Patents of the Schmeisser brothers. Construction MP-18

64

If a bear steps on your ear ...


The anniversary of the outstanding designer, citizen and patriot of the Fatherland - Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov is approaching. It so happened that during the development of the production of his machine at the Izhevsk Motor Plant, and then at the Izhmash in Izhevsk, there were German technical specialists in small arms and motorcycle production. This fact, as well as the external similarities of the Kalashnikov assault rifle and the StG-44 assault rifle of the German designer Hugo Schmeisser, give rise to various versions of his involvement in the development of the best model of modern small arms, ranging from a modest “gave advice” to allegations of absolute plagiarism or even direct development AK-47. The crown of the absurdity around the alleged German involvement in the development of the machine was the insulting image of a German rifle explosion-scheme on the bas-relief of the Kalashnikov monument in Moscow.





Obviously, all this hype comes from the pathological haters of Russia and clearly schizoid personalities, obsessed with the idea of ​​their own greatness in the media space. At the same time, Schmeisser is credited with such fantastic merits in the development of small arms, which even he, not without ambitiousness, did not suspect.

In order to understand the true merits of Schmeisser in the development of small arms and evaluate its design level, you need to understand several areas, therefore, before looking at the published patents of Hugo and Hans Schmeisser, you need to learn the following consideration, without which any estimates of the gloomy Teutonic geniuses are not will make no sense.

If a bear has stepped on a person’s ear, then he should not discuss Alfred Schnittke’s innovative ideas in his first symphony. Weapon - This is not just a set of performance characteristics, the name of the designer and the year of adoption. For this assessment, knowledge in the field of ballistics, the fundamentals of technology and production of mechanical engineering, special sections of mechanical engineering (principles of automation, methods of locking the barrel, etc.), the historical period of the creation of the sample, and general laws of development are necessary. Failure to comply with this condition will speak about the elementary amateurism of the authors of such, for example, pearls:
... in 1949, Soviet stamping could not ensure the quality of the Kalashnikov assault rifles


or
Schmeisser created something epoch-making - a short quick-firing carbine ...
.

Construction MP-18


Hugo Schmeisser is credited with two models: the MP-18 submachine gun and the StG-44 assault rifle. They both appeared at the end of two world wars, marked certain milestones in stories and both for a long time were not taken seriously until, in the first case, the war in Latin America with the use of German submachine guns, and then the Kalashnikov assault rifle in Vietnam announced the approval of a new class in small arms.

So MP-18. The first thing to start with is to refute the myth that the submachine gun was developed on the instructions of the German General Staff as an offensive weapon for the German assault squads and was supposedly even used by them in one of the offensive operations. No one saw the document signed by Ludendorf or Hindenburg, approving the terms of reference for the development of a submachine gun as a weapon for assault groups, and although this is not proof that it does not exist, there are many facts indirectly confirming that the first submachine guns were designed as defensive weapon. This is primarily the location of the store, reducing the shooter's profile when firing from a trench - on the side of the MP-18 or on top of the Beretta Model 1918.

Initially, the MP-18 service staff included two fighters, one of whom was an ammunition carrier. It is somehow doubtful that a warrior was involved in the assault operation, whose main duty was to equip the stores and deliver them to a soldier armed with an automatic machine and in constant motion.

The second is the knowledge of the tactics of warfare prevailing in the WWII. I will not dwell on it, but it was she who influenced the emergence of a new class of weapons - a light machine gun, in the development of the idea of ​​which later automatic machines for pistol and intermediate cartridges appeared. Schmeisser in the round dance of these events takes the same place as Fedorov, Revelli or Shosh, whose first light machine gun is called only half-wits. If only because the Shosh machine gun, although it was terribly unreliable, it appeared on time and played its role. The answer (or a parallel solution) to the creation of the Shosh machine gun was the creation of a light machine gun for a pistol cartridge, which went through its short evolution: from a two-barreled version of the Villar Perosa, which moved into the trenches and was transformed to the usual version in the form of an automatic self-shooting rifle.

The appearance of automatic weapons under the pistol cartridge is a natural result of technical evolution, and not a momentary brilliant insight, as people who do not know the laws of development like to imagine. A revolution in development can only be a scientific discovery in an adjacent field, for example, the invention of smokeless powder and the development of a unitary cartridge on its basis, which made it possible to create an automatic self-loading, and then self-shooting weapon. As a rule, at this stage of invention and innovation grow like mushrooms, a lot of inventors, developers, entrepreneurs try to stake out their plots by filing patent applications, launch raw products on the market, trying to chop off their piece, strangle competitors, engage in industrial espionage, plagiarism. In other words, there is the usual struggle for existence through the selection of the stronger and more impudent, called "natural" by Sir Charles Darwin.

At the stage of evolution, the transformation of prototypes takes place. For submachine guns, the prototypes were pistols with the possibility of automatic shooting and the use of hard holsters instead of a stock and self-loading carbines under a pistol cartridge. Some of this was also produced at the factory of Theodore Bergman, where their designer worked - Louis, the father of brothers and sisters Schmeisser.

Patents of the Schmeisser brothers. Construction MP-18





These samples did not have any relation to military affairs, but were intended mainly for sport and hunting.

We now turn directly to the MP-18 design, which uses 319035 and 334450 patents, attributed to Schmeisser, and Theodor Bergmann as the applicant.



The 319035 patent claim claims two features. The first concerns the shutter device, in which the movable striker is located and in which the reciprocating spring abuts. The second is the method of locking the shutter in the extreme rear position by engaging the shutter handle over the cutout in the receiver. There is clearly visible prototype - a typical window or door valve. From the point of view of genius, nothing is observed so as not to bypass this patent with little blood.



Briefly about patents per se


Briefly about patents in general. The value of a patent is determined by how difficult and expensive it is to get around it, and you can always get around it. Everything is decided by the market, if there is a designer who offers a similar solution, for example, to hook the handle not on the cutout in the receiver, but on the cutout on the forend, then you yourself understand the price of such a patent. Another thing, for example, is the hole at the end of the needle in the sewing machine or on the blade of the Spiderco knife. No matter how you strain, it will turn out to be more difficult and not more technological, it’s easier to pay the author.

The 334450 patent describes a method for locking a hinged shutter box with a latch, for the operation of which the force of the reciprocating spring is used. This is an invention from the category of a very high category. One part is used to perform three functions. Those familiar with TRIZ will understand me right away. A similar solution is used in the Kalashnikov assault rifle, the difference is that it locks the lid of the receiver, and Schmeisser has the entire box rotating on a hinge.



But. Using the spring force for three functions is wonderful, but the detailed drawing in the patent is already superfluous. Therefore, when Bergmann did not allow Schmeisser to produce MP-18, Schmeisser, to circumvent the limitations of his own patent (if he really was the author), simply changed the spring shape and latch assembly in MP-28.

Of course, the sensitive issue of the MP-18 or Beretta M1918 championships cannot be avoided. I will say right away: it does not make sense. What moment will denote the championship? Date of adoption? But two samples, adopted with a difference of several months, speak only of the agility of staff workers, who completed documents a little faster. The date of filing of patent applications for individual nodes used in the final product? In this case, the Italian wins, as it uses solutions patented in 1915.

To sum up


The appearance of submachine guns is a natural round of evolution in technogenesis. Designed as a defensive trench, the weapon went its own way as a policeman, as an assault, and as a personal compact, such as the MP-40. The role of Hugo Schmeisser (as a designer) in creating one of the first samples is well deserved. On the whole, successful simplicity of development guaranteed victory in the competition and its adoption in the German army.

Such an achievement turned the head of the young inventor. Glory loomed on the horizon Ilona Mask Isaac Merrit Singer. Leaving Bergman, creating his own production, patenting his designs, crushing their competitors with them and living happily in the glory of the brilliant inventor. Is this not a desired goal, as the Danish prince said. In fact, everything turned out to be much more complicated. Attempts to set up their own company, Industriewerk Auhammer Koch und Co., to manage the rights of patents of Hugo and Hans Schmeisser, led to the fact that it worked at a loss and went into actual bankruptcy, threatening to deprive the brothers of the rights to all their patents. I had to create a new one, Gebrüder Schmeisser, and transfer the rights to it.

New developments did not find buyers, simply did not represent any commercial interest or did not bring the expected profits. The case ended with a raider seizure of Karl Gottlieb Hanel's firm after his death. His young son, not having the ability to either technical creativity or administrative affairs to manage the enterprise, went on about the two brothers, giving them a third of the shares in the enterprise of his father. In this case, the brothers recouped for work at Bergman to the fullest. In addition to official salaries, they began to receive interest for the use of their inventions, the sizes of which they themselves determined, so the income of the brothers was many times higher than the income of the owners - the Hanel family.
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  1. +13
    7 October 2019 04: 38
    Obviously, all this hype comes from the pathological haters of Russia and clearly schizoid personalities, obsessed with the idea of ​​their own greatness in the media space.

    Of course ... they blame everything that was invented by Russian nuggets ... I constantly hear and read attacks on Kalashnikov ... they constantly lie and slander his immortal work AK-47.
    But even I am not a specialist in the field of weapons, I see significant differences between the STG-44 and AK-47.
    1. +2
      7 October 2019 05: 29
      Mikhail Kalashnikov, when he received the STG-44 for review, he was only convinced that the technical solutions he adopted were more effective and practical. There was literally NOTHING to copy. And then only perfected its development and improved production technology. hi
      1. +7
        7 October 2019 11: 19
        I saw an interview with Mikhail Timofeevich, where he said that the design of the parts is such as to eliminate the ambiguity of the joints. And in this, AK has 100% success, it is enough to make a partial disassembly a couple of times to understand the mechanism. Even such an initial shutter as installing the shutter in the bolt frame and then installing the frame in the receiver takes about a couple of seconds. And then, with my eyes closed, everything turns out well.
    2. +2
      7 October 2019 06: 23
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      But even I am not a specialist in the field of weapons, I see significant differences between the STG-44 and AK-47.
      They also say that he did not develop anything from the rifleman to AK ... topwar.ru/30122-proba-stvola.html
    3. +6
      7 October 2019 08: 41
      I also meet constantly. The apologists for "copy of German" stumble over a simple question. About locking the shutter. Immediately start bleating about stamping.
    4. +4
      7 October 2019 08: 45
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      Of course ... they blame everything that was invented by Russian nuggets ... I constantly hear and read attacks on Kalashnikov ... they constantly lie and slander his immortal work AK-47.

      It means that this AK-47 is a very good "machine", if the "all progressive world" hates it and tries to prove the opposite, but life decreed otherwise and brought Kalashnikov first in the line of automatic small arms of the 20th century. As the people say, "Walk through the bazaar and find the best one."
    5. +4
      7 October 2019 08: 58
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      But even I am not a specialist in the field of weapons, I see significant differences between the STG-44 and AK-47.

      Well, for our democrats and the creative intelligentsia, they are all the same, that Schmeisser, that Bergman, that Kalashnikov for them, if only our Soviet was worse, for them even "German fat" is better than our "bacon".
    6. +3
      7 October 2019 21: 08
      Oh, Alexei, you should have seen and heard the "rantings" of the former truth-lover from "600 seconds" -nevzorov (I don't want to write his last name with a capital letter-dermo, I don't deserve this), that Kalashnikov just copied everything. His (Nevzorov's) main argument, honestly I, just like you, are not an expert, but "depended" on such "Nevzorov's insight" literally: Kalashnikov, did not receive a patent and profit from his "product" - so this is not his development ... . What is eh?
      1. -4
        8 October 2019 00: 25
        You are misinterpreting, Petrograd, Nevzorov told the truth, which is very difficult for many to reach with their minds. 1. AK is not an independent invention, it is an aggregate. 2. Nevzorov did not detract from the merits of the designer, but simply said that Kalashnikov himself realized that he had not invented anything fundamentally revolutionary, but created a very successful product based on the decisions of other authors. 3. Hugo Schmeiser has nothing to do with the creation of AK. 4. STG44 also has nothing to do with AK.
        1. +3
          8 October 2019 00: 45
          Quote: andrey_liss
          You are misinterpreting, Petrograd, Nevzorov told the truth, which is very difficult for many to reach with their minds. 1. AK is not an independent invention, it is an aggregate. 2. Nevzorov did not detract from the merits of the designer, but simply said that Kalashnikov himself realized that he had not invented anything fundamentally revolutionary, but created a very successful product based on the decisions of other authors. 3. Hugo Schmeiser has nothing to do with the creation of AK. 4. STG44 also has nothing to do with AK.

          Boy, you yourself have responded to your claims and puberty urges, however, nevzorov is a very "exciting political-bad" example will come in handy, grease the pen so that it does not rub.

          1. AK is not an independent invention, it is an aggregate. - Do you know what a unit is ...? Explain to me what in your comment means aggregate ...
          2.2. Nevzorov did not detract from the merits of the designer, but merely said that Kalashnikov himself realized that he had not invented anything fundamentally revolutionary, but created a very successful product based on the decisions of other authors. - Well, nevzorov, a secret and bald specialist and a historian, you were next to me, also "realized" the principles of the AK and alloys for its creation, or did you come to catch the flies, senor?

          3. Hugo Schmeiser has nothing to do with the creation of AK. Uhhh well, at least in this Hugo will calm down and will not spin in the coffin.
          4. STG44 also has nothing to do with AK.- Thank you, I already knew about this, this is your conclusion.
          1. -4
            9 October 2019 20: 15
            Many dear, your nonsense amused me very much. Lying to a person who, for any reason, is unpleasant to you, betrays a person of a near mind in you. And yes, if you like to engage in useless business for self-satisfaction, it does not matter in which area, then you do not need to equate others on your own. The definition of the word aggregate in the dictionary will be found.
            1. +2
              9 October 2019 23: 03
              Quote: andrey_liss
              Many dear, your nonsense amused me very much. Lying to a person who, for any reason, is unpleasant to you, betrays a person of a near mind in you.

              By man, I mean, you mean "nevzorova"- Yes, it’s not pleasant, and moreover I consider him a starry old junk. At one time, with a lack of information, he earned as a journalist on hot news and gossip. Now his time has run out and is nonsense-PR. His remarks about Kalashnikov and his assault rifle are misunderstood. His "nevzorova" opinion about the St. George ribbon and those who wear it, considers rams with a rag (in his interview it is, if not removed) - still lower the opinion about him. Yes, after these verbal excrement, the minimum is not pleasant, and so the cockroach, which is unbecoming, is not a pity to slap with a slipper.

              Quote: andrey_liss
              don't equate others on your own

              For you with your favorite "nevzorov" ??? Oh well....

              Quote: andrey_liss
              The definition of the word aggregate in the dictionary will be found.
              Wise guy you ours, maybe in the encyclopedia, but not in the dictionary? In dictionaries, usually other information is given.
              For the accuracy and literacy, I can’t guarantee it, I studied for a long time:
              1.Connecting several different types of machines, devices, etc. into one unit to work in a complex.
              2. an enlarged unit of a machine (complex of machines) that performs a certain function and has complete interchangeability — for example, an engine or a gearbox of a car, pumps and gearboxes used in different machines.
              3. This term is also found in geology-accumulations of one or more minerals, forming a rock or ore and varying in composition - simple and complex, consisting of several minerals.
              andrey_liss
              -What have small arms got to do with it, can you clearly answer? It would be fine if there was a twin or three AK united into one whole, with a big stretch it could still be called an "aggregate".
              You before puffing ......
              1. -1
                12 October 2019 12: 04
                Thick, very thick, solid insults. Nothing to say on the merits?
                To get started, open this.
                1. +1
                  12 October 2019 19: 57
                  Quote: andrey_liss
                  Nothing to say on the merits?

                  To which, to answer something, what question was asked or don’t remember your comments, re-read if you forgot.
                  Quote: andrey_liss
                  Thick, very thick, solid insults.

                  Resentment ??? Where? Just a statement of the fact that the nevzorov horse farmer said about Kalashnikov, and what he said about the people with the St. George's ribbon. For him, Kalashnikov is an uneducated mediocrity, who copied someone else's development, people wearing the St.George ribbon-rams, these are his words, for this I consider him a scoundrel, a kind of know-it-all creepy. What is thick, what is more subtly visible to you, apparently there is experience in assessing the diameter, length and depth of an "incoming-outgoing object".

                  Quote: andrey_liss
                  To get started, open this.

                  From the beginning, some kind of picture, then verbal diarrhea, then
                  open it
                  where there is a causal relationship, at least put a dot at the end of the sentence or the picture below.
                  This is what to open ... Discover for yourself what you want and where you want.
                  1. -1
                    15 October 2019 22: 49
                    Lies, continuous lies, from beginning to end, but the worst part is that they themselves have already believed in it.
    7. 0
      9 October 2019 18: 29
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      But even I am not a specialist in the field of weapons, I see significant differences between the STG-44 and AK-47.

      Yes, the only very similar part in both machines is a gas piston.
      TyTruba is full of rollers with both assault rifles, with their dismantling and even shooting. And I have got the impressionthat StG is just a combination of the trigger from the PPSh, the gas outlet is from the SVD, the shutter is from the PTRS. PTRS was a rework for the large caliber of Simonov’s automatic rifle, with locking the skew of the bolt (for Degtyartki with special protrusions, for PPSh - a free bolt). After all, Schmeisser had never before made weapons with locking warp. And in the 42nd, the Germans had many samples of Soviet weapons.
  2. +2
    7 October 2019 05: 58
    That is, the whole article is aimed at proving that Schmeiser is lack of a hole. What for?
    1. +1
      8 October 2019 00: 09
      You misunderstood! The meaning of the article is that it is not enough to be a genius, you still have to be born at that time and live in that country! But Schmeisser was ahead of time! Just like Thompson!
  3. +7
    7 October 2019 07: 01
    Strangeness in the article. If the MP-18 is considered, then this is a submachine gun under a pistol cartridge. Here rather Degtyarev, Shpagin and Sudaev. And if Kalashnikov was mentioned, then this is an intermediate cartridge and Sturmgever. Some kind of dissonance in the article. request
    1. +1
      7 October 2019 08: 49
      Quote: Leopold
      Strangeness in the article. If the MP-18 is considered, then this is a submachine gun under a pistol cartridge.

      Now, probably, even schoolchildren know the difference between rifle, intermediate and pistol cartridges, and what weapons are made for them.
    2. +16
      7 October 2019 09: 10
      Quote: Leopold
      Strangeness in the article. If the MP-18 is considered, then this is a submachine gun under a pistol cartridge. Here rather Degtyarev, Shpagin and Sudaev. And if Kalashnikov was mentioned, then this is an intermediate cartridge and Sturmgever. Some kind of dissonance in the article


      Dear readers! The original text and title of my article was changed by the VO editor without my consent and posted here, so there is a dissonance!
      In this regard, I will not post the second, part, as there will be even more dissonance.
      Take it for granted.
      1. +3
        7 October 2019 11: 41
        hi Dear Author Andrei Kulikov, Thank you for the Interesting Topic and Actual Article on the eve of the 100th anniversary of the birth of our Outstanding Weapon Designer!
        From the first lines, of course, I recognized your style and therefore the absence of the Author's signature under the Article surprised me. But now it’s clear why it happened.
        Some misprints, absurdities and oddities introduced (by someone, whether by the editor, or by the Author himself), in principle, do not confuse me personally with the patalyk, since the general direction of the Author's Thought, life facts, curious cases and instructive stories set forth the concept and, of course, the visual "language of technology" - drawings and diagrams! I always try to highlight the rational grain-Essence from any information, regardless of any "roughness" and discordant "inconsistencies"!
        Therefore, Andrey, I am tormented by cruel Curiosity - where is it now possible to read the second part of your Article - maybe, after all, albeit with inconsistent "dissonances", no matter what, you will publish for grateful readers VO-in Memory of Mikhail Timofeevich? ?! winked
        1. +3
          8 October 2019 00: 10
          Therefore, Andrey, I am tormented by cruel Curiosity - where is it now possible to read the second part of your Article - maybe, after all, albeit with inconsistent "dissonances", no matter what, you will publish for grateful readers VO-in Memory of Mikhail Timofeevich? ?! winked

          I sincerely join you !!! hi
      2. +2
        8 October 2019 00: 16
        Quote: bunta
        bunta (Andrey) Today, 09:10

        Very sorry! The article is a very interesting continuation ... I wanted to ... I would like to put "would", but I will write HOPE!
  4. +4
    7 October 2019 08: 57
    hi .... directly to the design of MP-18, which uses patents 319035 and 334450, the authorship of which is attributed to Schmeisser, and the applicant is Theodor Bergmann
    .... Designed by Hugo Schmeisser, it went into operation in 1918 and around 5000 were built. He fired a 9 x 19 parabellum cartridge from the 32nd drum magazine (Trommel magazine TM), originally designed for the long Luger 08 pistol. Temp firing was about 450 rounds per minute. TM was loaded after winding the tape spring using the winding handle, and then using a special loading tool. Since the TM was originally designed to fit into the handle of the Luger pistol, there was a risk that the TM could be too pressed into the shorter MP18 magazine, so a special collar .... hi
    1. +2
      7 October 2019 19: 38
      Hello my friend hi , You are as always on the level!
      I've wanted to try "all my life" how they behave when shooting cars with a side-mounted store, but it didn't work out. We had two British Stan's in storage, but with such holes in their barrels that there could be no question of firing from them. request
      1. +2
        7 October 2019 21: 19
        ... how they behave when firing a side-mounted magazine

        hi Hi KoTstantin smile ... And you try any other PP sideways and turn a couple of stores on purpose ... drinks
        1. +2
          7 October 2019 21: 21
          No, the "brothers from the ghetto" are engaged in this "coolness", but we, as white people, do it the old fashioned way. wink
          1. +2
            7 October 2019 21: 22
            laughing ... And that's right.
  5. +4
    7 October 2019 09: 09
    Quote: Leopold
    Strangeness in the article. If the MP-18 is considered, then this is a submachine gun under a pistol cartridge. Here rather Degtyarev, Shpagin and Sudaev. And if Kalashnikov was mentioned, then this is an intermediate cartridge and Sturmgever. Some kind of dissonance in the article


    Dear readers! The original text and title of my article was changed by the VO editor without my consent and posted here, so there is a dissonance!
    In this regard, I will not post the second, part, as there will be even more dissonance.
    Take it for granted.
    1. +3
      7 October 2019 11: 29
      And why does the editor actually interfere with the text? If he is such a smart and right guy, can he write something for himself and send readers to court?
    2. +6
      7 October 2019 19: 22
      Andrey, tremendous gratitude to you for the article! I swallowed with pleasure and with pleasure. good
      Listen, or maybe you will spit on clearly whom and yet, lay out the second part for us sinners. I perfectly understand your feelings, it was like that when people who think too much about themselves (I can’t write the right word) spoiled the work already done, but ... We, the people waiting for your articles are absolutely not to blame. Maybe after all ... Huh? drinks
  6. +6
    7 October 2019 09: 47
    One gets the impression that the article was written by two different people in turn, moreover, one was a qualified professional, the other was an ordinary agitator. It turned out some kind of nonsense. If this is a volt of site authors, then it is highly doubtful.
    1. +9
      7 October 2019 14: 42
      The text practically did not suffer, so what is from the agitator is also from me. But without that, alas. The main thing is the title itself - patents and MP-18 at once. What does the MP-18 have to do with the title, I had Part I there, immediately implying that there would be a second. This MP-18 immediately puts emphasis on it. But "Part I" is not allowed.
      Okay, you could think of something, but the subtitle "Construction MP-18" with the text does not hit at all. Moreover, there is a central thought - the refutation of the myth about this sample as a weapon developed specifically for assault groups. Further, the same nonsense. And at the very end, the intrigue for the second part was removed, where the reader was asked to guess what kind of moonshine still Schmeisser demonstrates at the KDPV. And the second part began with the development of this intrigue with a smooth transition to another one that I dug up. That's how "grunt" and broken what he intended. Just like in Soviet times.
      1. +3
        7 October 2019 16: 43
        There is an overabundance of propagandists - holivarschikov without you, but you will not find qualified authors in the afternoon with a lantern.
        Leave the fight with the "schmeisserophiles", just write about the weapon.
        Regarding your question, if you mean the first photo, I would suggest that this is an attempt to adapt a steam evaporative cooling system to the MG08 / 15.
    2. +2
      7 October 2019 21: 48
      ... One gets the impression that the article was written by two different people in turn, moreover, one was a qualified professional, and the second was an ordinary agitator.

      No. ... Not ... that's how it was:

      Sorry feel (joke)
  7. +1
    7 October 2019 14: 16
    Let's shift the focus a bit. Let us ask ourselves: from whom did Schmeisser borrow? The reloading system he used in STG-44 using the energy of powder gases is uncharacteristic of a German arms school. But it has similarities with the principles used in the design of CBT: the upper arrangement of the gas piston, gas regulator, locking the shutter by skew.
    1. +2
      7 October 2019 19: 13
      You forgot the trigger from the Czechoslovak automatic rifle ZH-29. But, nevertheless, the Stg-44 (Mkb-42H, MP-43/1) of the Schmeiser design was the first.
      1. +2
        8 October 2019 01: 17
        Quote: Sea Cat
        But, nevertheless, the Stg-44 (Mkb-42H, MP-43/1) of the Schmeiser design was the first.

        What is the first ... automatic machine for an intermediate cartridge?
        1. -1
          8 October 2019 03: 03
          What is the first ...?

          An automatic machine, or an assault rifle, or the inventor of this design under an intermediate cartridge. And there and there he was the First. hi
          1. +2
            8 October 2019 14: 48
            The first assault rifle or STG-44 assault rifle can never be. The automatic machine was called an automatic rifle Fedorov arr. 1916. The first weapon under an intermediate (or close in characteristics to an intermediate) cartridge can be considered automatic carbines of Winchester arr. 1917 and Ribeirol arr. 1918
            What remains to poor fellow Hugo? .... Laurels of the creator of the first weapons put into service under the intermediate pvtron. hi
            1. -2
              8 October 2019 18: 27
              The Fedorov assault rifle was certainly the first swallow, but where did you find the intermediate cartridge there? Automatic carbines that you remembered never and never been adopted
              or close in characteristics to the intermediate
              , and their cartridges have nothing to do with intermediate ones. Do not, a colleague, pull an owl on the globe, because with these stretches you can also attribute the beautiful American M1 carbine to assault rifles, because its cartridge is very [b] close in characteristics to the intermediate [b].
              And Hugo, as I understand it, is far from a poor fellow.
              Of course, you can take it as you please, but this is just your opinion, and it’s not really confirmed by anything.
              Indeed, in disputes such arguments as "OR CLOSE IN CHARACTERISTICS" no one will take seriously.
              Regards M.Kot. hi
              1. +1
                8 October 2019 22: 36
                Quote: Sea Cat
                The Fedorov assault rifle was certainly the first swallow, but where did you find the intermediate cartridge there?

                In the past comments you wrote:
                Quote: Sea Cat
                An automatic machine, or an assault rifle, or the inventor of this design under an intermediate cartridge. And there and there he was the First.

                Those. You claim that in the machine gun or assault rifle, and in the invention of the design for the intermediate cartridge Hugo Schmeisser was the first.
                With a machine gun or an assault rifle ("Assault rifle" in English and "Sturmgewehr" in German), you are wrong .... where 1916 and where 1042.
                Now let's deal with the "intermediate" cartridge. What is an "intermediate" cartridge?
                type of cartridge for firearms, intermediate in power between pistol and rifle cartridges.

                Those. more powerful than pistol, but weaker than rifle.
                This is where the widest field for boltology opens. We got to the point where they write about the .30 Carbine cartridge (7,62 × 33 mm) for the M1 carbine
                It is inferior in power to intermediate cartridges, but superior to pistol cartridges, ...

                Although, if you just think: more powerful than a pistol - it means an intermediate. This is where the legs of the phrase grow:
                or close in characteristics to the intermediate

                By the way. The M1 carbine, even with a stretch, cannot be classified as an assault rifle, since, after WWI, the term "assault rifle" refers to automatic rifles, but not to self-loading ones, to which the M1 belongs.
                In general, I will not bore you further, just repeat the phrase, the second part of which you prefer not to notice.
                What remains to poor fellow Hugo? .... Laurels of the creator of the first weapons put into service under an intermediate cartridge.
                1. 0
                  9 October 2019 21: 24
                  Good evening, Sergey hi
                  Fedorov’s weapons are called automatic weapons only in one country - in Russia, so let him stay with Fedorov.
                  And the first assault rifle under the intermediate - for Schmeiser.
                  By the way, Fedorov had an automatic rifle at the same time, but no one called it "assault".
                  You write:
                  appeared after WWI, the term "assault rifle" refers to automatic rifles, but not to self-loading,
                  Then the question is: in which country and to which weapon was the term "assault rifle" applied between the two world wars?
                  As for the American M1, it was indeed self-loading, but it was its second modification, the M2, with a translator for automatic fire. In the eighties, he had the pleasure of shooting a couple of magazines out of it and was amazed at the goodness and accuracy of the fight of this carbine, and this in spite of the unnaturally light weight. And the machine was not new, from the Vietnamese "trophies".
                  1. +1
                    10 October 2019 14: 14
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    Fedorov’s weapons are called automatic weapons only in one country - in Russia, so let him stay with Fedorov.

                    The Fedorov assault rifle was created in Russia and has the right to its own name. Your favorite shturgever was generally called at first a machine-gunner, then a machine gun, and only at the end received a name from English.
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    By the way, Fedorov had an automatic rifle at the same time, but no one called it "assault".

                    Fedorov rifle and is an automatic rifle. It was created on the basis of Fedorov's self-loading rifle. The possibility of automatic fire was introduced, and the capacity of the store was increased. M2 subsequently followed exactly the same path.
                    1. 0
                      10 October 2019 21: 31
                      Your favorite shturgever was generally called at first a machine-gunner, then a machine gun, and only at the end received a name from English.


                      That is what I wrote about at the very beginning of our discussion. if you read carefully.


                      Catfish
                      Online
                      Sea Cat (Constantine) 4 October 7, 2019 19:13
                      +2
                      You forgot the trigger from the Czechoslovak automatic rifle ZH-29. But, nevertheless, the Stg-44 (Mkb-42H, MP-43/1) of the Schmeiser design was the first.


                      The Fedorov rifle was originally called Automatic and never self-loading. The fact that an automatic machine was created on its basis is known to everyone who is even a little interested in weapons.
                      I wonder why you decided that the "stormgower" is my favorite weapon? I have eternal and faithful love for the AKMS, with whom I served three years in the SA and I am not going to cheat on her.

                      PS Once again, some hamster climbed with minuses, here rodents got divorced ... laughing
                      1. 0
                        11 October 2019 04: 36
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        The Fedorov rifle was originally called Automatic and never self-loading. The fact that an automatic machine was created on its basis is known to everyone who is even a little interested in weapons.

                        Maybe you need to be interested a little more than "at least a little" in order to know that at the beginning of the past there was no division of automatic weapons into continuous and single fire weapons, and closer to WWII there was a division into automatic (continuous fire) and self-loading (single fire ). Since you've been running for three years with AKMS, you probably remember the engraving on the side of the receiver: "AB" and "OD".
                        So, in order not to get confused, let's use modern terminology: the Fedorov rifle was originally self-loading.
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        I wonder why you decided that the "stormgower" is my favorite weapon?

                        Well, you are so zealously defending the birthright of STG-44
                      2. -2
                        11 October 2019 09: 46
                        Sergei, I was interested in weapons a little more than "at least a little" at least by occupation, working in the weapons department of the State Historical Museum. Well, this is so, by the way.
                        With regard to the term "automatic", everything is completely true, even self-loading pistols at the beginning of the century were called automatic. But I was referring to Fedorov's two weapon systems and how they were THEN called. I believe that you have already understood everything, but for some reason you twist.
                        And your sarcasm is completely vain about the engravings "AB" and "OD", I not only remember, but also know how to use, which sometimes helped both in service and after it.
                        Regarding "I ran for three years": they run not with AKMS, but with AKM in the infantry, and I had the pleasure of serving in the tank.
                        As for the "birthright", there is nothing to defend, take any reference book published in any country - there in black and white.
                        Did you try, by the way, to shoot from the STG? I happened, and even in comparison with Kalashnikov. And for accuracy, the comparison, unfortunately, is not in favor of our typewriter.
                        But I am not in defense of the "Sturmgever".
                      3. +1
                        11 October 2019 14: 35
                        I repeat once again.
                        Schmeisser is the creator of the first put into service weapons under the intermediate cartridge.
                        You persistently repeat that Hugo was the first in everything, including the creation of a rifle capable of continuous fire.
                      4. 0
                        11 October 2019 15: 00
                        You persistently repeat that Hugo was the first in everything, including the creation of a rifle capable of continuous fire.

                        And where did you find this statement? If I also spoke about Fedorov and his family of weapons. Why invent something that was not in sight.
                        Schmeisser is the creator of the first weapons put into service under an intermediate cartridge.

                        This is exactly what I had in mind when I spoke about his primacy, and nothing else.
                      5. +1
                        12 October 2019 01: 12
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        An automatic machine, or an assault rifle, or the inventor of this design under an intermediate cartridge. And there and there he was the First.

                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        And the first assault rifle under the intermediate - for Schmeiser.

                        Here are your statements, what to look for. And they lack the phrase - "first put into service". So, a meaningless phrase, you sort of" mean "it, but without this phrase, the gunsmiths who developed automatic rifles and intermediate cartridges are immediately pushed aside.
                      6. 0
                        12 October 2019 18: 16
                        Well, you have already hit casuistry and, as I understand it, it is very important for you that you have the last word. For God's sake - write, all the best. love
                      7. 0
                        12 October 2019 22: 38
                        Well, you have been involved in casuistry from the very beginning of the argument, especially regarding
          2. 0
            11 October 2019 12: 04
            Sorry, but even if you go into debates about whether Fedorov’s design is an automaton, at least Vollmer M 35 and ZK 412 existed under Sturmak under the intermediate cartridge. The first was in small batch, the second reached the test stage, that is existed in iron, and not in a single copy, but in the pistol grip of the fire control there was nothing new at that time either.
  8. 0
    7 October 2019 19: 54
    the location of the store, reducing the profile of the shooter when firing from a trench

    but just from the trench this is irrelevant, but when you dash forward, if you need to shoot lying without cover, it is more than relevant.
    So for the offensive, this is more important than for defense.
    and as for
    From the point of view of genius, nothing is observed so as not to bypass this patent with little blood.

    then in the English-language literature all PPs with a free gate - and almost all PPs of the Second World War were like that - are often called the "Schmeiser system"
  9. +5
    7 October 2019 21: 50
    Here I look again. Schmeisser is behind MG-08/15 and the heading "Construction MP-18"! Well, how can that be ?!
    1. +4
      7 October 2019 21: 58
      Come on stop ... don't take it so close ... Yes
      ... Thank you for the article.
      1. +1
        8 October 2019 18: 35
        No, Sash, I understand Andrei. Well, imagine a sculptor: a man was tormented, created his own unique creation. Everyone liked the sculpture and put it on a pedestal in the city center. In the morning, the creator got up neither light nor dawn and went there to take another look at his masterpiece, and then ... some (I can’t find the right word) hammered the nose with a hammer. Well, what would you say about such villainy?
        1. +2
          9 October 2019 23: 16
          ... We must "beat the ruble"! .... ..... laughing
          ... hi Hi Kuzmich.
          1. +1
            9 October 2019 23: 32
            Hi Sasha! So it certainly will be more true. laughing
  10. 0
    12 October 2019 22: 26
    Where is that Schmeiser? In the museum, but in private collections! Kalash is still fighting and is still being made, but the copy can’t be better than the original by default. And for some reason you can’t see a machine that can surpass it. All this is ju-ju-ju especially from the west, there are attempts to profit from the legendary device.
  11. 0
    9 January 2020 15: 46
    I tried to post the full version on two sites, but apparently they had a guarantee. They are silent like fish on ice. So hold on.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/12G6AaRm53Ko6mRdVJnTSUBvQJrBtFzjE/view?usp=sharing
  12. 0
    17 July 2020 09: 50
    And I consider Sudaev a genius! In terms of simplicity and reliability in the elegance of solutions, it has no equal. Definitely a Kalash was made under the impression of a storm trooper.
    But he is better than a hever. and it's very cool. All leavened debate is idiocy. Ie the bicycle was not invented by Kalashnikov .. but he made the best bicycle.
  13. 0
    28 October 2023 01: 50
    At the final decision of the commission on the results of the 1946 tests in the USSR, all machine guns were documented as unsuitable. (Including the AK-46, which in documents of that time was described as the AK-1 of three modifications). The reason given was that they were made using old technology - with a milled receiver. This did not make it possible to withstand the forced thermal regime from the use of a more powerful than pistol cartridge, the so-called intermediate cartridge - 7,62x41mm model 1943. It is for this reason that the cartridge was reduced by 2 mm in the course of further research. In addition, an economic factor was noted - the army needed cheaper weapons made with the widespread use of stamp-welded or stamp-riveted structures. This is the fundamental difference between the developments of the USSR and the German ones, in which this issue was resolved, both from the point of view of design and from the point of view of technology. German inventors and weapon designers who solved this problem by creating a mass model of weapons were forcibly assembled in 1945 in Izhevsk. The most famous names are Schmeisser (StG-44), Vollmer (MP38/40), technologists Gruner and Horn, - MG42). And about fifty more engineers. And many of them are with their families. If in fact there are people who think that this was done JUST SO, then there is no point in discussing with such people even the fact that the water is wet.

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