10. -7
    11 October 2019 07: 39
    The article is stupid, which is curious - all these nonsense about the Empress Alexandra Fedorovna was dissolved by these very liberals whom the author does not see point blank ............. the turbulent activities of Alexandra Fedorovna and Raisa Maximovna had severe consequences ......, it’s necessary to compose such an author.
    The author! After Kerensky came to power, he created a commission to identify evil spirits (just like that, no more and no less) in the highest echelons of the tsarist government, including the activities of Alexandra Fedorovna, found nothing, no matter how hard they tried, it was documented.
    Stop hacking.
  11. +1
    11 October 2019 07: 40
    Mikhail Sergeevich ... was not going to change anything

    But what about - "Everything that I did with the Soviet Union, I did in the name of our god Moses"
    Probably the role of personality in history is great. But there is no need to exaggerate the significance of individual surnames - they appear in specific situations, in some kind of "mainstream" currents of time. How many names of poets, writers of the 19th, 20th centuries are known, where are the talents of such a level today?
    The answer to the question why they didn’t fall apart in specific surnames. Not in a separate fragment of the country - management. Strange - the reasons must be understood, but this is not clarified at the collective level, there are no attempts at a joint search. Who needs this? - The victims, which are the majority.
  12. +2
    11 October 2019 07: 40
    And the slaughter phrase “But under Stalin there was order!” we must answer this way: "But under Stalin there were victories." And not a dull sitting in a swamp, announced by patriotic slogans

    Victories without order will look random .. and victory without order is hardly possible. But sitting in a swamp and croaking slogans is right to the point .. that's exactly what happens.
    1. +5
      11 October 2019 09: 32
      UPDATE.
      Quote: Svarog
      ... Victories without order will look random .. and victory without order is hardly possible. But the seats in the swamp and croaking slogans -.
      Yes, this is not the croaking of slogans from the swamp, but further immersion in the swamp, while cooling down the previously achieved. And if you recall the recent words about the next 20 years, it turns out that over the past 28 years they did not catch up with the USSR, and over the next 20 years they will not improve the current situation .... And why was all this? To improve the standard of living of the oligarchs? Another answer is not to suggest.
      1. +9
        11 October 2019 09: 39
        Quote: Reptiloid
        And if you recall the recent words about the next 20 years, it turns out that over the past 28 years they did not catch up with the USSR

        To approach at least the USSR, you need to produce everything yourself from needles and airplanes .. and in 20 years all production has collapsed completely .. The vaunted Superjet consists of 70% of foreign components, the same VAZ is now Renault in fact .. Everything is sold out and they did not create anything of their own - here are all the achievements of these "craftsmen", but the oil went down like this ... so everything sailed ..
        Quote: Reptiloid
        And why was all this? To improve the standard of living of the oligarchs? Another answer is not to suggest.

        Just for the sake of this, a narrow group of people, by prior conspiracy, destroyed the great USSR and created a small-town cooperative, whose members make good money on the sale of "national property" and robbing the population ..
        1. +6
          11 October 2019 09: 51
          All the words about further stability (due to a decrease in the standard of living of the population and its debt load), indicate the absence of responsibility for anything.
          Just like the chorus of a song sounds the state should not, the state should not .... Either Olga Glatskikh, then the deputy from Buryatia Lyudmila Pakhomova, then the doctor of medical sciences Malysheva .......
          It seems like the population ---- should not, but only the oligarchs should
        2. -4
          11 October 2019 10: 04
          Especially the WHA. Those buckets with nuts that he produced had a very vague relationship with automobiles. Keeping on the conveyor for several decades variations on the theme of the primitive Fiat-124 is undoubtedly an achievement. At Fiat itself, several model lines have changed during this time. Renault-Nissan is bad or good, I don’t know, but now AvtoVAZ produces cars, for its price they are quite good. The SSJ is a stretch aircraft, but competitive, unlike the products of the aviation industry of the 70s-80s.
          1. +3
            11 October 2019 10: 10
            Quote: AS Ivanov.
            Renault Nissan is bad or good, I don’t know, but now AvtoVAZ produces cars, for its price it’s very good

            So it’s essentially a Renault branch .. and not AvtoVAZ anymore .. but the price is clearly overstated, if the price tag of thousands were 100-150 cheaper than now, I would agree with you that
            AvtoVAZ produces cars, for its price very good

            Now for this money the Chinese can be taken not very bad, and if you add 50 tons, then the Korean ..
            unlike the products of the aviation industry of the 70s-80s.

            In general, it is not appropriate to compare modern equipment with the 80s .. We do not compare tanks manufactured during the Second World War with today's ones ..
            1. +1
              11 October 2019 10: 42
              I do not recommend taking a Chinese, there are so many little things in which the devil hides - cars are not their strong point. We, at one time, had a good car, our own, our own: Moskvich 408/412. Almost half of the production was exported not only to satellites, but also to Germany, France, and England. In Belgium there was even a screwdriver production. First places in international rallies in the late 60s. But, we calmed down on our laurels and stopped in development. And so in many industries. Shaft, instead of high-quality products ("less is better, but better" VI Lenin) Growing technological lag in many industries. As soon as they opened their market to the whole world, the products of many enterprises became, suddenly, no one needed, the enterprises fell apart. Now we produce much less than in the Soviet period, but the products, as a rule, are quite competitive. (The same Rostselmash, Shvabe)
              1. +2
                11 October 2019 10: 49
                Quote: AS Ivanov.
                I do not recommend taking the Chinese, there are so many little things in which the devil is hiding - cars are not their horse.

                I’m already buying a third Chinese friend, everyone is happy, the first one that was decided by us, I bought five years ago, has been traveling without problems so far. The Chinese auto industry is learning fast and with every goth car they are getting better ..
                Quote: AS Ivanov.
                As soon as we opened our market to the whole world - so the products of many enterprises became, suddenly, nobody needs them,

                Nonsense is complete, excuse me .. then everyone tried to buy everything for a penny, from which the enterprises stupidly did not have money for production .. Take the same VAZ, as there was demand for it then .. so it remains now .. And those those who are bent are victims of all sorts of schemes according to which rich bandits ...
                1. +2
                  11 October 2019 13: 39
                  Quote: Svarog
                  ....... then they tried to buy everyone and everyone for a penny, from which the enterprises stupidly did not have money for production .. Take the same VAZ, as there was a demand for it then .. so it remains now .. And those those who are bent are victims of all sorts of schemes according to which rich bandits ...
                  If we are talking about the late 80s, early 90s, then shock therapy, it
                  not only people, she squeezed the enterprises in a vice? So I get it. ???? Just as people lost their savings when prices rose tens of thousands of times, the same thing happened with enterprises — there was such preparation for privatization ...
              2. 0
                11 October 2019 21: 07
                Quote: AS Ivanov.
                As soon as we opened our market to the whole world - so the products of many enterprises became, suddenly, no one needed, the enterprises fell in.

                especially touched by the words Suddenly no one needs. They are key. The fact is that the products of many enterprises did not produce consumer goods at all, but intermediate products necessary for other enterprises in the industry. With that inflated thirst for profit and sudden "freedom" for some figures it was more profitable to sell the enterprise for scrap than to develop it for the good of the country. Besides Exchange Rates corrected in such a way that everything Soviet suddenly became expensive and imports cheap, in the bottom line it turned out that by selling one machine the entire industry stopped, and there was nothing left to do but sell it, for scrap
      2. -3
        11 October 2019 09: 51
        Quote: Reptiloid
        . And why was all this?

        So you yourself wanted to ... all this - They stigmatized the party nomenclature, the command and administrative system, rallied, missed the sausage, so now vote - for what they fought, they ran into something.
        1. +3
          11 October 2019 10: 17
          Quote: bober1982
          So you yourself wanted ... all this

          They didn’t want this .. Hunchback promised us something completely different ... they simply deceived us, as usual. And then it was easy to deceive, because there really were problems .. but no one wanted the collapse of the USSR, no one wanted a refusal of social gains .. the people wanted the state apparatus to be reformed, so that it would be possible to conduct small and medium-sized businesses, so that they could had to travel abroad ..
          1. -3
            11 October 2019 10: 26
            Quote: Svarog
            the people wanted the state apparatus to be reformed, that it would be possible to conduct small and medium-sized businesses, that it would be possible to travel abroad ..

            Everyone threw themselves into Poland and Turkey for cheap clothes, all the great communist construction projects threw up, filled up all the bazaars - with characteristic cheap beige (black) jackets, terrible boiled jeans and sweaters, also characteristic. It was the collapse of the ideas of Marxism-Leninism in our country, complete and final, before that at least there was an appearance (in the form of a talking room)
          2. +3
            11 October 2019 10: 34
            Quote: Svarog
            Quote: bober1982
            So you yourself wanted ... all this

            They didn’t want this .. Hunchback promised us something completely different ... they simply deceived us, as usual. And then it was easy to deceive, because there really were problems ...
            Gorbachev's slogans ----more socialism, declared the struggle with something that interferes with socialism. Under the slogans of improvement --- destroyed the USSR.
            And as for deception, we can say that this is not the first time the bourgeois has deceived the proletariat. And they used the results of his actions. This has been happening since the time of the Great French Revolution. The bourgeoisie seizes control and becomes the "beneficiary"
            1. -1
              11 October 2019 10: 43
              Quote: Reptiloid
              This has been happening since the time of the French Revolution. The bourgeoisie takes control

              It interested the names of the French bourgeois of the times ...... Great French ..... that seized control from local proletarians, who are they?
              1. +2
                11 October 2019 10: 54
                Names, passwords, appearances? laughing Vladimir? I recently read the work of Peter Kropotkin. And I advise you. Now I'm reading William Blos. All about her, about the Great French.
                But ---- there are references that Karl Marx wrote this, I didn’t get to it laughing still. ... And your generation should know, they passed the exams. .....
                1. -1
                  11 October 2019 11: 03
                  Quote: Reptiloid
                  I recently read the work of Peter Kropotkin

                  Has it hit anarchism? Why bother with nonsense.
                  Quote: Reptiloid
                  And your generation should know

                  Our generation needs to think about the soul, it's time, while there is still little time, and you are all with your Karl Marx.
                  1. +3
                    11 October 2019 11: 35
                    The anarchism of Peter Kropotkin in no way detracts from his dignity as a scientist and author of a historical study of VFR and other topics.
                    And if you forget that you went to college, then it’s not clear why even read at least that? --- anyway, tomorrow you forget ..... Other local commentators remember a lot !!!! But you also never answered any of my questions to you about religion, although you position yourself. Also forgot, it turns out? So calm .....
                    1. 0
                      11 October 2019 11: 52
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      The anarchism of Peter Kropotkin in no way detracts from his dignity as a scientist and author of a historical study of VFR

                      Well, what are you saying nonsense, which scientist is from him, and what are his historical studies?
                      We are talking about vile liberalism, and you still remember the half-mad prince.
                      The article is called - Rampant liberalism? Why the empire fell apart.
                      And, more correctly, in my opinion of course - should be called - Why did the empire fall apart? Rampant liberalism.
                      For the same reason, the Union fell apart.
                      1. +2
                        11 October 2019 12: 26
                        And not only historical! Take an interest. You better get ready to answer on religion to another article ..... Than again to crap the USSR.
                        According to the article, everything just matches and comments on the topic. Previously, the same author had articles on the destruction of the USSR, on the economy, and people are always trying to understand how it was necessary, how they could save the country.
                      2. +1
                        11 October 2019 12: 41
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        and always people are still trying to understand how it was necessary, how they could save the country.

                        And how was it necessary?
                    2. +1
                      11 October 2019 16: 25
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      The anarchism of Peter Kropotkin in no way detracts from his dignity as a scientist and author of a historical study of VFR and other topics.

                      First, read his views on the post-revolutionary arrangement. And already knowing his methodical approach, they once again admired something. Although yes - "beautiful impulses of souls" is about him.
                      1. +1
                        11 October 2019 20: 22
                        RAE8 Prince Kropotkin was also a geographer, geomorphologist, and studied the tectonic structure of some rock regions of the Republic of Ingushetia. The book on VFR is respected and interest in it is still. Lenin spoke well of her, unlike Beaver tongue laughing .. (but there is nothing surprising that Beaver disagrees with Lenin on this issue, and in others.) ... What Bonch-Bruevich spoke about, also that in 1919 there was a meeting between Vladimir Ilyich and the prince anarchist and Lenin’s advice to publish this book. KROPOTKIN, being an anarchist and an opponent of money, was against the fee (his heirs, on the contrary, received the money later)
          3. +2
            11 October 2019 17: 08
            Quote: Svarog
            so that you can travel abroad.

            We lost a lot from freedom to travel, but what did we gain?
            1. 0
              12 October 2019 11: 57
              Western technology and equipment - today, not yesterday or the day before.
              1. 0
                12 October 2019 13: 37
                With the freedom to travel (privately, it's not about trade), it is doubtful that they have enriched themselves in technology. And more broadly, in all exchanges, many around us gained more from our new “freedom” than we did. On the shelves you can see. Freedom was better used by thieves than manufacturers.
        2. +4
          11 October 2019 10: 59
          Quote: bober1982
          all this - stigmatized the party nomenclature, the command and administrative system, rallied, yearned for sausage

          agree, it was for what. It is the isolation of power from the people that led to this. Now isn't it? Exactly.
          Quote: bober1982
          ..For that fought for it and ran.

          right. The collapse of the Union was essentially a bourgeois revolution. The main goal of perestroika was the transformation of the "bourgeois nomenclature" into the "nomenclature bourgeoisie", and therefore it was not a social revolution, but only a political revolution in which "power and property ... remained in the hands of the same class (or, more softly, the same elite) ) who owned them before the coup. Although it can be considered that this was also a counter-revolution, since a genuine revolution was called upon to liberate, in our case the structures of domination and oppression remained untouched, only a slight change in the scenery took place; moreover, the revolution must formulate new social alternatives. That did not happen. What’s important is that it didn’t end!
          During the revolution, it is not so difficult to overthrow the old regime, especially if by that time it had completely lost its legitimacy. The task of constructing a new post-revolutionary order looks incomparably more difficult in comparison with this. The struggle for power among the winners begins. Destruction is always easier than building. So everything is still to come.
          hi
          1. -1
            11 October 2019 11: 07
            Quote: Silvestr
            So everything is still to come.

            I agree.
            We are stepping on the same rake, or spinning like a squirrel in a wheel - the result will be known. And, my respect to you.
          2. +2
            11 October 2019 17: 35
            Quote: Silvestr
            “Power and property ... remained in the hands of the same class (or softer - the same elite) that held them before the coup

            Still, power and property did not remain the same, but changed fundamentally. Owls the government was responsible for the people; it is not necessary to reproach it for the imperfection of this function. And everyone used the property on a wide front.
            Quote: Silvestr
            in our case, the structures of domination and oppression remained intact, there was only a slight change in the scenery

            It would follow that there is not much difference between owls. socialism and today's capitalism, but the difference is fundamental.
            Quote: Silvestr
            the struggle for power among the winners begins.

            Do you mean "native" and imported?
            1. +1
              11 October 2019 18: 25
              Quote: Alexander Ra
              Still, power and property did not remain the same, but changed fundamentally.

              in favor of the apparatchiks, and then their protégé
              Quote: Alexander Ra
              It would follow that there is not much difference between owls. socialism and today's capitalism, but the difference is fundamental.

              for a simple person the difference is huge. but for the bons, no. They legally picked up everything
              Quote: Alexander Ra
              Do you mean "native" and imported?

              there is no difference between them
        3. 0
          11 October 2019 11: 18
          So the power of party nomenclature and collapsed. Dragged into national apartments. The collapse of the country is a merit not of the NSDAP, not of the British Tories and not of the US republicans, it is entirely on the conscience of the CPSU. So that she was branded a shame quite justifiably. Administrative command economy? She was good during the years of industrialization, war and post-war reconstruction, then she became a stone on the country's feet.
          1. +4
            11 October 2019 11: 23
            Quote: AS Ivanov.
            completely and completely on the conscience of the CPSU.

            just do not need dirt! My father-in-law became a communist at the front, had orders and personal thanks from Stalin, worked in the city trade department and imagine that he had nothing! Although the proposals were the sea. DO NOT bring honest hard workers and snickering tops on one plate.
            1. +1
              11 October 2019 11: 45
              The key word "under Stalin" At a later time, your father-in-law would have been forced to dance "yak pan kazhe", or leave his post, or even put a party card on the table. Sniffed top, which party did it lead? Exactly, and its ordinary members had no access to control levers. In my small homeland, the head of the village administration is a member of the United Russia. He did a lot for the village and the residents respect him, but the policy of the ruling party is not determined by him - too small a fry.
              1. +3
                11 October 2019 12: 04
                Quote: AS Ivanov.
                At a later time, your father-in-law would be forced to dance "yak pan kazhe"

                Just under Brezhnev, he Could become rich, using his official position, but did not become him. He finished work in commerce in 1986.
          2. +1
            11 October 2019 11: 28
            Quote: AS Ivanov.
            The collapse of the country

            Quote: AS Ivanov.
            entirely on the conscience of the CPSU

            The collapse of imperial Russia, on the conscience of Nicholas II - the collapse of the Bolsheviks, on the conscience of Khrushchev - the collapse of the CPSU, on the conscience of Gorbachev - the collapse of the Union, on the conscience of the CPSU.
            So what happens?
            This does not and cannot be, too primitive.
            1. 0
              11 October 2019 16: 40
              Quote: bober1982
              This does not and cannot be, too primitive.

              You, probably the most condemned booklet, "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" have read? If not, I advise. And it doesn't matter: fake is not fake, Jews are non-Jews. Important - WHEN is written and WHAT is written.
              1. 0
                11 October 2019 18: 44
                Quote: RAE8
                Important - WHEN it is written and WHAT is written.

                The gendarmes, of course, could not compose such a thing, which is also important, I read Nilus, a book on a bookshelf.
                1. 0
                  12 October 2019 08: 32
                  Yeah. Sverstan plan for a century and almost 100% implementation. It would be so for everyone. Well, from what was very interesting - that one of the goals was to discredit socialism. I repeat right away - I am Orthodox and, accordingly, not a supporter of the modern communist idea. But the way they achieved their goal with the help of Khrushchev socialism is impressive. And since the enemies fought against this, then we need to think and understand.
                  1. 0
                    12 October 2019 14: 05
                    Quote: RAE8
                    Sverstan plan for a century and almost 100% implementation. It would be so for everyone.

                    Previously, they started here, and the Renaissance, and Luther, and Robespierre, and Voltaire, and Darwin, and many and much more. Everything is clear, competent and consistent.
                    1. 0
                      13 October 2019 08: 45
                      Quote: bober1982
                      and the Renaissance, and Luther, and Robespierre

                      Here it’s not at all in the subject, and somehow I didn’t consider it from that angle. I know that the main goal of the enemy is Russia and Orthodoxy, so I tried to understand more local tendencies and forces. A little in the know that Prince Pozharsky was blackmailed by a feud (or civil war) to prevent him from accessing the throne. Therefore, in fact, the boyar democracy defeated and elected Romanov. In any case, the enemy uses social laws and principles to implement his plans. Ets. Sorry for the delay in responding, circumstances.
                      1. 0
                        14 October 2019 07: 20
                        Happy Feast of the Protection of the Holy Virgin!
                        Health, and all the best!
                      2. 0
                        14 October 2019 17: 33
                        Thank you You are the same with the Veil! There is absolute confidence in him.
            2. 0
              12 October 2019 12: 03
              Alas, the signs of a future collapse began to appear already in the early 80s - Gorbachev is such a historical switchman, if someone else had come the other way would have been the same.
      3. -1
        11 October 2019 15: 28
        The RSFSR and Russia do not need to be compared - the economies are completely different.
  13. +1
    11 October 2019 07: 53
    Quote: Oleg Egorov
    Why the empire fell apart

    The question in the title is posed incorrectly. Not why, but who?
    1. +2
      11 October 2019 11: 01
      Quote: Boris55
      Not why, but who?

      the role of the individual in history was previously studied in the social sciences at the vm institute. Then we were told, the person is not the main thing, the situation is important. And when PERSONALITY and SITUATION, then a revolution. Remember Yeltsin.
      1. 0
        11 October 2019 23: 55
        Yeltsin is your mutual friend in the 90s, as is Gorbachev in the 80s.
        1. +2
          12 October 2019 11: 08
          Quote: Vadim237
          Yeltsin is your mutual friend in the 90s, as is Gorbachev in the 80s.

          from which hangover such a conclusion?
          1. -1
            12 October 2019 12: 09
            How is it from - this generation of yours chose them and believed in them in the 80s and 90s, both of them had the Soviet best education in the world, they, like all yours, went to potatoes, went to sub-workers, were communists.
            1. +2
              12 October 2019 13: 26
              Quote: Vadim237
              it was your generation that chose them and believed in them in the 80s and 90s, both of them had the Soviet best education in the world, they, like all yours, went to potatoes, went to sub-workers, were communists.

              They forgot to add: our generation built the BAM, the Olimpiysky Sports Complex, Moscow, the Medeu Ice Rink, KamAZ, Naberezhnye Chelny, Tatarstan and much more. In the USSR, they collected waste paper, iron, but no one raised money for the treatment of children. You still live on the USSR stockpile. What's new in today's Russia?
            2. 0
              12 October 2019 13: 35
              Quote: Vadim237
              in the 80 and 90 both of them had the Soviet best education in the world, they, like all of yours, went to potatoes, went to sub-workers, were communists.

              And what is bad? For the same apples I paid 52 rubles. For potatoes ... Every day they took a bucket with them.
  14. +4
    11 October 2019 08: 21
    Offset! By the end of the day, there will be under two hundred comments, even the participants of the "one-day" will flock to get out of the cracks just for such discussions.

    It is true and comparable, but applies only to Russia. Such a country is the size, territorial-national structure, the difference in mentality, cultural and spiritual content and values, clan power and its inherent unsinkable corruption, the ever-evolving flag of mass revolution, the inability of the leaders and local authorities to reach out to everyone.

    In what other country in the world can such a soup be cooked in a cauldron? There is no such country! With such a set of age-old problems, contradictions, external and internal threats, with one foot in Europe and the other in Asia, with a constant desire to please everyone, donate, appease everyone, with dozens of political parties and ideological scoffing, with a sharp change in the vector of direction in politics, economics, education, reassessment of historical processes in the coming of power to the opposition - no. There are no more such countries and there were none!
    Yes, other historical empires fell apart too, but the Russian Empire and the USSR, unlike them, did not rob and profit from their vassals, but distributed, gifted and brought them to a new level of development!

    In our recent history, over the past thirty years, there have been so many falls and vacillations that another country hardly endured them. But we held out in spite of everything and got up. Either they have already forgotten how twenty years ago the salary was either not paid, or it was given in "galoshes". Statehood, economy and army were destroyed to the ground. I doubt that in such conditions, with the constantly increasing sanctions from the West since 1998, an economic miracle can be made in the style of Singapore and the leap that China made!

    And the conclusion, for myself, from the article was as follows - there is a substitution of a rigid, nation-wide system for the desire to please everyone, a decrease in the internal ideological level, a substitution of democracy and democracy for the permissiveness of local authorities, and the lack of effectiveness of anti-corruption measures.
    This bacchanalia needs to be stopped, the only question is when, how and who will decide it in practice, and not in words and election promises.
    1. +2
      11 October 2019 10: 46
      Quote: Vladimir61
      This bacchanalia needs to be stopped, the only question is when, how and who will decide it in practice, and not in words and election promises.

      the system is built in such a way that no one can do this, since elections are fictitious.
      As a critical mass accumulates, the elections will become completely uninteresting, since the people do not see the possibility of a peaceful solution to the issue of power. now there is a "revolutionary ripening of the masses." Even Lenin did not believe in the revolution the day before, and when it happened, he rushed to Russia. So it is with us. History repeats itself
    2. 0
      12 October 2019 11: 21
      Quote: Vladimir61
      I doubt that under such conditions, with Western sanctions constantly increasing with 1998, it is possible to make an economic miracle in the style of Singapore and the breakthrough made by China!

      We had a much cooler launch pad than in China.
  15. BAI
    +8
    11 October 2019 08: 37
    In principle, it is logical. When the state has successes, the people support the government. Putin's authority ascended to heaven after the victory in Chechnya. Now failure after failure, as a result - a decrease in the rating. Therefore, in Syria, a small victorious war was needed, but despite certain successes, it dragged on and is already working against Putin.
    In general, it is necessary to leave in time, and not under the pressure of accumulated errors.
    1. +4
      11 October 2019 10: 42
      Quote: BAI
      Therefore, in Syria, a small victorious war was needed

      V.K. Pleve: "To keep the revolution, we need a small victorious war."
      But Pleve was mistaken and a big defeat turned out.
      Quote: BAI
      ... but despite certain successes, she dragged on and is already working against Putin.

      But Crimea appeared and the rating went uphill again.
      The trend is obtained because ..
      Quote: BAI
      .... need to leave during
      not everyone understands. It seems a little more, a little more and things will get better. But in the finale ..
      Quote: BAI
      ... under the pressure of accumulated errors.

      and still have to go under the hoot. And only a negative memory remains, because the last is always remembered.
    2. -2
      11 October 2019 15: 35
      "Now failure after failure, as a consequence" - What are these failures? In Syria, a small victorious war was not only needed - it was necessary, since many Russian citizens left to fight for terrorists and gain experience in terrorist hostilities, with the subsequent return to their homeland.
      1. 0
        12 October 2019 14: 42
        Well, they returned from here to back. Are we feeling better?
  16. -3
    11 October 2019 09: 00
    We are witnessing the eternal Russian drama of the destruction of centralism, which holds giant spaces together, many peoples, languages, cultures, ensures the existence of Russia as a whole. The liberalism of Yeltsin, which dismembered the Soviet Union, after 1991 ... ”A. Prokhanov
    Clever girl! (by "Admiral Ushakov")
    But in general, both Nikolai and Mikhail did not show any “creeps” towards democracy. Both the one and the other wanted to rule alone ... but they could not.
    What does democracy mean, what did he drink?
  17. +2
    11 October 2019 09: 40
    In order to save the Empire, Nikolai the Bloody needed to somehow solve the peasant question. To solve the peasant question, it was necessary to very harshly compromise the interests of the ruling class. The Bolsheviks decided radically, drove the gentlemen out, kulaks, when the peasants began to water them, they evicted them, found new forms of organization of agricultural production. What could the tsarist government offer? Nothing, its limit was the Stolypin reform, which did not imply anything but highlighting part of the more successful peasants, and the rest could only die of hunger. And to make starve to death, or to leave for the colony / Siberia in a short period of time, of the order of one generation, no more than a few percent of peasants. Stolypin actually offered to do years for 20 what in Zap. Europe made for 200.

    So RI had no chance. Objectively. And then they giggled over the Bolsheviks with the whole world, watching with interest how they would rake it all. So when, to everyone’s surprise, they raked, then immediately Hitler drew ...
  18. -1
    11 October 2019 10: 17
    Comparison of incomparable things! The situation of the collapse of the Union should not be compared with the revolution of 1917, but with the turmoil of the late 16th and early 17th centuries, and there was a victory of the degenerate, selfish elite, which usurped power in their interests, so that some historians write about the Romanov period as internal colonization !!
    We will compare the 1917 revolution with the period 2020-2021, now we are conditionally in 1915-1916, and the author’s words are really relevant here laughing :
    The system was rigid, the system was secret, the system was anti-democratic. But the "edit" did not work. Hungry, and therefore angry peasants, “aggressive” neighbors, “untimely” technical revolution ... Yes, a lot of things. And everything went awry, and everything was peddling.
    1. -4
      11 October 2019 15: 37
      "The revolution of 1917 will be compared with the period of 2020-2021, now we are conditionally in 1915-1916, and here the words of the author are really relevant" - Wang of you is worthless.
  19. +4
    11 October 2019 10: 36
    Therefore, strangely enough, in Russia, the moral and reputational aspect of maintaining power is dominant. You can lose all the money, you can lose the battle, but you can not lose the reputation. No way.

    If the author were read in the Kremlin! After all, it is done in this way, analogies are appropriate. Although the material factor should not be completely denied. In the age of computer science, this is pointless. And reputation costs + lower living standards = explosive mixture. And the authorities stubbornly follow exactly this path. Or maybe they, all together, which power, are the enemies of the people?
  20. +2
    11 October 2019 11: 11
    Quote: Svarog
    Tops can’t, bottoms do not want .. Classic

    This explains the growth in sales of Viagra.
    But seriously, even in the Brezhnev stagnation there was no such fading in the economy. And this despite the fact that there was no insane spending on all kinds of "national projects". There is one more thing. Discontent clearly had and has the property of cumulativeness. It accumulates, and nothing seems to happen - but the quantity develops into quality, and with the seeming lack of reason, at some point an explosion occurs. Wouldn't miss it up there. Another abrupt change of power and its priorities could break Russia's back.
  21. -3
    11 October 2019 11: 21
    Quote: Wend
    Probably it’s not in power, but in Makarevich.


    You have indicated the right direction, but clarification is necessary, such as Makarevich is not against the authorities, they are against Russia, this is their credo, they earnestly pray to their god, the god of hatred of Russia.
    Any power will be bad for them, they will always criticize, decompose from the inside, pouring, dull poison into the fragile minds of young people, and at the same time earn good money, promoting their fellow tribesmen to any senior positions, supporting and protesting them, creating greenhouse conditions and developing whole vivariums, in places of power - mass media, government agencies, financial institutions.
    The financial sector is worth considering especially, it is through the power of money, they are implementing their program - again turn the tide of history, destroy even the rudimentary sprouts of stability and progress of our homeland.
    But they don’t forget about the plan. "B"- prepare alternate aerodromes over the hill, Israeli citizenship property in Western countries, financing of terrorist organizations (which alone is pumped by the banking structures of the Russian oligarchs of the National Battles in Ukraine), all of them, in their opinion, will guarantee them comfortable conditions in case of failure with a change of power or as they put it in the Guilty regime here in Russia.

    "Today we will reveal to you the true "face" (citizenship) of those who run the largest and fattest chunks of the domestic economy "

  22. -2
    11 October 2019 14: 37
    "But under Stalin there were victories." And not a dull sitting in a swamp, proclaimed by patriotic slogans. " Someone has a dull sitting in a swamp - and someone has a highway and a car flying at all speeds - all different.
  23. 0
    12 October 2019 12: 57
    Everything is absolutely true, excellent article!
    The very search for reasons, so difficult and with wrinkled foreheads, conclusively testifies - the top management cannot steer! Not so busy! That's all. This is fully true for all links in the management chain, except that for lower units there is a criterion for internal comparison.
    We take ten schools and look. Does everyone have the same problems? The cause of the problems is higher up the control circuit. Nine copes and the tenth is in trouble? Chase the director with a filthy broom! China did not have a niche, and now it is the leader of the planet's industry. This means that the top management level of the Chinese is good. We had a gigantic backlog, so what? What are our top management echelons? Eh, life ... "Loser people".
  24. +2
    12 October 2019 15: 53
    The main reason for the collapse of the USSR was that the country's top political leadership more and more lost touch with reality and lived in its own separate world.
  25. +1
    14 October 2019 07: 10
    Any achievements are amazed by the existing order. It is correct to say under Stalin there was order, hence his achievements and victories. Nicholas II was betrayed by his entourage, Gorbachev himself was a traitor, as he said in Turkey, "I was an opponent of communism, and did everything to destroy it."
  26. -1
    16 October 2019 11: 38
    There is only one reason for the collapse - the absence of a large, overwhelming majority of the population, an organized class of people who want to live in a given territory, do their own thing, give birth, raise and educate children in order to transfer their property and business to them, protected by laws from crime and banditry, and also from the arbitrariness of government officials and government officials. That is why they need the state and its laws, and they are ready to protect and support it. The Great Russian Revolution of 1917 interrupted this process and ended in a bloody Civil War, where those who hoped for a better life for themselves and their children won, but did not see ways to solve these problems, thinking that Soviet power was the basis on which to build your wealth. The USSR existed exactly as long as it was allotted by history. The Soviet state, for a number of reasons, among which the Great Patriotic War was the most destructive factor, alas, could not give people what they hoped for in 1917 and all the pre-war decades. To live in a permanent "collective farm", approximately, by 1990, none of the citizens of the USSR wanted to, and the state ceased to exist, despite all the great achievements and sacrifices of its citizens. Plus, of course, the betrayal of the top of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, cut off from the people.
    Now what? Repetition of building a tsarist empire is a terrible idea. A return to the Soviet regime is even worse. Western capitalism in its modern form is nothing more than power under the complete control of a handful of big capitalists who gave a huge mass of people handouts in the form of subsidies, loans or unemployment benefits, thereby creating a new class of idlers who also need a state so as not to lose your status. There are only 1 billion of them and there shouldn't be more. The Chinese way can only be for the Chinese. "And what about Russia?" Well, about the same as in the well-known advertisement for the election of one politician.

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