In India, said that the Russian Su-35 increased chances of winning the tender

The Indian media announced a significant increase in the chances of Russian Su-35 multi-role fighters to win a tender that involves the purchase of 114 fighters for the Indian Air Force. So, it is noted that part of this tender will remain with the French Rafale (while 36 units with deliveries of the first in 2020 have been contracted so far), but a significant part may go to Sukhoi.

In particular, it is stated that the Russian manufacturer made a proposal to localize the production of Su-35 fighters in India, linking a potential contract with the modernization of a large fleet of other fighters - Su-30MKI. In total, the Indian Air Force today has about 250 Su-30MKI. The Indian media say that such a “two-phase” contract will provide an opportunity to save.

It is noted that the Su-35 stands out for its super-maneuverability, the ability to use various weapons, including the latest air-to-air missiles, "but it’s too expensive to maintain." Indian experts say that if Russia goes to the localization of Su-35 production in India and at the same time modernizes the ten Su-30MKIs, then in this format the future costs of servicing Su-35 can be compensated by the current savings.

Meanwhile, the modernization of the 30 “Drying” in India means “the use of Su-35 technologies”: the use of Irbis-E radar, the installation of AL-41F engines, and integration with new electronic warfare systems.

At the same time, experts note that if the Indian authorities continue to ponder the purchase of fighters in small batches from different countries: France, Russia, the USA, Sweden (by the way, the Swedes themselves left the tender a few weeks ago), then this will become a “logistic nightmare for the Air Force ".

Comments

[Victor_B]

Oh, a very picky bride!
Bought for bad money Rafali. For the same money, 1,5–2 times more would get Sushk or MIGs.
There is no visible global problem for spoiling the relations with Russia in half.
No, "diversification" is very fashionable nowadays.
The Germans out there are caring Americans who are already diversifying from Russian gas ...

[Ka-52]

Bought for bad money Rafali. For the same money, 1,5–2 times more would get Sushk or MIGs.

Hindus are not such fools as you like to represent them (it’s not about you personally, but about your community of sofa experts). And under a contract with Dassault Aviation, half of these funds should be reinvested in the Indian economy.

[Victor_B]

Quote: Ka-52

And under a contract with Dassault Aviation, half of these funds should be reinvested in the Indian economy.

Like, our reinvested nothing?
Aha
Both Indians and aircraft can now do without us.
Only worse. Probably.

[Ka-52]

Like, our reinvested nothing?
Aha
And Indians and aircraft can now do without us

do not confuse horseradish with a finger. License sales, production localization, joint development and joint production, reinvestment are all different things. And you bring them together under some kind of pseudo-patriotic slogan.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Ka-52

reinvestments are all different things.

That is, you want to say that under the contract the French were supposed to return half of the proceeds from the contract to the Indians as "reinvestments"? And this is not a co-production. So? And then what? They pledged to buy shares of Indian firms on the stock exchange? Or buy Indian goods with this money? Or maybe to replenish the assets of Indian banks with this money? To build industrial property in India with this money? Tell me, please.

[Ka-52]

were half of the proceeds from the contract returned to the Indians as a "reinvestment"?

what you wrote is called "rollback", not reinvestment

Have they pledged to buy shares of Indian firms on the stock exchange? Or buy Indian goods with this money? Or maybe replenish the assets of Indian banks with this money?

The concept of reinvestment includes various investment options - from the purchase of government bonds to investments in the construction (modernization) of industrial facilities. In this case, these are most likely defense industry facilities. Usually, such details are not the subject of the contract, but are signed by subsequent agreements

[abc_alex]

Quote: Ka-52

The concept of reinvestment includes various investment options - from the purchase of government bonds to investments in the construction (modernization) of industrial facilities. In this case, these are most likely defense industry facilities. Usually, such details are not the subject of the contract, but are signed by subsequent agreements

That is, you do not know and there is no evidence of your words, at least in open sources.
In this case, I apologize, but let me not believe you. The obligations of the French so far are known only in the amount of joint production, and then the French actually refused these obligations. They did not comply with the direct terms of the contract, which disgraced them completely and caused displeasure of the Indians. Therefore, it’s ridiculous to talk about some indirect obligations outside the contract in general,

[Kurare]

Quote: Ka-52

License sales, production localization, joint development and joint production, reinvestment are all different things.

Hindus just complain that the French are not going to transfer technology to them. Even the screwdriver assembly was not implemented either. The French promise a lot in words, but when it comes to documentary evidence, everything is quickly forgotten. I am writing this because I know from my own experience.

[Ka-52]

I am writing this because I know from my own experience.

Have you signed contracts with Dassault Aviation? Very interesting.

[Kurare]

Do not exaggerate. I just worked with French companies.

[Herman 4223]

But what prevents the Indians from concluding the same agreement with other countries? I do not think that our government would refuse to invest in the economy of India. We also have cheaper technology.

[cormorant]

First, they pay a full fee under a contract with Dassault Aviation, and then the French will build some Peugeot plant for them and again they will skim the cream from the sold products, the investment is the same.

[nks]

PSA is not a party to the offset agreement. Investments must come from the aerospace industry of India. Dassault factory in India already built - google Dassault Reliance Aerospace

[Hagalaz]

Yes, these Indians are a heavy client. Such cool modernization requirements. The expression comes to mind about the desire to "shove not shoved" Take one glider, insert the filling from the other, and put the engines from the third! But! I cannot say categorically, but in my opinion this is a rather serious alteration of the design documentation and structural elements. Will it cost a pretty penny and will it be profitable?

[Spambox]

No, it won’t cost a pretty penny, the glider is essentially the same, the space under the fairing for the Su 30 radar is the same as the 35, they will change avionics, push new engines and get a fleet of modern aircraft, as I understand it, there are only restrictions on the glider’s resource there to interfere

[Hagalaz]

The devil, as usual, is in the details. And the weight and size characteristics of products are only a small part of the technological nuances. I (as a person associated with some equipment for these aircraft) is not at all sure about the unification of the fastening elements of these radars to the supporting structures of the airframe. Hence the doubts. I don't know (and you?) Whether the task was set when designing the Irbis to unify it with the Bars. Structurally, these are different products.
The same story with the engines. It is not known whether various kinds of seats coincide or not, whether such interchange was envisaged.
Try to insert an engine from one car into another. Even with suitable dimensions, this will not work without modifications. (We do not consider the classic Lada.)

[Herman 4223]

AL-41 engines seem to be larger in diameter 31x. So just shove it will not work.

[Ka-52]

AL-41 engines seem to be larger in diameter 31x. So just shove it will not work.

with a fig? On the contrary, 41 is almost the same in length (4990 against 4945), and even smaller in diameter - 1180 mm against 1277 mm for the 31st

[Herman 4223]

Well, I can’t argue on the contrary, but I remember that it’s different.

[Ka-52]

the modernization of the 30th “Drying” in India means “the use of Su-35 technologies”: the use of the Irbis-E radar, the installation of AL-41F engines,

they do not need AL-41F1, AL-31F M2 or M3 is quite enough. Thrust +/- 15k, resource 3000 - only 1000h less than the 41st. Fuel consumption is quite acceptable. Well, there is no plasma, well, the t / m ratio is slightly worse, by one. But it’s cheaper for sure and there will be no export obstacles

[donavi49]

Well, if you don’t like it, then you can look for other customers. It seems the same Indonesia, which 50% of the amount of palm oil - but after the ban in the EU, will pay with spices (moreover, like garlic cloves), is the client easier?

There were customers who pay 100% currency. But there are few of them. Of the complex, only Algeria (already all) and Egypt (while the Saudi loot was now more difficult with contracts), and partly Iraq, but there are mostly armored vehicles + infantry equipment + some helicopters and armor, and again Iraq no longer plans buy a lot, because the war is over.

India is the last customer to pay 1-2-3-4 billion dollars, just in cash. And ready to purchase a wide range of products.

[lucul]

India is the last customer who can shell out 1-2-3-4 billion dollars, just in cash.

The point of scattering technology with a budget surplus? )))

[donavi49]

Budget surplus from the air. There Putin himself regularly reminds of the importance of military-technical cooperation and the growth of the proceeds of arms received for export.

Again, if there is no export, it is not only no money, but there is still no loading to the factory. Or do you want the situation as with NAZ to become commonplace for all enterprises (here they performed the crystal-clear example of state defense orders, but failed to export, Algeria postponed the deal indefinitely due to known events with a change of government = now dismissals and a simple plant). And given the reduced demand for SSJ kits, the situation is even more complicated. Future sweets like Okhotnik, participation in MS-21 and Tu-160М = these are future years, and GOZ will be closed under the Christmas tree, and it will not involve all the shops of the plant. That is, without an airplane on the line, the NAZ simply loses its competence and will have to reduce the workshops not involved in cooperation.

If there was an order for Su-34 for which India / Algeria anyone else - they would have reached for delicious food and the blow would not be so strong

[lucul]

If there was an order for a Su-34 for which India / Algeria anyone else - they would have reached for delicious food and the blow was not so strong wink

I repeat - it makes no sense to sell their technology (weapons), when even rural households bring more revenue than the sale of weapons.
This is only if the sale is for the sake of sale (this is if a shopkeeper sits inside) ....

[donavi49]

But agricultural - does not create particularly high-tech jobs. Quite limited progress is moving forward in all sorts of important sectors.

Plus, in the future it will create fewer jobs in general (again, unmanned harvesters are already economically viable in countries with high salaries, after 25-30 years and in the countries of the 3 world, it will be more profitable to buy an unmanned combine harvester than any thread of a bowl of pottage in a day).

Even with the current high export load + still participating in cooperation on the global quota (for Watermelon), there will be more and more problem plants as the bulk of the state defense order comes out. Again, let me cite:
UAC faces a difficult choice: from an economic point of view, about half of the aircraft plants should be closedbut for socio-political reasons this will be hindered by local authorities and the Kremlin, says Konstantin Makienko, an expert at the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. But it’s better to close them now, if possible reprofiling for the production of aircraft units, than to waste the next subsidies, the expert believes.

“Given the expected To reduce the state defense order, various options for the development of the industrial model of the UAC as a whole and the place of each enterprise in this model, including NAZ, are being developed»

[lucul]

But agricultural - does not create particularly high-tech jobs. Progress in all important sectors is rather limitedly moving forward.

The sale of weapons is a technology transfer almost free.
Then we will spend three times more on R&D of new weapons than we will gain from the sale.

[Ka-52]

The sale of weapons is a technology transfer almost free.
Then we will spend three times more on R&D of new weapons than we will gain from the sale.

some dense reasoning about the sale of weapons, the economy of production, etc. You at least take a little interest in what the expediency of the deals themselves and the economics of enterprises producing products are.

[Lesorub]

The Indian media announced a significant increase in the chances of Russian Su-35 multi-role fighters to win a tender that involves the purchase of 114 fighters for the Indian Air Force

Let's see what the officials say, as far as I remember, the Indians were choosing between light fighters (F 21, MiG 35, etc.), but if they choose the Su 35, it's only better for us.

[Mountain shooter]

What a madness! Each type of aircraft has its own service, stands, spare parts warehouses, trained personnel! Armament, finally. Side spending with such a "hodgepodge" will increase many times. Not to mention the crooked handles of Indian "modernizers"

[Kurare]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

What a madness!

Yes, I think this chatter! In Russia, the Su-30SM is now being created, where unification with the Su-35 will be implemented in so many components, for example. engines, radar, etc. All the same, the Su-35 is single, and the Indians just want a spark.

[Victoria-V]

How much can you transfer from empty to empty in the purchase of fighters for India. The Indian media said - in which exactly? This topic requires discussion by competent experts.

[Sergei 777]

Is Su 35 a bidder?

[Livonetc]

They have seven Fridays a week.
Therefore, the list of participants is "rubber".
And the dates are sliding.
Bollywood is at the heart of every Indian and this is a determining factor.

[nks]

where do they come from? The application with the Su-35 KLA did not file

[usr01]

Hindus continue to muddle and bargain ...

[kit88]

VO sections: News, Opinions, Analytics, Dances with a tambourine ...

[Pavel57]

A bunch of Su-30-Su-35 is optimal. Although the MiG-35 would fit perfectly.

[Nitarius]

Well, damn it and traders))) they bite themselves for the ass)))

[parkello]

my lips are open ..right not a lip .a grader ... well, or a bulldozer)) but do not choke?))

[egor1712]

and it is not necessary. Such a "cow you need yourself."

[-ш-]

they have there that day is not Bollywood

[Eug]

It is realistic to work out the modernization of the Su-30 in the interests of the Russian Air Force on the basis of unification with the Su-35 for the money from the Indian contract. You still need to do this, it’s better for the money of a foreign customer.

[nks]

Hmm, despite the fact that the su-35 is not involved in the tender. 36 rafals contracted out of tender, the first has already been transferred to India, and not at all in 2020

[Lexus]

It would be nice for us and very practical for the Indians.

[Lapunevsky]

A month later they will say the opposite. And so 110 times per year

[Aviationism]

“It is noted that the Su-35 stands out for its super maneuverability”

Meanwhile, the MiG RSK sucks a finger by participating in a tender with the MiG-35 without proven over-maneuverability.

Enemies themselves!