In the USA, they named the winner in a hypothetical clash between Su-35 and Su-57

Su-35 is the most effective fighter ever created by Moscow. Although the aircraft is primarily designed to gain superiority in the air, it is able to prove itself as a powerful means of hitting ground targets. This opinion was expressed by the National Interest publication.

According to him, although outwardly this machine resembles a Su-27, it is a completely new product, like the modern Boeing F / A-18E / F Block II or Block III, created on the basis of the McDonnell Douglas F / A-18A Hornet.

The Su-35 turned out to be so effective that many in Russian military circles are wondering if the Su-57 following it is worth the time and money spent on it.

- writes the designated edition.

These moods are fueled by the absence (at least for the moment) of the power plant adequate for the Su-57, the so-called “second stage engine”. Without it, the new model cannot demonstrate a noticeable increase in combat capabilities. Against this background, the limited order of the Ministry of Defense for the supply of Su-57 becomes clear.

It is unlikely that the Russians will make the basis of their Air Force out of PAK FA. It is much more likely that Moscow will continue to modernize its Su-30СМ and Su-35С fleet, equipping these aircraft with avionics taken from the Su-57

- NI believes, indicating that "the modernization of fourth-generation aircraft is much easier than replenishing the fleet with the latest systems, so Russia should rely on them, forgetting about the Su-57."

According to the American magazine, which gives a certain provocation, the Su-35 has more chances to win in the event of a hypothetical confrontation with the Su-57.

At the same time, it was added that the American experience of upgrading to the F / A-18E / F Block III version showed that new equipment is able to turn old aircraft into a worthy competitor for the latest products.

Comments

[Something]

The stupidity and yet again the stupidity of this National Interest topic with a big eye ... The road to nowhere!

[Alexander Suvorov]

The stupidity and yet again the stupidity of this National Interest topic with a big eye ... The road to nowhere!

And when and where did you see the National Interest write something smart? There is no "specialist" then Dave Majumdar ... To expect serious analytics from such specialists is the same as to expect the second arrival of the mission.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Something

The stupidity and yet again the stupidity of this National Interest topic with a big eye ... The road to nowhere!

The best attack is "disinformation"! As old as the world.

[cormorant]

They also aspirated about 5 years ago about the Su-35. They are simply afraid to think that the Russians have something much better. Denial of reality, this is such a protective mechanism of the psyche

[Sky strike fighter]

The Su-35 turned out to be so effective that many in Russian military circles are wondering if the Su-57 following it is worth the time and money spent on it.

- writes the designated edition.

The Su-57 turned out to be so dangerous for the Americans that they decided to pursue their interests through such articles so that Russia abandoned the Su-57 and their F-35 would not have a competitor in the battle. That the Americans do not write about their effectiveness the latest version of the F-15 and in this regard about the unwillingness to buy F-35. See no fools sitting there. Refusing the Su-57 or lobbying for this refusal is equivalent to the betrayal of Russia. China is betting on the J-20.

[sir.jonn]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The Su-57 turned out to be so dangerous for the Americans that they decided to pursue their interests through such articles in order for Russia to abandon the Su-57

These articles may affect the opinion of the average person, but for the Moscow Region they do not matter. Unless they give a topic for non-worthy media about senseless spending in the Moscow Region, but most Russians are immune to such articles.

[Incvizitor]

If pi.sov f 35 is mediocrity, which is expensive and almost completely inferior to the 4th generation, does not mean that all of the 5th generation is so miserable.

[Amateur]

According to the American magazine, which gives a certain provocation, the Su-35 has more chances to win in the event of a hypothetical confrontation with the Su-57.

American magazines have better predictions: Donald T Nancy P & Hillary K or are they his.

[Petrograd]

Quote: Amateur

American magazines are better off doing predictions: Donald T. Nancy P & Hillary K. or they are his.

"The rumor was struck," as they say, the phrase at the beginning:

Su-35 is the most effective fighter ever created by Moscow

[tomket]

Quote: Petrograd

"The rumor was struck," as they say, the phrase at the beginning:

Like "Washington has released a new iPhone."

[Petrograd]

Alexander, I hope you understand the meaning. It was not Moscow that created it, but the Russian Federation or Russia, or more precisely, the Sukhoi Design Bureau. About the iPhone from Washington, until .. laughed ..

[Rurikovich]

Well, as long as the Constitution of Russia gives priority to the supremacy of international law over domestic law, speeches and advice will always be heard from the West about what is better for Russia

[Tusv]

Quote: Rurikovich

Well, for now, the Russian Constitution will prioritize the supremacy of international law over domestic,

It seems to have been ten years already, as they said, What the Constitutional Court of Russia decides, where international law dominates and where not. Nothing in vain Faberge Le Bourget does not fly

[Herman 4223]

Want to say that this is not so? The decision of the international court will prevail over the decision of our supreme court. Only if it does not contradict our constitution. And he will vryatli contradict. International NORMS is part of our legal system.

[Tusv]

Quote: Herman 4223

The decision of the international court will prevail over the decision of our supreme court.

I am not a lawyer, but IMHO Hodor is dreaming of a forgotten camera. I don’t know how his mom feels, but Hodor is a criminal who has come out on probation. How is it interpreted in Europe? Yes to the pub .. Let them try to reflect Our argument

[bk316]

The decision of the international court will prevail over the decision of our supreme court.

Are you a lawyer? It seems not, otherwise the Constitution and the Supreme Court would not have been written with a small letter.
I explain. All laws and decisions of the courts of the Russian Federation must comply with the Constitution of the Russian Federation and until the Constitutional Court of the Russian Federation or another court of higher jurisdiction has decided otherwise (and for the Armed Forces it is only the Constitutional Court or the plenum of the Armed Forces), it is considered that they comply with it. Decisions of international courts may naturally not comply with the Constitution of the Russian Federation.
THEREFORE, if the decisions of these courts contradict the decisions of our courts, then our decisions are in effect, or rather, in the event of a contradiction, our court of next instance simply makes a decision in favor of our court with the wording I wrote to you. Again, the plaintiff may appeal this decision in the Constitutional Court of the Russian Federation, referring to the decision of the international court. Only the Constitutional Court of the Russian Federation will decide in favor of ours.
This is how completely legal and civilized international law was sent ....

[Herman 4223]

Bravo, I wrote the same thing to you only in brief. Only a court can make a decision that does not contradict the constitution, and then the decision of the international court will have supremacy over our court.

[Cat man null]

Quote: bk316

completely legal and civilized international law was sent ...

Quote: Herman 4223

and then the decision of the international court will have supremacy over our court

Md

[asr55]

Yes, not so. What is the connection between the decisions of the international court and our constitution!? All decisions of the international court are politicized and in many cases are not fair. And how many of them were, for example, in Ukraine or the United States, that they were implemented? International courts are a demonstration of the policies that are pursued in the region. For example, can an international court annul the decisions of our court !? No, he can not.

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

Quote: Rurikovich

Well, for now, the Russian Constitution will prioritize the supremacy of international law over domestic,

There is no international law. There are agreements on the recognition of cross-border jurisdiction of organizations by the parties. Russia joined the ECHR - thereby recognizing the right to apply the laws of Western Europe, or even just Dutch, on the territory of Russia. The USA does not recognize the ECHR - and all the Europeans 'claims for the murders of relatives, the Americans' imprisonment without charge - go through the woods, the ECHR does not even accept such cases for consideration. The legitimacy of the Stockholm Arbitration was recognized - and please, you can make claims against it in Russian companies according to the Swedish law. And not for non-existent international.

[Tusv]

Not well. This Eksperd was not at the MAX. I speak the truth. Even with the engine of the first stage, the SU-57 makes the Su-35. A little bit, but it does. It's like in that joke. A man needs a woman with such characteristics, but the main thing is that they do not meet
Pray that yours will not meet neither Su-Xnumx nor Su-Xnumx

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Tusv

Pray that yours will not meet neither Su-Xnumx nor Su-Xnumx

But the new engine needs to be brought to mind faster.

[Tusv]

Quote: tihonmarine

But the new engine needs to be brought to mind faster.

And then in a hurry. The corpse of the enemy ... This is only the fourth among the Chinese. In the meantime, try to fight these birds, when the false target behaves like the main one or vice versa. Before the Pts, everything can be landed. EW is not EW - predictably.
I am afraid with such a composition of flyers Our Semi-Military will blow in the next games on "control targets"

[rotmistr60]

As usual, National Interest. knows everything, including and plans of our ministry of defense. Obviously, the Americans do not want Russia to build new airplanes and equip their own aerospace forces.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: rotmistr60

As usual, National Interest. knows everything, including and plans of our ministry of defense. Obviously, the Americans do not want Russia to build new airplanes and equip their own aerospace forces.

And our government is actively helping them in this. Back in the days when Rogozin was in charge of defense issues, he said that - "We have a lot of developments in the field of new weapons, but the problem is that we have a sorely lack of specialists and workers to implement them."
Meanwhile, not more than a month ago, it was announced that in a couple of years in Russia they would stop teaching in some specialties such as a turner, milling machine operator, etc. Gref says that we need to tie up with mathematics and in general we don’t need so many engineers. With this approach, in 15-20 years, there really will be no one to do with us, not just planes, but scooters.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Nyrobsky

Gref says that we need to tie up with mathematics and in general we do not need so many engineers. With this approach, over the years through 15 -20, there really will be no one to do not only planes, but scooters.

It looks like they are sitting among our officials, as if to put it mildly, "not our people."

[usr01]

Let them make predictions - what will happen to theirs (F18 ... F35) if they meet the Su-35, and even more so the "doped" Su-57.
(on condition that not a Hindu, a Turk, an Arab ... are at the helm)

[Tusv]

Quote: usr01

Let them make predictions - what will happen to theirs (F18 ... F35) if they meet the Su-35, and even more so the "doped" Su-57.

Everything is simple here. They think that they attack first, so they will win. And what will happen to the lyapasatics if you dodge? Correctly. Beating a baby. Testers say that avoiding a missile attack, both birds can independently, on the machine.
The bell and cobra can be done by many. But a long Cobra with hovering and stalling into a flat corkscrew can only be one.

[asr55]

But the Hindus need to be given their due, f-30s, f-16s, eurofighters and so on are being beaten by the su-15mki. in training battles to dry. https://svpressa.ru/post/article/104405/

[kapitan281271]

I am not a professional, but a man who loves aviation, and I have this question for people directly related to aviation. Do we repeat the pre-error when huge resources were spent on deep modernization and production of obsolete machines, instead of focusing on the production of new ones? samples.

[mark1]

Quote: kapitan281271

when huge resources were spent on deep modernization and production of obsolete machines, instead of focusing on the production of new designs.

But was it like that? As soon as enti new samples appeared, they immediately concentrated. So do not repeat.

[Herman 4223]

The industry cannot be simultaneously converted to new products, which is why production of some old equipment is parallel with the launch of new ones. And that technique was not completely outdated. I16 Monsieu fought until the end of the war.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: kapitan281271

Are we repeating a pre-war mistake

I don’t understand what the mistake was before the war. The same KV and T-34 tanks are very new, and the MIG and LAGG planes are also not quite old, and the artillery also had many new systems, especially large caliber ones, and the famous Katyusha was released in the first months of the war. Small arms PPSh, PPD, SVT SVS were also not inferior to the German ones, or even higher. Well, what was the modernization?

[kapitan281271]

I meant that despite the fact that there were already new aircraft, and the industry still produced I-153, I-15bis, I-16, maybe this was a mistake, because the command was confident that the performance characteristics of these machines were sufficient, and it turned out to be completely absent, with the exception of the latest modifications of the I-16, and then not for long. I do not affirm the second, I doubt and are interested in knowledgeable people.
The development of new models, and the work on deep modernization of the I-15 were carried out almost in parallel. So I ask if the Su-35 is useless in a fight with the f-22 in a real collision, or is its performance characteristics enough to successfully deal with this aircraft, and if not, then maybe it’s not worth spending resources on the Su-35, but focus on the Su-57 XNUMX, and it’s just hard for an amateur to understand this question and ask the professionals.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: kapitan281271

The development of new models, and the work on deep modernization of the I-15 were carried out almost in parallel. So I ask if the Su-35 is useless in a fight with f-22 in a real collision, or is its performance characteristics sufficient to successfully deal with this aircraft, and if not, then maybe it is not worth spending resources on the Su-35, but focus on Su- Xnumx

It is impossible to immediately switch to a new model, because the factories need to be adjusted to it, the time, resources, etc., so two models go further on to the Su-57. For example, before the war, the production of the T-34 tank began, but in many respects it was weak. After weighing everything, they made adjustments and received the T-34M model, but they could not launch the series, and riveted the T-34-76, at the end of the war, the T-34-85. The T34-M model came out at the end of the war under the name T-44 and, if I am not mistaken, did not take part in the battles. If the production of the T-34 had been stopped, the country would have been left without tanks, but the T-34 was being modernized throughout the war. Your fears are correct, but everything depends on the industry, on its ability to quickly master the new model. Well, something like this, I'm sorry I wrote a lot.

[Grigory_78]

A great example, though not from aviation - the T-34, with all its advantages, at the beginning of the war was an extremely fragile tank that few could repair, and the losses of the T-34 were often non-combat. Even in 1943, near the Kursk 300 km march could not withstand almost a third of the T-34, breaking down the road. True, the same T-28 was so inferior to the T-34 in almost all respects that the T-34 could forgive a lot.
But in this case, the Su-35S is not particularly inferior to the Su-57.
So a reliable "old" is better than a new one that is not really tested.
At the same time, as far as I remember, the "old" Su-35S was adopted only last year ...

[Zaurbek]

Until they establish the serial production of Su57 (which is 50% of the problems when creating any product), the Su30 / 35 needs to be riveted and riveted. Now the MiG31 will also begin to leave the service and the Su27 .., Su24 .. and all this needs to be replaced with a single (or highly unified) aircraft. . Somewhere in the north, stealth is not needed, but a powerful AFAR and long-range missiles are needed.

[sgrabik]

The MiG-31BM has another ten years ahead, it is a unique high-altitude interceptor and there is nothing of the kind in NATO, and by 2030 the MiG-41 should replace it, which Mikoyan’s design bureau is already actively working on.

[Zaurbek]

He (MiG31) NATO is not needed. Therefore, no. And nothing is heard about a promising turbojet engine for such an interceptor ... and how many Mig31 are left? And everything has its own resource. And on the Su35S is the most powerful radar station in the Russian Federation today. And the most powerful "brains". Su57 is even more powerful ...

[eagle owl]

Was the USA on the highway and sucked Su-shku. What else can you say? What difference does it make to you which of them will defeat whom - Your patriots will turn any of them into mincemeat

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

If the satellite does not break.
The Patriot’s locator detects the target, and via satellite sends it to the CC in California or Germany, it is processed there, information with target designation is returned via satellite to the control room. Ingenious! While you have a couple of goals per day ...

[pafegosoff]

In the United States scolding the Su-57?
So - they are afraid!

[sgrabik]

They are not afraid, but fear.

[Herman 4223]

If the enemy praises, then it's probably time to do something new.

[Elephant]

I am also annoyed by the lack of new engines for the 57th. Under Stalin, someone would have answered in full for such sabotage and would have worked on weekends and holidays in 4 shifts!

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Elephant

Under Stalin, someone would have answered in full for such sabotage and would have worked on weekends and holidays in the 4 shift!

And if the object was not handed over on time, then they worked in a "sharashka", and immediately all problems were resolved.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

And don’t be annoyed :)
In the USSR, they made the 5-generation engine AL41F for Mig1.44. But they rejected Mig, decided to make PAK FA, and for him this engine was too large.
The result was the following - for good, it was necessary for Su to create a new engine, however, since it was at the beginning of the 2000's that his development threatened to drag out - there was no money for the army then. So they made a decision on the one hand to make slowly a full-fledged dvigun, and on the other, to create an 1 stage engine combining the old Al31 with the technologies of the Migovsky Al41F. Moreover, the engine of the first stage is very good, from Al31 there is approximately 20%, and why everyone is so bad about it - it is decidedly impossible to understand

[Herman 4223]

It was immediately necessary to start developing it. Together with the plane. And not when he began the first flights. Now we don’t need to rush, we do not need a quick blunder.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Question to the government about the allocation of funds. And in my opinion, the development of the 2 stage engine began much earlier than the first flights

[Herman 4223]

In the twelfth year, a scientific council was held to study design decisions. This is the year of development. Su 57 already flew.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Herman 4223

In the twelfth year, a scientific council was held to study design decisions. This is the year of development.

I doubt it. Can you confirm your words that the engine began to be developed in 2012 by reference?

[Herman 4223]

If before that, it was only in the form of a declaration of intent.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

That's not sure. It is written:

At the end of 2012, an expanded scientific and technical council was held, in which all the research institutes of the industry, the Russian Ministry of Defense and the main customer, Sukhoi Design Bureau, participated. It considered the design solutions for the main components of the engine "Product 30", proposed by "Design Bureau named. A.Lulki »

So, there is a strong feeling that these very constructive solutions were developed long before the 2012 r - otherwise you have to admit that the pace of creation of this engine (in the 2017 r was already tested on one of the T-50 instances) is amazing.
That is, in my IMHO, the development of the 30 product began much earlier than 2012, but I can not strictly prove it

[Herman 4223]

Designers may have thought about something, but in essence, development was not carried out. The development speed is really amazing, but for me it is better to think over such things in advance.

[rocket757]

In any case, the costs are not in vain. Let there be an intermediate result, a product ... at the moment, no one has shown much, better, proved.
All the developments will go into action, in the next model!
This is a normal evolution of military equipment .... simpler faster than before.
It happened that new items had time to become obsolete already at the time of release. Science, technology do not stand still.

[sgrabik]

In this case, you don’t need any races, you need to produce airplanes in stages, in small series, make changes with each new series, improving and modernizing certain components and systems, approximately the same as it was in the USA with the release of F-22, the rush here is absolutely inappropriate, the new sophisticated equipment is perfected for years, then it turns out to be the most reliable and efficient.

[rocket757]

A good thesis was accepted and ...- We did not have a war tomorrow! -
At least for us, it’s important to keep vigorous forces on a platoon .... no one will even rock the boat! And for everything else, calm, systematic work for, indeed, the best result!

[axiles100682]

There will be a panic among the Yankers if the second-stage engine on the SU-57 will work on other physical principles than all now available. The SU-57 with some kind of photon engine, eh? It's a pity that this is just my imagination.
Or maybe all the same ............?

[awg75]

believe in mattresses, do not respect yourself)))

[Elephant]

This phenomenon is inherent in everyone without exception, the indisputable thing is the facts. But the amount of scientific development and financing, in general, is too high among the Merikos.

[Tavi]

I do not believe (c) Stanislavsky

[Invoce]

“It is unlikely that the Russians will make the basis of their Air Force out of PAK FA. It is much more likely that Moscow will continue to modernize its Su-30SM and Su-35S fleet, equipping these aircraft with avionics taken from the Su-57

- says NI, pointing out that "modernization of fourth generation aircraft is much easier than replenishing the fleet with the latest systems, therefore, them Russia and should betforgetting about the Su-57 ".

Wow !!! Those. Russia is given advice or guidance on what to do and which aircraft to promote to protect the Russian state! I do not know what to say!!!

[sgrabik]

This phantom habit in the United States has remained since the 90s, when the Yeltsin liberal gang obediently fulfilled all the whims of the Americans on their first click.

[Igor Borisov_2]

At the same time, it was added that the American experience of upgrading to the F / A-18E / F Block III version showed that new equipment can turn old aircraft into a worthy competitor for the latest products

Why was the F-35 needed then? Only for cutting money?

[Kettle]

It is unclear why involvement in the 5th generation of Su-57 fighters is so strongly associated in the press with the new engine. The increase in such excellent energy characteristics - yes, but what does the 5th generation have to do with it?
It’s not about engines at all. The fifth generation is about stealth in the broad sense, including, in particular, directly radar, i.e. stealth.
Over-maneuverability, or rather, significantly improved maneuverability, was one of the signs of the 4th generation, with the advent of multi-angle missiles, helmet-mounted target designation systems, is not so relevant.
Cruising supersonic is also not entirely clear how it dramatically affects the effectiveness of a fighter in order to transfer it to the next generation. Cruising supersonic was still in the vertical twin-barrel “Lightning” of the 50s. Oddly enough, modern 4th-generation fighters also have it. Su-35, Rafal, Typhoon, the latest modifications of the Gripen - everyone has cruising supersonic speed. The Chinese don't seem to bother with the J-20 at all.
Still, the new generation is something really new in the ideology of the design of the aircraft and its use, so that, conditionally, one fighter of the new generation could withstand pieces 3-5 of the previous one.

[Herman 4223]

Air combat missiles overcome a significant part of the path in energy; they cannot actively maneuver during such a flight. A maneuvering aircraft has a chance to evade, in addition it is a close air combat and a short take-off. Cruising supersonic allows you to quickly go to the interception area.

[Romanenko]

We ourselves will somehow figure out what to fly without "well-wishers"

[datur]

f-35 is all of them !!!! not even f-22 !!

[Grigory_78]

Quote: tihonmarine

It looks like they are sitting among our officials, as if to put it mildly, "not our people."

Kudrin and Gref - as much as possible - "not our people." For example, thanks to Gref, Sberbank frantically tried to stay in Ukraine to the last. And for this I never came to Crimea.
In general, Kudrin, and especially Gref, has so many sins that you are tormented to list.

[Grigory_78]

Quote: axiles100682

There will be a panic among the Yankers if the second-stage engine on the SU-57 will work on other physical principles than all now available. The SU-57 with some kind of photon engine, eh? It's a pity that this is just my imagination.
Or maybe all the same ............?

Of course not. But ... As I understand our developers, the second stage engine on supersonic will consume not much more fuel than in subsonic mode. And the supersonic flight range will be almost the same, that’s the point.
At least they said that in an F-22 engine, supersonic sound is not an emergency (afterburner) mode, but at the same time it eats fuel three times more than when it is used up. What is called - feel the difference.
So the engine of the second stage should raise the Su-57 to a height not reachable in the near future for competitors.

[Sapsan136]

Engines of the second stage are already there and the latter, it seems 3 planes, out of 12 already ordered by the Russian Ministry of Defense Su-57, will be with them

[Lesorub]

In the USA, they named the winner in a hypothetical clash between Su-35 and Su-57

Americans are fans of "Fantasies", If we compare the hypothetical rivals of the Su 35 with the F 15 and the same F 22, it is more logical!

[Mylenef]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

The stupidity and yet again the stupidity of this National Interest topic with a big eye ... The road to nowhere!

And when and where did you see the National Interest write something smart? There is no "specialist" then Dave Majumdar ... To expect serious analytics from such specialists is the same as to expect the second arrival of the mission.

There will be no second parish, because he does not want to hang on the cross again